Hey there, welcome to the God's Goodness podcast.
We are your host, Josh and Shelly Hankins, and
we're here to share real stories of God's power,
stories of hope, healing, and miracles that will
strengthen your faith. No matter what you're
walking through, we want to remind you that God
is good and is still moving today. Let's dive
in. Welcome back to the God's Goodness Podcast.
Today we have an incredible couple with us and
you are going to be blessed by their story. We
know them from church and our church has hundreds
of people and we don't know everybody, but Pastor
Rick thought it was important for us to be introduced
because they have an incredible way of the way
God led them to each other and throughout their
lives together. And so he's, God's been working
through them and They just wanted to feature
their story on the podcast. So today we have
that special couple. It's Jen and Pat Mary. And
we're going to have them open us with an opening
prayer and then we'll get into their story. Father,
we just give this time to you. This is for your
glory and to just be a blessing to others to
impact your kingdom. In Jesus' name. Amen. Thank
you so much for being here. So I know you wanted
to start at about where you guys met like it
was a divine leading so which one of you wants
to start us off? I could start that. Patrick
and I met at South Hills Assembly over 30 years
ago and after attending for a time we started
to date and that's when God spoke to me at the
altar that Patrick was the one I was supposed
to marry. I was surprised. I was on my way to
work one day and I kept asking the Lord, are
you sure, are you sure that this is the man for
me? And as I was speaking to the Lord, I saw
a marquee at a restaurant saying, congratulations,
Jennifer and Patrick. It was a place, Peter's
place, that had marriage, you know, rehearsals,
dinners. So that was really... Wow. Okay, Lord.
That was an exact answer. I had a dream of being
in this wedding dress in my dressing room. This
all happened over a period of time, not one thing
after another. And wow, okay. I believe and I'll
hold on. Yeah, as Jennifer said, this is a year
and a half to two years in the making. Again,
Pastor Rick Cardell was very instrumental in
us getting together. I introduced myself to Jennifer
at South Hills Assembly, and she seemed like,
you know, how long have you been going here?
Just kind of a little distant. And I thought
we had a connection going by. But anyway, she'll
keep saying no to that. I was being mentored
at the time with Pastor Rick Cardell and I told
him about it and he said, well, when the time's
right, you know, Holy Spirit will lead you and
we'll, you know, introduce you guys and we'll
see what happens then. A month went by, two months,
three months. So we're about five months into
this and There's nothing going on, no connection,
no introduction. And I'm, you know, at a place
in my life where I needed to grow and Pastor
Rick was everything I was looking for. You know,
he was a guy that really had a heart for God,
didn't have, you know, a lot of things of the
world, wasn't interested in, you know, the worldly
culture, which is what I was looking for in a
man of God. And he was that person. So I trusted
his guidance. And one day after one of our classes,
me and Jennifer went, were in together. He gave
me the eye of it's okay, you know, just like
winked. So I went over and we started talking
and I asked her out and she said, that would
be a date. So that's where we, and he said, no,
it's not a date. It's just, so that's how we
got started. And the things that Jennifer mentioned,
happened as we dated for months, God confirmed,
which He does. You know, He allows us to step
into things, and as we step into those and follow
those, then things get confirmed more, which
is what He did, you know, in our relationship.
Now, did you ask her to marry you before she
saw the marquee? No. Or was she milling about,
like, am I wasting my time dating this guy? No.
You know, just going somewhere. I didn't ask
her. So you were mulling about it. I want to
know who knew first. Like, this is the one. So
who did God tell first? It was me. Okay. It was
way before. Okay. And there was months that passed
when I was searching because I didn't want to
make a mistake. It's like Brie and Luke. So Brie
was told before Pastor Luke was told. Oh yeah,
I knew ahead. Okay. So yeah, that was something
that I had to navigate through in my life. It's
going back 30. 31 years, that getting married
relationship. One of the things that we help
couples with today and over the years is blended
families. Because we're both coming from backgrounds
of marriages that didn't work out. And in this
system, the world system, there's a lot of that
going on. But we have had the opportunity to
be, we believe, put together, given a second
chance to do marriage, and God's been with us
the whole time. We look at divorce as something
we don't want to do, but it happens, unfortunately,
but it is something God forgives, which He did
for us and gave us a second chance. So we do
have a 30 -year experience with blended families.
So that's something that we've helped a lot of
couples with. But as we got started at the time,
30 years ago, we did not know what that was going
to look like. But we kept moving forward with
that. And eventually, we got married after two
and a half years of dating. And then we started
ministry. It was what you would expect. You're
already doing prison ministry. You got a lot
of good things doing that together. We did that
before we got married at the Allegheny County
Jail. Lot of God things happening there. That
sounds like a very pastor Rick kind of calling.
Yeah Yeah, he headed up he headed that up and
you know these things that we got involved with
you know He was a part of and then that you know
kept going but also youth ministry We were helping
because we had teenagers its time with the youth
ministry at that time I just realized we had
two pastors on the show that have been in jail
So it's just funny pastor Rick and pastor buckles
well pastor You know, Justin Buckles. Yeah, so
that's fun. So it doesn't matter if you've been
to jail, God will use you anyway. Yeah. But okay,
Jennifer, do you want to add to that? So we were
married four years and this is when doing these
ministries, we started getting some direction
and words from God to go to Oral Roberts University.
Okay. And this is where, you know, telling the
audience direction, getting direction from God.
Jennifer got more direction getting married and
seeing things and confirming things. Now we're
getting ready to go to Tulsa, Oklahoma. And we,
you know, for anybody, okay, you're married four
years, good jobs, and you're going to leave all
that to go to Bible college. So that's where,
you know, we really needed God's direction. So
taking bold steps, you know, to do that. Do you
want to talk about your Bible study? Sure. Again,
for some of us, I really needed a lot of clarification
from the Lord. This meant picking up and leaving
our families, but our yes was on the table. I
just was going to this Bible study, the usual
Bible study, and... I said, before we went, I
prayed, I said, Lord, I want to see this in your
word. I don't know why I would ask him that.
But when I got there, there was a white box on
the table all yellow around from 1989. And this
lady came that I never met. She was new. And
she was a Peters Township teacher that found
this box in her garage that she'd forgotten about
from a student that used to go there and he wrote
a little note that said, we need to get God back
in the schools. And she goes, take a look at
this. And she opened it. And as she did, I had
to keep my amazement to myself because we agreed
not to tell anybody about what God was doing
in our lives at that time. It was an ORU study
Bible. I mean, like... So that did it for me.
She said oh you stop seem like you really like
it I said I do she said I think this is for you
So I took it home and put it on the dining room
table as we're eating dinner and I said look
at what's in that box I Love when he does stuff
amazing. I like to know that I know And he knows
that you like to know that you know, I do and
we believe he does want you to know, you know,
it's just as we talk further, the relationship
you're in with Him, the connection, the intimacy
that you have with the Lord. You know, I was
reading this morning in John 15, it says, abide,
verse 4, abide in me. You know, that word means
to stay, to dwell, and you know, that's where
we get more direction and more insight. But the
other thing, because we, this is like the unbelievable
thing about it, there's So I was in sales and
working. I didn't finish college and I had 72
credits from Kent State Pitt in South Carolina.
And I was just praying. I was gonna go back to
school at Pitt and get into counseling. And we
were praying about it and this started coming
up to go to Oral Roberts University. And so we
prayed and we agreed that if I would go as a
junior, this is 25 years later. These credits
are 25 years old. So I went to these schools
and sent my credits in, and we agreed that if
I would go in as a junior, that that was an open
door. Well, 61 credits transferred in each 60
to be a junior. So that was another green light
for us to keep moving forward. And then we prayed
about going down to visit. And that was something
that opened up. And nobody knew except Pastor
Rick. at the time. So, and he was so excited
for us. He just felt like that's where God was
leading. So he was agreeing with us as we kept
searching the Lord and praying about it. So the
next thing was, if you want to talk about that.
How did we know it was time to go, you ask. Although
no one knew yet, we were involved with the youth
and one of the pastors asked us, hey. Would you
like to bring a van of used that want to check
out ORU when they graduate? They wanted to know
what it was like and we said sure. So we took
a van full of kids down. Wow. To ORU and in that
time Pat got to meet with the counselor there.
Huh. Yeah we got to look around and it was amazing.
I mean only God could think this up. Wow. Yeah.
I mean, it seems like you had a lot of reinforcement
about this school. You guys both had jobs at
the time. And how scary was that to walk away
from known into an unknown situation? No job,
states away, no family. I'm assuming you didn't
have family in Oklahoma. No. You had nothing,
no support. No. Whatsoever, except God himself.
Yeah, we had his work. How intensely, like, was
there any fear that crept up here and there?
Were there worry, doubt? No. I didn't have any.
You got Mrs. White Box with you or you got your
answer. Yeah. That's a good question. Anybody
feeling a nudge or leading, God answers all that.
He wants you to know and feel comfortable with
the direction you're taking. Isaiah says you
will go out with joy and be led by peace. So
these confirmations, you know, I wouldn't tell
anybody to, you know, pull up stakes, quit your
job, and go to a Bible college unless the Holy
Spirit, you knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that's
where the Holy Spirit's leading. Which is, you
know, I was 40 years old at the time, and we're
getting this direction, and yeah, okay, we're
making good money, and we can relax, you know,
just live life. But we had to call, so we answered
it, and that means, yeah, we quit our jobs. And
we didn't know where we were going to live. We
didn't know anything about school. How was I
going to do? And I had another incident, you
know, on our way down to visit ORU the first
time we stopped at a truck stop. You know, I'm
thinking, you know what? I'm too old for this.
You know, this is too hard. And we were at the
truck stop and this old lady's walking around
with this big Jesus pin on. 92. Yeah, she's 92
years old. And she said, you know, I just try
to encourage people and make them happy. And
she's passing out tracks. And I'm sitting there
thinking, you know, well, I'm too old to go down
there. And so God just, you know, shook me a
little bit there. He's like, you're just getting
started. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Because
the trip, when we got there, it was very, very
busy. He said you're 52 years younger than you
could be to go. Yeah. Right. Right. Exactly.
Very good. Yeah. At the time, Pat didn't have
a job yet. I knew it would happen because God
said we were supposed to be there. He always
provides and gives grace and favor to provide
everything for you. You know, when you put your
yes on the table. I had a job eight weeks before
we went. Oh, wow. Why? I don't know, but I had
a... I tried a salon. That's what I used to do.
This one salon and everything was... Yes, yes,
yes. So did you find a place to live before you
moved there or you just like kind of rented a
place or like how did that work out? We looked
at a few places when we got there, right? Yeah,
but we didn't find a place. Jessica was a senior
in high school and we wanted to get a place for
her to go to school and where she could walk
there. So it was a real nice high school, one
of the best. Tulsa at the time. So we got an
apartment right near there. That was our guiding
light for the apartment, somewhere where she
could go to school. But God worked that out too.
She was a senior and she was all ready to go.
And she ended up going to Oral Roberts as well,
after she graduated. And we had the blessing
of her and I having a couple classes together.
Yeah, and they walked together too. They didn't
plan it. Everything just... Gives me chills.
Yeah, I used to make a joke about it and say
that because you know We there was about 50 or
so of us my age going though Are you because
about 5 ,000 student are all you know generally?
18 to 22 and You know I used to make a joke about
it. So you know my daughter goes here, and I
don't mind It's kind of reversing that you know
I remember when we were down there And you know
God's Word says humility comes before honor And
I'm thinking, man, it was this big calling, you
know, God calling. It was like, as we mentioned,
just concrete. And it was exciting. And I just
kind of wonder what he's got for us down there.
So I started working for the state of Oklahoma
night shift for a emergency shelter for abused
kids. And when you worked a night shift, at least
this was my job, All these people that came in,
they came in from homes that were just horrific
things going on and some stories that are really
sad and break your heart. So I'm there and I'm
doing my job and I'm looking out the window,
it's about three in the morning and I'm like,
God, I think I've missed you. What am I doing
here? So I'm doing the wash of these kids. That's
what I was doing, washing their clothes. And
I felt like, you know, that I should be speaking
into people's lives, I should be counseling on
something, and here I am washing clothes, and
God almost spoke to me, but he really impressed
on my heart. And he said, these are my kids,
and you need to take care of them. So it like
straightened me right up. Oh yeah, yeah, no,
I could see that coming. Yeah. You are doing
his work. When you do it to the least of these,
you're doing it to him. Amen. Right from his
own lips, you know? Yeah, so it was a moving
experience, life -changing for me. And of course,
we have a whole bunch of those. Honey, would
you like to pick up from there? Well, the next
job for me, I said I'd never do. Ah, oh boy.
I worked in a, what is the name of that shelter
again? It was so long ago. Laura Dester shelter.
I said I would never work in a place like that.
And then there was an opening. I guess I was
done with hair right then. It's a long time ago.
So yeah, what an eye opener. My first day, I
had to wash, give a bath to a little boy who
was about seven and he had bruises on him. on
his behind and he was saying that his daddy you
know heard him I was like I was devastated inside
I just thought can I do this Lord yeah so and
I saw I was a uh like a house mother for these
little ones getting their food ready, helping
them get ready for school. They would ask if
they could go home with me. I just, it did something
to my heart. Yeah. And it did something to theirs
too. I hope so. They learned what safety was
like. They learned what love was supposed to
look like. You have no idea how much you touch
those kids. I'm telling you now. They needed
that. They needed it in a way that you cannot
fathom that God put you in a place to help those
kids. And he said, you know, to heck with your
discomfort, you're going to help my kids. Yeah.
Yeah. So you got over it and they healed a little
bit because of it. You know, so praise God for
you and that that is a very difficult situation
to be in. Well, he used it for his his glory
to love love through me. So. Yeah. So, so God's
preparing us for what's next. And we graduated
from Moria, but before that, I'll, this is a
quick story there, because I wanted to take a
class which would allow me to graduate early.
But you needed a prerequisite to graduate, to
take the class. And I was talking to the dean
of the counseling department, and you know, he
said, Because he let me take a class without
a prerequisite. I thought this would be a shoe
in. And what happened was, he says, you know
what? This isn't going to be that easy. I don't
know if this teacher is going to let you do that.
So I went to her and talked to her. And I said,
look, if I take this, I'll have this done. And
then I'll be able to graduate a year early. I
know this has got to be a God thing. And she
said, oh, I'm sorry. I can't let you do that
without a prerequisite. I was devastated. I was
mad for about a day and a half, and I'm, okay,
God, I know you open doors that no man can shut,
you shut doors that no man can open, and I know
you got something here. I don't know what it
is, because I was making plans. to take a job
in Oklahoma, Tulsa, and it was similar to Little
Art Duster. So it was just being planned out
and, you know, it was all being set up and that
door shut. So if I would have done that, what
happened almost nine months later, we get a call
from Pastor Jack Stepp and they're interested
in doing a counseling center, which is what I
was studying. at ORU, and that's how that got
started. And we came back, graduated, and started
Compassion Connection Counseling Center in 2005
after I graduated. And with that, the takeaway
of five years of doing that is starting with
three people the first week of counseling. And
then when we left, there was at least 60 plus
people coming in every week. You know, we had
interns, made a lot of connections with the colleges,
and we also had some part -time therapists. And
again, the bigger takeaway is speaking into people's
lives, seeing marriages get healed, seeing depression,
anxiety, people having a place to go and believe,
because it was faith -based Christian counseling.
And that's what I've done for the last 20 years.
And I won't do anything else but that because
And I call it my scope of practice. Did it cover
everything? You mentioned what marriage is, but
you also mentioned depression and anxiety. Yeah,
mental health. So you just, across the board,
whatever it is you guys had, or they had, or
anyone had, you would be willing to step into
the name of Christ with a counseling that was
Christ -centered. Yeah, absolutely Christ -centered.
Of course, it's all homegrown. I've had issues
in the past 30 years ago plus with alcohol and
then I've had depression. But the Lord has delivered
me and I've overcome all that with the power
of the Holy Spirit and His Word. I can say that
to everybody, which I do. One of my favorite
scriptures, 2 Corinthians 10, verse 4 and 5,
the weapons of our warfare are mighty through
God pulling down strongholds. casting down imaginations
and taking every thought gap to pity, pity, and
to Christ. So as a therapist and, you know, cognitive
therapy, just a bunch of fancy words there that
psychologists use, but it's really your thinking.
You know, what am I thinking here? You know,
God's a spirit. You know, that's what's the main
thing. What, you know, you're thinking. So we
talk a lot about that and helped a lot of people.
Me and Jennifer, early on, you know, did marriage
counseling together. And as time went on, then
from there, you know, went into private practice.
And you want to maybe talk about Colorado a little
bit, because that happened while we were at Oral
Roberts University. And maybe a little bit about
Pawnee and Jerry. Oh, we had some friends. We
were on the prayer team in Tulsa and still friends
with them today. And meeting Bonnie, she told
us about a place called Coffee and Council. And
it was just a little cabin in Colorado where
ministers or people in ministry could go rest
for a week, maybe a few days. And we could stay
there free, you know. I'm pretty sure we gave
a little offering there, but we went and we loved
it. It was so quiet and so beautiful. And when
we left, it seems like to me, we took a piece
of it with us. And then we met Joanne. And then
we, oh, that's right. While we were staying at
the cabin at that first time, there was a little
cabin up here. And we walked over, you know,
we met her. Her name was Joanne. She's in heaven
now, and she had a little dog. And you want to
take over? Yeah, so here we are. First time in
Colorado, we're 10 ,000 feet in the mountains.
Yeah. I mean, it's breathtaking. And there was
one cabin right next to this one, ladies out
in the yard, and we're talking. And she said,
well, where are you from? I said, I'm from Pennsylvania.
Oh, I'm originally from Pennsylvania, really.
And then I told her the town, Washington, Pennsylvania.
And you're kidding. That's where I'm from. So
here we are, 10 ,000 feet in the mountains. She's
been living there 40 years and this is our first
time there and God put us together so right away
the antennas go up and you're like, okay God,
what's going on here? What's the direction? Does
she know Jesus? You know, that's the first thing
we think of and she did and you know, we've prayed
with her and got to know her really well over
the years. But eventually, you know, we went
back to Pennsylvania and the decounseling center,
and we were praying into that, you know, for
almost 10 years. Colorado. Yeah, before, to Colorado,
yeah, before the door opened up. And then we
went out there to the work, the Denver Rescue
Mission, which, and we bought a house, which
we felt the Lord leading us there. About two
miles away from where Joanne lived. So yeah,
we lived at 9 ,000 feet in the mountains I know
people like you're kidding now. We weren't getting
off the grid. This was all God, you know leading
us there and Working at the Denver rescue mission
was just a high level Of the Holy Spirit doing
things every single day that I was there Whether
it's discipling bringing people into the kingdom
praying for healing just a lot of incredible
experiences there And even before we settled
down there, it just seems like we heard people
over here in this restaurant or that in Pittsburgh
and Colorado, we just kept hearing Bailey, Bailey,
Bailey. And this is where that woman lived and
where we were staying for that week. And then,
I know this is unusual, but God sometimes shows
you things over and over to get your attention,
right? We got to a point in these 10 years, like,
do you want us to go or what's taking so long?
Should we just forget? Forget about it. No, he
wanted us to go. We were just getting prepared.
It would seem as if people were flocking to Pittsburgh
from Colorado. We saw license plates, I mean
everywhere. Even in our apartment windows, somebody
just parked right there and like, oh my goodness,
we thought we're going to buy a house here. But
it just didn't work out. Didn't work out. I know
you're thinking of something. Well, I was thinking
about the one house. I knew it. We were going
to buy it. And I was like, that's it. I'm going
to put a bid on. And Jennifer felt led to call
me. And I'm sitting in front of the house, picturing
what it's going to look like. And this is actually
on the road I grew up in Washington County. And
she said, hey, I just felt like, what are you
doing? So I'm looking at the house. I just want
to see what all we can do with it. And I'm sitting
there talking to her out on a remote road in
Washington County. And I look in a rear view
mirror. And his Colorado license plate is right
behind me. They pull right up behind him, and
it's like, uh -uh, it's not here. I say, you're
not going to believe this. He paused. I'm like,
what's going on? But I was still being stubborn.
I said, I'm still buying the house. So then we
did. I went to bid on the house, and somebody
bought it like the day before. The soda door
shut. I'm like, OK. You know, so. We kept looking
and looking. We couldn't find anything. And then
we would go to Colorado and move. And we found
a house the second day we were there, and closed
on it in 30 days. True. But the year before that,
we were looking at houses in Colorado. Remember?
Yeah. And I saw that house, and I went, that's
interesting. I wonder where that is. And here,
like Pat said, it was near Joanne's house, only
about two miles. But it stayed empty. for a few
years and the first day we went to look at houses
there with a realtor it was like oh that's beautiful
you want in a different house okay i liked it
and then she came in the office after we saw
it she said i'm sorry i didn't know somebody
already put a bin on it and i'm like and the
next morning we woke up that other house they
must have took it off the market for a while
came up i said this is that same house i looked
at so when we were going to look at it remember
right in the middle of the National Forest. Yeah,
it was a God thing. Oh my gosh, we walked up
the steps and saw three mountains from our living
room and that was it. We were ruined. Oh yeah.
I said this is it. And the takeaway is okay,
it's the house, but you know, God allowed us
to live. In the mountains and you know work the
Denver rescue mission where he was doing a lot
of things every day and You know Jennifer spent
a lot of quiet time. You know you get close to
Jesus in prayer So what would you like to even
before that we were our lease was coming up while
we were still living here And one day we got
a letter in the mail saying, you're not allowed
to have a dog here. We lived there for five and
a half years and they said we're allowed to have
a dog. It was gone. And we were praying. We're
like, oh my gosh, where are we going to go? What
are we going to do with our dog? We love our
dog. We have this family. And it hit me. He's
kicking us out. It's time. And then I heard when
we were at the sofa, I'm getting chills remembering
it. Are you ready for a whirlwind? What? And
we were, even though we were looking for another
place, and then you had, I don't know how you
did it, but in that space of time, you put an
app in, Application for Denver Rescue Mission,
and he did a Skype interview, and as long as
it took for this to happen, boom, boom, boom,
it was very fast after that. It's like standing
at the top of a water slide and you're scared
to go down and finally he kicks your feet out
from underneath and you have a wild ride down.
We didn't stay but we didn't know where we were
going to go and then we knew that was part of
it. The gentle encouraging wasn't working so
he had to do it. He rolled his sleeves up and
said, all right. Maybe you didn't hear me when
I said I need you to go here. No, we just didn't.
Every time we would go out to make sure it just
didn't seem there yet. Yeah. We were willing.
And that's the thing with waiting on God is,
you know, His timing. Yeah, it's not easy to
wait. It's not yes, it's yes, no, or not right
now. Yeah. And that's been our experience over
the last 30 years together. So 30 years in whirlwind
of disappearing from Pennsylvania to go to college
in Oklahoma. With the weird weather that they
have there, you know, from hail to scorching
to tornadoes, like just changes every minute,
every day, just something new. To coming back
here and then going to Denver, or near Denver.
What miracles did you guys see in these 30 years
of ministry and counseling? I mean, other than
what you just shared, what are some of the ones
that stick out of your head like, wow? Do you
want to go first? No, you can go. One of the
things, okay, when I was in Denver, this was
so incredible, and you want to see it all the
time. And we were on a prayer team in our church,
and they were visiting a church that had a priest.
It was Catholic, but he was Spirit -filled. I've
never experienced anything like this, but there
were people there that needed prayed for and
I remember a guy with a broken arm and I prayed
for him and he got healed. And then there was
a guy that was limping and prayed for him and
he got healed. So this was an annoying thing
that this place had and it just opened my eyes
more. to how, okay, it's not cookie cutter, it's
really God moving in places where people have
faith, but they don't really know Him that well
yet. And that's where this place was. And there
was another time where God was ministering to
the homeless, and this is just an incredible
thing of how God shows us that He cares for everybody.
And he gave me the guy's name, and I kept saying
the guy's name. God wants to bless Tom. And it
was like silence. Nobody was coming up, and we
talked a little bit more. I just kept getting
it. And I said it again. God wants to bless you.
So finally, this guy kind of just hunched over,
came up. Older gentleman African -American and
he and I just started praying with him. His name
was Tom and you know, they live homeless and
you know, they You know, we all know they don't
their hygiene is not the best and So that was
evident but it was just amazing how you could
feel God's love for this gentleman And it was
a word that God gave me, you know for him to
encourage him. So that was another experience.
And then Jennifer, we prayed for a few people
there. And she can tell you about that, that
we're not having children. Yeah, I got opportunity
always at my jobs to somehow get divine appointments.
Well, because I want them, I guess. I want to
make a difference. And it seems like I was on
a roll with people that wanted to get pregnant
but couldn't. And this one girl at a hairdressing
place, we went out back and we were talking.
She goes, I just want a baby. I said, well, let's
pray. You want to pray? Yeah. And I prayed for
her to get pregnant. Simple prayer. That's a
desire of her heart. Not a believer yet. And
she said, what was that? She felt his presence.
That was the first step. And then, I don't know,
it was a month later. She had called the salon
and wanted to talk to me. She said, you'd never
guess. I said, you're pregnant. Yep. And then
even our daughter -in -law, they were here visiting.
They're in Oklahoma. Where were we? We were at
a little coffee shop. Yeah, just so they know.
Josh ended up moving there and staying when we
moved. Yeah. He wasn't there yet. And he met
his wife. They'd been married, what, 15, 16 years.
Yeah, somewhere along those lines. And we were
in a coffee shop. Me and April were waiting for
the guys to get our coffee. She said, just want
us to have children. I said, do you want to pray?
Just a couple seconds. He had our granddaughter,
Lily. That's awesome. And then there was another
one that I don't remember that much about, but
she got pregnant too, and I thought... That was
one of the interns. Huh? Oh, it was the intern.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. It was a long time
ago. Well, 30 years of doing this, I would imagine.
But we're not done yet, you know, but that's
where he had us in those places. You just had
a recent experience. That's right. You know how
you're just going grocery shopping. And this
lady, we just seemed to intersect in the aisle.
And I said, hello. And hello. And we started
talking. And I could tell she's a new believer,
a new believer. And we got to talking. And she
said, how do you know when God's directing you?
What's his direction? And I just spoke a little
about some of the things, you know, that we've
been through. Ask him, be attentive. And he'll
show you. And she was just... I was blessed by
just having that. And other little things like
that. Divine appointments. They're special. They
may seem small, but it can alter a whole person's
life. I feel that my whole life is just divine
appointments as well. I love that. I love that.
Where are they? Where are they? I don't go looking
for anybody. God puts them to me every single
time. Exactly. Right in your path. Every single
time. I was just actually mentioning it to Shelly
earlier today. Well, I was talking about a guy
that I run into at Cheats that singled me out
because I was in uniform and I'm in EMT and he
shared that he was in EMT 30 years ago. and that
he had killed somebody and quit. And I was like,
man, that's horrible. And then he kept talking
to me, and I was like, oh man, I don't know if
I have time to talk to you. Does he give me his
whole life stories? I just wanted to go away.
I'm kind of an introvert, so I don't like to
have a lot of conversation with people. And then
he shared what had happened, and I was like,
that's not your fault. And so I started pouring
life into him and saying, look, dude, that...
If you had a surgeon right there that couldn't
have saved this man, how do you think you killed
him? That's not you. You need to get rid of this.
You need to not hold onto this. He absolutely
did. Yeah. And my partner, he had gone. I don't
know, he just saw a little vapor trail. He was
in the cartoons because he wasn't about to talk.
And I was like, well, come on. I'm all alone
here. And I'm glad because it was only meant
for me. And so, yeah, that's the only way I live
is God has to hand them to me. Here, I got one
for you. Here, I got one for you. Here, I got
one for you. Yeah. And I totally respect his
method on that. because he gears it towards people
like us. He gears it to people that want to help
people, that when they hear the right thing,
they're like, oh, hold on. As Pat said earlier,
the radar went up. I was just going to say, the
antennas are going, oh, OK, OK. Hold on, something's
going on. This is it. And so I really appreciate
those moments. I appreciate that God does that.
Because it's more evidence that He is with us.
It isn't just like, well, you have a faceless
God. He doesn't talk to you. My God doesn't stop
talking to me. Yeah, that's the part that, you
know, a lot of people do cry out to God when
they're alone. And that's what we have. We have
God. We have Jesus. And that's why we connect,
because they come and tell us, like you, Josh,
their whole story. Because we have God in us
and they feel open and led to do that. Yeah,
and we have the answer You know the answer is
Jesus and he can turn everything around for you
which he does a couple weeks ago, we Helped some
friends of ours at a Dairy Queen. They were serving
breakfast. It was an outreach free breakfast
for everybody I had the blessing people drove
through and they could get a couple pancake sausage
and whatever there was like over 300 people that
came through there. But we had the blessing of
praying for people and I was just amazed. The
people in their cars come up, you need prayer.
Just weeping, crying, yes, I need that, losing
loved ones, suicide, just break up. There's just
a lot of hurting people out there. And I believe,
like Josh and Jen are talking about here, Divine
appointments are available. God wants us to be
ready just to be in the moment, but they will
be available everywhere you go. God wants to
use you, speak life, and walk in the power of
the Holy Spirit. Couldn't agree more. Yeah, I
mean, when you see someone far away crying in
their car, a normal person doesn't just walk
up to them, right? But someone filled to the
Holy Spirit. that has compassion that says this
is not right this is this i need to say something
i need to see if this person's okay that's the
holy spirit moving if they don't believe in god
and they have that that's the holy spirit moving
them because they're going to believe in him
eventually right because he knows and so i just
i love that i love that so much when he does
that amen what a ride that you guys have been
on yeah and then when you get those little experiences,
they just energize you and make you want to have
more encounters and do it again. And you're like,
do it again, God, just show off and show us how
good it can get. And it's just encouraging. And
I hope others can be encouraged to step out because
if you're put in an experience, like a situation
like my husband, just go with it because God
can use you in any place he puts you. So you
just have to be willing. Right. Yeah, if you're
willing and obedient, just go with it. It could
be the biggest adventure of your life. For sure.
Wow. I hope that doesn't frighten anybody who
doesn't like adventures. Yeah. Yeah, we wonder
what's next sometimes. So, go ahead. All right,
so I was going to, you know, some of our listeners
are probably seeking clarity and direction that
you guys clearly have. What advice would you
give to someone who feels unsure about their
next step? Sit at his feet. Take time to be quiet
and be attentive to his voice, to Holy Spirit.
Don't forget your spiritual disciplines. Prayer,
get in the Word, meditate on the Word, and pay
attention. Keep your ear to the ground. He'll
respond to that. Oh, absolutely. Like Mary. The
problem today, people are too busy. And it's
easy to be busy. There's so many opportunities
to be, but we need to keep our priorities straight.
Okay, so when God speaks to us, I mean, what's
a practical way to discern that that is the voice
of God, right? We know that we can check it with
the Bible, right? But like, when we hear that
initial voice, how do we discern God's voice?
He'd get used to hearing it. You know, he said
my side know my voice It is relational if you're
not reading your guys gonna speak to you like
we all know more out of his word I mean we get
the opportunity To sit down with the author every
time I read the Bible. So that's right. He's
gonna go with that but like the other day I heard
you know, call your cousin and I had some business
to do with him. I knew that was God Because I,
you know, just let it go and I needed to do it.
And so just that little thing. Because, you know,
I've been witnessing to him and talking to him
and trusting God with his life. So you want to
keep that connection going and, you know, keep
favor in unbelievers' lives. So, you know, they'll
keep trusting you with what you're saying. But
that was just a practical thing that I needed
to do, but I knew it was God -impressing. And
we try to do that every day, you know, just,
okay, if I'm, and I did this, I need to go to
Home Depot. And I didn't want to do it then,
but I really got impressed by the Lord to do
it. And soon as I walk in, there he is, the guy
that God wants me to talk to. And I knew it.
And we did, we had a long conversation. I've
witnessed to him before. And he's getting, you
know, his... medical issues going on or getting
a little worse. So we prayed for him and, you
know, he's just having a hard time trusting God.
But the point was that God impressed my heart
to go to Home Depot. I know I needed to get something,
but yet there was a bigger deal there besides
me needing to get something but to talk to this
guy. And we don't know. We're planting seeds.
We're watering. God gives you increase. It can
really be something as simple as stop what you're
doing and pray for your husband now. What? Okay,
okay, now. I prayed, you called, and I asked
what mountain were you on at that time? Where
were you? Yeah, we were in a dangerous spot.
Climbing Maroon Bell, me and a really good friend.
He was a chaplain. And then his friend was with
us, too. And I've climbed a lot of 14ers in Colorado,
never had any issues. This was the first time
that I was climbing this mountain. We got off
trail, and the first time I thought, I'm way
over my head here. And I thought we were going
to fall off the mountain. It was just five inches
of a cliff. And God literally stopped. Yeah,
so Jennifer prayed for us when we were going
through. I had no idea. But it's just things
like that just think your marriage could have
ended if you didn't do it. Yeah Yeah, you can't
just say well. Yeah, no do it later. Do it now.
That's obedience delayed obedience. It's not
really obedience Mm -hmm. Yeah, you know one
last thing is you guys? Called the goodness of
God. Mm -hmm, and this is where the enemy's biggest
lie God isn't good Oh, he's sold. From the very
beginning, right? Right. God's, you know, He's
holding out on you. That is such a lie. But this
is where, and I talk to people every week, but
they don't believe, I don't think God loves them.
And that's where this thing goes sideways too
much, or they don't read, or they don't get to
know Him. because they don't believe. And that
was one of the things I had to overcome years
ago, you know, just basing on your earthly father
and, you know, yeah, God loves you, but, you
know, you got to work hard at it. And if you
do something wrong, he's going to hit you over
the head. And then I've gotten to know God over
the last 30 years. That's not who he is. You
know, it says he is love and he is. And when
we fall in love with him, which I did, it makes
it so much easier. to read your Bible, to spend
time with him, because you're in love with him.
I think the biggest problem that we have in today's
society isn't we deflect and we say that I don't
feel God's love, but the real reality is you
can't love your neighbor like you love yourself
because they don't love themselves. That's true.
And the biggest problem we have is we live in
a society that is self -centered, egocentric.
and people do not love themselves. It is very
hard to reach a loving God if you don't know
what love is because you haven't experienced
it in your own life because you don't say it
to yourself. There you go. I mean, it's hard
to reach out to your neighbor. Look at the political
climate. Don't care what side of the fence you're
on, extremists on your side, that just bash each
other. There is zero love. Zero love. And that's
what we need. And I really appreciate you guys,
especially in your counseling and missions. where
you're helping homeless, where you're helping
addicts, you're helping marriages, you're helping
people that have mental instabilities for whatever
reason, you know, from past traumas, from the
enemy attacking their life. You guys have shown
and demonstrated God's love towards a multitude
of people, and that is something you can hang
your hat on. And it's something that you probably
don't because you give all glory to God. And
that's an amazing, amazing thing. And I really
appreciate having you guys on today and telling
us your story because that is, I think is something
very important for everyone to hear. that God
is still talking to us, that it is possible for
us to listen to Him. You are worth His love.
You're worth your own love. And it doesn't matter
what you've done, right? We all sin and fall
short of the glory of God, right? That while
we were still sinning, He sent His only Son for
us. Not because He said, hey, man, you cleaned
yourself up. Here's my son. Not that at all,
right? And I appreciate the work you guys put
in. I appreciate you listening to God and then
giving hope to our listeners that too can act.
God's word that they too can wait for him and
they too can get confirmation To do the things
that need to be done. Even if it seems scary
that he will not let you drown He will not let
you be submerged in that fear that he will take
care of you And I think you guys are a tremendous
blessing and I appreciate having you on Well,
Josh and Shelly Jennifer and I are very Honored
and humbled to be here. So thank you for having
us Thank you for having us for coming share our
story Before we wrap this up, would you pray
over our listeners seeking direction and next
steps? Sure Father we thank you for Jesus and
you said in your word The Holy Spirit will guide
us into all truth and we rest in that we believe
that we trust that and we Pray that over this
home with Shelly and Josh and we pray that over
our audience that they can trust you and know
that the Holy Spirit will guide them wherever
they need to go. The right place, the right time,
doing the right thing with the right people.
You want to do that for them. And we just pray
that over this audience that they would be blessed
with that direction and that they would come
to know you better and just keep reaching out
to you because we know that you're always going
to be there for them and you want a close relationship
with them. And we pray all this in Jesus' name.
Amen. Your heartfelt feedback always reminds
us why we do this. Until next time, remember,
God is always working, miracles are real, and
your breakthrough could be just around the corner.
Keep believing, keep expecting, and don't forget
to share this with someone who needs hope today.
We'll talk to you next week.