Hey Chris, how's it going?
Hey John, how are you?
I'm doing alright.
A little bit tired from the old kiddos, but you know what that's like.
Absolutely.
I got three and they're little ones.
They're almost 10, 11 and 12.
It's weird because they're stacked right on top of each other.
The boys are only 12 months apart and Maddie and Micah are 15 months apart.
Right now I guess they're 9, 10 and 12, but they're about to be 10, 11 and 12.
And you've got like grown ups now.
Yeah, I've only got two, but it sure feels like having more.
Garrett is 19, graduates in just what, four or so weeks.
Yeah, figuring out what that looks like.
Goodness.
Figuring out college, next steps.
What he wants to do.
What he wants to do with his life.
He's already asked for a gap year and we already said no, we don't do that.
Most people who take a gap year never go back.
So we're not doing that.
I'm fine if he wants to take that first semester, dipping his toes in various things to figure
out what he wants to do.
But no gap year, not happening.
There's some wisdom to sliding into a few different areas and seeing which one feels
best.
Yeah, without going into too much detail on this show, I am a textbook example of what
happens if you take too much time off.
Yeah.
So, yeah, it worked out though.
Yes, it did ultimately worked out in the end.
But we don't want to teach any bad lessons that way.
There was a lot of lost years.
Yeah, for sure.
So, yeah, and then Tori wrapping up first year of high school.
No.
Yeah.
Golly.
Dealing with boys.
Oh, boys.
It's fun watching them run around the church.
And by run around, I mean, walk slowly around acting very cool.
My kids are still running around the church.
Yes.
Anyway.
Hey, what are we drinking?
We have something nice tonight.
It's very nice.
Yes.
So not too long ago, we did the Chame Blue, as I said on that show.
Tonight, we have Chame Red.
Red.
The Premier.
Premier.
The other one was the Grand Reserve, which is the granddaddy.
Yeah.
This is that next step down.
Down, but it looks very nice.
Oh, it's fancy and again in the a nice size wine bottle.
Wine bottle.
That's what it looks like.
Got the cork and the whole nine.
I mean, that's that's a champagne bottle right there.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, I'm going to attempt to open this.
But.
Watch your eyes.
Yeah.
Last one we did before the show.
So we'll see how this goes live on the air.
Yeah.
I don't I don't know how I feel about this, but it's going to happen.
You ready?
Go for it.
And oh, come on.
Yep.
That's what I had last time.
It's almost there.
Got it.
I hit the door.
Winner.
And it didn't pour over.
No, it did not.
Give me your glass.
We're drinking out of glasses like civilized people.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
See how my poor.
It's looking good from here.
So I tried to get one of my friends well, tried to get I have I have been coached on
this by a friend of mine and he knows like what you're supposed to do.
And evidently, like there's a there's a reason for the way that you poor poor and how like
when you go into the center and all of that.
But yeah, dadgum it if I'm not just and they all have their preferred glasses and right.
So this is not the chalice that they sell.
But this works.
Yeah, we got to figure that out.
Yeah.
Clink clink.
Cheers.
God bless the monks.
That's good.
Oh, man.
I'm a fan.
I think the Grand Reserve had a little more fruit to it from what I remember.
This is definitely that it's a little I guess drier.
Yeah.
Toastier.
I like it.
It's good.
Yes.
The monks know what they're doing.
Way to go, Trappist.
Yes.
I'm just saying if you all are looking for beers, we're running into kind of a obsession
here a little bit with these monks.
They're they're doing they're doing it good.
They're doing God's work.
Yes, they are over there.
We get beer.
They get the money to help people win win win win.
All right, so I've got a non tech question for you, but you know, it's related because
sci fi tech, they're inextricably wound together.
There's tech and sci fi.
Yeah, just constantly.
But you are my foremost expert on Dune.
And so I need to know now that the second one has come out and we see we've seen some
serious differences now between the book.
Yep.
And what they're doing.
Let me let me let me give my like not as big a fan.
So you've seen it.
I've seen it.
Okay, I've seen it now.
Okay.
Let me give my not as big a Dune fan going in as you are.
Okay, not knowing as much not.
Anyway, okay.
I thought like I really liked the first one.
When it came out.
It was great.
I was like, wow, the scope and everything like that.
My wife gives me so much crap about that movie because I liked it.
And she fell asleep.
She didn't fall asleep in the movie.
She falls asleep.
So falls asleep at movies pretty regularly.
Okay, if we're watching movies at home, she's going to fall asleep.
That's what's going to happen.
But she jokes that she had to go to the bathroom because it was so long.
And so she left.
And when she came back, nothing had happened.
And I was like, especially at the end of that movie, that's not the case.
Like there's just no way that that's the case.
But I will grant you there's a lot of things that they have to like.
They've got to explain the world.
Yes, they've got to build this world for you because, you know, most people have not read
the book books.
And so like, I guess I just expected it to be slow at the beginning.
Right.
And the way that they were starting to build towards what I knew was coming, I was getting
excited about.
Everyone comes out and I really liked it.
Like I there there are things that I know are not the way that they are in the book.
And I was like.
I can overlook that.
One of them in particular, because they tried to stay more faithful to the book in the in
this way in the what was that, 84 version, 84, yes, 84 version, which I have seen.
You know, and not not when this one came out, like I saw it.
Either in the 90s or the 80s.
Like it was a while ago that I saw that movie.
And so I had to like remember like, oh, yeah, the box shields like the you know, the like
what like number one, they did that way better.
Oh, yes, absolutely.
In this.
But our technology is also a lot further along.
Yes.
But like the one that the part that I'm thinking of is actually the way that they handle his
little sister in the book.
By the point that we get to in the little sister has been born.
Yes.
And she because of what they've already explained in the second one of her being.
You know, abomination, abomination because she is has been given the.
Juice of life, the yes, she got the product of the water of life, water of life.
There was there was some like hint of maybe she would be different even before then, because
her mother is benedicite because of the kind of.
I think they they are hending to how powerful she is as a benedicite, even though she's
not ranked very as high as you know, whatever.
Anyway, so before she becomes a Reverend Mother, there kind of is this like understanding that
this child is going to be at least mom can intuit some of what's going on inside of tiny
baby brain.
But then after the water of life or whatever it is, the.
Venom that she drinks or poison that she drinks.
It goes full on like baby can talk.
Embryo can talk like what like there there there is there is a different level she has
seen without being born.
And so when she arrives, she not only has seen already, she she's she's a like that
toddler is an adult and she talks like an adult and she has mannerisms like an adult.
And it was super weird.
That's what freaked everybody out around her.
Yeah, she's a little girl and she speaks like one of them.
Yeah.
And you know, like there's there's parts of that that I'm like, OK, like.
That was super weird to me watching the eighty four version.
And so I'm not I'm not completely hating on.
Maybe if if they skip years going into Messiah or the third, that it it kind of feels like
it's winding up to skip years.
Does it feel like that to you?
Yeah, I'm.
Without giving too much spoiler, I kind of know there's going to be spoilers.
I don't know how well I've got two answers to your question.
Yeah, I kind of don't know how they're going.
To fix it.
OK, so we'll see.
But yes, it does feel like there has to be some progression.
Yeah, because there obviously is between the first book and Messiah.
Yeah, there's a lot that's gone on.
Yeah.
And by that point, she's grown as well.
Uh huh.
So, yeah, there because it seems like what they're what they're saying is that she like
the next time we see her, she's going to be.
Anya Joyce or whatever.
Anya Taylor, Anya Taylor, whatever.
Her name is the blonde, the blonde.
Yes.
She's going to be her age, which I'm like, holy cow.
I would say that's probably a safe bet.
So I think there's a bunch like Paul's not supposed to kill.
The Baron.
No, Ney Baron.
Yes, very important fight scene with Sting.
Yes.
Sorry, Austin Butler.
This time Elvis.
Yeah, Elvis.
From Sting to Elvis.
That's funny.
Bald Elvis did fall.
The they don't they don't make like they don't they don't he doesn't teach them the weirding.
Nope.
The gosh, what's their Freeman?
Freeman.
Yes.
He doesn't teach the Fremen the weirding like there's there's things that it's like, what
is going on?
You lose a famous to me it's famous.
It's a standout line from the original book and movie where the Freeman has the weapon
that works off a voice and he says Maudib and it strikes and he says, my name is a killing
word.
I forgot about that line.
Yep that's true.
That's that's gone.
That's not good.
Yes.
Maybe he'll say it later.
Maybe they they haven't they just haven't made as big of a deal of like they they've
definitely talked about Ben and Jezret like powers.
Yes.
The power of the Ben and Jezret is not signing cool sign language.
We're talking about like the force speak or whatever it is.
What's the the voice?
Thank you.
The voice.
Not the song show either.
Not the song show.
Not the Blake Shelton.
There you go.
Thing.
The voice is you know when they have that weird voice and it like makes people do things
like the Reverend Mother making Paul walk towards her and it's all about forcing compliance.
The right frequency to control the individual.
Which I totally understand as an audio guy like I control people with frequencies all
the time.
Yes there you go.
You got to not use our powers for evil though.
What else?
What was it what were other parts of it for you?
So you want me to give okay so there's two answers to your question.
So if I step away from a person who knows the books and just watch the movie spectacular
movie.
Now really well again visually stunning just like the first.
There's so much practical effects versus special effects that really sells the movie.
It's I mean a total contrast to Star Wars Episode 1 that was nothing but CG.
There's so much practical effect in this.
Now obviously there's some things that you can't do.
Really stunning great story a lot to be learned about being cautious of charismatic leaders.
Being cautious who people who say they're a messiah.
A lot of intrigue there.
Stories I mean I guess the way it kind of plays out how things can turn into religious
and natism lots of interesting story there and Herbert intentionally went with that in
the books.
Yeah he was very intentional.
That's what he's doing.
Yes so again movies amazing.
I totally recommend anybody if you haven't seen it yet go see it totally worth it regardless
of whether you've seen the first movie you can actually walk into that movie and pretty
well just roll with the flow.
And you haven't missed anything that you're like yeah I really should have watched the
other movie.
Well again they kind of reach with her voice the which I also thought was interesting that
they started the first one with I just lose everybody's name.
Chani they speak they start in the first movie with Chani kind of being the narrating voice.
Right yeah okay.
Yeah I was like am I making that up.
I thought in the first movie was like Chani is the one narrating and then in the second
movie they switch over to the princess.
Irulan thank you.
She's narrating correct.
And she does she does a recap.
Yes which you know isn't as good as watching the movie in my opinion but you can do it.
Brings you up to speed.
Laurie fine.
So yeah as a fan of the books I absolutely hated it the first time I watched it.
Okay I was so angry not quite close.
I was sitting there watching that was going to be a big deal because Chris it takes a
lot to get him angry.
If you're not an AT&T support rep you're probably safe but or one of my children sometimes.
So I'm sitting there watching with my wife and the scene plays out and I think never
go that's not right.
15 minutes later that's not right and eventually she's like stop it do you want to leave.
I'm like no we'll finish it we paid to see it.
Yeah you know and I get to the end and she's like that was amazing and I'm like what movie
did you watch.
I mean this is like me with her and going and watching episode 8 and she's like that
was a great movie.
And I'm like where have I gone wrong with you.
What so are you talking about.
So we'll hit some of the specifics.
Princess Irulan is supposed to be the narrator through the whole thing.
Just like in the 84 movie it's that same way in the book.
The chapters typically open up with her having something to say from what she's written of
the histories.
Yeah the captain's log.
Basically star date.
Yes so that's minor I can kind of get over it but they did pick it up to your point in
the second movie.
Yeah I was I was it was weird to me because that's that's that's what it's supposed to
be that for it to start with Chani I was like what.
Okay whatever and then it started with your long year long.
Yes.
In the second one I was like what are you doing.
Yeah.
Okay.
So from Irulan I'm going to go to her father.
Should on the fourth.
I hated the portrayal Christopher walk walk in.
I need more cowbell.
I got a prescription.
So I thought they made the Emperor look so weak and feeble.
That is not the Emperor.
He masterminded what was going on in this one they tried to make it out to be that his
rev.
Mother worked him into it.
No no no no because they always do.
Yes no he was culled and calculating.
He knew what he was doing he knew he could put those two against each other one would
take out the other.
He'd have the leverage to control the other.
He was just that kind of guy.
So for them to portray him is so weak and feeble and simple minded.
So so disappointing so disappointing.
From there I can't miss the fact that his sister wasn't born.
Yeah it there's such a critical piece there.
That you've got to understand the Baron.
They're not going to do it.
So I think you can say it.
Yes and so I think that I I won't say something bad.
They chickened out.
They absolutely chickened out.
They did not want to portray the Baron for what he was and to portray her as the counter
weight to the Baron.
The Baron is horrible.
He's disgusting.
He's vile.
I think they portrayed the Baron as vile.
In the first one in the first movie the second movie the Baron almost fades into the background.
Yeah because they've got to get you angry with nay Baron.
Yes but you have to understand the Baron to understand the importance of his sister being
born and doing what she does.
The Baron in the 84 movie in the beginning he walks up to the young guy and pulls the
heart plug out and watches him die.
And he's loving it.
There's almost a sexual nature to it for the Baron in that moment.
Yeah I get that feeling though with the with the Harkonnens in general like that they they
they're not they're not they're not shying away from that.
They just put it on the people not on the Baron.
Correct and so the Baron.
Golly I hated him.
As sick as it is the Baron has an affinity for children.
And that's what makes his sister's role so critical to the story because the Baron is
so vile and then in the end he's killed by a child.
Such a poetic way to put that.
You're right that is tied the bow that here's the Baron he picks up this little girl and
the Baron thinks he's just going to be the Baron and she says gotcha and he's dead.
Tied at the hands of a child.
Such an critical part of the story in my opinion.
I thought they went a little over the top in his mom being manipulative.
She was absolutely manipulative in the book.
I think they went a little extreme but that's minor.
The biggest glaring problem in the movie is the relationship between Paul and Chani.
That was the exact opposite of their relationship.
She never doubts him.
She never questions him.
She never makes her feelings for him conditional.
That's not the way it works and you literally don't end with her leaving the way she did.
And again you miss a critical line from the book in the movie.
And that yeah she sees him now going to accept her as a wife and she's taking it back.
And then it's kind of explained you have nothing to worry about and his mom tells Chani history
will call us wives.
It's an important thing to be there.
That drives home the fact that yeah he's marrying Iroland but that's it.
Yeah there's I guess there's part of me that's just hopeful that they're going to redeem
her but I shouldn't be hopeful because it's Hollywood in the 20s.
Correct.
Well they have to figure that out because a key part of Messiah is Iroland poisoning
Chani so she can't get pregnant.
That's a critical piece of the story and so if she's gone what are you going to do?
No they've got to bring her back.
There's no way that they don't bring her back.
But I feel like they've got to redeem that relationship in a way that's going to be really
hard to do.
Exactly.
And that I don't know that Hollywood is capable of anymore.
They don't for Chani to take on the role that she's going to take on it's going to require
a woman to do something that they don't allow women to do anymore.
And that's like what are we doing?
So yeah.
Because I do think that they've made it obvious that Paul is still in love with Chani.
He's not like switching women in the new movie.
And maybe I'm just reading what I know about the book and the other movie into the way
that I'm reading these actors and what they're portraying.
But I'm like no like this is strategic alliance.
Correct.
Has to happen for him to be in charge.
But that's his girl.
Yep.
And what's crazy and I guess if you have his prescience and you can see the future he's
all like she'll be back.
That's weird.
But yeah there is an inhumanity about him now that was what was so endearing about him
before.
Correct.
Like his humanity in the midst of being able to say like no I'm not a messiah.
Like no I'm not that.
Like this is what's happening.
The reason that this is happening is because of this.
Like I'm here to avenge my father.
I'm here to fight because these guys are worth taking down.
And you know there's a lot of logic inside of that that just makes total sense.
And I don't think that that logic's not there anymore.
I just think that he knows that the way like that the way that that happens is for him
to take on a mantle that he didn't want to take on.
But it like the way that he interacts with Chani now I just I deeply regret the choice
that was made there.
Yeah.
So yeah they.
I agree with that.
They've made it difficult to write this ship so to speak.
I can only hope that they can put it together.
Because at this point the next movie is definitely happening with the money that they've made.
Oh my gosh.
Supposedly they've already greenlit to start writing a script.
They don't have a script.
Not yet.
I don't know how you write the one that they've written without having the next script.
They probably have some storyboards.
Oh my gosh.
But so yeah they're just now putting the script together.
See that that pisses me off.
Like you should.
Sorry.
Sorry for all the children listening.
I am frustrated with the fact that like in my mind great storytelling.
You need to know what you're doing in the final act.
And I have to trust that they do.
They have some basic outline.
So I don't know.
I'll be curious to see how they bring Chani back in.
Take her from.
I'm essentially I love you but I hate you.
To I totally love you.
I'm totally committed to you.
Let's rule the universe.
Yeah I don't think.
I don't know how they're going to flip that.
The more I think about it the more I'm like I don't think they can fully get there.
And that is disappointing.
Like I feel like it's a great movie.
And I feel like it's like that I'm so grateful that they stuck to so many story points inside
of it.
But like that you know he Paul does have a hero arc inside of this that he's yes he's
not just immediately able to do everything.
Like yes he's been trained but like he's got to learn how to sand walk.
Are you listening Disney?
You know right.
Like that's that that's incredibly important.
And I guess it's important for Chani to have a heroine arc of some kind too.
But are you willing to do that?
And I don't I haven't I haven't seen them willing to do that with any female since this
new revolution has taken place.
Yeah.
Women can't be they can't be weak.
Yeah ever.
And it's like well that's that's not good.
Yeah one other thing and then we can switch here.
They never gave us the visual of a navigator.
That's true.
We never got to see the navigator for the for the Spacing Guild.
Wait a minute.
Which they have to bring that in to the third movie because there's a guild navigator working
with Irelon and all the other there's a is it Tui Lak Su Pidi Tui Lak Su the face changers.
Yes and so you've got this group of three or four that are plotting against Paul to
try to overthrow him in Messiah and then you've got them trying to suppress Chani so she can't
give him potentially another male heir.
Oh that was another thing that they didn't that was critical.
They actually had a child.
They had a boy.
Lato.
Yeah because Lato has to.
Because in the book.
He has a son named after his dad.
Correct and in this movie where you see them obliterate the CH.
Yeah it's supposed to be Lato.
That's where Lato dies.
Yeah because that's what drives him over the edge.
Yes.
I forgot about that.
Yes so that's and that's not that was one other critical piece that's missing.
So now I've completely made you hate the movie.
I have not.
I it's still like I just I think because I just don't expect them to do good anymore
that there was anything good inside of it and it just the production level was so high.
I thought you know the storytelling that they did was so high the way that they're showing
multiple like sides to this story in so many different ways is so good.
The fact that they had Paul train I think like Enford that to be anyway.
And I won't even get started on Thufir.
The fact that he was exempt from the movie that I won't go down.
I won't go down that rabbit trail.
Okay enough dune bashing.
People still enjoyed it still recommend you go see it if you haven't seen it.
But you recommend that they go read the book.
If you haven't read the book go watch the movie first.
Okay because I want you to at least enjoy the movie because if you read the book first
and then you go watch this movie you're going to be frustrated.
So watch the movie have a blast then read the book and then go oh man they got it wrong.
So I guess there goes our advertising dollars talking about the product.
Sorry.
Oh well.
I wasn't gonna get free tickets anyway.
No me neither.
All right so let's pick up where we left off.
So last time we talked about the super amazing OSI model.
OSI model.
And I bet you all were so riveted.
Riveted.
There was a little bit of nerd knob in that episode.
We'll try not to go quite that far this time.
Nerd knob.
Do you want to go ahead and read the what we forgot what we didn't know about.
Oh you want to hit the booster gram.
Yeah can we go ahead and do the booster gram.
Sure.
I know that's kind of out of order but.
That's okay.
So we missed one that actually came in back on February 26th.
Yeah sorry about that.
Don't know how we missed the notification.
But we got a boost.
We're mere mortals.
Yeah that we are.
Of 2222 sets from our friend Jason.
Yay Jason.
With a message of boosting for the LUFS.
LUFS.
So if you listen to.
I mean it was that long ago.
Yes that was the compression.
Sorry guys.
For those that don't know LUFS is the measurement of how loud it sounds.
Perceived sound.
Perceived sound yes versus actual boost in what you're doing.
So thank you Jason.
Appreciate it very much.
Always.
So far he's about the only one.
Yeah I know he definitely is the only one.
I think I put one test in one time just to make sure it was working.
Well I mean yeah.
So but again thank you Jason.
Appreciate it.
Always.
Yes as always.
You're the man.
Thank you sir.
All right.
So now into the meat and potatoes.
Meat and potatoes.
So we're going to talk about some networking hardware.
Most of this you have some form of it in your house if you have a network or you've used
it and not necessarily known it in your work environment.
So I'm going to go out of order to how it's written on this sheet.
I'm going to drop down to a hub.
And all I can ultimately say is if you find a hub you shoot it and you kill it.
You do not want to have a network.
Listen Pankov.
Hubs are evil and must be destroyed.
They are junkies.
So they're all now I say that there is still one reasonable use case.
If you don't have the ability to mirror the port that is passing your internet traffic
and you're trying to pull that off for inspection.
You can put in a hub.
The way a hub works is whatever comes in on one port all of that goes out on every other
port so everybody gets flooded with all the traffic.
So again if you're trying to run Wireshark and you're trying to find anomalies going
out to your internet connection or coming in and you again you can't mirror the port
over to another port hub is a great way to achieve that.
But other than that it's kind of stupid.
Other than that it's stupid.
Kill it get it out of your network.
Then you go back far enough a hub was in that in that time was amazing.
You could plug in your computers.
You got the connectivity that you wanted.
When you plug one in everything was great.
But as soon as you plugged in the next computer that collision light started going crazy because
everybody's trying to transmit and receive at the same time.
Different things different.
Yes.
And those packets literally collide with each other if you will on the wire and it's like
oh okay can we say literally collide with each other on the wire.
I think so.
Yes.
Okay.
Yes.
Because you're I'm transmitting in this port you I've transmitted on port one you're on
port two.
They're literally passing the same paths.
Yeah.
And they literally block each other like oh we can't both transmit at the same time.
This doesn't work.
Right.
And so both computers have to stop doing random countdown and then transmit again and hope
you don't have a collision.
So not pretty not pretty.
But when that when that's all you had that's all you had.
But we don't have only that anymore.
No we don't.
So let's move on to what we have.
Yes.
So they got smart and they gave us switches switches switches are amazing.
What up switches.
Everybody has their own dedicated port.
No more collisions no more collisions.
It's amazing how that works.
Now there is technically a shared back plane if you will and how much data can be transmitted.
Yeah.
But the switch knows this computer is on this port and it knows that based off of the unique
Mac ID if you remember that from last time it knows this Mac ID of this computer is on
port one and it knows that this computer over here is on with a different Mac with a different
Mac ID.
Yes.
On port 10 and the computer on port 10 wants to talk to a computer on port one.
It says here you go because oh I know exactly where that computer is.
Drops it out port one doesn't have to blast it out over every port going.
Hope you're out there.
Which one are you.
Yes.
So huge huge huge improvements.
They're beautiful.
So switches operate at layer two since we're talking about that's why we're talking about
Mac IDs Mac IDs layer two layer two.
Yes.
So that's what's happening in your home.
It may all be in one box.
The what most people have a lot of time it comes from the Internet provider.
We talked about that in a previous episode.
It's all in one router switch Wi-Fi.
But these if you're if you're nerdy enough you have a dedicated switch.
If you're nerdy enough if you're nerdy enough most people don't care.
They just want it to work.
I plug in the power I plug in this cable and it works.
That's all I care about.
That's the Apple model.
Listen don't tell me I'm wrong.
Don't get ugly.
Tell me I'm wrong.
I think that Apple is aware that most people are stupid.
I didn't say people are stupid.
I just want it simple and they want it to work.
No I think that most people are stupid.
They they they are it's there's a I I'm not going to badmouth people that I love.
Jay Redfern at South spring.org.
Don't message me.
Don't at me.
It's just it's one of those things that we.
I mean I'm tired.
I have three children.
Yes I haven't slept in a decade like the there's a lot going on.
If I don't have to know it then I don't want to know it right now.
Sure.
And I get that with with everybody.
I get that if this isn't something that you need to know about like you don't know about
it.
So stupid is harsh.
I should not have said the S word.
But it there is a lot of like I don't I don't want to.
I've got a problem solve my you know 12 year old doing 12 year old things.
I don't want a problem solve the Internet.
Sure.
So I get it.
Yeah.
But it is a radical lack of knowledge.
There you go.
There's something that affects all of our lives in a way that we never imagined it would.
Correct.
It's those of us that were born in the 80s or before.
Correct.
So switches are amazing.
Make your life easier.
Make your network more efficient.
Great.
Not just to add more ports.
No not just add more ports although that can be nice.
Yeah.
Especially if it's got POE.
POE man.
Power over Ethernet is the greatest thing ever.
I just it really is sliced bread.
It is.
For the network.
Yes.
And then at the same time it's like oh my gosh we used to have to plug everything in.
We did.
You remember those days?
Yep.
You had your POE brick.
Bus powered is the way to go.
You got to plug one into the device, one into the switch.
Brick would die on you.
Why'd the Wi-Fi go out?
Oh there's no power.
So yeah POE on every port.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
Okay so I learned the behavior of switches in middle school.
So I understood it in middle school.
Do it all through high school.
I get in the college and then all of a sudden they go this is a layer three switch.
And you said what?
Whoa.
No it's not.
It's layer two.
No this is a layer three switch.
I'm like are you messing with me?
Because switches are layer two.
And they're like no this is real.
This is a layer three switch.
And I'm like you need to explain.
And then so I find out some switches are capable of layer three.
You can take a regular port, make it layer three so it can route.
And it's just unique to that one specific port.
My mind was just blown.
I'm like a switch can be layer two or layer three.
This is amazing.
Well and to be to be frank in the world that we live in still network two is enough for
most things.
Yes.
What do you get when you add layer three?
You can have multiple networks in your network and route traffic accordingly.
So you could have your standard regular network that most of your device is on.
Yep.
In this day and age you've got some kind of IoT device in your house whether it's a thermostat
or something that is home automation, Apple TV, Chromecast, you name it.
There's something IoT in your house most likely in this day and age.
You don't necessarily want those talking to everything else on your network.
You can now create a unique network for your IoT devices.
And now you can say if you want to talk to that you've got to go through this port and
route over here.
That is basically how that works.
Now this isn't the same thing as a router.
We'll get into that in a second.
There is a specific difference between a router and a layer three switch port.
Sure.
But it's amazing what you can do.
Yeah.
I mean I'm trying to figure out because like I don't want to make it more.
Why don't we talk about routers and then we can come back to layer three.
Because I don't want to talk about what I was about to say about the way to think about
multiple networks without talking about routing.
Because it's a specific...
That could get confusing real fast.
Sorry.
Okay.
I can see how this is going to...
So routers, layer three.
IP addresses all day long.
Routers can have multiple ports.
Each port connects to a specific network and you set rules inside on how to route accordingly.
If you are going looking for this destination then you need to go to port one.
You're looking for this other destination.
You need to go to port three.
That's what's happening in there all day long based off IP addresses.
So if you think about...
I'm trying to make sure that this isn't going to get confusing.
If you think about mailing addresses.
Okay.
Yep.
You have a street address.
Yep.
That's an IP address.
Fair.
Yep.
Or maybe a MAC address.
Anyway an IP address.
And then you have a... like the city, state, zip code.
And really all you really need now, I guess we can talk about this, is the zip code.
Because the zip codes aren't...
We don't have repeating zip codes in different states.
Correct.
The five digit zip code, they're in the United States.
Yep, they're all unique.
All unique.
So if you see the IP address, layer two...
Layer three.
IP is layer three.
Sorry.
IP address in layer three as...
Well maybe that's what I was going to say is that it was the MAC address in layer two.
Man that got confusing.
Never mind.
You could probably say city, state, zip is...
You can think of that as IP.
Your actual street address is the MAC.
Because the MAC is the unique identifier where the city and zip can technically all be a
shared resource.
Well I was trying to do like IP address...
Because an IP address inside of a network.
You know what I mean?
Like you have to get inside of the network before this IP address is actually what you're
talking to and that's through your router.
Correct.
Because the router has to have the external IP address.
Correct.
And this is partially because IPv4 has how many options?
You remember this off the top of your head?
Total IPs?
Oh boy.
I'm blanking on the total number but I know we finally used them all.
And that's the thing.
IPv6 is important now because of running out of IPv4 addresses and if you know how many
that is, like that's a big accomplishment.
Way to go world.
4.29 billion IPv4 addresses.
And that's not enough.
Not anymore.
So IPv6 is a thing.
Yes.
And so one of the ways that we've combated this is to have IP addresses like...
You have IP addresses inside of IP addresses.
And that's what your router is doing.
Would you like to know how many are in IPv6?
That's a lot.
I actually didn't know that this was a real number.
340 undecillion.
Undecillion?
U-N-D-E-C-I-L-L-I-O-N.
Yeah, that seems made up.
They were undecided so they just made it undecillion.
We don't actually know how big this number is so we're saying undecided.
Two to the 128th power.
That's a big number.
Just think of how many AI bots are going to be able to be born with their own independent
IP address.
Don't get me started on AI.
So I think I can make your analogy work though.
So in your house you have your router.
That router gets a unique IP address from your provider.
Inside of your router, multiple devices, multiple IPs, but again they have a unique MAC ID.
So going into your analogy, city, state, zip can still be considered the IP because the
nature that in your home router that public IP is shared.
So city, state, and zip, again that's that same shared resource.
Now to go beyond that, it needs the actual street address which is now your unique MAC
ID.
That's how you get that next layer in.
I'm going from the IP, now I'm going to the truly unique spot which is my actual home
address.
So I think that kind of completes the analogy.
I think the reason that I was saying still IP address on that was because you can have
different zip codes, you can have the same address used again which would be the IP address
not the MAC ID because those are always different.
Anyway, all that to say, it gets super confusing because there's layers and this onion stinks.
I'm going to stop talking because obviously I'm making this more confusing than it has
to be.
Talk to us about routers.
Are you saying the bear is kicking in already?
No.
Okay, so again, most of us know a router.
I go to Best Buy.
Only 7% by volume.
Only 7, the last one that we did was 10.
So you go to Best Buy and you say, I need a router.
They're going to give you a link sys, they're going to give you a D-link.
It's not just a router.
It's a router, it's a firewall, it's a switch, it's an access point.
But that's basically, it has the routing capability in it that it can route between multiple networks
and knows how to do it.
It knows how to keep track of all those IPs.
It learns those IPs exist on different ports so it can pass that off.
But in order to still communicate that, you still also have to have the MAC ID.
The IP is not necessarily good enough.
It's good enough at layer 3 to get you ultimately into the network that you need to be, but
you still need that layer 2 MAC to know where am I really going in the end.
Yeah, it's like a handshake.
So, you would do an ARP call, say I've got this IP, what's your MAC?
That kind of gets blasted out, responds back, it learns it.
Great.
Next time I don't have to ask where you are, I already know where to go.
You're at that IP address.
Yes.
You're there, delivered to that MAC ID, and Bob's your uncle.
Fred's your grandmother.
Yes.
So, thank you, routers.
Yes, routers are huge.
They're huge.
So, coming back then to the layer 3 switch.
Layer 3 switch.
So we'll talk about the church's network structure.
It's all unified, if anybody's out there wondering.
Don't hack us.
Yes, please don't.
Jesus is watching.
Please don't.
So, we have the Dream Machine SE.
Yes we do.
That is firewall.
That is router.
And it also does the routing.
And it also has a built-in switch.
It does.
So, it's a beefy version of what you would go buy for home.
We don't usually use it as a switch.
We have a switch in that building that will remain unnamed.
But it plugs into the switch port.
That's true.
So, there is some switching going on.
I didn't think about that.
There's one port being on that switch.
There is.
Everything else is going out the Fiber SFP, which essentially is a switch port as well.
Okay, you got me.
Yes.
So, that's how it's set up.
It's handling all the routing.
Now without going too far in the weeds here, the Pro switch that is in the grade school
building is capable of layer 3.
Yes it is.
So, if we ever wanted to offload, we could.
Yeah, and we did that on purpose when we bought it.
I don't remember all the details.
So something that happens is this church that we're at is not your typical church.
We exist on 130 something acres.
We have four buildings now.
Wait, one, two, three, four, ish.
Depends on if you count.
This one is separate from that one.
True.
And they're spread out, and the idea was that it would look more like a college campus than
your normal church, which I love.
It's great, and there's trees and a lake, and it's fantastic.
But it means that we're spread out, and part of being spread out is that the power goes
out on half of our campus and does not necessarily take down the other half.
And so the idea that we've done in multiple areas, as Chris is going to explain, is having
redundancy.
And so the idea was if we lose the student building or a building that will remain unnamed,
that certain gear is in, that the rest of the network can keep functioning.
There you go.
Anyway, so we needed a layer three switch.
Yes, so we've got that.
So too much information?
No, I think we're fine.
We didn't tell them where the keys are at.
So don't look under the mat.
Yeah, don't look under the mat.
The magic number is not the address of the building.
Oh my gosh, that'd be terrible.
Yes.
Oh boy, what it makes me think of the scene in Spaceballs.
One, two, three.
Yes, four.
One, two, three, four.
That's the same code as my luggage.
Make it back.
Remind me to change the code in my luggage.
Oh, what a movie.
Thank you, Millbrooks.
I mean, it's for so many things, but yes, for that as well.
Okay, so back, if I can remember where I was going with that thought, layer three.
So here we do have multiple networks.
We have our main network.
We have a guest network.
We have, there's another one.
Operations network.
There you go, operations network.
We have AV network.
AV.
We had the video, but I don't remember if we're still leveraging that one or not.
So you have all these networks.
You can break this apart.
You don't want everything on one giant network.
It gets too congested.
You have poor performance.
So when you get large enough, you've got to break it up.
So we created these smaller networks, also referred to as VLAN or virtual LAN.
Your router can handle that.
It goes, oh, you need to go there.
I'm going to route you over here.
And that's how you route between networks versus switching between ports to get to different
computers.
So now you can go crazy and you can over segment or hyper segment your network.
You said hyper segment.
And it's a term.
There you go.
And it's a thing.
You can totally go there if you want to do that.
But you're going to deal with all the overhead management that it may entail.
So you want to really try to right size your network.
Yeah, which we found out at one point we were undersized in our network.
And that's why we did this change.
And it was not easy.
No.
But it's nice to know that it's done.
Yeah.
Because now we're future proofed for a while.
That's the plan.
Depends on how much more the church keeps growing.
Let's not right now.
So that's what layer three does.
So you have switches that can handle that for you.
In our situation, the switch can offload that work off of the UDM, which frees up resources
on the UDM.
So if we ever found that the UDM was just like under taxed, we could immediately offload.
Which we did at one point also have that problem.
But that was on the previous UDM.
Yeah, there was a UDM that was made by Ubiquiti.
And I don't think they make it anymore.
No, it was the original UDM.
It was just underpowered.
Yeah.
Really struggled behind on the OS.
It just not good.
And it ultimately died due to a bad death storm.
With electricity and all kinds of not ones and zeros.
Yeah, it was bad.
So we got the SE and it's been great.
It has been great.
Special Edition, great.
I don't know.
What does the SE stand for?
No, it is Special Edition.
Oh my gosh.
That's terrible.
You're right.
Why don't be that guy.
But we could offload it, free up resources, and you're great.
And you can live within Unifi, you can have multiple devices or capable of layer three,
you just tell it where does it need to go.
And it takes care of it for you.
It's really nice.
Layer three.
Very important.
IPs, not Macs.
Not Macs.
Sorry.
Macs, layer two.
Layer two.
IPs do have, now I'm going to draw a blank.
Octets.
There it is.
Octets.
So everybody's typically familiar with IPv4.
192.168.1.1.
Each one of those is an octet.
What associates with that is a network mask.
The mask ultimately helps you take that number and know this is the network portion of it.
This is the host.
Subnet mask.
You see that on a menu somewhere.
Yes.
What is it asking for a mask for?
Yes.
Subnet mask.
Yeah, so depending on how big you need the network to be, talking about having the right
size network for the right size, you have a different number of octets that you can...
Well, you have four octets.
Sorry.
But you can play with...
You have a different number of...
You can play with the bits.
How many bits?
There's eight bits in an octet.
And depending on how you...
That's why it's called an octet.
Yes.
Eight.
An octagon of...
You can...
Never mind.
Don't say that.
That is the beer.
Yes.
There you go.
You can steal bits from an octet to have...
Increase the number of networks available, which inherently shrinks the number of...
No, let me back that.
Train up.
Yeah.
Fewer networks, fewer hosts, fewer networks, more hosts.
Yes.
As you steal bits to increase the number of networks, you're stealing the possible amount
of bits that are left for individual host IPs for your devices.
Yeah.
Because you're stealing going to the right.
As you steal going to the left, now you're increasing the number of host or IPs are available
but shrinking the total number of potential networks.
Is that clear as night?
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's a little bit strange because if you go all the way to the right,
does that make sense?
You can take...
252.252 or 255.255.255.
255.255.255.255.255.2.0 or 255.0.
So you're talking four 255s because you said go all the way to the right 255, 255, 255,
255.
Yeah.
Most of the time you've got 255, 255, 255.
Zero.
Yes.
So what you're referring to though, when you have four 255s, that is a broadcast address.
You can't use that.
Well, yeah.
Whereas if you have...
So like, yeah, that's a broadcast.
Let's talk about 255.255.255.0, which is what most people have on their personal subnet
mask or personal home internet subnet.
That matches your 192.168.1.whatever.
So with that 255.255.255, you know that 192.168.1 in this scenario, that is all the network.
That's all that's going to be.
That last dot, that dot zero, that's where you pull your IPs from for total number of
hosts.
Which is 254 options.
Yes.
Because dot zero is the network, if you will, and 255 is your broadcast for that whole network.
So you can use one through 254, which I guess is technically 253.
Yeah, I guess so.
So 253 hosts.
Because the broadcast, stupid broadcast.
But when you take the third 255 and you make it 252, what did you shrink?
Because what you just opened up was a ton of IP addresses.
You took away...
You shrunk the maximum number of networks that you can have, but you increased the number
of hosts that can exist on those networks.
So that's where you've got to be careful, because you can make your networks, the total
number is still huge for you.
But in the process, now you've made it possible that there could be so many active hosts on
one network that it's just saturated beyond belief.
Yeah, you definitely have to have the hardware necessary for it to spread out.
Yeah, and at some point, even your hardware can't keep up.
There are so many devices communicating at the same time, there's only so much bandwidth
on that one gig port.
You can saturate it and you're stuck.
Which we learned in that one video installation, that it only takes a handful of cameras to
flood a one gig port.
Wait, what are you talking about?
Oh, the NDI.
Oh my gosh.
I think it was like four, maybe six cameras at the most.
And it was completely flooded out of one gig port.
It was four.
It was literally beyond that, it was a nightmare.
It just wasn't going to work.
We had three cameras that could have been SDI, could have been HDMI, and we chose to
try to do NDI.
And we did three of those and then we had an extra one that we were going to use that
was going to be a portable camera.
That did not work.
That was too much for this little church to handle.
We tried.
Little church network.
So those are all wired in differently.
We messed around and found out, some people might say.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Anyway.
Okay.
Anything else in this room you want to talk about?
I know we're probably getting about to time.
We're probably at time, but like, I mean, there's just so much to talk about with that.
All right, just nerd question.
What's the biggest network?
Maybe I guess both directions.
What's the most number of hosts?
Now you're getting into...
That you've had.
No, no, no.
This is a personal experience.
I'm not asking for the theoretical.
I want to know what have you set up?
Most number of hosts, most number of networks.
This is where you're going to go.
This is how people get canceled.
Why?
Because this is such a highly debated topic.
Oh, whatever.
Oh, you say whatever.
Who's going to cancel us?
There's a guy listening.
Okay.
Wayne Lyon.
Amazing dude.
Works for Flare Data.
If you need somebody, those are the guys to go to.
He would tell me that as I, my network at Pine Cove is this right now, I have too many
hosts in my network.
I politely disagree.
I understand his rationale.
I get it.
I do.
I just happen to disagree.
So we don't hold it against each other.
He knows what we're doing.
I know what he needs to do.
He's not going to cancel us though.
No, but you know, this is like, I mean, this is like debating what's the best translation
of the Bible almost.
I mean, everybody has their preferred preference.
Whoa, buddy.
I mean, this can get, this can get heated with different people.
Because some are like, some are like, what are you talking about?
Yes.
Some would be like, you shouldn't have more than 253 hosts in an entire network.
What?
Some people take it to an extreme.
Some would say, okay, now you need to give a little bit, stop at 512.
If I remember correctly, that's about where Wayne is at.
Don't go larger than 512.
In a network.
In a single network.
So do they know how many?
Nevermind.
Well, that's, that's why we didn't go with it because we have so many people that could
be there that are sharing a subnet.
It was like, I need a little bit more than 512.
I'm going to stop at 1024.
And some people are like, whoa, buddy, that's too big.
I'm like, no, it's fine.
It works.
And then there are some that go way beyond that just because they're like, you know what?
I'm never going to have that many devices.
I have more than enough networks that I'm ever going to need.
I don't care what y'all's opinion are.
This works.
So the opinions are all over the place and people believe in their way of carving up
a network for performance.
Chris is 1024 the biggest you've gone?
No, I've actually worked on a network that had 4096.
We had 4096 networks.
If you cancel us, so help me.
I am going to.
Yes, I can, I can just imagine Wayne going, you had how many hosts on a network?
Yes, 4096 possible networks.
Each networks had the ability to have 4096 hosts.
No, say that again.
4096 different networks.
Each network can have 4096 individual hosts on each network.
Now I just got a little dizzy.
Yeah, then kind of throw up in my mouth.
If you had that many devices active on a network, forget it, that network is toast.
I get why people will be like, no, that's too much.
So at home, I don't have any network that's capable of more than 253.
But I'm also never going to have 253 active devices at home.
No.
But again, you got to figure out the size that you need for what you're trying to do.
Yes, right fit for what you're doing, but also allow growth.
Yeah, because you don't want to bang into the top of that.
That gets really complicated because then you got to do a big fix.
That happened a long time ago when we were in Columbus that time for staff retreat at
the Outback.
And we had everybody in the Outback dining hall, and we ran out of IP addresses.
That was the same event where body was given a hard time over it.
And we turned off his Google account.
No more fun for you.
And yes, and then he came out on stage and next time, guys, you know how great our IT
staff is.
It's one of those things.
Like I understand, man, you're muscular, you're a jock, you take any of us in a fight, whatever
that thing is, you're super macho.
I have all of the cards.
Look at what I can do.
Click everything that you want.
I have control over.
Yes.
Don't play that game.
Yes.
Don't make fun of them.
Don't make fun of the IT guy.
Yeah.
Take care of your IT guys.
Yeah, remember to tip your IT guy.
Yes.
We'll be here all week.
Someday you're going to need them and they're going to remember who is nice and who is mean.
I just had a Billy Madison flashback.
Okay.
All right.
Hey, man.
Thanks for hanging out.
Yeah, enjoyed it.
It's been a while.
Thanks for bringing the beer.
That was good.
That was so good.
I should have bought two.
So Premiere, Chameh Premier.
Chameh Premier, I can highly recommend.
I think it has our vote.
It's just, it's not, I agree with you.
It's drier and that's nice somehow.
It is.
Yep.
Still recommend the Grand Reserve too.
Sure.
Also good.
Support the monks.
Yes, support the monks, people.
That's going to be a war cry for us now.
Go Friar Tuck.
All right.
Thanks, brother.
All right.
Enjoyed it, man.
Appreciate it.
See you, everybody.
Hey, everybody.
Beer and Gear is a value for value podcast.
If you made it this far, then I would like to thank you for watching.
I'm sure you did too.
You're welcome.
We'll see you next time.
Bye.
He.
Oh, God.
He.
Greetings, positions.
Oh, God.