WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.500 All right. There we go. So, uh, how was your 00:00:05.500 --> 00:00:09.019 day? Not bad. Worked like usual, busy running 00:00:09.019 --> 00:00:12.759 around. Lots of stuff going on. Yeah, me too. 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:15.359 Me too. A lot of stuff in the office that I work 00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:17.460 at. A lot of new stuff that I have to do. It 00:00:17.460 --> 00:00:19.620 keeps me away from scrolling on the phone and 00:00:19.620 --> 00:00:22.160 doing things that don't get me paid. So, uh, 00:00:22.179 --> 00:00:25.640 I, I welcome it. Busy few days one of our trucks 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:27.800 broke down at work So now we're down to one truck 00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:29.600 and we got a bunch of funerals going on this 00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:32.100 week So a lot of back -and -forth stuff. How 00:00:32.100 --> 00:00:34.719 big is the area that you work in? If I to put 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:38.420 it like square miles probably like 60 or so 60 00:00:38.420 --> 00:00:42.079 70 It's a pretty big area one truck for all that 00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:45.020 Yeah, and the problem is our other turn up broke 00:00:45.020 --> 00:00:47.240 was a dump truck. So we can't dig holes I have 00:00:47.240 --> 00:00:51.670 to drive a 310 backhoe around my god Tri -County 00:00:51.670 --> 00:00:53.990 area right now, if I have to dig something. No, 00:00:53.990 --> 00:00:55.789 that's definitely not making your job easier. 00:00:56.869 --> 00:01:01.750 No. Oh, goodness. We had some problems that they 00:01:01.750 --> 00:01:04.150 were equipment related, i .e. somebody walked 00:01:04.150 --> 00:01:07.049 away with it. Yeah, we came in and somebody had 00:01:07.049 --> 00:01:09.189 helped themselves to the trailers that we have 00:01:09.189 --> 00:01:11.450 and there's a bunch of hand tools and stuff in 00:01:11.450 --> 00:01:13.549 there. Evidently, they weren't ready to take 00:01:13.549 --> 00:01:15.010 anything big or whatnot because they didn't take 00:01:15.010 --> 00:01:16.209 anything big. They took a whole bunch of stuff 00:01:16.209 --> 00:01:19.049 that they could carry with their hands. my boss 00:01:19.049 --> 00:01:20.950 said hey we did everything right we had everything 00:01:20.950 --> 00:01:22.989 locked even the one that they couldn't cut they 00:01:22.989 --> 00:01:26.290 cut the hasp around the lock so you know locks 00:01:26.290 --> 00:01:31.730 only keep honest people honest so exactly it's 00:01:31.730 --> 00:01:33.250 a it's a minor setback I don't think it's really 00:01:33.250 --> 00:01:36.290 gonna like throw us like too far of a loop in 00:01:36.290 --> 00:01:38.689 our schedule and everything but we will we will 00:01:38.689 --> 00:01:41.609 overcome and persevere damn it yeah that's what 00:01:41.609 --> 00:01:45.819 they got insurance for right So how about we 00:01:45.819 --> 00:01:49.060 just Go ahead and say the the beginning stuff 00:01:49.060 --> 00:01:51.379 and just get this conversation started John. 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:58.459 Yeah Welcome to it's your loss podcast where 00:01:58.459 --> 00:02:00.959 raw stories of resilience and healing are told 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:04.000 all while uncovering and destigmatizing the diverse 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:09.610 symptoms of loss Welcome back to the podcast. 00:02:09.770 --> 00:02:12.729 If you missed the inauguration episode in the 00:02:12.729 --> 00:02:15.430 beginning of this year, well, still, it's your 00:02:15.430 --> 00:02:18.469 loss. I'm host Michael LeBlanc and this is John 00:02:18.469 --> 00:02:21.610 Angle, a newly acquired friend of mine who works 00:02:21.610 --> 00:02:25.569 with death a lot, but recently has had something 00:02:25.569 --> 00:02:28.370 kind of shake him in the world of death. And 00:02:28.370 --> 00:02:31.295 I'm here to talk to you, John. I'm here to get... 00:02:31.289 --> 00:02:33.650 All of the emotions out of your brain. Yeah, 00:02:33.650 --> 00:02:36.289 so because mine's giant angle I deal in death. 00:02:36.330 --> 00:02:38.270 I'm a great figure and my loss recently as I 00:02:38.270 --> 00:02:40.909 lost my dog of 13 years cake She was a really 00:02:40.909 --> 00:02:43.969 big part of my life Dealing with death this should 00:02:43.969 --> 00:02:46.090 have been something I could have I thought I 00:02:46.090 --> 00:02:48.009 would have been able to handle it easier But 00:02:48.009 --> 00:02:50.409 it's just been really emotionally straining on 00:02:50.409 --> 00:02:57.069 me a big struggle Yeah, uh How how much death 00:02:57.069 --> 00:02:59.129 in your life or loss it doesn't even necessarily 00:02:59.129 --> 00:03:02.189 have to be death how much big losses do you think 00:03:02.189 --> 00:03:06.849 you've had enough to kind of dig up the old five 00:03:06.849 --> 00:03:10.930 symptoms of loss machine? Yeah, I think I think 00:03:10.930 --> 00:03:12.810 I'm stuck in a part of it right now. I think 00:03:12.810 --> 00:03:15.449 I'm I'm sort of like the depression stage. I'm 00:03:15.449 --> 00:03:18.870 not quite at acceptance on it. I mean, I've had 00:03:18.870 --> 00:03:21.250 some family in the past, obviously, go friends, 00:03:21.270 --> 00:03:23.250 people I've known are close to me, but I've gotten 00:03:23.250 --> 00:03:25.349 through all those relatively easy, you know, 00:03:25.430 --> 00:03:28.069 shed some tears then there and a month or so 00:03:28.069 --> 00:03:33.319 later. weeks go by, I'm pretty good. It's been 00:03:33.319 --> 00:03:36.180 at least two months now and it still hurts as 00:03:36.180 --> 00:03:40.539 bad as it did. I'm still kind of past the bargaining 00:03:40.539 --> 00:03:43.759 parts and all that. I'm kind of floating around 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:51.219 somewhere in the middle. I will say this, having 00:03:51.219 --> 00:03:54.759 dealt with a little bit myself and talking to 00:03:54.759 --> 00:03:57.939 a whole bunch of other people as is the is what 00:03:57.939 --> 00:04:03.659 I've set myself to do in this podcast. The timetable 00:04:03.659 --> 00:04:06.740 of grief is not one that's ever etched in stone. 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:08.460 It's very fluid. You never really know what's 00:04:08.460 --> 00:04:10.639 going to hit you harder and whatnot. But I'd 00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:15.360 love to hopefully help you by just at least talking 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:19.379 about this, starting from the top and just working 00:04:19.379 --> 00:04:21.699 away to your art now. Like you said, you don't 00:04:21.699 --> 00:04:24.720 feel like you should reach acceptance yet. But 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:27.209 maybe just talking about it. with somebody might 00:04:27.209 --> 00:04:29.970 help so i mean if you're if you're down we can 00:04:29.970 --> 00:04:31.769 go ahead and get started to the the meat and 00:04:31.769 --> 00:04:33.709 potatoes of this and of course and that's why 00:04:33.709 --> 00:04:35.670 i originally reached out in the first place because 00:04:35.670 --> 00:04:38.110 i felt like getting a non -biased party someone 00:04:38.110 --> 00:04:40.329 who wasn't tied to it essentially getting and 00:04:40.329 --> 00:04:42.389 then building up my story out in your style of 00:04:42.389 --> 00:04:44.750 format i think that would really help me get 00:04:44.750 --> 00:04:48.269 get somewhere get to closure you know yeah i 00:04:48.269 --> 00:04:51.139 hope so Well, please, excuse me. It's not very 00:04:51.139 --> 00:04:53.360 often that I have something in front of me to 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:57.459 read, but I feel like I'm trying to add a little 00:04:57.459 --> 00:05:00.939 bit more structure to all this. But this is more 00:05:00.939 --> 00:05:03.680 along the lines. There's nothing, there's no 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:06.920 like actual like anything steeled and ironed 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:12.220 in with girders or anything like that. The first 00:05:12.220 --> 00:05:14.279 thing, I want to make sure that I got the name 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:17.300 right. Did you say Cake, C -A -K -E or Cake? 00:05:19.180 --> 00:05:22.819 Okay. Great name. And I know that from the little 00:05:22.819 --> 00:05:24.519 bit of conversation that we had, you said that 00:05:24.519 --> 00:05:27.300 you got her, she was like six months? Six weeks. 00:05:27.800 --> 00:05:30.639 Six weeks. Six weeks. Yeah. Just started eating 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:33.139 solid food. Tell me about the name. Why Cake? 00:05:34.379 --> 00:05:36.879 So growing up, big fan of the cartoon show Adventure 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:38.540 Time. I don't know if you've probably seen it 00:05:38.540 --> 00:05:40.879 or heard of it. Oh, I love it. I love it. I feel 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:43.160 like everybody should see it. Exactly. They had 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:45.819 the one episode, Theo didn't take the gender 00:05:45.819 --> 00:05:49.529 swap one. Yeah. when i got her female dog so 00:05:49.529 --> 00:05:51.529 i couldn't ever take the dog and i figured you 00:05:51.529 --> 00:05:53.730 know take the dog would be good and nobody can 00:05:53.730 --> 00:05:56.329 ever be mad at cake you can't be mad and yell 00:05:56.329 --> 00:05:59.569 cake yeah it's like trying to yell the word bubbles 00:05:59.569 --> 00:06:02.610 doesn't it doesn't come out the the mouth the 00:06:02.610 --> 00:06:06.449 same way I am a huge fan of Adventure Time and 00:06:06.449 --> 00:06:08.689 I actually I don't know if you've seen the the 00:06:08.689 --> 00:06:11.230 episodes that are available on HBO or Max or 00:06:11.230 --> 00:06:14.589 whatever it is called, but there is a wonderful 00:06:14.589 --> 00:06:18.810 series about Fiona and cake and How they they 00:06:18.810 --> 00:06:20.829 they wind up like coming out of the mind of Simon 00:06:20.829 --> 00:06:22.449 and they're like real flesh and blood in the 00:06:22.449 --> 00:06:24.550 real world It's great. It's great. I have to 00:06:24.550 --> 00:06:27.350 check that out. Absolutely And also the Adventure 00:06:27.350 --> 00:06:30.389 Time other lands or something like they were 00:06:30.389 --> 00:06:33.029 it was a short series where there were like 45 00:06:33.029 --> 00:06:35.230 minute long episodes. One of them is about the 00:06:35.230 --> 00:06:37.310 world of the dead. It's great. It's great. Check 00:06:37.310 --> 00:06:40.350 it out. So cake at six weeks old. I love it. 00:06:40.350 --> 00:06:43.930 I love that name. Why, why a dog? I guess really. 00:06:44.069 --> 00:06:46.990 Are you a dog person? I am a dog person. I've 00:06:46.990 --> 00:06:49.389 had a couple of dogs growing up, you know, and 00:06:49.389 --> 00:06:52.509 as a kid, not old enough to understand. They 00:06:52.509 --> 00:06:55.310 come times, you know, ran away. So I'd have for 00:06:55.310 --> 00:06:57.110 a couple of years as a family dog named my brother. 00:06:57.189 --> 00:06:59.490 Then one day we come up from school and the dog's 00:06:59.490 --> 00:07:02.420 gone. So. It's more like a family thing. She 00:07:02.420 --> 00:07:06.560 was my first like my pet like I was responsible 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:08.459 for her I took care of her, you know a type of 00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:11.819 thing was my first like adult pet type of thing 00:07:11.819 --> 00:07:15.160 and I Was in a weird spot in between jobs and 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:19.180 I had nothing to do and friend of a friend They 00:07:19.180 --> 00:07:21.939 had a dog it had a litter of pit bull terriers. 00:07:21.939 --> 00:07:24.060 That's what she is sort of the American Stadfordshire 00:07:24.060 --> 00:07:26.699 terriers want to get technical but um He was 00:07:26.699 --> 00:07:28.019 gonna be one of my other questions. What kind 00:07:28.019 --> 00:07:31.689 of dog got there? Yeah, but um He ended up bringing 00:07:31.689 --> 00:07:34.170 her up to show me, he was a seller to me, but 00:07:34.170 --> 00:07:36.329 the moment he gave me her, she just immediately 00:07:36.329 --> 00:07:38.709 crawled up me, nuzzled into my neck, and was 00:07:38.709 --> 00:07:42.269 just so at home and peaceful. He's like, clearly 00:07:42.269 --> 00:07:43.910 that dog's made for you, and he just gave me 00:07:43.910 --> 00:07:46.790 the dog for free. Well, I love that. Just on 00:07:46.790 --> 00:07:48.449 the spot, like, nope, that's your dog now. He 00:07:48.449 --> 00:07:50.350 goes, don't even worry about it, goes, all yours. 00:07:50.550 --> 00:07:53.089 Oh man, there's only been a few times in my life 00:07:53.089 --> 00:07:56.920 that I've had a choice of... of getting an animal 00:07:56.920 --> 00:07:59.199 and then like you know that immediate attachment 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:01.120 like I've had a lot of I've had a lot of cats 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:03.939 in my life and there are not a lot of cats that 00:08:03.939 --> 00:08:06.420 automatically latch on to you like that but there's 00:08:06.420 --> 00:08:09.019 been a couple in my life and that feeling is 00:08:09.019 --> 00:08:12.740 it's a nice feeling it's it is she was only like 00:08:12.740 --> 00:08:15.279 maybe four or five pounds like literally this 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:17.600 big you could put her in like a cargo pocket 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:19.579 once you when I first got her so I used to carry 00:08:19.579 --> 00:08:21.980 around I'd wear big like bdu jackets and stuff 00:08:21.980 --> 00:08:24.180 like that have her in a pocket or something else 00:08:24.180 --> 00:08:25.579 stuffed in my hoodie pocket with her whole head 00:08:25.579 --> 00:08:27.740 poking out. So she was always with me until she 00:08:27.740 --> 00:08:29.759 was six, seven months old and I started going 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:31.480 back to work and like leaving her at home regularly 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:35.759 without me. Yeah. So any things with anxiety 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:38.899 or anything or? No, she was, I mean, for me or 00:08:38.899 --> 00:08:41.639 her? Well, let's say her. But we can talk about 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:43.980 your anxiety too, if you'd like. No, luckily 00:08:43.980 --> 00:08:46.370 I... I still live with my parents. I help them 00:08:46.370 --> 00:08:48.330 take care of their house, stuff like that. They're 00:08:48.330 --> 00:08:50.269 both elderly and not in great health. So she 00:08:50.269 --> 00:08:52.450 always had someone to be with at home. She really 00:08:52.450 --> 00:08:55.929 laughed around with my parents too. So she always 00:08:55.929 --> 00:08:58.129 had somebody to be with. And one of my favorite 00:08:58.129 --> 00:09:00.129 things, I miss it every day. When I get home 00:09:00.129 --> 00:09:02.830 from work, a big front bay window with a couch 00:09:02.830 --> 00:09:04.570 next to it. So every day I'd pull in my car, 00:09:04.690 --> 00:09:06.909 she'd be standing there waiting for me in the 00:09:06.909 --> 00:09:09.970 window. You know, I have a cat that does that. 00:09:10.210 --> 00:09:13.570 Not very often do you have a cat who's like, 00:09:13.549 --> 00:09:16.210 so about you that he shows up at the door like 00:09:16.210 --> 00:09:18.690 as soon as he hears you. And he's starting to 00:09:18.690 --> 00:09:20.769 do it with my wife too. It took him a couple 00:09:20.769 --> 00:09:23.389 of years to get to that point. But I mean, that's 00:09:23.389 --> 00:09:26.250 the great thing about a cat or a pet in general, 00:09:26.429 --> 00:09:30.389 not just a cat, a pet that is excited to see 00:09:30.389 --> 00:09:32.990 you and shows you that thing that we all know 00:09:32.990 --> 00:09:36.429 that we are like, we are their life. Like they 00:09:36.429 --> 00:09:38.909 are parts of our life because we've got work, 00:09:39.049 --> 00:09:42.929 we've got taxes, we've got tariffs to worry about. 00:09:43.090 --> 00:09:45.769 Exactly. Topical. But, you know, for them, it's 00:09:45.769 --> 00:09:48.190 just like, hey, you're home. It's time to feed 00:09:48.190 --> 00:09:51.070 me, pet me, love me, let me be part of your life. 00:09:51.110 --> 00:09:53.750 Those kind of pets are just, they're just great. 00:09:54.149 --> 00:09:57.710 And from what I remember, you had, you had 13 00:09:57.710 --> 00:10:01.409 years, right? Yeah. Yep. Same place, like? Same 00:10:01.409 --> 00:10:03.370 place. She lived in the same house. You know, 00:10:03.370 --> 00:10:05.710 I'm still here, but she lived in the same place, 00:10:05.909 --> 00:10:08.870 ran around the same property and community for 00:10:08.870 --> 00:10:12.600 her whole life. Okay. Well, that's uh, that's 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:15.759 that's the nice warm awesome parts of it, but 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:21.279 let's uh, let me ask what happened so She ended 00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:24.259 up picking up I never had her spayed as a at 00:10:24.259 --> 00:10:25.899 all important away She had puppies when she was 00:10:25.899 --> 00:10:28.480 five, but never to stay and I guess it that can 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:32.059 lead to In an elderly dog they can get an infection 00:10:32.059 --> 00:10:35.340 when they're in heat or going through them At 00:10:35.340 --> 00:10:38.000 some point she picked up an infection and she 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:41.090 she hit it pretty well by not letting on to any 00:10:41.090 --> 00:10:43.690 of us that she was feeling ill or anything. And 00:10:43.690 --> 00:10:47.269 then I went out, me and my partner went on vacation 00:10:47.269 --> 00:10:50.669 with her parents. She seemed fine. And over the, 00:10:50.669 --> 00:10:52.590 over the week I was gone, she stopped eating, 00:10:52.909 --> 00:10:54.509 lost a bunch of weight. I got home, she'd probably 00:10:54.509 --> 00:10:57.590 lost 20 pounds. And then a day later it was a 00:10:57.590 --> 00:11:00.190 regular emergency that very short after we found 00:11:00.190 --> 00:11:03.450 out what was happening. Wow. Yeah. And animals, 00:11:03.750 --> 00:11:06.389 especially like, uh, like domesticated mammals, 00:11:06.409 --> 00:11:10.620 um, They, they just live like, like if something 00:11:10.620 --> 00:11:12.200 goes wrong with them, there's like, Oh, this 00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:14.740 is wrong with me now, but it's okay. My owner 00:11:14.740 --> 00:11:16.860 is here. I'm still getting food. Everything's 00:11:16.860 --> 00:11:18.700 fine. It's just something that I have to live 00:11:18.700 --> 00:11:20.940 with. Now. I've seen that happen a couple of 00:11:20.940 --> 00:11:23.940 times in it. It always sucks. Denial. Right. 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:28.559 Yeah. Oh yeah. So tell me about the first, the 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:31.799 first few days after everything was, was said 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:33.960 and done. So the hardest was definitely the next 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:37.350 day going to work because again as a great figure 00:11:37.350 --> 00:11:39.809 we also run a crematorium and I want to thank 00:11:39.809 --> 00:11:42.070 my bosses for being the great people they are 00:11:42.070 --> 00:11:44.169 because I called them the day before because 00:11:44.169 --> 00:11:46.230 we knew we had already scheduled her getting 00:11:46.230 --> 00:11:49.610 put down and the company who did that to semi 00:11:49.610 --> 00:11:52.629 -locals they do house calls so luckily we were 00:11:52.629 --> 00:11:55.129 able to find someone to do a house call so she 00:11:55.129 --> 00:12:00.309 got put down in the house she lived in I thought 00:12:00.309 --> 00:12:04.080 it was better than that but The hardest day was 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:05.720 the next day I went to work because they had 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:07.799 her ashes. They stayed for me waiting to bring 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:10.860 her down after it was over to cremate her for 00:12:10.860 --> 00:12:12.539 me, so I'd have her. The hardest part was getting 00:12:12.539 --> 00:12:15.679 there in the morning. Sorry. It's okay, man. 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:18.399 The hardest part was getting there and my boss 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:20.320 comes and goes, hey, we have her. She's ready 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:23.240 for you. I'm like, okay, I'm not ready. Yeah. 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:27.820 I've recently lost a pet. It was to cancer. Yeah. 00:12:28.059 --> 00:12:30.460 happened quicker than I thought it was going 00:12:30.460 --> 00:12:32.419 to. When I caught it at first, I thought it was 00:12:32.419 --> 00:12:38.000 a hernia. Took them to the vet and they let me 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:40.120 know, it's like, hey, this is a tumor. We can 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:43.360 cut it out now. I'm like, cool. I'd say within 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:45.299 a week, it was twice the size it was when they 00:12:45.299 --> 00:12:49.340 first cut it out. The whole time, I was telling 00:12:49.340 --> 00:12:53.179 myself, it was kind of like a pre -denial type 00:12:53.179 --> 00:12:58.220 thing. If I say that I'm not ready if I say that 00:12:58.220 --> 00:13:00.940 his brother isn't ready. This is somehow going 00:13:00.940 --> 00:13:05.000 to stay the course and that I can keep him alive 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:09.080 and in the back of my mind. And maybe for you 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:11.399 too, you know it's selfish. You know it's selfish, 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:14.620 but it's hard. It's hard. I'm sorry you went 00:13:14.620 --> 00:13:17.879 through that. When did you – how long did it 00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:20.539 take you for you to go – to get that breath in 00:13:20.539 --> 00:13:24.509 and go, okay, you know, I've got to – I've got 00:13:24.509 --> 00:13:26.450 to accept, I've got to accept the ashes. I've 00:13:26.450 --> 00:13:27.950 got to move forward at least with that stage. 00:13:28.490 --> 00:13:31.350 Oh, I waited right till the end of the day. Like 00:13:31.350 --> 00:13:33.830 until like we worked seven to three was 2 45. 00:13:33.909 --> 00:13:35.509 We're getting ready to leave the cemetery. And 00:13:35.509 --> 00:13:37.789 I finally walked back in. I'm like, it's time. 00:13:38.570 --> 00:13:40.289 And then they just ended me like, it's a very 00:13:40.289 --> 00:13:43.070 nice bag. And so they do their, but they handed 00:13:43.070 --> 00:13:45.529 it to me and they gave me a hug. Do you feel 00:13:45.529 --> 00:13:49.649 that you working in the environment you did helped 00:13:49.649 --> 00:13:52.549 any with your thought process during that? Honestly, 00:13:52.610 --> 00:13:55.009 I want to say yes, but I don't think so. I mean, 00:13:55.169 --> 00:13:57.929 it should have, but it really should have. Well, 00:13:57.929 --> 00:14:00.830 it should have when it comes to the human psyche 00:14:00.830 --> 00:14:05.190 is its best wishes at best. So, I mean, what 00:14:05.190 --> 00:14:08.509 about now? Like, you know, two months and, you 00:14:08.509 --> 00:14:11.090 know, you say you've been through a few stages, 00:14:11.149 --> 00:14:13.049 but I mean, is there still any part of you that, 00:14:13.049 --> 00:14:16.710 you know, wakes up in the morning and is ready 00:14:16.710 --> 00:14:18.769 to hear like the paw prints on the floorboard 00:14:18.769 --> 00:14:21.789 or? No, I've accepted that. I know she's, you 00:14:21.789 --> 00:14:25.049 know, she's in her box, she's not. The first 00:14:25.049 --> 00:14:27.409 couple days, I have pellet stoves, you know, 00:14:27.509 --> 00:14:29.169 wood burning pellet stoves, so they kind of, 00:14:29.169 --> 00:14:30.990 in the pellet straw, they kind of make that sound. 00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:33.590 So a couple, a little bit to get used to that 00:14:33.590 --> 00:14:36.110 not being her. But no, I mean, at this point, 00:14:36.129 --> 00:14:41.129 I know, I know she's gone. It's still hard. Of 00:14:41.129 --> 00:14:44.009 course. So that leads you to the next stage, 00:14:44.149 --> 00:14:46.549 which is anger. And I'm going to take a wild 00:14:46.549 --> 00:14:50.000 swing here. and say that there was probably some 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:53.259 internalized anger going on. Oh yeah, a lot of 00:14:53.259 --> 00:14:56.240 it. I was really mad at myself for not noticing 00:14:56.240 --> 00:15:00.879 sooner. Even after our vet recommended some things 00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:03.759 that could have been done, like a surgery or 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:06.460 like an experimental medicine, but both of them 00:15:06.460 --> 00:15:09.519 also could have just killed her in a more painful 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:13.480 way. But like this selfish part, like you said, 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:15.980 part of me was angry for not trying more. doing 00:15:15.980 --> 00:15:18.779 more, noticing it sooner. I thought back to years 00:15:18.779 --> 00:15:20.779 ago, when I didn't get her spayed, I'm like, 00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:23.379 I should have done that, you know, 10 years ago. 00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:25.320 If you don't mind me asking, was it just the 00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:27.179 thing where it just kind of passed you by or 00:15:27.179 --> 00:15:28.559 you thought that everything was going to be okay? 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:30.620 Like, what was the thought process behind that? 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:33.940 My friends, close by friends of mine, have a 00:15:33.940 --> 00:15:36.799 bunch of shepherds and they've never had any 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:39.220 of their spayed. I've known people who just haven't 00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:42.440 gotten them spayed. She's had a litter of puppies 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:46.759 once when she was four, I believe. And that's 00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:48.440 because she got out off her leash, you know, 00:15:48.460 --> 00:15:51.059 ran around, got a little taste of the town type 00:15:51.059 --> 00:15:54.019 of thing. Right. But I mean, after that, I never 00:15:54.019 --> 00:15:56.039 had an issue. I never thought of – I didn't want 00:15:56.039 --> 00:15:58.740 to put her into a surgery because I figured that'd 00:15:58.740 --> 00:16:01.419 be scary for her. And she was healthy and fine, 00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:04.440 not being neutered. She didn't have her promiscuous 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:06.220 life. I didn't have other dogs to worry about. 00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:09.700 So I didn't think it was a big deal. Then later 00:16:09.700 --> 00:16:12.980 on, you're kicking your butt for it. How did 00:16:12.980 --> 00:16:16.820 that – how did her look? I mean, I definitely 00:16:16.820 --> 00:16:18.779 tried to like keep it to myself. I would say 00:16:18.779 --> 00:16:19.879 more or less, you know, it's one of the things 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:24.019 where you're in your car driving to work or you're 00:16:24.019 --> 00:16:26.919 in the shower at night and you're just mad at 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:30.620 yourself, like blaming yourself, looking in the 00:16:30.620 --> 00:16:32.220 mirror like, you should have done better. You 00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:33.980 could have done like, why did you do this type 00:16:33.980 --> 00:16:37.779 of stuff? So it really, it really was internalized. 00:16:38.220 --> 00:16:41.539 I don't know, like at the time that I lost a 00:16:41.539 --> 00:16:45.039 couple of I'm close with people and pet. The 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:46.919 last time I lost a person, it was my father. 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:51.340 And the anger, there was a lot of anger for me 00:16:51.340 --> 00:16:54.320 and mine was, it was all external. I don't know, 00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:56.759 I kind of just wanted to let it out. Like I did 00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:59.559 a lot of screaming, I snapped at people. It was, 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:03.039 I don't know, I just, I knew that those emotions, 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:05.559 like they become acid eventually, if you keep 00:17:05.559 --> 00:17:09.000 them in there for too long. Which, if anybody 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:11.359 watches anything I say, you'll hear me say eventually 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:14.359 that anxiety and anger are a lot smaller and 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:16.079 more easier to deal with when they're out of 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:20.000 your chest. Was there anybody you could, like, 00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:23.039 just kind of vent to? Did you want to vent to 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:24.680 anybody? I mean, I definitely had people I could 00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:26.539 have vented to, my partner, I got a bunch of 00:17:26.539 --> 00:17:28.259 close friends, people who reached out to me during 00:17:28.259 --> 00:17:30.640 the day of, day prior to it, like the whole thing 00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:33.940 going down, but I didn't want to. I guess, again, 00:17:34.019 --> 00:17:36.099 part of my whole profession, I was trying to... 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.640 put on the brave face and try to bear the burden 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:41.460 for everybody else who is also sad and dealing 00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:44.880 with that one to be strong for them type of thing, 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:47.640 I guess you could say. Fair enough. And like 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:51.900 I said, I work in the industry. So I mean, Gravedigger 00:17:51.900 --> 00:17:54.240 is trying to be crying about that. That is an 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:58.319 interesting tableau to see just a really depressed 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:00.940 Gravedigger just bawling into the tears, into 00:18:00.940 --> 00:18:03.660 the dirt. So did anybody acerbate? Acerbate? 00:18:03.710 --> 00:18:05.269 Is that the word? Did anybody make your anger 00:18:05.269 --> 00:18:08.109 worse by like kind of dismissing your feelings? 00:18:08.250 --> 00:18:33.359 I hope not, but it happens with a pet. To me 00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:35.660 was too soon and kind of like getting kind of 00:18:35.660 --> 00:18:38.400 like advocating me that how are you already thinking 00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:42.900 of a new dog? At that point two weeks went by 00:18:42.900 --> 00:18:44.799 Now they started bringing up new pets. I'm like, 00:18:44.900 --> 00:18:46.819 it's it's too soon to be thinking about that 00:18:46.819 --> 00:18:48.720 I kind of started a little something but what 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:50.079 did you get to the point where they understood? 00:18:50.619 --> 00:18:53.920 Yeah. Yeah, that's good. That's good. Was there 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:57.700 anything else that you felt that was I Don't 00:18:57.700 --> 00:18:59.960 know kind of burning at you or was that was that 00:18:59.960 --> 00:19:03.470 pretty much it I mean I said most of it was just 00:19:03.470 --> 00:19:06.109 things that I retrospectively could have done. 00:19:06.230 --> 00:19:08.109 You know, the old hindsight type of things was 00:19:08.109 --> 00:19:10.130 really burning at me. Not so much other people 00:19:10.130 --> 00:19:13.450 and their reactions. For the most part, nobody 00:19:13.450 --> 00:19:16.970 really pressed issues about it or like many things 00:19:16.970 --> 00:19:19.470 like comments that would seem off -putting for 00:19:19.470 --> 00:19:22.029 about losing a pet type of thing. A lot more 00:19:22.029 --> 00:19:24.130 of it was just about things that I wish I could 00:19:24.130 --> 00:19:27.809 have done better or would have realized or everything 00:19:27.809 --> 00:19:29.890 you wish you could have done that you can't, 00:19:29.910 --> 00:19:32.619 type of thing. I feel like if anything that that 00:19:32.619 --> 00:19:34.680 naturally goes into the bargaining stage right 00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:38.579 there, right? Yeah. I mean, that's, I don't know 00:19:38.579 --> 00:19:40.980 what your belief on a higher power is or anything 00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:43.640 like that, but you know, a lot of people, if 00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:47.180 they do have something where they feel that can 00:19:47.180 --> 00:19:50.099 right the wrong, a lot of, you know, a lot of 00:19:50.099 --> 00:19:53.059 hard, sad or angry prayers or just thoughts out 00:19:53.059 --> 00:19:55.019 there to the universe is like, hey, you know, 00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:57.740 if I had a chance, I would do it all over again, 00:19:57.740 --> 00:20:02.259 but I would do something different. And I mean, 00:20:02.380 --> 00:20:04.200 I feel like we've kind of, we've kind of visited. 00:20:04.339 --> 00:20:05.660 So like you already, you've already mentioned 00:20:05.660 --> 00:20:07.779 you, you wish that you had gotten her spayed. 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:10.920 And you know, if it makes you feel any better, 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:14.559 like I'm, I'm an animal guy, dogs, cats, fish, 00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:17.319 hamsters, snails. I've, I've had a pretty good 00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:19.140 plenthora of animals to take care of over my 00:20:19.140 --> 00:20:21.640 life. And some have gone better. Some have gone 00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:25.349 worse, but There are so many things that you 00:20:25.349 --> 00:20:28.289 hear, so many conflicting health ideologies when 00:20:28.289 --> 00:20:31.009 it comes to elective surgeries that might curb 00:20:31.009 --> 00:20:34.609 something later on, diets, even how to care for 00:20:34.609 --> 00:20:36.970 your pet's mental health. There are so many different 00:20:36.970 --> 00:20:40.609 things to bombard you with that you just kind 00:20:40.609 --> 00:20:44.410 of have to choose and hope for the best, especially 00:20:44.410 --> 00:20:47.329 if it's a situation out of love. You're not just 00:20:47.329 --> 00:20:51.609 breeding animals. This is a companion that you... 00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:55.000 you know, carry with you for 13 years. And I'm 00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:57.140 sure somebody's already said this and I hate 00:20:57.140 --> 00:21:00.079 platitudes. I like words. I like to spin together 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.259 words and realize that not the same sentence 00:21:03.259 --> 00:21:07.420 is good for everybody. But I hope someone has 00:21:07.420 --> 00:21:10.079 told you this by now, that you couldn't have 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:14.599 known. Yeah. Okay. Good. Because I hope out of 00:21:14.599 --> 00:21:16.319 anything, if anybody else said to you, because 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:18.539 you couldn't have. We try so hard to read the 00:21:18.539 --> 00:21:21.380 future, man. And we just We can't do it. We can't 00:21:21.380 --> 00:21:23.200 read minds, and we can't read the future. We 00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:25.140 kind of suck at that as human beings. I mean, 00:21:25.180 --> 00:21:27.240 honestly, even the day we rushed her to the emergency 00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:29.880 vet, he even told me that, and I goes, hey, this 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:31.519 is something that doesn't happen very often, 00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:34.339 because you wouldn't have known until it gets 00:21:34.339 --> 00:21:39.720 to that point where it's too late. Good. That's 00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:40.880 a good doctor. I'll be honest with you. Some 00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:42.779 doctors don't do that. They just look at you 00:21:42.779 --> 00:21:44.460 and go, this is what you should have done. And 00:21:44.460 --> 00:21:46.619 I'm like, are you really coming at me with that 00:21:46.619 --> 00:21:49.039 energy right now? What the fuck is wrong with 00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:53.980 you? Oh, man. Were there any other things that 00:21:53.980 --> 00:21:55.900 you were thinking of that you could have done 00:21:55.900 --> 00:21:58.539 differently? I mean, now's the time. Get it out. 00:21:59.019 --> 00:22:01.299 Honestly, health -wise, she had a healthy life. 00:22:01.420 --> 00:22:03.400 I mean, other than like spaying, if I would have 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:05.079 known that. I think the only thing I could have 00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:08.380 done differently, if I could have, I would have 00:22:08.380 --> 00:22:12.630 spent more time with her. Amen to that. That's 00:22:12.630 --> 00:22:15.049 amazing. That's a blessing in itself, man. The 00:22:15.049 --> 00:22:17.130 fact that that's the only other thing that you 00:22:17.130 --> 00:22:19.190 can think of and shit. I'll be honest with you, 00:22:19.269 --> 00:22:22.809 I'd love my cat to death. He's so comforting 00:22:22.809 --> 00:22:25.450 when I'm here. He's so chill. He's one of the 00:22:25.450 --> 00:22:28.210 best cat -like cats I've ever had in my life. 00:22:28.410 --> 00:22:30.690 I give him the good stuff on the weekends, the 00:22:30.690 --> 00:22:33.990 catnip. We both take our medicine at the same 00:22:33.990 --> 00:22:37.190 time every day. Like he knows it's eight o 'clock 00:22:37.190 --> 00:22:40.829 dad, it's time for my hyperthyroidism and it's 00:22:40.829 --> 00:22:43.670 time for your diabetes. Like it's, and I'll be 00:22:43.670 --> 00:22:45.549 honest with you, every time I see him, it's like, 00:22:45.549 --> 00:22:47.369 man, I could have spent a little bit more time 00:22:47.369 --> 00:22:49.390 with you today, but I got to go make money to 00:22:49.390 --> 00:22:50.990 afford the medicine that we both take at eight 00:22:50.990 --> 00:22:53.349 o 'clock. And yeah, like I said, it's a blessing 00:22:53.349 --> 00:22:55.289 to only have those two things. I hope you see 00:22:55.289 --> 00:22:57.569 it like that. I can't force that view on you, 00:22:57.589 --> 00:23:00.069 but from the outside looking in, I'm really glad 00:23:00.069 --> 00:23:02.630 you don't have bigger and more regrets, man. 00:23:05.439 --> 00:23:08.119 I mean, gets in trouble once in a while. She'd 00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:10.500 now go through the trash here and there. No more 00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:12.839 than, you know, an average dog, but she was a 00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:16.480 good dog overall. She was quiet. She barked. 00:23:16.619 --> 00:23:18.740 They're like, biggest thing, doesn't like bicycles. 00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:21.259 Not people on, but doesn't like bicycles. Don't 00:23:21.259 --> 00:23:25.720 know why. It's not about two wheels. I don't 00:23:25.720 --> 00:23:30.059 know. Gravity, physics. What about, what about 00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:31.819 motorcycle? They don't like those either. They 00:23:31.819 --> 00:23:34.430 don't like loud stuff. so yeah all right so two 00:23:34.430 --> 00:23:37.109 wheels and making two wheels louder yeah probably 00:23:37.109 --> 00:23:41.670 wasn't it just wouldn't wouldn't fit man well 00:23:41.670 --> 00:23:46.650 i mean i'm not going to say and in fact i i am 00:23:46.650 --> 00:23:48.349 going to say but believe me this this is not 00:23:48.349 --> 00:23:51.849 my viewpoint that you know as we've been talking 00:23:51.849 --> 00:23:57.630 you've you've shown your emotion i mean and and 00:23:57.630 --> 00:24:00.970 that's that's great. That's huge. Because again, 00:24:01.069 --> 00:24:04.650 keeping it in is just horrible. But I don't think 00:24:04.650 --> 00:24:08.230 necessarily the fact that you're quick to get 00:24:08.230 --> 00:24:10.950 into the fields and maybe have a cry that necessarily 00:24:10.950 --> 00:24:13.829 like it's part of like a depression type thing. 00:24:14.509 --> 00:24:16.549 I think it's more along the lines of just still 00:24:16.549 --> 00:24:19.390 raw wounds. But depression is the next stage. 00:24:19.630 --> 00:24:22.269 I think maybe if you want to, I would love to 00:24:22.269 --> 00:24:26.240 hear what were some of your hardest moments that 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:29.559 just kind of drove it home for you. That cake 00:24:29.559 --> 00:24:33.500 was where cake is. I mean, I think first of all, 00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:40.019 the hardest moment was I knew she passed. They 00:24:40.019 --> 00:24:43.680 came, I got to hold her. And like when they put 00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:46.099 the two shots in the first shot to push the sleeve 00:24:46.099 --> 00:24:50.680 and I held her until, you know, the stethoscope 00:24:50.680 --> 00:24:55.740 and that, I mean, between that moment, and getting 00:24:55.740 --> 00:24:58.559 her ashes back. Like, I was almost unfit, so 00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:00.599 I just, I really couldn't be positive with anything, 00:25:01.259 --> 00:25:03.099 just other than thinking of her. I don't know, 00:25:03.220 --> 00:25:06.460 it was carrying her to the car and carrying her 00:25:06.460 --> 00:25:09.980 out of the car to the facility to have her cremated. 00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:11.880 I mean, I feel like that's probably the saddest 00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:13.319 I've, I don't think I've ever been that sad for 00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:15.700 my entire life over anything. I mean, that was 00:25:15.700 --> 00:25:18.279 the hardest thing I've, I feel like I've ever 00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:23.329 had to deal with. Well, I mean, it's a huge downswing 00:25:23.329 --> 00:25:25.789 on emotions in general. And I'll be honest with 00:25:25.789 --> 00:25:28.150 you, handling anything that's past, I don't know 00:25:28.150 --> 00:25:31.450 what it's about in my childhood or whatever in 00:25:31.450 --> 00:25:34.470 my life that has made me feel physically uncomfortable, 00:25:34.650 --> 00:25:37.609 like on my hands and arms, wherever I'm touching, 00:25:37.849 --> 00:25:40.589 whatever dead thing happens to be touching me 00:25:40.589 --> 00:25:43.109 at the time. Maybe it's just natural revulsion. 00:25:43.109 --> 00:25:46.650 I'm not quite sure what it is, but it felt like 00:25:46.650 --> 00:25:49.339 it added to it. It added It added that depression 00:25:49.339 --> 00:25:52.619 feeling of like a real depression feeling of 00:25:52.619 --> 00:25:57.299 body aches to go along with the doldrums that 00:25:57.299 --> 00:26:00.759 you're in. Is those kinds of moments, those kinds 00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:04.279 of feelings, they kind of shape what you do on 00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:07.299 the days, weeks, months after. What would you 00:26:07.299 --> 00:26:10.380 say is your most noticeable change in the way 00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:13.480 that you do your day -to -day stuff that feels 00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:18.990 might be due to this emotion? Well, I have Raj's 00:26:18.990 --> 00:26:22.170 help now, but I have her dog bed set up in the 00:26:22.170 --> 00:26:24.230 back room of her house in the corner. All of 00:26:24.230 --> 00:26:26.630 her toys, her leftover treats. I don't know what 00:26:26.630 --> 00:26:28.869 to think of that she liked. Every morning I get 00:26:28.869 --> 00:26:31.630 my cup of coffee. I say good morning to her. 00:26:32.109 --> 00:26:35.849 I know. I mean, to acceptance would be to finally 00:26:35.849 --> 00:26:38.430 like it's my shrine, but I want to put her up 00:26:38.430 --> 00:26:40.990 on her shelf, you know, like to actually not 00:26:40.990 --> 00:26:45.049 have not have that. And I feel like that's. What 00:26:45.049 --> 00:26:46.589 they can get past that part of it right now, 00:26:46.670 --> 00:26:48.150 which is like a my depression. It's still in 00:26:48.150 --> 00:26:51.789 her at least in her bed I still see every morning, 00:26:51.829 --> 00:26:54.369 but I feel like once they get you know past this 00:26:54.369 --> 00:26:56.329 part I can you know take her stuff. You know 00:26:56.329 --> 00:26:58.170 away put pack I'm not gonna get rid of them gonna 00:26:58.170 --> 00:27:01.630 pack it up, but Like I finally put on display. 00:27:02.109 --> 00:27:05.569 You know she should be right now, but When I 00:27:05.569 --> 00:27:07.750 get to that step, I think that's all I'm gonna 00:27:07.750 --> 00:27:10.130 get to my acceptance, but right now It's I know 00:27:10.130 --> 00:27:12.650 she's but it helps that I have her where she 00:27:12.650 --> 00:27:17.230 is now That makes sense. Oh, definitely. Again, 00:27:17.230 --> 00:27:20.710 there's no timetable on this. It's not like she's, 00:27:20.750 --> 00:27:22.369 I don't know if you believe in an afterlife. 00:27:22.369 --> 00:27:25.150 If you do, it's not like she's up there looking 00:27:25.150 --> 00:27:28.589 down at you going, hey, come on. Come on, hurry 00:27:28.589 --> 00:27:31.750 up. My mom always used to tell me that death 00:27:31.750 --> 00:27:36.910 is all about the living. And I never fully understood 00:27:36.910 --> 00:27:39.170 that until she passed away. And I'll be honest 00:27:39.170 --> 00:27:41.430 with you, you didn't really even start really 00:27:41.430 --> 00:27:43.660 believing it until therapy much later. when I 00:27:43.660 --> 00:27:45.500 realized that I just, the grief, the way that 00:27:45.500 --> 00:27:47.059 I was handing on my grief, I was raw dogging 00:27:47.059 --> 00:27:51.460 it. These things that I tell people now and these 00:27:51.460 --> 00:27:53.359 conversations that I engage with, I wasn't having 00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:57.000 any of that. For me, dealing with trauma was 00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:01.140 sarcasm and creation. Arch videos, lose myself 00:28:01.140 --> 00:28:03.980 in the act of creating something. And then when 00:28:03.980 --> 00:28:05.619 anybody wants to talk about it, you know, just 00:28:05.619 --> 00:28:08.539 have jokes, which don't get me wrong. I have 00:28:08.539 --> 00:28:11.819 a whole playlist on my TikTok called, uh, skull 00:28:11.819 --> 00:28:17.660 parents skull, because no one ever expects a 00:28:17.660 --> 00:28:22.200 dead parent joke. And if they do, they're probably 00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:26.180 following me. It doesn't sound like you're, you're, 00:28:26.180 --> 00:28:28.420 uh, you're writing. Well, I don't know. It sounds 00:28:28.420 --> 00:28:30.160 like you're writing into acceptance, John. If 00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:31.799 I'm, if I'm to be honest, it doesn't sound like 00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:34.619 you're there yet. Sounds like you're slowly plotting 00:28:34.619 --> 00:28:37.960 your way into there. And that is fine. And I'll 00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:39.819 be honest with you, keep having these kinds of 00:28:39.819 --> 00:28:41.319 conversations with people who are willing to 00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:44.099 have them with you, because that's going to be 00:28:44.099 --> 00:28:45.980 invaluable. You're going to look back on that. 00:28:46.539 --> 00:28:50.700 And in this moment, as fresh as it is, you can't 00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:52.980 see it now, but you're going to look back, be 00:28:52.980 --> 00:28:54.619 happy for the moments that you did have where 00:28:54.619 --> 00:28:56.619 you were able to talk to people who actually 00:28:56.619 --> 00:28:58.819 cared about your situation and is going to bring 00:28:58.819 --> 00:29:03.259 a smile to your face. Oh, yeah. But. By all means, 00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:06.859 don't force that now because it's disingenuous. 00:29:07.779 --> 00:29:10.700 So here we are. I feel like you're in depression. 00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:14.160 What are your coping mechanisms? What does coping 00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:16.819 look like to you? Honestly, just trying to keep 00:29:16.819 --> 00:29:19.460 busy with stuff like work or socialing with my 00:29:19.460 --> 00:29:21.900 friends or I play a lot of video games in my 00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:24.200 free time too when I can. Just try to keep myself 00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:27.740 occupied doing something else. Like keep going, 00:29:27.900 --> 00:29:30.000 you know, just moving around, mind occupied, 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:34.299 stuff like that. You know idle hands and that 00:29:34.299 --> 00:29:37.279 situation does allow the brain to kind of keep 00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:41.599 going back to those memories of thoughts Yeah, 00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:44.319 what kind of video games you're into right now? 00:29:45.019 --> 00:29:47.180 I play a lot of first person shooters most of 00:29:47.180 --> 00:29:50.180 the time play a lot of armor reforger right now 00:29:50.629 --> 00:29:53.970 So me and my one buddy started playing some hunting 00:29:53.970 --> 00:29:56.549 game. It was on Xbox Game Pass. It was pretty 00:29:56.549 --> 00:29:58.549 hokey. So we thought, hey, it'd be fun to play 00:29:58.549 --> 00:30:01.049 that, run around, shoot some animals and wildlife 00:30:01.049 --> 00:30:03.029 type of preserve situation. So we've been doing 00:30:03.029 --> 00:30:05.750 that past couple of days. It's very hokey type 00:30:05.750 --> 00:30:07.789 of game. It's fun to screw around with your friends 00:30:07.789 --> 00:30:10.890 and more of us just chit -chatting and bullshitting 00:30:10.890 --> 00:30:14.630 than doing anything really intensive. And I think 00:30:14.630 --> 00:30:16.390 that's what's helping me a lot, just chatting 00:30:16.390 --> 00:30:20.450 with my friends on consoles or like that. I'm 00:30:20.450 --> 00:30:21.930 excited to do it, just talking to people, not 00:30:21.930 --> 00:30:24.269 even about the dog or the loss, just like you 00:30:24.269 --> 00:30:26.150 said, idle mind, idle hand, just trying to keep 00:30:26.150 --> 00:30:30.130 something going. Yeah. Video games and coping 00:30:30.130 --> 00:30:35.589 for me, especially in the fresh few months, weeks 00:30:35.589 --> 00:30:39.009 or months, depending on how hard it hit me, that's 00:30:39.009 --> 00:30:41.150 always been huge for me. In fact, I can remember 00:30:41.150 --> 00:30:44.230 the first time that I really got upset. Well, 00:30:44.289 --> 00:30:47.289 kind of. I don't know how I really handled it. 00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:53.599 was young 13 14 had a dog who the first real 00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:56.900 dog that we had because we had had like Dogs 00:30:56.900 --> 00:30:59.099 like right when I was young and then like a whole 00:30:59.099 --> 00:31:02.779 slew of cats But my dad was gifted to dog and 00:31:02.779 --> 00:31:05.000 I was like, alright, cool. I didn't understand 00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:08.440 him. I Knew I liked him. I didn't know how to 00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:10.480 handle dogs. Like I said, I was a cat person 00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:15.480 up to that point but my dad comes and visits 00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:17.420 the place that I'm staying at at my friends. 00:31:19.220 --> 00:31:21.700 It was very weird to have my parents come find 00:31:21.700 --> 00:31:24.279 me there. Normally, they knew if I was over at 00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:28.059 my friend's house that I was good. They didn't 00:31:28.059 --> 00:31:31.180 have to worry about me. Him showing up, I was 00:31:31.180 --> 00:31:32.740 like, what's going on? He's like, hey, I just 00:31:32.740 --> 00:31:35.160 want to let you know that somebody found Skylar, 00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:39.119 the dog, out in the kudzu. If you don't know 00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:41.460 what kudzu is, it's a very fast growing vine. 00:31:41.919 --> 00:31:43.799 in the south and takes over everything, very 00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:46.920 invasive species. But our backyard was just covered 00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:48.539 with it and we said we found him back there. 00:31:48.700 --> 00:31:53.420 He was obviously poisoned. And the way he delivered 00:31:53.420 --> 00:31:55.500 it too, my dad was not a man of tact. He just 00:31:55.500 --> 00:32:01.039 went, someone killed the dog. And I was like, 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:03.720 oh damn, that sucks. He's like, yeah, I'll see 00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:07.640 you at home. And so I go back inside, me and 00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:11.670 my friend, I call him my brother now. uh because 00:32:11.670 --> 00:32:14.589 we've just been through so much shit and we were 00:32:14.589 --> 00:32:17.269 playing Killer Instinct at the time and I I unpaused 00:32:17.269 --> 00:32:19.309 it I just sat down cross -legged in front of 00:32:19.309 --> 00:32:21.210 there and I'm just laser focused on the game 00:32:21.210 --> 00:32:23.549 now and he's like what was that all about and 00:32:23.549 --> 00:32:25.089 I just kind of turned my head I was like someone 00:32:25.089 --> 00:32:31.049 killed my damn dog can we play and between that 00:32:31.049 --> 00:32:34.390 Final Fantasy 7 and Parasite Eve I think those 00:32:34.390 --> 00:32:35.910 were the things that we were playing at that 00:32:35.910 --> 00:32:40.259 point That started me needing that solace in 00:32:40.259 --> 00:32:42.279 the first couple of weeks or months of playing 00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:46.839 video games. Baldur's Gate, I got into that after 00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:49.339 my dad died. Big game to get into with me. If 00:32:49.339 --> 00:32:50.759 you're gonna get lost in a game, might as well 00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:55.480 keep that. That and loud music, man. That was 00:32:55.480 --> 00:32:58.140 one of my coping mechanisms too. Still is, I 00:32:58.140 --> 00:33:00.460 guess. Yeah, I mean, I'm a big fan of music, 00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:04.119 but even at work, I do a lot of audiobooks that 00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:07.009 help me. I gotta focus on something that cannot 00:33:07.009 --> 00:33:10.730 let my mind wander. Yeah. And I guess that's 00:33:10.730 --> 00:33:13.130 really what it's all about for a lot of people 00:33:13.130 --> 00:33:16.190 is to let your mind wander. Let the subconscious, 00:33:16.190 --> 00:33:18.509 I guess, kind of pick up the pieces for a little 00:33:18.509 --> 00:33:20.029 bit. And if there's something wrong, maybe it'll 00:33:20.029 --> 00:33:21.809 start waving and go, hey, I need some attention. 00:33:21.970 --> 00:33:23.869 You're making cereal and you're crying right 00:33:23.869 --> 00:33:31.170 now. We need to address this. Yeah. But I can 00:33:31.170 --> 00:33:35.519 only hope for you that And that you will, you'll 00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:37.680 get to that acceptance. Don't try to push it, 00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:39.980 I feel. I don't think you're trying to. It doesn't 00:33:39.980 --> 00:33:43.039 sound like, but I do want to ask, and it's something 00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:47.319 that I'm always kind of curious of. Are you holding 00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:50.299 what you're feeling right now in relation to 00:33:50.299 --> 00:33:53.240 other losses that you've had? Like, are you trying 00:33:53.240 --> 00:33:56.279 to compare the two? Honestly, I know, because 00:33:56.279 --> 00:33:57.920 I've lost in close runs and stuff like that, 00:33:57.940 --> 00:34:01.039 and nothing does compare to what I feel for the 00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:04.039 loss of my dog. I guess the closeness of her, 00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:08.000 as I've experienced, she's been like a something 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:10.599 that I've had that 13 years consecutive day in 00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:14.079 and day out like with so the regularity of her 00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:17.159 in my life versus people or aunts and uncles, 00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:19.199 this and cousin stuff like that. I'm definitely 00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:21.340 not trying to compare or anything. I guess maybe 00:34:21.340 --> 00:34:26.099 it's more of my first real solid like adult loss, 00:34:26.300 --> 00:34:29.300 you know, like last real big family death. An 00:34:29.300 --> 00:34:32.099 uncle of ours died eight years ago that I met 00:34:32.099 --> 00:34:34.400 maybe three times when I was like eight years 00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:37.800 old. And what connection there is really to get 00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:41.820 severed, right? At best, you don't get a chance 00:34:41.820 --> 00:34:45.460 to meet them again for a fourth time. And that 00:34:45.460 --> 00:34:48.780 is, okay, well, that's good. I'm glad. I asked 00:34:48.780 --> 00:34:51.780 that because I've had a bunch of conversations 00:34:51.780 --> 00:34:54.139 where people go, I don't understand why it hurts 00:34:54.139 --> 00:34:56.380 different, but I feel like you do. I feel like 00:34:56.380 --> 00:34:58.579 you understand why it hurts different, and that's 00:34:58.579 --> 00:35:02.199 why it's your first big adult loss. Now, I do 00:35:02.199 --> 00:35:05.480 say loss. There are other losses that happen 00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:08.820 as an adult, such as relationship status, work 00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:12.119 status. I mean, big losses make the five stages 00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:15.059 happen all over again in various differing degrees. 00:35:15.099 --> 00:35:19.019 Sometimes they happen in a flash. You go from 00:35:19.019 --> 00:35:21.940 bargaining to acceptance in 30 minutes because 00:35:21.940 --> 00:35:26.300 you realize why you lost what you lost. And I 00:35:26.300 --> 00:35:27.739 think there's also kind of a blessing that you 00:35:27.739 --> 00:35:30.239 have that we can kind of, you know what happened. 00:35:30.739 --> 00:35:32.920 You know, all of it makes sense biologically, 00:35:33.539 --> 00:35:37.420 timeline and everything. Again, that's a little 00:35:37.420 --> 00:35:39.539 bit of a blessing, man. Yeah, I'd say so too. 00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:42.599 I mean, in a way, you're right. It's a blessing 00:35:42.599 --> 00:35:44.519 that I might have to compare this or deal with. 00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:48.639 Judgment of all their huge losses like so I'm 00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:50.260 theoretically the next couple should be easier 00:35:50.260 --> 00:35:52.900 go into it with that mentality One of the things 00:35:52.900 --> 00:35:56.239 that I was going to ask is what do you look forward 00:35:56.239 --> 00:35:59.219 to? Do you look forward to anything now that 00:35:59.219 --> 00:36:03.019 this this vacuum has been created? Is there is 00:36:03.019 --> 00:36:05.219 there something that you want to do something 00:36:05.219 --> 00:36:09.059 that you think you want to try? I've always been 00:36:09.059 --> 00:36:11.559 Since I've had her if you about taking a long 00:36:11.559 --> 00:36:14.699 vacation as long stays away from her type of 00:36:14.699 --> 00:36:19.420 thing and then I guess now that I don't have 00:36:19.420 --> 00:36:23.000 to worry about her being here by herself or with 00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:24.760 the parents or whatever, just me not being around 00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:27.199 to make sure she's okay. I get to get a little 00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:30.519 more freedom to go travel a bit more now. I don't 00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:35.260 have to worry so much. You know, don't feel guilty 00:36:35.260 --> 00:36:38.000 thinking about that. It's really easy to do that. 00:36:38.500 --> 00:36:41.119 But there are two things kind of helping you 00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:43.059 along with that. If I were you, this is that 00:36:43.059 --> 00:36:47.099 I would be thinking about. One, she's a She wasn't 00:36:47.099 --> 00:36:50.320 sentient enough to know that when it's all said 00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:52.019 and done, you're going to go on a vacation without 00:36:52.019 --> 00:36:56.440 her. And two, doing things, doing positive things 00:36:56.440 --> 00:36:59.340 in the memory of something or someone that you've 00:36:59.340 --> 00:37:01.920 lost. I think that kind of helps along maybe 00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:05.139 getting you towards acceptance. I know I tell 00:37:05.139 --> 00:37:07.420 a lot of stories about myself in this too, but 00:37:07.420 --> 00:37:09.019 it's one of the ways that I relate with the person 00:37:09.019 --> 00:37:12.400 that I'm talking to. And after one of my biggest... 00:37:12.329 --> 00:37:15.429 non -death losses in my life, and that was the 00:37:15.429 --> 00:37:17.190 separation leading into the divorce of my first 00:37:17.190 --> 00:37:21.150 marriage. My brother went, pack your shit. You're 00:37:21.150 --> 00:37:23.510 coming to the West Coast for a vacation. You've 00:37:23.510 --> 00:37:26.030 never seen the West Coast. You're gonna go see 00:37:26.030 --> 00:37:27.869 it. And I was like, ugh. And he's like, I'm paying 00:37:27.869 --> 00:37:29.849 for it. And so if you don't come after I pay 00:37:29.849 --> 00:37:32.409 for it, I'm just gonna be pissed. And I was like, 00:37:32.849 --> 00:37:36.190 ugh. Same guy, same guy, by the way, that I played 00:37:36.190 --> 00:37:41.389 video games with. While I was there... I don't 00:37:41.389 --> 00:37:43.289 know if it was because he gave me something to 00:37:43.289 --> 00:37:45.449 worry about because the way he drives sometimes 00:37:45.449 --> 00:37:48.989 scares the shit out of me, or it was just something 00:37:48.989 --> 00:37:52.730 new. My brain was embracing something new in 00:37:52.730 --> 00:37:57.510 the midst of all that. Do it, man. Go on a vacation. 00:37:57.750 --> 00:38:00.730 In fact, go on a vacation, and if you want to, 00:38:00.789 --> 00:38:02.650 I would love to do a follow -up episode with 00:38:02.650 --> 00:38:06.369 you. Actually, I have a trip planned next month. 00:38:06.389 --> 00:38:09.909 I'm going out to Cleveland, Ohio. My best friend, 00:38:10.050 --> 00:38:12.909 my essential brother or another mother. He's 00:38:12.909 --> 00:38:15.889 getting married. Nice. So I want to be one of 00:38:15.889 --> 00:38:17.130 the crewmen who's been at his wedding and I'm 00:38:17.130 --> 00:38:20.730 excited for that. Dude, do it. Do it. Get lost 00:38:20.730 --> 00:38:23.070 out there for a couple of days. I really, your 00:38:23.070 --> 00:38:25.150 journey is not done and I hope nothing but the 00:38:25.150 --> 00:38:27.570 best for you in this journey. And seriously, 00:38:27.570 --> 00:38:29.510 if you want to do like a follow -up episode, 00:38:29.510 --> 00:38:31.329 like towards the end of the year, by all means, 00:38:31.429 --> 00:38:34.750 man, reach back out. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Is 00:38:34.750 --> 00:38:36.730 there anything that you want to plug, like a 00:38:36.730 --> 00:38:38.469 channel or anything, or are you just out there 00:38:38.469 --> 00:38:41.349 doing this? Sat here to exist most of all but 00:38:41.349 --> 00:38:44.150 uh two things on our show real quick. Yeah, please 00:38:44.150 --> 00:38:47.449 I did break bring cake out here with me. So she 00:38:47.449 --> 00:38:50.030 was also part of the podcast. I love that. Hello 00:38:50.030 --> 00:38:52.789 cake and I always sent you a bunch of photos 00:38:52.789 --> 00:38:56.610 of her from her life all that I'm gonna have 00:38:56.610 --> 00:38:58.329 some of I'm gonna have some of those on the screen. 00:38:58.349 --> 00:39:00.110 I'm just gonna let you know that oh, yeah, but 00:39:00.110 --> 00:39:03.269 my partner surprised me yesterday with a printout 00:39:03.269 --> 00:39:06.150 of Me and her on her last book. It's a pretty 00:39:06.150 --> 00:39:09.039 good clear John, that's lovely, man. That's great. 00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:13.059 I love the people in our life who care enough 00:39:13.059 --> 00:39:17.340 about us and the way that we feel to kind of 00:39:17.340 --> 00:39:20.679 help immortalize the way that we felt about our 00:39:20.679 --> 00:39:22.739 loved ones. That's great. Well, John, thank you 00:39:22.739 --> 00:39:25.360 so much for sharing, man. I really hope this 00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:29.000 gets you like on even further into the acceptance 00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:31.300 area. Let's keep in touch. I want to make sure 00:39:31.300 --> 00:39:34.840 that you know. I feel like our talk right now. 00:39:35.050 --> 00:39:38.909 I feel a lot better overall that your story's 00:39:38.909 --> 00:39:41.809 out there now. Thanks, man. I'm glad. I'm starting 00:39:41.809 --> 00:39:45.070 to feel a little bit better, but I'll definitely 00:39:45.070 --> 00:39:47.130 keep in touch and let you know when I finally 00:39:47.130 --> 00:39:49.909 get to that stage of acceptance. All right. Well, 00:39:49.909 --> 00:39:53.750 don't rush it, and can't wait to hear what your 00:39:53.750 --> 00:39:56.050 journey is going to be. John Engel, thank you 00:39:56.050 --> 00:39:59.329 so much for showing up, showing in, showing out 00:39:59.329 --> 00:40:01.329 your emotions, man. I really appreciate that. 00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:05.119 As always, I'm your host, Michael LeBlanc, and 00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:08.400 if you happen to miss next month's episode, still, 00:40:09.099 --> 00:40:12.000 it's your loss. Thanks so much, Sean. Of course. 00:40:12.059 --> 00:40:15.260 Thank you for having me. No problem. Bye -bye.