Hello and welcome to the 40s Formula, your go-to place for insightful discussions on
navigating your 40s and thriving in this transformative decade.
We're your hosts, Amanda and Jasmine, two women that are passionate about exploring
the challenges and adventures that come with turning 40 and what lies ahead.
Today we're chatting with Sarah Murphy, founder and stylist at The Reoutfitter, a personal
styling company focusing on shopping and dressing better.
And she really means better, both for you and the environment.
In addition to helping normal, real women sort out their wardrobes and shop, The Reoutfitter
also helps sell their clients' designer pieces through their online and showroom platforms.
She contributes to panels and collaborates with events around sustainable fashion, hosting
pop-ups all over the city to spread the word on the power of secondhand fashion and encouraging
women to participate in the circular economy.
I am so excited to be here today with Sarah Murphy, who is a personal stylist and founder
of The Reoutfitter.
And if you're here in Singapore, it is the premier secondhand clothing shop and service,
so we'll talk a bit more about that.
And I think what's cool about having Sarah here, besides that she looks amazing and is
one of those women who looks effortlessly cool from the moment she wakes up to the moment
she goes to bed, is talking about not only how we dress in our 40s, not only how we look
in our 40s, but how we can enter a circular economy and sustainable fashion life in our
40s.
I love to hear about this.
So, Sarah, welcome.
Thank you for having me.
We are so excited.
And what's cool about you is that you came from that real, real fashion world, the double
wears Prada movie style fashion world.
And then you came into this place where you are disrupting a lot of what that world stands
for.
Can you talk about why you do what you do?
Yeah.
Oh my God, that's such a loaded question.
But yeah, when I think about it's funny when you think about that real world fashion world,
in the industry, when you save the fashion industry, it can sound so creative and fun
in a way, right?
There's designers, there's stylists, there's creatives.
You see the shows, the things you see in Vogue.
All of that is this creative industry.
But what you don't see is the corporate side.
And that's the side that I was on.
So I was a buyer, I was in production, I had done planning, merchandising, all of the kind
of numbers stuff that happens in the background.
And when you work on that side, you just kind of realize that the fashion industry is just
another big corporate industry, right?
It's the same thing as like, you know, there are levels of bureaucracy.
There are certain things you can and cannot say.
And you know, because I kind of bounced around a lot growing up and moving country to country,
I was never really at one place for a long time.
And so when you don't have seniority in a corporate environment, there's certain things
you can and cannot say.
Right?
So it's not really kosher for me to be like, hey, maybe we should think about how we're
overproducing X, Y, Z. Right?
Like I'm not allowed to talk about that.
But those are all things that I was thinking about.
And so that's sort of what drives what I do now is like, I'm going to just be open about
it.
Like I'm just going to full on talk about the sustainability thing with my clients,
because it's a huge part of fashion.
It's a huge thing that people don't see, just like the corporate side of fashion they don't
see.
Yeah.
And I'll be honest, I was one of those people.
I did not give a second thought to my consumption patterns until I met and started following
you.
And I'll be dead honest with that.
So that, you know, luckily I was just before 40.
But now that I'm in my 40s, it is something that I have committed to because of the work
that you do.
And, you know, I feel almost shameful in a way that I didn't have better habits when
I, you know, before this.
But that's why the work that you're doing is so important, because it shines a light
on something that I don't think a lot of us are familiar with, you know.
I mean, I totally agree, because I think that I'm kind of in this transition period in my
life where I want to spend the money.
It's not that I can't spend the money, but I know if I should spend the money on clothes
and you know, you kind of think, oh, well, maybe I just buy a $10 top as opposed to a
$150 top.
But, you know, how can you go about understanding that it is about quality over quantity?
Yeah.
I mean, that's like the bulk of what I do with my clients.
And you're not alone, by the way.
This is like a very common thing.
Okay, great, because we both feel bad.
Yeah.
Don't feel like you're like ashamed to tell me this.
Basically every single person has told me this.
But I like to think of it as like investing in yourself, right?
Like I think too, the older we get, we kind of know where we want to spend our money,
right?
Like, oh, I went to that facialist and she F'ed up my face.
I'm going to go to the next one.
You know, even if it costs $10 more.
I like to take that approach with clothing too, or even with food and the things we consume,
right?
Like if we have the means to do so, we're going to buy the organic option or we're going
to buy whatever the healthier option is.
Why not do that with clothes?
And I do find that a lot of my clients, when they are wearing something that is quote unquote
better, so maybe it's a better fabric or it's made better or it costs more, whatever better
means to you, they actually feel better about themselves on the inside.
Yeah.
And you say that on your website, right?
You say clothing makes us aspire to be the best versions of ourselves.
And if we are being serious, right?
First of all, most women, I think, would agree that we like to look good, right?
We like to give off an impression of ourselves that is favorable, pretty, stylish, whatever
it may be.
But secondly, can you be honest and say that you feel like the best version of yourself
in a $5 sheen dress that you know is built on the backs of people that are being underpaid
and abused?
Like, no, you can't, right?
I think that you're one of the few stylists that that mission is actually part of your
work.
Aspiring to the best version of yourself is also in the way that you consume fashion.
Absolutely.
And it's sometimes the whole sustainable fashion conversation can get really heavy.
Yeah, it can.
Yeah, I won't even get into like all of that here because you guys are like, nope, don't
even want to touch that.
But it is, it does make a really big difference.
And it's not, I'm not saying to go and buy designer XYZ all the time, right?
But a lot of it could be even as simple as like, let's go through your wardrobe.
Let's see what everything you have and let's figure out what you need because there's always
some gaps there, right?
And then if you have that knowledge of like the things that you're missing that can help
elevate the rest of your wardrobe, those are the things that then you can go buy.
And you know, we can work on a budget with that too, right?
Like do we need a cheaper version of this or do we need a more expensive version of
this?
It's all these little subtle things that you can start to do.
So in your 40s, a lot of women may, well not a lot of women, but some women may start to
experience changes in their body types and then they just don't feel comfortable wearing
any type of clothes.
How can women dress to make themselves feel better no matter what their size?
That is a great question.
Another loaded one for you.
Yeah, another loaded one.
No, it's great.
And I think this, as much as I talk about not over consuming, I do think that if you
are in a phase of pregnancy, breastfeeding, menopause, something is going on and it's
changing, you deserve to go get a few pieces of clothing that are going to make you feel
good about yourself.
As a pregnant lady, I'm hearing this girl.
I'm hearing this.
Yeah, but it's, it's, it's, um, that's the time that I actually say let's go shopping,
right?
Cause it's, it's okay, right?
I know we're not going to go and buy like the entire store at H&M, so we're good.
But if it means getting you that one white shirt that you've been wanting to wear that
pairs with everything, let's just go and get it.
You know, like spend a little bit on yourself, make yourself feel good.
I also think that accessories are, this is just a practical tip here.
I think accessories can make or break an entire outfit and that is something that will always
fit, right?
Like an earring, unless you're like hole goes away, like you can go get it re-pierced.
Yeah.
It just happened to me.
Yes, exactly.
My hole sealed up right before my sister's wedding and I hate freaking needles.
I had to go and get it redone.
Re-pierced?
Did you go to Claire's?
I did actually go to Claire's.
Oh, did you really?
Amazing.
But even, you know, like a simple necklace, right?
And maybe there's like a sentimental value to that necklace.
Throw that guy on over your old shirt.
It's going to instantly make you feel a little bit better about yourself.
Yeah.
And you're wearing this gorgeous necklace right now that I love and I see on your social
media all the time.
Is this, would you consider this a signature piece?
And if so, do you think it's worthwhile for women to invest in like signature pieces,
whether it's accessories or clothing?
Absolutely.
So this, this is by a designer, Lulu Frost, who's a New York based designer.
And I actually, when I first started out in the industry, I interviewed with her because
I wanted to work with her so bad.
But at the time I didn't realize like how small of a company she was.
And now that I have a small business, I'm like, oh girl, I get it.
I wouldn't have hired me either.
But yeah, it's like, I bought this over 10 years ago and every time I wear it, I get
compliments and I don't think anyone has ever said, oh, Sarah, you're wearing that necklace
again.
You know, like it's always something positive.
And so I think that can also help you kind of realize, all right, I just need one really
cool thing.
Yeah.
And that, see, I think that that mentality is something that I see in your social media
messaging also, which is we need to break out of this idea that every time you see someone
go somewhere, have an event, you have to be in a different outfit.
And if you're in the same outfit, it's somehow uncool or unworthy.
How do you help women get out of that?
Because I think that messaging is so persistent from us from a young age.
It is.
And I think, unfortunately, it's getting worse with how cheap clothes are getting.
This is actually why I love working with women in their forties, because most of them just
don't give any Fs anymore.
Yeah, my Fs are limited.
And they're just kind of tired of it.
And the ones that I can convince to get, you know, wear the same dress out or whatever,
like they'll say, oh, my God, Sarah, I got so many compliments.
It's like one great dress will give you double the compliments if you wear them to multiple
events as opposed to like five dresses that you wear to different events.
And they're all just like mediocre.
Yeah, fair enough.
Yeah.
I bought a dress last week, which while I was there, I thought, wow, I love this dress.
It's so flattering.
It makes me look amazing.
And then I bought it home and I was like, oh, shit, what was I thinking now?
So you know, like, what would you say to somebody when that happens?
Because I'm just like, I don't know.
I don't know if it was the lighting.
I don't know if it was just my frame of mind.
But you know, these sort of spontaneous buys.
I call them the emergency shopping buys.
They never work out.
Sometimes they do.
Like, legit, sometimes they do.
Most of the time when you go shopping with that frame of mind, like, I'm just going to
run in and buy something real quick to wear it tomorrow.
It never works, which is why I always say it's good to assess your wardrobe as a whole
first before you go shopping, because then you're going to buy the things that you really
need and that way you can take your time with it.
Right.
Like you don't have to like, oh, no, I have that thing.
I have to go tomorrow.
I got to go buy something real quick because it just never works out.
And then you never feel great about it either.
But they're vanity mirrors and lighting is a thing.
Like it is a legit thing.
And we've all been victims of that for sure.
But I honestly feel like I need to install vanity lighting in my home like I have done
for my makeup because I feel like then that would make my own pieces just, you know, look
a lot more appealing to me when I pull them out of my closet.
It couldn't hurt.
Yeah, no, it definitely couldn't hurt.
All you got to do is like angle the mirror a little bit.
Yeah.
Just like give yourself like two inches.
Just a little taller.
Thinner.
Yeah.
Oh, I like that.
Yeah.
Well, I think what's cool about going into your shop, Sarah, is you go in there and at
least in my experience, I go in there and I tell you what I'm there for and you kind
of prepare pieces for me before I get there.
And I liken this to like the online dating world right now, right?
Where it's like you go on to Tinder or whatever app and there's limitless possibilities.
So all you do is swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe.
And it's like this kind of addiction to that swiping.
And that's kind of how modern shopping is at fast fashion shops.
You go into your H&M's, your Zara's, your whatever, you go on your Shein website and
it's like the options are so limitless that you can't help but look, look, look, look,
you know, and be tempted to consume, consume.
Whereas when you go into a secondhand shop and someone's preparing a one of a kind piece
for you, that is a completely different style of shopping.
How do you kind of get women to change from going into a place where their options are
limitless, which sounds appealing, to going into a place where there's one of a kind pieces
that are curated for their specific needs?
Right.
Well, first of all, I mean, not to be like a Debbie Downer here, but let's just say that
even with pre-love shopping, it can be as you are describing.
So what happens when we walk into a giant thrift store or a giant pre-loved warehouse,
we get all excited, right?
You're like, oh my God, there's a Gucci this for a hundred dollars.
I'm going to get this.
I'm going to get that.
We like, it's the thrill of the bargain that drives us.
So whether we're shopping pre-loved or we're shopping at fast fashion or whatever it is,
even at luxury stores, there's a thrill, right?
And so what we're trying to do, at least at my showroom is it's not about the thrill.
I mean, it could be obviously if you get something great and it looks awesome on you, I'm going
to cheer you on.
I'm always thrilled.
I love it.
I'll get thrilled for you.
But no, it's really, we've purposely driven our showroom to be a place where it's by appointment
only because we believe in working one-on-one with people.
We believe in finding you what you need as opposed to like, oh, it's okay if you want
to just come in and browse.
That's fine too.
But there are more and more customers like you who come in and say, I have like a work
interview or I have a wedding to go to.
And I'm like, great, what's your budget?
Like let's do this.
Cause it's pre-loved.
We have everything from $500 to $50.
And I think when there's a place to shop like that, it really opens people up to a different
experience of what shopping means and what clothes can mean to you.
I think in today's day and age, it's just so hard to go shopping.
Like the pressure, the, you know, not being able to afford XYZ or not knowing if they
have your size is a really big common problem.
But just to be able to walk in and someone say, Hey, you know what, can you help me?
Like these are the things I'm looking for.
My body is XYZ.
Like cool, let's just help you.
And so that's what we're really trying to create with the showroom.
And I hopefully, hopefully we, that's what we're doing.
Well, can we talk about sizing for a quick second?
Oh girl.
Yeah.
So I think a lot of reasons that women are drawn to fast fashion is because more fast
fashion brands are getting savvy about offering plus size, different size, multiple size.
And women are, you know, when they know, like, and again, even for me, right, because I am
a pregnant woman right now.
I know if I go to Sheen, I can get cheap maternity stuff, right?
And that's, that is in a way appealing.
How does the preloved and circular economy address that need of women with greater size
diversity and different types of clothing needs?
That's a great question.
And I don't think that we do it very well, to be honest.
So what happens, at least in my experience, what I have noticed is yes, there is more
options in fast fashion, but the resistance to buying better items changes as the sizing
is harder to get.
So talking about clients who are very petite versus those are very large or need a plus
size, they don't want to spend a lot on themselves because they don't think that they deserve
it.
And that's where I come in and I say, it doesn't matter what size you are or whatever your
proportions are, you do deserve nice clothes.
We just have to find them.
It's just going to be harder to find.
So when you add that resistance of like, okay, it's already harder for me to find clothes
at my size at, you know, a middle range price point.
And then they try to go preloved, but just because of the nature of Singapore, this is
Singapore specific, but you know, let's be honest, we're there, smaller people in this
country, it's harder to find.
So then you're adding that other barrier of like, ah, then I can't even find them preloved.
And so I don't think it's done well yet.
And that's something that I really aspire to do better.
But at the same time, I have to get more people to then invest in themselves and want to buy
better things because then that way they will want to sell those things when they're done
with them.
And then there will be more availability to everybody else.
So as a short girl, five foot three, I definitely struggle with that.
So like if I was to buy something, I usually have to get it tailored, especially trousers,
got little legs, you know, like always way too long on me.
But then afterwards, if I want to sell it on or I want to get rid of it, doesn't that
then change sort of the product, I guess?
It does.
But you're not alone, right?
There's always something for somebody.
And even outside of sizing, right?
Like I have a very distinct style.
There are things that we resell at my shop I would not be caught dead in.
Milkmaid chic.
Sexy milkmaid.
Sexy milkmaid is one of them.
We come up with lots of fun terms for like the aesthetics we have in our shop.
Because when you sell pre-loved, like there is not just one aesthetic.
We got everything.
Every aesthetic.
Or I like the what's the mother-in-law, mother-in-law bridal dress.
Mother of the bride.
Mother of the groom.
Harsh.
No, but there is something for everybody always.
And that's kind of the beauty of keeping a pre-loved selection there for my clients.
Because my clients are typically the ones like you that have something about their body
that makes it difficult to get dressed in binormal clothes off the rack.
But then I know that I have this collection of things that have been tailored or let's
say it's a size small but it fits like a medium.
Like I'm like, okay, let's ignore the size.
Let's just try it.
And so you're not alone.
And there is always something for everybody.
So gal, I was balancing the books on our family budget the other day and I realized...
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And now back to our chat.
But what about, again, it's a psychological thing.
Some women have it in their head, like, I am not going to wear a medium.
Doesn't matter how it fits.
It says medium, I'm a small.
How do you convince someone that it's not about the sizing?
Oh my gosh, yeah.
It's about the way it fits or it looks.
If I could take off size tags everywhere, like, I would go and do it.
Like if I could just get an army of people to cut the sizing out, I would do it.
Yeah, so we actually, in my showroom at least, we don't organize things by size, which I
know is probably the easier way to shop.
But I'm like, no, I'm going to make it difficult for you.
Because it's so much easier for me and my team to look at somebody and be like, oh,
this is going to fit versus that.
And there is always a resistance to like, oh, there's no way I'm going to fit into that.
And we're like, but you know, the cutting's really big.
So we do our best to explain it.
But there are times where it is super psychological and we just can't, we can't break through
to that.
And ultimately for those customers, it's beyond a clothing problem.
Fair, fair.
Clothing can do a lot of things, but it's not always a mental health solution.
I try to solve all the problems, but sometimes I know when I am needed when I'm not needed.
Well speaking of mental health issues, I personally, when I was in my 20s and 30s, I kind of accumulated
a closet that looked a bit schizophrenic.
I will say it looked like it was owned by 10 different people because there was athletic
Amanda and there was going to Vegas on the weekends, Amanda.
And there was professional Amanda.
I'm going to see the gate to Vegas.
Oh, there was a lot of going to Vegas.
Do you still have that stuff?
Oh, that is a story for another time friends.
But there was a time where I was going to Vegas four to six times a year.
Wow.
So there was a lot of party clothes.
Party clothes was a part of my wardrobe.
But because of my resistance to give up any of that stuff, I arrived in Singapore in 2015
with the most multiple personality disordered closet you've probably ever seen.
And it took me almost 10 years to get a stylist in to actually have a look at that closet
because it is so confusing and embarrassing to kind of open up your closet doors to someone.
When you approach a closet like that, Sarah, and you see a client that just kind of has
no sense of continuity or consistency in their closet, what are the first steps you take
with someone like that?
I would say that you're not alone.
I think almost everybody has a little bit of multiple personality disorder within their
wardrobe.
And I don't think that everybody needs to have one distinct style.
I dress very differently when I'm working with clients than when I do going out for
dinner.
I'm like boho girl at night, corporate by day.
And that's totally fine.
But what I always say to my clients, and this always comes out, and I'm not sure if this
was your experience when you worked with your stylist, but as you go through everything
you own, believe it or not, you do have a taste.
And you do have specifics.
So going back to like your Vegas dresses, right?
There might have been aspects of those Vegas dresses that you liked that can be incorporated
into the boho style or the corporate Amanda.
Like there are different ways.
And it's really talking about the specifics of the garment.
So it's like, oh, I loved this because it was a strapless and I love to show my shoulders.
Great.
How can we incorporate that in a more grown up way or in a different way?
So it's actually neon Lycra.
Doesn't have sequins.
But no, I think there's, I think it's a lot of work.
And most people, most women probably don't want to go through this process of narrowing
down the schizophrenia into something that makes sense.
But really the only way to do it is by going through everything you bought in the past,
because at some point you loved that item.
You had plans for that item.
And so let's talk about that, right?
If it executed the plan that you wanted or if it didn't, let's figure it out.
I think some of these, there's a lot of styling nowadays where it's like, oh my gosh, like
let's look at this look book or, you know, certain creators on Instagram you can follow
that have a very specific look.
And you're like, yeah, like I want to look like that.
But it's not realistic.
Like those people have other styles in their wardrobe as well.
So it's really matching it back to your lifestyle and the specifics of what you like.
What kind of tips would you give someone in their forties or fifties about how to dress
their body?
So I'm 40 and I, I don't know, I don't know if I've got a particular look.
Some people will come up to me and say, oh, I saw this dress and I think it's totally
you.
Yes.
So like I said, I think everybody does have a style, whether they want to admit it or
not.
Most of my clients will say, oh, I have no distinct style.
I have no idea what I'm doing when I go shopping.
But when I look at their wardrobe, it says otherwise, it says something.
And so this is where it's like, you know, think really hard about why you love something.
Is it the fabric?
Is it the cut?
Is it the brand?
Like that could be it too.
And figure out how you can build a wardrobe around those things that you like and ignore
the rest of it.
The nice thing about my clients in their forties and fifties is they have a pretty clear idea
of what they like and what they don't like.
And I think a lot of them are surprised at the variety of things that they can find that
actually fit into like their values.
Like, oh, it's still comfortable.
Oh, surprise.
Right.
It's still a natural fiber.
Great.
So, yeah.
What about the women who are still dressing like they were 20?
You don't look like that, by the way.
Thanks.
Yeah, this is a challenging one because I think the older we get as women, there is
a part of us that wants to look younger.
Right.
And I think sometimes picking out the younger styles can actually age you further.
So it's the idea of like a short floral mini dress or a mini skirt that, yeah, it looks,
it still looks great on your body and by all means wear it.
But how do we make it a little bit more grown up?
Like how do we find the pieces that are a bit more sophisticated that originally you
would have said, oh, that's going to age me.
Like I don't want to look 35.
But actually when you pair it well with the mini skirt, it could look a little bit more
elevated.
Yeah.
And I love that term elevated.
I think a huge part of my own kind of style transition has been from I want to look hot
to I want to look chic.
And I feel like that is actually something that I have just come into in my 40s.
And it's a hard one.
It's almost like in the back of my mind, I feel like I have to give up looking hot in
order to look chic.
And I know that that is not exactly how it works.
But you can imagine, I think you've probably had clients with that same process.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
And I think we're the closet full of Vegas dresses.
But so much of it too is like showing off a certain part of their body.
Right?
So like we all have a certain part of our body that we're insecure about or that we
want to show off.
But what I love to show people is like, okay, I know you love your arms.
Cool.
But what happens if we cover them?
It's almost like it's more chic because nobody knows what's under there.
Yeah.
That's what I always say.
Nobody knows about damn guns.
Yeah.
Or like a big old wide pant.
I'm like, nobody knows about those sexy legs.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like you know about them and you feel great about them.
But there's something a little bit understated about that, right?
Like being like, I know I have good legs.
I don't need to show them off.
Yeah.
And that is, I feel like that is a sign of maturity in dressing that takes a while to
get to.
It takes a while.
Yeah.
I mean, look, I have clients in my 40s and 50s that still aren't there yet.
And that's why I'm there.
I'm like, let me help you get there.
Yeah.
You know?
Well, Gail, I wanted to shift gears a little bit and talk a bit about your personal journey
in terms of kind of when you transition out of the fashion fashion world into your current
business and what happened in between.
So in 2016, you left the corporate fashion world.
You became a stay at home mom.
You descended into the world of nursing bras and sweatpants.
Like so many of us can relate to.
But you mentioned that that's kind of a place where you had a complete loss of self identity.
And I would love to hear about how just the change in roles and the change in your style
felt like that loss to you.
Yeah.
So when I gave birth to my daughter in 2016, you know, you hear these things like, oh,
when you're pregnant, you can still wear this and this.
I was not one of those people.
Like I completely changed sizes.
There was no way, even like the biggest loose dress I had.
There was just no way like my ribs had changed.
My entire upper body had changed, which I didn't think would ever happen when I was
pregnant.
Right.
And so and I wasn't working and I was I moved to a different country.
I'd moved to Hong Kong from New York.
So I don't even know where to go shopping or what.
And I didn't feel like spending money or time on it.
And so I literally ended up wearing a nursing bra and sweatpants or leggings every single
day.
And I think a part of that too was intentional.
It was my way of being like, I am not in the fashion industry.
I'm not participating.
And that's all cool until, you know, I have to work and like, you know, I got to pay the
bills.
And when that's all I've known, like I got to go back to fashion.
It's just what I know.
Right.
I think the other thing too that I would say is super important, at least for my journey,
was having mom friends go through the same thing with me.
So I gave birth to two kids within 17 months, so two under two.
And I had a really tight knit group of mom friends from my first kid.
But when I had my second, I was kind of the only one that had two.
So I was like juggling the thing.
And then I started to see all my other mom friends have their second or third.
And they were really frustrated about their clothes and dressing as well.
And then that's when I was like, OK, well, my kids are getting older now.
I'm done.
You know, like I'm done after two.
I'm not doing this again.
And I was like, wait, but I felt the same way.
And I have this knowledge that I can help you.
And I think those were kind of like my first test clients were my friends.
I was like, let's go shopping.
Like, do you want to go shopping?
Let's go find some things to make you feel better about yourself.
And then I realized, oh, I can do this.
Well, it sounds like for you, the switch from just being in fashion as someone who works
there and being in fashion, someone who's serving others was a huge transition.
Absolutely.
And, you know, when I was in my university college days, even in high school, I've always
worked retail.
So like working retail is, you know, as difficult as it is, you actually help people.
And there's a lot of times where I feel super satisfied because somebody comes into the
store and they tell me, oh, I need something, something, and I help them.
There's something just very satisfying about that is helping somebody else through fashion
as opposed to helping my corporate partners.
Yeah, exactly.
And it was a way that I realized, oh, like there is this other side of fashion.
It doesn't have to be the corporate this all the time.
So I mean, I kind of resonated with what you just said there, because I remember after
my boys were born, my body just ballooned.
I was probably about 30 kg heavier than I am now.
And I hated wearing clothes.
I was living in leggings.
You know, just I think I was actually wearing my husband's t-shirts at the time because
I was just like nothing fits.
And I refused to buy something because I don't want to.
I guess I just didn't want to embrace where I was because I was like, I'm not going to
stay here.
Yes.
But what I did love doing was going out and buying shoes because I could just look at
my feet and being like, oh, yes, this works.
Yeah.
I mean, I had nothing to wear with those shoes, but it did make me feel better.
Yeah.
And you know what?
If you got to do it, you got to do it.
Yeah.
Someone's told me, a person that was fashionable, if you have nice shoes and a nice bag, you
can be wearing a burlap sack and you still kind of can put it together.
So I hope that's the case.
Totally.
And I guess a lot of the time it can be just owning what you wear.
It doesn't matter how you wear it.
As long as you are dressing with confidence and owning it, I think does that kind of give
you that sort of sense of, I guess, confidence that you need, right?
Whether it is a burlap bag.
Absolutely.
I say this to my clients all the time, and this is why it is so important to invest in
yourself because the way that you walk out the door and the way you carry yourself when
you're wearing something you really love, it's different.
I can tell.
Whereas if you're still wearing your Forever 21 something and you're 41, you don't feel
it.
It ain't forever.
Sorry to say.
It's got to go.
And that's where making those small investments, it really makes a big difference.
But yeah, it is all about confidence.
And I think there's something really cool to that confidence and how it grows in your
40s, at least the way I see it through my clients.
It's nice.
It's definitely something my clients in their 30s don't have.
And I think it's exactly that.
So many of our guests here on the podcast in their different industries have been talking
about how the 40s is a time when you really come into your identity and you're really
able to say, this is what I stand for and this is who I am.
And I think clothing is one of the ways that we can express that most visibly and most
pleasurably.
Like I think the pleasure of purchasing clothing is something that we don't want to skip over
or minimize.
You know, one of the questions I wanted to ask you is like, how do you get over the guilt
of feeling like, you know, as a mom, as a career woman, as someone making their own
money, how do I get over the guilt of spending money on clothing and just be able to say,
it does make me feel better.
And that confidence is a value for me.
I always tell people you deserve it or you deserve better.
Right.
Like we're not talking about the going and buying a fast fashion haul here.
Right.
Like we're talking about like, oh my gosh, like my body has changed or I'm done breastfeeding
or whatever it is.
Like you deserve it.
Like in your 40s too, it's like our time is money.
And if you think about the amount of time you spent being like, oh, I don't want to
wear that thing again.
But then think about having a few great pieces in your wardrobe that you're excited to wear
and you're ready and out the door in 30 minutes.
Like that's money.
It saves you money in the end.
Right.
You're absolutely right.
Again, the transition from quantity to quality has been one of the major lessons that I
have learned from you.
And again, letting go of that guilt that, you know, I don't have to feel guilty because
I bought a dress that was more expensive than the one I bought in my 20s.
That's okay.
I think it's easy.
Like I can spend money on my boys.
I can buy my husband's stuff, but just spending it on myself.
That's where I struggle with.
And I don't know why that is.
I mean, I can go out.
Like you said, you mentioned food earlier.
I will spend a lot of money on food.
And my husband actually says to me, I think I'd prefer you to go out and actually buy
something tangible because you have it.
Anyway, you spent it.
But you know, I'll go out and I'll, you know, go to nice restaurants and I don't, you know,
I don't think about it twice because I'm like, no, you know, I want to nourish my body.
I want to make sure I'm eating the right food.
But when it comes to buying pieces, that's like this mental block that I just kind of,
I'm getting there.
I feel like I am getting there because I'm slowly starting to change.
I've stopped buying things from Shein.
I don't really go to, you know, these fast fashion brands anymore.
But it's just, you know, I think I need to clear out what I've currently got and just
get rid of the stuff that I'm no longer wearing and then reuse the stuff that I love.
I've got this one black dress.
I absolutely love it.
Any chance I get, I'm going to put it out.
It's a bit out there, but I know that every time I wear it, people say, oh, I love your
dress.
Where did you get it from?
See, I told you.
Proof is in the pudding.
I know someone who can help, by the way.
Sounds familiar.
No, but you absolutely deserve it.
You know, you only have one life to live.
Like go get yourself the nice thing.
Yeah, I love that message.
Yes, girl.
And speaking of messaging, right?
One of the questions that we've been asking all of our guests on the 40s formula is what
is your 40s formula?
So if you were to talk to a woman in her 40s and say this is what it takes to thrive and
be and look like your best self, what would that be?
It would be that what you wear on your body can give you the confidence on the outside
and on the inside.
I love it.
Invest in yourself.
Yes.
Definitely.
No guilt.
Let it go.
Yeah.
Oh, girl, thank you so much.
Thank you for having us and sharing the messages of sustainable fashion, the circular economy
and that it is not selfish to show your value through what you wear.
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you.
Thanks, Sarah.
Thanks.
Bye.
This is Paul, our editor.
He's a 25 year old unmarried Singaporean guy listening to the ramblings of 12 older
women on everything from menopause to weightlifting to sex.
So Paul, what's your thoughts on today's conversation?
For me, I'm actually a composer and arranger by training and I love my work that I do actually
surrounds a lot of creative work.
So in a way I can kind of relate to the part where Sarah, you actually mentioned about
the corporate side of things, which is the side of the creative industry where not a
lot of people actually see or think about.
Maybe it's the side where you talk about numbers, business and money and all.
So yeah, good touch on that.
So anyways, I really enjoyed this episode with all the fashion advice and it's something
that's really useful for someone like me who basically is someone who like sucks at fashion
because I really, really cannot match my clothes.
And yeah, you know, good point about that.
You know, like if it doesn't work, I guess then it doesn't work.
So oh boy, I got to sort my closet.
Anyways, thank you so much.
Catch you guys in the next episode.
See y'all.
Hey guys, did you know that you can leave us questions and comments on Fanlist?
That's right on fanlist.com slash the 40s formula.
You can leave us a voice note where you can ask us anything, leave us your feedback or
just say hi.
Swebby 2019 gave us this five star rating and added fantastic.
So happy that this podcast is out there for everyone.
Such a great thing to have.
Thank you so much, Swebby for your wonderful words.
It's so great that you're listening.
You are also very cool.
That's exactly what I'm saying.
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Bye.
She's like, so replace your 30 pairs of shit earrings with 30 pairs of every size of hoop.
I know.
And she was not wrong.
I know.
It's pretty much all I wear now.
If I'm not wearing studs, it's some size of hoop that is appropriate for the day.
And I was like, girl, if it's not wrong.
And what you mentioned in the actual podcast was like the time saved of me like looking
at all my cheap shitty earrings and figuring out which ones aren't broken and whatever
versus like, oh, I'll just wear this size of hoop and whatever color of jewelry or like
the mix and match thing.
I have a lot of clients like, I just don't know how to mix and match.
And I'm like, because none of your shit makes it.
That's like a harsh.
Again, that's like the typewriter short thing is like, it's a harsh reality.
You don't have that wardrobe, so you can't have that.
And then we go shopping and they're like, can I mix and match this?
I'm like, you tell me.
If I'm not doing it for you, you probably can't.
No, fair enough.