Hey Chris. Hey John. How you feeling? Doing okay.
How are you? You know, it's been a while since
we've done late night recording. Yes. And this
has been a long day. Sounds like it's been a
long day for you for sure. Yeah, I've been up
here for a while. You know, not hard work. I
think that we've all had those days where it
kind of feels like you're more babysitting. a
piece of gear or technology or a situation, then
you are actually like hammering it out. But that
was really nice. Even though it's been a long
day, I think it feels longer because I was up
here until seven o 'clock last night trying to
get wires run, some power lines, power lines,
power distribution done to some of our speakers
that were. okay so guy comes in and puts in brand
new speakers for us and they're fancy they're
so nice i really like the way that they sound
um but we had two of them fail they started buzzing
so we sent them in and when i got up there and
looked at it all realize there's seven like we
have two stacks of line arrays that are seven
deep and then we have some point source three
point source uh uh, speakers that are kind of
in a fill arrangement to, to fill out some of
them shorter spots in our, in our room. Um, so
it's an, it's an interesting setup and I am,
I've, I've already been critiqued on it so many
times, but, uh, the, the guy who installed them
ran like Daisy chain, the power on those line
arrays all together. to one 20 amp circuit and
it's the same circuit that the projectors are
on oh and so there was some there were some words
uttered in that moment i bet um so we sent the
two problem uh speakers off and then i basically
said before we put the ones back in here we need
to fix the power issue and we did that But we
were up there, and we put the speakers in, and
then I realized we haven't run the power to actually
do this right, and they want to retune the room
tomorrow. And I was like, well, if we're going
to use these speakers. And then I found out they
wanted to use the speakers this morning, and
so I had to get all of that run before the end
of the day yesterday and then had to get in early
today to be there to run sound. Which was not,
like I said, it was more babysitting than anything
else. Yeah. I would say it sounds like you need
two, if not three, circuits per stack. Yeah.
Yeah. That's a lot. We've got four per side.
Okay. But that's because they've got the subs
run on a different circuit. Okay, yeah. And I
think the subs were both on the same circuit
before, but now they're separate circuits. So
one 20 amp circuit for each sub and then two
20 amp circuits for the speakers up top. I think
there's actually another one. I just don't remember
how that's run because the point sourcer runs
separately. But it was a big deal. Glad we spent
the money to do it. It was not cheap. Um, but
it was just kind of the finishing up of all of
that last night. And I was, um, up on a ladder
by myself at six 30. And you know, when you're
up in a room that doesn't have the air conditioning
on and you're higher than you normally are. So
it's hotter. Yeah. And then you lift that, uh,
ceiling tile out of the way and all of the heat
comes down on you and you're like, I've made
bad choices. Now I'm standing on this. Yeah.
You know, 25 -foot ladder in the air with my
head in the insulation trying to pull these power
cables through, which I had to make cables for
because, you know, nothing can be easy. No. It
was so frustrating. Anyway, there were a lot
of parts of it that were frustrating. But this
is why I need to drink a beer. So I'm going to
drink a full -grown man beer. Good save. Yeah.
I was like, nope. Kick save and a butte. Not
saying that, John. Why are you talking? This
is a family show, I'll have you know. Yeah. Dadgummit.
Okay. What are you drinking? I've kind of gone
to an Old Faithful, a breakfast stout. Breakfast
stout. Love it. I have to admit that I just kind
of grabbed what was left in the fridge on the
way out the door. Well, I grabbed what was left
in the fridge here in the house. Yes, you did.
We're doing it. That was a fail. The opener slipped.
Didn't get the sound you were looking for there?
No. Also, because we just got done serving dinner
here, and I didn't really get to sit down. Oh,
that's another fun story I'll save for later.
I have sandwiches, so help yourself to a sandwich.
Yes. I guess we'll apologize in advance for any
smackage. Smackage or. Oh, look at that. That's
a beautiful pour. I'm just saying two of those
in this gargantuan. That's not bad. I'm going
to take a picture of that. It's not bad. Got
to get the. It's got a good head on it. Everything.
Oh, who names these things? Anyway. That's what
they call it. I know. I'm just. Get out of the
gutter. Oh, that's me. There you go. Clean the
camera lens. It's telling me to clean the camera
lens? Like, hey, buddy. I don't know if you've
noticed, but you need to actually dust that bad
boy off. It's all roast beef? Yeah, it's all
roast beef. And they just have the meat and cheese
on them. Oh, even better. I was like, I actually
ask them whenever we order. I'm like, hey, could
you not put the veggies on there? Because, you
know, it makes everything soggy. Here you go,
folks. That is some fascinating ASMR. ASMR, yes.
No big deal. Yes. I'm sending this to you. Yes,
it's wrapped in the paper, folks. Thank you.
Jimmy John's. Thank you, Jimmy John's. This episode
brought to you by, no. But if you are ever in
Tyler looking for a sandwich, Alex at Jimmy John's
hooks us up. Yes. And really, really grateful.
This is not the Danny DeVito soap. No, it's not.
Yeah, there's plenty of... What was that? The
new... Oh, it was Eli Manning. The commercial
where he falls into the conference room or whatever
and he's yelling at Eli Manning. Eli's. Eli's.
You'll be hearing from my lawyer. Kaboom! He's
prompt. He's prompt. I love it. Okay, so part
of the reason that I didn't get to eat while
we were doing food tonight was that have you
ever set up something and you're like, this is
like, we don't ever need to mess with this again.
So I'm just going to set it in a way that is
kind of vague. you know i say vague but generic
and the stuff that i'm setting it for is not
stuff that changes so boom no big deal and then
management decides to change something yep that
you're like well that sucks now i gotta go to
all these different places and you know change
all these different oh and there's that thing
that i set up again that was like So long ago,
we don't even mess with that anymore. And there's
only one tool that can be used for that because
of some archaic software. But the good news is
I put everything to make that happen in a bag
all together. And then you go and you open the
bag and the power cord's not there. Uh -oh. And
you're like, in my particular case. Am I going
to have to eBay a Dell Vostro 1400 power cable
so that I can change the sign that's so outdated?
Like the old barrel? Yeah, old barrel style.
No, I found one, but it took me all evening to
find it. I was looking underneath desks and all
kinds of places. It was not pleasant. But it
was definitely one of those. All right. Well,
adding to the tired. Yes. Yeah, that was the
other fun story. I would say recently for us.
There you go. Take it in, folks. You should see
it. It's worse. Yes. It's so much worse. The
closest that we've had for that. Probably the
last year is trying to keep Google groups organized.
You know that find code loves change. Yes. They
embrace it wholeheartedly. Wholeheartedly. They
will hire people to change things. Correct. So
I would say the last two years, the change rate
has been off the charts. It does seem like there's
a lot. And particularly in the last year, it's
gone just completely off the rails. And so you'll
get Google groups, right? And you're like, okay,
we can breathe. Hey, this is happening and this
is good over there. And you're like, you just
broke everything. You broke everything again.
And that's probably happened five or six times
in the last year. HR, let me train you how to
do this. This is your job now. Yep. So. I think
we found a solution that will fix it. But there's
some work involved. And I'm sure they'll find
a way. To break it again. To break it again.
So you're talking about more than just like.
This is talking about using groups to handle
distribution of email. Yeah. Which should be
pretty straightforward. You're in this department.
Here you go. Oh, well they're in this and then
they're also in this and they're in that over
there. And we really need them to have this stuff.
Yeah, no, that's not, that's not fun at all.
No, I've tried to keep all of that as minimal
as possible, but it really is tough. And then
somebody will tell you why, you know, this person's
not receiving this email and like they're in
the group. Have they checked their spam? Yep.
Well, the beauty of that is you can go into the
email log and go delivered. Delivered. We had
a fun one in that vein. I'm not getting the email.
I'm not getting the email. And we went into the
email log and we could literally see not only
was it delivered, but that it was opened. It's
like, I'm sorry, you got the email. You did get
the email. Yes. There's some sort of delusion
happening that I'm not really prepared to walk
into with you right now. I don't want to call
you a liar right here in front of everybody.
Sure. That's a fun screen that just popped up.
I know she's not listening, but shout out to
Ruthie for keeping Google working. She's been
awesome. Man, I miss Ruthie. She's rock solid,
man. She's awesome. She keeps us in line. I was
really frustrated when she left. Yep. Oh, I need
to... I didn't even think about that. I need
to send you a picture of what she did with the
space now that Jacob ran away and went to Dallas.
Yeah. And we had all that extra. Extra space.
Now it actually looks welcoming and presentable.
Of course it does because... I'll send you pictures
tomorrow. You have to come hang out. Every IT...
should have somebody like Ruthie. That's, you
know, thinking through. I'm going to let you
see it next time it does it. Thinks through stuff
like that. A relationships manager, if you will.
There you go. You've got me thinking. i t crowd
all the way with the way that you are reacting
to the computer i'm waiting for you to go i haven't
seen that one since 1994 if your computer was
a human i'd shoot it in the face in the face
it just it seems like maybe that's where we're
going with this one but you know I'm sure that
there wasn't anything like that shouldn't have
been on here. It's fine. Yep. Okay. You're going
to have to watch. I'm going to hit the update
now. Okay. Ready? Mm -hmm. Okay. Agree. Oh, sorry.
I would agree. Agree? If I don't agree, it doesn't
work. Got to agree. Agree. Oh, that's awesome.
I'm looking for updates now. Where'd the error
go? What was the error? Can we get a screenshot
of the error? I didn't see the error. I just
saw it totally reset, and now it's looking for
updates again. Oh, no. There's a little box that
shows up that's this big, and then it disappears,
and it's got a... Okay. error on it but it doesn't
let you read the error it just disappears so
you're getting restarted right now i just every
once in a while i want to sing and dance i want
to sing and dance live in gear support right
on the show folks i want to be a pirate in the
pirates of penzance You know this one? No. Did
you ever listen to Ray Stevens? No. Okay. Well,
I'm still going to be your friend. Ray Stevens,
really funny, but always did like songs that
were, you know, like Weird Al did like parodies
of songs and that's part of what made them funny
was him rewriting the lyrics and everything.
Ray Stevens was just like a comedian who most
of his comedy was... I recognize him now that
I see the picture. So he did one that was...
Now let's see if I can remember this. He did
one that was... I don't know what it's called.
It's like either Pirates or I Want to Sing and
Dance or something like that. And it's really
funny because the... You know, it starts off
with the 16 men under dead men's chest. And then
the captain, the pirate captain, who sounds very
pirate captain -y, is talking to his crew. And
they're all, yeah, we're going to pillage. We're
going to plunder. And then you hear this little
effeminate voice say, I don't like that. What
do you mean you don't like it? We're pirates.
I don't like it and I don't want it. And then
he was like, well, what do you want? It turns
out after like through the whole song, you go
through the whole song that this little voice
is, is the pirate captain's son. And then at
the end, he's like, well, you don't like all
of these things. And, uh, but you want to sing
and dance. And he's like, yeah. And he's like,
All right, we'll all sing and dance. We'll all
sing and dance. No, we don't want to. Or you'll
walk the plank, and so then they all sing, and
you hear all the. Anyway, it's hilarious. There's
plenty of them. And I was like, and surprisingly,
very like PC of today. Not shaming. And Ray Stevens
was a long time ago. I listened to Ray Stevens
and Mark Lowry a lot growing up because they
were music and comedy that my parents were okay
with. Baptist family. Mom used to say that I'd
be sitting in the back of the Suburban because
my sisters are in the front seats of the Suburban.
I'm in the back. And I would be sitting in the
back of the Suburban just giggling with my little
Walkman tape deck. Tape. There you go, tape,
yes. Not CD. This is before the CD. Because the
Walkman was cassette. Yeah, Walkman was cassette.
They came out with a CD player, right? They did.
It was terrible. Because you expected to be able
to do with the Walkman CD player what you could
do with the tape deck and just hook it onto your
belt. But I don't know if you've ever tried to
do that with a CD. It doesn't work. Even if you
put the anti -skip switch on, it's still going
to skip. Yep. It doesn't work well. Okay. It
wasn't meant to, though. This is not, we didn't
talk about any of this, but still, not planned.
Favorite old technology. Favorite old technology.
LaserDisc. I always was fascinated by LaserDisc.
Somehow I knew you were going to say LaserDisc.
My uncle had one. I think we still lived in Indiana
at the time. I remember he had LaserDisc. I thought
it was the most amazing thing ever. It's the
size of an album. This is a vinyl record. Basically.
That is silver. Yeah. He was a big Star Trek
fan, so he had some of the Star Trek movies on
Laserdisc. He had Coming to America. Oh, wow.
Well, that may be pushing it past when we already
were here. So anyways, Laserdisc by far. In fact,
I've come so close. Because you can get them
reasonably priced. Can you? Well, not getting
the player, but getting the Star Wars original
trilogy on Laserdisc. Yeah. I'd never be able
to watch it because I don't have a player. I
don't intend to buy a player. But for whatever
reason, I just have always been fascinated by
the idea of owning the original trilogy movies
on Laserdisc. That's an interesting aspiration
for somebody who doesn't have a player. It seems
like you would want the player. Um, so, but yeah,
I would say laser disc for me. That's pretty
great. By far. Um, so along those, I do remember
when our, um, one of, I think it was our librarian
actually, um, you know, cause librarians are
always somehow librarians are the, you know,
technology people in schools. Um, we did have
a like, computer labs person but that's not like
the librarian is the one that would bring the
like the tv with the on the cart on the cart
av club baby yeah all of that was coming from
the library not the computer anyway seemed very
unrelated at the time now it's like well obviously
that's the tech guy yeah anyway um but i remember
them pulling in in elementary school, in elementary
school, pulling in a TV that had this massive
VCR on the bottom of it. And I was like, what
is that? And then they pulled out the LaserDisc.
And I was like, oh my gosh, we're in the future.
I was just looking real quick, and most of these
LaserDisc players on eBay are going... For like
$200 to $300. That's not terrible. I'm not paying
that much for a Laser Displayer. I'm not saying
you should. I'm just saying it's not terrible.
That's expensive, man. Again. I'm being a cheapskate.
I'm not saying that you should do it. Sure. But
if you're going to get the trilogy. It's just
more about having the collectible more than anything.
Oh, that's great. Laser Displayer. Laser Displayer.
Laser Displayer. Plug your ears, kids. Really?
Well, it's typical of the 80s. It is a entertainment
collection of the bunny variety. There, I dressed
it down, so to speak, for the kids in the audience.
For the children. And then it's back to just
players, players, players, players, players.
Yeah, see, there you go. You can get Stephen
King's It on Laserdisc for $15. That's what I'm
talking about. Cheap. Super cheap. Because they
know nobody has a player. Because you have to
buy over $200. Yeah, I'm not spending that kind
of money. Anyway. But I digress. Oh my gosh.
I'm so tired it's hard to chew. Okay, so mine.
I've thought about this for a long time. Okay.
The technology that I am really sad did not last
and like become a thing. I want to say for longer,
but honestly, I would still love it today. Our
mini disc. Oh yeah. Players. Yeah. Because really.
It's a little laser disc. It's a little laser
disc. And like the, the, the mini discs to me,
it was like, Oh, they fixed the CD. You know,
like we, we put a little cartridge around this
bad boy and it's not skipping. Yeah. And so like
my cousin had like a mini disc. Um, he had a
mini disc player in like his home stereo setup.
And he also had a mini disc, like, Walkman of
sorts. Yeah, I remember those. And I thought
this was the future. Sadly, the iPod came out.
And I say sadly, and I think everybody knows
what I mean. The iPod then was the advent of
not owning physical copies of... anything that
you buy. Um, and many disc was the opposite in
that it made it so easy to record, to make your
own, like I was not mixed tape. I was not, yeah,
I was not, I was not fancy enough to have one
of these, but can you imagine how easy it would
have been to do a mixtape on one of those bad
boys? Oh yeah. I sat there with my cassette player
listening to the radio. I just need the first
two notes of the song I'm listening for, and
I'm hitting this record play button. Yep. I'm
just saying. Oh, yeah. Kids these days. No idea.
No patience. No follow through. If you never
had to make a play or a, what do you call it?
mixtape for your girlfriend. Oh, yeah. You're
not going to know what love really is. Fair.
Anyway. Okay. Did we actually say what we were
going to do today? Well, not yet. I'm realizing
we didn't really describe the beer. Oh, we didn't
describe the beer. Well, these are two beers
that we've done. Well, I know. But still. There's
new people out there. There's new people out
there. Maybe this is the first time. And I know
there's new people out there because I keep watching
the OP3 numbers. Look at you. And I can't figure
out what's happening. No, it's not. I don't think
so. Because it's not that they're getting the
most recent shows. Yeah. They're hitting all
these older shows. Okay. And I'm like, okay,
that's weird. And a lot of it's coming from Amsterdam.
I'm like, that's weird. Shout out Amsterdam.
Yeah. Y 'all are too high to know that you've
wandered onto our show. Congratulations. We've
got the munchies over here, too. Yeah. I mean,
so far, in the month of September, just throwing
a fun number out, 46 % of our downloads have
come from the Netherlands. Sounds like we need
to make a trip. Oh, like Cheech and Chong. That's
right. Oh, boy. Was that Still Smoking? Where
they went? I don't remember. They were pretending
to be the... and then the real people showed
up. That's hilarious. Yeah. That's pretty funny.
Anyway. So, yeah, what we intended to talk on
first was the wonderful challenges of trying
to stay legal for audio and video. That's right.
Oh, it's the worst. Yes. And then second half
of the show, we will get into the Intel backdoor.
Okay. This is one of those things like I have.
We didn't used to have this problem. You know,
as as churches, we didn't used to have this problem
because all the music that you did was in the
hymnal. True. And so if you bought the hymnals,
you're fine. And I would argue in the 1980s,
the Christian music was so bad that nobody cared
if you were playing it. Without a license. But
in the church that I grew up in, we only did
hymns. Oh, yeah. For me as well. For me as well.
But when I listen to 1980s Christian music, it's
just like, oh, I just want to shove pencils in
my ears. The quality of the music was just like,
oh. They didn't have the monetary backing that
they do now. Oh, they clearly didn't. But they
were trying real hard. Yeah. Shout out, Striper.
Yes, I remember that. In fact, the Christian
music of the 80s is why I probably never really
got into Christian music at all. It ruined me
early. Every now and then there'll be one that'll
be like, hey, that's actually not bad. Well,
like, okay. So I have always had, and this is
my mother's influence, I think, I've always had
a soft spot for singer -songwriters. So Rich
Mullins was like the pinnacle to me. And still
is to a certain extent. I still stack him up
against a lot of songwriters. He had some serious
diversity. He had the ability to do these big
80s ballad -like... Not even ballad -like...
I mean, I guess you can call it a power ballad.
He, he, he would do these like musical, like,
I mean, it's just a composition. Like there's,
there there's movement. There's, there's, there's
an, like a beginning and then it's going to take
you into this place. And then all of a sudden
you're singing. How did that happen? And there's
a climax of, you know, whatever the point of
the song that he's doing is and then he could
do like an acapella just voices like whatever
that would make you cry at the end of it and
you're like what what what what did you just
do to me yeah um i just was always really impressed
with with his musicality um for somebody who
was just just a you know t -shirt and jeans yeah
christian artist There's a lot of his story and
everything that I think I was sheltered from
when I was a kid or we just didn't know because
they didn't have social media back then. But
it's only made me like him more the more I found
out about him. But because of that, because of
my mom's influence and because of listening to
only Christian music growing up. I had to go
to my cousin's house to listen to anything that
was on the secular radio. Oh, there you go. I
did not have the education musically that most
people did. It didn't sound so bad because that's
all you were used to was KLTY. True. It may be
the wrong decade, but the name that always...
Comes to mind to me for Christian artists back
then was Michael W. Smith. I don't remember if
he's late 80s or 90s or what. Both. Both Michael
W. Smith and Stephen Curtis Chapman had mullets.
So, you know, they were in the 80s. Yep. 80s
and early 90s. Amy Grant back in the day. Oh,
yeah. Twyla Paris. Just pulling that out of.
Don't know that one. Oh, man. There's no reason
for you to know who she is because of what I
know about what you were listening to. And she
would have been one of the ones that you were
like, no. You make it sound like I was a heathen.
Not at all. Just not. Like if you didn't have
to listen to this stuff, there's no reason for
you to listen to this stuff. But let me tell
you, when you have to listen to stuff and it's
like you start to get excited about. Oh, my gosh.
What was his name? Yanni. Harmon. Wow. That was
in the 90s. Yeah, I definitely don't recognize
her. No, that's a he. No, Twyla Parris. Oh, Twyla
Parris. Yeah, I just looked it up. So Twyla Parris
has some, like, the choirs would sing Twyla Parris'
music, and it was. Okay. I'm just saying. She's
from Fort Worth. Oh, yeah. No, she's a Texas
girl. Carmen. She's great. You're going to judge
the crap out of me when you find out Carmen's
stuff, but I'm telling you. That must be the
wrong guy. I mean, it looks like he'd be the
right. age for the time frame although it looks
like he's passed away but it says american singer
and rapper yeah really yeah i don't know i don't
know that i would call it's more like spoken
word than it is rap i don't think i knew that
he was uh dead yeah it says he died in 2021 that's
he has a song called satan bite the dust yes
okay who's in the house who's in the house jc
yeah Tell me who, who, who, who, who. Tell me
who's in the house. J .C. Oh, my gosh. I'm just
saying, and if you look this guy up, you're going
to understand. But the one that always got me,
the champion was everybody's whatever song for
a long time there. Lazarus come forth. That one
will get you. Okay. And then, oh, where's the
other one? We need America again has the, we
need God in America again. You know, this was
the, he was responding to prayer being taken
out of schools. Okay. Gosh, where's the other
one? Is it the courtroom? I think he did one
that was like the, you know, the videos that
everybody played about the, you know, if you
were in a car wreck, you know, you're drinking
with your buddies and you die in a car wreck
and then do you go to heaven or hell? It was
a lot of stuff like that. Okay. Anyway. Okay.
I'm having a hard time. Looking at some of these.
Anyway, there was a lot. And I will tell you,
our youth group made a music video with I Pledge
Allegiance to the Lamb, which was Ray Boltz.
Name sounds kind of familiar. Ray Boltz was a
Christian artist. He came out of the closet in
the 90s. Oh. In the 90s? I don't know. I must
be looking at the wrong Ray Bolts because it
says his spouse was Carol Bolts, which is a lady.
Oh, that's her. So he came out of the closet
as somebody that struggled with homosexuality.
Okay. He was a Christian, so he... Okay, fair.
I don't know exactly how all that went, but it
was... Because, again, I was a kid, and I didn't
care at all about any of that. He's still alive,
but he was a really good melody. I don't know
how much of the actual composition for his music
he did, but I pledge allegiance to the lamb.
Just saying. Okay. We made a music video. I had
a solo. I was 13. Still had my little soprano
voice. Okay. Yikes. I feel like I need to say,
Mama Redfern, if you're listening, send that
in. No. Surely she doesn't have it. She does
have Bethlehem AD, I think, which was like a...
We always did a youth... The youth choir was
a big deal in our church growing up. Choir in
general. Anything musical, we had a big adult
choir. We had a big youth choir. We did big anthems
and... Big productions for Christmas and Easter.
Actually, I don't think we really did Easter.
We did a lot of Christmas. But the student choir
put on a production one time called Bethlehem
A .D. when I was a young high schooler. And I'm
just saying, I was really good in it. Okay. I'll
take your word on it. About what it would be
like if Jesus was born now. Now. Okay. So I was
one of the shepherds, which were car mechanics.
Okay. And brought the house down. Okay. Me and
my buddy Brian. Anyway. Okay. Yeah. We've gone
way too far into the. Yes, we did. Other stuff
here. I don't even know how we. Got back on that.
Oh, it was the technology and then old music
and what we were listening to, and I was not
listening to anything y 'all would really care
about. Anyway. So in terms of keeping the church
legal. In terms of keeping the church legal.
What are you specifically doing around audio
and video? Okay, so this has changed a lot. as
well because you know in the beginning what we
were really in the beginning whenever i became
cognizant of this as a thing you know any kind
of protection for intellectual property i've
always been really um tried to be really mindful
as someone who was a musician i didn't really
have a lot of aspiration i mean anybody who picks
up a guitar or drums or start singing in any
kind of, uh, I don't know, in front of people
type way. There's your, there's going to be thoughts
of like recording or traveling and you got to
analyze, excuse me, all of that. And I never
really like all of that stuff. Of course I thought
about, but at the same time, I always, I was
pretty cognizant of the fact that I was not good
enough to really do any of those things. I really
wanted to focus. I felt like my gifting laid
more with being local and helping people who
were more in my area. Not a whole lot of reason
to record. Definitely no reason to go travel
anywhere. But being a musician, I was always
very sensitive to and had a lot of friends who
were artists, who I would say the word artist
applied to, and wanting to make sure that I was
protecting people who were trying to make money
off of intellectual property. And that's really,
like, honestly, when you... When you're walking
down that path, when you're trying to be mindful
of that sort of thing, you can still make a whole
lot of mistakes. Sure. Because not all of it
is intuitive, and it really doesn't make sense
who gets money for what. No. None of that makes
any sense to me. Nope. Looking at you, Spotify.
I remember having a real problem whenever everybody
showed up at Pine Cove wanting to use Spotify,
and I was like, I get it. This tool is great
for you, but they're not paying artists anything
or very little, and so I don't think we should
do this because we have artists who come here,
and if they see that we're using Spotify, if
they know anything about it, they're probably
going to get frustrated. Turns out they might
not have even known or cared as much as I did,
but still, it just did not seem like the right
thing to do. Then again, neither was using Apple
Music for, I mean, they were better, but not
what it should be. And it never will be. I remember
hearing Prince talk about this because he was
on a late night show where Mariah Carey had evidently
just signed some ginormous contract. And he was
like, oh, y 'all think that was a good contract?
and he was like let me break this down for you
and he was like if i if i make an album and you
like are gonna uh distribute it for me how much
do you think that i should get of that like so
an an album costs and i think he was like i don't
know twelve dollars it was like i don't maybe
eighteen dollars i can't remember what the like
And I don't remember if they were talking about
a song or, you know, either way. Like, you can
look this up. And Prince, of course, is going
to do a way better job than me. And he basically
walked the Tonight Show host. I don't remember
which Tonight Show it was. Well, I don't know
if it was actually Leno or if it was, oh, my
gosh, Letterman or, I mean, maybe Conan. Conan
O 'Brien. But one of those guys, he's walking
through, like, this is what that would look like
if I, if, cause everybody's like half, like that
makes sense. Like the artists would get half
like, okay. So that means that you then would,
you know, earn this much money. All you have
to do is, is sell this many albums. And I, I
mean, he, he said some ridiculous number of like
albums, but evidently for like Prince and Mariah
Carey, this is a very small number of albums
like to do a million or 3 million or something
like that. And he's like, Whatever deal she just
made paled in comparison to the numbers that
you would get if you were actually making half
on every record. It is pennies for the amount
of work that's done. And I'm not trying to like,
I don't know, downplay what everybody else is
doing in the music industry. I'm going to get
real close to the mic here for this part. Oh,
but you've got no job without the person making
the music. Yeah. Can we just be real honest about
that? Like you don't get to make money off this.
If this person doesn't exist. True. And so maybe
they should get more. That's all I'm saying.
Than every other person involved. We talk about
intellectual property. Musicians, it feels like,
and I'm sure there's some other part that I'm
not giving enough credit to or another industry
that gets raked across the coals more than musicians.
the way that it happens with musicians really
is troubling to me. And all of that to say, what
I've tried to do is do this correctly in order
to make sure that that happens the way it's supposed
to, because then at least they get something.
So back in the day, you know, I talked about
how, when we were singing hymns, all you had
to really do was buy the hymnal. And then with
each hymnal that you had, there was a percentage
that went to the hymn writers that were not public
domain by this point, which a lot of them were.
Anyway, there's a lot to it. But when all of
this became digital, which is when I really started,
I'm doing this for a job. Really, the only name
in that game, and it's the same people that were
making the hymnals, I think, before, is CCLI,
Christian Copyright Licensing or something like
that. And so they've got rights to all of this
music, and they will sell you the ability to...
You know, you can, you had to, at the beginning,
it was just like, if you used it in a Sunday
morning, you had to, you had to say how many
copies you printed for whatever musicians or
choir members. And you had to say of what kind
it was. Are you printing the, you know, SATB,
sorry, soprano, alto, tenor, bass, like music?
Are you printing the piano? whatever are you
printing lead sheets are you reading are you
printing chord sheets and i can't remember all
the different like ways that you would say what
you were doing and how many you were doing of
each one i was always in small churches so this
wasn't really that big of a deal it was a very
administrative task but you would do that for
each song that you played on a sunday morning
and you would pray that you had picked public
domain because you just like it's just so much
less to worry about like you don't have to do
any of this but um the point is then the songs
that um you you send in these reports like you
you pay for the whole thing and you don't you
don't really you pay because of the size of your
church yeah um is basically what you're paying
a license for the size of your church no big
deal but then they would ask you to track all
these things in order to then reward the you
know, songwriters that were, were being used
more often. Correct. And it was especially important
if you printed something out. Well, then the
iPad shows up and now they're like, all right,
how are we going to do this? And so then they
start trying to figure out, okay, so we're going
to, we're going to sell licenses to these and
how many times they're accessed can be recorded
um based on whatever software you're using to
then bring them in and like it got so convoluted
there at the beginning of them trying to figure
this out that it was like i'm out like i i want
to help i really do i i'll tell you what songs
i'm playing but really i'm really i'm not like
we're not i don't have time Correct. To figure
all of this out for you. Like, I'm going to tell
you that I'm doing these songs. The huge majority
of the time now, that part is actually pretty
easy. There are most of the software that's used
to... distribute songs to bands that are all
playing together um that that can that can count
those um and that makes that makes perfect sense
like that all this is digital there should be
a record of this absolutely i shouldn't have
to say well i bought five copies of this song
because did you or do you just have you know,
an infinity license for that song. Well, I didn't
report infinity. I reported five. And so really
I've only got five. It got so weird. Now, not
only do you have to have, you know, either CCLI,
multitracks, like all of this then got more complicated
because then in 2020, everything went online.
And it wasn't just the churches that were big
enough to have some sort of TV ministry or whatever.
It was everybody has to be online or your church
doesn't have a presence because nobody's coming.
Then it became, whoa, you have a license for...
doing all of this stuff in a in a service with
people who are present you don't have a license
for streaming streaming yeah so now you need
a license for doing um all of this with people
who are present and then you need a license for
streaming yep and then you need another license
to leave it up yes so This is where you see,
I mean, I've gotten a lot of feedback on this
as well from different people in our church.
We have an in -person service, of course, now
that we're past COVID stuff. We still stream,
and we have licenses for both of those things.
What we don't have a license for is leaving anything
up. So what we do is we... are in person and
we stream and then as soon as that uh stream
goes to you know past present or whatever we
cut the recording of it down to the sermon yeah
in as timely a fashion as we can i'm talking
less than a day we we cut that down and we cut
the music out so it's just a sermon so the only
thing that lives on our website is the sermons
correct um No, I've not gone back and done all
of the services that we did before all of this.
That's what the intern's for. Please have mercy.
We don't have interns. Can't pay interns. No,
intern's not a paid position. Yeah, no, that's
called a, never mind. But I've talked to lawyers
over this. I have tried as hard as I could to
not just, not just do the spirit of the law,
but the letter of the law and like all of these
different things. And it's always been one of
those, like, I mean, if somebody comes after
us, they're going to come after us. Correct.
And that's really hard, but we're trying to do
this the right way. Yeah. I feel like if somebody
came after us today, just be like, well, my job
for the next. you know the rest of the year is
going to be to a bunch of editing try to do compliance
yeah um as fast as possible yeah um and until
then we'll just take everything down yeah and
that's the hard part about this is you don't
want to lose your archive like you don't want
to lose all of the stuff that you put out there
but you might have to because it's not anyway
yeah the good news is places like facebook will
just They're fine with letting you have your
songs going during the live stream. As soon as
that thing goes public, all of the little bots
attack and are like, we own that, we own that,
we own that. I'm like, great, mute it. I don't
care. I go to the ones that stay up and I delete
there. That we attach to, YouTube, Vimeo, we
edit all of that stuff. And then we bring it
down. And that's not even counting CVLI, which
is the new hotness for trying to pay for licensing.
Because pastors like sermon illustrations. Yes,
they do. And movies give some great sermon illustrations.
Correct. And so having to pay for that stuff
and pay for it. Be in the room and pay for it
to be live streamed and pay for it to live on.
Like, you know, it's all a different thing. And
like, again, like I'm on the side of wanting
people to get paid for what they have done. I'm
not trying to rob anybody. There is an element
of being so tired. Yeah. That it's like. I mean,
yeah, just tell me how much we owe and we'll
figure out how to send you a check because I
don't have the margin for this in my life. No.
Listen, I'm trying to keep my kids out of jail.
Yeah. Don't come at me. Yeah. Yeah, we use CCLI
as well, but even where that gets weird when
you start looking into the verbiage. It says
that it's good for the service. So when you look
at a Christian camp, you're going, what defines
a service? Exactly. Is that just the club time?
How is that for mealtimes? What about it's raining
and you've got to get people inside? It gets
really blurry really, really fast. And I will
tell you, there's a lot of... That's not as gray
as we want it to be. What's actually written
there is pretty... specific about what this can
be used for and what it can't. And we're not
doing that. Yeah. So it's like, there's, there's
a lot of, there's a lot of trying to figure that
out. And I think trying to, I think, I mean,
you know, honestly, again, I'm not trying to.
make somebody else make money inside of that.
I'm not trying to add another person to pay inside
of this, but it does seem like there is some
sort of, uh, hole in this. That is the person
who is making this simpler for somebody who's
just trying to do it right, but doesn't know
what, what they're looking for, um, in terms
of this. So you look at different, um, I mean,
that was the hardest thing for me inside of...
In a worship service, CCLI works because you're
paying for the thing that makes it possible for
all of the musicians to be able to make this
song happen. I'm not talking at all about playing
music from a computer over a system that everybody
can hear. Because technically that's not what
any of these things are for. Now, there is a
provision for... And again, you have to pay money
for it. But there is a provision for inside of
worship services being able to use songs. At
a camp does not seem like mealtime is a worship
service. No. Sure they pray. Yes. But like, what
are we doing? Yep. And that's so hard to like,
then be the guy who has to tell everybody like,
look, we got to figure out a way to do this.
Like, like imagine we're a, we're a Starbucks.
Imagine we want a playlist playing while people
are sipping on their mocha. What do we have to
do? Yeah. And it's a very different world. Absolutely.
The one interesting story I can share on this
comes from Jason. And I don't know if he may
have told you this before. I don't think so.
But at one of his dad's, I guess it was a restaurant
maybe, that had a gift shop that they played
music. And a guy was in there and was asking
about the music that they were playing. And then
he just kind of let in with like, so how are
you doing that legally and his dad was able to
go oh here's the cd we sell it in the gift shop
yeah and then the guy knew oh i don't have any
where to go here right and left whereas if they
had just simply bought a cd and were playing
it right he thought he was about to ready to
be like oh yeah i gotcha so that's kind of an
interesting story of some of the ways that you
can cover yourself to some degree oh there's
plenty of people that are looking for a fight
oh yeah um yeah and to me it's one of the biggest
concerns that i have with what we do yeah because
it's inevitable with the reach that pine cove
has yeah that eventually someone's going to come
on property and they're going to understand what
we're doing and they're going to start poking
around and asking questions And then we're going
to see what happens. And some of them are going
to be answerable and some of them are not. Correct.
And that's the hard thing is like the number
of like the variety, like the, where all these,
all this music is coming from. There are plenty
of them that are like, Oh yeah, no, we, that,
that one is totally covered. Yeah. And then you're
like, did you just play? Where'd you get that?
Yeah. Back in the day, we tried to do a better
job of that. Sorry. We tried to do a good job
of that. I don't know what the status of that
is now. I don't imagine it's gotten easier. But
for online content, things that you get off of
different things, maybe a YouTube video or something
like that, you've got to purchase a license.
Um, for the copyrighted music you wish to use
in a public setting. Yep. Um, if you want to
use public domain music, that's always an option.
I think, you know, there's some really good public
domain music. They've, they've basically entered
into an agreement where, you know, you pay for
this thing or you whatever, and you can use all
of these, this different music. That's what it's
there for. You can compose and use your own background
music. That's something that you definitely own
the rights to. You subscribe to or purchase music
from a licensing service or the YouTube audio
library. What I really appreciated about Pine
Cove, and this was actually a friend of mine
who... made this happen and then he when he went
to get his master's one of the things that he
really focused on was um copyright law inside
of this but he would be the guy who panko was
um one of the things that they really that they
used to offer that was a i thought a big selling
well not a selling point it was just a like it
was a it was a nice thing They would do these
videos for every week of camp. At every camp,
they would do a video for the whole week where
they would show all the kids, and they'd get
as many kids in the video as they could, and
they'd be fun and fast -paced. you know, then
meaningful. And like, they would just try to
do this range of emotions, but they always used
a few songs for it. And I was always, I guess,
skeptical inside of it. I was like, I'm not sure
we're doing this the right way. But then I found
out after being there for long enough, no, they
reach out directly to the artists that they use
for the videos for each of these. And it was
the same one for the whole summer or the same
songs for the whole summer, but different at
each camp. Yep. And they would get permission
to be able to use them in these videos. And this
was back before they were online. This was, we're
sending these VHSs and then DVDs home with these
kids. I was really impressed with the ability
to stay above board inside of that. Businesses,
whenever you're trying to use background music
in your place of business or something like that,
you either have to obtain a public performance
license, which is... You pay for an annual license.
It's usually like BMI, ASCAP. ASCAP, yes. Or
what's the other one? Yeah, there's kind of the
big three. SE something. Anyway, and then you
can play the whatever music. PRO, the Performing
Rights Organization. Okay. Or you can get, like
a recording license that would give you more
rights to the music. That's not really, I don't
think that that's the one that's done more often.
I think usually the public performance, I think
it's called the public performance license. Anyway.
The publishing or the sound recording license
is, or sound recording license? Anyway, those
are the ones that like, that's the like legal
agreement that Pine Cove would go into and get
with the artist and the, you know, whoever actually
owns the music because it's barely ever the artist.
Yep. When Taylor Swift came out with that album
that was like, what'd she call it? My version
or something like that. Like she re -recorded
all of her music so that she could own the masters
instead of the, and then, and then she like re
-released everything as, you know, I think it
was like my version or something like that. It's
funny because like fans went out and bought it.
It's the same music that they already had. Except
Taylor Swift owns the rights to it as opposed
to whoever she had an agreement with. I mean,
nothing against that at all, but it's kind of
funny that that's the loophole here. Yeah. Is
to be able to record and then own. It's not,
I mean, you're not even, that was a weird thing.
You remember the, um, did you hear about the
Ed Sheeran, um, lawsuit? No. So somebody, um,
and I don't, I don't know if it's the band or
if it's just the, whoever again owns the rights
to. some music. And I think it was like from
the seventies or eighties, there was a song that
sounded like one of his songs. Okay. And by sounded
like, I mean, the chord progression was the same.
Okay. And, and you can hear it. Like, I'm not,
I'm not saying that you can't hear it. I'm not
saying that the melody is. totally different
and whatever i i mean you can hear the similarities
if you like the show then how about donating
will they save you money on therapy do you think
you also listen to the whole song and you're
like i don't think he ripped off your song like
i don't know how to there's a section of it that
kind of sounds similar sure so instead of like
just settling Ed Sheeran goes to court and in
front of the, um, I think it's like a jury and
everything like in front of everybody whips out
his little guitar. And it was like, you know,
this is what we're being whatever. And he's like,
this is a song that they're telling me is, uh,
the original song. This is what mine sounds like.
And he played like he's this guy's an incredible
musician he plays his song and then he like is
like but these are not the only songs that have
this progression progression inside of them and
he starts playing like i mean it's funny because
christian music gets accused of this all the
time you're just playing one four five six like
one or you know some combination of one four
five and six chords and that's it and i'm like
great yeah there there is a like in every chord
progression or in every uh scale there is a one
a major one sorry a major uh the the one chord
is a major chord the two chord is um minor usually
minor three usually minor four major five major
six minor seven is like augmented and then back
to one the chords that everybody really like
at least in western pop and i would say i not
to like throw everybody else completely off if
you're not playing jazz you're usually playing
one four five and six um and there's a few different
like oh we're more musical than that or whatever
the backbone of most like catchy things have
this 154 whatever to him and so he plays all
of these different songs like he goes from his
song like that first song into his song into
like people get ready there's a train coming
and then like uh all these different that all
have the same progression. He's like, you can't
own this progression. It's in too much. And it's
that like, how in the world are we supposed to
have intellectual property? Number one, when
you got people that are that talented, they're
like, no, I'll just play all of it right now,
right here in front of you. What do you want?
Yeah. And then when it's like, there's a reason
that this is catchy. It's because it's kind of,
it kind of reminds you of something that you
know. Correct. And everybody has these like ties
back to, I don't know, twinkle, twinkle little
star. Yeah. It all seems to follow some type
of a melodic template. Yeah. There's patterns.
Yep. And. people who are really good at patterns
can see even the vague ones yep and for taylor
swift every song just has to do with how the
guy did you wrong so help me and yet i have a
friend who's like so like she's such a good songwriter
and she's so amazing and i'm not trying to detract
from taylor swift like i don't I don't have anything
against her. I think that she is really talented.
I think you're a songwriter. That's not an easy
thing to do. Sure. Also, I'm not listening to
anything that you write because, oh my gosh,
this is why I stopped listening to country music.
I don't know. Stop it. Play it backwards and
you get everything back. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't.
I just don't want to hear about your breakup.
I don't want to hear about it. Yes. And I'm pretty
sure if it's a popular song, that's what it's
going to be about. And at some point, if you've
had that many breakups, there's a common denominator,
folks. Nobody wants to talk about that. Yeah.
I was actually joking with my wife and daughter
about her the other day because they love to
listen to her music. Yeah. And I have determined
that she's a succubus. She's a succubus. Well,
look at what she's done to Jason Kelsey. Yeah,
I know. What has happened to that man? That man
cannot play football anymore right now. And it
started last year. It's gotten worse this year.
This year, he's the suck in succubus. He is.
For sure. I don't know. I mean, whatever. It's
funny because, again, I don't have anything against
her. And I think Jason and Travis especially.
whenever they get together they're hilarious
and i wish all of the luck in the world to i
can't say the eagles i just like i really like
jason but at the same time i'm like that's what
happens when you're a cowboys fan well i'm not
really like i okay i say that i am a cowboys
fan i have i have lived in north texas for so
much of my life i feel like a poser if i if i
cheer for anybody else like it's i mean it's
the same way with the rangers there's plenty
of decisions that the rangers have made that
i'm like are you kidding me yeah and now the
mavericks most recently like all of the well
not most recently the cowboys again are in the
you know top prize for moron of the year i don't
i don't understand i don't like i don't understand
how there's not somebody that can pull a ripcord
on jerry jones but like It's so bad, so bad.
The moment I see a fan refer to them as America's
team, I'm like, you are living in the 70s. You
don't realize. I understand people were talking
about it in the 90s because they were winning,
but America's team was Tom Landry's Cowboys,
not whatever it's become after. jones fired him
like yeah what a joke yeah anyway and now it's
just you know shockingly obvious that he has
no idea what he's doing no he can't blame everybody
else over and over and over again switch out
that person and then it's still be their fault
it's him he's the problem anyway all that to
say like I want to be able to like the Eagles
because of how, I guess, is winsome a word you
can use for Jason Kelsey? Maybe. He's just a
likable guy. I want to have a beer with him.
Not garage beer, though. No, no, no, no. I want
to actually have a beer, not just have you pound
it. let's find a beer you like yes and sure if
you want to drink five of those first and then
that's fine but like seems like a great guy love
listening to their podcast because it's funny
to hear about football from people who actually
play football my uncle billy was a lot like that
where you would hear about things that you're
like oh really like that's how that was huh um
But, I mean, just all of that is way more entertaining
to me than hearing these commentators or guys
that wish that they played whatever sport talk
about it. I'm looking at you, Stephen A. Anyway,
would much rather listen to them. And so I don't
have anything against Travis or Taylor. But y
'all got to figure out how to like. She's killing
the man. It sure looks like it. So to me, I go
back to, and this is a throwback to the 80s,
The Dark Crystal. Yeah. Essence of Gelfling.
Essence of Gelfling. She's all essence of Kelsey.
Nice. She's draining the boy. That's what I think.
So, of course, I say that to my wife and my daughter.
And, of course, they get bent out of shape. Or
are they fans? Yes. They're not, like, Swifties,
necessarily, but they enjoy her music. I mean,
great. And, of course, I called her the succubus,
and then you thought I, you know, just spoke
some kind of heresy. Yeah, you're like, we're
not going to, let's not, let's not make that
line. I mean, she, boof. But again, I hope they
get married and that their marriage lasts for
a long time. Just everything nowadays points
in the opposite direction. Correct. This is not
going to go well for anybody. But prove me wrong.
I would love for that to not be the case. And
I would love for Travis Kelsey to remember how
to play baseball. Baseball. To remember how to
play football. Yep. Or hockey. You know, if you
want to switch to hockey, that's fine with me.
But, like, evidently they grew up playing hockey.
I want you to be a successful human being. I'd
be afraid to see somebody that big coming at
me on the ice. I agree, but maybe that's what
would make it so effective. Maybe. Man. Yikes.
Yikes. That's a big boy coming at you on the
ice. It is a big boy. Tell you what. He's super
tall. Yeah. But his brother might be scarier.
Yeah, but I don't know that Jason's going to
be quite as nimble on the ice anymore. No, I
don't think so. But at the same time, it just
takes one hit. Yeah, he's just got to get moving.
He's just got to get moving, and he's got to
not miss you. Yeah. And I don't exist anymore.
Pretty much. All of a sudden, it's just he's
gone. You are permanently planted into the ice.
I'm so impressed by like these big guys and how
athletic they are. Yeah. I mean, it's funny because
they talked about it a lot. Again, referring
to Taylor Swift at a football game, but at whatever
game that was that Jason was in the stands or
in the box with Taylor when Travis was playing
and he jumped out of the box because he saw a,
little girl who was a Swifty and like picked
her up and brought her to the window of the box
in order for Taylor to see the sign that she
had or whatever, which I mean, how freaking wholesome
is that anyway? Um, but I will tell you, I don't
know how many beers it took for him to be that
limber. Yeah, that's yeah. That could be a thing,
but If he's drinking his own beer, he would probably
take a case. Yeah. Because that stuff is like
drinking water. Yeah, I don't understand that.
Like, big guy like that? It's just a chugging
beer. That's all it is. It seems like you should
only be doing 10%. Like, 10 % or higher. Yeah.
He's got the mass to offset it. Yeah. Otherwise,
you're just, like, drinking 24 beers. You're
wasting your time. I'm wasting a lot of time.
Yeah. Brings me back to this guy. Um, what was,
yeah, we talked a lot about nothing. That's okay.
You want to talk about the security or just save
it for that? Do we got time? Where are we at?
What's the, as an hour and 21 minutes. Well,
that depends on how much farther you want to
go. I know you want to get home. Yeah. I mean,
I'm good now. Yeah. Cause you can drink the beer.
Yeah. Okay. Let's hit it real quick and we'll
see what we can get. So this is where I need
to insert the jingle. Insert the jingle. Now
entering second half of show. I'm not sure we
can call it a half yet, but we're working on
it. Now entering last eighth of show. So I want
to talk about, and this is nothing new. So for
some of y 'all, maybe you've been aware of this,
and some of you maybe you haven't. But ever since
2008, there has essentially been, a back door,
and every Intel chip that's been made. Did you
say 2008? 2008. I don't think I realized that.
Intel Management Engine. I thought this was more
like, I don't know, 17. No, no, no, no, no, no,
no. 17, it got a fair amount of notoriety with
security people going, hey, yeah, there really
is a problem here. This is an issue. I don't
know if you've noticed, but. So basically, Intel
Management Engine. is its own, I think it's okay
to clarify it as its own computer, if you will,
that exists inside of your Intel processor. Computer?
Computer, yes. Computer. Use the mouse. Computer?
Yes. So think of it truly as having a separate
computer that exists inside of your CPU. Is this
like, okay. And it runs its own operating system.
Yeah. This is like when you partition a hard
drive. Yeah. And you're saying like, no, this
is used for this and this is used for this. Yeah.
This is how this has worked in my head. Is this
not? No, because when you have, you're thinking
like a dual boot for two different operating
systems. Right. Well, that's what people might
think it should be. But imagine that you. Basically,
you'd have to boot both OSs at the exact same
time. And one, not be aware that the other is
there. Okay. See, that sounds so bad. This is
totally nefarious. So it runs an operating system
called Minix. What did you just say? Minix. Not
Linux, but Linux. No, that's not. This is a spoof.
Hold on. No, no, no, no, no, no. You can look
it up. Google it right now, live on the show.
I'm not doing it. Bingit .io. I already Googled
some of this, and it scared the crap out of me,
so I don't actually want to know. Yeah, so this.
Guys, y 'all listen. I'm just going to plug my
ears for the rest of the show. Let me know when
you're done, Chris. I'm not listening. I'm not
listening. So this. Yeah. He couldn't even come
back from that. Jeez. I'm not listening. I'm
not dead yet. I'm not dead yet. So this exists
on your CPU. If you try to disable it. Whether
you want it to or not. Your CPU will not be able
to function. Yeah, that's. That's kind of where
we're at with this level. That's so jacked up.
So this management engine can literally see anything
and everything that's going on. And nothing in
your normal day -to -day use of the machine knows
it exists. Windows doesn't know it's there. You're
not going to see special processes. Nothing.
You could leverage this to totally spy on an
individual. Keystrokes, screenshots, you name
it. You could leverage this to inject various...
Whatever you want. I mean, virus, malware, you
name it. Ransomware, you could totally leverage
this, inject it into the system. And this runs
at such a deep level that even your fancy schmancy
beyond antivirus doesn't see it. It's like a
total ghost in the machine. And it's designed.
It's designed for that on purpose. It was billed
as, hey, look, we're going to give you a way
that you can remotely manage these computers.
And guess what? If the computer is turned off,
shut down, but you still have it plugged into
power and it's physically plugged into the LAN,
you can still get into that computer and get
into Intel Management Engine and do what you
need to do. Okay, Chris, I'm getting angry. This
is where it is. And then where it gets even crazier
is that the CIA and the NSA get special chips
that don't have management engine included. This
is like Congress not having to do, or not Congress,
the American government not having to do anything
with, excuse me, I had not swallowed all the
way. They don't have to do anything with like
workplace. Whatever you call it. Like any regulation
they have on the workplaces does not apply to
them. Correct. This is terrible. So you can imagine
possibilities there. There have been major flaws
in the system that they've patched over time.
But eventually your chip ages and you don't get
any updates anymore. It's not being addressed.
So granted, most people probably aren't running.
from 2008 to maybe 2015. I'd like to think that
most people have. I have one in the other building
if you want to go look at it with me. Hold on.
Shoot it. That's that Vostro 1400 that I was
talking about. I can't. It's the only one that
interfaces with the sign. Obviously, the older
your computer gets, you don't get updates. Everybody
understands that. That doesn't mean that magically,
oh, hey, there's never going to be any issues
determined with your processor that no one could
ever exploit. It's just the nature of it. The
other fun thing that I ran into in researching
this is, do you remember the WannaCry ransomware?
The one that absolutely exploded and went all
over the globe? When was this? I don't remember
the name. That's why. Yeah, you're putting me
on the spot. Let's see. WannaCry, 2017. No. There's
a screenshot of what it looked like. Yes. Okay.
So, fun fact. WannaCry happened because of the
NSA. They specifically went to Microsoft and
said, hey, don't patch this exploit. actively
using this okay in the work that we do microsoft
caved eventually it got figured out and the world
was introduced to want to cry and it spread like
wildfire um yeah all because the nsa convinced
them not to patch a problem gross yes so all
that to say intel management engine is a giant
Succubus? Definitely a succubus. It fits the
definition. It's a security nightmare. So you
can't get away from it because everybody has
Intel -based machines unless you're more recent
on Mac and you're into the M -series. I need
to look to see if there is anything even remotely
close to this in the ARM world. If you're working
in IT, you're probably running on Intel -based
machines. Patch, patch, patch, patch, patch.
Don't let it sit any longer than it has to for
testing. Patch, stay as current as you can. There
are some companies out there that are working
on ways to try to disable it. There's some open
-source Linux folks that are trying to put together
laptops that would give you the ability to control
this. Of course, the vast majority of the world
is not going to switch to Linux for the desktop.
Nope. So, yeah, this is just a horrible mess.
It's not going anywhere. Yay. So, but yeah, the
idea that your machine could be sitting there
shut down, you're thinking it's off. But because
of the beauty of wake on land, I can now. gain
access to the Intel management engine, boot the
system up and do whatever I need to do. Yeah.
Wake on land has always been one of those things
that I was like, Oh, that's such a good idea.
And now I'm like, ah, I hate you. So, uh, but
yeah, thank you. Uh, Intel, thank you. Three
letter agencies. And there's no telling how many.
Times this has been used for various exploits.
Oh, you know, if you don't comply, there might
be something that shows up on your computer.
Yeah, and after you sent me that is when I found
the thing about the Raspberry Pi. It was like,
oh, no, you don't want Raspberry Pi. It was whatever
professor. What school was that person from?
Anyway, I want to kind of go on a deep dive with
that whole thing and figure out exactly how.
Are you getting paid by China? Anyway, she was
talking about how you shouldn't use raspberry
pie because of this. The orange pie. Orange pie
or whatever. And it was like, yeah, you know
that's manufactured in China, right? Correct.
Yeah, with the rock chip. You don't think they
have? Their own back doors. Their own back door
here? China would never do that. No. Only the
American government would do that. They're all
about freedom. Yes. Imperial pig dogs. Of course
they have back doors. Imperial pig dogs. anyway
so you know if you just weren't scared I actually
told Rebecca who I work with she was talking
about how paranoid she was getting because she
was hanging out with these she's in charge of
our safety team which is kind of a security and
first response inside of a church yeah anyway
um the people that she has to hang out with like
do this all the time every day and so two of
the people she was talking about she spent a
lot of time with she spent an hour and a half
with one of them in two hours with the other
and so she was like super uh paranoid and i was
like well i'm about to go talk to chris kincaid
you want to just shoot yourself in the face now
it's about like you come hang out with us you're
gonna be nervous about Using your computer. Using
anything. I mean, just can't even print now.
Well, don't even get me started on printer hacks.
Jeez. That was pretty funny. I sent Chris the
meme that was going around. Gutenberg invents
a printing press. Hey, what does it say? You're
low on magenta. Yes, that's about right. That's
about right. Okay. The only thing better is the
classic PC load letter. Yeah. What the heck does
that even mean? You're just, yeah. And then you
take the printer out back and beat it with a
baseball bat. I have been tempted more than once
to destroy. And I did. Did I? Okay. So my, my
daughter. This will be the end. Okay. I caught
my daughter with a Chromebook hidden under her
pillow. Oh, a school Chromebook? No. We got them
these Chromebooks to do their homework in 2020,
and they were old Chromebooks in 2020. I will
admit I made the classic mistake of this thing
is so outdated. need to like keep tabs on it
yeah which is just stupid don't do that but i
did failure failure as a husband failure as a
father failure um and i uh um my wife actually
busted my son with one in his room which is a
like this is a standing rule in our house there's
no technology in bedrooms like don't you're not
doing it like we don't we don't we don't take
the switch into bedrooms we don't like you're
allowed to listen to like you're allowed to listen
to music on your little speaker in your room
but like my son got a little mp3 player like
no no you're not allowed to even mess with that
in your room. So just like, we're not doing this.
I don't, I don't need that stress anyway. So
standing rule about that, he breaks it. And of
course his responses, my oldest sister has one
in her room. So of course, you know, her, her
door is locked. Cade has knocked his door off
the hinges. So he just doesn't even have a door.
Okay. But Madison's door is locked. which is
not supposed to be. And so Lori gets in there,
finds this, uh, computer under her pillow. Madison
brings it to me and I'm going through the search
history and you know, like honestly it's not
as bad as it could have been. Sure. But I don't
let my kids on YouTube because I, I, I trust
my children. I don't have a problem with YouTube,
but I know the way that these algorithms work.
And I know how easy it is to stumble into areas
that you don't need to be in as a kid. And so
like, I'm, I'm just terrified. I'm sure that
I'm going to find, and I, it really is pretty
tame. All things considered, except for the fact
that there's a lot of days that she's been up
until like two, three in the morning. And I'm
like, babe, if I hear you complain about being
tired one more time. Yeah. I just like, you've
lost all sympathy from your daddy because of
this, but find this out. And then, um, my first
question to Lori, like I'm looking at this like
huge scroll of YouTube videos. Um, and nothing
really honestly too concerning, which I was so,
so grateful for, but just so filled with like,
I can't believe you're hiding this from us. We're
not like, we're not keeping you from, this isn't
like a Chromebook that she shares with her brothers.
Each of them has their own. And again, they're
super outdated, but whatever, like what a killed
for this kind of access when I was a kid. Yeah.
And as much as I've secured it, which honestly
I got to be like, man, I am really grateful that
I did the work on the network to make sure that,
I mean, I don't know if she tried to find things
that she just couldn't, or if this really is
all she's looking at. But again, nothing terrible.
I look at Lori, I'm like, is this ours? Like,
did, do we own this? Or was this like some, one
of her friends? Like, cause I didn't buy it.
I know that. I'm like, this isn't the schools,
and your friend who we got these from didn't,
like, loan them to us five years ago, and we
just forgot to give them back. She's like, no,
they're ours. And I just grabbed both ends of
that Chromebook and snapped it in half. Yikes.
And, like, did it a few more. Like, I could see
this is pitch black in my room because it's that,
like, we're at 1130 at night. We're supposed
to be asleep. And you see the hinge on that thing
light up and then disappear. And then I basically
break it in half and then twist it to pop the
screen off the thing. And it's dark enough, but
I still see my daughter's eyes go. And all she
can say is, do you want me to throw it in the
trash? I was like, yes. Yes, please do. Throw
that in the trash. That's what daddy thinks of
something that's going to make you disobey. So
every once in a while you just got to break something.
Break stuff. It did feel good. It was cathartic.
If you can spare the piece of technology to hit
it with a baseball bat or nine iron or whatever
it is. Chromebooks come pretty cheap though.
Oh, this one was free. Well, that's even better.
So I didn't even feel it in that sense. Yeah.
Just in the betrayal sense. Anyway, I'm going
to eat the rest of the sandwich. You do that.
You still got beer left. That was a lot of beer,
man. I'm going to drink it. Of course you are.
But we've been talking. We have. So hard to.
For an hour and 40 minutes. I think that's our
longest show. Congratulations. Yeah, and you
wanted to get out of here early. Two episodes
for one. Yeah. Anyway, always good to talk to
you. Enjoyed it. See you, everybody. See you.
Hit it. I got ants. I got ants. You've got karma.