Hey hey and welcome to the Forties Formula, your go-to place for insightful discussions
on navigating the forties and thriving in this transformative decade.
We're your hosts, Jasmine and Amanda, two women that are passionate about exploring
the challenges and adventures that come with turning 40 and what lies ahead.
Our guest today is Priyanka Rai.
She is a psychotherapist, author and wellbeing consultant.
She wears many hats, including being the director of SQL counseling and consultancy, co-creator
of Story of Me, a personal development and coaching program for women, and a dedicated
volunteer mentor for teens and families at the Ministry of Social and Family Development
here in Singapore.
With over two decades of experience, Priyanka has conducted high profile interviews and
written human interest content for various publications.
Today she is here to share her insights and wisdoms on nurturing mental wellbeing.
Mental wellbeing is a vital topic and our conversation aims to shed light on the importance
of self-care, self-discovery and nurturing your mental health, especially during the
forties.
We are absolutely honored to have Priyanka Rai here on the Forties Formula and today's
topic is all about mental health.
It's a topic that impacts us all, regardless of our age, but I feel like there's some
kind of unique significance in our forties.
Priyanka, why do you think that is?
Okay, I'm so glad you're asking this question because first of all, 40 is that age group,
let's just say 40 to 50 first, that kind of stage where maximum people are impacted by
some kind of mental issues.
And so this age is also the age group where we have the maximum depression rate.
But it is also the most exciting age group because that's the age group where we have
a lot of resources and we have a lot of wisdom from the last few years.
And so that's the age group where we can do better than any other age group.
So on both sides, this is the age group where mental health becomes really, really important.
What kind of challenges do you see women in their forties or women approaching their forties
facing?
So I think we can call it as a liminal stage, which is like a threshold where you are moving
out of say a very youthful phase of your life and you're not old at all.
That's right.
Yes, you are not and so that that kind of stage also comes with a lot of other changes,
like the kids are probably at the age where they do not need you or probably going into
the university.
There's this age where you have more responsibility from your probably parents or anybody else
that where you have caregiving roles.
You also are at a stage where doing very well in your career and so you have more responsibilities
in that sense, right?
Plus, it's also an age where you have seen a lot of loss and grief.
You have dealt with it.
You have faced it.
And now I'm not just talking about death.
I'm also talking about loss of say a dream of identity, loss of a kind of friendship
that you thought would last, a kind of idealism that you have carried yourself from your very
young days.
So there's a lot of losses that we are talking about.
Or it's also a kind of understanding that what I thought my dream was is changing.
I am changing.
So a loss of self.
Apart from that, there is a loss of, I shouldn't say loss, there's a change in relationships
with whoever you have the closest relationship with, whether it's your child, your spouse,
right?
So there's a lot of changes that's coming in and women have to take that a lot.
And we have also the stage where there's maximum anxiety and depression as compared to men
absolutely twice.
That makes it very relevant to look at that.
And you mentioned that idea of grieving a loss of identity.
I had never thought of that before, but it kind of hit me, right?
When it's like the things you have to let go of from your 20s and 30s in order to thrive
in your 40s.
And I don't know that we all allow ourselves that grieving process, that time to say that
that is who I was and this is who I am.
Yes.
I think also because there's no awareness, you don't realize that there is a loss of
identity and there is something to grieve.
But you do feel a sense of loss.
And I see most women this age struggling with where is the loneliness coming from?
Where is the restlessness coming from?
Where is the boredom coming from?
And these three things are extremely important at this stage, the loneliness, the boredom
and the restlessness, right?
And what's happening is our lives are so busy at that stage.
We're not stopping by to pinpoint on these, right?
What we are doing instead is probably paying more attention to exercise or maybe on nutrition
because that's what we can see.
But we can't see the restlessness and the cause of it.
And maybe we go to do a meditation, which is great, but we still have the source that
we haven't addressed yet.
And so these are all coming from the things that I mentioned, the loss of identity.
I want to also point out that the loss of identity is also because throughout our adolescence
and early adulthood, a lot of our identity is based on labels that people have given
us.
We haven't really figured out who we are.
We have absorbed what people close to us or the society or the peers have said.
And we have some kind of idea, oh, I think I like that.
So let's take it.
Or, you know, everyone's saying I'm very bold or I'm very courageous.
I'm very lazy.
I'm selfish.
Whatever it is, I've taken on that role.
And sometimes it doesn't fit me at all.
Or maybe it did fit me when I was 18.
Hello?
I'm not.
And I've learned so much.
I have moved so much.
I have changed the way I have experienced different things.
It doesn't fit anymore.
But I'm still clinging onto that.
I'm clinging onto the job that I wanted when I was a kid.
I'm clinging onto the identity.
I'm clinging even to the relationship part that I had.
But it's not juggling with my values, my ideas, and who I am.
So the restlessness, the loneliness, and the boredom starts.
And that is where it all kind of starts.
Yeah.
Do you find that with women, because like you mentioned, there's a difference between
sort of men and women when it comes to, say, depression, is it a physiological thing sometimes
that causes a woman to feel more depressed than a man?
So the way the women process, and the way they express, and the way they feel the emotions,
different.
And so when they are, anything to do with relationship, anything to do with emotion,
they are more impacted.
And they take one more.
They multitask more.
So the expectation they have of themselves is already different.
So the point is that women are twice as prone as men are to feeling low about themselves,
feeling they are not making the cut, this relationship is not going well.
So that impacts them more.
And then they start spiraling.
So two things I want to say here is although it sounds bad that, oh, they are more prone
to depression and that sounds sad, it's not as sad.
Because also it's easier to address women have this habit of reaching out for help,
which is fantastic.
And they also reach out to other women.
They seek support system much faster and more easily than men do.
And that's where the solution is.
So although it seems like, oh, they're impacted more, they also are easier to find, you know,
take to solution and get better.
Yeah.
I remember there was this billboard in LA.
This is years, probably decades ago, if I'm being serious.
And it was like, millions of men will die from stubbornness this year.
And it was so interesting.
It was for a therapist.
And it was like, you know, it's like men's hesitation to talk and open up and give a
bit more about their feelings and connect.
Like you said, that is actually why they suffer more.
It's not that they're actually suffering more.
We know that they're not now, right?
That women are diagnosed with these conditions twice as often.
But men are suffering more.
And I think that's what's cool about women in our 40s is we can struggle, but we don't
have to suffer.
You know, one of my favorite quotes about running is that pain is necessary, but suffering
is an option.
Yes.
Right.
And it's like you don't have to do it alone.
And I think, yeah, that message is so powerful.
That is I think one of the main things we miss out on mental health is that when we
feel bad about anything, our tendency is to just hide somewhere, withdraw, isolate.
And that's the worst thing we can do to us.
So of course, take your time and get over things, but not for too long.
You cannot hide for too long.
If you're feeling not OK, find someone to talk to, anybody.
You just go out in the crowd, see people.
That's good enough.
You need to connect.
So that's like so important.
And I just want to point this out.
We talk a lot about mental health, and people immediately assume it's mental illness.
Something is wrong with you, you having some kind of depression, craziness, or anything
at all.
I'll not go into the labels there.
But mental health is not just mental illness or absence of it.
It's also the ability to take on the good things that's coming.
Because if you are not doing well in sort of mental health, not resilient, not ready
to take on an opportunity, not having that butterfly in the stomach and still saying,
I can take this on, you will not grow.
And this stage of 40s is where the maximum opportunities are.
Are you ready to grow beyond what you thought is also something that you need to address?
It's not just, oh, I'm not going to be depressed.
I'm not going to be anxious.
I'm not going to be low.
That's just one part of it.
Second part of it is, am I ready to take on what comes?
Am I ready to problem solve creatively so that I see solutions where there was not before?
And am I ready to grow beyond who I thought ever possible?
So we are talking of both sides that need sound mental health, ready to take on the
highs and ready to take on the lows, both.
That's amazing.
I feel like it's such an important thing that you've just said.
I heard a quote, expectation is the root of all heartache.
And I feel like as women, we always expect something.
We expect our kids to do things.
We expect our husbands to put their socks in the laundry basket.
You know, whatever it is, I feel like it's usually our expectations that lead to us feeling
sad, feeling bad about what's happening.
How can we overcome these, I guess?
I think before I even address the expectations we have for others, I think I need to address
the expectations on self.
And that I feel is more relevant because the language that most of us use for ourselves
is we must, we should, we have to reach here by this time.
We have to ensure our kids are getting this grade or we must see that the house looks
or we must have a spouse who keeps the socks.
That is the imposition on self because it tells us we are doing great then.
And that's the only time when things are falling into place and when we have the expectations
met, we feel we have done our job.
It's more to do with us than to do with them.
So I'm not saying that we shouldn't have expectations of self for others.
We have to, otherwise, you know, where are we going?
But the language is important.
So it is not the expectation that somebody will do something.
It is the expectation.
What does it mean to me when they do something?
Why am I feeling so satisfied or so accomplished?
Because somebody did what we expected them to do.
It's not.
So I think it's just changing, stepping back and changing the expectations on self first.
It has nothing to do with them doing something or I doing something that only I'll feel good
about myself.
It's a flow, not a destination.
So I think that's where I would like to say because we focus too much on the final outcome.
And I would just keep saying it's the journey.
It's the moment.
I'm doing well.
It has nothing to do with how clean this place looks.
I'm just enjoying what I'm doing right now.
I keep this here and whatever it is, you know, it's the process which is more important.
So expectation and destination and goal are kind of mish-mashed.
So that's where I would like to draw a line and say, no, it's the process and expectations
will start changing automatically.
Yeah.
And I mean, that could not be more relevant for a lot of women during their health journeys.
You know, I work with so many women that say, well, in my 20s, I could just, you know, skip
dinner and lose five pounds overnight.
Well, guess what?
Welcome to your 40s where that's not going to happen.
The expectation that weight loss will be easy in your 40s, you need to drop it.
And focusing on what you are doing toward your health goals is much more empowering.
Instead of saying I want to lose, you know, two kg by the end of the month, you might
say I want to hit three workouts per week every week for this month.
That is such a more empowering, measurable, you know, satisfying goal than to say if I
don't lose two kg by the end of the month, I'm a failure.
Yeah, you are so right.
And you know, like usually in my field, I have people who suddenly feel so hopeless
and helpless.
And the only way to get them out is just for them to feel I am empowered enough to do
something.
The fact that I reach out to someone, maybe you, and say that, hey, I think I need to
do something about it.
And the fact that I have taken a step for myself.
And that is the goal.
Yeah, action.
That I moved.
I didn't stay in one place.
I moved.
And that is actually the process.
Yeah.
And you can look back on that month and say here's all the checkboxes of what I did versus
here's this one little number, this one little measure of what I didn't do.
And again, by the way, usually when you do check all those boxes, you get what you wanted
anyway.
But that's the bonus.
We are not looking at that too much.
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Now back to the show.
I also find that being in our 40s, we're kind of sandwiched in between parents and our kids.
And there's like pressure coming from both sides.
Do you find that a lot of the women that you speak with are struggling with coping with,
you know, dealing with elderly parents or aging parents, and then obviously their kids,
and that pressure is just getting too much to them?
Yes.
And that is so true.
So when I'm talking about loss, the loss is also in terms of when you see your parents
aging, there's a loss of that image you had when you were a kid, that they are the super
superman, superwoman who will take care of you.
They're so strong and stuff like that.
But now that they're aging, you see their vulnerable weak side, they're depending on
you.
They're kind of clinging sometimes, right?
And then not only are you having that pressure that you need to take care of them, you're
also mourning who you thought they were and who they have become.
And that's a bit of a sadness, which we do not allow ourselves.
You know, that grief we have not allowed ourselves, that I feel sad for who they were and what
my relationship with them was, because the relationship is changing.
And that change has to come and you have to accept.
So that becomes hard.
On the other side, the kids, they were young, they were completely like, Mama, you're the
best.
And now they are like, you don't know anything.
Right?
I'm sorry, you mean my kids are not going to think I'm the best?
I have a three and a two and one on the way.
So they're still thinking I'm the best.
Is that going to change, Priyanka?
Yes.
But then again, it's a temporary phase.
It may again come back like, OK, my kids are much, much, much older.
They did all the transitioning and moving closer to me.
So that's that's fine.
But that happens.
And then there is the whole thing of am I not needed?
And I was important.
Am I not anymore?
And that that again hits you.
And there's again this loss of identity and a grief of I was needed.
Now suddenly I'm I'm not needed anywhere.
And the sandwich that you say causes a lot of stress.
When I say stress, you know, let's just break it down.
Stress is not bad.
People have this habit of saying I'm so stressed.
Stress is bad.
No, it's not.
Stress keeps you moving.
Right?
So stress is great.
We need a certain amount of stress to grow.
The stress becomes a problem when it continues and on and on and on.
And we you have not figured out a way to find a little break in between and cool down.
It's always like your body and your mind are ready for some threat.
And that continued stress is where the burnout comes in.
So to identify this is continuing how and what I can do to have a little pause and a
break.
Find my little places where I can just relax and let down my guard is necessary.
Otherwise it's leading to burn out.
And there are like we ignore the symptoms of burnout.
And that's what it leads to a lot of physical ailments as well.
I always say to my kids, mommy needs some oxytocin.
And they 100% know that that's when I'm coming in for a hug.
So, you know, oxytocin, oxytocin.
So sweet.
How important is it to maintain a healthy relationship?
Like you were talking about relationships earlier, not only with yourself, but also
with your partners and stuff as well.
Because I think as you grow, you change.
And sometimes, you know, whether it's your siblings, whether it's your husband, your
kids, everyone's changing.
Everyone has different beliefs, different ideas about what's happening.
How can you sort of keep that bond strong?
You know, people have this misconception that the relationship you have once just remains
the same.
Really it should not.
You know, I think that acceptance is important.
It's changing doesn't mean it's getting worse.
But people do have that thought.
When I was 20 and dating, he did this.
And so he's not doing that now.
It's bad.
It's bad news.
No, it's not.
It's high time he did different things for what you need now.
And that's a good thing.
So relationships will change with everybody.
The first and foremost thing is to accept it will change and that it should change.
It should not stagnate.
That's the first thing.
Second thing is that I was saying for a sound mental health, one of the most important things
is connection.
And that's where the relationships coming.
If relationship could be bottled into something and given to people, I would give it every
day because that's like in my mind, the thing that I have seen that impacts the most.
And so a little bit of thing, as you say, we expect from others and it's OK.
That's a good and healthy relationship.
And a little bit we need to put in and change.
So what I find women, especially in their 40s, they are so successful in so many ways
that they kind of get arrogant about it.
I know best.
And this has worked for me.
This is what I think should be in the way relationships should be there in the way I'm
a mother, in the way I'm a friend and the way I'm an employee.
And you get fixated on a sense on what you think works, which has been successful at
some point.
But the whole mantra of this stage is to be OK with change, to see it flowing in a certain
way and you know instinctively this is what is needed.
And I think that's where I want to point out women usually have a higher instinct.
This is not woo woo thing.
It's research.
Right.
Any men listening.
It's hard science.
Yes.
But women do not really rely on that.
That's the sad part.
That the gut instinct is real.
We do have more nerves out there.
So it's just that we have not clogged it, but we have sensed it.
So if there was a suggestion that I would give women is to use your strength.
It's a superpower.
So instinctively you would know what to do in a relationship.
Don't ignore it.
Instinctively, you will know that my health is not feeling good.
Go with it.
Instinctively, you will know what is good for you.
And what works for I mean, you would know you would know what works for one doesn't
work for other.
Do not stick on to a diet just because it's a fad.
Do not stick on to an exercise routine because your sister does it.
You cannot rely on someone else.
It's your own gut instinct.
So whether it's a relationship connecting with people, go with your gut.
Someone feels good and energizes you.
That's your person.
You're absolutely right, Bianca.
And you're speaking directly to me a few years ago.
I was divorced.
I was going through a divorce and it was with a partner that I had been with for 12 years.
And I remember so many of our mutual friends were like, oh, Mandy, you just got to stick
it out.
You just got to make it work.
You just got to remember why you got together in the first place.
But what you just said about change and acknowledging the change in relationship, just because we
got together when I was 25 doesn't mean we needed to be together when I was 37.
And I think other people's expectations of what I should do based on what the relationship
was or even their perception of it from the outside really did make me struggle.
And I didn't finalize my divorce for two years because I just couldn't wrap my head around
the fact that it was time to call it.
And had I followed my instinct from the very beginning, it would have been an easier process.
It would have been a shorter process.
And I think I would have spared him a lot of the pain.
So I hear you, girl.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think what happens is that we're not sure which one is instinct and which one is anxiety
or fear.
And that's where we struggle.
But that's a bit of a practice.
Just tuning in and figuring out and then experimenting in small places.
Because it's like a muscle that grows.
But how do you know?
And I don't want to go in with something which is going to have consequence.
So why not try in small, small places and see where your instinct leads you?
You would know where it's successful, where it's not.
And then that's how it grows.
And I think my instinct level has increased.
And increased the more I use it.
And that's the whole thing.
It's like a muscle.
It is completely a muscle, I tell you.
Use it more.
I also wonder on the flip side, people who are in a relationship, they've been together
a long time.
And then someone turns around and says, I just don't get the butterflies anymore.
Does that mean that their relationship is ending?
Is that it's done?
No.
I think a lot of listeners just breathe this cyberly.
No, I think I'm going to say two things that I've mentioned already before.
One is that butterflies doesn't mean it's left.
Even if you're 18.
People react differently.
They need different things.
And so again, I would say do not go on the fat, on the movies, on whatever is being fed
on social media as to this is what it is.
No, it's not.
It's your instinct.
If you feel complete, you would know.
You don't need to look at somebody else to tell you.
You would know.
And that would be fine.
There's no checklist, people.
There's really no checklist out there.
You know, you know.
Second thing that I'm saying is you need different things in different phases of your life.
What you needed at that time was something else.
What you need now is something else.
What you feel complete with, that only you would figure out.
And sometimes I feel this whole thing, you know, it's great that people are getting more
self-aware.
They are tuning in to themselves and saying this is what I need, self-care.
It's all good, all fine.
But sometimes people are in a hurry to drop something and run to the next thing just because
there's an availability of choice.
But that makes you more anxious, not necessarily more calm or more happy.
Okay, I just want to add happiness is not about excitement.
There are two kinds of happiness or well-being.
One is the hedonic, which is like the excitement, the fun, the thing that goes like we, you
know.
And then there's the quieter kind, the eudaemonic, which is the satisfaction, the meaning, the
purpose, the quiet understanding of this is it.
Aside, you know, both are needed in equal measures.
Maybe sometimes one goes higher, sometimes one goes lower, and that's fine.
But we should not base our happiness or feeling of well-being on just one of it.
We need both to be complete and feel accomplished or feel fulfilled.
You mentioned gut instinct.
Based on gut, I'm going to talk about sort of your gut health.
Now people say that your gut health can reflect on your brain health.
How much of that would you say is true?
Yeah, it is.
It is.
It is true, but I wouldn't just go on the gut health.
I mean, of course, physical well-being and mental well-being are really closely connected.
And there are no like beating around the bush on this.
It is.
And it can go to the extent of not just anxiety or stress or high BP or diabetes.
It goes to cancer, heart diseases, and every single thing.
I have got clients who you could see how they have progressed in their healing just because
they are able to speak, just because they are able to take out all the pain or all the
things that they have been holding on.
And that has made a difference.
You know, letting go sometimes of the bitterness is directly related to how physically it shows
up.
So it's not just the gut.
It's all together that mental as well as physical is one thing.
And I wish more and more healthcare professionals would take that into account, and many do.
So there are like doctors who would immediately ask you to go to someone who can help you
with your mental side as well.
And it's something, it's holistic.
Everything is holistic.
Everything is interconnected.
So one doesn't work without the other.
Like when I have someone coming to me with say depression or something, the first thing
I do is a move exercise.
And that immediately has some kind of effect.
And then you come back.
And then I will have a look at what you are eating, what you are consuming, how much of
it is processed, how much of it is sugar.
But it is all interconnected.
I cannot just help you heal mentally if I'm not looking at your lifestyle, your sleep,
your exercise routine.
It's all together.
And I think that's where the collaboration come in.
If you are looking at well-being, we are not looking at just one person.
We are looking collective.
And there has to be a collaboration by everyone to say this is how everybody lives up.
Yeah.
And I love that you said the immediate effect of exercise.
I think so much of my job as a fitness and nutrition coach is convincing women to exercise,
giving them all the motivation and pep talks they need to exercise.
But what's cool about exercise versus something that might be more daunting, like a course
of physical therapy, for example, is that it's immediate.
You go out for a walk in the fresh sunshine.
And I promise you, you will feel better than 15 minutes previously when you were inside
in a dark room feeling crap about yourself.
100%.
And feeling crap about your body.
Yes.
And I think that's another episode, but exercise is scientifically the most effective antidepressant
that's non-pharmaceutical that we have.
So if mental health professionals and wellness professionals can emphasize and bold text
that message to every woman we come in contact with, I think the world would be a much healthier
place.
And I mean that on both sides.
Yes, absolutely.
And when you said that go for a walk in the sunshine, you actually touched on two or three
things together.
It's sunshine, it's a walk.
And it's that, as I was saying, I am doing something about it.
I am taking action.
I'm taking action.
I'm empowered, you know, and that makes all the difference.
Sure does.
It's so funny because I actually had a conversation with a potential client yesterday and she
said, oh, I hear it's 80% diet versus 20% exercise for weight loss.
And I said, well, kind of, because you can't out exercise a bad diet.
Sure can't.
But don't, that does not mean don't exercise.
What that means is go out and exercise not only for your cardiovascular health, but also
for your mental well-being.
Like you need the exercise.
Don't just focus on it as a weight loss tool, you know.
Exactly.
Well, and again, that brings us back to our, you know, what is the purpose of exercise?
If the purpose is only weight loss, eventually you will be spinning your wheels.
That's not a lifelong purpose.
Exactly.
So my husband always says to me, don't project your stress on me because I'm such a talker.
Like when I feel like something is getting to me, I will just go out there and I'll sort
of say it out loud, whether he's listening or he's not listening.
But I feel like, you know, I need to get it out.
How much of, you know, talking it out, does it, does how much of talking it out, does
it help?
Does that make sense?
I don't even want to say that.
I get you.
Yes, it helps.
But then it doesn't help everyone.
Okay.
So I mean, as I said, what works for you, only you will know.
So if that's what works for you, you need to do that.
However, I must mention that one of the things that we always ask the clients to do is if
something is bothering you rather than keep it and, you know, let it marinate, say it.
Oh, I love that term.
Let it marinate.
Yeah.
That's exactly what I would say.
So say it, but say it doesn't always mean speak it.
You can always write it.
Or, you know, I have a few clients who don't like writing, journaling.
No, I cannot do it.
And I don't feel like speaking it out.
So what do you do?
So they take on their phone and then just speak to the phone and they delete it.
Amazing.
And that's okay.
That's okay.
Basically, just take it out.
And it can come in terms of, you know, I speak to my sister, I find a friend and I find sometimes
a stranger to talk to or I'm writing it down in a journal, maybe I'm speaking it out somewhere
and getting it over with.
But then again, it's like the needs to speak is different for different people.
But what I'm talking about here is if you feel there's some unfairness in your life
or you're stuck or something that I have against someone, some kind of anger, that has to
be conveyed rather than kept in sight.
And sometimes it is okay to have just one outburst or one, it doesn't even have to be
an outburst, honestly, it can just have like one conversation or a letter or whatever,
an email.
I have taken it out rather than feeling I'm the victim because I took some action.
I'm the hero of my story here.
That's the game changer.
How do you know when someone needs more than just talk therapy?
Like at what point would you realize that this is sort of more ingrained deep within
and how can you help that person?
So what you're saying is going beyond just talking it out.
Okay, as I said, stress is okay or any of the things that's happening to you is okay
if it is just for a short time and you rest or you talk it out or you do something, exercise
and you're quite better.
But if it is prolonged, it's just not getting okay.
One thing is it is impacting every area of your life, whether there's relationship, whether
the output, what you are able to do otherwise and it's impacting.
You're fatigued all the time or you're irritated all the time.
Or what happens a very telltale sign is that your threshold of annoyance really changes,
right?
You're getting really upset with small little things.
What was okay and you could really handle so much, but now you're not.
Those are the little signs that something is not okay.
Another thing is there's a lot of muscle aches, headaches, digestion issues.
Those things come up, right?
And then sleep, how your appetite, you see changes.
You see changes in the way your skin looks, your hair feels.
So there are like small, small things and it's, of course, we'll all go through all
kind of little bouts of haven't slept well or have trouble or whatever it is.
But if this just goes on and on and usually your loved ones would know and they would
say something like you're getting so restless or you're so snappy or you're losing your
cool, those are the cues.
So that's when you realize you need something more than just talking it out.
You need professional help there.
We call the 40s the no shits given decade.
If you feel like when you get to this point, you don't really care.
You just do what you need to do.
But what would you say is sort of the difference between not giving a shit, but also becoming
just a grumpy old man, I guess.
How do you stop yourself from turning into that annoying nosy neighbor?
You know, the whole thing is this stage from say 40 to 65, which is called as middle adulthood.
I love that you said middle.
I did.
So the most important purpose of this stage in terms of psychosocial terms is that you
have this need and urge to give, to pass on what you know to someone else.
And that's where the mentoring comes in.
That's where volunteering comes in.
That's where taking care of someone else comes in, and that's the difference between I don't
give a shit, but I don't turn into a grumpy old person.
That is the difference between that.
So I don't care, you know, because I've lived my life.
I have come to a point where I have my resources.
I'm the strongest I've ever been in all kind of sense.
So I don't have to listen to someone else telling me what to do because I've come out
of all the labels that people have given me.
I have finally arrived and I know who I am and what I want.
So that's very empowering, right?
On the other hand, as I said, sometimes you get fixated on, I know, and this is what's
going to last.
No.
So just to be, just to have that humility that even this will change and I'm open to
change and yet to understand that my main task and purpose is to give in some form,
whether to take care of my parents, whether to take care of my children, whether to find
someone else to mentor.
So it is good for people to understand that this stage is going to rely a lot on how much
of what we have learned can be passed on either in terms of what you're doing, you're passing
on information, writing a book, writing something else for somebody else, or just helping out.
Even if it is helping out your neighbor by giving some piece of advice that you have,
it's also passing on information.
So this age has to understand that this is their role and if they do it, it's beautiful.
Yeah.
I was watching last night the documentary about life in the blue zones and they were
talking about one of the reasons that Singapore is now a blue zone is because of how Singapore
incentivizes multi-generational living and living, you know, having multiple generations
of families living together.
And I live in a multi-generational home and I think that resonates so beautifully with
the fact that my in-laws can pass on their knowledge to the kids, their knowledge to
myself.
You know, my husband and I have a constant reminder of a successful relationship living
in our home, right, his parents, and our kids see that.
And I think that, you know, having access to that information sharing environment and
that love and connecting environment is really powerful.
And I think that it benefits us in our 40s and I should definitely say me in my 40s,
my husband is young and fresh, and also, you know, his parents in their 60s.
I think that everyone is getting a happiness and a mental health benefit just by intergenerate
multi-generational living.
So that's we're coming back to the thing.
Isolation is bad.
We don't.
And okay, now, you know, people listening in who might not have the whole family thing
might feel I'm losing out, but that's not the case.
What I'm trying to say is we got to think of, you know, the whole community as a family.
We have to think of probably even the whole world as a family.
It doesn't have to be, oh, me and my sibling or my daughter or my husband.
That's restricting.
What I'm trying to say is the most beautiful part of this stage is to understand we can
open up.
We don't have to start dividing or we don't have to start, you know, restricting ourselves.
We can open up and include people, include everybody.
So that's where it is.
Give.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Priyanka, it's been absolutely incredible having you here today.
But before we say goodbye, we do have one final question we would like to ask you.
And it's what's your 40s formula?
Can you share any piece of wisdom, advice to our listeners about how you can thrive
in your 40s?
Okay.
I think a little piece of information I have moved out of 40s.
But the thing is, if I say 40s was, or still probably is, if I can just put it in that
way, is really a thriving time.
And I'm reiterating that people start feeling sad that I'm losing out on this, this, this,
this, this, but there's so much to gain.
And you flourish.
This is the stage to flourish.
My 40s formula is to evolve, to not get fixated on what I think is the best or what I have
known to be the best, which means I'm ready to change.
Someone tells me something that I think is, wow, cool.
And that can be a 15-year-old that I just met.
And that's okay.
I'm ready to accept.
So that's one.
The second thing is to move.
And I love dancing.
So you know, like finding different ways to keep moving.
And I'm also using it as a symbolic stance that not to stay in one place and not to have
a stagnation in what you do and how you think to move.
And I think just to enjoy the process, not to compete with anyone.
That has been like a real big game changer, not to always compete, look at someone and
see how I'm feeling bad about myself.
I think my profession is such that someone else succeeds.
It's good for me.
Right?
So that also has become my mantra that when I see other people succeed, I'm happy.
So there is like too many reasons to be happy then because someone is always succeeding
somewhere.
So yeah, that's how I have.
Another thing that I have to say is to slow down and look inwards, to grow in self-awareness
and to understand what's working and what's not working.
And that's where the instinct comes in to rely more and more on the instinct and go
with it, go with the flow.
Lovely.
Amazing.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for having me.
Yeah, we are so happy to have had you today, Priyanka.
Thank you.
This is Paul, our editor.
He's a 25 year old unmarried Singaporean guy listening to the ramblings of 12 older
women on everything from menopause to weightlifting to sex.
Paul, what's your thoughts on today's conversation?
So as a young person, I will often question myself like what exactly is happiness?
Because I'm in a situation in life where I'm pretty much not sure about where I would
want to take my career and life afterwards.
And the main thing for people around my age, I guess, is probably finance, career directions
and a sense of purpose in life, all three of which I'm pretty much lacking at the moment.
So I've always wondered how can I be happy and pretty much being less stressed about
all these life issues in my current situation life while staying realistic to things at
the same time.
So I don't know, just an open question, I guess.
So just another thought for another day.
All right, catch you guys next time.
See you all.
Hey guys, did you know that you can leave us questions and comments on FanList?
That's right.
On fanlist.com slash the forties formula, you can leave us a voice note where you can
ask us anything, leave us your feedback or just say hi.
Sapnam gave us a five star review.
Amazing.
What an amazing podcast.
Having just hit my 40s, this is relatable, inspiring, funny and right up my street.
Love the different perspectives and very practical advice.
Thanks ladies.
We're so glad we were able to inspire you, Sapnam.
Thank you so much.
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conversations with inspiring guests.
Bye.
I have to say you said your past your forties.
You look incredible.
I thought you were like right here with us.
I'm right here with you.
I'm right here with everybody.
I didn't want to say my daughter is his age.
Wow.
No way.
Do you mind us asking how old you are?
Yeah.
In fifties.
Wow.
You look amazing.
Like I never would have thought so.
I genuinely thought.
In fact, I remember you asking is Pyrrhon Kiernan 40s questioning whether you were in your thirties.
Yes.
We have a couple of guests that are just in their late thirties.
You know, so they're not in their forties yet.
And then you and one other guest, which I won't call out for her own sake, are past.
But that's great because I feel like you're then giving us the knowledge of going past
your forties.
So amazing.
Yeah.
You've been through.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.