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Yeah, I mean, I don't know, but I've seen the pictures.

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I mean, they're sold in stores.

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People will often ask their kids to go to the store and be like,

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yeah, choose which cane you want.

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Are they still sold in stores?

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Okay, this is a big debate in our household because I'm convinced they are not sold anymore.

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But where do you go? Where do you get your... not you.

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You win a cane.

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Where are canes commonly sold?

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Like on the street, like the shops.

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Like the mom and pop shops?

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Underneath, like the HDB flats.

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A lot of shops.

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Yeah, even like if you go to a hardware store, you're going to find canes like hanging up,

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different colored handles.

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When can I get me one of these?

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I'm like, I'm shocked.

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I'm literally here in my American shock and Jasmine's like, wait a second.

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I need three.

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Hello and welcome to the 40s Formula,

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your go-to place for insightful discussions on navigating your 40s

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and thriving in this transformative decade.

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We're your hosts, Amanda and Jasmine,

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two women that are passionate about exploring the challenges and adventures

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that come with turning 40 and what lies ahead.

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Kelly Tay is a mom of two, a respectful parenting coach,

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and the founder of Juicy Parenting.

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She's best known for teaching Asian parents how to drop the cane,

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stop the yelling, and actually enjoy parenthood.

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With the vast majority of respectful parenting resources coming from the US and UK,

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Kelly's distinctly Asian point of view makes her a unique voice in the space.

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Prior to this career pivot, Kelly spent a decade in financial writing,

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first as a journalist with the Business Times,

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and then as chief editor at DBS Bank's Chief Investment Office.

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And while Kelly continues to submit written commentary for Singapore's leading newspapers,

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she also now applies her rigorous research skills to her parental coaching,

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giving her clients evidence-based strategies

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to raise their children with compassion and respect.

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So Kelly Tay is here with us today,

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and I have to address the elephant in the room,

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which is that Kelly and I are actually neighbors.

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We live on the same street and we see each other almost every single day,

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but that's not how we met.

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We actually met because we were following each other on Instagram,

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and then we later realized that our sons had been in kitty class together,

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and again, we were across the street neighbors,

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so I'm so glad that I finally had the chance to chat with you in person.

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Thank you.

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Thank you for having me, and it's just such a proof that Singapore is such a small country.

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Oh my gosh, the smallest.

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I remember following you being like,

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wait, are you that Amanda?

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Something is familiar here.

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Thank you for having me.

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Yeah, no, thank you for being here.

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And again, back to Instagram, right?

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I love your tagline.

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I help Asians stop hitting their kids.

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That's about the best vouch for a coach that I could ever hear about.

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And you know, I'm an Ang Mo.

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I married into a Singaporean Chinese family.

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I definitely see a diversity of parenting styles just not only within my family,

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but within the generations in my family because we live in a multi-generational home.

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And I'm wondering how you define Asian parenting.

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Like, what does that even mean to you?

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Yeah, so Asian parenting, let's talk about the good.

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I think Asian parents are very well known for physically providing for the kids very well,

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financially providing for the kids really well.

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What they're not so good at though is the emotional aspect, right?

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Validating emotions, helping people express and process emotions,

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not just the good ones, but also the difficult ones that we're not so good at.

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And being emotionally available for kids, not so good at that.

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And I think when you think about traditional Asian parenting,

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oftentimes it's very harsh.

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It's characterized by very punitive discipline.

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And you know, it's not just words, but it's also caning.

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Like in Singapore, there's like rattan cane, you know, really...

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Yeah, I mean, I don't know, but I've seen the pictures.

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I mean, they're sold in stores.

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People will often ask their kids to go to the store and be like,

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yeah, choose which cane you want.

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Wait, are they still sold in stores?

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Okay, this is a big debate in our household because I'm convinced they are not sold anymore.

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But where do you go? Where do you get your... not you.

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You win a cane.

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Where are canes commonly sold?

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Like on the street, like the shops.

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Like the mom and pop shops?

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Underneath, like the HDB flats.

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A lot of shops. Yeah.

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Even like if you go to a hardware store, you're going to find canes

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like hanging up different colored handles.

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And then you can decide...

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Where can I get me one of these?

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I'm like, I'm shocked.

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I'm literally here in my American shock and Jasmine's like, wait a second.

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You know.

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I'm Indian.

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And so we kind of, we get that.

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I'm British Indian, so I also get the emotional side.

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But sometimes, oh my God, my kids do my nutting.

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And I'm just like, I really want to slap you right now.

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I won't even say it.

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I'm not going to because it obviously, they do drive me nuts.

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How can you stop yourself from, you know, getting to that point with your kids?

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Because they don't fucking listen.

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Yeah, I hear you.

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So on the not listening, what I always tell my clients is that we say they're not listening.

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But actually what we mean is they're not complying.

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They're not doing what we want them to do.

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I guarantee you they're listening.

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They know what they're doing.

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It's not okay with you.

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They know what your boundary is.

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They're just having a hard time complying with that boundary.

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And that for us is very, very triggering.

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And so for your question of how do I stop myself from hitting my kids, like I got cain

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as a kid, very common in Singapore.

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And what I always remind myself of is what do I want to teach my kid at the end of the

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day?

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And if I'm hitting, I'm teaching them that if someone pisses you off, go ahead, hit them

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back.

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Violence is the solution, right?

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And it's very funny.

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You know, oftentimes we're yelling at our kids, we're saying, stop shouting.

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But we're shouting.

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It goes nowhere because we're essentially telling them to do not do the thing that we

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are doing.

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And so I always kind of bring it back to what do I want to teach my kids in this moment?

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What enduring lesson am I trying to provide?

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And do I want them to solve their problems with violence, with icing someone out?

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It doesn't have to be physical violence.

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Can be emotional neglect.

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It can be saying, you know what, I'm not talking to you until blah, blah, blah.

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And I just kind of catch myself.

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I don't do it all the time.

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I'm not perfect.

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You know, I teach this stuff and it's still hard for me.

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And I think it's good to recognize that and to normalize that.

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Like we are all humans.

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Like this thing I tell my clients, like we're humans, we're not robots.

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You are allowed to make mistakes.

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What's important is what do you do after?

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Can you repair well?

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That's really crucial to me.

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Hey Amanda, do you know of a really easy way to give your kids some good gut bacteria?

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I do indeed.

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I'm giving my family a Keezy Wellness Elderberry Boost.

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They come in these little sachets.

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You just rip them open, pour it right in your mouth.

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That sounds like fun.

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And I bet I could add that to their smoothies and some Greek yogurt too.

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And what I love about a Keezy is that you can take it any time of day and there's a

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product for all ages, even my 12 week old little guy.

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A Keezy believe that food is medicine so you know the products are clean and have no gums

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and fillers.

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They also take a science forward approach and include pre, post, probiotics as well

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as polyphenols.

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And the best thing is you can get 15% off full price items with free delivery when you

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use code 40s at checkout for any purchases in Singapore from their website at KeezyWellness.com.

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And don't forget to check out their new A Keezy Berry and A Keezy Tropical Flavours too.

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Now back to the chat.

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So I think when we talk about Asian parenting, what comes to mind is generally quite harsh,

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quite punitive.

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And so you know that tagline, I help Asian parents stop hitting their kids.

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People often have a very visceral reaction to it.

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So recently I had a talk at Google.

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I was invited to speak to mums over there.

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And the person who was organising it, she was like, can we tone this down a little?

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Like when we introduce you, can we not use hitting kids?

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And so we had a conversation about that, about how, you know, at the end of the day, we have

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to call the spade a spade.

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You know, it's important because this is how we move forward.

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This is how we make changes.

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If we continue just hiding behind euphemisms and things are not as bad as they are, no,

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they're bad.

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When we boil it down, we are hitting our kids.

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That's not okay, right?

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If you switch kids with spouse, that's not okay.

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You can't hit your spouse, right?

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Like you'll go to jail, but you can hit your kids.

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And why?

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Why the double standard?

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Because they're younger, because they can't fight back.

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Why?

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And so I think that conversation is important to have.

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And it's difficult to have because it is so ingrained in Asian culture, so ingrained.

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And lots of times people tell you, but I got a cane, I'm fine.

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What, you know?

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So it is hard, but it is a conversation we have to have.

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And that's why I've been stubborn about keeping that tagline that I help Asian parents stop

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hitting their kids.

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Yeah.

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Well, some of us love it.

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All right.

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I'm all over your page because of that tagline.

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But you sit on something that's always confounding to me, right?

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So you've got this generational thing of the punitive discipline and the hitting the kids

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and the caning.

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And it's like, but then you've also got this Asian concept of filial piety.

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Yeah.

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Where it's like, you don't question the elders and you make sure that you are obeying.

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How do you help break through the generational cycle of the hitting, but also maintaining

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the respect?

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Because I think that's where a lot of people's stopping point is.

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Yeah, for sure.

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I think, you know, with filial piety, one thing I want to make clear is that I love

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the concept.

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I think in its essence, in its true form, I love it.

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And it's all about honoring our elders, respecting them, appreciating them.

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That no problems with.

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I think it's great.

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Long may it continue.

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What I have an issue with is when people say that that then means you cannot disagree with

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your elders.

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Even respectfully, it's not okay to say something different.

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It's not okay to choose something different.

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Then what happens is you have entire generations of people who are just doing what they're

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parents expect them to do and want them to do.

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But inside feeling very resentful, the parent-child relationship, even in adult stage, is crumbling.

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It's not authentic.

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And so that really doesn't serve anyone.

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It doesn't serve the elders.

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They don't have the relationship they want with their kids.

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It doesn't serve the people who are now adults because they're not living the life they want

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to lead.

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And they're not parenting the way they want to.

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And so I think the other component of filial piety is this idea of obligation, where I

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am obliged to listen to you, to agree with everything you say, to say and to do what

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you want me to do.

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But I think that's really tricky, right?

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Because at the end of the day, why do we want our kids to obey us out of obligation?

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I want my kids to come and move along with the direction that I have set out because

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they want to, because they see the wisdom in it, because they see me as a supportive

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leader, not because they're like, oh, mother said so I have to do it.

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So I think that concept of filial piety is always very tricky to me.

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It feels very transactional.

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It's like, because I've done all these things for you, you now have to do all these things

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for me.

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And I'm like, well, yes, I agree.

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Wouldn't it be nice if our kids did do all the lovely things for us?

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But the key difference is because they want to, not because they feel obliged to.

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And I think about Chinese New Year.

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I think about Raya recently happened.

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And you know, people are often like, I hate going to these things.

246
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I hate seeing my elders.

247
00:10:56,300 --> 00:10:58,340
They're going to ask me intrusive questions.

248
00:10:58,340 --> 00:10:59,980
They're going to push my boundaries.

249
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But I can't do anything about it.

250
00:11:01,900 --> 00:11:04,700
And when I think about that, I always feel it's such a shame.

251
00:11:04,700 --> 00:11:10,220
What if we could have an authentic relationship with our elders where there was mutual respect,

252
00:11:10,220 --> 00:11:13,860
where we didn't just say, OK, I'm just going to like quietly take this and then inside

253
00:11:13,860 --> 00:11:14,860
be ragey?

254
00:11:14,860 --> 00:11:15,860
Yes.

255
00:11:15,860 --> 00:11:18,120
Like what example are we then setting for our kids?

256
00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:19,820
So I would love to envision a world.

257
00:11:19,820 --> 00:11:24,440
I would love if my kids, you know, 20 years from now came back for Chinese New Year because

258
00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:25,440
they wanted to.

259
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,340
And because they love spending time with me.

260
00:11:27,340 --> 00:11:30,260
And I also want to be clear on the Asian parenting bit.

261
00:11:30,260 --> 00:11:34,420
When I talk about Asian parenting, a lot of times people then extrapolate that I'm saying

262
00:11:34,420 --> 00:11:36,840
Western parenting has all the answers.

263
00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,380
And I want to be clear that it is fruitless, right, to kind of pit the two against each

264
00:11:40,380 --> 00:11:41,380
other.

265
00:11:41,380 --> 00:11:42,380
For one, they're not monolithic.

266
00:11:42,380 --> 00:11:43,380
There are similarities.

267
00:11:43,380 --> 00:11:45,780
But, you know, not all Asian parents are the same.

268
00:11:45,780 --> 00:11:46,780
Some don't hit their kids.

269
00:11:46,780 --> 00:11:49,380
Not all Western parents are the same.

270
00:11:49,380 --> 00:11:51,260
Some do hit their kids.

271
00:11:51,260 --> 00:11:53,060
So they are separate.

272
00:11:53,060 --> 00:11:54,700
We're not pitting the two against each other.

273
00:11:54,700 --> 00:11:55,700
I'm not comparing.

274
00:11:55,700 --> 00:11:57,260
I'm not saying this is better, that is better.

275
00:11:57,260 --> 00:12:01,540
I'm saying let's look at Asian parenting, what it traditionally is, and how we can redefine

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00:12:01,540 --> 00:12:06,260
that in a modern age where we don't have to be punitive and harsh and hit our kids in

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order to raise successful kids.

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And I think the tragedy of all of this is that, in my view, Asian parents are kick-ass.

279
00:12:13,700 --> 00:12:14,700
Kick-ass.

280
00:12:14,700 --> 00:12:19,080
Like we are willing to do what it takes to give our kids a leg up.

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You know, we will sacrifice stuff.

282
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We will turn our lives around for them.

283
00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:27,420
We will literally give them all the financial resources and keep very little for ourselves,

284
00:12:27,420 --> 00:12:28,420
right?

285
00:12:28,420 --> 00:12:32,220
So, Gal, I was balancing the books on our family budget the other day and I realised…

286
00:12:32,220 --> 00:12:33,860
You're spending too much on workout clothes?

287
00:12:33,860 --> 00:12:35,700
Oh, yes, that is also true.

288
00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:39,140
But also the fact that we're not spending as much as we used to on the high quality

289
00:12:39,140 --> 00:12:41,660
meat and produce since we switched over to the Meat Club.

290
00:12:41,660 --> 00:12:45,660
The Meat Club's commitment to removing unnecessary costs but ensuring top quality meat is the

291
00:12:45,660 --> 00:12:47,540
main reason why we stick with them too.

292
00:12:47,540 --> 00:12:52,020
Their founder, Amy Bell, was a lot like you and I, struggling to find good quality produce

293
00:12:52,020 --> 00:12:53,980
at good prices here in Singapore.

294
00:12:53,980 --> 00:12:55,680
And that's why she started the Meat Club.

295
00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:59,340
And the commitment to that genuine savings is still at the heart of the business.

296
00:12:59,340 --> 00:13:03,820
And as an added treat, our listeners can get $12 off their first order by using discount

297
00:13:03,820 --> 00:13:04,820
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298
00:13:04,820 --> 00:13:11,020
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299
00:13:11,020 --> 00:13:15,780
And don't forget to follow The Meat Club on Instagram, at themeatclub.sg.

300
00:13:15,780 --> 00:13:18,780
And now, back to the chat.

301
00:13:18,780 --> 00:13:21,060
We have that drive and that desire to do better.

302
00:13:21,060 --> 00:13:23,060
I think we are great.

303
00:13:23,060 --> 00:13:27,300
And imagine if we could just augment that with a more compassionate way of parenting.

304
00:13:27,300 --> 00:13:31,260
Doesn't mean we have to be permissive, but more compassionate and bring that into parenting.

305
00:13:31,260 --> 00:13:34,420
I think we would be unstoppable if we could do that.

306
00:13:34,420 --> 00:13:35,640
I think that's brilliant.

307
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,900
And I feel like I get this kind of like conflict as well because you're talking about, you

308
00:13:39,900 --> 00:13:43,420
know, like respecting your elders and I feel like I get that from above.

309
00:13:43,420 --> 00:13:46,540
And then I'm seeing my kids, you know, I'm trying to teach them manners and, you know,

310
00:13:46,540 --> 00:13:47,760
be respectful.

311
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,600
And then they'll go to school and, you know, some kid will be like, what?

312
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,620
And I'll be like, oh, you know, it's pardon.

313
00:13:52,620 --> 00:13:56,260
But I can't say it's someone else's kid, you know, and then my kids pick it up.

314
00:13:56,260 --> 00:14:01,340
So, I mean, is there a way that you can kind of get your kids to understand, you know,

315
00:14:01,340 --> 00:14:06,660
like there is respect for your elders, but, you know, the way you talk to your friends

316
00:14:06,660 --> 00:14:10,640
is very different the way you talk to your elders and how do you sort of manage it so

317
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,260
that your kids are not picking up bad behaviors from other people?

318
00:14:13,260 --> 00:14:17,140
I mean, I feel like there's this whole sort of cobweb of things that you need to try to

319
00:14:17,140 --> 00:14:21,060
do and it's so tough to do it all, you know.

320
00:14:21,060 --> 00:14:24,180
It's very true and it's a very real thing, right?

321
00:14:24,180 --> 00:14:27,180
Influences from school or from peer groups that come into your home and that's like,

322
00:14:27,180 --> 00:14:28,180
no, I didn't sign up for that.

323
00:14:28,180 --> 00:14:29,180
I didn't teach you that.

324
00:14:29,180 --> 00:14:30,180
Yeah.

325
00:14:30,180 --> 00:14:33,140
I think what I try to tell my clients is just focus on what you can control.

326
00:14:33,140 --> 00:14:37,420
So you can't control what other kids are going to say and what your kid is going to be exposed

327
00:14:37,420 --> 00:14:38,420
to.

328
00:14:38,420 --> 00:14:41,960
What's really important is you can control at home what boundaries you set and what expectations

329
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:42,960
you set.

330
00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:48,100
If they come home with some what instead of pardon, then it can be, hey, I know you may

331
00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:50,700
be hearing these things at school and it's okay to experiment.

332
00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:54,420
I just want to let you know that a better way to say that is pardon.

333
00:14:54,420 --> 00:14:55,420
Let me tell you why.

334
00:14:55,420 --> 00:14:56,420
And then, you know, you can explain.

335
00:14:56,420 --> 00:15:00,700
But I think it's really important to not come in and be like, you say one more time, I bring

336
00:15:00,700 --> 00:15:01,700
the kid.

337
00:15:01,700 --> 00:15:06,500
I think it's really important to not go there because then it just becomes a power struggle.

338
00:15:06,500 --> 00:15:08,060
No one wins, right?

339
00:15:08,060 --> 00:15:09,820
In a power struggle, nobody wins.

340
00:15:09,820 --> 00:15:13,260
First is coming to it as, hey, I'm not seeing the worst in you.

341
00:15:13,260 --> 00:15:17,380
I'm not seeing you as coming in and deliberately being a little shit, right?

342
00:15:17,380 --> 00:15:19,220
I'm seeing you as you're curious.

343
00:15:19,220 --> 00:15:20,300
You picked up something.

344
00:15:20,300 --> 00:15:21,300
You're learning.

345
00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:22,340
You're testing the boundaries.

346
00:15:22,340 --> 00:15:23,460
Is this acceptable at home?

347
00:15:23,460 --> 00:15:24,700
What is mom going to say?

348
00:15:24,700 --> 00:15:27,300
And then mom comes in and says, yeah, this is what I believe.

349
00:15:27,300 --> 00:15:30,700
And that's really, really important because a lot of times parents feel, you know what,

350
00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:33,540
I have no control over this, so I'll just let it slide.

351
00:15:33,540 --> 00:15:35,340
No, do not let it slide.

352
00:15:35,340 --> 00:15:36,340
That's permissive parenting.

353
00:15:36,340 --> 00:15:40,980
We've got to come in with authority and be clear on what we expect to see from our kids.

354
00:15:40,980 --> 00:15:45,380
The key is doing it without being punitive and without having this like power dynamic

355
00:15:45,380 --> 00:15:47,860
of like, do it because I said so.

356
00:15:47,860 --> 00:15:50,960
It's more, I'm telling you, this is my expectation.

357
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,100
This is why.

358
00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:54,260
And I will work with you to develop that skill.

359
00:15:54,260 --> 00:15:56,460
And I think skills building is so important.

360
00:15:56,460 --> 00:16:00,020
A lot of times people think that I'll say it to my kids once and they're going to get

361
00:16:00,020 --> 00:16:01,020
it.

362
00:16:01,020 --> 00:16:03,220
But like that doesn't happen.

363
00:16:03,220 --> 00:16:04,760
And people get very frustrated.

364
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:06,500
They feel like they should know by now.

365
00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:09,220
And I'm like, you are allowed to feel frustrated.

366
00:16:09,220 --> 00:16:12,180
Also remember you're dealing with a kid and kids brains don't fully develop to like the

367
00:16:12,180 --> 00:16:13,180
late twenties.

368
00:16:13,180 --> 00:16:21,780
The part of the brain that's responsible for emotional regulation and impulse control,

369
00:16:21,780 --> 00:16:24,420
the ability to say pardon instead of what, right?

370
00:16:24,420 --> 00:16:28,980
Like those things really, your brain fully develops in your late twenties.

371
00:16:28,980 --> 00:16:30,140
So it's a skill.

372
00:16:30,140 --> 00:16:31,140
It takes time.

373
00:16:31,140 --> 00:16:35,700
If we can give our kids that grace, then I think we will all be happier in general because

374
00:16:35,700 --> 00:16:39,500
you know, no kid wants to feel like my mom only sees the worst in me all the time, you

375
00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:40,500
know?

376
00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:41,540
So that's something I try to remember.

377
00:16:41,540 --> 00:16:45,260
And I will acknowledge that it's hard to remember in the moment because it's like you little

378
00:16:45,260 --> 00:16:46,260
shit.

379
00:16:46,260 --> 00:16:49,460
I'm definitely going to struggle with that because like, obviously the first time they

380
00:16:49,460 --> 00:16:53,540
say something they're not supposed to, like I think one of the kids used fuck once and

381
00:16:53,540 --> 00:16:55,980
I was just like, okay, look, we don't speak like that in this house.

382
00:16:55,980 --> 00:16:56,980
It's not good.

383
00:16:56,980 --> 00:16:57,980
You don't want your teacher to hear you saying it.

384
00:16:57,980 --> 00:17:00,020
I hear you saying it to my eldest son.

385
00:17:00,020 --> 00:17:02,980
I'll say, look, whatever you say with your friends is fine.

386
00:17:02,980 --> 00:17:04,780
Just don't say it around your brothers.

387
00:17:04,780 --> 00:17:06,260
Don't say it around elders.

388
00:17:06,260 --> 00:17:10,660
Definitely don't want, you know, myself or any of the other elders to hear you say, speak

389
00:17:10,660 --> 00:17:12,020
that way.

390
00:17:12,020 --> 00:17:18,740
And then the other day we were at dinner and my eldest son, who is nearly nine, says to

391
00:17:18,740 --> 00:17:23,980
one of the twins, swear to God for whatever they were talking about.

392
00:17:23,980 --> 00:17:28,180
And he goes, I'm sorry, I shouldn't laugh at this, but he goes, fuck you God.

393
00:17:28,180 --> 00:17:31,460
I was like, oh my God, like what did he just say?

394
00:17:31,460 --> 00:17:33,580
And obviously he knows as well not to use that word.

395
00:17:33,580 --> 00:17:34,580
And he was like, I got confused.

396
00:17:34,580 --> 00:17:36,780
I thought he told me to swear to God.

397
00:17:36,780 --> 00:17:39,900
And then obviously I reacted straight away.

398
00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:43,420
And then after, after I calmed down, I basically told him like, okay, Ken, I understand you

399
00:17:43,420 --> 00:17:44,420
got confused.

400
00:17:44,420 --> 00:17:47,700
He didn't actually mean swear at God.

401
00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:50,980
He meant was, you know, you need to promise not to do that.

402
00:17:50,980 --> 00:17:56,740
So we had to explain it, but obviously my initial reaction was like, yes, it's so tough,

403
00:17:56,740 --> 00:18:02,460
isn't it, to sort of in the moment, try to remember to be calm when all this is going

404
00:18:02,460 --> 00:18:03,460
on.

405
00:18:03,460 --> 00:18:04,460
My kids are tiny, tiny, right?

406
00:18:04,460 --> 00:18:06,980
So my kids are four, two and brand new.

407
00:18:06,980 --> 00:18:12,020
And I remember seeing somewhere that when you're about to lose your ass on these kids,

408
00:18:12,020 --> 00:18:16,420
look at their little hands and their little feet and just remember, well, I'm like literally

409
00:18:16,420 --> 00:18:17,420
crying.

410
00:18:17,420 --> 00:18:18,420
This is sad.

411
00:18:18,420 --> 00:18:21,100
See, this is what I meant about being soft, but it's like, remember how their brains are

412
00:18:21,100 --> 00:18:25,660
so still developing and they're so small and the mistakes they're making are not because

413
00:18:25,660 --> 00:18:29,300
they want to, you know, they're because they're little, they're learning.

414
00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:30,780
You're getting teary.

415
00:18:30,780 --> 00:18:32,380
Can somebody help me?

416
00:18:32,380 --> 00:18:34,020
But that being said about learning, right?

417
00:18:34,020 --> 00:18:38,500
I think one of the big learning experiences in our household is having my Singaporean

418
00:18:38,500 --> 00:18:44,980
Chinese traditionally raised husband and my very American, very Western way of parenting

419
00:18:44,980 --> 00:18:46,160
clashing together.

420
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,380
And it's not always a clash, but sometimes it's an accidental one.

421
00:18:49,380 --> 00:18:54,780
We don't realize that the other one had such a different upbringing that what that person

422
00:18:54,780 --> 00:18:57,540
is about to do is completely foreign to us.

423
00:18:57,540 --> 00:18:59,660
Do you work with a lot of mixed families like ours?

424
00:18:59,660 --> 00:19:03,420
Do you, do you see that clash and how do you do help families deal with that?

425
00:19:03,420 --> 00:19:05,300
Yeah, I do actually.

426
00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:06,300
You know, it's interesting.

427
00:19:06,300 --> 00:19:10,380
So being the journalist, I am looked at the population numbers of the latest available

428
00:19:10,380 --> 00:19:15,620
numbers in 2022, one third of all citizen marriages were transnational.

429
00:19:15,620 --> 00:19:16,620
Wow.

430
00:19:16,620 --> 00:19:17,620
One third.

431
00:19:17,620 --> 00:19:18,620
Yeah.

432
00:19:18,620 --> 00:19:19,620
Look at us.

433
00:19:19,620 --> 00:19:25,220
And that represents a 29% increase from the year before in 2021.

434
00:19:25,220 --> 00:19:26,220
Oh, wow.

435
00:19:26,220 --> 00:19:27,380
30% in just one year.

436
00:19:27,380 --> 00:19:29,860
So COVID all the mixed couples got together.

437
00:19:29,860 --> 00:19:30,860
Yeah.

438
00:19:30,860 --> 00:19:32,340
So I mean, I don't think it's going anywhere.

439
00:19:32,340 --> 00:19:33,340
Right.

440
00:19:33,340 --> 00:19:35,300
And I see this reflected in my client base as well.

441
00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:40,580
I do get quite a few clients who are both Singaporean or Asian and then non-Asian.

442
00:19:40,580 --> 00:19:45,020
And what your experience is exactly what their experience is and what mine is, my husband's

443
00:19:45,020 --> 00:19:46,020
Canadian.

444
00:19:46,020 --> 00:19:51,580
And I think sometimes for us in these sorts of marriages, the starkness of that contrast

445
00:19:51,580 --> 00:19:54,580
is very visible immediately.

446
00:19:54,580 --> 00:19:58,620
And it's actually a good thing because it forces you to be a little bit more intentional

447
00:19:58,620 --> 00:20:03,380
and a little bit more reflective on like, huh, if that person had such a different response

448
00:20:03,380 --> 00:20:07,740
and a different upbringing, what does that mean?

449
00:20:07,740 --> 00:20:09,580
Does that mean mine was right?

450
00:20:09,580 --> 00:20:10,580
Not right?

451
00:20:10,580 --> 00:20:11,620
Does that mean his was right?

452
00:20:11,620 --> 00:20:12,620
Not right?

453
00:20:12,620 --> 00:20:14,160
Where do we land here?

454
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,300
And I think sometimes that's a bit harder to tease out when you have marriages that

455
00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:20,500
are from the same culture because you likely have a similar upbringing.

456
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:25,740
However, at the same time, even in those marriages, there will be differences because no two families

457
00:20:25,740 --> 00:20:26,740
are the same.

458
00:20:26,740 --> 00:20:31,220
Maybe even the way how you argue, how you decide whether you're going to cane or not

459
00:20:31,220 --> 00:20:33,500
cane, there will be differences in there.

460
00:20:33,500 --> 00:20:36,980
And what I always tell my clients is to pay attention to those differences because they

461
00:20:36,980 --> 00:20:43,300
are a good point of reflection to just say, hmm, okay, clearly there's a different way

462
00:20:43,300 --> 00:20:44,300
of doing this.

463
00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:45,460
Where do I land now?

464
00:20:45,460 --> 00:20:49,500
And you know, the beauty of being a parent is that you now have your own chance, your

465
00:20:49,500 --> 00:20:52,380
own opportunity to set a different path for your kids.

466
00:20:52,380 --> 00:20:55,060
You know, there's an expiry on blaming your parents.

467
00:20:55,060 --> 00:20:58,260
You don't get to just, you know, and what is that expiry?

468
00:20:58,260 --> 00:21:01,500
I'm going to mark that my calendar for 2052.

469
00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:06,820
Yeah, I mean, in adulthood, at some point, we do have to let that go and decide, okay,

470
00:21:06,820 --> 00:21:08,080
what are we doing now?

471
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,460
And I think for me, once I understood that, it was so liberating for me.

472
00:21:11,460 --> 00:21:15,180
It was like, wow, I'm the boss, I get to do what I want.

473
00:21:15,180 --> 00:21:20,060
And not in a, you know, power hungry, Godzilla way, like I'm going to trample on everything,

474
00:21:20,060 --> 00:21:22,020
but really in a wow, I can step into my own power.

475
00:21:22,020 --> 00:21:25,460
I can decide what this looks like for my family, whether I'm taking a little bit from what

476
00:21:25,460 --> 00:21:30,180
my husband's culture does, whether I'm holding on to some of what my culture does, whether

477
00:21:30,180 --> 00:21:33,100
I'm creating something different, wholly different in the process.

478
00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:34,460
That's very empowering for me.

479
00:21:34,460 --> 00:21:35,460
Yeah.

480
00:21:35,460 --> 00:21:38,020
And I think, you know, I was just trying to think of an example that came up at our house

481
00:21:38,020 --> 00:21:39,620
recently, right?

482
00:21:39,620 --> 00:21:43,620
So perfect example, I've got my four year old daughter, is a girl, daughter, and my

483
00:21:43,620 --> 00:21:45,500
two year old's a son, right?

484
00:21:45,500 --> 00:21:48,380
And my two year old, when they get home from school, they change from their school uniforms

485
00:21:48,380 --> 00:21:50,300
into their regular clothes, right?

486
00:21:50,300 --> 00:21:53,460
And there was one day where my son took off his pants and was running around the house

487
00:21:53,460 --> 00:21:55,840
and everyone was like, oh, you know, Archie, put on your pants.

488
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,120
And then my daughter took off her pants and went running around the house.

489
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:02,060
And my father-in-law was like, oh, Louise, put on your pants.

490
00:22:02,060 --> 00:22:03,940
Shame, shame, shame, shame, shame, shame.

491
00:22:03,940 --> 00:22:06,300
And I was like, okay, a couple things here.

492
00:22:06,300 --> 00:22:11,180
Number one, it is really weird for me to hear like, shame, shame, shame, shouted at a kid.

493
00:22:11,180 --> 00:22:13,660
It's like definitely not something that we would do in Western parenting where you're

494
00:22:13,660 --> 00:22:17,560
just like, you know, just the act of running around is shameful.

495
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,780
And secondly, it was directly for her.

496
00:22:20,780 --> 00:22:25,260
Archie was pantless for like three minutes prior, but when she got pantless, shame, shame,

497
00:22:25,260 --> 00:22:26,260
shame.

498
00:22:26,260 --> 00:22:29,580
And that was one of those stark differences where I was like, wow, I don't know that my

499
00:22:29,580 --> 00:22:31,940
husband sees how weird this is.

500
00:22:31,940 --> 00:22:35,580
So that night when we were going to bed, I was like, I found that really weird when your

501
00:22:35,580 --> 00:22:38,300
dad shouted shame at Louise for taking off her pants.

502
00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:40,500
And he was like, oh, yeah, I guess that was weird.

503
00:22:40,500 --> 00:22:43,460
But he no one had ever called his attention to it.

504
00:22:43,460 --> 00:22:45,080
You know, this is the first time.

505
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:50,700
So I think, like you said, it's a jumping off point for conversations and perhaps nowhere

506
00:22:50,700 --> 00:22:53,380
clearer than with discipline.

507
00:22:53,380 --> 00:22:58,380
And that's such a huge theme on your page, which is how do we establish healthy discipline

508
00:22:58,380 --> 00:23:03,900
for kids and how do we stay consistent with our discipline across caregivers?

509
00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:08,260
In our house, we have five adult caregivers, my two in-laws, myself and my husband and

510
00:23:08,260 --> 00:23:09,340
my helper.

511
00:23:09,340 --> 00:23:13,420
So what are some tips that you have for keeping discipline consistent across that?

512
00:23:13,420 --> 00:23:14,420
Yeah, yeah.

513
00:23:14,420 --> 00:23:15,420
It's a great question.

514
00:23:15,420 --> 00:23:17,820
And it's a very real question that people face all the time.

515
00:23:17,820 --> 00:23:23,140
And especially in an Asian culture, where we do parent with other caregivers, we rely

516
00:23:23,140 --> 00:23:27,880
very much on grandparent help, much more so than in other societies where you move away

517
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:29,820
from your family unit.

518
00:23:29,820 --> 00:23:31,060
And then we also have helpers.

519
00:23:31,060 --> 00:23:32,660
And so there are a lot of cooks in the kitchen.

520
00:23:32,660 --> 00:23:33,740
Yeah, there sure are.

521
00:23:33,740 --> 00:23:38,420
So the first case I always start with is to tell people to think about the meaning of

522
00:23:38,420 --> 00:23:39,580
the word discipline first.

523
00:23:39,580 --> 00:23:41,900
Let's just get clear on what discipline means.

524
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:45,020
Because a lot of times people see discipline as it's something where the parent has to

525
00:23:45,020 --> 00:23:46,620
come in and lay the smack down.

526
00:23:46,620 --> 00:23:48,340
I mean, honestly, yes.

527
00:23:48,340 --> 00:23:51,140
That's what I thought when you said it.

528
00:23:51,140 --> 00:23:54,220
Okay, so I think about discipline very differently.

529
00:23:54,220 --> 00:23:56,060
And so I studied literature in school.

530
00:23:56,060 --> 00:23:57,060
I was a journalist.

531
00:23:57,060 --> 00:23:58,060
I'm very wordy.

532
00:23:58,060 --> 00:23:59,980
I like looking to the meaning of words.

533
00:23:59,980 --> 00:24:04,300
And so actually, if you peel back the etymology of the word discipline, it's actually from

534
00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:05,620
old Latin.

535
00:24:05,620 --> 00:24:12,020
And it's closer to the idea of a disciple, where the idea behind it is instruction and

536
00:24:12,020 --> 00:24:14,620
teaching, not laying the smack down.

537
00:24:14,620 --> 00:24:15,620
Wow.

538
00:24:15,620 --> 00:24:21,200
So it's more about looking at your kids as disciples in the midst of formation, rather

539
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,620
than little ships who are hell bent on ruining your life and you have to lay the smack down.

540
00:24:25,620 --> 00:24:28,840
So just getting clear on like discipline is actually teaching.

541
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:29,840
That can really help.

542
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,380
It brings it back to what I said earlier about how think about what lesson are you trying

543
00:24:33,380 --> 00:24:35,100
to teach your kids.

544
00:24:35,100 --> 00:24:38,880
So in terms of getting everyone on the same page, first of all, having a conversation

545
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,140
about that can be helpful.

546
00:24:40,140 --> 00:24:43,020
You know, we're coming to discipline as we are teaching our kids something.

547
00:24:43,020 --> 00:24:46,760
They are in the midst of formation and we are here as the leaders for them.

548
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,660
That can be helpful.

549
00:24:48,660 --> 00:24:54,020
Now when it comes to everyone on the same page after that conversation, the first question

550
00:24:54,020 --> 00:25:01,500
I ask people to ask themselves is, are these people even open and receptive to my message?

551
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:05,820
Because if they're not, you can say it 50,000 times in a million different ways and it's

552
00:25:05,820 --> 00:25:08,380
not going to land because they're not open and it's nothing to do with you.

553
00:25:08,380 --> 00:25:09,780
It has nothing to do with your message.

554
00:25:09,780 --> 00:25:10,780
They're just not open.

555
00:25:10,780 --> 00:25:11,780
Yeah.

556
00:25:11,780 --> 00:25:14,060
And so in those cases, that's okay.

557
00:25:14,060 --> 00:25:19,180
I think we stress about everyone having to do all the things the same way as us doesn't

558
00:25:19,180 --> 00:25:20,540
have to be that way.

559
00:25:20,540 --> 00:25:24,540
We can just accept that, you know what, I cannot control other people.

560
00:25:24,540 --> 00:25:28,900
I can only control myself and I have lots of work to do on myself already.

561
00:25:28,900 --> 00:25:30,540
So let's start there.

562
00:25:30,540 --> 00:25:33,540
And I always tell people all is not lost.

563
00:25:33,540 --> 00:25:36,940
A lot of times people will feel like, you know, a very real example, one of my clients,

564
00:25:36,940 --> 00:25:40,420
she was trying to be more patient at the dinner table.

565
00:25:40,420 --> 00:25:45,540
Kid was taking a longer time to eat and the husband likes to bring the cane out and whack

566
00:25:45,540 --> 00:25:48,660
the table and say, if you don't finish your food, this is coming.

567
00:25:48,660 --> 00:25:49,660
All right.

568
00:25:49,660 --> 00:25:56,500
And so she's trying to, you know, parent her kids in a different way.

569
00:25:56,500 --> 00:25:58,500
And then the husband's here and she feels this frustration.

570
00:25:58,500 --> 00:25:59,980
She's like, you are undermining me.

571
00:25:59,980 --> 00:26:02,060
You're undermining all the good work I'm doing.

572
00:26:02,060 --> 00:26:03,900
And I'm like, yes, your frustration is valid.

573
00:26:03,900 --> 00:26:08,260
However, try not to see it as undermining because your kid understands that mom has

574
00:26:08,260 --> 00:26:09,260
a different way.

575
00:26:09,260 --> 00:26:10,260
Your kids are super smart.

576
00:26:10,260 --> 00:26:12,940
They recognize mom has this way, dad has this way.

577
00:26:12,940 --> 00:26:17,580
And ultimately at the end of the day, our kids and the adults in their lives will get

578
00:26:17,580 --> 00:26:19,340
the relationship that they deserve.

579
00:26:19,340 --> 00:26:20,340
Yeah.

580
00:26:20,340 --> 00:26:22,620
And they know that like mom is the headmaster, right?

581
00:26:22,620 --> 00:26:25,540
So they get that right.

582
00:26:25,540 --> 00:26:27,900
I think it depends.

583
00:26:27,900 --> 00:26:31,380
And I think at the end of the day, you know, our kids, it's good for them to experience

584
00:26:31,380 --> 00:26:35,380
different parenting styles, different authority styles, because that's the real world.

585
00:26:35,380 --> 00:26:37,900
Not everyone is going to be like us at home, right?

586
00:26:37,900 --> 00:26:41,780
They're going to meet really alcoholic bosses and coworkers one day.

587
00:26:41,780 --> 00:26:45,020
And it's good for them to learn how to deal with different personality types.

588
00:26:45,020 --> 00:26:49,380
What I do stress though is that if there can be at least one kid in your child's life,

589
00:26:49,380 --> 00:26:52,140
assuming the person's listening to this, that would be you.

590
00:26:52,140 --> 00:26:57,580
One kid, one adult in your kid's life who can be that safe adult who is not going to

591
00:26:57,580 --> 00:27:01,820
shame and blame and be punitive with them all the time.

592
00:27:01,820 --> 00:27:02,900
That is huge.

593
00:27:02,900 --> 00:27:04,620
That's all you need really, just one person.

594
00:27:04,620 --> 00:27:07,620
And it's okay that not everyone else is on the same page.

595
00:27:07,620 --> 00:27:10,980
If they are receptive, going back to that first question, if they are receptive, have

596
00:27:10,980 --> 00:27:11,980
a conversation.

597
00:27:11,980 --> 00:27:14,500
And how you have that conversation is really important.

598
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:18,180
Because if we come to it with a lot of like, you know, when I was a kid, you did this to

599
00:27:18,180 --> 00:27:19,580
me, I didn't like it.

600
00:27:19,580 --> 00:27:21,980
No one's going to listen to that, right?

601
00:27:21,980 --> 00:27:25,780
Coming in, being very clear that like you had your ways and I think that's what you

602
00:27:25,780 --> 00:27:27,780
knew and you did your best.

603
00:27:27,780 --> 00:27:29,300
I recognize that you did your best.

604
00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:31,900
That line can be so disarming and help.

605
00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:34,820
And some parents will still be like, oh, I don't like what you're saying.

606
00:27:34,820 --> 00:27:38,460
But you know, just taking the care to be very clear that I am not blaming you.

607
00:27:38,460 --> 00:27:41,100
This does not come as an indictment of your parenting.

608
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:44,660
This comes as we all have our best interests at heart with our kids, like the grandkids

609
00:27:44,660 --> 00:27:45,660
now.

610
00:27:45,660 --> 00:27:46,980
Let's have a different way forward.

611
00:27:46,980 --> 00:27:49,380
And then being very clear that this is not your subjective opinion.

612
00:27:49,380 --> 00:27:51,420
This is what psychologists say.

613
00:27:51,420 --> 00:27:53,020
And for some of my clients, they use me.

614
00:27:53,020 --> 00:27:58,100
They'll like show my picture and be like, I've hired this person as my parent coach.

615
00:27:58,100 --> 00:27:59,100
She's saying it.

616
00:27:59,100 --> 00:28:00,100
I'm not saying it.

617
00:28:00,100 --> 00:28:01,180
That can really help, actually.

618
00:28:01,180 --> 00:28:05,500
So a lot of clients have told me that like showing them this resource, they're like,

619
00:28:05,500 --> 00:28:06,780
oh, okay, it's not you.

620
00:28:06,780 --> 00:28:10,780
You are not, you know, saying I'm wrong.

621
00:28:10,780 --> 00:28:12,900
She is saying there are better things we can do.

622
00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:15,660
It's not personal anymore because someone is a third party.

623
00:28:15,660 --> 00:28:17,500
And actually, one of my clients had a really heartwarming story.

624
00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:20,100
She had a really difficult relationship with her mom growing up.

625
00:28:20,100 --> 00:28:23,440
And when she told her mom about, you know, she had joined juicy parenting and was learning

626
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:28,100
all these things, her mom actually said, good on you.

627
00:28:28,100 --> 00:28:30,020
And she expressed regret and remorse.

628
00:28:30,020 --> 00:28:33,060
And she said, you know, in my time, I didn't have parent coaches.

629
00:28:33,060 --> 00:28:36,620
I didn't have this kind of membership and resource where I could ask any parenting question

630
00:28:36,620 --> 00:28:37,620
and get it answered.

631
00:28:37,620 --> 00:28:38,620
I didn't have that.

632
00:28:38,620 --> 00:28:41,820
She said, good on you that you are seeking this out and you are finding a different way.

633
00:28:41,820 --> 00:28:42,820
She didn't go so far as to apologize.

634
00:28:42,820 --> 00:28:43,820
But it seems like huge.

635
00:28:43,820 --> 00:28:44,820
Let's not be crazy here, Caroline.

636
00:28:44,820 --> 00:28:45,820
But that's huge.

637
00:28:45,820 --> 00:28:48,780
And it was so big for her.

638
00:28:48,780 --> 00:28:53,820
She shared this and, you know, it's just, it's, I think we have to give our parents

639
00:28:53,820 --> 00:28:54,820
credit too.

640
00:28:54,820 --> 00:28:58,020
And one thing that my, it's so nice.

641
00:28:58,020 --> 00:29:02,860
One of my members, a dad actually, said this really nice thing that our parents' ceiling

642
00:29:02,860 --> 00:29:08,020
becomes our floor, meaning so the best that they did becomes our starting place.

643
00:29:08,020 --> 00:29:09,340
And now we build from that.

644
00:29:09,340 --> 00:29:12,700
And then our kids will have our ceiling as their floor.

645
00:29:12,700 --> 00:29:16,340
And it's such a nice way to think of breaking intergenerational cycles, you know?

646
00:29:16,340 --> 00:29:20,620
And like when it comes to filial piety, another member, a dad actually, had this great thing

647
00:29:20,620 --> 00:29:21,900
to say about filial piety.

648
00:29:21,900 --> 00:29:24,260
At first, he was really one of my most skeptical clients.

649
00:29:24,260 --> 00:29:25,860
He was just like, there's no way this works.

650
00:29:25,860 --> 00:29:26,860
We've got to hit our kids.

651
00:29:26,860 --> 00:29:29,340
Like, no, we have to like rule with an iron fist.

652
00:29:29,340 --> 00:29:32,380
And he said, because my mom ruled with an iron fist and I'm great, look at me.

653
00:29:32,380 --> 00:29:34,960
And he's a very high flying guy.

654
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,900
And after doing my course and reflecting and really trying to put it into practice, he

655
00:29:38,900 --> 00:29:43,700
came back in a different coaching call and he said, you know, I've had a completely different

656
00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:44,700
way of thinking about this.

657
00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:50,580
And he said, with filial piety, it's all about honoring our parents and continuing their

658
00:29:50,580 --> 00:29:52,000
legacy, right?

659
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,660
And he says, if I continue to do what my mom did, which was rule with an iron fist, extremely

660
00:29:56,660 --> 00:30:01,660
punitive, extremely harsh, I'm not actually respecting her legacy because I'm just doing

661
00:30:01,660 --> 00:30:03,260
what she did before.

662
00:30:03,260 --> 00:30:09,740
If I can go further and do better than what she did, that is truly honoring her memory.

663
00:30:09,740 --> 00:30:12,980
And I was like, Mike drop using that forever from now on.

664
00:30:12,980 --> 00:30:14,980
Credit goes to Young.

665
00:30:14,980 --> 00:30:19,620
And I think that is just such a good way of putting it.

666
00:30:19,620 --> 00:30:23,420
And he also talked about how, you know, for men, it's such a, it's a different way to

667
00:30:23,420 --> 00:30:25,700
think about these things.

668
00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:30,600
Men don't have the same feelings of like, I want to do better for my kids.

669
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,700
It's more of a fear based feeling of like, no, but if I don't do that, my kids won't

670
00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:34,700
be successful.

671
00:30:34,700 --> 00:30:40,420
And so once he turned his mindset around, now he's all in, like he is star student.

672
00:30:40,420 --> 00:30:44,980
His relationship with his kids have completely turned, like it's amazing to watch.

673
00:30:44,980 --> 00:30:48,380
And I'm just, every time I hear stories like this, I'm like, yes, we've got to keep going.

674
00:30:48,380 --> 00:30:49,380
We've got to keep going.

675
00:30:49,380 --> 00:30:50,380
Exactly.

676
00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:51,380
You know, what you're doing is valuable, girl.

677
00:30:51,380 --> 00:30:52,380
It's important.

678
00:30:52,380 --> 00:30:53,380
Yeah.

679
00:30:53,380 --> 00:30:57,380
So when, before I had kids, my husband and I had this conversation, like if either one

680
00:30:57,380 --> 00:31:03,820
of us is saying something to the kids, the other one should not go in and undermine and

681
00:31:03,820 --> 00:31:04,820
do the opposite.

682
00:31:04,820 --> 00:31:08,340
Cause I've seen it before, you know, where one parent will be shouting at the kid or

683
00:31:08,340 --> 00:31:11,420
telling them to go to the room with the other parent and let them come out and blah, it's

684
00:31:11,420 --> 00:31:12,420
okay.

685
00:31:12,420 --> 00:31:13,420
Yeah.

686
00:31:13,420 --> 00:31:16,380
You know, how do you manage that sort of situation where the child is getting sort of mixed signals

687
00:31:16,380 --> 00:31:22,140
like, oh, it's all right, mom's shouting, but dad's going to let me out or vice versa.

688
00:31:22,140 --> 00:31:27,580
How, how do you sort of go ahead and sort of make sure that boundaries are in place,

689
00:31:27,580 --> 00:31:30,980
but they're not getting these mixed signals like, oh, you know what, my parents don't

690
00:31:30,980 --> 00:31:36,260
have a union in this, in this space so I can just do whatever I like.

691
00:31:36,260 --> 00:31:37,260
Yeah.

692
00:31:37,260 --> 00:31:40,580
I think the first thing to do is what you and your husband did, which is have a conversation

693
00:31:40,580 --> 00:31:42,100
even before you have kids.

694
00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:44,140
It's so important to explore that.

695
00:31:44,140 --> 00:31:47,860
Like, what happens if you say this and I say that, right?

696
00:31:47,860 --> 00:31:52,060
Having that conversation beforehand just to lay it out on the table is good.

697
00:31:52,060 --> 00:31:57,540
It's not going to be enough because when you're in the situation, a different thing happens.

698
00:31:57,540 --> 00:32:02,340
And so I think what's really, really important in those situations is tap each other out.

699
00:32:02,340 --> 00:32:06,900
So instead of coming in and undermining or doing the opposite, have an agreement that

700
00:32:06,900 --> 00:32:10,860
you will tap each other out when you see the other person's at the end of their rope and

701
00:32:10,860 --> 00:32:13,900
nothing good is going to come from whatever comes out next.

702
00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:15,900
Just be like, okay, I've got this.

703
00:32:15,900 --> 00:32:17,620
You go relax.

704
00:32:17,620 --> 00:32:19,020
I've got this.

705
00:32:19,020 --> 00:32:23,740
And it's important to talk about this beforehand because in the moment it can feel like, no,

706
00:32:23,740 --> 00:32:24,980
I'm going to double down.

707
00:32:24,980 --> 00:32:26,420
You know, I'm going to dig my heels in deeper.

708
00:32:26,420 --> 00:32:30,460
It's so important to chat about that much before.

709
00:32:30,460 --> 00:32:31,780
Let's say that has already happened.

710
00:32:31,780 --> 00:32:35,260
Mom has said this and that went and did something else.

711
00:32:35,260 --> 00:32:36,260
All is not lost.

712
00:32:36,260 --> 00:32:40,540
I think it's important to debrief with our kids after to be very clear with them that,

713
00:32:40,540 --> 00:32:43,660
you know, earlier you saw this happen and then that happened.

714
00:32:43,660 --> 00:32:48,780
I want to let you know, mom and dad are discussing what to do going forward.

715
00:32:48,780 --> 00:32:51,420
We want to make sure that that doesn't happen again.

716
00:32:51,420 --> 00:32:54,980
We are going to be having that discussion and I will come back to you to let you know

717
00:32:54,980 --> 00:32:57,340
what our expectation is the next time around.

718
00:32:57,340 --> 00:33:00,380
And then what's important is you and your husband then need to have that conversation

719
00:33:00,380 --> 00:33:04,500
that night or sometime when everyone is calm and reset, what is the boundary you're going

720
00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:06,180
to draw and agree with it?

721
00:33:06,180 --> 00:33:07,660
I think that is so key.

722
00:33:07,660 --> 00:33:11,180
I think people see that as like a kid's issue, like a parenting issue, but it's not.

723
00:33:11,180 --> 00:33:12,180
It's an adult issue.

724
00:33:12,180 --> 00:33:13,460
It's a marriage issue.

725
00:33:13,460 --> 00:33:14,460
Talk about that first.

726
00:33:14,460 --> 00:33:18,380
I love that you said, you know, when everything is calm, go back and talk about it because

727
00:33:18,380 --> 00:33:22,500
I feel like in the heat of the moment, you will just say whatever just to let it off

728
00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:23,500
your chest.

729
00:33:23,500 --> 00:33:26,780
But you're right, going back at a different point and then going and talking about it

730
00:33:26,780 --> 00:33:29,820
when everything's calmer does sort of put everything into perspective.

731
00:33:29,820 --> 00:33:32,220
So making notes, mental notes.

732
00:33:32,220 --> 00:33:35,580
Well, and that brings up a really good point that I wanted to talk about that you address

733
00:33:35,580 --> 00:33:40,060
a lot in your on your Instagram page, which is this concept of mom rage.

734
00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:41,060
Yeah.

735
00:33:41,060 --> 00:33:42,060
And just I have that.

736
00:33:42,060 --> 00:33:43,620
Yeah, your absolute shit.

737
00:33:43,620 --> 00:33:45,940
And this is something that is so hard for me.

738
00:33:45,940 --> 00:33:51,420
This is a pinch point for my parenting, which is when I lose my shit on one of my kids or

739
00:33:51,420 --> 00:33:53,700
on my husband in front of my kids.

740
00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:57,860
And I and both times it ends up with me hating myself thinking about it all night long.

741
00:33:57,860 --> 00:34:01,620
The kids are sleeping like little perfect angels and I'm still just ruminating on, you

742
00:34:01,620 --> 00:34:04,300
know, me doing whatever and saying whatever.

743
00:34:04,300 --> 00:34:09,460
How do you help women, particularly this is for women, handle their mom rage?

744
00:34:09,460 --> 00:34:11,980
And then you mentioned earlier about debriefing with the kids.

745
00:34:11,980 --> 00:34:12,980
Right.

746
00:34:12,980 --> 00:34:14,700
So it's like, how am I addressing my mom rage in that?

747
00:34:14,700 --> 00:34:16,780
Because I'm thinking about it all night moment.

748
00:34:16,780 --> 00:34:20,380
And then the next morning when I'm waking up the kids, how do I then debrief with them

749
00:34:20,380 --> 00:34:21,980
in a way that is constructive?

750
00:34:21,980 --> 00:34:23,900
Yeah, this is so important.

751
00:34:23,900 --> 00:34:25,380
Mom rage is a very real thing.

752
00:34:25,380 --> 00:34:26,380
And it's not just you, it's everybody.

753
00:34:26,380 --> 00:34:27,380
Honestly, it's okay.

754
00:34:27,380 --> 00:34:28,380
Thank you.

755
00:34:28,380 --> 00:34:29,380
Thank you, Kelly.

756
00:34:29,380 --> 00:34:30,380
That's what I needed to hear.

757
00:34:30,380 --> 00:34:31,380
All of our listeners needed to hear.

758
00:34:31,380 --> 00:34:34,220
If people are honest with themselves, mom rage is real.

759
00:34:34,220 --> 00:34:35,220
Yeah.

760
00:34:35,220 --> 00:34:36,220
And everyone goes through it.

761
00:34:36,220 --> 00:34:38,700
And there's a very good and real reason why.

762
00:34:38,700 --> 00:34:44,220
So if we think about little girls, how often are they allowed to express their rage?

763
00:34:44,220 --> 00:34:47,140
Really not often at all or not at all.

764
00:34:47,140 --> 00:34:52,380
And you know, you think about how little girls hear things like, don't be angry, you know,

765
00:34:52,380 --> 00:34:54,780
turn that frown upside down.

766
00:34:54,780 --> 00:34:58,260
And you hear things like, you know, once you start getting angry, once you start frowning,

767
00:34:58,260 --> 00:34:59,260
you're not pretty anymore.

768
00:34:59,260 --> 00:35:00,260
Do you want to be pretty?

769
00:35:00,260 --> 00:35:01,260
That's my in-laws right there.

770
00:35:01,260 --> 00:35:02,260
So ugly, ugly face.

771
00:35:02,260 --> 00:35:05,260
Yeah, whatever my daughter expresses a negative emotion.

772
00:35:05,260 --> 00:35:06,260
Yeah.

773
00:35:06,260 --> 00:35:11,780
And so as kids, particularly girls, we internalize the idea that rage is not okay.

774
00:35:11,780 --> 00:35:12,780
Anger is not okay.

775
00:35:12,780 --> 00:35:13,780
We're not allowed to express it.

776
00:35:13,780 --> 00:35:16,540
But the problem is your feelings will come out.

777
00:35:16,540 --> 00:35:18,260
They will come out.

778
00:35:18,260 --> 00:35:20,860
And there's no such thing as, you know, repressing and repressing forever.

779
00:35:20,860 --> 00:35:21,860
It just gets worse.

780
00:35:21,860 --> 00:35:22,860
It's going to come out.

781
00:35:22,860 --> 00:35:26,140
And a lot of times it comes out when we are mothers and when we have kids because they

782
00:35:26,140 --> 00:35:30,020
trigger in us what we weren't allowed to do as children.

783
00:35:30,020 --> 00:35:32,260
Oh, yeah.

784
00:35:32,260 --> 00:35:37,260
And so I think number one, to understand that it makes sense that mom rage is a thing.

785
00:35:37,260 --> 00:35:40,700
If you think of how little girls are parented, it makes sense.

786
00:35:40,700 --> 00:35:45,260
And a lot of times what's underneath rage, it's fear.

787
00:35:45,260 --> 00:35:46,900
It's the fear that you're not doing enough.

788
00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:50,020
It's the fear that you're raising entitled kids and brats.

789
00:35:50,020 --> 00:35:53,620
This is fear and underlying all of that is, oh, I'm a bad mom.

790
00:35:53,620 --> 00:35:55,080
And then everything implodes.

791
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,860
And so I think starting from a place of accepting that, you know what, this is, it makes sense

792
00:35:59,860 --> 00:36:01,180
I have this rage inside of me.

793
00:36:01,180 --> 00:36:02,940
I was never allowed to express it.

794
00:36:02,940 --> 00:36:06,160
And I have very real fears that are powering this rage.

795
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,740
Starting from that point and understanding and accepting and having grace for yourself

796
00:36:10,740 --> 00:36:12,420
is so important.

797
00:36:12,420 --> 00:36:15,900
And then as for what you can do about it, you know, the debrief is so important.

798
00:36:15,900 --> 00:36:19,580
A lot of times parents will find that, you know, their kids are sleeping like angels

799
00:36:19,580 --> 00:36:22,140
and then they wake up the next morning and they're cool.

800
00:36:22,140 --> 00:36:23,140
They're skipping off to school.

801
00:36:23,140 --> 00:36:24,340
They're like, hi, mom.

802
00:36:24,340 --> 00:36:28,220
They don't seem to have any kind of lingering feeling, whereas it's us who are ruminating

803
00:36:28,220 --> 00:36:29,220
inside.

804
00:36:29,220 --> 00:36:33,260
And I always tell people, don't assume that your kids are cool.

805
00:36:33,260 --> 00:36:35,020
They are cool because they're skipping off.

806
00:36:35,020 --> 00:36:38,500
However, the feeling that they might have is likely still there.

807
00:36:38,500 --> 00:36:41,820
They just don't really know how to express it, especially if your kids are very young.

808
00:36:41,820 --> 00:36:44,140
And so it's always important to have a debrief.

809
00:36:44,140 --> 00:36:49,340
And the one line I ask people to remember is my feelings are my responsibility, not

810
00:36:49,340 --> 00:36:50,340
yours.

811
00:36:50,340 --> 00:36:51,340
Right.

812
00:36:51,340 --> 00:36:56,620
So when we apologize to our kids, I'm a big fan of never apologizing with the word, but

813
00:36:56,620 --> 00:36:57,800
in there.

814
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,780
So just, I'm sorry I yelled at you.

815
00:37:00,780 --> 00:37:04,460
No, but you were throwing whatever, whatever, whatever.

816
00:37:04,460 --> 00:37:08,660
You know, it's, it's important to just own what we did wrong.

817
00:37:08,660 --> 00:37:10,020
It doesn't matter what the cause is.

818
00:37:10,020 --> 00:37:11,260
No conditional apologies.

819
00:37:11,260 --> 00:37:12,260
Yeah.

820
00:37:12,260 --> 00:37:16,900
So I'm sorry I yelled and then just say like, what you noticed, what did the yelling then

821
00:37:16,900 --> 00:37:17,900
elicit?

822
00:37:17,900 --> 00:37:19,620
So I'm sorry I yelled.

823
00:37:19,620 --> 00:37:23,700
You were frightened when I yelled and I want you to know my feelings are my responsibility.

824
00:37:23,700 --> 00:37:29,100
I am working on how to express my anger in healthy ways because you don't deserve to

825
00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:30,100
be my punching bag.

826
00:37:30,100 --> 00:37:32,040
You know, you deserve to be my emotional punching bag.

827
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,460
And it's so powerful for a kid to hear that because think of the message they are learning

828
00:37:35,460 --> 00:37:36,460
about their self-worth.

829
00:37:36,460 --> 00:37:39,660
They're now learning they are not responsible for other people's feelings.

830
00:37:39,660 --> 00:37:42,740
You know, I don't have to take on my mother's mom rage.

831
00:37:42,740 --> 00:37:47,340
I don't have to be a good girl and sit there and be like, okay, I just won't move until

832
00:37:47,340 --> 00:37:48,740
mom is happy again.

833
00:37:48,740 --> 00:37:52,980
You know, and that's, that's huge for women, the women that they then grow into.

834
00:37:52,980 --> 00:37:56,180
And so mom rage is a topic that's very dear to my heart.

835
00:37:56,180 --> 00:38:00,220
And I really just want to normalize the fact that, you know, everyone give yourself grace.

836
00:38:00,220 --> 00:38:02,220
You are not a monster.

837
00:38:02,220 --> 00:38:06,180
You, there are many, many reasons and that has gone on for generations.

838
00:38:06,180 --> 00:38:12,540
Why women have such a difficult time expressing rage in a healthy way and please go to therapy.

839
00:38:12,540 --> 00:38:13,540
It really, really helps.

840
00:38:13,540 --> 00:38:16,020
And I think in Asian cultures, especially, there's a lot of stigma around therapy.

841
00:38:16,020 --> 00:38:17,020
It's like you have something wrong.

842
00:38:17,020 --> 00:38:18,260
Therefore you have to go to therapy.

843
00:38:18,260 --> 00:38:20,500
But I really see it as like performance coaching.

844
00:38:20,500 --> 00:38:21,500
Athletes get it, right?

845
00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:22,500
Yeah, absolutely.

846
00:38:22,500 --> 00:38:26,580
You get, you get a coach to help you see where you could do better, what blind spots you

847
00:38:26,580 --> 00:38:27,580
have.

848
00:38:27,580 --> 00:38:29,460
Why wouldn't that be the case for our internal mindscape as well?

849
00:38:29,460 --> 00:38:32,900
I feel like therapy needs a new brand, rebranding.

850
00:38:32,900 --> 00:38:34,780
Therapy needs some new juice.

851
00:38:34,780 --> 00:38:38,540
And I think for me personally, therapy has helped me a lot with mom rage because it's

852
00:38:38,540 --> 00:38:40,820
helped me understand why I get raging in the first place.

853
00:38:40,820 --> 00:38:43,980
And once I understand that I can kind of just accept, yeah, you know, I was never really

854
00:38:43,980 --> 00:38:49,340
allowed to express rage as a kid and explore, okay, how can I express it in a more, in a

855
00:38:49,340 --> 00:38:51,060
way that doesn't scare my kids?

856
00:38:51,060 --> 00:38:52,500
I'm allowed to feel rage.

857
00:38:52,500 --> 00:38:53,740
All feelings are okay.

858
00:38:53,740 --> 00:38:56,300
Not just happy ones, also sad and angry ones.

859
00:38:56,300 --> 00:38:58,420
They're all okay.

860
00:38:58,420 --> 00:39:01,260
I had a comment from my eldest son.

861
00:39:01,260 --> 00:39:03,100
He said, mommy, you're always shouting.

862
00:39:03,100 --> 00:39:05,580
I'm like, oh, God, yeah, I know.

863
00:39:05,580 --> 00:39:09,060
But then I did like, I think they know the difference between me sort of talking loudly

864
00:39:09,060 --> 00:39:12,820
when I'm like trying to get them to turn the TV off so we can get out for school.

865
00:39:12,820 --> 00:39:17,380
And then obviously clearly ignoring my response of TV needs to go off now we need to go to

866
00:39:17,380 --> 00:39:21,940
school to when I really shout and then they'll always say, oh, you scared me.

867
00:39:21,940 --> 00:39:22,980
And I'm like, that was the point.

868
00:39:22,980 --> 00:39:23,980
I do it.

869
00:39:23,980 --> 00:39:29,340
But to the point where, you know, it's to scare you so you don't, you know, step out into the road and there's a car coming.

870
00:39:29,340 --> 00:39:34,620
You know, it's like an immediate response for you to stop doing what you're doing.

871
00:39:34,620 --> 00:39:39,220
And I think they kind of know the difference between my my shouts and my shouts.

872
00:39:39,220 --> 00:39:45,100
You know, that's such a good point, because if we're shouting all the time, like shouts

873
00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:48,540
all the time, then they're not going to actually hear it when we really need.

874
00:39:48,540 --> 00:39:49,540
Yeah.

875
00:39:49,540 --> 00:39:52,540
Like you said, when it comes to danger, the mom who cried wolf.

876
00:39:52,540 --> 00:39:54,140
The mom who shouted wolf.

877
00:39:54,140 --> 00:39:55,140
Exactly.

878
00:39:55,140 --> 00:39:58,580
Like we have to reserve those moments for when it really calls for it, where there is

879
00:39:58,580 --> 00:39:59,580
imminent danger.

880
00:39:59,580 --> 00:40:00,580
Yeah.

881
00:40:00,580 --> 00:40:03,940
And I think I think there needs to be that differentiation as well, because there have

882
00:40:03,940 --> 00:40:07,940
been moments, you know, like, I don't know, one of them will kick a ball or something.

883
00:40:07,940 --> 00:40:09,580
And then it's like immediately like stop.

884
00:40:09,580 --> 00:40:11,380
You know, and they're like, you scared me.

885
00:40:11,380 --> 00:40:15,060
I'm like, that was the whole point, because then you kind of stopped what you were doing.

886
00:40:15,060 --> 00:40:16,820
And I think you kind of need to have that moment.

887
00:40:16,820 --> 00:40:21,060
Whereas, you know, if your mom is always shouting, I mean, I'm shouting, but I think it's more

888
00:40:21,060 --> 00:40:23,900
sort of loud voices like, damn the bloody TV.

889
00:40:23,900 --> 00:40:26,860
Actually, can we talk about turning the TV off?

890
00:40:26,860 --> 00:40:27,860
Oh, yes, please.

891
00:40:27,860 --> 00:40:32,660
So, you know, one of the things I hear often is I have to nag so much.

892
00:40:32,660 --> 00:40:34,100
I have to say it over and over again.

893
00:40:34,100 --> 00:40:35,100
I have to repeat myself.

894
00:40:35,100 --> 00:40:38,860
And that's a big trigger for a lot of people in part because when they were young, they

895
00:40:38,860 --> 00:40:40,300
felt unheard.

896
00:40:40,300 --> 00:40:45,820
So having to repeat yourself over and over again ignites that resentment of like, hear

897
00:40:45,820 --> 00:40:46,820
me.

898
00:40:46,820 --> 00:40:49,260
You know, so, okay, first of all, there's that.

899
00:40:49,260 --> 00:40:54,180
But I always say that, you know what, if you're feeling that it's time to stop repeating yourself,

900
00:40:54,180 --> 00:40:56,740
stop having to go there.

901
00:40:56,740 --> 00:40:59,860
So I always say, tell your kid what you expect, right?

902
00:40:59,860 --> 00:41:02,620
So in five minutes, the TV is going to be turned off.

903
00:41:02,620 --> 00:41:06,300
And then five minutes, if you want, at the two minute mark, say it again, if you're able

904
00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:07,300
to.

905
00:41:07,300 --> 00:41:10,220
And then at the five minute mark, they don't want to turn the TV off, right?

906
00:41:10,220 --> 00:41:13,100
And then so be very clear that, yep, it's been five minutes.

907
00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:15,860
You can turn the TV off or I can, you decide.

908
00:41:15,860 --> 00:41:16,860
They don't want to turn it off.

909
00:41:16,860 --> 00:41:17,860
Okay, thanks.

910
00:41:17,860 --> 00:41:18,860
I'll decide for you then.

911
00:41:18,860 --> 00:41:21,940
They're going to turn it off and just accept that they're going to be unhappy about it.

912
00:41:21,940 --> 00:41:24,140
No kids going to be like, okay, mom, you're the best.

913
00:41:24,140 --> 00:41:26,940
Thanks for forcing that boundary, mom.

914
00:41:26,940 --> 00:41:31,820
They're not going to just accept that that resistance is going to come and you are doing

915
00:41:31,820 --> 00:41:32,820
your job.

916
00:41:32,820 --> 00:41:34,500
It is okay for your kids to be mad at you.

917
00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:37,460
They are allowed to be upset with the decision you've made.

918
00:41:37,460 --> 00:41:42,420
And I think that can be so helpful because a lot of times people move into permissive

919
00:41:42,420 --> 00:41:46,980
territory because they're like, oh, if I go turn it off, they're going to be upset.

920
00:41:46,980 --> 00:41:49,460
I'm going to have to deal with a meltdown.

921
00:41:49,460 --> 00:41:52,340
Like that's how you move into permissive territory.

922
00:41:52,340 --> 00:41:53,340
Don't do that.

923
00:41:53,340 --> 00:41:54,660
Just be clear and accept that the meltdown is going to happen.

924
00:41:54,660 --> 00:41:55,820
They are allowed to be upset.

925
00:41:55,820 --> 00:41:58,180
The TV is still getting turned off.

926
00:41:58,180 --> 00:42:01,660
And Kelly, you have given us so many actionable tips like that today.

927
00:42:01,660 --> 00:42:05,160
And I thank you so, so much for being here to, you know, for us to hear those and start

928
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,180
to practice those in our everyday parenting.

929
00:42:08,180 --> 00:42:11,360
But one of our big questions that we ask all of our guests, and I would love to get this

930
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,020
view from a parenting coach.

931
00:42:13,020 --> 00:42:15,460
Again, your kids are very similar in age to my kids, right?

932
00:42:15,460 --> 00:42:17,420
So we've got young kids.

933
00:42:17,420 --> 00:42:21,420
How would you describe your forties formula?

934
00:42:21,420 --> 00:42:24,300
Knowing that a lot of our listenership has older kids, right?

935
00:42:24,300 --> 00:42:26,300
tweens, teens, they're going into that age.

936
00:42:26,300 --> 00:42:31,620
What is your overarching forties formula that parents in this decade can use to help them

937
00:42:31,620 --> 00:42:32,980
establish better relationships?

938
00:42:32,980 --> 00:42:34,700
Yeah, I love that question.

939
00:42:34,700 --> 00:42:36,300
I love that you ask everybody this question.

940
00:42:36,300 --> 00:42:37,300
Yeah, this is our big one.

941
00:42:37,300 --> 00:42:39,020
I mean, that's why we created this podcast.

942
00:42:39,020 --> 00:42:40,020
So good.

943
00:42:40,020 --> 00:42:44,500
I mean, I would say that, you know, for us, when our kids are young, the transgressions

944
00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:48,940
are minor, spilling a cup of water, drawing on the wall with markers, right?

945
00:42:48,940 --> 00:42:53,500
But when they're older, when they're teens, it's going to be things like dating an unsavory

946
00:42:53,500 --> 00:42:58,260
character, coming back from the bar with someone who's offering to drive you home, but they've

947
00:42:58,260 --> 00:43:00,800
been drinking too, right?

948
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,620
And I think it's really important to keep that perspective in mind that the work we're

949
00:43:03,620 --> 00:43:07,860
doing now, even in women in their forties with older kids, the work you're doing now

950
00:43:07,860 --> 00:43:11,900
is so important because we're going to get to that stage where kids are going to be making

951
00:43:11,900 --> 00:43:17,000
mistakes that are much more life altering with much bigger consequences.

952
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:21,660
And how willing are they to come and tell us their mistakes?

953
00:43:21,660 --> 00:43:25,000
That all starts now with how we respond to the little mistakes today.

954
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,680
So all the investments you are making into having a trusting relationship with your kids

955
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,940
as a woman in your forties, that is going to pay off when you're in your fifties, in

956
00:43:32,940 --> 00:43:36,060
your sixties, and when they come back for Chinese New Year later on or Thanksgiving,

957
00:43:36,060 --> 00:43:40,540
whatever it is, you know, both or all of the above.

958
00:43:40,540 --> 00:43:41,680
Christmas.

959
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,220
It's all going to pay off.

960
00:43:43,220 --> 00:43:50,020
So really stay the path of cultivating a deep and mutually respectful relationship with

961
00:43:50,020 --> 00:43:51,020
your kids.

962
00:43:51,020 --> 00:43:52,020
Respect can't just go up.

963
00:43:52,020 --> 00:43:54,260
It has to go down to our kids.

964
00:43:54,260 --> 00:43:55,740
They will feel that.

965
00:43:55,740 --> 00:44:00,380
And that's when, you know, when they're at the sidewalk deciding, should I jump into

966
00:44:00,380 --> 00:44:03,080
this drunk driver's car or should I not?

967
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:04,500
That's when they're going to be like, you know what?

968
00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:05,500
I'm not going to.

969
00:44:05,500 --> 00:44:06,500
Instead, I'm going to call my mom.

970
00:44:06,500 --> 00:44:10,660
She's not going to be happy that she got woken up at three in the morning, but she's

971
00:44:10,660 --> 00:44:12,480
going to be my safest ride home tonight.

972
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,980
And I would rather call her than jump into this drunk dude's car.

973
00:44:15,980 --> 00:44:21,040
And I think that is a North Star that we can hold with ourselves to know that this will

974
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,140
get better in the decades to come.

975
00:44:23,140 --> 00:44:29,620
This is the foundation we are setting up to lead our kids, but also ourselves up for success.

976
00:44:29,620 --> 00:44:30,620
Amazing.

977
00:44:30,620 --> 00:44:32,260
Thank you so much, Kelly.

978
00:44:32,260 --> 00:44:35,560
Again, I think you've made both of us feel like more confident parents just sitting across

979
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:36,560
the table from you.

980
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,640
So thank you for being here today.

981
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,860
And again, for our listeners, I know that you provided a ton of valuable, actionable

982
00:44:41,860 --> 00:44:42,860
tips today.

983
00:44:42,860 --> 00:44:44,220
So we really thank you for being here.

984
00:44:44,220 --> 00:44:45,540
Thank you for having me.

985
00:44:45,540 --> 00:44:48,840
Thank you.

986
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:50,780
This is Paul, our editor.

987
00:44:50,780 --> 00:44:55,780
He's a 25 year old unmarried Singaporean guy listening to the ramblings of 12 older women

988
00:44:55,780 --> 00:44:59,560
on everything from menopause to weightlifting to sex.

989
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,100
So Paul, what's your thoughts on today's conversation?

990
00:45:02,100 --> 00:45:03,740
Hey guys, what's up?

991
00:45:03,740 --> 00:45:04,740
Paul here.

992
00:45:04,740 --> 00:45:10,540
So for this episode, Kelly, you mentioned about Asian parenting and about compliance.

993
00:45:10,540 --> 00:45:16,780
And I think I could really relate to these topics because I'm Asian and Singaporean Chinese

994
00:45:16,780 --> 00:45:21,820
and I grew up in most of my life, if not all in Singapore.

995
00:45:21,820 --> 00:45:27,300
And yeah, I know about the whole idea of filopiety, but of course not to the point of like complete

996
00:45:27,300 --> 00:45:35,060
obedience and you know, but you know, being able to honor elders and respect them, you

997
00:45:35,060 --> 00:45:38,900
know, appreciate them, but at the same time, you know, be who you are yourself.

998
00:45:38,900 --> 00:45:43,700
I think that's really nice and really important and that it's okay to disagree with them and

999
00:45:43,700 --> 00:45:48,700
it's okay to, you know, be better than them, I guess in many other ways.

1000
00:45:48,700 --> 00:45:54,580
So I also love you mentioned, you know, the point of discipline, but you know, the rule

1001
00:45:54,580 --> 00:45:59,660
of discipline is to disciple rather than to, you know, to basically like whip them and

1002
00:45:59,660 --> 00:46:00,660
whatnot.

1003
00:46:00,660 --> 00:46:04,820
It's more like an instructional and teaching idea and that's really amazing.

1004
00:46:04,820 --> 00:46:07,860
You know, like sort of like what lesson you're trying to teach your kids.

1005
00:46:07,860 --> 00:46:13,620
I don't have kids, but of course one day if I do, then that's something that I will definitely

1006
00:46:13,620 --> 00:46:14,620
keep in mind.

1007
00:46:14,620 --> 00:46:15,620
So thank you for that.

1008
00:46:15,620 --> 00:46:16,620
See ya.

1009
00:46:16,620 --> 00:46:19,620
Guys, you know how much we love coffee?

1010
00:46:19,620 --> 00:46:22,340
And if you want to show us some love, you know, you can get us one.

1011
00:46:22,340 --> 00:46:27,020
Just visit buymeacoffee.com slash the forties formula.

1012
00:46:27,020 --> 00:46:28,020
Cheers.

1013
00:46:28,020 --> 00:46:33,660
Peter Lowe left us this review after listening to episode six with Tina.

1014
00:46:33,660 --> 00:46:36,940
Love that you ladies are keeping it real and sharing personal stories.

1015
00:46:36,940 --> 00:46:39,000
Love listening to this podcast on my walks.

1016
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:40,140
Keep up the great work.

1017
00:46:40,140 --> 00:46:43,180
Also, I like the little Easter eggs at the end of the podcast.

1018
00:46:43,180 --> 00:46:44,180
Very Marvel.

1019
00:46:44,180 --> 00:46:45,180
LOL.

1020
00:46:45,180 --> 00:46:48,620
Well, we are so glad that you love Ponderings with Paul at the end of our podcast.

1021
00:46:48,620 --> 00:46:50,220
We're definitely going to keep that coming.

1022
00:46:50,220 --> 00:46:52,580
And also, we appreciate you walking while you listen.

1023
00:46:52,580 --> 00:46:56,820
Guys, get your exercise and listen to the forties formula.

1024
00:46:56,820 --> 00:47:01,540
Before we go, please remember to hit subscribe and take a moment to support the forties formula

1025
00:47:01,540 --> 00:47:04,960
by leaving a review on your favorite podcast platform.

1026
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,780
Your reviews will help us to reach more people and allow us to continue to bring valuable

1027
00:47:08,780 --> 00:47:09,780
content.

1028
00:47:09,780 --> 00:47:12,860
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1029
00:47:12,860 --> 00:47:17,420
You can also stay updated with the forties formula by following us on Instagram at the

1030
00:47:17,420 --> 00:47:18,620
forties formula.

1031
00:47:18,620 --> 00:47:19,860
All one word.

1032
00:47:19,860 --> 00:47:23,400
We share behind the scenes insights, episode updates and much more.

1033
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,100
So please be sure to hit that follow button.

1034
00:47:26,100 --> 00:47:27,700
We appreciate your time and support.

1035
00:47:27,700 --> 00:47:30,900
Thank you for being part of this community and we'll be back next week for more empowering

1036
00:47:30,900 --> 00:47:33,380
conversations with inspiring guests.

1037
00:47:33,380 --> 00:47:58,740
Bye.

1038
00:48:03,380 --> 00:48:24,100
Yeah.

1039
00:48:24,100 --> 00:48:28,060
We didn't even get into like screen time phone news, but it's like that's that's the stuff

1040
00:48:28,060 --> 00:48:31,460
it's like I lose my shit over things like scribbling on the wall.

1041
00:48:31,460 --> 00:48:32,460
Yeah.

1042
00:48:32,460 --> 00:48:36,260
And it's like that is such a I'm going to pray for scribbles on the wall.

1043
00:48:36,260 --> 00:48:40,060
The first time they come home with like some like sexy text on their Snapchat or you know

1044
00:48:40,060 --> 00:48:41,060
whatever.

1045
00:48:41,060 --> 00:48:42,060
And I'm like, what the hell is this?

1046
00:48:42,060 --> 00:48:43,060
Exactly.

1047
00:48:43,060 --> 00:48:44,060
Yeah.

1048
00:48:44,060 --> 00:48:48,740
And the only chance we get of seeing that Snapchat text is if we establish this because

1049
00:48:48,740 --> 00:48:49,740
otherwise they're going to hide it.

1050
00:48:49,740 --> 00:48:51,420
They're going to know mom flips the shit out.

1051
00:48:51,420 --> 00:48:52,420
Yeah.

1052
00:48:52,420 --> 00:48:54,100
When anything untoward happens, hell no.

1053
00:48:54,100 --> 00:48:55,100
She's going to see this.

1054
00:48:55,100 --> 00:48:58,500
But I want my kids to be like, you know, this dodgy dude messaged me today.

1055
00:48:58,500 --> 00:48:59,500
Have a look.

1056
00:48:59,500 --> 00:49:00,500
I want that relationship.

1057
00:49:00,500 --> 00:49:01,500
I didn't have that with my mom.

1058
00:49:01,500 --> 00:49:04,100
I was like, let's go together and find him.

1059
00:49:04,100 --> 00:49:08,180
I was going to get a shit out of him.

1060
00:49:08,180 --> 00:49:10,260
And you can watch me lay down this guy.

1061
00:49:10,260 --> 00:49:12,860
That's why you do cross.

1062
00:49:12,860 --> 00:49:13,860
Yes.

1063
00:49:13,860 --> 00:49:16,740
I mean, honestly, I know I pick him up and throw him.

1064
00:49:16,740 --> 00:49:20,180
I said, when when our kids are teens, that is my time to shine.

1065
00:49:20,180 --> 00:49:21,180
Yes.

1066
00:49:21,180 --> 00:49:22,180
They'll get all my jokes.

1067
00:49:22,180 --> 00:49:23,180
Yeah.

1068
00:49:23,180 --> 00:49:26,140
I'll be able to sarcasm them right in the face and they'll understand that I'm, you

1069
00:49:26,140 --> 00:49:27,140
know, pulling their leg.

1070
00:49:27,140 --> 00:49:28,140
It'll be great.

1071
00:49:28,140 --> 00:49:29,140
I can't wait.

1072
00:49:29,140 --> 00:49:30,140
Give me 10 years.

1073
00:49:30,140 --> 00:49:31,140
I'm going to be a good kid.

1074
00:49:31,140 --> 00:49:32,140
I'm going to be a good kid.