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Hello players who try to play chaotic neutral but always end up playing

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waffle neutral and DMs who write character backstories that'll make the opening

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crawl on Star Wars look like a one-liner. Welcome back to Table Talk. Welcome back.

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I'm Maddie and I'm Robert. What do we have on the dot is docket the word? I feel like I've

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said this on the podcast before. Docket's the word. Okay. Yep. On today's docket we're

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talking about how to ethically DM and how to like be a moral player which sounds

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like a very heavy subject. I think what was the title for the episode? It was like

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chaotic good players in a lawful evil DM. Yeah so it's just gonna be talking

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about like how to be a good person as a player where to draw the line as a DM so

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like my first note was does racism have a place at the table? Which is you can't

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say it's not a heavy episode and then start with that. Yeah for sure for sure is.

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But like racism in particular we've talked about this before several times

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like why do some DMs or universes in the fantasy world insist on having

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racial tension and racial relations that are negative. But I think part

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of that it's kind of two-sided in the sense that like on one hand why does it

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have to be at the table and why does it why does it belong in fantasy but I

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think the other thing is like as much as we love to think that fantasy is so

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like different and far removed from us the one thing that we as like a common

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people have always done is discriminate against people that don't look like us.

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Yeah and so I think it's incredibly hard to write a fantasy world where at

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minimum there's not like family against family or tribe against tribe like that

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tribalism us versus them is always there it just starts to feel a little

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gross when you like when it's just straight up racism. Yeah and when you're

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reading a source book and it says like members of this race tend to fall in

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this mentality. I think that. We tend to get shit on by others because of the

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adherents it's like. And then even in some source books I'm not gonna name names

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but there's a little box. Yeah we might have read a few of them on the pocket.

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That says here's what this race thinks of other races. That's crazy to me. Or here's

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the moral tendencies of this particular race like I don't know fucking this

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isn't true but like kinkus it might say like on a little text box next to them

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kinkus tend to be like chaotic neutral or chaotic evil because of and then

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insert something fucked up about how they look like birds to everybody else. Yeah.

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Or it's like dark elves tend to be lawful evil because they've been

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discriminated against by serving the dark lords like dumb shit like that. Yeah

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and it's a thing where like most I say most every instance of D&D that I've

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encountered in my life and like that I've talked to people in their tables and

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the way that they play. None of that really has a place at the table because

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there's like all this stuff in the source books that you'll read about like oh

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well tieflings are like discriminated against because of their eternal

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heritage and their evil and blah blah blah and it's like well I think that like

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no matter what race you are in this world you're still a person and I think

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that once the whole thing like we're like complicated every race even today

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like in real life earth like every group of people has their hillbilly every

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group of people has their snob like everyone every race is gonna have their

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group of dickheads that just are a little louder than the rest of the people in

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the room and so it's really easy to point and go look that's what they're all

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like. Yeah I think there's ways that you can subvert it and kind of like make it

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funny and game of being like no listen that's okay so yes there's that

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stereotype but like 95% of tieflings our infernal heritage actually doesn't come

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from like our mom talking a demon. Actually I'm super aware of everything

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I'm doing or like yes I'm an oracle or a goblin living in a cave but I'm actually

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a clean freak so fuck you. Yeah and I think so the first person that comes to

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mind when talking about that is Brennan Lee Mulligan who's done that with several

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characters where like they're inherently evil or they have like a more evil or

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kind of fucked up characteristic and then like in a one-off funny monologue

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he'll be like actually I'm a real person with real feelings yeah and I don't fit

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that stereotype. One of my favorites and like this is kind of the reverse of that

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it is in fantasy high that like the iconic monologue of like the buddy family

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is this like cute little family full of halflings like a nuclear family of

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halflings and then you find out they're like hardcore anarchists and he's like

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you want to make some bacon and they like Molotov cocktail and they blow the

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fuck up out of a police station and like that's another one of those like fun

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little subversions of it. Slipping the tropes on their head. This world exists where like he

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view halflings and this like oh they're these cute little harmless. Yeah like Lord

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of the Rings we're making yeah we're making fucking meat pies and walking

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around with Harry toes living in the shire just you know chilling in fucking

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hills. Harry toes is foul. Chilling in the hills of round doors you know. Yeah. Nah bitch.

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Cook the pigs. I mean agree. Are we gonna see that? No I meant in that situation. Oh!

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In that situation. Yeah I totally just meant in that situation. I just meant in that situation.

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Jesus. Never mind. Fantasy high god damn. Fantasy high. Strong fucking take dude.

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I mean hey listen. I think racism to get back a little bit off of off the range

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I think fantasy racism has its place in time. I think there are ways to do it

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tactfully and to do it meaningfully. I agree. But when it's just like you're

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living in a city that is discriminatory against elves and so 95% of

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your interactions in a city as an elf character is just fuck you. We don't like

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your kind here. Fuck your ears. Fuck you and your like long life living ass bitch.

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Like you're agile. Have fun getting shot in the face agile. Like it's just but

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there are sometimes truly we're like that's the fucking feeling is like I

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can't step foot in this bitch. No I mean we talked about that and that was it was

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something that like kind of came up in our previous campaign with the World

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Serpent is we were in Fairhaven and Fairhaven is a predominantly human city

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and I was playing a Elphin character and that was so loud. My bad. I use Soda Stream

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I'm not. Soda Stream sponsor us. Not sponsored but I absolutely love Soda Stream.

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I went to Germany for a week and came back addicted to sparkling water because

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I had a soda addiction in the US and then found out that the US charges

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probably about three times as more for sparkling water as it does for anything

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else that's carbonated or has flavoring in it. So I just yeah because you're one

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of like six people that drink it. Yeah well you know it's better than being

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addicted to soda so I agree. Anyways I love that Germany is what got you addicted

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and not being in the UK for four months. Because Germany listen the UK was like

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you can have sparkling if you want to. In Germany it's like you sit down at the

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table and they bring you two different bottles one that's sparkling and one

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that's not. They don't ask you they just give it to you. Fair enough. That is like

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damn this is like healthy bottle service. Anyways now I'm hooked on Soda Stream

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because it's the cheapest way to do it. What was I talking about? You were talking about

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Oh Jesus Christ. Oh Fair Haven. Yeah Fair Haven. Humans and elves. Yeah I was playing an

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elf character and so there were like a few like throwaway comments of like no

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you're very recognizable because you're an elf with white hair and you're doing

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magic in a place where like yeah there's magic everywhere but not in the way that

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you're doing it. And there's a difference between like you stick out because

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there are so few of you in a city versus being like well I mean just to

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compare it to like American racism. Yeah. Because you look different in the

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supermajority because you've been oppressed. Yeah. Right like there's just

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there's a big difference in that. And then we ended up going back in time in

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this same city and if. What are you doing here. Yeah and it got it got a little

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harsh because we had a Seder character. We don't like. Just like starts

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walking around and this is a place that's like already like like very very

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human. I don't know what the actual stats are on it but like in at our table.

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75% I think is what the human population is. But we like buffed it up and it was

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like mostly human. So the remainder of the 25% than is every other race. Yeah. So

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when a Seder shows up from a like a magical door and so you're rolling up

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with a Seder a warforged a high elf and then just a guy. He was just a guy. It's

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funny as fuck. And everyone's kind of like no yeah we're gonna take you in for

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questioning. It's just a little suspicious you know. Yeah and then it didn't help

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that also the Seder immediately like kicks the cop and starts running. Yeah he

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just like fucking go kick this bitch and then ran down the street. Before anyone

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could say anything and that's how we ended up in jail. And then he ended up

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performing his way out of prison as a goat god of death and scared the police

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department so bad that they let him leave. He killed a man via heart attack. It

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was wild. It was very wild and then actually ended up becoming his final.

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That was his final arc. His final arc was actually achieving that status in

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Theros. But anyways I think that's that's kind of a fun segue into ethically

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DMing and how to like when in where to stick to your rules of a particular

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universe. So going hey guys this is a fun fantasy universe but also you all

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just showed up with the most like chaotic group of people that would stand

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out like a sore thumb in the middle of a city. Like they're in a costume. Homegirls

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in a jester costume it's not subtle. So obviously cops are gonna come in and

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question you because number one it's a city and a super majority of humans and

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at the time that you all went to it was even more human than anything else. Yeah

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and then y'all just showed up through a fucking magical door. It started being

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loud as shit like like fucking questioning a flower shop owner and then

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of course the cops show up and they're like hey guys what the fuck is this?

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Where were y'all from? Yeah you haven't seen one of you before. Yeah and then of

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course the goat jumps up and then kicks a man in the chest and leaves. But like

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that was a moment for me where I was like I could have just been like the cops

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aren't really a thing or like it's a fantasy universe who gives a fuck if a

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goat shows up in the middle of the street. But also I like to play a little

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bit more realistic and kind of like a hard line what makes sense. A lot of

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people call it a head cannon. So like head canning that yes the cops don't like

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people with like goat hooves. Question is it head canning if you're the DM? I think

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sometimes it is though. I think no I guess that's fair because it's it's a

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line though because sometimes you'll set rules in your universe and then have to

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head cannon them differently or head cannon them away. Yeah. Well the other

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thing too is like this power says that I should be able to jump 75 feet. Can I do

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that? That's a lot. And head canning and it's like where you're standing and the

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like state that you're in realistically no. You're at one HP you've just been

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brought back from the dead and now you want to jump 75 feet like vertically

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like you're in healthy state. No incorrect you can give me like a dexterity

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saving throw but I'm not just gonna let you do it like that for me is what the

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head canning is I guess. So figuring out where like magic meets the realistic

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side of like being an adventurer in a stressful situation. There was a way of

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like not to take it back to like constantly examples from like our own

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experiences but that's how I as a person learn and relate to things. There was a

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moment where my character had a wild magic surge rolled and was basically like

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cool if you die with him in X like minute you're gonna come back to life

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you reincarnate. Fully different body and whole new yards. And I was just about out

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of spell slots and we were at a like tough point and so I was like cool I

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think the best way for me to get my spell slots back is to kill myself and

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then come back and I did and then you were like okay I know you want to cast

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spells I'm gonna need a long rest before you cast spells because you just

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died like killed yourself went on like a whole like one-on-one conversation with

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an ancient god and then came back to life. And like that's something that like

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makes sense and that's like I think that's bound in like rules of like

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whatever universe that you've created. Yeah but I think where it gets and this

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is kind of where the the ethically DMing is part of the sort of episode idea

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comes from is there's there's a line that you kind of have to learn as a DM when

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to fudge your own rules and when to just let things go versus when to stick to

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them. Like if your players are say they're in their first like their very

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first combat encounter and they're all looking like they're about to get fucked.

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This is a time where no you didn't have an NPC set up for this encounter because

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you wanted them to do it themselves but now you're gonna bring in a really cool

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NPC to come and help them and then maybe even like push the story forward to give

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them a character to latch on to versus like if you do one extra point of damage

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on this damage roll this player is gonna go down and that's gonna fuck up the

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whole encounter for everybody. Maybe they do like two points less damage just to

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give them an opportunity to get out of the space. I think a lot of times some

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DMs get really really caught up on setting hard and fast rules that they

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refuse to break like not fudging rolls or not altering combat encounters or not

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changing the DC for a particular check. Like sometimes most of the time I'll say

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give me a check and I don't even tell them what the DC is because I just want

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to know what they're gonna get. Yeah. Like I almost never give DCs because I

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just don't it's not that I don't believe in them I just I can't lie or fudge or

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make a more fun experience for them if they know that they haven't met that DC.

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I as a player prefer not hearing the DC. And sometimes I will give it like I'll

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give one to them like if it's like a big moment like again Dimension 20 like

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Box of Doomroll. Yeah. At that point I'm okay giving a DC or giving a hard line

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or a threshold or a really specific rule like when it comes to really tense

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moments where this is like the very like peak of the story or the big combat

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encounter and like this role is gonna decide everything I'm less likely to

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fudge those than I am just like getting people through the story or giving them a

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cool moment but like yeah most of the time I don't give people DCs. I'm just

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like roll roll a check if it's you know say they get an 11 and this is something

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that like realistically they would have had to get at least a 20 on you know a

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little bit but not a lot. But if it's something I really really want them to

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know and in my mind the DC was 15 and they hit a 14 I'm like bucket you know

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what they're smart people I'm gonna give it to them anyways. Yeah. And so that's

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kind of where figuring out for one what kind of a sort of oh how do I say this

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what standard do you want to set for your universe when you go out and make it

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like the one that we're playing and now is a lot less intense in some ways I

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mean it's there's certainly been combat encounters in story moments that

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happen very intense. We've died so many times. Yeah you have gone down a lot of

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times but in my mind that had that's happening because your first time

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heroes. Yeah. Your heroes that don't know what you're doing and figuring out how

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to interact as a group like even in combat you all still very much interact

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in a solo way you don't really fight together you fight separately. Yeah. And

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so part of that punishment then for me as a DM is like having you all go down

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more giving you tougher encounters to force you all to think together as a

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group because that's ultimately what like a party or a group of superheroes

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has to reach. Like the Avengers don't get good at their job until they work

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with each other again and again and again and again and learn how to play

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off of one another but like for the most the part I like to keep things kind of

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more light fresh like there have been several times where people have come

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close to almost like fully dying like dying dying in this campaign already in

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the first couple combat encounters we've have and I'm just I'm not gonna let

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them get to that point like I've had players like so could I have really died

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there. No like I'm not no we're literally like characters or six seven eight

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sessions in you're barely hitting like story like we're just starting to get

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some momentum on story points I'm not gonna fucking one off your character

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yeah on the third combat encounter like there's just no reason for me to do that

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and that's where I feel like ethically DMing really comes into play like also

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just be a decent person yeah and I think something I've seen when it comes to like

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fudging roles as well is like combat and health and HP and stuff I've seen quite a

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few people on TikTok because both of us are on D&D TikTok talking about how like

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some DMs won't set a like HP for their their like monster like whatever

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encounter that they're fighting and we'll just add up all of the damage that

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the PCs are doing and then just kind of call it when it feels right yeah yeah

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yeah quite a few times for for big bosses in particular yeah that's where

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that runs in like super clutch because it's like I could give this creature

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that realistically has like 500 health 500 health or I could just be like how

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many like big hits do you all get on him before he goes down or before he starts

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like having sort of disadvantage in combat and that to me feels a lot more

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fun yeah I think that stuff is really fun and I also think it's something we're

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like if you originally set like a max HP or something like that and then if three

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of your players crit immediately you'll free to fuck that combat encounter is

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about to like be a hell of a lot shorter than you free to up it maybe like

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that's when you hit like Dark Souls second phase shit like oh you thought

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you got him the first time now we get bigger and does more damage back yeah

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you're fighting a Hydra surprise yep for the same way that you can bring in PCs

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in or give players like a ridiculous amount of damage because you know they're

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gonna be able to survive the combat counter if you don't you can also do the

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opposite which is I want this thing to be more fun and last longer yeah or you

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bring in goons that's one of Robert's favorite things to do is you've got the

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big guy and then you've got a million little guys that keep fucking showing up

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just a few big guys and then players started to complain that they wanted goons

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to fucking dick on so I was like all right here are some goons to dick on but

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I'm not just gonna get rid of my big guy five goons and a crack in yeah but

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that's more fun for me because then I still get to have my fun as the crack

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in that it has a long like a fucking laundry list of spells and you all get

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to have your fun to tap and goons yeah it still allows us to have fun so yeah

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just switch a little bit from the DMs I feel like I've already talked a lot how

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do you manage that then unlike how to be like a good person as a player especially

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when we kind of talked about this I think last episode of the episode

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previous when you have yourself playing a character that is not an inherently

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good person yes it's it's one of those things where it's tricky because like all

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the things I've talked about of like staying in character and finding your

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character and blah blah blah blah blah kind of go out the window a little bit

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when you're playing an evil character like you have to be aware that you are

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someone playing at a table and also be aware of your character so this one

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affect other people yeah I would suggest if you're like first getting into D&D I

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cannot highly suggest enough playing a like morally a little bit more of like a

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morally aligned character like a good character simply because it is easier

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because when you're getting into like playing a fucked up person how do you

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like how do you be evil but also still be like a good player because it is a

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team game you have a party that you were supposed to be helping and so you have

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to like kind of actively think about okay what is actively going to help the

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people at my table and like the other PCs but is still true to who my character

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is and it's a really tricky line to toe if you are playing like for example if

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you're playing like a what's a like more fucked up alignment not like chaotic

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evil chaotic evil crazy to be playing a chaotic evil character but if you're

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playing a chaotic evil character in a party full of people who are not chaotic

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evil you're gonna have a really fucking hard time you're gonna have a difficult

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time because it's like okay especially when you consider like chaotic evil is

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like I go around and kick puppies and burn down just because it's fun it's the

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Joker uh-huh it's crazy so it's like how do you put like Batman in the Joker in

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the same party and like have them work together and bond and like I think the

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easiest way to do it like Superman in the Joker because that's like Paladin and

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somebody's chaotic evil yeah yeah and that's something that I think is really

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difficult and I think that there's some like easy cop-out ways for it I think

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you can make like the party be like the people you actually like and you take

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out all of these chaotic evil things on other people but then don't be a fucking

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murder hobo and don't like I am that's another kind of like real for players

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and like don't be a dick because we talk a lot about don't be a dick but what does

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it mean not be a dick at the table yeah don't go around just feel fun yeah don't

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take away other people's moments and like insert yourself yeah I think the only

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time you really need to be playing like a true like chaotic evil character and

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you're open it's another thing if you're playing a secretly evil character

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which is a whole nother ballgame yeah having an all-terrier motive is so much

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different than just being a dick from the rip yeah like it's it's sometimes

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twists are a little bit annoying and overly cliche but like it's it's a very

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different situation if you're playing a lawful evil character who masquerades

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is like a lawful good character and is maybe has a goal of like stealing the

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crown jewel the whole time or like they know that in a really crucial key moment

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they're gonna let all the other players go yeah and then trying to like string

294
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them along for the campaign because then it's like a fun game of like detective

295
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yeah and then it's like holy shit didn't see that twist coming yeah which is a

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DM that twist can only happen once because your other players are not gonna

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then bring that person back into the fold no if you if you set one player up as

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a fucking spy from the get-go and then they they do like their big reveal

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moment and then try to kill all the other players that shit's happening once

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that's happening once happening once you're getting fucking jumped yeah that's

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going to PVP that spy character may or may not die regardless they're

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skedaddling and you're making a backup character person that was a spy but you

303
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can also have a journey of you can start off playing an evil character with

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ulterior motives and then maybe you start to actually like the journey and then

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maybe you decide that these guys aren't that bad and that you'll help them that's

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where it's like I would save every one of these players if it meant like if the

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alternative was like sacking the world yeah yeah that's when that like ulterior

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bad person motive turns into just like I'm gonna make the decisions that other

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people don't want to make I'm picking my friends any day of the week yeah and I

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think one of the like funniest things and one of my favorite ever is like

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that team and Bahamut fight when y'all like this is not worth it yeah skedaddle

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it happened so many times in our first campaign y'all this ran y'all like so

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many times we were just like I'm gonna cut my losses this is not my fight this

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is not worth me this realm can get KO'd I'm gonna go that should happen and like

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we even had it set up for a little bit where it was almost like it looked like

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there was a possibility of like it going PvP with like a spy character because

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one of the characters was brought into the party with the like the entire task

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of kidnapping and subverting them one of the characters party yeah but then he

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ended up like basically falling in love with that character wait which one

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London I was talking about Caliban London oh well I mean oh then there were two

321
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there were two kind of there were two that were basically supposed to like fuck

322
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up Caliban in particular though yeah yeah Caliban's literal task from the like

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the bad guy was hey he had to go kidnap this girl two separate players okay neither

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one of them worked they both just got folded into the party immediately I

325
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tried so hard I set up two characters with like full motivation to do the wrong

326
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thing and neither one of them stuck to it yeah and it's one of those things were

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like a mother fuckers I'm listen Magnolia was just that she was just that girl

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she was also one of those things you're all friends in real life and so it's

329
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real you forget about the fact that you're supposed to be at your core evil

330
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person when you're just having a good time we have friends yeah and that's fine

331
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let that happen and it was one of those things of like the the character

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Caliban immediately found like a new thing that he was like actually I am

333
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worried I want to become rich yeah he's like it's a 180 out of nowhere and was

334
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just like capitalistic yeah you know what's more fun than getting like my own

335
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ranch in a separate universe what if I just introduced capitalism to like the

336
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multiverse and be at the center of that scheme wild uh-huh wild situation it was

337
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wild as fuck but like even with the first one immediately just getting like

338
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folded into like the party and it's something we're like even if you have

339
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and like one of my favorite tropes ever is like reluctant bad guy we're like

340
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reluctant like when you're watching a show and it's like okay the bad guy has

341
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to team up with the good guys and they don't want to be there and the good

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guys also don't like working with them but they have the same goal that you

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have so it's just and I think that that's something very fun that you can play

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at the table which is like I don't want to be here I don't want to do this but

345
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motherfucker I have to so I guess I'm gonna heal you and I guess I'm gonna like

346
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put all these protection spells on you and I guess I'm gonna like lay down my

347
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:22,360
life for you it was like we got a offer for dogged on this guy but we got to

348
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keep him alive he's crucial to all the info like he's the key to all the

349
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information that we need to know so like we've downed him but now how do we keep

350
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him alive when there are other combatants in the game including a player

351
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that's just determined to see him die yeah and that was another moment of like

352
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I think there's ways for you to ethically have PvP at the table other than

353
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just like straight box in each other yeah and that was something we had a lot in

354
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our last campaign just going back and forth on like objectives is like is one

355
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that's a really easy way to do it without having to introduce straight up

356
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like combat v combat just having players at the table that have like

357
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contradicting goals they're gonna intersect at some point and when that

358
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happens it can be fun and there's ways for you to be a little like evil and a

359
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,840
little fucked up without taking an out on your party members if you have a

360
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completely ulterior motive and it's something that goes against what the

361
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rest of the party wants try to convince them well that's that's a whole

362
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another like thing that you can do as a player yeah that happened with me in this

363
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in the campaign that I'm still in I played a paladin and well still I'm still

364
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playing a paladin paladin with the redemption oath which basically is like

365
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you're a Jedi but it's the extreme to which you won't even kill bad guys like

366
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Jedi I'll still cut a set in half like there's no qualms about what they'll do

367
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with the lightsaber they just try to do it from an emotionless objective

368
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perspective trying to be yeah trying to be like good people my guy was just like

369
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I'm not gonna let anybody die I'm not letting the goblin die like I was hard

370
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like started the campaign which I talked about this a couple sessions ago I've

371
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ended up in a very different place to the point where I've been smited by my

372
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patron god but I started as like I'm not gonna let anybody die everybody can be

373
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redeemed you can you can turn them around and set them on the right path I

374
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turn a couple of cobalts that were eating people like cannibalistic style

375
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cool a couple of tinkers and we have them in our house and they make shit for

376
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us now I call them the Teenage Mutant Ninja cobalts because that's literally

377
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all they're there for they've been reformed Jerry he used to eat people

378
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,880
sorry I've got a list I've got him now he now he makes weapons of mass

379
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destruction for us in the free time so that we know I took tinkering

380
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:42,000
he makes like cute little like they made me a suit when I like yeah it just

381
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,360
depends truly like they're artificers genuinely like there's one main guy

382
00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:48,560
that's smart and the other two are stupid so it's just like he he sends them

383
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,120
to go do what they need he'll make that they go shopping for us all the time

384
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:56,520
it's funny as fuck but anyways the other one of the other characters in the

385
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player or one of the other players in the campaign was like lawful evil or

386
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:06,240
chaotic evil and wanted to like find the seedy underground and like work for the

387
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:11,160
big boss and at one point was like I have a job let's go do it and I was like

388
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,380
being naive sure let's go do the job yeah and then it turned out we had to

389
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kidnap somebody and then sell him to another like another organization Jesus

390
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and it very quickly turned into like this is gonna be combat like I'm I'm

391
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,240
asking you player-to-player roll fucking initiative because I'm sticking to this

392
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you are not selling a man I don't care what the reason is he's like no no no

393
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like there's a reason I promise like you just get through the fucking deal and

394
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we'll talk about it after knowing no hey this shit sucks do you have something

395
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,000
you want to send in to make it better criticisms topics you'd like to see

396
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,320
discussed or an advertisement you'd like to run maybe you even want to sponsor an

397
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:53,040
episode if so shoot us a message at MC460 at evansville.edu or DM us on

398
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,800
Instagram at Crescent magazine or we'll never get better like these fucking

399
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guys absolutely not and that's one of the things of like the good good ways for

400
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:09,800
PvP to emerge is is from like objective and from like motive and everything but

401
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,480
the thing that get that got hard about that was I could see genuine frustration

402
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,800
from him as a player because he had so many goals that he knew if I was along

403
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:22,960
for which we're a party of like three so we go everywhere together anytime I was

404
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,360
present or with him or around him I was ultimately gonna be the foil to his plan

405
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:32,080
yeah like every time and that's one of those things where like as players you've

406
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:37,280
got to find ways to kind of like figure out and address it and if you and I mean

407
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,320
you could do that with a one-on-one conversation with the other player for

408
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:47,000
sure but I think there's also ways of like I'm not like lying to your party

409
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,880
all the time but like lie to your party tell them that you're doing something

410
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,280
different so when the person you're lying to has like a plus nine to insight

411
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:59,440
like half fun well yeah like it just it gets tricky though like genuinely and

412
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:05,040
there was a point where I was like I don't want to keep like you have it on

413
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,560
a point in here like don't don't talk don't insert yourself in another person's

414
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,960
like peak story moment or emotional moment and I could see that there was

415
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,320
genuine frustration with him because there were a few big moments where I was

416
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:21,280
like I cannot let this happen and I stuck to it I think looking back at it a

417
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,560
little too much yeah like I think there were definitely a few moments where I

418
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,800
could have been like I'm just gonna turn to blind eye I really like you as a

419
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:33,280
person like I easily could have pivoted that I'm gonna let nobody do wrong into

420
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,840
I'm gonna redeem you as a player yeah I'm gonna let you do what you're doing but

421
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,360
then I'm gonna like read the tear Bible to you at night and we're gonna we're

422
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,480
gonna figure this out where I can fit you and I didn't I was just like nope not

423
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,240
gonna let it happen and I mean it's something you'll always have characters

424
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,120
that you look back on and you're like oh I should have played that better which

425
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,600
this character has gone through such a wild arc I mean he went from that to like

426
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,040
I'm just gonna murder people because the world clearly has no consequences for me

427
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:02,520
I can do no wrong to I don't have any eyes God complex real quick which is I

428
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,440
don't have any eyes anymore and I'd like to get them back someday so I'm that's

429
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,560
fair I'm a chill I'm gonna stop hitting people I'm not gonna lose the attitude

430
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:14,440
but I'm gonna stop killing people that's fair like but anyway how do you be a

431
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:20,840
good player because we talk about not being a dick a lot yeah a good player to

432
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:27,920
me as a player like from another player is someone who is supports like what

433
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,480
you're trying to do or can you pick up on like what you're trying to do your

434
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:37,400
objectives roleplay better yeah aids in your story and like just kind of like a

435
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:47,240
support is genuinely like the biggest thing yeah if you see that a player is

436
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,200
like really trying to do something or this is something that's so clearly

437
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,920
important to the character and they keep bringing it up and bringing it up and

438
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,280
bringing it up help him out a little bit you as a player helping them out that's

439
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:02,400
what I think makes you a good player and like not always choosing yourself over

440
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,760
another character because I think some of the most impactful moments in D&D are

441
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,120
when you pass the baton or past the moment when you help somebody in that

442
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,040
someone else yeah hundred percent and so I think that like just considering

443
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,600
other people truly I think is like the biggest thing that you can do to be a

444
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:21,440
good player and I like I like providing concrete examples so I think a really

445
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,400
good example of that could be and I don't have a situation in mind but like

446
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:30,120
with the Paladin I know there have been a couple times where like we have we have

447
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,040
like a where bear character who's like whole subclass class has been basically

448
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,680
homebrewed because he wanted to basically just play a fucking bear and he gets

449
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,360
angry a lot like he he has I don't think he goes into raids I think he's a

450
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,080
fighter but there have been a lot of moments were like his big like peak

451
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,000
moments were him getting so angry at somebody that he wanted to kill them and

452
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,680
me as a Paladin like the way that I would assist them in those moments as a

453
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,720
player was like okay for this one moment for this one instant I will turn to

454
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:01,280
blind eye I will help you get what you need and then we're done or like they

455
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,520
as a player what he would like look at me the pleading like I have to kill this

456
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:10,160
person I have to kill this NPC as a player I really really don't want to but

457
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,360
everything that I've done up to this point means that I have to so then the

458
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,760
way that I kind of try and support him in that moment is I take my character and

459
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,440
put myself directly between his character and the person he doesn't want to

460
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,280
kill yeah and then be like and then it's a fun thing where it's like me like hand

461
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,520
on both chests trying to push people away like listen I'll lay my life in the

462
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,040
line if it means that you don't cross that moral line for yourself yeah and

463
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,400
then like it's a fun like hide of emotion kind of moment for both of us I'm not

464
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,080
taking it away from him he's still doing 95% of the talking in this moment but

465
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,880
I'm gonna insert myself to give him more to go off of and help him as a player yeah

466
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,200
until I continue to aid in his objective and I think that that's like one of the

467
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,800
best things that you can do as a player like for another player and I think that

468
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,920
once again we talked about like playing evilly and like how do you do that and I

469
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,400
think that you can still do that and still aid other people I mean if there's

470
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:03,880
a moment where like you are like your character the first person that came to

471
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,680
mind was Ricky I'll talk about Ricky when you get down here right Ricky to me is

472
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:12,480
that person oh my god Ricky is a minute I love Ricky but if you as a player are

473
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,360
playing like a character who is your entire year your oath of revenge

474
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:21,600
Aladdin you're good and Robert just kicked the fuck out of me for anyone

475
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:26,760
listening yeah oath of revenge you were trying to kill this one person but you

476
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,160
know that like you're a relatively with like the exception to this guy you're a

477
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:35,720
normal person and someone else in your party is like recognizes okay maybe this

478
00:34:35,720 --> 00:34:38,800
person has like an evil character and trying to figure out a way to get this

479
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,120
player to stop killing this other like the bad guy being like okay they've got

480
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,280
valuable information I'm gonna hold the PC back and let them like and kind of

481
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,880
what you were talking about I'm like due to talking and being like okay but also

482
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,520
like I'm still gonna get my kind of like motive and objective in there and I

483
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,200
think that there's lots of ways to do that keep them alive just long enough to

484
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,280
get your shit just you know shit over with and you're done but the doing the

485
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,880
the trope of like doing the right things for the wrong reasons are doing the

486
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,280
wrong things for the right reasons like playing that evil character that's like

487
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,200
willing to do what other people won't Ricky is like fucking textbook example in

488
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,840
my mind Ricky is an NPC in our newest campaign about superheroes he's best

489
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:18,120
friends with Dakota who's playing Sebastian they both come up in like this

490
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,600
area called the Eastern fringes which is basically just like a really low kind of

491
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,800
impoverished industrial area and Sebastian's character is like more of on

492
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,240
the up and up he doesn't really get involved in crime he doesn't really give

493
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:33,920
into the local gangs he very much is just like there to help his aunt and his

494
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:38,160
sister Ricky on the other hand is like actively in the system he's like if it's

495
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:43,680
not gonna work for me I'm gonna work for it and it's just fully in crime syndicate

496
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:49,360
trying to get a part of a game like the new crime boss in that area but he's

497
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,960
taking the approach of also like protecting the people in the east the

498
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,080
eastern fringes and he's done it several times now specifically with Sebastian

499
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,040
there have been two moments where Sebastian was gonna die Ricky was in

500
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,000
both encounters and I mean we're a group of superheroes or y'all are a group of

501
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,520
superheroes right so like the goal is to like not kill people ideally just

502
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,320
because there are consequences like some people's goals other people at our

503
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,880
party just don't give a fuck yeah the consequences in this world of killing

504
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,240
people are like the city begins to trust you less and less you all get a negative

505
00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:21,480
PR the police are actively hunting for you versus like the Avengers they're

506
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,760
working with you they're giving you information they call you went on big

507
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,680
jobs you might get called a bootlegger a couple times but guess what people aren't

508
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,240
trying to kill you exactly or arrest you bounty on you so and so forth but Ricky

509
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:33,280
is one of those characters where it's like my top priority at the end of the

510
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,040
day is like making a bag and keeping my best friends alive and so he has just

511
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,520
flat-out shot two people in the face yeah because Sebastian was about to die

512
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:46,240
yeah and I think it at the table like Dakota and Sebastian kind of reacts in

513
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:50,280
this like I can't agree with what's happening but like thank you for keeping

514
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,560
me alive in this moment we're gonna pretend that didn't happen yeah it's a

515
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:58,840
lot of like kid it's just ignore that mm-hmm and we're gonna ignore the fact

516
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,400
that you are on a massive amount of speed right now but that's like another

517
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,200
one of those instances where you can have characters that are like because I

518
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,840
would consider Ricky like chaotic evil but not in the Joker way more of like an

519
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,440
opportunistic way yeah Ricky at the end of the day will still show up for his

520
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,760
friends and be there for his friends and save his friends but like his his ultimate

521
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:21,320
into the goal into the line where I want to be he wants to be Convother he wants

522
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,400
to be like on top of the food chain yeah wants to be running the gangs and father

523
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:30,440
is the like money like the big mob boss yeah got doxed and then outs but like I

524
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,080
would label him chaotic evil but he's still actively performing good actions

525
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,400
for a party and like that's a fun way that you can introduce a character that

526
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,040
has an alignment where instinctively you're thinking there's no fucking way

527
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,200
they're working with the party yeah nobody told Ricky to stop because Ricky

528
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,120
Ricky was helping Ricky was being helpful in that moment not on the way that

529
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,200
they wanted him to be but like the alternative to him not being there and

530
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,600
not doing that was losing a player and that's another thing that you can do

531
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,600
like as a player of being like okay just because you're playing an evil character

532
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,000
or an household character doesn't mean that you can't care about people I think

533
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:06,800
it is a hundred times more impactful and it is more grounding and it is it is

534
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,760
truer if you do care about people and if you love the people so fucking in your

535
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,880
party it's gonna make things so much easier for everyone involved because you

536
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,400
can do that you can be the like evil little fucked up guy when you're fighting

537
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,480
people you're interrogating people and you're like hey guys don't worry you

538
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,280
don't have to get your hands to the shadow I got this I'm gonna go beat the

539
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,800
fuck out of this person I'm gonna interrogate you here's like it here's a

540
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,360
couple dollars go get yourself ice cream I'm gonna like and that's very much like

541
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,560
a thing that is happening and like our campaign is we've got a character named

542
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:44,640
the shadow who's diet Batman and like but like a lot and like like tortures and

543
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,920
beats the fuck out of people and then you also have members in the party like

544
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:52,360
my character nightlight who is just a fucking ray of sunshine and she believes

545
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,480
like you're a baby she's spent one of her entire turns where she could have been

546
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,080
doing some cool shit moving a guy that she knocked out out of the way because

547
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,280
she didn't want to accidentally run him over with a car and kill him because she

548
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,280
would never kill anyone which I love that I love that so I mean we have them at

549
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,760
the table we have what are called heroic moments so the source book that I'm

550
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,760
using I think it's called capes and crooks I did buy it it's fantastic source

551
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,120
book I could have shed on it truly I love everything that's inside of it but one

552
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,440
of the mechanics that they introduced for this superhero universe is heroic

553
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,240
moments essentially whenever a player does something particularly heroic you

554
00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:30,600
say I'm gonna reward you with a heroic moment and they get a d6 they can add to

555
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:35,280
any role and when Madison slash nightlight made the choice to move the

556
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,760
guy out of the way like spending a whole turn instead of immediately going and

557
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,800
helping her friend I always like heroic moment hundred percent didn't make a

558
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,760
whole lot of sense to some people at the table because they were like everyone

559
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,280
else was just killing bitches yeah but like the fact that you're gonna spend a

560
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,120
whole turn staying true to yourself and your morals doing something not

561
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,760
necessarily heroic but you're not you're taking like the active decision to not

562
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,880
kill somebody for convenience which is very much something a villain would do

563
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,040
or a lawfully ever character would do workout a evil character would do like

564
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:09,000
heroic moment and I think that's a fun thing about that mechanic in this game

565
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,200
is it gives me a much more direct way to tell people when I think that they're

566
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,640
staying true to their character and when they're performing like morally good or

567
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:20,880
morally like on the up and up actions whereas traditional 5e doesn't really

568
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,360
have a system for that like one of the things I really like about like kids on

569
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,720
bikes in that system is they do these things called adversity tokens which

570
00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:32,360
you get every time you like you don't fail a role yeah if you fail a role which

571
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,680
is super awesome then you can use those as kind of like points to get yourself up

572
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,960
to another role love to start rolling that inside and I'd love to start rolling

573
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,200
that into some of my campaigns and 5e because I think that's I think it works

574
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,000
I think it's really cool your character is fucked up on six different roles in a

575
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:51,240
row yeah you're just gonna get tired of it yeah like and I'm ready to like shit

576
00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:55,160
to work yeah and avoid the player fatigue of like and this also I guess kind of

577
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:59,600
goes back to like fudging roles and like ethical DMing of like if you notice

578
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,960
that a player is really struggling because they just keep like eating shit on

579
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:07,040
all of their looks like really down on a particular roller is like damn I was

580
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,480
just one-off yeah what fuck it rule of cool you got it dude yeah or even just

581
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,080
reaching out and like this has happened before I the one that comes to mind for

582
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,200
like at our table was like the pirate one shot if I was playing this character

583
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,000
and it was my first time playing anything that was not a spell casting

584
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:27,200
class I was playing just straight rogue which I don't recommend and we were like

585
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,480
doing some fights and I just I couldn't fucking do anything I could not hit

586
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:35,480
anything I it was just shit and so Robert had an NPC basically just come in

587
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,960
and be like cool he's gonna stand next to you and fight cuz you need assistance

588
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,320
right now but I'm not gonna verbally say that you need assistance and help right

589
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:47,240
now but like I'm gonna notice a moment just like shout out to captain not the

590
00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:52,040
full hell man oh my fucking one of my favorite characters I have ever rolled

591
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:59,640
played it's like if Johnny Depp is like Captain Jack Sparrow like it was on

592
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:04,600
speed yeah or what he was like more of a direct dirtbag yeah it's like he's every

593
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:08,800
HR violation and deny that he's cool as shit but goddamn you wouldn't bring him

594
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,040
to it like you wouldn't take him home you wouldn't party you're not hanging out

595
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,560
with him you don't want to tell people your friends with him nope he's your

596
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:20,440
boss yeah he pays you and he's competent enough yeah hate that he's competent but

597
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,960
it's one of those moments where you're like just helping people out I think is

598
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,320
like the biggest thing that you can do assistance is like a hundred percent key

599
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,920
and when you're talking about being a good player or like an ethical DM like

600
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:34,560
just don't let people struggle if you don't absolutely have to like there are

601
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,560
times and moments in a story where like that's this is kind of this is like a

602
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,600
thing that a lot of the ends like the joke about any people who play D&D like

603
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:46,080
trauma is the key way to build a character yeah to an extent like by all

604
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:51,120
means feel free to step in in in unright a situation so that a character or a

605
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:56,000
player doesn't have to go through like needless pointless suffering like yes

606
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,000
it can be fun yes it can be cool yes it can make fun character development but

607
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,960
also there's no reason to fucking torture your characters for an entire

608
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,200
campaign just for the sake of doing it yeah and it kind of got to a point in my

609
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,760
first campaign and a little bit in the second one where I just kept throwing

610
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,400
negative consequences in circumstances and backstory points to like certain

611
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,480
characters and I tried to back away from that as time went on because I realized

612
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,920
that I mean dark and gritty universe is fun but we're not playing fucking Warhammer

613
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:27,880
40k like yeah D&D and it's just a very different situation which my last I

614
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,440
guess my very last point that I wanted to hit on that I kind of talked about the

615
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,960
beginning but I'm just not remembering at the very end there are times when you

616
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,760
have a really clear idea for a campaign as a DM in a setting and your players

617
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:47,320
have a very different outlook so like I mentioned I like to do hardline rules I

618
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:51,160
like things to be more realistic and more weighty that's just fun to me I'm

619
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,840
also a difficulty junkie in real life I love playing like Dark Souls I love

620
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,440
playing Last of Us on the hardest difficulty like I just love the stakes

621
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:02,800
and the consequences and the difficulty but like Madison is not a fan of that

622
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:09,160
no play style of that I like feel and some other players thrive on fucking

623
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,440
combat and are so here for all the difficult circumstances and just love

624
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,480
to make characters that can like get through that shit but like going into

625
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,520
this campaign I had a conversation with Madison and it was I Madison was like I

626
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,920
would love to have a superhero world that wasn't so fucking dark and full of

627
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:28,880
like bad shit and is like constantly difficult and like unnecessarily full of

628
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,240
trauma and we've certainly had a couple of points here in the early in the

629
00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:35,480
early stages of the campaign were like it is a little fucked up and it is a little

630
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,600
dark but it is significantly more forgiving of a setting than my previous

631
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:43,360
ones have been yeah but I'm still having fun and I think that's really important

632
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,560
as a DM to take away like yes you can make concessions for your players and

633
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:51,920
yes you can write your own universe and be very hardline fast but like at the

634
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,240
end of the day you're playing the game to have fun like it's a game like that's

635
00:44:55,240 --> 00:45:00,560
what it is it is a game system it is a role-playing tabletop game system and so

636
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,920
I think for me what really helps is to have a goal of every session to make

637
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:08,440
sure that everyone had fun like yeah I had fun that they had fun sometimes there's

638
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,920
a story point that they missed and I'm like fuck it if one of you wants to

639
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,440
sacrifice a thing in this moment I'm like itching to tell you what it is you do

640
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,760
it I'm telling you right now like that this is what it is because it's just like

641
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,480
a fun moment that I want to share with them yeah I think a lot of times DMs get

642
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,320
into this like us versus them mentality and it's or me versus them and sometimes

643
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:30,200
it definitely is in combat and you don't get like and sometimes that's fun

644
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,160
though where it's like a competition it is fun but then other times it's just

645
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:38,080
like really man really yeah really I think it's fun to have that mentality at

646
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,200
least from my perspective I think it's really fun to have that mentality during

647
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:45,680
combat but I think during story moments it's like story moments and like during

648
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,680
like down time and like role-play moments you have to do that yeah it's like

649
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:54,800
that feels that was unnecessary necessary at all but like my whole point for that

650
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,400
is just to have a conversation with your players as a DM and vice versa to figure

651
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:04,320
out what kind of a universe you want to have to play in to be in how difficult

652
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:09,800
do you want it to be how easy do you want it to be like I am queuing up a

653
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,920
couple of ideas for campaigns for not this next semester because that'll be the

654
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,720
second half but the semester after that and a few of my ideas were like to do

655
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:21,120
two guys in which is a very popular anime last of us which if you all seen the

656
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,320
show played the game the first thing that comes to mind is it's very Game of

657
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:28,200
Thrones ask where it's like anybody can die there is no good in the world zero

658
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,560
light in anybody's eyes it's all fucking bad every time you think you're gonna get

659
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,480
a sense of like good or happy it's bad again because you live in a real world

660
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,400
with real people and I straight up told them in the little descriptions when

661
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,120
they were choosing which one they wanted to be and I was like last of us is

662
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,320
going to be the most intense campaign we've played so far like it's gonna be

663
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,920
like a you get we're not doing HP you get hit three times by any particular

664
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,360
enemy or three times total in a combat encounter you're down you're infected

665
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:57,240
yeah like you have at most like a few turns before you will fully turn into an

666
00:46:57,240 --> 00:47:00,680
enemy and it's just gonna be brutal like everyone would have to have backup

667
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:04,280
characters and so on and so forth versus like the one that we ended up landing on

668
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:08,760
which is gonna be sci-fi based in Mass Effect universe one of my favorite game

669
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:13,000
series it's gonna be a fun sci-fi space opera yeah we're not gonna do a three-hit

670
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,080
system people are still gonna have hit points and shields and so on and so forth

671
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:20,680
and guns and it's gonna be fun but it's not gonna be last of us and I set that

672
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,800
expectation very clearly because I'm not I don't want players to be blind

673
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,320
blinded when they get hit three times by an enemy and then have to fucking kill

674
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:34,600
their character yeah so just time that conversation so important going in yeah

675
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,120
set expectations expectations in general for everything in life not just andy

676
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,280
but like set expectations for yourself or other people because it just means

677
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,160
that when you finally show up to whatever you're doing the table you have fun

678
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:49,840
yeah and you're not let down yeah which is very easy to do oh yeah and that was

679
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:54,640
depressing anything else you want to add before we close things out

680
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:59,800
um that was just my last little point I know that was a really good point because

681
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:03,200
one of the things of like there's always like the jokes about like oh there's the

682
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:10,440
shopping episodes or like the masquerade ball episodes I love those things but I

683
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:15,000
also recognize that a lot of people at our table that's not their speed and

684
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:20,920
that's okay but like some people at our table prefer combat and prefer things a

685
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,000
little bit more like intense and gritty and stuff like that and like I think

686
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:28,560
it's one of the things we're like and I'm just a player so I can't really speak

687
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,520
to this but like as a DM finding that levity and that balance between like

688
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,520
difficult like it a hundred percent is because yeah especially when you're

689
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:39,200
playing on like a shorter timeline like we just don't there's no guarantee that

690
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:43,320
everybody is gonna be able to continue making our sessions past next semester so

691
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,800
like I feel the pressure to speed things up and to make things happen kind of

692
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:52,320
quickly like my last campaign I very much once I knew what the timeline was I

693
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:56,400
was like here's what's happening in each session generally so that way I can give

694
00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:00,360
these people the ending that they've been wanting for almost two years whereas

695
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:04,080
this one this is the one universe I think I've made or I've come up with

696
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,080
conceptually where I could play this shit for two or three years and still

697
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,760
not have an ending because there's so much in this world to explore there's so

698
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,400
many heroes so many villains so many organizations like there's just no way

699
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,640
that you all would ever be able to get to the end of this thing without playing

700
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,520
this particular campaign for like multiple years like it's just not gonna

701
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:25,520
happen and so part of me is like every session needs to be story heavy and

702
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:29,480
point and point and point and point and point and drive and drive and drive and

703
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:33,280
that's why it feels like it's still a little bit dark despite the fact that I

704
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:37,120
wanted to be happy because there's conflict and conflict is naturally gonna

705
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:41,200
feel heavier than like the lack thereof yeah but it's hard for me to sit down and

706
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,440
be like are we're gonna have a slice of life episode yeah I know I only have four

707
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,360
sessions left with you all and there's no way I'm gonna be able to tie this up

708
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,640
yeah but here's just three or four hours of you all fucking around and doing nothing

709
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,720
I mean that's what we ended up doing during our last campaign is we like set

710
00:49:53,720 --> 00:49:58,800
aside and we got like two like slice of life episodes right before like the big

711
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,360
fight it was like the first time we've been able to have that in that you

712
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:06,000
won't relax before it all ends yeah and it was fun it was nice I wanted this

713
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,040
last session to be slice of life and then I remembered where we left off that

714
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:13,440
you left it with a character in a coma character another character dead

715
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:17,880
and someone just like committed murder yeah I was having a really hard time with

716
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:22,240
that like I left it in a place where I could not do slice of life yeah I had to

717
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:25,880
tie off the ends of that because it was like I don't know if we could just like

718
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:30,280
go to the mall because homeboys in a coma are we like taking him in a coma with

719
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:34,960
us yeah well my mind I was like they wake up that I'm gonna give them

720
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,160
downtime and all of their normal regular days I'm gonna let them be people and

721
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,040
then maybe they all get coffee or something and then I was like actually

722
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,800
one of them is basically in a coma the other one just committed murder as a

723
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,520
child yeah somebody else is grappling with the fact that they watch somebody

724
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,920
get put in a coma and then there's just a hero guy who's just walking around

725
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:55,200
looking for parts they're just like a robot me like oh what can I salvage

726
00:50:55,200 --> 00:51:00,600
what can I scrap a wrench that's shiny another guy's like I'm getting so much

727
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,280
more powerful let's find more ways to do that like everyone's in a very different

728
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:08,400
place yeah and I think that's one of those things that's that's gotta be

729
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,800
tricky as a DM impossible dude because it's already kind of like tricky as a

730
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:17,040
player when you're like I would love some downtime but also we've got shit that

731
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,720
needs to get done yeah I'm like I don't know how I'm even gonna I wanted this

732
00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:24,720
to this campaign to be like two separate arcs where the first semester was in

733
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:28,920
awake at first arc in the second was the second nah no it's gonna take both

734
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,320
semesters to get to the first because I'm like we're over three quarters of the

735
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,640
way through the semester and I'm like there there's still two people in this

736
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:40,520
party that are level three yeah the highest level we have in the party is

737
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:46,360
seven and we haven't even hit a lot of really big story points yet yeah like

738
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:50,280
we're just getting introduced to like a big antagonist it's like a side plot to

739
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:54,960
the whole story yeah there's not a fucking way not a drop I'm like we're

740
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:59,440
lucky if this fucking redstribe bitch gets resolved by the end of semester two

741
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:03,080
and it's one of those things we're like you've got to have conversations between

742
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:07,080
like demon players sometimes would be like okay let's manage expectations because

743
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,000
things have changed hey guys I want I want to let you know that the next three

744
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,280
sessions are gonna be very story-heavy and I'm gonna info dump because I don't

745
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:17,680
want to waste it but also we don't have time yeah set expectations thank you all

746
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,240
for listening to another episode of table talk I gotta fucking go to work so we'll

747
00:52:21,240 --> 00:52:34,200
see you next Thursday bye bye