1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:20,920 Hey hey and welcome to the Forties Formula, your go-to place for insightful discussions 2 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,160 on navigating the forties and thriving in this transformative decade. 3 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:29,080 We're your hosts, Jasmine and Amanda, two women that are passionate about exploring 4 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:42,000 the challenges and adventures that come with turning 40 and what lies ahead. 5 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:45,880 Before we begin today's conversation, I want to point out that today's discussion touches 6 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,880 on a sensitive and challenging topic, infacility. 7 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:54,120 If you or someone you know is facing infacility, we want you to know that we're here today 8 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,600 with empathy, understanding and the intention to offer hope. 9 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,400 Our guest today is Tina Padia, a life and infatility coach. 10 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,720 Tina's story begins with the heartache of struggling to conceive but shines through 11 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:07,760 with the promise of hope. 12 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,200 Her journey to motherhood wasn't an easy one. 13 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:14,520 Tina's personal experience includes four grueling years of IVF treatments, surgeries, 14 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:20,440 hundreds of injections and the emotional toll that often comes with the territory. 15 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,040 Today's conversation might be a little tough for some as we delve into the challenges of 16 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:29,720 infertility, but it's a conversation that's important, empathetic and filled with hope. 17 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,440 We want you to know that you're not alone in this journey. 18 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:37,880 So whether you're personally affected by infertility, supporting someone who is or simply curious 19 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:42,440 about the profound impacts of this journey, we invite you to listen to this episode with 20 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:43,440 an open heart. 21 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:44,440 Hi, Tina. 22 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,920 Thank you for joining us today and sharing your incredible journey. 23 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:52,200 I know it couldn't have been easy what you went through, but do you mind sharing with 24 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,520 us your story and the emotions you went through while you were trying to conceive? 25 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:57,800 Thank you for having me. 26 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:03,440 Yeah, so my journey was a four-year journey, a four-year IVF journey. 27 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:08,660 So my husband and I moved to Singapore about seven years ago and we thought we'd just try 28 00:02:08,660 --> 00:02:11,720 naturally and see how we get on. 29 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,920 And we thought, okay, why not just, we were trying for six months and nothing was happening. 30 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:18,300 We weren't too worried, but we thought why don't we just get some routine fertility test 31 00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:20,200 on and just see what's going on. 32 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:24,120 So we got those done and mine all came back fine. 33 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,600 And then I called my husband and he went really quiet and I thought, okay, what's going on 34 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:28,600 here? 35 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:33,440 And at that point, we both had an appointment to see a gynaecologist, also an IVF specialist 36 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,280 at the time that we didn't know. 37 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,800 And she basically read the report and said, guys, I've got some really bad news for you. 38 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:44,680 Your husband has really low sperm number and sperm quality. 39 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,240 And we were like, okay, what does that mean? 40 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,280 And she was like, well, your chances of conceiving naturally are pretty much zero. 41 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,120 So you have to start IVF treatment kind of as soon as possible. 42 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:58,520 And we both were really numb and just completely shocked because it came out of nowhere. 43 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,960 We thought she was going to say everything's fine, just carry on doing what you're doing. 44 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,560 And that was the start of our roller coaster journey. 45 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,960 I like to call it a roller coaster of emotions because there's highs, really high highs, 46 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:10,880 you know, when everything is going well. 47 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,440 And the lows are like you literally hit rock bottom when treatment isn't working. 48 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,000 So I describe it as an emotional roller coaster. 49 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,840 And the emotions that you go through are just so complex. 50 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:25,800 So you go through anger, bitterness, resent, you know, resent sort of other people that 51 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:30,040 are around you that are, what it looks like to you are getting pregnant really easily. 52 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:34,240 So you feel like, you know, you're just emotions everywhere. 53 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,760 Hormones are obviously all over the place because you're taking so many hormone injections. 54 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,500 But that's all mixed in with like hope, excitement and joy. 55 00:03:41,500 --> 00:03:43,880 So it's just, you just don't know what you're going to get. 56 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,160 Every day is going to be different. 57 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,640 I think Amanda and I had this discussion earlier that we, I was younger, I think you were a 58 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:55,120 bit older, but when I started trying to conceive, I was 32 and it took me nine months to chemical 59 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,000 pregnancies. 60 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:02,600 And that, that, that exactly what you described there was exactly how I felt. 61 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,840 But I don't know, I felt like I had, I don't know, a little bit more time. 62 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,080 You were older, you were, how old were you? 63 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,600 I started treatment when I was 37. 64 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:16,160 Yeah, I got married later in life at 36 and then started trying after that. 65 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,320 So I started treatment around 37. 66 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:23,960 At 37, did you feel like, oh shit, you know, what if this doesn't happen or this doesn't 67 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:30,080 work and, or did you feel like, you know, quite positive about being able to go through 68 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:31,080 the IVF? 69 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:32,360 I think it's a mix of emotions that you do. 70 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,360 Like you start, you go through, you start the journey completely naively. 71 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,520 Like you think, okay, one cycle. 72 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:44,400 So IVF, we talk about it in cycles, like treatment cycles, and we thought, okay, one cycle, we'll 73 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,600 be fine, we'll get pregnant, everything's going to be fine. 74 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,000 But little do you know that it does not, like it does not work out like that. 75 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,960 And you know, unfortunately, so many couples have to have multiple rounds of IVF cycle. 76 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,040 One just doesn't work, unfortunately. 77 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,840 So we went in very naively thinking it was just going to happen very quickly for us, 78 00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:02,840 but it didn't. 79 00:05:02,840 --> 00:05:05,160 And that was the biggest shock, I think, because we didn't know what to expect. 80 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,600 And we had no one around us that we could talk to. 81 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,680 So it was literally like a slap in the face because we were just like, oh my god, what 82 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:12,680 the hell is going on? 83 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,480 And that's why I describe it as getting on this roller coaster journey, because you're 84 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,240 like, how long is this going to take? 85 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:18,240 When are we going to get off? 86 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:19,400 Like what's around the corner? 87 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:23,960 Because at every stage of the journey, you think everything's going well, and then only 88 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,640 to get like bad news, okay, this part of the treatment's failed, and you've got no, you 89 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,040 know, we're talking about viable embryos, which are embryos that you can then transfer, 90 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,080 which ultimately can turn into a baby. 91 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:38,600 So you know, you get that call to say, no viable embryos, we have to start all over 92 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:39,600 again. 93 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,560 And then you're just like, oh my god, your heart drops. 94 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:46,000 It's just, you're devastated, you're heartbroken because you don't know where this is going 95 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:47,000 to go. 96 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,040 Like for me, it was like every day I would question, you know, is this going to work? 97 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:52,680 Am I ever going to be a mother? 98 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,040 When is this journey going to stop? 99 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:55,640 And is, you know, what's going on? 100 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,800 You know, you question everything that you do. 101 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:58,920 Am I doing the right thing? 102 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:00,760 Am I eating the right thing? 103 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,640 Am I doing everything that I need to do? 104 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,440 Am I taking care of my emotional well-being, my mental well-being? 105 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,400 So you question yourself. 106 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,240 I would say you question yourself daily, and you're tortured daily by it, because it's 107 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:13,760 all you think about every day. 108 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:18,640 Like from the moment you go to bed to the minute you wake up, it's all consuming. 109 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:19,640 Yeah. 110 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:21,640 And four years of IVF you had. 111 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:22,640 Yeah, that's right. 112 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:23,640 800 plus injections. 113 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:24,640 Yeah. 114 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,000 Yeah, it was four long and grueling years. 115 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,160 So 800 plus injections, most of those I did myself. 116 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,320 Now I think about it, I don't even know how I did it. 117 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,800 I'm just getting needles and I can't imagine how you would... 118 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,520 I know, you just become so numb to it. 119 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,800 And you know, you're all doing, it's all in your stomach area. 120 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,400 So you can imagine the state of my stomach. 121 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,920 It was like black and blue. 122 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,360 The really, really painful ones are in your bum and they're awful. 123 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:48,360 They're the progesterone ones. 124 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:49,840 And I had to have them daily. 125 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:54,640 As you know, once I got positive pregnancy, I had to have them daily for three months. 126 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:55,640 Yeah. 127 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:56,640 And I had surgery done. 128 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:58,800 I had a six-hour operation done. 129 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:04,040 I had endometriosis and adenomyosis, which we found out later on down the line. 130 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,240 My doctor thought it would be a good idea just to remove some of that so that if, you 131 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:12,560 know, when the embryo does implant and I do get pregnant, there's no risk factors involved. 132 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:13,560 Yeah. 133 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,760 And my husband actually also, because of his nature of our fertility challenges were male 134 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,760 infertility predominantly. 135 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:20,760 He also... 136 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,760 And people don't know this, but he also took injections. 137 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:27,780 So he had progesterone injections and testosterone injections at the beginning. 138 00:07:27,780 --> 00:07:29,920 He did them in his stomach too. 139 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:31,320 And he also had two surgeries. 140 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,720 So yeah, we went through a lot. 141 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:34,720 Yeah. 142 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,680 And I'm really glad that you brought up your husband's struggles as well, because what 143 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,880 my husband and I do, we run a medical clinic called Lyft Clinic. 144 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,440 And we do talk to men with infertility issues. 145 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:48,040 And a lot of times there's so much guilt and pressure on the woman, on the partner that 146 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:49,720 is the child bearer. 147 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:54,180 And it's a little bit of a forgotten conversation to talk about what men can do to empower their 148 00:07:54,180 --> 00:07:58,240 fertility and what they can do in support of women who are experiencing infertility. 149 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,720 So I think it's a really great conversation that you have offered here to include your 150 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,320 husband in the conversation. 151 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,200 So Gal, I was balancing the books on our family budget the other day and I realized... 152 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:09,840 You're spending too much on workout clothes. 153 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:10,840 Hey, okay. 154 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,920 Also that, but also the fact that we're not spending as much as we used to on high quality 155 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,880 meat and produce since we switched over to the meat club. 156 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:22,360 The meat club's commitment to removing unnecessary costs by ensuring top quality products is 157 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,400 the main reason we stick with them too. 158 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:29,160 Their founder Amy Bell was a lot like us, struggling to find good produce at good prices 159 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:33,000 here in Singapore, which is exactly why she started the meat club. 160 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,560 And their commitment to genuine savings is still at the heart of the business. 161 00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:41,120 And as an added saving, our listeners can get $12 off their first order using discount 162 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,680 code TFF12 with no minimum spend. 163 00:08:44,680 --> 00:08:49,160 Discounts are only valid through their website, themeatclub.com.sg. 164 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:54,120 And don't forget to follow the meat club on Instagram also, at themeatclub.sg. 165 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,720 That's T-H-E-M-E-A-T-C-L-U-B-S-G. 166 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,280 And now back to our chat. 167 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:01,660 Yeah, absolutely. 168 00:09:01,660 --> 00:09:06,280 And people don't realize, okay, so one in six couples globally are affected by infertility. 169 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,760 And that, when you say infertility, it means you've been trying for a year and you haven't 170 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:10,760 been successful. 171 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,560 You are then put in that category of having infertility challenges. 172 00:09:14,560 --> 00:09:20,440 Now 30% of those cases are male due to male infertility, 30% women and then 30% are known 173 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,160 and 10% other issues like PCOS. 174 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,960 So male infertility accounts for quite a large number of the percentage of infertility challenges 175 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,720 and people don't talk about it, especially in the Asian community. 176 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:36,680 It's kind of like they always make the assumption, you're older, it's to do with the quality 177 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:37,680 of your eggs. 178 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:41,520 And probably, yes, but it was actually for us, the thing that drove the treatment was 179 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:47,440 actually my husband's infertility challenges and sperm quality and number of sperm. 180 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:48,440 So yeah. 181 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,040 Yeah, it's important to hear. 182 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:55,760 And that number, one in six people, that just sounds incredibly high. 183 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,480 But yeah, like you said, there's not as much awareness about this. 184 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,960 So what can we do to raise awareness about people who are struggling with conceiving? 185 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:08,800 Well, I think what you're doing now, which is having a podcast is amazing. 186 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,240 We try and reach as many people as we can. 187 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,320 So number one thing I would say is talk about it. 188 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:19,120 So when we found out we had to go through IVF, we were very open about our journey and 189 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,980 sharing it because we felt like we've got nothing to be ashamed of. 190 00:10:22,980 --> 00:10:24,760 This is what's happened to us. 191 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:26,640 This is a journey we're on and we're dealing with it. 192 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,600 We're going through the emotions, but we want to talk about it because we want other people 193 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,520 to feel like they're not alone if they are going through it. 194 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:37,120 And actually by opening up and talking to people, I've had so many women come up to 195 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,040 me and say, do you know what? 196 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,000 That boy over there, that girl over there, I can see through IVF. 197 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:43,200 And they just open up to you. 198 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:47,040 And it's just amazing because they might say, you know, I've not told many people about 199 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:48,040 this. 200 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,600 And here I am talking to someone they just barely know about their journey and what they've 201 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,320 been through because they feel like it's a safe place. 202 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,880 And obviously I've talked about it too and I've shared my experiences. 203 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:01,840 I think sharing, talking about it is just, you know, it's so powerful to help other people 204 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,080 feel that they're not alone. 205 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:09,200 During your sort of struggles while you were trying to conceive and also going through 206 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,280 IVF, what sort of challenges did you and your husband face as a couple? 207 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:18,040 Because I can imagine, you know, that would have been quite a tough period for both of 208 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:19,040 you emotionally. 209 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:20,920 Yeah, it was incredibly tough. 210 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:25,080 So as part of, so we went through so many different challenges. 211 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:30,560 So IVF and any sort of fertility treatment, the pressure it puts on the couple is so intense, 212 00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:31,560 right? 213 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:35,160 You have the pressures of life and now you've got this on top of it. 214 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:40,200 And it does lead to so many marriages breaking down because, you know, communication breaks 215 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,920 down, intimacy breaks, it affects so many different things. 216 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:48,960 So I would say like we had the challenges around just the pressure and also the financial 217 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:49,960 pressure. 218 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:50,960 Like people don't talk about it. 219 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,760 Like we had to pay for it here and the financial pressure is crippling for a lot of couples. 220 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,360 Like you'd be shocked if I told you how much we spent on it. 221 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,960 It was hundreds of thousands of dollars, right? 222 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:03,000 You would fall off your chair if I gave you the exact number, but people don't realize. 223 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:08,600 So that financial pressure is, you know, it's just, it's really, really hard to bear sometimes. 224 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,880 During COVID, that was a particularly tough time for us because my husband actually got 225 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,400 made redundant and I was doing my fertility coaching training. 226 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:21,680 So essentially we were both like not working and all our embryos were in Singapore and 227 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:24,520 we basically had six months, well, he had six months to find something. 228 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,680 So that was really, really tough for us. 229 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:32,200 And actually at that time we found a fertility coach to help us because even with all my 230 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:36,440 training it was just all getting overbearing and just overwhelming and just so much going 231 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,840 on and the anxiety and stress levels were just through the roof. 232 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,400 I think that was where we really, really hit rock bottom, but we had the help and support 233 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:45,400 of a fertility coach. 234 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,800 She's actually based in the UK because at the time there wasn't many people here. 235 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,480 There wasn't anyone actually. 236 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,120 And she was amazing because she went through the journey herself. 237 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:57,440 So she, I just felt like she helped lift some of that weight that we were carrying around 238 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,560 and she was incredible. 239 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:04,960 So what was the turning point for you that made you want to start being a fertility coach 240 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:05,960 yourself? 241 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:10,840 So I actually have been previously career in digital marketing over 15 years. 242 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:11,840 I did that in London. 243 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:13,480 I did that when I first got here. 244 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:17,560 Then we started IVF and I was working at the time and it was crazy. 245 00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:21,280 I was like running into the toilet, giving myself injections, running to the doctors, 246 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:22,280 taking client calls. 247 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,000 So it became very stressful. 248 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,520 But naturally the company that I was working at were just moving teams around and they 249 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,400 wanted to move me into a different team because the team essentially I was in got retrenched. 250 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:35,160 And at that point my husband said, look, why don't you just take time out? 251 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,240 I've always wanted to do something different. 252 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:38,560 And he said, take the time out now. 253 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:42,600 It's a good opportunity while we're going through the treatment, focus on the treatment. 254 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,880 I actually had some coaching sessions myself from a career coach. 255 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,240 She's also a counselor, career coach, everything rolled into one. 256 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:55,040 And through talking to her, and I've done, you know, I've looked into coaching myself 257 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:59,720 before that, but she basically helped me navigate through all of that and work out the fact 258 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,960 that I actually wanted to be a coach myself and help support others. 259 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,640 And because I was going through the IVF journey, I said to her, look, the emotions that you 260 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:11,800 go through, people don't understand and you know, you need help and support. 261 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:16,520 What I say is women and couples should not be going through this alone and you need the 262 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,960 guidance and support of someone else outside of like your friends. 263 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,800 And that basically was motivated me to start training. 264 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:28,480 So I did all my coaching training here in Singapore whilst I was going through the journey, 265 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,720 in fact, you know, so the same thing I was like going because it was all classroom based 266 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,520 and I was running into sessions, running into the doctors, you know, getting injections, 267 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:37,960 doing injections in the toilet, all of that. 268 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:39,240 So I did it all at the same time. 269 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,560 But I think learning. 270 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:45,360 So I did NLP training first, which is neuro linguistic programming, which is essentially 271 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:51,760 training your brain to trust yourself and to talk to yourself differently. 272 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,520 That changes our narrative that you tell yourself every day and learning how to process information 273 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,920 differently so that you get a different outcome. 274 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,560 Because what they say is, you know, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again 275 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,000 and expecting a different result. 276 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:10,360 So NLP teaches you ways to be able to circumvent that and coping strategies, visualisation 277 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,800 tools, so many things I learned that were invaluable. 278 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:17,240 So I use those to help me get through and I realised that this is needed. 279 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,720 This coaching I'm doing is needed because so many women and couples are suffering alone 280 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,080 and they don't even know a fertility coach existed. 281 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,520 So for me, it was like my passion, my calling, this is it. 282 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:27,520 This is what I want to do. 283 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,240 So you were 42 when you conceived your rainbow baby. 284 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,440 I was, no, I gave birth at 42. 285 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:33,440 Oh, 42. 286 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:34,440 OK. 287 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:35,440 Yeah. 288 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,560 What, like when you got, obviously, I don't know how it works with IVF, but do you do 289 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,960 like a pregnancy, take a blood test, right? 290 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:40,960 Yeah. 291 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,840 So you do like what they call a frozen embryo transfer. 292 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:44,840 So they get the frozen. 293 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,520 So he was a frozen embryo for two years. 294 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,320 He'd been in the freezer for two years. 295 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,680 And then they put that inside you, it's a transfer, it's called transfer. 296 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,560 And then two weeks later, you do a pregnancy test. 297 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:55,560 Yeah. 298 00:15:55,560 --> 00:16:00,560 And what went through your mind at that point when you were given the positive? 299 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,960 It was, it was always just, it was unbelievable, basically. 300 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,760 So me and my husband were at the clinic because they called us in, but they told us over the 301 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,800 phone because then you need to go in and take more injections. 302 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,080 And we just broke down and we were crying and we just couldn't believe it. 303 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,640 But what I say is that you, what I describe is you're quietly celebrating because you 304 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:24,360 know this is just the start and you've got all the, so you have your pregnancy test, 305 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:28,280 but then you have another one because they need to check that the HCG levels, which is 306 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,040 a hormone, is increasing. 307 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,360 So once you have the first one, you then have to do it every few days to make sure. 308 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,480 So we were ecstatic, we were over the moon, we couldn't believe, I couldn't believe it 309 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:38,480 was happening. 310 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,200 But at the same time I was like, oh my God, like we've got all these different things 311 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:42,200 to ahead of us. 312 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,880 And that was quite scary too. 313 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:45,880 Yeah. 314 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,720 And the only thing I can relate that to is someone who hasn't undergone IVF, but someone 315 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:50,720 who has suffered a miscarriage. 316 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:51,720 Absolutely. 317 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,840 Is I didn't, you know, I had easy pregnancies in my first two and then after my second, 318 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,200 I had a miscarriage. 319 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:02,160 And that was the first time that I experienced the transition from seeing my pregnancy test 320 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,320 and just being overwhelmed with joy and seeing my pregnancy test and being overwhelmed with 321 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:07,320 fear. 322 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:08,320 Yeah. 323 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:14,560 And I think that what's common about our journeys is that that first period of that, the first 324 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,400 trimester and really up to 12 weeks, right? 325 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:20,840 And really 14, you know, if we're talking about women over 40 and on our pregnancy, our 326 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:22,440 unique pregnancy risks. 327 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:28,280 I think that what you get with IVF is an extension of the fearful period. 328 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:29,280 Absolutely. 329 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,680 And not so much a relief as you would get from a natural conceived pregnancy. 330 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:39,640 I think only women who have undergone those types of treatments or have had a miscarriage 331 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:44,840 can really relate to that seeing the pregnancy test and it's not exactly a celebration. 332 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:45,960 Yeah, exactly. 333 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:51,240 Because you know that you've got a long journey ahead of you and you just can't help but all 334 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:55,080 those anxieties and questions that, you know, is everything going to be okay? 335 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:56,440 Am I going to get through this? 336 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,240 Is the baby going to be healthy? 337 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,760 Those fears and anxieties are only heightened because of what you've gone through. 338 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:02,760 Yeah. 339 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,400 And when you conceive naturally and you're not quite sure exactly when it happens, it's 340 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,120 like you're almost saved from a few weeks of wondering, you know, because until you 341 00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:13,520 miss your period, you're like, okay, now I can start worrying and wondering. 342 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,800 Whereas with IVF, you know the moment it happens. 343 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:17,160 And so the worry starts then. 344 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:18,160 Yeah. 345 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,960 The worry started from four years ago, but it just gets even worse, right? 346 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:21,960 It just gets even worse. 347 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:22,960 Yeah. 348 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,480 Yeah, I can totally relate to that in that sense because I think when I was trying to 349 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,680 conceive my first child, that just, I felt like it went on for so long. 350 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,360 Nine months, I said, prior to that I had two chemical pregnancies. 351 00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:37,920 And then every time you get that positive pregnancy test, you'd be like, shit, is this 352 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,480 one going to be the one that sticks? 353 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:41,480 You know? 354 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:47,040 So yeah, those feelings, you know, there's obviously happiness, fear, anxiety, you know, 355 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,040 you go through the works, don't you? 356 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:50,040 You really don't. 357 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:54,400 Look, it's just us three in this room and we've all had experiences, loss and different 358 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,160 difficulties conceiving. 359 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,280 And imagine like how many other women out there are going through the same journey or 360 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:05,920 experiencing loss, difficulties, you know, it's just, it's more common than we think, 361 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,320 but not often talked about. 362 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:14,480 Yeah, I remember sort of being out and I'm Indian and, you know, I'd be in England and 363 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,200 people are like, oh, you've been married so long now, you should try and have a baby. 364 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,120 And I think I just got to the point where I was like, I am trying. 365 00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:24,160 And then they'd go quiet because I think, you know, they just think, oh, you know, here 366 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,280 you are, you should have a baby now. 367 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:31,600 I think sometimes they don't realise that it's not that easy, especially as you get 368 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:32,600 older. 369 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:33,600 Yeah, exactly. 370 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,080 So the pressure that you get from the Asian culture and, you know, the pressure that we're 371 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:41,720 under is even more because, you know, you're getting older and people are, you know, families 372 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,120 are asking or putting the pressure on. 373 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:46,560 I think from day one, we wanted to be very open about our journey because I didn't want 374 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,560 to go back to London and have those conversations and deal with that because what we were going 375 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,840 through was painful enough without other people reminding us of what we're going through. 376 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:59,920 So I think if you're open and honest about your journey with family, they can be more 377 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:03,840 compassionate and empathetic towards everything you're going through and a bit more mindful 378 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,640 about what they say. 379 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,340 And you mentioned earlier about kind of how it felt that everyone around you was getting 380 00:20:09,340 --> 00:20:12,260 pregnant so easily or, you know, seemingly so easily. 381 00:20:12,260 --> 00:20:17,200 And again, I do interact in circles, obviously, again, being a mom over 40 of women who are 382 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:18,400 struggling with infertility. 383 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,840 And I do feel a level of guilt when I'm like, oh, here's another pregnancy. 384 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:23,400 Oh, here's another baby. 385 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,280 How do you advise women like myself that are in circles with women that are going through 386 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:28,280 infertility journeys? 387 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:33,480 How can we best support women that are going through IVF, surrogacy, IUI, all sorts of 388 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:34,480 different options? 389 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:40,560 Yeah, I think it is a tough one because everyone's different and everyone reacts differently to 390 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,080 pregnancies and women around them pregnant. 391 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,920 I actually just put some content out the other day about how to deal with people that are 392 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:48,600 pregnant or announcing pregnancies. 393 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:56,000 And what I say is, you know, it's OK, so you said you were feeling guilty and you don't 394 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,600 know how to maybe react. 395 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:02,120 But I think listening is the first thing, like listening to, you know, maybe saying 396 00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:05,640 to the person or friend, I really don't understand what you're going through. 397 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,520 But if you want to share your journey, I'm here. 398 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,720 I want, you know, I'd like to know more about it. 399 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,360 I'm here to listen. 400 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:17,920 I also understand if you find it too painful to spend time with me at the moment, you know, 401 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,120 I value our friendship. 402 00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:24,040 And if you need some time to process everything, then I completely get it. 403 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,520 And I'm here for you when you're ready to talk. 404 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:31,000 So it's just giving them the space so they can feel what they feel because we don't know 405 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,160 what they're feeling, right? 406 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,680 So it's just like giving them that space and breathe them, but letting them also know that 407 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,240 you're there and you want to understand what they're going through. 408 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,080 You don't understand because you've not been there, but you'd like to understand and you're 409 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:43,080 here as a friend. 410 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:44,960 And I think that's all you can do. 411 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,200 And just try to avoid, I mean, you know, as long as it's like most people have some level 412 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:54,000 of emotional intelligence, just try to avoid saying things that could trigger them like, 413 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,920 oh, you know, why don't you just, you know, classic, why don't you relax? 414 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:01,000 It will happen if you relax or just take some time out and it will happen. 415 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,920 You know, all the classic is the story of I know someone who knows someone who stopped 416 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,640 trying IVF and they went on holiday and they got pregnant. 417 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,120 We don't want to hear stories like that because that just pisses us off. 418 00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:14,680 So yeah, avoid saying things like that that could trigger the other person. 419 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,240 Yeah, that is really helpful. 420 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:17,240 Approach with empathy, right? 421 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:18,240 Always. 422 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:19,240 Yeah. 423 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,240 Yeah. 424 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:21,240 And put yourself in their shoes. 425 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,440 Just try and understand some of the emotions that they're going through. 426 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,080 Did you at any point feel like I've had enough now? 427 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,640 I don't want to go through this experience when you were going through the IVF. 428 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,000 And were you thinking about other things like maybe adopting or anything like that? 429 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:41,000 Yeah, we did because of my age and the quality of eggs do diminish as you get older. 430 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,600 Like, let's not, you know, be around the bush. 431 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:43,600 That is a reality. 432 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,640 It's science that proves it. 433 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:51,160 We were thinking about looking at other options and just talking about them and saying, OK, 434 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,120 what are the other options? 435 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:58,600 It's egg donors, sperm donors, embryo donors, like surrogacy, adoption. 436 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,040 You know, you talk about it all. 437 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,640 But you don't want to, it's very weird because you talk about it, but you don't want to talk 438 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,960 about it too much because you don't almost want to jinx it. 439 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,560 So you're like, OK, here are the options and you lay them out. 440 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,320 But you then take your energy and your focus and you focus on what you're doing right now. 441 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,360 And you think, OK, for now, we're on this journey and we're going to focus on this. 442 00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:20,400 And if it starts to look like it's really not going to happen for us, then we can open 443 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,880 up the conversation and talk about the other options that we have. 444 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,120 So when you went through the four years of the IVF treatment, where were you on your 445 00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:31,120 journey? 446 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:34,960 Like, how long would you have continued on the IVF path? 447 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,920 Well for me and for a lot of women, you do. 448 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,880 So for me, I did all my IVF cycles first and that's where you retrieve the eggs. 449 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,840 So I did all of those first and then I had a bank of embryos. 450 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,600 So for me, it was like, OK, this is a bank of embryos we've got because I'm not going 451 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,040 through all of that again because, like I said, the older you get, your eggs quality 452 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,040 start diminishing. 453 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:56,720 And we've done so much to get there. 454 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,520 It's like, this is the number of eggs we've got. 455 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:00,300 We've got six embryos. 456 00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:03,560 We're going to go through those embryos and then we will decide if we want to do any more. 457 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,400 But for us, it's like, OK, these are the numbers we've got. 458 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,600 We'll just go through those first and then we make a call. 459 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,720 And what number did you get to? 460 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:17,760 So Ishan, my baby boy now, who's two, we put in two. 461 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,820 So we put in embryo number four and five. 462 00:24:19,820 --> 00:24:23,800 So we don't know which one he was, but it was either four or five. 463 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,200 So we have one left, essentially. 464 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:27,200 Amazing. 465 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,560 And when you put in the two, was it one male, one female? 466 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,560 Or was it just whatever you didn't know? 467 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:32,560 You don't know, yeah. 468 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:33,960 So you can't find out here in Singapore. 469 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:34,960 Oh, that's right. 470 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:35,960 In Singapore you can't. 471 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,600 You can't get genetic testing or find out. 472 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:38,600 So we didn't know. 473 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,120 We just, it just took me a while. 474 00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:43,080 So it's like two stages, I like to call it. 475 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,600 You do the banking of the eggs and getting the eggs out and then fertilizing them. 476 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,360 And then you do all the transfers where they put them back into you. 477 00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:52,800 But for that part, you have to, it's not as easy as just putting them in. 478 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,720 You have to get your body ready and your lining ready. 479 00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,280 And I think my lining just took so long to get ready that the doctor was like, OK, we've 480 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:01,680 got it to a point. 481 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,680 Let's just put two in because we don't know how long it's going to take until we get it 482 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:06,880 to this optimal state again. 483 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:07,880 So we put two in. 484 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:13,840 And you know, it's not encouraged because twin pregnancies are very high risk. 485 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,640 But it was just because it took so long to get to that point that our doctor encouraged 486 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:18,640 to put two in. 487 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:19,640 Double or nothing. 488 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:20,640 Yeah, exactly. 489 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:21,640 And it worked, right? 490 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:26,280 You know, he's our miracle because the quality of embryos diminish as you go down. 491 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,160 So we start with the best one. 492 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,480 So four and five essentially are the kind of lower quality ones. 493 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:37,360 And I always say to women, don't get too hung up on the quality when the doctor says to 494 00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:39,640 you, this is the best quality, this is the poor quality. 495 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,840 Because for us, it worked and he was lower down the chain. 496 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:43,840 Amazing. 497 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:50,480 What sort of advice or words of encouragement would you offer to couples who are going through 498 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,880 infertility sort of based on your experience? 499 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:59,440 OK, I would say as a couple, because you go through so much and you both experience it 500 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:00,440 very differently. 501 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:07,360 So for the guy, you know, like you said earlier, they feel kind of, you know, responsible potentially 502 00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:13,320 or feel helpless that they can't do anything more than they're already doing. 503 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,800 And for the woman who's going through it physically, you know, mentally, physically, emotionally, 504 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:24,480 she is exhausted and your confidence takes a real battering, your self-worth, your confidence, 505 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,940 everything, you know, it just gets shattered. 506 00:26:26,940 --> 00:26:31,920 So I would say, first thing, talk openly with each other about what you're going through 507 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,920 and how you're feeling and what support you need from each other, because you need to 508 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,200 do it as a team, because the minute you start feeling like you're alone, the journey becomes 509 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,680 so much harder. 510 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:47,760 So talk to each other, dedicate a day in the week that you sit down and say, OK, how has 511 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,880 the week been for you? 512 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,160 What do you need from me? 513 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,760 What appointments do you want me to come to? 514 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:58,560 So, you know, work that out as a couple and just be on the same page. 515 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:03,200 Just talk openly to like, you might not want to tell everyone, which is completely, you 516 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,640 know, like acceptable, and it's completely personal and up to you. 517 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:12,160 But find people that you can trust, whether it's family or friends, one or two people 518 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,600 and just talk to them about what you're going through so that you don't feel alone. 519 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,320 For women, there are support groups out there for men, you know, look at support groups, 520 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:27,040 join the support groups, talk to people, like minded people that are going through the journey. 521 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:32,960 I also encourage people to talk to a specialist, whether it's a coach, a therapist, a psychotherapist, 522 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:38,320 counsellors, you know, there's so many people out there that can help you and that can talk 523 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,160 to you and help you manage some of the emotions that you're going through. 524 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,280 Yeah, I think those are some of the things. 525 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,800 I think the other thing I would say is advocate for yourself with your doctor. 526 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,280 Like your doctor has your best interests at heart, but you know yourself and your body 527 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:51,280 better than anyone. 528 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,920 So if you feel like you need a break, you feel like you need some time out or you've 529 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,640 got some questions that you might be a bit too scared to ask, ask it. 530 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,880 Like the doctor's not going to like shut you down because you're asking these questions. 531 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,520 You need to know what's going on every stage in your journey and you know your body better. 532 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,840 So really, really advocate for yourself. 533 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,040 Yeah, and you had mentioned about how it's so important to have your partner on your 534 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,440 team, right? 535 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,600 But at the end of the day, it is you that's giving yourself the injections and taking 536 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,920 that pain and it is you that's going to carry that pregnancy. 537 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,800 If the pregnancy isn't successful, that's going to kind of carry the weight of that 538 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:27,800 loss. 539 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,240 So when I'm working with clients, so I'm a fitness and nutrition coach and I see a lot 540 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,520 of women that are coming to me for weight loss that's related to weight gain from their 541 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,160 IVF journeys. 542 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:43,480 And how do you kind of help women through the physical, deeply physical and personal 543 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,560 changes that happen in their bodies during this process? 544 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:51,400 Yeah, so I focus a lot on the emotions, but I feel like it's all linked, right? 545 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:52,640 Your mind and body are linked. 546 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:58,840 So when you're overwhelmed with thoughts and feelings that you just can't process, I help 547 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:00,280 process some of that. 548 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,160 I like to call it unpacking the layers and unpacking the bags that you've been carrying 549 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,160 around. 550 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,160 So layer by layer, we take out some of the emotions that you've been feeling so that 551 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,760 you can start to feel lighter, you start to have clarity around what you want to do next 552 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,200 or decisions that you're making. 553 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,080 And ultimately some of the emotions that we talk about and I help, I basically teach them 554 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:25,280 coping strategies and tools, visualisations, affirmations, journaling, emotional freedom 555 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,640 technique which is tapping, mood in tapping. 556 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,180 And that let's go or some of the blocks, blocked emotions that you've got. 557 00:29:31,180 --> 00:29:34,360 So I'm a very big believer in holistic therapy. 558 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,880 I did a lot of holistic therapy through my treatment. 559 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,120 And so I believe that there's a lot of blocked emotions that you're not even aware of and 560 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,440 you don't understand how they affect your body. 561 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:45,440 So it's all linked, right? 562 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,600 So once you get clarity and you release some of the emotions, you then realise actually 563 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,680 that emotion I was holding was stored in my stomach. 564 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,920 I was getting gastric issues, I was getting cramps. 565 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,840 And once you release some of that and you let them feel lighter and they feel like a 566 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,840 weight's been taken off, they can then focus on the physical side. 567 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,280 And I don't focus mainly on the physical side. 568 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,720 For me it's more emotions, but once they get through some of that pain, they then look 569 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,480 at focusing on themselves physically. 570 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,800 So there's people that do yoga, fertility yoga that help you kind of get back, get some 571 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:18,800 of your strength back, physio. 572 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,880 There's so many other people like yourself that can help you bounce back from everything 573 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:24,880 that you've been through. 574 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:25,880 Yeah, exactly. 575 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:26,880 I definitely think like we would have a synergy. 576 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:27,880 Yeah, of course. 577 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,240 And like I really hear you because I'm on my journey now to try and get some of that 578 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:36,000 fitness and strength back because all through my journey I was told you can't do HIIT training, 579 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,600 you can't do running, all the things I love I couldn't do because of the pressure it would 580 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:41,600 put on my uterus. 581 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:46,960 That must have been tough, like, you know, having to almost like give up yourself. 582 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:47,960 You do. 583 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,080 To, you know, go through the pregnancy. 584 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:52,080 You give up a lot. 585 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,480 Yeah, as much as your partner is there for support, your partner is not giving up. 586 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,120 Your partner can still go to the HIIT class if he wants. 587 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,600 So it is kind of that really lonely journey. 588 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:03,600 It is. 589 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,480 Funny you said that because I was a very active person before I went through this and, you 590 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,320 know, I'd be like, OK, well, I can go on my walk, which is still fun, but, you know, it's 591 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:12,320 not running. 592 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,200 And my husband would be going to his boxing class and I love boxing. 593 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,600 He'd be going to his boxing classes every other day. 594 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,240 And at one point I was like, it's not fair. 595 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:22,240 Like it's not fair. 596 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:23,840 I want to do all these things. 597 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,600 I don't want to have to give up who I am. 598 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,160 But, you know, you do for the phase that you're going through. 599 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,640 For that part of my journey, my life, I did. 600 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,560 But then I always, you know, reframed it and helped myself and said, look, it's only a 601 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,160 chapter in my life that I'm going through. 602 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,880 It's not going to be forever. 603 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:41,520 For now, this is my focus. 604 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:42,520 These are the things I'm having to. 605 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:48,200 And if you tell yourself you're not giving them up, you're just putting it on pause, 606 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,480 that's a better way of looking at it because it helps you then because you're putting it 607 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:51,480 on pause. 608 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,160 And as soon as you've got through this, you're going to, you know, you're going to get back 609 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,000 to everything you love and enjoy. 610 00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:00,080 And it's so cheesy to say it, but once you do have a successful pregnancy and once you 611 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,640 do have that baby, you realize how minute missing that boxing class was. 612 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:05,640 Exactly. 613 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:06,640 It puts everything into perspective. 614 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:07,640 Yes, it sure does. 615 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:08,640 It sure does. 616 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:09,640 And we wish that for everybody. 617 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,440 Tina, it has been wonderful having you here. 618 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,280 Thank you for sharing your inspiring story with us. 619 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,520 But before we finish, we do have a question that we do like to ask all of our guests, 620 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,280 and that is, what is your forties formula? 621 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:26,640 And I guess for you, it's what kind of advice or wisdom would you like to share with our 622 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,680 listeners, especially those that are facing some type of adversity? 623 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:30,680 Okay. 624 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:37,680 I think I would say don't give up on so don't give up on your body or your mind. 625 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:38,680 Okay. 626 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,600 You know yourself and your body better than anyone. 627 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,880 I was determined to be a mother, whether that meant giving birth at 42. 628 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:46,880 I didn't care. 629 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:51,640 I didn't listen to anyone because for me, I knew and I reminded myself every day that 630 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,680 this is going to happen for me. 631 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,560 And I made sure that that was my focus the whole time. 632 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,120 I didn't let anyone or anything derail that. 633 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,240 And I think part of that is because I was in my forties. 634 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,960 So in your forties, you're smarter, you're braver, you're more resilient. 635 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:08,960 Okay. 636 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,880 And you don't let other people's words or behavior stick to you. 637 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:18,200 You're better at understanding, okay, this person is not serving me positively anymore, 638 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,680 and I'm happy with that. 639 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:20,680 Okay. 640 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,760 So you learn to let go of toxic relationships that aren't serving you. 641 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,320 And I think you do that because in your forties, you know what you want out of friendships 642 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,640 and you know what is working for you. 643 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:36,360 You're also more mindful of the importance, the sheer importance of mental well-being 644 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:37,680 and you prioritize that. 645 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:42,240 So in your forties, you know that the most important thing you can do is prioritize your 646 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,600 emotional well-being and your mental well-being. 647 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:52,360 And you realize that that doesn't make you a selfish person because it makes you be a 648 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,400 better person for yourself and for everyone else around you. 649 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,000 So yeah, I think that's probably what I would say. 650 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,000 That's incredible. 651 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,000 Thank you so much. 652 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,920 I feel like the forties is the no-shits given decade, don't you think? 653 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:04,920 I think it really is. 654 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:05,920 You don't. 655 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,920 I wasn't sure if I was allowed to swear, but you are allowed to. 656 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,960 Don't give a shit in your forties because you are so confident. 657 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,400 And I think the other thing I would say is you've learned to love yourself again, right? 658 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,660 You go through twenties and thirties, you're a bit like, hmm, am I, you know, the limiting 659 00:34:19,660 --> 00:34:22,000 beliefs of self-worth, the confidence. 660 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,960 But in your forties, you're like, nope, this is me, this is who I am. 661 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,120 I love myself and I couldn't care less what other people think or say about me. 662 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,600 Yeah, that's what we get what we want in our forties. 663 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:33,600 Absolutely. 664 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:34,600 Yeah. 665 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:35,600 Thank you so much, Tina. 666 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:36,600 It was absolutely wonderful having you here. 667 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:37,600 Oh, thank you so much. 668 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:38,600 Thank you. 669 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:39,600 Thank you. 670 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,840 This is Paul, our editor. 671 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,520 He's a 25-year-old unmarried Singaporean guy listening to the ramblings of 12 older 672 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,920 women on everything from menopause to weightlifting to sex. 673 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,640 Paul, what's your thoughts on today's conversation? 674 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,840 Hey, hey, hello once again. 675 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,800 So I have a confession to make actually. 676 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,920 So this isn't actually my era of interest or expertise because at least for me and my 677 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:08,680 partner, we aren't exactly planning on having kids or interested in having kids in the current 678 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:09,680 foreseeable future. 679 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:15,080 Neither do I have friends in this decision life who are actively trying for kids in their 680 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:16,080 twenties, I guess. 681 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:22,840 So yeah, it's a bit, I guess it doesn't fit exactly with my current decision life. 682 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,880 But anyways, it's quite an interesting, you know, informational topic to be able to hear 683 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,600 a story and you know, what Tina was sharing about his struggles and pain in order to conceive. 684 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,040 So if you're trying for kids, don't give up guys. 685 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,040 All right. 686 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:37,480 Anyway, catch you guys next time. 687 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:38,480 See you all. 688 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:39,480 Bye bye. 689 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:44,680 Hey guys, did you know that you can leave us questions and comments on FanList? 690 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,820 That's right on FanList.com slash the 40s formula. 691 00:35:47,820 --> 00:35:51,280 You can leave us a voice note where you can ask us anything, leave us your feedback or 692 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:52,800 just say hi. 693 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:57,400 Nikola 777 reached out to us and had this to say, so I've just listened to the first 694 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,760 two podcasts and I absolutely love them. 695 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,800 I enjoyed the content about real women and real issues to be facing our 40s. 696 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,520 I love the flow of them. 697 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,680 Some very helpful insights and tips. 698 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:08,680 Well done. 699 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:09,680 I can't wait for the next one. 700 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:10,680 I feel like I need more now. 701 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:11,680 Lol. 702 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:16,680 I'm trying to work out. 703 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:23,200 I was like, I wonder what she is going to say there. 704 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:28,120 I was like, I'm not sure what I would say. 705 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,600 The 40s formula is proud to be your source for that realness, Nikola. 706 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,140 Thanks for listening. 707 00:36:33,140 --> 00:36:37,880 Before we go, please remember to hit subscribe and take a moment to support the 40s formula 708 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,280 by leaving a review on your favorite podcast platform. 709 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,080 Your reviews will help us to reach more people and allow us to continue to bring valuable 710 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:46,080 content. 711 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,180 It should only take a moment and it's a free way for you to support the show. 712 00:36:49,180 --> 00:36:54,920 You can also stay updated with the 40s formula by following us on Instagram at the 40s formula. 713 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:56,160 All one word. 714 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,720 We share behind the scenes insights, episode updates and much more. 715 00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:02,400 So please be sure to hit that follow button. 716 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,040 We appreciate your time and support. 717 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,220 Thank you for being part of this community and we'll be back next week for more empowering 718 00:37:07,220 --> 00:37:09,600 conversations with inspiring guests. 719 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,600 Bye. 720 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:57,720 After I had my eldest son, I used to try and have a smoothie in the morning and they got 721 00:37:57,720 --> 00:38:03,120 to a point where if I had a smoothie first thing, as in, you know, as in my fast breaker, 722 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,440 I would throw up and I don't know what it was. 723 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:06,440 And I was like, this is so weird. 724 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:11,280 I don't know if it was just the concentration of all the, you know, shit, but it wouldn't 725 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:12,520 actually make me yack. 726 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,400 Which is really, really strange. 727 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,400 So since then I've been off smoothies. 728 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,800 Yeah, it's been about eight years and I'm like, can't do smoothies anymore. 729 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,080 I used to do like everything. 730 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:23,080 I'd put spinach in there. 731 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:24,080 Yeah, yeah. 732 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:25,080 Yeah, just cannot do it. 733 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,080 Spinach and apple or banana and almond butter. 734 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:29,080 I like that combo. 735 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:30,080 Yeah, they're the go to. 736 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:47,500 They are good for loungewear. 737 00:38:47,500 --> 00:38:57,080 Yeah they're great for loungewear.