Hey, Chris, how you doing? Hey, John. Real quick.
Oh. I see those solid states sitting on the table.
Does one of those happen to be plugged in? Yeah.
Okay. Not one of these, but another one. Okay.
All right. Check in before we get going. It doesn't
give me a green light if I don't plug it in.
Fair enough. So now it's red because we're recording.
I know we've had some issues with the internal.
It's happened once or twice or five times. Yeah.
All right. Not even on this show. Like, it hasn't
happened to us as much as it's happened to me
on others. On others, yes. Oh, man. True. The
struggle is real, guys. Yes. Living with ADD
is not a joke. Yeah. Yeah, that feeling in the
pit of your stomach when you go, I think I lost
the entire show. I'm pretty sure we weren't recording.
Or, oh, it stopped recording. Yes. That's fun.
That's a good one because you're not looking
at that light the entire time. No, you're not.
I put it out of the way, which is sometimes good
and sometimes bad. Yes. Anyway. Anyways. It's
good to be back. Good to be back. Always good
to hang out and talk and. Yes. Get some brewskis.
Oh, yes. Speaking of. Speaking of tonight. What
are we drinking? There's a bottle opener behind
you, too. I won't need it tonight. You're not
going to need it tonight. No bottle openers needed
tonight. No, that's a big boy. This is exactly
why I said tonight we slay giants. We slay giants.
We are having from local True Vine. True Vine.
Giant Slayer. Giant Slayer. It's a good one.
Yes, it is. I was like, you've had this before,
right? Oh, I have. Yeah, Giant Slayer has been
on their menu for a while. Yes. Menu. Now, when
they have it in the Nitro, it's even better.
I'm sorry? The very first time I had this, they
offered it in a Nitro. No, I didn't. I've never.
I didn't know that they'd done that. I haven't
seen it since. Oh, okay. It was just that one
time. Yeah. Michelle and I went one time with
Jacob and his wife, Laura. Okay. To Truevine.
And it was on there. I'm like, Nitro, take my
money. What happened? Where'd all my money go?
Yes. But it was so good going down. Yeah, man.
So yeah, I love this one. It's really good. Okay.
And you bought a growler. Well, yeah. Nobody
can see us. That's why I'm saying that. That's
okay. We're excited. There's a picture of beer
here. So we spent our $10 buy -in to get the
growler. Nice. So going back, all we pay for
is the beer. Nice. Yes. So $33. $10 is the bottle.
Nice. And whatever we want to do again in the
future, we'll go fill it up, and it'll be about
$22, $23. And that's how many fluid ounces? 64
ounces. I can sit here and just drink from the
jug. Put it on your pinky. All right. She did
put some electrical tape around it. Yeah, I see
that. That's not joking around. You're lucky
it's not wax. Oh, that'd be bad. Yeah. So this
is their way. Electrical tape basically is wax
though, right? Sort of. It's a plastic. And when
you don't have fingernails, it doesn't help.
Are you telling me you don't have fingernails?
No, I have a nasty habit of biting my fingernails
off. No, I, yeah. Getting nervous and stressed
and next thing I know I'm chomping and it's like,
that's not a healthy thing to do. Chris Kincaid
would be the last person on earth I would expect
to have fingernails. And not because I think
he's nervous. I just, it's not a thing. All right.
Oh, I should have put that in front of the mic.
Yeah, that was nice. I wasn't expecting that.
I could hear that through the headphones. I heard
a little bit. I'll let you pour for yourself.
Oh, come on. No, it is 10%. And it is very much
all the way at the top. Yeah, they don't play
around. We're not going to spill this. I'm trying
not to. That looks good. There's a little drop
coming down the side, so. That's okay. All right.
Oh. I just licked the mug. That's worth it. Okay,
well. Right about there is good. It is black,
black. Oh yes, it is. I love it. Love a good
time. Okay. Cheers with our big mugs. Yep. At
least it didn't break. Oh my gosh. And I'll be
up here the rest of the night cleaning up. Yes.
Oh yes. Oh yes. I was actually at fresh. This
is a callback to last episode, which not a lot
of people listen to. No, it was bad. Don't know
what happened. Here's a bloodbath. Um, but, uh,
I was at fresh, um, today actually, and saw the,
um, was it the, the Porter that we were talking
about that, um, founders make? Yes. The one that
was like coffee and chocolate or whatever. That
is a very good one. Yeah. It was there. And I
was like, ah, if I wasn't in such a hurry. Anyway.
Well, I tried a new one and it didn't go so well.
Oh yeah. What'd you try? Uh, well we had the,
we've had the left hand stout and we've had the
level. Jason had the, um, the nitro version on
that show. Okay. So they're milk stouts. They're
great. Yeah. They make a peanut butter milk stout.
And when I saw that, I'm like, Oh, just take
my money already. Yeah. And then I tried it and
it was bad. I got to tell you, like, I like peanut
butter, but when I see peanut butter stout on
a beer, I'm not like super sure I'm going to
like that. I was going in. Maybe I went in with
too much. Too much zeal. Expectation. Man, that
is good. Not, sorry, not the peanut butter stout.
Oh, they don't have a blurb. The Giant Slayer
is delicious. The Giant, oh, they have no blurb.
Sorry, folks. Here's what I would say. Come to
Tyler. Yes, go to True Vine. Go to True Vine.
Whatever kind of beer you like, they're going
to have something good there. Absolutely. So
I was going back and forth between this and Sanctimonium.
Sanctimonium, I think, usually wins out for me.
But this is really good. It is. This is one of
those, like, same exact recipe. I'm sure they're
not doing a whole lot different. Yeah. But for
some reason, this is, like, really good tonight.
Because it was poured from a growler. Poured
from a growler. That probably did it right there.
Sorry, folks. No blurbs. That's weird. True Vine
makes some good beer, though. They do. If you're
ever in East Texas, go find them on Earl Campbell
Parkway. yeah support your local brewing company
support your local brewing company wherever they
are um true vine is one of those uh ones though
that started out pretty small and has become
a much bigger deal it's almost like they're part
of building a community over there in west tyler
so i i'm the guys who yeah Run it and the. That's
their thing. Love, integrity, and community.
Yes. Oh, that's a TV. Okay. I like the old logo
better, but love, integrity, and community is
great. Yep. The owners are Ryan and Tracy Dixon,
and they're great. Yep. And they got like a whole,
like it used to be just them out there, and now
there's. There's all these stores and there's
a church and there's this place called Apple
Gals or Apple Gal or something like that. Yes.
My wife loves it. They do like caramel covered
apples, but like all these different kinds of
covered apples and stuff. And it's delicious.
Lemon Yellow has amazing desserts. Yeah. Lemon
Yellow has amazing desserts. There's a little
coffee place over there too. Likewise. Is that
the coffee place? Likewise. Anyway. And they're
about to get a Chick -fil -A, like, across the
street. They are. Not across Earl Campbell, but
across the loop. Pretty darn close. Yeah. That's
crazy. Anyway. Great beer. And they usually have,
like, live music out there, too, and stuff like
that. And good pizza with Solo. Yeah. The Giant
Slayer, though. I knew I was going to like it.
Sorry, didn't know I was going to like it. I
hoped I was going to like it when I first got
it. Because Giant Slayer, I think they're referencing
David, King David. I don't know that that's true,
but, you know, David and Goliath. Sounds good.
But did you see that Prime has a... king david
uh oh the tv show i've heard about it i haven't
watched it yet i've watched one episode so far
i was curious if they could keep it even remotely
accurate um because they can't do lord of the
rings no they can't and and it it is not uh okay
so what i would say is that it's um it's not
quite as good as like chosen in terms of like
i think how much effort has been put in for that
specific purpose okay but i mean there's there
are straight up like there's a first episode
there's um the confrontation with um samuel and
saul um and You know, there's some theatrics
involved, but it also like, that's exactly what
the Bible says happened with some of the things
that he said. He gave him the whole, like, you
know, God has torn the kingdom from you. Saul
grabs onto his robe and it tears. And anyway,
there's like things that I was like, that's,
that's exactly that. Yeah. But you know, Well,
I know they've got to do a little embellishing
to take it and turn it into a show. Yeah. But
sometimes that's where they get completely off
the rails. So if you can at least keep the core
correct, then I can give you some of those added
liberties that you need to do to stretch. And
we'll see. They've got, at least in the way that
it looks like, they've got Jonathan being portrayed.
Quite a bit older than David. And I don't know
if it's because their relationship is so close.
I just always pictured them as being basically
the same age. Yep. And I mean, there's not anywhere
I think that says that. So Jonathan was fighting
battles when David was. you know tending sheep
and yeah was surprising to come in and try to
fight a battle so uh there's there's a there's
probably i mean it's probably a good chance that
jonathan was actually like an older brother to
david yeah um but i just never would have thought
of it that way because they're so close and i
don't know that it has to be that way but and
then uh the other part of it um is they like
i actually have had a suspicion for a while based
on some of what David says in the Psalms, and
then also the fact that Jesse doesn't call him
in as one of his sons from the field whenever
Samuel's there to anoint one of his sons, that
David may have been born out of wedlock. Okay,
yeah, I can see that. Possible. It's just one
of those, like, I don't know. Maybe that's the
case and maybe it's not. It's never, I think,
said for sure. But regardless, like, there's
a reference to it in this, which at least makes
me think that these people have read the Bible
a lot. Sure. So we'll see. That's not really
what this podcast is for, but it did make me
think of it with Giant Slayer. Okay. We're going
to talk about some security stuff. Well, security
is one way of looking at it. Sure. Another way
of looking at it is MDM. MDM. Mobile device management.
Mobile device management. But I guess what I
was referring to is, like, why do we even have
MDM? Well. Why is that a thing? I need to break
up that voice. When I was a young whippersnapper.
I thought you were going to say, when one corporation
falls in love with one device manufacturer, they
get together and they have devices that are there.
There you go. No, for me, it's more like, well,
you see, when I was a young man, we didn't have
MDM. No. At best, we had Active Directory. Okay,
this is good. This is good because I don't think
I thought of it from that side of things. Okay,
so. Yeah, I mean, you go far enough back. Active
Directory, I mean, most of the time, I think
nowadays, you're just talking about, hey, this
is how we distribute a login. Correct. Or whatever.
But most people don't even really know what they're,
they're logging into their computer. Correct.
They're not really thinking about anything else
that that is providing. It's kind of what it's
been watered down to is Active Directory is nothing
more than, oh, that's my user and I log in and
occasionally I change my password. Yeah. You
know, they don't think. Man, I get yelled at
all the time by people that are like, I don't
want to change my password again. I'm like, I
don't care. Got to. Change your password. Change
your password, please. So, yeah, I mean, they
don't get the concept of group policy. and how
powerful group policy actually is. Now, we're
talking Windows here. We're not necessarily talking
Mac. There are some third -party applications
that you can put on a Mac to extend some features
of Active Directory to a Mac. Right. But generally
speaking, we're talking Windows. We're talking
nerdy talk of, you know, like, I'm going to...
Take away your ability to get into the control
panel. Or I'm going to only let you touch certain
pieces in the control panel. Or you're not going
to be able to modify your start menu. Or however
I want to lock your machine down. Right. I can
lock it down. All right, big bad IT guy. Why
would you want to lock down somebody's technology?
There's a polite way to say this. I'm trying
to change the wording. That is such an authoritarian.
What do we get in trouble for being? We're talking
about the good old days of IT. You are a fascist.
You are a technology fascist. I'm a techno -fascist?
Techno -fascist who doesn't like people. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. Sorry, go ahead. It's all about protecting
the device. the corporate data from intentional
or even unintentional misuse of a device. That's
what a fascist would say. Exactly. Exactly. The
rest of us know you just want to control thought,
Chris. Thought police. You are the thought police.
Yes, yes, yes. And you don't like people being
able to access solitaire. Well, if you work in
the actual corporate world and you have to deal
with HIPAA or PCI or Sarbanes -Oxley and on and
on and on. I'm sorry, that last one sounded like
something that you made up. No. No, these are
government regulations that certain businesses
have to adhere to. I mean, I agree with the others
right there next to OSHA. Yes. So if you're...
Sarbanes -Oxley. Oxley. If you're... stuck having
to maintain these sarabeth oakley sarabeth oakley
there you go i'm pretty sure no you made that
one up no no no no hang on that's gonna show
up in the show notes now yes sarbanes oxley there
we go what year 2002 so not too far back are
you kidding me no 2002 chris does exactly 23
years ago That's a while back. No, if this had
been, like, from the 70s and 80s, okay. So, this
has, Sarge Bangs actually gets into financial
record keeping and reporting for corporations.
Oh, okay. So, if you've got to get into any of
this, unfortunately, you have to have control.
You have to know who's accessing what, when they're
accessing it. You're recording all of this. You
can't do certain things with this device. This
is not your personal device. This is your company's
device that they're giving you to do your job.
Now, I'm going to say that most people don't
realize that they shouldn't be playing their
music in a public setting. Correct. Like there's
no, there's no, I don't know. Most people don't
understand the laws around intellectual property
of any kind. So like corporate understanding
of intellectual property and what you actually
own and what you don't own because you sold it
to your, the company that you work for, for the
salary that you make. Yeah. Well, a good example
on the music actually comes with Jason's dad.
Who was playing music in his restaurant. Yeah.
And one of those wonderful people that goes door
to door looking for violators walks in and heard
the music and they were like, Hey, are you, are
you licensed for this? Are you, how do you, how'd
you get this? He goes, Oh, it's on a CD that
we sell on the gift shop. And the guy had to
leave because he knew I can't touch that. Whereas
if it had just been them just randomly playing
music. Yeah. You don't have a license? Off somebody's
phone. Oh, hey. We have a problem now. But I'd
pay Apple Music. That's for you personally. Ooh.
What do you mean, Chris? That's not for your
customers. No, I don't know. It does technically,
I guess, under the whole Apple family piece that
you could, in theory, extend it to members of
your household. Yeah. No, we do that all the
time. But beyond that, not so much. It's weird.
If any of you are scratching your head like there
there really is. There's a lot. And, you know,
some maybe this is not as blind to most people
as I think it is. But I really do. Like most
of the people that I know are just flabbergasted
when I'm like, no, we can't we can't play that
music. And they're like, why not? Because we're
not licensed to play that music. Correct. We're
only licensed to play music during certain times.
Correct. Because that's what our license says.
Because I've read the EULA. The EULA. Have you
read the EULA? I will give you a copy of it if
you would like to read it. It was funny. I saw
a thing the other day that was the why is Generation
X so angry all the time? It's because we bought
records and then we bought tapes and then we
bought CDs and now we have to pay somebody money
to Stream music. That's not ours. Correct. And
it's like, no, that's, that is exactly right.
You've gone through all of the like iterations
here and bought all of this music multiple times.
Same thing on, on movies. We bought the beta.
We bought the VHS. We bought the DVD. And we
didn't buy any beta. Uh, we had made in my house.
No, we didn't do that. Beta was the superior
product. Unfortunately didn't win. I'm just saying,
I don't know. if it was just where we were, but
we didn't have any beta that I'm aware of. Maybe
they had it before I was born. No, we had a beta
player, and we bought some movies in beta, and
one of the things that always bit me is because
beta was losing, I wanted to see, and this goes
way back, this is before we ever came to Texas,
so I'd have to look up the date of it, but they
did the movie that brought together He -Man and
She -Ra. Okay. So this is how far back we're
going now in the 80s. I have the power. Exactly.
I wanted to see this, but it didn't exist on
beta. So every time we would go to the video
store, I would always go look. Do they have the
blue tag, which is for beta in front of it? They
never had a blue tag. Didn't get to see it. You
say video store. Yes. What was it? It was Evan's
video. Evan's video. Way back a long time ago.
when i lived in get this evansville what an original
name for your company so what i remember was
that we would go to blockbuster yeah and if we
were not living high on the hog we would go to
tom thumb and tom thumb had some videos that
you could rent from them really yeah Back in
the day. I don't remember ever seeing any in
a grocery store. Yeah. I'm just saying like we
had a, we had a pretty swanky Tom Thumb evidently.
Sounds like it. Um, but yeah, I remember there
being, and they were cheaper. That was, that
was the point is that they, it was cheaper to
rent from them. I think it may have been like
a shorter rental set of five days. It may have
been like two days or three days. It may have
been one day. I don't remember. Um, but that
was a thing. And they had, they didn't have the
cool, like blockbuster black, Case with the insert
that was white and blue. It was just clear. It
looked like something you'd get at the library,
the public library. Yeah. Wow. Just reminiscing
about all of this stuff, because now what we
have is all of this information, whether it be
personal information that needs to be protected,
whether it be corporate information that needs
to be protected. there's a lot of things that
are being handed off over and over and over again.
Yep. I mean, we didn't even talk about PCI. No.
So like there, there's all kinds of things like
that, that just, it, it requires regulation.
Yes. And, and that's why, what I mean with the
security side of this is there's so much that
is, it's regulated. It's, it's trying to be secure.
Because in all of the things that we've talked
about in terms of network and data transfers
and how information is being moved from this
point to that point, I don't think we've talked
that much about encryption or any kind of security
involved with these things other than firewall
and different parts like that that would have
security. um involved with them but mdm um in
my understanding is the new carrot and stick
sure for it well yeah and the beauty of mdm is
that it's cross -platform now yes like we talked
about active directory it's great if you had
windows but as soon as you put a mac you put
a linux device in there you put a unix device
in there yeah game over Now you got to go for
a whole nother system. So it is nice that I could
get a, an MDM platform and it doesn't matter
what devices I'm using. Um, you know, I can do
windows, I can do Mac, I can do iPad OS, I can
do iOS, I can do Android, I can bring in Chromebook.
And that's, what's really like, I think blown
some of our, uh, people's minds over the, over
the years has been the, the understanding that
like, I think when I was, when I was at Pine
Cove, there was the transition from all windows
into some Mac and then it was becoming more and
more Mac and everything like that. So we were
active directory. And again, a lot of what the
like, Oh, well the login and we got to figure
out how to do this and stuff like that. When
it was mobile devices, that's when it became
like mobile devices. Not BYOD, because we talked
about that for a while, but bring your own device
is an option. But when we're talking about, okay,
we need to make sure that the devices that we
own are secure. Yes. That's when MDM became a
big deal. Yep. And we started back in that day
with a product called AirWatch. Yep, I remember
that. Oh, that was, I feel like I just pulled
out a tooth or something. That was a long time
ago. Yeah. Out of the back of my brain. Because
I don't think I could have remembered that if
you asked me what the name of it was. I think
somewhere along the way, they ultimately got
consolidated into VMware. Yeah. VMware, I think,
bought their stuff. But that's the one that we
chose of the ones that were. available at the
time and the idea was we need to be able to provision
10 ipads at a time yep and we need to be able
to help people who are not local anymore correct
or in our office or town or anything like that
yeah how do we do all this is at the beginning
again i don't know how many of y 'all um Actually,
we're using tablets when they first became prosumer
things. iPad 2. That's kind of where it really
exploded. I had an iPad 1 for work. You mean
the iPod Megamax? Yeah, Megamax Pro iPod. And
I remember thinking, like, I mean, this is not
actually that useful. like it's super cool and
i remember having all kinds of enders game like
callbacks in my head of like oh it's just like
the glass um pad or whatever that they uh had
in that and i was i remember thinking like oh
it's a shame they call it a pad but this is straight
out of ender's game yeah well if you watch uh
2001 a space odyssey you'll see them basically
using what looks like the ipad as well that's
funny yeah no i don't it's been a long time since
i've watched the odyssey open the pod bay doors
how i'm sorry dave i'm sorry to do that that
red dot anyway um yeah but we've come a long
way since then absolutely And the fact that,
you know, most of the time people are doing,
I don't, what would you say the percentage there
is of like a, of an actual, like we, a laptop
is a mobile device. I'm not saying that it's
not, but when I say mobile device, I'm talking
about either a phone or a tablet. How much of
people's everyday um technology interface is
with either a phone or a tablet uh that's going
to be a high percentage of phone is probably
at least 75 i would assume i would i would definitely
think i don't think actually tablet is contributing
much in that level no but when it's like you
have to lump it in yep you know there for a while
there wasn't a separate os for yeah tablets and
even now it's like there's not really a separate
os for tablets and even we're really trending
away come at me apple from ipads try to try to
tell me that i'm wrong you can call it ipad os
all you want it is not that different it is way
closer to a phone than it is a laptop and you
know that you could do better yep i said it they
just need to complete the merger of mac os And
the mobile OS or pick one. Yeah. And to me, it's
not even like, I don't, I don't care. I don't
care if you want to make it harder for yourselves
by having three different OSs that you're updating
all the time, but iPad OS should be more like
Mac OS than it is. There is no reason not to.
And every reason that you've given for not doing
it is not real. I mean, that's no, that's either
lack of creativity or just lying to yourself.
Yep. You want to, you want to put this big chip
in these iPads, make them usable. Well, yeah,
I mean, it's gotten, it's kind of gotten almost
comical to their approach to hardware. I mean,
it's okay. Which M series chip do you want? Yeah.
And which form factor would you like me to stick
it in? Right. Because I mean, if I get a M one
based iPad, and i have an m1 based macbook and
i have an m1 base now i'm talking to older chip
but um i get an m1 based mac mini you know it's
the same processor now granted in a ipad it's
not going to have as much memory available as
they'll put in a laptop or the the uh the mac
mini or even in the imac for that matter but
it's still the same chip yeah and so it really
comes down to do you want your processor to have
a screen or not but that uh memory sharing like
there's it's just not like it it's not fair yeah
um and the fact that they're just i mean it's
just so limited um it just drives me crazy i
i don't need it to i'm not saying that you shouldn't
Tell people that this is what you need to be
doing all of your video editing on or anything
like that. I'm saying make this more usable.
You're putting a stinking keyboard and a trackpad
on it now. Pretty much. So I don't, I don't know.
I don't know why they even maintain the A -series
chip anymore. Oh, I mean, just... Just make it
all... That's got to be because they have more
of them than they... I guess. I mean, to me,
at this point, where they're at, you, other than
maybe struggle for battery life on the phone,
you could put that M1 in the next iPhone. Yeah,
Tim Cook is a supply chain guy. at his roots
i feel like there's some efficiency that he's
going for perhaps and some of it that i don't
again as the consumer i don't appreciate it um
but this is i mean you know this isn't just an
apple no thing at all um the idea that it's cross
-platform in terms of um any of these you know
you got android and uh windows and um and you
can bring linux yeah you can bring linux into
mdm as well um all of that is is fantastic yes
and now we're talking about um as i said the
stick and the carrot is the um i mean the analogy
speaks for itself i feel like but in this you
know world you've got the carrot and basically
the stick is, or I'll take it away from you.
Yes. The carrot being, being accessed, all the
things, your wifi credentials, your, uh, corporate
data and, um, access to your files and, you know,
your personal, your, what is it? The you folder.
Um, U drive. Well, yeah, we used to use the U
drive. Yeah. U drive is kind of a personal drive,
but you've like on windows, although I think
the concept is on just about gone now. Um, my
folder, my phone now it's kind of become the
documents folder, the documents folder. It's
kind of become an archaic way of storing now.
Yeah. And everybody's like, well, I'll just put
it in, in iCloud. I'm like, you know, that's
your stuff. Yes. I'm talking about the, like
the, Stuff that doesn't belong to you. Well,
it's all belong. No, none of that belongs to
you. Yep. That is a, that is something that we
are in the middle of. I say fighting. Fighting's
maybe not the best term. More about educate,
still educating staff on. Yeah. No, this is Pine
Cove's data. Yeah. This is Pine Cove's resource.
Yeah. You can't have this in a personal account.
Yeah. Because I can't tell you how many. People
who have come and gone, and I guarantee at a
minimum they have Pine Cove data, whether it's
in their Dropbox, their Evernote, whatever it
may be. And there's probably a reasonable percentage
of it is truly sensitive data that should not
be out there. No. But we have no way of knowing.
No. Because back then we didn't have as many
of the tools to try to lock it down. To prevent
it. We still technically don't have all the tools
for that. We're getting better. We're able to
control it more. But it's really become about
education, education, education. You can't do
this. This is not yours. You can't think of this
as me and mine. You have to think about this
as the organization as a whole. And it'll stay
an ongoing battle. Well, I think, I think because
of how personal technology has become, it is
not intuitive anymore to this generation that's
grown up with phones. I blame Apple. I don't
think that you're wrong. No. And I, and let me
be clear for those of you out there listening.
In radio land. Those of you that haven't heard
this spiel, I'll let Chris take it for the next
15 minutes. No, no, no. Those of you that don't
know me, Apple makes a good product. I'm not
going to deny that at all. They make a solid
product. But it is made for the individual. It's
made for the consumer. The end user. The end
user. It's not made for corporations and businesses.
And they're very specific about that. Yes, they
are. You have to listen to them now because now
they just kind of assume. That theirs is the
right way and that, you know, everybody agrees
with them. And I think it's not that everybody
agrees with them. It's that everybody, nobody
makes that distinction anymore. Correct. But
you got to understand whenever they made this
distinction originally, it was very different.
Yes. Yes. So in the IT world, we have to jump
through a bunch of extra hoops to make Apple
products work in business, to work in the corporation.
To try to convince the product that the person
who's using it doesn't own it. Correct. It's
very much the old joke of I'm trying to get the
Apple device to do what I want to do while it
does what it wants to do. Yeah, what it thinks
that you should want it to do. Yes. It's like,
I'm not telling you to do this over here, but
if you would like to do this and I'll tell you
I don't want it, maybe you'll do it. Because
if I expressly tell you what I want, I know you're
not going to do it. No, that sounds right. But
that like the difference between the, um, end
user being, um, being, uh, the buck stopping
there. Yes. Um, I mean, there's, there's an element
of it where I almost like, I, I almost feel like
they're also now just being just straight up
dishonest about things in that sense because
they know people don't know. No. And they know
people aren't reading and they just, no one reads
the documentation. Oh my gosh. Like the, the
idea that they really did just do a complete
bait and switch with like, Oh no, no. Like we'll
make it easier for you. All of your music will
be available and all of the music you want will
be available and it'll all just be. And all of
a sudden I'm like, wait a minute. That says that
I don't own it anymore. Like they're going to
use the other, like, I don't know. You still
aren't like, no, I don't know where to go. You,
you, you essentially bought a license to that
music or to that movie for as long as you pay
for it. Well, and until they decide to pull it
too. And until they decide to pull it. Yeah.
Yeah. Cause that was the thing is I think originally
whenever I, you know, signed up for, um, I don't
think it was even Apple music at the point at
that point. Was it Apple Music? What did they
call it at the very beginning? It was all iTunes.
Match. Oh, iTunes Match. iTunes Match. Yes. When
they did that originally, it was, oh, well, all
of the music that you own will be available everywhere,
and then all of the music, and we will give you
a better copy of it. We'll allow you to use a
better copy of it than the one that you actually
own because we have that in our servers. And
then the copies of music that you have that we
don't have, that'll be available to across all
of your devices and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah. And then all of a sudden it was like, wait,
these are all protected. Like file types. Yep.
I, I need my music. Yep. What happened? Fished
in. painful so and of course they didn't realize
that there were people like me who were out there
ripping it at such ridiculously high quality
yeah and then i get their version of it and i'm
like no this isn't good where's the fidelity
what happened yeah yeah so thank you apple fighting
some hardware over here um but anyway all of
that to say i think because of their Like you
said, they make a solid product, and because
of the widespread adoption of it, there's a lot
of things that new technology users don't realize
has been... This road is paved for a reason.
You didn't just happen upon a... paved road like
all of this infrastructure and all of this you
know um diligence towards certain things are
like they're laid by actual people and you've
got it professionals now that are saying like
oh you can't do that and they're like yes i can
and you're like i understand that you can we
can't yeah like the the company that you work
for is not allowed to do that You want to buy
your own computer. You can do that. Yep. And
do it however you want. Yep. We're not allowed
to do it the way that you're proposing. And I
got into that so many times at camp and less
now at the church because I just have less people
that I have to like persuade of that. Sure. Like
the like, Oh no, you're not, you can't just plug
your phone in and play me, but you don't have
the music that I want. I was like, I don't care.
If it's not there, you don't need to play it.
Please don't do that. That's not how this works.
Yep. But again, I didn't read the EULA. True.
Anyway, so mobile device management. What else
do we get with mobile device management? I think
we've only mentioned a few things. Well, at the
core and essence of it, compared to when we didn't
have it, is i configure it once and then i just
push it to the device and i still very much remember
the days of no mdm all right i'm configure this
device here's your device oh this device is unconfigured
let me configure this device okay here's your
device and you literally had to repeat that process
over and over and over and over depending upon
how many devices so just the fact that i create
the policy once i test it it's great I can apply
it to every device that we own that needs it,
and it's done. It's mischief managed. It's all
over. So, I mean, you can go as simple as you
want as, yes, it's managed, and I'll push you
some of the applications if you need them. But
for the most part, the device is open. You can
kind of do what you want all the way to the extreme
of, no, you're locked down. You're either in
a single app kiosk, and that's all you get. Because
that's all it's needed for. Or you get into the
concepts of you're locked down into a multi -app
kiosk, but you only are going to have maybe the
four or five applications that I put on that
screen. That's it. You can't change the order.
You can't remove. It is purpose -built for what
you need. And then there's obviously a whole
bunch of variations there in between. You can
get into, you can control updates. that's kind
of nice um so i i would say controlling updates
is kind of nice having an update server that
everything is pulling from is super nice and
it's probably only nice for like it guys well
we are at the idea that it's like Oh no. Like
when they're on property, it, we don't pull it
from the internet. We have this. We're actually
having an open debate right now at work within
our department on how useful is the caching server.
I mean, it depends on your data flow. Because
for us, we kind of perceive there are maybe two
times a year that it makes sense. And the rest
of the time it's kind of meh. So when a brand
new operating system comes out. Well, I would
say when you release a brand new operating system
to be downloaded by everyone, whether that's
in policy, your management, or when it actually
comes out. Yeah. Because then there's just a
ton of downloading it. Correct. So for us, it's
that scenario. And this is unique to us. This
isn't necessarily everybody. And it is once in
the spring, per physical locations like we were
just in central texas yeah and we updated every
single mac on property yeah it was nice to have
but out of those two scenarios nothing's happening
it's not it's not serving anything you've got
fiber running to all of your locations we do
yeah we don't we don't have we don't have fiber
in here so the fact that it you know on um But
you're gig everywhere, with the exception of
Wi -Fi. No, that's what I'm saying, is internally
we're gig everywhere, and we're fighting a small
hose most of the time on the other side. Your
download is actually bigger than our download.
Really? Yeah, our maximum download right now
is 250. It doesn't act like it on a regular basis.
Well, but you're also talking about dedicated
fiber internet versus... shared medium that is
a cable modem yeah and it's just unreliable the
what do you call it oh my gosh the the not the
speed but the no yeah we can just say optimum
optimum optimum is not reliable um it's not the
speed though it's the um throughput throughput
is not Well, I will be able to tell you very
soon how good their fiber product is. It just
went live for us today at the Bluffs. So it's
going to be a dedicated connection. How does
the Bluffs have fiber and we're not able to get
fiber? You got to talk to their engineers. So
literally just got installed today and it'll
be functional this summer for Ranch Timbers Bluff
Shores in the Med Shed so they don't have to
ride the bridge. Why don't y 'all just come over
here and office out of here for a little bit,
and then I bet they'll make it happen. We've
just been fortunate. Yeah, we'll call it fortunate.
You've been working there for a long time. Yes,
and we've also been knocking on that door for
I don't know how long. I'm sure eventually we
became the squeaky wheel so we got the grease
in order to get them to finally come do it so
we would be quiet. Cause there, there definitely
is some benefit to, you keep knocking on that
door and you keep knocking on that door. And
finally they go, if you'll just give these guys
what they want, they will shut up and leave us
alone. They'll stop talking to us. Yeah. And
we'll just get their money. We like their money.
We don't like their voices. Yes. Everyone wants
our money. I mean, that's pretty normal. Sorry.
I was burning up. That's okay. Anyway. That's
what I think the internal update server is good
for. I just got a lot of people that all of a
sudden are like hammering the network. And I'm
going, I would really like for that to just be
my internal network because I have way more faith
in it than what goes out of here. I guess kind
of what we've been looking at and even when we
were running an internal windows update server
and looking at what was happening, I mean, yeah,
you're, you're getting a lot of updates internally
and you are approving it and it's going out,
but it was, it almost became at times it felt
like it became hard to quantify the benefit when
our internet connections were smaller. It was
easy to say, yes, this is a win. Yes, we have
to have this. But as we, over time, have been
able to increase our bandwidth, and bandwidth
has gotten so cheap, it's become harder to, at
times, to feel like we can justify the update
server. So a great example, when we went to JumpCloud,
we no longer have Windows update servers. And
so everything is coming direct to those PCs,
but we haven't felt a hit on our internet connection
for those updates. It's good to know. So that's
why we're having this internal discussion with
Mac and going, yes, when we say, hey, you can
now download, it's a claw, as we called it. We
like to have fun names. Oh, sure, yeah. Not Sequoia.
Yes, you can have Sequoia now. So there was a
benefit, obviously, initially, because everybody's
like, oh, great, download, download, download,
download. It's like, whoa, hold up. And then
when we go and we have to run a bunch of updates
right before summer, it's huge. So what we actually
are looking at is instead of having a dedicated
caching server, we might... periodically grab
a device and go hey you're a caching server right
now you're going to handle this load for us and
then when we're done we're going to turn you
off that's a good idea because the need for you
is gone is very limited like in time correct
yeah so like when we were doing updates down
there hey iMac you're not doing anything right
now but you're going to stay on and you're going
to download this update anyways you are now the
caching server for this camp But even the ability
to do that, what you just said is, is part of
what we're talking about here is tied to the
idea that this is not just a random person's
device that you're connecting to. It is a device
that's owned and managed by fine cove. Correct.
So the one thing that we definitely don't do
is we don't do caching of iCloud. No, because
we do not. want anybody's personal data no again
this is this is kind of the flip side of this
we're like yeah hey no no that's corporate data
you can't have that no and this is the we're
going this is personal data we're not going to
touch that no so we don't cache anything related
to iCloud just so we know that we're not caching
somebody's personal data man and that that's
the other part of this that's been such a nightmare
in terms of personal versus uh corporate is the
The cloud availability to the end user and the
normalcy of that is like it. It's great. You
know, there's a there's an element of you. You
love it when people are competent and that they
understand what you mean when you say the cloud
or, you know. I don't know, whatever. But there's
the other side of it that's like, you're dangerous
with that knowledge. You don't actually know
what you're doing. The idea that somebody's like,
well, I just have that saved over here. And I
was like, that's your personal drive. And they
were like, that's iCloud. Your Apple ID is signed
into that, not the church's. And they were like,
well, I don't have a church Apple ID. I was like,
yeah. That's right, because the church does not
do that. Like, we're not going to provide. Do
you remember all of the Apple IDs? We still have
the spreadsheet. Okay, great. I was like, I don't
know if that spreadsheet is still. No, hundreds.
No, actually, every now and then we have a need
to pull one of those out. Yeah. Because those
don't have two -factor turned on. Nice. And so
you can, you can leverage one real quick. I don't
want this to have two factors. Now, eventually
they're going to grandfather all that, or they're
going to remove that grandfather and you're going
to be stuck. But for now we pull one of those
out every now and then. Man. Yeah. The number
of Apple IDs that I created, I was like, there's,
it's a ton. And I, like you had to go in individually.
And they would only let you, I mean, there for
a while, it was like they would only let you
do a certain number a day. Well, they still have
some of those restrictions. Okay, I was like,
I don't know if that's still a thing, but I remember
being like, are you kidding me? I'm having to
do this for 20 iPads. Even if you just do something.
I can only do five at a time. If you do something
as simple as just looking up the warranty state
of your device, once you do number four, you're
stopped for a while. And it's like, all I'm doing
is looking at warranty information. What are
you doing? Nobody owns that many iPads. I remember
thinking that with the device limits. Yeah. And
I remember thinking, oh, they're thinking like
a normal guy. Yeah. This is the end user. No
normal end user is going to have this many iPads.
Nobody's that rich. It comes back to they're
not thinking about business. They're designed
around the individual. I'm like, listen, actually,
I am very wealthy. And I like to have one in
every toilet of my 23 toilet abode. I would like
for all of them to be synced to the same thing.
Can you do that for me, Apple? You can have five
computers and, what was it? It used to be five
computers max in ten devices? Yeah, that's what
it was. five computers 10 devices once you hit
number six or number 11 sorry and it's still
like it is still five computers oh yeah i remember
being like actually i am getting close to that
with with when you bring your kids into the equation
you bring your kids into the equation you have
a few like work computers that you work from
i've got like three different computers at work
that i'd have to jump between four different
reasons and it's like i can't not have The stuff
that I need. Correct. I just got to, you know,
leverage the old airdrop. There you go. That's
the fancy version of the poor man's sneaker net.
Yes. Yes. There's an old reference for y 'all.
So the emerging market for me for mobile device
management is SAS management. So that agent on
that device is monitoring all these SaaS services
that you're using, and it's reporting back. And
you can say, yes, I approve that. No, you can't
do that. That, to me, you don't have to necessarily
just get that from MDM, but it makes the most
sense that it would come from your MDM provider
that they're going to give you that ability to
control that. Well, I mean, I like that we talk
about ubiquity a lot. uh ubiquity is leveraging
it also for just physical location stuff that
they're like they're like push for hey use us
as an mdm is also tied to you can use your device
to get into your building and you can use your
device to make your phone calls and you can use
your device to charge your tesla i mean i still
don't get that it's fine you don't have to there
we don't live where they live um but that like
The idea being like, no, we can make the carrot
look really good. Yep. You don't like carrying
a keychain, like a fob? Well, just put it on
your phone. Yep. You have to enroll in MDM. Digital
fob. Digital fob. Yep. I'll let you onto the
elevator or whatever they're new. Digital fob.
You can see who's at the front door. I need access
to your device. Yes. I'm here to talk to you
about your car's warranty. Yes. Your car has
been talking to our system lately, and it sounds
like you're mistreating your vehicle. We need
to talk. We need to talk about your extended
warranty. I've kind of been surprised that Unify
hasn't announced the end of the Tesla Charger.
because of all the shenanigans i'm not going
to try to go too far into that realm but tesla
is not the golden company anymore oh no no no
no no it's for these people i've kind of been
watching and waiting and going is that device
about to become end of life it would be very
interesting to me if uh never mind like it's
just it's one of those things that i don't i
don't i I mean, most of the people that were
pushing for everybody driving electric vehicles
didn't understand a lot of the consequences to
what they were talking about anyway. Yeah. But
it's now to the point where, you know, because
they bought in so hard to Tesla before. It's
one of those like, do you realize what you're
trying to shut down now? Yep. Because I'm not,
I don't care. It's a good time to buy a used
Tesla. man, people are trying to get rid of them
like crazy all over the place. Yeah. And in Tyler,
it's not like we're a big, you know, Evie market
anyway. And there were a ton of those trucks
sitting around in the lot. Yes. My son, like
he, I mean, my, my, my sons were both like incredibly
infatuated with the Tesla because, you know,
they go to school and people talk about things
like this. Dad, did you know it's, it's like
one of the safest vehicles has ever, you know,
been made or something like that i was like i
guess that depends on what you mean by that let's
talk about lithium batteries yeah i don't um
ticking time bomb under your hind i'm not saying
a combustion engine has never exploded by any
stretch of the imagination but uh i i don't i
don't know i know that they made some hummers
there for a little while that were you know Pretty
unflippable unless you fired an IED at it. True.
They also had body armor on them. My son was
like, what? I was like, yeah. Military vehicle.
It's a military vehicle that then was able to
be purchased by normal consumers. Somebody got
smart and said, hey, we're missing the market
here. We could sell these for a lot of money.
Anyway. people will overpay for this bad boy
and Harvey. Yes. But, and then all of a sudden
I said, I said that one, I think one line to
him. And then like, he was like, Tesla never
existed. They like, they like to point them out.
I love the idea. I love the concept. If you just
need it to get you to and from work, it's a great
car. But as soon as you want to take a road trip,
Forget it. The battery life is just not there.
Which is fine. Again, we don't need everything
to be everything for everything. And if what
you're worried about people being able to use
is that type of vehicle, but the idea that everybody
has to own two vehicles because they may need
to go further than Dallas is a little bit ridiculous.
Yeah, it is. It is. And it's crazy that we made
it from mobile device management. We also live
in Texas. To Tesla. How did we do that? Via Unified.
Via Unified. So there is a real connection here,
folks. We're not just going off in the weeds.
I mean, your Tesla did have the digital or the
key fob for the car. It was like a, you know,
not a. What do they call the transmitters in
the fobs for most of the cars that are out there?
Anyway, they had the actual NFC chip that was
communicating with the car and saying, this is
me. I guess I just always just thought of it
as just a fob or a key fob. Anyway. Yeah. Somehow,
we've talked about a lot of different things.
We have. And we didn't even really talk a lot
about too many specific mobile device companies
that are out there. That's true. I mean, AirWatch,
which is not out there anymore, but was bought
by... We didn't even talk about Jamf. We didn't
talk about Jamf. We talked about Jump. JumpCloud.
JumpCloud. And Unify. So yeah, if you live in
Apple world, you really need to be looking in
Jamf. Which is, yeah. Yeah. Now, changes a little
bit if you're trying to consolidate your authentication.
That's where something like a JumpCloud becomes
incredible because they are your replacement
for, Active Directory or whatever local authentication,
whatever you've been doing. And they happen to
have an MDM product that they offer that's baked
in. Yeah. And I mean, it's like single sign -on,
right? They're doing. Yeah. Single sign -on is
a part of what they offer. Yeah. Two -factor
is a part of what they offer. For those of you
that hate login information, single sign -on
is what you need to be looking at. It can be
nice, but it just becomes that much more important
to have two -factor. And to strengthen your passwords.
For those of you that don't know what he means
by strengthen your passwords, I'm going to have
a little anecdote here for you. I had I was explaining
to a lady that I was trying to remember a password
and then just gave up on and started trying to
look up on my not too shabby. I was just looking
up. than like what the password was and he's
done stopped trying to remember it and i was
like i just have too many passwords and they're
all very complicated yep and she was like oh
you need my password uh solution and i was like
are you have like an app she's like no it's the
way i like come up with passwords and i said
you're the problem to like the nicest lady i
don't have anything against her but like you
The fact that you just like tried to explain
to me that you have a password that is not like
you're saying that you don't, you don't use the
same password, but you have a password like system.
That's a problem. Yeah. That's. That's not good.
My only complaint with the password manager since
I've embraced it. Yeah. Is that I've been, I've
become so dependent upon it. So dependent. I
can't remember my password. Oh my gosh. I used
to be able to be like, Oh, no big deal. But I
mean, and now it's like Chris, a number of things
that I have to log into is insane. Yeah. But
it was, I'm realizing it was actually good exercise
for my brain. Yeah. I just can't keep doing.
20 letter passwords with very different thoughts
behind them every time. And then remembering
what they are and then changing them. That's
why you choose a phrase. Yeah. A fairly long
phrase. And then you can pick where you want
to put numbers, special characters, and it's
much easier to keep up than just trying to grab
some randomness. No, I mean, that's, I'm, I was
trying not to give it away too much. But like
the fairly long phrase, that's not repeating
the fairly long phrase or repeating the password
over and over and over again, then becomes the
same type of like shell game. Especially when
I've only got five attempts before it locks me
out. Oh no. True. So I have to like, I just don't
have the brain power for him. Yeah. I was looking
the other day. I think I had like 97 passwords
in mine. But I've also got some of Lori's. Man,
it's a complicated world. You're not using a
company -specific password manager for your work
and personal for personal? Is that what I'm hearing?
Are you in violation? Oof. I just got called
out. We're going to end this podcast on that
note. We'll catch on two weeks. I have some work
to do. Well, but I can help. I can help you fix
that. Yeah. Not that I'm a jump cloud evangelist,
but you kind of are. You can get for free, manage
up to 10 devices. And the beauty of the free
is you get all the features and password manager.
Is one of the features. Put it on all your personal.
Correct. So I use my JumpCloud password manager
on my phone for personal. But when I left my
work computer at work and I'm at home and I can't
remember a password, I'm like, oh, personal phone,
personal passwords. I guess I'll have to do that
when I get to work tomorrow because I can't remember
the password anymore. Isn't that nice? Yes and
no. I just mean, thankfully it's never come to
the point where it's like, well, I guess I'm
going to the office because this is critical
and it has to happen now. Yeah. This is also,
I would say one of those differences between
generations that we, it's much harder for us
to like stop once we get started on something
like that. And I think the next generation and
the one after it, especially are much more like,
Oh no, that's my personal time. Whatever, man.
Yeah. So. I got work to do. Yes. Get out of my
way. So, but there are a lot of great MDM solutions
out there. Xnode, I've used it. I can recommend
that. JumpCloud, as we've talked about. Jamf.
AirWatch, as we talked about, has kind of been
rolled into VMware. Meraki's system manager.
Oh, my goodness. Meraki. That's a good one, especially
if you leverage Meraki hardware. When you get
into their Sentry policies, when you can integrate
your switches and your access points into your
MDM, really amazing things can happen. If you're
totally locked into Microsoft, you're probably
going to want to leverage Intune. Okay. So, because
that's Microsoft's MDM. And right now, I really
wish Microsoft would change this. So for those
of you who have never done an MDM with Apple,
they have what's called an Apple Business Manager.
And I go buy their products from an Apple -certified
partner. Yes, it has to be a partner. Correct.
You can't just buy it from Best Buy and expect
this to work. Or Amazon. Correct. Yes. Or Wawa.
Yes. I give them our Business Manager ID. that
device shows up in business manager which will
kick it immediately to my mdm server and i can
totally set it up well microsoft has their version
of it but they hold on to it uniquely for intune
nice and i understand what they're trying to
do they're trying to keep you locked into their
product but i really hope that eventually they
go hey the writing's on the wall we need to open
this up yeah and then we can bring a really nice
uh solution to other mobile device platforms
for windows yeah one of these days but there's
a ton of them out there um different ranging
in pricing depending upon what your your budget
is um if you're getting into android and chromebook
google obviously has their own and if you're
in either the the non -profit package or if you're
paying for one of the business packages it's
going to be baked in and so if that's what you're
really leveraging you should take advantage of
it for sure so google's isn't as pretty as some
of the other options that are out there but it
gets the job done yeah you say it's pretty and
just i think it's functional but yeah oh it's
the the google solution is very much engineers
came up with these things and some engineers
slash a little bit of UI guys were like, well,
we'll clean this up a little bit, but they definitely
did not have dedicated GUI people developing
what you're doing. No. I got some best practices
they missed, which they nail on so many things.
So it's a little bit jarring. Anyway. So, but
ultimately if you are managing, I would say,
More than 20, maybe 30 devices at the most. You
really need to be thinking MDM. It's life -changing.
I was going to go much fewer than that. I think
that it's life -changing for anybody who's managing
somebody else's device. Correct. It's life -changing.
It's an important thing. Yeah. You just got to
convince people who are in charge of the money
that it's worth it. Yep. You got to give me the
money. I have to spend it. And yes, it comes
every month. Every. It's not a one and done.
Man. Every time. Yep. Anyway. Hey, good to talk
to you. Yeah, enjoyed it. Thanks for hanging
out. That was good beer. It is. You are the man.
Yeah, I'm going to finish the second mug. Yeah.
Yep. Waste not, want not. We're going to be sitting
here for a while longer. That's okay. All right.
See you. See you. Thank you so much for joining
us.