WEBVTT 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:11.539 Yeah, we are used to experience the cities during 00:00:11.539 --> 00:00:14.140 the day, so we're used to think that cities are 00:00:14.140 --> 00:00:17.120 just working during the daytime, but a lot of 00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:22.500 things are happening at nighttime. That's right, 00:00:22.579 --> 00:00:24.839 and we're going to explore those things in today's 00:00:24.839 --> 00:00:32.250 episode. Hi and welcome back to the City's Reimagined 00:00:32.250 --> 00:00:34.009 podcast. I'm your voice of choice, Johannes Riegler, 00:00:34.009 --> 00:00:42.850 and this is Reimagining the City at Night. Tonight 00:00:42.850 --> 00:00:45.409 we are heading out into the city of the dark. 00:00:45.450 --> 00:00:47.950 That's right, the episode is all about what happens 00:00:47.950 --> 00:00:50.350 when the sun goes down. So we are kicking things 00:00:50.350 --> 00:00:53.450 off with a little techno to get you all in the 00:00:53.450 --> 00:00:59.929 mood. That's certainly not my favorite genre 00:00:59.929 --> 00:01:02.530 of music. But anyway, I'm joined today by Simone 00:01:02.530 --> 00:01:05.170 D 'Antonio. Simone is an expert on sustainable 00:01:05.170 --> 00:01:07.510 urban development, and he's supporting local 00:01:07.510 --> 00:01:10.689 and regional authorities with innovative projects. 00:01:10.950 --> 00:01:14.049 Right now, he's working with 10 cities across 00:01:14.049 --> 00:01:16.969 Europe in an urban network called Cities After 00:01:16.969 --> 00:01:19.849 Dark. And what they're doing, they're exploring 00:01:19.849 --> 00:01:22.950 all aspects of what the nighttime economy is 00:01:22.950 --> 00:01:32.049 and what it needs. So I suggest you make sure 00:01:32.049 --> 00:01:34.010 that you are caffeinated enough, have a coffee 00:01:34.010 --> 00:01:37.069 and an energy drink, or whatever keeps you going 00:01:37.069 --> 00:01:43.569 through the night. But before you lose yourself 00:01:43.569 --> 00:01:45.170 on the dance floor too much, there's a heads 00:01:45.170 --> 00:01:46.950 up I need to give you. The nighttime economy 00:01:46.950 --> 00:01:50.129 is much more than just clubs and bars. There's 00:01:50.129 --> 00:01:52.909 more lenses to that. That includes mobility, 00:01:53.170 --> 00:01:56.689 care work, hospitality, logistics, emergency 00:01:56.689 --> 00:01:59.890 services, security and access to services around 00:01:59.890 --> 00:02:01.769 the clock. And we will touch up on that today. 00:02:06.629 --> 00:02:09.310 If you like the content. subscribe to the show 00:02:09.310 --> 00:02:11.189 or smash the like button or send me an email 00:02:11.189 --> 00:02:16.270 at johannes at Anthropocene .city. And now we 00:02:16.270 --> 00:02:19.370 are off to the night to Simone D 'Antonio, who's 00:02:19.370 --> 00:02:21.889 going to tell you all about the nighttime economy. 00:02:29.889 --> 00:02:32.430 Simone, what sparked your interest in cities 00:02:32.430 --> 00:02:35.939 in the first place? In fact, I grew up in the 00:02:35.939 --> 00:02:41.900 metropolitan area of Naples, Napoli, in Herculaneum, 00:02:41.900 --> 00:02:45.060 specifically. So it's a city with thousands of 00:02:45.060 --> 00:02:49.460 years of history. So Naples, that is as urban 00:02:49.460 --> 00:02:53.919 as it can get. Yeah, exactly. Still from the 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:57.879 name, you know, Napoli is taken from the Greek 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:03.909 Neapolis, New City. the urban topics are in some 00:03:03.909 --> 00:03:08.189 ways everywhere there. And I've always loved 00:03:08.189 --> 00:03:11.930 cities because they are places full of challenges 00:03:11.930 --> 00:03:16.090 but also places full of solutions to the challenges 00:03:16.090 --> 00:03:22.169 of our time. The metropolitan area of Naples 00:03:22.169 --> 00:03:26.189 is more or less 10 kilometers apart from the 00:03:26.189 --> 00:03:31.539 city center. I saw how much the lack of public 00:03:31.539 --> 00:03:36.020 transport, the lack of public spaces, the social 00:03:36.020 --> 00:03:40.240 inequalities, the lack of spaces to do sports 00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:44.599 really affected the everyday life of people. 00:03:46.740 --> 00:03:50.319 And I really think that these elements were very 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:55.969 important for shaping my interest in in cities. 00:03:56.370 --> 00:03:59.810 Do you have a remembrance when that was in your 00:03:59.810 --> 00:04:02.710 life? At what age did you think, oh, that is 00:04:02.710 --> 00:04:06.650 something I'm more interested in, I want to work 00:04:06.650 --> 00:04:12.189 on that topic? In fact, I was living there until 00:04:12.189 --> 00:04:19.360 2006 when I moved to Brussels. So I experienced 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:25.879 the magic of the 90s there in Napoli and the 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:29.779 beginning of the century living in a city that 00:04:29.779 --> 00:04:34.399 was very... different than the city that we know 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:39.259 now. It's over -touristified, it's full of visitors. 00:04:39.300 --> 00:04:41.120 At the time there was not that much tourism, 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:45.300 it was basically national tourism, not international, 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:51.160 so it was really rare to find some tourists from 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:56.410 abroad. And it was very authentic. I love to 00:04:56.410 --> 00:05:00.730 say that Napoli is the northest city of the global 00:05:00.730 --> 00:05:05.110 south. And it's still true, in my opinion, for 00:05:05.110 --> 00:05:09.589 many aspects of the everyday life there. And 00:05:09.589 --> 00:05:14.810 when I travel abroad, I always see great similarities 00:05:14.810 --> 00:05:20.370 with cities like Medellin or... Cairo or Delhi 00:05:20.370 --> 00:05:24.089 or Mumbai. So I really feel that these cities 00:05:24.089 --> 00:05:28.529 have much in common with Napoli, with the place 00:05:28.529 --> 00:05:32.189 where I grew up. In what way? Tell me a bit about 00:05:32.189 --> 00:05:36.029 it. In the way people live in the public space, 00:05:36.290 --> 00:05:44.149 in the way people interact among them, in the 00:05:44.149 --> 00:05:50.939 way people sell things or survive in some ways. 00:05:51.019 --> 00:05:54.040 So the traffic is in some ways very similar to 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:59.100 how the city is used on an everyday basis. So 00:05:59.100 --> 00:06:04.439 it's the role of the marketplaces, the role of 00:06:04.439 --> 00:06:10.000 the street vendors, or the sound. The sound that 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:13.540 is always very loud. Not only the sound of the 00:06:13.540 --> 00:06:17.879 cars but also sound of people shouting or calling 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:21.019 to each other. These kind of things are really 00:06:21.019 --> 00:06:24.959 connecting cities of the Global South in some 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:28.720 ways. And I think that Napoli should be proud 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:32.800 of it as a city. Naples is a city that should 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:36.600 really invest on this legacy. It's one of the 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:40.860 most ancient cities in the world which is still 00:06:40.860 --> 00:06:45.120 surviving and which is still there. since its 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:48.959 creation without having been destroyed or changed 00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:54.579 also in the urban planning structure. Nice. We 00:06:54.579 --> 00:06:57.319 might come back to the tourism part or the tourism 00:06:57.319 --> 00:07:00.860 issue, which you mentioned a bit later. But tell 00:07:00.860 --> 00:07:04.879 me a bit more. So you moved from Napoli to Brussels. 00:07:05.660 --> 00:07:08.160 What did you do there? Did you study there? Where 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:11.759 did the urban background come in? In fact, I 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:15.000 studied political sciences, international relations 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:21.519 in Napoli. I studied there at the Oriental University, 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:24.300 which is the University of Oriental Studies. 00:07:24.899 --> 00:07:28.319 I moved to Brussels for an internship in 2006 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:32.199 while I was still studying. And then I got offered 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:35.019 a job there in Brussels at the Association of 00:07:35.019 --> 00:07:39.220 Cities and Municipalities. That was a way for 00:07:39.220 --> 00:07:41.300 the Italian Association of Municipalities to 00:07:41.300 --> 00:07:46.040 bring our mayors and elected officials, civic 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:50.220 officials to Brussels and to connect them to 00:07:50.220 --> 00:07:53.860 the European institutions. And before going to 00:07:53.860 --> 00:07:59.639 Brussels, I didn't... even though that the national 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:02.800 associations of cities could have interest in 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:07.879 being there, in making some forms of institutional 00:08:07.879 --> 00:08:12.019 lobbying activities, when I went to Brussels 00:08:12.019 --> 00:08:18.740 I realized that these kind of offices, these 00:08:18.740 --> 00:08:22.279 kind of foundations were really useful for creating 00:08:23.129 --> 00:08:25.370 connections, not only with European institutions, 00:08:25.629 --> 00:08:29.310 but with cities. So there were, in that period, 00:08:29.350 --> 00:08:31.829 in those three, four years, three, four rotating 00:08:31.829 --> 00:08:34.870 presidencies of the European Council, which were 00:08:34.870 --> 00:08:38.710 really influential in shaping the debate on cities, 00:08:38.990 --> 00:08:43.850 in shaping how cities in the future should look 00:08:43.850 --> 00:08:47.950 like. And it was really important, in my opinion, 00:08:47.950 --> 00:08:52.730 also for understanding that working with cities 00:08:52.730 --> 00:08:55.350 is not just working on the ground with infrastructure 00:08:55.350 --> 00:08:58.330 projects, but it's also working on dimensions 00:08:58.330 --> 00:09:02.149 such as the active participation of the residents 00:09:02.149 --> 00:09:08.350 or the collaboration with different levels of 00:09:08.350 --> 00:09:11.070 governance or the multi -level governance were 00:09:11.070 --> 00:09:15.190 important for attracting resources, but also 00:09:15.190 --> 00:09:19.769 for creating the conditions. for innovative projects. 00:09:19.990 --> 00:09:23.129 Yeah. And we met, I think the first time we met, 00:09:23.169 --> 00:09:29.129 that must have been in 2013, 2012, for a European 00:09:29.129 --> 00:09:31.570 project on social innovation in cities, which 00:09:31.570 --> 00:09:34.110 we ran back then when I was working at the Austrian 00:09:34.110 --> 00:09:37.129 Institute of Technology. Were you in Brussels 00:09:37.129 --> 00:09:41.929 still? Or did you move? I was in Rome. You were 00:09:41.929 --> 00:09:44.669 in Rome. So after that you moved to Rome and 00:09:44.669 --> 00:09:48.429 continued working with Angie. But how did you 00:09:48.429 --> 00:09:51.669 decide, because you work a lot with cities around 00:09:51.669 --> 00:09:54.029 the globe and cities throughout, or local public 00:09:54.029 --> 00:09:56.730 administration, I should say, throughout Europe 00:09:56.730 --> 00:10:01.590 and the globe. What excites me of this is basically 00:10:01.590 --> 00:10:06.389 the impact that these projects are creating in 00:10:06.389 --> 00:10:11.059 cities. I had the chance to to work with cities 00:10:11.059 --> 00:10:14.860 from different positions within the association 00:10:14.860 --> 00:10:19.820 of cities, which is like a ministry in Italy. 00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:22.840 So it's a point of reference for local governments. 00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:27.740 I saw the challenges that local representatives, 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:34.000 civic officials had in improving the way they 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:36.000 were working or in creating innovative projects 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:41.100 while working for URBACT, European Urban Initiative, 00:10:41.340 --> 00:10:44.559 and even before with the Urban Innovative Actions, 00:10:44.659 --> 00:10:50.080 I saw how much these European programs can be 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:53.580 fundamental for bringing something innovative 00:10:53.580 --> 00:10:57.279 to the everyday life of cities. So basically 00:10:57.279 --> 00:11:01.639 I spent 10 years at the Association of Cities, 00:11:01.820 --> 00:11:07.080 even a bit more than 10 years, as contact person 00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:12.000 of the National Urban Point for Italy. And what 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:14.539 I did in that position was to create this bridge 00:11:14.539 --> 00:11:17.679 between the everyday life of cities in Italy 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:21.600 and these programs which are important also for 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:23.840 not only for giving resources but also for giving 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:30.440 methodologies for some ways of supporting cities 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:35.049 in a lateral thinking about their future. And 00:11:35.049 --> 00:11:39.230 after this experience, I focused on the support 00:11:39.230 --> 00:11:43.169 to some of these networks as expert. So I saw 00:11:43.169 --> 00:11:46.370 from the other side, from just national level, 00:11:46.610 --> 00:11:50.389 how much the action of experts and consultants 00:11:50.389 --> 00:11:53.370 can be important also for seeing things from 00:11:53.370 --> 00:11:57.389 the outside and also for improving the perception 00:11:57.389 --> 00:12:01.230 of... urban innovation cities, because what I 00:12:01.230 --> 00:12:03.070 see is that many cities are doing innovative 00:12:03.070 --> 00:12:06.190 things, but they just don't realize that they're 00:12:06.190 --> 00:12:09.210 doing something innovative because it's part 00:12:09.210 --> 00:12:13.509 of the everyday life or it's one of the projects 00:12:13.509 --> 00:12:15.429 that they have, but it's not the most important 00:12:15.429 --> 00:12:22.250 one. So sometimes I, I received some, some, some 00:12:22.250 --> 00:12:24.070 contacts of cities which are doing things or 00:12:24.070 --> 00:12:27.370 they approached me for getting some support on 00:12:27.370 --> 00:12:30.019 specific projects. And then I say, guys, okay, 00:12:30.139 --> 00:12:32.559 you're doing great. But there's another project 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:36.279 that you mentioned me just very briefly that 00:12:36.279 --> 00:12:39.179 maybe it's more innovative than the thing that 00:12:39.179 --> 00:12:41.240 you are working on. Maybe just to connect the 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:45.019 dots. Yeah. And it's already there. That's good. 00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:48.299 Before going down the rabbit hole of, let's say, 00:12:48.460 --> 00:12:52.080 innovative technicalities of innovation, I have 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:54.139 one question for you. I know that you're working 00:12:54.139 --> 00:12:58.100 on a project on the nighttime. which I find super 00:12:58.100 --> 00:13:00.340 fascinating and super interesting. So you want 00:13:00.340 --> 00:13:04.159 to be honest, how much is that an excuse to hang 00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:11.220 out in nice bars and go to clubs? A lot. I was 00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:14.840 hoping you would say that. I'm very, very sincere 00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:18.019 about it. It's a great opportunity to connect 00:13:18.019 --> 00:13:23.519 with great bars, with great clubs, but also with 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:26.840 great people. behind them yeah but tell tell 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:30.080 us about uh about this project or uh the projects 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:32.700 called cities after dark or in general about 00:13:32.700 --> 00:13:34.799 the nighttime economy where does it come from 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:37.519 how does it you you mentioned before we started 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:39.860 the recording nighttime economy is from uh 6 00:13:39.860 --> 00:13:43.379 p .m to 6 a .m what falls under that uh give 00:13:43.379 --> 00:13:49.039 us a bit of a taste yeah we are used to uh experience 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:52.379 the cities during the day, so we're used to think 00:13:52.379 --> 00:13:54.740 that cities are just working during the daytime, 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:57.940 but a lot of things are happening at night time. 00:13:59.700 --> 00:14:02.500 It's not just bars and clubs, it's not just about 00:14:02.500 --> 00:14:07.159 entertainment or hospitality, but it's something 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:14.149 in my opinion broader than this. At night, we 00:14:14.149 --> 00:14:16.889 have different categories of people who are working. 00:14:17.169 --> 00:14:23.389 We have nurses, doctors, bakers, policemen, people 00:14:23.389 --> 00:14:27.230 working in the transport sector. So for them, 00:14:27.330 --> 00:14:32.269 the city is really working on 24 hours. And the 00:14:32.269 --> 00:14:35.929 objective of Cities After Dark is to explore 00:14:35.929 --> 00:14:41.460 the potential of the cities. different dimensions 00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:43.799 of the nighttime economy. So it's not just about 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:49.620 what are the sectors that are usually connected 00:14:49.620 --> 00:14:56.159 to our idea of nighttime as something enjoyable, 00:14:56.500 --> 00:15:01.279 as a very creative moment, as a moment for personal 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:05.460 and cultural growth, but also as a productive 00:15:05.460 --> 00:15:12.950 place. We are doing that with 10 cities with 00:15:12.950 --> 00:15:16.070 different levels of experience on nighttime economy. 00:15:16.330 --> 00:15:19.970 We have some cities like Paris and Tallinn which 00:15:19.970 --> 00:15:23.009 already had some strategies on nighttime economy 00:15:23.009 --> 00:15:26.669 and some interesting forms of governance or coordination 00:15:26.669 --> 00:15:32.269 among different departments or different offices 00:15:32.269 --> 00:15:36.269 within the local authority. Also with strong 00:15:37.390 --> 00:15:40.490 political presence on these topics. Some other 00:15:40.490 --> 00:15:45.750 cities are very new to the topic. We have Braga 00:15:45.750 --> 00:15:49.169 as a lead partner, then Genoa, Malaga, Piraeus, 00:15:49.169 --> 00:15:52.490 Varna and many others, which are working for 00:15:52.490 --> 00:15:55.409 the first time on the nighttime economy. They 00:15:55.409 --> 00:15:58.669 are using the opportunity given by this Orbach 00:15:58.669 --> 00:16:02.480 network, which is the first. network have fully 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:07.659 done on this topic to carry out testing actions 00:16:07.659 --> 00:16:13.340 on this and integrate strategies that are going 00:16:13.340 --> 00:16:20.500 to be night policies for them. And it's in many 00:16:20.500 --> 00:16:22.779 cases also the first opportunity that they have 00:16:22.779 --> 00:16:28.179 to deal with the variety of stakeholders working 00:16:28.179 --> 00:16:30.740 at night. What are the actions they are working 00:16:30.740 --> 00:16:36.720 on? Some cities worked on the localization of 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:40.220 nighttime activities in order to decongestionate 00:16:40.220 --> 00:16:43.679 the city centers, which are usually the most 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:46.720 populated night spots, and bring some activities 00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:49.080 out of the city centers, which is something also 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:54.110 in line with... the 15 -minute city concept, 00:16:54.450 --> 00:16:57.710 so bringing not only access to public spaces 00:16:57.710 --> 00:17:00.409 or to green areas to transport, but also access 00:17:00.409 --> 00:17:04.269 to cultural and economic opportunities after 00:17:04.269 --> 00:17:07.089 dark for all. It's part of the debate, in my 00:17:07.089 --> 00:17:10.049 opinion. Genoa, for instance, is working on that. 00:17:10.210 --> 00:17:14.670 They tested the extension of a public transport 00:17:14.670 --> 00:17:19.059 line or bus line to the suburbs. And they organized 00:17:19.059 --> 00:17:24.980 some cultural events, something like guided tours 00:17:24.980 --> 00:17:28.460 of an historical palace or DJ sets in unusual 00:17:28.460 --> 00:17:31.640 places. So it was a way for testing the reaction 00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:34.960 of the residents, but also for testing the reaction 00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:37.279 of people who were going to this neighborhood 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:40.039 for the first time for these events. And it was 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:47.099 really good. Talin worked a lot on the involvement 00:17:47.099 --> 00:17:51.039 of a specific category of people, young people 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:57.480 from 14 to 18 years old, who are in some ways 00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:02.799 not yet night users. And there is a risk that 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:05.579 they are not going to be night users as we were 00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:11.619 at the time because behaviors are changing. Right 00:18:11.619 --> 00:18:16.579 now, fighting against the sofa, fighting against 00:18:16.579 --> 00:18:21.579 everything we can have from home, from delivery, 00:18:21.940 --> 00:18:26.720 food delivery or Netflix or other things. We 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:29.880 have everything at home. So it's completely changing 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:32.799 also the way people live at night and experience 00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:38.200 cultural life at night. It's a very different 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:43.160 experience, right? with the young ones there's 00:18:43.160 --> 00:18:46.259 a different competition you have before you might 00:18:46.259 --> 00:18:48.960 uh let's say nighttime the nighttime economy 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:53.079 or gastronomy and bars might have competed with 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:54.900 each other but now they compete apparently with 00:18:54.900 --> 00:18:59.160 with you know as you said netflix sofa uh liverando 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:02.259 who brings brings the food it's comfortable at 00:19:02.259 --> 00:19:07.000 home it's it's a different kind of A different 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:09.519 kind of spending money, which is not necessarily... 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:11.519 Yeah, you have a different experience with that. 00:19:11.539 --> 00:19:13.660 You don't experience the city per se as such. 00:19:15.180 --> 00:19:17.859 Yeah, the pandemic had an impact on it, for sure. 00:19:18.579 --> 00:19:22.799 There is a generation of people who were supposed 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:28.039 to start to go out in 2020, 2021, and they basically 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:33.890 stopped to go out during those years. They are 00:19:33.890 --> 00:19:36.069 not going out right now or they are going out 00:19:36.069 --> 00:19:39.930 less than before. Rising prices is an element, 00:19:40.049 --> 00:19:42.950 but also some cultural changes that we see in 00:19:42.950 --> 00:19:45.710 cities. For instance, in many countries, we see 00:19:45.710 --> 00:19:48.730 that for health reasons, people are drinking 00:19:48.730 --> 00:19:52.930 less. So this is a challenge also for bar owners, 00:19:53.329 --> 00:19:57.230 restaurant owners to offer some alternatives. 00:19:57.869 --> 00:20:04.210 to go out and enjoy the night out without drinking 00:20:04.210 --> 00:20:09.230 was the core element of going out until a couple 00:20:09.230 --> 00:20:14.069 of years ago. So everything is changing, and 00:20:14.069 --> 00:20:17.789 we are focusing on how cities are supporting 00:20:17.789 --> 00:20:22.809 this change, working with business owners, with 00:20:22.809 --> 00:20:27.789 cultural actors, but also with providers of innovative 00:20:27.789 --> 00:20:30.529 services. One of the things that is attracting 00:20:30.529 --> 00:20:33.809 a lot the attention on Cities After Dark is the 00:20:33.809 --> 00:20:37.369 fact that some of our cities are launching nighttime 00:20:37.369 --> 00:20:42.670 nurseries which are really good for families 00:20:42.670 --> 00:20:46.130 where both the parents are working at night in 00:20:46.130 --> 00:20:52.390 bars, clubs or hospitals or as drivers of buses 00:20:52.390 --> 00:20:58.660 or metro. Some cities are also testing night 00:20:58.660 --> 00:21:01.880 nurseries just for supporting families, young 00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:05.640 families who want to go out for a night. So these 00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:08.980 nurseries are open from 7 p .m. to midnight. 00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:12.579 You can leave kids with other kids, and so it's 00:21:12.579 --> 00:21:14.200 better than just having the babysitter at home. 00:21:14.619 --> 00:21:18.779 And young families can go to the theater or they 00:21:18.779 --> 00:21:20.980 can go to watch a movie or go to the restaurant. 00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:26.640 project was launched in Genoa. It's a very interesting 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:31.119 initiative that in my opinion is also attracting 00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:33.920 the attention of other cities across the globe 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:38.539 like Sydney or others who are willing to support 00:21:38.539 --> 00:21:41.700 nighttime economy, also providing new services 00:21:41.700 --> 00:21:45.279 to the people. Yeah, I really like that because 00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.180 when you start thinking about all these different, 00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:51.869 let's say, urban -related aspects of Of the night. 00:21:52.849 --> 00:21:55.470 There are so many different aspects to it. You 00:21:55.470 --> 00:21:59.190 just brought in the night nursery, which I... 00:21:59.420 --> 00:22:01.599 certainly never heard of or never thought about 00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:04.359 probably because i don't have kids but i uh there 00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:06.880 is i've never heard of that but there's also 00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:09.079 so much other other things there's the so you 00:22:09.079 --> 00:22:13.140 know the the sociology or the sociological part 00:22:13.140 --> 00:22:17.839 about it that uh like the air in the city makes 00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:20.740 you free uh and that that comes very much with 00:22:20.740 --> 00:22:23.579 with cultural events and and going out at night 00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:26.960 uh i believe where you just explore the city 00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:31.859 in a different way. And anonymity of the city 00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:35.779 can have a huge impact or brings very different 00:22:35.779 --> 00:22:39.380 opportunities, possibilities, compared to a small 00:22:39.380 --> 00:22:42.940 town or a village. But then again, you have so 00:22:42.940 --> 00:22:48.059 many other interesting parts. You have the mobilization 00:22:48.059 --> 00:22:51.319 of... under activated or underused spaces which 00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:55.299 might come in you might have yeah the economic 00:22:55.900 --> 00:22:59.160 You might have alternative economic perspectives 00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:02.099 on that or alternative ways of doing culture 00:23:02.099 --> 00:23:05.140 or promoting culture. I found it very fascinating. 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:07.119 But then on the other hand, you also have these 00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:10.460 whole dilemmas, which we already touched on in 00:23:10.460 --> 00:23:13.440 the beginning, that some cities are becoming 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:15.859 very popular for that reason, for their nighttime 00:23:15.859 --> 00:23:18.880 economy and going out. Do you have some thoughts 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:21.420 on that, on this link between nighttime economy 00:23:21.420 --> 00:23:27.869 and overtourism? Yes, I think that this element 00:23:27.869 --> 00:23:32.849 was one of the things that drove Praga at the 00:23:32.849 --> 00:23:37.609 beginning to present this application for a network 00:23:37.609 --> 00:23:41.289 of nighttime economy, also including cities like 00:23:41.289 --> 00:23:44.509 Genoa or Zadar, which were included in previous 00:23:44.509 --> 00:23:47.289 networks, like Tourist Friendly Cities, which 00:23:47.289 --> 00:23:50.529 was a network on sustainable impact of tourism 00:23:50.529 --> 00:23:54.160 in Europe or including India. urban agenda for 00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:57.099 the EU partnership on sustainable tourism. But 00:23:57.099 --> 00:24:01.180 I need to say that at the end, many cities didn't 00:24:01.180 --> 00:24:04.880 go through this aspect working on nighttime economy 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:09.259 because they realized that before creating a 00:24:09.259 --> 00:24:11.680 city that is vibrant at night for the visitors, 00:24:11.980 --> 00:24:14.680 you need to... make the city vibrant for the 00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:17.480 residents. And this is an element that we saw 00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:20.259 in some of the cities of the network, like Budva 00:24:20.259 --> 00:24:24.240 or Zadar, where the old towns are usually full 00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:28.440 of tourists during the summer. And their question 00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:32.380 is, where do the locals go out when tourists 00:24:32.380 --> 00:24:35.180 are here? And that's the reason why many cities 00:24:35.180 --> 00:24:37.880 are investing in diversification of night activities, 00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:42.119 diversification in space and quality of these 00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:46.380 activities. But many cities are continuing to 00:24:46.380 --> 00:24:49.400 focus on elements which are the contrast to noise 00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:53.160 pollution or the misuse of public spaces which 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:57.000 are still present in many cities across Europe. 00:24:57.400 --> 00:24:59.700 With Cities After Dark we are trying to give 00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:04.559 some possible solutions. which are not just technological 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:09.039 solutions like CCTV or mechanism for reducing 00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:13.500 noise, but also mechanism for making public spaces 00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:17.500 better for all. There are many experiences across 00:25:17.500 --> 00:25:21.539 Europe of cities which are organizing a series 00:25:21.539 --> 00:25:25.000 of night events in public spaces or in public 00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:27.660 parks, which is a very important thing, especially 00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:29.880 in times of climate emergency as the times we 00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:32.920 are living in. as a way also for finding some 00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:37.039 shelter from hot during the summer period. If 00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:40.660 you organize these spaces in a way that is safer 00:25:40.660 --> 00:25:43.519 and more accessible for all, these spaces are 00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:46.740 going to be more welcoming and people are going 00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:49.660 to enjoy them in a different way. And then there 00:25:49.660 --> 00:25:52.839 are some mechanisms also for supporting the cultural 00:25:52.839 --> 00:25:57.079 vibrancy of these spaces in some cities like 00:25:57.079 --> 00:26:00.799 Tallinn are. working on licensing rules. They 00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:04.960 are making licensing rules more flexible to spaces 00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:12.420 with a cultural agenda where they host not only 00:26:12.420 --> 00:26:17.960 music events but also clubbing programs or things 00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:19.720 which are part of the cultural offer of the city. 00:26:20.359 --> 00:26:25.269 They offer incentives to these places. some economic 00:26:25.269 --> 00:26:28.650 support but also the opportunity of selling alcohol 00:26:28.650 --> 00:26:32.349 longer than other spaces because alcohol obviously 00:26:32.349 --> 00:26:36.490 is a way for supporting also the revenues of 00:26:36.490 --> 00:26:41.109 these spaces. Paris has launched a similar mechanism 00:26:41.109 --> 00:26:46.089 of support for soundproofing of clubs and bars 00:26:46.089 --> 00:26:51.369 so it's basically better for the city to have 00:26:51.369 --> 00:26:54.670 them there. with some profane systems instead 00:26:54.670 --> 00:27:00.829 of fining them and bringing them to shut down. 00:27:01.269 --> 00:27:06.430 We have one. In Vienna, we have the Arena, which 00:27:06.430 --> 00:27:09.549 is, if you ask me, the best concert venue in 00:27:09.549 --> 00:27:11.670 the world. It's a former slaughterhouse which 00:27:11.670 --> 00:27:14.730 got squatted in the 70s and is now a concert 00:27:14.730 --> 00:27:16.910 venue since then. Or it's multiple concert venues, 00:27:16.930 --> 00:27:20.190 actually. And it was... based in the industrial 00:27:20.190 --> 00:27:23.990 area, in the industrial pocket of Vienna. And 00:27:23.990 --> 00:27:28.349 as the city grows, the industrial city or parts 00:27:28.349 --> 00:27:30.730 around the slaughterhouse turned into housing. 00:27:31.309 --> 00:27:36.470 And now they built two huge housing blocks of, 00:27:36.549 --> 00:27:39.170 I don't know, 25 stories, very close to the arena. 00:27:39.269 --> 00:27:42.930 And they have open -air concerts as well. So 00:27:42.930 --> 00:27:45.390 every time there's a concert, of course, with 00:27:45.390 --> 00:27:47.309 the old sound, they also have a new sound system 00:27:47.309 --> 00:27:49.529 now, but with the old sound system, they could 00:27:49.529 --> 00:27:52.670 hear the music from the open air. And people 00:27:52.670 --> 00:27:54.829 started complaining. And that is, of course, 00:27:54.869 --> 00:27:57.650 a very delicate issue because the arena is there 00:27:57.650 --> 00:28:04.190 for 50 years. And when you know that you move 00:28:04.190 --> 00:28:09.849 close to such a very famous concert hall, you 00:28:09.849 --> 00:28:13.670 might have to think about that there might be 00:28:13.670 --> 00:28:16.619 some noise coming out. of the concert venue. 00:28:16.839 --> 00:28:20.500 And now the city jumped in and financed them, 00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:22.400 or at least partly financed them, a new sound 00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:25.359 system for their open airs, which is more, let's 00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:28.900 say, directed to the audience and goes less wild 00:28:28.900 --> 00:28:31.319 around it. But yeah, it's one of these conflicts 00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:34.539 I find very interesting, fascinating of how something 00:28:34.539 --> 00:28:36.460 which is there for a very long time, a cultural 00:28:36.460 --> 00:28:41.420 institution, if you will, gets into the way of 00:28:41.420 --> 00:28:46.210 urban development. Yeah, one of the principles 00:28:46.210 --> 00:28:48.930 that is emerging a lot in the UK especially, 00:28:49.130 --> 00:28:51.549 but also in Germany, is the principle of the 00:28:51.549 --> 00:28:55.529 agent of change. It means that real estate developers 00:28:55.529 --> 00:29:01.279 will be the ones to pay. or the price of soundproofing 00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:05.259 in case a club or a concert hall or a festival 00:29:05.259 --> 00:29:08.759 is already there before developing new buildings. 00:29:09.619 --> 00:29:12.640 It's a very controversial principle, it's not 00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:16.039 easy to implement it, but in the UK it helped 00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:20.119 a lot to save also some historical venues such 00:29:20.119 --> 00:29:22.460 as the Ministry of Sound, which is one of the 00:29:22.460 --> 00:29:27.490 most famous. clubs of London. The implementation 00:29:27.490 --> 00:29:29.930 of this principle was really important also for 00:29:29.930 --> 00:29:33.769 saving some parks and spaces like Crystal Palace 00:29:33.769 --> 00:29:35.670 where concerts and festivals were organized. 00:29:36.250 --> 00:29:39.829 The Club Commission of Berlin is acting a lot 00:29:39.829 --> 00:29:42.890 as mediator between the needs of the existing 00:29:42.890 --> 00:29:46.690 clubs and real estate developers. So I think 00:29:46.690 --> 00:29:50.950 that this action of mediation between the needs 00:29:50.950 --> 00:29:53.130 of different categories of people living in a 00:29:53.130 --> 00:29:57.390 city. Also adopting some technical solutions, 00:29:57.970 --> 00:30:01.650 like the one that you highlighted, but also other 00:30:01.650 --> 00:30:04.349 solutions which are implemented. For instance, 00:30:04.430 --> 00:30:08.349 in Malm, we were there for the opening festival 00:30:08.349 --> 00:30:13.089 of the URBAT for Action Planning Networks, and 00:30:13.089 --> 00:30:17.849 we organized a night tour with the partners of 00:30:17.849 --> 00:30:21.920 Cities After Dark. And we saw that in some parts 00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:24.740 of the city, they started to organize concerts, 00:30:24.859 --> 00:30:29.380 having a person from the municipality who is 00:30:29.380 --> 00:30:32.759 a sort of mediator between the needs of concert 00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:38.299 organizers and the city hall. This guy is just 00:30:38.299 --> 00:30:40.819 a person living in the neighborhood. But he said, 00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:43.119 OK, I want to help you because I think it's important 00:30:43.119 --> 00:30:46.019 that you organize cultural events and concerts. 00:30:46.039 --> 00:30:51.680 So he helped them. to locate the sound systems 00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:56.220 in a way that was not disturbing the residents 00:30:56.220 --> 00:31:02.140 but was creating fun for people without negative 00:31:02.140 --> 00:31:07.079 effects as other big concerts were doing very 00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:10.039 far from the places where people were living 00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:13.900 in. So it's very interesting also how these solutions 00:31:13.900 --> 00:31:18.119 are. are designed. But I think that this combination 00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:24.039 between practical sense and also, in my opinion, 00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:27.900 it's important to highlight the added value that 00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:30.559 nighttime economy creates not only for economic 00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:33.920 development, which is really hard to assess, 00:31:34.750 --> 00:31:37.529 but also for the cultural development of the 00:31:37.529 --> 00:31:41.349 cities. And one of the things that we saw during 00:31:41.349 --> 00:31:46.470 one of our study visits in Berlin was the realization 00:31:46.470 --> 00:31:49.710 of the Tag der Clubkultur, which is the day of 00:31:49.710 --> 00:31:53.109 club culture where people can go to the clubs 00:31:53.109 --> 00:31:55.450 also during the morning with families, with elderly 00:31:55.450 --> 00:31:59.490 persons, and see what are doing these clubs, 00:31:59.769 --> 00:32:02.880 what is inside the clubs. how many people work 00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:05.180 there. And some of our cities, like Prague, decided 00:32:05.180 --> 00:32:09.500 to replicate this model, organizing a night festival, 00:32:09.619 --> 00:32:15.000 which was aimed not only to turn the main square 00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:18.440 into a dance floor for a night, but a way for 00:32:18.440 --> 00:32:22.259 showcasing the diversity of the night scene of 00:32:22.259 --> 00:32:25.140 the city. Bar owners, but also artists in some 00:32:25.140 --> 00:32:29.700 festivals and theater and night workers. So all 00:32:29.700 --> 00:32:34.220 this Things really show to the people how much 00:32:34.220 --> 00:32:37.779 it's important to keep the city vibrant at night. 00:32:37.940 --> 00:32:39.720 And now it's important also to find an agreement 00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:43.880 on what can be disturbing for the daily experience 00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:47.960 of some residents. Yeah, but it's very interesting 00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:51.480 what you just said, these measures or these... 00:32:52.190 --> 00:32:55.690 attempt to to open up the nighttime economy to 00:32:55.690 --> 00:32:58.309 or these cultural places to a broader audience 00:32:58.309 --> 00:33:00.450 in a way that to because if you're not a club 00:33:00.450 --> 00:33:03.990 goer or not going to to concerts or so these 00:33:03.990 --> 00:33:06.609 places might seem a bit a bit scary at times 00:33:06.609 --> 00:33:10.130 you know you have you might have people people 00:33:10.130 --> 00:33:12.650 wandering in and out but you you don't you don't 00:33:12.650 --> 00:33:15.430 know what this is about if you're not going into 00:33:15.430 --> 00:33:18.009 the club yourself right yeah and that's the reason 00:33:18.009 --> 00:33:22.079 why we focused a lot on the the right to the 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:25.359 city at night for all to this concept, which 00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:30.220 is at the core of the new urban agenda of the 00:33:30.220 --> 00:33:36.980 UN habitat. And we toured them on a 24 -hour 00:33:36.980 --> 00:33:42.160 basis. So one of the things that drove me to 00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:45.519 the nighttime economy was the fact that I was 00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:47.680 involved in the previous Urban Innovative Actions 00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:51.119 project of Turin tonight. which was a project 00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:53.740 basically on urban security, so how to make a 00:33:53.740 --> 00:33:58.319 true neighborhood across the Dora River safer 00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:00.799 at night. So a neighborhood with a strong presence 00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:02.740 of migrants, which was perceived as unsafe at 00:34:02.740 --> 00:34:06.059 night, and a neighborhood full of students with 00:34:06.059 --> 00:34:09.539 a university campus. One of the innovative things 00:34:09.539 --> 00:34:11.619 of the project was the launch of a call for projects, 00:34:11.739 --> 00:34:16.340 of micro -projects, so 50 ,000 euros per action, 00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:19.820 carried out by at least... two NGOs together. 00:34:20.199 --> 00:34:25.280 And this project, which funded a lot of theater 00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:27.860 activities in public spaces or calligraphy courses 00:34:27.860 --> 00:34:31.400 with the Chinese community, or some actions to 00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:36.420 rediscover words, cuisine from different migrant 00:34:36.420 --> 00:34:40.579 communities working there, was very interesting 00:34:40.579 --> 00:34:44.679 for the people. But in fact, me or other persons, 00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:46.980 we didn't notice the innovative element. When 00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:50.159 I was in Canada, I was in Montreal, there was 00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:53.480 a guy from 24 Hour Nation, which is maybe the 00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:56.420 most interesting media on nighttime economy. 00:34:57.190 --> 00:35:01.090 And Randall told me, look, what is really innovative 00:35:01.090 --> 00:35:03.889 of your project is the fact that you managed 00:35:03.889 --> 00:35:08.090 to bring elderly persons, families, and kids 00:35:08.090 --> 00:35:10.789 out at night. It's not something that is usually 00:35:10.789 --> 00:35:13.969 happening in America or in the rest of the world. 00:35:14.130 --> 00:35:17.110 You should really work on it. So that's the reason 00:35:17.110 --> 00:35:19.769 why I decided a lot to insist on this element 00:35:19.769 --> 00:35:23.190 also with Seize After Dark, because if we really 00:35:23.190 --> 00:35:26.650 make people aware of all the opportunities that 00:35:26.650 --> 00:35:29.210 they have for making the cities better at night 00:35:29.210 --> 00:35:31.449 for participating in in the life of the city 00:35:31.449 --> 00:35:34.869 at night also all the type of contrasts of processes 00:35:34.869 --> 00:35:39.090 against noise in some ways can be solved if we 00:35:39.090 --> 00:35:41.530 know each other if we talk to each other and 00:35:41.530 --> 00:35:45.670 and if we leave the the city uh at night yeah 00:35:45.670 --> 00:35:49.369 very nice beautiful um and you already mentioned 00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:53.460 this global perspective with Montreal and so 00:35:53.460 --> 00:35:55.340 on. And I know, I saw on your LinkedIn you were 00:35:55.340 --> 00:35:58.519 recently in India, right? Yes, yes, recently. 00:35:59.099 --> 00:36:01.159 I wanted to ask you about that a little bit because 00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:05.280 for a while during my work, I went to China a 00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.940 couple of times. And when I was in Beijing, I 00:36:07.940 --> 00:36:11.619 liked very much staying at a street which is 00:36:11.619 --> 00:36:14.599 translated Ghost Street. And my hotel was there. 00:36:14.679 --> 00:36:17.800 And that was basically almost two kilometer or 00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:22.300 1 .5 kilometer long street with one restaurant, 00:36:22.539 --> 00:36:25.280 one... after the other and many of them have 00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:28.300 are open for 24 hours and i find it so fascinating 00:36:28.300 --> 00:36:31.139 how this is i mean it's a different culture of 00:36:31.139 --> 00:36:33.659 uh there of the nighttime economy they have the 00:36:33.659 --> 00:36:36.139 night markets and they rather go out for food 00:36:36.139 --> 00:36:39.269 and then spend the night in a restaurant But 00:36:39.269 --> 00:36:42.329 it was really, I really liked that there was 00:36:42.329 --> 00:36:44.849 so much going on in the street. And if you pass 00:36:44.849 --> 00:36:47.409 on a Friday, you saw some things you would otherwise 00:36:47.409 --> 00:36:50.670 not see on a Friday night in China. It was very 00:36:50.670 --> 00:36:53.670 fascinating. But it developed from, I read into 00:36:53.670 --> 00:36:57.670 it, and it developed from a trading hub, which 00:36:57.670 --> 00:37:00.530 was located in this neighborhood towards this 00:37:00.530 --> 00:37:04.789 nighttime economy or to this restaurant, collection 00:37:04.789 --> 00:37:10.369 of restaurants. because the workers of this trading 00:37:10.369 --> 00:37:12.690 hub had to eat somewhere. And that's how it developed 00:37:12.690 --> 00:37:15.230 over the years. But tell us a little bit about 00:37:15.230 --> 00:37:17.510 your experience in India, how that related to 00:37:17.510 --> 00:37:20.670 the nighttime economy. How did you perceive it? 00:37:20.730 --> 00:37:23.030 How did it link to what is happening in Europe? 00:37:24.210 --> 00:37:29.449 Were you fascinated by what you saw? In fact, 00:37:29.630 --> 00:37:31.610 everything was really fascinating. It was one 00:37:31.610 --> 00:37:35.510 of my dreams to go there. Was it a work trip 00:37:35.510 --> 00:37:38.659 or private? It was a work trip. I was invited 00:37:38.659 --> 00:37:42.820 there to deliver a presentation at the After 00:37:42.820 --> 00:37:46.079 Dark Placemaking Weekend India, which was organized 00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:49.599 by Placemaking India. It was the first time that 00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:51.880 this network of architects and urban designers 00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:55.699 and planners decided to focus on nighttime economy. 00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:59.880 So I brought there the experience of cities after 00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:02.099 dark, of the things that we are doing with our 00:38:02.099 --> 00:38:05.480 cities in Europe. But I took the opportunity 00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:11.179 also to meet many cultural organizers and representatives 00:38:11.179 --> 00:38:16.239 of the nighttime economy industries who are active 00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:22.099 between Bangalore, Mumbai, and Delhi. And it 00:38:22.099 --> 00:38:24.380 was really great for the reasons that you said 00:38:24.380 --> 00:38:28.440 before. The fact that these cities have a very 00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:31.679 vibrant nightlife, even if this nightlife is 00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:36.260 not governed. The presence of food markets and 00:38:36.260 --> 00:38:40.440 street markets in Mangalore, I saw this flower 00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:43.360 market which opened at 4 o 'clock in the morning 00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:46.619 and it was really one of the most interesting 00:38:46.619 --> 00:38:52.260 things in the city to see this market alive at 00:38:52.260 --> 00:38:58.210 4 a .m. with a lot of vendors, with the whole 00:38:58.210 --> 00:39:00.909 local community basically going to the market 00:39:00.909 --> 00:39:06.369 between 4 a .m. and 9 a .m. Many cities in the 00:39:06.369 --> 00:39:09.170 Global South are experiencing the same challenges. 00:39:09.789 --> 00:39:13.909 One of the most vibrant cities at night is Cairo 00:39:13.909 --> 00:39:16.969 in Egypt. It's really a city that doesn't sleep. 00:39:17.269 --> 00:39:21.030 Many cities in China as well had the same perception 00:39:21.030 --> 00:39:25.440 in Delhi. I was staying in the area of the station, 00:39:25.579 --> 00:39:28.599 and you can really see that the Pajangarh area, 00:39:28.780 --> 00:39:33.699 the main bazaar area, is a place where people 00:39:33.699 --> 00:39:36.900 are still there during the night. They still 00:39:36.900 --> 00:39:41.619 sell food or stroll around. So there's a very 00:39:41.619 --> 00:39:45.099 different way of living in the cities, of living 00:39:45.099 --> 00:39:50.940 in the public space. And I saw also... something 00:39:50.940 --> 00:39:53.440 more similar to our concept of nighttime economy 00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:57.579 in Mumbai, which was really interesting also 00:39:57.579 --> 00:40:03.059 in terms of zoning policies and also the vibrance 00:40:03.059 --> 00:40:08.639 of some cultural and entertainment spots. So 00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:12.960 I saw the diversity of this series, of this urban 00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:16.519 context, and I need to say that this global side 00:40:16.519 --> 00:40:19.349 of the... of the action that we are doing with 00:40:19.349 --> 00:40:22.590 Cities After Dark is very important. I was in 00:40:22.590 --> 00:40:26.389 Australia at the end of October for two weeks. 00:40:26.570 --> 00:40:29.469 I was invited there by the government of the 00:40:29.469 --> 00:40:33.429 New South Wales, the state of Sydney, which is 00:40:33.429 --> 00:40:36.369 the first state in the world to have a minister 00:40:36.369 --> 00:40:40.909 in charge of nighttime economy during the sports. 00:40:41.070 --> 00:40:45.210 So they have a huge office of 50 persons guided 00:40:45.210 --> 00:40:49.570 by the nighttime commissioner. which is in charge 00:40:49.570 --> 00:40:52.469 of defining policies for making in -presence 00:40:52.469 --> 00:40:55.610 more vibrant in different areas of the state. 00:40:55.710 --> 00:40:58.769 So not only in Sydney and its metropolitan area, 00:40:58.869 --> 00:41:02.789 but also in Byron Bay or in other parts of the 00:41:02.789 --> 00:41:07.150 state. And Australia is working a lot on that. 00:41:07.170 --> 00:41:09.070 It's working a lot on the impact, on calculating 00:41:09.070 --> 00:41:12.230 the impact of a nighttime economy using different 00:41:12.230 --> 00:41:14.349 sets of data. It's something that we are trying 00:41:14.349 --> 00:41:17.369 also to transfer to our cities. which are involved 00:41:17.369 --> 00:41:19.449 in Cities After Dark. So what I can see is that 00:41:19.449 --> 00:41:22.989 this network is gaining global attention because 00:41:22.989 --> 00:41:25.789 we are focusing on something that is important 00:41:25.789 --> 00:41:29.130 for different types of cities, for cities in 00:41:29.130 --> 00:41:31.269 America, in Canada, or in Australia, but also 00:41:31.269 --> 00:41:34.429 in the global south. So I really think that one 00:41:34.429 --> 00:41:38.030 of the next frontiers is to support cities from 00:41:38.030 --> 00:41:43.969 India or Southeast Asia or Africa to create night 00:41:43.969 --> 00:41:47.739 policies. based on what they already have, based 00:41:47.739 --> 00:41:51.840 on the vibrancy of the cities and from the organization 00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:55.800 of public services like waste collection or other 00:41:55.800 --> 00:41:57.960 things happening at night to the valorization 00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:02.739 of bars and clubs, which are really driving the 00:42:02.739 --> 00:42:05.780 cultural life of the cities. Yeah, very nice. 00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:09.900 Simone, you proved me that it's not only a personal 00:42:09.900 --> 00:42:13.179 interest. in going hanging out in bars and cafes 00:42:13.179 --> 00:42:16.179 but there's much more behind that there is much 00:42:16.179 --> 00:42:19.559 more yeah and i could i could talk to you for 00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:21.980 for more hours and i really enjoy when we meet 00:42:21.980 --> 00:42:24.719 that we have to or i'm enjoying it that we meet 00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:27.219 regularly or from time to time to to talk in 00:42:27.219 --> 00:42:29.320 person as well but that leads us already to the 00:42:29.320 --> 00:42:31.460 last question another that would be what would 00:42:31.460 --> 00:42:33.960 you advise to anybody who wants to change anything 00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:37.320 in their cities uh what would be three things 00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:40.860 you would advise to them I would advise people 00:42:40.860 --> 00:42:44.579 to participate in public life, to be part of 00:42:44.579 --> 00:42:47.820 the life of their neighborhoods and contribute 00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:52.719 to change. I would advise people to go out. It's 00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:56.260 something that should not be so much special 00:42:56.260 --> 00:43:01.619 as it is if we consider the war. to the sofa. 00:43:03.039 --> 00:43:05.900 We're fighting right now. It's a big competition. 00:43:07.860 --> 00:43:10.340 Sofa is winning so many times. Yeah, I'm fighting 00:43:10.340 --> 00:43:16.239 it every other day. But it's important. And then 00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:20.760 discover green areas not only during the day 00:43:20.760 --> 00:43:23.440 but also in other times of the day because the 00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:27.960 next frontier is to use parks. in a different 00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:32.000 way than in the past. There are so many parts 00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:35.860 of the city that are closed. I think the schoolyards 00:43:35.860 --> 00:43:39.039 for instance, they are great public spaces. Some 00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:42.139 cities like Paris are starting to use them. We 00:43:42.139 --> 00:43:44.159 have public parks which are usually closed after 00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:49.739 dark, so we need to use these spaces also for 00:43:49.739 --> 00:43:53.280 evening or night activities if we really want 00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:57.820 to take the best of our cities. Some cities are 00:43:57.820 --> 00:44:01.079 also using the beach at night. Dubai is a keeping 00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:04.199 beach at night because it's too hot to go there 00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:07.199 to the beach during the day. And so use this 00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:10.059 kind of things that are in front of us so we 00:44:10.059 --> 00:44:12.880 see them every day. If you live on the seaside, 00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:15.659 you see the beach, you see the seaside, but often 00:44:15.659 --> 00:44:18.800 people don't use it. If you are in Rome, sometimes 00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:24.059 you see archaeological ruins or you see parks, 00:44:24.179 --> 00:44:27.099 but you don't use them at night. So using them 00:44:27.099 --> 00:44:30.059 at night in a very innovative way can be important 00:44:30.059 --> 00:44:34.019 for fostering a change that is not after dark, 00:44:34.119 --> 00:44:38.800 but it's during the 24 hours. Very nice, Simona. 00:44:38.820 --> 00:44:40.760 And pro tip for those people living in Vienna, 00:44:40.900 --> 00:44:45.380 if you go to Schönbrunn Park and Schönbrunn Castle 00:44:45.380 --> 00:44:49.199 and let yourself be locked into the park at night, 00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:51.519 it's wonderful because there's no people and 00:44:51.519 --> 00:44:54.280 it's really nice. And the security guards might 00:44:54.280 --> 00:44:56.059 be annoyed with you a little bit, but they're 00:44:56.059 --> 00:45:00.559 okay. They will let you go. All right, Simone, 00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:02.619 thank you so much for the talk. I really much 00:45:02.619 --> 00:45:07.019 enjoyed it. And yeah, today you fly to Spain 00:45:07.019 --> 00:45:09.599 still. So I hope you have a good trip. Thank 00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:13.239 you. Thank you, Ernest. See you soon. See you. 00:45:13.340 --> 00:45:17.659 Bye. That's all for today. I hope the next time 00:45:17.659 --> 00:45:21.320 you go out at night, the next time you win the 00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:26.179 fight against the sofa, you see the city at night 00:45:26.179 --> 00:45:29.429 with a different set of eyes. If you like the 00:45:29.429 --> 00:45:32.690 show, make sure to leave a comment, to rate the 00:45:32.690 --> 00:45:34.550 show and subscribe to the channel. And to play 00:45:34.550 --> 00:45:37.590 you out today, we're going to go back to the 00:45:37.590 --> 00:45:40.550 usual post -punk tune. Because if you ask me, 00:45:40.610 --> 00:45:42.369 that's much better than the Berlin style techno. 00:45:42.869 --> 00:45:45.289 Okay, good night and I hope to catch you soon.