WEBVTT

00:00:03.020 --> 00:00:05.599
See, I believe that all the mysteries of the

00:00:05.599 --> 00:00:07.099
universe, all the answers to life's questions

00:00:07.099 --> 00:00:07.719
can be found in a Spielberg film. I've been afraid

00:00:07.719 --> 00:00:09.460
for all of my life. Why doesn't somebody just

00:00:09.460 --> 00:00:11.240
shoot me in the head? Right up until the day

00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:13.720
I knew my life was ending. You look bad. No,

00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:17.140
man. You smell bad. I'm pretty fucking far from Ok.

00:00:17.219 --> 00:00:18.879
Really, I feel like I'm sharing a very- Look at my shit. I had an affair- precious

00:00:18.879 --> 00:00:22.579
moment with you. There are no nations. There are

00:00:22.579 --> 00:00:24.920
no peoples. Are you threatening me, dick? You

00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:27.420
don't approve. Fake. Well, too bad. Totally fake.

00:00:27.640 --> 00:00:29.620
Did it seem fake? You look like a damn crackhead.

00:00:29.690 --> 00:00:31.550
When my best friend was bitten in half in front if me, I found

00:00:31.550 --> 00:00:33.310
this cover story personally embarrassing myself. Plenty of sausage and pepperonis

00:00:34.429 --> 00:00:37.729
Everything but the little fishies. Alrighty,

00:00:38.229 --> 00:00:41.990
welcome to Everything but the Little Fishies.

00:00:42.070 --> 00:00:47.070
Welcome, welcome. I'm Evan. I'm Mike. And today,

00:00:47.210 --> 00:00:51.509
we're going to be talking about a couple contemporary

00:00:51.509 --> 00:00:56.729
movies for once. I mean, we've done it before,

00:00:56.829 --> 00:00:59.270
but... First episode was a contemporary episode,

00:00:59.509 --> 00:01:02.229
though. That was by Barbenheimer. At least it

00:01:02.229 --> 00:01:04.150
was contemporary at the time. Yeah, and it kind

00:01:04.150 --> 00:01:07.010
of established the format of continuing to pair

00:01:07.010 --> 00:01:10.069
movies together. You know, it was a very ideal

00:01:10.069 --> 00:01:13.049
starting point. I think sometimes, you know,

00:01:13.090 --> 00:01:15.510
when movies come out at the same time and whatnot,

00:01:15.810 --> 00:01:19.670
they're zeitgeist movies. They just, by default,

00:01:19.790 --> 00:01:21.769
do interact with each other and talk about the

00:01:21.769 --> 00:01:23.150
types of things that are in the zeitgeist and

00:01:23.150 --> 00:01:30.579
whatnot. Absolutely, yeah. I agree. Yeah. So

00:01:30.579 --> 00:01:33.400
with that being said, we're talking about Eddington

00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:36.700
and One Battle After Another, both released in

00:01:36.700 --> 00:01:42.280
2025. I saw One Battle After Another before Eddington.

00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:48.319
And after watching it, a lot of people were talking

00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:50.000
about Eddington and were saying like, have you

00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:52.219
seen Eddington? And it was often in the context

00:01:52.219 --> 00:01:55.099
of like. I didn't really like one battle after

00:01:55.099 --> 00:01:57.620
another. I thought Eddington was better as if

00:01:57.620 --> 00:02:01.760
these are like movies that are, you know, basically

00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:04.659
the same, but you're just like aesthetically

00:02:04.659 --> 00:02:06.739
inclined to like one or the other. Yeah. Yeah.

00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:11.979
It's a no country for old men. Yeah. They're

00:02:11.979 --> 00:02:15.560
both very much about this moment. You could say

00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:19.000
the past five to 10 years. I think Eddington

00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:22.460
is very, very explicitly, specifically about

00:02:22.460 --> 00:02:27.319
the past five years. Yeah, obviously. And that's

00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:29.460
not going over anyone's head, and that's part

00:02:29.460 --> 00:02:31.539
of the reason why it's a divisive movie. People

00:02:31.539 --> 00:02:33.060
just kind of feel like they're being pandered

00:02:33.060 --> 00:02:36.560
to or something. But yeah, I don't know. We can

00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:40.099
get into more of the similarities as we go. We'll

00:02:40.099 --> 00:02:43.479
start with Eddington. I guess I will just say

00:02:43.479 --> 00:02:48.930
up front that... I enjoyed the hell out of it.

00:02:49.030 --> 00:02:52.750
I really just thought it was a very fun movie

00:02:52.750 --> 00:02:57.550
to watch. It keeps moving. It never really gets

00:02:57.550 --> 00:03:03.189
boring. And I really, really appreciate all the

00:03:03.189 --> 00:03:08.849
kind of topics it's discussing. It feels like

00:03:08.849 --> 00:03:11.650
it's a movie that's made for me in a lot of ways

00:03:11.650 --> 00:03:16.259
or people like me. Sure. In a way, it almost

00:03:16.259 --> 00:03:19.280
feels too much like me that it almost does feel

00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:24.219
like pandering. I really feel like Ari Aster

00:03:24.219 --> 00:03:26.419
would be a bit of a kindred spirit. I feel like

00:03:26.419 --> 00:03:29.780
I would very much enjoy him as a person, hanging

00:03:29.780 --> 00:03:33.879
out with him, talking to him. I think I could

00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:36.479
be friends with Ari Aster. I think we have very

00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:39.599
similar interests and stuff like that. Totally.

00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:42.280
I'm not saying this as a way to be like, you

00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:44.680
know. having a parasocial relationship or being

00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:47.539
like, you know. I think Ari Aster and you have

00:03:47.539 --> 00:03:49.580
a really special connection that he doesn't know

00:03:49.580 --> 00:03:53.360
about yet. Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing

00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:58.080
that like, yeah, I'm not weird fangirling over

00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:00.419
him or whatever. It's just like, I don't really

00:04:00.419 --> 00:04:03.699
know him. I just get the impression. that he

00:04:03.699 --> 00:04:06.419
is the type of person I would enjoy talking to.

00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:10.879
He's a dirtbag left guy. I think Dasha gave him

00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:15.159
notes on Eddington and stuff. Really? Yeah, they're

00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:19.800
in that scene. That's the thing. I don't really

00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:21.759
think his movies are super didactic. I think

00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:24.300
they leave a lot of room for interpretation,

00:04:24.379 --> 00:04:27.579
and I don't think any of them make a very outright

00:04:27.579 --> 00:04:31.480
explicit statement. There's a little bit of messiness.

00:04:32.089 --> 00:04:36.990
To all of them, you know? I think I agree to

00:04:36.990 --> 00:04:39.949
a certain extent, though I do think that he is

00:04:39.949 --> 00:04:42.850
trying to make more of a statement than I think

00:04:42.850 --> 00:04:46.990
somebody like Paul Thomas Anderson or I don't

00:04:46.990 --> 00:04:49.850
know. Oh, I would agree. I feel like he's less

00:04:49.850 --> 00:04:54.990
searching than he is creating. I don't know.

00:04:55.490 --> 00:04:57.829
He's less searching than Paul Thomas Anderson.

00:04:57.889 --> 00:05:00.779
Paul Thomas Anderson is way more searching. And

00:05:00.779 --> 00:05:03.439
Ari Aster is a guy who has something he wants

00:05:03.439 --> 00:05:05.220
to say and something he wants to talk about.

00:05:05.339 --> 00:05:08.279
But I also think Ari Aster is intelligent enough

00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:13.420
to look at what he's trying to say. He's intelligent

00:05:13.420 --> 00:05:14.959
enough to have something to say, but he also

00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:17.339
doesn't want to make his movie didactic. I think

00:05:17.339 --> 00:05:22.480
he ends up being his own worst enemy and prankster

00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:25.160
throughout the whole thing. He undermines his

00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:30.529
own side. Yes, he undermines his own... his own

00:05:30.529 --> 00:05:33.910
inclinations to be clean and tidy. There's something,

00:05:33.970 --> 00:05:36.689
like, very clean and tidy about everything in

00:05:36.689 --> 00:05:38.829
his movie, but then he fucks it all up somehow

00:05:38.829 --> 00:05:42.089
with something. Or, like, just some weird surreal

00:05:42.089 --> 00:05:45.750
stuff or whatever. Because, like, honestly, I

00:05:45.750 --> 00:05:47.329
felt like Eddington was an insanely predictable

00:05:47.329 --> 00:05:50.329
movie. I think you basically know exactly where

00:05:50.329 --> 00:05:52.889
the movie is going to go after the first scene.

00:05:53.089 --> 00:05:54.230
After we've all lived through it, yes. Like,

00:05:54.290 --> 00:05:57.899
seeing it on screen, it's predictable. Yes and

00:05:57.899 --> 00:06:00.699
no. I mean, there's a lot of different COVID

00:06:00.699 --> 00:06:04.339
stories and whatever. They don't all end with,

00:06:04.379 --> 00:06:06.899
you know, neighbors killing each other. And that's

00:06:06.899 --> 00:06:09.860
probably actually not realistic or the case,

00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:14.899
honestly, in most situations. So it's like, I

00:06:14.899 --> 00:06:17.480
think there's a surreal heightened aspect to

00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:20.060
Eddington and like the powder keg blowing up

00:06:20.060 --> 00:06:24.579
thing that is like really fun. but gets less

00:06:24.579 --> 00:06:28.579
and less reflective of reality as it goes in

00:06:28.579 --> 00:06:32.379
a specific way. In a meta grand sense, I think

00:06:32.379 --> 00:06:34.819
the movie is talking about something real, something

00:06:34.819 --> 00:06:39.180
very interesting, but I think what it's talking

00:06:39.180 --> 00:06:44.980
about is a broad, meta, big, cohesive point about

00:06:44.980 --> 00:06:48.339
everything. It's not like a movie about COVID.

00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:52.100
It's not a movie about... Black Lives Matter

00:06:52.100 --> 00:06:56.019
and George Floyd. It's not a movie about capitalism

00:06:56.019 --> 00:07:01.300
and colonialism. It's not a movie about cults

00:07:01.300 --> 00:07:04.579
and pedophilia rings. It's not really a movie

00:07:04.579 --> 00:07:07.139
that sinks its teeth into any one of these subjects

00:07:07.139 --> 00:07:10.100
deeply, but all of these things are touched on

00:07:10.100 --> 00:07:13.500
as a way of creating this macro picture. Just

00:07:13.500 --> 00:07:16.399
like our culture isn't about any of those things,

00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:18.480
right? Those things are part of the culture.

00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:22.220
The movie, I would argue the movie is about,

00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:25.540
there is still like a big bad thing that it's

00:07:25.540 --> 00:07:28.079
all about in Eddington. Well, I do want to hear

00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:30.500
my theory before you go into it, just as the

00:07:30.500 --> 00:07:34.519
first viewer. What I was going to say is that

00:07:34.519 --> 00:07:37.379
most of this movie was very predictable. I think

00:07:37.379 --> 00:07:41.420
by the end of the first scene. I was kind of

00:07:41.420 --> 00:07:43.620
like, I highly doubt this movie is going to subvert

00:07:43.620 --> 00:07:46.240
the ending in which this all just gets worse

00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:48.300
and worse and crazier and crazier and people

00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:52.699
start dying and killing each other. Who dies

00:07:52.699 --> 00:07:55.079
and specifically how the cards fall at the end,

00:07:55.139 --> 00:07:58.860
I don't know. But the things that surprised me

00:07:58.860 --> 00:08:03.199
about the movie are more like what topics are

00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:05.519
going to be broached. Like what things is he

00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:10.149
going to cover? And, like, you know, when Austin

00:08:10.149 --> 00:08:11.930
Butler's character shows up and starts talking

00:08:11.930 --> 00:08:13.709
about the pedophilia stuff and whatever, I was

00:08:13.709 --> 00:08:15.689
like, oh, so this is in the movie, too. Yeah.

00:08:15.810 --> 00:08:19.009
Okay. I didn't realize this was going to be touched

00:08:19.009 --> 00:08:22.129
on. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of things it ends

00:08:22.129 --> 00:08:23.689
up bringing up that I didn't think would be touched

00:08:23.689 --> 00:08:27.290
on. And I feel, like, slightly disappointed in

00:08:27.290 --> 00:08:30.490
some of those things and, like, how much time

00:08:30.490 --> 00:08:31.990
was spent with those things or how much those

00:08:31.990 --> 00:08:35.090
things connect to anything. But maybe it doesn't

00:08:35.090 --> 00:08:37.799
matter that they don't. But what I realized,

00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:41.080
the thing that surprised me the most is just

00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:43.659
the movie being bookended by this thing about

00:08:43.659 --> 00:08:46.879
the AI data center. Yes, exactly. It's solid

00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:49.659
gold Magikarp. Solid gold Magikarp. Yeah, exactly.

00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:54.820
So I think like, you know, there's a lot of details

00:08:54.820 --> 00:08:56.659
in this movie. There's a lot of little things

00:08:56.659 --> 00:08:58.779
that you could look at just like in Bo's Afraid.

00:08:59.419 --> 00:09:02.159
The way that the technology is interacting with

00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:06.019
everybody as well. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure you

00:09:06.019 --> 00:09:08.000
and I probably saw the same thing and maybe it's

00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:10.220
kind of simple and obvious and many people saw

00:09:10.220 --> 00:09:12.779
it, but like what this movie is about is actually

00:09:12.779 --> 00:09:15.700
technology. It's just like, uh, everything else

00:09:15.700 --> 00:09:18.340
is like, um, the fly and like everything else

00:09:18.340 --> 00:09:20.539
we've been talking about. Yeah. It's like really

00:09:20.539 --> 00:09:25.559
like, I think in my most galaxy brained take

00:09:25.559 --> 00:09:28.960
of the movie, I think what's kind of being shown

00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:36.370
here is, um, Well, first of all, solid gold Magikarp,

00:09:36.490 --> 00:09:40.570
right? This is... Everyone knows that. Most people

00:09:40.570 --> 00:09:45.049
know that Magikarp is a Pokemon or whatever,

00:09:45.190 --> 00:09:47.690
but that's kind of irrelevant. The point is that,

00:09:47.830 --> 00:09:50.710
like... Magikarp... Wait, so Magikarp's the one

00:09:50.710 --> 00:09:54.279
that only can do Splash, right? Magikarp's not

00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:58.299
as weak as Goldeen, but he's a pretty shitty

00:09:58.299 --> 00:10:01.720
Pokemon. Sorry, never mind. I don't know. Solid

00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:04.279
Gold Magikarp's a great name. Well, Ari Aster

00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:06.240
didn't choose the Pokemon, and even though there

00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:09.320
could be some intrigue to the specific use of

00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:12.240
Magikarp in the evolution of Gyarados as some

00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:15.000
kind of metaphor for the rise of AI or something,

00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:18.919
really Solid Gold Magikarp is the name of something

00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:22.960
in the AI community. It's the phenomenon of glitch

00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:27.259
tokens. So, you know, essentially the way a large

00:10:27.259 --> 00:10:30.220
language model learns is that, like, it gets

00:10:30.220 --> 00:10:33.399
fed data and information, but it doesn't get

00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:36.779
fed direct human language. The human language

00:10:36.779 --> 00:10:39.940
needs to first be translated into a binary code

00:10:39.940 --> 00:10:42.299
that the computer can understand. And what they

00:10:42.299 --> 00:10:46.200
call this is tokenization. And so, like, you

00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:49.860
know, you tell ChatGPT, say all these words back

00:10:49.860 --> 00:10:53.399
to me. apple and then it'll say apple and so

00:10:53.399 --> 00:10:55.840
what's happening is like you know you say apple

00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:59.019
the word a tokenizer transmits that word into

00:10:59.019 --> 00:11:02.419
binary code the ai reads the binary code and

00:11:02.419 --> 00:11:05.320
then it looks into its data set to see if it

00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:08.159
can find a matching code set which would be apple

00:11:08.159 --> 00:11:09.759
it's been trained on the word and knows what

00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:12.659
it is and then it can repeat it back to you but

00:11:12.659 --> 00:11:18.639
somebody typed solid gold magic harp in all is

00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:24.450
one word And essentially when this phrase gets

00:11:24.450 --> 00:11:27.649
turned into a token, it becomes a data set that

00:11:27.649 --> 00:11:31.110
like the large language model just doesn't understand.

00:11:31.450 --> 00:11:34.809
It essentially, it's something that has never

00:11:34.809 --> 00:11:37.190
been trained on before. Like this concept of

00:11:37.190 --> 00:11:39.870
like a solid gold Magikarp and all is one word

00:11:39.870 --> 00:11:42.970
too with like, you know, each. First word is

00:11:42.970 --> 00:11:46.549
capitalized. And, you know, essentially this

00:11:46.549 --> 00:11:48.409
is just the name of the phenomenon when you type

00:11:48.409 --> 00:11:50.149
something into an AI model that it hasn't been

00:11:50.149 --> 00:11:53.370
trained on and doesn't know what to do with the

00:11:53.370 --> 00:11:55.230
information. And so what it does do with the

00:11:55.230 --> 00:11:58.710
information is it'll either hallucinate. We've

00:11:58.710 --> 00:12:01.090
seen that before. We've talked about that before.

00:12:01.309 --> 00:12:03.169
Almost anyone who uses something out of whole

00:12:03.169 --> 00:12:07.129
cloth. Yeah. Anyone who uses AI has experienced

00:12:07.129 --> 00:12:10.529
this by now. The other thing it does is it just

00:12:10.529 --> 00:12:15.940
starts. rambling, saying gibberish, absurdities.

00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:18.820
And the other thing it can do is actually start

00:12:18.820 --> 00:12:23.440
talking aggressively. It can use harsh language

00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:26.460
towards the user. So it's basically representative

00:12:26.460 --> 00:12:28.980
of when an AI model is presented with something

00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:33.539
that it has no way of interacting with, no preceding

00:12:33.539 --> 00:12:36.779
programming for, like new inputs, basically.

00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:39.580
Yeah, yeah, something it hasn't been trained

00:12:39.580 --> 00:12:44.500
on. Right. It doesn't have common sense. It can't

00:12:44.500 --> 00:12:48.940
think of the most human response to that. It's

00:12:48.940 --> 00:12:51.179
essentially just glitching. It's essentially

00:12:51.179 --> 00:12:52.679
just glitching out, yeah, because it doesn't

00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:55.419
know what to do with the information, but it

00:12:55.419 --> 00:12:58.519
needs to do something. It needs to respond in

00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:03.860
some way. So this started to make me think about

00:13:03.860 --> 00:13:06.559
a lot of things that seem to connect and align

00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:10.039
and that mirror one another when it comes to

00:13:10.809 --> 00:13:13.289
this data center and the town that's right next

00:13:13.289 --> 00:13:15.529
to it i mean it's even shown visually like the

00:13:15.529 --> 00:13:20.169
town that first shot of the town when the when

00:13:20.169 --> 00:13:23.730
the vagrant like walks upon the town it's such

00:13:23.730 --> 00:13:25.970
an amazing shot like i love it so much the fact

00:13:25.970 --> 00:13:29.450
that the entire town just fits in this one frame

00:13:29.450 --> 00:13:32.490
you know yeah it's incredible and then at the

00:13:32.490 --> 00:13:35.629
end of the movie It's solid gold Magikarp, the

00:13:35.629 --> 00:13:37.970
data center, at the center of frame. And then

00:13:37.970 --> 00:13:40.669
you can see Eddington off in the distance. And

00:13:40.669 --> 00:13:43.190
the data center is actually the size of this

00:13:43.190 --> 00:13:47.970
town. It might even be bigger. And it got me

00:13:47.970 --> 00:13:51.830
thinking about technology and the way that has

00:13:51.830 --> 00:13:55.710
always kind of dictated the structures of our

00:13:55.710 --> 00:13:58.929
societies. That it was technology that first

00:13:58.929 --> 00:14:02.509
led to the advent of farming. And that it was

00:14:02.509 --> 00:14:05.789
technology and farming and all of these convenient

00:14:05.789 --> 00:14:09.509
tools that allowed us to sustain larger populations

00:14:09.509 --> 00:14:13.149
and create town centers. And once you have these

00:14:13.149 --> 00:14:15.970
town centers, you're kind of dealing with an

00:14:15.970 --> 00:14:17.789
environment where the individual gets a little

00:14:17.789 --> 00:14:22.029
bit lessened in order to work towards the common

00:14:22.029 --> 00:14:26.409
good of the town or whatever. You start to enter

00:14:26.409 --> 00:14:30.899
a world where people... have roles and there's

00:14:30.899 --> 00:14:35.179
hierarchies and they exist in a kind of like

00:14:35.179 --> 00:14:39.240
structured, logical system. The way they even

00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:41.620
build their roads and buildings is almost like

00:14:41.620 --> 00:14:45.980
a grid. Everything, I mean, even like Godfrey

00:14:45.980 --> 00:14:49.840
Reggio in Koyaanisqatsi made a very, very clear

00:14:49.840 --> 00:14:52.740
comparison between aerial shots of cities and

00:14:52.740 --> 00:14:56.019
motherboards of computers and whatever. Right,

00:14:56.019 --> 00:14:59.190
right, and factories and highways. There just

00:14:59.190 --> 00:15:02.009
seems to be – Industrial society. We seem to

00:15:02.009 --> 00:15:05.610
be structuring ourselves around the shapes of

00:15:05.610 --> 00:15:09.549
technology and the way electricity moves around

00:15:09.549 --> 00:15:13.330
systems and the way everything has roles and

00:15:13.330 --> 00:15:16.210
nodes and all these kind of things. It's about

00:15:16.210 --> 00:15:28.299
the system, not any one part of it. Right. It

00:15:28.299 --> 00:15:33.179
was founded because of mining. I think that's

00:15:33.179 --> 00:15:34.840
mentioned at some point. This used to be an old

00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:37.539
mining town. So that means it was a colonialist

00:15:37.539 --> 00:15:41.600
town. A bunch of Spaniards or white people essentially

00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:44.940
came in, stole the land, exploited it, took it

00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:46.940
for all it was worth. And then at some point

00:15:46.940 --> 00:15:50.679
that industry died and people kind of hung out

00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:53.879
and just kept this little thing going or whatever.

00:15:55.139 --> 00:15:59.190
But we are talking about... A small Western town

00:15:59.190 --> 00:16:01.649
that was isolated for most of its existence.

00:16:02.269 --> 00:16:05.250
And even in 2020, when this movie takes place,

00:16:05.450 --> 00:16:09.570
still feels quite remote and has very little

00:16:09.570 --> 00:16:11.409
to do with a lot of the world outside of it,

00:16:11.450 --> 00:16:15.929
right? And so everyone all of a sudden has access

00:16:15.929 --> 00:16:21.929
to the world outside of Eddington. Basically,

00:16:21.929 --> 00:16:27.529
like COVID and George Floyd and... like Trump

00:16:27.529 --> 00:16:31.070
and all these things, they're just like solid

00:16:31.070 --> 00:16:34.049
gold magic harps that are fucking up this system,

00:16:34.250 --> 00:16:38.450
Eddington, that has not been trained to deal

00:16:38.450 --> 00:16:41.629
with any of this fucking information. And I just

00:16:41.629 --> 00:16:44.230
think like, that's what your brain is. That's

00:16:44.230 --> 00:16:48.509
what your nervous system is. None of us are trained

00:16:48.509 --> 00:16:53.110
for what's happening right now. And so just like

00:16:53.110 --> 00:16:57.840
the way the AI model reacts, We all react with

00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:01.539
conspiracy theory, gibberish, babbling, aggression,

00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:06.400
confusion. You know, we hallucinate. Like his

00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:09.579
fucking wife and mother -in -law are just like

00:17:09.579 --> 00:17:12.380
buzzing around the house, like spouting conspiracy

00:17:12.380 --> 00:17:14.299
theory. They're trying to come up with some sort

00:17:14.299 --> 00:17:16.039
of explanation. They're trying to come up with

00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:17.819
some sort of explanation for something that doesn't

00:17:17.819 --> 00:17:20.880
make any fucking sense. And we're all now dealing

00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:24.240
with this. This insane amount of information

00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:27.059
that makes no sense to us, and we're all losing

00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:31.259
it because of it. We are not trained to deal

00:17:31.259 --> 00:17:34.099
with this. Our nervous system isn't, our brain

00:17:34.099 --> 00:17:36.900
isn't, and not even our societal structures are.

00:17:38.059 --> 00:17:42.759
And I think the tech overlords know this, and

00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:46.740
I think that's why they're building cities of

00:17:46.740 --> 00:17:51.960
robots that can... think about all that for us

00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:55.220
like well this ai brain can actually take in

00:17:55.220 --> 00:17:58.000
all that information and actually can think about

00:17:58.000 --> 00:17:59.759
all of and actually can crunch all the numbers

00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:02.259
and make sense of it and it will make sense of

00:18:02.259 --> 00:18:05.400
it for us we don't know what's going on either

00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:07.900
we're super confused we're building this thing

00:18:07.900 --> 00:18:09.599
so that there's something out there that can

00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:12.839
finally put all this together and make sense

00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:17.170
of what's going on here um I think part of what's

00:18:17.170 --> 00:18:20.789
so interesting is that the people's actions in

00:18:20.789 --> 00:18:24.930
the real world, you don't really know who these

00:18:24.930 --> 00:18:28.289
people are until you see their phone screens.

00:18:28.750 --> 00:18:30.789
When they're watching a video and you see above

00:18:30.789 --> 00:18:33.049
and below the video that they're watching, it's

00:18:33.049 --> 00:18:34.690
like, oh, okay, I know exactly who this guy is

00:18:34.690 --> 00:18:38.069
now. And like, you didn't, it's not because they

00:18:38.069 --> 00:18:40.049
expressed anything in the real world or anything.

00:18:40.170 --> 00:18:43.329
It's like, just because, oh, they chose a certain

00:18:43.329 --> 00:18:46.150
side when they were browsing alone in their room

00:18:46.150 --> 00:18:49.450
about some imaginary thing that's happening elsewhere.

00:18:50.049 --> 00:18:54.470
I mean, to me, I think the, I like a lot of what

00:18:54.470 --> 00:18:55.950
you're saying and whatnot with the solid gold

00:18:55.950 --> 00:18:58.430
magic card. For me, a lot of what it comes down

00:18:58.430 --> 00:19:04.119
to is there's this tech company that needs to

00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:06.180
come into this town, right? And, like, take over

00:19:06.180 --> 00:19:07.960
this town, essentially. And they're coming up

00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:09.920
against some sort of pushback at the beginning.

00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:14.640
So they get to fly in the hired guns. And then

00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:19.819
they create this Infowars, you know, battle happening

00:19:19.819 --> 00:19:22.339
in the sphere of human consciousness, something

00:19:22.339 --> 00:19:24.460
that's not happening on the boots on the ground

00:19:24.460 --> 00:19:27.950
in Eddington at all, but just, like... A race

00:19:27.950 --> 00:19:30.470
war is happening elsewhere that you need to get

00:19:30.470 --> 00:19:33.109
out there and fight. And there's a disease happening

00:19:33.109 --> 00:19:35.289
elsewhere that you need to be afraid of. And

00:19:35.289 --> 00:19:38.589
that creates this chaos that makes the left -wing

00:19:38.589 --> 00:19:40.990
coded and right -wing coded leaders of this town

00:19:40.990 --> 00:19:43.549
fight against each other and destroy each other.

00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:48.059
What's left in the end is neither any left or

00:19:48.059 --> 00:19:50.000
any right except for the right who's in the bed

00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.440
with the conspiracy theorists at the end and

00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:55.299
is totally neutered and destroyed. But the only

00:19:55.299 --> 00:19:57.900
people who win from this conflict is the tech

00:19:57.900 --> 00:19:59.980
company. Like that to me is the bottom line is

00:19:59.980 --> 00:20:02.460
like, oh, this conflict that was necessary for

00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:05.339
the tech people to take over and like was caused

00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:08.039
completely by the technology that people were

00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:11.619
using and like created this false war where everybody

00:20:11.619 --> 00:20:14.519
hates each other based on like what. these phones

00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:17.339
tell them and stuff. Those people also benefit

00:20:17.339 --> 00:20:19.200
off of that. And when in the end, the people

00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:21.519
who needed that and created that, and then what,

00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:25.900
like I, it's, it was actually so obvious. It

00:20:25.900 --> 00:20:28.200
was actually so obvious at the time, but you

00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:31.240
had to like question it. You couldn't entirely

00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:35.059
believe in it because of just how oppressive

00:20:35.059 --> 00:20:38.599
the, the, the message and propaganda was and

00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:40.700
the fear mongering and everything around, you

00:20:40.700 --> 00:20:44.519
know, it was very easy. To get swept up in it.

00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:48.539
It's easy to get swept up on either side, you

00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:52.319
know? I remember talking to you at the time.

00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:54.880
During COVID? Yeah, during COVID. I just remember

00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:56.980
there was a lot of skepticism. There was a lot

00:20:56.980 --> 00:20:58.900
of skepticism about lockdowns. There was a lot

00:20:58.900 --> 00:21:03.039
of skepticism about mask wearing. And I don't

00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:04.920
think we were alone and stuff. That's why there

00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:08.099
are these two sides that were represented. And

00:21:08.099 --> 00:21:11.819
the thing is... I really feel somewhat vindicated.

00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:15.799
We don't have all the evidence, but any journalist

00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:17.640
who's worth their salt right now is going to

00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:19.839
tell you that the virus most likely came from

00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:23.700
the Wuhan lab, that Fauci was absolutely corrupt,

00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:26.299
there was a lot of shady shit going on behind

00:21:26.299 --> 00:21:30.140
the scenes, that the Operation Warp Speed was

00:21:30.140 --> 00:21:34.700
riddled with problems, and we were lied to over

00:21:34.700 --> 00:21:37.660
and over again. We were lied to about lockdown

00:21:37.660 --> 00:21:41.460
effectiveness. and mask effectiveness i also

00:21:41.460 --> 00:21:43.460
think the fact that it changed the world forever

00:21:43.460 --> 00:21:46.099
yeah it changed the world never returned to normal

00:21:46.099 --> 00:21:48.680
um is a big part but the thing the thing like

00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:51.000
the final point of that too is that there was

00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:53.599
just like an overall consolidation of power that

00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:56.549
happened in that moment exactly that moment Killed

00:21:56.549 --> 00:21:58.569
off a lot of the little businesses. That moment

00:21:58.569 --> 00:22:01.309
stacked the cards against the little guy even

00:22:01.309 --> 00:22:04.029
more than ever before. And who won out? The big

00:22:04.029 --> 00:22:05.789
tech companies. The tech companies. Yeah, the

00:22:05.789 --> 00:22:08.809
tech companies won. The people who needed this

00:22:08.809 --> 00:22:11.549
thing in order to, you know, win their political

00:22:11.549 --> 00:22:15.630
opponents a seat. Who also affected us through

00:22:15.630 --> 00:22:18.990
our phones. They also were the people who won

00:22:18.990 --> 00:22:21.890
out in the end. I'm surprised. It's almost as

00:22:21.890 --> 00:22:24.849
if they came up with and caused this thing. It's

00:22:24.849 --> 00:22:27.660
crazy. And what do you think all of them were

00:22:27.660 --> 00:22:29.519
thinking about at that time that they weren't

00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:31.400
really pushing out onto people until like three

00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:35.059
years later? AI, right? Building data centers.

00:22:35.299 --> 00:22:37.279
Of course. All this stuff was happening at that

00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:39.779
time, but they weren't really talking about it.

00:22:39.880 --> 00:22:41.359
Right, right. It wasn't really at the forefront.

00:22:41.980 --> 00:22:44.539
They were just creating a world in which everybody

00:22:44.539 --> 00:22:47.720
was living inside as a beta test. That's why

00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:49.740
it was shocking to see that the very first shot

00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:52.849
of Eddington. has this vagrant walk past this

00:22:52.849 --> 00:22:55.069
sign that says like AI data center being built

00:22:55.069 --> 00:22:57.730
or whatever. And I was immediately just like

00:22:57.730 --> 00:23:00.309
taken aback by that. I was like, Oh, this is

00:23:00.309 --> 00:23:03.309
a, it's like, this is a movie about 2020. Like

00:23:03.309 --> 00:23:05.730
nobody was talking about AI data centers back

00:23:05.730 --> 00:23:08.490
then, but that's actually what was happening.

00:23:09.509 --> 00:23:11.690
No, no, they were, I'm sure they were, they were

00:23:11.690 --> 00:23:14.089
being, what was happening. I'm sure they were

00:23:14.089 --> 00:23:17.250
already like destroying. They weren't letting

00:23:17.250 --> 00:23:20.700
that into our algorithm. No, they weren't letting

00:23:20.700 --> 00:23:24.500
it into our algorithm yet, exactly. But in retrospect,

00:23:24.619 --> 00:23:26.640
knowing that that was always there behind the

00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:30.660
scenes makes COVID even shadier. Of course. The

00:23:30.660 --> 00:23:34.400
idea that those tech companies actually required

00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:37.180
that consolidation of power to build all those

00:23:37.180 --> 00:23:40.519
data centers. Right. And to really push this

00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:42.700
thing. And to kill off both sides of this thing.

00:23:42.819 --> 00:23:47.339
And then, yeah. That's how you create oligarchs.

00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:54.960
Perfect storm. And so, yeah, we were fucked with,

00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:57.799
man. We were fucked with real hard. And most

00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:00.259
people bought it hook, line, sinker. They fought

00:24:00.259 --> 00:24:01.720
with their neighbors. They yelled at people who

00:24:01.720 --> 00:24:03.099
didn't wear masks. Yeah, but I mean, the people

00:24:03.099 --> 00:24:06.279
who were reasonable, a lot of people were killed

00:24:06.279 --> 00:24:08.599
off through Eddington. You know what I mean?

00:24:08.619 --> 00:24:11.299
During the movie Eddington, a lot of these archetypes

00:24:11.299 --> 00:24:14.380
were killed off. And what's left in the end...

00:24:14.990 --> 00:24:17.809
uh, is what, like the conspiracy theorist archetype.

00:24:17.809 --> 00:24:20.789
And then the, the battered woman is off with

00:24:20.789 --> 00:24:25.009
her new, like, I guess the abused woman is off

00:24:25.009 --> 00:24:29.130
with her cult. Um, she's, she's like, uh, she's

00:24:29.130 --> 00:24:30.990
like, she's doing the thing that Julianne Moore

00:24:30.990 --> 00:24:33.710
did in safe or whatever. Exactly. Yeah. She's,

00:24:33.710 --> 00:24:39.190
she's, she is, uh, Carol in safe. Um, And the

00:24:39.190 --> 00:24:41.789
black guy's out there arming himself and shooting

00:24:41.789 --> 00:24:45.049
targets and looking at the... But I don't even

00:24:45.049 --> 00:24:47.430
know what that means either. Like, who is that?

00:24:47.769 --> 00:24:51.029
What is his archetype? Yeah, I mean, I think

00:24:51.029 --> 00:24:53.829
he's indicative of a lot of details in Eddington

00:24:53.829 --> 00:24:57.509
that don't really add up. Or if they do, I don't

00:24:57.509 --> 00:25:00.109
know how they do specifically yet. That's the

00:25:00.109 --> 00:25:02.069
thing. There's so much I really like about this

00:25:02.069 --> 00:25:05.849
movie. But I think some of the things he shoehorns

00:25:05.849 --> 00:25:08.819
in it I don't think are given enough. time to

00:25:08.819 --> 00:25:13.099
really matter um except in a general like this

00:25:13.099 --> 00:25:15.319
is 2020 the movie and we're gonna touch on all

00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:19.920
the things um like i really don't like the austin

00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:24.319
butler thing i think like that was kind of like

00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:28.559
pretty throwaway and and like just to bring up

00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:33.430
the pedophile thing that's like But there is

00:25:33.430 --> 00:25:34.930
a part of me that still thinks it's sort of important

00:25:34.930 --> 00:25:38.230
because it's the only thing that doesn't signal

00:25:38.230 --> 00:25:40.470
to the AI thing. It's the only thing that doesn't

00:25:40.470 --> 00:25:44.349
signal to, well, the only problem is technology.

00:25:45.309 --> 00:25:47.470
Actually, there was a problem with the old world

00:25:47.470 --> 00:25:50.329
in small communities, which is dads be raping

00:25:50.329 --> 00:25:53.950
their daughters. I mean, this is something that

00:25:53.950 --> 00:25:59.519
Yuval Noah Harari in his book Sapiens. documents.

00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:01.640
There's a lot of criticism about that book. Another

00:26:01.640 --> 00:26:03.039
thing you have to take with a grain of salt.

00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:06.200
But, you know, just talking about how back when

00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:09.519
people lived in family units on farms and homesteads,

00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:13.519
yeah, you had closer family units. There's less

00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:15.420
reliance on the state and all that kind of stuff.

00:26:15.819 --> 00:26:18.900
But it's not like there wasn't a significant

00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:22.119
amount of abuse going on. Like, there's no accountability

00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:25.140
in those families. There's nothing like, you

00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:28.009
know what I mean? Until the system really gets

00:26:28.009 --> 00:26:30.730
big enough where the law is in everyone's backyard.

00:26:31.289 --> 00:26:34.049
And that is an interesting part of the movie

00:26:34.049 --> 00:26:38.190
because obviously the mother is in denial about

00:26:38.190 --> 00:26:41.630
her husband raping their daughter and blames

00:26:41.630 --> 00:26:47.569
Ted Garcia. I mean, she got pregnant at 16. Her

00:26:47.569 --> 00:26:50.170
dad raped her and impregnated her at 16 or something.

00:26:50.569 --> 00:26:55.250
And mom just can't deal with that. She cannot.

00:26:55.880 --> 00:26:58.859
Except the reality, it's a solid gold Magikarp.

00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:04.220
This does not compute. So she creates this whole

00:27:04.220 --> 00:27:07.940
narrative that Ted Garcia did it. Which is what

00:27:07.940 --> 00:27:11.200
Joaquin's dealing with. That's the thing. He's

00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:14.660
defending... he's trying to defend her against

00:27:14.660 --> 00:27:17.240
her rapist. Like, you know what I mean? Like

00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:20.200
he, he is like kind of like, no, this guy's fucking

00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:22.099
bad. And I like need to fight this guy and do

00:27:22.099 --> 00:27:24.039
this with me. Like he's protecting the honor

00:27:24.039 --> 00:27:27.200
of his wife who was like, you know, there is

00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:29.339
something there. Well, that's because he does,

00:27:29.380 --> 00:27:31.700
he does think Ted did it because that was the

00:27:31.700 --> 00:27:34.019
narrative. But it's like, she's not willing to

00:27:34.019 --> 00:27:36.819
let him in. Like there's a lot of this stems

00:27:36.819 --> 00:27:39.640
from their male, female dynamic in the first

00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:42.240
place. Like, I mean, a lot of this starts with,

00:27:42.779 --> 00:27:49.640
The opening voiceover is about how men who want

00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:51.400
to have children and their partners don't want

00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:54.680
to have children and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:58.460
And that being a rising trend, or at least that

00:27:58.460 --> 00:28:01.039
is a rising trend that is a modern zeitgeisty

00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:06.059
thing where men generally want to have children

00:28:06.059 --> 00:28:10.180
and women generally do not. Sure, there's a lot

00:28:10.180 --> 00:28:13.140
of... There's a lot of interesting details in

00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:15.380
all, like, what's going on in the phones and

00:28:15.380 --> 00:28:17.539
in the background TVs and computers and whatever.

00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:19.099
Most of the computers, actually. I don't think

00:28:19.099 --> 00:28:21.460
anyone's watching a TV in the movie, except in

00:28:21.460 --> 00:28:25.019
the police station. Maybe. I think the police

00:28:25.019 --> 00:28:26.740
station, they're watching Fox News and stuff.

00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:30.440
Like, Tucker comes on, and there's, like, you

00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:32.359
know, they're watching, like, the George Floyd

00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:35.799
stuff on the TV. Like, the cops, they have their

00:28:35.799 --> 00:28:37.700
phones, too, but most of the screens in the movies

00:28:37.700 --> 00:28:40.559
are laptops or phones. Yeah. But yeah, no, there's

00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:41.940
a lot of like little conversations happening.

00:28:42.019 --> 00:28:43.740
There's a lot of little radio broadcasts. There's

00:28:43.740 --> 00:28:46.339
a lot of little things happening in the background

00:28:46.339 --> 00:28:48.460
that are also speaking to like the media environment

00:28:48.460 --> 00:28:49.859
that everyone's swimming to. Everything seems

00:28:49.859 --> 00:28:52.319
noisy all the time. There's always some like

00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:56.359
thing on in the background, you know, for the

00:28:56.359 --> 00:29:00.240
most part. Yeah. Yeah. But I was just thinking

00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:02.559
that's, that's probably, that might be Joaquin's

00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:04.599
solid gold magic card thing. Cause he's, he's,

00:29:04.599 --> 00:29:09.200
he's just like trying to get MS, like, uh, Joe

00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:13.319
is just trying to get Louise in bed or basically

00:29:13.319 --> 00:29:17.359
whatnot. And the opening voiceover makes it seem

00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:20.920
like maybe this is like he wants family and children

00:29:20.920 --> 00:29:22.700
and whatnot. And this is something that he's

00:29:22.700 --> 00:29:26.750
trying to fix and defend. And, like, create this,

00:29:26.849 --> 00:29:28.509
like, light. Like, you know what I mean? It's

00:29:28.509 --> 00:29:30.450
like, well, his wife has this problem. It's like,

00:29:30.490 --> 00:29:31.829
well, I can fix it. I'll go out. I'll fight.

00:29:31.890 --> 00:29:33.049
I'll kill the fucking guy. I'll do whatever.

00:29:33.190 --> 00:29:35.230
Like, I'll do, like. And it's like, nah, she's

00:29:35.230 --> 00:29:37.049
not even letting you know who to fight. Like,

00:29:37.069 --> 00:29:38.750
because there's not. He has no chance to begin

00:29:38.750 --> 00:29:41.089
with. She needs to connect to the cult leader.

00:29:41.890 --> 00:29:45.539
Like. Sure, sure. Because he's also, like, a

00:29:45.539 --> 00:29:47.440
victim. And who knows if his story is even real.

00:29:47.779 --> 00:29:51.000
Right. I doubt his story is real. They keep saying

00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:52.640
over and over, like, this sounds unbelievable.

00:29:52.660 --> 00:29:55.519
But, yes, like, I don't want to deny it. I don't

00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:57.140
want to call you a liar or whatever. It just

00:29:57.140 --> 00:30:00.380
sounds unbelievable. It kind of does. It sounds

00:30:00.380 --> 00:30:04.420
like the most ridiculous, like, did Epstein even

00:30:04.420 --> 00:30:11.079
do that? It sounds so medieval. or something

00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:14.500
or just something out of the movie uh loose change

00:30:14.500 --> 00:30:18.319
9 -11 uh you know conspiracy bullshit or this

00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:21.019
is what the rich do is they capture young children

00:30:21.019 --> 00:30:22.599
and they release them in the woods and they hunt

00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:24.839
them down and then rape them in the woods and

00:30:24.839 --> 00:30:27.680
kill them and hang their bodies in satanic whatever

00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:29.819
the fox hunt with little kids yeah there was

00:30:29.819 --> 00:30:31.460
there was a i remember in film school i don't

00:30:31.460 --> 00:30:33.519
know if you watch this but at our film school

00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:36.740
there was like uh they showed us examples of

00:30:36.740 --> 00:30:39.960
like earlier film projects And one of them was

00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:43.079
a kid who shot like this whole like it was pretty

00:30:43.079 --> 00:30:46.259
big budget thing of like these basically like

00:30:46.259 --> 00:30:49.279
poor kids like running away in the woods from

00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:52.299
like these big, scary, you know, rich people

00:30:52.299 --> 00:30:55.019
and whatnot. um and it was like a really well

00:30:55.019 --> 00:30:57.519
done cool aesthetic and then it ended with like

00:30:57.519 --> 00:30:59.700
the credits being like no they actually do do

00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:02.180
this and like this is a thing about like this

00:31:02.180 --> 00:31:04.579
this thing that the rich do do at this time in

00:31:04.579 --> 00:31:07.680
this place every year and whatever and like apparently

00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:09.680
they use this as an example of like everybody

00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:11.940
told him to cut out the credits then like everybody

00:31:11.940 --> 00:31:14.160
was like dude you did a good job just like don't

00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:16.720
don't Be so off -putting. Don't say this, really.

00:31:17.259 --> 00:31:20.339
Saying this is all real and the rich do eat the

00:31:20.339 --> 00:31:23.660
virgins and whatever. It's like, no, no, that's

00:31:23.660 --> 00:31:25.799
a solid gold Magikarp. That does not compete.

00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:27.339
I don't fucking, like, what are you talking about?

00:31:27.339 --> 00:31:30.160
At least it's a solution to a solid gold Magikarp,

00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:32.779
you know? Like, it's a, yeah, yeah. It's the

00:31:32.779 --> 00:31:34.599
way of. Well, I think, no, I think even that

00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:36.559
information is. I think when the mother hears

00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:39.579
that narrative, you know, that triggers something

00:31:39.579 --> 00:31:42.240
in her of just like. That's not real. I don't

00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:43.980
believe this. Stop fucking talking about this.

00:31:44.059 --> 00:31:47.640
I don't even want to hear this. And then that

00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:51.259
gives Louise, Emma Stone's character, the sort

00:31:51.259 --> 00:31:54.160
of chance to start talking about the abuse from

00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:58.180
her father. And mom's just not having it. And

00:31:58.180 --> 00:32:01.559
Austin Butler is like, you see what that is?

00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:04.960
She's in pain too or something like that. That's

00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:07.660
her pain. But yeah, I don't know. He's doing

00:32:07.660 --> 00:32:11.140
some sort of victim thing, like the valor of

00:32:11.140 --> 00:32:14.119
victimhood. I think that is an important aspect

00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:16.500
of the movie, though, like why the technology

00:32:16.500 --> 00:32:20.240
and AI data center can take over and poison everybody

00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:23.839
is everybody is very weak at the moment. Everybody

00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:27.599
is really, really, there's a lot of pain and

00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:30.039
like generational trauma that has kind of been

00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:33.440
passed down. um and like stuff that people just

00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:35.539
haven't dealt with that is like boiling underneath

00:32:35.539 --> 00:32:39.319
and a lot of it's because of like untruths you

00:32:39.319 --> 00:32:42.619
know like the the idea that joe cross has been

00:32:42.619 --> 00:32:47.720
living with this hurt about ted raping his wife

00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:51.380
when she was 16 and it was never even true um

00:32:51.380 --> 00:32:54.039
that's fucked up that's a crazy thing to put

00:32:54.039 --> 00:32:56.640
on joe cross it's it's enough to drive him insane

00:32:56.640 --> 00:33:00.059
yeah like yeah i know and you know what joe cross

00:33:00.059 --> 00:33:03.480
was trained on Joe Cross was trained on an idea

00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:05.680
of the world where he would be a man, he'd be

00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:08.460
a police officer, he'd protect and serve, he

00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:11.940
would provide, start a family, have a little

00:33:11.940 --> 00:33:16.579
homestead. He was trained on something that he

00:33:16.579 --> 00:33:20.559
hasn't received at all in any way. Instead, his

00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:23.519
wife's like sobbing about something that like...

00:33:23.789 --> 00:33:26.130
didn't she's not even telling him because it

00:33:26.130 --> 00:33:27.990
didn't even actually happen because there's another

00:33:27.990 --> 00:33:30.390
thing that she's actually like and it's so distant

00:33:30.390 --> 00:33:33.349
the actual cornerstone of her mental illness

00:33:33.349 --> 00:33:35.470
is something he doesn't even know about right

00:33:35.940 --> 00:33:38.640
And he's trying to fix it. He's trying to solve

00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:41.460
the problem in a very masculine way where it's

00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:42.819
like, I'm going to fix it. He's trying to have

00:33:42.819 --> 00:33:44.240
sex with you, dude. We're going to make it better

00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:45.440
and then we're going to have a family and it's

00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:47.019
going to be better because that's what we both

00:33:47.019 --> 00:33:51.039
want, right? And she's just like, nah, she's

00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:58.240
just there. Well, I don't want to lessen the

00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:04.890
crime that is paternal rape. I think that would

00:34:04.890 --> 00:34:08.130
probably be a pretty hard thing to overcome.

00:34:09.730 --> 00:34:12.389
We don't really see how she's worked on it. It

00:34:12.389 --> 00:34:15.429
doesn't really seem like her dealing with it

00:34:15.429 --> 00:34:17.070
has been healthy because she's kept it a secret

00:34:17.070 --> 00:34:19.889
from her husband and all these things. It's obviously

00:34:19.889 --> 00:34:22.690
not something she's been dealing with healthily.

00:34:22.789 --> 00:34:25.170
She said that she doesn't want to slip again,

00:34:25.289 --> 00:34:29.949
so she's getting better. But did she go to rehab?

00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:32.960
is she just getting better because her mom's

00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:39.559
around now and like sort of encouraging her conspiratorial

00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:42.199
way of thinking and stuff. I mean, to me, it

00:34:42.199 --> 00:34:44.760
also just sounds like an arch version of like

00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:47.820
aggressor masquerading as victim. Like, even

00:34:47.820 --> 00:34:50.480
though I see she is a victim, like it's just

00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:52.519
like the way that she treats her poor husband,

00:34:52.579 --> 00:34:54.260
the whole movie is just kind of like, he's just,

00:34:54.260 --> 00:34:57.619
he's just trying to be nice. And like, then she

00:34:57.619 --> 00:35:00.760
like, gives him, like, two seconds of her time.

00:35:00.860 --> 00:35:03.260
Like, I don't know. He doesn't really seem like

00:35:03.260 --> 00:35:07.880
a bad person, but he also seems kind of stupid.

00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:11.960
And like incapable of actually dealing with any

00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:13.960
of the information that he's being given. But

00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:16.199
he hasn't been given the right information. That's

00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:18.079
the point. He's been given the information that

00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:20.360
he's fighting against the one big bad guy that

00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:22.460
is like in charge of this town. And he's not

00:35:22.460 --> 00:35:24.539
allowed to kill this guy because of modern society,

00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:26.840
but he is the sheriff and he can go on and he

00:35:26.840 --> 00:35:28.539
can shame him. He can take over and he can be

00:35:28.539 --> 00:35:30.239
like, we're actually taking care of it. And it's

00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:31.809
like. no, dude, you're not taking care of anything.

00:35:31.849 --> 00:35:33.230
You're just embarrassing me because this has

00:35:33.230 --> 00:35:35.489
nothing to do with anything and this isn't actually

00:35:35.489 --> 00:35:37.469
the bad guy and there isn't actually any justice

00:35:37.469 --> 00:35:40.550
down the path because I've just been like giving

00:35:40.550 --> 00:35:42.690
you some tertiary thing to get mad at so that

00:35:42.690 --> 00:35:44.190
you don't actually know what's actually going

00:35:44.190 --> 00:35:47.670
on inside of me. Like, I don't know. But I also

00:35:47.670 --> 00:35:50.989
think it gives him the ability to put blame on

00:35:50.989 --> 00:35:54.570
something else besides himself. I think Joe Cross

00:35:54.570 --> 00:35:57.769
is a heavily flawed character. I think it's pretty

00:35:57.769 --> 00:36:00.710
interesting. that he actually does seem really

00:36:00.710 --> 00:36:03.110
bad at his job, that he's been in, like, the

00:36:03.110 --> 00:36:06.389
police force his whole life. I mean, what Ted

00:36:06.389 --> 00:36:08.849
levies against him is, like, you can't even keep

00:36:08.849 --> 00:36:10.610
your own fucking department together, dude. Like,

00:36:10.610 --> 00:36:12.650
everyone's leaving. Like, what are you doing?

00:36:12.730 --> 00:36:14.429
You're not good at this job, and you want to

00:36:14.429 --> 00:36:18.210
be a mayor? I feel like Ted's right about that,

00:36:18.289 --> 00:36:20.429
you know? No, but I mean, but also, Joe Cross

00:36:20.429 --> 00:36:22.170
comes back with, like, that guy left for this

00:36:22.170 --> 00:36:25.389
reason, and that's because of your budget, and

00:36:25.389 --> 00:36:27.730
then this other thing was, like, that was an

00:36:27.730 --> 00:36:29.460
accident. Sure, we don't really know. You don't

00:36:29.460 --> 00:36:30.920
really know. You don't actually know. But I also

00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:33.900
think his deputies are stupid. I know that it's

00:36:33.900 --> 00:36:38.460
complicated because after Joe kills Ted and his

00:36:38.460 --> 00:36:41.679
son and they go to the crime scene, obviously

00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:45.460
Joe doesn't care about the crime being solved

00:36:45.460 --> 00:36:47.920
properly. Right. That's the funniest scene in

00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:50.719
the movie. I love it. But there is still a huge

00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:53.769
incompetence to just like his deputies too. and,

00:36:53.789 --> 00:36:55.349
like, touching the evidence without gloves and

00:36:55.349 --> 00:36:56.630
whatever. And it's like, these guys aren't good

00:36:56.630 --> 00:36:59.650
at their jobs. Yeah, but also, what small -town

00:36:59.650 --> 00:37:02.369
police officers who've never been on a crime

00:37:02.369 --> 00:37:05.610
scene before are good at their jobs? Like, remember

00:37:05.610 --> 00:37:07.449
the guys that arrested us when we were fucking

00:37:07.449 --> 00:37:10.110
16? The guys who, like, walked into the place

00:37:10.110 --> 00:37:12.510
and, like, kicked over things and smashed? Like,

00:37:12.510 --> 00:37:16.730
the losers whose lives are busting up 16 -year

00:37:16.730 --> 00:37:19.980
-old parties? Those guys. I think that being

00:37:19.980 --> 00:37:22.059
a sheriff of a town like that is just kind of

00:37:22.059 --> 00:37:24.199
like being in charge of the frat and just being

00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:26.739
like, all right, bros, just like, let's try not

00:37:26.739 --> 00:37:29.739
to. I don't know. Maybe that's the reality, man.

00:37:29.739 --> 00:37:31.480
You don't have the smartest guys in the world

00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:35.500
who are the low -line, on -the -beat police officers

00:37:35.500 --> 00:37:40.239
in rural towns in America. Dude, I understand

00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:42.960
that's the reality or whatever. And that's like

00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:45.199
what the movie is highlighting. That's kind of

00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:47.360
the point when he's looking at the TV with the

00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:49.179
George Floyd stuff and being like, that's not

00:37:49.179 --> 00:37:53.159
a here problem. This town only has fucking three

00:37:53.159 --> 00:37:56.280
cops and like only one of them is in riot gear

00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:58.300
and they're approaching this crowd of kids and

00:37:58.300 --> 00:38:01.639
protesters. Like it looks silly. It's like this

00:38:01.639 --> 00:38:04.619
whole thing doesn't apply to this town. Right.

00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:06.480
And that's kind of like the point is like none

00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:08.079
of this is happening here. Like none of this

00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:10.659
is about this town. But you see, the right wing

00:38:10.659 --> 00:38:13.800
guy is saying that, right? Yeah, exactly. Whereas

00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:16.340
the left wing guy is going on TV and hiring a

00:38:16.340 --> 00:38:18.119
bunch of black people to walk around with him

00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:20.000
who don't live in that town so that he can pretend

00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:22.320
the racial thing that is happening in that town.

00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:24.760
He's on the right side of and whatever. Like

00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:27.000
I do think I think a lot of the ways that like.

00:38:27.400 --> 00:38:30.420
the virus infiltrates in this movie, the mind

00:38:30.420 --> 00:38:33.500
virus, the AI mind virus that, you know, got

00:38:33.500 --> 00:38:36.079
through our phones and created this, you know,

00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:38.920
hysteria that we call COVID and George Floyd

00:38:38.920 --> 00:38:41.340
and whatever. Like, I think that the way that

00:38:41.340 --> 00:38:44.719
that gets into the water supply of Eddington

00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:47.500
is very like, I think that a lot of the details

00:38:47.500 --> 00:38:50.349
of this movie are fucking great. I think a lot

00:38:50.349 --> 00:38:52.550
of the details are fucking great. And there are

00:38:52.550 --> 00:38:54.329
so many of them that when you watch it a second

00:38:54.329 --> 00:38:55.690
time, it's kind of like, oh, yeah, this does

00:38:55.690 --> 00:38:59.949
actually have to do with pregnancy and relationships

00:38:59.949 --> 00:39:01.929
in the modern age. A lot of this does come from

00:39:01.929 --> 00:39:04.110
that. And like, oh, yeah, a lot of this is like

00:39:04.110 --> 00:39:07.050
this trauma response stuff. And so I don't know.

00:39:07.150 --> 00:39:10.530
I think there's a lot there to be mined. Well,

00:39:10.630 --> 00:39:13.429
that's the thing is I think like Ted is a far

00:39:13.429 --> 00:39:17.090
more ideological character than Joe. I think

00:39:17.090 --> 00:39:21.800
Joe. Is like... He's operating on very basic,

00:39:21.860 --> 00:39:24.900
classic sort of moral standards, like you said.

00:39:25.019 --> 00:39:27.239
He's just trying to protect his wife, protect

00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:29.760
her honor. Ted is just operating on selfish standards,

00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:31.960
too. During quarantine, he's hanging out in a

00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:33.800
group with all his people because the rules don't

00:39:33.800 --> 00:39:36.219
apply to him because he is allowed to, because

00:39:36.219 --> 00:39:39.360
everywhere is the governor's office if he's there.

00:39:39.659 --> 00:39:42.860
You know what I mean? He's just pretending, too.

00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:44.820
He's also hiring the black people to come in,

00:39:44.860 --> 00:39:46.579
even though there's no black people in town.

00:39:47.780 --> 00:39:49.940
He's pretending. I don't mean his... His ideology

00:39:49.940 --> 00:39:52.760
is woke or about COVID. I think his ideology

00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:56.659
is capitalism. I think his ideology is like,

00:39:56.679 --> 00:39:58.619
I want to bring this data center into here to

00:39:58.619 --> 00:40:01.320
boost the economy of Eddington. Exactly. And

00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:05.420
what do I need to do to do that? Yes. And what

00:40:05.420 --> 00:40:07.519
do I need to bullshit and pretend is actually

00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:11.300
happening? He doesn't care about his kid going

00:40:11.300 --> 00:40:14.239
to that party because it's going to expose his

00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:15.980
kid to COVID. He's worried about someone seeing

00:40:15.980 --> 00:40:17.719
his kid. He knows it's not real and that COVID

00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:20.139
is not at that party. He just needs to go on

00:40:20.139 --> 00:40:22.900
TV and say that only a monster would think that

00:40:22.900 --> 00:40:24.659
COVID wasn't real and it wasn't at that party.

00:40:24.940 --> 00:40:28.000
And so by doing that, he can create a world for

00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:30.260
the AI overlords. And the first thing he says

00:40:30.260 --> 00:40:32.280
to his kid is, like, you know what it would look

00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:34.780
like if someone saw you out there, my kid, during

00:40:34.780 --> 00:40:36.119
the pandemic? You know, it's like he's thinking

00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:38.900
about the optics. He's thinking about sign value

00:40:38.900 --> 00:40:41.360
versus actual value. He's living in a postmodern

00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:44.719
world. But he's probably also in pain. I think

00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:46.280
we spend a little bit less time with his character,

00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:48.340
but there's a broken family story there, too.

00:40:48.940 --> 00:40:51.219
I think he really works in this movie, though.

00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:52.360
I think he's great. There's obviously been a

00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:55.599
little bit too much Pedro Pascal these days,

00:40:55.699 --> 00:40:59.239
but, like, that's just another problem. No, I

00:40:59.239 --> 00:41:01.559
think it's great too. I think our system is having

00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:05.539
a really hard time producing stars right now.

00:41:05.800 --> 00:41:08.519
So when a star like Pedro Pascal comes around,

00:41:08.619 --> 00:41:11.179
they overuse them. Yeah, exactly. It's like,

00:41:11.199 --> 00:41:13.039
oh my God, we got a guy here. We got a guy people

00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:14.579
actually want to go to the movies to look at

00:41:14.579 --> 00:41:19.219
right now. The chair company guy. How many fucking

00:41:19.219 --> 00:41:22.739
shows is he in right now? Oh my God, yeah. I

00:41:22.739 --> 00:41:24.380
actually haven't seen a single one either. I

00:41:24.380 --> 00:41:25.559
haven't seen anything with Tim Robbins. I'll

00:41:25.559 --> 00:41:28.369
tell you, the chair company is great. Is it?

00:41:28.369 --> 00:41:33.190
Cool, cool. I mean, so far, I don't know. But,

00:41:33.190 --> 00:41:37.690
yeah, I also just like, even though I think Ari

00:41:37.690 --> 00:41:39.769
Aster's trying to poke fun at both sides and,

00:41:39.789 --> 00:41:44.989
like, keep things a little bit vague and leave

00:41:44.989 --> 00:41:51.630
room for interpretation, I do think... He indulges

00:41:51.630 --> 00:41:54.750
on the same kind of pleasures that he does in

00:41:54.750 --> 00:41:57.230
his other movies by the time you get about halfway

00:41:57.230 --> 00:42:00.429
through or to the third act where you have something

00:42:00.429 --> 00:42:03.389
way more just kind of absurd, cartoony, and surreal

00:42:03.389 --> 00:42:08.250
start to go down. And yeah, so you touched on

00:42:08.250 --> 00:42:10.769
this earlier. The data center needs to get built.

00:42:10.849 --> 00:42:14.409
That's the point. Obviously, I don't believe

00:42:14.409 --> 00:42:17.329
that the conspiracy is that literally everything

00:42:17.329 --> 00:42:20.869
is planned, you know, COVID. George Floyd, everything.

00:42:21.030 --> 00:42:25.050
But I do think these events allow opportunities

00:42:25.050 --> 00:42:29.909
for the powerful to make moves. It's not saying

00:42:29.909 --> 00:42:33.170
it's planned, but it is saying that the tech

00:42:33.170 --> 00:42:36.550
companies who wanted that to happen and then

00:42:36.550 --> 00:42:40.590
allowed it to happen, took part in it happening,

00:42:40.670 --> 00:42:43.769
then benefited off of it happening. Maybe they

00:42:43.769 --> 00:42:45.929
didn't plan it, but they sure did a great improv

00:42:45.929 --> 00:42:49.730
dance to it. to the thing that they were really

00:42:49.730 --> 00:42:52.989
hoping would happen and accidentally they did

00:42:52.989 --> 00:42:59.230
make happen. I think it's kind of like my theory

00:42:59.230 --> 00:43:02.110
on 9 -11 and Pearl Harbor or COVID or a lot of

00:43:02.110 --> 00:43:04.869
these things are just like the government didn't

00:43:04.869 --> 00:43:08.570
design this and make it happen, but the moment

00:43:08.570 --> 00:43:11.329
it started to happen, they were like, okay, how

00:43:11.329 --> 00:43:16.349
can we use this? Maybe we should let... It's

00:43:16.349 --> 00:43:18.750
just like there's definitely motive and there's

00:43:18.750 --> 00:43:22.650
definitely like stated desire for this beforehand

00:43:22.650 --> 00:43:25.230
and motive. And then there's definitely like

00:43:25.230 --> 00:43:27.489
benefit from this afterwards. And they definitely

00:43:27.489 --> 00:43:31.889
took part in the act of the murder. But we can't

00:43:31.889 --> 00:43:35.389
convict. You know what I mean? I don't know.

00:43:35.510 --> 00:43:40.469
I just think what's interesting is that Joe Cross

00:43:40.469 --> 00:43:45.940
creates the boogeyman of Antifa. after he kills

00:43:45.940 --> 00:43:51.559
ted and then antifa actually shows up but it's

00:43:51.559 --> 00:43:53.519
like the government right it's not actually antifa

00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:57.539
it's like some it's the tech company it's bigger

00:43:57.539 --> 00:43:59.500
than the government they're the government they're

00:43:59.500 --> 00:44:01.739
the government that's the thing well i don't

00:44:01.739 --> 00:44:04.260
the government it's vague it's vague who it actually

00:44:04.260 --> 00:44:05.820
is but yeah i was gonna ask you who you think

00:44:05.820 --> 00:44:07.440
it is the tech companies okay it's got to be

00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:09.139
the tech companies they come in in the in the

00:44:09.139 --> 00:44:14.559
pristine uh uh planes and yeah No, the fact that

00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:16.920
they had the private plane was a giveaway. They're

00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:19.539
funded. They're extremely funded, and they have

00:44:19.539 --> 00:44:23.079
private planes. So I think that this movie actually

00:44:23.079 --> 00:44:25.440
does come down. I'm like, oh, by the way, they

00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:29.260
completely did it on purpose. They have funded

00:44:29.260 --> 00:44:32.179
planes and black ops, and they start crowds.

00:44:32.179 --> 00:44:33.800
That's what I was going to say, is in the end,

00:44:33.800 --> 00:44:36.219
it doesn't really stay vague on that point. It's

00:44:36.219 --> 00:44:38.239
like, oh, this is a conspiracy. There are people

00:44:38.239 --> 00:44:42.280
shaping the narrative, essentially. And that

00:44:42.280 --> 00:44:44.679
those people are Silicon Valley. And that's not

00:44:44.679 --> 00:44:49.440
wrong. It's true. It just is true. It is true

00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:52.800
even if it doesn't happen in the – even if it

00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:54.639
doesn't actually happen in the cartoony way the

00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:58.480
movie presents. Right. It ends up ringing true.

00:44:59.159 --> 00:45:01.460
The other thing though that I think is interesting

00:45:01.460 --> 00:45:06.679
that I don't have sussed out is why is the mother

00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:09.000
-in -law just like not weird and crazy anymore

00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:12.920
at the end? Why is she looking presentable? No.

00:45:13.420 --> 00:45:17.619
It's just that weird and crazy is the only thing

00:45:17.619 --> 00:45:19.099
that's left. She only looked weird and crazy

00:45:19.099 --> 00:45:20.920
earlier because he was questioning her. Nobody

00:45:20.920 --> 00:45:22.920
can question her anymore. Her daughter's not

00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:26.860
even there. She's just one. I just don't think

00:45:26.860 --> 00:45:30.599
that's not the vibe I get at all. Earlier in

00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:33.800
the movie, I know she looks more disheveled.

00:45:34.460 --> 00:45:36.559
Um, but like, it's a, it's a whole package. She

00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:38.480
looks disheveled. She looks like a frigging homeless

00:45:38.480 --> 00:45:41.460
person. She's like rambling literally all the

00:45:41.460 --> 00:45:43.219
time under her breath about conspiracy theories.

00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:47.119
She's like a frigging, like she's one. Yeah.

00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:49.480
In the end, she's one. Like at the beginning,

00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:52.239
the big problem between Joe and Louise at the

00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:54.119
beginning of the movie was that, that the mom

00:45:54.119 --> 00:45:56.739
was still there and that the mom was making Louise

00:45:56.739 --> 00:45:59.579
crazy too. And that Joe hated her being around

00:45:59.579 --> 00:46:01.739
and whatever. Like, and that was like a big,

00:46:01.780 --> 00:46:04.159
and then in the end, it's like, she gets rid

00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:06.500
of Louise even, and then it's just her and Joe.

00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:10.579
And like, she's got even her maid to fuck her

00:46:10.579 --> 00:46:12.500
and whatever. Like, I don't think that's, to

00:46:12.500 --> 00:46:14.699
me, that's a, that's a conversation about the

00:46:14.699 --> 00:46:16.679
right wing or something. Like that's a, that's

00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:18.420
a conversation about like Joaquin Phoenix actually

00:46:18.420 --> 00:46:21.519
is like a guy who's just like, this is wrong.

00:46:21.579 --> 00:46:22.800
Like you can't treat people like this. This is

00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:25.019
fucked up through COVID. That guy, who's like

00:46:25.019 --> 00:46:27.460
a reasonable guy, he dies. And who's left is

00:46:27.460 --> 00:46:29.800
kind of like the type of people who are in power

00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:34.110
now and stuff. Like, I don't know. Like, weird

00:46:34.110 --> 00:46:36.789
out there shit. Like, I don't know what the fuck

00:46:36.789 --> 00:46:40.090
is happening in politics anymore and stuff. Yeah.

00:46:40.849 --> 00:46:44.190
But I wouldn't just breeze past that, though.

00:46:44.210 --> 00:46:46.710
I think there is something very, very weird and

00:46:46.710 --> 00:46:50.150
surreal. Almost Bo is afraid, like, about the

00:46:50.150 --> 00:46:51.809
last part of the movie after he gets stabbed

00:46:51.809 --> 00:46:55.590
in the head. Almost like it's a dream. It's like

00:46:55.590 --> 00:46:58.429
an AI hallucination or something. Because I think

00:46:58.429 --> 00:47:01.519
the mother is like... explicitly a different

00:47:01.519 --> 00:47:05.179
person at that point like she's not talking conspiracy

00:47:05.179 --> 00:47:08.400
theory anymore she's not like a friggin buzzing

00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:11.500
detuned radio she looks presentable her hair's

00:47:11.500 --> 00:47:13.400
done she's just fulfilled by her sexless relationship

00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:18.539
with this hero and uh they're also they have

00:47:18.539 --> 00:47:21.820
money now but like why do they have money like

00:47:21.820 --> 00:47:24.159
there's some missing pieces like how do you piece

00:47:24.159 --> 00:47:26.420
together exactly what happened in the in like

00:47:26.420 --> 00:47:29.389
the space there Why is she giving a presentation

00:47:29.389 --> 00:47:33.489
for the opening of the AI data center? On his

00:47:33.489 --> 00:47:36.730
behalf? Just because he's a hero? Was she an

00:47:36.730 --> 00:47:40.570
agent, too, to subvert Joe Cross and whatever

00:47:40.570 --> 00:47:42.849
in the first place? Was she working for the AI

00:47:42.849 --> 00:47:46.230
company? Well, I don't know, but there's something

00:47:46.230 --> 00:47:48.449
just as weird about the ending of this movie

00:47:48.449 --> 00:47:51.050
as there is about the shadowy figures in the

00:47:51.050 --> 00:47:54.889
darkness in Velvet Goldmine. The movie seems

00:47:54.889 --> 00:47:58.980
to point to conspiracy. Yeah. No, you're right.

00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:01.679
I mean, maybe that is what is, what is Michael

00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:04.340
looking at in the end when he's looking at, you

00:48:04.340 --> 00:48:07.099
know, Joe Cross on stage and whatnot is, is maybe

00:48:07.099 --> 00:48:10.440
he's, maybe he's thinking about something that

00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:12.679
I haven't put my finger on yet. And you're right.

00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:14.039
Maybe it has to be. And the thing where he's,

00:48:14.039 --> 00:48:16.840
and like he's filming and then the person comes

00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:18.480
up and says, sir, this is a private event. You

00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:22.179
can't film here. Yeah. It's like, there's something

00:48:22.179 --> 00:48:24.480
like you can't like, why can't people see this?

00:48:24.659 --> 00:48:28.139
You know, there's. There's something about that

00:48:28.139 --> 00:48:32.400
ending, man. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. And yeah,

00:48:32.460 --> 00:48:34.260
in a way, I guess you could say she's fulfilling.

00:48:34.460 --> 00:48:36.519
She's kind of getting everything that she lost

00:48:36.519 --> 00:48:38.679
or whatever. Maybe that's why she's just like

00:48:38.679 --> 00:48:41.039
feeling in her oats again or something. She has

00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:42.860
her surrogate husband who she gets to take care

00:48:42.860 --> 00:48:46.380
of. She has money and they're in this nice house

00:48:46.380 --> 00:48:49.360
and all needs are met. And her daughter, who

00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:54.000
was like the source of all of her trauma, continuing

00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:57.349
to face her with the trauma of like, you know

00:48:57.349 --> 00:48:59.650
the family being broken up over this act of rape

00:48:59.650 --> 00:49:02.210
or whatever that that's not now gone and she

00:49:02.210 --> 00:49:04.710
can now just live in her own hallucination her

00:49:04.710 --> 00:49:09.469
own fantasy of life being more ideal or whatever

00:49:09.469 --> 00:49:11.010
i mean she gets to be a mother and take care

00:49:11.010 --> 00:49:15.050
of this guy and like i mean obviously she still

00:49:15.050 --> 00:49:20.849
seems really hurt and by like the video of her

00:49:20.849 --> 00:49:27.699
daughter with a baby bump you know right But...

00:49:27.699 --> 00:49:29.420
I don't know, man. There's something really weird.

00:49:29.579 --> 00:49:31.099
Something really, really weird going on there.

00:49:31.820 --> 00:49:34.960
Yeah. I mean, I think she's quite clearly another

00:49:34.960 --> 00:49:37.820
evil mother, like in Bo is Afraid, but I'm not

00:49:37.820 --> 00:49:42.599
really sure. I mean, again, this is... I don't

00:49:42.599 --> 00:49:46.000
know if evil is the right word, but yeah. She's

00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:49.000
another mother that he has problems with his

00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:51.840
mother, obviously. I think that there's some

00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:54.360
interesting relationship Ari Aster has with women

00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:58.659
in general, I think. He's Jewish. He has an overbearing

00:49:58.659 --> 00:50:04.480
Jewish mother. Classic stereotype. And yeah,

00:50:04.659 --> 00:50:06.679
the mother thing is still here. It's still very

00:50:06.679 --> 00:50:08.219
much in this movie. The mother thing is also

00:50:08.219 --> 00:50:12.480
in Hereditary. It's also... You could say it's

00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:13.780
a midsummer. It's usually an hereditary, but

00:50:13.780 --> 00:50:16.079
it's also definitely a midsummer too. I mean,

00:50:16.099 --> 00:50:20.480
less so mother, more so family. But still the

00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:22.599
gender dynamics thing of the woman kind of like,

00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:25.059
you know, killing her boyfriend at the end and

00:50:25.059 --> 00:50:26.780
whatever and becoming the maiden. Or her sister

00:50:26.780 --> 00:50:30.360
killing her parents and stuff like in the first

00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:34.940
place. I mean, this might get to a general point

00:50:34.940 --> 00:50:38.190
about Ari Aster's movies is that like, Like I

00:50:38.190 --> 00:50:39.989
said earlier, I find it to be a kindred spirit.

00:50:40.929 --> 00:50:43.289
I really like him. I really like his movies.

00:50:43.769 --> 00:50:46.250
But I've only seen every single one of them once

00:50:46.250 --> 00:50:49.369
because I'm kind of afraid that if I watch them

00:50:49.369 --> 00:50:52.250
again, I'm not going to think they're as good

00:50:52.250 --> 00:50:53.969
the second time. I think you'd be surprised.

00:50:54.690 --> 00:50:56.769
I think you'd be surprised. Maybe. I just did

00:50:56.769 --> 00:50:58.949
Midsommar again for the second time, I think,

00:50:58.969 --> 00:51:04.559
last night, and it was very good. I did the director's

00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:05.980
cut, which I think might have been a mistake.

00:51:06.059 --> 00:51:08.920
I think you might just want to go with the theatrical.

00:51:11.380 --> 00:51:13.500
Yeah, I still haven't been able to put my finger

00:51:13.500 --> 00:51:15.300
on it, and maybe it has to do with the fact that

00:51:15.300 --> 00:51:18.820
maybe he's too much like me or something, that

00:51:18.820 --> 00:51:21.159
I feel like he doesn't really have a lot to actually

00:51:21.159 --> 00:51:24.760
tell me or show me. It's all just like, oh, yeah,

00:51:24.780 --> 00:51:27.119
man, I feel that, I feel that, I feel that. Yeah,

00:51:27.219 --> 00:51:29.019
that's in my head too. Like, oh, totally, man.

00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:32.469
I know where your head's at. He's totally like

00:51:32.469 --> 00:51:38.730
an acid head galaxy brain guy. And I just relate

00:51:38.730 --> 00:51:43.429
to that. But I do think every single movie I

00:51:43.429 --> 00:51:45.170
feel the same way. I kind of feel like every

00:51:45.170 --> 00:51:48.789
single one of his movies has the same trajectory,

00:51:49.150 --> 00:51:52.329
kind of does the same thing, kind of has the

00:51:52.329 --> 00:51:56.329
same ending. I would definitely say so as far

00:51:56.329 --> 00:52:03.210
as pacing. And a certain type of aesthetic. Maybe

00:52:03.210 --> 00:52:06.130
not a visual aesthetic, but a pacing aesthetic.

00:52:06.409 --> 00:52:09.010
He has a thing. I agree. But I do think that

00:52:09.010 --> 00:52:13.190
these are very different movies. I mean, I don't

00:52:13.190 --> 00:52:16.570
know. This is very different from Midsommar or

00:52:16.570 --> 00:52:19.030
something. I guess Midsommar and Hereditary are

00:52:19.030 --> 00:52:22.010
very close to each other. I do think ultimately,

00:52:22.050 --> 00:52:27.230
regardless of the details, in the end, the protagonist

00:52:27.230 --> 00:52:31.000
is always... powerless to overcome the darkness

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:33.760
of the system that surrounds them and that they

00:52:33.760 --> 00:52:37.280
are a part of. They're always consumed by whatever

00:52:37.280 --> 00:52:42.260
prophecy, whatever system, whatever overbearing,

00:52:42.260 --> 00:52:46.079
dominating force. But I mean, that's true of

00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:53.199
any movie that's good. Come on, man. That's true

00:52:53.199 --> 00:52:57.760
of all the Paul Thomas Anderson movies. No, it's

00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:02.050
not true. Who's not overcome by the forces of

00:53:02.050 --> 00:53:07.130
degradation of the world? Do you have anything

00:53:07.130 --> 00:53:08.869
more to say, Baddington? Do you want to get into

00:53:08.869 --> 00:53:13.210
one battle after another? I don't have that much

00:53:13.210 --> 00:53:15.730
more to say. I would say that I think that we

00:53:15.730 --> 00:53:18.050
don't have... I at least don't have it completely

00:53:18.050 --> 00:53:20.510
figured out. I think that this movie does...

00:53:20.510 --> 00:53:24.150
I do think that Ari Aster's movies are worth

00:53:24.150 --> 00:53:26.980
watching a second time and kind of... that he

00:53:26.980 --> 00:53:31.519
has filled it up with details that when, you

00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:33.039
know, you go through this the first time, a lot

00:53:33.039 --> 00:53:35.119
of this stuff feels like, oh man, that's just

00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:37.639
like a lot of, yeah, it's 2020 zeitgeist, the

00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:40.900
movie. So let's just throw in the, the abuse

00:53:40.900 --> 00:53:44.260
stuff and let's throw in this and that. But I

00:53:44.260 --> 00:53:45.960
think, no, no, I think this is a guy who's really

00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:50.019
like looked at what was this year and in the

00:53:50.019 --> 00:53:52.199
preceding five or the subsequent five years.

00:53:53.039 --> 00:53:58.360
And what like, This is a part of it, and we're

00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:00.579
not going to have it explicitly talk about that,

00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:02.500
but that's a part of who this character is, and

00:54:02.500 --> 00:54:04.320
that character interacting with this character

00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:08.039
is what's happening in the world. I think that

00:54:08.039 --> 00:54:10.440
he's doing a very good job of showing us a microcosm

00:54:10.440 --> 00:54:15.840
of the actual American society post -COVID we've

00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:18.760
been living through. And I think that the details

00:54:18.760 --> 00:54:23.579
in that zeitgeist, like... really work on a second

00:54:23.579 --> 00:54:25.420
viewing. And I also think that like after watching

00:54:25.420 --> 00:54:27.039
Midsommar a second time, the details in that

00:54:27.039 --> 00:54:33.139
movie are all very, very like worth reflecting

00:54:33.139 --> 00:54:37.159
on again and stuff too. I'm sure Bo is afraid

00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:38.780
I would need at least another viewing because

00:54:38.780 --> 00:54:40.860
I barely remember what the fuck that movie was.

00:54:41.659 --> 00:54:44.599
I know, right? I'm giving him the benefit of

00:54:44.599 --> 00:54:48.230
the doubt because I will say that like The only

00:54:48.230 --> 00:54:50.849
one of his movies I didn't really enjoy the whole

00:54:50.849 --> 00:54:57.349
way through was Bo's Afraid. By the end, I was

00:54:57.349 --> 00:55:02.269
very exhausted and just kind of felt like it

00:55:02.269 --> 00:55:06.710
made the point so long ago and wasn't adding

00:55:06.710 --> 00:55:09.869
anything. yeah it like gave you the finger and

00:55:09.869 --> 00:55:12.170
i kind of feel like halfway through and then

00:55:12.170 --> 00:55:14.510
there was another like hour after that it's like

00:55:14.510 --> 00:55:16.630
you already gave us the finger dude like you're

00:55:16.630 --> 00:55:18.989
already saying this is fuck you so what are we

00:55:18.989 --> 00:55:22.150
doing here even though i didn't like bow is afraid

00:55:22.150 --> 00:55:25.329
as much as the other two before that it's the

00:55:25.329 --> 00:55:28.530
one i couldn't stop thinking about right um it's

00:55:28.530 --> 00:55:30.510
the one that has the most vivid imagery just

00:55:30.510 --> 00:55:34.579
like the most like intrigue there's so much more

00:55:34.579 --> 00:55:37.300
space for interpretation and just like try to

00:55:37.300 --> 00:55:39.179
figure out kind of like, what is this movie doing?

00:55:39.659 --> 00:55:42.780
I mean, I think that was clearly the depths of

00:55:42.780 --> 00:55:46.659
a sort of acid binge of some sort. It was on

00:55:46.659 --> 00:55:49.179
that tour when it came out with, uh, it's so

00:55:49.179 --> 00:55:51.800
acid brained. There was, there was when Joaquin

00:55:51.800 --> 00:55:54.780
Phoenix came out on, uh, it was, I don't know

00:55:54.780 --> 00:55:56.420
if it was the premiere. It was, it's at some

00:55:56.420 --> 00:55:59.099
point touring with that movie. And it was just

00:55:59.099 --> 00:56:02.070
like, Well, we're here with Ari Aster and Nathan

00:56:02.070 --> 00:56:05.090
Fielder. They're backstage. They took too much

00:56:05.090 --> 00:56:07.050
acid. There's not going to be a speech. They

00:56:07.050 --> 00:56:10.230
took, those guys are on too much acid. So we're

00:56:10.230 --> 00:56:15.820
going to just enjoy the movie. I love that Joaquin

00:56:15.820 --> 00:56:19.139
Phoenix, Ari Aster, and Nathan Fielder are all

00:56:19.139 --> 00:56:23.940
taking LSD together in the year 2023 or whatever

00:56:23.940 --> 00:56:27.340
the fuck it was. That's who this guy is. And

00:56:27.340 --> 00:56:30.219
that's where that movie came out of. And I think

00:56:30.219 --> 00:56:32.639
that Eddington comes out of a similar sensibility

00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:35.800
at the very least. It's still psychedelic and

00:56:35.800 --> 00:56:38.000
surreal even though it's the most grounded of

00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:41.400
any of his movies. The first two kind of... The

00:56:41.400 --> 00:56:44.400
first two kind of have the horror elements to

00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:47.000
back up the surreal stuff. I mean, Midsommar

00:56:47.000 --> 00:56:50.059
is a very grounded movie. Every single part of

00:56:50.059 --> 00:56:53.340
that movie feels like it could happen. Hereditary,

00:56:53.340 --> 00:56:55.719
I feel like there is a certain level at a certain

00:56:55.719 --> 00:56:58.400
point that gets out there, but I feel like that's

00:56:58.400 --> 00:56:59.539
also still pretty grounded. It's a ghost possession

00:56:59.539 --> 00:57:03.059
movie. It's a ghost possession movie. I think

00:57:03.059 --> 00:57:07.639
editing once you've got the people swinging in

00:57:07.639 --> 00:57:13.280
on the flight to be, the antifa terrorists or

00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:15.079
whatever i think that's that's kind of yeah once

00:57:15.079 --> 00:57:17.920
i saw it's almost both afraid level craziness

00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:20.559
no i know i know but it's still it still feels

00:57:20.559 --> 00:57:24.619
like real enough so like there is but i i did

00:57:24.619 --> 00:57:28.099
appreciate how eddington got surreal but not

00:57:28.099 --> 00:57:31.739
like way over the top surreal in a way that bozo

00:57:31.739 --> 00:57:34.260
like i was afraid that it would like kind of

00:57:34.260 --> 00:57:36.960
do a penis monster at some point right right

00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:39.239
right yeah yeah but it but it was gonna give

00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:41.000
you the finger and be like yeah you guys are

00:57:41.000 --> 00:57:44.260
idiots for watching this movie fuck you yeah

00:57:44.260 --> 00:57:48.380
yeah exactly yeah but it didn't it was yeah and

00:57:48.380 --> 00:57:51.300
i i did like that because that was something

00:57:51.300 --> 00:57:53.800
that kind of didn't win me over with those afraid

00:57:53.800 --> 00:57:56.179
but i might enjoy and appreciate more in a second

00:57:56.179 --> 00:57:58.820
viewing but i guess the other thing is like i'm

00:57:58.820 --> 00:58:01.179
giving him the benefit of the doubt but as of

00:58:01.179 --> 00:58:04.500
right now Part of my problem is that when I think

00:58:04.500 --> 00:58:06.840
about the movies afterwards, like, yeah, I agree.

00:58:06.940 --> 00:58:09.199
There's so many great details. I love it. It's

00:58:09.199 --> 00:58:12.019
so creative. It's so fun. But a lot of the times

00:58:12.019 --> 00:58:14.019
I feel like those details are just additive and

00:58:14.019 --> 00:58:16.219
they don't actually like change the way you thought

00:58:16.219 --> 00:58:20.579
about the movie initially. I think like no detail

00:58:20.579 --> 00:58:22.960
I've noticed or researched or found out more

00:58:22.960 --> 00:58:25.860
about in Eddington has changed essentially what

00:58:25.860 --> 00:58:28.480
I thought the movie was after like 10 minutes

00:58:28.480 --> 00:58:31.059
of it or something, you know? I didn't, there's

00:58:31.059 --> 00:58:32.719
not like something that was revealed that like

00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:34.760
made me feel like, oh, it's actually the opposite

00:58:34.760 --> 00:58:39.139
or, oh, actually that's like a totally subversive

00:58:39.139 --> 00:58:41.000
idea. And this is just like, you know what I

00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:43.800
mean? Like it didn't feel very like cover story,

00:58:44.019 --> 00:58:46.219
true meaning kind of thing. It feels like very

00:58:46.219 --> 00:58:50.679
just straightforward about what it's touching

00:58:50.679 --> 00:58:55.260
on, what things represent. And it only takes

00:58:55.260 --> 00:58:57.869
like a. It only takes a quick Google search to

00:58:57.869 --> 00:59:00.269
figure out what solid gold Magikarp represents,

00:59:00.650 --> 00:59:05.230
and it doesn't take much to kind of piece together

00:59:05.230 --> 00:59:07.849
what the sort of overarching point is, but I

00:59:07.849 --> 00:59:11.329
still want to give him more credit. There are

00:59:11.329 --> 00:59:13.010
things there. There are things there that can

00:59:13.010 --> 00:59:16.929
be dug into that aren't just totally straightforward,

00:59:17.030 --> 00:59:19.449
that do come from the details and the little

00:59:19.449 --> 00:59:23.750
asides and just those little things he includes

00:59:23.750 --> 00:59:26.559
that don't necessarily add up. Like, what's the

00:59:26.559 --> 00:59:29.920
deal with that stuff? And so he's very interesting.

00:59:29.980 --> 00:59:32.119
I guess like the last thing I wanted to say about

00:59:32.119 --> 00:59:34.780
Eddington just as a New Mexican is like I live

00:59:34.780 --> 00:59:38.099
in New Mexico now. And it was definitely interesting

00:59:38.099 --> 00:59:42.940
to see a movie that is so intimately shot in

00:59:42.940 --> 00:59:46.619
a place that I know. I've been to Truth or Consequences,

00:59:46.639 --> 00:59:50.440
which is the city the movie was shot in. It's

00:59:50.440 --> 00:59:53.730
a small town. like an hour and a half south of

00:59:53.730 --> 00:59:57.670
Albuquerque. It's near White Sands, relatively

00:59:57.670 --> 01:00:00.090
close to the place where the first nuclear bomb

01:00:00.090 --> 01:00:05.070
went off. And yeah, and the inclusion of the

01:00:05.070 --> 01:00:08.190
tribal police, right? The acknowledgement of

01:00:08.190 --> 01:00:12.070
the stolen land acknowledgement stuff, the fact

01:00:12.070 --> 01:00:16.369
that it was a mining town. That is very, very

01:00:16.369 --> 01:00:19.150
ingrained into the history and culture here.

01:00:20.920 --> 01:00:22.579
the native people are still very much around

01:00:22.579 --> 01:00:26.960
here and they have a lot of land here. And so

01:00:26.960 --> 01:00:31.900
there is much more of a like in your face reminder

01:00:31.900 --> 01:00:37.320
of the fact that we are like, you know, colonizers

01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:41.440
and whatever. And I think it's interesting that

01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:44.480
like nobody in Eddington has like an interesting

01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:47.400
regional accent or something like that. Like

01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:49.219
these are just like white people who came from

01:00:49.219 --> 01:00:52.699
the East. And then, like, a couple generations

01:00:52.699 --> 01:00:57.119
later, here you go, you have this. And then you

01:00:57.119 --> 01:01:00.179
connect them all to the internet. But I think

01:01:00.179 --> 01:01:05.460
basically the setting just feels like a really

01:01:05.460 --> 01:01:08.780
appropriate place to tell this story. And, you

01:01:08.780 --> 01:01:09.960
know, people have brought up before how this

01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:14.920
is, like, one of the only truly modern westerns

01:01:14.920 --> 01:01:18.159
or whatever. It really plays like a western.

01:01:19.829 --> 01:01:22.929
which is super cool. I can see that to a certain

01:01:22.929 --> 01:01:25.869
degree. I mean, I think it's dealing with Western

01:01:25.869 --> 01:01:28.670
archetypes and characters and whatnot, but I

01:01:28.670 --> 01:01:32.389
don't know. Yeah, I mean, that wouldn't be the

01:01:32.389 --> 01:01:34.590
best way to look at it or whatever. That's just

01:01:34.590 --> 01:01:36.409
more of like a style aesthetic kind of thing

01:01:36.409 --> 01:01:38.030
of like, you know, it's shot in the Southwest,

01:01:38.329 --> 01:01:42.610
small town. It's about as like Western vibe as

01:01:42.610 --> 01:01:45.250
you can get. It is Western. Yeah, it's in New

01:01:45.250 --> 01:01:48.219
Mexico. It's Southwestern. You're dealing with

01:01:48.219 --> 01:01:50.920
a sheriff of a town and a mayor who are in a

01:01:50.920 --> 01:01:54.440
conflict. That could easily be a story told in

01:01:54.440 --> 01:01:57.619
Western times and you just kind of sub out. But

01:01:57.619 --> 01:02:00.280
the technology thing is the part that's different,

01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:02.460
right? And the thing that's unique about this

01:02:02.460 --> 01:02:07.320
Western is this town is not operating under the

01:02:07.320 --> 01:02:12.000
assumptions of the late 1800s or whatever. But

01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:14.920
yeah, I really like that tribal cop who's just

01:02:14.920 --> 01:02:18.550
like, It's kind of stereotypical, but I love

01:02:18.550 --> 01:02:20.409
that he's a great tracker and he finds the casing.

01:02:20.469 --> 01:02:22.210
He just knows how to do his job and he's piecing

01:02:22.210 --> 01:02:23.789
it together really well, but then he just kind

01:02:23.789 --> 01:02:26.389
of becomes irrelevant because Antifa shoots him

01:02:26.389 --> 01:02:31.829
in the head. Those guys, they're trying so hard.

01:02:32.190 --> 01:02:35.849
They're so competent, but they're also the ones

01:02:35.849 --> 01:02:38.570
telling him to wear the mask first thing. If

01:02:38.570 --> 01:02:40.650
you don't put that on, we're getting out of our

01:02:40.650 --> 01:02:44.849
car and making you put it on. The intensity of

01:02:44.849 --> 01:02:46.650
the put on the mask stuff in the beginning is

01:02:46.650 --> 01:02:50.690
really, really crazy. It was real. It happened.

01:02:50.949 --> 01:02:53.530
It happened, yeah. But the movie didn't really

01:02:53.530 --> 01:02:57.349
focus on the Pueblos very much. It's not about

01:02:57.349 --> 01:02:59.610
the Pueblo. And, like, I don't know. That's another

01:02:59.610 --> 01:03:02.670
thing where, like, this movie chooses to focus

01:03:02.670 --> 01:03:05.409
on so much that it becomes easier to criticize

01:03:05.409 --> 01:03:08.969
it for what it doesn't focus on. And, like, COVID

01:03:08.969 --> 01:03:11.860
hit Pueblos really, really hard. people were

01:03:11.860 --> 01:03:14.780
dying in like greater numbers in Pueblos than

01:03:14.780 --> 01:03:16.760
they were in the white towns nearby and stuff.

01:03:17.400 --> 01:03:20.440
And also like Pueblos have like a really, really

01:03:20.440 --> 01:03:23.380
high rate of child abduction, just like missing

01:03:23.380 --> 01:03:26.099
persons, which is also a part of this movie.

01:03:26.380 --> 01:03:30.179
Um, but it's never really touched on, but I just

01:03:30.179 --> 01:03:31.760
wanted to like, since I've been here in New Mexico

01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:34.000
and that's kind of like, just trying to give

01:03:34.000 --> 01:03:36.400
some insight into some of the more New Mexico

01:03:36.400 --> 01:03:39.059
things like Zozobra makes an appearance when

01:03:39.059 --> 01:03:42.380
he's driving and he's being led by Antifa with

01:03:42.380 --> 01:03:44.659
like the flaming arrows and whatever. And then

01:03:44.659 --> 01:03:46.340
he looks to his left and gets scared by that

01:03:46.340 --> 01:03:49.719
thing on the roof. That is Zozobra, which is

01:03:49.719 --> 01:03:56.000
like a annual New Mexican tradition where they

01:03:56.000 --> 01:04:01.480
inflate this giant man. And then burn him. So

01:04:01.480 --> 01:04:04.739
it's a kind of Burning Man. It started before

01:04:04.739 --> 01:04:09.860
Burning Man, I'm pretty sure. But the idea that

01:04:09.860 --> 01:04:12.900
you would put Zazobra on the roof and write white

01:04:12.900 --> 01:04:16.099
supremacy on it is really interesting. Because

01:04:16.099 --> 01:04:19.980
the whole cultural practice of Zazobra was created

01:04:19.980 --> 01:04:24.579
by a white man. And it's definitely sort of a

01:04:24.579 --> 01:04:28.239
co -opted tradition of some sort. It comes from

01:04:28.239 --> 01:04:31.289
some kind of more... native ritual that this

01:04:31.289 --> 01:04:36.070
white man kind of co -opted, and then he designed

01:04:36.070 --> 01:04:39.150
this really weird, idiosyncratic, freaky character

01:04:39.150 --> 01:04:45.630
that represents all the gloom in your life. And

01:04:45.630 --> 01:04:48.849
so every year they set up this Zazobra, and you

01:04:48.849 --> 01:04:52.550
write the things that you want to release from

01:04:52.550 --> 01:04:55.550
your life on a piece of paper, and then they

01:04:55.550 --> 01:04:57.849
burn the man, you burn the pieces of paper, and

01:04:57.849 --> 01:05:02.119
you get rid of the gloom. The idea that this

01:05:02.119 --> 01:05:06.820
symbol is both a symbol of relieving yourself

01:05:06.820 --> 01:05:09.420
of the gloom and trauma in your life, but also

01:05:09.420 --> 01:05:12.719
a symbol of white supremacy and colonialism is

01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:18.860
pretty interesting. And on the colonialism aspect

01:05:18.860 --> 01:05:24.599
in general, you've heard a lot of people these

01:05:24.599 --> 01:05:30.559
days talk about These tech companies and their

01:05:30.559 --> 01:05:35.800
goal as a sort of colonization of the mind. It's

01:05:35.800 --> 01:05:38.179
this kind of idea that... War of the country,

01:05:38.340 --> 01:05:41.800
yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's the idea that there's

01:05:41.800 --> 01:05:44.000
no more land that can be colonized. There's no

01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:49.179
more space that can be taken up. That the kind

01:05:49.179 --> 01:05:53.659
of final frontier for capitalism is to control

01:05:53.659 --> 01:05:58.360
every waking moment. of your time and your mind

01:05:58.360 --> 01:06:01.360
and what you think about right so like yeah something

01:06:01.360 --> 01:06:03.579
you see on social media can become the thing

01:06:03.579 --> 01:06:06.260
you think about all day it just takes up so much

01:06:06.260 --> 01:06:08.539
of your time and energy and mind mental space

01:06:08.539 --> 01:06:12.599
the final frontier and then when they have that

01:06:12.599 --> 01:06:16.260
they truly own you that's true mind control and

01:06:16.260 --> 01:06:20.139
true population control and covid like you know

01:06:20.139 --> 01:06:22.619
some people think covid was like a soft run like

01:06:22.619 --> 01:06:26.860
a little experiment to see just how easy it would

01:06:26.860 --> 01:06:30.840
be to get people to do what you told them and

01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:32.539
how easy it would be to turn people against one

01:06:32.539 --> 01:06:36.059
another and direct people based on narratives

01:06:36.059 --> 01:06:39.139
or whatever. But I still really have skepticism

01:06:39.139 --> 01:06:42.280
about the idea of full conspiracy, full control

01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:44.880
over anything that happens on this world because

01:06:44.880 --> 01:06:48.119
I still ultimately side with the Jurassic Park.

01:06:48.219 --> 01:06:51.820
Like, every chaotic system cannot be controlled.

01:06:51.920 --> 01:06:53.460
It'll eventually do something you can't predict.

01:06:55.449 --> 01:06:57.590
The people in power are always in a much better

01:06:57.590 --> 01:07:02.070
position to act on these random happenings and

01:07:02.070 --> 01:07:05.309
benefit from them. Of course. That's part of

01:07:05.309 --> 01:07:09.030
the idea of a war zone. Yeah, exactly. A war

01:07:09.030 --> 01:07:12.010
zone somewhere that you can't really see into

01:07:12.010 --> 01:07:14.469
or out of the fog of war and whatnot. And there's

01:07:14.469 --> 01:07:17.150
a lot of profit to be made in there. Oh, yeah.

01:07:17.610 --> 01:07:20.389
And if you make the entire country a war zone,

01:07:20.630 --> 01:07:25.800
a lot of profit to be made. Mm -hmm. Yeah, and

01:07:25.800 --> 01:07:30.960
especially because I think what we've seen with

01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:35.199
the Middle East and what's going on with Israel

01:07:35.199 --> 01:07:40.360
and Gaza, I think what we've seen is evidence

01:07:40.360 --> 01:07:44.900
in real time that there were certain platforms

01:07:44.900 --> 01:07:48.579
of information sharing that people in power did

01:07:48.579 --> 01:07:51.780
not have control over. And that allowed people

01:07:51.780 --> 01:07:54.340
to get fed narratives, whether they were true

01:07:54.340 --> 01:07:56.280
or not, that were against the interests of the

01:07:56.280 --> 01:08:00.119
state. That were very effective, honestly. And

01:08:00.119 --> 01:08:04.980
then when you see the government and corporations'

01:08:05.219 --> 01:08:09.960
response to that is to ban free speech, kick

01:08:09.960 --> 01:08:12.460
people out of our country, fuck over green card

01:08:12.460 --> 01:08:20.029
holders, to have Zionists like... david ellison

01:08:20.029 --> 01:08:25.630
by paramount to have a zionist like barry weiss

01:08:25.630 --> 01:08:32.529
taking over cbs to have david ellison also purchasing

01:08:32.529 --> 01:08:35.609
tiktok which was the primary platform that uh

01:08:35.609 --> 01:08:39.930
on the ground palestinian video was shared um

01:08:39.930 --> 01:08:42.670
just seems to me like they don't always have

01:08:42.670 --> 01:08:44.489
control over things but they're always in a pretty

01:08:44.489 --> 01:08:47.470
good position to take control over things what

01:08:47.470 --> 01:08:54.710
do you mean they you know what i mean no seriously

01:08:54.710 --> 01:08:58.909
i don't mean that um but but they really are

01:08:58.909 --> 01:09:01.470
not doing themselves any favors they really are

01:09:01.470 --> 01:09:05.270
not aren't they um but you know we had heavy

01:09:05.270 --> 01:09:08.810
meadow on the show he's uh you know he's one

01:09:08.810 --> 01:09:13.130
of the one of them he's one of the chosen ones

01:09:13.130 --> 01:09:19.239
man and um he represents the diaspora more than

01:09:19.239 --> 01:09:21.819
I think Barry Weiss does or something, you know,

01:09:21.819 --> 01:09:27.260
but, but anyway, um, I guess some stray thoughts,

01:09:27.340 --> 01:09:29.319
like a couple of things we didn't touch on, man,

01:09:29.359 --> 01:09:32.859
is like the kids. I thought all this stuff with

01:09:32.859 --> 01:09:34.619
the kids in this movie, it was really great.

01:09:35.159 --> 01:09:39.659
Almost painful. Like that character, Brian is

01:09:39.659 --> 01:09:45.140
like such a fucking, uh, I mean, it kind of goes

01:09:45.140 --> 01:09:46.699
back to the things you were saying about, um,

01:09:47.650 --> 01:09:52.090
What he believes is just social currency. Yeah,

01:09:52.130 --> 01:09:54.510
yeah. Like he says the whole thing about like,

01:09:54.550 --> 01:09:56.170
well, there's different kinds of privilege and

01:09:56.170 --> 01:09:57.890
he's just trying to inject a little nuance into

01:09:57.890 --> 01:09:59.789
the situation. What are you, retarded? It's your

01:09:59.789 --> 01:10:05.630
wife. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's to his dad, but

01:10:05.630 --> 01:10:07.550
even when he says it to his friend and the girls.

01:10:07.550 --> 01:10:09.029
It's one of the funniest things I've ever, like,

01:10:09.050 --> 01:10:11.489
I love it. It's so straightforward. They're talking

01:10:11.489 --> 01:10:13.479
about. They're talking about white privilege

01:10:13.479 --> 01:10:15.260
and he's like, well, yeah, but there are like

01:10:15.260 --> 01:10:17.420
some white people who are not as privileged as

01:10:17.420 --> 01:10:19.340
others and there's different levels of privilege.

01:10:19.819 --> 01:10:22.800
And they just like gaslight him into thinking

01:10:22.800 --> 01:10:25.279
like, you're an idiot, dude. It's like, what

01:10:25.279 --> 01:10:26.460
are you talking about? No, there's just white

01:10:26.460 --> 01:10:28.479
privilege. Oh, yeah, right. That's what I meant.

01:10:29.079 --> 01:10:31.779
Can I get laid now? It really stings. It really

01:10:31.779 --> 01:10:34.279
stings to watch a person just try to like say

01:10:34.279 --> 01:10:36.020
something reasonable and then just get totally

01:10:36.020 --> 01:10:39.079
like gaslit. But then he doesn't rise above that.

01:10:39.180 --> 01:10:43.090
He actually is just like a fucking lemming. I

01:10:43.090 --> 01:10:45.250
think that's what's interesting, though, is that

01:10:45.250 --> 01:10:48.670
he like if you and I were brought up in this

01:10:48.670 --> 01:10:51.390
paradigm, maybe we would be him. That's like

01:10:51.390 --> 01:10:54.210
it's not his fault. He starts off with the reasonable

01:10:54.210 --> 01:10:56.989
like response. And then it's like, no, no, dude,

01:10:57.109 --> 01:10:59.270
the only thing that's rewarded here is this.

01:10:59.310 --> 01:11:01.829
So you have to become this. There isn't like

01:11:01.829 --> 01:11:06.970
reason and actual like thinking through and taking

01:11:06.970 --> 01:11:10.659
in information and putting out new. processing

01:11:10.659 --> 01:11:15.460
and putting out a response that's like not valued

01:11:15.460 --> 01:11:18.220
the way that just like repeating the same thing

01:11:18.220 --> 01:11:20.819
as the other people in your cohort is valued

01:11:20.819 --> 01:11:26.399
and so like even a person who starts off with

01:11:26.399 --> 01:11:32.060
healthy skepticism and a good brain um they don't

01:11:32.060 --> 01:11:35.939
have through the like skinnery like the the the

01:11:35.939 --> 01:11:41.250
walden 2 sort of thing the the through conditioning

01:11:41.250 --> 01:11:45.829
there is no way to develop a person who has reasoning

01:11:45.829 --> 01:11:48.829
you know what i'm saying like he you see him

01:11:48.829 --> 01:11:50.390
be like oh wait but there's actually something

01:11:50.390 --> 01:11:51.930
reasonable and they're like no no no he gets

01:11:51.930 --> 01:11:53.369
knocked down to the point where it's just like

01:11:53.369 --> 01:11:55.689
he has to become that other thing and then in

01:11:55.689 --> 01:11:57.869
the end he just becomes the hero for the other

01:11:57.869 --> 01:12:00.029
side because he shoots the antifa peppers and

01:12:00.029 --> 01:12:02.590
shit right like on on the internet i mean he's

01:12:02.590 --> 01:12:05.550
basically alex from a clockwork orange like yeah

01:12:05.550 --> 01:12:07.510
yeah you just see that you just see that kid

01:12:07.510 --> 01:12:11.250
get destroyed and become the biggest tool of

01:12:11.250 --> 01:12:13.850
the system imaginable just so he can get the

01:12:13.850 --> 01:12:17.050
pussy. Just so he can get the girl. It's just

01:12:17.050 --> 01:12:19.970
being the revolutionary for pussy again. Sorry

01:12:19.970 --> 01:12:23.789
to bother you. To be fair, that's also what Joe

01:12:23.789 --> 01:12:27.069
Cross is trying to do. He's just less of a fucking...

01:12:28.000 --> 01:12:30.119
He's not a nerd. He's a jock. That's the difference.

01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:34.079
Joe Cross is trying to defeat his enemies, at

01:12:34.079 --> 01:12:37.520
least. That fucking kid is just a weaselly little

01:12:37.520 --> 01:12:39.880
fucking nerd who's willing to say anything to

01:12:39.880 --> 01:12:43.680
get pussy. He doesn't really have any enemies.

01:12:44.539 --> 01:12:47.460
That's the post -Revenge of the Nerds paradigm.

01:12:48.100 --> 01:12:51.039
That's what these kids are brought up in, so

01:12:51.039 --> 01:12:54.479
you can't expect better of them. Yeah, but...

01:12:55.369 --> 01:12:58.350
They were painful, the kids. They were painfully

01:12:58.350 --> 01:13:01.130
unlikable. Yeah, what's as painfully unlikable

01:13:01.130 --> 01:13:04.729
as kids are today? But I also personally thought

01:13:04.729 --> 01:13:07.850
that every character in Eddington is unlikable.

01:13:08.170 --> 01:13:10.810
And I think there's, like, different levels of

01:13:10.810 --> 01:13:14.170
what that means. I think, like, I'm not really

01:13:14.170 --> 01:13:16.289
talking about... What about Officer Jimenez?

01:13:17.130 --> 01:13:19.010
Oh, yeah, he's the one likable guy. He was the

01:13:19.010 --> 01:13:23.380
best. Yeah. No, dude, I love him. I would say

01:13:23.380 --> 01:13:25.420
that to your point earlier of like them leaving

01:13:25.420 --> 01:13:28.560
out the native perspective or whatever. It's

01:13:28.560 --> 01:13:30.920
like, no, no, no. They put in only one person

01:13:30.920 --> 01:13:33.220
in the movie who's reasonable and likable and

01:13:33.220 --> 01:13:36.000
then gets shot for no reason. And that's the

01:13:36.000 --> 01:13:40.039
native perspective. That's like the most honorable

01:13:40.039 --> 01:13:43.319
thing. You're actually right. That really does

01:13:43.319 --> 01:13:46.880
just tell the story. Yeah, that really does just

01:13:46.880 --> 01:13:50.260
tell the native story. Like, he is so capable.

01:13:50.340 --> 01:13:52.340
The most sympathetic version of the native story,

01:13:52.399 --> 01:13:54.479
I would say. Like, that character is actually

01:13:54.479 --> 01:13:57.439
tied into the here and now and what's going on

01:13:57.439 --> 01:14:01.619
and sees stuff, you know? Yeah, exactly. And

01:14:01.619 --> 01:14:04.039
he's just gunned down for being a good person

01:14:04.039 --> 01:14:05.359
who wants to do the right thing and actually

01:14:05.359 --> 01:14:07.720
sees what's going on. Right, right. That person

01:14:07.720 --> 01:14:12.630
can't be allowed to exist. Exactly. And he, like

01:14:12.630 --> 01:14:14.869
Joe Cross and everyone else at the end of the

01:14:14.869 --> 01:14:17.329
movie, doesn't have a voice left in the modern,

01:14:17.470 --> 01:14:19.510
you know what I mean, in the post -COVID paradigm.

01:14:20.210 --> 01:14:24.489
He's one of the voices that's eliminated. Nope.

01:14:24.510 --> 01:14:27.630
The only voice of reason. And I also don't think

01:14:27.630 --> 01:14:32.369
he doesn't take any pleasure in trying to one

01:14:32.369 --> 01:14:34.930
-up Joe Cross. He just wants to fucking help

01:14:34.930 --> 01:14:39.289
and work with him. Totally. Maybe that's a little

01:14:39.289 --> 01:14:41.920
different than the... Then the tribal police

01:14:41.920 --> 01:14:43.500
at the beginning who are like telling him to

01:14:43.500 --> 01:14:48.800
put on the mask. But I love that character. Yeah,

01:14:48.859 --> 01:14:50.539
I think he's like the most likable character.

01:14:50.960 --> 01:14:53.159
But I'm also kind of just talking about how like

01:14:53.159 --> 01:14:57.039
when I say likable, I don't mean they're people

01:14:57.039 --> 01:14:59.979
who in reality I would really enjoy hanging out

01:14:59.979 --> 01:15:02.199
with and having a beer with or whatever. Just

01:15:02.199 --> 01:15:07.020
like finding them to be likable and enjoyable

01:15:07.020 --> 01:15:11.159
to watch on screen. in a way that, like, it makes

01:15:11.159 --> 01:15:14.619
you giddy or whatever. In a way that, like...

01:15:14.619 --> 01:15:17.979
I really liked Ted Garcia and Joe Cross. I enjoyed

01:15:17.979 --> 01:15:21.439
both those performances a lot. I liked when Garcia

01:15:21.439 --> 01:15:24.500
was yelling at his son and shit. I thought Joe

01:15:24.500 --> 01:15:27.180
was great in the grocery store. Like, I loved

01:15:27.180 --> 01:15:30.189
both those performances. Like, a lot. And his,

01:15:30.210 --> 01:15:34.770
like, condescension to Joe. Like, the, like,

01:15:34.890 --> 01:15:37.369
I don't know. Their interactions. I think those

01:15:37.369 --> 01:15:39.970
were, I thought, very likable performances by

01:15:39.970 --> 01:15:45.810
that definition. I would say certainly in some

01:15:45.810 --> 01:15:49.710
moments. But I feel like most of the time things

01:15:49.710 --> 01:15:54.310
feel a lot more perfunctory and, like, they're

01:15:54.310 --> 01:16:00.180
fulfilling some kind of, like, role or duty within

01:16:00.180 --> 01:16:02.439
the context of the script or story or some kind

01:16:02.439 --> 01:16:06.119
of archetypal need or whatever. I think, and

01:16:06.119 --> 01:16:07.640
this is something I guess I wanted to focus on

01:16:07.640 --> 01:16:09.760
transitioning into one battle after another,

01:16:09.880 --> 01:16:12.939
just because of like the, the kind of differences

01:16:12.939 --> 01:16:15.260
between the movies and their sensibilities or

01:16:15.260 --> 01:16:19.520
whatever. But, um, I think Eddington is a movie

01:16:19.520 --> 01:16:22.319
you could see as like a comedy, but it's not

01:16:22.319 --> 01:16:24.859
one I ever laughed out loud at. There were like

01:16:24.859 --> 01:16:29.880
a couple funny moments, I think. But I don't

01:16:29.880 --> 01:16:33.279
know. I never felt watching any single performance

01:16:33.279 --> 01:16:36.119
in this movie that giddiness I get from Daniel

01:16:36.119 --> 01:16:39.579
Day -Lewis in There Will Be Blood or Heath Ledger

01:16:39.579 --> 01:16:44.500
as the Joker or even Yaw Queen Phoenix in a number

01:16:44.500 --> 01:16:46.739
of other movies. I just rewatched The Master.

01:16:47.840 --> 01:16:50.479
Oh my God, The Master is fucking amazing, dude.

01:16:50.579 --> 01:16:53.020
But I'm just like... I'm a little played out

01:16:53.020 --> 01:16:55.800
on Yaw Queen Phoenix. I kind of think his ability

01:16:55.800 --> 01:17:02.460
to really find new dynamic characters is waning

01:17:02.460 --> 01:17:05.140
a bit. I still like him. I still like to see

01:17:05.140 --> 01:17:06.779
his face on screen. I think he's a great actor.

01:17:07.340 --> 01:17:12.159
But I think they're more serviceable in this

01:17:12.159 --> 01:17:15.399
movie than really stand out. And it's not really

01:17:15.399 --> 01:17:18.359
like the character performances that I was finding.

01:17:20.030 --> 01:17:21.949
That's not really what I found entertaining about

01:17:21.949 --> 01:17:26.470
this movie. It was more just the totality of

01:17:26.470 --> 01:17:29.670
it all and the vibe and the cinema of it and

01:17:29.670 --> 01:17:35.149
the tension of it. Astor really is a master director.

01:17:35.409 --> 01:17:39.350
His craft is pretty impeccable. I'm at the edge

01:17:39.350 --> 01:17:41.630
of my seat. I'm leaning in. I want to really

01:17:41.630 --> 01:17:48.149
soak in the experience. But there wasn't really,

01:17:48.250 --> 01:17:49.890
I don't think there's a single line of dialogue

01:17:49.890 --> 01:17:51.890
that's memorable in any single one of his movies

01:17:51.890 --> 01:17:56.689
that I can think of. And like, he's not really

01:17:56.689 --> 01:17:59.890
someone that I think where his like writing is

01:17:59.890 --> 01:18:04.130
really what's shining. Like the writing in dialogue

01:18:04.130 --> 01:18:07.489
or conversations in a way that Tarantino's dialogue

01:18:07.489 --> 01:18:10.850
really like gets you giddy and excited. I mean,

01:18:10.850 --> 01:18:12.569
all of the things that you're talking about are

01:18:12.569 --> 01:18:17.710
like basically big or, like not naturalistic

01:18:17.710 --> 01:18:22.090
or whatnot. Like, I mean, you're talking about

01:18:22.090 --> 01:18:24.970
like acting with a capital A or something or

01:18:24.970 --> 01:18:28.590
like, and yeah, Tarantino dialogue. Yeah, nobody

01:18:28.590 --> 01:18:32.090
ever talks, it's like Kevin Smith dialogue or

01:18:32.090 --> 01:18:33.949
something. It's like, it's not, yeah, it's a

01:18:33.949 --> 01:18:38.289
non -naturalistic, it's an overly stylized idea

01:18:38.289 --> 01:18:41.449
of, and yeah, I guess like performances in this

01:18:41.449 --> 01:18:44.170
movie are. I mean, I would still say these are

01:18:44.170 --> 01:18:48.489
pretty cartoony performances compared maybe only,

01:18:48.729 --> 01:18:51.390
like, they're maybe less cartoony than one battle

01:18:51.390 --> 01:18:54.189
after another, but they're still, like, very

01:18:54.189 --> 01:18:57.390
cartoony compared to drama. You know what I mean?

01:18:57.810 --> 01:18:59.649
Just, like, think of Joaquin Phoenix as being,

01:18:59.689 --> 01:19:01.470
like, that guy's got it on his chin and stuff

01:19:01.470 --> 01:19:05.350
and them dealing with the crime scene. No, no,

01:19:05.350 --> 01:19:08.510
no. To me, it feels like a more macro movie.

01:19:09.149 --> 01:19:12.550
I agree. Not as interested in sinking his teeth

01:19:12.550 --> 01:19:15.029
into the, like, the characterizations and, like,

01:19:15.029 --> 01:19:17.850
lives and inner struggles of these characters.

01:19:17.850 --> 01:19:20.109
I think there's a certain banality to the inner

01:19:20.109 --> 01:19:22.470
lives of these characters because it is American.

01:19:22.470 --> 01:19:26.189
And their inner lives are hinted at a little

01:19:26.189 --> 01:19:28.390
bit, too, or whatever. You can, like, extrapolate.

01:19:28.630 --> 01:19:31.909
Like, you can extrapolate Joe Cross's relationship

01:19:31.909 --> 01:19:36.850
to his wife's father. Right. Who, I guess, like...

01:19:37.199 --> 01:19:39.720
you know there's like a one -off line about how

01:19:39.720 --> 01:19:42.079
who knows whether or not he could have been saved

01:19:42.079 --> 01:19:45.399
and joe was like i know and so clearly there's

01:19:45.399 --> 01:19:47.539
like a tension between them like my husband's

01:19:47.539 --> 01:19:49.779
dead because of you well yeah he said that like

01:19:49.779 --> 01:19:52.100
he was there when he died or whatever and then

01:19:52.100 --> 01:19:54.880
yeah the mom's like yeah and who knows if he

01:19:54.880 --> 01:19:56.680
could have been saved he's like yeah i know i

01:19:56.680 --> 01:19:59.859
was there he couldn't like it's yeah fuck you

01:19:59.859 --> 01:20:04.140
that's very rude yeah but i also wouldn't be

01:20:04.140 --> 01:20:06.789
surprised If, like, there was something he could

01:20:06.789 --> 01:20:08.489
do and he wasn't smart enough to figure out what

01:20:08.489 --> 01:20:11.050
to do or whatever, he's Joe Cross. He's like,

01:20:11.130 --> 01:20:13.909
I don't know. Right, right. He doesn't inspire

01:20:13.909 --> 01:20:16.890
a lot of confidence with anything that's actually

01:20:16.890 --> 01:20:20.909
very big or difficult to deal with. I mean, dude,

01:20:20.989 --> 01:20:23.390
like, the problem with that town's police is

01:20:23.390 --> 01:20:26.510
not that they're, like, violent. That's why,

01:20:26.529 --> 01:20:28.189
like, the George Floyd thing has nothing to do

01:20:28.189 --> 01:20:31.569
with them. He's actually indifferent. he's indifferent

01:20:31.569 --> 01:20:33.270
like when he shows up at the bar he doesn't even

01:20:33.270 --> 01:20:35.229
want to fucking arrest the vagrant who's like

01:20:35.229 --> 01:20:37.090
banging on the door they had to lock the door

01:20:37.090 --> 01:20:41.470
like it's just he just seems like he doesn't

01:20:41.470 --> 01:20:43.890
give a fucking shit about the thing he claims

01:20:43.890 --> 01:20:46.170
to give a fucking shit about that's all just

01:20:46.170 --> 01:20:50.029
a pretense for just like this baggage that comes

01:20:50.029 --> 01:20:52.289
from like any like he's like the cops in the

01:20:52.289 --> 01:20:56.430
wire like he's not he's not he's living a life

01:20:56.430 --> 01:21:00.100
and then his job is being a cop like like it's

01:21:00.100 --> 01:21:03.779
not what he wants is to like fix things with

01:21:03.779 --> 01:21:07.640
his wife and have a kid and whatever like i also

01:21:07.640 --> 01:21:12.260
think he like wants to annoy ted yeah in that

01:21:12.260 --> 01:21:14.960
moment and so like his priority is not to do

01:21:14.960 --> 01:21:18.420
his job yeah his priority is not to do his job

01:21:18.420 --> 01:21:21.840
there's already like a baggage or weird like

01:21:21.840 --> 01:21:24.439
thing that's keeping him from being responsible

01:21:24.439 --> 01:21:27.409
and doing his job right he's like being vindictive,

01:21:27.409 --> 01:21:31.069
just not taking care of this issue to upset the

01:21:31.069 --> 01:21:35.489
mayor and being, like, obstinate about this mask

01:21:35.489 --> 01:21:38.409
stuff probably because of the mayor. You know,

01:21:38.449 --> 01:21:41.869
like, he doesn't seem interested in conspiracy

01:21:41.869 --> 01:21:43.529
theory stuff. He's not interested in any of the

01:21:43.529 --> 01:21:45.989
stuff that his wife or mother -in -law is saying.

01:21:46.510 --> 01:21:49.710
Right. You know? He's not an ideologue. He's

01:21:49.710 --> 01:21:53.750
banal. Right. He's just like... All this stuff

01:21:53.750 --> 01:21:57.390
as a pretense for just like... To take the side

01:21:57.390 --> 01:22:00.350
that he's on. Yeah. Because against the existing

01:22:00.350 --> 01:22:04.449
power structure. Just like classic conservative.

01:22:05.489 --> 01:22:08.210
Yeah. Just like, don't tread on me. Fuck the

01:22:08.210 --> 01:22:10.550
government. I don't work for the government.

01:22:10.670 --> 01:22:14.829
I work for the people. That kind of stuff. Yeah.

01:22:15.390 --> 01:22:18.029
But, I mean, if Joe Cross, that idiot, was in

01:22:18.029 --> 01:22:21.270
charge... He probably wouldn't be playing ball

01:22:21.270 --> 01:22:24.289
with the tech lords the way that Ted Garcia is

01:22:24.289 --> 01:22:28.170
the, you know, maybe slightly smarter conniving

01:22:28.170 --> 01:22:31.630
left winger. Yeah. Joaquin Phoenix would probably

01:22:31.630 --> 01:22:35.130
go on to Facebook and be like, well, they're

01:22:35.130 --> 01:22:37.470
trying to bring this whole thing in here and

01:22:37.470 --> 01:22:39.789
do this to us. And this is our town and it's

01:22:39.789 --> 01:22:42.609
not fair. And I like it when a man could go to

01:22:42.609 --> 01:22:44.890
work and do a thing. And Ted Garcia is going

01:22:44.890 --> 01:22:46.989
to go on and be like, dude, this is woke. This

01:22:46.989 --> 01:22:50.390
is going to get fucking. Lots of black lesbians

01:22:50.390 --> 01:22:56.310
reparations or something. I think one of those

01:22:56.310 --> 01:22:59.289
is worse than the other, but that's outside of

01:22:59.289 --> 01:23:00.829
the movie. I think that he's coming down on both

01:23:00.829 --> 01:23:02.850
sides just as hard. I think Joe is out of his

01:23:02.850 --> 01:23:04.850
depth, though, because I think to be a mayor,

01:23:05.109 --> 01:23:09.189
you do have to just be Ted. Of course. Actually

01:23:09.189 --> 01:23:12.350
understanding the reality of capitalism and economies

01:23:12.350 --> 01:23:15.590
and money and all this stuff means you end up

01:23:15.590 --> 01:23:17.770
doing what Ted does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You sell

01:23:17.770 --> 01:23:20.449
your soul. Obviously. I think if Joe was mayor,

01:23:20.569 --> 01:23:23.670
he'd either end up doing that stuff because he

01:23:23.670 --> 01:23:27.149
realizes he has to. Probably. Or he would fight

01:23:27.149 --> 01:23:28.869
against it and then they'd send people to kill

01:23:28.869 --> 01:23:32.010
him. Or something. They're always going to get

01:23:32.010 --> 01:23:33.510
their way. The data center is always going to

01:23:33.510 --> 01:23:39.170
get built. That's kind of the point. There's

01:23:39.170 --> 01:23:42.010
no way to fight against it. They've controlled

01:23:42.010 --> 01:23:45.729
both sides of the thing. You get one side worked

01:23:45.729 --> 01:23:47.470
up, you get the other side worked up. Yeah, it's

01:23:47.470 --> 01:23:52.170
a tactic. Divide and conquer. Same as it ever

01:23:52.170 --> 01:23:57.630
was. It's actually a very old story. Which, you

01:23:57.630 --> 01:24:00.289
want to get to one battle after another? Yeah,

01:24:00.310 --> 01:24:15.020
yeah, yeah. Totally. One thing I thought was

01:24:15.020 --> 01:24:18.340
very tonally different about this one is that

01:24:18.340 --> 01:24:22.479
it doesn't seem as cynical and bleak, even though

01:24:22.479 --> 01:24:26.539
there's aspects to that there. I think one battle

01:24:26.539 --> 01:24:29.840
after another's choice to focus more on personal

01:24:29.840 --> 01:24:34.699
relationships and the more intimate parts of

01:24:34.699 --> 01:24:38.420
these characters' lives instead of a more macro

01:24:38.420 --> 01:24:42.979
view of the time. makes it a very different movie

01:24:42.979 --> 01:24:46.800
um that's kind of why like even before seeing

01:24:46.800 --> 01:24:49.380
eddington i like had an expectation that it was

01:24:49.380 --> 01:24:53.159
going to be very much about 2020 it'd be 2020

01:24:53.159 --> 01:24:56.100
the movie and it exceeded those expectations

01:24:56.100 --> 01:24:59.420
it was like 2020 the movie it was like 2020 to

01:24:59.420 --> 01:25:04.319
2025 the movie right basically and hits all those

01:25:04.319 --> 01:25:07.420
notes is really on that subject whereas i kind

01:25:07.420 --> 01:25:10.609
of feel like one battle after another like It's

01:25:10.609 --> 01:25:15.789
not really about the time as much as it is these

01:25:15.789 --> 01:25:19.630
characters and this archetypal struggle that

01:25:19.630 --> 01:25:23.989
you can apply to the time at large. Right. But

01:25:23.989 --> 01:25:26.350
I think it's almost like coming from the opposite

01:25:26.350 --> 01:25:29.689
direction that like Eddington is something that's

01:25:29.689 --> 01:25:32.189
looking at a macro and then that tells you something

01:25:32.189 --> 01:25:34.329
about the individuals involved and what they're

01:25:34.329 --> 01:25:37.420
reckoning with. Whereas, like, One Battle After

01:25:37.420 --> 01:25:38.659
Another is telling you about these individuals

01:25:38.659 --> 01:25:41.100
and what they're reckoning with and then how

01:25:41.100 --> 01:25:44.199
that applies to the culture. How it exists within

01:25:44.199 --> 01:25:48.579
the macro. Yeah. And I think overall, One Battle

01:25:48.579 --> 01:25:50.939
After Another has a more positive ending. You

01:25:50.939 --> 01:25:53.739
know, it just has one of those more, like, life

01:25:53.739 --> 01:25:57.640
-goes -on endings. Semi -sweet, you know? Whereas

01:25:57.640 --> 01:26:00.140
Ari Aster is, like, you know, four for four.

01:26:00.739 --> 01:26:03.220
Like, the darkness will win, you will be fucked,

01:26:03.359 --> 01:26:07.779
it will be over. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. I would agree.

01:26:07.960 --> 01:26:11.359
Ari Aster, very bleak. Very bleak, man. Very

01:26:11.359 --> 01:26:14.020
bleak. Paul Thomas Anderson, I would say something

01:26:14.020 --> 01:26:18.840
is, there is something, yeah, there is something

01:26:18.840 --> 01:26:21.260
bright at the end of the tunnel here or something.

01:26:22.319 --> 01:26:25.819
There's, you know, I'm emotionally worked up

01:26:25.819 --> 01:26:28.380
at the end of this movie. Yeah. Yeah. And not

01:26:28.380 --> 01:26:31.119
because of the letter, but we'll get to that.

01:26:31.560 --> 01:26:36.300
No. But yeah, I think like, Yeah, I was, by the

01:26:36.300 --> 01:26:38.439
way, I was completely convinced of your, well,

01:26:38.460 --> 01:26:40.180
we'll get to it. We'll get to it. But I watched

01:26:40.180 --> 01:26:43.979
it again and you're right. We'll say that. Oh,

01:26:44.079 --> 01:26:46.439
yeah? Yeah. Well, should we get into it? I guess

01:26:46.439 --> 01:26:50.220
I wanted to just, you know, quickly just meditate

01:26:50.220 --> 01:26:52.340
a little bit more on why these movies would be

01:26:52.340 --> 01:26:55.319
compared and whatever and the differences. And

01:26:55.319 --> 01:27:00.960
I really do think, like, they are both about

01:27:00.960 --> 01:27:03.880
the same time. I really do think they're both.

01:27:04.590 --> 01:27:07.430
trying to wrestle with and tackle these times

01:27:07.430 --> 01:27:09.810
and i both i think they both go out of their

01:27:09.810 --> 01:27:14.789
way to feature a character who is not from this

01:27:14.789 --> 01:27:18.350
time who has to now reckon with this time who

01:27:18.350 --> 01:27:21.810
was trained on a different algorithm who now

01:27:21.810 --> 01:27:25.270
needs to deal with this shit that's like they

01:27:25.270 --> 01:27:27.409
don't understand and doesn't compute you know

01:27:27.409 --> 01:27:33.880
right But I think that's so much less a part

01:27:33.880 --> 01:27:35.859
of one battle after another. You know what I

01:27:35.859 --> 01:27:38.319
mean? I just kind of think that's not as much

01:27:38.319 --> 01:27:42.060
the point as it is in Eddington. Because actually,

01:27:42.199 --> 01:27:44.739
now that I'm thinking about it, I feel like I

01:27:44.739 --> 01:27:48.500
know... Eddington is a big movie of lots and

01:27:48.500 --> 01:27:50.380
lots of characters and whatnot, but I know who

01:27:50.380 --> 01:27:53.899
the main character is of Eddington. Yeah, it's

01:27:53.899 --> 01:27:57.979
Joe Cross. Completely, yeah. Yeah. But one battle

01:27:57.979 --> 01:28:01.899
after another, I don't really necessarily know

01:28:01.899 --> 01:28:04.939
who the main character of it is. And I really

01:28:04.939 --> 01:28:08.359
don't the first time through. When I'm watching

01:28:08.359 --> 01:28:10.680
the beginning, I'm not sure if Profitia is going

01:28:10.680 --> 01:28:12.439
to be the... You know what I mean? Who knows

01:28:12.439 --> 01:28:13.840
who's the main character? You don't even know

01:28:13.840 --> 01:28:16.060
if Profitia is going to come back or not. Right,

01:28:16.060 --> 01:28:19.359
right. Or is it going to be Sean Penn? Is it

01:28:19.359 --> 01:28:21.060
going to be Leonardo DiCaprio? Who's the main

01:28:21.060 --> 01:28:23.260
character of this movie? And then does it end

01:28:23.260 --> 01:28:25.600
up being Willa? Or does it end up being Leonardo

01:28:25.600 --> 01:28:29.739
DiCaprio? I think it's Willa. I think it's Willa's

01:28:29.739 --> 01:28:31.359
story. She doesn't come into the movie until

01:28:31.359 --> 01:28:37.899
like an hour in. Is it 45 minutes? Is it 45 minutes?

01:28:38.539 --> 01:28:40.340
Yeah, it's probably 45 minutes. I don't know.

01:28:40.380 --> 01:28:42.199
It's kind of an unconventional movie in the way

01:28:42.199 --> 01:28:47.180
it's told, its structure. When we're saying it's

01:28:47.180 --> 01:28:49.720
the personal to the... It's like, well, actually,

01:28:49.800 --> 01:28:54.619
this is almost a more... like a less character.

01:28:55.840 --> 01:29:00.100
I don't know. There's something, again, there's

01:29:00.100 --> 01:29:01.819
something very Paul Thomas Anderson about it.

01:29:01.840 --> 01:29:05.039
It's, it's, it's very, all his movies have that.

01:29:05.100 --> 01:29:07.199
I mean, not all of them, but many of his movies.

01:29:07.199 --> 01:29:08.819
But what I was saying about character likability

01:29:08.819 --> 01:29:13.079
and stuff is like, I think, you know, I think

01:29:13.079 --> 01:29:16.439
the performances in one battle after another

01:29:16.439 --> 01:29:20.979
are like exuberant. Like they're some of the,

01:29:21.319 --> 01:29:23.720
greatest performances I've seen in a while. I

01:29:23.720 --> 01:29:26.880
mean, I'm using hyperbole, but it's just like...

01:29:26.880 --> 01:29:29.460
Nobody gives it up like people do for Paul Thomas

01:29:29.460 --> 01:29:32.399
Anderson, man. I know, dude. Like, the fact that

01:29:32.399 --> 01:29:35.199
Sean Penn... I think Vice is the same way and

01:29:35.199 --> 01:29:37.159
doesn't get the credit. No, dude, totally, totally.

01:29:37.560 --> 01:29:39.960
There are incredible performances in all of his

01:29:39.960 --> 01:29:43.420
movies. And it's a lot of what drives the movie

01:29:43.420 --> 01:29:45.359
in a way that I don't think drives Eddington.

01:29:45.399 --> 01:29:47.260
That's the only point I was trying to make as

01:29:47.260 --> 01:29:49.380
a distinction. I still think the acting's great

01:29:49.380 --> 01:29:51.710
in Eddington. I'm not trying to say, like, it's

01:29:51.710 --> 01:29:54.949
not i get that but i would also i would say there's

01:29:54.949 --> 01:29:57.449
a really great interview with paul thomas anderson

01:29:57.449 --> 01:30:00.489
on the on the wtf podcast with mark maron and

01:30:00.489 --> 01:30:04.350
on that um mark brings up to him he's like basically

01:30:04.350 --> 01:30:06.890
like how important is the actor for you like

01:30:06.890 --> 01:30:09.590
the like the performance part of it and whatever

01:30:09.590 --> 01:30:11.789
and he's just like well that's the whole thing

01:30:11.789 --> 01:30:13.569
like what do you mean and he's like well i don't

01:30:13.569 --> 01:30:15.979
know like some directors And he's, like, obviously

01:30:15.979 --> 01:30:17.359
referencing people like Kubrick or something

01:30:17.359 --> 01:30:19.760
or whatever, where, like, the actor is more of

01:30:19.760 --> 01:30:22.399
a tool or something and stuff. And Paul Tomasini

01:30:22.399 --> 01:30:23.800
is just like, dude, I don't know. Like, when

01:30:23.800 --> 01:30:25.760
I watch a movie, I don't know what else I'm watching

01:30:25.760 --> 01:30:28.300
other than performances. Like, that's what I'm

01:30:28.300 --> 01:30:30.819
watching. Like, you know? And I think that, like...

01:30:30.819 --> 01:30:33.800
A lot of movies have forgotten that. Yeah, I

01:30:33.800 --> 01:30:35.560
mean, often when we're analyzing movies on the

01:30:35.560 --> 01:30:38.600
podcast, we're not analyzing movies that are

01:30:38.600 --> 01:30:43.890
these performance pieces as much. Like... It's

01:30:43.890 --> 01:30:45.789
more about the meta -commentary happening and

01:30:45.789 --> 01:30:48.529
characters, actors are tools and characters are

01:30:48.529 --> 01:30:50.689
representational. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that sort

01:30:50.689 --> 01:30:53.470
of stuff. But Paul Thomas Anderson really does

01:30:53.470 --> 01:30:58.310
get people to perform in a way that is beyond

01:30:58.310 --> 01:30:59.909
what other people are doing. And I think that

01:30:59.909 --> 01:31:04.229
he also, that comes from him running a very Altman

01:31:04.229 --> 01:31:06.270
-esque set or something where there's a lot of

01:31:06.270 --> 01:31:08.989
improvisation, a lot of playing around. He's

01:31:08.989 --> 01:31:12.930
a guy. that is using the process of filmmaking

01:31:12.930 --> 01:31:18.869
in a real auteur way. He's working beyond everybody

01:31:18.869 --> 01:31:21.550
else. He really is. And it's evident. I've just

01:31:21.550 --> 01:31:23.010
rewatched a bunch of his movies recently, and

01:31:23.010 --> 01:31:25.270
it's evident in every single one of these movies.

01:31:25.409 --> 01:31:29.029
He's working on another level as far as that

01:31:29.029 --> 01:31:31.890
aspect of the craft. Sure, but I think it's also

01:31:31.890 --> 01:31:34.409
evident when you listen to him talk that he's

01:31:34.409 --> 01:31:37.189
a searcher, like you said before. Exactly. Um,

01:31:37.350 --> 01:31:40.609
I think he is so much more open to collaboration.

01:31:41.409 --> 01:31:44.189
Yeah. Just ideas coming from his actors. Like

01:31:44.189 --> 01:31:46.149
he always talks about how he like never directs

01:31:46.149 --> 01:31:48.710
his actors. Performance is his whole movie and

01:31:48.710 --> 01:31:50.789
he barely has to say anything to his performers.

01:31:51.250 --> 01:31:53.090
Well, I don't know. Did you, did you listen to

01:31:53.090 --> 01:31:56.310
the, the, um, interview with Paul Thomas Anderson

01:31:56.310 --> 01:31:58.949
and Spielberg? I did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where

01:31:58.949 --> 01:32:01.210
he talks about like how basically the whole,

01:32:01.390 --> 01:32:04.010
uh, Benicio del Toro part is just like something

01:32:04.010 --> 01:32:07.189
that Benicio came up with. Yeah, exactly. What

01:32:07.189 --> 01:32:09.489
if I'm running like an underground railroad of

01:32:09.489 --> 01:32:12.109
Mexican immigrants and stuff? Like, all right,

01:32:12.109 --> 01:32:13.890
sure. Let's go with that. Like, that's a huge

01:32:13.890 --> 01:32:15.909
part of the movie. What are you talking about?

01:32:16.069 --> 01:32:19.210
It was Benicio's idea. And it's like, he's willing

01:32:19.210 --> 01:32:22.210
to do that. That's ridiculous. That's the only

01:32:22.210 --> 01:32:24.770
reason why that part of the movie takes so long

01:32:24.770 --> 01:32:26.569
is just because like, oh, he was coming up with

01:32:26.569 --> 01:32:29.149
a lot of ideas. Yeah. And they're all fun. And

01:32:29.149 --> 01:32:32.460
that's why we watch movies. You know? And then,

01:32:32.460 --> 01:32:34.260
you know, and then when he mentions the idea,

01:32:34.319 --> 01:32:37.000
even not about performance, but even about camera

01:32:37.000 --> 01:32:39.640
work, when he was saying like the entire last

01:32:39.640 --> 01:32:42.180
scene of the movie, which is so iconic and so

01:32:42.180 --> 01:32:44.479
beautifully staged, didn't have that idea until

01:32:44.479 --> 01:32:47.380
he saw the location. Right, right. Yeah. You

01:32:47.380 --> 01:32:49.699
know, it's like, oh, you see a location and then

01:32:49.699 --> 01:32:52.880
you have an idea about how you shoot it. You

01:32:52.880 --> 01:32:54.739
never would have had that idea just sitting in

01:32:54.739 --> 01:32:56.220
a room trying to write it on a computer screen.

01:32:56.659 --> 01:33:00.659
He's very open to. finding the movie as it gets

01:33:00.659 --> 01:33:02.979
made right and that's why like when he ends up

01:33:02.979 --> 01:33:04.859
talking about the movie afterwards like mark

01:33:04.859 --> 01:33:08.199
maron like accused him of talking about the movie

01:33:08.199 --> 01:33:10.699
like he had nothing to do with it right he's

01:33:10.699 --> 01:33:13.239
not a director who's like this is what i wanted

01:33:13.239 --> 01:33:15.880
to do and i just wanted to convey this kind of

01:33:15.880 --> 01:33:18.260
idea there's no pretension to paul thomas anderson

01:33:18.260 --> 01:33:21.159
yeah it is so i don't know i feel like i'm just

01:33:21.159 --> 01:33:22.840
saying what i've heard other people say about

01:33:22.840 --> 01:33:25.659
it he's like yeah yeah yeah it's about family

01:33:25.659 --> 01:33:28.170
and i haven't i haven't I haven't heard any interviews

01:33:28.170 --> 01:33:30.109
with Ari Aster, really, so I don't really know

01:33:30.109 --> 01:33:32.529
what his personality is like. I feel like I've

01:33:32.529 --> 01:33:34.369
seen him talk once before, and he seems like

01:33:34.369 --> 01:33:38.010
a pretty quiet, introverted dude in the way that

01:33:38.010 --> 01:33:39.949
Paul Thomas Anderson is. He's the type of guy

01:33:39.949 --> 01:33:42.489
who's fearless enough to do acid with Nathan

01:33:42.489 --> 01:33:45.630
Fielder. Well, there's that. There is totally

01:33:45.630 --> 01:33:48.409
that. If that's a person that exists, I know

01:33:48.409 --> 01:33:52.609
enough about him there to know something about

01:33:52.609 --> 01:33:58.869
him now. Ari Aster might be a little smarter

01:33:58.869 --> 01:34:01.310
than Paul Thomas Anderson, but Ari Aster thinks

01:34:01.310 --> 01:34:04.050
too hard and then ends up making a movie that

01:34:04.050 --> 01:34:06.829
feels more simple than Paul Thomas Anderson,

01:34:06.989 --> 01:34:09.069
who doesn't think as hard or something. I don't

01:34:09.069 --> 01:34:12.090
know. Maybe. I don't know if there's a reason

01:34:12.090 --> 01:34:14.329
to compare their intelligences, but I would say

01:34:14.329 --> 01:34:17.869
that maybe Paul Thomas Anderson comes to it through

01:34:17.869 --> 01:34:20.229
feeling in a way that Ari Aster comes to it through

01:34:20.229 --> 01:34:25.029
intellect. Sure, sure. I'm not saying one's smarter

01:34:25.029 --> 01:34:28.630
than stupid even. I'm just saying the way Paul

01:34:28.630 --> 01:34:32.029
Thomas Anderson's work comes off as someone who

01:34:32.029 --> 01:34:37.449
is more loose, flexible, allowing things to happen,

01:34:37.770 --> 01:34:41.210
allowing for performance, allowing for indulgences.

01:34:42.210 --> 01:34:46.470
Whereas Ari Aster's movie feels controlled, contrived,

01:34:46.510 --> 01:34:50.869
tight. Everything is like a very specific detail

01:34:50.869 --> 01:34:55.819
that feels like it came from him. And that's

01:34:55.819 --> 01:34:59.359
not a problem. It's just like, for some reason...

01:34:59.359 --> 01:35:02.079
When Kubrick does it, it's something... Many

01:35:02.079 --> 01:35:06.760
great auteurs have that going on. Sure. But I

01:35:06.760 --> 01:35:08.619
think even though Eddington feels like a movie

01:35:08.619 --> 01:35:12.060
that's about more, it ends up feeling more simple

01:35:12.060 --> 01:35:14.960
than One Battle After Another for some reason.

01:35:15.220 --> 01:35:17.539
I don't know why, but to me, One Battle After

01:35:17.539 --> 01:35:19.340
Another still has more unanswered questions.

01:35:19.779 --> 01:35:23.760
Yes. More... More that is just like enigmatic

01:35:23.760 --> 01:35:28.699
and stewing underneath that like is obvious maybe

01:35:28.699 --> 01:35:31.079
on a first viewing. Not figured out. Yeah, exactly.

01:35:31.500 --> 01:35:34.579
Some irony. Messy. Some weird contradictions.

01:35:34.579 --> 01:35:38.539
It's messy, yeah. I mean, Eddington's messy too.

01:35:39.000 --> 01:35:42.300
Sure, Eddington's messy, but you know what I

01:35:42.300 --> 01:35:48.039
mean when I say all this. But I guess, yeah,

01:35:48.180 --> 01:35:51.180
do you want to get into some of the... The things,

01:35:51.260 --> 01:35:54.079
because like... Yeah, I mean, I thought, I think

01:35:54.079 --> 01:35:56.079
one of the things that I thought was interesting

01:35:56.079 --> 01:35:59.819
was, and part of the reason I thought it would

01:35:59.819 --> 01:36:04.279
be interesting to pair these movies is kind of

01:36:04.279 --> 01:36:08.260
the... We're having this conversation on stolen

01:36:08.260 --> 01:36:11.920
land, screaming stuff that was going on in Eddington.

01:36:11.939 --> 01:36:15.779
That archetype of that girl with her mask falling

01:36:15.779 --> 01:36:18.399
down, screaming at her black boyfriend that he's

01:36:18.399 --> 01:36:25.380
not racially woke enough or whatever. And that

01:36:25.380 --> 01:36:27.500
we're having this conversation on stolen land

01:36:27.500 --> 01:36:31.159
and that sort of thing. That seemed to me to

01:36:31.159 --> 01:36:35.239
be an encapsulation of an archetype. And similarly,

01:36:35.340 --> 01:36:38.720
I thought that, you know, Profitia Beverly Hills

01:36:38.720 --> 01:36:43.460
saying, you know, free bodies, free choices and

01:36:43.460 --> 01:36:48.779
freedom from fucking fear. And and Bob's, you

01:36:48.779 --> 01:36:54.899
know, fuck the police, all cops or whatever he

01:36:54.899 --> 01:36:58.140
says, like that sort of stuff was also, you know,

01:36:58.140 --> 01:37:02.180
a similar archetype. And I think that that that

01:37:02.180 --> 01:37:04.989
was something that I didn't. I got into kind

01:37:04.989 --> 01:37:10.829
of an argument with actually about this a little

01:37:10.829 --> 01:37:14.069
bit. And I thought that both of these movies

01:37:14.069 --> 01:37:16.630
are movies that are choosing to be zeitgeist

01:37:16.630 --> 01:37:19.029
movies about today. I mean, the thing that I

01:37:19.029 --> 01:37:20.529
think is really interesting about One Battle

01:37:20.529 --> 01:37:23.689
After Another is that it like very clearly is

01:37:23.689 --> 01:37:28.069
based on like a 60s to 80s. like transition paradigm

01:37:28.069 --> 01:37:30.970
where you've got like the weather underground

01:37:30.970 --> 01:37:33.630
and there are terrorists in the, in the, you

01:37:33.630 --> 01:37:35.670
know, early seventies and whatnot, and they have

01:37:35.670 --> 01:37:38.210
to go underground and stuff. And then you'd think

01:37:38.210 --> 01:37:42.090
maybe, you know, how many years later, 16 years

01:37:42.090 --> 01:37:47.710
later, 15, 15, 16, 15 years later, they're trying

01:37:47.710 --> 01:37:51.090
to, you know, put the pieces back together and

01:37:51.090 --> 01:37:52.930
looking back on what happened to the revolution

01:37:52.930 --> 01:37:55.109
now that we're living in, you know, Reagan's

01:37:55.109 --> 01:37:59.069
eighties and, you know, the stock market's taking

01:37:59.069 --> 01:38:01.310
over and the revolution is dead and blah, blah,

01:38:01.390 --> 01:38:05.670
blah. And that's been kind of applied to a time

01:38:05.670 --> 01:38:09.850
that, that does not exist at all. Like that we're

01:38:09.850 --> 01:38:15.170
talking about 2025 and what, like 2010, 20, like,

01:38:15.250 --> 01:38:19.180
are we talking about Are we talking about Occupy

01:38:19.180 --> 01:38:23.140
Wall Street time period is when this terrorist

01:38:23.140 --> 01:38:28.000
group, the French 75, actually was in their heyday?

01:38:28.020 --> 01:38:31.399
What is the heyday of them? And what actually

01:38:31.399 --> 01:38:34.779
is that kind of archetype? And to me, I think

01:38:34.779 --> 01:38:38.060
that it's very clear that these are parodic,

01:38:38.060 --> 01:38:43.970
over -the -top caricatures. and perfidia is a

01:38:43.970 --> 01:38:47.470
like ridiculous i mean recently i was watching

01:38:47.470 --> 01:38:50.350
um drawn together do you remember that show from

01:38:50.350 --> 01:38:54.090
like the early 2000s and fucking um i've never

01:38:54.090 --> 01:38:56.069
i've never watched it but i'm aware of it central

01:38:56.069 --> 01:38:58.430
it's just like you've got all of these different

01:38:58.430 --> 01:39:00.890
cartoon archetypes that are just like racist

01:39:00.890 --> 01:39:02.510
basically you've got like you know you've got

01:39:02.510 --> 01:39:04.930
the like japanese hello kitty girl and you've

01:39:04.930 --> 01:39:06.850
got the like whatever and then they've got a

01:39:06.850 --> 01:39:09.920
black girl who's chocolate love or something

01:39:09.920 --> 01:39:12.100
like you know what i mean and she just like wears

01:39:12.100 --> 01:39:15.140
like it's just kind of like perfidious beverly

01:39:15.140 --> 01:39:18.560
hills this character like felt to me like uh

01:39:18.560 --> 01:39:21.420
just like okay this is chocolate love right and

01:39:21.420 --> 01:39:24.420
again this is like a weird 70s archetype to be

01:39:24.420 --> 01:39:28.539
like applying to today and stuff but i also think

01:39:28.539 --> 01:39:31.619
that it is a powerful archetype today and i think

01:39:31.619 --> 01:39:34.159
the jungle pussy is like the real name of the

01:39:34.159 --> 01:39:36.640
real girl who played jungle pussy and stuff and

01:39:36.640 --> 01:39:40.279
they're they are kind of tapping into an idea

01:39:40.279 --> 01:39:44.119
of wokeness i think that is modern and they're

01:39:44.119 --> 01:39:48.100
taking kind of this this 70s sort of blaxploitation

01:39:48.100 --> 01:39:53.180
um weather underground like this this whole sort

01:39:53.180 --> 01:39:56.899
of black panther aesthetic thing and they're

01:39:56.899 --> 01:40:00.720
applying it to an era where that concept is ridiculous

01:40:00.720 --> 01:40:04.960
and hilarious on the face of it because what

01:40:04.960 --> 01:40:06.680
is it they're fighting for they're fighting for

01:40:06.680 --> 01:40:10.020
free bodies free choices freedom from fear and

01:40:10.020 --> 01:40:14.699
it's like they're fighting for vague I don't

01:40:14.699 --> 01:40:16.880
know. You know what I mean? No, sure, sure. What

01:40:16.880 --> 01:40:19.340
is it that these characters kind of are and are

01:40:19.340 --> 01:40:21.800
talking about? And what is the revolution that

01:40:21.800 --> 01:40:24.220
this is? It is a comedy, too. Like you said,

01:40:24.260 --> 01:40:26.199
it is just funny to have a character named Jungle

01:40:26.199 --> 01:40:29.420
Pussy and all this stuff. Yeah, but that's also

01:40:29.420 --> 01:40:31.420
her stage name, the girl who plays Jungle Pussy.

01:40:32.579 --> 01:40:35.659
No, sure, sure. Teyana Taylor has a thing that's

01:40:35.659 --> 01:40:37.979
this pussy don't pop for you. Steven J. Lockjaw

01:40:37.979 --> 01:40:41.300
is also a goofy Pinchonian kind of name, you

01:40:41.300 --> 01:40:44.470
know? Exactly. And none of these things come

01:40:44.470 --> 01:40:47.010
from the book. Lockjaw didn't exist in the book.

01:40:47.210 --> 01:40:49.829
The character that Profitia is in the book isn't

01:40:49.829 --> 01:40:52.270
black. None of this stuff comes from the book.

01:40:52.890 --> 01:40:54.729
Because for those who don't know, this is loosely

01:40:54.729 --> 01:40:57.750
based on Vineland, but I would say he's just

01:40:57.750 --> 01:41:02.590
giving Vineland and Pynchon credit for just what

01:41:02.590 --> 01:41:06.130
sparked this idea. Kind of like he gave Upton

01:41:06.130 --> 01:41:08.130
Sinclair's oil credit for There Will Be Blood

01:41:08.130 --> 01:41:12.109
or whatever. Right, right. Exactly. He's being

01:41:12.109 --> 01:41:14.590
fair about where the ideas are coming from, but

01:41:14.590 --> 01:41:17.630
this movie is not an adaptation of Vineland one

01:41:17.630 --> 01:41:20.430
-to -one at all. In fact, it's hard to imagine

01:41:20.430 --> 01:41:22.930
that there's that much that applies when so much

01:41:22.930 --> 01:41:26.590
of this is based on this racial aspect that's

01:41:26.590 --> 01:41:28.810
not a part of the book at all, the terrorist

01:41:28.810 --> 01:41:30.689
group that's not a part of the book at all, characters

01:41:30.689 --> 01:41:32.670
like Lockjaw who are not in the book at all.

01:41:32.689 --> 01:41:34.649
I haven't read the book, but I've been told that

01:41:34.649 --> 01:41:39.310
a lot of these things are not connected. Maybe

01:41:39.310 --> 01:41:42.510
Leonardo DiCaprio's character of Bob and, you

01:41:42.510 --> 01:41:44.449
know, his daughter Willa, I guess, come from

01:41:44.449 --> 01:41:47.390
the book and them hiding out in the woods. Well,

01:41:48.390 --> 01:41:49.989
I think what you said about this feeling something

01:41:49.989 --> 01:41:52.770
more like the 70s, 80s, like, I mean, you know.

01:41:53.010 --> 01:41:55.649
That's got to come from the book, right? Because

01:41:55.649 --> 01:41:57.449
that is the paradigm that you were talking about

01:41:57.449 --> 01:42:01.130
in the book, right? I haven't read Violin, but

01:42:01.130 --> 01:42:03.310
what Paul Thomas Anderson said that he got from

01:42:03.310 --> 01:42:06.659
the book was specifically. this dynamic of an

01:42:06.659 --> 01:42:09.500
old revolutionary who was living in the woods

01:42:09.500 --> 01:42:12.960
with his daughter right and then the past comes

01:42:12.960 --> 01:42:15.100
back to haunt them i think or maybe not maybe

01:42:15.100 --> 01:42:16.600
that doesn't even happen because there's no lockjaw

01:42:16.600 --> 01:42:19.119
but i think it was that mainly that image which

01:42:19.119 --> 01:42:22.319
is also like the way hana starts and whatever

01:42:22.319 --> 01:42:26.939
and like right right leave no trace yeah yeah

01:42:26.939 --> 01:42:30.920
there's the precedent for like the old revolutionary

01:42:30.920 --> 01:42:33.500
or you know the person who used to fight battles

01:42:33.500 --> 01:42:36.340
like who had to become a recluse and run away

01:42:36.340 --> 01:42:39.819
from it all and then, like, train his child to

01:42:39.819 --> 01:42:42.800
become the person he passes the torch to when

01:42:42.800 --> 01:42:45.520
the past comes back to haunt them. Pretty, like,

01:42:45.560 --> 01:42:48.520
standard kind of narrative that has precedence,

01:42:48.539 --> 01:42:52.760
you know? But, yeah, I think, like, especially

01:42:52.760 --> 01:42:56.800
in comparison to Edison, like, it's very clear

01:42:56.800 --> 01:43:00.739
that the guy who made one battle after another

01:43:00.739 --> 01:43:05.479
is... a romantic Gen Xer, whereas, like, the

01:43:05.479 --> 01:43:08.739
guy who made Eddington is a cynical millennial.

01:43:09.420 --> 01:43:14.319
I think the Gen Xers are hardly ever romantic

01:43:14.319 --> 01:43:18.520
purely, though, even as a generation. Yeah, but

01:43:18.520 --> 01:43:22.300
he's an old Gen Xer, and he has, like, a mixed

01:43:22.300 --> 01:43:24.420
-race child. There's also, like, obviously very

01:43:24.420 --> 01:43:27.800
personal things in this movie for him. Like,

01:43:27.899 --> 01:43:31.359
he is Bob. He's, like, the white guy who is,

01:43:31.380 --> 01:43:33.920
like, Who's like, this is not his battle, but

01:43:33.920 --> 01:43:35.439
he's close to it because he loves people. Yeah,

01:43:35.439 --> 01:43:37.680
I mean, I feel this to a certain degree. But

01:43:37.680 --> 01:43:42.340
I also don't think that Perfidia Beverly Hills

01:43:42.340 --> 01:43:48.380
is the same as a girl who is the funniest person

01:43:48.380 --> 01:43:52.899
on Saturday Night Live in 20 years. Maya Rudolph

01:43:52.899 --> 01:43:57.180
is not just a black girl who is just like the...

01:43:57.180 --> 01:44:02.640
You know what I mean? Perfidia is a... caricature

01:44:02.640 --> 01:44:07.760
of black revolutionary so it is like she's a

01:44:07.760 --> 01:44:09.960
she's a character that paul thomas anderson's

01:44:09.960 --> 01:44:12.659
wife might play but he's not saying like this

01:44:12.659 --> 01:44:16.140
is what black women are and like i like bob am

01:44:16.140 --> 01:44:19.800
into this because i also have a mixed race kid

01:44:19.800 --> 01:44:22.180
like i understand like i i get that the mixed

01:44:22.180 --> 01:44:25.859
race kid thing has obviously like like real stuff.

01:44:26.079 --> 01:44:28.039
And him saying, I don't know how to do her hair

01:44:28.039 --> 01:44:31.180
and stuff is like so sweet and like learned.

01:44:31.279 --> 01:44:33.140
I know. I just feel like, I feel like that's

01:44:33.140 --> 01:44:35.220
a conversation he's had or like, that's something

01:44:35.220 --> 01:44:36.979
like Maya does her hair. I don't know how to

01:44:36.979 --> 01:44:39.680
do it. Yeah. I get like some of that stuff, but

01:44:39.680 --> 01:44:43.279
I also think that like the idea that like he

01:44:43.279 --> 01:44:47.720
would not be commenting on. like i don't know

01:44:47.720 --> 01:44:51.319
that like to me when i saw jungle pussy taking

01:44:51.319 --> 01:44:53.539
over the bank and it's like this is what revolution

01:44:53.539 --> 01:44:57.140
looks like i'm jungle pussy okay it's like and

01:44:57.140 --> 01:44:58.720
she's just going up there like it's a drag show

01:44:58.720 --> 01:45:01.460
like playing this like what character of wokeness

01:45:01.460 --> 01:45:04.119
that's just like what the fuck are we doing like

01:45:04.119 --> 01:45:06.640
this is a joke we're laughing at this right like

01:45:06.640 --> 01:45:09.340
it is ridiculous to talk like that and stuff

01:45:09.340 --> 01:45:11.869
right like this is funny Like, I don't think

01:45:11.869 --> 01:45:14.170
that just because he is married to Maya Rudolph

01:45:14.170 --> 01:45:16.229
means that he can't see the difference between

01:45:16.229 --> 01:45:18.369
Maya Rudolph and that. You know what I mean?

01:45:19.229 --> 01:45:21.810
I never said that, man. No, I know. This is a

01:45:21.810 --> 01:45:23.390
conversation I had. The only point I was trying

01:45:23.390 --> 01:45:25.930
to make is like, oh, this is the conversation

01:45:25.930 --> 01:45:28.029
you have. Yeah, we got into an argument where

01:45:28.029 --> 01:45:30.310
he's like, no, he's obviously, and it's like,

01:45:30.350 --> 01:45:33.109
no, no, because he's in a relationship with a

01:45:33.109 --> 01:45:35.189
real black woman, that's the type of person who

01:45:35.189 --> 01:45:36.869
knows the difference between black women and

01:45:36.869 --> 01:45:39.470
what perfidia is. It's only white liberals who

01:45:39.470 --> 01:45:41.310
don't know the difference between perfidia and

01:45:41.310 --> 01:45:44.090
all black women. You know what I mean? It's like,

01:45:44.109 --> 01:45:46.729
no, no, this is a depiction of a real black woman.

01:45:46.869 --> 01:45:48.970
It's like, no, this is a depiction of a crazy

01:45:48.970 --> 01:45:52.949
sociopath that happens to have a black aesthetic

01:45:52.949 --> 01:45:56.470
that you as a woke person find attractive. That

01:45:56.470 --> 01:46:00.529
is not the same. You know what I mean? Well,

01:46:00.550 --> 01:46:06.409
maybe we would have a disagreement on how honest

01:46:06.409 --> 01:46:13.630
Profitia is as a character. But overall, I think

01:46:13.630 --> 01:46:16.350
all the characters in this movie feel very real.

01:46:16.489 --> 01:46:19.710
I understand that they're all archetypal cartoons,

01:46:19.869 --> 01:46:22.189
just like in Eddington. But for some reason,

01:46:22.229 --> 01:46:24.229
these characters feel more real to me. They feel

01:46:24.229 --> 01:46:30.460
more dynamic. They feel more alive. And I just

01:46:30.460 --> 01:46:32.619
feel like a lot of that's probably informed by

01:46:32.619 --> 01:46:35.560
real -life honest stuff. I agree completely.

01:46:35.659 --> 01:46:37.300
And I think that everybody's bringing as much

01:46:37.300 --> 01:46:40.039
honesty as they can. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But,

01:46:40.100 --> 01:46:41.819
yeah, everything is still kind of an archetype.

01:46:41.819 --> 01:46:45.899
It's kind of a cartoony thing. But I think there

01:46:45.899 --> 01:46:49.500
is a lot of truth. Yeah, like I think, yeah,

01:46:49.539 --> 01:46:52.819
Perfidia is selfish. She is a sociopath. But

01:46:52.819 --> 01:46:56.189
I think... it is a representation of the most

01:46:56.189 --> 01:47:02.010
kind of insane and extreme pathology that can

01:47:02.010 --> 01:47:05.890
come out of the situation that a black woman

01:47:05.890 --> 01:47:08.590
is in, you know? Like, I just think there are

01:47:08.590 --> 01:47:14.029
things about black women that like, if you know,

01:47:14.090 --> 01:47:18.149
inform the character a little better. Like, I

01:47:18.149 --> 01:47:20.270
agree. I think the first time I saw this movie,

01:47:20.350 --> 01:47:24.659
I like hated perfidia. And I was like, kind of

01:47:24.659 --> 01:47:29.260
just like, this character, like, is almost just

01:47:29.260 --> 01:47:34.920
so one -dimensionally, obnoxiously self -centered.

01:47:35.640 --> 01:47:39.260
And just, I don't know, yeah, sociopathic and

01:47:39.260 --> 01:47:43.960
whatever. There's nothing that really puts you

01:47:43.960 --> 01:47:46.239
against a character more than someone who abandons

01:47:46.239 --> 01:47:51.610
their child. Just so that they can, like... free

01:47:51.610 --> 01:47:55.869
immigrants from like detainment camps or whatever

01:47:55.869 --> 01:47:58.270
you know or blow up banks or whatever like you're

01:47:58.270 --> 01:48:03.189
gonna abandon your child um and she's yeah she's

01:48:03.189 --> 01:48:04.750
annoying every time she talks you're just like

01:48:04.750 --> 01:48:07.289
oh my god this fucking bitch is just fronting

01:48:07.289 --> 01:48:09.529
all the time but like the second the second time

01:48:09.529 --> 01:48:13.010
i saw it i really did like feel like something

01:48:13.010 --> 01:48:16.930
showed through the cracks more that made me feel

01:48:16.930 --> 01:48:20.300
like she was so much more real Then I gave her

01:48:20.300 --> 01:48:22.199
credit for it and that she was interesting and

01:48:22.199 --> 01:48:25.380
layered and whatever. And I, I don't know. I

01:48:25.380 --> 01:48:29.539
just think like there probably isn't like a bigger

01:48:29.539 --> 01:48:33.600
minority than the black woman in America, especially

01:48:33.600 --> 01:48:36.659
one that's like a civil rights activist who wants

01:48:36.659 --> 01:48:42.020
to like protect the rights of minorities and

01:48:42.020 --> 01:48:46.090
people who are exploited and whatever. And they

01:48:46.090 --> 01:48:48.890
might be very, very familiar and close to a life

01:48:48.890 --> 01:48:51.090
of exploitation and not really having many resources.

01:48:51.550 --> 01:48:54.970
And it's a stereotype, but it's commonly known

01:48:54.970 --> 01:48:57.949
that many black households are matriarchal. Black

01:48:57.949 --> 01:49:02.869
women end up dominating the homes and they develop

01:49:02.869 --> 01:49:06.850
very, very assertive personalities because if

01:49:06.850 --> 01:49:08.770
they didn't, people would walk all over them.

01:49:09.430 --> 01:49:13.210
And I think what's really, really interesting

01:49:15.480 --> 01:49:18.260
about perfidia as she seems to be like the most

01:49:18.260 --> 01:49:23.479
pathological expression of a person who feels

01:49:23.479 --> 01:49:28.640
so powerless that in every single interaction

01:49:28.640 --> 01:49:31.819
she has, she needs to figure out a way to have

01:49:31.819 --> 01:49:35.720
the upper hand and have more power in the dynamic.

01:49:36.460 --> 01:49:40.180
And, um, she kind of meets her match with Steven

01:49:40.180 --> 01:49:43.859
J Lockjaw, right? Because like, That's what's

01:49:43.859 --> 01:49:47.819
so funny about their initial interaction is that

01:49:47.819 --> 01:49:51.119
every time one of them talks, it is just another

01:49:51.119 --> 01:49:55.399
escalation of the power struggle. He's not afraid

01:49:55.399 --> 01:49:58.640
when she shows up and points a gun at him, so

01:49:58.640 --> 01:50:02.520
he kind of wins. And then he thinks it's hot,

01:50:02.699 --> 01:50:05.340
but then she takes control by being like, get

01:50:05.340 --> 01:50:09.909
it up. Do what I tell you. And it's literally

01:50:09.909 --> 01:50:12.390
just like a back and forth where one is trying

01:50:12.390 --> 01:50:18.010
to show that they're the alpha. And Lockjaw kind

01:50:18.010 --> 01:50:21.029
of puts her in a corner and gives her an ultimatum

01:50:21.029 --> 01:50:23.750
when she's planting that bomb in the bank and

01:50:23.750 --> 01:50:25.289
he shows up in the bathroom and he gets behind

01:50:25.289 --> 01:50:28.029
her and she's in a really vulnerable position.

01:50:28.829 --> 01:50:32.590
And he's kind of just like, I don't really care

01:50:32.590 --> 01:50:35.430
what you do, but I want my hat and gun back.

01:50:37.500 --> 01:50:41.880
this shit's over. Your friends are fucked. I

01:50:41.880 --> 01:50:43.579
think at that point it shows she still cares

01:50:43.579 --> 01:50:48.600
about her friends. She's trying to protect them

01:50:48.600 --> 01:50:52.060
by going to Lockjaw's apartment. I think that

01:50:52.060 --> 01:50:54.840
then the next shot you see is of her having a

01:50:54.840 --> 01:50:57.939
gun to Lockjaw's head and him being completely

01:50:57.939 --> 01:51:04.210
powerless and her choosing not to pull the trigger

01:51:04.210 --> 01:51:07.869
of that gun that she brought and to the thing

01:51:07.869 --> 01:51:12.329
and had to his like that instead she is using

01:51:12.329 --> 01:51:15.329
that to put herself above her entire situation

01:51:15.329 --> 01:51:20.409
and move up uh beyond the revolution that just

01:51:20.409 --> 01:51:24.130
it's a selfish sociopathic self like protection

01:51:24.130 --> 01:51:27.569
sure it's protection self -protection um but

01:51:27.569 --> 01:51:30.500
it is I mean, I'm sure that everything Lockjaw

01:51:30.500 --> 01:51:31.939
did in his life, he would say, was protecting

01:51:31.939 --> 01:51:36.659
himself too. I don't know. And if he felt victimized

01:51:36.659 --> 01:51:39.359
as a child, then he could spend his whole life

01:51:39.359 --> 01:51:43.979
saying that it was because of his inherent victimization

01:51:43.979 --> 01:51:47.100
that he had to become Lockjaw. And then, oh,

01:51:47.159 --> 01:51:50.399
well, then he's a hero. But I think that what

01:51:50.399 --> 01:51:54.100
Perfidia does in this movie is monstrous. And

01:51:54.100 --> 01:51:56.579
I don't think that that's something that... all

01:51:56.579 --> 01:51:59.479
black women do or all black women get a pass

01:51:59.479 --> 01:52:03.899
for doing or anything i think no and no one's

01:52:03.899 --> 01:52:06.340
i'm not saying that and i think if that was the

01:52:06.340 --> 01:52:08.100
interpretation you had of the movie that would

01:52:08.100 --> 01:52:12.300
be wrong um i'm not i'm not building a case right

01:52:12.300 --> 01:52:15.359
now for giving perfidia a pass i'm building a

01:52:15.359 --> 01:52:19.100
case for how much more complex the dynamics with

01:52:19.100 --> 01:52:21.260
perfidia and lockjaw are than you might think

01:52:21.260 --> 01:52:24.670
at first that's all um And what gives understanding

01:52:24.670 --> 01:52:28.609
to the scenario as things that are motivated

01:52:28.609 --> 01:52:32.430
by something as opposed to just... Self -interest.

01:52:32.529 --> 01:52:36.189
I don't know. I think that perfidia puts herself

01:52:36.189 --> 01:52:38.890
first and you're scared of that because I put

01:52:38.890 --> 01:52:42.600
myself first. And that's... literally all she

01:52:42.600 --> 01:52:45.420
is and the only reason that bob is attracted

01:52:45.420 --> 01:52:50.340
to her is because she has a large ass like i

01:52:50.340 --> 01:52:52.899
i like and yeah that's when he's young and when

01:52:52.899 --> 01:52:55.039
he grows older he becomes a more sympathetic

01:52:55.039 --> 01:52:59.000
but i i don't see that bob and perfidia's love

01:52:59.000 --> 01:53:01.760
is that much purer than lockjaw and perfidia's

01:53:01.760 --> 01:53:04.300
love i think that perfidia and lockjaw are much

01:53:05.179 --> 01:53:09.420
closer characters like uh they're both sociopathically

01:53:09.420 --> 01:53:12.000
self -interested and willing to kill everybody

01:53:12.000 --> 01:53:14.020
that ever meant anything to them in order to

01:53:14.020 --> 01:53:17.539
get what is theirs true yeah perfidy and lockjaw

01:53:17.539 --> 01:53:20.079
are much more similar but anyway just let me

01:53:20.079 --> 01:53:22.619
finish my case real quick on perfidia before

01:53:22.619 --> 01:53:25.260
like we because you can you can definitely give

01:53:25.260 --> 01:53:27.819
me your case and i might agree with most of it

01:53:27.819 --> 01:53:30.250
but i just like We don't need to argue about

01:53:30.250 --> 01:53:31.949
the point of whether or not she did it completely

01:53:31.949 --> 01:53:35.069
out of self -interest. I think I'm going to give

01:53:35.069 --> 01:53:36.489
her the benefit of the doubt that she cares about

01:53:36.489 --> 01:53:39.770
her friends a little bit. She did. She didn't

01:53:39.770 --> 01:53:43.189
stop them from all being murdered because...

01:53:43.189 --> 01:53:45.470
Okay, this is later. Let me build the case. First

01:53:45.470 --> 01:53:47.949
thing that happens is he comes up behind her

01:53:47.949 --> 01:53:50.689
when she's trying to plant the bomb at the bank,

01:53:50.829 --> 01:53:53.369
gives her an ultimatum that she can't really

01:53:53.369 --> 01:53:55.569
say no to unless she wants to go into hiding

01:53:55.569 --> 01:53:58.460
and have all her friends killed. So... The next

01:53:58.460 --> 01:54:00.479
shot is she's holding a gun to his head and having

01:54:00.479 --> 01:54:02.640
sex with him. But I think it would be very literal

01:54:02.640 --> 01:54:06.600
-minded for you to think that, like, she's actually

01:54:06.600 --> 01:54:08.880
the one in control here. Well, I think that there's

01:54:08.880 --> 01:54:12.180
a lot of ways that you could have degrading sex

01:54:12.180 --> 01:54:16.340
with a locked jaw being degraded by this black

01:54:16.340 --> 01:54:18.899
woman sexually and whatnot and being powerful

01:54:18.899 --> 01:54:21.460
without having it be like... Oh no, literally

01:54:21.460 --> 01:54:23.579
there's a gun to his head. You have all of the

01:54:23.579 --> 01:54:26.380
power to like far beyond this actual moment.

01:54:26.699 --> 01:54:29.920
Like he's giving you all of the power and now

01:54:29.920 --> 01:54:30.840
you're choosing to be his sub. She can't actually

01:54:30.840 --> 01:54:33.899
get away with that though. She can't, it's like,

01:54:33.899 --> 01:54:37.439
like he knows that he has her. Like that's the

01:54:37.439 --> 01:54:41.239
point, you know, like when they met, she was

01:54:41.239 --> 01:54:44.399
holding a gun to him and he was still able to

01:54:44.399 --> 01:54:48.170
make her feel powerless when she did that. That

01:54:48.170 --> 01:54:50.210
made her have to up the ante and try to command

01:54:50.210 --> 01:54:53.010
him to do something embarrassing. Whatever, you

01:54:53.010 --> 01:54:55.310
know what I mean? It's like the gun is like,

01:54:55.489 --> 01:54:58.590
yeah, it's a symbol, a visual symbol of like

01:54:58.590 --> 01:55:01.649
who's trying to be in charge right now. But I

01:55:01.649 --> 01:55:04.189
just think it's more interesting than that. I

01:55:04.189 --> 01:55:06.750
think it's more dynamic than that. Like I'm not

01:55:06.750 --> 01:55:10.609
saying that she's getting raped because I believe

01:55:10.609 --> 01:55:13.510
like that's a strong word. What happens between

01:55:13.510 --> 01:55:15.670
the two of them, what happens to perfidia would

01:55:15.670 --> 01:55:18.359
never have been considered a rape. Anytime before

01:55:18.359 --> 01:55:22.079
Me Too, post -Me Too, the definition of rape

01:55:22.079 --> 01:55:24.859
expanded to absolutely include what's happening

01:55:24.859 --> 01:55:27.000
to Profitia. I don't think that's Paul Thomas

01:55:27.000 --> 01:55:29.359
Anderson trying to say that it is rape, but I

01:55:29.359 --> 01:55:31.119
think that it is interesting that that's there

01:55:31.119 --> 01:55:33.779
and that what is happening between these two

01:55:33.779 --> 01:55:39.020
characters is a power struggle. And in the end,

01:55:39.020 --> 01:55:42.920
Profitia loses. She gets to run away, and who

01:55:42.920 --> 01:55:45.359
knows what happens with her life. Does she get

01:55:45.359 --> 01:55:48.760
to run away? We don't know that. I mean, we see

01:55:48.760 --> 01:55:52.399
her disappear into Mexico, but fucking. Who knows?

01:55:52.420 --> 01:55:54.500
Yeah. There's a lot of vagueness. They do mention

01:55:54.500 --> 01:55:58.500
she died, right? Well, that was a lie. I killed

01:55:58.500 --> 01:56:00.899
that bitch. Was it a lie? I mean, that was a

01:56:00.899 --> 01:56:03.420
lie, I think. I don't know. Do we know? I mean,

01:56:03.520 --> 01:56:05.560
it is. Lockjaw offhandedly says that he killed

01:56:05.560 --> 01:56:07.619
her, but we don't see that he didn't. I guess

01:56:07.619 --> 01:56:11.380
that's true. Did Lockjaw say I killed that bitch?

01:56:11.860 --> 01:56:13.659
He would not have been aware of the mythology,

01:56:13.800 --> 01:56:16.560
I guess you're right. Maybe it was in the Christmas

01:56:16.560 --> 01:56:19.079
Adventurers meeting, but I think it might have

01:56:19.079 --> 01:56:21.539
been... No, I think it was when he's talking

01:56:21.539 --> 01:56:24.000
to Willa and he said, like, he's got a mouth

01:56:24.000 --> 01:56:27.619
on you like your mother and, like, I killed her

01:56:27.619 --> 01:56:29.399
in the end or something like that. There was

01:56:29.399 --> 01:56:32.220
some... Fuck, man, this is the thing. This is

01:56:32.220 --> 01:56:34.020
the thing about watching movies that have only

01:56:34.020 --> 01:56:35.460
just come out and we haven't seen, like, a million

01:56:35.460 --> 01:56:37.800
times. But... Yeah, there was something like

01:56:37.800 --> 01:56:40.699
that. And I'm not sure, we don't know whether

01:56:40.699 --> 01:56:43.640
or not she's alive. I think that would have stood

01:56:43.640 --> 01:56:48.300
out to me because, like, at that moment, Willa's

01:56:48.300 --> 01:56:50.659
already learned that her mom is still alive and

01:56:50.659 --> 01:56:54.119
that that was, like, a lie. And I feel like he

01:56:54.119 --> 01:56:56.619
said that to the Christmas Adventure people to

01:56:56.619 --> 01:56:58.539
really establish, like, yeah, I killed her, you

01:56:58.539 --> 01:57:00.199
know, like, trying to... No, no, I don't think

01:57:00.199 --> 01:57:03.939
it's him saying it to the... No, it's an offhanded

01:57:03.939 --> 01:57:07.590
comment. It's not like he's trying to convince.

01:57:07.810 --> 01:57:10.130
I don't know. It doesn't matter. I mean, it might

01:57:10.130 --> 01:57:12.770
matter because this is where there is a lot of

01:57:12.770 --> 01:57:15.569
gray areas. Like what I wanted to get into about

01:57:15.569 --> 01:57:19.649
what happens next is that, yes, Profitia is holding

01:57:19.649 --> 01:57:23.109
the gun to his head. They're having sex. She

01:57:23.109 --> 01:57:25.109
chooses not to pull the trigger. She chooses

01:57:25.109 --> 01:57:27.109
instead to let him live so they can continue

01:57:27.109 --> 01:57:29.670
to have their tryst. And she can continue to

01:57:29.670 --> 01:57:31.909
get away with the things. Because, of course,

01:57:31.949 --> 01:57:33.890
pulling the trigger on him would have totally

01:57:33.890 --> 01:57:37.340
worked out for her. But when she's leaving the

01:57:37.340 --> 01:57:41.420
motel outside, I think that's one of the few

01:57:41.420 --> 01:57:45.159
moments when you see Perfidia, her body language,

01:57:45.460 --> 01:57:48.119
the way her face looks, that's one of the few

01:57:48.119 --> 01:57:51.579
moments where she's not performing. She's not

01:57:51.579 --> 01:57:56.159
fronting. Her true insecurity and anguish is

01:57:56.159 --> 01:57:59.159
all coming through the cracks. You also kind

01:57:59.159 --> 01:58:02.039
of see it right after she leaves the bathroom,

01:58:02.079 --> 01:58:05.000
after being given the ultimatum by Lockjaw. A

01:58:05.000 --> 01:58:07.100
lot of fear and worry crossing her eyes. She

01:58:07.100 --> 01:58:11.399
looks really weak all of a sudden. She doesn't

01:58:11.399 --> 01:58:13.640
show it to people. I mean, yeah, but see, this

01:58:13.640 --> 01:58:15.560
is the thing. That could be the way that you

01:58:15.560 --> 01:58:18.239
feel if you're being taken advantage of. That's

01:58:18.239 --> 01:58:21.119
one way of interpreting that look and whatnot.

01:58:21.460 --> 01:58:23.439
But I feel like that look could also be the look

01:58:23.439 --> 01:58:26.420
of her being like, fuck, I'm deceiving my boyfriend

01:58:26.420 --> 01:58:29.140
here. But really, I'm going to go get fucked

01:58:29.140 --> 01:58:31.859
by Lockjaw, which is what I really want. And

01:58:31.859 --> 01:58:34.659
that's really fucked up. I'm confused about the

01:58:34.659 --> 01:58:36.760
way that I feel and whatever. But if he gives

01:58:36.760 --> 01:58:38.859
me a gun and makes me hold it to his head, I'm

01:58:38.859 --> 01:58:40.939
not going to pull the trigger because this is

01:58:40.939 --> 01:58:42.760
a choice that I'm making right now not to tell

01:58:42.760 --> 01:58:45.619
my boyfriend and not to pull the trigger. And

01:58:45.619 --> 01:58:48.159
hopefully, maybe that'll get me favors in the

01:58:48.159 --> 01:58:50.260
future or whatever, like it actually does. And

01:58:50.260 --> 01:58:53.140
then everybody else is disposable because I actually

01:58:53.140 --> 01:58:56.779
can. In the end, maybe Lockjaw kills me, maybe

01:58:56.779 --> 01:59:00.859
not. It actually is good politics to be in bed

01:59:00.859 --> 01:59:02.899
with the enemy a little bit. Exactly. And to

01:59:02.899 --> 01:59:05.960
put yourself first. You're just mad because I

01:59:05.960 --> 01:59:08.539
put myself first. Yeah, yeah. I just think when

01:59:08.539 --> 01:59:11.000
she says that, that's Profitia, the actor, and

01:59:11.000 --> 01:59:14.760
whatever. And she holds to it. She has an ideology

01:59:14.760 --> 01:59:18.140
she holds to. But I give her a little bit more

01:59:18.140 --> 01:59:20.920
credit than you do that there's a lot of internal...

01:59:21.260 --> 01:59:23.560
like anguish. No, I mean, I think she's having

01:59:23.560 --> 01:59:26.460
a postpartum depression episode. Absolutely.

01:59:26.720 --> 01:59:29.100
Like she's jealous of her child. She's like,

01:59:29.159 --> 01:59:30.819
there's definitely things happening emotionally.

01:59:31.119 --> 01:59:34.279
There's also a history of fucking slavery in

01:59:34.279 --> 01:59:36.119
this country. There's this racism. It is a thing.

01:59:36.420 --> 01:59:39.979
I would say less so maybe in the 2010s and whatever,

01:59:40.140 --> 01:59:42.159
which were like the flashback times happened

01:59:42.159 --> 01:59:44.859
during Obama. Why would she want to raise the

01:59:44.859 --> 01:59:47.300
baby that Lockjaw put in her? You know, she knows

01:59:47.300 --> 01:59:52.039
it's his. I don't know. Like, It just seems complicated

01:59:52.039 --> 01:59:54.560
to me, and that doesn't give her a pass. I mean,

01:59:54.560 --> 01:59:58.359
why would Bob? Well, Bob doesn't know, but Bob

01:59:58.359 --> 02:00:01.979
also isn't. Bob does know, I think, though. Like,

02:00:01.979 --> 02:00:04.680
Bob knows and doesn't care. We don't know if

02:00:04.680 --> 02:00:06.600
Bob knows and doesn't matter. That's why it never

02:00:06.600 --> 02:00:08.560
comes up, because Bob would do the right thing

02:00:08.560 --> 02:00:11.140
either way. Why would Bob do the right thing

02:00:11.140 --> 02:00:14.000
either way, but Profitia wouldn't? Is it because

02:00:14.000 --> 02:00:17.659
of a history of... or something like that? No.

02:00:17.779 --> 02:00:19.100
Do you know what I mean? Or is it because Profiti

02:00:19.100 --> 02:00:22.140
is a bad person? I mean, yeah. And Bob is a good

02:00:22.140 --> 02:00:24.659
person. Well, yeah. Profiti is a bad person and

02:00:24.659 --> 02:00:27.180
Bob's a good person. And I understand it's as

02:00:27.180 --> 02:00:30.439
simple as that. And she's really just not a very

02:00:30.439 --> 02:00:33.279
redeeming character. But I don't know. I'm not

02:00:33.279 --> 02:00:36.659
trying to give her a pass or make excuses for

02:00:36.659 --> 02:00:39.220
her behavior because I do find it abhorrent.

02:00:39.319 --> 02:00:41.819
But I'm just trying to suggest that maybe she's

02:00:41.819 --> 02:00:46.359
more complicated and nuanced. then people give

02:00:46.359 --> 02:00:49.500
her credit because if she's not, then she is

02:00:49.500 --> 02:00:52.319
basically just the Jezebel stereotype that everyone

02:00:52.319 --> 02:00:57.680
is saying that she is. And Tiana Taylor has responded

02:00:57.680 --> 02:01:01.979
to that kind of presenting the sort of argument

02:01:01.979 --> 02:01:07.220
I am, which is that she is a person who needs

02:01:07.220 --> 02:01:11.600
to use her sexuality to survive and have the

02:01:11.600 --> 02:01:14.949
upper hand and to not be a victim. But to me,

02:01:14.970 --> 02:01:17.770
I think it's putting that thing in a place where

02:01:17.770 --> 02:01:20.350
you can see what's monstrous about it, where

02:01:20.350 --> 02:01:23.590
it's not taking care of its child because it

02:01:23.590 --> 02:01:25.789
wants to go out and rob a bank and kill someone

02:01:25.789 --> 02:01:28.510
for no reason so that they can get away with

02:01:28.510 --> 02:01:31.250
killing all of their friends and going to the

02:01:31.250 --> 02:01:33.590
man that will save them and they can restart

02:01:33.590 --> 02:01:36.630
because they're worried because they gave birth

02:01:36.630 --> 02:01:39.289
to the wrong kid. You know what I mean? I mean,

02:01:39.310 --> 02:01:41.210
it's a horrible situation, but it's one she kind

02:01:41.210 --> 02:01:45.119
of put on herself. Like I said, I never said,

02:01:45.260 --> 02:01:48.659
like, any of this gives her a pass. And I also,

02:01:48.779 --> 02:01:53.420
most of what I'm saying is only, like, to say

02:01:53.420 --> 02:01:55.859
that all these characters feel, like, human and

02:01:55.859 --> 02:01:58.199
understandable to me. It doesn't mean they're

02:01:58.199 --> 02:02:00.560
all good. I agree. Because I think the same can

02:02:00.560 --> 02:02:02.399
be said about Lockjaw. Like, I don't think Lockjaw

02:02:02.399 --> 02:02:04.439
is, like, a good person. He's a fascist. And

02:02:04.439 --> 02:02:08.029
he's, like, really, really, like. got the wrong

02:02:08.029 --> 02:02:10.310
fucking priorities. He's completely poisoned.

02:02:10.430 --> 02:02:12.550
He's opposite end of the spectrum is perfidia.

02:02:12.850 --> 02:02:15.930
He's like poisoned by the system in a different

02:02:15.930 --> 02:02:18.010
way and has a different kind of pathology that

02:02:18.010 --> 02:02:22.130
comes from his privilege and power that he's

02:02:22.130 --> 02:02:25.550
wielded, you know, as opposed to like the lack

02:02:25.550 --> 02:02:27.829
thereof or whatever. I mean, or it's the lack

02:02:27.829 --> 02:02:30.170
thereof too. He's just a, he's just a part of

02:02:30.170 --> 02:02:34.359
a system that he's a cog in. And then the only

02:02:34.359 --> 02:02:36.520
way to move up in that system is to pull one

02:02:36.520 --> 02:02:39.159
of these moves that he pulls and then moves up

02:02:39.159 --> 02:02:41.340
in the system because he pulls the move. But

02:02:41.340 --> 02:02:44.920
that's the pathology is chasing that power and

02:02:44.920 --> 02:02:48.239
chasing the rising up in that system. The pathology

02:02:48.239 --> 02:02:50.279
is that he always puts himself first and you

02:02:50.279 --> 02:02:54.420
mad because he puts himself first. Well, okay.

02:02:54.539 --> 02:02:57.479
Yeah, we can simplify to that. But it also seems

02:02:57.479 --> 02:03:01.760
like the pathology is about gaining something.

02:03:03.909 --> 02:03:07.149
And that's an idea he's been sold as something

02:03:07.149 --> 02:03:09.630
that's important. Because he also specifically

02:03:09.630 --> 02:03:13.270
says to Willa that joining the Christmas Adventures

02:03:13.270 --> 02:03:15.569
Club is a higher honor, even a higher honor than

02:03:15.569 --> 02:03:18.829
having you. That there are things in life that

02:03:18.829 --> 02:03:20.149
are more important than having children. I think

02:03:20.149 --> 02:03:22.289
that is a pathology that people have been sold

02:03:22.289 --> 02:03:27.789
on either end of the spectrum. That you can replace

02:03:27.789 --> 02:03:32.390
the importance of that act with... being a revolutionary

02:03:32.390 --> 02:03:34.609
and saving people's lives or having a career

02:03:34.609 --> 02:03:39.369
or like, uh, being part of an elite society that

02:03:39.369 --> 02:03:42.069
has like power and control over the world and

02:03:42.069 --> 02:03:45.729
whatever. Lockjaw is a very, very pitiable, sad

02:03:45.729 --> 02:03:48.449
character, especially in the end, his second,

02:03:48.489 --> 02:03:51.390
his second death in the office is one of the

02:03:51.390 --> 02:03:56.789
most like pathetic things imaginable. Like, um,

02:03:57.529 --> 02:04:01.399
for a character who like, survives that badass

02:04:01.399 --> 02:04:03.899
first death of getting shot in the face and just

02:04:03.899 --> 02:04:08.060
has like such a intense command about him in

02:04:08.060 --> 02:04:10.380
most scenes you know but like there's an underlying

02:04:10.380 --> 02:04:14.500
patheticness and security and like he's like

02:04:14.500 --> 02:04:19.539
he like almost just seems like a little boy in

02:04:19.539 --> 02:04:21.539
that last scene when he starts to cry over the

02:04:21.539 --> 02:04:25.659
office and stuff there's one person that he put

02:04:25.659 --> 02:04:28.500
above himself and it was Profitia and then she

02:04:28.500 --> 02:04:31.920
just gave him the finger and then he's, and then

02:04:31.920 --> 02:04:34.779
he hates the world, you know, but there is something

02:04:34.779 --> 02:04:36.720
pathetic to that. There is something empathetic.

02:04:36.720 --> 02:04:38.920
Like we, we empathize somewhat with that, that

02:04:38.920 --> 02:04:41.380
it was, but I think that that's the thing is

02:04:41.380 --> 02:04:43.939
I think that, uh, people are seeing this just

02:04:43.939 --> 02:04:47.939
as like, no, this is this evil. I don't know.

02:04:47.960 --> 02:04:50.239
I think there's love between perfidy and lockjaw

02:04:50.239 --> 02:04:53.199
and that they're both evil. Like, you know, well,

02:04:53.340 --> 02:04:56.300
what is, um, what is, uh, Austin Butler say?

02:04:57.840 --> 02:05:00.560
In Eddington, Austin Butler says, Joe, you want

02:05:00.560 --> 02:05:02.979
things to be simple. You can't imagine that with

02:05:02.979 --> 02:05:06.119
all that pain, there's also love. Right, right.

02:05:06.180 --> 02:05:09.319
I think this movie is complicated, too. I do

02:05:09.319 --> 02:05:12.579
not deny the idea that there's actual sexual

02:05:12.579 --> 02:05:16.140
attraction, at the very least, or love between

02:05:16.140 --> 02:05:18.619
Profitia and Lockjaw, that they actually understand

02:05:18.619 --> 02:05:22.460
each other more than Bob understands her. Because

02:05:22.460 --> 02:05:25.340
Bob is also just like, you know, he's just like

02:05:25.340 --> 02:05:28.470
the kids. In, uh, Eddington are doing it for

02:05:28.470 --> 02:05:31.470
the pussy. Right. Right. That's what he says

02:05:31.470 --> 02:05:34.510
in the first scene. Yeah. I like black girls.

02:05:34.850 --> 02:05:38.930
What do you think I'm doing here? And I don't

02:05:38.930 --> 02:05:41.470
think, um, Lockjaw is doing it solely for the

02:05:41.470 --> 02:05:45.229
pussy. The pussy becomes kind of like a, um,

02:05:45.229 --> 02:05:46.310
he's doing it for the power. He's putting pussy

02:05:46.310 --> 02:05:49.710
ahead of his career at that point. Yeah. And

02:05:49.710 --> 02:05:52.409
it's a mistake. It's something that like. Could

02:05:52.409 --> 02:05:54.329
theoretically fuck up his chances to climb the

02:05:54.329 --> 02:05:55.689
ladder. Once she breaks his heart, he decides

02:05:55.689 --> 02:05:59.130
it's a mistake. Once the Christmas adventurers

02:05:59.130 --> 02:06:02.510
come to him and say we want you to join the club.

02:06:02.529 --> 02:06:03.489
Which is way after she breaks his heart. But

02:06:03.489 --> 02:06:06.210
I think it's before that. I think it's when she

02:06:06.210 --> 02:06:10.210
breaks his heart that that happens. I think it's

02:06:10.210 --> 02:06:12.090
like in this whole section of the movie and some

02:06:12.090 --> 02:06:14.090
parts of it earlier where you actually do see

02:06:14.090 --> 02:06:18.770
a true expression of the type of power he has.

02:06:19.659 --> 02:06:22.399
Lockjaw is the kind of person who can, like,

02:06:22.420 --> 02:06:27.000
take a personal goal and then, like, rally his

02:06:27.000 --> 02:06:30.880
entire military unit to do that under some kind

02:06:30.880 --> 02:06:34.739
of other pretense. Right. You know? And, like,

02:06:34.800 --> 02:06:38.260
you know, raid an entire town and, like, just

02:06:38.260 --> 02:06:42.319
start, like, causing all this chaos and then,

02:06:42.340 --> 02:06:48.659
like, extra judicially kill people. Which I guess

02:06:48.659 --> 02:06:50.319
is a question, but that was the other thing that

02:06:50.319 --> 02:06:52.800
I really thought was vague and had questions

02:06:52.800 --> 02:06:57.460
about, is that she murders someone in the bank

02:06:57.460 --> 02:07:02.939
job, gets caught, Lockjaw comes in, gives her

02:07:02.939 --> 02:07:06.920
another ultimatum, says you have to name names,

02:07:07.079 --> 02:07:09.640
and that can get you out of this. But what's

02:07:09.640 --> 02:07:13.399
weird about that is it ends up going into a kind

02:07:13.399 --> 02:07:16.680
of... super cut with a lot of jump cuts that

02:07:16.680 --> 02:07:19.140
jump around you're not really sure like exactly

02:07:19.140 --> 02:07:25.020
where things fall in time but you see her like

02:07:25.020 --> 02:07:29.460
getting put into witness protection and at that

02:07:29.460 --> 02:07:31.880
point her trial hasn't even happened yet so like

02:07:31.880 --> 02:07:34.039
she hasn't named names yet she hasn't gone to

02:07:34.039 --> 02:07:37.550
trial But she may have named names to Lockjaw.

02:07:37.770 --> 02:07:39.229
Yeah, of course. She named names to Lockjaw.

02:07:39.270 --> 02:07:40.510
That's what she did. And then he went and killed

02:07:40.510 --> 02:07:43.130
everybody. That's what named names is. And then

02:07:43.130 --> 02:07:46.430
he gets into power for taking down the whole

02:07:46.430 --> 02:07:49.390
thing. Okay, then why is there a trial set up?

02:07:50.210 --> 02:07:52.470
Why is she being put into witness protection?

02:07:52.750 --> 02:07:56.489
And also, why does she need to name names? He's

02:07:56.489 --> 02:07:58.350
always been perfectly capable of finding them

02:07:58.350 --> 02:08:03.069
wherever they are. Have you noticed that? He

02:08:03.069 --> 02:08:04.310
keeps showing up wherever she's going to put

02:08:04.310 --> 02:08:08.449
a bomb next. The idea that he can't find these

02:08:08.449 --> 02:08:12.510
people is ridiculous. But then also, how can

02:08:12.510 --> 02:08:15.329
he just extrajudicially kill all these people

02:08:15.329 --> 02:08:18.949
and then get a medal for it when there's an ongoing

02:08:18.949 --> 02:08:21.949
trial set up? Do you remember which medal it

02:08:21.949 --> 02:08:25.109
was? I don't remember, no. I think it was the

02:08:25.109 --> 02:08:28.270
Nathan Bedford Forrest Medal of Honor. Really?

02:08:28.779 --> 02:08:33.319
It was the Bedford Forest Medal or something,

02:08:33.560 --> 02:08:37.500
yeah. That's interesting. Founder of the KKK.

02:08:37.659 --> 02:08:38.880
But there's something really vague about that.

02:08:38.939 --> 02:08:40.699
It feels like she runs away before her trial

02:08:40.699 --> 02:08:42.279
date, but he already killed everyone anyway.

02:08:42.659 --> 02:08:46.420
It's because it's all a fucking cartoon of justice

02:08:46.420 --> 02:08:49.039
and reality. It's like, see, the police, they

02:08:49.039 --> 02:08:52.579
kill this many people. It's all the cartoon version.

02:08:52.760 --> 02:08:55.600
And these are all the arch versions of the thing.

02:08:55.779 --> 02:08:58.640
So, yeah, how can Lockjaw do this? Obviously

02:08:58.640 --> 02:09:02.039
he can't. That's not the way that reality works.

02:09:02.300 --> 02:09:05.960
We all know that this is a cartoon. why it's

02:09:05.960 --> 02:09:09.859
so ridiculous it's like why none of it like it's

02:09:09.859 --> 02:09:12.960
and it's the same with like why the black girl

02:09:12.960 --> 02:09:17.119
calls herself jungle pussy and like i know that

02:09:17.119 --> 02:09:18.979
this girl in real life called herself jungle

02:09:18.979 --> 02:09:21.180
pussy but they hired a girl who in real life

02:09:21.180 --> 02:09:24.699
called herself jungle pussy to represent blackness

02:09:24.699 --> 02:09:30.340
in this movie that's i mean so so In the Marc

02:09:30.340 --> 02:09:33.840
Maron episode, Paul Thomas Anderson talks about

02:09:33.840 --> 02:09:37.779
Putney Swope as being like one of the things

02:09:37.779 --> 02:09:40.460
that got made him start like wanting to make

02:09:40.460 --> 02:09:43.819
movies, wanting to get into it. And like this

02:09:43.819 --> 02:09:46.439
is made by the guy who made who loves Putney

02:09:46.439 --> 02:09:49.180
Swope. Like this is there is part of the joke

02:09:49.180 --> 02:09:51.819
here is like how funny black people are for.

02:09:52.119 --> 02:09:55.180
being that way like you know that is that is

02:09:55.180 --> 02:09:57.579
like a thing and I know that Paul Thomas Anderson

02:09:57.579 --> 02:10:00.960
has a black wife but like again like he doesn't

02:10:00.960 --> 02:10:05.859
have a like wife who calls herself jungle pussy

02:10:05.859 --> 02:10:09.359
and like talks in a way like you know what I

02:10:09.359 --> 02:10:12.420
mean it's it's he's got a very talented wife

02:10:12.420 --> 02:10:14.600
who is black and whatever he didn't just like

02:10:14.600 --> 02:10:18.539
find the girl who has the biggest ass You don't

02:10:18.539 --> 02:10:21.899
need to fight this straw, man. I was never saying

02:10:21.899 --> 02:10:24.939
that his relationship with a black woman informed

02:10:24.939 --> 02:10:27.640
all these black female characters. No, no, I

02:10:27.640 --> 02:10:29.680
know, I know. But I think the part of the thing

02:10:29.680 --> 02:10:34.119
is that he is not that sympathetic to this revolution.

02:10:35.159 --> 02:10:37.979
I don't think that this revolution are the good

02:10:37.979 --> 02:10:41.739
guys. I don't think that... Bob is somehow like

02:10:41.739 --> 02:10:44.359
correct about it. Like, I think, I think there

02:10:44.359 --> 02:10:46.439
is a, I think in the end we can get to Bob. Cause

02:10:46.439 --> 02:10:48.600
I think that there is a heroism to Bob and whatnot

02:10:48.600 --> 02:10:52.279
and Willa. And I just think you judge, I think

02:10:52.279 --> 02:10:56.979
you judge the critique of perfidia a lot more

02:10:56.979 --> 02:11:00.119
than the critique of a lockjaw. Like you're more

02:11:00.119 --> 02:11:02.039
focused on the critique of the left than the

02:11:02.039 --> 02:11:04.720
critique of the right. But I think this kind

02:11:04.720 --> 02:11:07.550
of gets to a point. that I realize is very interesting

02:11:07.550 --> 02:11:10.029
about the way people respond to this movie, that

02:11:10.029 --> 02:11:11.590
it's a bit of a litmus test. It's a bit of a

02:11:11.590 --> 02:11:14.350
Rorschach. I think some people watch this and

02:11:14.350 --> 02:11:17.329
think this movie is super woke and leftist. That's

02:11:17.329 --> 02:11:21.609
exactly right. It's a movie that has them liberating

02:11:21.609 --> 02:11:22.590
the immigrant camp. It's only making a mockery

02:11:22.590 --> 02:11:26.670
out of the right. Yeah, yeah. But then people

02:11:26.670 --> 02:11:28.970
like you will be like, oh, this is totally making

02:11:28.970 --> 02:11:32.029
a mockery of the left. Yeah, but I think a big

02:11:32.029 --> 02:11:33.590
problem is that there are a lot of people who

02:11:33.590 --> 02:11:36.810
are not seeing that it's doing both. I think

02:11:36.810 --> 02:11:39.090
that like Bredesen Ellis has come out as talking

02:11:39.090 --> 02:11:41.590
about like how annoying it is that Paul Thomas

02:11:41.590 --> 02:11:43.850
Anderson has gotten so woke and whatever. And

02:11:43.850 --> 02:11:46.609
it's like, no, the problem is that woke has gotten

02:11:46.609 --> 02:11:49.090
so parodic that you can't tell the difference

02:11:49.090 --> 02:11:51.510
between parody and reality because reality is

02:11:51.510 --> 02:11:55.210
so parodic already. I think that Paul Thomas

02:11:55.210 --> 02:11:57.890
Anderson is doing this in a tongue -in -cheek

02:11:57.890 --> 02:12:00.350
way, where it's like when they say free bodies,

02:12:00.449 --> 02:12:03.510
free choices, freedom from fear, that is like

02:12:03.510 --> 02:12:07.649
banality. That is utterly, you're saying absolutely

02:12:07.649 --> 02:12:11.050
nothing and you have nothing to fight for. You're

02:12:11.050 --> 02:12:14.369
just freedom from everything and we're the ones

02:12:14.369 --> 02:12:16.569
that are right because we're saying freedom in

02:12:16.569 --> 02:12:20.800
our slogan three times. Freedom from hunger,

02:12:20.920 --> 02:12:24.100
freedom from bad weather, and freedom from pain

02:12:24.100 --> 02:12:28.180
in the, you know, feet. I don't know. Sure, sure.

02:12:28.279 --> 02:12:31.619
But they're also called the French 75, which

02:12:31.619 --> 02:12:34.359
is like, I mean, they're named after a cocktail,

02:12:34.619 --> 02:12:38.760
you know. I mean, the cocktail is named after,

02:12:38.779 --> 02:12:43.239
like, an old cannon that was, like, discontinued

02:12:43.239 --> 02:12:46.340
after World War I or something. Okay. But like,

02:12:46.340 --> 02:12:48.699
but they're named after a cocktail, you know,

02:12:48.699 --> 02:12:52.020
like that's just as unserious as like the Christmas

02:12:52.020 --> 02:12:53.899
Adventurers Club. Well, that's the thing is I

02:12:53.899 --> 02:12:55.840
also think that people are seeing this and saying

02:12:55.840 --> 02:12:57.520
like, well, yeah, it's parodic and it's over

02:12:57.520 --> 02:12:59.899
the top. Right. But we're talking about how behind

02:12:59.899 --> 02:13:03.680
everything is white supremacy. Like that's the

02:13:03.680 --> 02:13:05.739
point is that it's all about like behind the

02:13:05.739 --> 02:13:08.100
power structure behind everything. It is all

02:13:08.100 --> 02:13:10.020
just white supremacy is running everything. Right.

02:13:10.180 --> 02:13:13.060
And it's like. No, I think that the point is

02:13:13.060 --> 02:13:16.960
that's the cartoon that you believe in that he's

02:13:16.960 --> 02:13:19.720
depicting. Like that, like the type of people

02:13:19.720 --> 02:13:22.180
who think that Profitia Beverly Hills is a sympathetic

02:13:22.180 --> 02:13:24.800
character and that somebody calling herself jungle

02:13:24.800 --> 02:13:26.920
pussy is a serious person that we should take

02:13:26.920 --> 02:13:30.880
seriously. And that, you know what I mean? This

02:13:30.880 --> 02:13:33.840
is, yes, I think it is. It's a litmus test in

02:13:33.840 --> 02:13:35.520
some ways, but I think it's important to point

02:13:35.520 --> 02:13:37.460
out those things. Cause like, again, like when

02:13:37.460 --> 02:13:39.720
I was talking to about this, we got into like

02:13:39.720 --> 02:13:43.520
the last, um the reading of the letter and stuff

02:13:43.520 --> 02:13:46.960
and i'm just like dude the problem with that

02:13:46.960 --> 02:13:49.199
letter is that it says nothing it's so banal

02:13:49.199 --> 02:13:51.119
there's like nothing going on in it and stuff

02:13:51.119 --> 02:13:52.880
he's like yeah no obviously like that's everybody

02:13:52.880 --> 02:13:56.260
knows that the letter is supposed to be taken

02:13:56.260 --> 02:13:58.699
ironically and i was just like no not everybody

02:13:58.699 --> 02:14:01.260
knows that you can't not everybody is a smart

02:14:01.260 --> 02:14:04.060
savvy enough viewer to know that this letter

02:14:04.060 --> 02:14:07.770
is not just a straightforward thing. Many people

02:14:07.770 --> 02:14:10.250
are going home being like, oh man, good. It leaves

02:14:10.250 --> 02:14:11.970
you with a good taste in your mouth. Maybe the

02:14:11.970 --> 02:14:15.090
revolution will come back in this new generation

02:14:15.090 --> 02:14:20.090
because now there's a new mixed race girl who's,

02:14:20.090 --> 02:14:22.289
you know what I mean? It's like people do take

02:14:22.289 --> 02:14:23.989
things wrong. I think it's important to kind

02:14:23.989 --> 02:14:26.489
of point out. There's also the opposite too.

02:14:27.109 --> 02:14:30.750
There's the opposite too of people reacting the

02:14:30.750 --> 02:14:33.189
way I did the first time, which is just like,

02:14:33.250 --> 02:14:36.590
that didn't hit. That just felt so fucking generic

02:14:36.590 --> 02:14:40.310
after all this other stuff that happened in this

02:14:40.310 --> 02:14:42.989
movie that felt fresh and subversive. You're

02:14:42.989 --> 02:14:47.350
just going to leave us with this fucking schmaltzy

02:14:47.350 --> 02:14:52.670
nothing letter that makes the daughter feel like

02:14:52.670 --> 02:14:55.229
she can continue in her mother's footsteps to

02:14:55.229 --> 02:14:58.850
fight the good fight and go to a protest. Go

02:14:58.850 --> 02:15:01.609
rewatch Lady Bird and see how to do it right.

02:15:01.979 --> 02:15:04.119
You know what I mean? Like, that letter has made

02:15:04.119 --> 02:15:06.659
me cry before, but fucking in this movie, it

02:15:06.659 --> 02:15:08.279
was just bad, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get

02:15:08.279 --> 02:15:12.340
it, I get it. Yeah, it is bad. Yeah, she expresses,

02:15:12.420 --> 02:15:16.199
like, lazy regret and asks a bunch of banal questions

02:15:16.199 --> 02:15:19.899
about where, you know, Willa is in her life or

02:15:19.899 --> 02:15:21.800
whatever. Like, it's... Were we wrong about the

02:15:21.800 --> 02:15:24.859
revolution? Yeah, are you going to... Are you

02:15:24.859 --> 02:15:27.520
doing okay? I hope you're... It's such a nothing

02:15:27.520 --> 02:15:31.500
burger. Yeah, yeah. And again, like talking to

02:15:31.500 --> 02:15:33.739
like, well, no, everybody knows that's a nothing

02:15:33.739 --> 02:15:35.579
burger. Obviously, you're supposed to think it's

02:15:35.579 --> 02:15:37.359
like, no, no, no, no, no. You have to point out

02:15:37.359 --> 02:15:39.159
to people that. And again, I think you need to

02:15:39.159 --> 02:15:41.140
point out to people that like Profitia Beverly

02:15:41.140 --> 02:15:44.079
Hills is not a heroic character just because

02:15:44.079 --> 02:15:47.539
she is black. Jungle Pussy is not a serious person

02:15:47.539 --> 02:15:49.819
just because she is black. The revolution is

02:15:49.819 --> 02:15:51.520
not serious just because it is siding with black

02:15:51.520 --> 02:15:54.779
people. Like and the fact that white supremacy

02:15:54.779 --> 02:15:58.750
is behind the government is not like a. true

02:15:58.750 --> 02:16:01.449
statement of the way things actually are in reality,

02:16:01.609 --> 02:16:03.909
it's kind of just as ridiculous as these other

02:16:03.909 --> 02:16:07.449
archetypes and stereotypes that we're looking

02:16:07.449 --> 02:16:11.229
at. Oh, I agree. But that's why I think a very

02:16:11.229 --> 02:16:15.609
sober look at all of it leads you to think that

02:16:15.609 --> 02:16:20.989
they are all sympathetic characters. I agree.

02:16:21.250 --> 02:16:24.270
I agree. I think this, unlike Eddington, is sympathetic

02:16:24.270 --> 02:16:25.569
to everyone. Yeah, yeah. I think if you're going

02:16:25.569 --> 02:16:30.930
to focus on perfidia and not and not lockjaw

02:16:30.930 --> 02:16:33.030
then that's like that's an imbalance you know

02:16:33.030 --> 02:16:34.549
like because i feel like yeah there's people

02:16:34.549 --> 02:16:37.129
who watch the movie who who will be like you're

02:16:37.129 --> 02:16:41.290
lionizing this black antifa person and turning

02:16:41.290 --> 02:16:45.629
this uh white american man of the law into a

02:16:45.629 --> 02:16:50.450
clown but basically i think like perfidia and

02:16:50.450 --> 02:16:54.129
lockjaw are both complex human characters who

02:16:54.129 --> 02:16:57.219
are both very sympathetic They're both very,

02:16:57.319 --> 02:16:59.479
very complex and sympathetic, and they're also

02:16:59.479 --> 02:17:03.840
both very, very evil and clowns. Exactly. Yeah.

02:17:04.379 --> 02:17:07.819
Exactly. And I think it's important to point

02:17:07.819 --> 02:17:10.459
one out because I think that the other one is

02:17:10.459 --> 02:17:13.340
so obvious, right? But it's like... Yeah, exactly.

02:17:13.520 --> 02:17:16.440
I get why you're spending more time on perfidia.

02:17:17.129 --> 02:17:18.690
But, dude, I just don't understand who would

02:17:18.690 --> 02:17:21.649
watch this movie and think Profitia is likable

02:17:21.649 --> 02:17:23.809
at all. Like, that was a thing. No, no, honestly,

02:17:23.969 --> 02:17:26.510
like, me. Like, honestly, like, a lot of people.

02:17:26.590 --> 02:17:29.270
Like, I find that to be kind of, like, a fun,

02:17:29.389 --> 02:17:31.770
like, I like the black girl who says fuck you

02:17:31.770 --> 02:17:33.670
to the thing. There's, like, that is an aesthetic.

02:17:33.870 --> 02:17:35.850
It's just, like, it's just, like, when we...

02:17:36.569 --> 02:17:38.770
as kids watch something like revenge of the nerds

02:17:38.770 --> 02:17:40.549
and are like i'm a nerd i side with that it's

02:17:40.549 --> 02:17:42.549
like if there's a black girl who's saying fuck

02:17:42.549 --> 02:17:45.309
you to like a big police officer guy it's like

02:17:45.309 --> 02:17:47.610
yeah that's the good like i that's we do side

02:17:47.610 --> 02:17:49.909
with that and aesthetically there's a certain

02:17:49.909 --> 02:17:52.989
that now i think that he also added it it's not

02:17:52.989 --> 02:17:55.809
my job to it they made it a little bit racist

02:17:55.809 --> 02:18:00.909
and funny but like there is like that thing that

02:18:02.040 --> 02:18:04.559
I think he's playing with that we do connect

02:18:04.559 --> 02:18:06.540
with and just go like, oh, it's the underdog.

02:18:06.680 --> 02:18:08.719
And that's the automatic, that's how you take

02:18:08.719 --> 02:18:11.920
in a movie is you try and figure out what archetype

02:18:11.920 --> 02:18:14.020
is this ascribed to and whatever and whose side

02:18:14.020 --> 02:18:16.739
are we on and blah, blah, blah. This movie makes

02:18:16.739 --> 02:18:18.940
it a lot harder, I think, because it's undermining

02:18:18.940 --> 02:18:22.680
those things all the time. We're talking a lot

02:18:22.680 --> 02:18:24.020
about these two characters. We haven't gotten

02:18:24.020 --> 02:18:25.620
to Bob, who I really think we need to talk about.

02:18:25.620 --> 02:18:28.059
No, I know, I know. I just think this is all

02:18:28.059 --> 02:18:28.899
super important. This is the whole first part

02:18:28.899 --> 02:18:29.780
of the movie. We haven't gotten to the whole

02:18:29.780 --> 02:18:32.799
actual rest of the movie. I know. I know. I just

02:18:32.799 --> 02:18:35.559
think this is important stuff because I think

02:18:35.559 --> 02:18:37.500
it's like, I think it's one of the more misunderstood

02:18:37.500 --> 02:18:39.559
parts of the movie. Like, I don't think like,

02:18:39.620 --> 02:18:42.680
I think like people probably get Bob a little

02:18:42.680 --> 02:18:46.360
more and get what that is, you know? But like,

02:18:46.420 --> 02:18:48.319
I think there's a lot more confusing around,

02:18:48.360 --> 02:18:52.399
around perfidia and lockjaw and whatever. Here's

02:18:52.399 --> 02:18:57.100
my question is if this is 2025 and then 16 years

02:18:57.100 --> 02:18:59.059
ago or whatever, we're looking at like 2009,

02:18:59.280 --> 02:19:03.440
are we talking about like, The French 75 is like

02:19:03.440 --> 02:19:08.059
the Occupy Wall Street contingent sort of thing.

02:19:08.180 --> 02:19:12.540
And then now they're the Resistance Libs sort

02:19:12.540 --> 02:19:16.899
of thing. Just like in Eddington, it was the

02:19:16.899 --> 02:19:18.639
Resistance Libs on the street and whatever. So

02:19:18.639 --> 02:19:21.200
now in this, they're kind of the Resistance Libs

02:19:21.200 --> 02:19:24.000
too, or what? I think they're basically a really

02:19:24.000 --> 02:19:27.899
cartoony version of what the Resistance Libs

02:19:27.899 --> 02:19:31.090
would want to be. if they were actual revolutionaries

02:19:31.090 --> 02:19:32.629
and they actually wanted to get their hands dirty

02:19:32.629 --> 02:19:35.049
and stuff. Right. If they were, like, the weather

02:19:35.049 --> 02:19:37.149
underground and they were blowing shit up and,

02:19:37.170 --> 02:19:40.329
like, actually gumming up the works. Like, maybe

02:19:40.329 --> 02:19:43.270
they don't have a specific plan on how to make

02:19:43.270 --> 02:19:45.770
things better, but they do know how to, like,

02:19:45.770 --> 02:19:50.370
disrupt what the system is doing and cause chaos

02:19:50.370 --> 02:19:54.229
and whatever. That's not what resistance libs

02:19:54.229 --> 02:19:56.069
are doing by protesting and voting and shit,

02:19:56.149 --> 02:19:59.670
you know? It's another level. I think, like,

02:19:59.709 --> 02:20:02.270
yeah, I think it kind of, like, is the most extreme

02:20:02.270 --> 02:20:06.430
sort of representation of all those vibes at

02:20:06.430 --> 02:20:10.010
that time, the kind of Occupy movement. I am

02:20:10.010 --> 02:20:13.110
Legion, you know. But I think they're basically

02:20:13.110 --> 02:20:15.290
Antifa, you know, in the most broad term, like,

02:20:15.329 --> 02:20:17.729
not the specific group, whatever that even means.

02:20:17.909 --> 02:20:20.430
Right. But just, like, they're anti -fascists.

02:20:20.590 --> 02:20:25.340
Right. And I think that they're vague. lack of

02:20:25.340 --> 02:20:27.899
anything. We don't even know what they're doing

02:20:27.899 --> 02:20:29.260
most of the time. You know what I mean? It's

02:20:29.260 --> 02:20:30.299
like, okay, we're going to go in, we're going

02:20:30.299 --> 02:20:31.979
to blow this up, this thing. It's like, where

02:20:31.979 --> 02:20:35.340
is this? Is this a courthouse, I guess? Why are

02:20:35.340 --> 02:20:38.579
they... It doesn't matter. I also don't think

02:20:38.579 --> 02:20:41.399
anything like these people existed during Occupy.

02:20:41.899 --> 02:20:43.219
We're talking about the weather underground,

02:20:43.399 --> 02:20:47.899
like you said. This is like a Gen Xers view of

02:20:47.899 --> 02:20:50.899
the modern world through the lens of previous

02:20:50.899 --> 02:20:55.010
decades. revolutionary actions and stuff you're

02:20:55.010 --> 02:20:56.930
applying the weather underground thing to this

02:20:56.930 --> 02:21:00.069
also previous generations of obsession with race

02:21:00.069 --> 02:21:02.649
the whole like fetishization with black bodies

02:21:02.649 --> 02:21:04.670
that i think is the thing that i think is the

02:21:04.670 --> 02:21:08.149
thing that is also very relevant now it's just

02:21:08.149 --> 02:21:11.510
different because back then there was a real

02:21:11.510 --> 02:21:13.909
black revolutionary movement the weather underground

02:21:13.909 --> 02:21:18.739
was a was a bullshit knockoff of like Yeah, the

02:21:18.739 --> 02:21:20.440
true evolutionaries. The Black Panthers who actually

02:21:20.440 --> 02:21:23.100
were doing stuff and actually were killed off

02:21:23.100 --> 02:21:24.860
the way that Lockjaw killed off all the people

02:21:24.860 --> 02:21:26.479
in the first 75 or whatever. Like, the Black

02:21:26.479 --> 02:21:29.139
Panthers actually were really that. And then

02:21:29.139 --> 02:21:30.680
the Weather Underground was just, like, people

02:21:30.680 --> 02:21:33.420
like Bob who were like, we side with the blacks

02:21:33.420 --> 02:21:36.760
because we, whatever, and we'll blow up the thing

02:21:36.760 --> 02:21:39.360
and we'll, and do the, and, you know, and they

02:21:39.360 --> 02:21:41.559
fucking ruined the world and turned everything

02:21:41.559 --> 02:21:45.180
over to Nixon and, I don't know, but. They destroyed

02:21:45.180 --> 02:21:46.940
the revolution because they actually were just

02:21:46.940 --> 02:21:49.079
a bunch of fucking clowns who would rather fuck

02:21:49.079 --> 02:21:52.239
and whatever than... It's like the cringy shit

02:21:52.239 --> 02:21:54.739
in Eddington where the girl says like, oh, we're

02:21:54.739 --> 02:21:57.739
not even allies yet. We're like white traitors

02:21:57.739 --> 02:22:01.399
at best. Yeah, that is literally like Weather

02:22:01.399 --> 02:22:04.340
Underground conversation stuff. But it also literally

02:22:04.340 --> 02:22:07.840
is like nowadays conversation stuff too. It's

02:22:07.840 --> 02:22:09.799
just that it happens on Facebook now where you've

02:22:09.799 --> 02:22:13.940
got like teenage girls being like... We're having

02:22:13.940 --> 02:22:16.159
this conversation on stolen... And the system

02:22:16.159 --> 02:22:20.799
has properly castrated people. Eliminated the

02:22:20.799 --> 02:22:23.600
Black Panthers. Yeah, there wasn't a group like

02:22:23.600 --> 02:22:26.479
the Friends 75 blowing shit up in the 2010s.

02:22:27.559 --> 02:22:32.159
And to pretend there was is ridiculous, so we

02:22:32.159 --> 02:22:35.180
know that it's a joke and that the clownery is

02:22:35.180 --> 02:22:38.319
like, oh, well, what if there was a millennial

02:22:38.319 --> 02:22:42.069
revolution? It would be like this. It would be

02:22:42.069 --> 02:22:45.090
about nothing. It would be violent and about

02:22:45.090 --> 02:22:47.450
nothing and about just, like, not raising your

02:22:47.450 --> 02:22:50.129
kids and putting yourself first and, like, calling

02:22:50.129 --> 02:22:54.110
yourself jungle pussy and, like, that sort of

02:22:54.110 --> 02:22:56.649
thing. And then, like, if it survives to today,

02:22:56.850 --> 02:22:59.629
then, like... I think it does, like, I think

02:22:59.629 --> 02:23:02.010
through his perspective, being between worlds

02:23:02.010 --> 02:23:04.250
and being, like, older and wiser and looking

02:23:04.250 --> 02:23:07.850
back a little more and stuff, which seems to

02:23:07.850 --> 02:23:09.889
allow him to be a little bit more... positive

02:23:09.889 --> 02:23:14.309
um he is really connecting like what the old

02:23:14.309 --> 02:23:18.750
idea of woke was to the new idea of woke in some

02:23:18.750 --> 02:23:23.069
ways you know like it's yes it's um wokeness

02:23:23.069 --> 02:23:26.110
is the idea of wokeness is born from a really

02:23:26.110 --> 02:23:30.290
true concept of becoming aware of systems of

02:23:30.290 --> 02:23:33.549
oppression i like the idea of wokeness like we

02:23:33.549 --> 02:23:36.139
all want to be woke like getting woke about that

02:23:36.139 --> 02:23:39.680
shit is fun and it's exciting. And you feel like

02:23:39.680 --> 02:23:42.879
you've escaped the matrix or something, you know,

02:23:42.879 --> 02:23:44.959
it is waking up. It is being woke. It is being

02:23:44.959 --> 02:23:48.700
like, Oh, it's all these systems of power and

02:23:48.700 --> 02:23:52.020
control. Oh, it's all these things. Oh, like,

02:23:52.100 --> 02:23:54.799
let's like, Oh, I can see that. I can see the

02:23:54.799 --> 02:23:57.739
music now. I can see how all this is. It's Eddington.

02:23:57.760 --> 02:24:00.579
It's like that stepping back and seeing the whole

02:24:00.579 --> 02:24:03.600
macro. The invisible man, every time you take

02:24:03.600 --> 02:24:08.299
a step out is another bigger conspiracy. So it's

02:24:08.299 --> 02:24:12.079
connecting this old idea of woke to a bastardized

02:24:12.079 --> 02:24:15.700
new version of woke where it's all about just

02:24:15.700 --> 02:24:18.299
virtue signaling whether or not you care about

02:24:18.299 --> 02:24:21.799
a certain issue of a minority group or not. Right,

02:24:21.840 --> 02:24:26.100
right. And, you know, verbal aggressions. Microaggressions.

02:24:26.340 --> 02:24:28.399
You know, and all the other little... Creating

02:24:28.399 --> 02:24:31.659
problems out of basically... things that are

02:24:31.659 --> 02:24:35.239
unproblematic and misgendering your your daughter's

02:24:35.239 --> 02:24:38.159
friend yeah it's just like man all the other

02:24:38.159 --> 02:24:40.780
important issues you are basically just a tool

02:24:40.780 --> 02:24:44.340
of the powerful if you're gonna like um have

02:24:44.340 --> 02:24:47.239
fights with your neighbors about how they gendered

02:24:47.239 --> 02:24:50.540
you and whatever like you already are a tool

02:24:50.540 --> 02:24:52.559
of the power it's like so are we going to just

02:24:52.559 --> 02:24:56.680
argue about this or talk about how like All of

02:24:56.680 --> 02:24:59.959
this is just like an expression of anxiety and

02:24:59.959 --> 02:25:02.000
insecurity that you have no power in your life

02:25:02.000 --> 02:25:04.200
and that none of us do. And we should sort of

02:25:04.200 --> 02:25:07.319
like unite on this common ground that we are

02:25:07.319 --> 02:25:10.319
all being fucked over and divided against each

02:25:10.319 --> 02:25:13.500
other by these gigantic systems of power that

02:25:13.500 --> 02:25:16.440
are mostly run by tech oligarchs. Well, not in

02:25:16.440 --> 02:25:18.440
one battle after another. Yeah, well, one battle

02:25:18.440 --> 02:25:20.639
after another is not macro. It doesn't show the

02:25:20.639 --> 02:25:22.120
whole thing. It doesn't point the finger at the

02:25:22.120 --> 02:25:24.719
tech. There's no tech. There's no AI. Well, I...

02:25:25.309 --> 02:25:27.450
I mean, I think he does. I think he points a

02:25:27.450 --> 02:25:29.850
finger out somewhere. I mean, I think that largely

02:25:29.850 --> 02:25:34.069
it's racial in this case, right? Like you're

02:25:34.069 --> 02:25:35.469
talking about white supremacy and blah, blah,

02:25:35.469 --> 02:25:36.989
blah. Yeah, but like you said, I think that's

02:25:36.989 --> 02:25:38.229
a joke. It's not just the white supremacy. It's

02:25:38.229 --> 02:25:40.010
also the Mexicans who are all looking out for

02:25:40.010 --> 02:25:42.569
the Mexicans. And like the only people who are

02:25:42.569 --> 02:25:45.889
multiracial are the French 75 who like are just

02:25:45.889 --> 02:25:48.409
doing an interracial thing where like everybody's

02:25:48.409 --> 02:25:50.739
kind of. I don't know. It seems to be like a

02:25:50.739 --> 02:25:53.200
kink thing or something, right? The Jewish girls

02:25:53.200 --> 02:25:55.120
with the black guy and the black girls with the

02:25:55.120 --> 02:25:58.180
guy. Everybody's interracial in their thing.

02:25:58.219 --> 02:26:03.079
That is true, I think. Yeah, everybody's interracial

02:26:03.079 --> 02:26:06.200
or alone. But outside of that, the Mexicans and

02:26:06.200 --> 02:26:11.979
the whites, they're racially kind of looking

02:26:11.979 --> 02:26:15.879
out for their own. All the nuns stick together,

02:26:16.020 --> 02:26:19.100
but they're... The black nuns. Are they all black?

02:26:20.200 --> 02:26:22.659
No, they're not all black. There's a couple white

02:26:22.659 --> 02:26:25.680
ones in there, too, I think. Maybe they're just

02:26:25.680 --> 02:26:28.100
light -skinned. His daughter's one of them. His

02:26:28.100 --> 02:26:33.420
daughter's also in Licorice Pizza. She goes on

02:26:33.420 --> 02:26:39.260
the date with a dude to the restaurant. Oh, that's

02:26:39.260 --> 02:26:43.659
right. Yeah, but I think a lot of it is racially

02:26:43.659 --> 02:26:48.139
based in this movie. And I think, I mean, just

02:26:48.139 --> 02:26:50.700
like Eddington was this vision of America as

02:26:50.700 --> 02:26:53.959
sort of this everyone downstream of the tech

02:26:53.959 --> 02:26:56.340
overlords, I think this is kind of a depiction

02:26:56.340 --> 02:27:01.219
of America as a bunch of warring tribes, racial

02:27:01.219 --> 02:27:03.559
tribes and whatnot. I mean, the white supremacists

02:27:03.559 --> 02:27:05.559
are, yeah, they have this infrastructure and

02:27:05.559 --> 02:27:07.879
they maybe are the most powerful in this movie

02:27:07.879 --> 02:27:11.290
and whatnot. But the Mexicans are just bringing

02:27:11.290 --> 02:27:16.010
in Mexicans, too. Like, you know, it's not. Yeah,

02:27:16.190 --> 02:27:19.950
but I still think that, like, the way that whole

02:27:19.950 --> 02:27:23.129
Benicio Del Toro sequence goes down, the way

02:27:23.129 --> 02:27:25.229
Bob is kind of, like, a part of that family,

02:27:25.290 --> 02:27:27.309
even though he's not, like, a part of that family.

02:27:27.469 --> 02:27:29.030
You know what I mean? How they're just, like,

02:27:29.049 --> 02:27:32.950
there for him. How he's, like, earned the right

02:27:32.950 --> 02:27:39.069
to their assistance. Yeah. There's a lot of great

02:27:39.069 --> 02:27:41.629
details. A lot of people have pointed out that

02:27:41.629 --> 02:27:46.090
Leonardo DiCaprio does the Mexican whistle perfectly

02:27:46.090 --> 02:27:51.409
when he asks those guys for directions. I've

02:27:51.409 --> 02:27:55.590
noticed on social media, because actually for

02:27:55.590 --> 02:28:00.569
once, the response and conversation about this

02:28:00.569 --> 02:28:02.610
movie was pretty interesting on social media.

02:28:03.409 --> 02:28:05.709
People really liked it. This was kind of like

02:28:05.709 --> 02:28:07.510
a movie that broke through a little bit, and

02:28:07.510 --> 02:28:09.610
people were talking about it and getting excited

02:28:09.610 --> 02:28:12.590
about it, and people were noticing details of

02:28:12.590 --> 02:28:15.670
it and making little videos on Instagram about

02:28:15.670 --> 02:28:19.129
it and whatever. But this is only for people

02:28:19.129 --> 02:28:20.989
who actually know this stuff. There seems to

02:28:20.989 --> 02:28:25.329
be a real care and attention to detail and being

02:28:25.329 --> 02:28:30.809
honest and true about these little cultural...

02:28:31.639 --> 02:28:37.520
I know that all of the cultural references to

02:28:37.520 --> 02:28:42.600
60s groups and things like that were legit and

02:28:42.600 --> 02:28:46.100
stuff. So I thought that was interesting. I don't

02:28:46.100 --> 02:28:49.799
know. A lot of their weird speak and stuff is

02:28:49.799 --> 02:28:54.229
referencing. references to other ideas or quoting

02:28:54.229 --> 02:28:56.290
other things that just like they're the right

02:28:56.290 --> 02:28:58.049
quotes they're the right ideas like they're it

02:28:58.049 --> 02:29:01.190
yeah i just think it it it showed that like this

02:29:01.190 --> 02:29:03.649
movie has a lot of depth a lot of details that

02:29:03.649 --> 02:29:05.549
like just like i think i'm saying like if you

02:29:05.549 --> 02:29:08.020
know you know kind of white culture I, I feel

02:29:08.020 --> 02:29:09.579
like I saw a bunch of, if you know, you know,

02:29:09.719 --> 02:29:11.200
you know, I saw a bunch of, if you know, you

02:29:11.200 --> 02:29:13.959
know, stuff like only fucking white ass people

02:29:13.959 --> 02:29:16.780
who have done like white ass research into like

02:29:16.780 --> 02:29:18.879
the weather underground and shit, like would

02:29:18.879 --> 02:29:22.620
care about, um, but I'm sure there's, if you

02:29:22.620 --> 02:29:24.799
know, you know, for other things too. Yeah. Yeah.

02:29:25.059 --> 02:29:28.879
For black people, for Mexican people. Um, there's

02:29:28.879 --> 02:29:32.120
like little whistles in there, little signs that

02:29:32.120 --> 02:29:36.370
point to things and whatever. Um, but mostly

02:29:36.370 --> 02:29:38.649
just to care and attention of like wanting to

02:29:38.649 --> 02:29:43.090
be authentic and honest. I think that's something

02:29:43.090 --> 02:29:46.629
that this movie is much more delicate with and

02:29:46.629 --> 02:29:50.469
handles much better than Eddington. But like

02:29:50.469 --> 02:29:53.110
Eddington kind of gets a pass because it kind

02:29:53.110 --> 02:29:56.290
of sets up a, yeah, it kind of sets up a white

02:29:56.290 --> 02:29:59.549
town, almost predominantly white town where there's

02:29:59.549 --> 02:30:02.729
like one black guy and the mayor's Hispanic.

02:30:03.030 --> 02:30:06.959
And then there's the, the Native American tribe

02:30:06.959 --> 02:30:10.840
or whatever. But it feels just like it's not

02:30:10.840 --> 02:30:13.340
about COVID, it's not about race either. I mean,

02:30:13.420 --> 02:30:15.379
it's not really like a discussion of racial tension.

02:30:15.840 --> 02:30:19.239
I mean, racial tension is another tool in the

02:30:19.239 --> 02:30:22.500
toolkit of the overlords who are trying to turn

02:30:22.500 --> 02:30:25.340
people against each other to allow an AI takeover

02:30:25.340 --> 02:30:29.239
during its great reset. But I think there's something

02:30:29.239 --> 02:30:32.200
less delicate, more of like a hammer approach

02:30:32.200 --> 02:30:36.389
to be like, look at this nearly all white town

02:30:36.389 --> 02:30:39.290
losing their shit over this black man getting

02:30:39.290 --> 02:30:41.569
murdered in Minneapolis as if it's their struggle

02:30:41.569 --> 02:30:45.049
or their, or their mission. And then the one

02:30:45.049 --> 02:30:48.389
black guy in town is a cop who they're yelling

02:30:48.389 --> 02:30:52.569
at about not being like woke enough. So you're

02:30:52.569 --> 02:30:55.430
part of the, you're like part of the system of

02:30:55.430 --> 02:30:59.370
oppression. We know better than you. It's like,

02:31:00.329 --> 02:31:02.110
I don't know. Another stereotype about black

02:31:02.110 --> 02:31:04.010
people is that they're actually like the hardest

02:31:04.010 --> 02:31:07.989
to manipulate and brainwash. Right. Well, at

02:31:07.989 --> 02:31:11.250
least there's a more of a healthy skepticism

02:31:11.250 --> 02:31:14.190
in black culture. Much more healthy skepticism.

02:31:14.250 --> 02:31:17.610
Yeah. You know, vaccinations and things like

02:31:17.610 --> 02:31:20.069
that, where they actually were sterilized for

02:31:20.069 --> 02:31:22.649
many years by doctors who were pretending to

02:31:22.649 --> 02:31:24.829
be vaccinating them. So there is some sort of

02:31:24.829 --> 02:31:28.379
a reason to be paranoid. And an infrastructure

02:31:28.379 --> 02:31:32.620
that is skeptical and whatever, which is a thing

02:31:32.620 --> 02:31:34.760
that white people don't have. There you go. Yeah,

02:31:34.799 --> 02:31:38.799
there you go. I think that's just another piece

02:31:38.799 --> 02:31:40.639
of evidence that it kind of does matter what

02:31:40.639 --> 02:31:42.620
happened to people in their history and how that

02:31:42.620 --> 02:31:46.860
trains them to respond to current stimuli, which

02:31:46.860 --> 02:31:50.840
is also part of all of us and our traumas and

02:31:50.840 --> 02:31:53.879
how we are wired to respond to stimuli and behavior.

02:31:55.120 --> 02:31:57.319
the controlling of this behavior that the systems

02:31:57.319 --> 02:32:00.420
try to accomplish. I mean, I think all of this,

02:32:00.440 --> 02:32:03.360
like in, in kind of in the case of both movies,

02:32:03.399 --> 02:32:05.579
like a lot of this has to do with parenting.

02:32:06.139 --> 02:32:10.100
Yeah. Right. Like, I mean, parenting is a bigger

02:32:10.100 --> 02:32:13.799
part of one battle after another, but, uh, I

02:32:13.799 --> 02:32:16.680
think, I think that legacy and whatnot, and the

02:32:16.680 --> 02:32:21.159
idea in the lack of parenting happening in Eddington,

02:32:21.180 --> 02:32:24.079
I think is interesting. Yeah, and it's also a

02:32:24.079 --> 02:32:27.059
dark, cynical movie. There's like no real kids

02:32:27.059 --> 02:32:29.520
in it. There's teenagers, but they're like, yeah,

02:32:29.579 --> 02:32:31.879
very, very... I mean, they're being raised by

02:32:31.879 --> 02:32:35.799
their new parents, the AI overlords. Yeah, exactly.

02:32:36.819 --> 02:32:40.459
We're living in a, you know, post -childhood's

02:32:40.459 --> 02:32:44.399
end. paradigm where the parents are the internet

02:32:44.399 --> 02:32:47.920
and people's lives are not determined by the

02:32:47.920 --> 02:32:50.219
inputs that their parents gave them but instead

02:32:50.219 --> 02:32:53.100
by the inputs given them by the AI overlords

02:32:53.100 --> 02:32:55.299
I think what's interesting in one battle after

02:32:55.299 --> 02:32:58.200
another is that Bob at least isolated himself

02:32:58.200 --> 02:33:00.579
from the internet being off the grid to be able

02:33:00.579 --> 02:33:04.059
to raise a kid to raise a really good kid he

02:33:04.059 --> 02:33:06.700
raised a kid with emotions who was like a sweet

02:33:06.700 --> 02:33:10.370
person and today You know, he did that in modern

02:33:10.370 --> 02:33:14.129
times. It's almost as out of place as the weather

02:33:14.129 --> 02:33:16.989
underground or something. It's a difficult thing.

02:33:18.370 --> 02:33:21.309
Oh, yeah, Willa is such a beautiful sweetheart.

02:33:21.909 --> 02:33:25.010
And comparing her to the kids in Eddington is

02:33:25.010 --> 02:33:27.329
just ridiculous. They're totally manipulatable

02:33:27.329 --> 02:33:31.030
pieces of shit. They're total sheeple who are

02:33:31.030 --> 02:33:33.409
looking for, like, the social gratification and

02:33:33.409 --> 02:33:36.129
whatever. I mean, the mayor's son is a total

02:33:36.129 --> 02:33:40.129
asshole. But, yeah, you're right. Like, the lack

02:33:40.129 --> 02:33:43.069
of parenting, the vacuum of parenting in that

02:33:43.069 --> 02:33:46.069
movie is what stands out more than any example

02:33:46.069 --> 02:33:48.149
of parenting. And the new parent, you know, solid

02:33:48.149 --> 02:33:50.930
gold magic cup is what's actually behind it all.

02:33:50.930 --> 02:33:53.809
Yeah, exactly. And it seems to highlight, like,

02:33:53.870 --> 02:33:56.530
the failures of parenting and parents raping

02:33:56.530 --> 02:33:59.850
their children and not giving a shit about what

02:33:59.850 --> 02:34:01.770
their kids are doing as long as it's not hurting

02:34:01.770 --> 02:34:07.530
their political career. Whatever. That is there.

02:34:07.610 --> 02:34:10.290
I didn't even think about that. And that is a

02:34:10.290 --> 02:34:13.149
huge difference between these two movies. One

02:34:13.149 --> 02:34:16.909
battle after another depicts a good dad. It depicts

02:34:16.909 --> 02:34:21.309
a good dad. One good dad. And Sensei. Sensei's

02:34:21.309 --> 02:34:25.229
our other dad. He's another great dad. He's awesome,

02:34:25.350 --> 02:34:29.229
dude. They're so fucking... That section of the

02:34:29.229 --> 02:34:32.489
movie is just so fucking good, dude. Benicio

02:34:32.489 --> 02:34:35.979
Del Toro is just like... effortlessly killing

02:34:35.979 --> 02:34:40.680
it yeah in a way that's like that I don't know

02:34:40.680 --> 02:34:42.420
just like everything about that sequence his

02:34:42.420 --> 02:34:46.639
vibe a few small beers his chill his a few small

02:34:46.639 --> 02:34:50.420
beers one of the best do that yeah a few small

02:34:50.420 --> 02:34:52.139
beers one of the funniest lines in the history

02:34:52.139 --> 02:34:54.479
of filmmaking and it's just one of the greatest

02:34:54.479 --> 02:34:56.860
it's just a line it doesn't it's not a good you

02:34:56.860 --> 02:34:59.639
know what I mean if you if I came up with that

02:34:59.639 --> 02:35:03.829
you'd be like okay great You have to see Benicio

02:35:03.829 --> 02:35:06.450
Del Toro do it at this point in this movie with

02:35:06.450 --> 02:35:10.409
this behind. It's so perfect. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:35:10.670 --> 02:35:12.729
Just because we're comparing these, that kind

02:35:12.729 --> 02:35:15.170
of highlights what I was saying before. I don't

02:35:15.170 --> 02:35:18.430
think Ari Aster writes lines like that. I don't

02:35:18.430 --> 02:35:20.870
know that there's stuff like that. You know who

02:35:20.870 --> 02:35:22.350
else doesn't write lines like that, though, is

02:35:22.350 --> 02:35:25.379
Paul Thomas Anderson. I think that Benicio del

02:35:25.379 --> 02:35:29.100
Toro probably wrote that. You're right. I think

02:35:29.100 --> 02:35:31.239
that Paul Thomas Anderson is a guy who loves

02:35:31.239 --> 02:35:33.799
Altman and he's just letting these people do

02:35:33.799 --> 02:35:38.139
stuff. And he, I don't know how he does it in

02:35:38.139 --> 02:35:41.340
a way beyond what I've seen with Altman. Like

02:35:41.340 --> 02:35:43.700
controls. So many moments. Maybe in editing or

02:35:43.700 --> 02:35:46.780
something, but like it does not feel like a fucking

02:35:46.780 --> 02:35:50.229
around thing ever. But the idea that Benicio

02:35:50.229 --> 02:35:52.709
del Toro came up with all that and they just

02:35:52.709 --> 02:35:55.209
went with it is like, oh, it was a fucking around

02:35:55.209 --> 02:35:57.930
thing. And then you just made it look like it

02:35:57.930 --> 02:36:00.110
wasn't because you actually pulled it all together.

02:36:00.149 --> 02:36:03.149
Like, it's insane what this guy does, you know?

02:36:03.309 --> 02:36:05.409
Well, and then when you really look at it, you

02:36:05.409 --> 02:36:08.229
realize, like, wait, it kind of is just fucking

02:36:08.229 --> 02:36:11.030
around. Like, how much time is spent on these

02:36:11.030 --> 02:36:13.049
characters just, like, bumbling from one location

02:36:13.049 --> 02:36:16.149
to the next and then having an argument on the

02:36:16.149 --> 02:36:19.879
phone about passwords? and whatever, you know,

02:36:19.879 --> 02:36:22.059
and like... Yeah, but if that's not the greatest

02:36:22.059 --> 02:36:24.899
depiction of a millennial revolutionary, I don't

02:36:24.899 --> 02:36:28.700
know. Yeah, it's almost like annoyingly obvious

02:36:28.700 --> 02:36:31.959
and stuff. Like, I think if I was going to make

02:36:31.959 --> 02:36:33.620
one critique of the movie, this is something

02:36:33.620 --> 02:36:35.680
that, like, didn't sit with me as well the first

02:36:35.680 --> 02:36:38.200
time. And the second time, I was more with it.

02:36:38.219 --> 02:36:39.879
It was just like, I like all these kind of just

02:36:39.879 --> 02:36:42.340
over -the -top clownish expressions. It's kind

02:36:42.340 --> 02:36:45.139
of like, it's all on point. But... Some of that

02:36:45.139 --> 02:36:48.059
did feel very, like... Like, what gender am I

02:36:48.059 --> 02:36:50.280
supposed to call them? Yeah, like, some of that

02:36:50.280 --> 02:36:54.200
just felt really, like, signally and forced in

02:36:54.200 --> 02:36:55.840
a way that Eddington doesn't, because that's

02:36:55.840 --> 02:36:59.079
just the whole movie. It's, like, part of the

02:36:59.079 --> 02:37:01.600
landscape in Eddington is just, like, all the

02:37:01.600 --> 02:37:05.829
obvious naming. Yeah, I think it goes throughout

02:37:05.829 --> 02:37:07.690
Bob's character the whole movie, though. Him

02:37:07.690 --> 02:37:11.030
calling everybody SA or bro or whatever. No,

02:37:11.090 --> 02:37:14.270
sure, sure, sure. It stood out to me a little

02:37:14.270 --> 02:37:19.510
bit more. Allyism in a pre -ally kind of paradigm.

02:37:19.809 --> 02:37:22.690
You know what I mean? In the end, I like the

02:37:22.690 --> 02:37:25.469
point it makes. I like that even the revolutionaries

02:37:25.469 --> 02:37:29.579
are hung up on... code words and safe spaces

02:37:29.579 --> 02:37:31.860
and just like all this kind of stupid bullshit

02:37:31.860 --> 02:37:33.760
it's like how can you guys even be revolutionaries

02:37:33.760 --> 02:37:37.379
anymore the point is they're not yeah what the

02:37:37.379 --> 02:37:41.190
hell is this um it's not a real thing The only

02:37:41.190 --> 02:37:44.510
thing that's a real thing is the, I mean, this

02:37:44.510 --> 02:37:49.090
is like the hyper -normalization, the whole point

02:37:49.090 --> 02:37:51.110
at the end of Adam Curtis' hyper -normalization

02:37:51.110 --> 02:37:53.989
that he comes down on is like, oh, it's all collectivism

02:37:53.989 --> 02:37:57.209
is the only, individualism doesn't work in a

02:37:57.209 --> 02:37:59.770
democracy. The only thing that works is collectivism.

02:38:00.110 --> 02:38:03.530
It's the idea of becoming a part of a demographic

02:38:03.530 --> 02:38:07.549
group. And identifying with a movement, identifying

02:38:07.549 --> 02:38:11.049
with something like that, you eliminate your

02:38:11.049 --> 02:38:14.370
personal identity for the group identity sort

02:38:14.370 --> 02:38:17.930
of thing. And that's what Lockjaw is doing. That's

02:38:17.930 --> 02:38:19.909
what the French 75, like, and that's, that's

02:38:19.909 --> 02:38:22.750
definitely what the Mexican immigrants are like.

02:38:22.829 --> 02:38:26.809
These are all, these are all our group helping

02:38:26.809 --> 02:38:32.079
us against the system things, you know. The Mexicans

02:38:32.079 --> 02:38:33.739
are the only group that I feel like they have

02:38:33.739 --> 02:38:35.860
less of a choice, like that just is their culture

02:38:35.860 --> 02:38:39.540
and they're in hiding and like their life is

02:38:39.540 --> 02:38:43.299
the result of like the political and legal and

02:38:43.299 --> 02:38:47.440
economic situation of reality that they experience.

02:38:48.639 --> 02:38:50.479
Whereas like, I don't know, Friends 75 feels

02:38:50.479 --> 02:38:52.500
like their choices are a group that banded together

02:38:52.500 --> 02:38:55.100
and chose to do all this stuff and locked all

02:38:55.100 --> 02:38:58.680
as a choice and decides that he wants to pursue.

02:38:59.340 --> 02:39:01.559
the Christmas Adventurers Club or whatever. I

02:39:01.559 --> 02:39:03.700
don't know. I kind of just feel like the Mexican

02:39:03.700 --> 02:39:06.420
immigrants are like... They're immigrants, so

02:39:06.420 --> 02:39:08.920
they're in the midst of the choice that they're

02:39:08.920 --> 02:39:11.379
making to leave one country and come to another

02:39:11.379 --> 02:39:15.159
country. There's something about the whole sequence

02:39:15.159 --> 02:39:21.159
that feels really homey and warm and just the

02:39:21.159 --> 02:39:25.659
allyship between Bob and them and whatever. It

02:39:25.659 --> 02:39:28.610
just feels really like... when Bob gets all excited

02:39:28.610 --> 02:39:31.229
and yells Viva La Revolucion and stuff, there's

02:39:31.229 --> 02:39:34.030
something just so heartwarming and endearing

02:39:34.030 --> 02:39:36.750
about it. And then especially that he doesn't

02:39:36.750 --> 02:39:38.969
get out of there and he gets caught, and then

02:39:38.969 --> 02:39:41.090
Benicio Del Toro has to fucking break him out

02:39:41.090 --> 02:39:44.329
again. And they get in the car and they take

02:39:44.329 --> 02:39:49.190
a selfie and have a beer or whatever. I don't

02:39:49.190 --> 02:39:51.250
know. I just feel like I haven't seen something

02:39:51.250 --> 02:39:54.309
that endearing and cute and hopeful in a while.

02:39:54.389 --> 02:39:56.790
I don't know. It was beautiful. It was beautiful

02:39:56.790 --> 02:40:00.190
watching friends help friends, like, beat the

02:40:00.190 --> 02:40:01.989
system a little bit, get away from the cops,

02:40:02.149 --> 02:40:05.190
like, you know, just escape the grasp of the

02:40:05.190 --> 02:40:07.489
law and get on the run, just nick of time or

02:40:07.489 --> 02:40:11.370
whatever. I agree. I agree. But I do think it

02:40:11.370 --> 02:40:14.229
is interesting that, like, this is a movie where

02:40:14.229 --> 02:40:17.149
we've got the one revolutionary group, like,

02:40:17.149 --> 02:40:19.909
the one underground society. And then we've also

02:40:19.909 --> 02:40:22.209
just got like a whole nother underground revolutionary

02:40:22.209 --> 02:40:24.209
group that's not connected to either of those

02:40:24.209 --> 02:40:27.110
other two that just happens to pop in for a minute.

02:40:27.149 --> 02:40:28.950
And it's like, oh, it's because this is the other

02:40:28.950 --> 02:40:30.670
race that we haven't represented so far. Well,

02:40:30.709 --> 02:40:32.829
then they've got one, too. Like, you know what

02:40:32.829 --> 02:40:36.770
I mean? It's it kind of it just seems like, OK,

02:40:36.850 --> 02:40:38.510
well, that's what it is. It's like there's the

02:40:38.510 --> 02:40:40.190
blacks versus the whites and then there's the

02:40:40.190 --> 02:40:42.209
Mexicans versus the whites. And there's the and

02:40:42.209 --> 02:40:44.450
Bob is going in between all of them. And he's

02:40:44.450 --> 02:40:48.520
like, except not the whites, I guess. But. I

02:40:48.520 --> 02:40:51.959
don't know. There's something interesting to

02:40:51.959 --> 02:40:55.799
me that you'd go with that idea. It does seem

02:40:55.799 --> 02:40:58.340
that way. It does seem more motivated by racial

02:40:58.340 --> 02:41:03.200
segregation. And that's a positive thing in some

02:41:03.200 --> 02:41:05.579
cases. It doesn't feel positive with the whites,

02:41:05.659 --> 02:41:07.440
obviously, but it does feel positive with the

02:41:07.440 --> 02:41:11.049
Mexicans, right? And maybe that feels positive

02:41:11.049 --> 02:41:12.889
for the French 75, but the French 75 is more

02:41:12.889 --> 02:41:16.069
multiracial and it is just destructive because

02:41:16.069 --> 02:41:18.649
all it's doing is just blowing stuff up, robbing

02:41:18.649 --> 02:41:23.989
banks and freeing people at large. That is also

02:41:23.989 --> 02:41:27.590
what privileged people would do. We don't really

02:41:27.590 --> 02:41:29.729
know a lot about their backgrounds, but like

02:41:29.729 --> 02:41:33.030
historically speaking. Most groups like that

02:41:33.030 --> 02:41:36.010
come from the elite class. Most revolutionaries

02:41:36.010 --> 02:41:38.450
come from the elite class. That's right. It's

02:41:38.450 --> 02:41:41.829
like pretty, yeah, it's pretty, they're like,

02:41:41.889 --> 02:41:46.170
you know, suburban kids. Yeah. They're exactly

02:41:46.170 --> 02:41:48.930
the type of people like the girl in Eddington

02:41:48.930 --> 02:41:51.969
with their mask falling off their face being

02:41:51.969 --> 02:41:55.209
like, we're having this conversation on stolen

02:41:55.209 --> 02:41:58.989
land and whatever. It's just that they then have

02:41:58.989 --> 02:42:04.340
guns and. You know, blah, blah, blah. Man, land

02:42:04.340 --> 02:42:06.540
acknowledgement stuff is real out here, man,

02:42:06.639 --> 02:42:09.299
let me tell you. It's very weird. It's pretty

02:42:09.299 --> 02:42:13.780
obnoxious. Yeah. Not because I want to deny genocide

02:42:13.780 --> 02:42:16.579
and, like, things that happened, but, like, dude,

02:42:16.639 --> 02:42:19.159
do you know how many, like, different landlords

02:42:19.159 --> 02:42:21.979
have owned this area over the thousands of years

02:42:21.979 --> 02:42:24.899
it's been here? Where do you stop with your land

02:42:24.899 --> 02:42:28.139
recognition? My stepdad, like, made a... made

02:42:28.139 --> 02:42:30.799
a joke about this once, but he's giving a land

02:42:30.799 --> 02:42:34.079
acknowledgement and saying, I'd like to make

02:42:34.079 --> 02:42:35.799
an acknowledgement to this land that we stand

02:42:35.799 --> 02:42:39.420
on that belonged to the so -and -so people, and

02:42:39.420 --> 02:42:42.780
then the so -and -so people before that. And

02:42:42.780 --> 02:42:45.399
then the so -and -so people before that. Right,

02:42:45.420 --> 02:42:47.239
right, right. And then the so -and -so people

02:42:47.239 --> 02:42:50.520
before that. We took this land from the Apache

02:42:50.520 --> 02:42:55.979
who raped and murdered the Iroquois who, you

02:42:55.979 --> 02:42:58.340
know, pissed on the graves of the, you know,

02:42:58.340 --> 02:43:00.559
whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you. It's like

02:43:00.559 --> 02:43:02.360
the land acknowledgement is not an acknowledgement

02:43:02.360 --> 02:43:05.200
of the reality of history. It's just an acknowledgement

02:43:05.200 --> 02:43:10.459
of the, like, pain of certain people who are

02:43:10.459 --> 02:43:13.489
alive right now. You're just bending the knee

02:43:13.489 --> 02:43:17.930
to modern resistance libs. Yeah. Yeah, it's the

02:43:17.930 --> 02:43:22.229
least you can do. The least you could do. Acknowledge.

02:43:24.129 --> 02:43:27.750
Yeah, I guess we might be falling into a kind

02:43:27.750 --> 02:43:30.190
of stray thoughts realm at this point, but one

02:43:30.190 --> 02:43:35.430
of the things I noticed about one battle after

02:43:35.430 --> 02:43:37.610
another from a structure point of view is its

02:43:37.610 --> 02:43:40.680
subversiveness. Obviously, yeah, yeah. Again,

02:43:40.840 --> 02:43:42.739
like Altman. I thought it was... He's just taking

02:43:42.739 --> 02:43:44.739
it down and re -subverting it. Yeah. I thought

02:43:44.739 --> 02:43:46.180
it was hard to predict what was going to happen

02:43:46.180 --> 02:43:49.680
in the movie. Yeah. And it, like, did a lot of

02:43:49.680 --> 02:43:52.719
setups that didn't pay off in the way that you

02:43:52.719 --> 02:43:55.899
would have expected. Mm -hmm. Like, you said

02:43:55.899 --> 02:43:58.299
the thing about the main character, how, like,

02:43:58.319 --> 02:44:01.120
Bob kind of feels like the main character. But,

02:44:01.200 --> 02:44:04.000
like... That he doesn't do anything for the whole

02:44:04.000 --> 02:44:06.319
movie? He doesn't do anything. And a lot of people

02:44:06.319 --> 02:44:09.260
have noticed this. I was watching this with Elise,

02:44:09.540 --> 02:44:14.520
and at the very end, Willa is being chased by

02:44:14.520 --> 02:44:15.799
the guy and gets out of the car and stuff. And

02:44:15.799 --> 02:44:17.979
then she's like, you know, she's doing a pretty

02:44:17.979 --> 02:44:20.040
fucking good job of handling this on her own

02:44:20.040 --> 02:44:22.159
without daddy's help and stuff. I'm like, yeah.

02:44:22.920 --> 02:44:25.799
I started tearing up and stuff. I was like, yeah,

02:44:25.860 --> 02:44:28.670
that's because he raced her. That's because he

02:44:28.670 --> 02:44:30.969
raised her, dude. He did a good job. He prepared

02:44:30.969 --> 02:44:33.809
her for this and she's doing it. And that's incredible.

02:44:34.270 --> 02:44:38.510
That's being a father. And it's working. He did

02:44:38.510 --> 02:44:42.670
it. Literally the most important thing that he

02:44:42.670 --> 02:44:45.729
did, it happened in time you didn't see. Yeah,

02:44:45.729 --> 02:44:48.389
it happened outside the movie. But you do see

02:44:48.389 --> 02:44:51.049
their interactions and him acknowledging when

02:44:51.049 --> 02:44:53.510
he is in the wrong and not trying to be... You

02:44:53.510 --> 02:44:55.530
see their interactions and that he's learned

02:44:55.530 --> 02:44:59.709
and that he is a good father. And he did it.

02:45:00.450 --> 02:45:05.090
That to me is such a... And he did it, yeah.

02:45:05.190 --> 02:45:08.770
He makes it just in time exactly when she needs

02:45:08.770 --> 02:45:12.569
him. Yeah. And she doesn't know who he is, too.

02:45:13.469 --> 02:45:15.510
She's like, who are you? Because you're not my

02:45:15.510 --> 02:45:18.079
dad. You're not like... Like, I don't, I don't

02:45:18.079 --> 02:45:19.959
even like, are you my hand? Like what? And he's

02:45:19.959 --> 02:45:22.200
just like, I'm your dad. I mean, she wasn't even,

02:45:22.260 --> 02:45:25.379
she wasn't even entirely, she wasn't even entirely

02:45:25.379 --> 02:45:27.459
convinced that anything your dad was saying about

02:45:27.459 --> 02:45:30.100
the past was real, that there like was anybody

02:45:30.100 --> 02:45:32.500
that would be looking for them or like, like

02:45:32.500 --> 02:45:35.180
it all seemed like a fucking joke and she didn't

02:45:35.180 --> 02:45:39.340
take him seriously. But who she is, like he,

02:45:39.399 --> 02:45:42.520
he raised her and she was prepared. Yeah. And

02:45:42.520 --> 02:45:45.829
sensei. Yes. Yeah. That's like, that's a part

02:45:45.829 --> 02:45:49.110
of her sensei for sure. Big part of it. Yeah.

02:45:49.950 --> 02:45:53.469
But it's actually, it's so good, dude. It's like,

02:45:53.510 --> 02:45:57.190
it's such a, a catharsis out of left field. Not

02:45:57.190 --> 02:45:58.870
this, not the catharsis you thought you were

02:45:58.870 --> 02:46:03.170
going to experience, but like totally just, totally

02:46:03.170 --> 02:46:06.709
just hits you with this. Oh yeah. Like this is

02:46:06.709 --> 02:46:11.450
Willa. Like Willa is capable. She knows what

02:46:11.450 --> 02:46:15.350
to do. She is smart. She is empathetic. She is

02:46:15.350 --> 02:46:20.469
aware. This guy raised a good child. Realizing

02:46:20.469 --> 02:46:22.469
that in the end there, that's the catharsis.

02:46:22.510 --> 02:46:24.430
It's just like, oh my God, he did such a good

02:46:24.430 --> 02:46:28.530
job. Oh my God, they prepared her for the fucking

02:46:28.530 --> 02:46:32.209
world. Yeah, exactly. They actually put someone

02:46:32.209 --> 02:46:36.069
out there who could do some good. I don't know.

02:46:36.450 --> 02:46:39.250
But then that brings us to... To, I guess, the

02:46:39.250 --> 02:46:42.389
other ending. Yeah, so... With the letter. I

02:46:42.389 --> 02:46:44.129
guess we have to get back to the letter, yeah.

02:46:44.389 --> 02:46:46.489
I mean, so we kind of talked about how we thought

02:46:46.489 --> 02:46:51.090
it was a nothing burger. But is that by design?

02:46:52.469 --> 02:46:57.309
Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think Bob wrote

02:46:57.309 --> 02:47:01.190
the letter. Yeah. Or at the very least, it doesn't

02:47:01.190 --> 02:47:03.850
matter. No, I think Bob wrote the letter. It

02:47:03.850 --> 02:47:05.129
sounds like the type of thing Bob would have

02:47:05.129 --> 02:47:08.829
written. There's no reason that, like, how would

02:47:08.829 --> 02:47:12.930
she have gotten the letter to anyone in the Resistance

02:47:12.930 --> 02:47:16.229
to get to Bob? He doesn't know whether or not

02:47:16.229 --> 02:47:18.889
Profitia is alive. There's nothing in the movie

02:47:18.889 --> 02:47:21.190
to let us know whether or not Profitia is alive

02:47:21.190 --> 02:47:23.389
or that there's any hope of her coming back.

02:47:23.790 --> 02:47:26.950
And Profitia has no interest in coming back.

02:47:27.010 --> 02:47:29.409
She left that kid. She doesn't care about the

02:47:29.409 --> 02:47:32.520
kid. this is a letter pretending that she cares

02:47:32.520 --> 02:47:34.700
about a kid that she had no interest in ever

02:47:34.700 --> 02:47:37.159
and i don't think it was just a postpartum thing

02:47:37.159 --> 02:47:39.700
i think it's also the shame of it being someone

02:47:39.700 --> 02:47:42.100
else's kid and whatever like there's a lot but

02:47:42.100 --> 02:47:45.940
he's creating the fantasy that she has some regret

02:47:45.940 --> 02:47:49.340
about that exactly maybe she does maybe she doesn't

02:47:49.340 --> 02:47:52.120
but we don't see that but like that would explain

02:47:52.120 --> 02:47:54.000
the banality of the letter because because he

02:47:54.000 --> 02:47:56.819
knows nothing all he can do is like make her

02:47:56.819 --> 02:48:00.260
express lazy regret Well, that and is written

02:48:00.260 --> 02:48:04.260
by a guy who's stoned all the time for 40 years.

02:48:04.379 --> 02:48:07.319
It's like, you know, it's not, he's just like,

02:48:07.479 --> 02:48:10.760
it sounds, it's the banality of just like a guy

02:48:10.760 --> 02:48:13.920
who's like a sweet, good guy, but like doesn't

02:48:13.920 --> 02:48:17.239
have that much going on upstairs. Well, I don't

02:48:17.239 --> 02:48:19.420
think being, I don't think being a stoner means

02:48:19.420 --> 02:48:22.319
you have not a lot going on. No, I know. I know.

02:48:22.360 --> 02:48:26.440
But he's, he's, he doesn't have a lot going on.

02:48:27.430 --> 02:48:29.469
I don't think he had a lot going on to begin

02:48:29.469 --> 02:48:32.649
with. No, he didn't. He's not a thinker. He was

02:48:32.649 --> 02:48:37.329
doing it for the pussy. He can make bombs. And

02:48:37.329 --> 02:48:39.270
I think that he says many times throughout the

02:48:39.270 --> 02:48:42.010
movie, I've destroyed my mind with drugs for

02:48:42.010 --> 02:48:45.989
20 years and whatnot. He is kind of past his

02:48:45.989 --> 02:48:48.690
sort of, you know. And I think there's like,

02:48:48.770 --> 02:48:51.770
I don't think that means that he's dumb. I think

02:48:51.770 --> 02:48:55.510
that, you know, like Paul Thomas Anderson is

02:48:55.510 --> 02:48:58.329
a guy that I'm sure did tons and tons of cocaine

02:48:58.329 --> 02:49:00.430
for a long time. And I don't think he still is.

02:49:00.569 --> 02:49:02.690
I'm sure at some point he had to get through

02:49:02.690 --> 02:49:06.090
that probably during Punch Drunk Love. But it's,

02:49:06.090 --> 02:49:09.850
you know. Hard to say exactly, but I think that

02:49:09.850 --> 02:49:13.010
it's not just him saying, if you use drugs, then

02:49:13.010 --> 02:49:15.049
your mind is destroyed forever. It's like, no,

02:49:15.069 --> 02:49:17.250
obviously he's working at the height of his thing,

02:49:17.309 --> 02:49:18.370
and he was working at the height of his thing

02:49:18.370 --> 02:49:22.190
when he was on the drug, whatever. But I think

02:49:22.190 --> 02:49:23.590
that part of the thing is like, yeah, no, this

02:49:23.590 --> 02:49:26.110
is a guy living after the thing, and he's not

02:49:26.110 --> 02:49:29.850
really fully... I mean, he's burned out. It's

02:49:29.850 --> 02:49:33.010
a thing. He's a burned out guy. Yeah. I mean,

02:49:33.030 --> 02:49:37.270
I relate. Hmm. I relate to the kind of self -hatred

02:49:37.270 --> 02:49:41.649
he has. Yeah, totally. And just the combination

02:49:41.649 --> 02:49:45.010
of having a lot of heart and caring about people,

02:49:45.190 --> 02:49:47.889
but not really caring about yourself. Yeah. And

02:49:47.889 --> 02:49:52.149
he made Willa a great person, but she's the one

02:49:52.149 --> 02:49:55.430
parenting him at the beginning. Yeah. He's the

02:49:55.430 --> 02:49:57.829
one who doesn't want to change. Yeah, it's true.

02:49:58.090 --> 02:50:00.209
But he does make it, too. I do think that him

02:50:00.209 --> 02:50:03.989
and Profitia's relationship, I think of as this...

02:50:04.409 --> 02:50:07.829
mistake this weird like he's if you're attracted

02:50:07.829 --> 02:50:10.350
to perfidia beverly hills then you are either

02:50:10.350 --> 02:50:13.049
fetishizing her for something or you're attracted

02:50:13.049 --> 02:50:16.569
to something evil like that's it you know lockjaw

02:50:16.569 --> 02:50:19.469
is One of those two. And I think that Bob is

02:50:19.469 --> 02:50:21.889
one of those two as well. I don't see their relationship,

02:50:22.010 --> 02:50:24.290
their love as something that's pure and beautiful

02:50:24.290 --> 02:50:27.209
and whatever. But I do see his love for Willa

02:50:27.209 --> 02:50:29.610
as that. I think that is pure and beautiful.

02:50:29.829 --> 02:50:32.370
That is a real thing. Oh, yeah. That thing that

02:50:32.370 --> 02:50:34.329
he fosters through the, I mean, mostly through

02:50:34.329 --> 02:50:36.309
the part of the film that we don't see. That

02:50:36.309 --> 02:50:40.379
is something really valuable. And that makes

02:50:40.379 --> 02:50:42.780
his character somebody who is better than Lockjaw.

02:50:42.899 --> 02:50:45.459
Like otherwise, I don't think him just as a revolutionary

02:50:45.459 --> 02:50:48.479
who's in love with Profitia is any better than

02:50:48.479 --> 02:50:52.139
like the evil G -Man who's in love with Profitia.

02:50:52.260 --> 02:50:53.780
The whole beginning of the movie, I see them

02:50:53.780 --> 02:50:56.040
almost as mirrors and everybody's kind of doing

02:50:56.040 --> 02:50:59.500
this for their love of black asses and fun and

02:50:59.500 --> 02:51:02.420
violence and revolution and feeling sexy and

02:51:02.420 --> 02:51:05.299
whatever. Well, another subversion is how the

02:51:05.299 --> 02:51:07.479
main villain of the movie only interacts with

02:51:07.479 --> 02:51:10.100
Bob. One time, near the beginning of the movie,

02:51:10.219 --> 02:51:11.920
he's in a grocery store and he just comes up

02:51:11.920 --> 02:51:14.479
to him and says, I like black women. Yeah, yeah,

02:51:14.479 --> 02:51:17.520
yeah. You like black women? I love them. And

02:51:17.520 --> 02:51:20.399
he looks really disturbed. Yeah. And then there's

02:51:20.399 --> 02:51:22.180
not a scene where they come back together in

02:51:22.180 --> 02:51:24.659
the end and fight or anything. He knows who Lockjaw

02:51:24.659 --> 02:51:27.979
is. That's what I was going to like, continuing

02:51:27.979 --> 02:51:30.739
about the subversions. It has so many moments

02:51:30.739 --> 02:51:32.840
like that where it's like, Bob shows up, he's

02:51:32.840 --> 02:51:34.780
got him in his sights in a sniper rifle, misses

02:51:34.780 --> 02:51:39.159
the shot. Oh well, have to keep going. there's

02:51:39.159 --> 02:51:41.639
so many things that happen twice, false starts.

02:51:42.079 --> 02:51:44.020
I mean, him falling off the fucking roof and

02:51:44.020 --> 02:51:45.700
just getting thrown in the junk tank and having

02:51:45.700 --> 02:51:48.739
to get busted out again. So many things in this

02:51:48.739 --> 02:51:51.840
movie can be described as superfluous, things

02:51:51.840 --> 02:51:54.540
that don't go anywhere, but, like, oh, man, the

02:51:54.540 --> 02:51:56.479
journey matters in this movie so much. Like,

02:51:56.479 --> 02:51:59.040
there's so much about that for some reason. Totally.

02:51:59.180 --> 02:52:01.299
And, yeah, that he doesn't show up in the nick

02:52:01.299 --> 02:52:02.920
of time to save her. She has to save herself

02:52:02.920 --> 02:52:06.899
and how locked up. doesn't die when he gets shot

02:52:06.899 --> 02:52:08.659
in the face and gets in that bad car accident.

02:52:08.680 --> 02:52:13.040
He dies pathetically in a fucking madman office.

02:52:13.700 --> 02:52:17.280
Yeah, like Don Draper's corner office. No, but

02:52:17.280 --> 02:52:20.840
it's not. It's not. It's like, where the fuck

02:52:20.840 --> 02:52:25.079
is it? Is it in New Mexico? It seems like some

02:52:25.079 --> 02:52:28.860
totally nowhere fucking town. It's not like a

02:52:28.860 --> 02:52:31.680
New York skyscraper fucking office. It's like...

02:52:31.959 --> 02:52:33.659
I don't know. But I have no idea what that office

02:52:33.659 --> 02:52:35.379
is or what he'd be doing there or whatever. It's

02:52:35.379 --> 02:52:36.659
such a weird, surreal thing. This felt like the

02:52:36.659 --> 02:52:39.180
Ikea version of Don Draper's office, you know?

02:52:39.239 --> 02:52:42.219
It felt like the very cheap, like... This is

02:52:42.219 --> 02:52:44.020
the thing that was, like, promised to you all

02:52:44.020 --> 02:52:45.959
this time, and it's not like a gold -plated office

02:52:45.959 --> 02:52:47.680
or whatever. It feels like bullshit. I know,

02:52:47.739 --> 02:52:49.500
I know. It makes it feel even more pathetic.

02:52:49.639 --> 02:52:51.799
It's not like a big, beautiful desk that's like,

02:52:51.879 --> 02:52:53.940
oh, fuck, look at that desk, like Don Draper's.

02:52:54.020 --> 02:52:56.840
It's just a desk and, like, a chair. It feels

02:52:56.840 --> 02:52:58.340
dead. There's no one there. It's, like, not a

02:52:58.340 --> 02:53:00.739
thriving office or something. What even is this

02:53:00.739 --> 02:53:03.020
place? This is your tomb. They just led you to

02:53:03.020 --> 02:53:05.500
your tomb. But he's so happy with it. He's so

02:53:05.500 --> 02:53:08.340
satisfied with it is the banality of his character.

02:53:08.620 --> 02:53:11.430
That shows who he deserves. What do you get?

02:53:11.709 --> 02:53:15.290
The way his face looks and stuff. Oh, my God,

02:53:15.309 --> 02:53:22.030
man. One of the most pathetic things. But these

02:53:22.030 --> 02:53:26.829
were both really interesting movies. Yeah, I

02:53:26.829 --> 02:53:28.309
don't know. Do you have anything else you'd like

02:53:28.309 --> 02:53:31.809
to say? I'd say that's that mattress, man. That's

02:53:31.809 --> 02:53:32.409
that. That's that.