1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:12,080
Welcome to the God's Goodness podcast, where our mission is to encourage as well as highlight

2
00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,320
God's Goodness and modern-day miracles.

3
00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,200
We are your hosts, Josh and Shelly Hankins.

4
00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,140
Today we have with us a special guest.

5
00:00:19,140 --> 00:00:24,220
His name is Sam Gaetano, and he is going to be sharing a little bit of his history with

6
00:00:24,220 --> 00:00:32,440
us, and you are going to be blown away how this gangster turned warrior for God, and

7
00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:33,640
it's just going to be great.

8
00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,960
So he's going to start us off with a quick prayer, and then we'll get into it.

9
00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:44,520
Heavenly Father, we just take a moment right now to quiet our minds and lift you up.

10
00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:51,200
Father, we pray in the name, the mighty name of your son Jesus, that this testimony and

11
00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:57,860
the words that we speak today will bring light and hope to those who might be lost, who might

12
00:00:57,860 --> 00:00:59,120
not know you.

13
00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,720
So Lord, we just give this to you right now in the mighty name of Jesus.

14
00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:04,720
Amen.

15
00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:05,720
Amen.

16
00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:06,720
Amen.

17
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:07,720
Thank you for that.

18
00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:12,440
And so I've asked my guest to have the Holy Spirit lead them, because he's just running

19
00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,440
this show, because I can't do it alone.

20
00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,960
We can't do anything without him.

21
00:01:17,960 --> 00:01:20,800
So they say you can't even go to Walmart these days without Jesus.

22
00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:21,800
Amen.

23
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,720
You never really should have ever tried to go anywhere without him at the first place.

24
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:25,720
All right.

25
00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:26,720
So let's hear.

26
00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:27,720
Okay.

27
00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:29,040
I guess we'll start at the beginning.

28
00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:30,040
Right?

29
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,520
I was born in McKees Rocks, 1958.

30
00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:40,160
I'm the second of four biological children to Samuel Salvatore Gattano and Pia Irina,

31
00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,360
Brandi Marty Gattano, first generation Italian immigrants.

32
00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:49,440
My father moved us to Crafton Heights when I was about seven years old to get us into

33
00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:50,440
a nice home.

34
00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,040
My father was a salesman for Philip Morris Cigarettes.

35
00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,160
My mother was a stay-at-home mom.

36
00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,160
I have an older sister, Joyce.

37
00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:04,360
She's now retired chemical engineer and a younger brother, Dino, and a younger sister,

38
00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:05,520
Christina.

39
00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:06,680
Brought up Catholic.

40
00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:11,840
I attended eight years of Catholic school, grade school, and then my parents wanted us

41
00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:13,640
in a private school.

42
00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:21,040
So I attended Canavan until they threw me out for selling pot to the head guidance

43
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:22,040
consul's son.

44
00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,720
I got caught smoking weed up behind the school with this.

45
00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,400
So they threw me out and kept him.

46
00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:27,400
Anyhow.

47
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:28,560
Narcissism, even in kids.

48
00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:29,560
Yeah.

49
00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:35,680
So I can say that I experienced so much love from my parents.

50
00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,240
They always encouraged us.

51
00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,600
You can do anything you want.

52
00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:46,240
You know, they were living the American dream, but I heard they said, you can be anything

53
00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,800
you want in this country, Sammy.

54
00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,200
What I heard was you can do anything you want and not get caught.

55
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:59,520
So in my early years in McKee's Rocks, a lot of the servicemen coming back from World

56
00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,680
War II, they had these complexes.

57
00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:06,320
This was called Ohio View Acres and a large Italian family, right?

58
00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:07,800
My mother had eight siblings.

59
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,600
My dad had five.

60
00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,520
All my aunts and uncles all had like nine, 10, six.

61
00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:20,200
I mean, I had like 51, I think we counted first cousins without their spouses.

62
00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,520
And they kept a lot of the Italian cultures.

63
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:27,680
They loved America, but the cooking and the wine making and the bread making and all the

64
00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:32,880
different like maternal grandparents lived in Sheridan and they settled up on this place

65
00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,920
called Dickens Street and it was like a homestead, right?

66
00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:40,400
They had a barn and chickens and pigs and cows and outdoor bread oven and I used to

67
00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:41,640
love playing up there.

68
00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,440
I had so many wonderful childhood memories.

69
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,680
We always had the, I like to joke around and call it here, the nicest Sunday afternoon

70
00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:49,680
dinner.

71
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:54,640
We would go to church, go to their house for spaghetti dinner, eat like two o'clock and

72
00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:56,680
then we'd watch wrestling.

73
00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,160
My grandpa loved watching Bruno San Martino.

74
00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:01,160
You know, Italian.

75
00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:02,160
Of course.

76
00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:03,160
Yeah.

77
00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,440
It was so sweet, the monocke, we used to call her monoget.

78
00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:07,960
She would run over.

79
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:15,240
She was probably at that point in time the most spiritual person that I knew because

80
00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:20,000
she was always like would fall running around in the fields, would come back.

81
00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:21,760
She didn't speak a word of English.

82
00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,240
My grandpa spoke broken English.

83
00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:29,360
Vincenzo was his name, but she would say, oh bellovaggio bene qua.

84
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,680
And she'd clean it and then she'd make the sign in the cross and then say facce

85
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,520
chris, the face of Christ.

86
00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,200
I would see her praying a lot on her knees.

87
00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:38,200
I'd come upstairs.

88
00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,040
It was a big farmhouse, right?

89
00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,200
So as kids, our cousins, we'd all hang out together, run around.

90
00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:49,040
I used to see her praying and singing to the Lord in Italian.

91
00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:54,240
And that always, that image today reminds me like she was charismatic before charismatic

92
00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,600
was cool, before it even hit in the 70s.

93
00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:57,600
Okay.

94
00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,520
Cause this was like mid 60s, late 60s.

95
00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:04,360
And at St. Martin's, I became an older boy when we moved to Kraft and Heights.

96
00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,320
So we moved out of McKees Rocks.

97
00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:10,560
And on my dad's side, we would always go there for holidays, keep a lot of the family traditions

98
00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,360
and a lot of the Italian, I have a bunch of cousins there.

99
00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:14,480
We all hung out.

100
00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:21,640
And my father made it a point to teach us a work ethic, a strong one, to love God and

101
00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:22,960
love our families.

102
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:27,520
I mean, and that's what I try to do with the family I have here.

103
00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,800
When you would visit your grandmothers, you said you used to love it.

104
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,320
You love still playing there.

105
00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,800
Did her spirituality play any part in your desire to be there?

106
00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:40,400
Like just watching her do that, just loving on that moment with so much apart of it?

107
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:41,400
Hugely.

108
00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:42,400
Hugely.

109
00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,680
And that's a really good question because she had that nurturing, right?

110
00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,120
You know, Italians, we bickered a lot, right?

111
00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:53,400
We wore our emotions on our sleeves and there was always a lot of, I'd seen a lot of violence.

112
00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:59,760
And again, I was really confused, I would say from like 7 to 12, 13 years old because

113
00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:04,000
there was always so much love, but there was always all this bickering and breaking things.

114
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:05,880
And it was like out of a movie, right?

115
00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,200
Like things would fly out the window like if it wasn't right.

116
00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,840
And we would always pray it over our meals.

117
00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:15,280
We would say grace, nothing, you know, we would thank God for the food and ask Him to

118
00:06:15,280 --> 00:06:16,280
bless it.

119
00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:21,440
And then there would be buns flying and food flying and cussing at each other and then

120
00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:29,160
my mom, my mom and my grandmother would always stop that and get us back into some resemblance

121
00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,040
of normalcy, you know?

122
00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:36,540
But as I got older and I started going to St. Martin Catholic School, I learned a couple

123
00:06:36,540 --> 00:06:41,160
things there spiritually that, let me just say this, I was confused, right?

124
00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:46,600
We didn't have a church, so we did church in a gym and it was converted every Sunday

125
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:47,680
for two masses.

126
00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,040
They called it mass.

127
00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:53,320
And as an older boy, you got the morning shift, like 6 a.m. mass, right?

128
00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,360
You were low on the totem pole in seniority.

129
00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,800
So I would be setting up, right?

130
00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,480
And my grandmother, who went, walked, she wouldn't get in a car.

131
00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:02,720
She loved to walk.

132
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:07,560
She was from the foothills of Aquasanta and Marquesa in Italy.

133
00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:09,800
She was like a farmer, like a village farmer, right?

134
00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:14,400
And they set their homestead up exactly like, I guess it was in Italy because I went there

135
00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,760
last summer and walked through those streets and seen it.

136
00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:17,760
And it was amazing.

137
00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:18,760
It was amazing.

138
00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:19,760
I was so proud to enjoy it.

139
00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:21,640
It was my childhood dream.

140
00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:27,840
She would come into church knowing her grandson was there serving mass as an older boy.

141
00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:32,160
And she would kneel down in front of that cross and outstretch her arms and start singing

142
00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,880
Grazio Dio.

143
00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:36,920
Thank you, God, right?

144
00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:42,720
And the priest at that time, Father Pendelle, would shush her out like she was making too

145
00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:43,920
much noise.

146
00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,720
Or she was just different, right?

147
00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:52,080
She didn't adapt completely to the American culture or to the Catholic Christian way of

148
00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:53,080
life.

149
00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,080
She was very opening, like I said, charismatic.

150
00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:56,880
But in a beautiful moment.

151
00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:57,880
Yeah.

152
00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:02,640
And I'll never forget like filling up the wine, crewettes and whatever I had to do to prepare

153
00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,560
for the priest to come out and seeing her doing that and her smiling at me.

154
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:07,880
And she was just the sweetest thing.

155
00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,680
She was always hugging and kissing me, but she used to always, she was the healer, but

156
00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:13,520
I used to see her walking, right?

157
00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,120
She wore the blue and white polka dot dress because the white was supposed to represent

158
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,640
the host of communion.

159
00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:24,080
She carried a walking stick, right, to ward off dogs like they did in Italy.

160
00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,480
And she wore a babushka and carried her groceries and a basket on her head.

161
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:34,040
So further down the line, when I was going to Langley High School after Pino and kicked

162
00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:40,320
me out, there was a Kroger's there that she would carry her groceries up to Dickens Street.

163
00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,840
That's about a mile walk and the kids used to tease her because she was different.

164
00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,680
She didn't speak English, you know, she had the stick and she used to get like, she did

165
00:08:48,680 --> 00:08:49,920
a lot of walking.

166
00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,080
She would walk three or four masses a day.

167
00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:53,720
One was downtown at St. Mary's.

168
00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:55,720
She loved that church for some reason.

169
00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,920
I'd see her walking on Carson Street as I got older and started driving.

170
00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:04,680
But she always represented the love of Christ because she loved Christ dearly.

171
00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:09,680
I mean, this is a woman that came to this country, left her siblings and had eight children

172
00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:15,680
and went through the depression, but never ever wavered in her faith for Jesus Christ.

173
00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:17,520
And that was the attraction.

174
00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:19,640
And my grandpa too, he used to always hug and kiss.

175
00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:25,000
And then on my father's side, my paternal, I didn't know my paternal grandfather, but

176
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:30,160
my dad's mom, Giovanni, every time we visited there, she would make me a nice sandwich and

177
00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,000
she would pray over me and she would just kiss me.

178
00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:38,200
They were all about like four, eight, four, nine foot tall, tiny little.

179
00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,480
So as a young boy, I could hug them and be I and I would just see this beautiful love

180
00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:43,680
in their eyes.

181
00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:47,640
And my dad used to always tell me, driving back from Scharpsburg, the eyes are windows

182
00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,080
to the soul son.

183
00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:53,800
So I ended up just really being in love with my grandparents and my parents.

184
00:09:53,800 --> 00:10:00,440
So at about 10 or 11 years old, as an older boy, this priest molested me, Father Pindell.

185
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,360
I didn't really tell anyone about it.

186
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:08,880
But while he was grooming me, he would come to my parents' house for dinner and he wanted

187
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,960
me to go to this weekend to treat in Ohio.

188
00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,280
St. Gilmarys was the name of the place.

189
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,680
And my dad was a hard no, right?

190
00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:21,520
And when he left, I heard my dad say, this guy's light on his feet.

191
00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,440
Our son's not going anywhere with him.

192
00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,000
And I didn't know what that meant.

193
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,480
So I asked my mother, what does that mean he's light on his feet?

194
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,160
And she goes, oh, your dad, you know, she just blew it off.

195
00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,680
And I'll never forget that afternoon.

196
00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:37,200
He came over for some spaghetti dinner and left that afternoon.

197
00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:38,200
Early evening.

198
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,560
If only they would have told you that it connected the dots.

199
00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:41,560
Yeah.

200
00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:42,560
Well, I didn't know.

201
00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:44,160
And like no one talked about it, right?

202
00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:45,720
That means like he's gay.

203
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:46,720
Yeah.

204
00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:47,720
Sugar in his tank.

205
00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:48,720
You ever heard that phrase?

206
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,960
It's like a street slang for light on your feet means like you're a homosexual or you

207
00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:54,280
have same sex.

208
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:58,960
I remember like in second grade, we were talking about before where like you have communion

209
00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,720
or you're at age to make communion and you have confirmation.

210
00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,840
I remember when he was teaching me, he always had his hands rubbing on my shoulder and down

211
00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:07,840
my back.

212
00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,080
And then a couple of times he went on to my buttocks.

213
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:15,440
But as an older boy in that back room where we got dressed with all this garb for mass,

214
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:20,360
he actually made strong sexual aggressions towards me.

215
00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,120
And the third time he had his hands in my pants.

216
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:27,240
And actually, I learned how to fight in the research or because I was a short little guy

217
00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,800
and the eighth graders from one to eight all had recess at the same time.

218
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:36,240
So the older kids would come over and take your lunch money and pick on your bully.

219
00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,120
And I learned how to fight.

220
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,800
So when he did that, I pushed him back and he tripped over some boxes and he fell flat

221
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:48,240
on his can and I took my smock off and I threw it on him and I cussed at him and I never

222
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,480
went back.

223
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,960
And then I started cutting church and that was 10 years old.

224
00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,360
That was, by that time, I was probably like 11, 10 or 11.

225
00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:58,360
It was 68.

226
00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:03,600
So yeah, then I do know that there were some other complaints made and they moved him to

227
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,840
St. Gilmarys, which was like a reformatory or something.

228
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:09,360
And like they just kept moving this guy around.

229
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:14,360
And the only reason I know that is I told my sister Joyce what happened and there were

230
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:19,240
some other guys on our older boy crew who did go to Gilmarys for these weekend retreats

231
00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:20,920
and they came back different.

232
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,360
And I knew he got them.

233
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,240
Because we were very open in our family about sex.

234
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,560
My parents talked to us a lot about it and you got to remember this was the sexual revolution.

235
00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:33,160
Well, you had 51 first cousins.

236
00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:34,160
So yeah.

237
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,240
Well, I mean, your family knows all about it in the culture at that time.

238
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:39,240
Right.

239
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:40,240
If it feels good, do it.

240
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:41,240
Right.

241
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,480
And like, you don't need to be married to have sex.

242
00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,600
And though it was like it was the hippie movement, right?

243
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:47,600
69, 70.

244
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:53,720
So I grew up in that cultural revolution, the Vietnam War, peace, love and hope.

245
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:55,240
And then it was peace, love and dope.

246
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,240
And then it was, it just, and I got, I strayed from the church.

247
00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,960
I had so much resentment towards the Catholic.

248
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,880
I told my sister Joyce about what happened.

249
00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:06,240
It just got swept under the rug.

250
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:11,000
So a couple of years ago when our attorney general here in PA, right after that movie

251
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,880
Limelight came out, put a list together and posted it online of all the priests that were

252
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:21,840
sexual predators, there was Pindell and they moved him so many times.

253
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:23,000
So it was shameful.

254
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,720
So I had this huge resentment.

255
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,640
And I also remember thinking, if God was so good, why would he let this guy who's supposed

256
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,000
to be the next best thing to God put his hands on me like that?

257
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,680
So I said a few cuss words and said, I'm not going back and God, if you're so good.

258
00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:42,720
But I always was shown faith by my mother who went through so much hardship with her

259
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,800
brothers dying early and her youngest brother.

260
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:51,600
They said it was a heart attack, but he was involved with some things and there were whispers

261
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:52,800
that he was murdered.

262
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,800
And like she lost four of her siblings in a very short period of time.

263
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,520
She was the second oldest of those eight.

264
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:04,640
And I'll never forget coming in and she was sitting in her little prayer corner with her

265
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:05,640
Bible.

266
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:11,280
And I was at that time just full blown into criminal activities and drug dealing.

267
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,160
I was about 15, 16 years old.

268
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,240
What kind of criminal activities other than the drug dealing?

269
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:22,640
Stealing cars, burglary, robbing pharmacies, trying to make an impression for the older

270
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,080
guys above me.

271
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,120
They call it paying up and stuff like that.

272
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,600
So you were seeking approval from an outside source from God?

273
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:30,600
Absolutely.

274
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:31,600
Absolutely.

275
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:37,560
Even though I knew I was loved and encouraged and prayed for by my parents, I guess it's

276
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,920
the childhood trauma thing that I never had really good self-esteem.

277
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,880
I really felt different from a very early age.

278
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:50,840
And then the thing with Pindal just accelerated at it was like the catalyst that had me getting

279
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:51,840
high.

280
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,840
I remember being down in the woods, 10, 11 years old, smoking weed and drinking.

281
00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:04,080
I stole all the Sacramento wine and all the unblessed hosts.

282
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:08,200
It was a rebellious state, but also it was attention seeking.

283
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:12,600
And I started to do crazy things so people would take notice of me.

284
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,880
Not just in criminal, but Point State Park, right?

285
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,760
They had a bridge down there, Fort Duke Game Bridge.

286
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,680
It was called the Bridge to Nowhere because it wasn't completed.

287
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,520
And it was the one leading over to the stadium at the Time 3 River Stadium.

288
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,920
So living right up over the hill in West Dancraft and Heights area, we built cars and swings

289
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:29,920
under them.

290
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:30,920
We used to swim in a river.

291
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,360
And then I started making bets about swimming across the river, which I did.

292
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,520
Now this is 12, 13 years old.

293
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:42,080
So we used to all cut school and we used to go to pirate games in early spring.

294
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:46,480
And when they opened up the Bridge to Nowhere, the Fort Duke Game Bridge, all these people

295
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,040
were coming across.

296
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,400
And I was like the class clown in the Daredevil.

297
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,400
I was very much an adrenaline junkie.

298
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,640
I used to love it, you know, when people would say, Sam's crazy, right?

299
00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,280
And that mindset went on even into my criminal days.

300
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,480
It's because you were in love with the reaction of people liking you.

301
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:04,480
Right.

302
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:05,480
Absolutely.

303
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,840
And I also could use violence to intimidate and manipulate people to do the things that

304
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:11,400
I wanted them to do.

305
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:17,400
So anyhow, my buddy stands, we'll just call him stands for now, and Mark P for anonymity

306
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,600
sake, we were all getting high together.

307
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,160
And there was, we had, like there was an older Heights gang from Craft and Heights.

308
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:24,520
They drove Harleys.

309
00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:26,760
They had leather jackets and carry guns.

310
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,480
We were the mini Heights gang.

311
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:33,440
We had mini bikes and blue jean jackets and we had CO2 pellet pistols.

312
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:38,600
But in one of the burglaries, we confiscated a bunch of guns and I took the guns.

313
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,480
And then the youth squad got involved, you and our authorities got involved.

314
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,520
They wanted the weapons back because I started carrying a gun at a very young age, 13 years

315
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,400
old, and it was stolen.

316
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,280
So anyhow, here we are on this bridge and all these people were coming back from three

317
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:56,080
river stadium and we used to person swing off the catwalks underneath it.

318
00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,400
And I said, I could dive off this bridge.

319
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,720
And my one buddy standing there was five bucks as you can't.

320
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:04,720
And I said, well, it's got to be more than five bucks.

321
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,120
Let's ask these people coming across the bridge.

322
00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:10,880
So we started taking bets and I think we collected about 150 bucks.

323
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:16,320
I stripped on into my underwear, put a big cigar in my mouth and I dove off the bridge

324
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:17,320
off the blue light.

325
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,800
I climbed over the railing and by that time there was a huge crowd of people.

326
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:25,280
And then I swam out and we took that money and we bought drugs and we got high for a

327
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:26,280
couple of days.

328
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:27,920
So I started doing that all summer.

329
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:33,040
I dove off every bridge downtown except for the Liberty Bridge and the McKees Rocks Bridge.

330
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:34,040
I hit them all.

331
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,200
And I don't say that boastfully.

332
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,000
It was probably the most stupid thing to do.

333
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:42,120
But when I look back at it, I know God had his hand of care and protection over my life.

334
00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:47,440
Because my last dive, I think I was like 20 years old, we're in a bar, these cliff divers

335
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:48,440
were watching.

336
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:49,440
It wasn't ESPN.

337
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,800
It was, I don't know, one of the sports channels at the time and they had the cliff divers

338
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,320
down in Mexico diving off these cliffs.

339
00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:00,360
And the guy who owned the bar, he shut it at 2 a.m. because the bar was closed and then

340
00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:03,280
we're all sitting there in snorkeling cocaine and drinking.

341
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:04,760
And his name was Scotty.

342
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:05,960
And I said, be me up Scotty.

343
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,360
And I'm like, look, I can do that.

344
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:09,440
I can dive off those cliffs.

345
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,480
And my one buddy said to me, no, you can't.

346
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,560
I said, I dove off every bridge downtown.

347
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,840
He goes, here's $2,000.

348
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,520
I didn't hear you mention the West End Bridge.

349
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,400
So we drove down there at three o'clock in the morning.

350
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,960
I dove off the West End Bridge.

351
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:30,160
But I almost died because I hit a bunch of stuff that was like floating in the water,

352
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:31,880
like twigs and branches.

353
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:33,840
And I never did a night dive.

354
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,040
So I really couldn't judge the water coming up.

355
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:37,240
Plus I was really loaded.

356
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,120
I was on like a two day run.

357
00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:40,320
So I broke some ribs.

358
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,080
And that wasn't the real problem.

359
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:46,280
The real problem was getting out where the two rivers meet there.

360
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:51,040
There's a big like sandbar or sludge bar where they park the barges.

361
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,640
So it was like that swampy, mucky mud.

362
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:58,080
And I couldn't like regular swim or back pedal float.

363
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,600
And I couldn't walk out because it was like quick sand.

364
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,720
So I was losing my breath and running out of gas.

365
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,160
And I had some broken ribs.

366
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,000
So my breathing was shallow because it hurt so bad.

367
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,520
And I started praying.

368
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:16,600
And that's like a lot of times when I'd get into a jam, a gunfight, whatever, because

369
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,560
I have been shot and stabbed and hitting the head with a bat and hitting the face with

370
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:20,560
a pry bar.

371
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,520
And again, I just kept doing what I was doing because I minimized everything.

372
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,320
And I would say it's just a rough patch.

373
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:27,840
It comes with the territory.

374
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:29,040
You know what I mean?

375
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:30,600
But that I'll never forget that night.

376
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,240
And we got out, I got out and my buddies were like, cheer me on.

377
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,440
There were four guys with me and my buddy Jimmy's van.

378
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:41,360
And I went and took that 2000 bucks and we got high for a couple of days.

379
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:44,160
So the attention seeking was huge.

380
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,800
Another thing that might be taken into consideration is the current for the rivers.

381
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,280
Like, you don't know what you're going to get when you jump in there.

382
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,640
Oh, I've had a kick out of some undercurrents.

383
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:54,640
Oh, yeah.

384
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,880
A little whirlpools, right?

385
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,920
Swimming across at the first time.

386
00:19:58,920 --> 00:19:59,920
I mean, I was kicking.

387
00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:01,480
And again, I was praying.

388
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:02,480
You know, okay.

389
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:03,960
Let me get through this.

390
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:04,960
You know what I mean?

391
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,280
Like, did you ever go to God when you weren't in trouble?

392
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:08,280
No.

393
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:09,280
Since you left?

394
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:10,280
Nope.

395
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,880
When I left home, I turned 16 January 13th.

396
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,880
And I was ahead of myself in school because I had some intellect.

397
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,720
God had given me some good brains and they did that testing, you know, where they moved

398
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:27,240
me from, they just put me right into first grade because of my birthday instead of kindergarten.

399
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,440
So I excelled really well in school.

400
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:34,400
Like even like in sixth, seventh grade, when I started to get rebellious and soap the windows

401
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:40,280
of the school and mock God and say, you know, and mock the nuns and priests and like they

402
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:41,280
would beat me up.

403
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,400
I mean, literally I got punched in the nose by them.

404
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:49,280
I got a lot of swats and like the swats hurt, but I'd look at Sister Mary and go, that didn't

405
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:50,280
hurt.

406
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:51,280
You know what I mean?

407
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,360
Like, meanwhile my bum was on fire, right?

408
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:54,920
And I needed that discipline.

409
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:59,240
In fact, my parents at one time discussed because the juvenile authorities were showing up at

410
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:04,200
my house so often because kids were telling on me and guys from our little crew were getting

411
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,320
busted and saying, Sammy's the ringleader.

412
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:07,320
He did it.

413
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:08,800
You know, they would come and question.

414
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:09,800
They wanted the guns.

415
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:15,840
And my dad up until he went home to the Lord 21 years ago, we used to laugh about this.

416
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,000
We're sitting in a living room.

417
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,640
These detectives really wanted these guns back from this house we brought.

418
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:21,640
And I kept lying.

419
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,280
I kept saying, I don't have any guns.

420
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:24,280
I don't know what you're talking about.

421
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,600
Yeah, we were in there, but we didn't take the guns.

422
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:27,600
We took the coins.

423
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:28,600
We took this.

424
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,680
We took that, but we didn't take the guns because one of the guys in our crew got really

425
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,440
drunk because we found like 20 cases of alcohol in the attic.

426
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,680
He was a truck driver and all this Canadian mist and we took all that out.

427
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,600
So, he was on his mini bike and he wrecked on Stratmore and the police came and said,

428
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:44,600
where'd you get the booze?

429
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:45,600
Oh, we robbed that house.

430
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:46,600
Okay.

431
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:47,600
So, yeah.

432
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:54,840
So, here they were in my living room and I'm lying right to their face.

433
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:56,320
Like I was so dishonest.

434
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,760
I mean, most of all, I lied to myself, but I'm saying, Mom, Dad, I don't have the guns.

435
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,760
Meanwhile, I had a stash in the rafters in the basement.

436
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,240
You know, there's no way I was giving up these guns.

437
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,040
I said, the one cop says to me, will you take a lie detector's test?

438
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,920
And I said, absolutely, I'll take a lie detector's test.

439
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:13,720
And my dad goes, give them the guns.

440
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:14,920
And I said, I don't have them.

441
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,120
So, they left.

442
00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:18,800
They never gave me a lie detector's test.

443
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:24,840
The plea deal was, I was 14 when this happened and the plea deal was that we were to pay

444
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:29,240
everyone back restitution because what happened was some of the older Heights gang found out

445
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,680
that this house was empty, that people were on vacation.

446
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,960
It was very kind of sinister because we were paper boys.

447
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,640
We would deliver these papers and our customers would say, hey, we're going on vacation for

448
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:41,640
two weeks.

449
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:42,640
Don't deliver the paper.

450
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,680
Well, it started out very innocently, like going in there and just smoking weed, maybe

451
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:46,680
drinking our booze.

452
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,240
Actually, we started taking our valuables and then we thought, hey, this is a good idea.

453
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,160
Every time they tell us we're going on vacation, we should rob them.

454
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:59,640
And a lot of these people, I cut their grass for money and did chores for them and delivered

455
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,320
them and it hurt.

456
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,240
My father, I always worked.

457
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:04,480
I worked in pizza shops.

458
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,920
I scooped Italian ice balls up at Pizza Italian Ice in the Hill District.

459
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,440
I always worked bus, boy, dishwasher, all these things.

460
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:12,440
I worked really hard.

461
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:18,080
All summer, we had to pay 1600 a piece back to this one home, three homeowners, the ones

462
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,080
that we all busted for.

463
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,120
And that's a lot of cheddar back in the 60s.

464
00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:24,760
1972 or 73 it was.

465
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:25,760
That's a lot.

466
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:26,760
That's a lot.

467
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:27,760
It's a lot.

468
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:28,760
It's a new car, isn't it?

469
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:29,760
Yeah, exactly.

470
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,840
I think my dad paid $6,000 for our house, right?

471
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,880
So I had this money at the end of the summer and I gave it to my dad and he goes, oh no,

472
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,120
I'm not giving it to him.

473
00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:41,160
You got to go make that amends yourself and you got to put this money in their hand.

474
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,160
That was really hard.

475
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,680
And that was the last time I robbed houses.

476
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,080
That was the last time I stole.

477
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,720
I found I could make more money selling drugs.

478
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,080
What age did you stop robbing houses?

479
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,080
14.

480
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,080
Okay.

481
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,160
And I went more towards selling drugs.

482
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,440
You mentioned that you were like in the kiddie version of the gang in town.

483
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:58,440
Right.

484
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:03,000
And you moved on so you eventually took a seat at the bigger table with the bigger kids

485
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,000
and the adults.

486
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,000
Right.

487
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,000
Right.

488
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,640
So I left home when I was 16 because I always wanted to go to the source, right?

489
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:10,640
That was just who I was.

490
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:11,640
That's how I thought.

491
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,600
Why would I buy from this guy when he's buying from another guy?

492
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:15,600
So I got to find out.

493
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:21,240
So when I found out that most of the cocaine in Pittsburgh was coming from Miami in South

494
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,400
Florida, I turned 16 in January 13.

495
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:30,040
I had a little couple shoeboxes for money and what kind of expanded my territory in

496
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,600
that criminal activity was, there was a guy from Vietnam.

497
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,840
Vietnam vet had the same birthday as me and I won't mention his name, but he moved in

498
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:41,200
right beside my parents and there was a big stone house left of my parents and there were

499
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,200
two apartments.

500
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,200
He lived in a top apartment and I made friends with him.

501
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,840
Well, he had connections from all over the world and he actually taught me a lot about

502
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:51,840
drug dealing.

503
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,040
You know, get the triple beam and do this and do that.

504
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,080
So at 15 years old, I had fake ID saying I was 18 because I actually liked to drink

505
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,080
in the bars and it was really easy to get fake ID back then.

506
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:09,200
So he would fly me to Fort Lauderdale one way and I would drive a GTO or a loaded down

507
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:14,600
car full marijuana back, you know, 300, 400 pounds and then he would front me, meaning

508
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:20,920
give me 50 or 60 pounds upfront that I started to distribute to all the different high schools,

509
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,120
five pounds here, five pounds here, Keystone Oaks, Canavan, Langley, Shunley, you know,

510
00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:28,800
and then I used the older kids if someone didn't pay me to collect.

511
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,240
So I started my own little distribution at 15.

512
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,400
At 16, I decided, well, I'm going to go to Florida myself and there was a lot of things

513
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,000
going on in my personal life.

514
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:43,520
I had the juvenile authorities constantly pulling me over and just, they'd see me walking

515
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,040
down Green Street Road, the police would pull over and take me in and question me.

516
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,480
I had a girlfriend.

517
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:49,800
We used to call it going steady.

518
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:54,920
We had some tissues and it was a guy, Father Kirk at Canavan who put his hands on me and

519
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,000
I punched him in the shoulder and I got in trouble for that.

520
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,880
So I had all this stuff going on.

521
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:01,600
I just bought a one way plane ticket.

522
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:06,920
I was working at the Marriott as a busboy and then I went into the kitchen and I took

523
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,560
a one way ticket there and within a week I slept under a peer the first night and I

524
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:16,640
had my luggage and Howard Johnson's right on Lauderdale ruminate there and I got a newspaper

525
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:21,480
out and I had a lot of money and I went and got an apartment with a 39 year old Puerto

526
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,480
Rican named Philo Villas and within a week I was working at the Rain Dancer's Sorrowing

527
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:26,480
Pit.

528
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,160
I forged my parents' signature and started because I wanted to finish my school year

529
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,000
and went to Lauderdale High School.

530
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:38,680
So I worked, sold drugs and went to school and I did that for several months but I was

531
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,880
so angry like I kind of blamed my parents for this whole thing with Pindell and all the

532
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,760
fighting that went on and all this stuff in my home even though I knew they loved me they

533
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:51,400
would bicker all the time and I just hated it like I never called them and told them

534
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:52,800
where I was.

535
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:59,120
So I met some people there that had connections in Columbia and some of my neighbors had decided

536
00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:00,840
we wanted to go to the source.

537
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:08,000
So we started flying to Columbia and smuggled the drug from Bogota and that is from like

538
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:15,000
75, 76 to 1980 I felt like I was in the movie The Godfather and everything was coming to

539
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,000
play right.

540
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:22,760
I had a lot of money, a nice girlfriend, I was a womanizer though, a couple girlfriends,

541
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,200
had a condo for Lauderdale.

542
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:32,240
I had all the material possessions and I was really getting high a lot like addictively

543
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,840
but it didn't feel like it because I had a safe full of drugs and money and I was being

544
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:43,800
noticed and that's really what I wanted like to have like to be noticed as a person of

545
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:44,800
someone of authority.

546
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,920
You know what I mean?

547
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:53,640
What I didn't know until I got sober and saved was I was just a fearful broken little boy

548
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:59,760
trying to gain approval and attention from the world instead of knowing who I was in

549
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,280
Jesus Christ.

550
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:07,120
And I'm so grateful every day because there were things that I did in that process of

551
00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:12,240
distribution and smuggling and all that to try and impress people.

552
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:17,280
Coming from a background of my mother who was a born again believer, my father who knew

553
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:22,200
Jesus, he was a gambler and a drinker and that's what created a lot of fighting in our

554
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,240
home but he still loved the Lord.

555
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,760
You know he had his vices and he was a brilliant guy and a finance officer and he used to

556
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:29,960
teach me well, right?

557
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,320
He used to say, don't you dare get involved with these guys?

558
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,720
I might gamble in their joints but I earn an honest living.

559
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,040
You're smarter than that.

560
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:40,640
Quit running with gangsters.

561
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:41,640
Come home.

562
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:42,640
I love you.

563
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,960
As I mentioned the Prodigal Son the first time I read that in 1990, I forget sober and

564
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:47,960
saved.

565
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,920
I had just seen my dad's image in my mind and I started weeping tears of joy because

566
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,120
it reminded me of my father and mother's love.

567
00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:00,480
But I do know when I did come back and finish my senior year that I couldn't live there

568
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:06,560
so I got an apartment at 17 years old and finished my senior year and they still loved

569
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,280
me and they encouraged me to get an honest job.

570
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:11,720
I always had an honest job.

571
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,760
I had a good work ethic but my side hustle became my main hustle which became a criminal

572
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:17,760
activity.

573
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,600
Well sure, it made more money and it gave you the recognition that you were looking

574
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:22,600
for.

575
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,600
But I always had a conscience.

576
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,200
The being brought up that way I knew right from wrong.

577
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:35,520
So when there'd be a shootout or something that would happen out of my being high and

578
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,720
full of rage because I had a rage issue too.

579
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,280
I didn't process anger well.

580
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:46,360
I went right from zero to rage, to physical violence, to physical harm and it was kind

581
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,480
of a defense mechanism, right?

582
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:53,200
What I know today and all my studies and all that and being educated about addiction and

583
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:59,200
about soaked in the word is like usually anger is usually a secondary emotion to fear.

584
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,120
I would say most of the times, right?

585
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,800
It's at the fight, flight or freeze kind of thing.

586
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,040
I fought, you know, except when the police were involved, I fled.

587
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,040
That's just good sense.

588
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,040
That's just good sense.

589
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:15,120
Well yeah and another thing that had me kind of upside down was the Vietnam War and then

590
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:20,840
I was sound drugs to a lot of different police officers and DA's and judges and I seen the

591
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,040
corruption there.

592
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,480
So I wasn't anti-police.

593
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,720
I just thought, okay, it's just a joke, right?

594
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:31,120
I mean, because they really were the enemy to me because of what I was doing.

595
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:36,200
But when I got sober and saved in 1990, man, I look back at how God had his hand of care

596
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,680
and protection over me and I love what they do and I realized they were just doing their

597
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,600
job chasing me down, you know what I mean?

598
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:48,440
And throw me in jail and I used to want to blame everyone and not be it.

599
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,720
You talked about accountability this morning at the men's breakfast.

600
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:52,720
I had none.

601
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,720
I blamed everybody and everything.

602
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,440
If you knew what I'd been through, you'd be like me too.

603
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,920
I justified everything.

604
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:06,320
And again, so much chaos and so much trauma that like shootings and stabbings and just

605
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:07,720
crazy things.

606
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,520
Car wrecks, I won't say I shouldn't be alive because I know God had a plan for me, but

607
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:16,360
like there were overdoses and slip wrists, okay?

608
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,640
Like I shouldn't be here from the natural looking.

609
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:27,000
So when you were 11 and you were molested, then you turned to drugs as a coping mechanism

610
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:32,040
to get over the trauma, the hurt, the pain, the mixed feelings of why this is happening

611
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:33,040
to me.

612
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,040
What did I do?

613
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:35,040
Right.

614
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:40,040
Would it be safe to assume that from that point when you continued to use drugs after

615
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:46,120
certain things, you know, after a firefight, after selling drugs to kids in a school that

616
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:50,000
you were trying to drown out the Holy Spirit convicting you?

617
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:51,000
Absolutely.

618
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,000
Absolutely.

619
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,280
Because I had a conscience and I poured booze and drugs on it for it to go away, to numb

620
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:57,280
it.

621
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,840
And that is exactly what I was doing.

622
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,040
But what happened was I became physically addicted, didn't know it, right?

623
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:10,760
So yes, to that question, it was always I had a conscience and I know that was the Holy

624
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,720
Spirit because I believed in Jesus.

625
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:19,480
It's a people, when I came into AA and I believe AA is divinely inspired, God put some amazing

626
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:20,480
people on my path.

627
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,760
They were born again believers.

628
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,440
And I'll never forget, we used to, I had a lot of money.

629
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,920
So I'd rent a van and would follow the Rolling Stones concert.

630
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,320
We were like roadies or yuppies or what do they call them, roadies?

631
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:32,320
That's all.

632
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,320
Yeah.

633
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:34,320
So when they'd come, they'd never come to Pittsburgh.

634
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:35,800
They would always go to Cleveland, Buffalo.

635
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,240
So I'd get a van, tear the seats out of it, throw some mattresses and grab a bunch of

636
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,380
our crew and would go follow them around with a big bag of Coke and weed and whatever.

637
00:32:43,380 --> 00:32:49,080
So one of them, I ended up blacked out in this hotel and they took the van, my buddies,

638
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,040
really good friends and left me there.

639
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,600
They're all good and cold.

640
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,400
They left me there to go to the next concert.

641
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,160
So here I am hitchhiking on the Ohio Turnpike.

642
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,960
I don't know, I was like 16 or 17, something like that.

643
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:04,960
Maybe 18, I don't know.

644
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,240
It was when I came back from Florida and this trucker picks me up.

645
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,400
It's pouring down rain and I get in this cab and like he's got a cross hanging from the

646
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:17,720
mirror and he's got gospel music on and I'm like, hey, thanks for picking me up.

647
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,840
We start chit-chat and I told him what happened and he goes, yeah, those are really good

648
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:21,840
friends that leave you at that.

649
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,720
I said, well, he probably tried to wake me.

650
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,240
I was really loaded and he goes, so what do you know about Jesus?

651
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:28,240
Right?

652
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:33,400
And I'm like, well, I know there's a picture of him in my living room and I'm Catholic.

653
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:34,400
That's how I answered that.

654
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:35,400
I'm Catholic.

655
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,120
And he goes, but do you know Jesus?

656
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,320
And I said, well, yeah, I told you there's a picture of him, right?

657
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,000
I said, my mom claims she knows him really good, but I don't know.

658
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,000
He goes, would you like to?

659
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,000
And I said, well, why not?

660
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:55,640
Now I can tell you, I remember this conversation clearly because the Holy Spirit was there.

661
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,520
Part of me didn't want to say this in his prayer because I thought he might tell me

662
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:01,520
to get out.

663
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,840
That was my own insecurities and my own fears, but the other part of me, like when he'd shift

664
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,160
gears, I remember he looked over to me and he had a big smile and there was something

665
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:13,080
in this guy's eyes and I could hear my dad saying the eyes are when they said, look,

666
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,080
I just got chosen.

667
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:16,080
Thank you, Lord.

668
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,280
So I said, yeah, to Jesus, right?

669
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:26,040
And he put his hand on me and he prayed on me and he was going, I don't know, he wasn't

670
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:31,840
going into the city of Pittsburgh, but he got off to Cranberry exit, Ohio to PA Turnpike,

671
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:36,080
to Cranberry exit and he took me all the way to downtown Pittsburgh and then went out to,

672
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,000
he said he could pick up the Turnpike again in Monroeville.

673
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,520
I held on to that track he gave me.

674
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:42,760
I still have it.

675
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,080
It's in my attic and it was a simple track.

676
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:50,960
Like I was explaining to David when you guys showed up on the phone and it had stickman

677
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:56,720
and it had an arrow and it had Father God, Jesus on a cross at the top of the cross was

678
00:34:56,720 --> 00:35:00,080
an arrow and it had me at the bottom, like a stickman.

679
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,320
And he explained it to me and there was a prayer in there, Romans 10, 10 was in there.

680
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:11,120
Like I even continued into that lifestyle that I had, but I held that and when I got

681
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:16,080
out of a life of crime and my sister and my father came over to one of my houses, it was

682
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,240
a stash house and my sister said, you're moving in with me.

683
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:25,680
You need to think about a new career and it was just, I still had that in my jewelry box

684
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:30,960
on my dresser and I remember I opened the dental lab with her support when I got out

685
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:37,720
of school in 82 in her basement and on the bulletin board, I stuck that track above my

686
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:39,360
little desk down there.

687
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,200
And then when we moved out here, I put it in a box and I know I have it in the attic.

688
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:50,120
But like that was the first time that I really spoke that I believed that Jesus was the Son

689
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:57,000
of God, that he died and he was sacrificed as a one-time payment for my sin, a one-time

690
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,440
sacrifice for my sin.

691
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,480
And then I went back to my lifestyle.

692
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:07,000
So and the reason I hung on to that was a couple months later, it would have been 76

693
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:12,160
tour, out of an act of kindness, I had a pickup truck, I was at adrenaline junkie, right?

694
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,800
I used to race motorcycles, skydive, scuba dive, water ski, snow ski, I had all the money

695
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,920
for all the toys, so I did all those things.

696
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,880
So were you really an adrenaline junkie or was there a part of you that wanted it to

697
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,280
have fun until the moment it killed you?

698
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:26,280
Both.

699
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:31,000
It was both and I remember we used to have keg parties, Tommy Hyde Kano in high school

700
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,400
and I pulled out on the main street in Carnegie right before Pittsburgh fence and I had a couple

701
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,160
guys in the bed of my truck and a couple guys in the cab.

702
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,440
I wasn't too loaded because I was driving and I didn't really want to and it was like

703
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:47,200
right before 4th of July, I had tickets for the Winter Olympics in Canada.

704
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,480
I had boxing, ring side boxing seats and stuff like that.

705
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:55,200
And there was a car behind me flicking his lights and I'm thinking, well this guy needs

706
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:56,200
direction.

707
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:57,200
So I pulled over.

708
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,680
What I didn't know, the guys in the back were flipping them off and shooting bottle

709
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:01,680
rockets.

710
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,560
So this dude gets out.

711
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,720
He's a big dude like 6'3".

712
00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:09,920
And he has a pry bar stashed behind his leg and I'm winding down my window and I'm like,

713
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,080
yeah, well you go on bro.

714
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:16,280
And he said, I'm a fin honky mother and he hit me as hard as he could.

715
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:22,560
Luckily the pry bar hit the top of the door frame and went in and smashed my face.

716
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,680
Broke my skull, broke my orbital socket, tore my nose pretty much all the way to the left

717
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,280
of my face.

718
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:35,760
Bumped my maxilla and I remember trying to put it in gear to ram his car and I fell out

719
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:36,760
of the truck.

720
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,560
Here's divine providence, right?

721
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,360
Here's the hand of God.

722
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:45,200
A woman sitting on her French porch shot and came over and did some pressure points so

723
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:46,680
I wouldn't bleed out.

724
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,400
The ambulance came and took me to St. Clair Hospital.

725
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,920
This was in July of 1976.

726
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,560
And they looked at me and said, this we can't handle this guy.

727
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:55,560
He's mangled.

728
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,260
You need to get him over to I and Air Hospital which is now Presby.

729
00:37:59,260 --> 00:38:01,040
So they life flighted me there.

730
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:07,000
While I'm in emergency surgery, there's a oral surgeon in there, there's plastic surgeon

731
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,000
in there.

732
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:14,520
They're working on me and a guy named Dr. Dennis Hurwitz, his surgical assistant, Rosemary,

733
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,080
were still friends to this day.

734
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,480
I died on that operating table.

735
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:19,480
Okay?

736
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:24,080
Now back then a crash cart was as big as this table that we're sitting in front of, right?

737
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,040
And I had an out of body experience.

738
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:33,560
And I'm above my body seeing that thing go, you know, the flat line thing.

739
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:39,040
And I'm watching this surgical team scamper to get the crash cart to paddle me back.

740
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:40,720
And she knocked the surgical tray over.

741
00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:43,840
And I remember Dr. Hurwitz saying, leave it.

742
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:49,960
And in a blink, I was awake, which I found out was 28 hours later I was in a coma.

743
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,480
And I spent a lot of time getting my face rebuilt.

744
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,840
And I'm not always been this handsome.

745
00:38:54,840 --> 00:39:00,760
Dr. Hurwitz did that, what they did tissue expanders and dermabrasion, they hid the scars

746
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,400
like in my forehead and my eyebrow and between my nose.

747
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:04,400
Yeah.

748
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,600
They did a wonderful, I had a big Frankenstein's car across my face.

749
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:13,640
But anyhow, what I remembered about that was I felt the love of God.

750
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:18,320
It was like I was in this soft light, like many people have what are called near death

751
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:19,320
experiences.

752
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,200
And I've connected with many and we have similar stories.

753
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:23,320
And I read a lot about it.

754
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:28,240
My sister Joyce, believe me, Rosemary, believe me, she was a born again believer.

755
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:31,760
And my sister Joyce gave me this book, Life After Life.

756
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,080
And I read a lot of these stories.

757
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:39,040
And one of the things that the common denominator of people that are brought back in that era,

758
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:46,920
late 70s, or anytime now that I talk to people, this author was an oncology nurse in a terminal

759
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:47,920
unit.

760
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:52,200
And so then we resuscitate these patients and she would question them and take surveys

761
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,160
and then she mapped everything out.

762
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:59,360
The common denominator that every single one of them had was concern for others.

763
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,720
Think about what Jesus said, two commands I give, right?

764
00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:07,920
Love the Lord, you God, it's all your heart, mind, soul and strength.

765
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,920
And love others as I have loved you.

766
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:12,240
Love one another.

767
00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:15,880
All spiritual laws hinge on these two.

768
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,760
And I just felt this like peace that I can't even put into words.

769
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,160
And then boom, I was awake.

770
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,720
And I had the hoses and all that all over me.

771
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:29,520
And the guy that hit me, I knew some people that tracked his, some of the guys that were

772
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,800
with me, found out who he was.

773
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:36,600
And when I woke up, there were some guys in my room who told me he had so and so and like

774
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:42,080
he got kicked out of the army and he like was, he beat up his white officer, he beat

775
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,960
up his white teacher at Langley and blah, blah, blah.

776
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,680
I felt he was forgiven.

777
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,200
I let it go.

778
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,840
Now normally prior to that experience, I would have been, let's whack this dude out.

779
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,480
Let's teach him a lesson or at least have him walk with a limp for the rest of his life.

780
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,280
Because I didn't do nothing to him and I didn't know the guys in the back of the truck.

781
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,320
Well, here what happened once again, you're talking about conscious, right?

782
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:05,400
Holy spirit.

783
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,240
I had completely been okay with it.

784
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:11,200
I was in full acceptance of what happened and I knew that I was going to be healed.

785
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,000
My life was going to be changed.

786
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:17,840
About two days later, I get a get well card with his obituary in it.

787
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:24,600
Some of those guys took care of it and I remember crying and thinking, what kind of life am

788
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:25,600
I living?

789
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:31,160
Well, one thing led to another and when I got out, the world again pulled me back and

790
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:35,200
I went on for another three or four years doing what I did.

791
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:40,640
But in 1980, the change came to a point where I no longer wanted to do that.

792
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:46,560
My dad helped me get out of what I was into because I knew a lot of things and some people

793
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,840
could have very easily had me killed and they got blown up in a car in Philadelphia.

794
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:51,840
So it was all good.

795
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:56,800
I was free and I went and got this trade, but I was still getting high.

796
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:04,040
So my dental technology skills and my education, I wouldn't say obsessed, but that's where

797
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,000
I was looking for approval now.

798
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,280
I wanted to be the best at whatever I did and I got really good at what I did.

799
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:17,760
And by 1986, 1985, I was teaching at Pitt Dental School in Plant Technology and I met

800
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:18,760
my wife there.

801
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:23,080
And I was engaged at the time and living with it, my childhood sweetheart and my household

802
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:24,080
sweetheart.

803
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:29,440
And when my wife walked into my office and I looked into her eyes, my heart skipped a

804
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:35,360
beat and she had a crush on one of my students there and he was engaged and she didn't know

805
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:36,360
it.

806
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,400
So she brings her in and says, hey, Sam, don't you live by Amy Maske?

807
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,080
I'm like, oh yeah, I live right up the street.

808
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:43,600
Meanwhile, I live in the house.

809
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,360
He's like, can you give her a ride home?

810
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,240
I'm like, absolutely.

811
00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:52,760
So I took the long way home and I just opened up to her for some reason.

812
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:57,480
I just felt a need to just like, I didn't want her to meet my representative.

813
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,720
I wanted her to meet real Sam.

814
00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:00,720
No mask.

815
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:01,720
No mask, right?

816
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:02,880
No image.

817
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:04,160
This is who I am.

818
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:09,160
I was involved in a lot of type of, I call it disorganized crime, but I was involved in

819
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,360
a lot of things, but I'm no longer that person.

820
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,920
At that point, I was just kind of in the control mode of drinking.

821
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,480
I was drinking a lot and then smoking weed and snorting coke on weekends.

822
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,520
Like that, to me, that was clean living.

823
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:22,520
All right?

824
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:23,520
Compared to my past.

825
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:24,520
Miss Big Steps.

826
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,080
Big Steps, yeah.

827
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,800
So when I dropped her off, I rode down to my cousin Joanne.

828
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,920
She's about five or six years older than me and I've always loved Joanne and I always

829
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,200
used to go to her with like relationship problems and she had really good counsel and she's

830
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:38,640
just so, I love her.

831
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,880
She's full of love and light and I drove down to her house to tell her how excited I was.

832
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,200
I found this girl, God put this girl in my life.

833
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,640
Her name's Amy Mascaro and I'm going to marry her.

834
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:49,640
She says, what?

835
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:50,640
You met her today?

836
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:55,160
I mean, I drove right from Amy's house to my cousin Joanne's in Sheridan where my family

837
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:59,320
was, my mother's family was from and said, we're sitting on the porch, right?

838
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:00,320
We're drinking a beer.

839
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,120
I'm like, I met this girl, I'm going to marry her.

840
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,760
What about the other one?

841
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:06,760
What other one?

842
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,200
I said, I'm in love.

843
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:11,200
She said, how do you know?

844
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:12,600
I said, I just know.

845
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:17,040
Two years later in our wedding, Joanne came over to the wedding table and goes, remember

846
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:18,520
the night you came down to her?

847
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,520
I said, absolutely I do.

848
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:25,480
So my love for her was so profound and I was traveling at the time.

849
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:31,120
I got hired in the corporate world to do lectures on dental implants to both dentists and technicians

850
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,200
all over the country, all over the world basically.

851
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,240
And my ego got inflated again.

852
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:41,720
Anyhow, my love for her, I was still getting high and I was lying to her and I didn't want

853
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:43,800
to lie to my wife.

854
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:45,320
And this was before kids.

855
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:50,680
So in 1990, I said to her, I'm using drugs again, hard drugs.

856
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:51,680
I'm going to quit traveling.

857
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:52,880
I'm going to quit the corporate world.

858
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:57,360
I'm going to open a little business, take it from the basement to full time.

859
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,680
We had our honeymoon in Hawaii because I had frequent flyer points and it was pretty much

860
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,360
nothing to go there.

861
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,280
And I remembered that because I didn't get high on my honeymoon and we were there two

862
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:07,280
weeks.

863
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,000
I said, we're going to go there.

864
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:10,000
I'm going to sober up.

865
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:11,400
We're going to stay clean.

866
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:12,720
I'm going to open this business.

867
00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:15,240
I gave six months notice with my company.

868
00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:18,040
While I was there, I got drunk five days in.

869
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:19,160
King Kamehameha Day.

870
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:20,200
I wrecked the car.

871
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:24,920
It exploded the minute I got out of it because it was on fire and I went to jail.

872
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,160
So that's how I had to go to AA, right?

873
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,680
I pleaded bargain that I'd never go back to the state of Hawaii ever again.

874
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,040
I've been kicked out of a lot of places.

875
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,680
That was the first time I got kicked out of a state.

876
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:36,680
Off in the island.

877
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:37,680
Yeah.

878
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:38,880
A whole state.

879
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:39,880
Not just Maui, the whole state.

880
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:40,880
I could never go back.

881
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,080
I'm laughing, but that's not really funny.

882
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:43,080
But it was.

883
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,480
I mean, at the time it was sad, but like we laugh about it now.

884
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,320
If you can't laugh at yourself.

885
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:53,440
So I came back, that was in June of 1990 and I started going to AA and that's where God

886
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,520
put some people in my path.

887
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:56,520
And they took me in.

888
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,800
In the third step says we made a decision to turn our will and our life over to the care

889
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:01,800
of God.

890
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:06,360
And this guy, Eric McGrath and Terry Hanna were strong believers and they witnessed me

891
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,600
and I rededicated my life to Christ.

892
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,880
And I got plugged into a good Bible teaching church full gospel Carnegie and that pastor

893
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,520
David Morgan took me under his wing down there and showed me how to read that Bible over

894
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,240
there that's got four or 500,000 miles on it.

895
00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:22,240
Right.

896
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:23,240
Not more.

897
00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:28,720
And I got into small Bible studies and small groups and then he brought this Hell's Angel

898
00:46:28,720 --> 00:46:33,760
guy in there from Texas who was reformed and he had a prison ministry and they had the

899
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,200
table in the lobby and I got hooked up with him and I got plugged into prison fellowship

900
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:38,720
and I haven't stopped since.

901
00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:42,000
So you do life recovery at South Hills Assembly.

902
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,000
Yes.

903
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:49,080
And your experience with your own addiction instrumental and leading others away from

904
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:50,080
it?

905
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:51,080
Yes.

906
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:52,080
Absolutely.

907
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:53,080
Who better?

908
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:54,080
Oh, no, absolutely.

909
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,280
I mean, like when you think about like some of the command and say, yeah, I found myself

910
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,560
in an abandoned house.

911
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:00,560
I call them abandoned house.

912
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:01,920
We joke a little bit, right?

913
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:03,560
I mean, it's life or death, right?

914
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,560
And I go, yeah, my addiction took me to an abandoned home in a shooting gallery in the

915
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:12,800
Hill District, you know, with no running water, going to the bathroom in a five gallon bucket,

916
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,840
and a guy overdosed and we were stepping over him because it was all about the chemical.

917
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:18,160
That's how powerful addiction is.

918
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,680
And I believe Satan uses addiction to divide families, right?

919
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,080
We were talking about that this morning, right?

920
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:25,520
To what did Jesus say?

921
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:31,040
He said that the thief comes to do only three things, only three things, right?

922
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:32,040
Still kill and destroy.

923
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:36,560
And Jesus said, I have come that you may have life and have life more abundant.

924
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,640
Now, I've had a lot of surgeries.

925
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:40,000
I've had divine healings.

926
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:46,560
I've had two relapses where I've overdosed, been narcan back, and it's only by the grace

927
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,680
of God that I'm still here.

928
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:53,760
So when these young ones come in and even the older ones and they'll say, I can't stop,

929
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:58,440
I'm using against my will, I want to stop, we have resources for them, we pray over them,

930
00:47:58,440 --> 00:47:59,640
we get them into the steps.

931
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:04,800
I believe the 12 step fellowships are divinely inspired by Bill W. and Dr. Bob.

932
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,080
And it's a process of sanctification.

933
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:12,080
Really only less than 1% of them get that profound spiritual experience like Pastor

934
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,160
Rick in Allegheny County Jail.

935
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:18,320
God took the obsession and he fell in love with God and he hasn't ever picked up sins.

936
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:19,320
That's not the normal.

937
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:20,920
No, that's what I expected.

938
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:21,920
Yeah.

939
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:22,920
I didn't get that.

940
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:23,920
I was disappointed.

941
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:24,920
Right.

942
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:25,920
You mentioned that this morning.

943
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:26,920
I did too.

944
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,880
Like when I got water baptized on at full gospel, David Baptist, I'm thinking, okay, I'm going

945
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:31,680
to have sunshine shooting out of my rear end.

946
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:33,480
Everything's going to be great.

947
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:34,920
It wasn't that.

948
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,600
I came under attack.

949
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:37,600
Yes.

950
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,600
I mean, serious attack.

951
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:45,000
But I had people around me and pastors in a support group of born again believers.

952
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:49,280
And like you said, just that one person, we call him a sponsor in AA.

953
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:53,720
I had them around me and my wife, she said, I'm not going to let the devil destroy our

954
00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:54,720
family.

955
00:48:54,720 --> 00:48:58,560
She would lay hands on me and pray over me and we would read the word together.

956
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:05,120
There's nothing better in my life than getting up in the morning and praying with my wife.

957
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:06,840
Pray with my wife for our day.

958
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,000
We prayed over our kids, our two sons.

959
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,480
I mean, prayer is so powerful.

960
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,400
I didn't know how to pray when I came in.

961
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,360
I had forgotten all the repetitious Hail Mary, our father things, right?

962
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:18,360
Because it didn't make sense.

963
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:19,360
Yeah.

964
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,440
And I looked at prayer as punishment.

965
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:26,240
Like I said, you know, I'd go, I'd make up lies in the confessional as a young kid, right?

966
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:31,480
I was a homeless priest, I did this, I touched myself in an unpure manner and I lied 10 times.

967
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:32,960
I don't know, I made them up.

968
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,360
And it's a 50 Hail Marys and 50 Our Fathers.

969
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:36,360
That's your penitent.

970
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:37,360
And then you didn't do it anyway?

971
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:38,360
Well, I did.

972
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,400
At first, and then I thought, he will never know.

973
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:46,320
And then again, I started at a really young age being dishonest, okay?

974
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,800
And mostly towards the end, it was with myself.

975
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,560
Like this is just a rough patch or I'll get better tomorrow or I can quit tomorrow.

976
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:57,400
So heartily saying, today's the day I quit and by 4 in the afternoon I'm loaded, right?

977
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:58,400
Using against your will.

978
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,120
So when these people come in, these people struggle with any type of addiction or any

979
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:06,080
type of bondage and I look them in the eye and I say, I know exactly where you're at.

980
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:07,240
I've been there too.

981
00:50:07,240 --> 00:50:09,720
Let me tell you what God can do for you.

982
00:50:09,720 --> 00:50:14,720
I'm a living example of the miraculous of Jesus Christ because he's still in the miracle

983
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:15,720
business.

984
00:50:15,720 --> 00:50:16,720
Absolutely.

985
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:17,720
You know what I mean?

986
00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:19,640
And that's what I love about the title of this.

987
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:23,240
When you came up that day in life's recovery and said, we're doing a podcast and it's

988
00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:25,080
modern day miracles, the goodness of God.

989
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:29,360
I'm like, I'm in because I could talk and people joke about it all the time.

990
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,040
I could talk from now to next Tuesday about the goodness of God.

991
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:33,040
I believe you.

992
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:37,120
Not just in my life, but what he's done in my family's life and my friend's lives and

993
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:38,120
what prayer does.

994
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,120
I mean, look, I just got chills.

995
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:41,120
Amen.

996
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:42,120
Yeah, hallelujah.

997
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:47,280
You know, Sam, thank you so much for your time and your story and your dedication to God.

998
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:52,720
And I for one, never, ever, ever, ever, whatever, have suspected that your past is what it was

999
00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:55,040
thanks to the grace that God has given you today.

1000
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:56,040
Amen.

1001
00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:00,080
That you are not even resembling anything of the man that you described in this podcast

1002
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,040
in any way, shape, form, or apparition thereof.

1003
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:06,000
And I am so grateful that I met you on the adventure fest.

1004
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:07,120
On the adventure fest, yeah.

1005
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:12,920
And I'm so grateful that my wife has reached out to you and I know that you were just blessed

1006
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:14,880
to give your testimony like this.

1007
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,280
And I'd look forward to more.

1008
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:17,200
Sure.

1009
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:18,200
I've read a lot, I'm sure.

1010
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,720
So I'm always willing to more podcasts with you.

1011
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:22,520
I'm always willing to share the goodness of God.

1012
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:23,520
And so Sam Gaiatano.

1013
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:24,520
Yeah.

1014
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:25,520
Gaiatano.

1015
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:26,520
And we appreciate it.

1016
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:27,520
We appreciate it.

1017
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:28,520
We appreciate it.

1018
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:29,520
We really appreciate you.

1019
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:33,440
And I appreciate your love and kindness, both of you, Willie, and thank you for allowing

1020
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:37,320
me because there's power and testimony and it's all about the Lord.

1021
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:41,520
It's Willie not about me, but you know, I always think about that scripture, you know, you're

1022
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:46,600
a new creation in Christ, the oldest past, all things that behold, all things that become

1023
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:47,600
new.

1024
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,000
And then in Romans, you know, there was no condemnation.

1025
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:51,480
Therefore now there was no condemnation.

1026
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,960
Because the enemy attacks the thinking.

1027
00:51:53,960 --> 00:52:00,040
And early on, I'd be at Fugaspor, I'd be at South Hills Assembly, praising and the enemy

1028
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,280
would put some scene in my mind.

1029
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,880
Because I had, you talked about your son's night terrors, right?

1030
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,440
I used to have these violent dreams.

1031
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:11,080
I'd be sleeping in that chair, would be watching Thursday night with family night, would play

1032
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:12,680
games and maybe watch some.

1033
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:18,280
They were young and I'd be like, sound asleep and then I'd have this reoccurring nightmare.

1034
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:22,640
Oh, if a girl you had that and then run out of the room and go, my mom, that's freaking

1035
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:23,640
out, you know.

1036
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:28,440
I prayed, I prayed, I prayed and the Lord took that.

1037
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:33,760
I sleep like a baby the last 15, 18 years, like a baby.

1038
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,560
He's healed my body, healed my mind.

1039
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:41,960
Psalm 103, praise the Lord, oh my soul and forget not, all my inmost being, forget not

1040
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:43,920
all his benefits, right?

1041
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:45,760
Praise the Lord, oh my soul.

1042
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:49,880
He redeemed my life from the pit and he crowned me with love and compassion.

1043
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:55,200
See, I have compassion for those that are struggling and all these overdoses the last

1044
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,520
five, seven years, the way this fentanyl is killing all these young bucks I call them

1045
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:06,080
and young ladies, it puts them on my path, it hurts, but I will not stop, not stop preaching

1046
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:11,600
the gospel, the good news of Christ and the freedom in that and helping others.

1047
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,400
One for others, Kubler Ross, new death experience.

1048
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,760
So thank you, Shelly, for having me.

1049
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:19,040
Thank you for being with us, Sam.

1050
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:24,480
It was wonderful to hear all about that and get to know you better and I appreciate you

1051
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,000
being your authentic self.

1052
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:27,840
Yeah, what you see is what you get.

1053
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:35,160
I had to be, I had to get to a place where I know who I am and the person of Jesus Christ.

1054
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:39,480
Therefore the rejection of praise and the praise of men, the rejection and praise of

1055
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,200
good men is insignificant.

1056
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:47,400
I no longer desire to be liked and I'm not saying that egotistically or anything, you

1057
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:48,400
know what I mean?

1058
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:51,640
Like I think everyone likes being liked a little bit, but I'm more about the love because

1059
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:55,200
love never fails, but if you don't like me, that's okay.

1060
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,800
If you praise me, I say thank you, but it's all about him.

1061
00:53:57,800 --> 00:53:59,600
I agree, 100%.

1062
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:05,520
Well, if you have been blessed by this podcast, we pray that you share it with others and

1063
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:12,040
also we have a fundraising campaign and it's at gifsango.com and you look up God's Goodness

1064
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:16,920
podcast and you'll be able to contribute to us financially and that would be a big help

1065
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:23,080
for this audio editing and some other expenses that have come along the way with opportunities

1066
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:25,360
that are shared on social media.

1067
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:34,120
So if you want to check those out, you can and we will talk to you next time.