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Welcome to the God's Goodness podcast, where our mission is to encourage as well as highlight

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God's Goodness and modern-day miracles.

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We are your hosts, Josh and Shelly Hankins.

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Today we have with us a special guest, and he is, I guess you could say he was instrumental

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in this podcast because it was conversation I had with him the day before I got this idea,

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and it was just downloaded by the Holy Spirit.

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But the conversation with him the day before was asking like, what am I good at?

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What do I like to do?

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And the Holy Spirit the next morning, he was like, hey, you like to talk to people, so

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why don't you talk to others about me and share it with the world?

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So it's only fitting that I have Ian Wreeth with us today, and he's going to open us

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with a little prayer, and then we'll get things going.

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Thank you so much, Shelly, for being here.

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It's really cool to see this idea come to life as well.

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It's really special, and I just, I pray that your listeners would be blessed.

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I pray that God would be glorified in this conversation.

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That's kind of my heart for the prayer as well.

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Father, Heavenly Father, I just, I dedicate this time to you, Lord, may every word that

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is spoken only reflect your truth and your heart.

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If you're listening to this, I pray that if you don't currently know Jesus has yet to

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break into your heart, I pray that you would open your ears and open your heart and still

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your mind and just listen because he is knocking at the door, and if you will open yourself

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to him, he will reveal himself to you.

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And that's what's so beautiful about our faith is it's a revealed faith.

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It is the truth revealed by the person of Christ.

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So I just say thank you.

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Shelly, I thank you, Josh.

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I thank you to be a part of the God's Goodness podcast, and I pray that many miracles will

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be revealed on this show.

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So thank you.

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Amen.

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Amen.

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Thank you.

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So we'll let you start things off.

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Yeah.

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I should start by saying why I'm here and why I exist, and it's truly to speak the truth

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and love so that all might come to discover and know the God who created them, Jesus Christ,

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his Son, whom he sent, and themselves in the process.

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And it's, that's kind of the through line of my life.

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I guess I'd just start by giving some background.

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I mean, I, you know, I said, grew up, my mom was married twice, divorced twice on the oldest

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of three brothers.

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So I carry that burden and that bag of being the oldest.

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You know, I just always want to lead them well, always want to be an example for them

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to follow.

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But you know what?

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Even since very young, being brought up in a Catholic-ish environment, we were kind of

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nominally Catholic.

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You know, we went to service, we attended during holidays and things like that.

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I went through catechism, went through, I assume education, some classes and things,

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and Holy Communion was never confirmed, the irony.

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So it's been an interesting ride.

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But I remember being in my first grade classroom and the teacher was like, okay, everybody get

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a sheet of paper, get a pencil.

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We're going to write about what we're going to be when we grow up and everybody's all

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excited and I hear people being celebrated for, oh, you know, Lisa's going to be a doctor

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and Jeremy wants to be a police officer.

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And I just, I was kind of just taking it all in.

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And I just remember thinking to myself, you know, I don't really resonate with any of

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the molds, you know, any of these, any of these kind of standard issue career paths

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and becoming paths.

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And I took my sheet of paper and very matter of fact that I wrote, you know, I want to

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discover the truth in all things and achieve balance in my life.

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And I just set my pencil down.

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And that was the first grader.

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As a first grader.

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Yeah.

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So, you know, teachers coming around and picking up our sheets of paper and reading them and

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celebrating and then she comes to me and she picks it up.

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And when the very odd look on her face, she kind of reads it silently to herself, looks

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at me with the look of concern and goes, oh, okay.

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And you know, wow, that's really interesting.

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And set it down and that was it.

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It was weird because I thought, wow, I mean, I thought that sounded pretty good, you know,

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and that was just speaking from the heart at that moment and it wasn't received very

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well.

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And so kind of foreshadowing because I felt misunderstood.

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I felt odd most of my life.

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I really had a hard time kind of finding my way.

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And I think it had a lot to do with God just kind of leading me his way.

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So growing up, there was some turbulence in the household, you could say.

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And it was, it was kind of a tough time growing up.

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And there was a significant age gap between myself and my brothers.

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So I got a couple of years of kind of undivided, you know, mom and stepdad time and, and then

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my biological father kind of satellite in my life, you know, still he isn't really, really

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very involved.

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We don't have as well developed a relationship.

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I was, so I would love to have some prayers for that.

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I appreciate that.

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But you know what?

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I had a really hard time coming up through school.

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Didn't have many friends, didn't really have a strong sense of purpose or community in

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my life.

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And so I was deeply depressed, deeply sad.

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In and out of therapy, on and off medication, I just remember from age nine to 11, it was

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just a lot of turbulence in the household, things not going well.

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And by the time I was 13, I was pretty sure I didn't want to live anymore.

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I was pretty much done with life up until that point.

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And so, you know, nothing seemed to help.

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I wanted to find a way.

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You know, I wanted a sense of hope and I held out hope for hope, but nothing seemed to help.

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Nothing seemed to work.

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And my mom will testify to this because, you know, she was there with me the whole time.

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And you know, I grew up praying.

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I grew up saying what we say and what we say.

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And I said to our father, you know, there's a picture of me as a little boy kind of in

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the pew in the Catholic church.

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It looks great.

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It looks like, wow, this kid's going to grow up to be so faithful in the Lord.

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And I just wasn't, you know, it wasn't really there.

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The connection wasn't there.

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The relationship wasn't there yet.

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But I remember one night, one fateful night, I discovered sincere prayer for the first

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time in my life.

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And it wasn't about head knowledge.

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It wasn't about saying certain words in a certain order.

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I just broke my heart open to God.

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I said, God, please, if you are real, now would be the time to show me something because

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I can't see tomorrow.

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I don't know what's going to happen.

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And I firmly believe that if I don't find a reason to live, I'm going to take myself

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out.

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And I don't want to do that because I know that ultimately it's only got to hurt those

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around me.

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I knew it was incredibly selfish to think that way and self-centered.

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And I just knew there had to be a better way.

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I just didn't know what that was.

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So yeah, it's about 1030 at night, 13 years old.

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I break my heart open to God as a God.

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Show me something.

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And immediately like snap your finger immediately this peace and warmth washed over me like

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a weighted blanket.

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And it just stilled me and just it calmed me.

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It was a sense of peace.

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And all I wanted, shall we, Josh, was just a break in the suffering, just a moment for

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it to stop.

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And it did.

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I got what I had asked for, right?

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I was excited.

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I wanted to jump out of bed and celebrate, but I quickly realized I couldn't move my

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body.

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I was paralyzed head to toe.

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And before I had too much time to panic, my eyes involuntarily rolled into the back of

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my head and I left my body.

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I went somewhere.

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I had a vision and I was in this white nothingness as far as the eye can see.

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Almost like if you're waiting at the doctor's office, but there's no ceiling tiles or check

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in window.

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It's just blank.

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And as quickly as I close my eyes and open them again.

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Jesus was standing there 20 feet in front of me and I ran to him in this rush of emotion,

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this relief and reverence and awe and a little bit of fear.

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I just ran and I threw my arms around him and I said, Lord, Lord, you came for me.

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You came for me.

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And I never even spoke like that.

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That language just came from the depths of my soul.

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And I knew it was Jesus.

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I knew it was him.

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I could barely see him because he was so luminous, so radiant.

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And he felt like he was seven feet tall and I was like just this little kid and he looked

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at me with compassion and he never spoke with his words, but I could hear his thoughts and

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he said, I want to show you something.

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So he put his hand on my shoulder and just like that we went to hell and use your imagination.

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Guys, I saw it.

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Okay.

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It was like this clearly finite, but very vast hit.

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The sky was black.

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It was void.

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It was like nothingness.

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If you're a Lord of the Rings fan, it was like being in Mountain Dew.

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I mean, it was horrific.

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It was awful.

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The landscape was just like Yellowstone volcano meets the Sahara Desert meets the Grand Canyon.

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And I'm seeing these rows and rows and rows of jail cells, but really they were like torture

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chambers, because inside of these jail cells were people, souls, like you and I naked and

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ashamed, being tortured endlessly by demons.

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I was watching these creatures, all shapes and sizes walking around.

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The heat is so intense that it feels like you could just melt, but it didn't.

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I was trying to breathe.

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My lungs collapsed.

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There was no air.

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I was trying to cry.

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There was no tears.

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There was no moisture.

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The smell was so putrid.

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I could vomit, but nothing came up.

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I noticed outside of these torture chambers, there was a plaque for everyone.

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And on the plaque was inscription.

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It was writing.

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I couldn't see it.

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It was almost too far away.

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I learned over a decade later that Jesus's last words on the cross where it is finished,

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right?

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In Greek, it's to telesteye is the word, which means paid in full, almost like you pay someone's

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debt, pay off their note, pay off their help, right?

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You get that note in the mail.

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It says you own it, right?

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It's paid for.

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And it hit me.

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Those plaques listed the sins that were never paid for by the blood of Christ.

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And I saw the lake of fire and I saw souls being tossed into the lake of fire like animals.

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Just burning, but never consumed.

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I saw the throne of hell behind the lake of fire.

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I saw Satan on the throne and it was like the moment that I saw him, he saw me and it

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was like somebody grabbed me and pulled me right up into his face.

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And I watched this crooked grin creep across his face.

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Cause in that moment I was in his world, you know, and he was winning down here and he

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was winning on the surface too.

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And I was probably there for like 20 seconds.

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Realistically, it felt like two hours.

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I beg God, please, please get me out of here.

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Right?

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I saw myself on all fours next to Jesus again, gasping for air.

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He places his hand on my shoulder and just like that, we went to heaven.

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Polar opposite experience.

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I'm floating there and there's this central source of light that is just emanating and

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penetrating everything.

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There is this beautiful, harmonious music and singing.

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So wonderful.

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It's almost like the molecules were dancing along with it in the air.

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There is this deep sense of peace and love and warmth.

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Imagine like the most intimate moment of your life, the most connected, most sacred moment

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of your life and magnify it by a thousand.

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That was every passing millisecond in heaven.

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It's like getting a hug from God and never let's go.

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And I am looking at it and I'm taking it all in and it's, it, heaven resembled earth.

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It was very much like earth.

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There was buildings and there was greenery and there were people and it just, it's somehow

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here and yet not here.

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It's somehow, it's like a different dimension.

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It's hard to put into words.

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I'm doing the best I can, but I asked God.

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I said, God, can I stay here?

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And he said, no.

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I said, so I have to go back.

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And he said, yes.

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I thought, oh, so before I realized it, we were back in the white nothingness.

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And I resent the fact that I was in hell twice as long as I was in heaven, but I didn't need

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pretty much.

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But I'm sitting there and the whole scene is starting to recede from once it came and

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the whites were turning to gray and then charcoal and then black, but Jesus was clearly silhouetted.

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And he, he extends his arms on both sides, almost like he's on the cross.

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And I see a snapshot in the heaven and a snapshot of hell on either side of him.

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And I feel myself start to come back into my body and my whole body is vibrating.

245
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And I can't quite open my eyes yet, but I can, I can feel the texture of, of my comforter

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of my fingers and, and I can, I could feel that I'm in my body.

247
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It's almost like somebody held a gong by my head and just hit it as hard as they could.

248
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And the words you choose just rang throughout my whole body.

249
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So you can imagine being a 13 year old kid, just having had this experience.

250
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I shot up in bed and I did what any irrational person would do.

251
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I started to explain away everything that just happened.

252
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Oh, it's just a dream.

253
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Relax, calm down.

254
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The doctors said this might happen.

255
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Maybe this is what they call a psychotic break.

256
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You know, maybe it was the medications, you know, calm down, come back to reality, right?

257
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Feeling my sheets.

258
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I'm trying to get grounded in where I am.

259
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And as much as I could call myself, I couldn't help but notice the time it was still 1030

260
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p.m. which is when I started to have this experience.

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So I thought that was very disorienting, very odd, you know, I start to get this sick feeling

262
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in my stomach, like what's going on?

263
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I hear the garage door.

264
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My mom's coming home.

265
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My mom's a nurse, she's been a nurse, she always reminds me of her nurse, the longer

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that you've been alive, it's always going to be true because she's still a nurse.

267
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And the mom's coming home, I noticed a little bit early.

268
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I thought, hmm, mom's usually not open until 11, 1130.

269
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What's going on?

270
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I hear her running through the house, running through the hall and she kicks the door in

271
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and the wood still split from where she kicked it in and she said, Ian, are you okay?

272
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Are you okay?

273
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And I'm thinking, you know, mom, you were with me in the therapist's office, what are

274
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you talking about?

275
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Right?

276
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You know I'm not well, but what do you mean?

277
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And she said, I was at work, was watching over a woman in a coma.

278
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This woman came out of her coma, she grabbed my arm with both hands, looked me in the eyes

279
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and said, I'm praying for your son.

280
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And then she went back under.

281
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And for the first time in my life, I heard the still small voice speak and he said, see,

282
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I knew you would doubt.

283
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,880
So I put an insurance policy in place so that you wouldn't.

284
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And I was done.

285
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I was cooked.

286
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I mean, it was like Charlie Brown.

287
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,760
You know, the volume came way down, my ears are ringing, my mom's getting bigger and more

288
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frantic and I can see her mouthing the words, did someone hurt you?

289
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:50,040
Is it drugs?

290
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:51,040
What's going on?

291
00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,920
And you know, like any concerned mom, any concerned parent, and I just was dumbfounded.

292
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My jaw just hung open there.

293
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,320
And the rest of that's kind of a blur.

294
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:05,520
But fast forward to 17, a girl I happen to be dating is a Christian, non-denominational

295
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,360
church kind of brings me into the fold and up being baptized in a small community church

296
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:11,360
in Bethel Park.

297
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:12,360
And you know what?

298
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,800
I remember her telling me about her experience of being baptized.

299
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,000
She's like, oh, Ian, it was so great.

300
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,840
It was like, it was like being in heaven, even just for a moment.

301
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:24,640
And I thought, oh, if I could just go home, even for a moment, I'll do anything, you know,

302
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,200
whatever it takes, right?

303
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:31,280
So my experience of being baptized was like being drafted for war.

304
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,880
Pastor dunked me in the water, brought me up, completely disoriented, completely just

305
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:36,880
out of my mind.

306
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:38,640
He's like, Ian, are you all right?

307
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:39,640
Are you okay?

308
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:40,640
There's that question again.

309
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:41,640
Are you okay?

310
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:43,240
And I'm like, I don't know.

311
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,240
This is something.

312
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,400
And it's been a battle ever since.

313
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:52,160
Ever since that experience when I was 13, almost every day, maybe not quite every day, it's

314
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,520
like I've had a target on my back, spiritually speaking.

315
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,640
You know, I was haunted and tormented by demons for years.

316
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,160
In my waking experience, I'd be walking around and I could just see them.

317
00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:02,840
They'd be in my dreams.

318
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,200
They'd be in my room at night.

319
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:10,080
They would just find any way to kind of distract me, derail me, scare me.

320
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:15,040
You know, my 30th birthday, I had a dream, again, kind of a demonic presence.

321
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:21,400
And this demon kind of unfolds this scroll and listed on the scroll is every way that

322
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,720
I'm going to be tortured in my lifetime because of what I've seen, because of what I've been

323
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,640
blessed with in a sense.

324
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:29,600
And I'm like, you know, I'm not buying it.

325
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:34,000
I think this is just a tool for fear, you know, to try to work its way into my mind.

326
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:38,520
And I do my best to bring that to the Lord and just let him deal with that.

327
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,000
But you know, it's been a wild ride.

328
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,360
It's been a very interesting journey.

329
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:48,520
And a lot of the things I've been wrestling with lately is kind of what it has God called

330
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,200
me to do exactly.

331
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:56,560
And what's interesting is, again, post-vision experience, I was blessed with wisdom about

332
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,720
life that I couldn't have known otherwise.

333
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:03,600
I was blessed with knowledge about people that I had no access to.

334
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,320
I can't tell you how many times someone would say to me, how do you know that about me?

335
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:08,720
Or how could you tell that?

336
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,920
Or the opposite, somebody would bring a concern to me.

337
00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:16,160
And I'm struggling with this, almost as if I had, assuming that I had the answer to their

338
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,840
problem or Ian, you know, I really need to tell you something.

339
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,040
I need to confide in you something.

340
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:26,960
Or another one is, you know, I've never told anybody this, but and then, you know, I know

341
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,720
things that people's spouses don't know about them.

342
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:31,280
I know things that nobody knows about them.

343
00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:36,320
And it's just, I've tried to, to the best of my ability to steward that with a sense

344
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:43,800
of trust, a sense of integrity, a sense of love and compassion, because what I get is

345
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,200
that God has me guiding people.

346
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,200
I can attest to that.

347
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:49,200
Thank you.

348
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:50,600
And please, chime in anytime.

349
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:51,600
Yeah.

350
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,560
When I reflect on the work I do now, it's really about helping people discover their

351
00:16:55,560 --> 00:17:01,120
purpose and life, their identity in God, in Christ, you know, who they were created to

352
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:02,120
be, why they're here.

353
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,240
Because I think if you know that, you know, many great philosophers and many great theologians

354
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:11,160
will say, you know, discovering your, your purpose is essential to your success because

355
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:16,160
the fulfillment of your purpose is success in this lifetime and in the next, right?

356
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:21,600
It's, if you know why you're here and you live in alignment with that, you cannot help

357
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:22,600
but to prosper.

358
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:24,280
You cannot help but to serve others.

359
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,240
You cannot help but to be a blessing to others.

360
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,280
And one of my mentors says that he quotes Abraham Lincoln.

361
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:35,680
He says, Abraham Lincoln once said, and if you piece up, I'll prepare myself and perhaps

362
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:36,680
my time will come.

363
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:41,280
And when my mentor said, well, I say, I'm going to prepare myself so that when my time

364
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:45,440
comes, it will either reveal me or it will expose me.

365
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:50,480
I say that if you prepare yourself one day, you will be a blessing.

366
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:55,480
You can make of yourself a blessing to others, whether your time comes or not, whether you

367
00:17:55,480 --> 00:18:02,480
think it did or not, because that's kind of the essence of the responsibility, the stewardship

368
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:10,000
and the power that we have as followers of Christ, you know, that you can make an impact.

369
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,120
You will make a difference.

370
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:15,600
The question is how big of a difference do you want to make?

371
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,360
How far do you want to go?

372
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:19,200
How hard do you want to hit?

373
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:20,880
How big do you want to be?

374
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:25,480
As long as he's getting the glory, as long as he's honored every step of the way, you

375
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,840
can't help but to be successful.

376
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,240
And so that's kind of at the heart of what I'm up to these days.

377
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:35,980
One of the things I've learned through doing this podcast and building my relationship

378
00:18:35,980 --> 00:18:40,560
with others at the church is God wants us to have that relationship with others, because

379
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:45,840
then our connections can lead us to, you know, the resources that we'll need or the support

380
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,360
that can get us through what we're going through.

381
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:54,640
And you know, he'll use your test and turn it into a testimony, your mess into a message.

382
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,440
And it's just, you know, just great because you don't, it doesn't have to be something

383
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,200
big to help somebody.

384
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,320
Just being there for a conversation, letting them speak to you.

385
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,720
It might be just exactly what they need, that relationship.

386
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:06,720
Yeah, I agree.

387
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,000
We are definitely built for a relationship.

388
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,640
God created us for a relationship with him.

389
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,920
And then he tells us to love each other as we love ourselves.

390
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,360
So clearly that relationship extends to each and every one of us.

391
00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:23,000
And so I firmly believe that each other is one of God's greatest gifts that he's given

392
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,880
us, not just himself, not just Jesus, not just the Holy Spirit, but each one of us as

393
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,640
well is one of the greatest gifts that God has given us.

394
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:36,280
And we need to really learn on how to harness that gift to its fullest, you know, in acts.

395
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:41,400
We see what it looked like when they had good relationship skills, when they broke bread

396
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,160
together, when they prayed together, when they were one mind.

397
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,600
It didn't mean they all agreed that the color taupe was the color they wanted for their

398
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:48,600
rug, right?

399
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,720
It didn't mean they all agreed that, hey, I like sunny days and I like rainy days.

400
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:52,720
None of that really mattered.

401
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,160
It was, they were all in agreeance on the Lord.

402
00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:00,760
And that's the unity that we need to find in our relationships with each other as well.

403
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,440
Well said, Josh.

404
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:03,440
Thank you.

405
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:08,840
So also interesting, you know, your account of when Jesus pulled you from your relaxing,

406
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,520
like he gave you this calm, and then he shows you himself.

407
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:17,360
And the first thing he does is he takes you to a place that you would never want to be.

408
00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:20,360
He reminds me of that book, 23 Minutes in Hell.

409
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:21,680
Have you heard of that?

410
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:22,680
I've heard of it.

411
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:23,960
Forget who the author is.

412
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,680
So he's there with me, but thank you.

413
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:26,680
Yes, that is it.

414
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:27,680
Absolutely.

415
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,400
And it's oddly reminiscent of that experience.

416
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:36,280
And you know, if you ever watch life after death shows and such, there are many people

417
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,040
that account similar tales.

418
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:44,720
And it makes me wonder though why Jesus would be so loving and then take you to a place

419
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,080
that's such a horrible place that he knows you're suffering just by witnessing.

420
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:53,400
That you're suffering there personally, but just by seeing it, smelling it, feeling it,

421
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:54,400
right?

422
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,880
That this is some place that he clearly knows you don't want to be and it's a harmful place

423
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:04,120
that he must love you so much to show you such a thing to help kind of gear you in the

424
00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:06,080
right direction, right?

425
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,600
Because when you woke up, you're trying to dismiss it, we all do this, right?

426
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,560
Jesus said so in the word that we'll explain it away when he's talking about Lazarus going

427
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,280
down in hell and, hey, tell my brother not to do that.

428
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:19,360
He's not going to believe it.

429
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:21,400
No one's going to believe it, right?

430
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:26,480
And so he basically explains that people will find a way to explain away some of our experiences

431
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:32,200
and a love that your mom rushed home because she also had an experience and that upon sharing

432
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,960
it with you, you gain this knowledge that, hey, this is the real deal.

433
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:36,960
Right?

434
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:37,960
This is the path.

435
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:38,960
This is the choice.

436
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:43,680
There is a choice and, you know, like it or not, death consummates that choice.

437
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,600
As soon as we die, there's no more choices to be made.

438
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,040
The last choice you made was the last choice that's ever going to be for you.

439
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,680
And I think that's a powerful way to discover the love of Jesus.

440
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,680
And you were also even talking about how you didn't spend as much time in heaven as you

441
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:58,680
did in hell.

442
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,440
And I think maybe you did, right?

443
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,240
Maybe you gave you more time because, you know, in times we forget.

444
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,760
Well, like with the times we lose track of it, but when we're in a bad moment, we hold

445
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,080
on to that time like tick by tick by tick.

446
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,320
And I think if he was to show you that, that was on purpose as well.

447
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,640
So that, you know, if you're going to the one place, it's going to seem like it's forever

448
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,120
longer than forever.

449
00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:24,120
Right?

450
00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:28,240
Whereas you go to the other place, forever is going to pass by quick at the same time,

451
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,240
never go away.

452
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,800
That's a pretty profound way to, at least that's how I interpret it because it's how

453
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,040
my brain works.

454
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,880
But when he put, when he shows it to you that way, it seems like the choice is obvious,

455
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,440
which you would want to take.

456
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:46,720
Like who would want to decide, oh, I want to go to hell or, you know, be away from Jesus

457
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:47,720
like forever.

458
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,400
No one wants that.

459
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,360
So a couple of things I want to speak to, but what both of you just shared.

460
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:57,640
So Josh, yeah, it's interesting because I didn't tell a soul about that experience including

461
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,840
my own mother for four years.

462
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:05,840
And then after that four years, I realized, okay, I was willing to tell my mom about this.

463
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,840
Maybe I'll tell my girlfriend about this.

464
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,320
Maybe I'll tell other people about this.

465
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,600
And I wasn't until I turned 28 that I actually went public with it and started sharing my

466
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,720
testimony publicly.

467
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:20,040
So part of what I got about the experiences, because initially I thought, yeah, right,

468
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,120
I was thinking just along the lines of what Shelly said, it's like, who would, who would

469
00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:24,360
choose otherwise?

470
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:25,360
Right?

471
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:26,920
But that's just it.

472
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:27,920
That's the whole thing.

473
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,360
And that's where it started with me was this is about my choice.

474
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:32,920
My choice was already made.

475
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,800
Scripture tells me that that moment that I broke my heart up into God, that moment that

476
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,720
I invited God into my life, I confessed with my mouth that I believed, I believed in my

477
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,480
heart because Jesus convicted my heart.

478
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,680
And in our conversion follows our conviction.

479
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,840
And that's that's in business as well as in our spiritual life, as well as in our relationships.

480
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:53,840
Right?

481
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,240
And we often have to be shown and we have to often have to experience the consequence,

482
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:04,840
the perceived loss, the perceived death, real or actual, before we will give our attention

483
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:10,320
to what is critical, what is a priori most important.

484
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:15,680
And sometimes in the wake of tragedy, sometimes in the wake of, you know, our hardest times,

485
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,680
we're closest to God in that time.

486
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,480
And we also prioritize our lives accordingly to what's most important, first him and then

487
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,720
everything after him.

488
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:30,600
And so speaking on suffering and pain, our purpose is linked to that.

489
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,600
And I believe comes from that.

490
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,840
Like earlier you said, test becomes our testimony, right?

491
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,520
My buddy reminds me of that all the time.

492
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,240
But you know what?

493
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,880
Suffering, like the Buddhists say, well, life is suffering.

494
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:43,240
So get used to it.

495
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:44,240
Or maybe that's a stoic.

496
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:45,240
I don't know.

497
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,940
And there's an essence, there's a nugget of truth in there to a degree.

498
00:24:48,940 --> 00:24:54,840
But when the light of Christ shines in our hurt spots, in our moments of suffering, in

499
00:24:54,840 --> 00:25:00,080
our moments of excruciating pain, he transforms that into a reason.

500
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,480
That day, you know, God gave me a reason for being.

501
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:03,560
He said so much.

502
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,240
And so a few words just by his presence.

503
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,160
He said, I love you.

504
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,840
I love you enough to be here to save you.

505
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,640
I love you enough to put you back on your feet and send you out.

506
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,760
I love you enough to say that I'll always be with you.

507
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,200
I'll never forsake you.

508
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:17,920
God was pursuing me my whole life up to that point.

509
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:19,840
I just wasn't conscious of it.

510
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,640
So when we talk about choice, who would choose such a thing?

511
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,280
Who would choose not heaven?

512
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,440
Who would choose not Christ?

513
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,080
No sane person rejects Christ.

514
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:39,160
The person, the teaching, the philosophy, the religion, the relationship, no sane person

515
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,840
does that.

516
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:47,280
Only an unconsciously insane person would do that because they're holding on to the wound.

517
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:52,880
They're identifying with their moment that was supposed to refine them, not define them.

518
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,480
We all have those moments, right?

519
00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:01,960
But Christ's presence and the love of Jesus transforms those things and makes them redeeming,

520
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,080
makes them beneficial, turns that into a gift.

521
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,640
And there's no better example than Christ and the work he did on the cross.

522
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,280
His passion wasn't just what he was excited about.

523
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,080
Oh, I'm so excited to do the work my father sent me to do.

524
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:21,240
It was also the extent that he was willing to go, the pain that he was willing to endure,

525
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,520
the sacrifice he was willing to make that made that work possible.

526
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,240
I find that very convicting, very interesting.

527
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,560
And Carl Jung, I studied psychology and behavioral science for about eight years.

528
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:39,640
And Carl Jung once said that until the unconscious is made conscious in your life, it will control

529
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,240
your life and you will call it fate.

530
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,040
And so to make a conscious choice requires that our mind needs to be opened up.

531
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,600
Our mind needs to be illuminated by the truth.

532
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:55,320
Because if I don't have the light in me, truth will never be revealed to me.

533
00:26:55,320 --> 00:27:01,160
If I don't understand the agency, the responsibility I have to be a good steward of the choices

534
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,360
I make, the decisions that follow and the actions that take place after that, I will

535
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:07,280
always be a slave.

536
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,200
I will always be a slave to sin.

537
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,240
I'll be a slave to darkness.

538
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,000
I'll be a slave to ignorance.

539
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,400
I'll be a slave to disempowerment.

540
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:15,960
I'll be a slave to addiction.

541
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,280
I'll be a slave to whatever the source of my addiction is, whatever hurt and whatever

542
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,440
pain that comes from.

543
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,600
I like to say we're not broken people that need fixing.

544
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,120
We're hurt people that need healing.

545
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:29,920
And so until that wound is healed, that pattern will continue.

546
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:35,280
Until our mind is filled with the light and the truth and the love of Christ, we won't

547
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:42,920
be able to consciously choose for ourselves to make the best choice that we have available.

548
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,360
That's good.

549
00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:50,360
So tell us, you mentioned earlier that you were going to do something with all of this

550
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:53,240
information, such as...

551
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,920
Yes, so right.

552
00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:01,360
So first of the year, this year, the Lord woke me up out of sleep and I could hear

553
00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:03,800
audibly in the room as if he's hanging out with me.

554
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,520
And wake up, I'm like, what is it, Lord?

555
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:07,520
What's going on?

556
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,000
It's like, I want you to write a book.

557
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,240
I'm like, a book?

558
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:11,240
Me?

559
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:12,240
Why?

560
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:13,240
For what?

561
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,240
And he said, I want you to tell your story.

562
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:16,760
I'm like, my story.

563
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:17,760
I'm like, okay.

564
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,440
I mean, who would read that?

565
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:20,440
Right?

566
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,080
Just because I don't think it's so special.

567
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,080
I don't know.

568
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:26,080
It seems unnormal.

569
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:27,080
It's just my life.

570
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,080
It's just, we all have one.

571
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,080
We all have a story.

572
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,080
That's how I see it.

573
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,960
He goes, no, people will read your story and they'll read themselves into your story.

574
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,760
And I thought, oh, I get it.

575
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:38,760
Okay.

576
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:39,760
Yeah.

577
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:40,760
So I'm working on a book.

578
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:41,760
It's called Getting to Know God.

579
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,600
And it's based on this idea that we are created for relationship.

580
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,000
You know, Josh hinted at that earlier and went right for that.

581
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,840
I mean, really, truly, that's the gift that God gives us in himself, with himself, but

582
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,360
also with each other.

583
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:59,640
So that book is going to unpack, you know, kind of how I came to know God.

584
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,360
It wasn't just like, I woke up one day and like, I've got this thriving relationship

585
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,760
with the Lord and I'm reading scripture all the time and I'm praising him and I'm worshiping

586
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:07,760
and I'm being community.

587
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,000
It's like, that happened gradually over time.

588
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:16,160
And so I wanted to kind of document that story, but also to get that story in the hands of

589
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:23,880
people who want a set of footsteps to follow so that they can see that, you know, these

590
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,640
kind of supernatural, extra ordinary things happen to very ordinary people every single

591
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,240
day.

592
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,280
And people have often said to me, oh my gosh, I wish I could have had experience like yours.

593
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,240
And I'm like, no, no, no, no, like you came to faith without seeing.

594
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,200
I had to see to believe, right?

595
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,680
Because at any point, my heart could have been convicted at any moment.

596
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:50,360
I could have opened my eyes and seen and perceived and not just observed, right?

597
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:55,560
At any moment, you know, God could have broken in my life if I was willing to let him in.

598
00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:01,280
But it was almost like I had to stop being God for myself to make way for God to come

599
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:02,280
into my life.

600
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,480
That's very important.

601
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,360
You mentioned the same issue that Didimus had, doubting Thomas.

602
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:09,800
He believes because he saw.

603
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,480
Blessed be those who believe without seeing.

604
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:17,200
And you know, I think, honestly, you'd keyed up on it before about having experience with

605
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,200
Jesus, right?

606
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,600
You need to have an experience before you really get fully locked in with him, that

607
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,200
you can go to church, that you can be on the ministry team.

608
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,520
You can be a greeter.

609
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,240
You can be in the pews every Sunday.

610
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,440
You can have your Bible open every day and you can seek and knock all day long.

611
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:40,880
But until you have that experience with Jesus, it's really hard to have that cautious belief,

612
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:41,880
right?

613
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,880
You may unconsciously believe and you may be saved because you believe and you want to

614
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,080
believe and you want a relationship with him.

615
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:54,800
However, things are transformed in your life once you have that experience with Jesus.

616
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:59,360
And I don't know if everyone knows that that's the requirement.

617
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:04,640
I don't know if everyone has an experience that is a believer or if they are consciously

618
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,280
aware that they had that experience.

619
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:12,160
But I do know that he will be faithful to give every single person an experience with

620
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:13,280
him.

621
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:19,440
And sometimes it takes more than one shot because we're not real bright.

622
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:24,560
We're comparing ourselves to God and he knows exactly how to speak to us, but we can be

623
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:25,560
very stubborn.

624
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,720
He's made us very stubborn people.

625
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,200
All the creation were the only thing that can tell him no.

626
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,200
Nothing else can tell him no.

627
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:39,000
He allows us the opportunity to come to him on our own, which is a mind blowing.

628
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,280
And then when we realize that we can't come to him on our own, he chooses us.

629
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:44,280
Hey, I chose you.

630
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:45,280
Don't worry about it.

631
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,000
I loved you before you could love me.

632
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,080
I loved you first.

633
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:50,080
And we still struggle.

634
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:51,840
So he says, I'm going to give you a little message.

635
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:52,840
I didn't get it.

636
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:53,840
I'm dense.

637
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:55,520
I'm going to give you another little message and another little message.

638
00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:00,240
And then 20 years down the line, you find even rejecting him for 20 years before you

639
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,640
finally get a message that hits home.

640
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,680
And his timing is always perfect.

641
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,880
So it's not that you rejected him to the point.

642
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,720
He could have knocked you out of your socks the moment you were born, but he chooses not

643
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,840
to because he's a loving father.

644
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:17,240
And he wants you to have the experiences that he's leading you through in those moments

645
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,640
to the point where you finally see, believe and give with your whole heart that at that

646
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:27,520
moment you have the tools necessary for this part of your life because you would not have

647
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:28,520
had it.

648
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,400
If you would have had that experience or realized you had that experience 10 years before, you

649
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:33,400
weren't the same person.

650
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:34,680
You didn't have the same trials.

651
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:35,680
You didn't have the same tribulation.

652
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,120
You didn't have the same testing.

653
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,120
Right?

654
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,400
We look at the refiner's fire, right?

655
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:41,400
In Malachi 3-3.

656
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,760
And I think that's where it is.

657
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:44,760
Yeah.

658
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,680
And the silversmith is working the silver.

659
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:53,840
He has to watch it the whole time to burn off the bad stuff and slough off the slurry.

660
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,880
And he has to watch it continually because he can overdo it and ruin it.

661
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,240
And he knows it's done when he can see his reflection in it.

662
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,080
And that's, I think, what a lot of people don't understand because not a lot of us are

663
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:06,080
silversmiths.

664
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,160
That's a perfect story that God has given us in that story.

665
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:11,560
And so, yeah, we go through that.

666
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:12,720
We're in the fire.

667
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,160
And there's a lot of crap that comes up in the service that needs to get taken off.

668
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,280
And he's attentive and he'll do it.

669
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,920
And sometimes we get impatient and we're like, no, I need you to do it now.

670
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,320
But he can ruin the process if he does.

671
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:24,640
But eventually we're ready.

672
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:29,560
We're out of this refiner's fire when he can see himself in the silver and where we

673
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:34,280
need to be, which is not where we started, not in the middle, but right at the point

674
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:35,280
where we need to be.

675
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,400
And we always think that, hey, what kind of a better husband would I be?

676
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,000
What kind of a better father would I have been?

677
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:41,000
What kind of a better brother?

678
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,120
What kind of a better son would I have been if I had had these tenants earlier?

679
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,440
If I'd had this belief, this conviction sooner?

680
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,560
And he's like, don't worry about that.

681
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,520
You have it when you need it.

682
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,160
And I think that's something we need to hold on to is you have it when you need it.

683
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,080
And it isn't for everybody.

684
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:03,400
The direct communication that he gives us, audibly saying, hey, wake up.

685
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:04,640
I got a story for you.

686
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,200
Get up and you're like, hey, what's up?

687
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,200
Right?

688
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:08,200
Not everybody experiences that.

689
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:09,200
Right?

690
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,480
Praise God that you do.

691
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,320
And I don't want to discourage anybody thinking like, well, I haven't heard God, you know,

692
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,880
audibly in my living room, but I bet you've heard him.

693
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:19,560
I bet you've heard him in someone else's lips.

694
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,160
I bet you've heard him by reading something.

695
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,440
I bet you heard him in a passing movie because he gave you a message in a movie that was

696
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,720
playing somewhere else that was exactly the phrase that you need to hear.

697
00:34:27,720 --> 00:34:28,720
Yeah.

698
00:34:28,720 --> 00:34:29,720
Right?

699
00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:30,720
He's always talking to us.

700
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:35,280
And you mentioned that still small voice after your mom gave you that revelation from the

701
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:36,640
woman in a coma.

702
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,000
And sometimes it's that.

703
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,680
And that's really a hard one to hear if you're not tuned into him, especially in this busy

704
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:43,680
world.

705
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:44,680
Oh my.

706
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,040
And that's another reason I want to plug fasting.

707
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,040
Right?

708
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,560
Fasting is a wonderful tool for helping to diminish the strength of your flesh, which

709
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:57,120
is at war with your spirit, so that your spirit can receive from God more effectively.

710
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,880
Or so you can receive from the spirit because they're always talking.

711
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:00,880
Yeah.

712
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,120
There's nothing you can do to slow the spirit down from talking to the father, but so that

713
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,960
you can receive from the spirit who's in tune with the father.

714
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:07,960
Yes.

715
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,720
So that you are better off in this warfare that we're in.

716
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:12,560
I know I've experienced it.

717
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:13,560
Hey, Matt.

718
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:14,560
And you know what?

719
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:19,440
And we do need, and I think we all consciously or not, we crave that experience.

720
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,080
We crave that intimacy.

721
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,720
I think that there comes a time when you, your heart's convicted and you come to believe.

722
00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:32,360
And you believe, or you have a really, really strong thought about your faith that becomes

723
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:33,520
true for you.

724
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:34,520
Right?

725
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:40,400
And then there you reach a point where you know there's this intimate knowledge in your

726
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,800
heart, in your, the depths of your soul.

727
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:48,680
On your worst day when the chips are down, you still can stake your whole life on this,

728
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,240
I believe this kind of knowing, you know?

729
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:56,880
And I think that God is always reaching out to us through the people that we meet, the

730
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,480
books we read, the music we hear, the media that we consume.

731
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:06,000
I mean, in between the lines, in the lines, in and around those relationships and those

732
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,200
conversations, he's always speaking to us.

733
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:13,520
I've had revelations come through other people from God, right?

734
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,640
That hit me in a particular moment of my life.

735
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:20,760
Actually more often than not, they came from people who didn't know him, which is interesting.

736
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:21,760
Very interesting.

737
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:22,760
He'll use anybody.

738
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:23,760
Everybody.

739
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:30,520
And one thing I've noticed through these podcasts is when people were ready and said, all right,

740
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:31,680
God reveal yourself.

741
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:32,680
He did.

742
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:33,680
He showed up.

743
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:34,920
And it's different for everybody.

744
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,800
It's just what they need, you know?

745
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,880
And a lot of people, another theme I've noticed is a lot of us didn't have a lot of friends

746
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,880
growing up, a lot of connections until we were seeking and asking the Lord like, hey,

747
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,280
I could use little friendship here.

748
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,000
It's getting a little lonely.

749
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:59,320
And then God shows up with the people he surrounds us with and puts in our lives.

750
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,000
And he's just willing if we just ask.

751
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:04,960
And have not, because you've asked not.

752
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:05,960
So just ask.

753
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,400
Ask and you shall receive.

754
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,360
That's my favorite verse of my lifetime.

755
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,680
And you've been living that out?

756
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,920
This year, Matthew 7, 7, 8.

757
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:14,920
Yep.

758
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:15,920
Critical.

759
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:16,920
Yes.

760
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:17,760
Critical.

761
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:18,760
That's what I'm needing.

762
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,040
Yes, not me at all.

763
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:22,760
I'm 100% just content.

764
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,280
And I drag him along for the ride.

765
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,600
I'm not craving extra things to do.

766
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,760
I'm not seeking self-improvement.

767
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,000
I'm so content with who I am.

768
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,760
I'm so content with where I am.

769
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,520
I'm just content.

770
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,160
And I know that comes from him.

771
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,520
And I'm full of joy in places where I shouldn't be.

772
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,120
I work EMS.

773
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:44,120
And I have a partner.

774
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:49,160
He's my permanent partner of paramedic I work with and 3 o'clock in the morning and we're

775
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,400
in a hospital and he's getting reports from a nurse and I'm making jokes and they're dad

776
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,400
jokes.

777
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:55,400
You know, they're not.

778
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,040
They're not quality jokes.

779
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,040
Right.

780
00:37:58,040 --> 00:37:59,040
But they make me laugh.

781
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,200
And that's all I care about.

782
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:01,200
And he just groans.

783
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,160
So shake his head and groan.

784
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,560
And he's like a six foot one bald guy with a beard.

785
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:06,560
He's like a Viking.

786
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:07,560
Right.

787
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,280
He's he works out and he's just a massive human being.

788
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,320
And I love making jokes to him because it just makes my night.

789
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,040
Sometimes I get into a smirk and he won't admit it.

790
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,800
But you'll get nurses commenting and I'll happy allies.

791
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:24,160
A local police officer that that describes me as the happy guy with glasses.

792
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,600
And she's only ever seen me in the middle of the night.

793
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,480
And everybody at work knows who it is when they describe me.

794
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:31,480
Everybody.

795
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:36,920
You know, I think of Barnabas, the son of encouragement, I think his name means right.

796
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,360
He's striking me as a Barnabas like the Lord has blessed you with such peace and contentment

797
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,640
in whatever scenario situation you happen to be in.

798
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,440
And you have to be in that state to encourage others.

799
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,520
So I think it's probably one of the blessings that you impart to your coworkers and pass

800
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,000
your bys and connections.

801
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,000
That's really cool.

802
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,160
I was given a prophetic word.

803
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:58,920
Oh, man, a decade ago at my church two churches ago.

804
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,520
And it was a peace that I would be a bringer of peace.

805
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,040
And I don't I didn't see it.

806
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,480
I don't see it sometimes because sometimes, you know, I get angry, you know, I'm not,

807
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:09,480
I'm human.

808
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:10,720
My flesh is very weak.

809
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:12,960
My spirit fights with it all the time.

810
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:14,560
And sometimes I'm introverted, right?

811
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,480
I can only have so many conversations with somebody before I'm tapped out.

812
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,760
Like I got to go before I start getting fussy.

813
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,080
And so I was like, I don't know about that.

814
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,200
And then I see it, you know, at three o'clock in the morning when I'm consoling some lady

815
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,920
and she's upset and her husband's on our gurney and she's crying.

816
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,720
I'm like, look, it's okay.

817
00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:37,360
And I'll just or this other lady, her daughter got burned in a fire, a flash fire from a

818
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,880
can of Pam that was left on the stove and exploded.

819
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,480
And she gets a pretty significant third and second-degree burns.

820
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:45,960
Thankfully, no first-degree burns.

821
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,200
So there's no tissue damage or permanent tissue damage.

822
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,400
And the mom is up front with me and she was in the back with my medic because she needed

823
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:53,760
to push pain med for her.

824
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,440
And she's crying and she got on the phone and she's talking to her father or trying

825
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:58,440
to get hold of her father.

826
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,200
She couldn't because she wanted to pray.

827
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,160
And then she got on the phone and said, Hey, I'm not your dad, but I'll pray with you.

828
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,360
And so I prayed with her right in the mirror and her way to the hospital.

829
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,720
And I don't know if it helped during that moment, but I felt better asking.

830
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:11,720
Yeah.

831
00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:16,240
I mean, so it's interesting that you highlight that, Josh, because every day in some small

832
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:22,240
way, we have an opportunity to make an impact in somebody's life, to make an impression,

833
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:23,960
to point the way.

834
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:29,280
And oftentimes we don't realize that that moment could have an eternal impact on that

835
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:30,560
person's life on their soul.

836
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:31,560
Right.

837
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,640
I mean, it's, it doesn't take much.

838
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:39,840
It's oftentimes in the simplest, subtlest gesture, a word of encouragement, a moment

839
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,760
to pray, the ministry of presence, just sitting with someone.

840
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:48,440
Like, yeah, there's been many times I've been trying to console someone and it's like everything

841
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:49,880
I say doesn't really help.

842
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:54,400
So I just sit there and just be present and listen if they want to say something.

843
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,320
And oftentimes nothing's really said and they'll just say, thank you.

844
00:40:58,320 --> 00:40:59,320
Really?

845
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:00,560
Not just being there.

846
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:05,280
I have had that thought impressed on me recently, not about sitting and being quiet.

847
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:06,280
That's not my forte.

848
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,320
I mean, I can, I have the wherewithal.

849
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,360
But I had a conversation with God and I said, you know, I don't really, I can't think of

850
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:13,920
anything outstanding that I've done.

851
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:19,320
I can't think of anything that when you come to judge, not me, because Jesus is clothing,

852
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,120
means righteousness, but to judge my merits on earth, to see that, hey, look, you said

853
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,080
this bad word, you said this filth, you said, I can think of a lot of things you're going

854
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:27,080
to pick on me about.

855
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:28,080
Right.

856
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:29,680
And I was like, I don't know who I all help.

857
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,560
Like, I don't know like what I did.

858
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,720
And the thought occurred because it's how he usually gives me these good ideas is that

859
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:41,680
I won't know nearly all of them because of the people I talk to, the people that I've

860
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:43,560
blessed without knowing that I've done it.

861
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:48,360
Somebody that I held a door open for, somebody who I said, hey, are you, are you doing okay?

862
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,040
And then they weren't.

863
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:55,280
And you know, just that somebody noticed them, you know, things that I am oblivious to, right?

864
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:56,280
I just see it.

865
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:57,280
I comment on it.

866
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,000
I think I'm going to be something, encourage someone, I move on.

867
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,480
I had no idea the lasting impact it had on that person.

868
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,560
And so it was impressed on me that those are also going to be a lot of what's going to

869
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:07,640
be summed up in it.

870
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,440
It's not just the things that I think of, but a lot of the things I don't even remember,

871
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,800
the things I don't consider that he saw and said, no, no, we're considering it.

872
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:16,800
Wow.

873
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:17,800
Well said.

874
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:19,680
I think we look for that impact.

875
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:20,960
We look for those opportunities.

876
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:26,160
We almost like hold our stuff up to the light to see like, is there any merit in this?

877
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:27,160
Is there any value in this?

878
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:28,160
Is there any worth in this?

879
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:35,200
And I think it's because we all are creatures that hunger for meaning in our lives.

880
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:40,600
And without that meaning, without hope, we go down the tubes very quickly.

881
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,880
We go down that downward spiral, sometimes in a moment, sometimes in a couple of days,

882
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,200
a few hours, it doesn't take long.

883
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:51,200
Human beings do not live very long without hope.

884
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,200
We lose our sense of hope or sense of meaning.

885
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:58,400
You know, if we're not on the brink of not wanting to be alive anymore, we're cut off

886
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,360
from the vines, so to speak, right?

887
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:05,440
That life, blood isn't flowing through us quite the same way with the spirit and not

888
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:10,360
to get all super spiritual because we might be killing ourselves super slowly with things

889
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,540
like drugs and alcohol or cigarettes or whatever it is, right?

890
00:43:14,540 --> 00:43:17,720
That happens to be the our thorn in our flesh.

891
00:43:17,720 --> 00:43:25,080
And so when we are on course in an alignment with why God put us here, Josh, like God had

892
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,640
something very specific in mind when he made you, Shelly, same thing.

893
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,240
God had something very specific in mind when he made you.

894
00:43:31,240 --> 00:43:34,800
We all have a purpose.

895
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:36,640
We were born with it.

896
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:38,760
We were born into it.

897
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:43,760
And it's always demonstrable of kind of who God created us to be, right?

898
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:49,840
And when you're living and acting and moving in accord with that of one mind, with that

899
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,920
of, you know, your heart is convicted in that.

900
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:59,200
What's cool is God sort of set us up for success because we all have gifts that are consistent

901
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,680
with that calling, that are consistent with that purpose, right?

902
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,320
That it allows us to build up the body.

903
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:06,880
It allows us to serve.

904
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:12,680
I highly encourage you if you're listening to this to look up the spiritual gifts in

905
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:18,400
the Bible, sit with it, figure out which gifts do you have that can empower your service,

906
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,240
that can empower your profession, that can empower your relationships, that can empower

907
00:44:21,240 --> 00:44:26,080
your health, that can empower you to empower others, maybe, to help them reach their potential.

908
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:30,600
Because God gave us the equipment that we needed already.

909
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:35,680
We already have everything we need right now to make a difference right where we are, to

910
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,080
make an impact right where you are, right now.

911
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:45,280
And I think that's an encouraging word because oftentimes we can see our ultimate place.

912
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:46,880
I'd love to be there.

913
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:48,960
You know, I'd love to create that.

914
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:54,320
I would love to be at this point in my life or at that point in my life or maybe it's

915
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,920
regret, maybe it's, there's a gap there.

916
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:01,480
Oh, I wish I could have, should have done this thing, right?

917
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,360
But right now we have all that we need, truly.

918
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,880
Yeah, just have to step out and bathe, do something with it.

919
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,000
Sometimes that's scary, right?

920
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,560
Sometimes it's hard to take that faith and you know, praise God that he saw that ahead

921
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,480
of time as well too and said, I didn't make you timid beings.

922
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,600
I gave you a spirit of boldness and of power and strength, right?

923
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,480
So praise God that he thought of all the angles, all those things that we try to weasel out

924
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,120
of like, oh no, it's not my forte.

925
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:29,960
It's like too bad.

926
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,440
I empowered you, you have this.

927
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:37,440
And the more that you assume the mantle of the Christhood that when what he's done for

928
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:42,080
you, the easier it is to step out in that faith, the easier it is to just say, and just

929
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:47,920
walk right off, you know, and I've had many an experience where I could have held my tongue

930
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,360
through fear or this is not going to be taken well.

931
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,160
And I'm like, here it goes.

932
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,400
Because I don't care if it's taken well.

933
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,760
I don't care if it's received well.

934
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:03,480
I can judge by, I'm a pretty good judge of facial expressions that see if it hit home

935
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:04,480
or not.

936
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,760
I'm tailored after that point to drive it into where it needs to go.

937
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:09,760
But it's not going anywhere.

938
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,360
If I don't put it out there.

939
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,560
And so I've had many a conversation and I like to startle people with conversation.

940
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:21,880
I like to say something shocking to people because I find for me gets in the listen.

941
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:26,200
And then once you're listening, I can hit it home and explain exactly what I mean.

942
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:30,920
And sometimes I've offended some people and it's not my intent to leave them offended.

943
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,760
But sometimes it's my event to start them off that way, you know, to just really rile

944
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,000
them up a little bit so that I love conflict.

945
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,240
God has really built me for that.

946
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:42,800
Instead of using it for evil, I use it for his goodness.

947
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,720
You know, when someone says something like, oh, I don't believe in Jesus or a Christmas

948
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:48,520
is so Michael really a lot of minute, let's go.

949
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:49,520
Let's talk.

950
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:50,520
I'm ready.

951
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,920
So the same thing is I'll rile someone up just to get them wanting to speak.

952
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,880
I want to know what your opinion actually is.

953
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,400
And then when I know it, I can actually fight those reservations.

954
00:46:58,400 --> 00:46:59,760
I'll know what it is.

955
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:00,760
I'm fighting.

956
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,320
I'm holding back on when I know what you're being reserved about.

957
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:07,680
And then I've never, never left a conversation with somebody mad at me that I've talked

958
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:08,840
into about Jesus.

959
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:15,920
I've even had a person with gender dysmorphia in the back of my ambulance transferring for

960
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:17,840
suicidal ideations.

961
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,920
And at the end of the conversation, this person told me it's the longest conversation they

962
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:26,680
had ever had with a Christian before and that they, they enjoyed the conversation.

963
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:31,160
And I did the best I could to validate that they were people and validate that the feelings

964
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:36,240
they felt were real, though not necessarily based on truth.

965
00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:41,000
And it morphed into talking about Jesus and talking about his kingdom.

966
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,640
And it was a really pleasant conversation with this person who was really excited to know

967
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,840
a little bit more who would not have done it any other way.

968
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,040
If I hadn't approached things the way I approach things.

969
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:56,360
Well, we also talked about gifts of the spirit and episode for, for those of you who have

970
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,480
never even heard it, go back and listen.

971
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:03,760
We talk about the gift of healing that Josh seems to have because I was healed over a

972
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:04,760
decade of pain.

973
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:09,560
Nathan was healed from things and it's just, I think it's a good episode.

974
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:10,560
And you work in EMS.

975
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:11,560
Isn't that crazy?

976
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:15,120
So, you know, it's interesting because Shelly, I think I might have shared this with you

977
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,520
before kind of the idea of the podcast came along.

978
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:24,240
It was like, like it's proverbs 18, 16, I believe, but a person's gift makes a way for

979
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:25,240
them.

980
00:48:25,240 --> 00:48:29,040
A person's read it, a person's gift will bring them before kings, right?

981
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:33,960
Because it's, it's what is that stroke of excellence about what we do.

982
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:38,120
And I think it's overlooked often because people don't realize that they have it.

983
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:42,840
If it's truly a gift, then you, you kind of do it and use it unconsciously.

984
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,400
And enjoy it.

985
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:45,400
And enjoy it, right?

986
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:46,840
There's joy in it.

987
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:48,720
It's oftentimes it'll bear fruit.

988
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:49,720
It has an effect.

989
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:53,320
It has a, a lasting result that comes from it.

990
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:54,600
I'm hoping that for this.

991
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:55,600
Oh yeah.

992
00:48:55,600 --> 00:49:00,200
Well, I mean, just by virtue of the fact and, and, you know, early on, of course I wanted

993
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,840
to encourage you to keep going, right?

994
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:07,960
But when I realize this thing has a momentum of its own, it just is going, right?

995
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,360
And that's because you're in your gifts with it and you're blessing others with it.

996
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:15,000
And God will prosper that, right?

997
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:19,040
It doesn't have to come from solely from your effort.

998
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,440
Requires your participation.

999
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:26,240
Wires us to work together, right, to make it happen, to deliver, you know, to drive it

1000
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:27,600
where it needs to go, right?

1001
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:31,240
As Josh said earlier, but it's hardly 50-50.

1002
00:49:31,240 --> 00:49:34,800
I mean, it's something more like 90 God 10 us, you know, really, truly.

1003
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:40,480
It's like he can bless every step, every act, every word, every gesture with what we do.

1004
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:41,480
Thank goodness for that.

1005
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,840
I want to thank you so much for being a part of this today.

1006
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,160
And for the first time I get to meet you, I've heard about you a lot.

1007
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,760
You speak very highly of you, so it's finally nice to see a face to go along with the hype.

1008
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,520
Yeah, well, I don't know about hype, but thank you.

1009
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:56,520
No, no, it's from her.

1010
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:57,520
It's hype.

1011
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:58,520
Yeah, it's moving.

1012
00:49:58,520 --> 00:49:59,520
She's the hype girl.

1013
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,720
No, I'm really grateful to be a part of this with you.

1014
00:50:02,720 --> 00:50:04,000
It's an honor.

1015
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:05,000
And it's really cool.

1016
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:09,960
I mean, a few things bring me as much joy in life to see an idea come to fruition.

1017
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:16,040
And I think because everybody has at least one great idea locked up inside of them, right?

1018
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,120
And so much of the work that I do is aimed at, like, how can it be?

1019
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:19,120
How can you draw that out?

1020
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:25,680
You know, Proverbs 20 verse five says a different translations read differently, but the one

1021
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:30,480
I like is purposes or the purpose lies deep in the mind.

1022
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,000
It's like deep water, right?

1023
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,280
But a person of understanding will draw it out.

1024
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:39,960
So I try to help people to unlock their mind so they can really unleash their faith.

1025
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,320
And I'm in the business world, so in the marketplace.

1026
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:47,200
But whether it's in the marketplace or whether it's in your church community or whether it's,

1027
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:51,200
you know, serving underserved communities, whatever it is that the Lord is putting on

1028
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,400
your heart to do, you've been equipped for it, right?

1029
00:50:54,400 --> 00:51:00,640
So drawing out that purpose, drawing out that direction and igniting their passion to get

1030
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,440
them going, right, is what I love to do.

1031
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:09,760
So seeing that the podcast has come to life, you know, seeing that it's got momentum, it's

1032
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,600
so, so meaningful and so wonderful to see.

1033
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,000
So thank you for having me.

1034
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,720
Thank you for being a part of it and joining us today.

1035
00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:22,640
And if this episode has been a blessing to you, we pray that you pass it on to others

1036
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,560
so it can be a blessing.

1037
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:30,960
And also we have a fundraising campaign to help with the expenses of audio editing.

1038
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:36,120
And if you look up gifsango.com, you can look up God's Goodness Podcast and you can donate

1039
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:45,440
there and we appreciate that and we'll talk to you next time.