WEBVTT 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:34.820 Hey, Chris, how you doing? Good. How you doing, 00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:40.079 John? I'm doing great. We are trying the remote 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:44.479 show. Yes, we are. So this could get dicey. Yes. 00:00:45.640 --> 00:00:48.500 You know, warning everybody, if this is a short 00:00:48.500 --> 00:00:50.420 show, you know what happened. Yeah, blame it 00:00:50.420 --> 00:00:54.039 on the T -Mobile. Blame it on the T. Chris is 00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:59.880 in South Central Texas. No, I'm actually in Toccoa, 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:02.640 Georgia. Oh, you're in Georgia. Georgia. Yeah. 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:07.500 Okay. Sorry. That's my bad. I don't think I'd 00:01:07.500 --> 00:01:09.299 put that together. I was like, that doesn't look 00:01:09.299 --> 00:01:13.400 like a room in the camp that I know. This is 00:01:13.400 --> 00:01:17.079 a very different thing that you're doing now 00:01:17.079 --> 00:01:29.349 as a camp. Yeah. Seems like. I believe. Hey, 00:01:29.349 --> 00:01:30.790 that happened. You couldn't see my face, could 00:01:30.790 --> 00:01:32.750 you? I just saw you turn around. It was like 00:01:32.750 --> 00:01:35.730 stuck with you, like pointing your finger. Okay. 00:01:36.209 --> 00:01:39.590 My son decided to come in while we were recording 00:01:39.590 --> 00:01:42.170 and leave the door open so I could hear everyone 00:01:42.170 --> 00:01:46.209 in the house talking to each other. So that's 00:01:46.209 --> 00:01:51.109 fun. We'll cut it out in post. We're not, you 00:01:51.109 --> 00:01:53.290 know, it's just life. Yeah. Just leave it in. 00:01:53.849 --> 00:01:56.730 So you're in Georgia. I'm in Georgia. All the 00:01:56.730 --> 00:02:03.319 way in Georgia. Yes, we are two hours northeast 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:10.139 of Atlanta. Okay. Earlier today, we were in Athens, 00:02:10.259 --> 00:02:14.300 Georgia, which is about an hour and 20 minutes 00:02:14.300 --> 00:02:16.479 away. That's where the regional office is out 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:22.139 here. Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of funny that we, 00:02:22.219 --> 00:02:24.360 I mean, Athens, Georgia being close to the regional 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:27.389 office. Yep. Athens, Texas being close to the 00:02:27.389 --> 00:02:31.710 regional offices. Tyler is kind of, that's funny. 00:02:31.849 --> 00:02:34.750 Anyway. Maybe it's not funny. Maybe that's just 00:02:34.750 --> 00:02:37.789 funny to me. Yeah, the office here is. Probably 00:02:37.789 --> 00:02:40.629 about the same distance. Pretty close, yeah. 00:02:40.969 --> 00:02:43.789 Yeah, the office here is almost a stone's throw 00:02:43.789 --> 00:02:48.729 away from the university. Wow. Yep. That's why 00:02:48.729 --> 00:02:52.189 they chose it. I mean, yeah, they got to get 00:02:52.189 --> 00:02:54.569 their people somewhere. Yep. From somewhere. 00:03:00.200 --> 00:03:03.800 Hey, this is a funny question for today. What 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:08.300 are you drinking? Well, since this is the near 00:03:08.300 --> 00:03:13.280 beer or maybe the non -alcoholic edition, I am 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:16.840 drinking my favorite coffee in the world, Dr. 00:03:16.939 --> 00:03:22.639 Pepper. That is admirable right there. Favorite 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:27.280 coffee, Dr. Pepper. Yep. I have switched. My 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:29.900 favorite coffee now has coffee in it, but it's 00:03:29.900 --> 00:03:34.080 still mostly chocolate milk. So I don't feel 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:37.599 bad about that. Um, but I'm right there with 00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:40.020 you. It doesn't taste like Dr. Pepper. Why are 00:03:40.020 --> 00:03:43.639 we trying to drink something else here? Um, but 00:03:43.639 --> 00:03:50.139 I grew up, uh, drinking Coke cause my, um, my 00:03:50.139 --> 00:03:53.740 mom's dad, um, in Nacogdoches, Texas worked for 00:03:53.740 --> 00:03:56.969 the. At least for a while, worked for the Coke 00:03:56.969 --> 00:04:00.050 bottling plant in Nacogdoches. But my dad's, 00:04:00.050 --> 00:04:06.810 my dad's dad's bakery was right next to the Dr. 00:04:06.969 --> 00:04:10.710 Pepper distribution office or whatever in Mount 00:04:10.710 --> 00:04:15.169 Pleasant. So they had Dr. Pepper and mom had 00:04:15.169 --> 00:04:20.009 Coke. And when mom and dad got married, guess 00:04:20.009 --> 00:04:24.759 who won? Coca -Cola. I grew up drinking Coke 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:30.000 more than Dr. Pepper, but I've since evened it 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:33.920 out pretty good. Today, it's Coke. I do have 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:36.759 this, though, for the show. You can actually 00:04:36.759 --> 00:04:42.939 pop the top. Oh, that was a good one. Mine is 00:04:42.939 --> 00:04:47.240 already iced. Pre -opened. There you go. Cheers. 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:57.379 It's the good stuff. Dang, that's good. Sugary. 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:04.660 23 flavors. No blurb. No blurb. If you don't 00:05:04.660 --> 00:05:07.540 know about it, I'm sorry. I do have a bonus, 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:10.819 though. What is that? Swiss cake. Is that a little 00:05:10.819 --> 00:05:12.800 Debbie? Swiss cake roll. Oh, Swiss cake roll. 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:16.779 That's right. Well done. Something you probably 00:05:16.779 --> 00:05:20.480 shouldn't eat if you're drinking a beer. Well, 00:05:20.500 --> 00:05:23.459 yeah. Yeah, because chocolate and beer sometimes. 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:28.480 It's weird, man. No, but Dr. Pepper and chocolate 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:31.699 is just fine. Yes. Diabetes, here we come. Yes. 00:05:32.420 --> 00:05:35.560 It is a little bit funny that you're in Georgia 00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:38.120 drinking Dr. Pepper and I'm in Texas drinking 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:42.339 Coke. Yeah, Dr. Pepper is not as popular. No, 00:05:43.100 --> 00:05:47.319 Coke is from Georgia and Dr. Pepper is from Texas. 00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:51.139 For those of you that care, and most of you don't, 00:05:51.139 --> 00:05:53.500 I guess. But, hey, this is us talking more about 00:05:53.500 --> 00:05:58.100 the beverages. It is. We are expanding the beverage 00:05:58.100 --> 00:06:02.480 portion of the show. Perfect. Yeah. That's absolutely 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:05.980 right. Did you want to go and do the boost, or 00:06:05.980 --> 00:06:08.720 did you want to wait for that? We'll catch it 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:11.740 at the end. That way we... Okay. We got to make 00:06:11.740 --> 00:06:13.759 sure that we do it. I have them pulled up. I 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:17.259 have both. Okay. So, yeah, we'll keep the same 00:06:17.259 --> 00:06:23.620 flow of the show. Okay. Today you had an interesting 00:06:23.620 --> 00:06:27.180 idea, I thought. We're going to talk about digital 00:06:27.180 --> 00:06:30.980 mixers. Yes. Was there something that brought 00:06:30.980 --> 00:06:33.980 this up to you or you just wanted to talk about? 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:35.939 Well, it's one of those kind of going, you know, 00:06:35.959 --> 00:06:37.759 it's getting kind of close to the show. We haven't 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:41.720 really locked down an idea. So what could we 00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:45.360 talk about? And it just came to mind. We haven't 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:49.000 done an AV show in a while. So let's mix it up. 00:06:49.300 --> 00:06:53.300 And that is an easy one to discuss. I thought 00:06:53.300 --> 00:06:55.139 maybe we could talk about some of the reasons 00:06:55.139 --> 00:07:00.180 why it went away from the analog boards and talk 00:07:00.180 --> 00:07:02.899 about what some of the advantages are of a digital 00:07:02.899 --> 00:07:09.980 board. Yeah. No, that's fantastic. I feel like 00:07:09.980 --> 00:07:14.019 I'm one of the lucky ones, and I feel like I 00:07:14.019 --> 00:07:18.740 can say that because I value. um the history 00:07:18.740 --> 00:07:23.100 of all of this so much that um that i i actually 00:07:23.100 --> 00:07:33.300 didn't start mixing until early 2000s um i didn't 00:07:33.300 --> 00:07:36.220 start really in honest or in honest in earnest 00:07:36.220 --> 00:07:40.740 learning too much about it until probably 2010 00:07:40.740 --> 00:07:47.120 um but you know growing up as a musician And 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:52.480 then, um, being in bands and not just concert 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:54.759 band, which is what I started in, but like actual, 00:07:54.920 --> 00:08:02.060 um, you know, them new fangled musics, um, started 00:08:02.060 --> 00:08:05.420 being around, um, sound systems and microphones 00:08:05.420 --> 00:08:08.240 and XLRs and quarter inches and didn't know much 00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:10.899 about it and rolled my fair share of badly rolled, 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:18.319 uh, cables. Um, but I really valued music, and 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:22.939 I valued listening to music, and I valued other 00:08:22.939 --> 00:08:26.300 people being able to listen to music. And that's 00:08:26.300 --> 00:08:36.820 really where these PAs come in, right? Every 00:08:36.820 --> 00:08:45.669 sound amplification solution. is just about being 00:08:45.669 --> 00:08:52.929 able to hear the music or the message or whatever 00:08:52.929 --> 00:08:55.350 it is that's trying to be conveyed. And you want 00:08:55.350 --> 00:08:58.750 it to be as, the way that I was taught, you want 00:08:58.750 --> 00:09:02.090 it to be as true to the source as possible. That's 00:09:02.090 --> 00:09:06.029 changed a little bit over time. But the initial 00:09:06.029 --> 00:09:14.259 idea was to have the, whatever instrument it 00:09:14.259 --> 00:09:18.279 is, whether it's your voice or, you know, an 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:21.220 actual or not an actual because your voice is 00:09:21.220 --> 00:09:25.879 an instrument. But whatever source you had that 00:09:25.879 --> 00:09:27.820 you needed to amplify, you wanted it to sound 00:09:27.820 --> 00:09:30.019 like that whenever it came across. And so there's 00:09:30.019 --> 00:09:33.159 a bunch of different ways to do that. And you 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:36.779 start to, you know, get these really ingenious 00:09:36.779 --> 00:09:42.350 people who can turn a sound wave. which is not 00:09:42.350 --> 00:09:45.070 just a pressure wave, even though that's how 00:09:45.070 --> 00:09:51.870 our ears receive it. It's also a kinetic movement 00:09:51.870 --> 00:09:58.769 of particles. Pretty crazy when you actually 00:09:58.769 --> 00:10:01.330 start studying this stuff. But you got these 00:10:01.330 --> 00:10:03.710 guys who could then figure out how to turn that 00:10:03.710 --> 00:10:07.070 into an electrical signal. that could be passed 00:10:07.070 --> 00:10:10.370 through cables and then could be, um, run into 00:10:10.370 --> 00:10:17.549 a, um, an amplifier and then could be then put 00:10:17.549 --> 00:10:23.210 out using transducers to, um, um, a bigger audience 00:10:23.210 --> 00:10:27.269 than what you could hear, um, initially at least. 00:10:27.289 --> 00:10:31.669 And, um, and all kinds of stuff like it, I have 00:10:31.669 --> 00:10:34.370 to start there in my mind because I have to remember 00:10:34.370 --> 00:10:37.509 that. A lot of the technologies that are new 00:10:37.509 --> 00:10:42.710 now, a lot of the stuff that we talk about, that 00:10:42.710 --> 00:10:46.490 we'll talk about, I think, in this show, I mean, 00:10:46.490 --> 00:10:49.549 it seems like such a crazy jump when we went 00:10:49.549 --> 00:10:53.009 from analog to digital boards. But, I mean, we 00:10:53.009 --> 00:10:57.029 can't forget that it was a big jump before. At 00:10:57.029 --> 00:10:59.409 the very beginning, it was a big jump that we 00:10:59.409 --> 00:11:02.909 had this. And we talk about the difference between 00:11:02.909 --> 00:11:05.490 analog and digital, and there's an element of 00:11:05.490 --> 00:11:08.549 like, yes, electricity passing through a cable. 00:11:08.629 --> 00:11:13.509 There's analog involved in that, but it's not 00:11:13.509 --> 00:11:17.490 quite as analog as your voice actually making 00:11:17.490 --> 00:11:26.450 a noise, like wind blowing across the reeds of 00:11:26.450 --> 00:11:32.320 our vocal cords. Kind of crazy how all that works. 00:11:32.460 --> 00:11:34.200 And if you ever get a chance to look at that, 00:11:34.299 --> 00:11:38.279 like that's a different level of. You know. Yeah. 00:11:39.340 --> 00:11:49.679 Nerd hood. Yeah. But all that to say. You know, 00:11:49.700 --> 00:11:56.519 somewhere in the. I tried to look this up and 00:11:56.519 --> 00:12:02.860 I don't I don't feel like I got a good. even 00:12:02.860 --> 00:12:07.860 answer uh to this but it was it was before it 00:12:07.860 --> 00:12:14.139 had to be before 2004 i think like um the first 00:12:14.139 --> 00:12:21.019 one had to come out you were looking for like 00:12:21.019 --> 00:12:25.179 the first digital board yeah oh man this is 1987 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:31.919 So I don't know, but that'd be a fascinating, 00:12:32.059 --> 00:12:36.700 some historian out there, I'd love to sit down 00:12:36.700 --> 00:12:38.220 with somebody who knows actually the history 00:12:38.220 --> 00:12:40.059 of all this and when things actually started 00:12:40.059 --> 00:12:43.820 and when they did this and that. But basically 00:12:43.820 --> 00:12:49.980 what you started with in analog boards were a 00:12:49.980 --> 00:12:56.330 whole bunch of channels. So you had, you had, 00:12:56.350 --> 00:12:59.789 you didn't just want to be able to have one microphone 00:12:59.789 --> 00:13:04.730 and, and have that thing be amplified, but you 00:13:04.730 --> 00:13:08.610 wanted to take all of these inputs and mix them 00:13:08.610 --> 00:13:10.730 together. That's how I get the mixing board. 00:13:10.809 --> 00:13:13.009 You wanted to be able to mix those inputs together 00:13:13.009 --> 00:13:20.789 and then output a mix of these inputs. Yep. And 00:13:20.789 --> 00:13:23.690 so the, you know, basic form of that would have, 00:13:24.889 --> 00:13:28.309 Where we started, you would have the microphone 00:13:28.309 --> 00:13:33.570 input, and then you would have, again, an attenuation 00:13:33.570 --> 00:13:38.549 of sorts. You may have some control over the 00:13:38.549 --> 00:13:42.049 tone of it in one way or another, but then pretty 00:13:42.049 --> 00:13:45.690 quickly you're moving straight out to the faders, 00:13:45.730 --> 00:13:49.110 which were the actual control against controlling 00:13:49.110 --> 00:13:54.879 how... how loud one source was compared to another 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:58.419 um inside of it and then that that mix from the 00:13:58.419 --> 00:14:01.820 faders would then be sent to the main out and 00:14:01.820 --> 00:14:04.340 and you would have that going to the speakers 00:14:04.340 --> 00:14:08.480 and or amplifiers and speakers and all of that 00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:11.620 so a whole bunch of different versions of that 00:14:11.620 --> 00:14:14.960 concept all came out a bunch of people got really 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:19.600 rich yeah making different uh um forms of that 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:23.539 Um, and they got more complicated, you know, 00:14:23.559 --> 00:14:26.379 you got to, you were able to not only just do, 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:37.100 um, like the gain and the, um, um, basic, uh, 00:14:37.220 --> 00:14:40.259 tone. You could also, like you would have, you 00:14:40.259 --> 00:14:44.039 know, a three band EQ and you could do, um, the. 00:14:45.860 --> 00:14:48.840 treble the mids and the lows on that and then 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:51.159 they came out with a sweepable mid and then they 00:14:51.159 --> 00:14:53.019 came out with oh well you don't just want to 00:14:53.019 --> 00:14:55.620 output to the mains you also want to stereo bus 00:14:55.620 --> 00:14:58.659 these and you want to pull these across this 00:14:58.659 --> 00:15:00.580 and you want to be able to pan and you want to 00:15:00.580 --> 00:15:03.840 be able to mute and you want to be able to insert 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:08.940 and you'd have the sends and returns then going 00:15:08.940 --> 00:15:14.190 into it to be able to send a a signal into an 00:15:14.190 --> 00:15:16.529 effects processor of some kind, whether it was 00:15:16.529 --> 00:15:19.009 an actual, like what we think of as an effects 00:15:19.009 --> 00:15:21.549 processor processor or the analog version of 00:15:21.549 --> 00:15:24.389 that, that came before, which was like a tape 00:15:24.389 --> 00:15:29.909 deck or a, um, a spring, like actual spring. 00:15:30.009 --> 00:15:32.590 Like there's a box, there's a spring that you're 00:15:32.590 --> 00:15:36.820 running the signal through. to make like this 00:15:36.820 --> 00:15:39.600 warbly sound. Like these things were massive 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:41.659 and heavy and that's why not a lot of people 00:15:41.659 --> 00:15:44.500 had them. But then quickly they started to try 00:15:44.500 --> 00:15:46.899 to figure out a way to make this reproducible. 00:15:47.700 --> 00:15:51.700 Um, because even, you know, your tape deck would, 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:56.179 the tape that you would use would then affect 00:15:56.179 --> 00:15:58.580 the sound on how, how many times it had been 00:15:58.580 --> 00:16:02.100 used or how worn it was. then people started 00:16:02.100 --> 00:16:04.340 to really like a certain tone but then that tone 00:16:04.340 --> 00:16:06.679 would change in these mixing recordings and and 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:09.779 so really it came down to we want to be able 00:16:09.779 --> 00:16:13.840 to reproduce it exactly the way that we can imagine 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:16.799 it in our heads and so that's when you started 00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:21.799 to get digital effects and digital effects kind 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:24.879 of gives rise to this idea that that i need to 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:30.100 be able to manipulate the sound Um, that's coming 00:16:30.100 --> 00:16:34.539 in, but in a reproducible way in a, uh, not, 00:16:34.659 --> 00:16:39.179 not just reproducible in, um, what's the word 00:16:39.179 --> 00:16:42.179 I'm looking for? Uh, it, it, you would, you would, 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:48.500 uh, affect the sound in a, um, controlled. Reproducible 00:16:48.500 --> 00:16:51.220 way is what I would think of. Yeah. I mean, it's 00:16:51.220 --> 00:16:53.500 a, it's, you know, you, you knew what you were 00:16:53.500 --> 00:16:57.169 getting every single time. And you knew if you 00:16:57.169 --> 00:16:58.950 tweaked this, then it would sound a little more 00:16:58.950 --> 00:17:01.629 like this. And so everybody talks about wanting 00:17:01.629 --> 00:17:04.170 to go analog. This is what always cracks me up 00:17:04.170 --> 00:17:08.069 about, especially electric guitarists now, because 00:17:08.069 --> 00:17:15.049 they're still the ones, more than any other instrumentalist 00:17:15.049 --> 00:17:18.309 that I know of at least, that are holding on 00:17:18.309 --> 00:17:21.450 to their amps and saying that it sounds better 00:17:21.450 --> 00:17:27.559 coming from an amp. And I always just kind of 00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:29.440 laugh because half of them are using digital, 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:35.400 um, or I don't know how to say it. Um, they're 00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:37.380 not using tube amps. They're using solid state, 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:42.019 um, solid state amps, which are reproducing a 00:17:42.019 --> 00:17:46.980 sound based on a digital algorithm, not based 00:17:46.980 --> 00:17:51.480 on an analog. So there's, there's kind of a funniness 00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:53.599 about it, but guys that like will hold to their 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:57.390 tube amps, um, And say that there's nothing better 00:17:57.390 --> 00:17:59.809 than that. I get it. I hear what you're saying 00:17:59.809 --> 00:18:06.490 until something changes with the tube amp. And 00:18:06.490 --> 00:18:08.769 you're like, oh, that's not exactly the sound 00:18:08.769 --> 00:18:12.730 that I had before. It's worn out. Oh, I need 00:18:12.730 --> 00:18:17.509 a different power tube. I need a different... 00:18:18.220 --> 00:18:20.599 you know, whatever tube I need to replace this 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:22.859 or that or whatever. And it's like, okay, so 00:18:22.859 --> 00:18:25.339 now you're starting to see like over time, these 00:18:25.339 --> 00:18:28.759 things change. If it's analog, it is going to 00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:31.380 change. Your guitar strings are going to need 00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:39.440 to be changed. Um, and I get it like that interaction 00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:43.240 with something that is analog. It feels really 00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:48.500 good. It feels more manipulatable. And I love 00:18:48.500 --> 00:18:52.000 the idea of a musician listening so intently 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:55.220 that they can hear the difference in the tone 00:18:55.220 --> 00:18:58.220 inside of that. And those are exactly the musicians 00:18:58.220 --> 00:19:00.640 that we need to get on board with a lot of digital 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:08.119 stuff now to be able to express the difference 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:11.150 that they hear. Like if you're listening that 00:19:11.150 --> 00:19:14.450 closely, I need your ear to tell everybody else 00:19:14.450 --> 00:19:18.809 what sounds different. Because we'll be able 00:19:18.809 --> 00:19:22.470 to. And if we don't, if we can't like figure 00:19:22.470 --> 00:19:25.069 out how to reproduce all this stuff digitally, 00:19:25.150 --> 00:19:27.329 then I mean, there's going to be a moment where 00:19:27.329 --> 00:19:30.730 we lose some of it because of that. But that's 00:19:30.730 --> 00:19:32.589 just kind of the nature of how all this goes. 00:19:33.089 --> 00:19:36.910 We don't have, most guys don't have an actual 00:19:36.910 --> 00:19:42.700 tape reverb. uh tape delay sorry um on their 00:19:42.700 --> 00:19:46.859 uh board like they don't actually have a spring 00:19:46.859 --> 00:19:49.920 reverb on their board they have a digital representation 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:52.059 of that yeah and they love it they think it's 00:19:52.059 --> 00:19:55.799 amazing um it's really funny to talk about these 00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:58.720 things back to back and not feel the weirdness 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:02.619 of it but all this manipulation then um gives 00:20:02.619 --> 00:20:09.380 rise to the idea that like uh What if we, what 00:20:09.380 --> 00:20:13.480 if we put all these tools into the mixer? Like 00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:17.000 what if we, what if I was able to manipulate 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:21.259 more in the mixer than before? And you got the 00:20:21.259 --> 00:20:25.059 guy who, you know, in recording studios, it's 00:20:25.059 --> 00:20:29.759 called the producer. Um, it's funny to not, not, 00:20:29.779 --> 00:20:32.980 you don't hear that in the live space. They're 00:20:32.980 --> 00:20:34.559 not, they're not called the, they're not called 00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:37.990 producers generally. They're called audio techs 00:20:37.990 --> 00:20:42.890 or audio engineers or something like that. Or 00:20:42.890 --> 00:20:48.950 just the sound guy. That's my favorite. But you 00:20:48.950 --> 00:20:51.869 got this guy who's actually taking all of the 00:20:51.869 --> 00:20:54.690 work that other people are doing and trying to 00:20:54.690 --> 00:21:00.730 create something out of it. You know, there's 00:21:00.730 --> 00:21:04.279 the. I think it was a lot of different people 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:06.140 who've said it, but the one that's coming to 00:21:06.140 --> 00:21:09.200 my head is popping into my head is the, there 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:11.319 was a Steve jobs movie with Michael Fassbender. 00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:14.960 And I know that this is just eating you up, Chris, 00:21:15.019 --> 00:21:16.420 but it doesn't have anything really to do with 00:21:16.420 --> 00:21:19.700 Steve jobs. Okay. Other than it fits with his 00:21:19.700 --> 00:21:24.180 just really arrogant personality. Um, but he's 00:21:24.180 --> 00:21:28.720 talking to Wozniak, um, in, uh, before one of 00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:32.779 the Apple events. This is a movie, so whatever. 00:21:32.980 --> 00:21:34.880 I don't know if it actually happened or not or 00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:38.539 happened like this, but Jobs is talking to Wozniak 00:21:38.539 --> 00:21:46.640 about what he does, what his job is, because 00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:50.160 Wozniak's a genius. And Steve doesn't actually 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:58.480 do any of the coding. Yeah, he's not in the hardware. 00:21:59.349 --> 00:22:02.529 Yeah, he's not doing any of the, either the coding 00:22:02.529 --> 00:22:10.210 or the, you know, soldering. Yep. Figuring out 00:22:10.210 --> 00:22:13.549 how to make this, you know, microchip, whatever. 00:22:15.630 --> 00:22:18.230 So he's asking, Wozniak is actually asking Jobs 00:22:18.230 --> 00:22:20.710 what he actually does. And they happen to be 00:22:20.710 --> 00:22:24.829 in the orchestra pit of this place where they're 00:22:24.829 --> 00:22:30.130 going to have this release. jobs is like you 00:22:30.130 --> 00:22:34.390 sit here and you're you're like really good you're 00:22:34.390 --> 00:22:38.170 you're the best in your row it's fantastic you 00:22:38.170 --> 00:22:42.289 you are so good at what you do but i stand here 00:22:42.289 --> 00:22:46.329 and he stood in the conductor spot and i play 00:22:46.329 --> 00:22:53.190 all of it and there's part of me that um just 00:22:53.190 --> 00:22:57.529 is like are you yep Okay. I know you really, 00:22:57.630 --> 00:23:01.009 that's a, that's a thing. But there is some arrogance 00:23:01.009 --> 00:23:06.210 to being the sound guy sometimes. Yeah. And you 00:23:06.210 --> 00:23:08.670 look at where the digital mixers are now and 00:23:08.670 --> 00:23:12.289 it's like, it's legit. I don't think I ever felt 00:23:12.289 --> 00:23:15.430 it as a sound guy, but I've watched some of these 00:23:15.430 --> 00:23:18.349 guys who actually know what they're doing, mixing 00:23:18.349 --> 00:23:22.390 things. And I'm like, they're no longer constrained 00:23:22.390 --> 00:23:29.220 by how it sounds. at the source that's the best 00:23:29.220 --> 00:23:33.380 way i can describe it they are making music out 00:23:33.380 --> 00:23:37.299 of what is being given to them that is not necessarily 00:23:37.299 --> 00:23:43.200 dependent on what they're being given now they're 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:44.660 making it sound the way they want it to sound 00:23:44.660 --> 00:23:49.000 and and that's what everybody wants to hear and 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:54.549 that's i mean it's crazy um It seems like we 00:23:54.549 --> 00:23:56.690 should be getting to the place where you don't 00:23:56.690 --> 00:23:59.609 go to a this or that concert anymore. You go 00:23:59.609 --> 00:24:05.809 to this producer's concert. You go to this mixer's 00:24:05.809 --> 00:24:11.170 concert. And maybe that's all that DJs are, are 00:24:11.170 --> 00:24:15.950 just guys that got sick of having to try to make 00:24:15.950 --> 00:24:18.730 it sound good out of other people's. stuff and 00:24:18.730 --> 00:24:23.470 they like the which i don't i don't but that's 00:24:23.470 --> 00:24:26.869 fine like it's not a whatever so i look at these 00:24:26.869 --> 00:24:28.930 digital mixing consoles and you no longer just 00:24:28.930 --> 00:24:37.089 have um a gain um a three band eq five band eq 00:24:37.089 --> 00:24:39.230 if you get crazy and you know whatever on the 00:24:39.230 --> 00:24:41.130 analog boards i remember seeing some of them 00:24:41.130 --> 00:24:47.579 that were just massive lines of um knobs that 00:24:47.579 --> 00:24:51.619 all had to do with their submixes and their EQ 00:24:51.619 --> 00:24:57.000 and the send and return and all of that. It all 00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:00.880 lined up. And what they decided to do with digital 00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:03.779 boards is they decided, hey, if we can take the 00:25:03.779 --> 00:25:07.319 same footprint of an analog board and instead 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:10.400 of requiring all of that space for this line, 00:25:10.579 --> 00:25:14.599 if we put all that on a screen, Or maybe in one 00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:18.460 place that could be controllable. What we really 00:25:18.460 --> 00:25:21.339 need to do, though, is we need all of that processing 00:25:21.339 --> 00:25:30.680 to happen on a chip. And that chip is really 00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:33.640 going to be where the power of this board comes 00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:38.460 in, because then we can give the mixer the mix. 00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:44.640 I almost said mixologist. It fits the show. It 00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:47.880 fits the show. So the mixologist can look at 00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:51.000 more information at any given time, like he was 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:55.400 on one of the big boards, the 128 channel monsters 00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:57.619 that you got to walk from one end to the other. 00:25:57.779 --> 00:26:02.619 Yeah. And they can see all of that in a 12 to 00:26:02.619 --> 00:26:26.480 24 fader sized. Console. Yep. I'll fill the air 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:30.279 time. You were talking before about the mixologist 00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:35.339 creating the sound that he wants. I would love 00:26:35.339 --> 00:26:39.400 to see the conversation between the edge. and 00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:43.299 the guy running audio at the show. Because I've 00:26:43.299 --> 00:26:46.420 seen what The Edge does with his own personal 00:26:46.420 --> 00:26:50.880 rig to create the sounds that he wants. And then 00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:54.299 to hear him talking to the audio engineer, whoever 00:26:54.299 --> 00:26:57.240 it is, and he's hearing it in the show, and I 00:26:57.240 --> 00:26:59.500 just imagine him having a talkback mic and go, 00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:05.380 stop changing my sound. Yeah, I think there has 00:27:05.380 --> 00:27:09.960 to be a real trust there. And a lot of these 00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:13.420 big bands that are really particular about the 00:27:13.420 --> 00:27:15.440 way that they sound, that really have a specific 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:21.700 ear to it, they don't trust just anybody to mix 00:27:21.700 --> 00:27:24.660 them because they're going to mess it up. And 00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:26.359 there's too many things that can be messed up 00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:29.420 inside of that now from these big boards that 00:27:29.420 --> 00:27:33.259 have all of this stuff. You can add all kinds 00:27:33.259 --> 00:27:37.400 of reverbs and all kinds of compression and all 00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:42.390 kinds of... delays and you know pitching and 00:27:42.390 --> 00:27:47.490 different uh tremolo i mean all of these digital 00:27:47.490 --> 00:27:52.589 um effects can then be brought in on the board 00:27:52.589 --> 00:27:57.670 side um and so there you know there's a respect 00:27:57.670 --> 00:28:02.049 for what the artist is what the musician the 00:28:02.049 --> 00:28:05.170 artist the whatever um that they're they're trying 00:28:05.170 --> 00:28:10.440 to do um from their end. And then there's the 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:12.740 respect that has to be given the opposite direction 00:28:12.740 --> 00:28:16.079 of the guy who has to hear all of the things 00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:19.640 and make them sound the way that is pleasing. 00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:22.440 Um, and they, they have to, they have to respect 00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:24.339 each other. They also have to be on the same 00:28:24.339 --> 00:28:27.519 page. Um, or somebody is probably going to be 00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:31.519 disappointed with that. Um, I've, I've been in 00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:34.220 both situations where I've seen a guy or I've, 00:28:34.220 --> 00:28:37.920 I've been the musician that, was being mixed 00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:40.240 by somebody who did not know as much as me. And 00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:43.660 I have been the musician who is being mixed by 00:28:43.660 --> 00:28:46.160 someone who knew a lot more than me. I've been 00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:48.940 the mixer who knew a lot more than the musicians. 00:28:49.299 --> 00:28:56.299 And I've been the mixer who was being, uh, schooled 00:28:56.299 --> 00:28:59.740 by the musicians. I will never forget. Um, those 00:28:59.740 --> 00:29:03.039 of you that know who Shane and Shane are, uh, 00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:07.670 they're Texas boys. And, um, Christian worship 00:29:07.670 --> 00:29:11.609 leaders and artists. And, um, uh, Shane Bernard 00:29:11.609 --> 00:29:14.970 is usually the one who's, um, singing the lead 00:29:14.970 --> 00:29:20.549 and playing the guitar and he'll, uh, he, you 00:29:20.549 --> 00:29:23.609 know, I think most people know his face better. 00:29:23.750 --> 00:29:26.210 Um, partially because Shane Everett also just 00:29:26.210 --> 00:29:29.150 kind of stands with his hat, like tucked around 00:29:29.150 --> 00:29:35.289 his eyes and he's singing like really high. But 00:29:35.289 --> 00:29:39.069 he's not playing an instrument. He's just hanging 00:29:39.069 --> 00:29:41.849 out until it's time for him to sing. And then 00:29:41.849 --> 00:29:45.549 he just destroys it. I mean, it's fantastic to 00:29:45.549 --> 00:29:48.049 listen to. But what I didn't know about him is 00:29:48.049 --> 00:29:52.009 he's got a fantastic ear. And when I was mixing 00:29:52.009 --> 00:29:55.990 Shane and Shane one time, Shane Everett walks 00:29:55.990 --> 00:30:03.940 out into the room while... everybody's playing 00:30:03.940 --> 00:30:06.019 like the band's playing shane bernard is singing 00:30:06.019 --> 00:30:09.859 and everything and he listens for a second then 00:30:09.859 --> 00:30:11.900 he turns around to me and say okay i need you 00:30:11.900 --> 00:30:17.099 to bump shane's voice at this frequency you know 00:30:17.099 --> 00:30:21.319 by six decibels or something like that i mean 00:30:21.319 --> 00:30:24.220 it wasn't insignificant like it was he was telling 00:30:24.220 --> 00:30:28.079 me what to do and i was like okay so i you know 00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:30.859 did the thing i was like oh gosh that sounds 00:30:30.859 --> 00:30:33.930 a lot better Um, and like he, he walked me through 00:30:33.930 --> 00:30:36.069 a few tweaks that he wanted and then he walked 00:30:36.069 --> 00:30:38.769 back and started singing his like himself. And 00:30:38.769 --> 00:30:42.049 I was like, that doesn't happen very often. Like 00:30:42.049 --> 00:30:45.569 I'm not, I'm not a rock star, um, sound engineer 00:30:45.569 --> 00:30:48.210 or anything like that, but where somebody just 00:30:48.210 --> 00:30:52.430 knows exactly where they need something to be. 00:30:53.170 --> 00:30:56.930 That's a, that's a pretty great ear. Um, and, 00:30:57.009 --> 00:30:59.490 and it, it reminds you, I think sometimes as 00:30:59.490 --> 00:31:05.920 a. sound engineer that like they there are other 00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:08.099 people that know what they're talking about um 00:31:08.099 --> 00:31:10.519 and they're professional musicians or they're 00:31:10.519 --> 00:31:13.160 professional mixers and we all need to approach 00:31:13.160 --> 00:31:17.839 all of this with some humility sure so um but 00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:21.579 all that to say um digital mixing console uh 00:31:21.579 --> 00:31:24.640 one of the things or some of the things that 00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:28.319 it brought in whenever they started doing digital 00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:31.740 mixing consoles started becoming popular. One 00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:36.339 of them was just the size of a rig. Could be 00:31:36.339 --> 00:31:39.640 a lot smaller. Absolutely. Like I talked about, 00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:42.339 because you have pages, you know, you press the 00:31:42.339 --> 00:31:44.980 button and all the, what everybody wants to see 00:31:44.980 --> 00:31:48.720 is you press the page button and all the faders 00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:53.640 slide. Yeah. Or whatever. Everybody loves that. 00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:58.750 It's magic. That was magic. I agree. It was fantastic 00:31:58.750 --> 00:32:02.349 when you had the motorized faders that would 00:32:02.349 --> 00:32:05.150 move to where they're supposed to be. That actually 00:32:05.150 --> 00:32:10.710 happened before what we now consider really digital 00:32:10.710 --> 00:32:14.809 mixers, really high -end analog mixers would 00:32:14.809 --> 00:32:17.410 have that ability because they would want presets 00:32:17.410 --> 00:32:20.970 for different things. You'd see it in studios 00:32:20.970 --> 00:32:22.910 where they would be able to press a button and 00:32:22.910 --> 00:32:27.359 the faders would move. within a given time in 00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:36.460 order to be able to switch a sound, like to be 00:32:36.460 --> 00:32:41.440 able to have a different sound for a different 00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:47.019 part of a song. And so that wasn't as new as 00:32:47.019 --> 00:32:49.359 everybody said, but like widespread, it wasn't 00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:54.359 on most boards. And then... What that allowed 00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:58.359 then is for us to put more inputs on a smaller 00:32:58.359 --> 00:33:05.700 footprint. Also, like I said, having the manipulatives 00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:09.480 of the signal chain. Wow, that was a thing. I 00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:14.220 did not rehearse that. But having all of the 00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:17.240 different knobs and all the different controls 00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:23.819 for each input being kind of shared. in one space 00:33:23.819 --> 00:33:28.500 made, um, uh, some of that real estate, got some 00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:31.920 of that back. Um, and, and then they really needed 00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:36.339 at that point to have a, um, uh, some sort of 00:33:36.339 --> 00:33:39.420 large interface that, uh, they could see everything 00:33:39.420 --> 00:33:42.539 that was being manipulated, um, in any given 00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:49.279 area. Um, and so, uh, and to really help you 00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:54.910 navigate what you were doing. Man, that was one 00:33:54.910 --> 00:33:56.809 of the hardest things for me to learn going from 00:33:56.809 --> 00:34:01.029 analog to digital. So many times on an analog 00:34:01.029 --> 00:34:07.049 board, you would know which channel you were 00:34:07.049 --> 00:34:08.690 working on and then you would reach up and grab 00:34:08.690 --> 00:34:13.150 that fader and you would listen and then move 00:34:13.150 --> 00:34:16.409 the knob in whichever direction you needed to. 00:34:16.570 --> 00:34:19.349 And then you could kind of feel on the board. 00:34:19.869 --> 00:34:22.530 where to be next without looking at the board. 00:34:23.389 --> 00:34:28.929 And with digital, it became very much a, okay, 00:34:29.130 --> 00:34:31.110 I need you to stop and I need you to look down 00:34:31.110 --> 00:34:33.949 and I need you to press the button for the channel 00:34:33.949 --> 00:34:37.449 that you want to manipulate and then start changing 00:34:37.449 --> 00:34:39.329 stuff. Because if you do that without looking, 00:34:39.449 --> 00:34:42.829 you're going to end up changing a lot of settings 00:34:42.829 --> 00:34:46.590 on a channel that you didn't mean to. And then 00:34:46.590 --> 00:34:49.519 you're going to have no idea. what you messed 00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:52.159 with you're gonna end up you got really it got 00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:53.880 really tricky there at the beginning you don't 00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:57.860 want to end up an invalid memory yeah i mean 00:34:57.860 --> 00:35:04.599 right oh my gosh it crowd yeah buddy yeah yeah 00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:10.780 talk about uh the big thing for me is going away 00:35:10.780 --> 00:35:15.239 from an analog snake to the digital snake and 00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:19.730 how that really changed things So, for those 00:35:19.730 --> 00:35:21.710 of you that weren't here for it, there used to 00:35:21.710 --> 00:35:27.409 be a day where you had to wind a stage snake. 00:35:31.829 --> 00:35:33.110 There's probably not a lot of people who are 00:35:33.110 --> 00:35:40.230 going to know what a pool vacuum hose feels like. 00:35:40.349 --> 00:35:45.329 But these massive... massive things of copper 00:35:45.329 --> 00:35:51.429 that would be you know half inch or bigger um 00:35:51.429 --> 00:35:56.789 in dynamic diameter and just a a lot of copper 00:35:56.789 --> 00:36:02.309 packed into a single run and on one end you know 00:36:02.309 --> 00:36:06.429 if it was attached you know you could you'd have 00:36:06.429 --> 00:36:09.769 a big box um that would have the inputs and outputs 00:36:09.769 --> 00:36:12.420 all on the same box and you would run that up 00:36:12.420 --> 00:36:14.039 to the stage and you would plug everything into 00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:15.679 that and then you'd have to run the other end 00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:19.059 usually underneath chairs because that's how 00:36:19.059 --> 00:36:21.719 we do things way to get something kicked and 00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:26.059 be in trouble um but like all the way to the 00:36:26.059 --> 00:36:28.619 mixer and the mixer has to be in a good spot 00:36:28.619 --> 00:36:30.780 in the room because you really don't want the 00:36:30.780 --> 00:36:37.489 mixer to have to stand in the room and then run 00:36:37.489 --> 00:36:39.429 over to try to change something and then come 00:36:39.429 --> 00:36:42.130 back he needs to be able to hear what he needs 00:36:42.130 --> 00:36:46.329 to change from his mixing position became such 00:36:46.329 --> 00:36:49.010 an important thing and so you have these big 00:36:49.010 --> 00:36:53.550 long snakes that would be huge and have to travel 00:36:53.550 --> 00:36:56.909 in their own trunk and then you got the big ones 00:36:56.909 --> 00:37:01.250 that had the like the pins on them that would 00:37:01.250 --> 00:37:03.809 give you an anxiety attack just trying to plug 00:37:03.809 --> 00:37:05.849 in because if you bend one of those pins you 00:37:05.849 --> 00:37:09.809 are in trouble yeah um it would like slide that 00:37:09.809 --> 00:37:12.230 sucker in and then spin the collar on it to make 00:37:12.230 --> 00:37:15.809 sure that it stayed put um and you know if you're 00:37:15.809 --> 00:37:18.190 really fancy that may be going into a split snake 00:37:18.190 --> 00:37:24.269 where you had the um the sins from the or the 00:37:25.210 --> 00:37:28.190 inputs from the stage going to that. And then 00:37:28.190 --> 00:37:30.610 it would break out and you would have one set 00:37:30.610 --> 00:37:32.690 going to the monitors and one set going to the 00:37:32.690 --> 00:37:36.550 front of house. And man, that, that was, it was 00:37:36.550 --> 00:37:40.769 such like, you had to be some kind of strong. 00:37:40.989 --> 00:37:43.469 Like, I'm not saying you gotta be most of us. 00:37:44.469 --> 00:37:46.789 I'm not going to say most of us. I don't, I don't 00:37:46.789 --> 00:37:49.570 know that. But there's quite a few of us in the 00:37:49.570 --> 00:37:53.039 sound mixing world that are not. slim trim and 00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:57.460 whatever but you still had to be able to lift 00:37:57.460 --> 00:38:00.059 some weight because that's all those cables were 00:38:00.059 --> 00:38:03.820 was weight yep um and i remember the first day 00:38:03.820 --> 00:38:07.500 that somebody handed me a network cable and said 00:38:07.500 --> 00:38:11.179 you know it was a big it was a big wad of network 00:38:11.179 --> 00:38:13.860 cable like that thing was it was a roll and it 00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:20.510 was you know 250 feet maybe And they were like, 00:38:20.570 --> 00:38:22.610 plug this in over there and plug the other end 00:38:22.610 --> 00:38:28.909 into this. And I was like, what? So there's a 00:38:28.909 --> 00:38:32.170 box on stage. There's a computer on stage I'm 00:38:32.170 --> 00:38:33.630 going to plug this into. And then I'm going to 00:38:33.630 --> 00:38:36.070 plug this into the back of the mixer. And that's 00:38:36.070 --> 00:38:38.070 the only cable I need. That's what you're telling 00:38:38.070 --> 00:38:42.110 me right now. What about the outputs? Everything's 00:38:42.110 --> 00:38:47.090 on a network cable. I was like, guys, you don't 00:38:47.090 --> 00:38:50.590 need to tell me anything else. At this point, 00:38:50.610 --> 00:38:57.570 I would like to go full digital. Yeah. All it 00:38:57.570 --> 00:39:02.190 takes is once. Yeah. I mean, you would think 00:39:02.190 --> 00:39:05.110 about it like we had to, like not only were those 00:39:05.110 --> 00:39:08.130 other cables so heavy and so cumbersome and so 00:39:08.130 --> 00:39:12.389 hard to work with and so they were so expensive. 00:39:12.809 --> 00:39:18.670 Oh, yeah. And if you mess something up, you messed 00:39:18.670 --> 00:39:20.809 it up. And you had to buy a new one. Yeah, and 00:39:20.809 --> 00:39:23.409 you could lose a channel in that copper run. 00:39:24.630 --> 00:39:27.710 And that was it, depending on where the break 00:39:27.710 --> 00:39:30.190 was at. Well, we're not using that channel anymore. 00:39:30.789 --> 00:39:32.929 You can drill into that thing and do surgery 00:39:32.929 --> 00:39:38.949 and take it apart. So there was a lot of improvements 00:39:38.949 --> 00:39:42.730 that were very easy to see, I think, on the surface. 00:39:42.969 --> 00:39:45.630 And the last improvement that I would say kind 00:39:45.630 --> 00:39:49.380 of along these lines is that All of a sudden, 00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:54.659 you could get a lot of functionality at not a 00:39:54.659 --> 00:39:59.659 lot of money. Yeah. And this is where, you know, 00:39:59.659 --> 00:40:02.219 when it first came out, or when the first ones 00:40:02.219 --> 00:40:06.039 came out, I think all of them were still prohibitive 00:40:06.039 --> 00:40:12.199 digital mixers. But a little company that was 00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:15.750 not taken very seriously. A little company. Yeah, 00:40:15.829 --> 00:40:17.690 a little company. It wasn't taken very seriously 00:40:17.690 --> 00:40:21.269 by a lot of the audio world at the time called 00:40:21.269 --> 00:40:26.570 Behringer. Came out with a box or a mixer that 00:40:26.570 --> 00:40:35.210 they called the X32. And the X32 had a few wrinkles 00:40:35.210 --> 00:40:40.690 in what was formerly pretty dismissible being 00:40:40.690 --> 00:40:46.469 Behringer. I don't know if they had already been, 00:40:46.590 --> 00:40:50.690 Music Tribe had already purchased Behringer and 00:40:50.690 --> 00:40:57.429 Midas. I think so when the X32 came out. But 00:40:57.429 --> 00:41:03.710 it was still very much a Behringer experience. 00:41:04.989 --> 00:41:07.389 But there was something different about it. It 00:41:07.389 --> 00:41:10.590 was like, oh, this seems to be holding up better. 00:41:10.730 --> 00:41:16.260 This seems to work more. And I know that there's 00:41:16.260 --> 00:41:18.639 a bunch of people that disagree about Music Tribe 00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:21.780 and stuff like that. But here's what I would 00:41:21.780 --> 00:41:25.900 say. All of a sudden, for $3 ,000, I could get 00:41:25.900 --> 00:41:30.380 a digital mixer that had a lot of functionality. 00:41:33.139 --> 00:41:39.639 And that opened up a lot of people to being able 00:41:39.639 --> 00:41:42.559 to move from analog into digital. Yep, it's disruptive. 00:41:43.789 --> 00:41:47.329 It was disruptive. And I really do think that 00:41:47.329 --> 00:41:50.969 board was disruptive. It's not like there weren't 00:41:50.969 --> 00:41:55.889 other mixers that were trying to be everything 00:41:55.889 --> 00:41:59.670 that it was trying to be. I'm not saying that 00:41:59.670 --> 00:42:01.570 there weren't a lot of boards that did parts 00:42:01.570 --> 00:42:05.309 of it better. All of a sudden you have Midas 00:42:05.309 --> 00:42:11.869 designed preamps on a Behringer board. You have... 00:42:14.589 --> 00:42:19.570 um, all of the pluses of a digital console with 00:42:19.570 --> 00:42:23.670 only a few of the little quirks that you were 00:42:23.670 --> 00:42:26.070 like, how does, how is that supposed to? Oh, 00:42:26.150 --> 00:42:29.309 okay. And by the like second firmware update, 00:42:29.510 --> 00:42:31.750 third firmware update, something like that, it 00:42:31.750 --> 00:42:37.050 was very usable. Yep. Now you're always going 00:42:37.050 --> 00:42:42.190 to have like the digicos and the, um, Gosh, the 00:42:42.190 --> 00:42:49.610 Soundcraft. Allen and Heath. Solid State Logic. 00:42:51.329 --> 00:42:56.670 These guys that are going to kind of... Yeah, 00:42:56.750 --> 00:42:59.550 Allen and Heath that are going to kind of own 00:42:59.550 --> 00:43:01.929 certain areas. Midas, I remember, used to be 00:43:01.929 --> 00:43:05.369 considered that. I think that something happened 00:43:05.369 --> 00:43:12.739 whenever Midas and... Behringer became a music 00:43:12.739 --> 00:43:18.179 tribe that I don't know if it was all customer 00:43:18.179 --> 00:43:22.559 service or if it was just the how it was difficult 00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:25.380 to find answers to some questions but some people 00:43:25.380 --> 00:43:30.539 really like latched onto it and grew with what 00:43:30.539 --> 00:43:32.519 they were doing and so some of the things made 00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:38.909 sense and some people didn't and so I would say 00:43:38.909 --> 00:43:43.849 that there for a while, I would much rather have 00:43:43.849 --> 00:43:47.849 mixed on an X -32 than a lot of the budget stuff 00:43:47.849 --> 00:43:51.190 that like Allen and Heath came out with. Now 00:43:51.190 --> 00:43:54.610 it seems like it's flipped pretty hard. Not flipped 00:43:54.610 --> 00:43:56.809 pretty hard, but it seems like everybody wants 00:43:56.809 --> 00:44:01.650 to be Allen and Heath. If you're in that mid 00:44:01.650 --> 00:44:05.769 -tier, you know, I don't hear a lot of people. 00:44:06.889 --> 00:44:11.250 um, screaming to get the, uh, Midas heritage, 00:44:11.610 --> 00:44:18.150 um, HD, whatever it is. Um, um, I, I thought 00:44:18.150 --> 00:44:19.789 it was a pretty good looking board to be honest 00:44:19.789 --> 00:44:23.630 with you. Um, but I didn't actually like the 00:44:23.630 --> 00:44:26.349 way that the Midas pros looked. So that's kind 00:44:26.349 --> 00:44:31.690 of a funny thing about all that. Um, but then 00:44:31.690 --> 00:44:35.030 quietly again, Behringer came out with, um, the 00:44:35.030 --> 00:44:37.849 wing, which, we'll talk about here in a minute 00:44:37.849 --> 00:44:43.789 like that again that kind of changed things um 00:44:43.789 --> 00:44:47.510 for a lot of us um and we i think we were able 00:44:47.510 --> 00:44:49.809 to do some things that we weren't expecting to 00:44:49.809 --> 00:44:51.389 be able to do even with some of these high -end 00:44:51.389 --> 00:44:55.110 consoles now when you get into higher -end consoles 00:44:55.110 --> 00:44:57.809 then you are getting into like these frame rates 00:44:57.809 --> 00:45:00.530 and every frame rates is that the right refresh 00:45:00.530 --> 00:45:10.280 rates um right anyway I'm not using the right 00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:13.380 words. I'm getting everything getting muddled 00:45:13.380 --> 00:45:22.239 up in my head. Where you get higher digital fidelity, 00:45:22.340 --> 00:45:34.639 the faster the speed is with these things. You 00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:37.280 have to respect that. You have to learn how to 00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:40.659 read in between the lines. Once we went from 00:45:40.659 --> 00:45:48.460 Class A amplification to D and all these others, 00:45:48.619 --> 00:45:53.179 what you're hearing in a sound wave is no longer 00:45:53.179 --> 00:46:00.820 a curve. It's more a really small stair step 00:46:00.820 --> 00:46:05.110 up and down. And you don't really realize that 00:46:05.110 --> 00:46:07.349 that's what you're hearing when you're hearing 00:46:07.349 --> 00:46:12.210 it because it's hard to notice the difference. 00:46:12.869 --> 00:46:17.389 But the smaller that, the finer that stair step 00:46:17.389 --> 00:46:23.030 gets, the more indiscernible it is. And so you 00:46:23.030 --> 00:46:28.989 got all these boards then pushing the boundaries 00:46:28.989 --> 00:46:31.369 of what is possible. And, you know, one day we'll 00:46:31.369 --> 00:46:38.519 look at. 48 kilohertz or whatever as, um, barbaric. 00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:40.579 Like, why did, why did we ever think that was 00:46:40.579 --> 00:46:44.800 okay? Um, but you know, right now it's hard for 00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:48.139 a lot of people to tell the difference. Um, and 00:46:48.139 --> 00:46:49.659 then you got people who were like, well, if you're 00:46:49.659 --> 00:46:52.099 not mixing at 96 and what are you even doing? 00:46:52.179 --> 00:46:54.320 And it's, you know, there's always going to be 00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:58.039 stuff like that. Um, but just the ability, um, 00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:02.829 the, the digital boards, um, brought for lower 00:47:02.829 --> 00:47:10.849 budget venues and lower budget, um, artists, 00:47:11.170 --> 00:47:15.269 um, to be able to step in to these spaces and 00:47:15.269 --> 00:47:18.269 be able to, um, really keep up with a lot of 00:47:18.269 --> 00:47:23.550 things that were happening was, um, I think it's, 00:47:23.690 --> 00:47:27.630 that's a game changer. What made the wing so 00:47:27.630 --> 00:47:31.750 important to us, um, are on our end. or me, I 00:47:31.750 --> 00:47:38.449 guess on my end, was I have a lot of, I have 00:47:38.449 --> 00:47:42.050 to have a lot of flexibility or had to have a 00:47:42.050 --> 00:47:44.369 lot of flexibility. And when you have to be really 00:47:44.369 --> 00:47:46.130 flexible, one of the things that you don't want 00:47:46.130 --> 00:47:55.829 to have to do is reconfigure the entire board 00:47:55.829 --> 00:47:59.550 based on, you know, where somebody's standing. 00:48:00.190 --> 00:48:05.530 on a given sunday or day whatever it is weekend 00:48:05.530 --> 00:48:10.650 we call it a weekend on any given weekend um 00:48:10.650 --> 00:48:17.010 but uh the what the what the wing did was one 00:48:17.010 --> 00:48:19.070 of the things that the wing did was it made sure 00:48:19.070 --> 00:48:23.489 that your um you can be separated um you can 00:48:23.489 --> 00:48:26.369 separate your source from your channel so there's 00:48:26.369 --> 00:48:29.130 certain things that the sources um carry with 00:48:29.130 --> 00:48:33.960 them biggest one of those is gain and everybody 00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:37.239 who's plugged into a different you know input 00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:39.579 and then had to realize oh i have to change the 00:48:39.579 --> 00:48:45.539 gain structure here again like that or oh i i've 00:48:45.539 --> 00:48:48.639 lost where that input is and what is i mean it 00:48:48.639 --> 00:48:51.219 was i think it was in 18 but now it's in five 00:48:51.219 --> 00:48:55.420 like what um yeah what was that again and you 00:48:55.420 --> 00:48:59.000 know you can name things based on where the source 00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:01.199 is or what the source is and then you can do 00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:02.800 your gain structure and you can do different 00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:05.199 you can do mute groups inside of the source and 00:49:05.199 --> 00:49:07.800 not just at the channel level like you can do 00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:10.880 different routing you know from from that the 00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:17.039 the tap point being at the source is really handy 00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:23.260 to make sure that you've got the unmanipulated 00:49:23.260 --> 00:49:26.559 sound that you're starting with on some of these 00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:30.179 things and um all of that means that you you 00:49:30.179 --> 00:49:35.199 have to it made sense i guess in my mind and 00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:37.219 maybe for some people it didn't but it made sense 00:49:37.219 --> 00:49:40.039 in my mind to make sure that the source is what's 00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:43.980 carrying that and the channel can be independent 00:49:43.980 --> 00:49:46.500 of that yeah like we're we're gonna make sure 00:49:46.500 --> 00:49:50.539 that this channel is used for this thing and 00:49:50.539 --> 00:49:53.739 i if i move him over here he just goes into that 00:49:53.739 --> 00:49:58.679 whoa I don't know how I did that. But something 00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:00.460 tells me it had something to do with the way 00:50:00.460 --> 00:50:04.320 that I was doing my fingers. Y 'all can't see 00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:06.820 that, but there were balloons all of a sudden 00:50:06.820 --> 00:50:11.139 on my screen. I didn't do any. I don't know what 00:50:11.139 --> 00:50:12.800 I did. I don't know. I can't do it. I don't know. 00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:19.719 I lost mine. I'm jealous. But anyway, there's 00:50:19.719 --> 00:50:21.260 a lot of different things about this. I feel 00:50:21.260 --> 00:50:26.119 like I. babbled a lot and didn't really say that 00:50:26.119 --> 00:50:29.099 much. Jason's probably shaking his head or screaming 00:50:29.099 --> 00:50:32.840 at the podcast by now that I'm not talking about 00:50:32.840 --> 00:50:34.980 something or that I said something stupid. Well, 00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:36.059 see, that's the beauty of it. He'll just have 00:50:36.059 --> 00:50:39.119 to send a boost. That's right. He can pay us 00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:43.699 to correct us. Speaking of boosts and Jason. 00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:46.800 Yes, we can transition to that as we're getting 00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:51.440 towards the end of the show. So this. First boost 00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:56.179 actually came in for episode, let me confirm, 00:50:56.739 --> 00:51:03.400 yeah, episode 28, the AI edition. And he sent 00:51:03.400 --> 00:51:09.880 us, let's see, how many sets? I hate that they 00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:13.199 break this apart the way they do. So he sent 00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:19.360 333 sets. We got to keep 313 once it made it 00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:22.579 through all the channels. 313? Yeah. With the 00:51:22.579 --> 00:51:25.460 comment, it would have been more, but there was 00:51:25.460 --> 00:51:31.820 way too many oh wows in the AI episode. I too 00:51:31.820 --> 00:51:35.719 have laughed at VR face after coming out from 00:51:35.719 --> 00:51:39.880 under the hood. Yeah. So that was in reference 00:51:39.880 --> 00:51:44.079 to you talking about your boys. Kind of having 00:51:44.079 --> 00:51:46.059 a little fun with you at your expense when you 00:51:46.059 --> 00:51:51.139 took yours off. Um, man. So, and then he hit 00:51:51.139 --> 00:51:56.260 us again for episode. Where'd it go? Episode 00:51:56.260 --> 00:52:00.679 29 altered reality with beer donations. Hmm. 00:52:00.900 --> 00:52:03.920 Who's coming up with these names? Um, that's 00:52:03.920 --> 00:52:09.900 you. Yeah. He sent us 1 ,234. And yeah, that's 00:52:09.900 --> 00:52:11.519 a, that's a big boost. That's a baller boost. 00:52:12.650 --> 00:52:15.170 And he says, one, two, three, four, because it's 00:52:15.170 --> 00:52:17.710 the pin on my JumpCloud password vault. I mean, 00:52:17.769 --> 00:52:21.070 oops, ignore that. Just for posterity, did my 00:52:21.070 --> 00:52:26.070 333 come through from March 11th? Yes, it did, 00:52:26.210 --> 00:52:28.650 Jason. Sorry we didn't mention it before. But 00:52:28.650 --> 00:52:31.869 one, two, three, four. Remind me to change the 00:52:31.869 --> 00:52:35.730 combination on my luggage. What's the code? How 00:52:35.730 --> 00:52:39.920 did they say that in Space Bulls? Yeah. That's 00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:42.519 the kind of code that an idiot would have on 00:52:42.519 --> 00:52:46.059 his luggage. What kind of an idiot would use 00:52:46.059 --> 00:52:49.380 that for their code? One, two, three, four. That's 00:52:49.380 --> 00:52:51.739 the code to my luggage. Remind me to change the 00:52:51.739 --> 00:52:56.860 code on my luggage when we get back. Yes. And 00:52:56.860 --> 00:52:59.900 then shortly after that is when Space Pulse shifted 00:52:59.900 --> 00:53:05.550 into the maid. Yeah. And you get the iconic line, 00:53:05.769 --> 00:53:10.969 suck, suck, suck, suck, suck. Oh, thank you, 00:53:10.989 --> 00:53:14.030 Mel Brooks. Thank you, thank you, thank you. 00:53:14.690 --> 00:53:18.989 All the movies that would not exist if he was 00:53:18.989 --> 00:53:22.829 born today. Don't get me started on Blazing Saddles. 00:53:23.650 --> 00:53:26.769 Oh, man. There's no way you're pulling that off 00:53:26.769 --> 00:53:29.690 now. I don't care if it is him doing it again. 00:53:30.230 --> 00:53:33.610 I mean. The people that you would have to even 00:53:33.610 --> 00:53:37.329 attempt to get buy -in from to do that movie 00:53:37.329 --> 00:53:43.630 now, I mean, one of the nicer ones is, oh, boys, 00:53:43.730 --> 00:53:46.429 look what I got here. Where the white women at? 00:53:47.150 --> 00:53:50.750 Where the white women at? And it just goes way 00:53:50.750 --> 00:53:56.690 off from there. I mean, I think we still could 00:53:56.690 --> 00:54:00.340 get away with the... Classic. Laurie's dad's 00:54:00.340 --> 00:54:03.539 favorite scene for Blazing Saddles is still the 00:54:03.539 --> 00:54:05.239 campfire scene where they're all eating beans. 00:54:05.900 --> 00:54:09.760 Yes. That's probably still fine. Yeah. But not 00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:15.260 much else. Yeah. Solid as a rock. Yeah, but that's 00:54:15.260 --> 00:54:21.880 my shooting hand. Yeah. Shakey shake. Yeah. Yeah. 00:54:22.340 --> 00:54:25.329 All right. Hey. Glad we get to talk, man. Yeah, 00:54:25.329 --> 00:54:28.429 it was good. Connection stayed once I moved the 00:54:28.429 --> 00:54:32.929 radio. Yeah, into your fancy dorm. Oh, yeah. 00:54:33.010 --> 00:54:36.090 Yeah, this is one of three houses that are on 00:54:36.090 --> 00:54:39.789 this property. I think in summer, this is going 00:54:39.789 --> 00:54:46.409 to be the men's director. Yeah, I think this 00:54:46.409 --> 00:54:49.670 is the men's director and his wife. Next over 00:54:49.670 --> 00:54:52.250 will be the women's director and her husband. 00:54:53.130 --> 00:54:58.570 And then way over yonder is a gigantic house 00:54:58.570 --> 00:55:03.210 that could hold probably three families. That's 00:55:03.210 --> 00:55:07.789 where the director will probably be. With his 00:55:07.789 --> 00:55:10.989 three families? Well, no, we're not going old 00:55:10.989 --> 00:55:13.989 school, Old Testament here. But I'm just saying 00:55:13.989 --> 00:55:16.349 there's enough between the upstairs and the downstairs. 00:55:16.909 --> 00:55:19.010 Oh, yeah. You could put multiple families. Easy. 00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:26.199 Y 'all keep making it happen. Yep. Yep. There's 00:55:26.199 --> 00:55:30.380 a, there's a lot going on here. So, well, I enjoyed 00:55:30.380 --> 00:55:33.019 it. Uh, definitely, definitely different without 00:55:33.019 --> 00:55:36.139 a beer. Yep. Dr. Pepper's great, but it's not 00:55:36.139 --> 00:55:40.340 beer. Nope. So we'll be back at it next time. 00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:44.119 Absolutely. Yes. Uh, I think next time I either 00:55:44.119 --> 00:55:47.659 want to try to get us, um, a growler of sanctimonium 00:55:47.659 --> 00:55:51.099 from true vine. Or I'd like to get a growler 00:55:51.099 --> 00:56:01.119 of the one at BJ's. They've got the one you had 00:56:01.119 --> 00:56:03.780 at that time. It was the bourbon barrel age. 00:56:03.840 --> 00:56:06.420 I haven't had that one yet. Yeah, no, it's really 00:56:06.420 --> 00:56:12.900 good. I liked it. I don't know. Speaking of, 00:56:12.900 --> 00:56:17.079 did you get your studio moved? Uh, not quite 00:56:17.079 --> 00:56:19.480 yet. We got most of it moved. We, we could have, 00:56:19.559 --> 00:56:21.980 uh, recorded there if you were here, but, um, 00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:24.739 we've, we've still got quite a few things that 00:56:24.739 --> 00:56:27.440 need to move over because Holy cow. When you 00:56:27.440 --> 00:56:29.019 start tearing that stuff apart, you're like, 00:56:29.099 --> 00:56:32.739 Oh, we've been here for a while. Um, but we're, 00:56:32.739 --> 00:56:35.920 we're mostly moved into our house. Um, and the 00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:38.699 good news is we won't have to use the internet 00:56:38.699 --> 00:56:40.719 too much over there because right now it's terrible. 00:56:40.980 --> 00:56:44.340 I need your help anyway. Um, so your little solution 00:56:44.340 --> 00:56:48.940 is not working. It's fine. It's just not. It's 00:56:48.940 --> 00:56:53.980 no 500 up, 500 down, Chris. No, it's not. We 00:56:53.980 --> 00:56:56.059 can still look to see if it's possible to make 00:56:56.059 --> 00:57:01.960 a bridge between there. Yep. So, you know, maybe 00:57:01.960 --> 00:57:03.400 we'll be able to talk about that one of these 00:57:03.400 --> 00:57:08.500 days. Okay. Sounds good. Well, have a good rest 00:57:08.500 --> 00:57:10.179 of your trip. Yep. Thank you, man. Get back here 00:57:10.179 --> 00:57:13.480 safe. Absolutely. I'll talk to you later. See 00:57:13.480 --> 00:57:39.179 you. Great show, boys. 10 out of 10, perfection.