I'm excited. We are live. Right on, man. How
are you doing, Jay? I'm good. Johnny? I'm real
good. It says Jay on the screen and it threw
me. No, I apologize. How's everything going?
Good. Good. We had a pretty eventful Mother's
Day. We kept ourselves pretty busy, which is
good. This Mother's Day was actually a little
bit rough for me. Not every Mother's Day is as
rough as this one was. Just kind of constant
reminders. Yeah, and because of that like I put
out a little video yesterday just kind of saying
hey to just Reaching out to a mom. They can't
hear me, but it felt good for me Well, that's
why I was that's why I was asking to be fair.
Yeah Like I feel you right I feel you on that
one, you know, I mean, I'm gonna be wrong I have
my mother at the same time my grandmother's on
the way out and I feel and it's one of those
things where we're we're we're not we're not
we're not happy about it, but obviously especially
because the way she's going my grandmother's
currently in the in the latter stages of dementia
slash Alzheimer's that's rough. She's yeah, and
it's I had my I had my first experience at that
my mother insisted I call her so I called her
and It took her a good two minutes before she
finally was like, Johnny? And I was like, yes.
And that helped. I seemed to give her something
to latch on to, but it was like, man. I was like,
God bless. I'm not comparing. You were in the
weeds there for a minute. I told my mother, I
said, don't make me call her again like that.
I really, I just, you know, being there is one
thing, but man. No, I understand. I've had to
talk to a couple people in my life that were,
you know, just not all together, you know, in
this realm of reality anymore. It's a certain
point where you realize that it's a little bit
selfish on your point to try to try to get them
to latch something onto because, you know, they're
swimming in their own thing and, you know, they
may get a little frustrated with themselves,
but, you know, we want that familiarity. We want
that. But we went to my in -laws, which they're...
actual delight. I love them to death. And we
made a really, it's like one of the best damn
chicken casseroles I think I've ever made in
my life. That's awesome. We bought some gluten
-free desserts that were good for Marley. We
bought some non -gluten -free for her father
because for him, he could just taste the difference.
And we're like, all right, fair enough. You know,
that's all right. We'll get you some gluten.
Welcome to it's your loss podcast where raw stories
of resilience and healing are told all while
uncovering and destigmatizing the diverse symptoms
of loss Welcome back to the podcast and if you
missed last month's episode It's your loss. I
am host Michael LeBlanc and I the very special
guest with me today They're all gonna be very
special guests if I have anything to say about
it. We have Johnny Johnson Hello How are you?
I'm good. Real good. You are a self -professor.
Know it all. I am totally. You are a nerd. You
are married. Let's just get all of it out there.
Your social security number is like 614. I have
a dog. I have a dog and cat. Nice. A pet dad.
Yes, absolutely. Very much so. I'm also a real
dad. My daughter's 19 and she's on her way to
college. She's doing college -y stuff right now.
What's she going to college for? She's actually
switched majors. She wanted to be a radiology
person and then she came to us one day in tears
and she's like, I just wanted to do that for
the money, but I really want to be a teacher.
And we're like, then be a teacher. Be a teacher.
Whatever if that's in your heart you love and
we know she loves kids She does vacation Bible
school at church and she does she teaches swim
to kids at the at a for a place called British
swim school That's cool. And so she's loves that
doing that stuff We're like we kind of knew you
were you needed to do something with kids But
if this yeah do it like do it if you want to
be a teacher do it But was there ever a point
like in closed doors, you're just looking at
your wife. You're going radiology Really? We
all the time because here's the thing She's terrible
at math, but she again has, it's more, I think
it was always about her heart for people and
then eventually became her heart for kids. Cause
even then she wanted to be like a pediatrician
or something. And we were like, well then why
don't you just, I mean, I get it, but like, you
want to deal with kids, just be a teacher or
something, you know? I think when I was young,
I wanted to do a medical thing because of the
fact that I do have compassion for people. I
want to see people do better and maybe help them
get better. But then like everything leading
up to it and the darker, grittier side of healthcare,
the politics of it, the older that I got, the
more that I just realized I was like, maybe I'll
become an architect. That didn't work either.
No, I love it. He's like, I don't know why I
do this. I'll do something else. Right on, man.
Johnny, I don't know how much you know about
the show. Maybe you've caught an episode or two
just to kind of get familiar eyes, but this have
this is a show about loss and grief and You know
the way that people deal with it and the one
thing that I've always wanted to do when I started
this show Was to talk to people who not only
lost people because that's gonna happen even
if it's people that you don't talk to anymore,
maybe you're a loner, people that have been in
your life, they're gonna go away. Or you might
go away first, who knows, but loss will happen.
And I was like, but there's so much other kinds
of loss. There's material loss, there's a station
of life. I wanna talk to somebody who's lost
a limb. I haven't had a chance to find somebody
to do that yet, but I know that's gotta do, you
know. some some backflips through the five stages
and here I can imagine especially because you
have ghost limbs and stuff sorry I'm sorry you
suddenly got me massively like wow yeah I can
only imagine like because you're right they have
to deal with the actual physical loss but at
the same time there's that whole idea of phantom
limb where you're like you feel still technically
a connection to that exactly it's not there anymore
it's like ah and so like does that put you through
like a little mid -spiral of the five stages
when you feel it again you know I'm so interested
and one day my missing limb will come and I will
be able to do my interview. But you come along
and you know, I asked you if you want to do it.
You said yes. And we've come across the station
or the identity, the station of life, a part
of your personality that gets lost. And I don't
want to bury the lead too much. So it says right
there on all your socials that you are a recovering
narcissist. Yes. And I didn't know where a show
would come out of that until we sat down for
five and 10 minute, you know, little technical
thing. And I started to see it. And to be honest
with you, I think there's gonna be a lot of similarities
between other conversations I've had with how
it happened when it first came to you, how you
dealt with it and where you are now. I told my
wife about our short little discussion because
she was she was also like hey how'd it go and
I said I'm I'm really I'm excited for this now
because especially as you as I was mentioning
things and you were pointing out oh that's like
this I really had to think wow yeah he's right
and and it's funny I had to deal with so many
other issues at the time that I don't know that
I ever processed that eyes that that's kind of
similar to set that pattern or template of the
five stages and things Part of the reason I did
this show is because I was starting to see little
flashes of the five stages and a lot of things
that I've lost. And I'm a Buddhist, I'm not a
great Buddhist, but I am a Buddhist. And one
of the things that I struggle with is not becoming
too attached to physical things. Before I really
dove into it and started to think about what
Buddhism meant to me, what material things meant
to me, I was getting The the I was getting like
really upset whenever I lost like anything I
was cherishing all my my my possessions and I
would Get to the point where like I would recognize
bargaining as in well. Yeah, I lost this thing
You know, I could just buy it again and I was
like, I'll just get it one more time Yeah, it's
okay. I could just I could just get it and then
say I can't buy it again. Oh, I'm in depression
now Again that so many things that we lose it
sparks that journey. Let's get into it. Let's
start with the first stage. And to do this properly,
I want you to tell me that story you were telling
me before. None of these people have heard it
on when it was kind of just thrown in your face
that you were a narcissist. Go for it. So I got
married at a really young age, way younger than
most people. I was like 19. It was stupid. It
was done in the heat of emotions, as kids are.
And we were married for all of about two years.
And then she cheated on me and got pregnant by
another guy. And I was trying my best to sort
of figure. But there had been like all kinds
of sneaking behind. And it's funny because that's
not actually the stuff that matters. And by that
I mean, when we talked... I was, cause she, cause
she got pregnant and I was like, I was like,
Hey man, it's okay. Not with you, but who she
was. No, it's right. And I was like, Hey, I'm,
I was like, look, I want to work on this. I want
to, you know, I've really felt like I had grown
up in that kind of a family where you're supposed
to work to work out problems and this and that
and whatnot. And I was like, let's, let's figure
this out. And she was very much like somebody
else's baby and the whole thing. And then finally
we were just so, I was trying so bad to use all
of my manipulation tactics to try to keep the
situation because she validated. things in me.
And that's part of being a narcissist is finding
people that validate those elements. And all
of a sudden that wasn't happening. And by the
very nature of cheating on me, that was somehow
insulting to my sensibility as a narcissist.
Like how could that have happened? But rather
than being angry about it, I saw my grip on something
that defined me slipping. And so I was trying
my best to do all the things and it started to
frustrate her and she just suddenly was like,
you understand? And she just ripped into me and
I'm standing in my garage. I'm just standing
and as she's talking I stopped talking and I
listened and I remember sitting there just kind
of stunned and I was I was looking through her
But I remember hearing everything and when it
was all said and done. I remember I was kind
of shell -shocked I was like, okay. Okay. I vaguely
remember her saying I'm sorry as she left and
I stood there It was actually my mom who came
out and said are you okay? I said, I don't think
so and I said can I just can you give me a little
bit? He's gave me some space and so she went
back inside. The issue for me wasn't that my
ex -wife had offended me or upset me. It was
that everything she said rang true. I did not
know how to process that because I didn't have
a name for any of it. And so I was very angry.
I became very angry at women for a good year
and a half. And finally, I wasn't happy being
angry anymore. So a friend of mine suggested,
why don't you go see a therapist? There was this,
they call them faith -based therapists, but it's
not a faith -based therapist. That person's not
a Christian. They're someone who knows how to
deal with Christian people, if that makes sense.
And in fact, she was a very honest therapist
who was like, just so we're all in the clear.
i respect faith i have a faith i am not a person
of faith i just know how to come at you that
way and i remember i even said i sat down and
i said well look first thing out the gate i just
need you to know i think i'm smarter than you
and i want to be open and i want you to know
that so that i can't I don't want to manipulate
my way through this, because one thing about
me, as I'm very intelligent, I had to say, if
I want to actually get anything out of this,
I have to be real and raw, whatever that meant.
And I didn't know what that meant at the time.
And so these were one -on -one sessions. We did
once a week. And it was about four or five weeks
in. And I was having just a particularly emotional
episode during the therapy session. And I forget
what exactly we were talking about, but I was
frustrated. And I was like, well, why do you
think, why does this happen to blah, blah, blah?
And she just kind of sat there for a second.
And she had been writing some notes. She put
it down. And she said, Johnny, you're a narcissist.
I felt like she'd slapped me. It was right at
the end of our session, so it was even worse.
And she's like, we'll talk about it next week.
So I had to sit on that for a week. Same bad
time, same bad channel. Yeah, yeah. My goodness.
It was rough. It was just coming to that conclusion.
Eventually, I came back and I was like, well,
let's say you're right. What does that mean?
Like, what does that actually mean to me? And
then again, I'm intelligent, I did look things
up, but the internet wasn't as much as it is
today. Back then it was, you know, I'm gonna
download my Dragon Ball desktop, I'm gonna leave
for an hour while it's doing that, you know what
I mean? And it might be done by the time you
get back. No, for real, for real. And so, I was
able to look some things up, and obviously I
had the library, and I looked at some different
things and whatnot. So I understood the concept,
and I even told her up front, I said, I'm having
difficulty with this. Mainly because I I thought
I was generous. I'm open. I'm let me tell you
all the good things about me And not to mention
I had grown up in a house as a person of faith
and I'm like, how can I be as a Christian? How
can I be a narcissist? It doesn't make sense.
I'm like, come on really well that right there
I mean that's that's gotta be textbook denial
Like, you're trying to validate your existence
by holding it against everything else that you
know that's around you. Like, how could I be
this? I'm this. There's something to be said
for at least taking the time to, you know, research.
You know, was she right when she told you that?
Which by the way, I want to touch on, you know,
faith -based therapy. It turns out that the person
who I went to therapy with for the first time
that I went to therapy, they were also in that
part of faith -based. And yeah, it wasn't that
they brought their faith into it. She was like,
how do you reconcile being the person that you
are and having these things and having these
people and living the life that you are in the
middle of America? Practice Buddhism. And I'm
like, practice is a strong word there. I appreciated
her bringing that up because she didn't bring
it up in every session. If she thought it was
pertinent. So if anybody ever stumbles across
faith -based therapy, don't shy from it. No,
my therapist was good at that I remember I was
very I was very hard on myself in the early stages
of all this and when I was on the own on ones
because eventually she she switched me over to
her she had a group therapy for Attics and her
thought process was we should approach it that
way mainly because of how I was just certain
behavior patterns I was showing in this whole
thing, she was like, why don't we approach it
that way? Because she actually used the phrase,
do you want to recover from this? And I remember
thinking to myself, what does that mean, recover
from it? And so she optioned for that. But there
was a couple of times during our one -on -ones
when she would say, Well, you're being really
harsh. Doesn't the word say to forgive? Why should
we forgive others out there, but why aren't you
doing any of the forgiving inwardly? And I remember
you said that would be like, shut up. You don't
know nothing. You know what I mean? You just
don't want to hear that stuff. You're like, I
want to be mad. I want to justify my being angry
at all this. I mean, that pretty much touches
the denial right there. So you go into the group
therapy, right? How long did you do that? So
it was all in about four years, which sounds
crazy, but I was getting so much in terms of
learning about myself and And it's so funny because
and I had given her permission to call me out
on things if she saw it because I'm You kind
of have to go backward a little bit to how you
get I got there when I was a kid growing up I
was always the fat kid I hit six feet tall at
fifth grade My class picture is me standing next
to the teacher and people think in the picture
that I was that's like the assistant teacher
or something like the Yeah, for real, for real.
And when you're that fifth grade, you're that
size, and everyone else is significantly smaller,
it immediately puts a light that this is in high
school. When you're at that age, it's awkward.
It's weird. And people treat it that way. And
so I'm being bullied by kids. And so one, I had
to start liking myself a lot. And I had to really
embrace that. And I studied books on psychology.
I studied because I wanted to make people like
me. And part of those things, you have to understand
what you're trying to sell, so to speak. And
that was actually a lot of how the approach happened.
And so little by little, I begin drinking my
own Kool -Aid, if you will, in terms of, yeah,
no, look how great I am. I'm worth being a friend
with. And I jokingly used to say, I was the guy
who was the friend of the girl. And when she
broke up with the guy, or she would come cry
on my shoulder, and then ultimately we'd have
a relationship. And so little by little, life
became a manipulation. And then you start seeing,
oh, well, look, see, I am valid. These people
do like me. And then it became I'm smarter than
everyone. It doesn't help. And I hate this part
because this part always comes across conceited.
I have an IQ of about 180. But it's not what
you think. By that, I mean everyone equates that
to, oh, well, why aren't you Einstein or whatever?
It's not that kind of intelligence. It's I process
information fast. Right. So if I'm exposed to
information, I can process it quickly. It's not
that you know everything. Which everybody tends
to think that it's like you were pre -programmed
with knowledge. That's not an IQ. No, I just
process information really quickly. So getting
people to like me suddenly became... You know,
you'd be better off doing something this way,
but I don't know how to tell you that, so I'm
just gonna help you in that direction. And you
start manipulating people. And that manipulation
suddenly becomes, I'm better than, I'm smarter
than, and then looking down at people and their
ideas are suddenly not the greatest ideas, and
you start having this negative outlook toward
everybody, but everybody should look at me as
being great. It didn't help that because of my
IQ I was able to learn, I learned skills fast.
I was able to, I used to sit in the mirror as
a kid and I know everything my face is doing
all the time. I know what the expressions are,
I know what it feels like, I understand how it
looks, and I know what my best side is, if you
will. So now fast forward to therapy. So I'm
in this group of, as far as I'm concerned, a
whole lot of less -thens. I'm like, I know that
I have an issue, but I'm constantly in this and
I don't have that issue I don't have that issue
and these are by the way This is a mix of people
with narcotics anonymous people alcohol anonymous
people people who have varying addictions It
wasn't almost nobody was like me. Everybody had
a form of addiction. This was an addictions group
Because there was a psychological experiment
that you were brought in No, it was in her mentality.
She wrote a book about it later, not with about
me, but in general about how the idea is the
commonalities of addict mentality. Actually,
she didn't mention me by name because I asked
her not to, but she does mention that narcissism
is potentially an addictive behavior because
of what it does and gives you in the endorphin
rush. There are a lot of similar things that
happen in the brain for narcissists that happen
with people who use drugs or alcohol. Do you
happen to know the name of the book? Oh my gosh,
I used to. It was like that. No, it was like
I think it was like it was like out of the darkness
or something Okay, it was a yeah, I'll look it
up if you if you find it We'll put it right here
because that would be wild for other people to
to read that Yeah, she was really I like man.
She was great. And I think she still like practices
like loose I don't think she does it officially
she used to be like much more involved with it
and whatnot, but now she's kind of retired But
so in that group setting I would look and see
everybody with their various things. And there
would be moments in it where I would start trying
to get people to talk and open up. And I would
be trying to manipulate people. And she would
call me out. She would be like, first, stop doing
that. Second, this is my group. And you need
to understand that. And I would be like, you're
right. And everybody started to understand what
my deal was. And that's really why I was there
so long is because I had to really get out of
my. So I imagine now with a like group setting,
you see that thing, everybody sees it in shows
and movies. It's like, hi, my name is, and I
am. So did you do that as well? Like, and just
let everybody know why you were, wow. Yeah. And
everyone, and it's so funny because I felt stupid
because it is exactly how it looks. You say,
Hey, uh, my name is Johnny. Uh, I am a narcissist.
And I would have said just like that. And she
said, don't minimize. And I was like, fine. I'm
a narcissist. Cause I was all like, I was like,
Right. And it's so funny because everyone then
in concert, hi, John. And I was like, I remember
thinking to myself, the stories are true. Yeah.
I was thinking to myself, this is so stupid.
So I mean, that's forward. That's got to bring
you like moments of frustration, especially,
you know, during those times when you were first
brought into it, you know, and, you know, she's
calling you out on your shit and everything.
How much anger were you holding on or letting
go of? during that time? There were a couple
of, um, she, she had to ask me to step out a
couple of times. Really? Yeah. It was mainly
because one of the tactics I would use to manipulate
people was in genuine relatability. So let's
say you're telling me something about what you're
going through. I would either make up a scenario
that was really close to what you're dealing
with to empathize, or I would actually have find
something that maybe wasn't exactly and try to
give it a weird tangential connection. And she
would call me out and be like, so if you want
to empathize, then just plain empathize. Just
be able to say, look, I'm sorry, I can't imagine
what you're going through, but it sounds like
it sucks. And that was so weird to me because
nobody liked me for my thoughts and opinions.
And when I was younger, why would they care now?
I have to be this person that people think I
am. I can't just be whoever, because I didn't
know who me was. It was odd, and so little by
little, I started feeling who I was slipping
away, and that became really scary. I remember
there were times I would be like, I have to,
I have to go. And then she would correct me,
and I'd go out there, and she would come out,
and she was like, I'm sorry, did I do something?
And I was like, no, no, no, you understand. And
she was the one that had to tell me, it was,
he was slipping. Whoever he was, the other me
was going away. And I was like, where is he going?
I'm not safe without that. You know, and that
was a, yeah, it was. I haven't touched that in
a minute. I can relate in the way of letting
go of the person who I was in my first relationship,
my first marriage, and learning how to be a genuine
person. Because I'm not going to lie, looking
back at younger me, I was pulling the same moves
you were. I wanted to always be on the top of
an argument. I felt that my opinions were going
to be more helpful. And then looking back on
the way that we were living life, I'll be honest
with you, I had no room to talk. We were only
basically just floating along. And then the moment
that I wanted to do something different, she
was like, this isn't the person that I want to
be with. And she went her own way. Our relationship,
Broke horribly at that point and I've talked
about this before back in season one where I
was talking about There was a lot of bargaining
in my part of the relationship and I was like,
oh we could definitely make this work I mean,
it sounds like you think yeah Fine we can make
this we want to be poly. Well, whatever let's
do that, but After I got into the relationship
that I am now and I realized what it's like to
be with somebody who pushes back equally, if
not more than I do, with how she sees things,
but not because she wants to be right, but because
she wants the friction. That did so much for
me to kind of scrub away that kind of person
that I thought relationships needed. And so,
and dude, I went through an emotional wild. fire.
It was, there was sadness, anger. I went through,
I think I probably went through this list at
least like six or seven times while I was trying
to figure myself out. I can't imagine doing that
in a room while everybody's trying to construct
and deconstruct themselves. You know what I'm
saying? That is wild. Once I got kind of past
that rough early stage, I would say about the
midway through year two. I began to really use
the group for what it's meant to be used for,
which is getting that point of real relatability,
where I would see somebody, they'd be talking
about a substance, but they would describe what
it felt like for them, oh, that stuff felt really
great, and it's this huge high, and endorphins,
and I remember thinking to myself, you know,
when I would manipulate people, and they would
go the way I wanted it to go, it was amazing.
I was just like, yeah, see, aren't you happier
now? Because you listened, of course. And by
that point, my therapist had to actually pull
things out of me. Because she realized I had
kind of turned a corner, and at that point, I
was trying to just absorb. But she would see
in my face that something, she would say, John,
it looks like something hit you just then. And
I'd be like, well, yeah, everybody is funny.
They started then support being like, no, no,
it's okay. You're not you're not being that way.
You're because I started being real timid. Like,
do I am I am I being that way? Am I being real
right now? You know, and then and about your
three, I discovered existing. Yeah. You know,
it's like, it's so you know, you like my insights,
because they're just okay, whatever. And but
I remember about your three, I had a different
Turn and it was I realized I got a lot more by
giving other people value and I stopped trying
to Convince people who I was and of my value
and started kind of just saying hey, you know
what? You're awesome. Like you're great, you
know, so what you don't do anything that I do
who cares I don't do anything you do let's get
into what you're about You know, I mean, how
do you approach stuff? And why do you do the
things you do and how are you put together and
that suddenly became? whole different world and
people's people started to show me they appreciated
me for me and Me for who I was and that was such
an it was yes But then it became it was such
a weird like imposter syndrome set in hard and
it just like because I was always feeling like
I don't know if I deserve, you know, I don't
know if I deserve all that, but all right. And
I stopped, like we almost had to go the opposite
direction where she had to say, no, it's okay
for you to be loved, be appreciated, have people
treat you, you know, positively. And this is
the good side of what you, how things used to
be, you know? And if people wait till people
ask you for your advice and don't you give them,
give it to them genuinely. I remember for the
longest time I would self -regulate. I would,
cause they were, cause when you're a narcissist,
lying is very second nature. Like it's just,
it's a, and I would literally start for the early,
the early days and once in a while I'll still
do it. I'll say something and just first thing
out of my mouth, I'll blurt it and go, I'm sorry.
I just lied to you. That's not true. What I just
said is not true. And now it comes off to people
now like, Oh, you just miss from you forgot it
or misthought. But the truth is in my head, that
was an old behavior. Spit something out of my
mouth just because of years of my childhood like
structured. It's in there and once it does it
slips out That would be like, oh, yeah, totally,
you know, like I have this and this and I'd be
like, no, that's not all the truth Why I said
that kind of like that thing what we do we try
to fit in with our friend groups Especially if
we're new in the friend groups and they say something
along the lines is like you've seen such -and
-such show or oh my god I love this band and
you're like Yeah, I love that band too. You're
spending the next two days going, what songs
do they sing? You know, just to try to - Who
are this group? Exactly, why do I know them?
Oh man, I messed up the biggest chance to really
kind of just have like a little fling relationship
while I was in, I was 12th grade. getting ready
for the Navy. I was probably in the best like
shape of my life at that point as far as like
muscle mass and slimness. And so this stroke
up this conversation with this really cool chick
and she was like, Hey, do you know drops of Jupiter,
which is a song by train? And I went, and I went,
Yeah, man, I love all their songs. And she was
like, cause you thought that was the name of
the band? Yep. And I was like, Oh man, any, anything
to get this, this chick to go like have a Wetzel's
pretzel with me at the mall. You know, I was
like, I was ready to say yes to anything. We,
we, the conversation flatlined after that. Yeah.
That was, that was risk taken. And I was, I did
not calculate that well. So let me, let me talk
or ask about the Johnny that wasn't in the group.
at that point, because when you're in therapy,
it's really easy to focus on the things that
you should do because you have people there guiding
you. You're surrounded by, especially if you're
doing group, you're surrounded by people who
are supposed to be putting in the work as well.
What about... the Johnny who wasn't in therapy.
How was he dealing with life? So I immediately
threw myself back more into my faith. I was going
to church with my parents and I had gotten really
involved in my job and I was really kind of,
not that I wasn't involved in my job, but I mean
like I really, really like I was working late
because it was just me at that point. I was not
in a relationship of any kind. Which is probably
a good thing at that point for the deconstruction,
reconstruction phase that you were in. Yes, no,
for sure. And I actually, it's so funny that
you mentioned, because again, my whole life,
it's a spiral, man. I don't know how far you
wanna go down this road. It's a spiral, brother.
I met a girl through a friend. I had some friends
I'd known back in the day who suddenly crossed
my paths again. And they used to tell me, they're
like, oh yeah, we thought you were full of crap
back in the day, whatever else. And I was like,
oh, it's fine. And so I started hanging out with
them. And so I met this girl through them, her
name was Erica, and so she ended up being my
second wife. And we had started talking, and
I remember being very upfront with her about
who I was. I was like, look, I don't even know,
she was going to college, I said, I don't even
know if I'm supposed to, because I'm handling
this like an addict, I'm not supposed to be getting
into relationships and stuff yet. But I was very
upfront because I wanted her to know. I was trying,
because that was like a huge thing at the time
was like honesty and all this. And so she was
like, all right, well, I go back to school and
just we'll whatever. When I come home, I'll touch
base with you, see how you're doing. I was like,
all right, cool. And so we did. So about a year,
two years or so. It wasn't until after I got
out of therapy, I was doing one or two follow
up one -on -ones by myself just to kind of make
sure everything was okay. My training wheels
were off completely and I was good more or less.
And I was always welcome back. And a couple of
times I took her up on it and I would come back
to do one -on -ones just to kind of double -check
and stuff. And she said, you know, if you feel
like you're good to be in a relationship, that's
entirely up to you. This is new territory. The
reason I had you in that group was because there
are many of the same behaviors, but you don't
necessarily have all those same kind of trigger
points. It's just a matter of being open and
honest. And so I was like, all right. I almost
went the opposite direction in that I really
was trying to be Very like I was like, what do
you where do you want to go eat? You want to
go eat somewhere wherever you want to go eat?
We can go eat like I had no more opinions My
opinions were gone. So that's how I began I just
like overcompensated for how I used to be and
I still had to kind of learn I still didn't know
who I was really I really right I was trying
to learn who I was and probably being in relationship
wasn't the best thing because I got real the
the level of NRE at that stage was so high in
Terms of just that new relationship energy. Yeah
It's just boom it would just blow up So a friend
of mine invited me to his wedding. He was getting
married and his he was having a BDSM wedding
And by that I just mean it was it was at a club.
He was a serge and he was marrying his his bottom
They were doing a promise. They were doing a
promise thing first, which was the coloring and
then a year from then they would get married
So it was like it was like essentially a glorified
engagement. That's such a cool scene I've had
a couple I've I've got a couple of friends that
have that that were in that for like God, 15,
20 years, and they were like, eh, you know, we're
gonna go settle down in a double white. While
they were there, the stories, the outfits. Sure,
sure. The parties. Oh yeah, no, no, so much.
So we, I, in an effort to be sort of my, whoever
I was, I threw my, I, cause you gotta remember,
in all that time that I was being not me, I was
manipulating people and being, I was always chameleoning
and being who someone else. Yeah. I thought that
person thought I would be. So this was very much
an exploratory time for me in terms of trying
to figure out what my likes, dislikes, and all
that nonsense was. We were married for all of
two years. We went to this thing and our world
exploded. We began throwing parties at our house
and the whole nine yards and it was just learning.
And there was this like overabundance of honesty
that was both appreciated and later on it was
like, was it the right? I was learning who I
was in a crazy insane way. And then eventually,
we drifted apart. And one day we were sitting
there and she says, we've kind of just become
roommates. And I said, yeah, we kind of have.
And she was like, well, then I'm just going to
move out. And I was like, OK. And she did. And
it was over. And it was, yeah, super crazy. Then
that's when the unthinkable happened and was
somebody who had been attracted to that particular
fire version of me. Came in my life and stayed
so I had three partners at the time and two of
them left one of them stayed and the One who
stayed became my third wife, which if I'm if
I'm doing the abacus right now, that's your current
wife No, okay. All right. I got my current wife
Is the fourth wife my current wife is the fourth
wife and she's my final final done This is my
forever wife my bad for jumping ahead. No, you're
good. You're good, but This is the one that I
briefly touched on last week, or when we talked
briefly in the fight. She was a narcissist of
a different kind than I had. And she had a son
who became my son, and I actually treat him like
my son. I loved him. I still love him. Patrick
and I still, Father's Day, he texts me. May the
4th is his birthday. I call him, send him stuff.
That's wonderful. We're very much involved in
one another's life. We love Star Wars. I know
he's going to a full sale and I told him I said
when you graduate let me know I'm gonna be there
and he lived with my he lived with my family
here so my daughter is his sister as far as I'm
concerned I was a son, I was a kid of a step
parent. So my father took me, so that's the only
picture I knew in terms of how to be a parent,
which is to be all in no matter what. Regardless
of this is my kid, so he's my son. And I literally,
he calls me dad, I call him son. I'm 100 % behind
building a family. Yeah. Because the family that
you're born into sometimes isn't necessarily
gonna be the best fit for you. So building a
family is like top tier. Yeah. What I want to
do when it comes to family creation for sure
and so we We got I remember we would have such
arguments and fights me and my this wife at the
time and she loved to argue So I had to really,
I had to dig deep into some old tools to be able
to just fend off. And there were moments and
times that we'd have arguments and I call it
her little girl, the little girl inside of her,
the one who had one day been hurt, but would
come out every now and again and be real vulnerable
and real wonderful and real and say wonderful
things. And then this mean narcissist side of
her would wrap up again and it would just be,
and it was terrible. It was her world and I lived
in it. And remember, so this is me still, I went
so far the opposite direction that I didn't know
who I was. And I'll never forget, we were having
an argument or art fight one day, and she was
like, you need to do this, you need to man up,
all these things. I was so upset, because I had
been that guy. I had been strong, self understanding
who I was. And all this stuff, and I was real
just, It was just rough, man. It didn't get,
it sounded like you got you to questioning. Yeah.
Were you in the right spot? Right. And so I remember
I was real upset and my best friend had said
to me, he goes, hey, what was the last time you
talked to God? And I said, and I remember I was
real mad. I was like, God doesn't want to talk
to me right now, bro. I'm just not feeling it.
And he smacked me because he knows, he knows
how I grew up and he's like, dude, God's always
waiting. He's just waiting. And I was like, he's
like, talk to him. So I decided I was gonna have
a conversation with God my parents who I was
staying with at the time because I had chosen
to leave this situation because I identified
it as being a Destructive and a very toxic relationship.
Yeah. Yeah And she even rent machine was like,
why don't you fight with me anymore? I said,
I don't want to fight. I want to do that I can't
I don't want to do that anymore. I don't care
if you're right. I don't care if I'm right anymore
I'm just done and so I was living with my parents
who I had left. I remember I wrote My son had
a letter saying, no matter what, I need you to
know that I love you. I think you're the world.
I said, I will never ever not be your dad. I
said, well, I have not left because of you. Trust
me. 100 % know that. Nice. And he called me and
we even had lunch later on that week and stayed
very much in touch, even regardless. And the
little girl inside her let... let her make sure
that that was important. She was like, look,
you're the only one that's ever shown my son,
like love, compassion. Like she knew she was
able to identify, but the narcissist was able
to sit here and say, you're showing him things
I can't show him. And I was, yeah, it was crazy.
It is, it really is. And, and so that's why he's
still in my life. But yeah, I went home, I got,
if I was gonna talk to God after not talking
to him for a couple years, I grabbed a six pack
of apple cider and I drank four in a row and
then I started talking and it was literally like,
so, I guess we're supposed to be talking. And
I was so mad and I just, and everything. From
the first marriage to that one, it was like,
and I was so angry and this and that, and I couldn't
write a scene more dramatic, because it was raining
outside. My parents had gone out of town, so
I had the house to myself. And I'm outside. There's
thunder happening. My parents live in a wooded
around house, so there's woods everywhere. And
I'm sitting there on my knees in the front yard,
just shouting at the sky. You're right. That's
cinematic as hell. It was. It really was. It
really was. And I remember the thunder had stopped,
and it just started raining. But it was almost
like Hollywood had turned on the rain. And I'm
just sitting there, and it was one of those moments
where I've never heard God's audible voice. I'm
not one of those people who says that kind of
thing. But I remember feeling in my... I felt
it in my heart, like God was like, are you done?
Are you good? Can we now? Now can we start talking?
And that began the beginning of my own spiritual
kind of healing, which in turn kind of helped.
It took all that journey to finally start to
go, yeah. And then I remember I woke up the next
morning feeling very refreshed, but very tired.
And I went to church that Wednesday, I went to
church that Sunday, and little by little began
to rebuild the pieces. And I committed to myself
and my parents, but mostly myself. I had not
been alone. Since I was 16. I had been in some
version of a relationship and I realized I needed
to be alone What good is a narcissist that they
don't have people around? Yeah, you hit it right
on the nose Yeah, and I realized I needed to
focus on on God and work work because I had let
the drama of the past just bowled me over. And
that was part of that, who that weak person was
that she called out and whatnot. And I realized
I needed to read. And I finally, finally, years
later began to figure out who I was. And I'll
never forget my first time I got my own apartment
and I went to the supermarket and I bought $300
worth of groceries because I was still buying
for everybody, for three people. And I remember
I went home and I said, I don't want to eat any
of this shit. And I drove to my best friend's
house, he was two miles away, and I pulled up
and I said, hey, you got groceries. And he was
like, and his wife was all excited, like, oh,
that's such a great blessing, thank you so much.
And he's like, hey, they went inside, he goes,
what is up? And I said, I need to go back to
the store, and I need to figure out what I. And
so I went to the store, I spent two hours in
a Publix. And I was like, because I literally
was like, do I want, what kind of. What kind
of peanut butter do I want? And I eventually
landed on, well, you know what? I do like the
honey roasted. I'm going to get the honey roasted
because that's what I want. Finding yourself
in a public space. Bro. That's poetic. I bought
two bags. I bought two bags. That's it. Two bags.
I spent maybe a hundred bucks if that. And, but
everything was something I knew I wanted. And
that was sort of the beginning for me. It's so
funny. That was my first time I started watching
YouTube. I started seeing the movie trivia Schmodown,
which was a trivia thing that these guys had
put together themselves. And I was like, I like
movies. I like this. And the Collider had a movie
talk show and I would watch that. And then I
liked John Campia and I discovered, I started
seeing, I don't know, YouTube, suddenly I was
like, people I can do I can do this and I remember
that I watched they were just gonna introduce
the newest doctor which at the time was Jody
Whitaker okay and I was and I recorded a little
short video on a channel that doesn't exist anymore
and I was like Uh, you know, I was like, yeah,
I'm so excited. Oh my God. I watched the thing
and recorded the screen while I was watching
it the whole bit. And I was like, eh, it's awesome.
I'm so excited. It's the first chick. It's great.
It's going to be the best and whatever. I was
very excited about it. And I'll never forget
like a month or two later, BBC reached out to
me and they used a clip of me being excited in
their rollout video. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah.
It was, I was so excited about that. And that
was sort of the first foray into me kind of realizing
that there was a world I could potentially tap
into that could deep down inside. I think I still
seek validation. We all do, but anybody who sits
in front of a camera this long normally does,
but it's the money. Cause I told my wife and
stuff. So I remember I was trying to think who
I wanted to be. And cause I felt like, you know,
Johnny, yay. Who's that? But also fast forward
to all this. I have a lot of NDAs. that I've
signed over the years because I was a broadcast
and different television things. Some that are
about to expire and some actually have already
recently expired. Will the expired ones become
content? I hope. That'd be cool. I haven't tried
it. I haven't really, but we'll take a look and
see because it'd be fun. But at the end of the
day, I wanted to make sure that I... I wanted
to really kind of figure out who I was. And I
remember sitting here going, my mother and everybody
used to say, you always think you're a know -it
-all. But I realized now, and at first I was
like, that's just stupid. I'm not going to do
that. I'm not going to do that. That's dumb.
But then I started thinking about it. I was like,
but I do like to help other people know stuff.
I do like to help kind of explain that I'm an
explainer. I'm a talker. And what's funny is
the internet's one of those rare places where
people actually want your opinion. Like that's
why they tune in. Even if they just want an opinion
to rage at, even if it's something that is in
their sphere of influence and they just want
to make this guy an idiot. Watch all of his videos
in hate form. No, for real. No, for real. Well,
if you ever see like a nerd, Roddick, who's currently
like the king of hate videos. He hates on everything,
but he literally is like... If you liked your
video, thank you. If you didn't like it, thank
you for watching. And it's like, you have to
realize, yeah, there's the both kinds, but yeah.
And I, over time, I remember the first time I
was on sidebar that I think I'll never forget.
I had a brief relapse of feeling, cause I had,
I had, I'd never been on this side. of a narcissist
-abusive relationship. I had always been the
abuser, never the abusee. And now all of a sudden,
I had left, or run away, or escaped a narcissist
relationship, and I didn't know where to turn.
I didn't. I went once to see my therapist, and
she kind of was like, she basically said, you've
been a victim of narcissism at this point. And
so I went online, and I found, at the time I
was on Facebook, I went to, I've long since left
Facebook, because I hate that place. But at the
time, I went there, and I found a narcissist
survivor's page. It was mostly women and they
were all shocked and as they would say stuff
About they were going through I would be like,
oh, that's what she used to say to me blah blah
blah blah And then a couple times they would
say something I would be like, you know, I remember
when I used to do that and They were like, what
are you talking about? And I was like, oh, I
don't I guess I never told you guys I'm a recovering
narcissist. They were like, are you and they
were like, what do you and I remember the conversation
stopped And everybody was like, what do you,
we need you to explain this. Not, it wasn't confrontational.
It was, what do you mean? And I said, well, and
I gave rough, small version. It was probably
one of the most amazing things because they were
so unbelievable about like, I can't believe you
made it out. that you decided not to be that
way anymore. And then the other half of it was
we're happy that you were survived this person
because clearly you have a unique viewpoint on
that whole situation. But the fact that you decided
that you didn't want to be that way. And I had
to tell him I couldn't. I realized when my ex
-wife told me about myself, she did more than
just tell me about myself. She let me see that
I had left wreckage behind. That people were
hurt there was it was it had hurt people I had
manipulated you taking away from someone's ability
to freely make a choice even if even if you think
it's a dumb choice it's still their choice and
that's that's like the Crux of us being people,
you know being able to tell somebody hey look,
you know what? I don't necessarily agree with
your decision, but it's your decision to make
that's huge and I had taken that away from people
and then just like it had begun to be taken from
me so it was and it's one again that's why i
had to tell you the whole story is because this
weird yo -yo And then finally, I started doing
videos for my church there and there was, I had
posted a couple of LinkedIn and then someone
had randomly seen one. A friend had, it's funny,
it was like six degrees of separation. Someone
had reshared it or whatever else and someone
saw it. Next thing I know, I got a direct message
from a place up here in Georgia that's saying,
hey, we're looking to hire a video editor. We
do faith -based TV, which the truth is it's infomercials.
Faith -based TV is infomercials. A word network.
You pay to be honest. I've directed and produced
a few of them myself, yeah. Yeah, it's but you
do it and you dress it up as a show So you have
to actually plan a television show and that sort
of was the beginning of my world getting into
broadcast and and eventually I got I moved up
here and I remember I was working really hard
and it was freeing because nobody knew me I had
no history and I was able to just be me for the
first time and It's so funny The first place
I stopped when I got here, I found a Publix and
I was like, oh my God, you have Publix here too.
I walked in and I was emotional. I was like,
I just moved here from Florida and you don't
understand. This is the only thing that looks
familiar. I love this place. And they were like,
well, welcome to Georgia. It was wonderful. Yeah,
so I started doing really good things. And I
had this really huge success. I was the first
person to help in a meeting. I sold like a $30
,000 pilot of someone to come record a talk show
pilot in her studio. They'd never rented the
studio out for that much before it was great.
And I got home and I was like, yeah. Hello? And
it was empty. And I was like, so I called up
my best friend and I said, hey, you think I'm
ready to date? Because I realized that having
success by yourself is empty. And he goes, well,
if you're really serious, then yeah, probably.
If you're asking the question, then you're probably
ready to explore that. And I said, all right.
So I decided rather than jumping in like I had
before, like I was doing, I was pushing 32, 30
film. God, no, I was pushing 35. And I was like,
there's no way. All of this before your 40s,
by the way. I want to point that out. There's
a lot of people who think that like, long -term
life changes like that, you know, you're, you
wind up like kind of like broken and like trying
to crawl out of your things, like in your forties,
but. Yeah, dude. And I was exploring lifestyle
stuff. I remember saying ever all the time, my
selling point was I'm living more life than most
people ever do. And it's kind of true because
things happen so fast. But so I, because I was,
I was different. I was like, you know what? I'm
not, I'm not a go out to the bar data kind of
person. So I went online and I researched what
is the best dating site or whatever. And I found,
and this is just my own research, this is not
me. I'm not selling anything. I found OKCupid
had the best reputation among the actual psychologists
and people who knew something, specifically because
its algorithm is one of the best. And everybody
agreed on one thing. Before you ever hit see
my matches, answer. Answer 1 ,000 questions because
they have questions. So I downloaded the app
I downloaded the app and I was like okie -doke
and I just started answering questions. I'd be
sitting on the toilet answering questions I wait
on meetings answering questions doctors office
answering questions and I got to thousands and
I went you know what just in case answer 300
more and So I want to be sure man. I was like,
you know what? I don't want to be any doubt and
I and I and I remember I the very first I had
already put a profile picture and I put a very
modest modest profile up. I was very honest about
what I was looking for in terms of hey look I've
been through some tough I want somebody I can
share all life with whatever that looks like
and I went to show me my matches and the first
person I went to had no profile picture and I
was like why did you show up? I guess they'd
answered enough questions that they the second
person was the person who eventually became my
wife and I reached out I reached out and I was
like, hey, just, you know, I literally, my opening
line was, so apparently we're 98 % compatible
according to this thing. And yeah. My, uh, my
wife, uh, she was the maybe the eighth person
that I talked to on plenty of fish and not, not
like talk, talk to, but you know, like actually
started a conversation in the chair. And mine
was a commentary on her middle name because it
is, it is Adele. And I was like, so are you an
Adele fan or? I hate you so much. I hate you
so much. I'm surprised she didn't shut you down.
She was like, this is the most original conversation
that has started on this app. Oh my God. That's
awesome. Turns out there's a bunch of assholes
on, on dating apps. So that's so funny. Right
on. So, I didn't really have to guide you really
all throughout the steps. You did a really good
job. You almost slid into acceptance too quick
without talking about some of the pain and whatnot.
I have to say, the relationships that you were
in, especially with the two -year and then the
narcissist. uh, that, you know, wrecked your
world for a while. You know, that's a form of
bargaining on itself because you're like, well,
this is a, this is a relationship I know I can
handle. You know, this is what I can do. Yeah.
Which there are two things that came to me while
we were talking and I like to say things like
this for the end because it helps to kind of
cap off everything. The first thing is that I
kind of see you right now as an emotional, uh,
version of Zoidberg. So I kind of see you as
an emotional Zoidberg of a certain way. Like
you come into this thing, you talk about the
carapace that you had that was narcissism, and
then you broke down and you're the jelly version,
which everything kind of wiggles and you're just
trying to find your place in life. And then you
find something that's kind of comfortable and
you realize it's not fitting you right. And then
eventually after having one of the most one of
the most dramatic conversations with God winds
up finding yourself a new Zoey Berg body. And
it sounds like it's fitting you comfortably.
I'm glad to get to know the Johnny that you are
right now. Thank you. I appreciate that. You're
welcome. And again, putting it out there. like
that. The first thing that's normally on your
socials is recovering narcissists. You know,
it's the same thing. I put the same thing on
all my socials, which is just, hello, everybody.
Michael LeBlanc here sitting with you. Welcome
to my heart. Your thing. That's nice. It's saccharine.
It's a little sweet, but you're like, no, this
is who I am. And if you want to hear opinions
about everything nerd, you're in the right place.
So, and the second thing that I wanted to dig
into is that it's interesting that as a recovering
narcissist, your recovery was still very much
dependent on the people who are around you, but
you started to see them as sources of energy
instead of something that you could give your
energy to. Yeah. And that's huge. Well, I just
kind of saw it more like I wasn't leeching. Be
more communal less sure less like a vampire.
You know, I mean like I was like like make me
feel valid instead of Sweet serotonin. Yeah instead
is much more like oh my god, you're so interesting
and and you discover so many new I said I felt
such a jerk when I said People are awesome. Like
yeah, like there's stories and depth when you
know, cause you obviously do this, but like there
you get to realize that people are great. They're
messy and they're, and they're ridiculous and
they're funny and they're deep. And you're like,
Oh my God, I love it. I love it. I love it. It's
the same reason why I like photography is because
it stops and forces you to take a look at things
at either a an angle that you've never seen before.
Or try to find something and find an angle that
nobody else has seen before and kind of lift
that up. And both dealing with people and that,
there's a lot of similarities. So it sounds like
to me that you made it to the acceptance. I mean,
you were circling around acceptance anyway, but
I feel like you've really got hold on it. So
what does the future look like for you? My family,
I absolutely have leaned on my faith because
that was such a big part of kind of that turning
point for me of sort of really reaching a new
place. But at the same time, I've really tried
to hyper focus on, let's communicate, let's talk,
let's see what's up. There are no bad ideas and
there are no bad thoughts. When I first, my daughter
is actually my stepdaughter. She first came into
my life, she was 12 and angry because her parents
had gotten divorced two years prior. I was the
new guy and I was whatever. Oh, she came home
one day from visiting her dad and She said and
she was crying she was upset and I was like what's
going on and her dad was having a hard time with
the relationship He was in and she's like, I
just I want I feel like nobody loves my I feel
like nobody loves him. I Stopped it. I was like,
oh it hit me so hard and I said stay right here
I went upstairs to my wife and I said so you're
gonna think I'm crazy and she was what I Said
we need to let his name is Torrance said we let
Torrance move in And she goes, what? And I said,
we didn't let Torrance move in. We have a guest
room. He could stay there. We didn't let him
move in. And she goes, why? I said, because I
refuse to have my daughter think that nobody
loves her dad. I said, that's not, I'm not going
to be that person. And I said, and as far as
I'm concerned, he's not a threat of any kind.
And I just feel like he needs to move in. And
so she was like, are you serious right now? I
said, yeah. And so we moved him in and it was
about kind of letting them understand people
are people and forgiveness is a thing. And we
helped him get back on his feet. And eventually
he moved out. But at the time we was very much
a lesson in, hey, I remember there were the two
of them. And I said, I need you both to understand,
you two are always worried about you two. I'm
going to be on her team from now on. And so I
always made sure that, you know, I wanted to
make sure it reinforced. I told my, I taught
my daughter how bad men can be. I was like, let
me tell you some stuff that these boys might
be thinking, you know, and I would, I would really,
I was always very, very much there for her. And,
um, and even now that it's funny, her, her biological
dad's taken a weird turn and he's, he sort of
disappeared himself and gone into his home. It's
very bad. But I've always made sure she knew
that one, she was loved, and two, that we could
always talk. And that's what I wanted to really
reinforce. That being said, it's about communicating
and letting people know that, you know, I'm a
very collaborative person. So for me, the future
is about kind of making sure that I help my family
be healthy moving forward. Healthy in terms of,
let's talk, let's talk things out, you know,
whatever. There's not enough talking in the world
in terms of, you know, and if you're angry, fine,
but don't live there. Don't live there. We got
to talk it out. Whatever it is communicating
the anger as as weird as it feels because we
all get told that you know Keep your keep your
loud shit to yourself. If you're going to be
loud do it anonymously on the internet. No, I
mean like We were there was a whole time and
there's still a time. Yeah, right totally And
there's gonna be a time there's there's always
gonna be a time where Being loud is not necessarily
the option, but it's going to be an option. And
if sometimes, if that's what you got to do, be
loud. Be loud. Be real. For Christ sakes, be
real. Yeah. That's exactly what it boils down
to. And I've always told my kid what a narcissist
is like. I've explained to her those signs and
things to watch out for. Here's how you know
you're being manipulated. No, so I've kind of
taken all the things that I used to do and turn
them into life lessons and object lessons of
oh People do this kind of stuff. They all know
my family knows I'm nothing. This is secret.
It's just an effort of making sure I guess for
me the future is Helping other people understand
know what that is like, you know, you're kind
of kind of like kind of like an arts Arnold Schwarzenegger
type character Learned all of his stuff in the
trenches and is now applying it to save his daughter's
life commando Am I getting that right? I think
that's commando. I think that's commando. That's
great. Also, you almost made me tear up a little
bit with the story about taking in her dad like
that. Dude, that's vulnerable and sweet and real
and emotionally intelligent. I don't want to
just keep pouring accolades on you, but that's
so no and I it's funny I'm so happy that I feel
uncomfortable with that because I don't I always
tell people look I do appreciate all that Thank
you, and I accept I accept and receive it's hard
to accept compliments You know well especially
especially because I told it's like it's like
an alcoholic going by a bar You know what I mean?
And there's times that I will tell my wife I
was like hey if I ever seems like I'm getting
too big for my britches You tell me you know
and it's okay, and I married a person who does
that she's she's my biggest critic And I constantly
I don't I don't constantly put things out there
just to wow her I constantly put myself out there
to see you know to see what's what's gonna stick
Well, you know sometimes people who are acts
look at the like coins the chips whatever they
have the different groups that That was one of
those moments when I I was like Okay, maybe I'm
not so bad a person anymore You know, and I don't
mean I just and it was like, you know what cuz
I meant it I genuinely was like I'm doing this
for her I didn't I wasn't doing I didn't care
who saw I wasn't trying to be like no look what
we did Yeah, no, it doesn't sound like it It
sounds, from the outside, from the story that
you told, sounds entirely selfless, which I'm
happy for you and your family, man. I appreciate
that. I always have to, I'm going to tell myself
a little bit in terms of my, it's always there.
Way in the way, way in the way in the back. And
by that, I mean, there are moments that I think
about what you just said and I sit here and I
go, you know, maybe I'm still in a tiny way.
Feeding that old me like just little little things
where I'm like, hey, you know what making people
feel good? Does make me look good. It's way in
the back and I tell my wife that I'm like I like
I always have to check myself with her I'm like
is that and that is you think I'm she's like
no, you're fine. I was like alright But um, you
know, but it's cuz it's you're never I Feel like
you you never are sure and that's part of being
on guard Big making sure I'm not making sure
that I understand if I'm bullshitting or not
Well, that's why it's huge to be with somebody
who can see you from the outside and not be afraid
to tell you what they're seeing. So I'm glad
that you have that. I appreciate you brother.
Not a problem. Well, this has been awesome. Thank
you so much for this. Not a problem. I need you
to know this is probably the only living record
of all of those events. Well, so I'm going to
save this show. You have no idea I'm going to
save this so much. Like legit. I saw you touch
some potentially raw things that you haven't
touched in a while. That's why I'm excited about
this particular season because I want to focus
on the story and not a gimmick because the story
itself is possibly the best, I think, gimmick
that I could get out of this because it's real
for them. The last guy that I had, I mean, he
still shook up. He's not in his acceptance phase
yet. So the fact that he wanted to talk, I normally
don't talk to people who haven't been in their
loss cycle for less than a year. Lost can last
longer than that, but he wasn't even in an acceptance
yet, but he felt lighter, he said afterwards.
You could very well have been like that stepping
stone process, which is cool. That's cool. I've
been calling myself here recently a grief eater.
Okay. Yeah, because there are people out there
who they've called them sin eaters or whatever,
people who take in the information. I don't know
why, it just feels right. Thank you so much for
being on the show and doing this. And it's funny
because that makes a lot of sense as a Buddhist.
Not that I know everything about Buddhists, but
I mean like that whole idea of letting things
go, but at the same time kind of like taking
everything in as it is. You know what I mean?
Whatever that is. And that's awesome. I'm really,
you know, I'm excited for you and the journey
you're on with this. This is great. Thank you.
I did only check out the last one and I kind
of perfunctorily scanned some others, but I think
I will keep up for sure because I'm... I enjoyed
this a lot and I would love to see kind of where
you keep going with this. Please keep doing it,
brother. Keep doing it. Thank you. Thank you.
I'll tell you this. If you know anybody who is
having a hard time with anything that they've
lost or a rough time in their life that they
want to, because again, I'm a firm believer that
any rough times in your life brings about these,
you know, changes no matter how minute or how
quick they happen. So send them my way. But Johnny,
where can they find you? I'm on all the socials
as at a real know -it -all because because most
every platform has Mr. Know -it -all in some
form taken by someone who doesn't they do it
was hard to find I started stayed away from film
for a while because I was kind of feeling a little
burned after the pandemic but I've started and
I haven't a handle on on the ex it's Jay Johnson
films and it's I'm gonna try to start doing some
AI stuff with ideas of my own like take my ideas
brave of you to keep like sailing your boat in
X when everybody else is just seeing it as like
a shitstorm. I'm also on the others too. I'm
on threads. I'm on blue sky. I'm on all of them.
Yeah, but I feel like that's my piece with that.
of just being a place that just puts my unfiltered
opinions and just like shitposting there every
everything else has been like you know just putting
out my videos or whatever blue skies like only
specifically food for me uh that's awesome only
only food related posts only food related totally
but it's real a real note all all one word is
that what i'm hearing anywhere that you want
to yeah learn about everything that this guy
knows do it man I guess we'll go ahead and call
it there. As always, I'm Michael LeBlanc. This
has been Johnny Johnson. And if you miss next
month's episode still, it's your loss. Talk to
you guys later. Bye -bye.