1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,800 I think we need to be aware of what's happening so that we can better understand, first of 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,200 all, the world, then maybe your kids. 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:11,200 Stay relevant. 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:17,000 Hit the nerve, Mark, I hear you. 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,120 So yeah, like walk fishing is one that you introduce to me. 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:22,480 Wait, wait, wait, what is it? 7 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:23,480 Walk fishing. 8 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:24,480 Walk fishing. 9 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,760 Relative to, I won't say sex and stuff, but relationships. 10 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,600 People will call themselves woke. 11 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:31,600 You know woke. 12 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:32,600 Actually. 13 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:33,600 Like being woke. 14 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:34,600 No, have I? 15 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:35,600 Bless your heart. 16 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:36,600 I'm really old right now. 17 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:54,400 Can someone fill me in? 18 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,560 Hello and welcome to the 40s Formula. 19 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:01,060 Your go to place for insightful discussions on navigating your 40s and thriving in this 20 00:01:01,060 --> 00:01:02,360 transformative decade. 21 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,880 We're your hosts, Amanda and Jasmine, two women that are passionate about exploring 22 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:19,640 the challenges and adventures that come with turning 40 and what lies ahead. 23 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:25,360 Born and bred Singaporean Chinese, Dr. Martha Tara Lee is a relationship counselor and clinical 24 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,200 sexologist at Eros Coaching. 25 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:33,760 She has a doctorate in human sexuality, a master's in counseling, and two other advanced 26 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,040 degrees. 27 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:40,480 In practice for 15 years, Dr. Lee is also the resident sexologist of the Singapore Cancer 28 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:46,140 Society and has been recognized as one of the top 50 inspiring women under 40 by Her 29 00:01:46,140 --> 00:01:48,000 World magazine. 30 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,840 She is the author of four books, including Love, Sex, and Everything in Between, and 31 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:59,600 her most recent Uninhibited, and in her spare time is also an established stand up comic. 32 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:04,680 When I was looking at you on Instagram, things that draw me right away to your profile, right? 33 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:06,920 Becoming a masterful lover and passion unleashed. 34 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,560 And I was like, oh, this girl is sexy, personified. 35 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,760 And it made me just think like, okay, this is someone who is not afraid to talk to women 36 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,400 about owning their sexuality. 37 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,540 This is someone who's not afraid to, you know, put the woman in the driver's seat when it 38 00:02:20,540 --> 00:02:21,560 comes to sexuality. 39 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,720 And I think that's a perspective that we really need here on the 40s formula. 40 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,080 So thank you for joining us. 41 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:27,080 Oh, thank you. 42 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:28,720 We're really happy that you're here. 43 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:33,280 Can you tell us a bit about what unique perspectives you bring to your field, right? 44 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,320 Clinical sexology and relationship counseling. 45 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,320 How do you do it differently? 46 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,280 I think it's just like any work. 47 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,440 You bring all of yourself to it. 48 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:52,720 The unique perspective, I guess, would be I see myself as a down to earth practical 49 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,800 kind of a person. 50 00:02:54,800 --> 00:03:00,120 And when I first started my practice, I would say because of lack of experience, a lot of 51 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,560 it was just textbook. 52 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,600 And after a while, I realized it just doesn't work. 53 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,440 So yeah, bring all of myself. 54 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,400 You have to be on your A game. 55 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,840 You have to be relatable. 56 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,840 And I do share my personal stories as a counselor. 57 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:22,640 We are advised to be very aware of too much self-disclosure. 58 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:28,440 But because of my subject matter, it's just impossible to not talk about myself a little 59 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,560 bit only when it serves my client. 60 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,840 So it's not like we share things because we want to take up time. 61 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:43,400 But we want to get them to understand our topic that we're talking about using stories 62 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,120 because stories cut through all kinds of barriers. 63 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,840 Also a lot of my clients, they are sexually inhibited. 64 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,360 They are sexually inexperienced. 65 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,600 So sometimes by sharing stories, it's stories that they never heard of. 66 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,560 And also people don't talk about sex. 67 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:06,080 So I actually see myself as a role model of sorts because I do love sex. 68 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,480 I'm very positive about it. 69 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,400 And this is very different from what they are exposed to. 70 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:13,680 Yeah, you're absolutely right. 71 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:18,560 And I think someone coming from a non-Asian culture now living a decade in an Asian culture, 72 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:24,400 it is to the max here in terms of the modesty and not talking about sex and being sexually 73 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:25,400 inhibited. 74 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,720 I mean, that I feel like describes a great deal of what I at least experienced in Singapore. 75 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,600 Do you think that Singapore is unique compared to other places or other clients that you 76 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:34,600 work with? 77 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:40,040 Yeah, I think that because I see Singapore as a little bit like New York, although New 78 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,380 York is so much more diversified. 79 00:04:42,380 --> 00:04:47,240 So you get a little bit of everything and it's very difficult to put your pulse on what 80 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,480 Singaporeans are like per se because there are so many types of Singaporeans. 81 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:56,440 But I have to say the most inhibited people come to me and I do have a lot of clients 82 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:01,480 who choose to wait until marriage to have sex, both of them. 83 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,760 And they say, oh, it's because we're Asians. 84 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:11,440 So it is definitely very much the way they were brought up, the culture, the societal 85 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,600 messages that we are getting that is influencing how people behave. 86 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:21,680 But I think a lot of Singaporeans are changing because they do question themselves. 87 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,280 We are one of the most westernized countries in Asia. 88 00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:27,600 We are one of the most educated. 89 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,240 Why are we still behaving like this towards sex? 90 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:36,440 So I do see a lot of changes that has happened, especially in the last five years in Singapore, 91 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:42,440 with a lot of different people coming forward wanting to be this or that influencer and 92 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:43,440 whatnot. 93 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:44,800 So yes, it's changing. 94 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:50,960 It's good to have more dialogue and it is definitely more positive. 95 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:55,360 Do you tend to find you get older couples maybe who haven't had a relationship with 96 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,280 each other for a long time trying to reignite something? 97 00:05:58,280 --> 00:06:03,120 So I have a client who's probably in her fifties and she got asked about her sexual health 98 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,720 and she was just like, well, it's been a while. 99 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:11,560 And she doesn't know how to, because they haven't had that kind of intimacy, she doesn't 100 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,080 know how to sort of bring it up. 101 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,160 How can someone approach that topic with their partner? 102 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,880 Like, it's been a few years. 103 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,160 How can you sort of reignite that passion again? 104 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:26,880 Yes, I do work with a lot of clients in long term committed relationship. 105 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:32,640 They can be in sexless marriages for some time and maybe they're just busy with their 106 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:33,640 work. 107 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:40,360 So it is really delicate to talk about something like this when it's become like this kind 108 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:46,840 of big elephant in the room and it becomes more of a topic that they just tiptoe around. 109 00:06:46,840 --> 00:06:51,420 So it is really important to approach it with sensitivity. 110 00:06:51,420 --> 00:06:58,760 So I often just ask them to start by expressing what they're feeling, just very gently to 111 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,440 their partner. 112 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:07,160 And it's not so easy to reignite something when both parties are not willing to put in 113 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:14,360 the effort because you can try things that are quite cliche, like put on lingerie. 114 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:19,440 And I have many people who put on lingerie and just prance around the room and get angry 115 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,160 that it doesn't work. 116 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,840 But that's just textbook, you know? 117 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:25,440 It needs to be consensual. 118 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,360 And they also need to know like, what are you doing this for? 119 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,280 Like are you wearing the lingerie or is the lingerie wearing you? 120 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:37,640 So it also has to do with your confidence and communication, like the intention behind 121 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:42,520 it so that your partner knows, okay, this is kind of what you have in mind versus like 122 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:46,640 just jumping onto them in that way. 123 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,160 It can also feel very violating. 124 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,360 And I think that's, you know, I think that's what's important to understand about what 125 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,920 you would do as a clinical sexologist is not only see what's happening in the sexual 126 00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:58,920 relationship, right? 127 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,600 But understanding what they're trying to communicate to their partner, right? 128 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,120 Because she might have put on the lingerie thinking this is so obvious what I'm communicating 129 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,440 and it just falls on deaf ears because the other partner doesn't understand. 130 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,800 That's the issue with our culture as well, because a lot of them are not comfortable 131 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:15,280 talking about sex. 132 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:16,660 So they hint about it. 133 00:08:16,660 --> 00:08:18,960 And I have so many people say, I didn't get it. 134 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:19,960 Oh, were you trying to do that? 135 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:20,960 I didn't know. 136 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,960 And then they get, they're upset with each other for like, for, you know, the weirdest 137 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:26,960 reasons. 138 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:27,960 Yeah, I think that's the thing. 139 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:29,320 I think men don't understand hints. 140 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,480 Like if you want something, you just got to do it. 141 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:37,920 I mean, yeah, the subtleties are often lost between the sexes. 142 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:42,880 In my work, I find myself becoming some kind of a translator because they don't understand 143 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:44,120 each other. 144 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,400 And so it may seem like, you know, I said the exact same thing, but when I paraphrase 145 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,640 it, they understand. 146 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:51,640 So yeah, I'm a translator. 147 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:52,640 I'm an interpreter. 148 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:53,640 I'm a mediator. 149 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,640 I am an educator. 150 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:58,800 I'm a teacher. 151 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,840 So yeah, many, many different hats. 152 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:06,360 So I like it because our work is so dynamic and we do have to be very sensitive with what 153 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,480 people are like and how they are feeling. 154 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:10,320 So I use a lot of my intuition. 155 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,880 Like no two clients are the same, even though they can be very similar. 156 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:18,800 And I have a lot of experience working with different couples and getting an idea of the 157 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:23,360 possible differences, but still everyone is still different. 158 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:28,760 So when you have somebody who you're saying start up a conversation with your partner, 159 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,720 but if they come from quite a modest background, they don't want to turn around and say, you 160 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:33,680 know, I'm in the mood. 161 00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:38,960 What would be the correct way or the easiest way to start that conversation? 162 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,720 I think sometimes it might be like, I don't know, I'm feeling randy. 163 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:43,720 What would you say? 164 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,720 Yeah, I do have clients who are very shy about it. 165 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:51,420 So we talked through this during sessions, either with them or as a couple. 166 00:09:51,420 --> 00:09:53,480 How would you like your partner to approach you? 167 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:59,240 I'll get them to kind of brainstorm and something as simple as text them. 168 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:04,560 You can text them and say, have some code words. 169 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:12,400 So if you are afraid of speaking directly, it can be indirect still, but you need to 170 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:13,680 be clear. 171 00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:19,680 So something like maybe we can have some private time after we put the kids to bed, things 172 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:20,680 like that. 173 00:10:20,680 --> 00:10:21,680 What is it? 174 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:22,680 Sexy text. 175 00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:25,760 Well, and this brings me to one of the questions I'm dying to ask you. 176 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:26,760 Right. 177 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,520 So, OK, so I want to throw down some sexy text because I'm very cool still here, you know, 178 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,440 almost age 41. 179 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,640 But there is now new language around sex and dating. 180 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,880 This is not the old kind of sexting that maybe we had back in the 90s with our Blackberries. 181 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:43,000 Talk to me about what are these new Gen Z lingoes for sex? 182 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:47,440 And is there even a place for that type of talk within our 40 plus community? 183 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:54,560 Of course, I think we need to be aware of what's happening so that we can better understand, 184 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:58,800 first of all, the world, then maybe your kids. 185 00:10:58,800 --> 00:10:59,800 Stay relevant. 186 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:00,800 I hear you. 187 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:01,800 I hear you. 188 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,800 So, yeah, like walk fishing is one that you interested in. 189 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:05,800 Wait, wait, wait. 190 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:06,800 What is it? 191 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:07,800 Walk fishing. 192 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:08,800 Walk fishing. 193 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:09,800 OK, this is a pop quiz, Jasmine. 194 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:10,800 What do you think that possibly is? 195 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:11,800 Walk fishing. 196 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:12,800 Walk fishing. 197 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:13,800 OK, so I'm going to ask you a question. 198 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,640 So, what is, Jasmine, what do you think that possibly is? 199 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:18,640 Walk fishing. 200 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,560 OK, because I do know now what it is because I watch your thing. 201 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:22,040 Tell me what you think that is. 202 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,080 I have absolutely no idea. 203 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:25,080 Walk fishing. 204 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:26,080 What the hell? 205 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:27,080 Relative to relationship. 206 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,080 I won't say sex and sex, but relationships. 207 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,200 People will call themselves walk. 208 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:34,200 You know, walk. 209 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:35,200 Actually. 210 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:36,200 Like being walk. 211 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:37,200 No. 212 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:38,200 Bless your heart. 213 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:39,200 I feel really old right now. 214 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:40,200 Can someone fill me in? 215 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:44,800 Being walk is being, I would say, excessively politically correct. 216 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:45,800 Oh, OK. 217 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,800 So like very, you know, aware of kind of what, you know, your pronouns to use. 218 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,800 Yeah, that's definitely not me. 219 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:53,800 So walk fishing. 220 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:54,800 I'll let you explain. 221 00:11:54,800 --> 00:12:01,800 Yeah, walk fishing is when you pretend to be walk to get more partners, to get laid. 222 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:02,800 To get laid. 223 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:03,800 Wow. 224 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:04,800 Yeah. 225 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:05,800 I'm definitely not that. 226 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,800 And how about NATO dating or N.A.T.? 227 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:09,800 Is it NATO? 228 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:10,800 NATO. 229 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:15,400 Yeah, I believe it's no action or talk or something. 230 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:16,400 Yeah. 231 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:17,400 Oh, OK. 232 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:18,400 Wow. 233 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:19,400 Is there like a dictionary? 234 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,400 Because I feel like I need to up my linga. 235 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:22,400 Yeah. 236 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,400 Martha's Instagram is dictionary number one. 237 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:25,400 OK. 238 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,400 Yeah, there are different terms that I think most of us should know. 239 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:30,400 Things like ghosting, stonewalling. 240 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:31,400 I know that one. 241 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,400 So you're not as old as you think. 242 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:35,400 No, I don't know that one. 243 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:36,400 Flooding. 244 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:37,400 What is that one? 245 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,920 When your partner is interested in you and trying to give you all kinds of attention 246 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,240 very quickly. 247 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,520 But you kind of don't want like it's like you're over. 248 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:47,520 Too much. 249 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:48,520 Love bombing. 250 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:49,520 Love bombing. 251 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:50,520 I've had love bombing. 252 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:51,520 Yeah. 253 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:52,520 Flooding is when you talk too much. 254 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:53,520 How interesting. 255 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:54,520 I don't pull names on it. 256 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:55,520 Is this all in text? 257 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,800 Is this in text or is this like just a general thing? 258 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:01,560 Like they come at you too much. 259 00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:04,040 Like it doesn't necessarily, it's not exclusive to the phone communication. 260 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:05,520 It could be also in person. 261 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,040 Gives attention. 262 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:09,600 So many things. 263 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:14,520 I think that's their way to super express the relationship so that they can get what 264 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:15,960 they want. 265 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:25,040 And these people may have narcissistic tendencies where they then play on it by withdrawing 266 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:26,040 their affection. 267 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,040 Interesting. 268 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:28,040 Okay. 269 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,280 So that can be kind of symbolic of a pattern perhaps that you should be aware of. 270 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:32,920 Well, so that kind of backs it up then. 271 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:37,440 So besides obviously, you know, helping us understand Gen Z lingo and, you know, helping 272 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,800 the couples that you work with, what's a day in the life for you? 273 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,840 So when you wake up in the morning, what is a clinical sexologist doing with her day? 274 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,040 And I expect sex to be in there somewhere. 275 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,040 No pressure. 276 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:54,440 Amanda, I just discovered this super awesome, good for your 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289 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,760 Don't forget to try their elderberry boost and probiotic base products, which are actually 290 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:29,480 perfect for babies too. 291 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,160 And now back to the conversation. 292 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,400 Yeah, every day is different depending on what I have going on. 293 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,120 Like today I have a podcast and I have a meeting. 294 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:47,200 Then I have, yeah, I'm being interviewed to be a court witness. 295 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:48,200 Yeah. 296 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:49,200 Wow. 297 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:50,560 Yeah, different things. 298 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,080 Then I have social time. 299 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:59,040 So I think the busiest days will be the weekends for me where I have lots of clients one after 300 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:00,040 another. 301 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:05,120 So what I try to do is I try to group my activities like what you all do as well in your life. 302 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,080 You try to group it because once you're in the flow, it's much easier. 303 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:17,280 Even though I can have anywhere between one to seven clients in a day. 304 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:22,840 But yeah, you group them and then you just kind of go with the flow. 305 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:27,840 And I think one of the reasons that we wanted to have you on the podcast today was because 306 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,840 the clients that you are working with on the weekends that you're seeing back to back, 307 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,840 you expressed that you do a lot of work with midlife women, right? 308 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,960 And women that are going through paramenopause and menopausal changes. 309 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:44,040 Can you talk to us about your participation in the midlife sex festival and what that 310 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:45,040 was like? 311 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:52,760 Okay, it was really about paramenopause and menopause because this is the topic that Dr. 312 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:54,440 Claire was interested in. 313 00:15:54,440 --> 00:16:02,520 So Dr. Claire is an oncologist, gynae, and because of my work with Singapore Cancer Society, 314 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:03,520 I'm their sexologist. 315 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:10,600 So I do have quite a number of clients who have cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer, 316 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,000 different kinds of cancer. 317 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,600 So they would go into menopause and so that's that intersection. 318 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,680 So I did a session on that. 319 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:22,600 But they had other things as well like nutrition and other topics. 320 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:27,280 What are the common, I don't want to say complaints, let's say presenting issues that you're seeing 321 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:28,720 from women in their 40s. 322 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,640 Like when you have that target age group, what are the reasons they're coming to see 323 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:33,640 you? 324 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,920 Well, because for me, I only approach it from the perspective of sex. 325 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:44,700 So for them, it usually is a low sex drive or no sex drive and dryness, painful sex. 326 00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:49,880 So usually I pretty much cover the same things again and again, like what they can do using 327 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:56,440 lubricants, vaginal moisturizer, going to a doctor for maybe HRT. 328 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:02,520 I don't necessarily am against it because I think it's more about having an educated 329 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:07,120 decision, informed decision about the different options so that you have the best quality 330 00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:08,640 of life possible. 331 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,020 Have you had clients where you're thinking, okay, maybe this woman needs HRT to kind of 332 00:17:13,020 --> 00:17:14,700 reignite her sex drive. 333 00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:18,600 She goes and does it and then it works like where it's like, wow, that was really the 334 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:19,600 missing link. 335 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:20,600 Yes, yes, of course. 336 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:26,680 But I've also met people who have gone on HRT testosterone replacement therapy and it 337 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,920 also doesn't work for them because sex is so much more than just physical. 338 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,680 It has a lot to do with your mind body connection, the way you think about sex, the way you feel 339 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:40,240 about yourself, the way you relate with your partner, so many different dimensions. 340 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:45,280 So I don't focus so much on the medical side because I'm not a medical doctor. 341 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:49,600 What I do is I focus very much on how they think, how they feel and how their relationship 342 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:50,600 is like. 343 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,960 I feel like stress seems to be one of the big sort of interplays when it comes to how 344 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:56,560 your relationship is with your partner. 345 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,720 Like a man will come home and if he's stressed, he has sex, he might feel better. 346 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,560 But a woman comes home, if she's stressed, she doesn't want to have sex. 347 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:11,480 So how do you sort of incorporate that into your practice so that people feel that they're 348 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:19,000 still having a meaningful relationship but they're not feeling obliged to serve the other 349 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,960 partner almost? 350 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,640 I think you're so right because this happens all the time. 351 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,000 They don't get it. 352 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,760 It's like a duck and chicken talking. 353 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,440 They just don't get each other. 354 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:35,720 So I have to step in and kind of soothe things out a little bit and try to get them to understand 355 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:37,480 one another. 356 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,760 So it can be challenging. 357 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:44,320 It is really important to also teach them around consent because just because you are 358 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:50,200 married, it doesn't mean that you have to give sex every single time your partner asks 359 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:51,200 for it. 360 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:55,600 So the amount of pressure, the amount of guilt and also the amount of abuse that actually 361 00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:02,480 is happening where there's tantrums that are being thrown and even threat of violence. 362 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,160 So it is really, really scary for women. 363 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:11,760 So I'm not sure whether there's really a best way to navigate this. 364 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,600 I think it's different for different people because it really depends on how understanding 365 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,560 your partner is willing to be. 366 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:23,600 I think it's really important to be an advocate of yourself, to use stories or analogies to 367 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,160 describe what you're feeling so that your partner has more empathy. 368 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,360 Because a lot of people, they just say no and they don't say why and then they say no 369 00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:34,440 all the time and then the partner tries different things and it's always a no. 370 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:41,040 So we also have to understand the way they're thinking, which is what can I do to make things 371 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,040 better. 372 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,560 I think a lot of women just don't ask for what can make things better. 373 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,960 They just say no. 374 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,320 And I think this can be a little bit TMI, so get ready everybody. 375 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,920 And if you are my husband listening, turn it off. 376 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:57,760 I think an example of that was going through childbirth. 377 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:02,480 And for the first time ever, I did not want my husband anywhere near my breast. 378 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,440 I was like, this is literally like barbed wire. 379 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:06,860 Like you cannot touch. 380 00:20:06,860 --> 00:20:10,800 And it was so hard for him to wrap his mind around the fact that something that was immediately 381 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,440 pleasurable before was so much the opposite now. 382 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,160 Because men will never experience that. 383 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,800 Where something that was pleasurable for them, it just turns off and changes. 384 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:24,040 But it goes through changes because of the hormones and also your breastfeeding. 385 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:29,360 It's overstimulated and it just feels, you know, I have clients who say that, you know, 386 00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:32,800 they feel like they need something for themselves. 387 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:33,800 Yeah, exactly. 388 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,320 It's really, really OK. 389 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:40,480 You just need to be able to better explain that to them. 390 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:41,480 And that's the thing. 391 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,320 So now I want to give him a shout out now if he is still listening, is that then, you 392 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:50,600 know, he was very receptive to the understanding that it's temporary for me. 393 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,840 It's obviously related to this thing called breastfeeding. 394 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:53,960 It's not you. 395 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,200 And that, you know, for now we have to explore different ways. 396 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:58,760 And he was super open to that. 397 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,600 But I think the conversation at first was hard and scary. 398 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,680 And having someone like you there in the room, I could see how that could really help couples 399 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,680 negotiate those conversations that are that feel weird. 400 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,240 Hey, Amanda, picture this. 401 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:12,240 You're in your 40s. 402 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:13,240 I am. 403 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:14,240 You are. 404 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,280 You're working, you're raising kids, you're breastfeeding and you're hungry. 405 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:19,280 That sounds about right. 406 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,000 But you're not going to feed yourself and your family any old crap. 407 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,360 No, that's actually why we use the meat club. 408 00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:28,240 The meat club is the premier source for top quality Australia and New Zealand produce 409 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:29,520 right here in Singapore. 410 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,560 And if you're tired of the endless struggle of meal planning, guess what? 411 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:37,000 The meat club subscription service delivers top quality meat direct to your door. 412 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,040 And we have a little treat for our listeners. 413 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:45,840 As a new customer, you can get $12 off with the discount code TFF12 with no minimum spend. 414 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:50,800 Discounts are only valid, though, through the website, themeatclub.com.sg. 415 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,680 And for more updates, recipes and special offers, don't forget to follow The Meat Club 416 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,880 on Instagram at themeatclub.sg. 417 00:21:57,880 --> 00:21:59,480 Now back to the chat. 418 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:05,880 Yeah, my clients are amazed and I'm also amazed how much they start to review as they feel 419 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:11,360 safe because a lot of times they start talking to each other and they get interrupted and 420 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:12,640 they get emotional. 421 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,640 So when they have someone like me who's like a mediator making sure that both parties get 422 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,960 to say both sides of their story, then it becomes much clearer. 423 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:26,600 So they actually say, you know, just one session with me actually saves them like years of 424 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:27,920 possible grief. 425 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,480 Yeah, you're absolutely right. 426 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,400 And I think, you know, so the topic of, you know, breastfeeding and breast and stuff, 427 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,520 that's something that is kind of on the woman, right? 428 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:40,020 The onus is on us to talk about it because the men would never know that it was happening. 429 00:22:40,020 --> 00:22:44,160 But what I love about your work is that you also go in deep on some of the male issues 430 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:50,240 like premature ejaculation, male infertility, male chauvinism, which is obviously something 431 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,960 that can come between the ability to sexually communicate correctly. 432 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,680 How do you kind of get men talking? 433 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,680 Because I think that's a tough one. 434 00:22:58,680 --> 00:22:59,680 Yeah. 435 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,600 So the thing is, I was actually surprised when I started my practice that I actually 436 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,720 for a start had more men than women because a lot of men actually feel comfortable with 437 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:10,720 women. 438 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,760 They projected that quality onto me thinking that, oh, I'm going to be, you know, very 439 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:15,760 gentle with them. 440 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,760 Although over the years, you show a Martha. 441 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:24,800 Over the years I've learned to be more gentle for sure because I really get that not everybody 442 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,040 sees life the way I see it. 443 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:28,040 Yes. 444 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:32,800 So I very soon realized that even though I actually feel quite unsafe putting myself 445 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:38,920 out there working with men and women, it was really important because I cannot in all fairness 446 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,400 say that I love women and I want to help women and then I don't help the partner. 447 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:48,800 So I actually keep working with the men because I also realized that there are men who are 448 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:54,200 being abused and being badly treated by their partners and they needed to find voice and 449 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:55,720 get support as well. 450 00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:01,840 So over the years, I really have become an advocate of men because they are precious. 451 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,560 They are beautiful. 452 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,240 They take a lot of pride in providing and being the hero. 453 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,600 And I think there's a lot of miscommunication happening with couples where they just don't 454 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,600 understand each other. 455 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,920 They are trying to express their love but are not able to understand. 456 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:25,600 So it's really important to get to the root of it for a lot of them. 457 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,440 I think that's the thing, isn't it? 458 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,760 You can't help one side of the couple. 459 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:35,440 You need to be able to help both because otherwise then you might have a female who'd be like, 460 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:36,440 right, I'm ready. 461 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:37,440 I'm ready to have sex. 462 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,680 If the other guy is not quite ready, then it's only 50% of the equation and you still 463 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,040 don't have that balance that you need. 464 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:50,480 What I wanted to actually ask was that do you find now you have women who have this 465 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:57,680 romanticized, romantic comedy idea of what love and sex and relationship is like, then 466 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:03,320 you have men who watch porn and have their idea of what sex should be like. 467 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:08,720 Is there almost like a mismatch between the two in terms of what they're expecting from 468 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,120 their sexual relationship? 469 00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:11,120 Definitely. 470 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:15,420 I think we are very much influenced by the media, by the porn we watch. 471 00:25:15,420 --> 00:25:16,920 So it is happening. 472 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:22,840 So this is where I come in and let them know this is what men think, this is what women 473 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,480 think, this is how you communicate with a man. 474 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:33,040 One of the tips about working, speaking with your partner who is a man is never ever raise 475 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,840 your voice, never ever shout. 476 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,920 I think it really affects them a lot more than women realize. 477 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,880 And I think a lot of women also think that just because your partner looks like they 478 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:48,200 are not listening or your partner seems to have a poker face, that it didn't get into 479 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,320 your partner, but in reality they can have a very sensitive soul. 480 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,600 And so they do not realize how much damage they are doing to their partner through the 481 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:01,760 repetition, the nagging, the flooding. 482 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,840 So this is one of the biggest ones that I keep seeing women doing. 483 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:07,840 And I can imagine that. 484 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,800 I definitely have been guilty of losing my shit on my partner before and I can tell that 485 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:17,680 it wounds him for like much longer than I would intend. 486 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,080 Much longer than if it had been done to you. 487 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:21,080 Yes, exactly. 488 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,040 Oh yeah, no worries, rolls off my back. 489 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:24,040 No, I'm just kidding. 490 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:25,040 I feel like I'm the opposite though. 491 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:26,040 Really? 492 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,080 If I get upset by him, I do the silent treatment, like I can't talk, I go quiet. 493 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,600 And I think that affects him even more because it's like, oh shit, she's not talking. 494 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:35,600 What have I done? 495 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:36,600 Yeah, opposite attract. 496 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:43,360 So you will often find partners, couples who have these kinds of tendencies because one 497 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:46,640 person in the relationship needs more space. 498 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,280 That makes total sense. 499 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:54,000 How do you ensure that when your clients are with you, that they have safety and they have 500 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:55,000 privacy? 501 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,360 Because I do think that like one of the reasons that maybe people don't seek out help is because 502 00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:00,840 they think it'll get out, right? 503 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,240 The conversation will somehow leak. 504 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:04,800 How do you ensure safety and privacy? 505 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:10,480 Yeah, so the thing is people always assume or maybe I don't know why. 506 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,320 The thing is, as counselors, we do have our code of ethics. 507 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:18,600 We have to ensure privacy, confidentiality of our clients, which is the reason why whenever 508 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,840 the media contacts me, I almost never share any stories of my clients, but I can talk 509 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,320 about them in general. 510 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:30,160 So never a specific client. 511 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,920 So yeah, they do worry about it, but actually we have to abide by our code of ethics as 512 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:35,920 counselors. 513 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,520 So I'm not sure what I can say to convince people. 514 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:44,120 This is one of the reasons why I put out a lot of content about my work so that people 515 00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:50,640 can become more informed and feel safer about getting support because it's such a personal 516 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,120 private topic. 517 00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:57,880 So unfortunately, I am actually seeing a lot of people having an issue for a very, very 518 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:03,040 long time and really on the verge of divorce, separation, and sometimes it's too little, 519 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:08,960 too late because they just don't want to try anymore. 520 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:16,480 Talking about separation and divorce, some couples may experience infidelity, especially 521 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:22,800 if the husband has needs that are not being satisfied, I guess. 522 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:30,280 I read actually on one of the Expat Women Forum groups that her husband cheated on her 523 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,000 and she actually still wanted to remain in the relationship. 524 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,680 How can you come back from that? 525 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:42,720 If there has been infidelity, how can you come back from that experience to maybe even 526 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,680 make your sex life stronger? 527 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:46,680 Is there a way? 528 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:47,680 Can you come back from it? 529 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:52,520 Yeah, so actually cheating is much more common than people think and actually a lot more 530 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,200 people than we think actually choose to stay in the marriage. 531 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,920 And what happens, I noticed, is a lot of men, they just want to move on. 532 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,640 If they want cheating, they just want to move on. 533 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,880 They just want the partner to forget about it. 534 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,400 If this happens, you just repress your emotions. 535 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,600 Actually it comes out in other ways. 536 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,400 And then the body actually does not want to have sex. 537 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,440 So it's really important to get to the root of why actually did it happen and can you 538 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,460 get stronger because of it rather than let this tear you apart. 539 00:29:22,460 --> 00:29:25,600 And often there are multiple reasons why this happened. 540 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,040 And so to be able to admit a lot of times is emotional neglect. 541 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,320 A lot of times is being emotionally unavailable. 542 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,260 So it's important to talk about those things. 543 00:29:35,260 --> 00:29:39,760 So it's not as simple as, oh, let's just have sex quickly. 544 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,920 We need to address the underlying issues. 545 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,800 Yeah, I mean, you can have sex and then you think that you are recovered or whatever. 546 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,800 But actually that's not the case. 547 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,500 And do you think that seeing someone, so seeing a sexologist, for example, is kind of a necessary 548 00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:55,280 step for couples that have had infidelity? 549 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,920 Yeah, I think we can definitely help because I have experience helping clients to unpack 550 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:05,480 all this and put in the foundational blocks again so that the relationship gets stronger 551 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,020 and even better. 552 00:30:07,020 --> 00:30:12,680 It is also important to process your emotions separate of your partner who cheated on you 553 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:18,600 because a lot of times they just feel so much anger, rage and injustice and they want revenge. 554 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:26,960 And sometimes it's not necessarily the best thing to keep renting at your partner because 555 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,560 they get so much of it and they start asking themselves, do I even really want to work 556 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:32,560 at it? 557 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,360 It just seems so hopeless. 558 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,120 So women have obviously roughly a 28 day cycle. 559 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,960 So their hormones do really affect their sex drive and usually sort of peak in the middle 560 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,880 of the cycle, whereas men have almost like a 24 hour hormonal cycle where they probably 561 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,880 want to have sex every day. 562 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:57,920 How do you manage that sort of interplay then between couples who maybe only feel like having 563 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:02,840 sex maybe two or three times out of the month in comparison to the men who want to have 564 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:08,160 sex all the time and they think that their wives are rejecting them because they're not 565 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:09,160 into it? 566 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:14,240 Like how can you sort of explain that to couples? 567 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,840 I think it's not true that men want sex all the time. 568 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:23,880 A lot of times they want what sex makes them feel, which is the closeness, the intimacy, 569 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,840 the feeling of being desired. 570 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,480 So even when you don't feel like having sex, it's really important to understand where 571 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:30,640 your partner is coming from. 572 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,800 Is it a physical need or is it an emotional need? 573 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:40,840 Being able to communicate how horny are you and then be able to navigate compromises or 574 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,400 options like how about I watch you masturbate tonight or how about I give you a hand job 575 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,480 instead or can we take out the toys? 576 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,560 Like there are actually many, many options that we can have. 577 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:56,240 I think a lot of people actually, if they could, they would like to have more sex than 578 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,280 they are. 579 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,840 It's a real thing that we are tired, we are stressed, we're exhausted. 580 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,360 There are life challenges involved. 581 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:11,040 So it's really important to have a partner who is actually engaged in the family life 582 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:17,400 instead of a partner who hides in the study room and souts and masturbates to porn. 583 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,960 I have had partners discover that their partner is masturbating to porn and then the partner 584 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:21,960 say what do you expect? 585 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:22,960 What was happening? 586 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:23,960 Look at what you're doing. 587 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,760 Look at how much you are not talking to me. 588 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,360 Look at how you are rejecting me. 589 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,240 What do you think was happening? 590 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:40,120 So a lot of women just really focus on the kids and they sometimes don't wake up until 591 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:41,880 it's too late. 592 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,120 I like that text idea though. 593 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:44,120 How horny are you? 594 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:45,120 1 to 10. 595 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,160 I'm taking notes for my sexy text. 596 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:55,720 So I am, again, I heard on another podcast actually that women need to sort of feel arousal 597 00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:01,200 usually by engaging in the act whereas it takes them a bit of time to sort of get into 598 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:06,160 it whereas men I think can sort of I guess turn it on a lot quicker. 599 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,440 So how can you take that step? 600 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:13,200 So for example, would it be just maybe kissing her neck and then she might be like, oh actually 601 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:18,280 I am a bit horny or you know, is that something that you would recommend to the clients? 602 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:23,760 Maybe try and see if it leads somewhere or do you feel like a conversation should come 603 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,520 first but then if a conversation does come first maybe the lady or the wife or the woman 604 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,920 might not feel into the mood until she gets into the act? 605 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,120 I don't know if my question makes sense. 606 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,360 Yeah, it makes sense. 607 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:41,000 So does this thing called spontaneous versus responsive sexual desire? 608 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:48,680 So spontaneous people I would describe like a microwave, like they get aroused much more 609 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:54,040 quickly and then people with a responsive sexual desire, they need more stimulation 610 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,200 and it needs to be some kind of a physical stimulation. 611 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,980 What happens with a lot of people is they are tired so they are mentally not even receptive 612 00:34:00,980 --> 00:34:05,080 to that and so it's really important to take care of your energy because your energy is 613 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:10,480 your life force energy and it actually affects everything and unfortunately a lot of women 614 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:16,200 are not very good at managing their time or their energy and so they don't have any energy 615 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,960 left for sex. 616 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:26,840 So it's really important to practice self-care and even then is also the openness to trying. 617 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,000 I have had clients, I know many people who actually say I don't feel like it, don't touch 618 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:37,360 me so they are not even open to that possibility of my body needs some time to respond. 619 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:42,280 Another thing is that the way men and women think about sex are really very different 620 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:48,080 because men think of sex as a goal, they think of it like what's the point of trying if I 621 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,960 am not guaranteed the results. 622 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,320 How can you say sex is a journey and it's a process and you're going to stop then why 623 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,920 would I even want to start something that I can't end? 624 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,120 So the way men and women think of it is indeed very different. 625 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:07,480 So it's really about educating each other where the other person is coming at and having 626 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,380 agreements that okay today we'll try it this way and today we'll try it your way. 627 00:35:11,380 --> 00:35:17,320 So I'm definitely not someone who is for one way, I think that we need to be open to different 628 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:23,800 ways and different ways of living life and doing things but some people are really do 629 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,480 much better with routine and creatures of habit. 630 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:31,960 So it can be very challenging especially for men who have that tendency. 631 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:37,680 And I think it's funny as a coach, I think about outcome goals versus process goals and 632 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:42,240 so when you're too outcome oriented it can actually stop the process from happening, 633 00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:43,240 right? 634 00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:44,240 That's kind of what you're describing here. 635 00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:49,320 And a lot of women want to enjoy the process and a lot of men do well with having clear 636 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:50,540 outcomes. 637 00:35:50,540 --> 00:35:55,280 So this is one of the reasons why coaching needs to feel good for women. 638 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,360 Yeah darn right. 639 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:02,040 Well what do you think so okay so we've talked about kind of what it takes to get into sex, 640 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,000 you know how you communicate with your partner about sex. 641 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:09,760 What are some of the taboos though that people are still not ready to talk about? 642 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:14,960 I think we talked about low sex drive and not wanting to have sex. 643 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:21,120 I think a lot of people have difficulties to basically speak up and say like hey I'm 644 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,320 not having sex like here's the reality. 645 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:30,800 And then or hint and then like don't say why and things like that. 646 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:37,080 So yeah I mean you know I always think of like sex in the city right set in the American 647 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,320 context right where it's like these four women that incessantly talk about sex with each 648 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,840 other with other people one of them is writing a column about it right like it's like very 649 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,080 very out there. 650 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:50,000 Are there is that community a myth in Singapore? 651 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,400 Are there women out there talking about sex? 652 00:36:52,400 --> 00:37:00,000 I think the younger generation there are some groups trying to form these kind of communities. 653 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,600 I'm also trying to form one. 654 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:08,680 I signed a contract with Sex Positive World in US so I'm trying to start a Sex Positive 655 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:10,880 World community in Singapore. 656 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:12,600 Tell us about that what does that mean? 657 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:19,760 So basically I wanted to create a community where people have certain training around 658 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:27,400 consent and boundaries and we are just a group of people who know that sex is a positive 659 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:32,800 thing and we want to have positive attitudes about sex and not judge other people for whatever 660 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:38,280 lifestyle that they choose to be in or whatever sexual activities they choose to be in and 661 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:44,040 so it's like an inclusive community where we it's like a social club that I'm trying 662 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:48,900 to create where people feel safe because I think as you get older you lose friends to 663 00:37:48,900 --> 00:37:56,800 marriage to babies and people leave people die all these things and so sometimes you 664 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,920 get lonely and you don't know like how to make friends or where to go and make friends 665 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:09,880 who have who have certain guidelines of basically respect so I wanted to create this social 666 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:11,600 club for that reason. 667 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:17,360 So I think there are different kinds of communities popping up here and there different support 668 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:23,040 groups different like reading circle whatnot I think it's all good because different people 669 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,040 vibe with different activities and things. 670 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:32,960 I was just wondering do you find that in especially in sort of in the Asian culture in Singapore 671 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,440 it's almost like taboo if you are having sex and then taboo if you're not having sex and 672 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:37,440 you can't win. 673 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:43,160 Which is the reason why I often get asked like what's the normal frequency of sex, what 674 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,360 is the healthy frequency. 675 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:52,520 I think it's really up to the individual if there's no distress then there's no issue 676 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:57,720 a lot of times it is because one person in the relationship is not happy and sometimes 677 00:38:57,720 --> 00:39:03,280 if your partner wants to have a lot more sex than the other person you also have to look 678 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:09,520 at is this like is this really because they have a high sex trial or is it because they 679 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:15,600 have other challenges going on like clients with other mental health issues like depression 680 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:24,400 or ADHD or OCD or things like that that actually may cause them to want to put that onto their 681 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:25,400 partner. 682 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:31,240 Let's say that you've got a couple who are both open to communicating with each other 683 00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:36,480 what would you say your top three tips to really sort of get it all going off like you 684 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,320 know what would you recommend? 685 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:44,560 Well if they are really open to everything it would be good to have at least some time 686 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:49,040 to talk about can you give me feedback about the way we are communicating with each other. 687 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,480 I think a lot of couples talk talk talk they communicate they think they communicate well 688 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,480 but pretty much every single couple that I've worked with they never ask for feedback about 689 00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,240 the way they are communicating with each other. 690 00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:03,840 That would be the first one is that way that I can talk to you in a way that will work 691 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,040 better for you would be the first. 692 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:14,440 Then the second would be maybe come up with a sex bucket list come up with your desires 693 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,840 what are some of the things that you've always wanted to try haven't had a chance to try 694 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:24,560 why are we waiting you know at what point can we can we make some time for these things 695 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:29,000 to happen what can we do to make things happen and maybe you need to save money to make some 696 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:33,040 of these things happen but if you don't start talking about it then of course it will never 697 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,040 happen. 698 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,040 Yeah pen to paper. 699 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:45,280 The third one is always be open minded be curious and maybe learn together. 700 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:50,360 I know people who are like oh yeah you know send their partner to me for this or that 701 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:56,440 workshop but it really is a missed opportunity if they don't attend it together because they 702 00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:01,600 can talk about what they what they learn and then they can continue processing it even 703 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,160 after the workshop which is not possible if only one person attends it. 704 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,600 Yeah because then you spend half the time just talking about what happened at the workshop 705 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,400 before you can even get to how it applies to your relationship. 706 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,200 What happened at the workshop that you were not there at. 707 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,200 Yeah that you were not there at exactly but I'm paraphrasing probably quite terribly for 708 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:16,200 you. 709 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:20,360 Just going back to that sex bucket list it reminds me of this meme I saw on Instagram 710 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,680 it was if you could have you know let's make a list of the five people we're allowed to 711 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,800 have sex with and you won't object to so the woman puts down I don't know like Johnny Depp 712 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:33,720 Brad Pitt you know and George Clooney and a few other famous people and then the husband 713 00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:36,720 puts down his sister her best friend. 714 00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:43,800 So beware take caution with the sex bucket list you know listeners this may not turn 715 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:44,800 out as you want. 716 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,560 No well so we are running out of time here Dr. Martha and we've loved having you on and 717 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,160 the question that we ask each and every one of our guests right and coming from your area 718 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:59,000 of expertise what is your 40s formula what are you telling women in their 40s about what 719 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:03,520 you do to help them thrive and feel best in this decade. 720 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:08,520 I think the first thing I would say for women in their 40s and I am in my 40s I'm 48. 721 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,520 Wow you look amazing. 722 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,920 It helps when you haven't had kids. 723 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:15,520 Fair enough fair point listeners. 724 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,920 Judge us less harshly. 725 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:26,520 So the first one is don't be embarrassed to get things to help you with your sex life 726 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:31,080 whether it's lubricants whether it's sex toys don't be embarrassed with that because we 727 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,360 use devices to help us have an easier life. 728 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,840 Why do we think it will be otherwise in this area in our life. 729 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:43,560 I think that would be the biggest one then the next one is the moment you feel something 730 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:48,460 is off with your body be very first of all be very aware but the moment you feel something 731 00:42:48,460 --> 00:42:53,240 is different something has shifted something is affecting you distressing you get get support 732 00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:54,240 sooner than later. 733 00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:59,440 I think this is why men live longer when they're married because their wives are sensitive 734 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,840 to their changes and watches out for them and next to them make sure that they go to 735 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,280 a doctor but make sure you do that for yourself as well. 736 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:08,480 Yeah I think that would be the second one. 737 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:14,440 The third one is I cannot emphasize this enough we give so much to people it's really important 738 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,920 that we take care of ourselves. 739 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:21,040 I came across this YouTube video that said this and it's kind of my favorite phrase at 740 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:22,800 the moment. 741 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:28,640 Men don't remember what you do for them men remember what you do for yourself. 742 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:29,640 It's lovely. 743 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:34,400 That is really really helpful and again you know you said about getting the support you 744 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,600 need give yourself the care that you need and don't be ashamed about it right and I 745 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,680 think that can apply to so many different areas of our 40s. 746 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,440 So thank you so much for joining us today Martha it's been awesome talking to you. 747 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:46,440 Thanks for having me. 748 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,760 It's been great thank you. 749 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,680 This is Paul our editor. 750 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:57,680 He's a 25 year old unmarried Singaporean guy listening to the ramblings of 12 older women 751 00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,460 on everything from menopause to weightlifting to sex. 752 00:44:01,460 --> 00:44:04,200 So Paul what's your thoughts on today's conversation? 753 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,880 Hey what's up Paul here. 754 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:11,800 So Martha you know I really could relate when you mentioned being in an Asian culture like 755 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,920 Singapore you know where people don't actually talk about sex you know people think it's 756 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:21,680 like a taboo you know because of the way we're brought up the culture the conservative societal 757 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:27,240 messages that influence how we behave and perceive it I guess as negative but that isn't 758 00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:30,400 really true and I think what you're doing is really cool you know you know the part 759 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:35,920 where you mentioned about the analogy as a translator to help couples that understand 760 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:41,280 each other you know I really could relate to it because I'm actually a music therapist 761 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:46,840 in training and having the idea of helping clients express their feelings and understand 762 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:52,840 who they are you know in my case well in relation to music as a means of therapy you know I 763 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:57,280 think it's really cool so you know keep it up I love what you're doing and you know hope 764 00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,120 to catch you in the next one. 765 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:00,120 See ya. 766 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,160 Guys you know how much we love coffee and if you want to show us some love you know 767 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:05,360 you can get us one. 768 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:09,840 Just visit buymeacoffee.com slash the 40s formula. 769 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:10,840 Cheers. 770 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,360 Gizzy man left us this review. 771 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,080 All the episodes are making me fact check the supplements I'm taking love the detailed 772 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:22,960 discussion with real life people talking about their experiences just makes it more interesting 773 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:24,440 and relatable. 774 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:28,080 Thank you so much Gizzy we try to keep it real as much as possible here and we're going 775 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:33,400 to keep that real life discussion coming to you and our seasons to come. 776 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:38,120 Before we go please remember to hit subscribe and take a moment to support the 40s formula 777 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,520 by leaving a review on your favorite podcast platform. 778 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,160 Your reviews will help us to reach more people and allow us to continue to bring valuable 779 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:49,440 content it should only take a moment and it's a free way for you to support the show. 780 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:55,040 You can also stay updated with the 40s formula by following us on Instagram at the 40s formula 781 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:56,440 all one word. 782 00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:01,040 We share behind the scenes insights episode updates and much more so please be sure to 783 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:02,660 hit that follow button. 784 00:46:02,660 --> 00:46:06,080 We appreciate your time and support thank you for being part of this community and we'll 785 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,080 be back next week for more empowering conversations with inspiring guests. 786 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:11,080 Bye. 787 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:40,960 I'll see you next week. 788 00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:58,000 How do you prefer do you prefer to be Dr. Lee, Dr. Martha Tara Lee, Dr. Martha Lee? 789 00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:59,000 Doesn't matter. 790 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:00,000 Okay. 791 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:01,920 I always feel this like the same way. 792 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:03,680 I was like, is it Cheryl Cam, Cheryl Cam? 793 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,640 I don't want to say American accent is very Tara. 794 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,160 Yeah, because you would say Tara, I would say Tara. 795 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,160 And I think that's the accent thing. 796 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:12,640 It's totally the accent thing. 797 00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:13,640 Doesn't matter. 798 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:14,640 Am I speaking too loud? 799 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:15,640 Are you Singaporean? 800 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:16,640 Okay. 801 00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:22,960 So I do feel like Singaporeans are way more chill about getting mispronounced that we're 802 00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,880 like it terrifies me to think about mispronouncing a name. 803 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,680 Actually, I don't like it. 804 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:30,160 My husband's used to it every day. 805 00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:31,760 So my son's name is Kaian. 806 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:32,760 It's spelled K-Y-A-N. 807 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,920 And everyone calls him Kian. 808 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:40,320 And then I'm like, it's Ryan with a K, you know, I'm constantly. 809 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:41,320 That's not bad though. 810 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:42,320 That is very helpful. 811 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:43,320 Yeah. 812 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:47,440 And then I kind of feel like you need to correct somebody if it's being mispronounced, but 813 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:49,440 he's just like, oh, it's fine. 814 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,960 I'm like, he is not your name. 815 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,360 Don't let them call you that. 816 00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:55,960 I was formerly fat to you. 817 00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:57,960 You're still not formally athletic. 818 00:47:57,960 --> 00:47:58,960 True. 819 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,960 Formally athletic and now on the decline. 820 00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:05,960 Definitely not now.