Hey there, welcome back to Beer and Gear.
We are having some technical difficulties today.
Just a little bit.
Just a little bit, but it's gonna be great.
I'm super excited about this opportunity to work through all of the tech stuff that we all have to work through every once in a while.
It's gonna be fine.
Yeah, third time's a charm.
Third time is the charm.
Um, yeah.
How you doing, Chris?
Other than the technical stuff, I'm doing pretty good.
I have a freshly mowed and weeded yard.
That's always a nice thing to see.
Yeah, it is.
Um, it just, it's like, it's like when you clean your car or mow your grass, everything feels just, just a little bit nicer.
Just right.
Just that one less thing.
Yes.
Yeah, my only real concern for tonight is it's the homecoming dance that Victoria is going to.
This is a first.
So, um, we're not going with a boy, so that's a win for me.
Oh, good.
Uh, but obviously there's going to be boys there.
Yeah, well, we can't kill them all.
No, but I'm realizing I may need to invest in more guns.
I have an insufficient supply.
Insufficient supply for having a little girl.
I also have a little girl.
Yes.
But I have not had to deal with the homecoming dance yet.
Yeah, the game did.
I had some sort of like social or something at school, um, the other day for her.
And I was like, I don't even know what that means.
Yeah, at that age, who knows?
I know we went to the homecoming game last night and it looked like Lee through some crazy events was going to hang on, but they lost with five seconds to go.
Oh no.
Yeah, it's now that makes them 0 and 4 on the season.
So I mean, at least they're being consistent like my Chicago Bears.
Oh.
So, but it's always roughly you lose your homecoming.
Yeah.
We haven't talked to Bears.
Uh, for good reason.
Yeah, right now I don't want to talk Bears.
They, they, they broke my heart.
They did.
I can understand that.
Like, for sure.
But at least you're not the Jets right now.
That's true.
That is true.
Spend all that money and you're back to Wilson.
Back to, well, I think they're going, um, what's his name?
The other guy.
Anyway, I don't know.
Football.
Football sport.
Um, all right.
So what are you, what are you drinking?
I'm drinking old chub.
We talked about it last time and I had to go get some old chub, um, because, and it's
just so good.
Um, it's a Scotch ale, um, from Oscar blues up in Longmont, Colorado.
And I highly recommend I'm going to take a drink.
From the can.
I'm a bit of a weird looking can now.
I will say they, they tried to, because it's a Scotch ale, they tried to go like, Hey,
now we've got a plaid.
And I'm like, no, don't do that because it used to be just a green can and it was awesome
looking and this is weird looking.
So what are you going to do?
Plaid is ruined for me because when I see it, I think of space balls.
Space balls.
So they've gone plaid.
They've gone to plaid.
So I'm a bit of a snob.
I prefer a bottle, although I will drink from a can.
I have founders Porter.
Founders Porter.
It's pretty good.
Which is a Porter.
It is a Porter.
Yes.
And a previous discussion tonight, we were trying to determine, does it fall under an
L or is it a standalone Porter?
Yeah.
I think it's a, it's a Scotch Porter.
I don't know, but it, I don't know what the differences are.
I have, I have friends for that.
I don't, I don't pay attention to those details.
I'm the guy who you ask how the Apple event went on Tuesday.
So what I'm seeing online, it says that a Porter is darker and more full body.
Full bodied.
I like it when they talk about liquids, like they are women.
Yeah.
This is a full bodied.
Yes.
Okay.
So before we get into what I hope we're going to be able to talk about tonight, depending
more technical is I did want to throw something out, an idea that hit me in the shower of
all places on.
We're the best ideas.
So obviously I knew that the event happened, didn't pay attention to it.
Still haven't really seen it.
No, there's new phones and new watches.
That's about the extent of what I know, but I've had, I've had people at work coming up
to me saying, Hey, I'm getting the new iPhone.
I'm trading my phone in.
They're giving me a thousand dollars for my phone.
And I'm like, wait, what, what model do you have?
Most of them have a 13.
And I'm like, wow.
Okay.
A grand kind of hard to pass that up.
So I get home, confirm my wife has an 11 go on to AT&T.
How much are they going to give?
They were going to give $830 for her iPhone 11.
Nice.
And I'm sitting here going, where's the win here?
AT&T gets you into a contract, but that doesn't mean they necessarily get any more money.
There has to be a cat down.
Yeah.
And I've been thinking and thinking and thinking.
And then it was like, Oh, wait.
They talked about the fact that they were using recycled materials.
And so I'm sitting here going, did they work a deal either out with AT&T or with some
recycler to bring these back because there's even more value to be stripped out of the
phone and these materials.
And so AT&T is giving you a chunk upfront.
They're turning around and selling it either direct to Apple or some middleman.
And then they're going to kick it all back.
And that's how they're trying to reclaim all these materials to be more green.
I mean, it's a good question.
I don't know exactly how they're doing what they're doing, but it would make sense to
me that if you're talking about, we need to recycle more, we need to use these materials
that we already have and stop mining for it and everything like that, that you have to
get the old phones back for your toast.
Yep.
So it just, it'd been bugging me.
I'm like, why are they giving so much money for an old phone?
And I will tell you, I think that, I don't want to say this out loud, but I think that
they could give less and still get the number back that they're talking about.
Oh, I'm sure.
I'm sure.
But I mean, I was looking at, you know, them like they're giving me a thousand dollars.
The phone I want calls 1300.
It's not bad.
No, I mean, it's, it's hard to say, Hey, don't do that.
I mean, that's, that's a, that's a steal.
And so some folks are like, I'm just going to pay the 300 bucks and then I'm out clean.
And then some are saying, well, they're going to just pay it out over two years.
And my bill's going up a whole five bucks.
Yeah, that's, that's not bad, but they are, I mean, they, they're trying to go more carbon neutral for, I think their, their goal is 2030 for being completely carbon neutral.
Okay.
So they're trying on the phones to be more carbon neutral.
They're saying that the watch now, at least the, not, I don't think they said it about the ultra.
I think, I think they haven't said it about the ultra yet, but the other series nine, I think is what we're at.
The series nine watch is carbon neutral.
Like they've, they've covered it, it's production for being carbon neutral, which is a feat.
And I will say, if you watch the, whatever it's called, keynote, the announcement, they, I mean, they do like a whole skit.
And I walked in in the middle of it and Chad Larsh, one of our friends who I watched it with, he was like, you walked in at a bad time.
It's like they're having a conversation with mother earth.
And I was like, okay, I'm out.
I heard that section was about 45 minutes long.
It's just terrible.
I mean, I understand, like this is what they are, is their highest priority.
So of course you do something like this to some of us.
It, it smacks a lot of, um, I don't know.
It just, it sounds, yeah.
It's I don't know what you want to call it.
It's just, it's a little bit disingenuous is what it feels like, but you know, I'm sure that's the way they feel about Christians all the time.
I'm sure I know on the carbon offset to me, it was fuzzy math.
Cause something about a forest somewhere and they're using the carbon sequestration.
There's my big word for the day.
Sequestration.
That the tree can do to offset the carbon.
So it's not that they're reducing the so-called carbon pollution.
We'll have that conversation another day.
But it's just that, you know, Hey, these trees over here collect this much and we've paid X number of dollars to have lay claim to these trees.
And now we're neutral.
Yeah.
So they're going to make sure those trees don't go away.
Yes.
Until, you know, nature takes them.
Yes.
Let me tell you what, like, let's talk about how we don't clear forest anymore.
And now we have huge fires in California.
It's fine though. I think that's not related at all.
Anyway, this is not the beer and political conversation you're looking for.
Correct.
Yeah. Let's talk about podcast.
Okay. Yeah.
I wanted to talk a little bit about some of the history as I see it.
I'm sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
Different people see it from different angles.
Sure.
But I think, I think you're a student.
I'm really a student of this and so having an actual student of it makes that better.
Potentially. But I mean, you're the, you're the actual practitioner.
This is only my third show.
You've got a few under your belt.
Yeah, but I just record a meeting.
Anyway, go ahead.
Okay. So yeah, I want to talk a little bit about that.
I think it's really good to be able to get that into the conversation.
You know, I think it's really good to get the right kind of people involved and then kind of get into what is currently called podcasting 2.0,
which is really what kind of got me going in the last few years.
Yeah. Getting really excited about podcasting and where it's going.
So I know a lot of people.
I think it was an event.
Was it possibly D3 where they were talking about that?
Because I know he had a couple of people on stage where he was making that announcement or it may have been an early Apple event,
but he was announcing Apple podcasts.
Yeah, I remember.
And he played a specific podcast and dropped some language.
And what are you going to do? It's live.
And not only that, he was dropping language about his Mac messing up, which is just salt in the woods.
It's just beautiful though.
Yes. So when I go back to the beginning, you know, obviously podcasting isn't podcasting without RSS.
I mean, that's what it's all built on.
So just some quick things to throw out there just kind of just to know RSS 1.0 was December of 2000.
So 23 years. Yeah.
23 years.
To me, RSS is like where so many other things started.
Yes.
Like it feels like people were doing RSS feeds well before they were in the internet was cool.
Yeah, because it was getting baked into various blogs or whatever you were doing.
And you could subscribe via RSS and know when there was a new post.
Yeah.
So RSS.
I remember all the blogs.
Do you remember?
Oh my gosh.
What was the one everybody did there for?
Blogger?
Zanga?
Zanga? I don't know that I knew Zanga.
Was it Zanga? Oh my gosh.
I think it was Zanga.
Anyway.
All right. Go ahead.
Okay. So RSS 2.0 was 2009.
Okay.
And so again, that's still a ways back.
And so nothing has really really been done.
So in terms of going back to the origins,
you know, I kind of go back to Dave Leiner and Adam Curry.
Some people may know Adam Curry from MTV, depending on your age.
Yeah. Although he doesn't have that hair anymore.
Doesn't he? I don't know. I haven't seen it.
No, he doesn't. It's really short.
Oh man.
So basically he saw the introduction of the original iPod
and he connected that to his days in radio and going,
that's a listening device.
You can now bring audio to this.
We need to figure this out.
And so he had found Dave Weiner with his music radio land,
which was basically you could go online,
you could do some basic coding and put some software together.
And so he, Adam makeshift through something together,
sent it to Dave Weiner and said, Hey, here's what I'm trying to do.
Dave Weiner looked at what he had done and he said,
Hey, I'm going to fix this and please don't ever use my software again.
He just didn't, he did.
He was just so appalled by how he put things together.
So, so basically Adam Curry put together iPodder.
If you've ever heard of that, it was one of the first,
if not the first piece of software that would run,
that would see that there was a new show and automatically download that for you.
And so really that was the first.
At least that I've been able to find.
So there may be some others, but it was the idea.
Even back then our internet connections were slow.
So it was great to have this piece of software that you're asleep.
It sees there's a new change.
It downloads the change.
You wake up the next day and oh, wow, look, I have a new episode to listen to.
Yeah. I remember doing that with like updates that you would always do updates overnight.
Oh, yeah.
And now a lot of computers, like that's what they're trying to do with all Apple stuff is that they,
they will, oh, just type in your passcode.
We'll do it overnight while you're plugged in.
That makes sense.
But it used to be you did that because that was the number of hours that it took to get the update done.
Yeah, I feel like 2000, I may have still had dial-up.
I don't know if I had a cable modem yet.
So I could be wrong, but if I had cable modem, it was crazy slow by today's standards.
So in 2001, here you go, Chris, sorry.
I went to start my bachelor's degree in Oklahoma and we had cable in the dorm.
And that's how we did like the, you know, halo land parties.
There you go.
Well, actually you didn't have to do because they were land parties.
Anyway, but when we started doing, when halo started to be online,
where you could actually do it across the interwebs, that was all Caleb, Caleb cable.
Anyway.
Okay.
So, so he, somebody out there may know something older, but this is far back because I can at least find it.
So he had an iPodder and so prior to that Apple event, spell iPodder real quick.
I P O D D E R.
Okay.
Cause I was, I was hearing you say Potter, like P O T T E R like Harry.
I was like, that doesn't make any sense.
No, no iPodder could he took it from the iPod.
iPod.
So going back to that event where Steve Jobs was announcing it just before he went on stage,
he actually met Adam Curry backstage because he, he already knew he was introducing podcasts.
That was decided, but he put the meeting together with Adam Curry to say,
Hey, you're, you're kind of seen as the person of podcasting.
I want your blessing.
And I understand that you have an index and I would love to have your index to help us build out our index of shows.
And so of course he was excited.
Yeah, sure.
Here you go.
Have my whole, here's my index, you know, here's my show.
And so that was back in the very, very early days.
You're talking.
Oh, four, oh, five, maybe a little behind that.
Cause he was doing, um, oh, now I can't think of his podcast, daily source code.
If anybody's heard of that.
So he gives anyways, he gives jobs his blessing and then jobs goes out and does that announcement.
And the show he happens to play was the most recent episode of Curry show.
And he was having trouble with his Mac and he just drops it.
My Mac is messing up like a blank and you're just like, oh, we're live at a event.
It is what it is.
So that was obviously the big announcement of podcasting.
And then, you know, he had a little bit of a surge for a while and then YouTube happens.
Yeah, man.
Changing everything.
Yes.
And then podcasting just kind of falls to the wayside.
You know, and so there's nothing going on.
People are still podcasting.
I mean, you've, I mean, some of your earliest podcasters would be Adam Curry and of all
people, even Joe Rogan.
Joe Rogan has been at it for ever.
Arguably, probably the biggest podcast of the moment.
So, so anyways, podcasting goes quiet and you don't really hear anything about podcasting
until about 2014.
And that was the release of the serial podcast.
And that thing podcast blew everything up.
Yes, it exploded and then all of a sudden podcasting is fun again.
It's cool again.
Hey, yeah, we're all doing podcasts.
And the next thing you know, everybody's got a show, including us, including us.
And I will say like we were pretty particular about not particular specific about this when
we started and when we like we were doing this for us.
Yeah.
This is a hangout time for grown men who have kids.
Yes.
And getting to talk about things that we don't really get to talk to adults about very often.
But anyway, yeah, I mean, there's there's all kinds of reasons for it.
I was going to say like after YouTube, then the blog made a resurgence, but it was as
the vlog.
Yes.
So I think part of the resurgence of the podcast is is this like we're we're recording this
podcast on Riverside, which has a video aspect of it.
So it's actually going to record.
I mean, I'm the only one with my camera on right now, Chris.
This computer doesn't have a camera.
It's a little mini desktop.
There you go.
But the fact of the matter is that's the like that's the kind of technology that's being
invested in right now is that you don't just want to record online.
You want to be able to record not sorry, not just your voices.
You want to be able to record your voices and your camera.
And then like, you know, this is this is the steady like we just loop in as many things
as we can and get as much data as we can.
And then you can choose whether or not you want to watch it or just listen to the audio.
I noticed that because we also switched this week or this past week from the WordPress
site that we were trying to like manhandle into doing what we wanted it to do and to
do using RSS.com.
And RSS.com now has the ability to link to a YouTube page.
So if you've got RSS.com using your, you know, for your podcast, whatever, you can also
link that to YouTube and show the video portion of your podcast or video and audio, which
I thought was like, that's a big deal.
It is.
Now I'm probably of the ilk that would say if you have video, it's not a podcast anymore.
No, it's a vodcast.
Yeah, vodcast, vlog, whatever.
Although I guess vlog, I kind of think that more is the YouTube stuff now more than anything.
Well, the guy holding the camera and he's facing himself.
That's true.
I have to admit early on, I did love the video piece of it going way back.
I'm a huge fan of John C. Dvorak technology column that's been around since the eighties.
That name sounds familiar.
Oh, he's PC world, PC mag, a couple of the, the, the Mac as well, famously known for saying,
well, I got to make sure I get this right because he'll, if he could find me, he kept
my head off if I get this wrong.
He is quoted as saying no one needs, needs or wants a mouse.
That's unfortunately his claim to fame with most people.
What he actually said at that time at the introduction is there is no evidence that
people want or need a mouse.
Two distinctly different things.
That is a very different thing to say.
But unfortunately it turned into, he was the guy that said nobody wants or needs a mouse.
Yeah, that sounds a little bit like a hot take that didn't age.
Yes.
So he did a show called Cranky Geeks that was, that was, you get audio, but he also
had video.
Oh, I absolutely loved it.
He's kind of a cranky, cantankerous type of guy.
That may be why I'm drawn to him.
You know, I realized that one of my favorite from Sesame Street was Oscar the Grouch.
Well, whose wasn't?
I mean, there's kind of a reoccurring theme here.
I'm like, this guy's cranky.
This puppet was cranky.
Do I just really like cranky people?
Apparently like cranky people.
Yes.
Just drawn to them.
Yeah.
So he did that show, typical interview based show, but it was video and I, and I would
get the video format just because I love to be able to see him do his thing.
But eventually kind of became a so-called purist, but podcasting it's audio only for
me.
The only problem I have now is I try to keep up with too many shows.
Yeah, that'll get you.
Yeah.
And I will say like, there's a few of the shows that have been my favorites and they're
not out there anymore.
Local show here in Tyler, that time I best podcast I've ever heard.
And I think they're just not doing anything anymore.
Very sad.
So at current count, I actually have 20 podcasts.
You're listening to 20 different podcasts.
Attempting.
I'm behind obviously, but I'm trying.
I don't have that much time in the day.
So I've got maybe five that I try to keep track of, but one of them is a sermon.
And let me tell you podcasts that last 45 minutes, it's hard to fit those in.
Okay.
Well, then you don't want to know that at least two of mine hit a minimum of three hours.
Oh my gosh.
I'm sorry.
How do you do that?
I'm sorry.
Three.
I'm three.
So I'm a huge No Agenda fan, Adam Curry, John C. DeVora.
Of course I've been throwing those names out typically at least three hours.
The next, go ahead.
When do you have time for that?
Driving.
I have the luxury of when I'm doing work, I typically don't get a lot of interruptions
so I can put headphones on and I'll listen while I'm working because I'm spending a lot
of time at the keyboard.
So next is one called Mo Fax.
Huge fan.
I highly recommend.
Again, it's another Adam Curry show.
He's meeting with a guy named Mo Fax.
All I know is that he's a black guy.
He's kept his identity fairly quiet just because he didn't want to involve his family.
Well, that makes sense.
I've learned so much from listening to this podcast, him giving a black male perspective
of America and it's not woke stuff.
I mean, he's just straightforward.
Like, Hey, this is what it is.
This is how it is for me.
Yeah.
Not necessarily like an agenda.
Just saying what his thoughts on it are.
Correct.
On anything.
So that one is that one again, typically three hours.
And then you jump to Dan Carlin, Hardcore History.
I'm huge history fan.
Now thankfully his don't come out very often.
But when he does drop a show, it's at least three hours.
He has released some that are like five, six hours.
Oh my gosh.
But he's doing such a deep dive into what he's discussing that you need that amount
of time just to get it into that episode.
And so he'll do a series and there may be 10 to 12 episodes in that series and they're
all at least three hours.
I don't like, I don't know.
I don't know how you, number one, like I wouldn't be able to sit and listen to that for that
long.
And I understand that you're not like you're, you're not saying that you never get interrupted,
but then if I ever got interrupted in the middle of that, I'd have to go back at least
20 minutes and recap what I was like when I went, when I went back to the show, I would
have to rewind it at least that long.
This is the way I was like, this is why I had such a hard time in college reading, like
all the required reading in college was hard for me because I would get interrupted or
I would like lose my train of thought.
And if I did that, I had to go back like a ways in order to gain my train of thought
back and be able to connect those thoughts in my mind.
And it's like, if I do that with audio, like I, I would just never get anything finished.
I like to think that I get most of the stuff out of it.
There may, to your point, there may be stuff that I'm, I lose the connections on.
So, but yeah, so that's some of my, my consumption.
I obviously subscribed to all of the churches podcasts, try to stay current on those.
The church has three different podcasts.
Three, yes.
Count the sermon.
Yes.
Which is, yeah, but the in between, the way, the only, that's the only one that I'm on.
It is a podcast.
It is just a, like it, we have to have that meeting every week to talk about where we're
going in the sermon and with the music and all that stuff.
So that's a required like meeting that we would have no matter what.
And I was just like, especially it started, we started actually recording it during COVID
because at the very beginning of COVID, because I was like, we need a way to engage with people.
And I've been thinking about how some people would like to probably hear the like behind
the scenes of sermon prep.
And sure enough, like we've been doing it ever since it's kind of the mindset behind
it, but it's not a, it's not the same thing as like the, the other big podcast from the
church is reconstructed faith.
And that thing, like they are, they have a reason for doing that podcast.
They are trying to educate inside of that.
And it's, it's a, it's a different, it's a totally different thing.
But it's worth checking out.
Look up reconstructed faith at some point on wherever you get your podcasts.
That's a good one.
All right.
There's your plug.
There's the plug.
Okay.
So I know we're already at 30.
We don't want these to go too long.
So I'll try to get through this without truncating too much.
So like we said, cereal comes around, podcasting explodes, you know, then everybody has a podcast
and then it kind of starts to go quiet again, because again, there's no real innovation
in podcasting other than now we've got famous celebrities who now have a podcast or we're
taking NPR or PBS shows and then repackaging them as a podcast so that in case you miss
the live show, you can at least download it later and listen to the show.
And so about two, almost three years ago, you get the introduction of the podcast index,
which again is Adam Curry, the reoccurring theme here.
So he kind of looks at what's going on and for him, this all kicked off because of what
happened with the deplatforming of Alex Jones.
I'm not going to get into Alex other than that man can be so entertaining.
Why they turn the frigging frogs gate type of stuff.
So but I understand why they all went after him, why they deplatformed him, but he looked
at it, it's a bigger picture and going, Oh, wait a minute.
That's actually a problem.
Yeah, they can say, okay, we don't like you anymore.
You're gone.
You can't, you can't have a platform.
Correct.
So Apple drops him and then everybody else falls suit.
You know, Google drops him.
Spotify.
I mean, you, you name it, all the players in the market.
He's gone.
Now he's managed to survive, but he's not getting near the reach that he had.
And so he's going, Hey, this is a, this is a huge problem.
This is a free speech issue as well.
Granted, these are private companies, so they can kind of do what they want to do.
But this feels like collusion.
We need something that can push back against this.
So he starts working on the idea of the index initially.
So it's an index of all the podcasts, all their RSS feeds, anybody can access it.
You can download the entire database anytime you want and create your own index.
If you wanted to compete against the podcast index.
I mean, you literally could download the database every day, update your index and be a direct
so-called competitor.
And they don't care.
They just want to be out there.
We're trying to be as independent and unbiased as we can.
Here's everything.
Yeah.
So that then turns into, Hey, we actually need to protect and extend open podcasting.
And I say open because Apple and Spotify and Google and Amazon and all the others out there,
there's nothing open to what they do.
It's very much a closed system in my opinion.
It is.
And like, I think the reason people don't see it is because it's free.
Correct.
You know, there's so many, there's so many aspects of it that are free.
It's free to do like, it's not, it doesn't cost money for me to put a podcast on Apple,
but they review.
They do.
And all I have to do is sit through these crappy ads that get dropped in.
And sometimes at the worst times, I mean, so I don't, don't do that to me.
I didn't.
Yeah.
Anyway.
Yes.
So again, I view those as closed.
Some people may view it otherwise, but that's how I see it.
Open podcasting in my opinion is just pure RSS.
Here's my feed.
Here's where my episodes are.
Now your application can download it.
You've got to listen to it.
So they extend the podcast index to what they call a podcasting 2.0 with the intentions
of introducing features to podcasting that would hopefully expand the, the user base,
draw more people in and get people going.
So they've introduced a ton of tags.
Some that we're actually taking advantage of.
We'll get into those in a minute.
Hopefully if you haven't had a chance to look at some of what, what we have, we can go through
it in real time and maybe people listening to this could do the same.
That'd be fun.
So, so right now, well, I guess as of a few days ago, they had 4.29 million podcasts.
4.2.
I mean, wrap your head around that.
That's a big number.
Now that's now that could know if that obviously includes dead podcasts.
That includes a ton of one episode listed and it's the guy going fart poop.
That kind of stuff is literally just people playing around just being stupid and silly
because they could.
Yeah.
Because it's free.
Yes.
So of that 4.29 million in the last 30 days, only 355,000 have had a new episode posted.
Oh, wow.
That is a huge gap.
Huge gap.
Yes.
So you listen to Apple and especially Spotify bragging about, we have 4 point something million
shows, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Don't you dare.
No, you don't.
Not worth, not worth listening to.
Yes.
So that's kind of, and I love that you can go to the podcast index.org.
There's a plug.
You can see all the, all these stats in real time.
They kind of put it all out there.
Here's how many shows we have.
Here's how many have updated in 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.
You can kind of view it all.
Yeah.
So, um, highly recommend even go check that out.
So the primary components, the podcasting 2.0 is to expand the podcast namespace to
enable web app friendliness and then value for value.
What do you mean space?
The namespace is within the RSS feed.
I think the most common one that maybe some people have seen would be chapters.
I know that existed before podcasting 2.0.
I don't remember the company who came up with it though.
Um, but you, so in that previously you could have, uh, basically the TXT, which you can
use.
So you can include your email because until recently that was used to prove ownership
of a feed.
They could send an email to the, to what was in the feed.
You could get the email and respond and go, okay, yeah, you're really the owner of this
feed.
Yeah.
Um, and then Apple has a lot of what was in there was Apple proprietary.
So like the, like a GUID, a unique identifier for your show, there is an Apple GUID for
every single show.
And so all the podcast apps know, okay, this is the podcast.
This is it's GUID.
This is what it is.
I can talk to Apple and say, here's what I'm after.
So there really wasn't a whole lot going on there.
So they have come up with a ton of tags.
I won't try to go into full detail on all of them.
There are a ton of tags.
So they were looking at it and re within recent memory, there was the lawsuit with ADA and
going, Hey, y'all aren't compliant.
My clients can't partake in your podcast.
And it's like, no, they can't.
They're deaf.
You're right.
And so this has even happened to some web pages for, for the blind.
It's like, my, my client can't use your website.
So huge lawsuit, ADA ultimately won.
So that for podcasting 2.0, that leads to transcript tag.
Pretty straightforward.
Transcript of the show.
We actually have it currently active on the previous two shows.
I'm not saying it's a hundred percent accurate.
Oh no, of course not.
It is we're taking a look and reading and seeing how the so-called AI thinks what you're
saying.
But again, it extends the show to people who may be deaf and want to know something about
the show.
They can get the transcript and they can at least read the transcript and know what's
being discussed.
They introduce what's called the funding tag.
That really just kind of points to like a PayPal.
Hey Chris, give me a second.
Go ahead.
If there are any no agenda listeners out there, the power ball number is 33.
Good.
Where were we?
I think we just started talking about funding.
So I'll pick up with that.
Okay.
So the funding tag is pretty straightforward.
It can, oh, that's fine.
Okay.
I was going to say, cause I've, I've got it recording on my side as well.
I'll send that to you.
We're just going to do it off yours.
I think.
Okay.
So the funding tag pretty straightforward can send a link to a PayPal.
Cause in a link to a Patreon to way for listeners to send money to the podcaster, obviously
to help them keep going.
And what, whatever means possible, we'll get a little deeper into that when we get into
value for value and why some of that is important.
Next is chapters.
We actually have chapters set up on episode one right now.
I still need to work on episode two and we'll work on this one.
Chapters I really like.
You can break your show apart for whatever you're talking about.
What I really enjoy about chapters is the ability to introduce artwork.
So when a chapter changes, the artwork changes in the player.
Now in order to take advantage of that, you have to have a podcasting 2.0 enabled app.
Standard apps are not going to support the tag.
It's not going to work.
What's really nice is depending upon what app you're using, it's compatible with Apple
carplay.
It's Apple with Google, um, Lincoln on their car stuff.
But anyways, it can work with your car's audio system and you can actually see, thank you.
Android auto should have known that since I use an Android.
So you can actually see on, if you have the screen in your, in your car, you can actually,
the app will work through that.
You can actually see the artwork changing there as the show is going.
And you can, you can chop the chapters up all you want.
So you, if you're still technically talking about the same thing, but you want to change
the pictures constantly for what you're doing, you can totally do it.
It just depends on how much time and effort you want to put into it.
Um, I've heard, I haven't tested it that you could even potentially use a GIF.
Some people may call that a GIF, um, with that art, we'll have to try to try that and
make sure we don't potentially blow people's podcast apps up.
So totally love chapters.
It's also now I don't like this, but I could, I want people to actually listen to a show,
but chapters is actually a way to jump ahead if you want it to.
I'm not saying that you should do it, but you can't.
I would say instead of that, I would say it's a, it's an easy way to find the part of the
show that you wanted somebody else to hear because they were talking about something
after you've listened to the whole show.
Sure.
Well, there's actually a tag coming up for that, but we'll, we'll, we'll get there.
Uh, so the next tag is person tag.
Again, this is just about being able to say, this is the host of the show.
This is the different hosts of the show.
These are the guests who were on the show.
So you can actually go into podcast index.org or some other podcasting 2.0 compliant index
and actually searched by a person's name.
And now you can see every podcast they're either a part of or an episode of a given
podcast they went on.
If they're using the person tag.
Yeah.
Kind of nice.
That's really nice.
Next is season slash episode.
It's kind of been around for a little while.
Uh, but again, if you have, if you're doing seasons in those seasons of episodes, you
can totally throw that in as a tag.
You don't necessarily now have to type that out in your RSS trailer tag.
Uh, again, pretty straightforward.
This is the lead in trailer for our new podcast and put that out there.
Uh, license tag that gets into creative commons and other copyright you could have out there
value tag is where reusing like somebody else's music for, uh, no, I think, I actually, I
think the intent behind the license tag is really you protecting your content and it's
copyright to you.
And you can say, Hey, this is available under creative commons or some other open public
copyright system, not the traditional copyright system.
So you could go, you could go that way as well.
Yeah.
Uh, so then you get into value tag.
This gets really interesting and we'll play in a little bit more into value for value.
The value tag actually introduces the ability for you to pay the podcaster in such a way
that it circumvents other people getting a chunk of the money, so to speak.
So like if you use PayPal, uh, or if you use Patreon, they're taking a fairly good chunk
depending upon how much money you're potentially taking in.
Yeah.
So with the value tag, now you can introduce Bitcoin or the lightning network, which is
a subsection of Bitcoin or any other potential, um, alternative way of paying people to be
able to pay direct to the podcaster or some of the new things that's coming.
And we'll get into some of that in a little bit is to pay direct to a music artist or
a potential audio book person, or even the potential for a documentary or a movie that's
being released value for value.
Um, alternative enclosure.
This gets into, um, moving just beyond podcasting, you know, getting into really think for that
think of video.
Um, so again, I have a documentary or I have a movie and now with the alternate enclosure,
I can say, here's where to go to get the 480.
Here's where to go to get the 720.
Here's where to go to get the full HD, the 4k, so on.
Because ultimately these people hosting this or if they're self hosting bandwidth still
costs.
So it gives them the ability to say, Hey, go here.
You can still get it without breaking the bank.
Uh, location tag, our bank, yeah.
Breaking our bank location.
Pretty straightforward.
Where are you at when you're recording this?
We're using this with rss.com.
Obviously if you search for location, Tyler, Texas, you're going to find us.
They introduced their own version of the good.
So that do it is unique to the podcast index, but they also allow for you to link that to
your Apple good as well.
So you can have, you can have both.
Yeah.
A medium tag that kind of gets into, is it audio?
Is it music?
Is it an audio book movie, whatever it may be?
Images is if you want to have images, particularly in the chapters, the image tag will allow
you to say, here's the image.
Here's where it at.
Here's the format that it's in.
Here's the size.
The live tag is really interesting and this is a new growing thing in the podcasting 2.0
group is you actually can set the live tag.
And so if again, if you have a podcasting 2.0 app, they go live, you get a notification
in your app that, Hey, they're live.
They're doing a show right now.
You can tap on that notification and go right to the live stream right there.
Really, really cool.
Really cool.
As they're, as they're recording it.
Yes, as they're literally recording it, you're listening live.
So obviously if you listen live, you may hear some pieces that aren't in the final product,
depending on what kind of post-production they do.
Yeah.
No, that's for sure.
You wouldn't hear that.
We just had a break in the middle of this because of a coughing fit.
Correct.
So social interact that gets into comments is how I would describe that.
You can link.
So what they're, what they're leveraging right now is Mastodon, which is kind of what Twitter
was before Twitter introduced the algo.
So it's literally just a time.
Mastodon is that's well, I'm playing in a different, different pool of things.
So you definitely are.
Yeah.
So a lot of this comes from Adam Curry, no agenda.
So Mastodon, if you remember the old days of Twitter, there was no algo to say, Hey,
we actually think you would like this because you said this, it was literally just a timeline
and you could scroll through that timeline feed and see things.
That's basically what Mastodon is.
It's Twitter minus the algo that feeds the vitriol or the hate or whatever it is that
it's feeding to you.
So you take a post on Mastodon and then you link that to a given episode.
And now anything that gets attached or responds to that post on Mastodon now becomes comments
to that podcast.
And the beauty of it is now this can go across applications again, that support podcasting
2.0 tags.
So I can open up fountain as an example of an app, see the comments.
I could open up Curio caster, see those exact same comments.
I can post in from one app and see it show up on the other app.
So very similar to the way comments work in YouTube.
Wow.
Very interesting.
That's just one, I mean, that's just one medium provider.
Like you're talking about different apps being able to see the same content and, and not
just the same content, but the same reaction to that content.
And that reaction being not just a nice show, like an actual comment, conversation about
it.
Correct.
That's intense.
It's that's, that's an interesting one.
TXT, they had to introduce this because they, for whatever reason, everybody decided having
your email in your RSS feed was irrelevant.
I don't know why they came to that conclusion.
So the TXT is a way to reintroduce your email.
So they, again, you can do proof of ownership of your RSS feed because they strip that out.
Again, this gets back to Apple and they're kind of in control and they're the behemoth
and whatever they say, people fall in line.
So not trying to bash Apple in this case, but that's, no, no, no.
Other times I am absolutely, but not in this case.
So they come up with a TXT tag and there's other things you can do with it, but that's
the most common one.
We're going to reintroduce our email address.
You can now confirm it.
You send it.
I respond.
You know, I know own this remote item is a fairly new one.
That gets interesting.
So that you can actually call literally a remote feed.
You could recall a remote image, a remote MP3, whatever it is, and pull that into the
feed.
This gets really intriguing around doing music because I don't necessarily have the file
local.
Interesting.
Now I can call it remote where it's hosted and it gets fed into the feed.
So there's a lot that you could potentially do with that.
That'd be interesting because it would have to be something that like, I mean, you can't
just do that with Apple music because that person would have to have, whoever's listening
to it would have to have a subscription on things like that.
Apple's not going to let you do that.
So again, caveat to this is you probably have to self-host in order for this ultimately
to be useful.
But again, it's an intriguing tag.
Frequency, really nothing to say about that.
That's pretty straightforward.
Pod ping is fairly new.
I probably should have read a little bit more of this to be able to explain it.
The general thing, going back to the beginning with Apple talking about we're carbon neutral,
carbon neutral.
If they really want to be carbon neutral, they will leverage pod ping because the current
way that it works is all these applications and all these phones and all these apps are
constantly checking and checking and checking and checking, utilizing CPU cycles, electricity
to whole nine.
Instead, you let pod ping take care of that.
One person is checking those feeds and then they send a notification to the app.
Nice.
You cut down on all the so-called carbon and you're more carbon neutral.
Every little bit helps.
If you're listening, Apple, you should introduce this.
That's an interesting idea.
Yes.
The last one, this gets into what's happening around music and that is the value time split.
I've heard it recently referred to as wallet switching technology, which makes it sound
fancy and cool.
Literally what this is doing, and this is getting into where podcasting 2.0 is going
and really kind of gets me excited and gets me rolling is this is being leveraged currently
for music.
Adam Curry, I'm saying his name again, does a new show.
I think they're like six episodes in called the Booster Grand Ball.
He is playing music from independent artists.
You told me about this.
Yes.
He's pulling from Wave Lake.
I think he pulls from Ellen Beats.
There's one other, I don't remember SoundCloud maybe is the other one that supports this.
He is literally doing a live podcast.
So the live tag, you can listen in live to the music that he's playing, him being a radio
DJ pre MTV.
This is his bread and butter.
This is what he grew up on.
He did pirate radio when he was in the Netherlands.
So this is really him back in his element.
He's able to put on basically a live radio show, but he's calling these songs that are
hosted someplace else.
So with that, when he's not pulling out a disc from his library, no disc, no record,
no eight track, no nothing.
So the DJ is used to.
Yes.
So live on the fly, he is calling a show and what's happening live, now he's actually manipulating
this behind the scenes.
I don't want to make it sound like it's automatic, but he starts a track from a musician and
immediately any potential streaming, sat, Satoshi's, this gets into the lightning and
Bitcoin that we're going to the podcast are redirected now to the music artist.
That's pretty cool.
Yes.
So you can use boosts, which is called a boost to gram.
Think of that as, um, why don't they call that on YouTube where you can send a dollar
amount with a comment.
Um, they don't usually do that on YouTube.
They do it on like Twitch and yeah, Twitch has it.
YouTube has it too.
It's like a super chat.
I think is what YouTube calls it.
Basically you can send a chunk of money with a comment.
So any boost to grams that happen while that music is playing again, that's going over
to the artist, which is amazing.
There is a, let me pull it up.
So I'm kind of getting this right.
There is a young girl right now who kind of exploded on the scenes, um, on wave Lake,
uh, Ainsley Costello.
She released a song called cherry on top about the time that boosted grand ball started exploded.
She was the first person on wave Lake to be able to get more than a million Satoshi's
for one song.
Dang.
That's now granted.
That's not a huge chunk of money.
I think that's in the ballpark of three to $400.
Yeah.
But that's, that's not the point.
Correct.
It's the fact that she got it.
No record labels, no middleman, no five.
Yes.
No, anybody.
So like right now she's at 1.1 million to toe.
She's just for the song cherry on top, very, um, poppy type of song.
Sure.
Um, so she got all, she got all of that while that song is playing streaming and boosts.
And then when the song is done, then it rolls back to him.
So he's paid for whatever he's speaking about.
He cuts to the next song.
He switches it to that artist and now that artist gets any money that's coming in.
That's pretty neat.
It's a minute.
Good.
Like you said, value for value.
It's not a, uh, um, he's not inserting himself into the value of, um, playing something.
Correct.
And what I love about it, it is not the typical Apple says you can buy my song and it's worth
99 cents.
Yeah.
You now as the listener can say, I have to say that says to you, yes.
So the artists it's worth 13 cents.
Oh yeah.
They're getting next to nothing.
So going back to Ainsley, she had had her music out for three years on all the major
streaming.
She had made a total of $600 in that time in a matter of a handful of months doing value
for value.
She has made over $400.
That's pretty cool.
Yes.
It really, really, really is.
And so the, again, the heart of value for value is you're listening to a podcast.
You could be listening to music.
Eventually it could be some type of audio book or it could be a movie or a documentary
or whatever it is.
And you get to now give back what you see the value, not just the value that Apple or
Google or whoever is saying.
If you listen to that song and you're like, Hey, that song's worth five bucks.
You send them five bucks.
If you say that song is worth 30 bucks, you send them 30 bucks.
It's up to you.
Whatever value you're getting, you should give that value back.
That's kind of the whole...
You used to have to buy whole albums to be able to listen to one song.
You'd spend 10 bucks on an album, but really you were spending 10 bucks on one song.
Yeah.
There's plenty of those that I bought an entire CD.
Maybe two.
Yeah.
And there was one good song and that's it.
The rest of the CD was just trash.
So this is amazing.
You can listen to...
They basically have it all out there.
You can listen along.
You can be streaming or you can send Boost or however you want to do it.
And again, this is all wrapped in the Podcasting 2.0.
If you're not using a Podcasting 2.0 app on your phone or a web-based app, you're not
going to be able to take advantage of any of this.
I encourage anybody out there who doesn't have it, go get a Podcasting 2.0 enabled app.
There's a bunch.
I'm not getting paid to tell people to go do this.
We're not.
New Podcasting...
Is it new?
Well, they recently changed it.
New...
You sent me a whole list.
We can put some...
We're going to tag this show with some of these details.
If you go to newpodcastapps.com, that will take you to more than just apps.
You can see hosting companies and everything else.
And so when you and I were going back and forth and I was telling you, hey, I'm looking
at all these different hosting companies, this is where I was going and setting these
filters.
So I was choosing Hosting and going, okay, what do these hosts do?
So we're using RSS.com.
We looked at Blueberry.
We looked at Captivate.
We looked at RSS Blue.
Yeah, we looked at RSS Blue.
All of those are great services.
We settled on RSS.com.
These apps are cross-platform.
Some of them, some of them are unique to Apple.
Some are unique to Android.
They're web-based apps.
So you can literally have a podcast app that's in the browser.
You can do all your subscriptions there, whatever you want to do.
And it's all out of the browser.
That can work on your computer.
That could even work in the browser on your mobile device.
It's not unique to just your computer.
So I like, and this again is Android, iOS.
I would suggest people go check out Fountain.
The nice thing about Fountain is you can actually earn free Satoshis just for listening to shows.
And then you can then take those free Satoshis and then pass them on to your favorite podcaster.
Maybe it's Bering Gear.
We can listen to those over our way.
That would be nice.
Yes.
So I encourage people to go here.
Check it out.
Fountain podcasts.
Yes.
So again, I love where podcasting is going.
I love what Podcasting 2.0 is doing.
At least somebody's trying.
Yeah.
I mean, there's a lot of ethics involved in all of this that we haven't been able to talk
that much about.
Because this, I mean, this was, this episode was drinking out of a fire hose for sure.
Yes.
And I think the drive behind so much of it is the, again, ethics of it.
Like how do we, how do we do this without the sleaziness of what it can turn into?
Yes.
And then let me ask you, John, have you had a chance to look at some of the things unique
to our show?
Like the chapters that are up for the first episode?
Or have you even attempted to take a peek at that?
Not yet.
No, I haven't even, I haven't even gotten to look at it.
Because I was sick for like all of this past week.
I mean, I still am not a hundred percent.
But we've, there's been, you know, family stuff and work stuff.
And then also being sick, not, not helpful for even us being able to get together to
have this third episode.
Okay.
I plan on it.
That's going to be great.
So if anybody out there has an existing podcasting 2.0 app, you go right now, episode one has
chapters.
You'll see the images change.
You know, it leads in with the show.
It's got our, our, our logo.
And then it switches to the various beers that we were talking about.
You can see images from those.
And then as we were kind of going through, I even found an image to throw out there for
the 3.2 beer that you discussed.
Really?
Yes.
And it kind of talks a little about, I don't know how well it's going to show up in a podcast
app, but it's referencing 3.3.2 beer.
And then we talked about it.
Look at that.
Are you looking at it now?
So I just download fountain because I had the one that I had downloaded before was
Testimony, no, it doesn't have the name on it.
It's throwing me off.
Shoot.
Fathom.
I don't know that what I was trying to use and fathom.
It's on the list of ones, but it didn't have our podcast on it.
So I was, I was trying to find a new one.
Okay.
So I'm going to put a fountain on here.
That's the one I'm going to use.
But you can freeze it.
Fountain.
I just, I just saw our podcast and that it has the new, the new logo.
Yeah, that's right.
The new show art show art.
Yes.
And then sub to that, you can have different for each episode.
And if you notice, there is technically a slight variation between episode one and episode
two.
Yeah.
So Jen is the gray background episode two has the white background.
But then you can look at those, those chapters.
And so I've got, we talked about, talked about the show.
So I've got Jen and everybody sitting on the couch to that reference.
I found a random chair for like the feelings chair segment that we talked about.
When we talked about specific gear, I threw some images out of the gear that we were talking
about.
We talked about the feelings chair.
Yeah.
And then we referenced clean feed.
Now that's out there.
We talked about Dennis Miller.
I grabbed an image of Dennis Miller.
We briefly talked about podcasting 2.0 and then that's actually a picture of Adam Curry
current.
So, um, chapter still to come for episode two and obviously for, for this episode, once
it kind of gets out there.
Um, I, I enjoy this when I'm on a road trip and I'm watching, I'm watching this change
on screen while I'm listening.
Right.
It's, it's almost like you were watching, you know, people doing it, but no, where this
is just the information that they're giving us about what they're talking about.
Yes.
So, um, and then one other thing, let me see if I can get to it real quick.
Cause I know we probably need to be wrapping this.
That's fine.
Um, in fact, you actually want to go along with me here.
Log into RSS.com.
Going ours, log into ours.
Yes.
Log into ours.
Oh, apparently I can't type.
Can't type, can't spell.
Blame the beer.
I don't think you can blame it just yet.
I mean, unless you've had more than one.
I've had two, but I wouldn't think that that would make me unable to type.
There we go.
You just never know.
Okay.
So are you logged in?
Yeah.
Okay.
So you go up at the top, go to monetization and third section down, you'll see value for
value value for value.
And you'll see 35 stats, one, one boost to Graham.
So you see where it says, visit Albie's website.
Go ahead and click on that.
Yeah.
And you can see that I sent it.
I sent this as a, as a test to make sure it was working.
And then out to the right, you've got the little carrot pointing down.
If you click on that, it expands and you can see the details.
But more importantly is you can see the note and the note says, love the show.
Keep it up.
Nice.
So that, again, this gets into the interactivity of podcasting.
Now we're not doing live, so we can't respond to you live, but if we were live, we could
be seeing these.
I'm not saying it's not happening in the future.
Sure.
But what I would encourage folks, if you want your name called out, this is a way.
This is a way.
Send us a boost to Graham and we'll read it.
Now don't write us more in peace, but this is a way to say encouragement or to say, Hey,
I don't like you covering that.
Whatever it may be.
It's encouragement.
Yes.
Encouragement.
So this is a way again, through podcasting 2.0 for the listener to interact with the
podcaster that changes everything.
And if you're doing a, you can imagine being in a live show, these things are hitting you
live in the middle of the show.
You see it come in and you can now react in real time to that listener and they get to
hear that basically from their end, which is almost real time interaction coming back
from the podcaster starts to make podcasting very interactive, which completely changes
the nature of what podcasting has always been.
Absolutely.
I mean, actually live interaction.
That's a big deal.
Correct.
And then we have the ability to actually determine the splits.
That's something that we didn't talk about well ago.
I know we're getting long.
We'll try to wrap this up.
You gotta stop saying that.
Yeah.
I know it's going to mess me up because the last time, last couple of the first episode,
we kind of made it clear.
We were wrapping up so I was able to label it last call.
So, so you can actually set the split when it comes in right now.
We keep 95%, 5% goes to RSS.com.
We can set up our own wallets and say, percentage goes to you.
Percentage goes to me.
Percentage stays for the show.
Yeah.
Or however we want to break that up and you can now spread this out.
So this is obviously huge for, for music.
You have multiple artists when those Satoshis come in, this percentage to the singer, this
percentage to the guitars, the drummer, the bass, whatever it may be.
So the drummers always get less.
It's just the way that it is.
I would love to see the drummers at least get an equal split to everybody else.
That's just not going to happen.
Ringo kind of messed it up for all of us.
So I have a whole ton more of what we need to stop.
I know we're running long.
Cause there's plenty of content for future shows.
Plenty of content and also like, man, we're going to have to debrief this one just by
itself because that's, that has, it has been a lot of information for sure.
I've been along for the ride.
Yeah.
So I love this.
I love what they're doing.
I would love to see it grow.
Love to see it take off.
And, you know, a lot of the, the big players in the market that hold back music artists
or hold back podcasters in general.
This is an opportunity to circumvent all those people in the middle and people actually get
better value for what they're, what they're putting out there.
I love it.
That's fantastic.
Yes.
All right.
Thanks for hanging out with me.
Yeah.
Thank you for going along.
Having a beer.
Yeah.
I need to get a refrigerator here next to me for these long shows so that I can just keep
pulling them out.
Yeah.
That, that second one was a little, a little warm, but, but good.
Maybe in future shows I can send my, my wife a text and she can slip me a cold one.
There you go.
She would do it for sure.
Yeah.
Enjoyed it.
I was glad to share some of this.
Absolutely.
So we're not necessarily a value for, I mean, I guess we technically are, we're set up a
value for value podcast.
So throw a jink, throw this out real quick.
If you got any value from this show and you happen to have a podcasting 2.0 app, this
is a great way for you to throw back value.
You send us a Boostergram.
I'll gladly read it out on the show.
I love it.
So, all right.
Enjoyed it, John.
Thanks brother.
All right.
See you next time.
All right.
Thanks.