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Heywe't legislators, thanks for bootcamping.

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Hey everybody. Welcome to Be Here in Gear. Yeah. I'm doing good. How about you? Doing

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good. Can't complain. What are you drinking? Tonight is the rare canned experience. I am

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drinking Martin House, Box Slider, Tote's Texas Bach. So I don't know the next time

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you'll see me crack open a can. I'm a snob that way. Yeah, it doesn't happen very often.

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I was very quiet. Well done. I have what I'm going to go ahead and call a joke beer that

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a friend gave me. Had to happen to have it with me whenever it came time to record this.

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And it is a Jungling Hershey's Porter. Okay. I have not seen their Hershey's Porter. So

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neither had I. I did not know it was a thing. My friend who gave it to me was making a joke

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about how I always say I'm not really a coffee drinker. I drink caffeinated chocolate milk

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is what I drink. So if it's mostly chocolate milk and then you pour a little bit of coffee

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into it, then yeah, I can drink that. That's fine. So he was joking about how I should

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try the chocolate beer and see if I felt the same way about it. And I don't. It's not the

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same. It's not. So how strong is the chocolate? Pretty strong. I'm not going to lie to you.

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It's borderline it like and it's not. So if you've had Jungling before, like this is not

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a stout. I know it says Porter on the bottom of it. I'm not. This is this tastes more like

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you've had. I know that you've had because you like dark beer. You've had a Porter or

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something or stout or something like that that you had like, oh, that's kind of you

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can kind of have the like hint of chocolate. Like you have the note of chocolate inside

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of it. This is more like a fizzy chocolate drink. Fizzy lifting drink. Yeah. I mean,

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there's definitely beer inside of it, but it's only four point seven percent alcohol.

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It's a combination of really chocolatey and kind of thin. So I don't really know how to

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like I'm not hating it. I don't like want to, you know, like if I get like an IPA or

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something that's really fruity or flowery, flowery, especially fruity, I can kind of

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deal with. But flowery, I can't handle beer that tastes like some sort of hand washing

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thing. And I think you know what I'm talking about. Have you ever had one of those where

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you're like, oh, gosh, like that's hand sanitizer. Yeah, I just drank hand sanitizer. I have to

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stay away from IPA. I just I just can't do that. That's a bummer. That one's not so good

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because like I've had some of the chocolate porters and the double chocolate porters and

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they have hints of chocolate, but not enough that it's overpowering. Yeah. Well, I think

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because those are normally so smooth, you know, it's almost chocolate kind of goes with

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that smoothness. I think I think that because this is just a little it's not I'm not I'm

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not saying that it's the worst thing I've ever drank because it's not it's not even

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the worst thing I've had on this show. But it I'm not sure I'm spending money on it.

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I'll just put it that way. Okay. Well, I guess you've been sure that we're not getting free

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cases of the beer. Now, if you only wants to send us free stuff, I would take that.

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I just please don't send the Hershey's Porter. Well, that's a bummer. Yeah, I guess for us

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probably still the record for the worst was the was it the dinosaur? What was that one?

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Yeah, I did not like that. The true vines. Whatever it was in the dragons and dinosaurs.

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That's what it was. Yeah. Yeah, I did not like that. No. All right. Well, no. And I

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like a lot of true vine stuff. So again, I'm not hating on you true vine. I come there

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and drink your beer. Yeah. Well, I mean, not all of them are going to be a winner. We're

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gonna that's kind of the whole idea is it just kill constantly keep trying to find something

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new. See what we like. See what we don't. Maybe help some people discover what I get

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that they don't know that they may like as well. That's true. And if you if you like

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Jungling a lot and you think you know what I could probably eat like a Hershey's bar

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while I was drinking this, then you're really going to like Jungling Hershey's Porter. Okay.

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That's what I would say. Well, I would say the one that I've got is not too bad definitely

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reminds me a little bit of Shiner. Which is in a bottle, but founded at the trusty Walmart.

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Way to go Walmart. Yeah. Never know what you're gonna run into sometimes. You remember when

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you remember when Tyler didn't have any alcohol in it? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I was

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not that long ago. No, no, honestly. No, it wasn't. I keep thinking that we're gonna wake

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up one day and they're gonna go the rest of the way and you're gonna get all the things

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liquor in the in Smith County and in Tyler. Probably not. I think it's a matter of time.

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I've always said I've always said that this Tyler would be a great minor league baseball

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town if they had more freedom with alcohol because I mean you you would just need to

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but it like I think this like a minor league team would do great here. But you know, well

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we had the one but it just didn't really kind of do too well. I didn't know about that.

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What is that? The rough was it the Roughnecks? What was it? We had because they played at

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the Mike Carter field. Did they? Yes. Let me see if I'm trying that real quick. Wildcatters.

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I'm sorry. We had the Wildcatters. I didn't even know that was a thing. Founded in 1994.

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I didn't know it was. Okay, well I would say if I didn't know it was a thing then probably

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it was before I got here which means it was definitely before there was alcohol. Oh yeah,

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there was no alcohol then. Strongest drink you got then was Dr. Pepper. I mean don't

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get me wrong. I like Dr. Pepper while I'm watching baseball. Oh yeah. But it's hard

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to beat beer and hot dog for a lot of people. True. Very true. Anyway. Hey, what are we

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talking about? Yeah, let's shift gears. Let's we're gonna try to dig into a particular subject.

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I'm gonna hold on with both hands and try to hang on with John as he goes through this.

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You're gonna be talking compression. Yes. Yes, not compression for fittings or cars

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or any of that, but compression for audio which will run into limiting and I think we

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talked about we'll get into normalization how that plays in it. Really kind of wanting

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to hear you John kind of get into why to use compression when you know is there a reason

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to not use compression on things and then obviously the settings have different names

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depending upon manufacturer but there's some general accepted terms. Attack, release, ratio,

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threshold. Threshold. Those are kind of some commonly accepted terms for what you're doing

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with various elements of compression to try to improve audio. So I'm gonna turn the floor

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over to you and let you run with it and I may just chime in as long as we stay in the

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kiddie pool where my knowledge is at. Well, I'm sure we will because you keep saying I

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know a whole lot about this. I have a wide knowledge of this. I don't I would not say

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it's super super deep but it is pretty cool to know about why we use things and general

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uses for things and everything like that. It's funny about compression. You were saying

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not talking about mechanics or fittings or anything like that but if you think about

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it we use the term for what we're about to talk about in audio. We use the term compression

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because I mean it makes sense when you already know what the compression term means everywhere

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else. You know there's a general understanding with compression that you are putting limits

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on either side of something. You're pushing something in. You're trying to squeeze something

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actually is a lot of times compression will have funny squeeze name like compressors,

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audio compressors and whatever will have funny squeeze names and things like that. Compressors

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are used all over the place in audio. They've been used for a really long time. I mean you

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think about the need for them arising simply from the idea that your ear is designed to

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hear things from the world around you in a spatial you know the new spatial audio is

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like huge now for both for speakers and for headphones and things like that. The reason

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like we don't we don't we don't really like everybody's kind of going crazy about this

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but it's because that's how our ears are designed to hear everything. Our ears are designed

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to be able to hear things behind us and in front of us and they're designed to be able

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to distinguish between the things that we see like what is making that noise. It's like

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a pinpoint accuracy that we have. You take your ears for granted a lot for what they

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can do for you and there's this huge space that they're coming out of. Well when you

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record anything whether or when you put anything through a audio system I'm going to say that

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because you may not be recording you may just be transmitting audio in a live sense and

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there's still a reason to use compression there. When you record something or when you

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transmit audio through an audio system in any way you got to remember that you're taking

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all of those like whatever inputs you have you're taking those and you're then trying

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to send them out either through like a you know a PA speaker which may have big drivers

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on it and big woofers and all these you know subwoofers and all that or you may be coming

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through like your tiny radio speakers or even smaller like your headphones or even smaller

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your earbud speakers and you got to remember like you're taking a lot of audio that's being

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recorded you're taking even if they're in a recording room like you're taking the space

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of that audio and you're trying to make it come out of a tiny speaker and so to do that

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and have it be intelligible there's a thing that we have to use called compression. There's

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a lot of people that have hated on compression over the years I'll say that because there

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is an I mean if you're an audiophile you know there is kind of an unnaturalness to it because

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of what I just talked about and that your ears aren't really designed to be to hear

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compressed knowledge or knowledge to hear compressed audio they're designed to hear

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the full picture full spectrum but if you do that then yeah the full spectrum the full

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and the full dynamic spectrum that's the other part is it's not just the 20 Hertz to 20

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kilohertz that your ears are really designed to operate with inside of but they the amplitude

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of that those Hertz kilohertz you're designed to hear large ranges of DB now listening to

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something that has really loud and really quiet DB like over and over and over again

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is really exhausting to your ears you notice this at the at the airport not well I mean

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not at the airport as much anymore because most of them are so insulated inside of it

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but I remember like hearing jets take off and how loud that is and then how quietly

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the person next to you is talking in and and your ear is designed to be able to do that

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speakers not so much designed for that and not so much designed for the intelligibility

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that we talked about so this thing comes along this effect comes along called compression

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where we basically we take what we want to hear and we give it a bottom and we give it

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a top and we push down on the wave drawing with my hands like y'all can see me we push

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down on the wave the amplitude of the wave not the frequency of the wave that's important

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to know the difference of but the amplitude of the ways we're pushing down on that until

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they fit within a certain area and that helps with transmission I don't know if you've ever

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listened to somebody or record either a recording of something or maybe even a someone live

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I'm just coming through a speaker if you can if you can really like I can understand them

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when they're talking loudly but when they get really quiet it's just really hard to

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understand what they're saying if there's no compression on them then what happens is

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you've got a system that is optimized for the upper part of that audio range and not

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for the lower part if you've got a system that you can really hear when they're talking

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quiet and then when they talk loud it's like it's it sounds distorted it sounds garbled

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it sounds whatever then you've got a system that's optimized for that lower dB that lower

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range of audio and it's it's peaking out at the top so in order to you know we this is

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kind of a fun side note you ever seen the movie shoot it had the Irish singer songwriter

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and once is it once I think it's once it's got an Irish singer songwriter I'm gonna have

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to look it up so I don't make sure that I'm not yeah it's called once it's from 2007 Irish

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singer songwriter and I think like it's I can't remember where she's from it's got to be Eastern

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European but two singer songwriters actually and they're just going through their life

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and they meet and there's just you know honestly a little bit weird of a story about them but

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the funny part is that the movie is not like it it may be loosely based on somebody's life

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or his life or something like that but it's really just an excuse for these two incredible

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songwriters to be in the same space and to put their musical abilities together and that's

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also kind of the story of it is just that this happen stances but they end up right

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recording a song together or actually a whole album together and the audio engineer at the

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end of all the recording he's like he totally doesn't he thinks is a waste of his time and

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then they start going and he's like oh my gosh this is real and so he starts like going

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crazy and trying to make it all work and make it sound good well not make it sound good

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but record how good it sounds and then at the end of all that he kind of like collapses

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in his chair with them you know there's a montage of course of them recording all these

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songs and he kind of collapses in his chair with them at the end and is like okay now

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we got to do the crappy speaker test and they basically take their song that they've recorded

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and they go play it in a car like they drive their car to the beach and they listen to

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the song that they've recorded on the car speakers going to the beach now why is that

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important and why am I talking about compression and then talking about that compression is

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one of those things that if you have you know the best spatial audio headphones that you

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can design if you have a you know Dolby digital surround sound seven point nine point you

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know to what I don't know some like ridiculousness speaker system around you compression is not

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what you're worried about no you're probably worried about there being too much compression

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because you it's it's creating the full fidelity you're looking for full fidelity the reason

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that you would use compression is to kind of simplify the audio signal you think about

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radio being so big for so long you know before TVs we're we're enthralled with radio and

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radio waves and everything like that well radios have to be the signal going out to

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radios has to be compressed and it has to be tuned and it has to be able to sound good

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over a wide array of speakers and what's being used and to be intelligible and so really

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you know audio engineers at that time that are focused on what they're recording and

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everything they're really trying to make sure that you can hear the most important things

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and so they're compressing the crap out of those things in order to make sure that that

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area stays where it's supposed to to be able to be widely received and I understand like

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again there's this like dirty word with compression like there's this like compression is the

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enemy or something like that it is a tool that yes when it had to be used to make something

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kind of sound ugly we listen to old recordings of something and you're like wow that's that

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kind of sounds bad well compression was being used to overcome the shortcomings of the speaker

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it was also being used to overcome the shortcomings of the microphone because if you weren't directly

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in the microphone it was a very faint sound well you would compress then the sound that

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was coming out so that the really loud what was right in front of the microphone was not

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overpoweringly loud then the thing that was a little bit further away from the microphone

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and this is where I'll talk a little bit about live audio because there's a lot of times

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that in live audio I'm using compression when I'm mixing live audio I'm using compression

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kind of for that reason either audio like for a person speaking I'm using it because

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they can't regulate either their distance from the microphone well I'll say it first

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either because they can't regulate their yeah their distance from the microphone or their

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volume into the microphone and those are two different things like you stay the same distance

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from your microphone but you get really loud or you shout which was the classic can't problem

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everybody would hold at when you know at summer camp everybody holds the microphone right

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up to their mouth and then whether or not they're whispering into it to just say like

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some little funny joke that they want everybody to hear or they're screaming at everyone to

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like get the energy level up yeah compression is what makes those two things work in the

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same space if you've got somebody that's pulling the microphone away from them and then pushing

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it close to them like if they just have no discipline with their microphone compression

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is going to be your friend in order to keep their highs down and their lows still up enough

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so let's then talk about threshold yeah so threshold is kind of the bottom threshold

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is where do I want the compression to start correct everything else may be true to its

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DB right yeah yeah that's kind of your I was gonna say you're kind of setting the threshold

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you're setting the magic number for all these things to start to happen yes to start to

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happen it nothing is going to get compressed until you reach the threshold I mean it's

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I feel like it's aptly named for what it is ratio what is ratio ratio is if if you see

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compression as the amount of force down on the upper end of a volume level ratio is house

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or how much pressure then you're putting on it correct that makes sense yeah yeah like

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one to one is a straight line yeah one to one you're really not compressing anything

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if I understand it correctly compressing whereas when you go two to one three to one four to

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one and so on what you're saying and correct me if I'm wrong for every one DB over you're

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compressing it down for or have I got that reversed when you're looking for every one

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DB yeah to get the line for every one DB you are pressing yeah oh over the threshold you're

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compressing yeah I guess that's the case if it's if the D I gotta I gotta do the line

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in my head so that I can see it on the graph it for every one DB that you're going up it's

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pressing two DB over it's trying to push slightly that's yes that would be in a two to one ratio

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two to one and then three to one is more four to one is more or so you see that line turn

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more severely on your end usually that I'm saying it as a line because that's usually

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the way you see it represented on a on the graph of compression if if if amplitude and

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time are over well amplitude and what the other one be it's not time in a graph of amplitude

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and oh shoot well I'm gonna have to look that up for our next episode because I can't remember

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what the what the other axis is on it but it's you draw a straight line or like a diagonal

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line going X equals Y X equals Y X equals Y two to one is if X is if Y is one X is two

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if you know and so on yeah that's right yeah so that that curvature of that line and the

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bend in that line is usually referred to as the knee correct and for obvious reasons you

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can see why that would be the the you know that pivot point would be referred to as a

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knee and you can make that knee softer which means that it is more gentle curved and which

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usually gives it a more natural sound yeah if it's if it's a sharper or a harder knee

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then then it sounds a little bit unnatural and the more curved the more forgiving I guess

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your ears can be towards it also just in general the more the higher the ratio the more heard

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the compression is going to be correct as a general rule spoken word is like three to

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one compression and that's usually what people are looking at and then you know if it's just

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if it needs a little bit of you really got a shatter on you if you're really trying to

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tame this guy down then that's you may need to up it what are the other ones that you're

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talking you said attack out the two and so only once we can attack would be how I was

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gonna say once we can play it will probably be at your time limit that we're trying to

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hit at for tonight okay well attack would just be the how quickly the compression happens

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and release is more how how long that that compression is held again if a compression

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if a if compression happen or if it the release is the one that I really care about most of

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the time if it's held too long especially with speaking you you hear it and we're talking

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about milliseconds for both of these your your ear it's amazing how fast it hears things

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like this but those those two are kind of tied in my mind the attack how how quickly

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you want like how and and I guess for attack you you should be asking yourself how how

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long can the ear sustain above the compression that I want or how long can the ear not sustain

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how long can the ear tolerate there you go above the compression that I want before I

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really needed to kick in and the sustain is how long or how short can the ear tolerate

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the over compression that can happen those things so like that let me let me ask you

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since we're talking about for spoken there's a kind of a rule of thumb of ratio so do you

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have or is there kind of a general rule of thumb on for attack and release or does it

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depend on what you're compressing I think it would depend on what you're compressing

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again you want pretty darn short on spoken word because it's so dynamic you I mean just

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in in that phrase that you just heard me say it's so dynamic that K if if if I if I have

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somebody who is really really strong with plosives or with different things like that

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I may want to compress them you know even in kind of a separate mindset I may want to

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compress them a little bit because of things like that just to tame the way that their

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voice sounds because if if I've got a really sensitive microphone and you've got somebody

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who's clicking a lot or has has a really sharp sharpness to them that the enunciation is

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not what they're gonna have a hard time with you know like the the clarity is not going

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to be difficult for them but instead of this is this gets really tricky because we got

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people that will EQ the crap out of something and never touch the compressor and we have

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people that have compressed the crap out of something and never touch the EQ EQ and compressor

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and maybe this is what we should talk about in the second one for a while is EQ and compression

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go hand in hand if you have one without the other you're probably missing something and

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so there's there's things like like the sibilance and things like that that if you just compress

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the audio a little bit if you compress it and you tighten up the release to where it's

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a shorter amount of time and I'm I mean sub 10 milis I mean it's it's even I don't know

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it's that's a tough one like that's one of the ones that I'm I'm listening to what I'm

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doing and I'm turning the knob as I'm doing it because it's just like it's so dependent

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on your ear about being able to hear so I'm I'm I'm not gonna try to tell you how how

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long it should be but you I mean just for the record like you can hear you can hear

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the difference between I think latency usually we're talking about like in five milliseconds

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if something is more than five milliseconds later milliseconds like fraction guys fractions

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of a second you can hear that your ear can distinguish the difference and that's a normal

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ear there are people that are like three milliseconds and they're out like they they can't like

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they can't handle being able to hear three milliseconds off and it's like all right you're

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you're a special person but at the same time like you we talk a lot about that there's

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a lot of talk about this with with video conversations like people will say like bad video can be

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forgiven if there's good audio I've heard that a lot bad audio cannot be forgiven your

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ears like your eyes especially when it comes to screens are so used to seeing things a

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little bit soft a little bit like oh well like you get used to the color grading that's

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happening on something or you the even the white balance or something like that like

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that that's not exactly how I would like it to be but your brain gets used to that very

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easily if audio keeps being off your brain I mean yes there is a deafness that can happen

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if there's like a low hum or something like that but if if somebody's voice doesn't sound

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right or looks wrong with their voice like your your brain will have a hard time making

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sense of that and it will keep telling you about it and it just it shows up in the form

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of irritation you will find yourself just being angry yes at it you may not even know

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why you're angry but holy crap yeah there's nothing make it stop watching a video and

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you can see that the audio and video are out of sync it just yeah I know that may not quite

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be what you were going for but that's no that's right that's definitely part of it I literally

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will stop the video because yeah because my brain or stop looking at it if I'm really

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interested in what they're saying yeah yeah my brain just can't do both that and it's

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like okay we're done now yeah right anyway this is super simple I appreciate you letting

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me cut it short I gotta get home to my family but no problem I'm glad we were still able

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to make it yeah so I think we hit some of the key concepts there without going too far

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into the weeds so yeah maybe on the next one we'll have more time and go in a little bit

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deeper and you can definitely hit on why the EQ and the compression go hand in hand and

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are necessary well I'd love to hear any questions that you would have about it yeah the only

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thing that I'm actually gonna look and see if there's gonna say the only thing I could

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throw out real quick and this may not be so much compression as it may be limiter the

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example I've had that came to mind when you were talking about the differences in the

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levels yes sorry TV commercials you'll be watching the show yeah at the commercial and the commercial

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is just like hey and you're like whoa back off and then the next commercial will be so

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that you're like cranking the volume up and the next commercial is boom blaring back in

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your ears and you're cranking the remote back down so I don't know if that's more now TVs

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do limiting to stop that or TVs are in stations in general trying to do more compression to

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try to prevent that when you're watching TV well we talked about normalization and stuff

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like that we can talk about that next time yeah there's and and you see it like even

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you you talk you were talking about different like different medias coming to you or different

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creator I don't even know what to call it that different producers different you're

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getting the media from all these different people correct and and all of it comes together

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and it gets put on the web and become web it gets put on the TV station and it's it

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is vastly different yes we experience this in in radio all the time we experience it

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in TV and we experience it yeah we experience it and and stuff like that all the time where

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the the levels are just different and there there are like there's in order to not send

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audio through another processor most of the time that's like that's the that's why this

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is happening is that because they're they're not then sending what's being sent to them

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through anything that is then regulating that up and down of it but we didn't even talk

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about like inside of a movie if you've ever been watching a movie and you're you're like

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I can't hear what they're saying and then all of a sudden there's an explosion you're

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like I don't have ears anymore because I was so loud that range that they're that the movie

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production is giving you is greater than the range of your speakers I would call that the

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tenet and so you wanted yeah the tenet effect you wanted more compression yes what the theater

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wanted was higher fidelity yes they wanted it to be more like you are in the room with

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what is happening then you know your your speakers can even handle it was made for a

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big system yeah and your little you know tiny sub one inch speakers on your TV aren't aren't

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doing that yeah so and it's just another reason to go by more speakers yes all right John

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let's get you out of here get you home to your family and it's getting late I appreciate

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it man I love hearing you talk about this stuff I hope everybody out there isn't gonna

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enjoy this as well and we'll see if we spun hey if I made a mistake why don't you tell

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us yeah hey Jason in the sub screen so all right man there you go John oh man I don't

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want I don't want Jason critiquing my work that dude is way smarter than I am all right

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man all right I'll see you next time sounds good

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okay