WEBVTT 00:00:00.430 --> 00:00:02.890 When I first set out to create this podcast, 00:00:03.270 --> 00:00:05.929 my goal was to explore the Israeli -Palestinian 00:00:05.929 --> 00:00:09.689 conflict in depth. Looking not only at violence, 00:00:09.750 --> 00:00:12.509 but also at the political structures, history, 00:00:12.890 --> 00:00:16.050 and human consequences behind it. I envisioned 00:00:16.050 --> 00:00:18.989 multiple series and episodes to unpack the topic 00:00:18.989 --> 00:00:22.429 layer by layer. However, the ongoing devastation 00:00:22.429 --> 00:00:25.109 and war have intensified the suffering of people 00:00:25.109 --> 00:00:28.309 in Gaza and widened divisions around the world. 00:00:28.949 --> 00:00:32.460 Media bias. misinformation, and the flood of 00:00:32.460 --> 00:00:35.000 shallow commentary from influencers who lack 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:37.899 real understanding have only deepened confusion. 00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:42.259 Some frame this as a religious clash, while others 00:00:42.259 --> 00:00:45.479 sensationalize it as the spark of a third world 00:00:45.479 --> 00:00:49.600 war, echoing how many overreacted to events like 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:52.380 the war in Ukraine or the killing of Iranian 00:00:52.380 --> 00:00:58.380 general Qasem Soleimani. Before we go any further, 00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:02.380 I want to make one thing absolutely clear. My 00:01:02.380 --> 00:01:05.299 purpose here is to advocate for peace. I condemn 00:01:05.299 --> 00:01:07.799 the actions of both Hamas and the Israeli government, 00:01:08.180 --> 00:01:10.900 as well as the systemic oppression the Palestinian 00:01:10.900 --> 00:01:13.900 people continue to endure. I do not tolerate 00:01:13.900 --> 00:01:17.900 anti -Semitism or Islamophobia in any form, and 00:01:17.900 --> 00:01:20.920 I reject the killing, kidnapping, and torture 00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:24.459 of innocent civilians, no matter who they are. 00:01:26.140 --> 00:01:28.989 It is essential to remember this. The people 00:01:28.989 --> 00:01:31.950 of Gaza and the West Bank, like ordinary people 00:01:31.950 --> 00:01:36.329 anywhere, do not reject peace. Their voices deserve 00:01:36.329 --> 00:01:38.969 to be heard above the noises of mainstream media 00:01:38.969 --> 00:01:43.090 narratives focused only on Hamas. These are human 00:01:43.090 --> 00:01:47.370 beings who want safety and dignity. Even within 00:01:47.370 --> 00:01:50.390 Hamas, there are factions that claim to seek 00:01:50.390 --> 00:01:53.969 peace, though not the same peace promoted by 00:01:53.969 --> 00:01:58.480 global powers or the media. Peace is subjective. 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:02.359 It's shaped by lived experience and context. 00:02:03.180 --> 00:02:06.340 Most civilians in Gaza and the West Bank don't 00:02:06.340 --> 00:02:10.080 hate Jews or Israelis. What they reject is the 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:13.919 occupation. If you spoke with them, many would 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:17.319 simply ask, why am I a refugee in my own land? 00:02:18.060 --> 00:02:23.889 What did Palestinians do to deserve this? Both 00:02:23.889 --> 00:02:27.789 Israelis and Palestinians deserve safety, sovereignty, 00:02:28.310 --> 00:02:31.009 and a homeland, just like anyone else in the 00:02:31.009 --> 00:02:34.250 world. But we have to confront a difficult truth. 00:02:35.069 --> 00:02:39.069 Absolute justice rarely exists. The world is 00:02:39.069 --> 00:02:43.150 harsh, and injustice often prevails. So we have 00:02:43.150 --> 00:02:46.349 to choose courage and conviction, to stand for 00:02:46.349 --> 00:02:49.310 what's right even when success seems impossible. 00:02:50.069 --> 00:02:53.930 Strength, resistance, and hope, are sometimes 00:02:53.930 --> 00:02:57.030 the only ways people can survive oppression and 00:02:57.030 --> 00:03:02.289 remind the world that they exist. The international 00:03:02.289 --> 00:03:05.169 community has consistently failed the Palestinians. 00:03:05.810 --> 00:03:09.129 Too often, blame is placed on them rather than 00:03:09.129 --> 00:03:11.949 on the systems of occupation that strip them 00:03:11.949 --> 00:03:15.590 of basic rights and humanity. Major media outlets 00:03:15.590 --> 00:03:18.129 have refused to hold Israel accountable for repeated 00:03:18.129 --> 00:03:21.090 violations of international law, including the 00:03:21.090 --> 00:03:23.629 demolition of homes, destruction of infrastructure, 00:03:24.289 --> 00:03:27.750 and denial of food, water, and medical access. 00:03:28.490 --> 00:03:32.490 These acts are crimes. Recognizing and addressing 00:03:32.490 --> 00:03:37.169 them is not bias. It's moral consistency. The 00:03:37.169 --> 00:03:40.550 press and global leaders must stop distorting 00:03:40.550 --> 00:03:43.370 the story and confront the roots of the crisis, 00:03:43.930 --> 00:03:47.949 not just its symptoms. Real justice for Palestine 00:03:47.949 --> 00:03:51.509 requires acknowledgement, accountability, and 00:03:51.509 --> 00:03:57.409 tangible international support. The way Western 00:03:57.409 --> 00:04:00.949 media and many online creators have framed the 00:04:00.949 --> 00:04:04.270 Israel -Palestine conflict is ethnically indefensible 00:04:04.270 --> 00:04:07.849 in the 21st century. Portraying both sides as 00:04:07.849 --> 00:04:11.110 equal opponents erases the reality of occupation. 00:04:11.969 --> 00:04:14.889 This isn't asymmetrical conflict. It has been 00:04:14.889 --> 00:04:19.149 ongoing for more than a century, defined by dispossession, 00:04:19.509 --> 00:04:23.379 forced displacement, and systemic violence. The 00:04:23.379 --> 00:04:26.720 occupying power with vastly greater resources 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:31.339 and control bears primary responsibility. Equating 00:04:31.339 --> 00:04:34.939 it with a stateless, besieged population fighting 00:04:34.939 --> 00:04:38.620 to survive is not journalism. It's propaganda. 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:44.319 Western governments continue to fund and arm 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:47.019 the most powerful military in the Middle East, 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:50.850 with billions in taxpayer dollars. while Palestinians 00:04:50.850 --> 00:04:54.709 lack even the tools to rebuild their homes. It's 00:04:54.709 --> 00:04:58.129 like comparing a chess grandmaster to an amateur. 00:04:58.730 --> 00:05:01.930 One has all the pieces, the other barely has 00:05:01.930 --> 00:05:07.329 a board. Power defines this relationship, and 00:05:07.329 --> 00:05:11.850 impunity sustains it. Israel acts without meaningful 00:05:11.850 --> 00:05:15.589 consequences, while Palestinians face collective 00:05:15.589 --> 00:05:19.600 punishment for simply existing. There is no symmetry 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:26.540 here, morally, militarily, or politically. To 00:05:26.540 --> 00:05:29.879 illustrate this imbalance, I'll refer to a powerful 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:33.120 hypothetical described by the late writer, political 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:36.660 commentator, and comedian Michael Brooks when 00:05:36.660 --> 00:05:40.560 discussing Gaza. Imagine millions of Jewish refugees 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:44.439 relocating to the West Bank and Gaza. Suppose 00:05:44.439 --> 00:05:46.899 an Arab government takes control of Jerusalem 00:05:46.899 --> 00:05:49.990 and Tel Aviv. walling off the Jewish population 00:05:49.990 --> 00:05:53.310 in an open -air prison like Gaza, bombing their 00:05:53.310 --> 00:05:57.089 neighborhoods, cutting off food, water, and electricity, 00:05:57.649 --> 00:06:01.750 and declaring that Jews must be sent back to 00:06:01.750 --> 00:06:05.310 the Middle Ages. That's not an exaggeration. 00:06:05.949 --> 00:06:10.050 An Israeli official, Matan Vilnai, said exactly 00:06:10.050 --> 00:06:14.029 that about Gaza in 2008. Picture Jewish villages 00:06:14.029 --> 00:06:17.300 constantly harassed by armed settlers unable 00:06:17.300 --> 00:06:20.600 to use certain roads or access essential services 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:24.519 due to their ethnicity. In that reverse scenario, 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:27.680 the world would almost certainly recognize their 00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:32.839 suffering and their right to resist. That thought 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:35.579 experiment exposes what this conflict really 00:06:35.579 --> 00:06:38.899 is. Not a symmetrical fight between two sides 00:06:38.899 --> 00:06:42.000 who hate each other, but an issue of occupation, 00:06:42.379 --> 00:06:46.339 power, and human rights. It forces us to ask, 00:06:46.589 --> 00:06:50.269 Is the world truly concerned with justice? Or 00:06:50.269 --> 00:06:54.089 only with which victims are easier to ignore? 00:06:55.269 --> 00:06:58.089 This isn't about Hamas. I reject their ideology 00:06:58.089 --> 00:07:01.189 and I do not excuse attacks on civilians. The 00:07:01.189 --> 00:07:04.170 point is the century -long injustice Palestinians 00:07:04.170 --> 00:07:08.269 have faced, stretching back to 1917 and even 00:07:08.269 --> 00:07:11.589 earlier, a sustained denial of basic rights. 00:07:12.430 --> 00:07:15.829 This is about policies that isolate, dispossess, 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:19.540 and control Palestinians. About unlawful practices 00:07:19.540 --> 00:07:23.500 and daily indignities that are normalized. About 00:07:23.500 --> 00:07:26.800 a world that recognizes their suffering only 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:30.560 when it's convenient. It's about the double standards 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:34.019 in the international response. The selective 00:07:34.019 --> 00:07:37.860 outrage, the evasive language, and the unwillingness 00:07:37.860 --> 00:07:41.439 to confront the structural realities of occupation. 00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:47.199 John F. Kennedy put it succinctly, Quote, those 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:50.360 who make peaceful revolution impossible will 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:53.920 make violent revolution inevitable. End quote. 00:07:54.660 --> 00:07:56.639 The lesson is not an endorsement of violence 00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:00.079 but a warning. When institutions shut the door 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:03.220 on peaceful change, when democratic demands are 00:08:03.220 --> 00:08:06.800 ignored or criminalized, people will chase the 00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:10.839 only remaining avenues they see. If we care about 00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:14.779 peace, we must defend the spaces for peaceful 00:08:14.779 --> 00:08:19.569 dissent protest, and negotiation. When those 00:08:19.569 --> 00:08:23.209 spaces collapse, history shows the consequences. 00:08:25.769 --> 00:08:28.410 So for most of this episode, I will be talking 00:08:28.410 --> 00:08:31.970 about radicalism. And I'm using the word deliberately, 00:08:32.529 --> 00:08:35.330 but broadly. Most civilians in the West Bank 00:08:35.330 --> 00:08:38.889 and Gaza are not extremists. A small minority 00:08:38.889 --> 00:08:42.029 subscribes to the ideology championed by Hamas. 00:08:42.350 --> 00:08:45.559 Likewise, Zionism itself contains radical strands, 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:49.419 and many Israelis and Jewish people reject hardline 00:08:49.419 --> 00:08:52.600 Zionist doctrines. That's why it's crucial to 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:56.419 distinguish radicalism from extremism, and resist 00:08:56.419 --> 00:08:59.139 flattening complex political traditions into 00:08:59.139 --> 00:09:04.279 caricatures. Radicalism can be nonviolent, visionary, 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:09.179 and reformist in spirit. Extremism, by contrast, 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:12.889 condenses into coercion, and justifies harm. 00:09:13.549 --> 00:09:17.029 We need a more nuanced public vocabulary that 00:09:17.029 --> 00:09:20.350 recognizes when radicalism is a force for progress 00:09:20.350 --> 00:09:24.870 and when it curdles into exclusion and violence. 00:09:27.190 --> 00:09:31.389 Radicalism and extremism are not the same. Radicalism 00:09:31.389 --> 00:09:35.889 seeks deep, structural transformation. Like political, 00:09:36.450 --> 00:09:41.240 economic, social. By attacking root causes, and 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:45.120 proposing foundational change. It isn't inherently 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:48.639 violent, and has historically driven movements 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:53.240 for enfranchisement, and labor rights, decolonization, 00:09:53.779 --> 00:09:58.240 and civil rights. Extremism is different. It 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:02.799 embraces absolutism, treats opponents as illegitimate, 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:07.080 and often justifies coercion or violence to impose 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:10.509 its worldview. where radicalism can widen civic 00:10:10.509 --> 00:10:13.750 imagination and mobilize people toward durable 00:10:13.750 --> 00:10:18.250 solutions, extremism narrows it and demands obedience. 00:10:20.870 --> 00:10:23.789 When we look at the Israeli -Palestinian context, 00:10:24.409 --> 00:10:27.250 these distinctions matter. On the Palestinian 00:10:27.250 --> 00:10:31.029 side, radical Islamic currents, including groups 00:10:31.029 --> 00:10:34.789 like Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, articulate 00:10:34.789 --> 00:10:38.809 maximalist aims. and have used violence, which 00:10:38.809 --> 00:10:42.070 has produced immense suffering and hardened positions 00:10:42.070 --> 00:10:45.970 across the board. On the Israeli side, radical 00:10:45.970 --> 00:10:49.309 Zionist currents push for permanent control over 00:10:49.309 --> 00:10:52.549 all of historic Palestine and the entrenchment 00:10:52.549 --> 00:10:56.350 or expansion of settlements, often accompanied 00:10:56.350 --> 00:10:59.730 by the dispossession of Palestinians and regular 00:10:59.730 --> 00:11:03.269 confrontation. These hardline projects on both 00:11:03.269 --> 00:11:07.100 sides have reinforced a cycle of escalation and 00:11:07.100 --> 00:11:12.679 eroded the political space for compromise. But 00:11:12.679 --> 00:11:17.220 understanding isn't the same as excusing. Recognizing 00:11:17.220 --> 00:11:21.600 why radical movements emerge, like siege, dispossession, 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:26.700 statelessness, fear, trauma, and impunity, helps 00:11:26.700 --> 00:11:30.120 us focus on causes rather than only symptoms. 00:11:30.620 --> 00:11:34.299 If the international community wants fewer extremists, 00:11:34.740 --> 00:11:38.259 it must address the structures that produce extremism, 00:11:38.820 --> 00:11:42.500 like occupation, collective punishment, settlement 00:11:42.500 --> 00:11:46.799 expansion, unequal legal regimes, and a political 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:51.500 process that rewards vetoes over visions. If 00:11:51.500 --> 00:11:55.080 we want fewer rockets and raids, fewer funerals 00:11:55.080 --> 00:11:59.539 and hostages, we have to defend rights and impunity 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:04.179 and insist on genuine political horizons. Otherwise, 00:12:04.779 --> 00:12:07.720 the warnings in Kennedy's words won't just be 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:10.580 a quote from history. They'll keep forecasting 00:12:10.580 --> 00:12:16.740 our future. To understand radicalism we have 00:12:16.740 --> 00:12:20.679 to start with first principles. What conditions 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:24.580 drive people toward radical ideas and actions? 00:12:25.580 --> 00:12:29.820 How does a society respond to decades of neglect, 00:12:30.500 --> 00:12:34.019 dispossession, humiliation, and state violence? 00:12:34.860 --> 00:12:38.779 And what is a morally coherent response to an 00:12:38.779 --> 00:12:41.740 apartheid -like system that strips people of 00:12:41.740 --> 00:12:45.840 their homes, neighborhoods, culture, history, 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:52.440 and basic humanity? Radicalization is a complex 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:56.340 social and psychological process in which individuals 00:12:56.340 --> 00:13:00.340 or groups adopt far -reaching positions on political 00:13:00.340 --> 00:13:05.120 or social issues, and, in some cases, come to 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:08.600 accept violence or coercion as legitimate tools 00:13:08.600 --> 00:13:12.100 to reshape society. In the Israeli -Palestinian 00:13:12.100 --> 00:13:16.019 context, both radical Islamist currents and radical 00:13:16.019 --> 00:13:19.309 Zionist currents have been invoked to justify 00:13:19.309 --> 00:13:22.889 actions that produce harm and deepen oppression. 00:13:23.870 --> 00:13:27.409 Both are political projects with social bases 00:13:27.409 --> 00:13:31.289 and historical grievances, but they differ in 00:13:31.289 --> 00:13:35.450 methods, goals, and the power available to them. 00:13:36.309 --> 00:13:39.710 Radical Islamist groups have often embraced armed 00:13:39.710 --> 00:13:44.330 struggle and maximalist objectives. Radical Zionist 00:13:44.330 --> 00:13:47.899 currents have pushed for permanent control over 00:13:47.899 --> 00:13:51.360 all of historic Palestine, entrenching settlement 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:55.080 expansion and confronting Palestinians on the 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:59.539 ground. Both currents generate intense controversy 00:13:59.539 --> 00:14:03.940 and have far -reaching consequences. Understanding 00:14:03.940 --> 00:14:08.080 how radicalization works requires attention to 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:12.620 multiple dimensions. Because there is no single 00:14:12.620 --> 00:14:17.059 model that can predict who radicalizes, when, 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:23.120 or why. At its core, radicalization involves 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:26.820 adopting a tightly woven system of beliefs that 00:14:26.820 --> 00:14:30.779 promises clarity and redemption in a world experienced 00:14:30.779 --> 00:14:35.019 as chaotic or unjust, paired with a desire to 00:14:35.019 --> 00:14:37.639 impose those beliefs on the broader society. 00:14:38.620 --> 00:14:43.200 It is multi -causal. Material deprivation and 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.279 state collapse can create openings for radical 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:49.960 movements to provide services, authority, and 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:54.620 identity where states fail. Experiences of humiliation, 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:58.860 trauma, and dehumanization, like at checkpoints, 00:14:59.340 --> 00:15:03.320 under bombardment, amid dispossession, can be 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:07.360 catalytic. Religious narratives can supply meaning, 00:15:07.899 --> 00:15:12.659 vocabulary, and moral certainty. Cultural conflict 00:15:12.830 --> 00:15:16.029 and status anxiety can harden group boundaries 00:15:16.029 --> 00:15:20.289 and make compromise feel like betrayal. None 00:15:20.289 --> 00:15:23.909 of these causes alone is determinative. Together, 00:15:24.350 --> 00:15:30.029 they create a combustible environment. Group 00:15:30.029 --> 00:15:33.669 dynamics are central. People radicalize not only 00:15:33.669 --> 00:15:37.429 because of ideas, but because of belonging. When 00:15:37.429 --> 00:15:40.309 an in -group perceives itself as under existential 00:15:40.309 --> 00:15:43.940 threats from an out -group, loyalty and sacrifice 00:15:43.940 --> 00:15:47.500 become moral imperatives. Charismatic leaders 00:15:47.500 --> 00:15:51.240 accelerate this by simplifying complex realities 00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:55.299 into clear moral binaries, transforming grievance 00:15:55.299 --> 00:15:59.440 into mission. The resulting bonds, forged in 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:03.320 secrecy, danger, and shared hardship, can be 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:07.159 stronger than those of ordinary civic life, giving 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:10.720 adherents purpose and identity that are hard 00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:16.820 to replace. Modernity and globalization often 00:16:16.820 --> 00:16:20.480 intensify these pressures. Rapid social change, 00:16:20.899 --> 00:16:24.340 displacement, and digital echo chambers can produce 00:16:24.340 --> 00:16:28.279 a sense of dislocation and loss of meaning. Where 00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:30.779 traditional institutions fail to provide dignity 00:16:30.779 --> 00:16:35.179 or mobility, radical ideologies step in with 00:16:35.179 --> 00:16:39.440 a totalizing story. Who you are, why you suffer, 00:16:39.980 --> 00:16:45.360 and what must be done. Wars, sieges, and occupations 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:50.500 act as accelerants. They compress time, escalate 00:16:50.500 --> 00:16:54.879 fear, and reward hardliners who promise protection 00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:59.500 and revenge over gradualists who promise reform 00:16:59.500 --> 00:17:06.640 and patience. Ideology matters because it converts 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:10.680 pain into politics. It offers a framework that 00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:14.660 justifies action, identifies enemies, sanctifies 00:17:14.660 --> 00:17:18.880 sacrifice, and binds the individual to the collective. 00:17:19.740 --> 00:17:23.539 Personal histories, like bereavement, humiliation, 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:28.819 carceral experiences, and social isolation all 00:17:28.819 --> 00:17:32.279 interact with ideology to shape trajectories. 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:36.759 The same event can demobilize one person and 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:40.599 radicalize another. depending on context, networks, 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:46.819 and psychological resilience. There are many 00:17:46.819 --> 00:17:50.779 pathways into radicalization. Some people self 00:17:50.779 --> 00:17:54.140 -radicalize through media consumption and online 00:17:54.140 --> 00:17:57.799 communities that normalize extreme views. Others 00:17:57.799 --> 00:18:01.019 are recruited by organized groups that provide 00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:06.140 training, resources, and social support. Educational 00:18:06.140 --> 00:18:10.849 and religious spaces can, in rare cases, be captured 00:18:10.849 --> 00:18:14.569 by hardline actors who launder extremist messages 00:18:14.569 --> 00:18:18.869 through familiar language. Peer networks like 00:18:18.869 --> 00:18:22.970 friends, family, neighborhood influencers, often 00:18:22.970 --> 00:18:26.950 matter more than doctrine. People who return 00:18:26.950 --> 00:18:30.910 from conflict zones can import hardened worldviews 00:18:30.910 --> 00:18:34.349 into their communities. Prisons can function 00:18:34.349 --> 00:18:38.519 as incubators where grievance protection rackets, 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:43.039 and ideological tutoring intersect. Across these 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:48.140 pathways, three elements typically recur. A motivating 00:18:48.140 --> 00:18:52.099 grievance or personal wound, an ideological frame 00:18:52.099 --> 00:18:55.099 that makes sense of that wound and prescribes 00:18:55.099 --> 00:19:00.460 action, and a social milieu that normalizes and 00:19:00.460 --> 00:19:07.210 rewards commitments. is to reduce harm and de 00:19:07.210 --> 00:19:10.970 -escalate, then our analysis must be consistent. 00:19:11.809 --> 00:19:14.970 We can condemn acts of violence unequivocally 00:19:14.970 --> 00:19:18.549 while also naming the structures, like occupation, 00:19:19.230 --> 00:19:23.029 segregation, collective punishment, legal inequality, 00:19:23.789 --> 00:19:28.269 and impunity, that make radicalization more likely. 00:19:29.190 --> 00:19:32.670 Preventing radicalization is not a sermon. It 00:19:32.670 --> 00:19:37.480 is policy. It means expanding political rights, 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:41.440 ending practices that degrade and dispossess, 00:19:41.859 --> 00:19:45.220 ensure accountability for abuse, creating real 00:19:45.220 --> 00:19:48.880 horizons for dignity and mobility, and protecting 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:52.319 the civic spaces where peaceful change is possible. 00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:57.180 Where peaceful avenues are blocked, the logic 00:19:57.180 --> 00:20:00.920 of radicalization becomes self -fulfilling. Where 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:04.970 they are defended and made credible, the logic 00:20:04.970 --> 00:20:11.150 weakens. Understanding radicalization is essential 00:20:11.150 --> 00:20:15.009 if we want to prevent and counter extremism. 00:20:16.069 --> 00:20:19.390 Because radicalization is multifaceted, responses 00:20:19.390 --> 00:20:24.410 must be nuanced and consistent, addressing both 00:20:24.410 --> 00:20:28.930 the deep structural causes and the specific mechanisms 00:20:28.930 --> 00:20:33.890 that pull people toward militancy. Prevention 00:20:33.890 --> 00:20:37.509 and intervention are not peripheral. They are 00:20:37.509 --> 00:20:41.309 the core of any credible strategy to reduce violence 00:20:41.309 --> 00:20:47.069 and strengthen social cohesion. Radicalism's 00:20:47.069 --> 00:20:50.089 impact in Gaza is shaped by the territory's unique 00:20:50.089 --> 00:20:53.970 conditions. It is one of the most densely populated 00:20:53.970 --> 00:20:57.269 places on earth, under blockade and repeated 00:20:57.269 --> 00:21:00.250 bombardment with constrained mobility and scarce 00:21:00.250 --> 00:21:03.359 opportunities. In such a confined environment 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:06.259 where everyday life is saturated by checkpoints, 00:21:06.700 --> 00:21:11.359 surveillance, shortages, and grief, radical ideologies 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:15.339 find oxygen. The absence of economic horizons, 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:18.259 the lack of freedom of movement, and the relentless 00:21:18.259 --> 00:21:22.960 exposure to trauma amplify vulnerability, particularly 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:26.940 among youth who have known little other than 00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:32.589 siege and war. Condemning Hamas' attacks on Israeli 00:21:32.589 --> 00:21:37.549 civilians can be necessary. At the same time, 00:21:37.829 --> 00:21:41.529 acknowledging the role of Israeli policies, like 00:21:41.529 --> 00:21:46.269 occupation, settlement expansion, blockade, and 00:21:46.269 --> 00:21:49.329 unequal legal regimes in shaping Palestinian 00:21:49.329 --> 00:21:53.769 reality is indispensable. Any serious path to 00:21:53.769 --> 00:21:58.130 peace requires holding both truths at once. Rejecting 00:21:58.130 --> 00:22:01.089 violence against civilians while insisting that 00:22:01.089 --> 00:22:03.349 structural oppression and collective punishment 00:22:03.349 --> 00:22:08.509 are unacceptable. The cycle of escalation radicalizes 00:22:08.509 --> 00:22:11.430 more people on both sides, eroding the middle 00:22:11.430 --> 00:22:15.390 ground. This is where international actors, including 00:22:15.390 --> 00:22:18.710 the current administration and future ones, must 00:22:18.710 --> 00:22:22.109 be more than spectators. They should prioritize 00:22:22.109 --> 00:22:25.109 energetic diplomacy, sustain de -escalation, 00:22:25.509 --> 00:22:28.950 and real political horizons. Ceasefire advocacy 00:22:29.210 --> 00:22:32.210 should be paired with meaningful steps toward 00:22:32.210 --> 00:22:36.109 a durable political settlement, not just a pause 00:22:36.109 --> 00:22:41.930 before the next round of devastation. Addressing 00:22:41.930 --> 00:22:45.470 radicalism's roots means grappling with its psychological 00:22:45.470 --> 00:22:49.269 and sociopolitical dynamics. Agreements that 00:22:49.269 --> 00:22:53.230 ignore core grievances, like displacements, statelessness, 00:22:53.470 --> 00:22:56.309 impunity, security, and dignity, tend not to 00:22:56.309 --> 00:23:00.769 last. Dialogue credible education and civic programs, 00:23:01.289 --> 00:23:04.329 and economic initiatives can create alternatives 00:23:04.329 --> 00:23:07.609 to militancy, but they only work when paired 00:23:07.609 --> 00:23:10.329 with rights -based reforms and accountability. 00:23:11.250 --> 00:23:14.710 Otherwise, they look like palliatives layered 00:23:14.710 --> 00:23:20.410 atop injustice. From a psychological viewpoint, 00:23:20.950 --> 00:23:23.990 it is not surprising that some Gazans adopt radical 00:23:23.990 --> 00:23:28.119 positions. In a crowded strip, with limited resources 00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:31.380 and freedom, many experience chronic frustration, 00:23:31.740 --> 00:23:35.119 despair, and a sense that the future is foreclosed. 00:23:35.859 --> 00:23:39.619 That environment is combustible on its own, when 00:23:39.619 --> 00:23:42.759 coupled with recurring airstrikes, incursions, 00:23:43.400 --> 00:23:46.380 settler violence in the broader context, and 00:23:46.380 --> 00:23:49.740 the daily humiliations of occupation. The result 00:23:49.740 --> 00:23:53.660 is a heightened risk of radicalization. Political 00:23:53.660 --> 00:23:58.019 leaders, civil society, media, and cultural figures 00:23:58.019 --> 00:24:00.720 should be willing to investigate not only the 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:03.660 choices of armed groups, but also how systemic 00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:07.480 oppression shapes the ecosystem in which those 00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:12.519 choices become thinkable. Collective trauma is 00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:15.920 a crucial lens. Generations living under siege 00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:19.099 and conflict internalize insecurity and grief, 00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:22.559 with consequences for mental health, social trust, 00:24:22.859 --> 00:24:26.400 and political attitudes. Collective trauma can 00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:29.779 entrench fatalism or produce a hard turn toward 00:24:29.779 --> 00:24:32.759 militancy, especially when there is no visible 00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:36.480 path to safety or dignity. Recognizing these 00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:39.940 dynamics is not about excusing harm. It's about 00:24:39.940 --> 00:24:44.000 designing peace processes and policies that actually 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.700 interrupt the feedback loop between trauma and 00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:54.839 violence. Humanitarian access must be non -negotiable. 00:24:55.140 --> 00:24:58.480 Pressing Israel to ease the blockade, facilitating 00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:01.980 sustained flows of food, water, fuel, electricity, 00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:05.220 and medical supplies, and protecting infrastructure 00:25:05.220 --> 00:25:09.079 are immediate steps that save lives and reduce 00:25:09.079 --> 00:25:12.880 the grievances that fuel radicalization. Washington 00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:16.119 has leverage, using it to constrain excessive 00:25:16.119 --> 00:25:19.099 military action and to incentivize restraint 00:25:19.289 --> 00:25:23.369 is a test of policy coherence. None of this erases 00:25:23.369 --> 00:25:26.190 the conflict's historical, political, and religious 00:25:26.190 --> 00:25:29.849 complexities, but it acknowledges that alleviating 00:25:29.849 --> 00:25:33.170 suffering is a precondition for any credible 00:25:33.170 --> 00:25:38.670 political process. The humanitarian toll in Gaza 00:25:38.670 --> 00:25:42.049 is staggering. Civilians are paying the highest 00:25:42.049 --> 00:25:46.069 price. Homes destroyed, hospitals overwhelmed, 00:25:46.569 --> 00:25:49.940 schools damaged, and basic utilities disrupted. 00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:54.359 U .S. policy should champion international mechanisms 00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:57.380 that address urgent needs while building toward 00:25:57.380 --> 00:26:00.140 long -term arrangements that provide security, 00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:03.299 freedom of movement, and dignified livelihoods 00:26:03.299 --> 00:26:06.940 for Gazans. Humanitarianism without a political 00:26:06.940 --> 00:26:11.660 horizon breeds dependency and despair. A political 00:26:11.660 --> 00:26:15.299 horizon without humanitarian relief is abstraction. 00:26:17.549 --> 00:26:20.589 Domestic politics in Israel adds another layer. 00:26:21.130 --> 00:26:24.069 Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu faces a strategic 00:26:24.069 --> 00:26:27.970 and political bind. While the imperative to protect 00:26:27.970 --> 00:26:31.190 Israeli civilians is clear, the methods chosen, 00:26:31.710 --> 00:26:34.210 especially when they generate large -scale civilian 00:26:34.210 --> 00:26:38.349 casualties, carry several moral, strategic, and 00:26:38.349 --> 00:26:42.670 political costs. Protests in Tel Aviv, Haifa, 00:26:42.950 --> 00:26:45.410 and other cities have already reflected deep 00:26:45.410 --> 00:26:48.420 public frustration with governance, security 00:26:48.420 --> 00:26:51.359 failures, and the broader direction of the country. 00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:55.279 Further escalation risks intensifying domestic 00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:58.000 backlash and shrinking the government's room 00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:03.460 to maneuver diplomatically. The regional picture 00:27:03.460 --> 00:27:07.079 is equally intricate. Saudi Arabia's effort to 00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:10.000 normalize relations with Israel has introduced 00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.039 a volatile variable. Pursuing normalization without 00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:17.630 tangible gains for Palestinians risks alienating 00:27:17.630 --> 00:27:21.349 publics across the Arab and Muslim worlds, undercutting 00:27:21.349 --> 00:27:24.809 regional legitimacy and complicating US diplomacy. 00:27:25.670 --> 00:27:28.609 Riyadh's energy clout means that missteps can 00:27:28.609 --> 00:27:31.650 ripple through global markets. Any realignment 00:27:31.650 --> 00:27:34.849 that sidelines Palestinian rights may generate 00:27:34.849 --> 00:27:38.170 short -term diplomatic headlines, but long -term 00:27:38.170 --> 00:27:43.609 instability. Globally, the stakes are not confined 00:27:43.609 --> 00:27:47.410 to the Middle East. Prolonged wars in Gaza reshapes 00:27:47.410 --> 00:27:50.809 regional power dynamics, strains US relationships, 00:27:51.349 --> 00:27:53.970 and injects uncertainty into energy and financial 00:27:53.970 --> 00:27:57.670 markets. It also reverberates into diaspora communities 00:27:57.670 --> 00:28:01.609 worldwide, polarizing politics and fueling social 00:28:01.609 --> 00:28:04.950 tensions. De -escalation is therefore not just 00:28:04.950 --> 00:28:08.430 a regional imperative, it is a global one, tied 00:28:08.430 --> 00:28:11.329 to broader international security and economic 00:28:11.329 --> 00:28:14.309 stability. The pathway forward is neither quick 00:28:14.430 --> 00:28:18.789 nor simple. But the contours are clear. Immediate 00:28:18.789 --> 00:28:22.009 humanitarian relief, restraint and accountability, 00:28:22.849 --> 00:28:25.150 inclusive diplomacy that engages all relevant 00:28:25.150 --> 00:28:29.069 actors, and a credible political horizon that 00:28:29.069 --> 00:28:32.349 replicates repeated catastrophe with a just and 00:28:32.349 --> 00:28:38.769 durable peace. So that means addressing the psychological 00:28:38.769 --> 00:28:42.859 toll of life in Gaza must be essential. Decades 00:28:42.859 --> 00:28:46.519 of siege -like conditions, overcrowding, scarce 00:28:46.519 --> 00:28:49.759 resources, restricted movement, and the constant 00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:52.640 threat of violence have inflicted profound damage 00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:56.279 on mental health. These conditions breed frustration, 00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:00.119 hopelessness, and anger, which armed groups like 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:03.819 Hamas can exploit to recruit and mobilize. If 00:29:03.819 --> 00:29:06.279 we are serious about breaking the cycle of violence, 00:29:06.700 --> 00:29:09.160 we have to confront these root causes of despair 00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:14.859 alongside condemning attacks on civilians. The 00:29:14.859 --> 00:29:17.720 current administration, and every administration 00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:20.279 that comes after it, needs to lead with diplomacy, 00:29:20.579 --> 00:29:24.859 yes. But diplomacy can't just mean calling for 00:29:24.859 --> 00:29:27.440 a ceasefire on paper and then pretending not 00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:31.339 to see what happens next. When there is a ceasefire, 00:29:31.779 --> 00:29:34.039 and Israel still launches missiles into Gaza, 00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:37.869 that is a violation full stop. You cannot say 00:29:37.869 --> 00:29:40.470 you stand for a rules -based order and then treat 00:29:40.470 --> 00:29:43.509 those violations as background noise. If the 00:29:43.509 --> 00:29:46.190 US is serious about peace, it has to be willing 00:29:46.190 --> 00:29:49.230 to call that out and hold Israel accountable, 00:29:49.630 --> 00:29:52.089 the same way it demands accountability from everyone 00:29:52.089 --> 00:29:56.230 else. Otherwise, diplomacy is just a nicer word 00:29:56.230 --> 00:30:01.450 for enabling. Now, because of everything that's 00:30:01.450 --> 00:30:04.250 happened, we end up circling back to this uncomfortable 00:30:04.250 --> 00:30:08.380 question. Was October 7th Worth it for the Palestinian 00:30:08.380 --> 00:30:13.400 cause? Morally, no. There is no way to justify 00:30:13.400 --> 00:30:15.920 the killings of civilians. The terrorization 00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:19.299 of families and their homes. The taking of hostages. 00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:22.619 And there is no way to justify the mass killings, 00:30:22.980 --> 00:30:25.759 displacement, and starvation that followed in 00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:29.880 Gaza. There is no equation where that is worth 00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:33.440 anything. But politically, we have to be honest 00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:36.259 about what changed. because pretending nothing 00:30:36.259 --> 00:30:41.640 changed is also a lie. Before October 7th, the 00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:44.380 Abraham Accords were marching forward. One by 00:30:44.380 --> 00:30:47.200 one, Arab governments were normalizing with Israel, 00:30:47.660 --> 00:30:50.200 opening embassies, signing investment deals, 00:30:50.579 --> 00:30:53.400 and planning security cooperations, while the 00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:55.839 Palestinian issue was being pushed out of the 00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:59.940 frame. The bet was simple. We can build a new 00:30:59.940 --> 00:31:03.500 Middle East that goes around the Palestinians. 00:31:04.039 --> 00:31:07.380 We don't need to solve occupation. We'll just 00:31:07.380 --> 00:31:11.819 manage it. If that had gone through, if a full 00:31:11.819 --> 00:31:14.779 normalization wave had solidified without serious 00:31:14.779 --> 00:31:18.640 concessions, the Palestinian cause would have 00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:22.339 been more isolated than ever. You'd have a region 00:31:22.339 --> 00:31:26.319 where Israel is plugged into Arab capitals, as 00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:29.759 well as American security guarantees and global 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.609 markets. and the Palestinians are stuck behind 00:31:33.609 --> 00:31:37.230 walls and checkpoints, watching the world move 00:31:37.230 --> 00:31:42.990 on without them. October 7th shattered that illusion. 00:31:43.710 --> 00:31:46.369 Again, it did not free anyone. It did not bring 00:31:46.369 --> 00:31:49.069 justice. But it ripped the cover off a system 00:31:49.069 --> 00:31:51.890 that was trying to normalize itself while millions 00:31:51.890 --> 00:31:54.769 of people remained under occupation and siege. 00:31:55.529 --> 00:31:58.710 Suddenly, The Palestinian issue that elites treated 00:31:58.710 --> 00:32:02.210 like background noise was front page news everywhere. 00:32:03.289 --> 00:32:05.890 There were protests in western capitals, across 00:32:05.890 --> 00:32:09.369 the Arab world, across the global south. Saudi 00:32:09.369 --> 00:32:13.069 Arabia hit pause on normalization. Politicians, 00:32:13.289 --> 00:32:16.650 who liked to talk in vague, both sides language, 00:32:17.190 --> 00:32:19.930 had to answer specific questions about bombardment, 00:32:20.089 --> 00:32:23.349 blockade, and war crimes. The world was forced 00:32:23.349 --> 00:32:27.630 to admit, you cannot build a post -Palestine 00:32:27.630 --> 00:32:31.049 regional order, when Palestine is still bleeding. 00:32:33.529 --> 00:32:36.589 Inside Israel, you can see another layer of this 00:32:36.589 --> 00:32:40.150 story. Before October 7th, Israel was already 00:32:40.150 --> 00:32:43.369 in a deep internal crisis. You've had massive 00:32:43.369 --> 00:32:46.769 protests against Netanyahu, against his judicial 00:32:46.769 --> 00:32:50.329 overhaul, against the growing power of religious 00:32:50.329 --> 00:32:53.829 and ultra -Orthodox parties. The country was 00:32:53.829 --> 00:32:57.130 split. especially between secular Israelis and 00:32:57.130 --> 00:33:00.369 the religious right. For a few weeks after October 00:33:00.369 --> 00:33:04.390 7th, that changed. There was shock. There was 00:33:04.390 --> 00:33:08.170 fear. There was a sense of, we are all in this 00:33:08.170 --> 00:33:12.190 together. But unity built on trauma rarely lasts. 00:33:12.809 --> 00:33:15.529 As the war went on, as the scale of destruction 00:33:15.529 --> 00:33:18.789 in Gaza became undeniable, as hostages stayed 00:33:18.789 --> 00:33:22.250 in captivity, the old cracks opened up again. 00:33:22.549 --> 00:33:27.980 And in some ways, They got deeper. Now you have 00:33:27.980 --> 00:33:32.579 a society arguing over everything. What is victory? 00:33:33.059 --> 00:33:36.339 How far do we go? Who is responsible for the 00:33:36.339 --> 00:33:39.579 failures of October 7th? What kind of state is 00:33:39.579 --> 00:33:42.559 Israel supposed to be? A democracy that answers 00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:45.900 to all its citizens? Or an ethno -religious project 00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:49.819 that answers to a narrower group? The split between 00:33:49.819 --> 00:33:52.950 secular and religious? between those who want 00:33:52.950 --> 00:33:55.829 a normal country and those who want permanent 00:33:55.829 --> 00:33:59.089 expansion and control is back at the center. 00:34:00.750 --> 00:34:04.829 And this is where that idea of imperial boomerang 00:34:04.829 --> 00:34:08.829 hits home. When you use occupation, emergency 00:34:08.829 --> 00:34:12.690 laws, surveillance, and force for decades against 00:34:12.690 --> 00:34:15.849 another people, it doesn't just stay over there. 00:34:16.309 --> 00:34:20.449 It comes back to you. The same logic that treats 00:34:20.449 --> 00:34:23.869 Palestinians as a problem to be managed starts 00:34:23.869 --> 00:34:27.050 to shape how you treat your own dissenters, your 00:34:27.050 --> 00:34:32.150 own minorities, your own protesters. The same 00:34:32.150 --> 00:34:35.730 state that learns to rule one group with checkpoints 00:34:35.730 --> 00:34:38.989 and soldiers will be tempted to use some versions 00:34:38.989 --> 00:34:42.929 of that against its own citizens. That's where 00:34:42.929 --> 00:34:46.130 we're seeing in Israel, a system built to control 00:34:46.130 --> 00:34:50.150 Palestinians slowly turning inward, eating away 00:34:50.150 --> 00:34:55.929 at its own democracy and legitimacy. So is Israel 00:34:55.929 --> 00:34:59.449 stronger after all of this? On the surface, they 00:34:59.449 --> 00:35:02.550 can point to targets hit, tunnels destroyed, 00:35:03.170 --> 00:35:06.829 commanders killed. But when you zoom out, Israel 00:35:06.829 --> 00:35:10.969 is in a much weaker position. Its image as a 00:35:10.969 --> 00:35:15.210 stable, high -tech, startup nation has been replaced 00:35:15.210 --> 00:35:19.809 by footage of war, rubble and international protests. 00:35:20.769 --> 00:35:24.050 Economically, constant mobilization and instability 00:35:24.050 --> 00:35:29.190 will have a cost. Diplomatically, Israel is more 00:35:29.190 --> 00:35:32.670 isolated, especially among young people worldwide, 00:35:33.409 --> 00:35:37.170 and faces more talk of sanctions, arms conditions 00:35:37.170 --> 00:35:40.929 and legal action. Even where governments still 00:35:40.929 --> 00:35:44.269 support it, their own populations are increasingly 00:35:44.269 --> 00:35:49.039 skeptical. Meanwhile, the Palestinian issue, 00:35:49.619 --> 00:35:52.619 which the Abraham Mccord's model tried to just 00:35:52.619 --> 00:35:57.460 route around, is now unavoidable. You cannot 00:35:57.460 --> 00:36:00.199 seriously talk about regional peace or a new 00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:03.440 Middle East without talking about Gaza, the West 00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:06.780 Bank, and Palestinian rights. The Palestinian 00:36:06.780 --> 00:36:09.780 cause is no longer a silent annex to regional 00:36:09.780 --> 00:36:15.900 diplomacy. It is back at the center. If there 00:36:15.900 --> 00:36:20.639 is any lesson here, it is not that violence is 00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:23.940 justified. It's that trying to erase a people's 00:36:23.940 --> 00:36:27.360 political existence and then calling it peace 00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:31.219 is a fantasy. The world tried to work around 00:36:31.219 --> 00:36:35.159 Palestine. October 7th forced everyone to see 00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:38.659 that you can't. The only real way forward, for 00:36:38.659 --> 00:36:42.280 Palestinians, for Israelis, for the region, is 00:36:42.280 --> 00:36:45.519 to finally deal with the core issues. a people 00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:48.519 who have been denied their rights for generations, 00:36:49.139 --> 00:36:52.940 and a global system that told them to wait quietly 00:36:52.940 --> 00:36:58.300 while everyone else moved on. As we conclude 00:36:58.300 --> 00:37:01.039 this episode of the Diplomacy in Discourse podcast, 00:37:01.380 --> 00:37:04.360 we reaffirm our unwavering commitment to peace 00:37:04.360 --> 00:37:06.920 and our condemnation of all forms of violence 00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:09.699 and oppression. The goal must be a future where 00:37:09.699 --> 00:37:13.059 Israelis and Palestinians can coexist with dignity 00:37:13.059 --> 00:37:16.579 and equality. free from the cycles of retaliation, 00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:20.059 radicalism and despair that have defined too 00:37:20.059 --> 00:37:23.960 much of the past century. We deeply appreciate 00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:26.340 your time, attention and thoughtful engagement. 00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:29.019 If you found this discussion informative and 00:37:29.019 --> 00:37:31.460 illuminating, please consider supporting our 00:37:31.460 --> 00:37:33.900 work by liking this video, subscribing to our 00:37:33.900 --> 00:37:36.440 channel, and leaving a review on your favorite 00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:40.420 podcast platform. Your feedback and participation 00:37:40.420 --> 00:37:43.119 are the foundation of our growth. helping us 00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:45.659 reach a wider audience of curious and engaged 00:37:45.659 --> 00:37:49.099 listeners around the world. For questions, reflections, 00:37:49.420 --> 00:37:53.780 or suggestions, you can reach us anytime at diplomacyanddiscourse 00:37:53.780 --> 00:37:58.559 .gmail .com. Thank you, as always, for being 00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:01.199 part of this community. Your support is invaluable 00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:03.840 and we look forward to many more conversations 00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:07.320 that challenge, inspire, and expand our collective 00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:11.039 understanding. Until next time, take care, stay 00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:14.079 curious, and continue exploring the ever evolving 00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:16.820 landscape of diplomacy and discourse.