Hey, Kris, how are we doing? Good. How are you
doing, John? I'm doing good. You're going to
go ahead and pop the top? I am super excited
about drinking this beer. I'm going to shield
my eyes. This is the red Chimay. Chimay Premier.
And it's got one of those champagne tops on it.
Yeah, it does. Just everybody make sure that
your face is properly not pointed in the way
of the beer. Hold on. Wait. Come on. One, two,
three. You've got me thinking of SNL cork soakers.
Cork soakers. One, two, three. Oh, that didn't
even fly. It just stayed in my hand. Wow. Ow.
I did it wrong. That's pretty great though. Okay.
Yeah. Give me your mug. Oh yeah. Oh, that smell
folks. I'm just. Huffing the cork, I guess you'd
say. Oh, my gosh. All right, well. Oh, that is
so good. One way there. Well, last night, in
preparation for this, I opened up my bottle,
the little bottle at home of the blue, the Grand
Reserve. Okay. Oh, but this smells so much better.
I really like the red. Yeah, the blue, the Grand
Reserve is a little more fruity. Mm -hmm. Still
good. But the red, yeah, I think the red is my
favorite. Chimay Premier is a copper -tinted
brown ale. Mm -hmm. Agree. That combines generous
hints of fruit, toast, and sweet caramel. Okay.
The Trappist logo certifies that this ale is
brewed in a Trappist Abbey. and that the majority
of sales income is intended for social aid. The
exceptional yeast isolated by Father Theodore,
combined with the purity of the highly protected
water of the abbey's wells, gives Chimay its
unique richness since 1862. Chimay's secondary
fermented ales have neither been pasteurized
nor filtered, and only natural ingredients are
used. Beer fermented in the bottle contains barley
and wheat. Yep. So careful, barley and wheat.
Yes. And I think in these larger bottles, you
actually end up with some of the, oh, now I'm
going to draw a blink on it, the yeast in the
pour. I mean, it always looks like there's something
in it. We call that sediment. Sediment. Yes.
Sedimentary. It's good, isn't it? I mean. Who
needs smelling salts when you got that? It's
so good. Anyway. Good beer. Here we go. Cheers.
Cheers. Mine is more than half head right now.
Well, mine was there a while ago, but it's settling.
Oh, yeah. That's good. It's smooth. There's not
a lot of bitter. Yeah. No secret hints of anything
once you've let it go down your gullet. No, it's
great. It's a really good one. I mean, and this
would probably be one of the lighter beers that
you enjoy. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of in, it's,
yeah, it's in that Shiner -ish range. Yeah, the
Newcastle Brown Ale. Little. A little less translucent
than Shiner. Yeah. You try to look through this
thing, and you're like, no, I'm not seeing the
other side of the mug. I'm looking through the
mud, but it tastes so good. Yeah, it's delicious,
though. Oh, yeah, it is good. Oh. What just happened?
Don't do it. I just got the notification on my
computer that it wants to run updates. Oh, no.
Never run updates before or during the show.
Definitely not during the show. Um, this is 7
% by volume. Yeah. Yeah. That, that is a good
one. Um, so we've had, this is our second time
to have this one on the show. We've had the blue,
the grand reserve. Uh, I had the door a at home
and I still have one small bottle of that that
I need to drop. And then I have a small bottle
of the sink scent. Oh yeah. From them. And then
that, once I kind of have that one, then that
will complete the set for me. The Sink Scent
is what color? It's the same. No, sorry. No,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's white, but
it's also very similar to the Dore bottle. Okay.
So. Well, there you go. Yeah. Yeah, I haven't.
I just had the blue, the red, and the Dore white.
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Highly recommend Chimay if you
haven't tried it. Ah, so good. You will love
it. And we really like the red. Yes, the red
is very, very good. Anyway. It is an amazing
ale. Yep, just going to keep drinking over here.
What are we talking about tonight? We need a
second bottle. We do need a second bottle. Next
time we do this, we do need two. This mug is...
Making it look pretty weak. Did I get any? I'm
going to have to try to pace mine because I didn't
bring a backup. This is where I need my little
jingle that goes the backup to the backup to
the backup to the backup. Also important. Tonight
we're talking about wherever you're going to
lead us in regards to Apple Business Manager.
I'd love to talk about some of the... struggles
that you've had okay and of course you would
of course yeah well yeah we got to put it out
there i mean get a chance to bash apple i'm going
to take advantage of it yeah absolutely um you
know especially before they bring out all that
liquid glass i so help me um i said that on purpose
oh gosh we haven't talked about it no we haven't
and i think you know how i feel about it oh absolutely
that's why i said it i mean i'm poking the bear
are you kidding me I don't like I I it's not
uh I'm not against Apple like I use so much of
their technology I have given them so much money
yeah um both mine and the churches the churches
and the you know camps and yeah every you know
everywhere that I've been um I've talked to people
about how this is a good solution in different
ways and why you might want to use this product
that kind of gives you fits every once in a while.
And it's like, could y 'all just like meet me
halfway? Could you stop with the like? It was
almost like that whole time they were talking
during WWDC. I felt like. I needed to yell at
the screen and Chad is right there next to me
and Cody actually hearing me get frustrated,
but I kept being like, they're talking about
liquid glass. Like it's an actual, like they,
they kept calling it a material. Yes. And I was
like, folks, don't, don't get confused. They're
not changing anything about the phone that you
have in your hand. There is no actual material
that's being used right now. They created a GUI
that looks different. And I would say, as opposed
to what it looks like right now, which is like
a frosted glass, this looks more like a liquid.
They're wasting clock cycles. Freaking talked
about it like this was a revolution. Yes. I was
like, you've got, do you not know that Johnny
Ive is now working with Sam? Like, you know this?
No, I don't. Okay. All right, here we go, folks.
Going down the rabbit hole. Yeah, this is, we
weren't going to talk about this at all. No.
Um, but, uh, open AI. Oh, he's not over there.
Is he? Uh, yeah. Oh, so they, uh, what do they
call it? IO or is it, it's IO. Um, yeah, I see
Sam and Johnny introduce IO. Um, so Johnny, I,
when he left Apple, um, he, was consulting Apple
for a little bit. Um, but yes, then he created
this firm. Well, I guess while he was doing that,
he created this firm, um, of basically former
Apple engineers, which I don't know like exactly
how that went. Like these were all open AI. Sorry.
Did I say the wrong one? You're saying that Johnny.
Okay, sorry. So Johnny created this firm, and
he started pulling in these former Apple engineers.
I'm sure there's other people, but, I mean, the
huge majority of notables inside of it were former
Apple guys. Yeah. didn't have a job at Apple
anymore, or I don't know exactly how that went.
I'm sure he poached them away. Um, but they made
all these, like, I mean, basically they had this
money, um, I'm sure from being paid a lot of
Apple stock. Um, but I don't know exactly how
all that happened, but they, they had this, this
time where they were basically making very niche.
Like they would, they would like, partner with
somebody and they would make like a desk that's
ridiculous but these one -off like design type
things that are for all intents and purposes
not valuable to the rest of us other than i'm
sure like pieces of art some you know years in
the future somebody's going to have a museum
that's like all these things that johnny ive's
team created um and so like i A lot of respect
for how intelligent and the eye that this guy
has and the people that work for him and with
him, whatever, will then open AI. Well, I guess
more than the way that they phrase it or the
way that they kind of talk about it, Sam. collaborated
with or started collaborating with or just got
getting to know i don't know johnny and then
they decided to make this partnership which boiled
down to open ai bought johnny's like team of
uh engineers and designers for 6 .4 billion dollars
Good on you, Johnny. I mean, right. Wow. And
so now they're creating this company, or they've
created this company called IO. And IO and the
whatever for it is co -founded by Johnny Ive
and Sam Altman. They're going to create a family
of products that help you interact with artificial
intelligence. Basically, the pinch point that
Altman was trying to sell inside of this was
like, if I want AI to help me with a problem,
you and I are talking and I want AI to like...
Help me with a problem and be like, oh, hey,
this conversation that we just had, I want you
to summarize it for me and give me talking points
and stuff like that. I would have to take out
my computer and then I would have to type in
all this stuff and then I'd have to input all
this. And that's how your computer works with
AI. Yeah. Or how you use your computer to work
with AI. And that just doesn't make any sense
for what actually this new. I actually think
that whenever I heard them talking about it,
they didn't reference AI that much. They talked
about new technology. Okay. But it's kind of
obvious what they were talking about if they
didn't say it out loud. Anyway, so I don't know.
But in the next year, it looks like they're going
to make some pretty big waves. It does not appear.
They said something about, Chad was saying that
they, like, it won't be a, it won't be glasses.
Okay. And it doesn't appear to be a watch. But
some sort of wearable that is going to help you
interact with AI. And then that's the first thing
that they're working on. This is supposed to
be a family of devices, so I don't really know
what that looks like either. Okay. But you hear
stuff like that and you're like, oh, I mean,
or you see the Google announcement. Which one?
Their AI like. Oh, the video? The video stuff.
Yeah, the Veo or whatever it's called. Holy cow.
Well, the thing that I'm seeing there is their
polished demos look amazing, but the people who
are now going and trying to use it are struggling
to reproduce that type of an output. And so it's
like, okay, what level of coding, or not coding,
what level of prompt jockeying did you have to
do to achieve the output that you got? Well,
I mean, let's be honest about something with
AI right now, and that's... Yes, the skill that
is going to need to be taught to everyone or
that they're going to need to learn or that is
going to be valuable when you have somebody for
these spaces is prompt jockeying, is the guy
who can make it do. But in order to do that,
you still need to know. how to achieve what you're
trying to get the AI to do. Cause you have to
know it in order to tell the AI how to do it.
Right. You can't just sit down and learn how
to do some prompts and achieve what somebody
who's been a videographer or a photographer has
always done. Yeah. I mean, to an extent that
like, that's part of the like coding, like the,
you, if you know how to talk to a photographer
in a way that, um, A photographer understands
you should be able to prompt an AI that has all
of that photography. Jargon based or. All of
the photography. Editing or, you know, whatever
usefulness related to the jargon. Like, yeah,
that's like one. Once you know. okay, this is
what it expects. And this is what it means for
output. Like that's going to be the, for everything.
So, I mean, you know, there's a level where we,
we think about this as a really complex thing,
but we thought of the, like, you know, when the
touchscreens first came out, we thought of it
as really complex thing. And then Our children
pick them up and we're like, and you're like,
how did you know how to do that? Yeah. At some
point, that's going to be AI where we're able
to intuit what it's expecting in order to get
there. I don't think it's going to be quite the
same, but all of that's going to have to be baked
in on the back end. I just don't think all this
AI is going to get there because of the need
for all of the compute and the need for all of
the power. I think they're going to reach a point
to where it's going to be stuck. Just like all
the technology is stuck because of batteries.
No one can figure out a better battery. So technology
can't get any better. Your phone can't get better.
Your laptop can't get better because you're stuck
with what a battery can handle. And I think AI
is going to be hamstrung by the compute and the
cost of power. Yeah. And the space. So one of
the things that I was talking to somebody about
was the. Like they were sticker shock about how
much per month I think it's going to take or
it's going to go for, especially with the VAO.
Which is less, I mean, you're paying less for
that than you would an intern. So you got to
imagine people who are actually doing a lot of
videos and stuff like that. What are you expecting
this thing to do? And can it replace a human
being? Yeah. Yes. So, I mean, at some level.
So, that's the, like, they were sticker shocked
about that. I was like, no, you don't understand
how much, like, they've got to start building
an infrastructure. If they haven't already, they
can actually handle the number of people who
are going to try this. Not who are going to,
like, stay with it. but who are going to try
it because what it can't do is fail based on,
we didn't have enough servers ready. And I was
talking to somebody else about like, Oh, it was
Cody talking to him about the jobs that we think
are safe. And he was thinking like, you know,
pest control is safe. You're always going to
need somebody to come to your house and spray
for bugs. And I was like, yeah, AC guys are,
Because even the computers need AC. Yeah. And
you're talking about all these huge servers and
all these ACs running to keep them cold. Yep.
That power draw by itself, that's an expensive
building. Oh, yeah. Even if it's a big metal
insulated building. Basically, all these data
centers are going to need their own nuclear power
plant. Insulated buildings. Yeti needs to start
building. Get Yeti involved. I mean, you're talking
about you've got to have these to do these things.
That makes me think of the end of Tim Burton's
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Right. The
dad is now back fixing the robot that stole his
job. Yeah. And that's where you're going to be.
Yeah. It's going to be this weird thing. Switch
back. So where I thought you were maybe going
with Google, and then I need to point out a picture
here. Recently, Google started announcing Gemini
as an add -on to your Google setup. And you've
probably already seen an email on this because
the church uses it. Four or five. I've had a
conversation with our rep today who is informing
me that I'm so lucky and fortunate that they've
now wrapped Gemini into the product. I'm like,
oh, okay. Oh, and by the way, the... cost is
going up a dollar per user per month. And I'm
like, hold on, timeout, timeout, timeout. What
if I don't want the? Yes, you can turn it off
if you don't want it. So I'm like, let me get
this. Do you get the dollar back if you turn
it off? No, you don't get the dollar back. So
I'm like, let me get this straight. You offered
a service. Nobody apparently wanted it. So you
rolled it into the service and raised my cost.
That should tell you something. No, yes, absolutely.
Because nobody wanted it at the cost that they
were pitching it at. I guarantee everybody would
be like, that was great. They don't understand
the beta that they're in. I don't think when
it comes to that stuff. Everybody thinks everybody's
just going to jump on board. It's like everybody
and their dog who's not like has all the money
in the world to like throw at these things is
waiting to see. Yes. everybody's going, uh, show
me. Well, now they get to show me and an extra
dollar per user per month. So, so the picture
I want to go to going back to Sam and Johnny,
um, I don't know who told them this was a good
picture. I, the one where they look like they're
on, um, they're a band. Uh, uh, no, I think I
would. Well, show me. I'm going to swallow my
opinion and I'll just show you the picture. Okay.
That picture? Yeah, no, that looks like a Simon
and Garfunkel picture to me. Well, yeah, yeah.
You see what I'm saying? Yeah, I see that. But
yes, they could also be framed in a living room.
They look like a... Gay couple. I'll say it kindly
that way. No, I was saying them. Framed in a
living room. Framed in a living room, yes. Sorry,
I meant their living room. Their living room,
yes. I look at that picture and I'm like, that's
the best picture you'll have. I think maybe it's
because it looks like he's leaning his head on
his head. Yeah, and he's got that hand on the
shoulder. Yeah, but it also kind of looks like
they asked AI to do it. Maybe, maybe. The light
on. And there's just something about that bald
head and his glasses and that half smirk on his
face that just looks a little out of place. I
just don't. I mean, that's probably what I'm
reading about the AI. I'll have to put the link
to this in the show notes. It looks like it's
funny. It's just kind of funny. It's something,
that's for sure. Man, I was having all kinds
of weird things also during WWDC where I was
trying to figure out why I was having. a brain
glitch between the way that they were that it
that it sounded the way it sounded and what i
was seeing and it was only happening whenever
somebody was on screen and they were talking
and you know they they they record you know all
that's done it's a production they're i get all
that but the like this was the first time that
it looked like they were the audio wasn't recorded
on a sound stage it was recorded on a like in
a isolation booth and my my head was just having
a hard time it didn't match what you were the
audio just doesn't line up with what you're seeing
with what i'm seeing and i was like i've seen
that with like you know you see an ai generated
video or picture or something like that and you're
like the light's coming in from the wrong place
your your brain can like discriminate these things
yeah something's not right this was the first
time i had that feeling with with audio where
i was like oh i don't i don't like that like
yeah that feels off intriguing i i just i saw
a nine minute summary video on youtube watched
you didn't watch the whole thing no i got halfway
through the summary video and i had to stop yeah
okay so at the very end um when they talked about
it's so funny sitting there with these two guys
these two other guys that use apple products
it's not like we're looking for things to be
upset with one of them in you know has stock
so like i i think we're all you know we were
all kind of hoping for better um and we get towards
the very end and, and I was like, wait, wait,
wait, wait. They're talking about, they were
talking about the iPad OS, which immediately
like my brain wants to shut them off whenever
they start talking about iPad OS, because there
shouldn't be a separate OS now for iPad and Mac.
But whatever, they're not listening to me. And
evidently they're a lot smarter than me or something.
But like, The, I, so I was just, I was, my brain
was, was starting to go in a different direction.
I was starting to like play through emails that
I needed to respond to in my head. I was in a
different world. And then all of a sudden they
have the windows separate. Yes. Um, in the, on
the screen. And I was like, Oh, are they, is
this how they tell us? And they like, they stopped
short. of course but they did some unique stuff
with the ipad os yeah for stage manager yeah
i mean it's not even it doesn't look like stage
manager it looks like oh yeah it looks like like
the whole time they're showing like the they're
showing the cursor and everything looking like
a cursor and i was like guys they kept talking
about how like familiar it'll feel or whatever
and i was like it's familiar because it's a laptop
yeah like i'm not trying to be that But like,
are you kidding me? Yeah. It's familiar for a
reason that, that, that, that's what we, that's
what it looks like when you do it on a laptop.
Yep. Don't, I feel like I'm being gaslit. Yeah.
Yeah. No, this is totally new. And oh man. Do
you know 12 South? You, you probably, I wouldn't
expect you to know 12 South because they really,
some of the Apple products like they make. Yeah.
They're on the Apple store. Yeah. They make pretty
specific products to Apple. Um, some things I'm
sure are not, I'm sure. I know that some things
would be able to, um, be used in, uh, on non
Apple devices, but they've been known for being
primarily Apple kind of unapologetically. Yep.
Um, they, you're going to love this. Uh, I need
to find it, but I need to also talk about it
and I can't really do two things at once. Um,
but the, uh, they came out with this revolutionary
product. Okay. Revolutionary. Yeah. Very, very,
um, Apple language in the like mail out for this.
You ready for it? Okay. They're introducing power
cord. I'm seeing that here on the page. The ultimate
all -in -one charging solution. Okay, so. What
they did here. Oh. What they did here, Chris,
is they attached the wall wart. To the cable.
To the cable. Huh? It's a USB -C cable. Everything.
It's a USB -C cable on one end and an Edison
plug on the other. Yeah. Everything that they
like. Hold on. One seamless solution. Just plug
into the wall and charge. Easiest way to power
up without slowing down. No separate blocks.
No matter where you are. No extra cables. no
extra cables. You're never having to, whatever
it's made to fit thoughtfully engineered. Um,
hold on, extend your reach. Okay. So it's like
four feet and 10 feet. Um, the, like everything
that they like posted in the, in the like mailer,
like the email that went out, um, which sadly
I got, um, was about how they re -imagined what
this was, could be like, you know, I almost said
supposed to be, it could be like, and I was like,
so wait, every power cable that we've ever had
before the last 10 years. Yep. That's what you
re -imagined. Yeah. I like, I hope, I hope. Because
I haven't watched any of the videos that they
made because that would be way too much effort.
Look at that. They're plugging it into a Google
Pixel. So look, they're trying to reach out.
How diverse. I really, really hope that the videos
are as tongue -in -cheek as I hope this copy
is supposed to be read as. Okay. Because if they're
literally... Everything that Apple says that
I make fun of, they're saying with all genuineness.
That they are serious that this is the first
time that this has ever been thought of. It's
like, you missed the Android device that does
that? i could see a company like this taking
it very seriously and really believing what they
believe okay if that's the case then like i'm
losing all of my faith in humanity because you've
just like no matter how big you are and you're
not that big you you've got to have your head
out of your butt well enough to be able To see
this. I need, I need my jingle. Yeah, for sure.
There's no hope for the world. I mean, it's so
bad. So like stuff like that and you know, stuff
like the Apple talking about how they, you know,
Chad, Chad, uh, related it to the, um, whenever
they, um, made the, redid the MacBook pros and
they put the ports back in. and then talked about
like in the keynote they talked about how we
uh we understand that ports are like important
to our power users or something like that and
i was like are you kidding me you understand
because everybody who has used dongles now for
the past five years has been yelling at you that
this is the stupidest thing in the world yeah
i shouldn't have to use a hub to be able to use
my laptop But, you know, whatever. It's fine.
But this is... I hate for them to see the power
charger that runs my Raspberry Pi at home. Oh,
goodness, no. Because it is a fixed wall wart
like that with a Type -C connector on the other
end. But this one's revolutionary, Chris. Now,
in fairness, mine only outputs about 5 volts.
This one is 30 watts. I don't remember. Well,
I guess I can do maybe the math, but I don't
remember the wattage right off the top of my
head. But theirs is obviously going to put out
more than what a Raspberry Pi needs. Sure, but
it's 30 watts. That's not going to charge some
MacBook Pros. You might get an error. No, absolutely.
It'll do an error. Even though I think the ones
that ship with the ears now are 35. Yeah. I mean,
it is one of those, like, this is a little bit
hilarious for a number of reasons. Number one,
that should have been 100 watt. Number two, like,
are you kidding me, revolutionary? Because I'm
going to lose my mind. You've stopped drinking
the Kool -Aid, man. Reimagined, redesigned. I
didn't ever drink that much of the Kool -Aid.
I thought, hey, this is great, and I still love
having devices that all talk to each other real
quick. When you were about to show me the picture,
I was like, well, just airdrop it to me. That's
what I thought in my head. No, no, no, no, no.
So I love that. I love the ability to do stuff
like that. I think that that's great. understand
why a company would hold all of that you know
as proprietary and not whatever because that's
how you make money um on selling multiple devices
but there's definitely like always been that
like did he just say magnificent i don't think
magnificent is the word i would use for that
beautiful Amazing. Can we, I mean, I've read
enough C .S. Lewis to know, like, you say what
you actually mean, not what you, like, that's
just, that's a different thing. Oogie. I just
love watching you slowly come around to my side.
I'm not going. You're coming around to my belief
of Apple. I, you know, it doesn't mean you're
going to stop using the product. I know that
we, I know that we have chosen different devices
here, but I don't think that we actually ever
saw this differently. It's just that for what
I need to do. See, this is where your cognitive
dissonance is kicking in and you just, you're
like, I can't, I can't, I gotta still use. Yeah.
I mean, I, I will tell you like part of me is
hoping that You know, IO, whatever this new thing
is, like, blows it out of the water. Because
if they do that, then I could see a world where
I don't have to have all of the devices that
I have. Because I don't like having four different
devices to make it through a day. Like, this
is not good. But there are things that I like.
To be a certain way. Sure. Just got to give up
the other stuff. You'll come around. You'll get
there. I have faith in you. I know you do. So
we were talking, though, about... Apple Business
Manager. And it logged me out. Because why wouldn't
it? I wasn't looking at the screen for like five
seconds. It's got to be secure and make sure
that this isn't somebody else. Cool. So the first
time that we add and activate a backup account
to avoid being locked out of, oh my gosh. Yes,
I want to do that because I'm sure that you will
try to lock me out for some reason. Yep. So basically,
like the... reason for going down this path at
all when you're managing a lot of devices um
ouch sorry i'm sure that sounded great um when
you're managing a lot of devices you you hear
a lot of people's feedback on those devices yes
um You're hearing people talk about their computers.
You're hearing people talk about the tablets.
You're hearing people talk about their phones,
the Apple TVs in my case. But there's always
inside of each one of those conversations, I
feel like somebody who is ultimately in charge
of technology in any organization. Of any size,
probably. There's all of the decisions that have
been made kind of lurking underneath that conversation.
Yes. And you're taking all of those decisions
and you're trying to pull inside of every conversation,
every correlating string that you can down or
up, I guess, to that. conversation to try to
figure out what all is being talked about you're
trying to understand where the person's coming
from yes you're trying to understand their perspective
on the problem you're trying to understand what
the actual problem is you know and for those
of you that don't know that there's a difference
between a perceived problem and an actual problem
correct you don't work in it Yes. Because we
all have heard the person try to explain the
thing that's going wrong and then be like, that's
a feature, honey. Yes. That's expected behavior.
Not a bug. Yeah. Like, or, you know, whatever
the, you know, you're, they're explaining something
and you're like, um, I think you pressed the
wrong button or I think you. probably are calling
that the wrong name or correct whatever the thing
is so like you're there's just a lot of juggling
that's going on whenever you're having these
conversations and you have for a lot of us you
have like days where you will have 50 of these
conversations and you will have days where you
won't have any conversations and then you'll
have another day where you have 30 conversations
and then you like you're spreading this out but
you're trying to like then tie those conversations
together to try to figure out like how how are
all these things related what are the things
that we can do to then improve overall how are
we yes making sure that we don't just don't just
have the wi -fi up every day the way that they're
expecting it to be like the air conditioning
you know And my favorite communications are the
ones where the power will be out and then somebody
messages me and asks, does that mean the Wi -Fi
is out? And I'm like, I don't know how to tell
you this. This is not a chicken and egg conversation.
No. Everywhere that the power is out, there is
no Wi -Fi. Correct. Now I understand like if
we had, if power was out means we're running
on generators. If you're that kind of company,
like great. More power to you. That's awesome.
But a lot of us, that's not exactly the conversation
that we're having. So you're like, you're instead
of just having like just the general connectivity
issues, you're instead wanting to move forward
towards how do we make this a better experience?
And how do we make this a more secure experience?
Because everybody who's not thinking about security
are just people that don't know. I mean. Security
is everyone's responsibility. It is not just
IT's. It's not. And I think that most people
aren't thinking about it because they don't,
they're thinking they don't have anything that
they. could lose you gotta go phil baker and
tell him remember everybody's in it everybody's
in it i did i didn't i didn't handle that well
i felt some i felt some feelings in that moment
for those who don't know phil baker at that time
he's still at pinecone but at that time he was
in charge of marketing and he was letting us
know that everyone is in the marketing department.
And there's some truth to what he's saying. Yeah,
we all need to be talking about our experience.
See, now that makes me have feelings. Some of
us probably need to not talk about our experience.
You're right. But that's part of being in the
marketing department is knowing when to talk
and when not to. Correct, correct. But for me,
it's all this social media stuff. They've ruined
the whole concept of... Shared experience. And
it's like, no, don't say these things. Don't
ruin the language for me. No, for sure. And they
put their money where their mouth was and we
all made phone calls and it was horrible. And
that's when we got to realize, no, there are
people that are in IT for a reason. Absolutely.
And not in marketing. We are not your frontline
people. There are people who are in all kinds
of positions that aren't in. development and
that's a good thing yep um but all that to say
like you're you're trying to to um we've got
a so in a in a spiritual sense sorry to um derail
us again it feels like a rabbit trail all the
time but in a spiritual sense we talk about how
um at the church we talk about how you want to
um dig wells before you are thirsty. You want
to invest in things that are, I mean, it doesn't
even have to be spiritual. If you know the four
boxes, the matrix of urgent and important and
non -urgent, non -important. The idea that there
are things that are important but not urgent,
and those never get done because of the urgent
and not important, and the urgent and important.
Urgent and important, yeah, of course, they're
going to get done. But it seems like then the
other two, urgent and... How am I doing this?
How the urgent and not urgent, not important,
never gets done. And then urgent, important always
gets done. Urgent, not important actually gets
done before important, not urgent. Yeah. And
there's so many times that you need to spend
energy, resources, whatever, in that area. And
that's what this well digging is. You're trying
to get to the water. before you have to out of
the water, you're going to die. Yeah. That type
of thing. So that's what it feels like working
in IT, I feel like, a lot of the time. And so
one of the things that I have been trying to
figure out is how do we carrot and stick our
people? Yeah. Because we don't have a stick.
True. I'm sure there are IT departments out there,
there are IT professionals out there who have
a stick. Yeah, but they probably don't work in
a ministry. Yeah, no, we're not allowed to have
a stick. There are people who are allowed to
have a stick. Funny. I'm not going to go into
it anyway. But there's no stick. So how do we
carrot our people? into these good choices? How
do we carrot our people into digging these wells
before we're all dry and thirsty or a hacker
comes in and demands millions of dollars? Too
soon. Anyway, so looking at all of that, there's
a couple of different things. Number one, we've
got some children running around our campus.
And they like to get on the iPads. Yeah, they
do. And, you know, most of the stuff that happens
when that stuff happens is very no big deal.
And then some of it, nope, we really needed to
lock that down. But then you have the, again,
not having the stick and somebody can't make
something work. Because it was locked down. And
so there's just a lot of how do we do this better?
Same thing with any device that we have. You
know, they didn't think about needing this device
for this person before they came on staff. And
now they have to have it. And I'm not in the
state or whatever the scenario is. And so there's
just always going to be a need for managing.
And there are new tools out there for helping
IT professionals. And by new, I mean in the last
25 years, there are tools out there for helping
individuals who are working in IT to provision
and monitor and do all these things. But they
take some... Architectural knowledge. Yeah. They
take. A higher level of. Thought. Especially
with Apple devices. Because Apple devices are.
And they're. They're made for individuals. Not
for business. That's exactly what I was trying
to say. Like their philosophy is. That they're
making these. Devices for the individual. Now,
that means that the individual should have complete
control over their device. How dare you say that
blasphemy? And I think every IT guy is going,
I mean, sure, if it's theirs, but it's not theirs.
No. I bought this for them. I mean, the company
bought this for them. And so when I'm responsible
then for making sure that nothing sensitive or
whatever from the company. It's put in the wrong
hands. It seems like a bad, bad situation to
be in. So Apple's come around. There's been a
few companies, of course, that have marketed
to this and built complete businesses from this
weakness in Apple. Yep. JumpCloud. It's one that
we've talked about a lot. Yep. Jamf. Jamf, yep.
What are some of the other ones that you're either
using or have looked at? Just like in terms of
pure mobile device management. Not necessarily
even Apple because this is a thing across platforms.
Oh, what's the – you're putting me on the spot.
MDM, it was, they were bought out by Avanti.
MobileIron. MobileIron is one that I've evaluated.
What's the one that we used to use for iPads
only? Air? Oh, AirWatch. AirWatch. And that's
now VMware. VMware. It was bought by VMware.
Bought by VMware, yes. We've used Hexnode. We
use that primarily for managing Androids. Really?
Yes. They've got a pretty good solution for that.
You can manage Apple in it as well. It's not
just, and you can, for that matter, you can put
a Mac in it, you can put a Windows device in
it. There was a couple other companies that we
looked at. I think because of how much work it
takes to actually backdoor one of these solutions
and not be beholden to Apple or Google or Microsoft.
There's a lot of work that has to go into it.
So a lot of these companies started off only
doing one type. they would either only do tablets
or they would only do phones or they would only
do computers or, you know, so they're there for
a while. It very much felt like something that
you had to have multiple of these in order to
really do it well for the entire. Yeah. Cause
you almost needed one per one per platform. Yeah.
And, and so, you know, for some things like,
That's always going to be the case. Like Apple
business, as I'm looking at what we have and
what we're actually going to be using this for,
there are very few devices that we have that
wouldn't fall under that umbrella as an organization.
But for a company that has a lot of different
devices, a lot of different things that they're
trying to manage, you definitely need to be looking
at one of these ones that has gone into more
areas. And I would actually say, like, you know,
the more I've looked into this, the more there's
a part of this being. We will talk about also
a part of this being single sign on where you're
going to have to evaluate that side of it as
separate from. maybe the way that you're doing
all the other parts of it. Correct. And so like
there's, there's just a bunch of things that
have to come together. And so, like I said, that's
the architect like mindset of it is this, this
house is not just a kitchen. Yeah. This is not
just a foundation. There's going to be a roof
like, yeah. And so like trying to figure out
how all of these pieces fit together and trying
to do it in a way that does not cost whoever
you are doing this for way too much money is
everything is subscription based now. Yes, it
is. And you're going to like, if you don't do
it well, you're going to end up spending hundreds
of dollars a month on solutions that only get
you. part of the way there yeah yeah and i would
say you know you're getting into the elements
of zero trust yeah um so you're gonna identity
is probably where you really want to start and
what i mean by that is where is your source of
truth for username and passwords and then from
there then you do get into traditional mobile
device management and then from there you're
going to get into single sign -on yeah So we've
been an Active Directory company for a long time.
Yes. And that's fine. Like, it's great. It's
where I think most everything started. Absolutely,
yeah. Like, there's a concept here. But it does
seem like now may be the time to move to the
cloud in some of these solutions. And in fact,
probably for us. all of these solutions and so
um even looking at uh for us it's looking at
like where our email provider being google i
think there's there's a lot of okay how are we
gonna how are we gonna leverage what google has
to offer with other things now one of the things
that i like about google is that they are trying
to play with more people yes um that's the thing
that i don't like about apple It's like use us
or don't use anything. Pretty much. And that's
hard to deal with. So, again, just trying to
figure out how these things all work together.
Making sure that you can reference synonyms in
one place and not have to. have everybody's,
oh, no, that's the password that you use for
this, but it's not the password that you use
for this. I cannot tell you how many times I
get people help desking about, I can't log into
my email. You're using your computer password.
Yep. Yep. But I'm really grateful for those people
because it means that they have more than one
password. Yes, it does. Gotta applaud that. Anyway,
there's a lot to it. So I guess the other thing
that I didn't mention when we were talking about
levels, when you're talking with Apple, the real
foundation is business manager. There's a ton
of features that you may or may not use, but
you've got to get your devices in the business
manager or getting them into a MDM is going to
be difficult. Or even if you get it there, you're
going to be hamstrung. That device is going to
present as a personal -owned device and not a
corporate -owned device. So we started down the
Apple Business Manager route because it was a
necessary evil for getting everything else done.
Bring on the horror story, baby. So we start
going. Number one, they've got a new thing called
Apple Business Connect, which is like, you know
how Google, in order to be represented correctly
on Google Maps, you have to go through all the
stuff with your Google profile. You have to own
where you are. You have to own your domain, of
course, but you have to own like. we are who
like we are, where we say we are, we're who we
say we are. I understand there's all kinds of
really great reasons for that kind of security.
Well, instead of, instead of leveraging somebody
else's tool here, which I guess they did for
a little while, Apple has now decided they're
going to do their own, which is now this business
connect thing. So you're connecting to where
you are on there. uh map you're like all of it's
separated now and it it's just kind of it's it's
another headache and especially when it's called
business connect and you've got business manager
and for some reason i don't know if it was just
when i started this process like they they acted
like they like they don't have anything to do
with each other yep um it was really a pain in
the butt And so it's like they should tell you
an order and they don't do that. So I'm doing
all that at the same time. I'm also trying to
do this. I'm doing all that and realizing this
is not what I was. I didn't realize this is what
I was spending my time on. So then I start trying
to do the business manager stuff. And as I'm
working through that and trying to like work
through the. How would our organization leverage
this? And is it like, how do I make sure that
we've got the number correct to be able to do
the management assignments and things like that?
I'm getting these weird messages from, you know,
on the profile for our business. And it's telling
me that, you know, you got to do this in order
to be verified and you got to verify this and
you got to verify this and you got to verify
this. And, you know, you're stepping through
different parts of it. It's not like any of it
is way too complicated. It's just like, you know,
you've got to do your TXT file on your DNS for
your domain. And, like, you're trying to figure
out, like, you're telling it all this information
about who you are. And, well, one of the weird.
things. And again, like it wouldn't let me do
tax information until I did all this other stuff,
which I've got to make sure that that went through.
But like in one of the verified processes, which,
Oh yeah. The D the Dunn's number, the D. Yeah.
The Dunn Dunn and Bradstreet. That was fun because
we had already done all of that. And I knew we
had done all of that. We did that when we were
created, but like we. we had done all of this
stuff but like because they call all of these
things these different names you don't know if
the organization id that they're asking for is
that organization id or if it's one that apple
has given you and so you're you're kind of floating
through this in a very uh man the this is not
well done no um and there was this one seemingly
pretty innocuous uh request for They wanted me
to put another employee of the church's information
down in order to verify. And I was like, well,
our executive pastor seems like who you would
want to get to do that. And so I put his stuff
down. I sent him a little message saying like,
hey, just so you know, you should be getting
a communication from them. Anyway, I'm doing
that. That kind of feels very tangential. Didn't
really think about it. And then I did all these
other steps to walk through with trying to get
to where we can manage devices that we have purchased.
And then one day I get an email that says, you're
just looking at your cup. I'm sorry. I'm sad.
It's gone. All of it is gone. I'm sorry. I sidetracked
your story. We get all the way through doing
all this stuff, and actually I had kind of moved
on to another project because until I was verified,
there were a lot of things that I couldn't do,
and it kept saying verification pending. So I
was like, that's fine. I don't know what you're
waiting for because there's nothing saying like,
hey, this is the part that you've missed or anything
like that. And then all of a sudden I get this
email. We're on staff retreat. And it says your
Apple account has been deactivated. And there's
an email for that. There's an email for my email
account has been deactivated by Apple, which
is one of those like, yeah, you can't do that.
But like, oh, I mean, it means that I can't sign
in with that email. Correct. Cool. That's fine.
And then our, our profile has been deactivated,
like all of these things. And it like, it sent
four different emails. And so I'm not like a
freak out guy, but there was a little bit of
me that was like, should I be worried right now?
Like what, what exactly did I just miss? Yes.
And so I did have that. So. did i like i lost
everything like what worst case scenario i have
to do this whole thing all over again the only
thing that i can point to as i don't know if
it got done right is that uh communication that
they sent to our executive pastor which i don't
even know like that could have been in his junk
mail like sure i have no idea so the next time
i did it We walked through all of that excitement
and then put Chris's email on there. Chris, I
know that you will make sure that this communication
gets done even if it's not on an Apple device.
Yes. Maybe because it's not done on an Apple
device. Anyway, we get all the way through it
and we're verified now. So it only took two times.
From start to finish, I think it was two months.
Yep. But now it's like making sure that we're
pointed in the right direction before we actually
pull the trigger on anything. Because right now
I'm looking at 21 unmanaged Apple accounts found.
I don't know what you mean by that. Unmanaged
accounts? Mm -hmm. Which section do you see that
in? Managed Apple accounts? Surely you have this.
Well, it wouldn't let me into my one for the
church, so I went into my one for Pine Cove.
Okay. So I see subscription, activity, locations,
users, groups, access management, devices, assignment
history, and apps and books. So go down to your
name at the bottom and then go to preferences.
Okay. And you've got my profile then. Yep. And
then down three below that is. Org settings?
Nope. Managed Apple account. Yeah, managed Apple
accounts. And this is, I think, where any. Oh.
Yeah. Oh. User sign -in and directory sync. Oh.
I couldn't. I got to do it. Unlimited power.
I could totally do that. One click of a button.
Domain capture. I got it all. What are you exactly
getting all of? All of the 527 Apple accounts
that have a ending of at pinecove .com, but were
never created by our department. And it's like,
click. Thank you. If that's like, hmm. So think
back to all those. I have 21 of those. But think
back to all those accounts that probably started
with you, that you created. Oh, yeah, they absolutely
did. iOS and a number at Blanco .com, IWS and
a number at Blanco .com, and on and on and on
and on and on. Oh, I did. I made so many because
they wouldn't let us have more than five devices.
Now I've got all kinds of stuff running in my
head. Oof. I need to purge this so we can get
back on task. I'm really sorry. That's okay.
That's okay. I've got something to do tomorrow.
There was a lot of work that I had to do there.
Yes. No doubt. No doubt. Sorry about that. Okay.
So you've got your Apple Business Manager all
set up. You've moved into the modern. I wouldn't
say all set up. Well, I mean, you've got it active.
So you've got this. It's better than pending.
It's better than pending. So help me. So help
me. Where are you looking to go? Um, that's the
thing is we gotta, we gotta figure out, um, are
we going to, is this going to be our, um, authenticator
or non authenticator, but our, like, is this
going to be our directory? Is Google going to
be our directory? Are we going to use a, um,
Oh my gosh, who was the forerunner in my head
for, The Unify piece? No, actually, Unify was
the other option there. There was a company that
I was like, oh, they do this well. Were they
just identity? No, but I was going to use their
identity offering. because they had it separate
from everything else. And I kind of liked there
for a minute there. It may have been Okta. Okay.
Yeah. It may have been Okta. And, and the, the
idea being like, if, if that part is separate,
then I feel like it's not, if something changes,
we don't have to go through the headache of redoing
all of that. Yeah. So now you're getting into
the argument of, Should your identity be separate
from your mobile device management, be separate
from your SSO so you don't have all your eggs
in one basket? Yeah. Or do you put all your eggs
in one basket because of the seamless integration?
And seamless integration is great, but it seems
like there are a lot of, again, like if you can
find the companies that will work with other.
people will work with other companies. Like that's,
that's one of the things that I liked about Google
is that gives you a little more freedom than
if I had done, like if I had made Apple management
the way that we do that, which I don't think
that we are. But again, there are offerings now
in all these different sectors for all these
different Well, from what I remember about Okta,
and I guess we'd have to see if it's still true,
at one point when you were non -profit, they
would give you up to 50 users for free. And so
obviously for the church, that's advantageous.
Because you're under that. It gives you room
to grow. Now what I don't remember specifically,
and we'd have to get clarification from them,
is when you hit user number 51, is that when
you start paying including user one through 50
or is one through 50 always free? And then you
would start paying at user number 51 and then
go beyond that. That's a good question. That's
the piece that I don't remember. It's been a
while since I had that conversation with them,
but I'm pretty confident you can have up to 50
for free before. any cost would come into play
for a nonprofit. And then you've got to look
at, okay, so now who's going to be my MDM solution?
Do you want to leverage Apple? It's a part that
could be extended out of Apple Business Manager.
Do you want somebody like a Jamf or like a, let's
see, we looked at Miador. We looked at Kanji.
There's another one that we looked at. Even JumpCloud,
you could get just their mobile device management
if you wanted it. And so if you're getting your
identity for free, then you have a little bit
more wiggle to pay what you want to get that
better MDM. So you get some give and take there.
Or do you look at somebody like a JumpCloud,
which we... which we use and I, and I would vouch
for it. Right. But you know that because they
do identity, they do mobile device management,
they do single sign on, they do zero trust. It's
great that they have all those pieces. They all
seamlessly integrate. Yes. Which is nice, which
is Apple's whole model of come play in our playground
and everything will just work. Right. But you
do run the risk that if they got attacked, then
you lose all, you could lose everything. Yeah.
Thankfully, we haven't seen that happen. We've
seen where this particular piece of the puzzle
is having a problem, but it doesn't necessarily
impact your ability to log on and do whatever
you need to do. So it's nice that they've siloed
those systems enough that one doesn't necessarily
cause typically a cascading effect through the
others. But the caveat to that is because they
have all these pans in the fire, None of those
offerings are as feature rich as somebody that
that's all that they do. So there's give and
take and you have to look at what are they capable
of and does it meet what we need? And if it does,
great. If it doesn't, okay, then I need to go
get an NDM or whatever it may be that is more
feature rich and gives me what I need from day
one. Right. And I think that's the question is
like how, I mean, I, I really wish, I really
wish that my, my brain works better if I can
tackle a project and then see it to completion
or take a, take a task and see it to completion
and like, or at least see it to like where I
don't have to worry about it anymore. I don't
do well with then having to like juggle on finished
things. Correct. Um, I can do that like in a
day. like trying to like have, I've had to do
this thing with part of my job of trying to have
multiple conversations happening at the same
time over email. And you're trying to customer
service for all of them. We all do stuff like
that. That's probably the part of my job that
drains me the most. And so the, the idea of being
able to take the solution that gives me a win
now and like throw it through its like finished
pile stuff. That's really appealing to me. I
don't think that that's actually the best way
to do any of it. It seems like the diversification
of those solutions, the diversification of those.
Yeah, solutions of the offerings is a better
idea in terms of both security and maneuverability
in the future. Sure. But I'm done with this is
really appealing right now. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Especially
if it's only part of your job that you're talking
about. Yeah. And the driving force for us really
came down to cost. You know, because I started
looking at Okta when I was asked to get rid of
Active Directory, which broke my heart. I still
love Active Directory. I think it's still a great
resource that could be expanded with some of
these things that we're talking about. But, you
know, I had to look at it. So I started with
Okta. They, in my opinion, they are the best
option out there in the identity. offerings.
I mean, ping still makes a good solution. I'm
going to draw blanks on some of the others. I
should have done more show prep. So, but there's
a ton of, there's a bunch of different ones out
there, but Okta, I really zeroed in on them,
went through, saw all what they had to offer.
You know, I did look at ping and one login and
some of the others that exist. And I really kept
coming back. to Okta because they're, I guess
they technically give you a little bit more than
just identity. They also have bring in the single
sign on and their single sign on the depth of
what they've built out is unbelievable. Yeah.
Heads above the other players in the market,
in my opinion. And so to be able to bring those
pieces together and I got what I thought was
a fair price. I'm like, this is actually not
bad for the number of users that I need. And
it's like, okay, now let me go see. Okay, I already
know what I'm paying for Jam for MDM. Okay, now
I got to bring in Windows and I got to bring
in Android. What am I looking at? And got those
numbers and it's like, oh, that's a little rough.
And so then, you know, we get, say, hey, you
need to look at JumpCloud. And we look at it
and they bring all these pieces to the table.
And for what was just the cost of Okta. they're
giving me all the other pieces of the puzzle.
And it's like, hold on, time out. Where's the
catch here? What am I missing? Where's the fine
print? Where's the little red tape that I overlooked?
And you get into it and you just come to the
realization that not all of the MDM is as built
out as what Jamf would have, but Jamf is all
they've ever done is Mac forever. Not as strong
as... a mobile iron, but all mobile iron has
ever done is MDM for devices. And then you go,
okay, well, let's look at their single sign -on.
They have most of the major pieces that I need.
There's a few things that may still need some
time to develop. So it's like, okay. That's where
you see they have all these offerings, and typically
they have just enough to give you what you need.
And then you can see that some things are on
the roadmap for the future. And so you have to
start that evaluation of can I make this work?
Am I hamstringing myself? Are there some third
-party tools that I can bring in to extend some
of the mobile device config? And there are. The
Mac side of it, there's iMazing. I don't know
if you've ever seen that one. I have, yeah. You
can use that to build out the basic config that
you need. And we also had the luxury of having
Jamf before, so we exported all of those mobile
configs. And you can get them in an XML format,
and you can read XML and go, oh, okay, I need
to do this, this, this, this, and this. And then
we were able to leverage that. as an IT department
and go, okay, so these are the applications I'm
allowing. This is what I'm saying should be on
the dock. Okay, I can now modify that, but I've
got to go find the com .apple .whatever that
is the package name for the application. Okay,
I've got that package name. I can plug that in.
I can modify it. Now I have a whole new config.
Here, you can go be on this device. So there's
some of that that would come into play. And thankfully,
once we got the main ones that we needed, we
haven't had to worry about spinning our wheels
on that. Whereas if you had a Jamf, it's all
feature -rich. It's all built out. It's all GUI
-based. You just say, I want this application.
This is where I want it to go. And it builds
out that mobile config file for you, and you
don't have to worry about it. But there's a premium
that comes with having that level of feature
built out. And that's... And that's where the
rub is. Because you've got a budget, you've got
to stay within the budget, but you've got to
find the best solution that you can put together
for the church that doesn't break the bank, that
also doesn't compromise on security, and doesn't
compromise on the pieces that makes you feel
like you've got to stay up all night long hacking
something together. Right. And that's important.
It is. I was trying to figure that out. How do
I not devote all of my time to this thing that's
supposed to be saving me time? Correct. And you
know on the front end, there's going to be some
heavy lifting to get it off the ground, to get
it functional. Okay, I have it rolling. Now it
should just be maintaining. At some point it
has to turn into maintenance. Yes. And that's
important because not everything turns into maintenance.
Seems like a lot of things are not maintenance.
No, they just keep coming back. Yeah. So dad
comment. Anyway, it's a lot. It is. Um, you wanted
to say something to the end of the, yeah, uh,
we'll call this the, uh, the last call. So, you
know, that I've been to some numbers and been
checking analytics on the show and kind of watching
things and like, Oh, okay. That's interesting.
And rss .com gives us that, and we can kind of
see downloads per show. We can kind of go into
an individual show and see, okay, these are the
countries that it's being downloaded from. That's
intriguing. Thank you. Yes. Australia. For finally
closing the loop. Yes. So we've hit all the major
continents that people typically live on. Obviously,
we haven't gotten Antarctica, but they also don't
have Antarctica on their map. We've hit all of
it, you know, including the one off of, I believe
that's Greenland. Because I think Greenland is
the big one that's nothing but ice. And Iceland
is the smaller green one that actually has vegetation.
Pleasant to be around. Yes. It's funny how they
name those. The way that they did. It's like,
hey, don't come over here. This is Iceland. You
want to go over to Greenland. But we can see
countries where things are coming from. And that's
great, especially if you like numbers and you
want to be trying to look for patterns and going,
okay, we named the show this. We use these tags
on a show. Can I find some correlations? Between
what works and what doesn't. Yeah, these tags
seem to work better. These types of titles seem
to work better. And I haven't found it yet, but
whatever. But in the beginning, we then also
added what's called OP3 Project, which is a small
stream that gets added to our RSS feed, which
offloads our... basically our downloads and locations
of that nature to a company that is open source
and they're very transparent in what they do
and how they do. Okay. So in the beginning they
made it look like rss .com was padding because
they were showing way low numbers compared to
rss .com. And it's like, okay, well maybe there's
something going on where the hosting companies
want you. To see everything. And eventually what
happened, RSS .com did make a change. And they're
like, okay, it's pretty clear that these are...
bots that are downloading or this is apple coming
along and scraping something in or it's spotify
or it's amazon and so they made some adjustments
to their numbers okay to where you can go okay
these we are going to say are your actual unique
downloads and this down here is if you wanted
to see the bot total yeah but consistently rss
.com has showed more downloads okay op3 okay
but for some reason on the most recent show It's
flipped. So when I go to rss .com, then it's
not a major flip, but I've never seen it be this
way ever. Shoot the Breeze, the most recent show,
rss .com says we've got 13 unique downloads.
Okay. Like, okay, that's consistent. It's only
been two weeks. No big deal. Right. We'll see
if we get our little bump that we typically do
that ramps it up a little bit. Yeah. But then
I go to op3 .com. And they're like, oh, you've
got 17. And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait, wait. You get the same thing that rss .com
gets. And you've always said, no, rss .com is
probably inflating your numbers a little bit
based off of what we're seeing because they both
are supposed to be getting the same downloads.
So numbers should be identical. They never have
been. But now it's flipped the other way. And
I'm like, so why does OP3, say that we have more
downloads than rss .com uh what yeah and i'm
like it's minor it's no big deal it's only off
by four but op3 has always been fewer so like
you go back just to give it a couple of examples
so we don't drag the show out too long that's
great um go back to the previous show they're
relatively close 33 it's the magic number rss
.com has 52 And OP3 has 51. That's pretty, that's
kind of what I would expect. And you go back
to the show before that. Back in my days, got
a whopping 10 downloads from rss .com. Whopping.
I know, man. Good thing we're not trying to do
this for money. Goodness. And then, well, actually,
that's intriguing. I go back to OP3 and they
show 11. So one more, but okay. No big deal.
And you go, let's go back a couple more. RSS
.com for non -alcoholic analog versus digital.
I'm trying to remember what... RSS .com for non
-alcoholic versus digital. What was non -alcoholic
versus... Oh! You got... You ended up with a
non -alcoholic beer. Yeah, that happened. Yeah,
it did. And then the previous one before that,
and this is where I expected us to get a cease
and desist, but we didn't. Because it was our
30th episode, I did the 30 for 30. And at that
point in time, we talked about mobile device
management as well. That one had 37. So I go
to OP3. Back in my days, shows 11, so it's a
couple bit more. And analog versus digital. Is
that right? Well, that's intriguing. I don't
know how I missed that. The 30 for 30, rss .com
says 37. Oh, no, there it is. It's 41. 41. So
I guess I need to go back and look at some of
my numbers. I'm talking myself out of my own
argument as we go here. That's weird. But it's
weird to see these discrepancies. Right. Because
every download that rss .com sees, OP3 should
see. And for the most part, OP3 has always been
a little bit less. And so you're kind of getting
into... okay, how are you guys actually calculating
your numbers? And maybe that's the biggest thing
here. But I love OP3. They give you a little
bit more detail. You can look at some of your
historical a little bit more. You can actually
download it, which is great, so you can maintain
your historical numbers if you want to see it.
So all that to say, there's some shenanigans
going on in the downloads. I don't know what
that means. I don't know who's doing what or
where. But for me, it comes back to, if you remember,
the Apple apocalypse when they changed the downloads.
Yeah, that was really weird. And everybody got
freaked out. And everybody kind of got to see
a little bit behind the curtain. Behind the curtain.
Of like, oh. And behind the curtain is messy.
Yes, it is. Yeah. Yes, it is. And so a lot of
people lost a lot of money because of that move.
Did not like that. But at least. I understand
why Apple did what they did. But yeah, that changed
a whole lot. And so as I continue to look at
this, I'm kind of going, someone's fudging numbers
somewhere. And it's not making me money. No.
So I don't know what they're doing. Holy cow.
Yeah. We're not doing this for that. No, this
is not an exit strategy. This is just for fun.
Chance to hang out, excuse to drink beer. That's
right. And I will always take both of those.
Absolutely. Absolutely. So, well. I may have
gone off the rails on that one and kind of talked
myself out of my own argument. I mean, I understand,
though, that there's a lot of there's a lot of
the discrepancy is there. It's trying to figure
out why it's moving in one direction or another
is kind of a different thing. But that makes
sense. Yeah. Now, let the public shaming begin.
Yes. Jason, I don't know what the deal is. Oh,
here we go, folks. We got we got no messages
from you for like no boosts. Two episodes here?
At least. Maybe three. I guess we can't call
it the Jason Court segment anymore. Jason Court
segment is officially retired. It's open for
somebody else who wants to swoop in and start
making donations. Anybody who wants to just,
you know, give us some information about the
world and how they see it. If you're not using
a podcasting 2 .0 compliant app, you need to
be there. Yeah, why not? New podcast apps. That's
new, not nude. Oh, please don't. Well, I heard
that in my ear and I'm like, I may have slurred
that a little bit. Okay. So new any W podcast
apps .com. Go get one. Lots of great options
for multiple platforms. Get plugged in. Then
you get more information about the show, like
whatever show you're listening. Yes. And eventually
before the year's out, we're going to go live.
It's going to be great. And you're going to need
a 2 .0 app. to be a part of that. That's true.
You're going to get a notification that says
we're live. Come listen. You tap the button.
It brings you right into the live stream. Don't
worry. We'll let you know from our social media.
Oh, he just threw his own self under the bus.
Go follow us on our social medias. Yes. To, you
know, we're going to have to ramp that up to
make the live pay off. I mean, sure. So, so for
speaking of live, Michelle is potentially, and
I think she's confirmed it, end of week nine,
beginning of week 10, she's going to be on a
mission trip to Africa. To Mexico? To Mexico.
No, she's going to Africa. I'm blanking on which
country. I can get back to you on that. But I
want to try to use that as my window to do some
experimentation with life. But I'm going to link
it into our feed. So those of you that are out
there that don't have the app, get in on it because
you may get some interesting activity as I'm
trying to figure this out. Interesting activity
is a great way to put that. And hopefully you
don't hear any choice words where I don't think
it's working and it's working. Yeah, that would
be funny. But, I mean, also very real. Yes. But
I do want to try to leverage that. So there's
probably a couple of days there that I might
actually take off so I can focus on that because
Garrett will be working. I'll be dropping off
Tori at Flags. And then it'll just be me and
the cats. So it's a great time to get in there,
start experimenting with live. Try to figure
it out. And I got a guy that's a resource because
he always is complaining that people don't come
to him. And he would love for them to because
he's experienced it. He's seen it. Just come
to me and I'll help you out. So I remember that
when I get stuck, I'll be reaching out to him.
I like it. All right. So there we go, folks.
Very excited about what's coming and also excited
to go to sleep now. Just me? Okay. You need one
more bottle. One more bottle. It'll help you
drift off. I mean, the place is just around the
corner. Yes, it is. And they close in about 30
minutes. All right, we got to go. See you, folks.
See you. Bye. Bye. And we will much about that
be committed. So there's no real conflict. Michael
Drew Nisky. Drew Neat. People don't want to have
their social security overall. The Republican
savior. Mark Rubio's big night in evolution and
Galileo. I mean, this whole thing of Galileo.
America's changed, uh, changed. Unless, uh, I
.T. and Skillet's President Putin doing something
similar back in... It won't change this fundamental
fact about the GOP. Just how absurd these attacks
is. Nearly six months after the dangerous traffic
jam, the Thai military says, my friend for many
years, there's nothing there.