Hey Chris, how you doing?
Hey John, how are you man?
It's been a while.
It has been a while.
It's been too long.
Yes it has.
I do want to say to everybody who's listening, we did try to record an episode.
The technical issues were too demanding for the time slot that we tried to fit them in.
The risk of new gear.
It wasn't just the new gear, it was trying to do it differently with the new gear.
We were trying to do new gear and new software at the same time.
So it turned into kind of a weird mess.
It was just a disaster.
I'll say it.
It was a disaster.
It was real bad.
Every once in a while.
And for everybody who is an IT professional listening, you know there are just some days
that you cannot fix this problem.
Some days the gremlins win.
Yep.
It's too bad.
Hey, what are you drinking?
I actually have a new one.
I've never had it before.
It is the Rogue Dead Guy Ale.
This is a gift from Jason.
Nice.
Yeah.
Thank you Jason.
Again, a rare can for me.
Not a fan.
Not usually a canned guy.
Yeah so I'm not familiar with these guys.
So it talks about having hints of toffee, malt, it's nutty, it's bitter, and roast.
Okay.
So you're going to have to tell me.
We'll have to see what it's like.
Yeah.
I'm drinking a Shiner that my friend Chris bought me.
Yes.
Thanks friend.
You're welcome.
See if I can get this thing to open.
That was very satisfying.
Wow.
Whatcha drinking?
All right.
Cheers.
Clink and all that.
Yep.
What do you think?
It's not bad.
I'm just trying to figure out what it is.
Like what are you tasting?
That I'm tasting.
It's different.
You said it was bitter.
Like how bitter?
I don't think it's that bad on the bitter.
Maybe it's the toffee.
Is it sweet?
A little bit.
Okay.
Not too bad.
Not like the, was it a chocolate beer that you tried?
Oh my gosh.
So I mean it's good.
I like it.
It's good.
It would just take a little, I probably need to drink a few.
Let it run through my system.
Yeah after the third one tastes great.
They all taste great.
It's my favorite.
What's your favorite beer?
The third one.
The third one, yes.
Sometimes the cake.
Yeah.
Dad comment.
Those years are long gone.
So I do have a beer tip.
Okay.
Beer tip.
Don't know if we can turn it into a segment or not.
I love it.
Beer tip.
But we were at BJ's last night by the mall.
Okay.
Because Monday night, and this isn't the tip, but it could be for a cheap family meal, half
price pizzas.
Deep dish.
Oh yeah.
You should definitely do that.
Yeah.
So we went, the four of us.
So this is, sorry, we're recording this on a Tuesday.
Yes.
It was last night.
Monday night.
This is a hot tip.
Monday nights, half price.
Half price.
Yes.
All the time.
So wanted to have a beer, but I needed to drive and I tend to move to their, to Tonka
Stout, which is a little more than a normal beer.
Yes.
Yeah.
It's kind of like drinking two.
Yeah.
So it was like, I'll stick with the light stuff.
I'll stay with my Dr. Pepper.
But on the way in, I came in by the bathrooms and realized that they were selling some of
their beers in the can, but they didn't have the Porter or the Tonka Stout.
And so I asked the waitress, you know, when we were paying and I'm like, any of these
dark beers, I saw these.
Yeah.
What about the dark beers?
And she's like, well, let me go ask.
And she comes back and she's like, yeah, those two are on nitro, so they don't quite do that.
But they do have two that are not on the menu.
I'm sorry.
So this is tip number one.
Yeah.
They have a black lager and they have a bourbon barrel aged stout.
High gravity baby.
Woo woo.
What, what did you just say?
Bourbon barrel aged stout.
Is this like on a hidden menu somewhere?
Why would they do that?
Apparently, I had never known they had these.
That's mean.
Why would they do that?
So I've got to go back.
Yeah, obviously I have to go back.
Obviously.
And I've got to try the black lager.
Obviously, we've got to go back.
Well, I'm all for that.
I'm all for that.
Now the bourbon barrel aged, that probably does need to go with pizza because you're
saying it needs a little.
It needs something to soak it up.
Because if you've ever had a red bourbon barrel age, that's kind of tough to say.
Yeah.
That's not the beer yet guys.
Yeah.
Bourbon barrel aged are strong.
Yeah.
Strong.
So.
10 to 12%.
Yeah.
Again, it's like drinking two at a time.
Yeah.
So tip number two.
Yeah.
You can get any of the other beers as well as the black lager or the stout and a growler
for $15 and you can bring it back and get it refilled for $10.
I mean, that sounds like a good idea.
Oh, it does.
Every night of the week, baby.
Every night.
Getting a different one tonight.
Wow.
I was shocked.
I'm like, I didn't, this isn't on the menu.
And she's like, well, yeah, I guess they don't necessarily share this with everybody.
And I'm like, well.
Why don't they share that with some of us?
How do they know?
How do they know who to share it with?
Well, now it's getting out.
Okay.
Well.
With this huge reach that we have.
This huge reach that we have all the way to New Zealand.
New Zealand.
That's right.
We didn't get an Australian.
Listen.
We got a New Zealander, Bay of Plenty, close enough for me.
Oceania, baby.
We'll take it.
Yes.
I love it.
Yes.
We've got a lot of New Zealander across the continents.
Yes.
I'm going to say that we've officially done them all except Antarctica.
Well.
And I don't anticipate an Antarctica, and I typically don't even see that as an option
on the list.
Yeah.
I don't think that probably there's a whole lot of listening going on down there.
No.
That's a lot of marine biologists.
They're talking to the aliens down there, man.
They're talking to the penguins.
The penguins, yes.
Yes.
So.
Oh, goodness.
Well.
All right.
So we wanted to spend a little bit of time, since it's been so long, kind of go and we
just at least want to mention that the last thing that we talked about was kind of the
Apple versus PC conversation.
And I haven't said it directly to you because I wanted to say it on the podcast and make
sure that I got this reaction.
I don't know if you noticed, but I am using a Mac again.
Yes, you are.
It just it turned out it turned out to be more than I could bear.
And I don't I don't say that lightly.
I was not trying to be a quitter because I don't like quitting.
But that was that was pretty tough.
Tell me your hurdles.
My hurdles are connectivity to all the other computers that I service.
Fair enough.
So it's not technically not the PC's fault, though.
Not the PC's fault.
I will say that.
Yes, it has been very Apple driven that there is this divide.
And there's no reason why Apple can't bring their remote desktop to a PC.
That's not going to kill their mojo and what they're trying to do.
It's really not, especially with how much the remote desktop costs.
Correct.
So I like if you're even like, I don't know how to even say that.
Like it costs a lot of money to buy it.
The remote desktop controller, whatever.
For Mac to Mac control.
You know, it's really hard to get your entire organization set up well to be able to handle
that even after you've done that.
But I just I don't I don't see it.
There's no reason that they shouldn't be able to correct be controlled by any other hurdles.
PC.
So I really missed wouldn't hurdle, but I really missed the integration with my phone
and well, mostly phone.
I'm not really on my tablet anymore with not only like files being more accessible.
Sure.
Like automatically appearing places.
I missed that.
But I also missed the ability to copy and paste from one of these wireless devices.
OK, I'm just saying it's very nice.
You don't know that you miss it until all of a sudden you're like, but that's on my
phone.
No, it's just not as fun.
PC makes you stronger.
Yes, it does.
It is.
You have to actually think you have to flex those muscles.
Yes, you do.
I don't have time to flex muscle.
There's always ways to fix it.
There are always ways to fix it.
So yeah, I feel like it was the same.
It was it was the same type of thing.
So I we've talked about this, I think back when I was at Pine Cove, I tried to go iPad
only a couple of different times.
And it's the same type of thing.
I feel like because iPads very capable tablet.
But you have to like do that extra bit of thought to figure out how you're going to
accomplish the task in front of you.
And that's just at some point, I've got three kids.
I don't need my brain to work harder.
Well, I appreciate the fact that you actually called it a tablet.
Yeah, because that's what it is.
It is a tablet.
Yes, the iPad.
The iPad.
Oh, yeah, no, it's a tablet.
Well, iPad is kind of become synonymous like Kleenex and things for the leader in a particular
market.
Yeah, no, I can't do that with this.
I was there when they started this.
I feel like if I was there when Kleenex started, I could call it a facial tissue.
Sure, without any hesitation.
Well, I will tell you, Gen Z, they're killing me on the terms.
Are they?
Oh, they're killing me.
They're killing me.
That's not cool.
They say they have a they have a Dell all in one.
Yeah, you would think that they could translate that to being like an iMac.
Yeah, it's an all in one computer.
Right.
They call them a monitor.
No.
And they say we have a problem with our monitor.
No.
And I'm like, what monitor are you having trouble with?
This.
And then you start asking and they're like, that's an all in one computer.
That's not a monitor.
Yeah, that's a computer.
Oh, that's a PC.
You didn't connect the dots?
That's a personal computer right there.
Yes, it is.
It is.
Wow.
Yeah, this is OK.
So this is a fantastic segue, Chris.
I don't know if you did this on purpose.
Sure, I did.
You are a master.
So the next thing we're going to talk about is kind of modern support.
Yes, where we are in this world of being.
I.T. support.
Because Chris, you remember because you were actually doing it.
What I.T. support looked like at the turn of the century.
Make me sound old.
I'm just saying, we're both old.
You were actually doing training and then support.
Sure.
Early 2000s.
Yeah, yeah.
So I just like I don't think that everyone fully appreciates the difference between,
say 2004, I.T. support and 2024, I.T. support.
Sure, because there's so many people out here now that they either were possibly not born
yet.
Yeah.
I mean, we did have a conversation earlier today with our staff where somebody referenced
graduating from Chris reference graduating from seminary in 1997.
And we had a staff member who remained nameless, who was like, I was born in 1998.
That's when you feel old.
Chris was graduating from seminary.
I was in high school.
It's not like I was.
I should have been graduating TJC in that year.
Instead, I was being a loser.
Oh, whatever.
But you know what?
I stayed with it.
It's an important journey, Chris.
And well, it is on this side of it.
Sure.
But on that side of it, you know, my mom and dad should have whipped me on one side down
the other.
So, you know, but yeah, I yeah, I hear what you're saying.
It was definitely different.
Back then, you really could say that Macs really did suck.
Mac OS was wretched.
And everything then was Windows versus Novell.
Oh my gosh.
And then the real Uber geek just send us a boost if you know what Novell is.
That's that's that's who I want to hear from.
Novel Netwear, baby.
Hmm.
IPX, SPX.
You remember that with Novell?
No.
Yeah.
Their version of basically TCP IP, if you will.
Oh, yeah.
Incredible for communication on a network.
It's like LaserDisc.
One of these one.
I love LaserDisc.
I know people would hate on it.
Man, I tell you what, LaserDisc was amazing.
It still is.
Imagine in today's I know we're getting off tangent here.
Yeah.
In fact, we just had this conversation the other day.
Imagine LaserDisc updated for now.
Imagine that disc with Blu-ray level quality and compression.
Yeah.
You could have the full Lord of the Rings Extended Edition trilogy.
Sure.
On one disc.
Yeah.
But that's because it was the size of a record.
Exactly.
I mean, exactly.
I mean, to carry that around.
I went the opposite direction.
I really liked when they came out with many discs.
Yeah.
They were like the discs that were in the little tape looking cartridge.
That was awesome.
But hear me out here.
This would be if George Lucas still owned Star Wars, that would be his dream.
He could re-release everything on a whole new format and soak us all for money.
And we would all go, please, Papa.
He would do it too.
Can we have more?
I would not buy the new stuff.
Oh, man.
I will always be a fan of LaserDisc.
I know I was young when it came out.
So that's hilarious.
There's some romanticizing of LaserDisc and what it could have been.
We had a LaserDisc player in our elementary school.
Yeah.
And I remember thinking like, whoa, that is amazing.
And also, that is enormous.
Yes.
So I guess we'll circle it back.
IPXSPX was essentially their TCPIP.
Tremendous protocol for a network.
Chatty.
So you had to be careful with how you segment and how that worked.
But it was rock solid.
Absolutely rock solid.
And Microsoft was trying to make a name for themselves.
And they literally reverse engineered the protocol and baked it into Windows and said,
oh, it's no problem if you have a Novel network.
We can talk that language.
Look at that.
Oh, yeah.
That was back when Microsoft was still scrappy trying to compete.
And they literally pummeled Novel.
Well, I mean, you get a computer that can talk both languages.
Oh, yeah.
They're going to win.
Oh, yeah.
So it's a director thing of beauty.
Some people hate it.
It's amazing.
I love that you're geeking out over AD.
I love Active Directory.
Yeah, sure.
We don't use it at work anymore.
We've got a great product in JumpCloud.
Shout out.
JumpCloud does your AD.
It's essentially AD in the cloud.
It's a whole lot more than that.
But it's doing that.
Yeah.
But yeah, love Active Directory.
So robust.
You could build anything off of it just about that you wanted.
Yeah.
So back then, all Windows basically, lots of Cisco.
So that hadn't changed.
And that was back in the good old days of when the IT guy said, this is what we're doing.
And it got done.
Mm-hmm.
And today, it's a little bit different.
OK, let's talk about why that is.
So you want to get me in trouble.
No, I don't think either one of our bosses are listening to this.
Seth, are you out there?
He could be.
Maybe.
He's not going to disagree with this.
It's anyway.
Feel free to take the fifth.
I don't think that that's going to have to happen, though.
Here's what I was going to say.
So there was a time when I likened this a lot to when I first started.
We may have talked about this already on this podcast.
When I started, my father did not care about cars.
I asked him what his first car was when I was in high school or something like that,
and he said a blue one.
That's never been something that he's cared about at all.
And I've always been fascinated with go-fast machines of all sorts.
So loved cars, loved like matchbox cars when I was a kid.
I love just the look of so many cars.
Stingray Corvette was one of my favorite.
It looked like something out of a comic book to me.
This should be Batman's kind of car.
There was always this fascination with things.
I remember when I first found out about the million-dollar muscle machine, the McLaren
F1, and that they had the driver's seat in the middle because it was, of course, built
by an F1 company.
But that didn't even register at that point.
It was the fact that this is just the coolest thing I've ever seen.
And finding cars that could go so fast, so quick.
I just remember really enjoying that, motorcycles, planes, all of these different things.
I just really loved.
But my dad didn't relate to that at all.
And so I didn't really know that much about them.
And when I realized my love for driving, when I was 15 and 16, actually before that, because
my mom's awesome and let me drive before I was legally allowed to, but really started
driving and enjoying that, I had a love for driving, but I didn't.
Everything that was happening underneath the engine was, or underneath the hood, was very
elves with hammers to me.
That's the only way I can describe it.
I had no idea what was going on.
I knew there were moving parts.
I knew it wasn't a fantasy world of little small moving creatures or anything like that.
But I didn't have any clue.
When I got out of college, I got to work in a maintenance group for a while, and quite
a bit of that was working with one of the mechanics.
And he taught me a lot.
And so in that transition in my brain, loving this thing and knowing how to use it, because
I even knew how to drive a stick by the time I was in college, but still had very little
understanding of the vehicle itself, would very easily have just torn up engines, not
understanding them well.
So then being able to know how they work, this is where a lot of modern IT is now.
There was a while when it felt like the IT guy was the, like he could say how things
were going to go, because it was very much like a...
There almost was no other alternative.
You have no idea how this works.
You know that you want to be able to send an email, but you know that you want to be
able to hit the internet, but you don't know how to get there.
You don't know anything about it.
And now it's like everybody has just the smallest bit of knowledge about it, enough to be dangerous
with it.
And now, well, this place that I used to work did it this way.
And they don't understand.
You're coming from a completely different infrastructure for these things.
And you don't know how it works.
You just know that it works somewhere else.
And you actually don't know if it's still working there or not, to be honest.
Yeah, I mean, that's been an interesting transition to see.
You know, starting out, you just use whatever the company had.
And most of the time it was a shared resource.
It wasn't dedicated to you.
And it wasn't a full blown computer.
It was a dumb terminal.
Some had amber, some had green.
Depends on who you work for, who they got it from.
You know, Toys R Us, it was always a green, dumb terminal.
Nothing but text, basic menus, jump around with tab and your arrow keys.
And that was it.
Yeah.
Go to Office Max, they had amber.
Screen sure looked a whole lot alike.
Really?
Menus sure looked a whole lot alike.
But there were subtle differences.
But I mean, that's all it was.
And it really wasn't until I got to working for Cox Communications to where I technically
had a dedicated computer being support.
So everybody had to have a computer because you were having to get into systems and check
it out.
And there was a lot of graphical pieces at that point.
You know, and then make it to Pine Cove.
And it was very much you have what you have because it got donated.
And it was like, oh, this is a whole different perspective.
Yeah.
You were literally piecing together components from dead computers to make a functional computer
just to keep things running.
Yeah, I remember the computer that I started on in maintenance.
That was a shared computer, by the way.
Oh, yeah.
The only reason that I spent most of my time at it and other guys didn't get to spend much
time at it is because they kept offloading their computer work to me.
They didn't want to mess with that newfangled computer.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I mean, there's been a lot in that.
And there's it's not all bad.
You know, there are there's there's some give and take.
You know, you need your people to buy in to some degree.
At some level, it's hey, guys, this is just where we are.
You're just going to have to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and we're going to move
forward.
But there is some there's some give and take a good example of.
Our user base bringing something to us that actually ended up being better versus what
we had at the time was it was Zoom.
We were using Cisco at the time and it worked great, but it wasn't the best for interacting
with people who were outside of the company.
But see, that was the thing is Zoom appears as a solution to everybody else in a in a
time where all of a sudden everyone needs this tool.
Yeah.
Whereas before, when you're making a decision about this, you're thinking, what is the most
stable tool that I can buy for my company?
Not thinking, well, in a few months, everybody's going to need this.
Yeah.
So I'm thinking, how do I set this room up to be the best possible solution for something
that's going to be so rock solid?
I mean, honestly, we all saw what happened when all of a sudden everybody has Zoom.
It's not great.
No.
But it's what we had to do.
No, but it was more robust than what we had.
Yeah.
And it gave you the freedom to have to get out of the office.
So but that's a great example of our users going, hey, we really think this is a better
product.
And you look into it, and you're like, OK, so what would it take to get the existing
hardware up to that level?
And you're like, well, for that cost, I can just go ahead and go to Zoom.
Yeah.
I do have the sunk cost in this other hardware.
But the beauty of that Zoom had is I could still reuse that room equipment, point it
into into Zoom, and you can still leverage it.
Yeah.
And now over time, that year's aged out, and we've gone to pure Zoom gear.
But that's a good example of where the user base can actually have a good idea and go,
hey, you should evaluate this.
Now everybody's always going to be like, well, I have to have this because I'm most efficient
here.
And that may be.
But sometimes you get down to sheer numbers.
When it's going to cost $1,600 to $2,000 to buy you a laptop that's going to get used
for three months, or I can buy you a $500 Chromebook, and it's literally just running
a browser, everything you do exists out of a browser, I'm going to buy a $500 Chromebook.
And then we're going to make the argument for why we didn't buy you a $2,000 laptop
that collects dust nine months out of the year.
And then on top of that is some of the additional licensing when you get into something like
JumpCloud.
Yeah.
It's $30 for a permanent license to manage a Chromebook.
I'm at $12 per user per month.
And once I had that license, I had that license for perpetuity, and I'm paying for it every
single month.
So I'm going to pay for it nine months out of the year that I don't need it.
You got to factor all those costs in.
And then you can go and say, this is what I know.
I know we're saying we don't like this, but this is a huge savings.
And you're literally just going to open the Chrome browser, and that's where you're going
to stay.
I may need to show you how to print.
It's not that hard, but I can show you.
Not anymore.
Here's some subtle ways to add some additional applications that you potentially need, or
we can even push it to you.
And you're rocking and rolling.
In a corporate setting where you're having to make sure that all of the computers that
are going out at any given time are fitted with the same stuff.
Yes.
It's nice to be able to set it up once and push it to a multitude of devices.
That's amazing.
So I mean, there's always going to be some back and forth there.
In the corporate world, I don't know how much of that is happening.
I still hear a lot of initiatives around BYOD.
I remember talking about that 10 years ago.
We're talking about it again.
It doesn't mean we're going to go down that road, but it's one of the things that's being
considered.
Where we're at right now is we're literally, here's the cost for a Chromebook, here's the
cost for a PC, here's the cost for a Mac.
Here's who has to have a device year round, so they're probably going to have a Mac or
a PC.
But these summer use devices, that's what we're really trying to hone in on and go,
this is where the real savings is at.
And this is why we have it.
And I understand that you want this shiny Mac over here, but we're trying to save money
for the ministry, because every dollar that we don't spend could go into scholarship.
It could go into upkeep on facilities, whatever it may be.
So let's be mindful of how we're spending money.
I want to talk about that mentality of actually measuring the cost.
That feels to me like something that a lot of people can relate to in just general.
But I want to make sure that we talk about the fact that that measuring the cost is present
in so many more things than just a cost of the actual money that it takes to get something
done.
You're talking about the cost of training with a lot of these things.
You're talking about the cost of support in terms of man hours and with how well something
happens and stuff like that.
And your organization is probably, I don't know, are they?
I would say, yeah, they have to be more cross-platform than we are.
We are now almost solely Mac, which is part of the reason for me going back to a Mac.
That's fair enough.
We still teeter around 60% Mac, 40% PC.
So I mean, it's still fairly close.
And we'll probably say that way for a while.
I guess maybe some of those numbers shift when I consider Chromebook.
But Chromebook is only in a handful of spots right now.
But it has the potential that it could spread out.
I know you experimented, there's a hard word, with that yourself.
And some of the other hidden things in that is when you are cross-platform, that didn't
necessarily mean you always have a single pane of glass to manage everything.
Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't.
You may have to go to AD to manage some elements of your PCs and some pieces of a Mac to a
certain degree.
And if you've got a Chromebook, you're going over here to Google.
If you've got an Android phone, you're going to Google.
If you want to manage a Mac well, you need to find a system like Jamf to bring your Macs
into that, bring your iPads into that, your iPhones.
Yeah, I know we've been talking about that.
And before you know it, you're managing out of three or four different systems.
And so you're always looking for that holy grail of give me one pane of glass.
And JumpCloud is the closest thing that we found.
The only thing they don't manage currently is a Chromebook, but I can get everything
else in there.
But again, if you're so dependent on Active Directory, it's hard to bring in something
like a JumpCloud or an Octa or whatever that may be to manage that.
And you have multiple systems.
And when you lose somebody and you bring somebody new in, and maybe they're green because it's
a lower position, and you've got to spin them up one at a time on each of these management
systems and what that looks like, the amount of time and effort and documentation that
has to go into that.
And so you're really pouring time and resources into that person and you want them to stick
around because you don't want to have to keep redoing that.
And that person is having to spend so much of their time in the menu browsing portion
of their job, as I like to call it.
We all have seen it and probably done it where we're just looking at the...
We open the application and we just look at the menus one by one.
Where is this thing that I'm looking for?
Yeah.
I mean...
I did that the other day with Google.
And I would say that the more panes of glass that you have to open, even if you're familiar
with them, the more times you will find yourself in that position of going, oh, where is that
here?
And I'm like, I don't do this every day from this management site or this view.
I was trying to just find something as simple as the strike through in Google Sheet.
It wasn't a sheet, it was Doc.
And I'm like, where'd it go?
It used to be on the bar, I thought.
And then finally I found it buried in a menu, two layers in, and I'm like, well, that's
weird.
Okay, boom.
I guess nobody else is using this.
Let's be for it to come off the bar and be buried in a two layers.
No, I get that for sure.
There's a lot of figuring that out.
And I would say the other thing that makes it hard right now, kind of in the same aspect,
is whenever, because there's a lot of push now for iterations of software and hardware
both to improve every year and significantly improve.
I think there's probably some market research going on inside of that, that if you're not
giving a significant bump in either hardware or software every year that your market share
is going down.
So it seems like that because the number of things that they will change.
And I joke with our senior pastor that a lot of times they're fixing things that aren't
broken in order to make these changes or whatever.
And I was trying to explain to somebody, they were like, oh, you're a real Mac fanatic.
And I was like, I don't really see myself that way.
And they're like, well, you watch the keynotes.
And I was like, I feel like I have to watch the keynotes so that I know what's changing.
I have to watch these announcements of not just the hardware, but all of the software
that they're changing and the stuff that they're bringing in.
Because I have to be able to support everything that they're saying is coming down the pipeline.
And it's like, this is not like the number of things that you expect your IT guy to know
off the top of his head is a little bit insane.
Yeah.
And even if you are predominantly one platform, it's still hard to know it all.
And then when you are spread out across three, four, five different platforms, you can't
know it all.
At best, you're a jack of all trades, but you're not going to be an expert in anything,
especially if you're a small team.
What you're an expert in are the things that break all the time.
Well, yeah, there is that.
Those are the things that your IT professional will be an expert in.
I guarantee it.
If it breaks all the time, this guy is going to know exactly what to do.
And he can probably do it with shortcuts.
Because oh my gosh, the number of times there for a while that I was having to get back
into the kernel on Max in order to allow certain things to happen because they'd locked down
all these permissions.
Anyway, it was just ridiculous.
Like guys.
Anyway.
I blame Apple.
You do blame Apple.
They're the one that spun all this stuff up.
I understand.
But I watched the keynote.
I saw the flow guy.
And what did it remind you of?
Yeah, maybe Apple.
They had their different terminology.
They do.
And it was just as they're trying to be slick.
I mean, I'll be honest, anymore, the keynotes have almost become a drinking game.
I would.
I mean, not.
I'm not.
I'm not advertising that that happens or anything.
But maybe it does.
Yeah.
At a minimum, it's a bingo game.
Yeah.
And a middle.
Yeah, for sure.
But it's an absolute drinking game.
Like are you kidding me?
Say it one more time.
Amazing.
Yeah.
Spectacular.
Magical.
That was my favorite there for a while.
It's magical.
It just works.
Sure.
It does, buddy.
You got a lot of guys sitting there with their I fix it kits going.
I don't know that he knows what that word means.
Yeah, I don't think he knows what that word means.
Can't remember the guy's name, but the one guy on YouTube out of New York, he sure lets
him have it.
Oh, yeah.
Are you talking about Marquez?
No, he does it all the repairs.
Oh, the repair guy.
Yeah, I can't think of his name.
Shoot.
But he blasts them.
Oh, yeah.
Like crazy.
And he's a huge proponent of being able to at least have the ability to fix your own
stuff.
Yeah, right to repair.
Yeah.
Is for real.
Oh, yeah.
Like that doesn't make any sense that I can't, you know, look at this thing and say like,
oh, well, the battery needs to be replaced.
I should be able to do that.
Couple of screws, the back should come off, pop it out, pop it in, call it a day.
I'm not saying that we all need to, you know, be able to solder the motherboard, but there's
a few things that we should be able to do.
Sure.
And if Jason and Jacob are listening, they probably just took a drink because I said
call it a day.
Call it a day.
They have identified that I say that quite a bit.
Well, you know, we all have things.
So I'm trying to break it.
The first step is realizing that you do it and then you try to catch yourself.
Yeah.
I think Pine Cove has a way of doing that.
They make a cheer out of it.
Yeah.
And then every time you say it, you got to listen to them cheer at you.
Yep.
Let's count them.
Anyway.
Bro, I got nothing.
It's okay.
It's a first show back in a while.
Yeah.
It's good to hit the ground running again.
Absolutely.
We don't have any boosts.
We don't have any.
No, no boosts.
But in fairness, we haven't done a show in a while.
No blades, no bows.
Yeah.
Leave your weapons here.
Did we talk about OP3?
No.
Some of the open podcast standards.
As far as being able to track stuff.
I don't think so.
If we did, it was a while ago.
So it's been interesting to compare it against RSS.com, who we use for hosting to see.
And the numbers are way different.
Okay.
And so the question is, which one of these is lying?
Yeah, right.
So, but.
But you've plugged in OP3?
Yeah, I can send you the link.
Yeah.
I can put it in the show notes if anybody else wants to follow it.
But it's interesting to see.
You know, again, we haven't done a show in over a month.
Yeah.
So in the last seven days, we've still had three downloads.
Wow.
It's like, who's still out there downloading?
We haven't updated it forever.
Yeah.
Seven in the last 30 days.
Okay, cool.
Six whole downloads in July, baby.
Yeah, well.
Woot.
So it's interesting to look at.
You just wooted.
I did.
I wooted.
That wasn't even a woot.
That was a woot.
These are big numbers for our show.
Absolutely.
Especially in a month that we were basically silent.
Doing nothing, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So yeah, the most, wow, look at that.
Listen, summer is hard.
It's been even longer than we realize.
The last show was May 31st.
No.
Yes.
Two months ago, man.
Well, I can, like, I can very much explain being gone for the entire summer.
Oh yeah.
So most of us are kind of ridiculously busy.
Slightly busy.
But wow, that doesn't seem possible.
Well, I guess it does because we were going to do a show in the middle of that and that's
the one that just cratered.
Yeah.
I'm checking RSS.com real quick to make sure that date is right.
I'd be interested.
May 31st.
Wow, okay.
Well.
So that was intriguing.
So in May, we got a show out on the 27th and then we turned around and got a show out on
the 31st.
I remember because the 27th was actually done before that and it took a little while to
get it out.
Yeah, it was in the can for a bit.
And then the 31st was recorded and then basically released.
And then one other fun statistic, our big show where we really exploded on the scene.
Yeah.
So we were like, yes, your speakers are working, we're talking about going to the event and
seeing everything.
We're up to 93 whopping downloads.
We're closing in on 100.
Wow.
Yeah.
There's no reason that should be.
For whatever reason, that episode just like poof.
Next closest is at 58.
We said all the right things.
Third episode.
Yeah.
Which wasn't the third episode though, the one that we were like, this is amazing.
All of a sudden people are listening.
Well, that would have been episode, I think that was actually episode six because five
is the one that exploded before that.
It was like 10, maybe 20.
And then that one came out and then like three days we had made it to like 50 or 60.
And it was like, what in the world?
And we still don't know what triggered it.
Yeah, I know.
I don't know if it just randomly ended up on somebody's front page of like new podcasts
to listen to.
Showed up at just the right time.
Who knows?
Yeah.
Who knows?
Episode three was the big one on podcasting 2.0.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Podcasting 2.0.
That was a fire hydrant.
Yes it was.
Yes, and we are 2.0 compliant.
Yes we are.
We need a little badge.
Man, they should definitely give out a badge for that.
They've joked about it.
Have they?
They have, yes.
Okay.
Well, I'm beyond joking.
They should definitely do that.
So yeah, I'll send you the link to OP3.
Nice.
Get it out there for everybody else that potentially wants to track it.
Interesting resource just because you're trying to, basically it gets appended to your RSS
feed so that everything that hits your RSS feed gets redirected into them.
So that's why I say one of these two is lying.
Yeah.
Or at least skewed.
Let me say that.
One of them is skewed.
Yes, they're skewed.
Because they don't line up on the numbers.
No.
So.
I mean, do they ever?
The words don't mean the same thing in these two things.
Yeah.
So here's a great example and then we need to get out of here.
RSS.com, in the last 30 days, they say we've had 12 downloads.
I go to OP3, they say seven in the last 30 days.
I mean, that's a pretty significant difference.
It is.
I mean, that's like a 50% difference almost.
So somebody's got it wrong somewhere.
So all right.
Well enjoyed it, man.
Yeah.
Thanks for hanging out.
We need to do this again in two weeks.
Yeah, not two months.
Yes, get back on cadence.
All right, bro.
Grateful for you.
Yes, sir.
You too.
Have a good one.
India, Tango, Mike, standby, 33, 33, 33, verbalizer out.