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Hello players who could no longer play just one class.
And DMs who have seven intricate PCs they've built and have been waiting to play for years but no they never will.
Welcome back to Table Talk. I'm Maddie.
And I'm Robert.
What are we talking about today Robert?
How to play more than one class at the same time and not be shit at it hopefully.
It's not even that clearly explained in the player's handbook which not to shit on the people that wrote it.
I mean fifth edition is very complicated and very hard to understand.
So I don't pretend to know what better than they do.
But just doing some of the research for this particular episode and like learning how the fuck like the official stuff is is kind of crazy.
There's a whole bunch of rules they go with it.
It gets really really into the nitty gritty when you start talking about casting spells and cantreps from different classes because you still have to cast with the original ability modifier not your primary one.
So if you're like doing one or two with different casting.
So if you're casting like wizard and divine smite with charisma you're not going to use charisma to then use one of your wizard cantreps.
Like it's just it's not how it's going to work.
It's all it's all very convoluted.
Multi-class thing is difficult and honestly 95% of players are going to be better off sticking to a single class just because unless you really are going for like a super specific build chances are you're going to miss out on the benefits of just like the original class you picked.
Yeah.
Multi-classing is particularly useful when you want features usually within the first three levels of another class but you want to focus more on one.
It can be fun for story reasons it mechanically is kind of like okay I'm missing this specific kind of thing whether that's AC I want higher hit points I want more access to certain kinds of spells I want to be able to do more unarmed strikes.
Then maybe it makes sense for your wizard to multi-class into a monk if they like also like the idea that they're trained in martial combat or for your warlock to multi-class into rogue if they want to do the more like stealthy side of magic while also going to sneak attack dice which you don't get that for spells.
So that's kind of the downside but.
The other way I think is also like very character German if you have a character that you really really want to be built in a specific way like Bard Barion is a relatively well known build if you want to be like he may like the strong man in a circus and you want to be a performer but you want to be very physical about it.
You know that would be kind of a good build to go with or just like like flavor purposes as opposed to just mechanical because I'm someone who will tank my own stats.
If it fits the vibe I literally lowered one of my stats for my character that I'm currently playing as I was going through and I was like it didn't make sense.
I was like she cannot be that charismatic she's she's very bad at this so I lowered her score like just unprompted.
So if you're like really into that aspect of it and then of course if you're like someone who like really likes like min maxing and like metagaming and optimization builds.
You can get there with multi classing but like Robert mentioned earlier a lot of the time you're going to end up like unless you know what you're doing inside and out.
It's how you're gonna every player is going to go through multi classing a character and just fucking it up like a lot and just kind of making it redundant and like abilities that just like kind of cancel each other out as opposed to like helping each other.
There's a lot of overlap as well between classes specifically in class features so they sound or they're labeled different but they read the same.
I'll get into some of those examples.
One of the other things to keep in mind with multi classing is that there are two general terms to keep in mind character level is the first and then class level is the second.
They don't really use those terms and fit the addition all that much but it's still kind of useful to know a character level is the total number of levels you have across all of your classes.
If that's a singular class then that you could that's also your class level but if you're a level five character that your character level would be five.
But if you're multi classing in fighter and then also in rogue you could say that your class levels then respectfully are fighter three in rogue two or the opposite or as many higher levels you want.
And that's kind of how it will display sometimes on whatever like if you're using a digital character sheet I know ours that it breaks it down by that.
If you're doing it physically it's just something you have to keep track of but the first step to choosing is figuring out what requirements you need to actually break into another class.
So in the players handbook chapter six customization options is a fun little list of prerequisites to multi class.
The main barrier is your ability scores.
So strength charisma wisdom dexterity intelligence.
None of them not a single glass cast with Constitution.
It's a fucking stupid stat that doesn't be there.
There is an interview that they that Brennan Lee Mulligan did on the podcast Adventuring Academy.
I think it was where he was talking about this is me referencing someone else talking about a article they read on a different podcast.
So this is like very redundant.
But going through multiple levels.
Well it talks about how there was an argument that sorcerers should use Constitution as their primary ability modifier because it's like it's innate to their bloodline or their person.
So it's back control over your individual body as opposed to like how fucking sexy you are which I know that's not what charisma is but like to me that's always kind of what charisma reads as.
Right.
But I think that that's just a so there's arguments out there. Maybe somebody wants to homebrew their own class.
Yeah. Using Constitution is casting modifier would be cool.
But generally speaking all of your barriers are 13 doesn't matter what the stat is.
It's going to be strength 13 charisma 13 wisdom 13 dexterity intelligence 13 the only one that uses intelligence to break into the multi class is wizard.
Everything else is going to be charisma dex wisdom or strength.
There are also some classes that lend themselves to breaking into multi class than others.
Right. So fighter monk paladin and ranger.
Right. They have two different stats that you can break into them with wisdom and dexterity strength and charisma dexterity and wisdom strength or dexterity.
So in theory if you just wanted to have a really high dex character you don't actually need to have a separate stat that also hits 13 you could multi class and a fighter monk and ranger and rogue.
If for some fucking reason you wanted to do four classes.
That's obscene. I only using dexterity so you don't actually need to have two different stats.
I think if you're going beyond two classes I've seen builds with three but I think if you're going for sure like three is already crazy.
If you are trying to get more classes than that don't just don't.
There's no mechanical benefits of that really because you're not going to be able to get to a high enough level for you to be able to do things that are powerful enough to back up all of the.
Fucking work that you're doing and the goddamn pages you were going to have to sip through to like use your own fucking class features.
Yep.
A couple of things that also change up in you multi class so hit points and hit dice.
If you don't know what those are please go listen to the previous episodes or this isn't going to make a whole lot of sense.
Tldr whenever you level up your class has a set amount of hit dice so that could be a six a 10 a 12 depends on what class you're in and basically when you level up you'll roll X amount of those and that will determine how much health you use.
Using the hit points higher than first level section in the players handbook the way that this works with multi class is actually kind of interesting so if you if you've had nothing but sixes as a wizard up to four different levels and then up to your fifth level you decide you want to take barbarian you get a D 12 that does not mean that you get to roll five D 12 instead of four D sixes and one D 12 you only get the one but it does mean that you will roll with all those different dice.
The other thing is that your proficiency bonus is not something you have to worry about it is the same regardless of how many classes you're in it only cares about your character level it doesn't give a shit about what other classes you have points or experience in leveling up if you do experience points that also doesn't give a shit about your class level you still have to get eight if you have seven points in different classes you're still looking at leveling up to eight really matter.
The proficiencies you get are a little bit different because a lot of the time when you're starting out with a class you get a certain number of like proficiencies that automatically come with it.
Versus when you're multi classing it's a little bit more like screen one only certain ones that you get.
And generally that's going to be proficiencies with items and I mean items in the terms of like weapons and armor and things like that you're not going to be getting like bonuses to actual skills which means if you're a multi classing into sorcerer or wizard.
You get nothing kind of shit you get nothing you get nothing you get a fucking middle finger.
Yeah just looking at the table it's it's shields like simple weapons martial weapons light armor one skill of your choice like it's all very basic stuff.
And it's essentially to keep you from getting too many overlapping abilities just because there are a lot of things that are similar.
Another important thing to know is that when you very very very first created character in your first level of a class.
It gives you a starting equipment to choose from you do not get an additional set of starting equipment if you put a first level in another class beyond your first class.
Why would you I mean you can choose to go out and buy a whole new set of gear to like I don't know fit the vibe but it's not something that just comes with the level up.
And a lot of the time I mean I guess it depends on what level you're starting at but if you're like playing characters from a lower level and moving forward often times you're going to be multi classing along the way so it's going to be you're already actively playing this character when you decide that you want to take levels and something else.
And the idea of getting starting equipment for that is so goofy because it's like most of the time there's not like a real world event that's like cool you like level up and it's this really cool thing it's like no you wake up the next morning because you leveled up outside at the table.
And you have these new abilities and the idea of like waking up and just seeing a whole new pile of like of stuff next to you stuff that's just been granted like a whole new kit of shit because you decided you wanted to get good at singing instead of punching.
Yeah and it just like spawned in which I think is like kind of goofy I think it's fun but like.
Yeah it's not happening.
Yeah I mean unless you just really wanted to happen.
Another thing to consider about multi classing that a lot of people miss out on because they're not 100% sure how to do it right.
Abilities score increases are a class feature they are not something that come with your character level overall.
So ability score increases for those that again are unaware go back and listen to the previous episodes TLDR.
Usually at the fourth eighth twelve sixteenth and nineteenth levels with the exception of fighters and rogues who get more ability increases.
It is a class feature at those levels to get an ability score of your choice to increase.
What that means is if you hit the fourth level as a fighter you can then choose to increase one of your ability scores by one that's usually going to give you an option between so on so forth.
It is entirely possible in your entire run in multi classing to miss every single ability score increase if you choose to do it that way.
It's fucking dog shit.
It is. It is incredibly dog shit.
And what it means is that you need to at least in my opinion you need to pick one core class to focus on at least until you get to the fourth level.
Maybe the fifth level because you really start getting a lot of increases to a lot of different things at the fifth level.
Beyond that do whatever the fuck you want.
But unless you have magical items to boost your ability scores or you have you just rolled really good on like roll points and roll ability scores as opposed to one of the other ways to build your character.
What the fuck is that system called point by yeah or as opposed to point by right like if I roll straight sixteenths and I have a bunch of pluses and I don't have a score below a fourteen a fucking ability score increase.
I'm just going to go out of my way to get one magical item that's just going to dump stat one of them and then take whatever levels I want into the class.
But if you're not so fortunate you have like a nine in intelligence and you would like to pump that up eventually.
Good fucking luck.
Maybe not multi class.
Good luck. I mean you can. It's just going to be a lot harder because you're not going to get to use any of the fun multi class aspects until you at least grab one of those ability score increases.
I think one of the other like kind of downsides to multi class can I don't say this and I don't think either of us are coming at this point of like being anti multi class almost all of the characters that I play are multi class just because it's something I enjoy to do.
But a lot of the times you have to be very careful about making sure that you don't have abilities that like completely cancel each other out or that your multi class doesn't render your character useless.
Like I mean if you're a barbarian of any kind you have to keep in mind OK well when you're raging you can't cast spells.
That's going to be pretty fucking big if you decide to multi class into a spell casting class because it's like cool that's great you cannot use any of those in combat if you want the benefits of rage.
And like trying to like kind of balance those things and it's also a thing of like extra attack.
Yeah that doesn't stack.
Yeah no it's you get it once you can only take it once.
So if you have a feature with fighter into feature with Monk that both say you can make two attacks you can still only make two attacks you don't suddenly get four same thing with an armor defense it's another ability that doesn't stack.
And again like I mentioned earlier can trips and spells you cannot cast them using another modifier outside of the one assigned to your class.
So if you get a can trip from your one level and wizard and you have a dumb stat and anything that's not intelligence and you have like the bare minimum requirement for wizard you're never going to be able to upcast that
and it's only ever going to be locked at level one wizard. Yeah and it's one of those things of like a lot of multi classing you can tell which character which class is kind of Linda itself to multi class with other classes.
So you can tell from the pan of the sorcerer warlock multi class and you're also going to be able to see like cool like Druid Monk and fighter which we kind of talked about earlier those are all going to like go really well together.
And any of your martial classes if you're going to like multi class with something I would with a barbarian for reasons outside of like just the flavor and if you're looking for like a good mechanical build you're going to want to be looking at the more martial classes because that's like what you're going to be able to do and be able to
recognize okay well with this one huge feature of this glass I can't do so many other things like a rogue paladin sounds cool in theory because you're like oh cool I could like sneak attack and smite on the same turn and then you have to keep in mind okay well what do I have to do with whatever my like rogue subclasses to get that sneak attack damage
is that something that I'm going to be able to feasibly do is a paladin if I'm going to be like wearing heavy armor and I'm going to be wielding a martial weapon or like a great sword or something it's going to be significantly I don't even think you can can you sneak attack with like a great sword
I think it has to be as long as as long as you're attacking somebody from stealth I believe you get sneak attack damage if you have the ability to do so yeah otherwise it's just flanking and you call it advantage yeah it's just one of those things we've got to like really think through and design
YouTube is great for finding quick builds people do all sorts of example builds online of like favorite anime characters or favorite character from comic books or from fantasy and a lot of the times it is multi class because like real people or real character builds are usually a little bit more complex than like just mainlining one subclass in another glass
like it doesn't make a lot of sense for like that incredibly dynamic and diverse character that has a list of different powers and abilities to be a singular glass yeah and that's kind of where I think multi glassing lends itself more to the role play
and less to the mechanics unless you're just really really really good at it because there's there's so much economy and action economy and class features and AC and hit points and hit dice and proficiencies and cantrips and spells and features that you have to constantly keep in mind depending on just how far you want to take your multi class
it's already exhausting as a player trying to memorize and fully understand like the depth of your character build and everything because you just oftentimes especially when you're getting to higher levels you have so many things that you can do and then adding another class into that it can be overwhelming
so unless you're like super confident in something I would steer away from it however I do think that multi classing is something that every player should learn how to do and it should try at least once I think their classes themselves that also lend itself to
multi classing better I played a straight rogue for one one shot never again in my fucking life while I ever play a straight that it was one of the most garbage experiences and it's one of those things of like cool if I'm going to do this I'm going to multi class like I I love warlocks I don't think I would
ever play a warlock without multi classing just because the limited spell slots gets me I know you've got a mainline warlock man it's the only way to do it anything any spell you want to with the fifth level and fucking getting me I mean that's really nice
I have like four spell slots but I'm also doing six times the amount of damage in the wizard next to me who's casting it at like the second level correct but I raise you sorcerer main like the fucking unwanted love child of a warlock and a wizard where some piss baby went but I still want to do more in combat and I want to be able to
do it and I'm just casting faster while still in spell slots no one cares no one asked for it this is no one gives fuck all you're just naturally good at things each shit at least like the warlock had to make a pact with some like deity and the wizard had to study
the wizard and the wizard had to find a book what did you do you were born yeah it's one of those were born a fucking poser of the idea of like I every time every time I see an interaction with like the concept of like a wizard and then like a sorcerer and a fucking warlock like talking about their magic is so fucking funny to me
it's like the wizard's like cool I've studied for years warlocks I made like a powerful deal with an insta sourceers like I'm somebody my family fuck somebody and now I can cast spells on this way fucking nerds fucking losers get wrecked like it's
up but one of the fun things you could do with warlock and it depends on your table but you can also with having the ability to burn spells like spell slots into sorcery points is really nice when you're taking another like spell casting class because
and Robert shaking his head in real life because I did this and I just had damn near infinite spell slots and it was to a laughable point where I was like asking for magical items to take away my I traded spell slots for like or no I traded cantro
because my list of cantro was ridiculously long I was like I don't want these can I trade them for something else and I was like trading spell slots for like different abilities just because I was like I have too many of them I need to get rid of them
so if you're looking for just sheer number of spell slots you know that's a build that you can definitely look at yeah it's a little annoying but you certainly can also you could just be a wizard if you really want that many
spell slots and abilities right but instead of having to do like the math with multi-classing into sorcerer and warlock to achieve what the wizard already does by itself I took okay to be fair I also took that multi-class for flavor reasons yeah for flavor reasons
but also the mechanical if I can see this is where I think a lot of times the the like the result is cool but then considering that a lot of the results are just what a regular class could do if you mainline it correct that's for multi-classing gets a little like
but like why would you because it's like I could multi-class fighter and rogue to do some really funny this is a hot take but I could multi-class fighter and rogue to get like a really cool sick ranged ability ranged weapon build or I could just mainline ranger and get all of the feats that I need or
or artifice or and just have a gun yeah like yeah maybe I can do sneak attack damage and I can take more than one hit but like or one one attack a turn but like also way why it's definitely one of those things and a lot of the time that you see people talking about like multi-classing when it
comes to like broken builds and stuff like that is for one specific combo it's a single feature it's always to have a single feature which is great but like I like multi-classing and I lean towards multi-classing because I like my characters to be decent at several things as opposed to just really really good at one thing
I like like in the character I'm currently playing I was I wanted to take one of these basically features that would allow me to use a DA for my unarmed strike and Robert was like why the fuck would you do that she's not a martial character
she's never been within like 10 feet of anyone in any combat it's not helpful she hit people yeah but I liked the idea of being able to have like okay well if I'm in this situation I've got this which fits the character but it's also to a point where I was like cutting back I mean like okay I need to think a little bit
more mechanical so I'm able to make a comprehensive build because it doesn't make sense for me to play a fuck it this is not an example of what the character was but like if I'm playing a barbarian I can't hold concentration while I'm in rage so cool I can buff myself up with all these spells
and then lose it the second you go to use your main class feature yeah I use rage and if you're a barbarian and you're not using rage what are you doing barbarian munk combo would be fun just because you could reckless attack and then just start your chain because it's all about how many attacks you land
which are opening hit the other things to consider to is like some depending on how many levels you put in the classes you might fuck yourself like if you decide to take barbarian and let's say any other classic and like hit people but you don't have an inherently high C high AC you're going to put yourself in a disadvantage of reckless attack and then end up getting fucking hit guaranteed because you have a 13 AC
yeah yes you can take two attacks and yes you can rage but also you don't have the AC or the hit points to get hit because you have two levels in barbarian I think that's one of the things 5E did very well is like it is it balances you to a point where it's like cool you can't I mean definitely it
could feel like it but most of the time that's just because you have built and multi class into four or five fucking different classes and you're only getting like a level or two in each just to do this one thing and it's like cool that's great but like I could just try and get a magical item that could do the same thing
5th edition tries to scale the difficulty of the world when you hit certain milestones at levels so like the reason why you have to be really careful when you multi class at level five is because the the kinds of monsters that you are fighting around the fifth level as a party
there's a sharp increase in difficulty from four to five and if you do not have that ability increase or really important class feature if you've just been digging around another levels chances are you're going to be fucked when your other teammates have five levels in one class and you can't do shit with your two classes because you're level two and level three
I don't think that you should be able to add I don't know if this is a rule but I personally don't think you should be able to multi class until you hit a lot of rule you can multi class into a different class all the way up until the fifth level so you go one and row level two one and
wizard level three one and paladin like you can do that that's stupid it's an option all all 20 levels could be put in in the random classes you roll a dice I think as a rule you need at least five levels and something this is why I don't start people at anything below the third level
though because starting at level one unless you're doing it for story reasons is just so it's garbage fucking exhausting you have zero abilities zero features there's nothing fun about the class that you are every fight feels like cool it is it is a game of who hits who first
because level one level one party fights truly are a role of the dice more than anything because you don't have any features to like change roles there's no you're not getting advantage on fuck all unless you manage to get surprise or flank somebody which could look with that
and that level one that's crazy I mean hey some people do it but like it yeah it's just level one is absolutely a garbage level to start at and I'm sure some DMs disagree with that but I think if three is baseline I like to start at five myself I think five is a really great place to be because you
get your subclass and you get a couple of extra features you have your ability increase you have your fifth level things also fifth level comes with a lot of really fun upticks and damage like you get access to fireball all sorts of fun class stuff at fifth level
when you start to see like the big difference and like you definitely see like a there's a sharp difference between classes in level one because if you're having a barbarian and even using fucking sparrow and Eva who are the characters that we play and our little one shot that we built last season
seeing the difference in their levels of health and their levels of like usefulness in combat even at level three was fucking insane because let me tell you I was not doing jack shit so many fucking hits them or the entire
campaign and it was me realizing oh cool a sorcerer is really fun to play in a either a large party where there's multiple people were alternatively when they're a little bit of a higher level so they can do things because right now I am dead fucking wait and the fighter over here is kicking ass because you don't need to
like yeah you don't need to do anything else but hit people man yeah like there's certain class where it's like cool hands and the hands get better as you get higher but also like you could still fucking punch things at the first
level you have a higher hit dice you have generally higher AC like you just you don't have to worry about a lot of the lower level bullshit when you pick a more martial martial incline class because you know the row fifth edition were like hey if they're going to be fighting people then maybe we should give them the health in the AC to fight people which is great and it's also a
thing of like when you're playing a spell casting class a lot of the time the appeal to that is like oh I'm going to get to do so many cool things later in your things are constantly changing and changing and changing as opposed to martial classes which they're less like dramatic increases or like
access to I suddenly now have this thing that I can do that's a game changer it's a lot of time it's like slightly improving things that you can already do and then just making them better as opposed to like a spell casting class where it's like
multiple times and now you get advantage on that first hit yeah versus sorcerer is now like cool you have access to six new spells that's not a real thing but like it there's a there's a steep difference there yeah
I think it'd be a user a website pretty often I'm sure I've shouted out in pretty previous episodes but it's RPG you're RPG bot net yeah it's absolutely fantastic I don't know who runs this site or who does all of the typing and the writing but shout out to them because I have used this for so many things they rank character classes
so nice they rank subclasses they rank spells for those classes and subclasses they rank features they walk you through how to make certain builds and like what like what decisions to make
so like my research for this episode is a mix between RPG bot and then just straight up reading the player's handbook anyways towards the bottom of their page they have some example builds of different classes multi-classing into different levels and I was just going to read through a couple of those to give you all some examples of what that can look like because I don't really multi-class a lot often
I have a list of fun multi-classes that I'll do after and those are better
so when you start with Artificer for those unfamiliar with what an Artificer does they build things and they use objects you can turn objects non-magical objects into magical objects they're also really famous for using basically guns in just about any setting
it might not be labeled a gun it might not be able to do as much damage as a regular gun but it's a gun and if they don't have one they can build one some DMs and some rules in different universes like guns are like super rare and like the gunpowder is like impossible to make without like dragons
there are some settings where you're not getting a gun and DMs are just getting that's just the way the universe is but then there are others where it's like everyone has a gun everyone has a small gun or at least an Artificer who's a whole class or a whole build of the character is to make a gun
I'll let you do it
but I think this first one is fun which is one level in fighter and then any levels in Artificer so starting with level in fighter gets you heavy armor without giving up efficiency in constitution saves and then Artificer classes don't already have heavy armor so that boost your AC by a shit ton it also reduces your need to rely on dexterity
so that's just kind of like a fun way to make yourself healthier is a martial class without actually having to do like any of the dexterity stuff because generally if you're a fighter your AC is going to come from
it's going to come from your dexterity so you can actually like take the fun stuff in Artificer without having to get cut and put a lot of bunch of useless ass levels into
dexterity right so like basically what that looks like to me or what that translate is is you want to be a healthy dwarf who doesn't actually want to have to run from the fight but still wants to be an Artificer you don't have to worry about your initial AC in the beginning which means you also don't have to be fast you can just sit in the back and you can fucking build mortars or I don't know hit people to hammer as they do whatever you want
this next one is at three levels in in thief the rogue subclass and then our rogues sorry rogue class thief subclass and then Artificer what that gives you is the ability called fast hands which allows you to use an object as a bonus action
I mentioned earlier that the one of the fun things that Artificers like to do is interact with objects that's like 99% of what they do so you're just going to speed run your abilities so you Artificer so what would normally just be one action as an Artificer interacting with one object you now functionally have to
which is so much better yeah essentially like having that the extra attack is as a fighter or as a barbarian but now you get it as an Artificer because you're you're able to attack with those objects that you're interacting with
yeah yep yep yep what else we got here so then barbarian example built so this one is rogues the subclass assassin three levels in that and then any number of levels and barbarian so assassins assassinate feature basically works really well brutal critical which basically makes your
critical hits a lot heavier and a lot harder and then assassinate allows you to get into those criticals easier and basically just allows you to like you can improve your initiative roles this way you can capitalize on stealth so putting those like three levels into rogue basically allows you to really increase your chances of actually landing that critical hit in the beginning of the fight which is usually when you want to do them
I mean it's great if you get it like at the end of a combat encounter but being able to add on sneak attack damage and get stealth surprise and improve your initiative roles and hit with advantage and be harder to hit because of dexterity you're a goochie and you're a barbarian so like ideally you don't get hit a lot because you're hitting harder than other people so now you're a rogue that can take different features that also allows you to not get hit like being able to roll half on anything and then just
take half damage yeah that's insane that feature pisses me off to absolute I know how much it pisses you off because you could fireball a room and a roguelgo actually know fuck you I take half damage guaranteed and if I beat this role I take zero damage instead are you telling me that the fireball in the room doesn't hit you because you're a rogue
that is the crazy part to be that should prerequisite for not getting hit by a fucking aoe spell of it's a rope and it's like cool you're in a room that is the same size as fireball basically so it feels like a nuke is going off and just trying to also figure out like flavor wise how the fuck are you what are you doing that this is not happening to you
explain that to me give me a good explanation there because you being like oh I fade into the shadows cool there are none you are in a small room my guy
literally like it doesn't make any fucking sense um clerics I highly recommend multi-classing and I'm not really going to go through a lot of the examples clerics by themselves aren't particularly that strong um in my opinion like they're they're great because they have access to things like Divine Smite um in different versions of smite which are not nearly as powerful as paladins but they have a smaller version of it what they excel at is healing people but if you're not in a party where healing people is super important
even some of your other subclasses that aren't focused on healing people kind of fucking suck because there's only one thing that they're good at but multi-classing and to literally anything else gives you a little bit extra shit that you can do with your spells
I also think it's a very fun way to lend itself like uh because almost every single class for the most part has like several of the same things where it's like cool it's the devil one and then it's the divine one and the holy one and like I think just flavor wise it would be fun to do something kind of like um building a divine soul uh sorcerer with like a cleric of light or something like that just for flavor purposes I don't know the actual mechanics of that I think I've looked into cleric and sorcerer and it's actually
not that good um also another thing you can definitely think about multi-classing cleric and paladin but it's why though it's awful why you're gonna have a bad time it's basically just gonna tank both of the things that you could do in either of those classes that are good and it's you're just gonna be unable to do all of them
so cleric is gonna be wisdom and um oh my god what wisdom and charisma no it's not charisma for what paladins cleric for cleric it's wisdom like it's just with oh it's just wisdom cool so cleric you're gonna get wisdom and then paladin you get to choose between strength or charisma and that's three different spell casting abilities
so you're just kind of fucked there because if you're trying to optimize you kind of want to like dump stat and the way I play is I try and get and a lot of people play this way of like trying to get your main stat up to fucking 20 as fast as possible
you can't do that if you're working with multiple spell casting like like abilities or whatever the fuck um because you're gonna be spread so thin that you're not gonna be as um powerful and as capable as someone with a 20 in their individual
spell casting ability
there are a couple of just kind of googling on the internet there are a few other more like classic combinations so like we mentioned earlier like Madison mentioned earlier Barbarian fighters very popular multi-class option
they pair together super well because they rely on the same ability scores and often times the same combat strategies they both really benefit from high strength and high constitution scores
and typically have a bigger focus on melee combat that's not always the case with bards but like why the fuck not
yeah and then of course just having access to reckless attack is any class period is incredibly hard to pass up
it's good like no matter who the fuck you are and then you can get action surge and bonus rage damage and then it's just like it's fucking crazy man like the things you can do with Barbarian and fighters are crazy
you can action surge and then reckless attack and then also be in rage that whole time so you can just fucking crit constantly or at least have like a 19-20% chance to crit for basically three different hits
yeah
because you can take your basic attack one two action surge take another one two and then you can reckless one of those be in rage for all of it and just advantage advantage advantage advantage advantage fucking nuts
oh it's it's insane
the only issue is that you can't use heavy armor while you're in rage that's the that's the feature that you would be swapping out there so it means that you have a harder time getting or an easier time getting hit
but the idea behind the barbarian fighter combo is that you don't get hit because the people that you're hitting typically go down before you do
yeah you just hit them four times with like 2d12
yeah and is one of those things of like any time that you're multi-classing with a barbarian
rage kind of rage is so good and it fucks up everything else
yeah rage is very much one of those things were like it is the ultimate class feature in the most notable thing about barbarians always will be but like also is very hard to work around as any other class that uses any kind of spell casting in particular because you fucking can't
you cannot
and if it's constitution or if it's something you have to keep up concentration you're fucked is gone
yeah it's and then the inability to use heavy armor and everything which makes sense because also you shouldn't be a literal tank like you're already playing the role of tank and just heavily armoring yourself like
yep
there's another if you're going for like an ultimate tank build barbarian and druid specifically pathotodem armor subclass and then the druid circle of the moon subclass to basically allow you to wild shape and then take spells like bark skin which makes your base AC 16
and then you got all those other fun benefits from being a barbarian and a druid and you essentially have the ultimate like damage mitigation character period like fucking a paladin you could be a druid barbarian and then wild shape and have resistance to basically every damage type while also having an AC of like 18 or 19
yeah that's fucking insane
you might not be doing a whole lot of damage because you're going to be casting spells as opposed to going into rage but who the fuck needs to do that when you have a party to spellcasters behind you and you're only job is to stand in front and have
basically 90 health with mother fuckers having 90 health with an AC of 18 and resistance to every damage type minus psychic
yeah it's
like you could basically just stand there like every combat and do nothing like if you really want to know
like legitimately it's just like cool try
yeah it's like that's really cute you thought you could hit me but you can't but you can't and it's not even because I'm fast it's because my skin is so fucking thick and my skull is so large you can't touch me
it's like I am physically and like I am I am a wall a literal wall in that you were get fucked you were get fucked
yeah
so you have one you'd like to talk about
yeah I was about to I'm going to kind of start interjecting my own in between these
I'm going to share some characters that I personally built and played and why I enjoyed them the characters that I said that I played was a straight rogue
originally I had her multi class and then I ended up scrapping that big like no fucking I'll play just a rogue mistake so her original build was a warlock of the deeper battle less warlock or whatever the fuck the one the ocean one is and then she was a swashbuckler rogue
and I don't have all of the stuff written down but it was also for flavor reasons which was she died at sea came back swashbuckler is like a subclass of fighter in a lot of cases by the way
yeah
sometimes it's its own class there's a subclass of it in fifth edition
yes I just took the rogue option because I don't fucking know that's what I went with
I don't know I did it I'm not sure why I did it
it was a choice I made for sure but that was once again for mechanical purpose or flavor purpose because I Davey Jones was her patron because she died at sea and got brought back to life in a like a fucked up way she was a reborn
and so being able to stack also because I take with my multi class because I love coming up with fun character builds I oftentimes do take the race into the builds with one of my favorite ones that I've done semi recently which was this character named
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Harmony she was a protector as a mar and was three levels in paladin oath of devotion and seven levels in bard of whispers
fun fact when you multi class with paladin or multi class in general you don't have to tell other people at your table what your multi class stands so this is the one that everyone was like oh she's a paladin
and she introduced herself as a paladin and the very first thing that she did in the session was a bard ability which was mantle of whispers which is when a humanoid dies the 30 feet of you you could magically capture its shadow
and everyone went the fuck kind of paladin are you as it was described that it looks like she ate someone's soul but the reason I really like kind of like building these together
one having any levels of like paladin with an asmar you already are going to be getting some base level healing with an a playing an asmar with healing hands
but then you're basically just able to like stack all of these all of these things together and one of the things with paladins is you get smites which are fucking great
but you have a limited number because you only have so many spell slots so anytime that you're taking levels into another spell casting class
you're going to and once again I don't know if this is really in the rules but like we had whole conversations about it when I played my first character and she multi classed
and I had like in depth conversation with Robert of trying to figure out how the fuck multi classing worked and I was like do I have to keep my like warlock spells my sorcerer spells different and I'm not allowed to cast
like do I still know the spells and I can cast them using different spell slots and blah blah blah so I basically having so many levels in part I had a lot more spell slots and I could just smite like a motherfucker
because technically you can use like any of your or I don't know if it's specifically paladin spell slots but once again that could be something that I could get checked on but this is the way that we played it at the table and then I was allowed to do it so it's also up to your individual dm
because sometimes you get to say fuck the rules to do something cool but there was just a bunch of fun like things that I could do I could hit things and then I could also have like spells that could do kind of fucked up things
and it was also mechanical thing because I wanted her to be like a very evil little fucked up girly and Bart of Whispers is a great option for that
Bart of Whispers is a fantastic option for that
my other one and I'm not gonna go through like all of the things that she could do just because by the time we ended up where this character was at the end it was just so much I'm not gonna bore anyone with it
but was that character I've talked about that I played previously talked better in the podcast on several episodes named Magnolia
once again this was a multi class that I kind of took for flavor text I was like cool we're gonna multi class this she's a wild magic sorcerer main and she finds out that she has like half the soul of your mingunder the world serpent
I end up killing myself and then I come back to life and I was like hey I'd like to kind of like I originally it was a rogue multi class and I was like I'm not really fucking with that can I take warlock and have the patron be your mingunder
and it was like cool that makes mechanical or like flavor text sense but it was a lot of fun mostly because of the spells the having the sorcery points and being able to convert some of these spell slots that I got into sorcery points
yeah so fun fact sorcerer warlock multi class is fucking memed by a lot of people in the community because it is game breaking
it is because you essentially having your infinite number of spell slots which means it's just one person taking an incredibly long time because they can cast whatever spell they want as many times as they want
there's no limit on how fast or how short a spell has like there's so many fucking things you can do with the warlock sorcerer build and it's just kind of an eye roll sometimes because it's broken
like why do anything else it's be anybody else it may be for the character but also bear in mind if you're doing a sorcerer warlock build you have to be a very specific type of person and I don't mean as a player I mean like as the character you're playing because I can tell you right now they're not a good person
yeah most likely not like your character is built inherently to be selfish because cool guess what you can do with both of those classes you're not going to have a lot of healing or any like really support like if like a lot of the times those classes are not support blending
so all the stuff is going to be for yourself which is great if you're playing like a more selfish way but being able to use those sorcery points and be like cool I'm going to like fucking twin spell or I'm going to empower spell or quick end and just do fucking spell after spell after spell
and then you also get to use those on much higher levels because of the warlock thing it's like cool well I went from having like this many or I think at the end she was level 15 and I can't remember what the actual breakdown was I have it written down somewhere else I have it written down my phone
if you want to complain about that class again for two seconds
yeah I was going to talk about a different combination really quick
oh wait I found it
yeah it's okay it's okay you'll be here you're not going anywhere Ranger Rogue is also a really fun one because you basically get to take advantage of all the dexterity based stuff
it's also one of the easiest ways to actually make the Ranger class useful beyond being able to do like things at range so fun fact the Rogue has just as many features and capabilities of being excellent in ranged combat as the Ranger does
but the difference is you could keep all the fun things that a rogue gets access to with none of the dumb shit that Rangers have
yeah
so pairing several things together hunters mark which gives you an advantage on a specific enemy sneak attack which obviously gives you a shit ton of extra dice
and then using different fighting styles essentially every time you hit somebody with a ranged attack if it's your preferred target you are rolling a fist full of dice and it's all damage
yeah Rogue is a good
and it's with advantage
I think in terms of like the two best classes to mold if you're going to like play character maybe take even like one to two levels in like either warlock or Rogue I think is almost always beneficial or at least it's always beneficial for me
yeah somebody likes to do damage
yeah
I love damage
yeah we know we know
anything else
anyway I found that it was a 13 levels in sorcerer and five levels in warlock specifically great old one warlock and wild magic sorcerer it was very fun
super fun to interact with this damn
it was also one of the fun things was from the warlock thing I could tell it pathically communicate with any creature within 30 feet of me and then also that's like a fun thing to yell when you have a wild magic surge of being like cool I guess I got like five fucking seconds to tell everyone around me what's happening before I like
either bounce or everyone gets fucked or whatever the fuck happens
I thought you were
do you have anything else
I mean I feel like I'm in fucking time out right now
no you're not in time out you know in time out and just this is probably going to be a shorter episode than our other ones because I don't really see where else we go from here
no that's fair
I thought
I think we could build a
that was my thought is that maybe we take our two characters into the multi-classing area
yeah
we could do that just kind of give them an example walk them through even sparrows thing
should I multi-class our into warlock as we were just talking about
I see we're cutting this part
yeah no we'll cut this part
do you want me to go ahead and hit the button
yeah just so I have a better idea of where this happens I mean
there's a pretty big gap in there where we stop talking but I mean whatever you want to multi-class into it's really we're not going to be playing with these characters for at least another few episodes so
I know I just didn't think about
what I want to do for her
I don't have time we're only about a half way through how much time I allotted for this so
okay then I'll probably take a second to take what I want to multi-class into
mm-hmm
tchuh tchuh tchuh tchuh
I'm just sourcing it out of there
get three levels of room for just some class
mm-hmm
yeah just all the taxis being used to you and it isn't taking a turn in common yet
and importantly though it also turns out there's a sense of tax what the fuck
tchuh tchuh
I'm just sourcing it out since we were 14 but
heh heh heh
okay
reading this list
what I was looking for is like two good things to multi-class sorcery and two
um
number 12
barbarians shut down sorcerers spell casting which is terrible
benefits of barbarian sorcerers
barbarians with this physical damage while raging
it can make memorable roleplay for non-serious characters
hell yeah it does
do you just want to take them up to five do you want to take them up to ten
I mean I just went on a rant talking about how you shouldn't multi-class until you hit five
so maybe like
I'll be good to take them up to even number or we can take them up to about number I can say we can do seven
interesting let me do eight
benefits of roach sorcerer multi-class
cutting action to boost the sorcerers survivability
yep it means you're not going to get constantly kerfucked
every combat
yeah pretty much man
also rocking with a god damn d6
d10 man I'm not going to d10 over here
fucking good for you
he was a big bitch man what can I say
now we multi-class baby
now I'm rolling with 5d10 and 1d12
this fucks
god this fucks
oh this fucks
this is crazy
I'm doing fighter barbarian
so maybe pick something that like
you know something different just so they get like
four different
oh tracery cleric
that seems odd that seems
no because I just realized
she's going to get compared to fucking jester for critical roll
because she's at pink teeth length
and this was going to be a protector of elix
god damn it
how close does that have to have a further more danger since elaxia
this was at the farthest of the weakness next to her baby
I'm going to play this one
because 1d class is always the fighter's ability to use
that's
I want pallidin but that just doesn't make sense
I think I got to take battle rager to get
reckless attack
I feel like I have to do war like it's just the best thing for multi-class sorcerer with
totem no I don't need totem
I don't need some berserk
I don't need to use the
I don't need to use the berserk or the pallid
I don't know what the difference is
I don't know
what the difference is
I don't know
that's fun
I
I think we also
I
I was gonna say I don't think you long rested
yeah you sure did
yeah it's okay though
I don't know what fucking paladin that sparrow is
uh I mean I probably warlock if I had to choose
that's the issue I'm running into is now I've made it this character already has personality
it doesn't make sense to her to be paladin yeah maybe that's her arc becoming a good person
I didn't even mean that way I just meant she's very non-martial
and the like and the fucking so unless uh Eva is taking some fucking spells
no no it's fighter and barbarian dogs what do you mean spells
yeah you're welcome oh I did nine fuck me
just going to ten fuck it
going to ten
oh boy so many fun things I can rage
this is fun three damage on successful grapple
advantage on deck saves versus anything I can see
advantage on strength based melee attack by granting advantage to attacks against me so
I can reckless attack I can't do I had my con mod to my ac when I'm not wearing armor
twice a day advantage on strength checks and saves teal damage oh that's so nice
two attacks grappling oh my god this character be so fucking fun to play I would never lose
uh I would never fucking lose I just wouldn't be able to use any of her ranged abilities which
is fine it means I would have to go back and change her subclass as a fighter
yeah the oras are nuts the oras are nuts yeah
yeah I wouldn't get it because I'm not going to be at level seven but
the oras are fucking crazy dude
why are why are paladins like that why are there no paladins that are just a little bit chill
where's the oath of having a good time nope why is it all gotta be that much
it's a very serious business being a paladin
I don't want that
it's a very serious business
uição
anger
two
I'm only nine off for my max hit points is crazy
I have a 19 strength of 16 and decks of 14 and constitution and 12 and intelligence attendant wisdom and an eight and charisma
Wow
that's like almost up by 200 score
8 10 12 14 16 and I fucked it up with a 19
I feel like I gotta do arch bay for warlock
mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm
I have a plus three to my intimidation rolls but a minus one to everything else in charisma
minus one deception minus one performance minus one persuasion minus one charisma but a plus three to intimidation
I love does he even do a performance check
one plus five to nature for some reason
explain me how performance check was easily done
it wouldn't it wouldn't it's what she's in minus one
it wouldn't have a plus nine to hit with any of my weapons though
not
I don't have 50% chance to hit anything
ah
should I do fiend or arch bay, do you like arch bay if it's better
sure you can do arch bay
I'm asking for opinion not permission but I appreciate it
it's so much
no one listens closely enough I could lie in between episodes correct
don't remake the whole fucking character
no I prefer to take pieces instead of ability increases
but I don't feel like looking through all the pieces right now
so
then just lie
cool
come
get your shit over with
five and five
how ever you want to do it buddy
however you want to do it buddy
I hit my five so I'd get my class features and my ability score ups
just dumped all the other levels into the other class
I'm gonna have her be packed of the blade so like maybe she can hit things
and that's also why I didn't want to be fucking Marshall because he made that decision with the characters
it's gonna be no other magical weapon you've ever seen
she's gonna stab with mage hands
I want you to know that
I'm a mage armor expert
get shit on
she can't come up and start giving advice on things I was already doing
nah
evil with this blade
no
I said you're gonna get bigger to live longer and that's exactly what she did
the fuck it is
Sparrow started eating some fucking lean beef patties man
she did
she started bulking up
what is my cut oh fuck
nah
she ain't gonna get up so much
what are you doing there
shit
what do you hate me Marshall
why should you hate me
I don't have an issue with you
your beef seems to be with me man I don't have any with you
you're the one going eat shit
you
I don't know how good they are
but we've committed
and I have shit written down
hell yeah commitment things on the
app or paper whatever the fuck
app
roomie app
things on the app
you
he was gonna get so fucked
I've got so many area of effect charm things that you have to roll out of
the bitch is standing next to me
I don't think you broke your fuck if any of those go sideways and she ends up having to hit you instead
why the fuck would she be hitting me
she's not a very intelligent character
I'm aware I'm so
I'm so I'm saying what's her intelligence
that's 10
she's not that stupid
10 is average
look at mine
interesting
I started with a 20 and
well fucking min maxras
no I fucking roll dipshit
well min maxras I know I got stuck with fucking
point by bitch
min max and I still do better than you in combat
I'm playing a spellcaster
shit of your stats
that's crazy
it doesn't matter
crazy dog crazy
I hope you genuinely eat shit a little bit
don't have an disadvantage for the reason of reason of reason tags
I can look crossbows faster at bonus action
I can't crossbows
that's cool
four five one more level up
Barbarian
my elder's blast is gonna be great
alright you ready
yeah I can be like two seconds
one
two
so fucking funny
one
two
um yeah
you wanna try again
no
you wanna try again
no
go ahead try again
I'm so fucking tired from it
go ahead max try again
I'm so early
okay that one's fully on you
try again
so now we're gonna talk about
how we would multi-class eba and sparrow which are our characters that we made
forever ago in our season one finale
well we made them before that but we played them in our season one finale
and more than just like a combat breakdown so
a quick TLDR eba is a fighter
Goliath who specializes in ranged combat
but is also sort of an expert at using any kind of weapon
she's based loosely off of the character abbey from last of us
her name is abbey but backwards
it is abbey but backwards but boy does it fucking work
she's huge she has a military background so she's very like soldier forward
in combat focused there was a lot of banter between the two of them about like
getting bigger in surviving and you'll be pleasantly surprised to hear that
sparrow took all of her suggestions to heart
and now excellent at surviving
what is sparrow like
sparrow is a pink tiefling wild magic sorcerer
she's a kind of like a robin hoodie type kind of like a dashing rogue
not like the class rogue but like the character archetype
very like devil make hair never tell me the odds
I'm in this for the gold I'm a little bit of a con artist
she has a I see Madison play this exact character several times
it's a fun trope and I play them in different flavors
okay you can't say like sparrow is objectively a good person
is a little bit more like the robin hoodie magnolia was just a bitch
and there was a difference there yeah yeah yeah
do they have the same bills now
uh huh yes but I'm not but but I debated it
and it was just mechanically the best choice make but anyway sparrow has
a fun back and forth with Eva where Eva likes to think that she's telling sparrow
how to survive and uh sparrow is like I'm a full grown adult who has been
on the run from the law for years I know what I know you were telling me things I already know
and then sparrow gets finessed in combat and then Eva has to come and save her life
or the life of a civilian that she almost lets to hide
and she has better stats than Eva by like a fucking mile
seven eight ten twelve immediately got charred eight ten twelve fourteen fifteen eighteen
eight twelve fourteen fifteen eighteen you have a fucking twenty
you don't have anything below thirteen you would have died
it's so would you so would you
you fail like four checks in the opening monologue to save civilians
that was fine they were fine
three people die yeah well
what what who carried fucking sparrows ass in the combat one shot we did
you were down for the last three turns of combat
I'm like a god damn third level sorcerer
who got charmed who got charmed
who actually lives longer than two rounds of combat when they get hit
who lives longer who lives longer who lives longer
but you know I'm not going ease on Eva I'm throwing her into combat because it's what she's good at
not my fault you suck oh my god I'll kick your ass it's not my fault
I will kick your ass in real life it's not my fault
roll initiative motherfucker let's go
anyway we will be classed up to level ten so I did a real simple build with Eva she was
being the spike in the volume on the she was a level three ranger with a specialization
arranged combat because Abby from the last of us is good at two things hitting people
and shooting people so I wanted to do the same kind of build
so I had three levels of fighter and then I took her up to fighter level five
just to get that ability score increase which I threw into strength because it's the shared
between barbarian and fighter and then I dumped five more points into barbarian up to level ten
so at the third level for subclass I chose battle ranger which is not everyone's favorite subclass
especially on rpgbot.net but it's the one that made sense for the characters that's the one I fucking chose
it revolves around having advantages while wearing something called spiked armor but also rage
cucks you out of using certain kinds of armor so whatever
but now I can reckless attack I also have two attacks and then for a feature that I took instead of an ability increase at the tenth level
or no it was at the eighth level I took a feature from
well I don't have as hard of a time picking through the list as somebody else does so anyways
I picked a feature that allows her to use her crossbow as a bonus action
after and allows her to fire with it after making an attack with a one handed weapon
so functionally what this looks like is she can take a swing with her little battle hammer at one person
and do like 1d8 and then immediately fire at another motherfucker across the room with a crossbow
which works so well for a character who in a video game does that exact thing
so I got really good at that
I'm also HP is 103 which is 7 off of the max I could have I have 5d10s and 5d12s
again my scores are not nearly as good as Sparrows but I don't really give a fuck
fun thing about Ibo she is not very charismatic she has a minus one in every single thing charisma based
except for intimidation where she gets her Provision Z bonus and she has a plus three
so she has a minus one to deception performance and persuasion and charisma checks in general but a plus three to intimidation
if you played the game you're very very well aware of how this works because that's exactly the fucking say way it happens in the video game
loosely based
loosely based indeed baby
it's not loosely based
I could have made her a human instead
I don't care I guess
loosely based
see there's any other fun things that did so with my fighting style being archery as well I have plus two with my ranged weapons
so it means that hitting that crossbow shot is going to be a lot easier
and then because I have fighter I have superiority dice so I can burn those into doing a number of different things
grappling because she's very large and she's also going to do damage on a successful grapple
three specifically as long as she's not wearing heavy armor her speed is also going to get upped by 10 feet
so I can move to get those those multiple attacks which is really nice because you can break those up you don't have to do them all in the same place
and then my AC goes way the fuck up because I get to add my con mod whenever I'm not wearing armor
so if I'm just wearing no armor
and just like a loose garb which is kind of how the game works as well she's just wearing like military garb which is basically a shirt and a jacket
I get to move an extra 10 feet and my AC goes up without having to take any disadvantage to anything else
which is pretty nice if you ask me and I can rage up to three times
so I can also do the rage multiple attack
reckless attack and then still do the crossbow and the one handed stuff so
I built her very very basic
not a particularly like crazy or outrageous multi-class thing really I could have just put three into barbarian or three into fighter and then put the rest into the other classes
because really I only needed to get the subclass features of one or the other
but you know when I doubt middle it out she's martial all the way around
the only reason I really want to barbarian was to get that extra bit of health because she's a very healthy character
she's very large and to be able to rage as well there are moments in game where after you get a melee kill you can then immediately go into another one without having to do any of the extra animations
so I like the idea of that looking mechanically of her being able to go into a rage and then reckless attack two hits
and then potentially land a killing strike with her crossbow because the chances of her missing are like zero
yeah
she does what she does very well
fair enough
um I am I am I'm I'm moving on to
yep
fair sure um I'm actually switching her because I refuse to play to a wild magic sorcerer warlocks
um so now she's going to be a storm sorcerer
um
it must have been really painful for you
get fucked
it must have hurt so bad
fucked
this is going on the list of episodes where there's a real life fight
what was the subclass you chose for warlock
uh I'm getting there
just what was it really quick
archfey
oh okay
I haven't done that one before
right
calm down
okay I'm just making sure
just making sure you're you know very in and up a little bit
I am
okay mind your business
she likes to play a lot of the same character builds
I have literally never done that
I've never
okay I'm gonna just
it's all damage
it's all about having the most amount of spells
and then she just makes them look a little bit different
I like to play a specific way and I'm not gonna apologize for that
tess tess
anyway um I
I'm so I've gotten so in this fucking argument that I'm like
a little like thrown off
um anyway so she has
uh six levels in sorcerer and four levels in warlock
I really wanted to get to um at least six levels in storm sorcerer
because you get a fun little thing called heart of the storm
which you meet which means you get resistance to lightning and thunder damage
and I fucking love lightning bolt as a spell
um so I would love to keep using that
and you also get a fun little thing at first level storm sorcerer
um which is you can use a bonus action
to fly ten feet up into the air
without provoking an opportunity attack anytime that you cast something up up
the first level which is pretty fucking sick
um and then for choosing archfey
I was kind of told that we were gonna be
multi-classing these characters on the fly
and I normally like just like be very meticulous about what I do
so this is also be like going through and figure out what my character is gonna be able to do
as you all are hearing it
but I decided to go with archfey because it was one I haven't done before
and I think that kind of fits her character in terms of like this like
kind of like trickstery um con artist vibe
um and so I'm gonna be able to get
who's in a physical fight
that's not the f-
ow
ow what the fuck
I'm so sorry
what the fuck
what is wrong with you
I'm so sorry
Jesus go ahead and tell the listeners what you just fucking did
I'm from her
god damn
I'm so sorry that
I'm afraid that the mic picked up on that
oh it did
it bounced off the fucking mic
I got mad and I threw
Robert was talking shit
and I threw a pen at him very hard
and it bounced
and now he has the pen
and I know that he does
and it's in his hand
she's just mad that Eva bodies the shit out of Sparrow
and then
that's not the question
that's what I asked
and that's what I got
I know but like that doesn't
that doesn't fucking
you wanna go hit with a pen
I said who wins in a physical altercation
and then you threw a fucking pen at my face
so in real life it's me
yeah I'm not gonna throw it back
but anyway she has a 20 in charisma
and I also took one of the invocations
for warlock
it is going to allow me to do
1d10 plus 5 for my Eldred Flast
I'm gonna get to cast two of those
every time I do it
and then because I'm a sorcerer
I can also twin spell that
or quicken spell that
I can twin spell Eldred best
I can do four beams
which is something you're normally
supposed to be able to do
once you reach like what 17th level
I haven't written down somewhere
but I don't have a full up right now
so I can do that
I can also
I got to hit more than once
I took an ability that
also from elder to invocations
that allows me to do Mage Armor
without expending a spell slot
so I can automatically
she took Eva's advice
do that
no get fucked
get fucked
get so fucked
you need to find a way to protect yourself
and you know what she did when she leveled up
she did Mage Armor
it is magical
I already had Mage Armor
you dipshit
now you can do it better
I don't know what energy
the whole second half
of this fucking episode has had
but it is rubber presiding
now you can do it better
that we're going to physically fight
I haven't made that decision at all
she's going to let Eva die
that's if she doesn't die first in combat
she won't
I think if Eva decides that she's going to sit this one out
you're fucked
I think that Spare can hold her own
are you telling me that Magnolia
the other sorcerer warlock that I've played
are you telling me she could not hold her own in a fight
I'm telling you she could hold her own in a fight
because I gave her insanely broken magical items
oh my god
even without her magical items
and her abilities that are like way beyond
what other people in the party have
even without the magical items
by herself no way
you know why
because every person in combat
was trying to kill her dumbass
and other people had to hop in front
that's not my problem
right so let's revisit the question again
do I think Magnolia by herself could survive
fuck no
yes
no
she lost a 1v1 to Keelor like four times
he was a god
point being though in that universe
no
she would have lasted a fucking day
I didn't even say it in a fight
okay
a day
I'm going to be the bigger person for once in my god damn life
I'm going to take my fucking shoe off
and throw it at you Robert
I swear to god
she's dying
it's not even a bit
so quick
I'm going to untie my fucking shoe laces
so what are the rest of Sparrow's features
what else can she do besides
twin spell elders bless
and cast a beige armor better
what's up your ass today Robert
what is up your ass today
fucking magical characters
I hate them
that is not my problem
that is not my fucking problem
anyway she could also cast calm emotions
which is going to be very helpful whenever you're playing with fucking Robert
hell yeah dog
I also have something called Faye Presence
which starting at the first level
I could make anyone within a 10 foot cube
originating from me to a wisdom saving throw
against my spell save
which is a fucking 17
and if they fail that then I get to choose whether they are termed or not
I will choose whether they are termed or frightened by me until the end of my next turn
which is pretty nice
it also gives you access to a couple more spells
and now I'm also going to have access to the warlock spell list
which is pretty exciting
super fun
because I'm going to be able to pull shit from that
when it comes to a spell casting character
you have to like look through spells
just figure out what school about it
and I don't really have time to do all that
because it's not as easy as just punching things hard
so um
I punch things hard and fast
and better
and also from a distance
good for you
I can do your whole range thing
I think one whole range thing
that's like the only thing that spellcasters have on
the martial characters is they can do it from a distance
they can also like banish people
yeah
I can banish people too
by putting my fucking hammer through their skull on a crit
no I mean like I could just look at you and go all out
yeah send them to another realm
I'm fully aware of what banish does
I know you are
well I banish somebody when you can just kill them
with seven attacks
maybe because I don't want to do that
I don't know it sounds like a skill issue to me
oh
mmm
hahahaha
she just can't count that high
it's okay
there will not be any episodes after this
this is a final episode of table talk
hahahaha
that's it throw my shoe in a room full of very expensive equipment
any other features
um
I don't know I didn't really have time to look at all of them
uh
but uh the other
the other fun thing you can do with sorcerer warlock builds
if Robert would shut the fuck up for ten goddamn seconds
is I could take some of those sorcery points
or some of those uh
spell slots that I get from being a warlock
uh which is
uh I now have uh five second level spells available to me
I can take some of those and be like cool
realistically I'm not going to be able to need to cast
four first level spells
five second level spells
and uh three third level spells as a um
level ten character
or even like
like level ten
total character
um so I'm going to convert some of those into uh sorcery points
and I'm going to just be able to spam whatever spells that I want
or also be able to quicken spell
and um
twin spell as much as I want to
uh which is really what I like to use sorcerers for
because a lot of the time
you can do multiple things on a turn
as opposed to a lot of other spellcasters
where you really only get your like main action
um I also
we tend to ignore the rule that you can't cast two spells in a turn
because
AY
I blocked it
Robert just threw a pen at me
actually I didn't
um yes you
I didn't
what the fuck do you mean you didn't
I didn't
I did this and then set it on the table
you dipshit
I thought something hit me
nothing hit you
I didn't throw anything
am I going
are you gas letting me
no because yesterday you gas
swore on my life
yesterday
swore on my life
in front of his goddamn family
tripped me and I turned around and said hello
and he was like no it wasn't me
clumsy ass bitch
I didn't throw a single thing at you
I am having a stroke
why are you like this
you're the one that threw the pen at me first
why have my shoe back
no you can't have your fucking shoe back
I have to drive home
you can walk over here and get it at the end of the episode
okay
anything else
okay it's a little does besides cast spells better
I guess I'm fucking done
I haven't had time to like read to my abilities
because I've been on the fucking defense this whole time
now as much as I give them
truly the thing that annoys me the most is that
they just have more options than martial characters do
like I got one thing that I do really well
and I can do multiple of it on one turn
which is cool
I give but I can't cast spells
oh I also took back to the blade
and smite
shout out to Iba
not shout out to Iba
shout out to Iba
I Robert I'm so serious
encouraging people to fight
marshally
back to the blade baby
we will fight marshally
back to the blade
we can fight marshally in real life
listen Ima said you gotta get some hands
no no no this is not about Iba
you gotta get better it's taking hits
and you know what sparrow did
this is not about Iba
sparrow turned around and started eating spinach
and eggs exclusively
and got really fucking yoked
we're not making decisions
she hits people with martial weapons now
big head
she has a higher A.C.
she does it all
she does it all man
he was doing her doing
I hope you choke
he was doing the work man
I'm here keeping sparrow alive
I recognize that I'm
I'm just feeding into it
but like
you are so infuriating as a person
and I can't not
it's the same shit of like
I'm in trouble but I was little and they're like
you get bullied because you're so
like you react so much and I know that
but I can't not react
so anyways
are you in the fun feature you wanna talk about
fuck you
in your multi class sword for warlock
because I didn't get the freedom because I've been on the fucking defense this whole time
not really
I can do phantasmal force calm emotions
very fire and sleep from archfey
those are the ones that get for free
without like going through and looking
that's nice
I don't have a single fucking cantrip
that's so depressing
I have so many
do you want some of my
there's a whole dedicated portion of this app
where it's like martial weapons
and then there's like cantrips and spell slots
I mean I'm sure ours look very similar
and that one page is very full and one page is very not
but I have eight
yeah
eight cantrips
zero
the biggest problem that you'll run into because the sorcerer
cantrip lists and the warlock cantrip lips
lists are virtually identical
that's why I just let her get rid of cantrips
so that she could actually like cast spells and do other things
because dear fucking lord
I get it
for some people that's fun
but like you know mechanically
what does that do for you when you can cast a single spell on a turn
yeah I mean like I love cantrips don't get me wrong
but half the time if I have the ability
well what other cantrip is there when you have access to elders bless
exactly
but most of the time you're not
it's a trick question there's not
you're not going to be doing enough damage with any of your cantrips
to like make them beneficial enough
you're going to spam the one fucking thing
that the wizards of the coast gave you
which is elders bless
and then you're going to twin spell it and do it four times
and then you're going to cap your damage
and when it stops being great
I'll stop doing that
which isn't a thing
because not only is it the best cantrip in the game
but there's a class entirely dedicated to taking features around it
so you can just make it even better
also I can use magic and guidance
so I can use the sorcery point to re-roll a d20
which is another fun sorcerer ability
which is fucking annoying
yeah
wild magic sorcerer is just fuck you I roll what I want
and Robert experienced that firsthand
yep
actually I'm going to re-roll that
actually you're going to re-roll that
actually you're going to roll that with disadvantage
actually I'm going to roll this with advantage
between that and having a fucking
I'm going to get kidnapped
I'm going to get kidnapped by a chronomancy wizard
in the same at the same
oh my fucking god
storing rolls and in reversing people's actions
and
it was a fucking annoying combo
absolutely absurd combo
I was fighting time itself
it was that was great for me to watch
I hate it every bit of that
your goal as a DM is to like kill your party
it's not
it is for you personally sometimes
is that not true
you can make it difficult enough that there is a real chance of death
my goal is not to kill my party
I stand by that
you want to down everyone in combat at least once
mmm
these are words I have heard you say
it is a fun milestone to have downed everybody in a giving campaign once
which I've already achieved with this one
but um
so chill
yeah
I know what it is
but I don't aim to kill my party
I aim to give them an experience that feels challenging enough
that they at least think that there was a chance that they could have died
I have heard Robert say before a session
my goal is to kill you
yeah because there are some people that just make fucking character builds
where the entire goal is to just survive
so of course my number one goal in combat is going to down you
either way
this is all
this was a bit for me to then tee up to say
my goal sometimes as a player is to make my DM cry
just a little
haven't achieved it
you will never
no you had a breakdown in Harlequin though
but I didn't cry
no you didn't
I will never shed a tear for you at that table
not for me
or anybody else quite frankly I refuse
I will not give you all that power over me I can't do that
I will not
this is the most straight man experiencing emotions concept I've ever heard
I can't
I can't allow that weakness
you cried during that one shot
yeah I made myself cry
oh fuck off
I made myself cry Madison
because that's how good I am at this
that's not how it went
that's just acting
I was so good I convinced myself
that's just acting
I do that every day
it means I'm a great actor
that's what makes you feel
it's not even my field
don't fucking stop whipping
I don't know what has been your thing
anyways thank you for tuning into our latest episode
what is your problem
table talk
we will see you next Thursday
maybe if I have a problem
bye