I think we need to be aware of what's happening so that we can better understand, first of
all, the world, then maybe your kids.
Stay relevant.
Hit the nerve, Mark, I hear you.
So yeah, like walk fishing is one that you introduce to me.
Wait, wait, wait, what is it?
Walk fishing.
Relative to, I won't say sex and stuff, but relationships.
People will call themselves woke.
You know woke.
Actually.
Like being woke.
No, have I?
Bless your heart.
I'm really old right now.
Can someone fill me in?
Hello and welcome to the 40s Formula.
Your go to place for insightful discussions on navigating your 40s and thriving in this
transformative decade.
We're your hosts, Amanda and Jasmine, two women that are passionate about exploring
the challenges and adventures that come with turning 40 and what lies ahead.
Born and bred Singaporean Chinese, Dr. Martha Tara Lee is a relationship counselor and clinical
sexologist at Eros Coaching.
She has a doctorate in human sexuality, a master's in counseling, and two other advanced
degrees.
In practice for 15 years, Dr. Lee is also the resident sexologist of the Singapore Cancer
Society and has been recognized as one of the top 50 inspiring women under 40 by Her
World magazine.
She is the author of four books, including Love, Sex, and Everything in Between, and
her most recent Uninhibited, and in her spare time is also an established stand up comic.
When I was looking at you on Instagram, things that draw me right away to your profile, right?
Becoming a masterful lover and passion unleashed.
And I was like, oh, this girl is sexy, personified.
And it made me just think like, okay, this is someone who is not afraid to talk to women
about owning their sexuality.
This is someone who's not afraid to, you know, put the woman in the driver's seat when it
comes to sexuality.
And I think that's a perspective that we really need here on the 40s formula.
So thank you for joining us.
Oh, thank you.
We're really happy that you're here.
Can you tell us a bit about what unique perspectives you bring to your field, right?
Clinical sexology and relationship counseling.
How do you do it differently?
I think it's just like any work.
You bring all of yourself to it.
The unique perspective, I guess, would be I see myself as a down to earth practical
kind of a person.
And when I first started my practice, I would say because of lack of experience, a lot of
it was just textbook.
And after a while, I realized it just doesn't work.
So yeah, bring all of myself.
You have to be on your A game.
You have to be relatable.
And I do share my personal stories as a counselor.
We are advised to be very aware of too much self-disclosure.
But because of my subject matter, it's just impossible to not talk about myself a little
bit only when it serves my client.
So it's not like we share things because we want to take up time.
But we want to get them to understand our topic that we're talking about using stories
because stories cut through all kinds of barriers.
Also a lot of my clients, they are sexually inhibited.
They are sexually inexperienced.
So sometimes by sharing stories, it's stories that they never heard of.
And also people don't talk about sex.
So I actually see myself as a role model of sorts because I do love sex.
I'm very positive about it.
And this is very different from what they are exposed to.
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
And I think someone coming from a non-Asian culture now living a decade in an Asian culture,
it is to the max here in terms of the modesty and not talking about sex and being sexually
inhibited.
I mean, that I feel like describes a great deal of what I at least experienced in Singapore.
Do you think that Singapore is unique compared to other places or other clients that you
work with?
Yeah, I think that because I see Singapore as a little bit like New York, although New
York is so much more diversified.
So you get a little bit of everything and it's very difficult to put your pulse on what
Singaporeans are like per se because there are so many types of Singaporeans.
But I have to say the most inhibited people come to me and I do have a lot of clients
who choose to wait until marriage to have sex, both of them.
And they say, oh, it's because we're Asians.
So it is definitely very much the way they were brought up, the culture, the societal
messages that we are getting that is influencing how people behave.
But I think a lot of Singaporeans are changing because they do question themselves.
We are one of the most westernized countries in Asia.
We are one of the most educated.
Why are we still behaving like this towards sex?
So I do see a lot of changes that has happened, especially in the last five years in Singapore,
with a lot of different people coming forward wanting to be this or that influencer and
whatnot.
So yes, it's changing.
It's good to have more dialogue and it is definitely more positive.
Do you tend to find you get older couples maybe who haven't had a relationship with
each other for a long time trying to reignite something?
So I have a client who's probably in her fifties and she got asked about her sexual health
and she was just like, well, it's been a while.
And she doesn't know how to, because they haven't had that kind of intimacy, she doesn't
know how to sort of bring it up.
How can someone approach that topic with their partner?
Like, it's been a few years.
How can you sort of reignite that passion again?
Yes, I do work with a lot of clients in long term committed relationship.
They can be in sexless marriages for some time and maybe they're just busy with their
work.
So it is really delicate to talk about something like this when it's become like this kind
of big elephant in the room and it becomes more of a topic that they just tiptoe around.
So it is really important to approach it with sensitivity.
So I often just ask them to start by expressing what they're feeling, just very gently to
their partner.
And it's not so easy to reignite something when both parties are not willing to put in
the effort because you can try things that are quite cliche, like put on lingerie.
And I have many people who put on lingerie and just prance around the room and get angry
that it doesn't work.
But that's just textbook, you know?
It needs to be consensual.
And they also need to know like, what are you doing this for?
Like are you wearing the lingerie or is the lingerie wearing you?
So it also has to do with your confidence and communication, like the intention behind
it so that your partner knows, okay, this is kind of what you have in mind versus like
just jumping onto them in that way.
It can also feel very violating.
And I think that's, you know, I think that's what's important to understand about what
you would do as a clinical sexologist is not only see what's happening in the sexual
relationship, right?
But understanding what they're trying to communicate to their partner, right?
Because she might have put on the lingerie thinking this is so obvious what I'm communicating
and it just falls on deaf ears because the other partner doesn't understand.
That's the issue with our culture as well, because a lot of them are not comfortable
talking about sex.
So they hint about it.
And I have so many people say, I didn't get it.
Oh, were you trying to do that?
I didn't know.
And then they get, they're upset with each other for like, for, you know, the weirdest
reasons.
Yeah, I think that's the thing.
I think men don't understand hints.
Like if you want something, you just got to do it.
I mean, yeah, the subtleties are often lost between the sexes.
In my work, I find myself becoming some kind of a translator because they don't understand
each other.
And so it may seem like, you know, I said the exact same thing, but when I paraphrase
it, they understand.
So yeah, I'm a translator.
I'm an interpreter.
I'm a mediator.
I am an educator.
I'm a teacher.
So yeah, many, many different hats.
So I like it because our work is so dynamic and we do have to be very sensitive with what
people are like and how they are feeling.
So I use a lot of my intuition.
Like no two clients are the same, even though they can be very similar.
And I have a lot of experience working with different couples and getting an idea of the
possible differences, but still everyone is still different.
So when you have somebody who you're saying start up a conversation with your partner,
but if they come from quite a modest background, they don't want to turn around and say, you
know, I'm in the mood.
What would be the correct way or the easiest way to start that conversation?
I think sometimes it might be like, I don't know, I'm feeling randy.
What would you say?
Yeah, I do have clients who are very shy about it.
So we talked through this during sessions, either with them or as a couple.
How would you like your partner to approach you?
I'll get them to kind of brainstorm and something as simple as text them.
You can text them and say, have some code words.
So if you are afraid of speaking directly, it can be indirect still, but you need to
be clear.
So something like maybe we can have some private time after we put the kids to bed, things
like that.
What is it?
Sexy text.
Well, and this brings me to one of the questions I'm dying to ask you.
Right.
So, OK, so I want to throw down some sexy text because I'm very cool still here, you know,
almost age 41.
But there is now new language around sex and dating.
This is not the old kind of sexting that maybe we had back in the 90s with our Blackberries.
Talk to me about what are these new Gen Z lingoes for sex?
And is there even a place for that type of talk within our 40 plus community?
Of course, I think we need to be aware of what's happening so that we can better understand,
first of all, the world, then maybe your kids.
Stay relevant.
I hear you.
So, yeah, like walk fishing is one that you interested in.
Wait, wait, wait.
What is it?
Walk fishing.
OK, this is a pop quiz, Jasmine.
What do you think that possibly is?
Walk fishing.
OK, so I'm going to ask you a question.
So, what is, Jasmine, what do you think that possibly is?
Walk fishing.
OK, because I do know now what it is because I watch your thing.
Tell me what you think that is.
I have absolutely no idea.
Walk fishing.
What the hell?
Relative to relationship.
I won't say sex and sex, but relationships.
People will call themselves walk.
You know, walk.
Actually.
Like being walk.
No.
Bless your heart.
I feel really old right now.
Can someone fill me in?
Being walk is being, I would say, excessively politically correct.
Oh, OK.
So like very, you know, aware of kind of what, you know, your pronouns to use.
Yeah, that's definitely not me.
So walk fishing.
I'll let you explain.
Yeah, walk fishing is when you pretend to be walk to get more partners, to get laid.
To get laid.
Wow.
Yeah.
I'm definitely not that.
And how about NATO dating or N.A.T.?
Is it NATO?
NATO.
Yeah, I believe it's no action or talk or something.
Yeah.
Oh, OK.
Wow.
Is there like a dictionary?
Because I feel like I need to up my linga.
Yeah.
Martha's Instagram is dictionary number one.
OK.
Yeah, there are different terms that I think most of us should know.
Things like ghosting, stonewalling.
I know that one.
So you're not as old as you think.
No, I don't know that one.
Flooding.
What is that one?
When your partner is interested in you and trying to give you all kinds of attention
very quickly.
But you kind of don't want like it's like you're over.
Too much.
Love bombing.
I've had love bombing.
Yeah.
Flooding is when you talk too much.
How interesting.
I don't pull names on it.
Is this all in text?
Is this in text or is this like just a general thing?
Like they come at you too much.
Like it doesn't necessarily, it's not exclusive to the phone communication.
It could be also in person.
Gives attention.
So many things.
I think that's their way to super express the relationship so that they can get what
they want.
And these people may have narcissistic tendencies where they then play on it by withdrawing
their affection.
Interesting.
Okay.
So that can be kind of symbolic of a pattern perhaps that you should be aware of.
Well, so that kind of backs it up then.
So besides obviously, you know, helping us understand Gen Z lingo and, you know, helping
the couples that you work with, what's a day in the life for you?
So when you wake up in the morning, what is a clinical sexologist doing with her day?
And I expect sex to be in there somewhere.
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And now back to the conversation.
Yeah, every day is different depending on what I have going on.
Like today I have a podcast and I have a meeting.
Then I have, yeah, I'm being interviewed to be a court witness.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah, different things.
Then I have social time.
So I think the busiest days will be the weekends for me where I have lots of clients one after
another.
So what I try to do is I try to group my activities like what you all do as well in your life.
You try to group it because once you're in the flow, it's much easier.
Even though I can have anywhere between one to seven clients in a day.
But yeah, you group them and then you just kind of go with the flow.
And I think one of the reasons that we wanted to have you on the podcast today was because
the clients that you are working with on the weekends that you're seeing back to back,
you expressed that you do a lot of work with midlife women, right?
And women that are going through paramenopause and menopausal changes.
Can you talk to us about your participation in the midlife sex festival and what that
was like?
Okay, it was really about paramenopause and menopause because this is the topic that Dr.
Claire was interested in.
So Dr. Claire is an oncologist, gynae, and because of my work with Singapore Cancer Society,
I'm their sexologist.
So I do have quite a number of clients who have cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer,
different kinds of cancer.
So they would go into menopause and so that's that intersection.
So I did a session on that.
But they had other things as well like nutrition and other topics.
What are the common, I don't want to say complaints, let's say presenting issues that you're seeing
from women in their 40s.
Like when you have that target age group, what are the reasons they're coming to see
you?
Well, because for me, I only approach it from the perspective of sex.
So for them, it usually is a low sex drive or no sex drive and dryness, painful sex.
So usually I pretty much cover the same things again and again, like what they can do using
lubricants, vaginal moisturizer, going to a doctor for maybe HRT.
I don't necessarily am against it because I think it's more about having an educated
decision, informed decision about the different options so that you have the best quality
of life possible.
Have you had clients where you're thinking, okay, maybe this woman needs HRT to kind of
reignite her sex drive.
She goes and does it and then it works like where it's like, wow, that was really the
missing link.
Yes, yes, of course.
But I've also met people who have gone on HRT testosterone replacement therapy and it
also doesn't work for them because sex is so much more than just physical.
It has a lot to do with your mind body connection, the way you think about sex, the way you feel
about yourself, the way you relate with your partner, so many different dimensions.
So I don't focus so much on the medical side because I'm not a medical doctor.
What I do is I focus very much on how they think, how they feel and how their relationship
is like.
I feel like stress seems to be one of the big sort of interplays when it comes to how
your relationship is with your partner.
Like a man will come home and if he's stressed, he has sex, he might feel better.
But a woman comes home, if she's stressed, she doesn't want to have sex.
So how do you sort of incorporate that into your practice so that people feel that they're
still having a meaningful relationship but they're not feeling obliged to serve the other
partner almost?
I think you're so right because this happens all the time.
They don't get it.
It's like a duck and chicken talking.
They just don't get each other.
So I have to step in and kind of soothe things out a little bit and try to get them to understand
one another.
So it can be challenging.
It is really important to also teach them around consent because just because you are
married, it doesn't mean that you have to give sex every single time your partner asks
for it.
So the amount of pressure, the amount of guilt and also the amount of abuse that actually
is happening where there's tantrums that are being thrown and even threat of violence.
So it is really, really scary for women.
So I'm not sure whether there's really a best way to navigate this.
I think it's different for different people because it really depends on how understanding
your partner is willing to be.
I think it's really important to be an advocate of yourself, to use stories or analogies to
describe what you're feeling so that your partner has more empathy.
Because a lot of people, they just say no and they don't say why and then they say no
all the time and then the partner tries different things and it's always a no.
So we also have to understand the way they're thinking, which is what can I do to make things
better.
I think a lot of women just don't ask for what can make things better.
They just say no.
And I think this can be a little bit TMI, so get ready everybody.
And if you are my husband listening, turn it off.
I think an example of that was going through childbirth.
And for the first time ever, I did not want my husband anywhere near my breast.
I was like, this is literally like barbed wire.
Like you cannot touch.
And it was so hard for him to wrap his mind around the fact that something that was immediately
pleasurable before was so much the opposite now.
Because men will never experience that.
Where something that was pleasurable for them, it just turns off and changes.
But it goes through changes because of the hormones and also your breastfeeding.
It's overstimulated and it just feels, you know, I have clients who say that, you know,
they feel like they need something for themselves.
Yeah, exactly.
It's really, really OK.
You just need to be able to better explain that to them.
And that's the thing.
So now I want to give him a shout out now if he is still listening, is that then, you
know, he was very receptive to the understanding that it's temporary for me.
It's obviously related to this thing called breastfeeding.
It's not you.
And that, you know, for now we have to explore different ways.
And he was super open to that.
But I think the conversation at first was hard and scary.
And having someone like you there in the room, I could see how that could really help couples
negotiate those conversations that are that feel weird.
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Now back to the chat.
Yeah, my clients are amazed and I'm also amazed how much they start to review as they feel
safe because a lot of times they start talking to each other and they get interrupted and
they get emotional.
So when they have someone like me who's like a mediator making sure that both parties get
to say both sides of their story, then it becomes much clearer.
So they actually say, you know, just one session with me actually saves them like years of
possible grief.
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
And I think, you know, so the topic of, you know, breastfeeding and breast and stuff,
that's something that is kind of on the woman, right?
The onus is on us to talk about it because the men would never know that it was happening.
But what I love about your work is that you also go in deep on some of the male issues
like premature ejaculation, male infertility, male chauvinism, which is obviously something
that can come between the ability to sexually communicate correctly.
How do you kind of get men talking?
Because I think that's a tough one.
Yeah.
So the thing is, I was actually surprised when I started my practice that I actually
for a start had more men than women because a lot of men actually feel comfortable with
women.
They projected that quality onto me thinking that, oh, I'm going to be, you know, very
gentle with them.
Although over the years, you show a Martha.
Over the years I've learned to be more gentle for sure because I really get that not everybody
sees life the way I see it.
Yes.
So I very soon realized that even though I actually feel quite unsafe putting myself
out there working with men and women, it was really important because I cannot in all fairness
say that I love women and I want to help women and then I don't help the partner.
So I actually keep working with the men because I also realized that there are men who are
being abused and being badly treated by their partners and they needed to find voice and
get support as well.
So over the years, I really have become an advocate of men because they are precious.
They are beautiful.
They take a lot of pride in providing and being the hero.
And I think there's a lot of miscommunication happening with couples where they just don't
understand each other.
They are trying to express their love but are not able to understand.
So it's really important to get to the root of it for a lot of them.
I think that's the thing, isn't it?
You can't help one side of the couple.
You need to be able to help both because otherwise then you might have a female who'd be like,
right, I'm ready.
I'm ready to have sex.
If the other guy is not quite ready, then it's only 50% of the equation and you still
don't have that balance that you need.
What I wanted to actually ask was that do you find now you have women who have this
romanticized, romantic comedy idea of what love and sex and relationship is like, then
you have men who watch porn and have their idea of what sex should be like.
Is there almost like a mismatch between the two in terms of what they're expecting from
their sexual relationship?
Definitely.
I think we are very much influenced by the media, by the porn we watch.
So it is happening.
So this is where I come in and let them know this is what men think, this is what women
think, this is how you communicate with a man.
One of the tips about working, speaking with your partner who is a man is never ever raise
your voice, never ever shout.
I think it really affects them a lot more than women realize.
And I think a lot of women also think that just because your partner looks like they
are not listening or your partner seems to have a poker face, that it didn't get into
your partner, but in reality they can have a very sensitive soul.
And so they do not realize how much damage they are doing to their partner through the
repetition, the nagging, the flooding.
So this is one of the biggest ones that I keep seeing women doing.
And I can imagine that.
I definitely have been guilty of losing my shit on my partner before and I can tell that
it wounds him for like much longer than I would intend.
Much longer than if it had been done to you.
Yes, exactly.
Oh yeah, no worries, rolls off my back.
No, I'm just kidding.
I feel like I'm the opposite though.
Really?
If I get upset by him, I do the silent treatment, like I can't talk, I go quiet.
And I think that affects him even more because it's like, oh shit, she's not talking.
What have I done?
Yeah, opposite attract.
So you will often find partners, couples who have these kinds of tendencies because one
person in the relationship needs more space.
That makes total sense.
How do you ensure that when your clients are with you, that they have safety and they have
privacy?
Because I do think that like one of the reasons that maybe people don't seek out help is because
they think it'll get out, right?
The conversation will somehow leak.
How do you ensure safety and privacy?
Yeah, so the thing is people always assume or maybe I don't know why.
The thing is, as counselors, we do have our code of ethics.
We have to ensure privacy, confidentiality of our clients, which is the reason why whenever
the media contacts me, I almost never share any stories of my clients, but I can talk
about them in general.
So never a specific client.
So yeah, they do worry about it, but actually we have to abide by our code of ethics as
counselors.
So I'm not sure what I can say to convince people.
This is one of the reasons why I put out a lot of content about my work so that people
can become more informed and feel safer about getting support because it's such a personal
private topic.
So unfortunately, I am actually seeing a lot of people having an issue for a very, very
long time and really on the verge of divorce, separation, and sometimes it's too little,
too late because they just don't want to try anymore.
Talking about separation and divorce, some couples may experience infidelity, especially
if the husband has needs that are not being satisfied, I guess.
I read actually on one of the Expat Women Forum groups that her husband cheated on her
and she actually still wanted to remain in the relationship.
How can you come back from that?
If there has been infidelity, how can you come back from that experience to maybe even
make your sex life stronger?
Is there a way?
Can you come back from it?
Yeah, so actually cheating is much more common than people think and actually a lot more
people than we think actually choose to stay in the marriage.
And what happens, I noticed, is a lot of men, they just want to move on.
If they want cheating, they just want to move on.
They just want the partner to forget about it.
If this happens, you just repress your emotions.
Actually it comes out in other ways.
And then the body actually does not want to have sex.
So it's really important to get to the root of why actually did it happen and can you
get stronger because of it rather than let this tear you apart.
And often there are multiple reasons why this happened.
And so to be able to admit a lot of times is emotional neglect.
A lot of times is being emotionally unavailable.
So it's important to talk about those things.
So it's not as simple as, oh, let's just have sex quickly.
We need to address the underlying issues.
Yeah, I mean, you can have sex and then you think that you are recovered or whatever.
But actually that's not the case.
And do you think that seeing someone, so seeing a sexologist, for example, is kind of a necessary
step for couples that have had infidelity?
Yeah, I think we can definitely help because I have experience helping clients to unpack
all this and put in the foundational blocks again so that the relationship gets stronger
and even better.
It is also important to process your emotions separate of your partner who cheated on you
because a lot of times they just feel so much anger, rage and injustice and they want revenge.
And sometimes it's not necessarily the best thing to keep renting at your partner because
they get so much of it and they start asking themselves, do I even really want to work
at it?
It just seems so hopeless.
So women have obviously roughly a 28 day cycle.
So their hormones do really affect their sex drive and usually sort of peak in the middle
of the cycle, whereas men have almost like a 24 hour hormonal cycle where they probably
want to have sex every day.
How do you manage that sort of interplay then between couples who maybe only feel like having
sex maybe two or three times out of the month in comparison to the men who want to have
sex all the time and they think that their wives are rejecting them because they're not
into it?
Like how can you sort of explain that to couples?
I think it's not true that men want sex all the time.
A lot of times they want what sex makes them feel, which is the closeness, the intimacy,
the feeling of being desired.
So even when you don't feel like having sex, it's really important to understand where
your partner is coming from.
Is it a physical need or is it an emotional need?
Being able to communicate how horny are you and then be able to navigate compromises or
options like how about I watch you masturbate tonight or how about I give you a hand job
instead or can we take out the toys?
Like there are actually many, many options that we can have.
I think a lot of people actually, if they could, they would like to have more sex than
they are.
It's a real thing that we are tired, we are stressed, we're exhausted.
There are life challenges involved.
So it's really important to have a partner who is actually engaged in the family life
instead of a partner who hides in the study room and souts and masturbates to porn.
I have had partners discover that their partner is masturbating to porn and then the partner
say what do you expect?
What was happening?
Look at what you're doing.
Look at how much you are not talking to me.
Look at how you are rejecting me.
What do you think was happening?
So a lot of women just really focus on the kids and they sometimes don't wake up until
it's too late.
I like that text idea though.
How horny are you?
1 to 10.
I'm taking notes for my sexy text.
So I am, again, I heard on another podcast actually that women need to sort of feel arousal
usually by engaging in the act whereas it takes them a bit of time to sort of get into
it whereas men I think can sort of I guess turn it on a lot quicker.
So how can you take that step?
So for example, would it be just maybe kissing her neck and then she might be like, oh actually
I am a bit horny or you know, is that something that you would recommend to the clients?
Maybe try and see if it leads somewhere or do you feel like a conversation should come
first but then if a conversation does come first maybe the lady or the wife or the woman
might not feel into the mood until she gets into the act?
I don't know if my question makes sense.
Yeah, it makes sense.
So does this thing called spontaneous versus responsive sexual desire?
So spontaneous people I would describe like a microwave, like they get aroused much more
quickly and then people with a responsive sexual desire, they need more stimulation
and it needs to be some kind of a physical stimulation.
What happens with a lot of people is they are tired so they are mentally not even receptive
to that and so it's really important to take care of your energy because your energy is
your life force energy and it actually affects everything and unfortunately a lot of women
are not very good at managing their time or their energy and so they don't have any energy
left for sex.
So it's really important to practice self-care and even then is also the openness to trying.
I have had clients, I know many people who actually say I don't feel like it, don't touch
me so they are not even open to that possibility of my body needs some time to respond.
Another thing is that the way men and women think about sex are really very different
because men think of sex as a goal, they think of it like what's the point of trying if I
am not guaranteed the results.
How can you say sex is a journey and it's a process and you're going to stop then why
would I even want to start something that I can't end?
So the way men and women think of it is indeed very different.
So it's really about educating each other where the other person is coming at and having
agreements that okay today we'll try it this way and today we'll try it your way.
So I'm definitely not someone who is for one way, I think that we need to be open to different
ways and different ways of living life and doing things but some people are really do
much better with routine and creatures of habit.
So it can be very challenging especially for men who have that tendency.
And I think it's funny as a coach, I think about outcome goals versus process goals and
so when you're too outcome oriented it can actually stop the process from happening,
right?
That's kind of what you're describing here.
And a lot of women want to enjoy the process and a lot of men do well with having clear
outcomes.
So this is one of the reasons why coaching needs to feel good for women.
Yeah darn right.
Well what do you think so okay so we've talked about kind of what it takes to get into sex,
you know how you communicate with your partner about sex.
What are some of the taboos though that people are still not ready to talk about?
I think we talked about low sex drive and not wanting to have sex.
I think a lot of people have difficulties to basically speak up and say like hey I'm
not having sex like here's the reality.
And then or hint and then like don't say why and things like that.
So yeah I mean you know I always think of like sex in the city right set in the American
context right where it's like these four women that incessantly talk about sex with each
other with other people one of them is writing a column about it right like it's like very
very out there.
Are there is that community a myth in Singapore?
Are there women out there talking about sex?
I think the younger generation there are some groups trying to form these kind of communities.
I'm also trying to form one.
I signed a contract with Sex Positive World in US so I'm trying to start a Sex Positive
World community in Singapore.
Tell us about that what does that mean?
So basically I wanted to create a community where people have certain training around
consent and boundaries and we are just a group of people who know that sex is a positive
thing and we want to have positive attitudes about sex and not judge other people for whatever
lifestyle that they choose to be in or whatever sexual activities they choose to be in and
so it's like an inclusive community where we it's like a social club that I'm trying
to create where people feel safe because I think as you get older you lose friends to
marriage to babies and people leave people die all these things and so sometimes you
get lonely and you don't know like how to make friends or where to go and make friends
who have who have certain guidelines of basically respect so I wanted to create this social
club for that reason.
So I think there are different kinds of communities popping up here and there different support
groups different like reading circle whatnot I think it's all good because different people
vibe with different activities and things.
I was just wondering do you find that in especially in sort of in the Asian culture in Singapore
it's almost like taboo if you are having sex and then taboo if you're not having sex and
you can't win.
Which is the reason why I often get asked like what's the normal frequency of sex, what
is the healthy frequency.
I think it's really up to the individual if there's no distress then there's no issue
a lot of times it is because one person in the relationship is not happy and sometimes
if your partner wants to have a lot more sex than the other person you also have to look
at is this like is this really because they have a high sex trial or is it because they
have other challenges going on like clients with other mental health issues like depression
or ADHD or OCD or things like that that actually may cause them to want to put that onto their
partner.
Let's say that you've got a couple who are both open to communicating with each other
what would you say your top three tips to really sort of get it all going off like you
know what would you recommend?
Well if they are really open to everything it would be good to have at least some time
to talk about can you give me feedback about the way we are communicating with each other.
I think a lot of couples talk talk talk they communicate they think they communicate well
but pretty much every single couple that I've worked with they never ask for feedback about
the way they are communicating with each other.
That would be the first one is that way that I can talk to you in a way that will work
better for you would be the first.
Then the second would be maybe come up with a sex bucket list come up with your desires
what are some of the things that you've always wanted to try haven't had a chance to try
why are we waiting you know at what point can we can we make some time for these things
to happen what can we do to make things happen and maybe you need to save money to make some
of these things happen but if you don't start talking about it then of course it will never
happen.
Yeah pen to paper.
The third one is always be open minded be curious and maybe learn together.
I know people who are like oh yeah you know send their partner to me for this or that
workshop but it really is a missed opportunity if they don't attend it together because they
can talk about what they what they learn and then they can continue processing it even
after the workshop which is not possible if only one person attends it.
Yeah because then you spend half the time just talking about what happened at the workshop
before you can even get to how it applies to your relationship.
What happened at the workshop that you were not there at.
Yeah that you were not there at exactly but I'm paraphrasing probably quite terribly for
you.
Just going back to that sex bucket list it reminds me of this meme I saw on Instagram
it was if you could have you know let's make a list of the five people we're allowed to
have sex with and you won't object to so the woman puts down I don't know like Johnny Depp
Brad Pitt you know and George Clooney and a few other famous people and then the husband
puts down his sister her best friend.
So beware take caution with the sex bucket list you know listeners this may not turn
out as you want.
No well so we are running out of time here Dr. Martha and we've loved having you on and
the question that we ask each and every one of our guests right and coming from your area
of expertise what is your 40s formula what are you telling women in their 40s about what
you do to help them thrive and feel best in this decade.
I think the first thing I would say for women in their 40s and I am in my 40s I'm 48.
Wow you look amazing.
It helps when you haven't had kids.
Fair enough fair point listeners.
Judge us less harshly.
So the first one is don't be embarrassed to get things to help you with your sex life
whether it's lubricants whether it's sex toys don't be embarrassed with that because we
use devices to help us have an easier life.
Why do we think it will be otherwise in this area in our life.
I think that would be the biggest one then the next one is the moment you feel something
is off with your body be very first of all be very aware but the moment you feel something
is different something has shifted something is affecting you distressing you get get support
sooner than later.
I think this is why men live longer when they're married because their wives are sensitive
to their changes and watches out for them and next to them make sure that they go to
a doctor but make sure you do that for yourself as well.
Yeah I think that would be the second one.
The third one is I cannot emphasize this enough we give so much to people it's really important
that we take care of ourselves.
I came across this YouTube video that said this and it's kind of my favorite phrase at
the moment.
Men don't remember what you do for them men remember what you do for yourself.
It's lovely.
That is really really helpful and again you know you said about getting the support you
need give yourself the care that you need and don't be ashamed about it right and I
think that can apply to so many different areas of our 40s.
So thank you so much for joining us today Martha it's been awesome talking to you.
Thanks for having me.
It's been great thank you.
This is Paul our editor.
He's a 25 year old unmarried Singaporean guy listening to the ramblings of 12 older women
on everything from menopause to weightlifting to sex.
So Paul what's your thoughts on today's conversation?
Hey what's up Paul here.
So Martha you know I really could relate when you mentioned being in an Asian culture like
Singapore you know where people don't actually talk about sex you know people think it's
like a taboo you know because of the way we're brought up the culture the conservative societal
messages that influence how we behave and perceive it I guess as negative but that isn't
really true and I think what you're doing is really cool you know you know the part
where you mentioned about the analogy as a translator to help couples that understand
each other you know I really could relate to it because I'm actually a music therapist
in training and having the idea of helping clients express their feelings and understand
who they are you know in my case well in relation to music as a means of therapy you know I
think it's really cool so you know keep it up I love what you're doing and you know hope
to catch you in the next one.
See ya.
Guys you know how much we love coffee and if you want to show us some love you know
you can get us one.
Just visit buymeacoffee.com slash the 40s formula.
Cheers.
Gizzy man left us this review.
All the episodes are making me fact check the supplements I'm taking love the detailed
discussion with real life people talking about their experiences just makes it more interesting
and relatable.
Thank you so much Gizzy we try to keep it real as much as possible here and we're going
to keep that real life discussion coming to you and our seasons to come.
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Bye.
I'll see you next week.
How do you prefer do you prefer to be Dr. Lee, Dr. Martha Tara Lee, Dr. Martha Lee?
Doesn't matter.
Okay.
I always feel this like the same way.
I was like, is it Cheryl Cam, Cheryl Cam?
I don't want to say American accent is very Tara.
Yeah, because you would say Tara, I would say Tara.
And I think that's the accent thing.
It's totally the accent thing.
Doesn't matter.
Am I speaking too loud?
Are you Singaporean?
Okay.
So I do feel like Singaporeans are way more chill about getting mispronounced that we're
like it terrifies me to think about mispronouncing a name.
Actually, I don't like it.
My husband's used to it every day.
So my son's name is Kaian.
It's spelled K-Y-A-N.
And everyone calls him Kian.
And then I'm like, it's Ryan with a K, you know, I'm constantly.
That's not bad though.
That is very helpful.
Yeah.
And then I kind of feel like you need to correct somebody if it's being mispronounced, but
he's just like, oh, it's fine.
I'm like, he is not your name.
Don't let them call you that.
I was formerly fat to you.
You're still not formally athletic.
True.
Formally athletic and now on the decline.
Definitely not now.