Hi, welcome back to the Cities Reimagined Podcast.
The show where we discuss all kinds of aspects related to alternative urban futures.
I'm your host, Johannes Riedler.
You might be wondering about the intro song of this episode.
The song is called This Day Is Mine by the band Boys Club and was released back in 2008.
And my guest this week, Stefan Fugge, is not only an editor for the regional media in Carinthia,
Austria, but he was also the frontman of the band Boys Club.
And you will hear more about that, about our backgrounds in alternative music in the interview.
This episode of the Cities Reimagined Podcast is about the role of local journalism for
reimagining futures.
Currently, we see that there's more and more media coverage on climate crisis, the biodiversity
crisis and related anthropogenic topics in the media.
However, a lot of the reporting on, for example, climate change scenarios and in how far the
atmosphere will continue to warm if greenhouse gas emissions are not cut drastically are
difficult for many people to grasp.
And it seems to be abstract and oftentimes unrelatable to the everyday life of many.
Studies show that highlighting the local impacts of climate change is motivational for many
for behavior change and action.
On the other side, when people perceive the effects of global crisis as distance and taking
place somewhere else on the other side of the planet, for example, they might feel powerless
and disengaged.
For that reason, the news media can play an important role by framing stories in a manner
that emphasizes the local perspectives alongside the global scale.
But is that really the local media's task to do so and what skill sets and interests
are required to do so?
Over the last years, I've been talking and exchanging regularly with my good friend Stefan
Fugger on urban development in Klangfurt and in Carinthia as such.
Klangfurt is a city which is, I would say, not exactly known for doing things differently
where there is little culture of shaping urban futures together, a little culture of co-creation
and not many people seem to challenge the conventional paradigms.
And it seems very difficult to change things and to steer things up over here.
Stefan is an editor for the newspaper Regional Media Carinthia, which is a local newspaper
and news outlet which reaches every household in the region as it gets shipped to every
household freely.
They also have a strong online presence in recent years.
And Stefan increasingly covered very local stories related to climate change and interviewed
a diverse range of people in the area who are concerned about urban development.
We recorded the interview in August 2023 in Klangfurt.
As I'm editing the interview now two days later, the region was hit by the heaviest rainfall
ever recorded.
The rain almost hasn't stopped in 48 hours, which caused officials to call for code red.
And in some parts of the region, almost 300 liters of rainfall per square meter in just
two days, which caused catastrophic floodings, landslides and avalanches of large masses
of rocks.
Streets and buildings have been destroyed and there are a couple of villages in the
mountains which are completely cut off for days now.
Nearly across the border to Slovenia, which is only some 30 kilometers from Klangfurt,
the situation is looking even worse, including human casualties.
And it's not just over yet.
And it has a very dystopian feel to it, recording this intro and edit a podcast inside here
while outside the sirens go off every other minute.
So the effects of the climate crisis clearly are observable here in the region and it's
only expected to get worse with rising CO2 levels.
So it was time for me to sit down with Stefan and find out about the role of local media
and local journalism in linking this very local effects and this highly complex state
of human crisis caused by human activity.
Hey Stefan, it's so nice to be here with you in a basement in Klangfurt.
How are you doing?
Oh, fine, thanks.
I love being in a basement, especially this room with a lot of instruments.
It reminds me of my youth and my younger days.
We are in the south of Austria at the moment in a city called Klangfurt and I cannot imagine
a better room to have this interview in with you.
So we are very comfortable in a very humid and damp rehearsal room in a youth center
in Klangfurt.
Where actually 20 years ago this was a kind of infrastructure for the local punk rock
and hardcore scene with a lot of concerts where people met and it was a kind of institutions.
And I'm very happy that we got the key to this rehearsal space from my good friend Mike
Galishnik from the band Dorkatron, which is really cool.
And this is also, I have to say Stefan, we know each other for some 20 years due to this
punk and hardcore scene, which was at its peak, I would say, in the early 2000s.
And I think you contributed to that a lot by playing in a lot of bands at that time.
That was at one Störcenter, Anymotion, later on Boys Club.
But also you organized a lot of concerts yourself with Modeshow collectives and you actually
run the coolest club in town back then, the Running Sushi Indie Club, which somehow put
Klangfurt on the map internationally when it comes to the scene, I would say.
How did being part of this DIY, do-it-yourself ethic or this culture at that time, very
political subculture shape you and how does it shape your work today?
Thanks for the roses and thanks for the reminder of the good old times.
I think it's always dangerous to live in the past.
So it's great that we are here and we are right now here in a place, in a rehearsal
place and I think it's very symbolic.
Three years ago, I was here to report about the change.
If you think upstairs, there was a concert room, which is now a room for fitness.
So they changed the whole setting, the space which was a space for punks, metalheads, for
young bands is gone and now the youth is not interested in concerts anymore, so they made
a fitness room.
So it shows that the youth is really interested in being healthy, being in good shape, which
is a good thing.
But I think it's also a sign of the time.
We had this really strong community.
We had a lot of fun and we had this thinking that we can change something and we can be
active and create something.
I think it's always about creating something and that you realize that you can change something.
How matter where you come from, I come from a middle family and you don't have to be rich
to organize concerts.
You can do it and you can publish a record.
You can do it.
You just have to be creative and to want it.
I totally agree.
And I think this early 2000s was really, at least in Klagenfurt, this was a very special
time in a way where there were so many people involved in the scene which somehow contributed
to it and somehow felt empowered to just try things out and experience with things.
I think it was great.
What I still take from that time is that you meet someone and you respect him and his opinion,
that you meet eye on eye and you argue about something, that you have different opinions
but you still want to just talk and have a good time.
Today we talk about something else.
We could do a podcast easily on that time as well and it probably would have some entertaining
40 episodes, I would say.
But today we talk about something else and that is very local journalism.
Can you tell us a little bit about your work in local journalism?
How is your job, your daily job?
What do you do?
Okay.
My daily job is to report about local news.
I'm not interested in international news so what Russia is doing doesn't matter to me
but I can bring an example.
When the war started against Ukraine, I had this interview with a young woman from
Ukraine.
She came to Kerensia and I had an interview with her, how she felt, how the war started
and it was a very emotional story and I was really touched.
And so I felt even if you're in Kerensia, in a really safe place and you think you're
not a war reporter, I'm just a simple journalist, can interview someone who saw this war, who
felt this war and who experienced this war.
It was really strange and terrifying.
It might be the role of good local journalism, if you will, if you break down this very global
event, where the world is heading to a very local level.
You just said that by what is going on in Ukraine and Russia, how that translates into
a very safe place in Kerensia.
What are the effects, what are the stories behind this global crisis and war to the local
level in Klagenfurt.
Climate change has arrived in Europe and especially also in this region so there's almost nobody
who doesn't see the effects of climate change unless they live under a rock, I would say.
And how do you perceive these changes in this region, these effects of climate change, biodiversity
crisis, all these kind of changes in the atmosphere and in the global ecology, how do you perceive
that?
Just yesterday I had an interview with an operator of a campsite near Lake Vertasee.
During heavy rain the roads become impassable.
It's not a threatening situation but it's rather unpleasant.
So the guy told me the people are not very amused about this.
Kids find it funny that the streets are full of water.
So he wants to ask the politicians, the responsible people, what can they do that it doesn't happen
again.
Okay?
So the heavy rain is resulting, has a negative effect.
This is a sign of soil sealing and this is really an important topic.
In my opinion Klagenfurt or the politicians are not aware of these dangers.
They have to react.
They have something in common.
They want to change it but it's too slowly.
The climate is changing faster than the laws are coming.
Do you perceive in your work that there is an increasing awareness of these kind of connections?
For example what you just described, the soil sealing and increased risk of flooding and
also is there an awareness among not only politicians but in society as such that climate
change is really going to affect this region and central Europe as well?
In my opinion as far as I can see it politicians are more aware of it and it doesn't matter
from which party they come from.
Whether it's left wing or right wing or middle.
Poland is part of the EU mission, the 100 climate neutral smart cities so they have
this tool which is really great.
They promote this tool but I don't think they do it fast enough.
And you don't have to forget the citizen.
The citizen also has a lot of responsibilities and ways of acting and changing.
As far as I see the citizen is not aware of it.
Yeah, what you just described, just for those who are not very familiar with this EU mission,
so the EU mission on climate neutral cities is 100 cities across Europe have been selected
to who have a high ambition to become climate neutral by 2030 which is like in seven years.
And it's very challenging or a very ambitious target I would say.
I would totally agree that it's essential to take the people, the residents and whoever
uses the city aboard of this transformation because in the end it touches everybody's
life.
But do you have some ideas how you could break that, not you personally but how that could
be, how citizens or residents could be made more aware of this need to change towards
or transform towards climate neutrality and how that connects in the end also to this
extreme weather events which we see at the moment?
That's a really hard question.
Right now citizens are too lame and they are not willing to change their lives so it's
very uncomfortable to leave their car at home and use the bicycle.
I do it for myself so I don't accept myself from this.
I'm also very lame.
I think the best practice shows how the mindset is still missing is that we have this project
where the street to the station apart of 60 meters from this street was closed for cars.
Politicians didn't make it to convince the people that this is space, that this is valuable
space where they can dance, where they can hang around, where they just have a cup of
coffee.
They had tables where people could work.
The people had this chance but they didn't realize the chance.
Nowadays I have more this outside looking in look onto Klagenfurt so I don't get the
details.
I just see a little bit what is happening and what is changing and how the ambitions
change and what is happening in the public space.
But what I think is missing often times, not only in Klagenfurt, is a common vision, a
common goal which is co-created with the people living in the city.
We want to achieve this and this will be great for our city.
Having a plan, going in a certain direction and taking everybody or whoever wants to be
on board, there will always be people who will not be on board and that's fine.
That's democracy.
But co-creating something with the people, common vision where you can work towards.
Do you have some ideas how urban development can be communicated better to residents and
how they can be taken on board of this process?
That's really a hard question.
I can tell you that the politicians of the city Klagenfurt presented an urban development
concept.
They have this concept which is called urban development concept 2025, which is in two
years.
So, I guess people are willing to change but they don't understand.
They don't get the message how to create a positive effect for the city.
Yesterday we had this news about a star.
Everybody knows him.
But I can see that it didn't resonate so well.
Did not many people open the story?
It wasn't very successful.
Two hours after that I published an article on our Facebook site about an IT company.
They are planning to rebuild a location which is more than 200 years old.
They said they don't want a new building on the Green Meadow.
They want an old building.
Four buildings have monument protection.
They are really in catastrophic shape.
I saw that a lot of people resonated to this article.
So we reached more than 10,000 people with this article.
So I see that people are interested in how can resources be reduced.
Because when this company goes this way, they don't have to consume so many resources.
We know all that resources.
So many resources are wasted from the building.
I think this is a good way.
A modern company shows us there is a way and that you can reconstruct old buildings.
I think this is a very good example.
This building, I think it was from the monarchy.
A horse stable and storage for the food for the horses, if I remember correctly.
And it has been vacant for 17 years.
Homeless people lived there.
They destroyed a lot of infrastructure.
But he has his plan.
But it's great because also the fact that so many people opened the stories shows that
they're interested in what is happening in their immediate surrounding.
So they're more interested in the redevelopment of this building than on Prince being on vacation
in the city.
And this also translates to what you said earlier that there is this climate crisis
and the effects of the climate crisis.
And I think this is a very interesting point to how local media can make this connection
between these global effects which somehow materialize in a very local space and what
can be done.
How can you redevelop vacant buildings in a way that they consume less resources, less
space, less green space and so on?
It's really, really, I think it's the politicians, they have to bring the message better in.
The concept is great, but nobody understands this concept.
You have to be an urban developer.
You have to be just like you.
You are into these kind of stories.
But the citizen doesn't know it.
They just want to see how they can make ends meet.
What do you think is the role of local media to reimagine cities and region and overcome
this non-sustainable status quo?
I'm asking this question because we know that there is not any more information deficit
on climate change.
Nobody knows basically that we need to transform.
How can local journalism spread knowledge and also inspiring stories of change and transformation
to a larger audience?
That's a really good question and perhaps you get something wrong.
I don't see myself as someone who wants to influence someone else.
That's not my role.
As a media we have to publish stories which are interesting to read.
But I think you kind of do.
You bring these inspiring stories.
You get them out there.
I can tell you a lot of examples.
We already talked about this before we recorded this.
I was at a press conference to the urban development concept.
After that I wanted to make a photo with the two politicians and it was a really great
space under the trees.
But it was hard to make a photo because there were so many cars parking there.
And so I wrote this in the first sentence so that everybody sees that the city is not
ready to reduce the car.
And we have this concept but we are not ready.
We have to change.
And I absolutely love that line of yours to this article.
Do you think local media should be more critical when reporting about local news and local
urban development projects?
Of course.
That's our responsibility.
I have to admit that sometimes we, especially me, are not too critical.
I have this example.
There is this rural community.
We know that in small villages stores are closing.
People move away.
So I heard about a new building project.
I found out that it was a supermarket.
But the supermarket was not located in the center of the village.
It was five kilometers away.
I didn't get it.
I asked the mayor why is this new supermarket five kilometers away?
He said it's fine.
Yeah, these ideas.
I don't know.
It is the situation where you show like, okay, the city or the town has an ambition but what
they are doing is the complete opposite of implementing that vision.
I think there's a lot of time this is happening, especially when you think about zones and
space which is sealed.
They don't want it but in fact they do it.
I totally agree with you.
I think it would be great or is an important aspect of local media to show these contradictions
what is between visions and reality.
I find that a very fascinating and interesting aspect of what you just said, task of local
media.
Not only bringing the stories but actually making these connections between different
new segments and developments.
But of course it also requires from whoever is writing the stories to make these links
and be aware of this great larger picture maybe in which these stories are embedded
in.
And also you have to be an expert in rezoning.
You have to be an expert in how zones are developed and which laws are at hand there.
So this is not an easy thing.
Sure.
It's hard.
We have a lot of times we have this topic about rezoning.
You can't rezone an area if there is a zone for building infrastructure.
It is.
You can't bring it back.
So first politicians, some are starting to rethink.
They see the value from space because I think 30 years ago, 40 years ago they were like
we have to rezone so many spaces.
But nowadays they are starting slowly to realize which.
I think so too and I think it will only come, at least that's my hope.
I'm an optimist so I hope they recognize that sooner than later that by changing zoning,
especially in this region which has suburbanization of every small town, eats into the landscape
like cancer.
It is really crazy here I would say.
Which triggers all these other effects like the dependency on cars and a lot of other
problems related to that.
Where do you see local media go from here?
What is the vision for your work on the newspaper for the next 10 years?
Local media can do one thing.
They can bring topics into discourse.
They can make people talk about something.
They can make people regard something.
I think that's our role.
To show the possibilities, to show new ways.
New ways, how can we change the world, how can we change the city.
For me I'm really interested in how the city is changing and how a city or a rural area
can change in a positive way.
Coming back to our punk and hardcore background, I really have the feeling that the subculture
we were part of in the early 2000s was banning boundaries.
There was such an active scene and an ecosystem really where many people contributed in one
way or the other and put this small and very sleepy town on the map nationally and internationally
when it comes to punk and hardcore.
How do you perceive the role of Klangfurt culturally in a region which is very reactionist,
traditional and I would also say not too welcoming for change and transformation.
I would love to see a spirit again like the one we had in the early 2000s where it seemed
like anything is possible at least in the subculture.
You just experiment, you inspire other people, you get your classmates into this and you
have something to strive and to work out on the go.
I think these days are over and we have to accept it.
But as far as I can see the youth, they are very interested and they are very emotional
and they are very clever and they want to change some things.
But I think they are, I can't explain it.
Perhaps they are afraid.
Perhaps they are not angry enough.
I miss something, some kind of anger.
Aggressive anger because punk and hardcore is very aggressive.
It's full of anger and this is a power you can take and this fascinates me from my youngest
days on.
As far as I can see the youth nowadays is very comfortable.
Perhaps they are a little bit too comfortable and they should feel this anger.
Bringing that back to climate crisis and biodiversity and that kind of discussion that there is
a lot of climate anxiety increasingly, especially in young people who feel robbed of their future
potentially.
That brings us back somehow to, at least to me, to very local newspaper reporting.
Because you break down again what we discussed already, these global trends, these challenges
into very local ground.
Because climate anxiety often comes with feeling hopeless and feeling not knowing what strings
to pull and how to connect to a certain topic.
But local media can break it down to young people or also older people to make it somehow
tangible, to somehow make it in Germany, I would say, ungräfbar.
It's also our, when we talk about the future, how can we reach young people and how, I just
want to tell young people that they can write us.
Every young citizen can write me an email and say there's something going wrong.
And you're a father of two, right?
How angry are your kids in general?
My kids are not angry at all.
I think they're very interested.
They are interested in climate change.
They're interested in politicians.
What age are they in now?
Eleven and thirteen.
You know, with the older one, I love to watch tip.
Tip, yeah.
That's the national news on TV.
And when something about politicians is coming, my older son is really, really, it's exciting
for him.
Yeah, that's cool.
That brings us to the last question of today.
And I would say almost the most important question of this interview.
What are the top three punk and hardcore songs to change the world?
Okay, it's really, really hard for me.
Okay, the first one is Black Flag, Rise Above.
Yes.
The second, I would say it's a Dead Kennedy song because Cello Piafra, for me, is such
a smart guy.
When I read about him and his opinions, it also changed me.
I think it's Holiday in Cambodia.
And the third one is a cover version.
I love Sick of It All, We Stand Alone.
And they cover Betray from Minor Threat.
It's hard for me to just mention one song, but I love whole albums.
I think this We Stand Alone, Sick of It All album is so great because it's this anger
I was talking about, this positive anger which can create something.
Yeah, that's great.
Thank you so much, Stefan, for your time and willingness to talk to me in this very damp
rehearsal space.
It's really cool.
Thank you so much.
If you feel angry about something in Klagenfurt, send an email to Stefan.
He might take it.
Don't be shy.
He might take it up.
Thank you so much.
I say thank you.
That was my chat with Stefan Fugger from Regionale Media in Carinthia.
If you liked this episode, please subscribe to the series Rematch podcast to not miss
any shows in the future.
I would absolutely love to hear from you.
Please get in touch with me via the Cities Rematch and social media channels or via email.
That is johannes at anthropocene.city.
To play you out of this episode, here's another song by one of Stefan's projects.
This one is by Der Schwarze Spam and the song is called A Ministry of Reconciliation.
I highly recommend that you check out the other work of Stefan, also of the band Boys
Club.
Besides many things, Klagenfurt is known for its very notorious dark, gray and foggy
winters.
So if you ever happen to be in the city between, let's say, mid-October, end of October and
mid-February and you walk the streets and it's foggy, make sure you listen to Der Schwarze
Spam because I think it captures the feeling you get from walking the streets perfectly.
This was all for today.
I hope you enjoyed the episode.
It has been produced, edited and recorded by myself, Jannis Riegler, and I hope to catch
you soon.
Don't look into my eyes.
I have come to see darkness.
Don't look into my eyes.
I feel sorrow.
I am selfish.
Don't look into my eyes.
I have come to see darkness.
Don't look into my eyes.
I'll tell you lies ain't it fun?
And I know what I've done.
Don't look into my eyes.
I'll tell you lies ain't it fun?
And I know what I've done.
Don't look into my eyes.
I'll tell you lies ain't it fun?
And I know what I've done.
Don't look into my eyes.
I'll tell you lies in the fog and I know what I've done
Don't look into my eyes
I'll tell you lies in the fog and I know what I've done