Hello and welcome to the 40s Formula, your go-to place for insightful discussions on
navigating your 40s and thriving in this transformative decade.
We're your hosts, Amanda and Jasmine, two women that are passionate about exploring the
challenges and adventures that come with turning 40 and what lies ahead.
Today we are here chatting to Natalie Dao, an entrepreneur, media creator and athlete
with over 25 years of global consulting experience, over 19 of those based in Asia, and specializing
in the areas of media, travel, sports and wellness.
With a wealth of experience in international marketing, communications, business management
and strategy.
She is the co-author of Run Like a Woman, an Amazon bestseller and founder of the highly
successful Rockstar Fit app.
She's also a spokesperson for multiple global brands and has produced and hosted series,
including the Facebook Lifestyle program, Keeping It Real, Zero to Hero and Business
Insiders Travel program, No Limits.
She is also a World Health Organization Facebook ambassador and a mom to an amazing 14 year
old daughter.
And believe it or not, in her spare time, she's an incredibly accomplished athlete,
having won multiple ultra distance races and represented Asia at the Spartan Race World
Championships.
All right, well, we are here with Natalie Dao, someone who I personally admire beyond
belief.
She's an athlete, she's a media mogul, she's a businesswoman, she's a mother to a teenage
girl so that could alone be a full time job.
And she's here with us for the hour.
So thank you so much for joining us, Nat.
Thank you.
I think that's the nicest introduction ever.
I mean it.
I mean every word.
And again, as a fellow mumpreneur, right, someone who is a parent and runs their own
business, I am in awe of how you find time to do all.
You really do it all.
And I always have to think, is there anything in your life that gives when you're just,
you know, functioning at this high level?
You know, I think it's just for me prioritising my time.
So maybe it's less time on something.
But it's all about quality, not quantity time for me.
So training definitely doesn't give.
I try and not let sleep give.
Obviously, time with family.
So maybe it's work that gives a bit if it has to.
If it has to.
And how do you fit in your training?
Are you an early morning trainer?
Yeah, like tomorrow I'm already thinking about the run.
So I'll be up about quarter to four to run tomorrow.
Yeah.
I can tell you quarter to four is a time that I do not see unless there's a newborn baby
in my household.
I'll tell you that right now.
100%.
I will be fast and tight, tucked into bed.
There is no way I'm going to be getting up at quarter to four unless I'm catching a flight
or, you know, getting through with the twins.
But you know, that's been like, they put me off having other kids.
So it's not happening anymore.
And I have to wonder again with all the titles that you have and everything that you do,
and then you find time to write a book.
Now tell me about how that project came about.
Yeah.
So my so great.
It's co authored.
So that takes out half the work.
But I'd met Jason many, many years ago, and he approached me to write this book end of
last year.
And I thought it was something that was really relevant, especially to me who didn't know
a lot for many, many years.
So I was all in and six months later, we had a book six months.
Are you all hearing that six months to a book?
The book, by the way, is called Run Like a Woman.
And it's about cycling running around your menstrual cycle.
This is for endurance athletes that are looking to maximize and optimize their training around
their menstrual cycles.
And I had the wonderful pleasure of reading it over this past week.
And I have to tell you, the anecdote that stuck with me, Nat, was where you were 49
years old.
You're not new to the menstrual cycle, lying on the pavement in pain during a run, wondering,
what am I doing?
Why is this happening?
Why haven't I mastered this?
Can you tell us about that moment?
Yeah, it was it was in the middle of Clark Key, actually.
So no one was there.
It wasn't a Saturday morning.
Thank heavens with people passed out drunk.
And they thought you were one of them.
Yeah, you know, started off the run fine.
And then the cramps started and got worse and worse and worse.
And you know, I actually had to call a taxi to get home.
So it's like, how is this happening to me when, you know, I got my period at 12 years
old and at 49?
This is still happening.
And what is going on?
And how do I not know how to train around this?
And I think I am pretty aligned with what my body feels.
But yeah, it still kept surprising me.
And you know, you talk about exactly that training around your menstrual cycle.
And I think that's important for women to understand this distinction.
It doesn't mean that because you have a menstrual cycle, you stop training or because you experience
cramps, you stop training.
It's about mastering your cycle to the point where you can leverage it for your own success.
And have you been able to do that since kind of learning the techniques in your book?
Absolutely.
So I work with my coach really closely, and we track everything.
And so, you know, the week where you have your period, which is probably where you want
to cut back the most, you know, we down my long runs.
So we're doing shorter ones, but maybe more often.
And then week two and three is when I really push a bit harder with my longer runs.
And you've been doing that for how long now?
Yeah, since about a year now.
And it's made a difference.
So I'm even finding that I'm not cramping as much during that time, because my body's
a bit more rested.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think that rest piece is such an incredible component, because when we think about the
cycle, right, we think about, you know, a training cycle that's consistent, right?
12 weeks training, 16 weeks training, and you don't think about the rest periods.
But using your menstrual cycle forces those rest periods.
And I think that that is a revelation for women of all ages in their 40s and beyond.
Right?
Absolutely.
So I found that I've recently gotten into sort of cycling, whether it's food, whether
it's whether it's exercise.
And I've actually joined up with a gym, and obviously, they've got their program.
And I'm finding that obviously, the program is tailored towards men, you know, like, every
day you're going to be doing this or this or this.
How do you approach the topic then if you are going to classes that actually I want
to train with my cycle, I want to utilise strength training today, and I don't want
to push hard and I don't want to do cardio?
How can someone sort of take that on board and, you know, speak to their gyms or their
instructors about this?
Yeah, because I mean, we are, everyone thinks we're little men, but we're so not right.
They've got all the research, it's not being done on women, it's being done on men.
I think it's just women, you know, owning their own bodies and owning the conversation
and being brave enough and saying to the trainer, look, you know, this week is not a great week
for me, I need to cut back.
So do you have any alternative exercises I can do?
Or just so you know, I'm not pushing as hard.
I think it's up to trainers to be educated as well.
You know, that is an issue that most trainers don't know what's going on.
And it's not taught when you're learning, you know, getting your PT licence or anything
like that.
So I think the whole education around it needs to change, you know, for the professionals,
first and foremost.
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
I mean, there is definitely a barrier of knowledge.
And I don't want to call out the male trainers, but I'm going to call out the male trainers.
Because female trainers are working with this, we have an innate understanding of the cycle.
Whereas male trainers, until they're exposed to it through their wives or their clients,
they generally don't have that ability and that capacity to really understand.
So that's why I think Jason being your co author on the book, real key play.
Because it opens the door for men to be involved in that world.
And again, just talking about it, it's not a taboo.
Men and women can talk about menstruation together.
That's okay.
Absolutely.
And you know, it's like having an injury.
How do I train coming back from an injury?
It's just the same conversation.
You're talking about how you can be your best physical self and perform at your highest.
So it doesn't matter if you've got the flu, or if you've hurt your ankle, or if you've
got your menstrual cycle, how can we work around that to get you performing at your
best?
That's right.
I also find that you get women who just think that all sort of month long, they do need
to train the hardest because the only way they're going to achieve results is, you know,
exercising hard, cutting back on the calories, and that's all they need to do.
But they don't give their body that time to adapt and sort of go through the changes,
you know, whether it's high estrogen, and that's, you know, making your ligaments a
bit softer, or whether it's, you know, being in the second half of your cycle, and you
know, you're a bit more insulin resistant.
How would you say to women that this is how you should train during your menstrual cycle?
And what would be the sort of key parts of training when it comes to your period?
Yeah, I mean, you're exactly right too, because women just push, push, push.
You're not going to ever improve, number one.
Doesn't matter what your training is.
If you do the same thing day in, day out, you're not improving.
So you need to understand when to push hard, which is week two, take on some more carbs.
And then, you know, week one is cut back a little bit.
Week three and four, see how you feel, it'll be a little bit up and down.
But you're talking about things like reds, you know, not taking enough calories in, you're
going to get things like stress fractures much more easily.
And you know, a lot of women are training to lose weight or have a six pack or whatever
it is.
But you know, you're not you're not doing your body any favors, and you're never going
to achieve those goals.
If you're just going doing the same thing doing those hit classes crazy every day in
calorie deficit, then your body's not ever repairing.
Yeah.
So Jasmine, you're all about that low carb life, right?
Yep, have been for a while now.
So I'm assuming that your groceries look a lot like our house.
Lots of fish, tons of meat.
Yep, sounds about right.
Honestly, we get the best cuts of meat from the meat club, the premier online source for
top quality Australian and New Zealand produce in Singapore.
Yeah, we also love the meat club around our house for the subscription service, making
sure that we don't have to spend too much time shopping or planning.
The meat just is there.
And as a thank you for all our listeners, new customers can get $12 off their first
order by using the discount code TFF12.
There's no minimum spend.
Discounts are valid only through the website, the meatclub.com.sg.
And for more updates, recipes and special offers, don't forget to follow the meat club
on Instagram at the meat club SG.
It's T H E M E A T C L U B S G.
And now back to the conversation.
And you just touched on something that blew my mind in your book, which is you've towed
the line at multiple ultra marathons and marathons.
And you mentioned that at some of those, you know, towing line at some of the front of
the line, you've been told you don't look like an ultra marathoner or, you know, your
body type isn't the correct body type for running the sport.
Whereas as you sit before me, you are literally ripped beyond belief.
You are jacked to the level of insanity.
So how did you respond when you towed the line with other female athletes and we're
told you don't look like you participate in that sport?
Yeah, it's, it's always interesting because then you have a little bit of self doubt and
think, well, can I do this?
Because I'm a couple of kilos heavier than everyone else because everyone's super skinny
generally that runs ultra marathons.
A couple kilos of muscle though.
Again, I'm looking at your arms right this moment.
Hashtag rockstar arms.
And it is, it's just, you know, okay, well, you know, it's, it's a lot of mental strength
going into those ultra marathons and it is strength and, and having some muscle and knowing
that you're strong enough to get through them.
So, you know, people, especially in Asia, just call it as they see it, which I love
and hate.
And then it's at the end of the line, then people change the narrative of, oh, wow, you're
so strong instead of, oh, you're not skinny enough.
So I think, you know, the proof is in the pudding at the end of the day.
And a lot of times it's guys as well who are judging and, and they come up and, and are
impressed.
So I think, yeah, I think the proof's in the pudding.
Yeah.
So how long have you been training for?
Yeah, my whole life.
I think, you know, I think it come, it, you know, when you come from a sporting family,
it makes a massive difference.
So I was varsity and state basketball growing up.
And then, you know, in my twenties, I had a great time, lots of partying, but would
get home run at 5am and then go into the office.
So there's your endurance event right there.
Exactly.
So, you know, you can do those things, but it wasn't really until my thirties that I
actually started taking things more seriously and then, you know, started having a huge
amount of success in my forties.
So it's never too late.
Yeah.
And that's what I wanted.
I really wanted to explore with you was how your athletic journey developed through your
forties.
And I'm obviously calling you out that you are out of your forties now, girl.
You are, you are a lovely, you know, what do they call it?
Lifty fifties now.
But what changed for you in your forties that allowed you to kind of reach, because it seems
like since turning 50, you've been winning races.
I mean, you were winning races back then in terms of Spartan and your representation at
the Asia world champs.
But in terms of what you're doing now with your ultra work, it seems like you're only
getting better.
And how did your forties set you up for that increased success?
Yeah, I think, you know, we have the opportunity in our forties to take ownership of what we
want in life, especially as women.
And it's about being a little bit selfish and finding what your goals are.
And for me, I love being uncomfortable.
I love pushing to see what's possible.
So in my forties, I started exploring that and it was literally going from Spartan to,
oh, well, maybe I'll go and run track and I've never run track before to what is the
opposite of that?
Okay, I'll go and run 100 kilometres, even though I hadn't run a marathon.
So it was really not caring what people thought and putting myself out there, but also equipping
myself with the right tools of having a trainer of understanding what I needed to eat.
And so doing the research and putting in the work and then enjoying the process.
I do love that you said, you know, feeling uncomfortable, because I think a lot of people,
if anything feels a little bit uncomfortable, they're going to take a step back and be like,
whoa, this isn't for me.
But I feel like in order to progress, being uncomfortable is one of the key points.
It's like a key element to get better.
So how did you keep sort of pushing through that when you realised that this isn't quite
right or how did you push through that uncomfortableness?
Yeah.
So if I think back to, I did a 200 kilometre race this year and I...
What?
Sorry.
200 kilometres.
Which is a typical week for now.
And you know, you're not allowed to wear headphones or anything in these races just to make it
harder.
But I was FaceTiming my husband going, what am I doing, you know, about three quarters
of the way through?
And he's like, just get to the next water station.
Just get to the next water station.
And for me, it was just stopping and having a moment and understanding I chose to be here.
I'm lucky enough to be here.
This is what I want to do.
So I can either quit or keep going.
And it's all personal choice, right?
So it's about that grit and it's understanding why you are there and why you're doing this
and digging deep and calling on that when you need to.
Yeah.
And I think, you know, in the context of discomfort and but you chose this, can we have a real
quick chat about your pregnancy?
So you mentioned in your book that your pregnancy was one of your physical low points.
It's when you had some complications related to your birth control use previously.
Can you talk a little bit about why your pregnancy was so tough?
Yeah.
So I was going in, I was diagnosed not long before that with rheumatoid arthritis.
Then I was diagnosed with deep vein thrombosis.
So I was wearing those disgusting stockings 24 seven for two years, got pregnant, injecting
every day with blood thinners.
And obviously then, well, you know, didn't exercise as much, just did not feel myself.
I was I had morning sickness badly for the whole pregnancy.
And I think I just didn't, I lost sight of who I was during that time.
I was happy to be pregnant.
And of course, I, you know, I was lucky enough and I chose to be pregnant.
But it's hard.
And I think a lot of women are scared to say that out loud because people are like, well,
you're lucky.
Imagine all the people that can't be pregnant.
It's like, but it is it is reality.
And some people, you know, love being pregnant.
It's the best time of their life, but it was not the best time of my life.
And you know, you talk about the physical struggle, right?
The rheumatoid arthritis and obviously the blood clots.
But at the same time, as a lifelong athlete, that mental struggle had to be the hardest
that you couldn't remotely perform at the level you were used to.
So how did you come back from that?
Your postpartum journey?
You know, how did that become a reentry for you into the world of competitive athletics?
Yeah.
So I, you know, it was like, well, what can I do during this time?
So you know, started back out walking, got the clear to run, which is not easy after
you have given birth.
Everything's still jiggling and your body doesn't feel like your body for a long time.
But then it was just about setting small goals and not getting obsessed with, you know, where
I finished, but rather I finished.
And then, you know, knowing it's going to be a long term journey rather than I need
to be back performing within a year.
So understanding, no, it's okay to take two years to get back to the level.
So taking that pressure off, but just enjoying being back out there.
Yeah.
And I think you just said two years.
And I think for a lot of fit moms going into their pregnancies or, you know, about to become
pregnant, they're thinking, I can't do two years.
How will I ever come back?
But here you are sitting on the other side of your forties, you know, with your daughter
14 now and competing at the top of your game.
So I think it's so reassuring for moms to hear that your career is not over, even if
your pregnancy journey is not hyper fit.
Yes, 100%.
And then your goals change and maybe you explore different fitness goals as well and find something
that suits you better.
Have your goals changed?
Yeah, you know, I wasn't doing ultra marathons, you know, five years ago, maybe six years
ago.
So they have and now my goals are around, you know, what can I explore and what can
my body actually do?
And my mantra is very much do it today because maybe I can't do it tomorrow.
So I want to go and smash as much as I possibly can while I can.
I love that.
I love that so much because it's true.
I mean, again, we're not getting any younger.
That's kind of the point of why we're all sitting around this table is to, you know,
share some tips on thriving while we can.
How do you share?
How do you translate those tips to your daughter?
I mean, she's emerging into an athlete now.
This is, you know, she is only going up and up with her potential.
How do you translate what you're doing now into her athletic experience?
Yeah, I mean, she's seen both of, you know, my husband and I exercise every day.
So she thinks that's normal, which is great.
You know, kids copy.
Don't they don't listen.
And it's letting her explore different sports and what she enjoys.
And then, you know, it's it's fantastic because she's set herself some goals which we had
nothing to do with.
Yes, I proud mom.
And it's across different sports.
And she's happy to put herself out there.
You know, she's off to Bangkok this week playing varsity volleyball, which, you know, she hadn't
played volleyball a volleyball game until, you know, a few months ago.
So it's it's interesting seeing her being comfortable going out of her comfort zone,
but knowing that she'll come back to her favorite sport, which is basketball, still doing jujitsu.
So we started that really young for her to understand what it's like to be uncomfortable
and physically uncomfortable.
So, you know, my advice to parents is let your kids play as many sports as they can
and explore and then let them decide what they want to focus on.
I love that there was a mention of that in the book.
And I think this is actually in Jason's portion.
But he said something like exposing your kids to bone density forming activities, which
is sports right in their youth is like ensuring their 401k for their retirement, meaning the
physical bone density benefits, especially for females, of being a child athlete is absolutely
payback as you're an adult.
And I think that that advice to have your kids in as many sports as possible, it's not
about the performance and it's not about the outcomes.
It's about their health and well-being that will persist into their adulthood.
And that's the kind of guidance and I don't want to speak for you, Nat, but that's the
kind of guidance that I don't think we were able to have when we were young athletes.
We didn't realize that there was more to it than just playing the game.
And I think that as educated moms and athletes, we can now pass that on to our daughters and
sons about the importance of being active in their youth way outside of what performance
goals could ever achieve.
Yeah, 100 percent.
Can I just add, I was never an active kid.
I was that fat kid who'd be sick on PE days.
Like I hated it.
But I do realize now the importance of it.
And my boys are 100 percent doing sports, jujitsu being one of them, which they absolutely
love.
But I wanted to ask, are you still menstruating?
Yes, you are.
OK.
And then with your daughter sort of going through puberty, how was that sort of that
sort of timeframe for obviously you as you're, you know, continuing with your sort of cycles
and obviously she's going through hers.
How was that for her and for you as well?
Yeah.
So, you know, we're maybe two years in with her now.
She was open conversations in our house and even with her dad, it's open conversations
and it still is.
So it was definitely there was no shame involved.
It was, you know, yeah, get on with, you know, get on with it.
But it's OK.
You know, and she's not embarrassed.
And it's interesting now, I think even her friend circle talk about it quite openly.
So maybe there's a change and there's definitely no shame.
And you know, she's got a very mixed race friend circle.
But yeah, she's fine.
You know, she's fine.
You know, sometimes sadly she suffers with cramps as I do.
But you know, she understands and she's read the book.
So she knows when to push and when not to push and tells all her friends, you know,
what to do now.
But yeah, she's, you know, she's fine.
Yeah, the best ambassador you could ask for.
Right.
My husband is a doctor, so he's convinced that my daughter, who, by the way, is three
and a half.
So far way off.
My daughter is going to tell him first when she has her period.
He's like, she's going to come to me first because I'm a doctor.
I'm like, bless your heart.
Bless your heart.
You might hear about it.
You know, again, in an open conversation, everything.
But I think I think mama's going to hear first.
I do love that.
You know, it's very open and things are changing now because I feel like when I was great,
I'm probably saying with you, Amanda, it was a bit different.
It was a bit like, oh, you know, we can't talk about this.
We can't mention we're in our period.
Oh, I've got a stomach ache.
Why?
Oh, just my stomach hurts.
You know, whatever it was, you never really sort of went into the details about it.
And I feel like it needs to be an open conversation.
People need to realize this is so normal.
Like 50% of the population go through it.
And it's just at least it is becoming more normalized now.
It is.
And I and I must say men are open to the conversation, but I think they need the women to start it
because it's a bit weird if a male starts a conversation around it sometimes.
So I think it's up to females to to open it up for men to feel comfortable talking about
it too.
And you mentioned that your daughter is talking about it with her friends and has read your
book, which is amazing.
Does she talk about with her coaches?
Yes, she does.
Awesome.
Yeah, she does.
Great men.
Okay.
And they have no problem discussing it.
Love it.
And do you find that they're generally at least competent talking about it?
Yeah, they are.
And they're not embarrassed and they're sort of not all go and sit and take a pan at all
sort of thing.
They're they're like, okay, well, push when you can and and sit out if you need to.
So they're very supportive, which is great of teenage girls at school, which is a touchy
subject.
Yeah.
Well, I hope you do just hand over a copy of your book just to every coach.
He has right just, you know, just so you know, you know, I'm an expert in this area, so make
sure you get it right, buddy.
I hope that's the truth.
And Jasmine had asked you and I was going to ask you as well.
So I hope you're cool with it.
You know, you are still menstruating.
Have you found that your athletic journey has changed at all alongside your your journey
toward I assume perimenopause?
Well, apparently I can still have a child.
Wow.
Okay, girl.
Pull back that assumption.
My mom was 60 in menopause.
So I've got a little way to go, I think.
So no, so far, so far, it's it's same same, to be honest.
Incredible.
Yeah.
I mean, that's that's wonderful to hear, because I think that is and again, maybe we'll get
you on in five, 10 years to talk about what that feels like when an athlete starts to
experience perimenopause symptoms and how that does affect kind of your career and your
mindset.
But again, we'll get we'll get that in five years.
Season 2028.
Well, that last question we want to ask, and we asked this of all of our guests, because
we are sitting here on the 40s formula, wondering how can we hack into this decade?
How can we be our best?
What would you tell women is the 40s formula based on your expertise having been through
it?
Yeah, I think my advice to women is find your identity and understand what that is.
So you might be now a mother or wife, whatever it is, but find what you want it to be and
what you want the conversation to be.
So it doesn't have to be something that you're 100% defined by.
But maybe it is that you're a gym goer or you're a yoga teacher now or you're an ultra
runner or you're an artist, whatever it may be, you've got the chance in your 40s to redefine
yourself and and own that and be responsible for that.
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
And I was a fine I think your identity can change, right?
You don't have to you don't have to be the same person you were in your 20s, in your
30s, your 40s and beyond.
I feel like, you know, like you said, find it and own it.
Yeah, I remember when I was in my 30s, part of my identity, right, was that I'm the woman
who doesn't have kids.
I'm not having kids.
I'm cool.
You know, I'm an athlete.
And now I realize I'm a mom, but I'm still an athlete.
And I think synthesizing two identities that you felt were at odds maybe in your younger
years is part of the maturity of being in your 40s, right?
That you can finally realize it doesn't have to be this or that you can put all those pieces
of your identity together and become the woman that you've always wanted to be.
Absolutely.
And understand what your motivation is as well.
So your values, your motivation, and do some work on yourself.
You know, so I think that's important.
It's up to us to do it.
No one's going to do it for us.
Yeah.
And if there's somebody to listen to about doing the work, it is Natalie Dow.
Again, thank you so much for being with us today.
You have been amazing.
We've learned so much and I appreciate you being one of our inaugural guests on the 40s
Angela.
Thank you, Nat.
Thanks guys.
This is Paul, our editor.
He's a 25 year old unmarried Singaporean guy listening to the ramblings of 12 older women
on everything from menopause to weightlifting to sex.
So Paul, what's your thoughts on today's conversation?
Hey, hey, hello there.
Honestly, I don't know how to start, but Nat, man, you're quite crazy and you know,
if all the rules being a media creator, athlete and much more like 200 kilometres of, I don't
know, like running and stuff, I can't do that.
I mean, I'm in my mid 20s and I'm not even close to any of these.
So I don't know what else to talk about, but I guess I'll catch you guys in the next episode.
Peace, love, see y'all.
Hey guys, did you know that you can leave us questions and comments on Fanlist?
That's right, on fanlist.com slash the 40s formula, you can leave us a voice note where
you can ask us anything, leave us your feedback or just say hi.
A listener also reached out to us and said this.
Well done.
I can't wait for the next one.
I feel like I need more now.
I need to binge listen to more.
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Yeah.
So if I think back to it, I did a 200 kilometer race this year and I, what, which is a typical
week for now.
Sorry.