WEBVTT 00:00:03.020 --> 00:00:05.599 See, I believe that all the mysteries of the 00:00:05.599 --> 00:00:07.099 universe, all the answers to life's questions 00:00:07.099 --> 00:00:07.679 can be found in a Spielberg film. I've been afraid 00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:09.439 for all of my life. Why doesn’t somebody just 00:00:09.439 --> 00:00:11.240 shoot me in the head? Right up until the day 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:13.960 I knew my life was ending. You look bad. No, man. 00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:17.420 You smell bad. I'm pretty fucking far from Ok. Really, I feel 00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:21.260 I'm sharing a very- Look at my shit. I had an affair.- precious moment with you. 00:00:21.260 --> 00:00:23.460 There are no nations. There are no peoples. Are 00:00:23.460 --> 00:00:25.260 you threatening me, dick? You don't approve. 00:00:25.539 --> 00:00:28.100 Fake. Well, too bad. Totally fake. Did it seem 00:00:28.100 --> 00:00:31.140 fake? When my best friend was bitten in half in front of me, 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:33.060 I found this cover story personally embarrassing 00:00:33.060 --> 00:00:36.659 myself. Plenty of sausage and pepperonis. Everything but the little fishies. All 00:00:36.659 --> 00:00:39.159 right, welcome to Everything But the Little Fishies. 00:00:39.159 --> 00:00:42.740 Welcome. I'm Evan. I'm Mike. And today we're 00:00:42.740 --> 00:00:45.659 talking about the cult classic Revenge of the 00:00:45.659 --> 00:00:52.579 Nerds from 1984 and The Fly from 1986. Cronenberg's. 00:00:53.179 --> 00:00:56.039 Cronenberg's. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. With an honorable 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.369 mention of the original from 1958. But we'll 00:00:59.369 --> 00:01:02.469 get there. So yeah, to start with Revenge of 00:01:02.469 --> 00:01:06.230 the Nerds, first time I've seen this movie. I 00:01:06.230 --> 00:01:09.250 just watched it the other night. Obviously it 00:01:09.250 --> 00:01:13.870 has a reputation. I can't say I've ever really 00:01:13.870 --> 00:01:17.989 known that much about it. I had no idea what 00:01:17.989 --> 00:01:21.069 the plot would be like. I had no idea. with the 00:01:21.069 --> 00:01:24.750 thematic material. I guess I could only surmise 00:01:24.750 --> 00:01:27.590 from the title and the artwork on the front of 00:01:27.590 --> 00:01:30.829 the box that it would be some kind of satirical 00:01:30.829 --> 00:01:36.010 movie about how the misunderstood nerds who are 00:01:36.010 --> 00:01:39.629 always made fun of and picked on get to get back 00:01:39.629 --> 00:01:41.829 at the jocks and all the people who have wronged 00:01:41.829 --> 00:01:46.629 them. And I think when I was younger and I would 00:01:46.629 --> 00:01:49.159 look at the front of this box, I always imagined 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:51.159 it would be a movie I'd like because I always 00:01:51.159 --> 00:01:54.659 kind of thought I was one of them. I always kind 00:01:54.659 --> 00:01:56.980 of thought I was a nerd, or at least I was just 00:01:56.980 --> 00:02:00.319 not a popular kid, and I was teased a lot and 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:02.000 made fun of a lot. And I think when I was younger, 00:02:02.060 --> 00:02:06.280 I had a lot of kind of revenge fantasies about 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:13.740 what I would do to the popular kids. gross kind 00:02:13.740 --> 00:02:16.539 of fantasies about like getting the girls that 00:02:16.539 --> 00:02:18.879 are out of your league and sick twisted fantasies 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:24.280 about taking what's yours and uh finding these 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:29.439 clever ways to overpower the um the people who 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:31.139 are keeping you down and stuff like that and 00:02:31.139 --> 00:02:34.460 now that i've seen the movie i guess like it 00:02:34.460 --> 00:02:37.280 is that but i mean that i think is one of the 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:38.719 things that's so interesting about it is the 00:02:39.229 --> 00:02:41.509 the idea of the archetype of the nerd, right? 00:02:41.610 --> 00:02:44.110 And like what that means in the culture. And 00:02:44.110 --> 00:02:46.169 like, I think you're hitting the nail right on 00:02:46.169 --> 00:02:48.909 the head just from the start is like, yeah, like 00:02:48.909 --> 00:02:53.870 we, we as nineties kids. Like, we identify with 00:02:53.870 --> 00:02:56.330 the nerds. We kind of have been brought up in 00:02:56.330 --> 00:02:59.150 this sort of situation where, yeah, fuck the 00:02:59.150 --> 00:03:02.289 jocks. The nerds are the lead of all of our movies, 00:03:02.469 --> 00:03:05.090 right? Like, it's always about the kid that's 00:03:05.090 --> 00:03:07.969 picked on finally getting his, you know, finally 00:03:07.969 --> 00:03:09.669 getting the girl or whatever. It's never about 00:03:09.669 --> 00:03:12.310 the jock getting the girl. Like, how many, you 00:03:12.310 --> 00:03:14.530 know, I don't know. Yeah, that's, at least in 00:03:14.530 --> 00:03:17.189 the movies we watched in the 90s and stuff, that 00:03:17.189 --> 00:03:20.710 was like the archetypal shift. Right, right. 00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:23.280 And I think what's really interesting in looking 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:26.840 at this movie in 84, I mean, like, the idea of 00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:31.979 the underdog is, you know, a long -held American 00:03:31.979 --> 00:03:36.159 tradition, an American archetype. Maybe one of 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:38.280 the most important American archetypes. But I 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:40.139 think that Revenge of the Nerds does something 00:03:40.139 --> 00:03:43.419 really interesting in that, like... It takes 00:03:43.419 --> 00:03:46.740 that archetype and it applies it to nerds, which 00:03:46.740 --> 00:03:49.379 is kind of this new sort of concept. I mean, 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:51.219 not really a new concept. Nerds have been around 00:03:51.219 --> 00:03:53.900 for many years. But the conception of the nerds 00:03:53.900 --> 00:03:55.139 in this movie, I think, is very interesting. 00:03:56.259 --> 00:04:00.639 Just the idea of what a nerd is, you know? Yeah, 00:04:00.780 --> 00:04:04.379 I actually kind of wonder when the term nerd 00:04:04.379 --> 00:04:08.729 was first created. because yeah i mean i guess 00:04:08.729 --> 00:04:11.469 you would have called like any scientist a nerd 00:04:11.469 --> 00:04:13.729 or any mathematician a nerd or anybody that was 00:04:13.729 --> 00:04:16.569 into computers a nerd or whatever right and i 00:04:16.569 --> 00:04:19.490 we looked up um when we were watching revenge 00:04:19.490 --> 00:04:21.310 of the nerds one of the guys names is poindexter 00:04:21.310 --> 00:04:23.529 and lisa's like what the fuck is poindexter where 00:04:23.529 --> 00:04:25.290 did that term come from and looked it up and 00:04:25.290 --> 00:04:29.129 apparently it was a like a cartoon from the 50s 00:04:29.129 --> 00:04:32.649 or 60s There's a character named Poindexter that 00:04:32.649 --> 00:04:36.069 I assume was like a nerdy sort of character archetype 00:04:36.069 --> 00:04:37.970 and whatnot. So, I mean, this is an archetype 00:04:37.970 --> 00:04:40.730 that pre -exists Revenge of the Nerds, obviously. 00:04:42.509 --> 00:04:44.509 I'm sure that, you know, the guys who were making 00:04:44.509 --> 00:04:46.829 the atomic bomb were looked at as nerds, like, 00:04:46.829 --> 00:04:50.310 and not jocks. That's, you know, a pre -existing 00:04:50.310 --> 00:04:53.170 archetype. This is what Google says about nerd. 00:04:53.350 --> 00:04:57.170 It first appeared in print in 1950 in Dr. Seuss' 00:04:57.290 --> 00:05:00.949 children's book, If I Ran the Zoo. Wow. Interesting. 00:05:01.129 --> 00:05:05.850 Seuss came up with the nerd. According to Google, 00:05:06.170 --> 00:05:10.269 which like, well, yeah. According to AI, it also 00:05:10.269 --> 00:05:13.529 says that like 2001 was based on a dream that 00:05:13.529 --> 00:05:17.189 Kubrick had that nobody has ever said. Yeah, 00:05:17.350 --> 00:05:21.990 but if you go down, yeah, if you go down, like 00:05:21.990 --> 00:05:26.629 it's the Merriam -Webster also corroborates that. 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:29.319 So the nerd comes around around the time that 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:31.639 like the teenagers being popularized and stuff. 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:34.959 Sure. Which is kind of what we're doing in this 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:37.879 college movie too. Like all of this stuff is 00:05:37.879 --> 00:05:41.319 kind of. And I guess in the 1950s, individuals 00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:44.879 who might be considered nerds were often labeled 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:48.660 squares or trips. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I 00:05:48.660 --> 00:05:50.259 mean, there were nerds in happy days and stuff. 00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:52.079 There were nerds, like, you know, nerds exist. 00:05:52.259 --> 00:05:54.420 Sure. I mean, it's an archetype that's been around 00:05:54.420 --> 00:05:57.959 for a while, but it does feel like a modern archetype. 00:05:57.959 --> 00:06:00.139 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think that part of 00:06:00.139 --> 00:06:03.839 it is that it's uniquely tied to computers in 00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:08.759 the modern sort of context, which I think is 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:11.240 extremely important for both of these movies. 00:06:11.540 --> 00:06:13.199 But the other thing that I think that's interesting 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:15.199 about Revenge of the Nerd specifically is that 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:18.660 it doesn't even keep the nerd archetype specifically 00:06:18.660 --> 00:06:22.439 to the computer thing or anything. A nerd is 00:06:22.439 --> 00:06:26.259 not necessarily a computer kid or a smart kid 00:06:26.259 --> 00:06:29.980 or anything. You know what I mean? A nerd is 00:06:29.980 --> 00:06:35.079 just anyone who sees themselves as picked on. 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:36.899 You know what I mean? Anyone who sees themselves 00:06:36.899 --> 00:06:40.720 as a victim, essentially. Sure, but... Or anyone 00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:43.500 we see as a victim, too, or whatever. Yeah, but 00:06:43.500 --> 00:06:49.160 in the movie, Lewis, the more confident nerd, 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:52.040 Part of his confidence has to do with the fact 00:06:52.040 --> 00:06:54.339 that he doesn't actually see himself as a nerd. 00:06:54.519 --> 00:06:57.740 And part of his arc, if you can even call it 00:06:57.740 --> 00:07:00.100 that, in the movie is him just coming to terms 00:07:00.100 --> 00:07:03.160 with the fact that he is one. Right. And then 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:05.360 Gilbert gives that speech in the end that says, 00:07:05.379 --> 00:07:06.779 I'm proud of being a nerd. And it's all about 00:07:06.779 --> 00:07:09.779 this acceptance of being the nerd. Right. Or 00:07:09.779 --> 00:07:13.089 whatever. Which is a universal theme that you 00:07:13.089 --> 00:07:16.149 can apply to queer narratives and all sorts of 00:07:16.149 --> 00:07:19.490 these underdog narratives. Yeah, sure. And that's 00:07:19.490 --> 00:07:21.089 what Revenge of the Nerds goes really far out 00:07:21.089 --> 00:07:25.389 of its way to do, is to extend the nerd thing 00:07:25.389 --> 00:07:29.949 to all liberal causes, essentially. No, you're 00:07:29.949 --> 00:07:32.209 right, because there's like a gay black kid. 00:07:32.230 --> 00:07:35.250 A gay black kid, there's a Japanese kid. There's 00:07:35.250 --> 00:07:39.970 the stoner guy who just, I mean. He, what is, 00:07:40.089 --> 00:07:41.430 I mean, when I was watching the release, the 00:07:41.430 --> 00:07:43.790 release was like, this guy's cool. Like, why, 00:07:43.910 --> 00:07:45.550 how is he a nerd? This guy's cool. I would fuck 00:07:45.550 --> 00:07:48.430 this guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're talking about 00:07:48.430 --> 00:07:50.610 Booger. Yeah, Booger, Booger. And it's like, 00:07:50.709 --> 00:07:52.730 yeah, well, he's confident. I like Booger. Booger 00:07:52.730 --> 00:07:55.209 has a certain confidence to him that like is 00:07:55.209 --> 00:07:56.990 cool. Like, even though, yeah, he's not cool, 00:07:57.009 --> 00:08:00.470 he's gross, but like, that's not a nerd archetype 00:08:00.470 --> 00:08:02.870 in any like conception of like, you know what 00:08:02.870 --> 00:08:05.819 I mean? But it extends it to that too. It's all 00:08:05.819 --> 00:08:08.279 of these people that it's like, no matter who 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:10.459 you are watching this movie, you can be like, 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:12.819 no, I'm a nerd and I'm against the jocks, you 00:08:12.819 --> 00:08:16.720 know? And the jocks are, yeah, sorry. No, and 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:18.319 I think one of the more problematic elements 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:21.720 of the movies is that the whole nerd troop ends 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:26.829 up getting identified with the black. fraternity? 00:08:26.850 --> 00:08:28.269 Yeah, yeah, yeah, because it's the same thing. 00:08:28.449 --> 00:08:30.889 I was like, so we're the minorities, so we're 00:08:30.889 --> 00:08:33.230 going to go find the other minorities, the black 00:08:33.230 --> 00:08:35.929 fraternity. Right, right. And we're going to 00:08:35.929 --> 00:08:39.710 get championed by them. Well, so this is the 00:08:39.710 --> 00:08:41.889 thing. I think what's interesting is the nerds 00:08:41.889 --> 00:08:44.230 in this movie are defined almost exclusively 00:08:44.230 --> 00:08:48.629 as being deficient. And you can say there's the 00:08:48.629 --> 00:08:51.009 gay black one or whatever, but like... I think 00:08:51.009 --> 00:08:54.210 it's kind of a homophobic, racist movie that 00:08:54.210 --> 00:08:56.190 is, like, that's his deficiency. Like, you know 00:08:56.190 --> 00:08:58.190 what I mean? Like, each of these guys have a 00:08:58.190 --> 00:09:00.669 deficiency. Lewis and Gilbert have a deficiency. 00:09:00.909 --> 00:09:02.809 Poindexter has a deficiency. Takashi has a... 00:09:02.809 --> 00:09:05.269 Like, Poindexter can't see. Like, Gilbert and 00:09:05.269 --> 00:09:08.009 Lewis are... Like, they all have their... Like, 00:09:08.110 --> 00:09:10.730 Gilbert is too attached to his mother. Lewis 00:09:10.730 --> 00:09:13.350 is, like... I don't know. He's Jewish. Like, 00:09:13.350 --> 00:09:18.139 I don't know who these... But each of these guys 00:09:18.139 --> 00:09:20.500 have a thing. And, like, basically it's defined 00:09:20.500 --> 00:09:23.120 by their unattractiveness and their unattractiveness 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:25.340 to women. Like, that is, like, across the board, 00:09:25.379 --> 00:09:28.759 that is what the kind of definition is. They 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:31.299 are deficient and unattractive to women. And 00:09:31.299 --> 00:09:34.500 then they take that and extend it to the black, 00:09:34.659 --> 00:09:38.460 like. uh civil rights movement you know what 00:09:38.460 --> 00:09:40.779 i mean it's like yeah i know like to say that 00:09:40.779 --> 00:09:42.860 these are the same thing that like people who 00:09:42.860 --> 00:09:46.059 are ugly and unattractive and basically deficient 00:09:46.059 --> 00:09:48.360 they're bad at things like like point dexter's 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:50.899 like shoving his hand into a blender and stuff 00:09:50.899 --> 00:09:53.559 like these guys can't do anything well And the 00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:55.759 only reason that they do well in the tests in 00:09:55.759 --> 00:09:57.460 the end is because they cheat. Like every single 00:09:57.460 --> 00:10:00.519 test that they win is them cheating. They don't 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:03.259 play the game at all. They cheat. They like use 00:10:03.259 --> 00:10:06.440 loopholes to create their fraternity by like, 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:09.720 you know, ascribing their struggle to the black 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:11.899 struggle. And like they do, like all of these 00:10:11.899 --> 00:10:16.080 things are these like weird, shady, self, you 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:19.759 know, aggrandizing moves to create their own 00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:22.659 like, I don't know, success out of their victimhood. 00:10:23.070 --> 00:10:25.710 um and say like no we are the victims and we 00:10:25.710 --> 00:10:27.929 are together on this against you and you guys 00:10:27.929 --> 00:10:30.330 are the ones that it times up and it's time for 00:10:30.330 --> 00:10:33.809 us and blah blah blah yeah and like what actually 00:10:33.809 --> 00:10:35.730 relates all of them more than anything is their 00:10:35.730 --> 00:10:39.110 desire for sex yeah because they're because all 00:10:39.110 --> 00:10:42.070 their deficiencies make them unattractive to 00:10:42.070 --> 00:10:45.090 women and so like women is like the thing they 00:10:45.090 --> 00:10:47.830 all universally desire that they don't have right 00:10:48.299 --> 00:10:51.820 And they're using all of their skills to get 00:10:51.820 --> 00:10:55.659 without being attractive to them, without consensual, 00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:58.980 like without consent. It's all about them like 00:10:58.980 --> 00:11:01.799 stealing what they think is theirs. And in the 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:03.639 end, they do. They win all the contests. They 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:07.539 steal what is theirs through shady, disgusting, 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:10.179 unattractive means. And then they're like, no, 00:11:10.259 --> 00:11:12.740 we're like the Black Panthers, basically. It's 00:11:12.740 --> 00:11:16.039 just like this movie is so evil. Like it's to 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:19.500 to to ascribe like this. I mean, it's a liberal 00:11:19.500 --> 00:11:22.120 ideology is the point, though. It's we are all 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:26.440 victims. We all are outsiders. I define myself 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:30.000 as against this like culture that is run by the 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:32.779 jocks and whatever. But what are the jocks like? 00:11:32.840 --> 00:11:34.019 That's that's the thing that I think is really 00:11:34.019 --> 00:11:36.580 interesting in this movie is like if the nerds 00:11:36.580 --> 00:11:39.039 are defined as simply being like unattractive 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:40.940 to women and whatever, like what are the jocks? 00:11:41.719 --> 00:11:46.200 Because, like, I mean, when it's Lewis, right, 00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:49.980 who rapes the girl in the Darth Vader costume. 00:11:50.259 --> 00:11:52.840 When Lewis, he has the, like, well, all jocks 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:55.320 think about is sports and all nerds think about 00:11:55.320 --> 00:12:00.320 is sex. What a pickup line. Nerds are like these 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:04.679 totally, like, deficient, perverse, like, it's 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:06.419 a perversion. It's a thing that has been done 00:12:06.419 --> 00:12:11.210 to them that has made them, like. singularly 00:12:11.210 --> 00:12:14.549 singularly focused on this one thing yeah they're 00:12:14.549 --> 00:12:17.750 so sexually repressed so like it comes out in 00:12:17.750 --> 00:12:21.789 really toxic ways right um whereas the jocks 00:12:21.789 --> 00:12:23.970 like they get to have sex and sex actually isn't 00:12:23.970 --> 00:12:25.990 like the most important thing to them like they're 00:12:25.990 --> 00:12:28.009 sort of somewhat career focused that's what it 00:12:28.009 --> 00:12:30.490 means to be into the football or whatever like 00:12:31.100 --> 00:12:32.840 They want to work on a team, and they want to 00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:34.179 play the game, and they want to win. Yeah, they're 00:12:34.179 --> 00:12:37.220 part of a team as well. And the nerds create 00:12:37.220 --> 00:12:39.720 their own team, and maybe that was the thing 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:42.360 that they were lacking before, is that they were 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:45.620 all a bunch of these socially inept losers who 00:12:45.620 --> 00:12:49.659 didn't have a team. But then they learn, oh, 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:52.320 these are my people. These are all the downtrodden, 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:56.159 misunderstood minorities and whatever, and we 00:12:56.159 --> 00:12:59.879 are a team. Right. But yeah, the only thing that 00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:02.080 actually connects them all is just that repression 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:04.299 and that frustration. And that they all kind 00:13:04.299 --> 00:13:07.639 of suck more than the jocks, basically. They're 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:08.899 less attractive than the jocks. They actually 00:13:08.899 --> 00:13:12.879 do suck. The thing I was thinking, right when 00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:16.480 the movie started, is it's really weird that 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:19.710 this movie seems so sincere. That like, it really 00:13:19.710 --> 00:13:22.049 feels like we're supposed to just be on the side 00:13:22.049 --> 00:13:24.230 of the nerds. Right. This feels like a movie 00:13:24.230 --> 00:13:26.250 made for nerds. Like it's some kind of weird, 00:13:26.309 --> 00:13:29.669 like fantasy fulfillment for nerds. Yeah. Yeah. 00:13:29.750 --> 00:13:31.710 Yeah. Absolutely. And people and whatever. And 00:13:31.710 --> 00:13:34.269 you sort of are supposed to side with them, but 00:13:34.269 --> 00:13:36.559 like. The first thing that happens when they 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:38.539 get to campus is, like, they're carrying those 00:13:38.539 --> 00:13:41.440 oversized chests that just have stupid fucking 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:43.940 robots in them that they don't need. Yeah. And, 00:13:44.019 --> 00:13:46.259 like, they're just, like, trampling people on 00:13:46.259 --> 00:13:48.639 the lawn. And they, like, cause a car accident 00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:50.340 and, like, a bike accident and shit. Like, they're 00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:53.240 just, like, completely oblivious. Yeah. And they're 00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:55.399 causing chaos to all the people who have to survive. 00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:56.679 And they're causing chaos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:13:56.820 --> 00:13:59.860 Yeah. Like, it's, like, actually, it's an insanely 00:13:59.860 --> 00:14:01.440 annoying sequence. There's detritus in their 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:02.919 wake. Because it's supposed to play as, like... 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:05.259 Yeah, it's supposed to play as, like, this funny, 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:08.279 silly thing, like, oh, how endearing they are. 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:09.960 But, like, watching it, I was just like, dude, 00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:12.100 these guys suck. Yeah, they actually already 00:14:12.100 --> 00:14:14.559 in the first scene do more harm than the jocks 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:17.159 do, like, to anybody other than themselves. Like, 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:19.179 the jocks harm themselves, sure. They burn down 00:14:19.179 --> 00:14:24.440 their own house. But, like, they don't do anything. 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:26.950 I mean, the jocks. The jocks suck to a certain 00:14:26.950 --> 00:14:29.529 degree because, like, it's not really fair that 00:14:29.529 --> 00:14:30.889 they burn down their own house and then they 00:14:30.889 --> 00:14:32.590 get to just take the nerds' house and stuff. 00:14:32.830 --> 00:14:36.149 And then they continue to antagonize the nerds 00:14:36.149 --> 00:14:38.389 and stuff. Like, they really do just, like, hate 00:14:38.389 --> 00:14:41.610 the nerds for no reason that's established. Right, 00:14:41.669 --> 00:14:43.549 right. Like, they just hate the nerds because 00:14:43.549 --> 00:14:47.879 they're nerds. Yeah. And then, like, so, like, 00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:49.940 you end up kind of siding with the nerds because 00:14:49.940 --> 00:14:51.279 you're like, yeah, this is really unfair what's 00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:52.860 happening to them and stuff like that. But to 00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:55.559 me, this feels like an unreliable narrator. Like, 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:57.860 it's just the person who's writing this is a 00:14:57.860 --> 00:15:01.419 nerd. Like, so all of this is written to appeal 00:15:01.419 --> 00:15:03.419 to that. So, like, when the jocks burn down their 00:15:03.419 --> 00:15:07.220 house, like, we see what they do. They just literally 00:15:07.220 --> 00:15:09.840 spray the walls with fire. And then they're like, 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:15.029 oh, it was fun. It was faulty wiring. But, like, 00:15:15.029 --> 00:15:16.990 maybe what actually happened was, like, no, it 00:15:16.990 --> 00:15:18.710 was faulty wiring. Some nerd fucking installed 00:15:18.710 --> 00:15:20.870 faulty wiring. And then the nerd who retold the 00:15:20.870 --> 00:15:22.309 story was like, yeah, those assholes burned down 00:15:22.309 --> 00:15:25.190 their house. Because that's what jocks do. But 00:15:25.190 --> 00:15:27.429 it's like, no, like, really, it's like, maybe 00:15:27.429 --> 00:15:29.990 it was the technology that failed. And the jocks 00:15:29.990 --> 00:15:32.110 are being blamed for being these, like, over 00:15:32.110 --> 00:15:35.070 -the -top cartoonish ogres. When there's a perfectly 00:15:35.070 --> 00:15:37.610 reasonable explanation. And it is that the nerds 00:15:37.610 --> 00:15:39.549 don't know how to fucking install electricity 00:15:39.549 --> 00:15:41.549 and whatever. Like, I don't know. You know? But 00:15:41.549 --> 00:15:44.059 it does feel like a, like... oh, look at these 00:15:44.059 --> 00:15:46.720 jocks blaming technology when obviously they 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:49.360 burned down their house. And it's like, well, 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:51.080 I don't know. I feel like the other one happens 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:54.299 maybe even more often in reality. Like, I think 00:15:54.299 --> 00:15:55.700 that electrical circuitry... It was not due to 00:15:55.700 --> 00:15:57.779 our human error. Yeah, it was not due to... Yeah, 00:15:57.820 --> 00:16:00.039 yeah, exactly. It was not due to the human error 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:01.980 of the nerds. It was due to the human error of 00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:03.779 the other ones because the technology itself 00:16:03.779 --> 00:16:06.620 could never have failed. And that's taken for 00:16:06.620 --> 00:16:08.059 granted in the movie. But again, it feels like 00:16:08.059 --> 00:16:10.240 an unrobable narrator. It feels like some idiot 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:13.029 wrote this who believes that. I also just felt 00:16:13.029 --> 00:16:16.029 like even though I did think like it was a little 00:16:16.029 --> 00:16:18.230 bit unfair that the jocks got to take their house 00:16:18.230 --> 00:16:20.750 and that they were being so, you know, I mean, 00:16:20.750 --> 00:16:22.429 they weren't really doing anything that crazy 00:16:22.429 --> 00:16:23.950 to the nerds. They're just pranking them all 00:16:23.950 --> 00:16:25.649 the time. And like, I mean, taking the house 00:16:25.649 --> 00:16:28.330 was like the big one or whatever. But that like 00:16:28.330 --> 00:16:30.330 has a lot to do with just like the power structure 00:16:30.330 --> 00:16:32.870 of the school. Right. I mean, they bring millions 00:16:32.870 --> 00:16:34.909 of dollars into the school every year, I'm sure. 00:16:35.110 --> 00:16:38.090 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. The jocks are more important 00:16:38.090 --> 00:16:41.029 or whatever. They are contributing to this thing. 00:16:41.740 --> 00:16:43.440 They're in control of the thing. They've been 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:46.440 in control of it for many years. They're holding 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:48.899 this whole institution together, and they don't 00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:53.139 have little robot maids, and they don't have 00:16:53.139 --> 00:16:56.610 video cameras to spy on the girls. They have 00:16:56.610 --> 00:16:58.509 their own infrastructure. But the nerds then, 00:16:58.529 --> 00:17:01.669 you know, use their new technology to exploit 00:17:01.669 --> 00:17:04.029 that and then just, you know, take over this 00:17:04.029 --> 00:17:05.269 infrastructure. Yeah, this is what I was going 00:17:05.269 --> 00:17:07.970 to say. It was like that at the beginning you 00:17:07.970 --> 00:17:10.210 kind of like feel like, yeah, maybe the nerds, 00:17:10.210 --> 00:17:11.769 like the jocks aren't treating them really nice 00:17:11.769 --> 00:17:13.730 and this kind of sucks for them. It's a little 00:17:13.730 --> 00:17:16.230 unfair. But then the longer the movie goes on, 00:17:16.269 --> 00:17:19.000 the more you're just like, dude. fuck these nerds. 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:21.480 They're like horrendously evil. Somebody needs 00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:24.140 to keep them down. Like somebody needs to keep 00:17:24.140 --> 00:17:26.099 them down. Somebody needs to beat the shit out 00:17:26.099 --> 00:17:28.140 of them. Yeah, like if you watch the whole movie 00:17:28.140 --> 00:17:29.900 and then you go back to the beginning when the 00:17:29.900 --> 00:17:32.640 jocks just start yelling nerds at them, it's 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:34.380 just like, well, yeah, you should treat them 00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:36.660 like that because they're like rapey, disgusting, 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:39.440 evil human beings. And you can see it by looking 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:41.519 at their faces and how they're dressed and how 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:44.339 poorly they are like integrating into society, 00:17:44.579 --> 00:17:46.380 how much damage they do on all the people around 00:17:46.380 --> 00:17:48.450 them without realizing. They are just deficient. 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:52.259 You should shun them. You should shun them. You 00:17:52.259 --> 00:17:54.400 don't want them in your institutions. All they're 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:57.619 going to do is create a horrible, rapey, disgusting 00:17:57.619 --> 00:18:00.500 technological paradigm in which they take all 00:18:00.500 --> 00:18:02.440 of the power away from the people who have charisma 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:05.759 and put it into the most rapey, disgusting nerd 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:08.160 people. And then you get, you know, Elon Musk 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:10.559 with his six wives and whatever, like being successful. 00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:14.359 And, you know, we can't see jocks like being 00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:16.839 successful in the culture anymore because that 00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:18.839 would be, it's like, what are you even talking 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:21.299 about? At least the jock had something going 00:18:21.299 --> 00:18:24.420 for it. At least the jock had charisma. Yeah, 00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:27.259 and they play fair. They don't cheat. They're 00:18:27.259 --> 00:18:30.819 doing things based on merit. Right. At least 00:18:30.819 --> 00:18:33.799 on some level. At least on the merit of charisma. 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:36.380 At least on the merit of charisma. When we're 00:18:36.380 --> 00:18:39.200 talking about the competition of who the culture 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:42.500 thinks is... As far as archetypes of masculinity, 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:45.180 who defines what is successful as an archetype 00:18:45.180 --> 00:18:48.339 of masculinity in the culture? The females. Like 00:18:48.339 --> 00:18:51.339 that is the definition of, you know, which of 00:18:51.339 --> 00:18:53.720 those archetypes is the thing. So when we're 00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:57.059 talking about like the nerds being unattractive, 00:18:57.059 --> 00:18:59.500 we're talking about just like the paradigm not 00:18:59.500 --> 00:19:02.680 putting their thing on a pedestal. You know what 00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:05.279 I mean? And then like them through these shady 00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:08.380 means changing the paradigm in which like they 00:19:08.380 --> 00:19:11.599 then gain the women, you know, then they rise 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:13.910 to the top of the ziggurat or whatever. Sure. 00:19:13.950 --> 00:19:16.950 And I think the movie works in that way, in a 00:19:16.950 --> 00:19:18.930 really prescient way, to describe the actual 00:19:18.930 --> 00:19:21.329 rise of the nerds that's happened in our culture. 00:19:21.710 --> 00:19:23.430 It's the story of the internet. It's the story 00:19:23.430 --> 00:19:24.710 of the internet. I mean, the first thing they 00:19:24.710 --> 00:19:27.410 do is they start introducing this underage kid 00:19:27.410 --> 00:19:31.190 to pornography. They're sitting there watching 00:19:31.190 --> 00:19:33.630 naked women with this child. You know what I 00:19:33.630 --> 00:19:36.089 mean? Just because, like, no, they're just putting 00:19:36.089 --> 00:19:37.890 it on the Internet. Like, and then children are, 00:19:38.069 --> 00:19:42.069 you know, it's the paradigm in which every 12 00:19:42.069 --> 00:19:45.349 -year -old in the world watches DP porn. Like, 00:19:45.369 --> 00:19:48.789 that happens in the first. And the revenge porn, 00:19:48.869 --> 00:19:51.089 the spying on the women in the bathroom and using 00:19:51.089 --> 00:19:53.910 that and having ownership of the images of the 00:19:53.910 --> 00:19:56.130 women. I mean, that's Facebook. And that's revenge 00:19:56.130 --> 00:19:58.829 porn. And that is the paradigm in which, like, 00:19:58.829 --> 00:20:03.829 we live now as far as, you know, toxic male behavior. 00:20:04.460 --> 00:20:07.259 Yeah. I mean, the movie could be smarter, though. 00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:10.039 Like, I think one of the most baffling things 00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:14.660 that happens in the movie is that Lewis tricks 00:20:14.660 --> 00:20:17.259 that cheerleader and essentially rapes her, but 00:20:17.259 --> 00:20:21.190 she totally... digs it like she's like you're 00:20:21.190 --> 00:20:23.730 that nerd and you were amazing yeah and then 00:20:23.730 --> 00:20:25.670 he says that line about how like all we think 00:20:25.670 --> 00:20:28.089 about is sex and like none of this is creepy 00:20:28.089 --> 00:20:31.009 or perverse or disgusting to her and then like 00:20:31.009 --> 00:20:32.769 the next like the next scene she's just like 00:20:32.769 --> 00:20:36.089 i'm in love with a nerd it's like why because 00:20:36.089 --> 00:20:39.009 he raped me because he took ownership over me 00:20:39.009 --> 00:20:41.609 and blah blah blah like the thing is the nerds 00:20:41.609 --> 00:20:47.200 the nerds have a more toxic masculine like power 00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:50.299 over like they they don't respect consent like 00:20:50.299 --> 00:20:52.579 the people who wrote this movie are people who 00:20:52.579 --> 00:20:54.920 thought that like yeah what you do is you get 00:20:54.920 --> 00:20:56.960 a girl and you have sex with her whether she 00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:58.940 wants to or not and that's how she falls in love 00:20:58.940 --> 00:21:01.660 with you like you know what i mean it's and that's 00:21:01.660 --> 00:21:04.359 that's what you know like maybe like the toxic 00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:08.960 masculine you know kings of ancient like whatever 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:10.200 it would have said like you know what i mean 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:13.640 mesopotamian kings might have been toxic masculine 00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:15.940 and thought the same way but like that's not 00:21:15.940 --> 00:21:18.519 what the jocks are in this movie like it's that's 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:20.079 what the nerds are that's the only people who 00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:23.920 are able to be that toxic are nerds who are deficient 00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:27.619 and are taking it back you know yeah for sure 00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:29.759 And it's because they can't win in any other 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:32.180 paradigm. It's because they're so unattractive 00:21:32.180 --> 00:21:34.599 to women. It's because they actually are deficient 00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:36.759 and they actually do not deserve the approval 00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:38.859 of the women that they have to just take it. 00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:43.799 And the idea that them taking it and winning 00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:46.759 is triumph is like, no, dude, that's about the 00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:49.480 worst team cheating and taking over. That's, 00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:53.329 you know what I mean? It's not a fair game. It's 00:21:53.329 --> 00:21:55.490 not a fair competition. They're not playing fair. 00:21:55.609 --> 00:21:57.410 They're not playing based on any merits. Because 00:21:57.410 --> 00:22:01.630 if they had to, then they would lose. Yeah, then 00:22:01.630 --> 00:22:03.690 they'd lose, exactly. If they actually had to 00:22:03.690 --> 00:22:06.289 play fair, they'd have no chance against the 00:22:06.289 --> 00:22:09.130 jocks. And that really is the thing. It's almost 00:22:09.130 --> 00:22:11.309 like a topping from the bottom situation as well, 00:22:11.430 --> 00:22:15.789 right? Like how the system and the power structure 00:22:15.789 --> 00:22:18.970 as it's set up doesn't allow those at the bottom. 00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:22.859 to rise up within the rules of the system so 00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:26.119 they have to game the system right and that's 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:28.880 like they game it through all of these they game 00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:33.019 it through all of these shady cheating behind 00:22:33.019 --> 00:22:36.740 the scenes disgusting memes where like yeah it's 00:22:36.740 --> 00:22:39.140 so much more impressive for like ogre to like 00:22:39.140 --> 00:22:41.380 lift a bunch of weights and then fuck a girl 00:22:41.380 --> 00:22:45.599 than it is for you know lewis to you know sneak 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:47.960 into a girl's bathroom and take naked pictures 00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:49.720 of her like you know what i mean it's like one 00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:51.980 of these guys is like i am really like maybe 00:22:51.980 --> 00:22:54.599 i'm dumb but i'm good at something the other 00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:56.579 guy is just like i'm gonna fucking take your 00:22:56.579 --> 00:23:00.839 panties it's like why why do we side with that 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:03.339 guy and why did our culture side with this like 00:23:03.339 --> 00:23:04.539 you know what i mean i think it's like it is 00:23:04.539 --> 00:23:07.559 advertising for technology that allows people 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:10.039 who are deficient to feel like oh with this technology 00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:13.769 i can masturbate to all sorts of beautiful naked 00:23:13.769 --> 00:23:15.349 women on the internet. You know what I mean? 00:23:15.390 --> 00:23:19.049 I have access to the female form. I can eventually, 00:23:19.130 --> 00:23:21.049 maybe I'll be able to create a robot woman and 00:23:21.049 --> 00:23:22.829 I'll be able to blah, blah, blah. And like, this 00:23:22.829 --> 00:23:25.869 is, it's disgusting. I don't know. The thing 00:23:25.869 --> 00:23:28.369 is like, for me, this does come out a few years 00:23:28.369 --> 00:23:30.609 after Porky's. So it also feels like it's trying 00:23:30.609 --> 00:23:33.470 to do this kind of genre. Of course. Like where 00:23:33.470 --> 00:23:36.609 like, it's about like this objectification of 00:23:36.609 --> 00:23:40.390 women and this sort of like, not in like a, interesting 00:23:40.390 --> 00:23:44.109 or like self -critical way or whatever it's just 00:23:44.109 --> 00:23:48.309 like the movie literally is made to like the 00:23:48.309 --> 00:23:50.349 whole point of the movie is like the girls taking 00:23:50.349 --> 00:23:52.390 off their tops and seeing the tits and the bush 00:23:52.390 --> 00:23:54.309 shot and like all this kind of stuff it's like 00:23:54.309 --> 00:23:57.009 that's like the appeal of the movie you have 00:23:57.009 --> 00:23:59.269 a bunch of nerds come watch this and it's like 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:02.339 that's like that'll turn them on and that's like 00:24:02.339 --> 00:24:05.000 yeah there's something about the there's something 00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:07.619 about the voyeurism and the like the lack of 00:24:07.619 --> 00:24:10.259 consent and well there's also yeah there's the 00:24:10.259 --> 00:24:12.339 fantasy that this actually could happen to you 00:24:12.339 --> 00:24:14.440 right because like yeah you're not good enough 00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:16.579 to ever you know you're not attractive enough 00:24:16.579 --> 00:24:19.160 or smart enough or cunning enough or have enough 00:24:19.160 --> 00:24:21.359 game or whatever to ever even talk to one of 00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:24.539 these girls but If you have the internet, you 00:24:24.539 --> 00:24:27.680 can totally see them in their bathrooms taking 00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:31.519 a shower. You can sneak in and rape them if you 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:34.559 wanted to. These are all accessible fantasies 00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:36.940 to people who are disgusting and deficient and 00:24:36.940 --> 00:24:39.859 hate themselves. Yeah, and now their culture 00:24:39.859 --> 00:24:42.960 has won out so hard that girls will willingly 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:45.720 do that. That's like the whole thing of OnlyFans 00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:49.259 or whatever, an entire culture and infrastructure 00:24:49.259 --> 00:24:52.700 that's been created. for girls to sell their 00:24:52.700 --> 00:24:55.640 bodies and sex directly to the nerds over the 00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:58.440 internet. Right. Right. And get paid for it or 00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:01.680 whatever. Right. Totally. Totally. It's depraved, 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:04.759 you know? Yeah. It's like, we've got, and I think 00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:07.660 like TikTok and Instagram is like an extension 00:25:07.660 --> 00:25:09.319 of that too, even though they're not getting 00:25:09.319 --> 00:25:12.700 naked, like the entire. infrastructure is to 00:25:12.700 --> 00:25:14.859 like sell yourself no i mean like yeah this was 00:25:14.859 --> 00:25:18.960 the whole focus of um um the social network movie 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:21.740 is just that you know facebook is an extension 00:25:21.740 --> 00:25:25.400 of revenge porn and that you know owning a woman's 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:28.700 image and having i mean people don't really think 00:25:28.700 --> 00:25:31.900 about but like you when when we were in you know 00:25:31.900 --> 00:25:34.119 elementary school or middle school like if you 00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:37.000 had a crush on a girl from school like You could 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:39.140 maybe have a picture of her from your yearbook 00:25:39.140 --> 00:25:40.359 or something. Like, you know what I mean? But 00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:42.700 it's not, you didn't just have access to photos 00:25:42.700 --> 00:25:46.400 of women that you saw in real life. Like, you 00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:48.119 know what I mean? That was like having ownership 00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:49.720 of a photo of a woman. That's like what people 00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:53.000 brought to war. Like, that's like, that is like 00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:58.589 a thing that is valuable. And Zuckerberg understood 00:25:58.589 --> 00:26:02.730 the value of that and that created this entire 00:26:02.730 --> 00:26:04.890 world that we live in. But that's a world that 00:26:04.890 --> 00:26:08.599 is catering to this. distanced nerd who's too 00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:11.460 afraid to talk to the woman in person but wants 00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:14.119 to be able to jerk off to her alone in his room 00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:16.700 by himself sure and that is what only fans comes 00:26:16.700 --> 00:26:18.420 from that's what the internet is that's what 00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:20.779 the internet is not for these jocks who actually 00:26:20.779 --> 00:26:23.599 like could seduce a woman or be good at something 00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:26.640 in real life or like be impressive or anything 00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:29.940 it is built for these nerds and i think the thing 00:26:29.940 --> 00:26:32.119 is like we were talking right when we opened 00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:34.960 up like the the idea of like the in the 90s we 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:40.359 all like were sold this idea of like you know 00:26:40.359 --> 00:26:42.640 fuck the popular kids fuck the jocks like it's 00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:44.400 all about like the freaks and the geeks and like 00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:46.440 you know what i mean it's the the outsider thing 00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:49.940 and i always ascribed to that as a kid probably 00:26:49.940 --> 00:26:53.019 because just i'm a pop culture junkie um although 00:26:53.019 --> 00:26:54.900 honestly like when i was a younger kid i wasn't 00:26:54.900 --> 00:26:57.039 even as into i don't know whatever the point 00:26:57.039 --> 00:27:00.460 is i i did somehow absorb that through the culture 00:27:00.460 --> 00:27:03.839 and like i often would just hang with the like 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:07.240 real loser kids like you know what i mean there's 00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:09.680 like i you know the kids that were cooler than 00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:12.680 me made me feel insecure you know what i mean 00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:15.720 i had to like you know i i felt like i'm not 00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:18.119 cool enough to be here maybe that wasn't a cool 00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:19.960 thing to say this wasn't interesting that wasn't 00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:22.440 funny whatever i'm second guessing myself if 00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:23.599 you're hanging out with some nerds it's kind 00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:25.319 of like oh well you could just be yourself and 00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:29.549 whatever like these like i'm i'm I don't know. 00:27:29.589 --> 00:27:30.950 I think part of it is like, yeah, these people 00:27:30.950 --> 00:27:34.609 are deficient. So like, I don't, I'm like, I'm 00:27:34.609 --> 00:27:37.930 already cooler than these people, you know? But 00:27:37.930 --> 00:27:40.430 I think there's like, I think of like, these 00:27:40.430 --> 00:27:42.450 are the actual cool people. I've been told these 00:27:42.450 --> 00:27:44.109 are the actual cool people. I don't want to be 00:27:44.109 --> 00:27:46.230 a part of that like group of, you know, football 00:27:46.230 --> 00:27:48.190 players and whatever. I want to be with the nerds 00:27:48.190 --> 00:27:50.309 who play video games and watch anime and blah, 00:27:50.410 --> 00:27:53.549 blah, blah. And then at a certain point in middle 00:27:53.549 --> 00:27:58.059 school, I just remember one of them. bit this 00:27:58.059 --> 00:28:00.980 other kid. And I was just kind of like, dude, 00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:03.519 we're in middle school and I'm hanging out with 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:06.339 the kids who are biting people. Maybe there's 00:28:06.339 --> 00:28:09.039 a reason that these are the outcasts. Maybe I've 00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:11.799 had it all backwards. You know what I mean? I 00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:14.579 actually don't want to hang out with the kids 00:28:14.579 --> 00:28:19.500 who are just reciting Pokemon at recess and biting 00:28:19.500 --> 00:28:25.440 other kids in eighth grade. These are weird autistic 00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:27.720 people like that. I am not. I'm not one of them. 00:28:27.740 --> 00:28:29.220 Like, I don't want to be one of them. This is 00:28:29.220 --> 00:28:31.380 not what I aspire to. And then at that point, 00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:33.180 I kind of started trying to hang out with skater 00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:34.579 kids and blah, blah, blah. You know, I tried 00:28:34.579 --> 00:28:38.960 to change my life as an eighth grader. But it 00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:41.319 is a thing of just kind of like I did forever 00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:44.460 buy into the like, we'll just fuck the people 00:28:44.460 --> 00:28:46.420 who are popular. And like, the question is, why? 00:28:46.759 --> 00:28:48.880 Why do we have that? Like, who are the people 00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:50.180 that are popular? They're just kind of the people 00:28:50.180 --> 00:28:52.750 who are like. attractive and charismatic and 00:28:52.750 --> 00:28:55.470 good at things like and other people tend to 00:28:55.470 --> 00:28:58.569 like them the people who are like the outcasts 00:28:58.569 --> 00:29:01.049 are generally the people who like bite other 00:29:01.049 --> 00:29:03.829 kids in eighth grade you know what i mean it's 00:29:03.829 --> 00:29:06.710 like and yeah those kids are the kids who are 00:29:06.710 --> 00:29:09.970 the hero in this movie and it's like you know 00:29:09.970 --> 00:29:11.990 just because you bite kids still doesn't mean 00:29:11.990 --> 00:29:14.450 you shouldn't be able to rape women too it's 00:29:14.450 --> 00:29:16.369 like i can't believe they made this movie and 00:29:16.369 --> 00:29:18.410 then ascribe that to the black struggle and whatever 00:29:18.410 --> 00:29:22.710 it's just like it's so incredibly like offensive 00:29:22.710 --> 00:29:26.480 just in every context And the idea that people 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:28.740 could not see that, who'd watch this and actually 00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:32.720 side with that, is so crazy to me. Yeah, and 00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:34.539 who knows how many people do. And I bet this 00:29:34.539 --> 00:29:36.839 is a movie that most people would find problematic 00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:39.779 now or whatever. And maybe even at the time. 00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:44.460 Part of what movies does is it exploits our darkest 00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:47.180 fantasies and makes them into a thing. And maybe 00:29:47.180 --> 00:29:49.559 that's part of what this movie did and was successful 00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:51.720 with. And people knew it was a dark fantasy or 00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:55.059 whatever. But I think that whole, I think that 00:29:55.059 --> 00:29:57.920 whole like notion to say, fuck the popular kids 00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:01.039 and stuff just gets to like, it's like you're, 00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:03.599 you're play acting in school at social hierarchy. 00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:07.920 Right. And I just think there's bottom line when 00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:10.079 you go out into the real world. Yeah. Like the 00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:11.839 people at the bottom of the social hierarchy 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:15.079 or the power hierarchy are like, fuck the people 00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:18.079 in power. Why do they get to be in power? What, 00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:20.359 what is it that's so good about them and all 00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:23.400 this kind of stuff. Right. Right. Like I, I remember 00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:26.900 being a kid, and, like, someone probably called 00:30:26.900 --> 00:30:28.900 me a nerd at some point. Like, of course I never, 00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:31.119 like, self -identified as a nerd or something, 00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:33.700 you know, but, like, I had really stupid, goofy 00:30:33.700 --> 00:30:37.079 glasses. I, like, didn't really care about how 00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:40.079 I dressed and stuff, so I dressed weird. And, 00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:43.619 I don't know, I had my own sort of, like, idiosyncratic, 00:30:43.619 --> 00:30:47.470 like, interests and things like that. I always 00:30:47.470 --> 00:30:48.829 kind of thought that like what it meant to be 00:30:48.829 --> 00:30:51.390 a popular kid was like to be a sort of poser. 00:30:51.470 --> 00:30:53.990 Like you kind of just like ascribe to whatever 00:30:53.990 --> 00:30:57.930 the culture has decided is important or popular. 00:30:58.509 --> 00:31:01.789 And you, you know, and I think that that extends 00:31:01.789 --> 00:31:03.690 out into the real world, not just in the school 00:31:03.690 --> 00:31:05.250 environment, but it all starts in that school 00:31:05.250 --> 00:31:08.690 environment of like, well, this is what the system 00:31:08.690 --> 00:31:10.769 says is popular. You want to have school spirit. 00:31:10.950 --> 00:31:13.269 You want to play in a sports team. You want to. 00:31:14.029 --> 00:31:17.470 Yada, yada. That's how you end up in a position 00:31:17.470 --> 00:31:19.849 to be part of a fraternity in the future and 00:31:19.849 --> 00:31:23.410 to get into the club, so to speak, so that you 00:31:23.410 --> 00:31:25.009 have power and influence when you're an adult. 00:31:25.549 --> 00:31:28.769 You have to have the charisma and social currency. 00:31:28.990 --> 00:31:32.950 You have to actually be a social person who has 00:31:32.950 --> 00:31:34.849 confidence, isn't afraid of what other people 00:31:34.849 --> 00:31:39.069 think. I was just the kind of kid who, if someone 00:31:39.069 --> 00:31:42.029 picked on me, I could not roll with those punches. 00:31:42.910 --> 00:31:45.849 And then it would turn me into a victim, someone 00:31:45.849 --> 00:31:47.789 that was easy to keep walking over. I'd become 00:31:47.789 --> 00:31:51.250 a doormat because my perspective was just kind 00:31:51.250 --> 00:31:52.630 of like, why can't people just treat me nice? 00:31:55.009 --> 00:31:58.190 It's like, what am I doing wrong? And so then 00:31:58.190 --> 00:32:02.049 you end up finding all your comfort in just being 00:32:02.049 --> 00:32:05.349 a homebody and playing video games or eventually 00:32:05.349 --> 00:32:07.849 going on the internet. And just like, this is 00:32:07.849 --> 00:32:12.309 where you sort of find your comfort zone. and 00:32:12.309 --> 00:32:15.509 where you're accepted and whatever. But yeah, 00:32:15.589 --> 00:32:18.289 I feel like. But that's a hyper individualistic 00:32:18.289 --> 00:32:21.529 idea of a life. Like, you know what I mean? It's, 00:32:21.529 --> 00:32:25.990 it's not, not, not finding value in like culture 00:32:25.990 --> 00:32:29.869 and society and you know, the work and all of 00:32:29.869 --> 00:32:32.789 the things outside of kind of your room, you 00:32:32.789 --> 00:32:35.990 know? Yeah, I hated sports. I hated, like, that 00:32:35.990 --> 00:32:37.450 was a place where I, because I, like, wasn't 00:32:37.450 --> 00:32:39.549 good at it, you know, and I guess I wasn't willing 00:32:39.549 --> 00:32:41.410 to get good at it, and I didn't care about it. 00:32:41.450 --> 00:32:43.690 I didn't think it was fun. I, like, wasn't, like, 00:32:43.730 --> 00:32:47.190 a physical person. I liked mental activities. 00:32:48.049 --> 00:32:50.309 I mean, I was always an artist, too. Like, I 00:32:50.309 --> 00:32:53.349 just like to draw. I just like to, you know, 00:32:53.410 --> 00:32:55.529 give me, like, a pen and paper, and I'll just, 00:32:55.589 --> 00:32:58.569 like, make art. And so, I don't know, like, it's 00:32:58.569 --> 00:33:00.170 funny that there isn't really, like, an art kid 00:33:00.170 --> 00:33:02.519 in Revenge of the Nerds. That's like associated 00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:05.220 with the nerds. Yeah. Not like, that's kind of 00:33:05.220 --> 00:33:07.319 like what my identity became where it's like, 00:33:07.420 --> 00:33:09.839 I'm not a jock. I'm not a nerd. I'm an art kid. 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:15.299 Yeah. And like art kids are a weird, like middle 00:33:15.299 --> 00:33:17.619 of the fence kind of. I think, I think that, 00:33:17.619 --> 00:33:20.220 I think that archetype kind of is post revenge 00:33:20.220 --> 00:33:22.079 of the nerds. I think, I think that archetype 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:24.079 kind of comes about with, I mean, they have burning 00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:26.359 down the house in there. But I think a lot of 00:33:26.359 --> 00:33:27.099 that comes with some... Yeah, I mean, the soundtrack 00:33:27.099 --> 00:33:29.680 is amazing, by the way. Like, there's thrillers 00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:32.380 in it. Like, there's so many, like, big, heavy 00:33:32.380 --> 00:33:34.920 -hitting songs in this movie. Yeah. But I think 00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:36.920 the art kid, like, that comes with the talking 00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:40.359 heads and irony and stuff that this movie doesn't 00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:43.690 really understand yet. but like, because it uses 00:33:43.690 --> 00:33:46.450 the talking heads in the context of the, the 00:33:46.450 --> 00:33:48.170 jocks burning down there. And it's like, well, 00:33:48.269 --> 00:33:50.390 is, is the talking heads jocks music to you? 00:33:50.670 --> 00:33:53.569 Like, is that, or is it just, this is just a 00:33:53.569 --> 00:33:55.970 literal title burning down the house and it's 00:33:55.970 --> 00:33:58.490 a popular song. So you did it in the scene where 00:33:58.490 --> 00:34:00.170 they're burning down the house. Like that's really 00:34:00.170 --> 00:34:02.309 probably what happened, but yeah, the music, 00:34:02.470 --> 00:34:04.750 the music is awesome, but like the choice of 00:34:04.750 --> 00:34:08.329 using it is kind of dumb. Yeah. The reason they're 00:34:08.329 --> 00:34:10.550 using every song is for like a really dumb reason 00:34:10.550 --> 00:34:12.550 that doesn't. actually have a lot of introspection 00:34:12.550 --> 00:34:14.550 about what the song is or what it means or what 00:34:14.550 --> 00:34:16.710 the band is. Except for Swing Low, Swing Chariot. 00:34:16.730 --> 00:34:20.550 That was the... Sure. That was a very good... 00:34:20.550 --> 00:34:24.090 That was one of my favorite racial jokes. They're 00:34:24.090 --> 00:34:25.650 like, let's put on something they don't like. 00:34:25.710 --> 00:34:27.610 It's on Swing Low, Swing Chariot. And then the 00:34:27.610 --> 00:34:29.889 gay black kid comes up and he's like, sorry. 00:34:30.030 --> 00:34:32.969 And he turns it off. As soon as he's like, Swing 00:34:32.969 --> 00:34:35.269 Low. He's like, nope, nope, next. Sorry, guys. 00:34:35.409 --> 00:34:38.170 They don't know. That was interesting, too, that 00:34:38.170 --> 00:34:41.019 like... the the nerds really just like couldn't 00:34:41.019 --> 00:34:44.239 party until they smoked weed yeah yeah like they 00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:46.739 just uh they needed the drugs which i i relate 00:34:46.739 --> 00:34:48.599 to that kind of shit too because i i'm really 00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:50.780 socially inept i mean i've gotten better as time 00:34:50.780 --> 00:34:52.980 went on but when i was a kid dude i was so socially 00:34:52.980 --> 00:34:55.559 inept yeah but i'm not i got better when i smoked 00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:58.000 a bunch of weed if i was like still in a nerd 00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:00.780 like I don't know. You know, I feel like if you're 00:35:00.780 --> 00:35:02.780 that in your head and like you can't talk to 00:35:02.780 --> 00:35:04.920 a girl at a party and you're all on opposite 00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:07.179 sides and then you smoke weed, it's like maybe 00:35:07.179 --> 00:35:09.000 if they started drinking, it might make more 00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:11.320 sense to me. But I feel like if they smoked weed. 00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:13.039 No, you're right. Like if they didn't. They would 00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:15.579 all just get even more. They would all just get 00:35:15.579 --> 00:35:18.239 even more like internal and just get even more 00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:19.780 awkward and weird. Yeah. They'd probably want 00:35:19.780 --> 00:35:21.619 to talk about their robots more or something 00:35:21.619 --> 00:35:24.059 with each other. Like, I don't know. Yeah. If 00:35:24.059 --> 00:35:25.840 you give them some beer and cocaine, maybe that 00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:29.750 would. Exactly. That's. A little cocaine is what 00:35:29.750 --> 00:35:31.250 was missing. It was 1984. Where's the cocaine? 00:35:31.610 --> 00:35:34.909 Yeah. I'm sure it was on set is where it was. 00:35:36.869 --> 00:35:42.610 For sure. For sure. But, yeah. I don't know, 00:35:42.650 --> 00:35:46.710 man. This is such a fucking weird, problematic 00:35:46.710 --> 00:35:50.329 movie. Yeah. For so many reasons. For so many 00:35:50.329 --> 00:35:52.989 reasons. But at the same time, so prescient. 00:35:53.150 --> 00:35:55.849 Like, really actually does say. It predicts the 00:35:55.849 --> 00:35:58.320 internet era. It predicts the internet era. It 00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:00.679 predicts the rise of the nerd in a real way. 00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:03.239 Yeah, the death of an old -style masculinity 00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:07.460 and the whole paradigm of perverts running the 00:36:07.460 --> 00:36:12.039 place by taking ownership of images of the popular 00:36:12.039 --> 00:36:15.199 women and then winning them from the jocks because 00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:18.139 they're more successful because they cheated 00:36:18.139 --> 00:36:22.400 through the paradigm. Yeah. I think if this movie 00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:26.170 was actually smarter and introspective, It could 00:36:26.170 --> 00:36:28.070 have actually been a really interesting conversation 00:36:28.070 --> 00:36:31.630 about power in general. Because what you are 00:36:31.630 --> 00:36:34.230 seeing is, yeah, you're seeing a hierarchy. You're 00:36:34.230 --> 00:36:36.449 seeing a social hierarchy that's determined by 00:36:36.449 --> 00:36:40.590 the system. And certain people benefit for being 00:36:40.590 --> 00:36:42.710 the ones who can plug into that matrix and other 00:36:42.710 --> 00:36:46.989 people's don't. And I think part of what's interesting 00:36:46.989 --> 00:36:51.389 is that, yeah, the jocks kind of suck, but they 00:36:51.389 --> 00:36:54.960 only suck because they have the power. And then 00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:57.860 once the nerds have the power, they suck just 00:36:57.860 --> 00:37:00.380 as much, if not more. Yeah, they suck much more. 00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:05.280 They suck more and they're unattractive and uncharismatic 00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:09.480 and are causing chaos. I mean, I guess the jocks 00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:12.139 are causing chaos, too. Fine. They are. I mean, 00:37:12.179 --> 00:37:14.300 the jocks are pretty chaotic. But, dude, everybody 00:37:14.300 --> 00:37:15.900 looks like they're having a good time at those 00:37:15.900 --> 00:37:18.949 jock parties at the beginning. Right. When you 00:37:18.949 --> 00:37:22.210 compare the intro of the nerds causing the chaos 00:37:22.210 --> 00:37:24.590 and trampling people on the lawn with the jocks 00:37:24.590 --> 00:37:26.769 who are just having a good time in their house. 00:37:26.889 --> 00:37:30.309 They throw a guy off the roof. They throw a guy 00:37:30.309 --> 00:37:33.809 off the roof. But that's fun. That's just good 00:37:33.809 --> 00:37:36.329 college fun. Yeah, it's just good college fun. 00:37:36.550 --> 00:37:38.449 It's super cartoony, honestly. It's also not 00:37:38.449 --> 00:37:41.349 a nerd that they throw off the roof. They're 00:37:41.349 --> 00:37:43.809 always throttling people and throwing them out 00:37:43.809 --> 00:37:45.710 windows and whatnot. Those are just other jocks 00:37:45.710 --> 00:37:48.250 who are like... happy to be there you know what 00:37:48.250 --> 00:37:49.829 i mean it's like dude this is an out of control 00:37:49.829 --> 00:37:51.469 party i got thrown out a window i got thrown 00:37:51.469 --> 00:37:54.449 off like whatever like we never see any i don't 00:37:54.449 --> 00:37:56.909 know any real violence the only thing that the 00:37:56.909 --> 00:37:58.750 that the jocks do to the nerds is they destroy 00:37:58.750 --> 00:38:01.929 their house after like in retaliation to like 00:38:01.929 --> 00:38:03.710 them cheating all the way through the whole competition 00:38:03.710 --> 00:38:06.869 like well the the jocks don't like that they 00:38:06.869 --> 00:38:09.730 renovate that other house Like, they drive by 00:38:09.730 --> 00:38:11.469 and, like, fuck these nerds. They renovated this 00:38:11.469 --> 00:38:13.630 house. Fuck them. And they throw, like, a brick 00:38:13.630 --> 00:38:15.190 through the window that says, get out, nerds, 00:38:15.190 --> 00:38:17.329 or whatever. Like, they're antagonizing them. 00:38:17.429 --> 00:38:19.409 And then there's the flaming nerds on their front 00:38:19.409 --> 00:38:21.010 lawn. It's really funny. When I was watching 00:38:21.010 --> 00:38:23.090 with Elise, I was like, dude, do you see that 00:38:23.090 --> 00:38:25.409 they're equating the fucking nerd struggle to 00:38:25.409 --> 00:38:28.449 the black struggle? And that, like, this is the 00:38:28.449 --> 00:38:30.349 new N -word and whatever. And Bob Lodge is like, 00:38:30.389 --> 00:38:31.909 I think this is a stretch. Yeah, exactly. I think 00:38:31.909 --> 00:38:33.750 this is a stretch. And then, like, during that 00:38:33.750 --> 00:38:35.429 scene, the brick comes through the window and 00:38:35.429 --> 00:38:37.789 there's a flaming nerd. It's literally, they're 00:38:37.789 --> 00:38:41.510 the KKK and they are the blacks. And what I was 00:38:41.510 --> 00:38:43.849 saying is, that's a stretch. And then as soon 00:38:43.849 --> 00:38:46.389 as it cuts, there's a flaming cross on the front 00:38:46.389 --> 00:38:48.250 lawn that says nerds on it. It's like, okay, 00:38:48.349 --> 00:38:49.610 it's not a stretch. I was like, yeah, I know. 00:38:49.809 --> 00:38:51.710 It's fucking ridiculous that they're doing this. 00:38:51.769 --> 00:38:53.690 Can you believe that they had the balls to do 00:38:53.690 --> 00:38:58.849 it? It's insane, this movie. It's totally insane. 00:38:59.489 --> 00:39:01.869 Because yeah, that is all just like really, really 00:39:01.869 --> 00:39:05.369 iconic. behavior of like racist white story black 00:39:05.369 --> 00:39:06.789 people yeah throw a brick through their window 00:39:06.789 --> 00:39:09.369 with a nasty message you light something on fire 00:39:09.369 --> 00:39:11.550 in their lawn but equating that with as if it's 00:39:11.550 --> 00:39:13.349 the same thing when you're talking about like 00:39:13.349 --> 00:39:16.369 these really annoying unattractive pieces of 00:39:16.369 --> 00:39:18.429 shit who are going to destroy the whole system 00:39:18.429 --> 00:39:21.369 so that they can rape our women it's like well 00:39:21.369 --> 00:39:23.130 i think that if you're equating those two things 00:39:23.130 --> 00:39:25.230 then you're a racist or you don't understand 00:39:25.230 --> 00:39:27.670 how bad your side like one of the two like you 00:39:27.670 --> 00:39:30.039 know what i mean Yeah, and that's why it ends 00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:32.519 up feeling so... That's why it ends up just being 00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:34.460 like, you can't root for these nerds. This is 00:39:34.460 --> 00:39:38.440 awful. Because the jocks, they throw a brick 00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:39.920 through their window and they light something 00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:42.219 on fire in their lawn. But what the nerds do, 00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:43.420 they set up a fucking surveillance. They rape 00:39:43.420 --> 00:39:46.139 their girlfriends. They rape their girlfriends 00:39:46.139 --> 00:39:49.440 and he prints his girlfriend's naked body on 00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:51.840 the bottom of those pie sheets and shit. Which 00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:55.139 allows him to win that contest. Yeah, exactly. 00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:57.539 They win the contest through revenge porn of 00:39:57.539 --> 00:40:00.920 the specific guy's girlfriend that he then is 00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:04.739 going to rape. It's like, that's my pie. And 00:40:04.739 --> 00:40:09.480 it's off of the sacrifice of that, you know, 00:40:09.500 --> 00:40:12.380 it's like the Mayans or whatever. You sacrifice 00:40:12.380 --> 00:40:14.780 the virgin and out of that, like, alchemy, you 00:40:14.780 --> 00:40:16.840 get, like, godly power or something. You walk 00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:19.260 around with her skin on you all day. Like, that's 00:40:19.260 --> 00:40:21.559 who the nerds are. Like, they're these evil, 00:40:21.739 --> 00:40:24.500 like, and it's, yes, it's toxic masculinity. 00:40:24.539 --> 00:40:27.000 Like, but just like an ancient and, like, actually 00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:29.619 toxic form as opposed to, like, the jocks are 00:40:29.619 --> 00:40:32.000 just kind of like. Their toxic masculinity, what? 00:40:32.059 --> 00:40:33.940 Because they're like getting all the women and 00:40:33.940 --> 00:40:36.340 they kind of are more attractive. And like, maybe 00:40:36.340 --> 00:40:37.840 they're not so nice to their girlfriends. Like 00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:39.820 the one, the one thing is the guy says like, 00:40:40.019 --> 00:40:42.619 like that's the one thing that the fucking jock 00:40:42.619 --> 00:40:44.880 does wrong to his girlfriend is like when she 00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:48.659 in the middle of the contest is like, I'm so 00:40:48.659 --> 00:40:50.800 horny from kissing other people. Let's go fuck 00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:54.650 right now. And he's just like. jesus you're like 00:40:54.650 --> 00:40:57.090 a goat like relax we're like in the middle of 00:40:57.090 --> 00:40:58.710 a thing right now why don't you wait like 20 00:40:58.710 --> 00:41:01.369 minutes and she's like no yeah i'm gonna go get 00:41:01.369 --> 00:41:03.130 raped by him and then she comes back and is like 00:41:03.130 --> 00:41:05.269 i'm gonna break up with you because you were 00:41:05.269 --> 00:41:07.630 so bad to me and it's like because he didn't 00:41:07.630 --> 00:41:09.349 like stop in the middle of what he was doing 00:41:09.349 --> 00:41:12.170 to go fuck you in a closet like during the day 00:41:12.170 --> 00:41:15.449 in the middle of a contest like What even, you 00:41:15.449 --> 00:41:17.570 know what I mean? You know what I'm, you know 00:41:17.570 --> 00:41:19.849 what I'm realizing now too, is that in the end, 00:41:19.849 --> 00:41:22.170 the women also get lumped in with the nerds that 00:41:22.170 --> 00:41:25.030 like their minorities. And you know what, and, 00:41:25.110 --> 00:41:26.789 and you know what they have in common with the 00:41:26.789 --> 00:41:28.630 nerds. They just want sex as well. That's like, 00:41:28.630 --> 00:41:30.710 what's so problematic about the portrayal of 00:41:30.710 --> 00:41:32.230 women in this movie is that they're all just 00:41:32.230 --> 00:41:35.030 like sex fiends who just want to be raped and 00:41:35.030 --> 00:41:37.730 fucked and fondled or whatever. Like the, the 00:41:37.730 --> 00:41:40.190 party that the nerds have with the, the, the 00:41:40.190 --> 00:41:43.130 moo girls or whatever. Yeah. You know, so there's 00:41:43.130 --> 00:41:44.750 a little bit of fat shaming in there, too, for 00:41:44.750 --> 00:41:48.010 a good measure. But, like, those girls just, 00:41:48.090 --> 00:41:49.769 like, are happy to just, like, get passed off 00:41:49.769 --> 00:41:52.250 and have their asses squeezed by dudes and whatever. 00:41:52.489 --> 00:41:54.530 Yeah, yeah, yeah. They want to be objectified. 00:41:55.130 --> 00:41:59.650 Fuck Poindexter for, like, no reason. He's, like, 00:41:59.710 --> 00:42:02.090 the most, like, awkward. Which is actually one 00:42:02.090 --> 00:42:04.889 of my favorite, like, exchanges in the whole 00:42:04.889 --> 00:42:07.190 movie, just as far as, like, a pure enjoyment 00:42:07.190 --> 00:42:13.280 of a line. It's just like, would you rather live 00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:16.260 during the ascendancy of a civilization or during 00:42:16.260 --> 00:42:20.500 its decline? Which is like, let's fuck. He's 00:42:20.500 --> 00:42:22.139 like, you want to fuck? He's like, I don't know. 00:42:23.420 --> 00:42:26.440 That actually really does sum it up a lot. It 00:42:26.440 --> 00:42:28.659 works. I like it. Yeah, it really works. Yeah. 00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:32.460 I mean, it works with the entire ascendancy and 00:42:32.460 --> 00:42:34.900 decline of masculinity, two different types of 00:42:34.900 --> 00:42:36.360 masculinity in the movie, which also are the 00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:37.960 same types of masculinity that we're talking 00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:40.079 about in 2001 and the right stuff and all the 00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:43.559 things that we've been talking about. No, yeah, 00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:46.840 this really is like an addendum to our 2001 conversation. 00:42:47.300 --> 00:42:50.739 Oh, completely. It really is just like a... A 00:42:50.739 --> 00:42:53.800 continuation of those ideals. It's the leaving 00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:56.480 behind of the Yeagers and the championing of 00:42:56.480 --> 00:42:58.719 the Neil Armstrongs or whatever. It's just like, 00:42:58.760 --> 00:43:01.440 what if Neil Armstrong got to rape Yeager's wife? 00:43:01.639 --> 00:43:03.659 Wouldn't that be so awesome? Check a movie about 00:43:03.659 --> 00:43:08.550 that. Fuck Chuck Yeager. Fuck any of these real 00:43:08.550 --> 00:43:11.769 men. He thinks he's so cool breaking the sound 00:43:11.769 --> 00:43:14.530 barrier. I can sit in a cell and then fuck his 00:43:14.530 --> 00:43:17.849 wife. I can fit. I can sit in a box all day and 00:43:17.849 --> 00:43:20.670 then fuck his wife without her consent. That 00:43:20.670 --> 00:43:24.650 would be my revenge. It's like the fucking grossest 00:43:24.650 --> 00:43:27.530 movie, dude. And he deserves it. Yeah, of course. 00:43:27.710 --> 00:43:29.550 Of course. Because the nerds deserve the win. 00:43:29.630 --> 00:43:32.750 It's like... It's the worst version of being 00:43:32.750 --> 00:43:34.429 self. Well, Jaeger deserves to have his wife 00:43:34.429 --> 00:43:36.369 fucked or whatever. Yeah. He deserves to have 00:43:36.369 --> 00:43:40.679 his wife fucked because he, what, is... too charismatic 00:43:40.679 --> 00:43:44.199 and attractive to be competed with. So he deserves 00:43:44.199 --> 00:43:47.380 to have his wife fucked by a troll. Like it's 00:43:47.380 --> 00:43:49.260 just, it's like, it's just because of their deficiency. 00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:51.500 It's just because they suck that they deserve 00:43:51.500 --> 00:43:54.119 all of this. And that is the liberal ideology. 00:43:54.300 --> 00:43:56.300 That's the, that's the, I am deficient. And so 00:43:56.300 --> 00:43:59.639 I deserve all of these things to be like, and 00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:02.380 it's, it's so gross. And I do really feel like 00:44:02.380 --> 00:44:05.719 Revenge of the Nerds is. I'm tentative to say 00:44:05.719 --> 00:44:07.920 it's the genesis of these ideas, but it is a 00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:11.679 genesis of these ideas. It is definitely an early 00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:16.880 adopter of these really, really toxic ideas of... 00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:21.880 Well, what does the main jock say? He says like... 00:44:22.090 --> 00:44:23.949 times are changing these nerds are a threat to 00:44:23.949 --> 00:44:25.849 our way of life soon we'll be up to our necks 00:44:25.849 --> 00:44:28.710 in nerd shit yeah like that shit is so great 00:44:28.710 --> 00:44:31.289 dude because he's right like it's like like at 00:44:31.289 --> 00:44:33.429 that point i feel so sorry for him like i feel 00:44:33.429 --> 00:44:35.730 so sorry for them because because he he really 00:44:35.730 --> 00:44:38.409 like is right and he sees what's happening yeah 00:44:38.409 --> 00:44:40.210 well they're gonna rape his wife and then his 00:44:40.210 --> 00:44:42.469 children are gonna be brought up by them showing 00:44:42.469 --> 00:44:45.349 him pornography and they're like literally like 00:44:45.349 --> 00:44:47.869 the nerds are taking over and destroying the 00:44:47.869 --> 00:44:50.369 world and the future for him and everybody he 00:44:50.369 --> 00:44:53.710 will ever care about It's like, actually, you 00:44:53.710 --> 00:44:56.730 should nip this in the bud. Like, why are they 00:44:56.730 --> 00:45:01.449 not killing all of the nerds? Exactly. Yeah, 00:45:01.510 --> 00:45:04.130 yeah. All you got to do is, like, replace the 00:45:04.130 --> 00:45:07.050 word nerd with Nazis and then it makes more sense. 00:45:07.230 --> 00:45:09.849 Like, it's like these two Nazis show up on campus 00:45:09.849 --> 00:45:13.909 and the jocks are like, Nazis! fuck them we gotta 00:45:13.909 --> 00:45:16.010 get them out of there fuck those pieces of shit 00:45:16.010 --> 00:45:18.230 you know it's just like yeah that's like essentially 00:45:18.230 --> 00:45:20.670 the dynamic like no it actually actually literally 00:45:20.670 --> 00:45:23.030 it literally is the dynamic and this is what 00:45:23.030 --> 00:45:25.750 we discussed in our in our 2001 episode and i 00:45:25.750 --> 00:45:27.250 don't even think i'd really put a button on at 00:45:27.250 --> 00:45:30.010 the end of but like we talked about childhood's 00:45:30.010 --> 00:45:34.280 end in the and the you know hiding hiding your 00:45:34.280 --> 00:45:37.739 true purpose for 50 years and that you know after 00:45:37.739 --> 00:45:40.119 the 50 years of childhood's end when they finally 00:45:40.119 --> 00:45:42.440 reveal themselves it shows that they are actually 00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:44.539 the worst thing they possibly could have been 00:45:44.539 --> 00:45:47.579 you know what i mean yeah exactly if you're confused 00:45:47.579 --> 00:45:49.860 about this go listen to our 2001 episode but 00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:54.739 the idea i think is that like these techno utopians 00:45:55.579 --> 00:45:57.860 The thing that they actually are is the worst 00:45:57.860 --> 00:46:00.219 possible thing that they could be. And what they 00:46:00.219 --> 00:46:02.280 will reveal 50 years later is that the worst 00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:05.300 possible thing that they could be is Nazis. That 00:46:05.300 --> 00:46:07.619 that is where they began and that's where they're 00:46:07.619 --> 00:46:09.780 going to eventually reveal themselves. Is that, 00:46:09.800 --> 00:46:12.880 no, this is a fascist Nazi paradigm. That's where 00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:16.000 nerds come from. That's where the, like, that's 00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:17.719 where the space program comes from. All of these 00:46:17.719 --> 00:46:22.829 things extend from specifically Nazis. And I 00:46:22.829 --> 00:46:24.389 think that in Revenge of the Nerds, you see that 00:46:24.389 --> 00:46:27.889 Nazi paradigm come in and take over and create 00:46:27.889 --> 00:46:31.889 this, you know, data algorithm exploitation of 00:46:31.889 --> 00:46:35.449 women, like taking over the system thing that 00:46:35.449 --> 00:46:37.550 the deficient people, the people who, you know, 00:46:37.550 --> 00:46:39.969 weren't good enough to be artists. You know what 00:46:39.969 --> 00:46:41.869 I mean? Who are like, I hate all the people who 00:46:41.869 --> 00:46:43.210 kept me from being an artist. They're all the 00:46:43.210 --> 00:46:45.030 ones that are deficient and I should be able 00:46:45.030 --> 00:46:47.309 to take over and put them in camps and then I 00:46:47.309 --> 00:46:49.789 could be the greatest. It's all this revenge, 00:46:49.889 --> 00:46:53.349 hatred at the society that kept you down. And 00:46:53.349 --> 00:46:55.670 why? Because you're actually not good at it. 00:46:55.869 --> 00:46:59.130 Because you're actually deficient. And you have 00:46:59.130 --> 00:47:01.489 terrible values. You have terrible values and 00:47:01.489 --> 00:47:03.110 all the people who are in charge don't want you 00:47:03.110 --> 00:47:06.179 to be in charge because you're... A piece of 00:47:06.179 --> 00:47:08.320 shit. Yeah, yeah. What I think is interesting 00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:10.840 is that the two main characters, Lewis and Gilbert, 00:47:11.039 --> 00:47:14.800 they have a bit of a weird dichotomy where Lewis 00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:18.420 is a bit more of a confident nerd. He's actually 00:47:18.420 --> 00:47:21.320 okay with talking to people and being social. 00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:24.440 He's perfectly happy. He's perfectly confident 00:47:24.440 --> 00:47:27.380 in approaching the sorority girls. He's a Jewish 00:47:27.380 --> 00:47:30.519 archetype. Asking. Yeah, and asking one out and 00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:32.880 stuff like that. But they're so dumb that they 00:47:32.880 --> 00:47:34.639 don't realize they're being manipulated and that 00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:37.219 they're being set up and stuff like that. They're 00:47:37.219 --> 00:47:41.039 pathetically stupid for most of the movie. But 00:47:41.039 --> 00:47:43.940 then you have Gilbert, which is, I think, meant 00:47:43.940 --> 00:47:47.500 to be more like the nice guy. And he doesn't 00:47:47.500 --> 00:47:50.239 rape a cheerleader. He doesn't try to go for 00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:53.039 the top of the pile. He ends up getting with 00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:57.539 another nerd girl. But even the way he does that, 00:47:57.869 --> 00:48:01.969 still feels so creepy like it's the scene where 00:48:01.969 --> 00:48:05.090 she's on the computer oh she's she's also she's 00:48:05.090 --> 00:48:07.329 also not good at computers or good at anything 00:48:07.329 --> 00:48:10.010 either she is just deficient yeah she's not she's 00:48:10.010 --> 00:48:11.730 not a nerd girl because she's good at anything 00:48:11.730 --> 00:48:16.090 or smart or anything she's just like a maladjusted 00:48:16.090 --> 00:48:20.309 person who is trying to connect to technology 00:48:20.309 --> 00:48:23.070 out of desperation not because she has any interest 00:48:23.070 --> 00:48:26.440 or understanding of it like you know yeah They 00:48:26.440 --> 00:48:28.199 fall in love because of their deficiencies, you 00:48:28.199 --> 00:48:31.980 know, the shape of water. But he, like, he comes 00:48:31.980 --> 00:48:34.019 up behind her, and she's like, it's inhuman. 00:48:34.099 --> 00:48:36.559 Like, why should I interface with this or whatever? 00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:39.320 And he's like... He's like, only a human can 00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:41.980 be inhuman. The computer's not human. And then 00:48:41.980 --> 00:48:44.559 he goes off on this little speech about how it 00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:47.920 gives you godlike power or something. He kind 00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:49.980 of gives the whole treatise of why the computer 00:48:49.980 --> 00:48:52.659 is so seductive to the nerd. Because with the 00:48:52.659 --> 00:48:55.340 computer, I can do anything. And I can have a 00:48:55.340 --> 00:48:58.099 godlike power and control over something. And 00:48:58.099 --> 00:49:01.019 I don't need its consent. And yada yada. And 00:49:01.019 --> 00:49:06.019 then he creates an animation. of like the him 00:49:06.019 --> 00:49:08.360 and the girl like holding hands and then dancing 00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:11.039 it's such a weird moment because it's like yeah 00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:13.480 he can't actually ask her out he can't actually 00:49:13.480 --> 00:49:17.599 socially like be up front about his desires he 00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:21.980 has to do this weird like backdoor creepy thing 00:49:21.980 --> 00:49:24.480 of like like that's another thing too like just 00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:26.599 like the rape later in the movie i feel like 00:49:26.599 --> 00:49:29.280 most girls in that scenario would feel really 00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:32.139 creeped out by that way of like coming on to 00:49:32.139 --> 00:49:35.039 them yeah you know Where you, like, you design 00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:38.099 an image of them, like... Holding your hand. 00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:41.079 Like, holding your hand. Falling in love with 00:49:41.079 --> 00:49:44.400 you. Yeah, it's, like, it's fucking weird, dude. 00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:47.199 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Gilbert's the one 00:49:47.199 --> 00:49:49.119 who gives the speech in the end, you know. And, 00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:51.900 like, this is supposed to be such a, like, resounding 00:49:51.900 --> 00:49:54.980 speech because the speech really is about, like... 00:49:55.420 --> 00:49:58.119 bringing in everybody else. He's like, for anybody 00:49:58.119 --> 00:50:01.019 who felt like they were, you know, picked on 00:50:01.019 --> 00:50:04.199 or misunderstood or never given a chance or yada 00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:07.699 yada, that's like him making the nerd pitch that 00:50:07.699 --> 00:50:10.340 like, join the Nazis. For anybody who didn't 00:50:10.340 --> 00:50:13.699 succeed under the previous paradigm. Fuck all 00:50:13.699 --> 00:50:16.840 of them. We're all on the same side against them. 00:50:17.099 --> 00:50:19.440 Whoever they are, they're the ones that are, 00:50:19.460 --> 00:50:21.539 you know, intelligent enough to be there. We're 00:50:21.539 --> 00:50:23.659 against them and we're going to tear down the 00:50:23.659 --> 00:50:26.139 whole thing because we have technology. We have 00:50:26.139 --> 00:50:28.739 IBM on our side and we're going to take over 00:50:28.739 --> 00:50:32.289 and like win all whatever we want because. they'll 00:50:32.289 --> 00:50:36.809 have no other choice. Exactly. It is an evil, 00:50:36.889 --> 00:50:39.730 evil movie. And anybody who doesn't understand 00:50:39.730 --> 00:50:42.150 that it's an evil movie, anybody who made this 00:50:42.150 --> 00:50:45.269 without knowing is, I just, it's so crazy to 00:50:45.269 --> 00:50:47.710 me. I kind of wish I had time to listen to the 00:50:47.710 --> 00:50:50.309 commentary. Yeah, I wanted to do that last night, 00:50:50.349 --> 00:50:54.090 too. I thought about it. Just see how these guys 00:50:54.090 --> 00:50:58.389 talk about this movie. I know, I know. It's too 00:50:58.389 --> 00:51:00.409 bad I didn't have that insight for this, but 00:51:00.409 --> 00:51:05.030 whatever. Honestly, I was thinking when watching 00:51:05.030 --> 00:51:08.070 it, I was like, yo, if you remade The Revenge 00:51:08.070 --> 00:51:11.690 of the Nerds as an A24 horror movie right now, 00:51:11.849 --> 00:51:15.489 it would work so well. Actually, yeah, yeah, 00:51:15.530 --> 00:51:17.630 totally. It's one of those topical psychological 00:51:17.630 --> 00:51:18.590 problems. It, like, basically is a horror movie. 00:51:18.750 --> 00:51:21.369 Like, it's, like, incredibly disturbing. And 00:51:21.369 --> 00:51:23.550 you could do it in a smarter way where, like, 00:51:23.590 --> 00:51:26.369 what's actually really disturbing about the nerds 00:51:26.369 --> 00:51:28.369 is that they wouldn't just, like, rape you and 00:51:28.369 --> 00:51:30.510 you'd thank them for it. Is that, like, they 00:51:30.510 --> 00:51:32.929 would act like the nice guy. They would seduce 00:51:32.929 --> 00:51:35.769 you and figure out ways to, like, trick you. 00:51:36.090 --> 00:51:39.389 And you would never really suspect that they 00:51:39.389 --> 00:51:42.130 had this kind of evil, dark impulse within them. 00:51:42.699 --> 00:51:46.699 they would just, like, have the calculus to manipulate 00:51:46.699 --> 00:51:48.679 you, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is what 00:51:48.679 --> 00:51:51.079 they've actually done to our culture. They're 00:51:51.079 --> 00:51:53.659 way too stupid in this movie. Like, the movie, 00:51:53.739 --> 00:51:56.579 like, it is prescient. The thing it ends up saying 00:51:56.579 --> 00:51:59.139 is true. But, like, on a play -by -play, it's, 00:51:59.179 --> 00:52:01.460 like, a dumb comedy that makes no sense and is 00:52:01.460 --> 00:52:05.059 super cartoony, right? Yeah. But, like, the reality 00:52:05.059 --> 00:52:07.719 of the situation is that, like, the nerd will 00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:10.260 get your consent, but they're going to manipulate 00:52:10.260 --> 00:52:12.460 you into that consent. It's going to be like 00:52:12.460 --> 00:52:14.880 the manufacturing of consent or whatever, you 00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:18.239 know? Maybe. I don't, I don't think that, I mean, 00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:21.179 I think that the internet was popularized through 00:52:21.179 --> 00:52:24.360 a lot of images of women that did not give their 00:52:24.360 --> 00:52:27.139 consent and whatnot. No, there's that aspect 00:52:27.139 --> 00:52:29.280 too. I just mean like the whole nice guy stereotype, 00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:31.739 like, like the girl who's just like, I just want 00:52:31.739 --> 00:52:35.079 to be with a nice guy, you know? But like, but 00:52:35.079 --> 00:52:37.480 the nice guy is like, well, he's the nice guy, 00:52:37.559 --> 00:52:40.079 but you know, not, not all nice guys are like 00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:42.380 this, but like, A lot of the nice guys are sexually 00:52:42.380 --> 00:52:44.360 repressed and didn't have a lot of sex. No, that's 00:52:44.360 --> 00:52:46.159 the thing, man. I think that that's the problem 00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:49.059 is that this movie sets up this weird binary 00:52:49.059 --> 00:52:53.920 of nice guy where that's not what the nerds are. 00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:58.340 And I think that's what I'm saying. As a 90s 00:52:58.340 --> 00:53:00.860 kid, I thought, like, fuck the jocks. I like 00:53:00.860 --> 00:53:02.760 the nerds. I like the nice guys and whatever. 00:53:03.179 --> 00:53:06.780 Nice guy, the jocks are nicer guys than the kid 00:53:06.780 --> 00:53:09.380 who bites other kids in eighth grade. The jocks 00:53:09.380 --> 00:53:12.019 are nicer guys. That's why people like them. 00:53:12.179 --> 00:53:14.619 And that's why they have a lot of friends. And 00:53:14.619 --> 00:53:16.719 that's why, like, I mean, there are other things. 00:53:16.739 --> 00:53:18.599 Maybe part of it has to do with them having bigger 00:53:18.599 --> 00:53:20.480 muscles and being able to be on a sports team 00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:23.280 or something. But that's like not that much of 00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:24.679 a part of it. A lot of it is that they're well 00:53:24.679 --> 00:53:29.539 -adjusted and likeable and don't need to, you 00:53:29.539 --> 00:53:32.699 know, spy on women and sell their pictures in 00:53:32.699 --> 00:53:35.219 order to be successful. Like they actually could 00:53:35.219 --> 00:53:38.099 be successful at a manly enterprise or something. 00:53:38.809 --> 00:53:40.429 Well, I guess like you were saying earlier on 00:53:40.429 --> 00:53:42.489 that this was made by nerds and it's an unreliable 00:53:42.489 --> 00:53:45.849 narrative. Like, isn't that like most of media 00:53:45.849 --> 00:53:48.329 culture? Like how many jocks go out and make 00:53:48.329 --> 00:53:50.849 movies? How many jocks go out and create the 00:53:50.849 --> 00:53:52.969 cultural conversation? Right. You know what I 00:53:52.969 --> 00:53:56.230 mean? And so is this even true? Like, I don't 00:53:56.230 --> 00:53:58.190 even really remember. Like, I got picked on by 00:53:58.190 --> 00:54:01.030 kids, but like. Like getting picked on had a 00:54:01.030 --> 00:54:03.510 lot more to do with my deficiencies, my inability 00:54:03.510 --> 00:54:06.570 to like cut the mustard and stuff. And I feel 00:54:06.570 --> 00:54:08.949 like if I went back, it's like as an adult now 00:54:08.949 --> 00:54:10.690 looking back, it's like, yeah, I could have just 00:54:10.690 --> 00:54:13.210 like owned who I was and been confident. And 00:54:13.210 --> 00:54:14.469 then they probably would have respected me for 00:54:14.469 --> 00:54:16.550 that. Right, right. But I think the part of it 00:54:16.550 --> 00:54:22.070 is that you were you were seduced by a like a 00:54:22.070 --> 00:54:25.369 Hollywood paradigm of I want to be an outsider. 00:54:26.119 --> 00:54:28.880 I am better because I am outsider. Because I 00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:30.719 don't fit in, I am better. I am better because 00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:33.940 I am against the thing. And it's not like punk 00:54:33.940 --> 00:54:36.260 rock. That's the big difference. It's not like 00:54:36.260 --> 00:54:38.079 punk rock where it's like, fuck this paradigm 00:54:38.079 --> 00:54:41.559 for these reasons or whatever. The nerd thing 00:54:41.559 --> 00:54:44.199 is the Nazi thing. It is, I am deficient, but 00:54:44.199 --> 00:54:48.889 I deserve. And that is it, you know? And I will 00:54:48.889 --> 00:54:51.170 do by any means necessary or whatever, not the 00:54:51.170 --> 00:54:53.130 black struggle by any means necessary, but the 00:54:53.130 --> 00:54:56.809 Nazi struggle. They're tying those together, 00:54:56.909 --> 00:55:01.690 not me. But yeah, they're literally willing to 00:55:01.690 --> 00:55:03.789 do anything, put whoever they want to in camps, 00:55:03.809 --> 00:55:07.690 like to steal their women and take the means 00:55:07.690 --> 00:55:09.469 of production of the next generation and blah, 00:55:09.530 --> 00:55:14.800 blah, blah. And it's... Only through these subversive 00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:18.880 and disgusting means, as opposed to through seduction 00:55:18.880 --> 00:55:22.019 and consent. Absolutely. But not only did we 00:55:22.019 --> 00:55:23.940 buy into this idea of how being the outsider 00:55:23.940 --> 00:55:26.599 is cool, but we've been inundated with countless 00:55:26.599 --> 00:55:31.099 images and films of the jocks just being these 00:55:31.099 --> 00:55:38.059 boars who are shitty. And honestly, in high school, 00:55:38.079 --> 00:55:39.889 I didn't have that experience at all. Like, I 00:55:39.889 --> 00:55:41.730 don't remember ever being picked on by a jock. 00:55:41.750 --> 00:55:43.590 I don't remember ever being picked on by someone 00:55:43.590 --> 00:55:45.750 who was in a sports team. Like, they just left 00:55:45.750 --> 00:55:48.349 us alone. Like, they had their own thing going 00:55:48.349 --> 00:55:52.610 on, you know? It's literally like the scene in 00:55:52.610 --> 00:55:56.670 Mad Men where Don Draper's in the elevator with... 00:55:56.670 --> 00:55:59.570 Ginsberg, Michael Ginsberg. What's his name? 00:55:59.650 --> 00:56:01.969 With Ginsberg, and he says, like, I feel sorry 00:56:01.969 --> 00:56:03.949 for you, and then Don's like, I don't think about 00:56:03.949 --> 00:56:06.869 you at all. Right, right. You know, like, that's... 00:56:07.759 --> 00:56:10.539 And that's literally after he says you're a jock 00:56:10.539 --> 00:56:13.619 in a fancy suit. I mean, that's the whole paradigm 00:56:13.619 --> 00:56:15.800 of that episode is Michael Ginsberg being like, 00:56:15.860 --> 00:56:17.840 oh, the only reason you got here is because you're 00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:20.260 fucking attractive. You're not even smart. I 00:56:20.260 --> 00:56:22.360 mean, it wasn't even Ginsberg. It was the other 00:56:22.360 --> 00:56:24.739 guy. It was the Jewish guy. I mean, they're both 00:56:24.739 --> 00:56:28.760 Jewish guys. It was the other shorter guy who 00:56:28.760 --> 00:56:32.139 was like, you're just like, you can't. never 00:56:32.139 --> 00:56:33.500 mind we're not gonna get into that whole episode 00:56:33.500 --> 00:56:36.480 of madman but yeah the point is an interesting 00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:41.360 parallel yeah yeah well well now that we've gotten 00:56:41.360 --> 00:56:43.380 off topic you want to move on to the next topic 00:56:43.380 --> 00:56:47.340 yeah i mean i was gonna say like like going back 00:56:47.340 --> 00:56:49.119 to the thing about like thinking about revenge 00:56:49.119 --> 00:56:51.719 of the nerds as a horror movie i then i thought 00:56:51.719 --> 00:56:53.719 like oh that's already kind of happened and it's 00:56:53.719 --> 00:56:57.750 the fly by david cronenberg Yeah, man, that's 00:56:57.750 --> 00:57:00.710 the truth. That's the truth. So you want to take 00:57:00.710 --> 00:57:02.349 a little break, then move on to that? Yeah, let's 00:57:02.349 --> 00:57:36.409 get to that next. All right, back from the break. 00:57:36.909 --> 00:57:43.690 We're back. So The Fly, we got the A24 horror 00:57:43.690 --> 00:57:47.610 of Revenge of the Nerds sort of thing going on. 00:57:48.889 --> 00:57:53.710 Yeah, in some ways. It's like, yeah, I wouldn't 00:57:53.710 --> 00:57:57.780 say The Fly is like... incredibly preoccupied 00:57:57.780 --> 00:58:01.699 with that narrative but it's so much a part of 00:58:01.699 --> 00:58:05.019 this movie whether intentionally or not because 00:58:05.019 --> 00:58:07.440 i think like cronenberg obviously like if you're 00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:09.340 just going to go with authorial intent and stuff 00:58:09.340 --> 00:58:11.519 cronenberg was very much making a movie about 00:58:11.519 --> 00:58:14.539 like someone dealing with like a debilitative 00:58:14.539 --> 00:58:19.260 disease and uh aging and stuff like that and 00:58:19.260 --> 00:58:21.929 like That's like what he's kind of like openly 00:58:21.929 --> 00:58:24.389 said about the movie. And even when it came out, 00:58:24.429 --> 00:58:25.989 like there was tons of people because it came 00:58:25.989 --> 00:58:28.929 out in 86. You know, it's kind of the height 00:58:28.929 --> 00:58:32.170 of the AIDS epidemic or during the AIDS epidemic 00:58:32.170 --> 00:58:35.010 at the very least. And a lot of people thought 00:58:35.010 --> 00:58:38.489 this movie was about AIDS and stuff. And he said 00:58:38.489 --> 00:58:41.510 that that was not the intent, but that if people 00:58:41.510 --> 00:58:43.449 have that outlook on it, he's totally fine with 00:58:43.449 --> 00:58:46.619 that, which basically just gives you. carte blanche 00:58:46.619 --> 00:58:49.320 to interpret Cronenberg's work however you like. 00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:51.480 He's given you permission to do it. There's a 00:58:51.480 --> 00:58:54.619 lot of stuff going on in this movie that goes 00:58:54.619 --> 00:58:58.719 far beyond just this narrative about aging or 00:58:58.719 --> 00:59:02.960 having a terminal cancer or whatever. Yeah, no, 00:59:03.019 --> 00:59:06.599 sure. And that is the nerd aspect and the jock 00:59:06.599 --> 00:59:11.360 nerd dynamic and the seduction of the woman to 00:59:11.360 --> 00:59:14.000 the nerd side of things and all that's there. 00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:19.119 No, I totally agree. But I also think that part 00:59:19.119 --> 00:59:21.320 of the thing is, to me, Cronenberg is one of 00:59:21.320 --> 00:59:23.960 these directors who makes the same movie over 00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:26.380 and over and over. And they're all different, 00:59:26.500 --> 00:59:30.619 and many of them, I think, are great. In fact, 00:59:30.639 --> 00:59:32.980 most of them, I think, are great. I really like 00:59:32.980 --> 00:59:36.019 a lot of the ones that people don't. So yeah, 00:59:36.099 --> 00:59:38.699 I think Cronenberg's one of these guys who, even 00:59:38.699 --> 00:59:40.559 though many of his movies are very different, 00:59:40.760 --> 00:59:44.159 they're always on. the same subjects. And I think 00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:48.480 that the subject is almost always man and technology. 00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:54.500 Basically, how technology is perverting humanity, 00:59:54.800 --> 01:00:00.480 our desires, our, you know, our bodies. Sure. 01:00:00.579 --> 01:00:02.659 But it's almost always that exact same subject. 01:00:02.760 --> 01:00:07.789 And I think that The Fly is one of the... you 01:00:07.789 --> 01:00:10.989 know, most direct ones of those where we're watching 01:00:10.989 --> 01:00:15.010 technology actually sort of pervert this man's 01:00:15.010 --> 01:00:18.250 body and desires and all of these things and 01:00:18.250 --> 01:00:21.809 him become sort of a new being. But I think that 01:00:21.809 --> 01:00:25.610 that transformation, while in the movie, the 01:00:25.610 --> 01:00:28.909 catalyst for this is this fly getting in the 01:00:28.909 --> 01:00:32.730 machine. I don't think that he is becoming a 01:00:32.730 --> 01:00:35.030 fly. I don't think that what we're talking about 01:00:35.030 --> 01:00:37.960 has anything really to do with insects. I think 01:00:37.960 --> 01:00:39.760 his conversation about insect politics is not 01:00:39.760 --> 01:00:42.840 about insects. I think that all of this is about 01:00:42.840 --> 01:00:49.179 technology and data and binary coding and nerd 01:00:49.179 --> 01:00:52.119 shit, basically. Yeah. I mean, like one thing 01:00:52.119 --> 01:00:54.380 I thought when it was over is like, you know, 01:00:54.400 --> 01:00:56.460 when he has this is during the insects politics 01:00:56.460 --> 01:00:59.949 speech. But when he says. I was a fly who dreamed 01:00:59.949 --> 01:01:02.730 he was a man, but now that dream is dead or over 01:01:02.730 --> 01:01:04.909 or whatever. Yeah, and loved it. And loved it, 01:01:04.969 --> 01:01:06.849 yeah. I was a fly who dreamed he was a man and 01:01:06.849 --> 01:01:10.809 loved it, and now that dream is over. I was thinking, 01:01:10.849 --> 01:01:13.670 like, really, like, the fly is just a stand -in 01:01:13.670 --> 01:01:16.010 for, like, the machine or whatever. Like, it's 01:01:16.010 --> 01:01:18.869 not about insects exactly. That it's, like, really 01:01:18.869 --> 01:01:21.650 what's happening is he's, like, merging with 01:01:21.650 --> 01:01:24.320 the machine. Well, because what the machine is 01:01:24.320 --> 01:01:27.019 doing is it's creating an interpretation of himself. 01:01:27.179 --> 01:01:30.639 So he's becoming a simulacrum. So he, what he's 01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:32.860 a machine, it's a machine who dreamt it was a 01:01:32.860 --> 01:01:37.460 man. And now that dream is over. Right. But like 01:01:37.460 --> 01:01:39.940 he even merges with the machine quite literally 01:01:39.940 --> 01:01:42.559 at the very end. Right. That's like the final 01:01:42.559 --> 01:01:47.119 moment. Right. And the, and the what chair or 01:01:47.119 --> 01:01:50.440 something? No, it's just the, he's like, he's 01:01:50.440 --> 01:01:53.789 standing like halfway out of the pod. It says 01:01:53.789 --> 01:01:58.269 what Brundlefly is combining with, though, on 01:01:58.269 --> 01:02:00.250 the screen at one point, I'm pretty sure. It 01:02:00.250 --> 01:02:03.550 says Brundlefly and... It doesn't say Antelepod. 01:02:04.289 --> 01:02:06.949 Or it doesn't say Andor. I think it says Andor. 01:02:07.630 --> 01:02:10.710 I don't know. I feel like it just said Antelepod, 01:02:10.789 --> 01:02:14.090 but whatever. He gets fused with a section of 01:02:14.090 --> 01:02:17.369 the machine itself. And he comes out as this 01:02:17.369 --> 01:02:21.590 weird fly -human robot. hybrid thing all these 01:02:21.590 --> 01:02:23.869 tubes sticking out of him and all this like right 01:02:23.869 --> 01:02:26.489 you know at that point he asks for his own death 01:02:26.489 --> 01:02:30.530 right but yeah i just think like to have like 01:02:30.530 --> 01:02:33.690 a very literal representation of him merging 01:02:33.690 --> 01:02:36.369 with the machine at the very end i think lends 01:02:36.369 --> 01:02:38.809 to the entire narrative of just like that's what's 01:02:38.809 --> 01:02:40.869 been happening the whole time yeah but it was 01:02:40.869 --> 01:02:43.829 also the first time they have sex um before he 01:02:43.829 --> 01:02:45.530 even goes through the transporter something gets 01:02:45.530 --> 01:02:48.179 stuck in his back And it's a chip. No, exactly. 01:02:48.300 --> 01:02:50.019 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the first thing. 01:02:50.039 --> 01:02:52.119 He gets a chip plugged into him. That's the first 01:02:52.119 --> 01:02:54.579 thing that sort of penetrates him. And, you know, 01:02:54.599 --> 01:02:57.659 that's the first place that the fly hairs come 01:02:57.659 --> 01:03:00.760 out of. It is, yeah. And so even though it's 01:03:00.760 --> 01:03:02.360 the transporter that's doing this and whatever, 01:03:02.579 --> 01:03:05.420 like there's an emphasis on this is coming from 01:03:05.420 --> 01:03:08.840 the scar of the, you know, technology penetrating 01:03:08.840 --> 01:03:12.480 you and becoming a part of you. And also the 01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:17.460 actual literal, like, The process by which the 01:03:17.460 --> 01:03:20.460 transporter works, the sci -fi idea behind it 01:03:20.460 --> 01:03:23.519 or whatever, is that this is a computer that 01:03:23.519 --> 01:03:27.079 is transporting this through downloading it into 01:03:27.079 --> 01:03:32.260 data and then reassembling it later. And so there's 01:03:32.260 --> 01:03:34.840 the whole part of the movie about the meat making 01:03:34.840 --> 01:03:37.300 him crazy or whatever. The flesh. The flesh would 01:03:37.300 --> 01:03:42.820 make you crazy. Long live the new flesh. That 01:03:42.820 --> 01:03:46.059 is about the machine not being able to interpret 01:03:46.059 --> 01:03:49.400 reality in the way that a human mind can and 01:03:49.400 --> 01:03:51.440 stuff. And that this transporting it into binary 01:03:51.440 --> 01:03:55.699 has lost the essence of life. And then he feels 01:03:55.699 --> 01:03:58.019 like he figures that out or whatever and it works 01:03:58.019 --> 01:04:01.079 or something. But we know that it doesn't work. 01:04:01.119 --> 01:04:02.860 There's something that's wrong with it or whatever. 01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:04.920 And yes, in this movie, there is the catalyst 01:04:04.920 --> 01:04:09.050 of the fly that shows the bug. in the machine, 01:04:09.250 --> 01:04:12.710 the bug in the system. But it's really a stand 01:04:12.710 --> 01:04:15.050 -in for the bug in the system. It's the glitch. 01:04:15.309 --> 01:04:17.110 It's the thing. It's the thing that can't interpret 01:04:17.110 --> 01:04:19.650 reality. I mean, we talked about this in 2001, 01:04:19.750 --> 01:04:23.130 but downloading reality into binary coding, like 01:04:23.130 --> 01:04:26.329 that is the idea that you can reproduce reality 01:04:26.329 --> 01:04:28.630 through binary coding, through ones and zeros, 01:04:28.650 --> 01:04:32.130 is a techno -utopian sort of transhumanist idea. 01:04:32.800 --> 01:04:35.059 And it's, I think that Cronenberg is saying that 01:04:35.059 --> 01:04:37.119 it's incorrect that when you start with this 01:04:37.119 --> 01:04:40.420 human in this movie and then he becomes this 01:04:40.420 --> 01:04:42.320 transhumanist idea, what are all the things that 01:04:42.320 --> 01:04:45.099 change with that? You know what I mean? That's 01:04:45.099 --> 01:04:46.579 the thing that I think is so interesting and 01:04:46.579 --> 01:04:50.320 so connected to Revenge of the Nerds. This is 01:04:50.320 --> 01:04:53.440 this guy becoming basically his work, becoming 01:04:53.440 --> 01:04:56.820 this machine, becoming his, you know, this nerd 01:04:56.820 --> 01:04:59.820 focus. And what it is, just like this singular 01:04:59.820 --> 01:05:04.179 focus on a thing. That keeps him from being able 01:05:04.179 --> 01:05:06.139 to have, you know, normal relationships with 01:05:06.139 --> 01:05:08.599 people outside of this. I mean, he does have 01:05:08.599 --> 01:05:11.659 the swag. He's got a little bit of the Lewis 01:05:11.659 --> 01:05:14.840 swag that Robert Carradine from Revenge of the 01:05:14.840 --> 01:05:16.219 Nerds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lizzie McGuire's dad. 01:05:16.380 --> 01:05:17.639 Yeah, he does. He's got a little bit of that 01:05:17.639 --> 01:05:20.420 Jewish sort of swag. He's a little cute. Yeah, 01:05:20.420 --> 01:05:22.820 yeah, yeah. I mean, everybody talks about how 01:05:22.820 --> 01:05:24.579 sexy he is in this movie or whatever. I think 01:05:24.579 --> 01:05:27.960 he looks kind of weird, but, like, I'm not attracted 01:05:27.960 --> 01:05:31.349 to men in the way that, like. He has a great 01:05:31.349 --> 01:05:33.949 body and stuff. Yeah, yeah. He's very fit. He's 01:05:33.949 --> 01:05:36.130 got the great Jeff Goldblum chest that he sports 01:05:36.130 --> 01:05:41.449 at Jurassic Park as well. Totally, totally. He's 01:05:41.449 --> 01:05:48.449 a beautiful, very fit archetype of suave, Jewish, 01:05:48.769 --> 01:05:54.369 intellectual. But he is in many ways a nerd. 01:05:54.869 --> 01:05:57.309 That's like very much. He's coded as a nerd. 01:05:58.429 --> 01:06:00.150 He does not seem like the type of guy who's confident 01:06:00.150 --> 01:06:02.710 with women. And the first time that he has sex, 01:06:02.769 --> 01:06:06.590 I mean, that first sex scene is disgusting. We 01:06:06.590 --> 01:06:08.570 only kind of see the very end of it or whatever, 01:06:08.710 --> 01:06:13.989 but he's just going to... Just, like, humping 01:06:13.989 --> 01:06:18.349 her. It's really, like, gross, like, nerd sex, 01:06:18.570 --> 01:06:22.599 you know? He seems to be like sexually repressed, 01:06:22.659 --> 01:06:24.800 like he's not having a lot of sex. Yeah, yeah, 01:06:24.800 --> 01:06:27.239 yeah, exactly. And he's just kind of like finally 01:06:27.239 --> 01:06:28.400 getting this one nut out. It's a wonderful set 01:06:28.400 --> 01:06:31.880 of circumstances, yeah, that this girl has taken 01:06:31.880 --> 01:06:33.780 an interest in him. It's because he's put all 01:06:33.780 --> 01:06:35.860 of his eggs into this basket of this thing that 01:06:35.860 --> 01:06:37.920 he's produced and then this thing that he's produced 01:06:37.920 --> 01:06:40.980 is enough to attract this woman's interest. It's 01:06:40.980 --> 01:06:44.239 certainly not his swagger or his looks that attract 01:06:44.239 --> 01:06:47.320 her initially, exactly. She's not even really 01:06:47.320 --> 01:06:49.440 impressed by his piano playing when she first 01:06:49.440 --> 01:06:52.840 walks in. Right. And he also, he scams her. He 01:06:52.840 --> 01:06:56.820 scams her. This is like, he does basically just 01:06:56.820 --> 01:07:00.829 like fucking, what's the, like, manosphere. pickup 01:07:00.829 --> 01:07:03.610 artist shit to like scam this woman into coming 01:07:03.610 --> 01:07:06.130 to a secondary location or something like you 01:07:06.130 --> 01:07:07.690 know i mean he scams her into coming back to 01:07:07.690 --> 01:07:09.190 his apartment and then be interested in his thing 01:07:09.190 --> 01:07:11.289 when he knows that he's not going to let her 01:07:11.289 --> 01:07:13.570 write about this thing in order to then trick 01:07:13.570 --> 01:07:15.429 her into being the person who writes about this 01:07:15.429 --> 01:07:17.190 thing for him and becomes his like secretary 01:07:17.190 --> 01:07:19.590 and his girl and is what i like you know what 01:07:19.590 --> 01:07:21.329 i mean well that's that's the point right is 01:07:21.329 --> 01:07:23.909 that i think her like supposed attraction to 01:07:23.909 --> 01:07:27.309 him is like something that is retroactively justified 01:07:27.309 --> 01:07:30.119 because of her interest in the story Exactly. 01:07:30.139 --> 01:07:32.579 Like he offers something to her that she, that 01:07:32.579 --> 01:07:35.539 will benefit her. Right. And her career and whatever 01:07:35.539 --> 01:07:38.840 he gives her. She may or may not even be interested 01:07:38.840 --> 01:07:42.739 in him outside of the story. I mean, once the 01:07:42.739 --> 01:07:45.159 story is done, this is the best way to get this 01:07:45.159 --> 01:07:47.159 story is to sleep with the guy and videotape 01:07:47.159 --> 01:07:48.920 the things and do whatever. Like this is the 01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:53.119 greatest story of a lifetime, but. It doesn't 01:07:53.119 --> 01:07:55.059 really have anything to do with him or his anything. 01:07:55.199 --> 01:07:57.880 It's just that he's presented this to her and 01:07:57.880 --> 01:08:00.500 that she is accepting that and giving back to 01:08:00.500 --> 01:08:03.000 him what he expects. You know what I mean? And 01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:04.900 it doesn't really bode well for her character 01:08:04.900 --> 01:08:07.099 either because she ends up kind of just seeming 01:08:07.099 --> 01:08:09.800 like an opportunistic person who doesn't really 01:08:09.800 --> 01:08:13.079 care about him and stuff like that. They're both 01:08:13.079 --> 01:08:16.479 doing it for their own personal benefits. Of 01:08:16.479 --> 01:08:20.189 course. The sort of like caveat and context for 01:08:20.189 --> 01:08:22.310 why she's doing it is because she just got out 01:08:22.310 --> 01:08:24.310 of a relationship with a guy who's like the exact 01:08:24.310 --> 01:08:26.550 opposite of him. Well, the other thing is we 01:08:26.550 --> 01:08:28.850 don't even know how recently they've gotten out 01:08:28.850 --> 01:08:30.770 of this relationship or if they are even out 01:08:30.770 --> 01:08:34.949 of this relationship. I mean, she says, why are 01:08:34.949 --> 01:08:36.989 you here and whatever? Like she's mad at him, 01:08:37.029 --> 01:08:38.890 but he still has her keys. And then she's like, 01:08:38.909 --> 01:08:40.090 give them back. And he's like, no, I think I'll 01:08:40.090 --> 01:08:42.369 keep them. And she doesn't demand them back. 01:08:42.829 --> 01:08:45.859 And I think that when you see her later, And 01:08:45.859 --> 01:08:48.779 Brundlefly is about to like rape this woman in 01:08:48.779 --> 01:08:50.399 his apartment and impregnate her and whatever. 01:08:50.699 --> 01:08:52.960 She's like, no, get out of here. I'll take care 01:08:52.960 --> 01:08:56.329 of this. She is strong. She is so strong. She 01:08:56.329 --> 01:08:58.869 can deal with Brundlefly who can literally break 01:08:58.869 --> 01:09:01.829 her in half. Like she's not afraid to talk to 01:09:01.829 --> 01:09:04.250 this man or tell him to give her fucking keys 01:09:04.250 --> 01:09:06.010 back. No, she's playing a fucking game. Like 01:09:06.010 --> 01:09:08.590 this is, this is the thing. Like this guy, exactly. 01:09:08.750 --> 01:09:11.470 This guy is behaving in a way that we see as 01:09:11.470 --> 01:09:14.770 like totally toxic male behavior. And like, he's 01:09:14.770 --> 01:09:17.710 being jealous. Like he's very jealous and he's 01:09:17.710 --> 01:09:20.949 throwing temper tantrums, but like, it's quite 01:09:20.949 --> 01:09:22.630 possible. This is his like girlfriend of like 01:09:22.630 --> 01:09:25.840 three years who like, found this story, got in 01:09:25.840 --> 01:09:28.119 a fight with him on Friday, and then is like, 01:09:28.340 --> 01:09:30.119 no, I'm going to sleep over at his house. And 01:09:30.119 --> 01:09:31.380 he's just like, are you fucking serious? And 01:09:31.380 --> 01:09:32.859 I'm like, yes, I watched you all night and whatever. 01:09:32.979 --> 01:09:35.220 It's like, yeah, he's acting crazy. But like, 01:09:35.300 --> 01:09:38.479 do we have context to know how crazy he's acting? 01:09:38.619 --> 01:09:40.880 Like, you know what I mean? Like his jealousy 01:09:40.880 --> 01:09:44.399 and his behavior and his desire to control her. 01:09:44.960 --> 01:09:47.739 Like, yeah, this is toxic male behavior. But 01:09:47.739 --> 01:09:52.439 I think that she, if it was. threatening to her, 01:09:52.539 --> 01:09:56.560 would be perfectly able to handle it. And there's 01:09:56.560 --> 01:09:58.220 nothing in the movie that makes me think that 01:09:58.220 --> 01:09:59.779 she couldn't kick this guy out of her house, 01:09:59.779 --> 01:10:02.159 take the keys, and be like, fuck you. In fact, 01:10:02.180 --> 01:10:05.619 she walks all over him the entire movie. He sent 01:10:05.619 --> 01:10:08.680 her to this thing as a journalist, and she's 01:10:08.680 --> 01:10:13.279 not going to write the story? What are you talking 01:10:13.279 --> 01:10:15.020 about? No, I'm just going to leave and write 01:10:15.020 --> 01:10:18.159 it. myself like that is illegal it's not and 01:10:18.159 --> 01:10:20.739 he's just like okay i'll let you do it he's only 01:10:20.739 --> 01:10:23.060 like really pig -headed in his rhetoric and stuff 01:10:23.060 --> 01:10:26.880 and the way he talks and like it but like he's 01:10:26.880 --> 01:10:29.800 so supportive of her and her career and her future 01:10:29.800 --> 01:10:32.760 like the only thing that he does is he is jealous 01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:34.680 about the fact that she is sleeping with this 01:10:34.680 --> 01:10:37.199 guy who is her story that she may or may not 01:10:37.199 --> 01:10:39.920 even care about and he thinks that this nerd 01:10:39.920 --> 01:10:42.199 is dangerous and that like he's actually concerned 01:10:42.199 --> 01:10:44.520 about her or whatever and yes he's jealous too 01:10:45.790 --> 01:10:47.970 And it's because he wants to possess her, sure. 01:10:48.069 --> 01:10:50.949 But it's because he wants to possess her in a 01:10:50.949 --> 01:10:54.409 way that is not nearly as toxic as what Brundlefly 01:10:54.409 --> 01:10:58.149 wants to do. You know what I mean? Sure. And 01:10:58.149 --> 01:10:59.770 this is the thing. Well, Brundlefly wants to 01:10:59.770 --> 01:11:02.770 put her through the teleporter. Exactly. He wants 01:11:02.770 --> 01:11:04.510 to merge with her. He wants to bring her into 01:11:04.510 --> 01:11:07.369 the cult. He wants to merge with her, yeah. And 01:11:07.369 --> 01:11:09.329 by the end, he wants to become one with her. 01:11:10.560 --> 01:11:12.859 In order to. And the baby. I mean, yeah. And 01:11:12.859 --> 01:11:16.060 the baby. I mean, he wants the most total toxic 01:11:16.060 --> 01:11:18.739 male ownership of her body. He wants to actually 01:11:18.739 --> 01:11:23.680 be it. I mean, he is more toxic than any jock 01:11:23.680 --> 01:11:26.899 archetype could ever be. And it seems like at 01:11:26.899 --> 01:11:29.539 first, like, oh, he's not threatening. He's a 01:11:29.539 --> 01:11:32.739 nerd. He's sweet. He's like, you know, he's not 01:11:32.739 --> 01:11:36.000 like the guy that I was just with who, you know, 01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:38.260 wants to control me and wants to. It's like, 01:11:38.300 --> 01:11:41.750 no, no, no. This guy. wants to control you like 01:11:41.750 --> 01:11:44.350 that other guy was just a man and he had testosterone 01:11:44.350 --> 01:11:47.010 and sorry he had testosterone and was upset that 01:11:47.010 --> 01:11:49.350 you were fucking somebody else right after you 01:11:49.350 --> 01:11:51.770 broke up or whatever and who is actually very 01:11:51.770 --> 01:11:54.550 dangerous and trying to hurt you like that's 01:11:54.550 --> 01:11:56.869 that's what he did wrong what brundlefly is doing 01:11:56.869 --> 01:12:01.390 wrong is insane but that is exactly the same 01:12:01.390 --> 01:12:04.220 as revenge of the nerds yeah he becomes a he 01:12:04.220 --> 01:12:07.319 becomes a literal monster, you know, and a literal 01:12:07.319 --> 01:12:09.500 monster who's like losing his mind and would 01:12:09.500 --> 01:12:13.060 kill her. Yeah. Or like, you know, merge with 01:12:13.060 --> 01:12:15.739 her or whatever it is. It's just like, that is 01:12:15.739 --> 01:12:18.399 like the nerd, just like without consent, taking 01:12:18.399 --> 01:12:20.960 what he thinks he deserves. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever 01:12:20.960 --> 01:12:24.260 to justify his own bullshit deficiency. Yeah. 01:12:24.319 --> 01:12:27.640 To try to fill in for his deficiency. Like, yeah. 01:12:27.760 --> 01:12:30.420 Yeah. And then the, the moment that status, because 01:12:30.420 --> 01:12:32.670 obviously. Like, the moment you realize, Daph, 01:12:32.729 --> 01:12:35.170 this is a really good dude is, like, when she 01:12:35.170 --> 01:12:38.750 reveals to him that she's pregnant with Seth's 01:12:38.750 --> 01:12:41.489 kid. And he's just like, what do you want to 01:12:41.489 --> 01:12:44.569 do? Right. Like, he's, like, absolutely just 01:12:44.569 --> 01:12:47.170 wanted to, like, there's no better test for, 01:12:47.210 --> 01:12:50.149 like, a good dude than, like, giving him the 01:12:50.149 --> 01:12:52.069 news that you're pregnant. With somebody else's 01:12:52.069 --> 01:12:55.840 kid. with somebody else's kid and him just being 01:12:55.840 --> 01:12:57.060 like well what do you want to do he's not like 01:12:57.060 --> 01:12:58.579 immediately like you need to get an abortion 01:12:58.579 --> 01:13:01.180 no he's like i i'm here for you whatever you 01:13:01.180 --> 01:13:03.840 need at the moment's notice and like i want to 01:13:03.840 --> 01:13:05.720 do it right now in the middle of the night like 01:13:05.720 --> 01:13:09.039 okay i'll i'll like i'll figure it out he's like 01:13:09.039 --> 01:13:12.039 i'll make the calls yeah like i'll do it and 01:13:12.039 --> 01:13:14.819 yeah that is like what makes it so connected 01:13:14.819 --> 01:13:16.760 to revenge of the nerds as well as just this 01:13:16.760 --> 01:13:20.439 whole jock nerd dynamic and how the nerds just 01:13:20.439 --> 01:13:23.199 end up being so much more evil or whatever. Right, 01:13:23.199 --> 01:13:25.260 because of their deficiencies and their need 01:13:25.260 --> 01:13:28.239 to correct for that deficiency. And they use 01:13:28.239 --> 01:13:31.279 this cover of this nerd thing that we've accepted 01:13:31.279 --> 01:13:36.239 as non -threatening, but it is the most threatening. 01:13:36.399 --> 01:13:39.460 I mean, it is insect politics. That's, you know 01:13:39.460 --> 01:13:41.899 what I mean? Yeah, it's insect politics, yeah. 01:13:42.100 --> 01:13:44.920 It's the computer's interpretation of humanity. 01:13:45.659 --> 01:13:49.220 It's... Insects don't have politics. I'd like 01:13:49.220 --> 01:13:51.300 to be the first insect politician. They're very 01:13:51.300 --> 01:13:54.420 brutal. I mean, this is fascism. This is what 01:13:54.420 --> 01:13:57.699 we're talking about. It's IBM and technology 01:13:57.699 --> 01:14:01.880 taking over politics. And seeing that taking 01:14:01.880 --> 01:14:04.260 over a body and seeing the interests and the 01:14:04.260 --> 01:14:06.579 desires and the perversions that come from that. 01:14:07.850 --> 01:14:10.789 his like weird self -aggrandizing, like God -like 01:14:10.789 --> 01:14:13.029 thing in the middle is crazy. And it's one of 01:14:13.029 --> 01:14:14.770 my favorite part. Like it really feels like acid 01:14:14.770 --> 01:14:17.510 to me too at that point where he's just like 01:14:17.510 --> 01:14:21.470 so convinced of some really abstract reality 01:14:21.470 --> 01:14:24.149 and his own greatness in a way that you can't 01:14:24.149 --> 01:14:26.430 describe to another person. Her trying to listen 01:14:26.430 --> 01:14:29.710 to him when he's like, like falling apart and 01:14:29.710 --> 01:14:31.729 trying to talk about the most abstract stuff 01:14:31.729 --> 01:14:35.609 is like amazing. And that's like, that's like, 01:14:36.510 --> 01:14:39.029 It's part of it that's done really well in the 01:14:39.029 --> 01:14:42.550 original Fly, too, where as he's deteriorating, 01:14:42.550 --> 01:14:45.789 he's writing on the wall, and the handwriting 01:14:45.789 --> 01:14:49.210 gets crazier and crazier and whatnot. But in 01:14:49.210 --> 01:14:51.689 this movie, he brings, like, Cronenberg takes 01:14:51.689 --> 01:14:53.529 all the aspects of that original movie and brings 01:14:53.529 --> 01:14:57.210 so much more, like, just depth to it. Just really 01:14:57.210 --> 01:14:58.750 just depth. Because, I mean, the original movie 01:14:58.750 --> 01:15:02.470 is very much about a nerdy guy, though the archetype 01:15:02.470 --> 01:15:06.289 doesn't exist in all of these sort of... external 01:15:06.289 --> 01:15:08.710 like the the larger connections here don't really 01:15:08.710 --> 01:15:10.770 exist but it is that type of guy who's like very 01:15:10.770 --> 01:15:13.590 obsessed with his work charisma yeah but he does 01:15:13.590 --> 01:15:15.510 he has charisma he seems like he's a handsome 01:15:15.510 --> 01:15:18.869 charismatic dude it's true it's true he's not 01:15:18.869 --> 01:15:20.989 he's not as crazy like this is like the thing 01:15:20.989 --> 01:15:23.109 that really stood out to me as being super different 01:15:23.109 --> 01:15:25.729 about both of them but just like what what is 01:15:25.729 --> 01:15:27.789 the character's name in the original it's like 01:15:27.789 --> 01:15:33.550 arnold or uh andre andre like so like in the 01:15:33.550 --> 01:15:37.989 original andre Basically, in the original Fly, 01:15:38.310 --> 01:15:42.149 the film doesn't really show Andre as some kind 01:15:42.149 --> 01:15:46.529 of flawed character who has a deficiency. He's 01:15:46.529 --> 01:15:49.630 being perverted by his work, though. Yeah, but 01:15:49.630 --> 01:15:53.609 ultimately, when the experiment goes wrong, he 01:15:53.609 --> 01:15:55.510 admits that it was a failure and it has to be 01:15:55.510 --> 01:15:58.569 destroyed along with him with it. Whereas in 01:15:58.569 --> 01:16:03.170 Cronenberg's, Seth bends over backwards to justify... 01:16:04.080 --> 01:16:07.199 the catastrophe over and over right right at 01:16:07.199 --> 01:16:09.420 first it's like wow this is fucked up something 01:16:09.420 --> 01:16:12.300 went wrong but as he starts to morph more he's 01:16:12.300 --> 01:16:14.100 like actually you know what i think i'm actually 01:16:14.100 --> 01:16:15.619 more powerful than something went incredibly 01:16:15.619 --> 01:16:18.060 right yeah yeah this is actually right i created 01:16:18.060 --> 01:16:21.529 a gene splicer like He's constantly justifying 01:16:21.529 --> 01:16:24.229 and rationalizing. But isn't that basically Revenge 01:16:24.229 --> 01:16:26.010 of the Nerds, right? Where it's like, I have 01:16:26.010 --> 01:16:27.470 this deficiency, and then it's like, no, no, 01:16:27.489 --> 01:16:29.689 my deficiency makes me great. I'm part of this 01:16:29.689 --> 01:16:32.470 thing, and I'm better than all of the jocks because 01:16:32.470 --> 01:16:34.250 of my deficiency, and it's a superpower that 01:16:34.250 --> 01:16:37.130 I'm deficient. Yeah, I don't think the original 01:16:37.130 --> 01:16:39.529 Fly is actually very critical of technology and 01:16:39.529 --> 01:16:42.369 progress. In fact, in the end, the speech that 01:16:42.369 --> 01:16:45.770 Vincent Price gives... is essentially like, you 01:16:45.770 --> 01:16:47.210 know, to make an omelet, you got to break some 01:16:47.210 --> 01:16:49.850 eggs. The problem isn't progress itself. It's 01:16:49.850 --> 01:16:53.630 the sacrifice needed to fuel it. Right. I think 01:16:53.630 --> 01:16:56.909 he's basically, he's a nuclear scientist in this 01:16:56.909 --> 01:16:58.569 movie, right? And we're talking about like, well, 01:16:58.630 --> 01:17:00.489 we need the nuclear program. This is important. 01:17:01.109 --> 01:17:04.989 However, it's a dangerous job and these people 01:17:04.989 --> 01:17:07.609 might get radiation or they might, you know what 01:17:07.609 --> 01:17:10.750 I mean? Sure, but it's a necessary evil, so to 01:17:10.750 --> 01:17:14.989 speak. And so the 1958 version of The Fly really 01:17:14.989 --> 01:17:18.689 shows a culture that has a near ubiquitous trust 01:17:18.689 --> 01:17:22.149 in progress. Despite anything bad that comes 01:17:22.149 --> 01:17:25.550 out of it, it's ultimately good. Whereas Cronenberg's 01:17:25.550 --> 01:17:29.140 86 version, I feel like is very... wary and critical 01:17:29.140 --> 01:17:32.220 of progress and technology I mean it brings in 01:17:32.220 --> 01:17:34.840 the Cronenberg thing that's in all of his every 01:17:34.840 --> 01:17:37.560 single one of his movies about technology perverting 01:17:37.560 --> 01:17:40.399 the human spirit and our desires and our relationships 01:17:40.399 --> 01:17:43.079 to each other and isolating us and creating making 01:17:43.079 --> 01:17:48.000 us into technology but I think I think yeah for 01:17:48.000 --> 01:17:50.800 sure the original I think does have that too 01:17:50.800 --> 01:17:53.520 though where by becoming the fly I mean it does 01:17:53.520 --> 01:17:55.560 still have the it is the bug in the system thing 01:17:56.239 --> 01:18:00.399 A lot of the actual structure of the movie is 01:18:00.399 --> 01:18:05.079 very much still there. But we don't see Andre 01:18:05.079 --> 01:18:07.560 as this disgusting monster who should have been 01:18:07.560 --> 01:18:12.359 smashed before he created this thing. In the 01:18:12.359 --> 01:18:16.439 end, this thing was too powerful for the world. 01:18:16.619 --> 01:18:19.600 So we don't want this thing. It is anti -technology 01:18:19.600 --> 01:18:22.220 in the end in some ways. It is the nuclear program 01:18:22.220 --> 01:18:25.670 thing where it is critical of that. But I just 01:18:25.670 --> 01:18:27.710 think that gets undone by what Vincent Price 01:18:27.710 --> 01:18:30.409 says in the very end to his son, like justifying 01:18:30.409 --> 01:18:33.569 the sacrifice your father made for this kind 01:18:33.569 --> 01:18:36.789 of progress or discovery. But Vincent Price also 01:18:36.789 --> 01:18:40.199 like doesn't. I guess he knows the whole story 01:18:40.199 --> 01:18:42.319 at that point. It's a weird ending because I 01:18:42.319 --> 01:18:44.779 really think in some ways it undoes it. The big 01:18:44.779 --> 01:18:47.779 thing is in movies of this era, you're talking 01:18:47.779 --> 01:18:50.699 about the code and stuff, the Hays Code. All 01:18:50.699 --> 01:18:53.960 of these movies have to have big summaries that 01:18:53.960 --> 01:18:58.640 undo all of the nuances of the movie. You're 01:18:58.640 --> 01:19:00.659 going to have a movie that's talking about how 01:19:00.659 --> 01:19:06.210 sick it is to be a gangster. you know, kill people 01:19:06.210 --> 01:19:07.949 and fuck women and blah, blah, blah. And then 01:19:07.949 --> 01:19:09.430 in the end, it's going to be like, and it never 01:19:09.430 --> 01:19:12.189 pays to be a gangster. It's like, well, yes, 01:19:12.329 --> 01:19:14.289 it does undo it. But like the whole point of 01:19:14.289 --> 01:19:16.970 the movie is talking about like how awesome it 01:19:16.970 --> 01:19:19.729 is to be a criminal. And in this movie, I feel 01:19:19.729 --> 01:19:21.670 like a lot of the point of the movie is criticizing 01:19:21.670 --> 01:19:25.010 the nuclear program and what it's doing to this 01:19:25.010 --> 01:19:27.189 person. And like, I do think that like, really, 01:19:27.210 --> 01:19:29.609 like I kind of felt like this original flyer, 01:19:29.609 --> 01:19:32.590 like was really disturbing and stomach churning 01:19:32.590 --> 01:19:36.520 to me. in a way, even that the remake kind of 01:19:36.520 --> 01:19:38.979 almost wasn't. You know what I mean? It's almost 01:19:38.979 --> 01:19:41.020 the way that I feel about Kubrick's Lolita versus, 01:19:41.119 --> 01:19:45.060 what's his name, the guy who did all the pervy 01:19:45.060 --> 01:19:48.369 movies? I don't know, the remake of Lolita? Something 01:19:48.369 --> 01:19:52.029 that perverse being in a movie this not perverse, 01:19:52.130 --> 01:19:56.649 like this sort of stagey and contained, makes 01:19:56.649 --> 01:19:58.489 it feel really disturbing. It stands out in a 01:19:58.489 --> 01:20:00.649 weird way. I think that that guy standing, just 01:20:00.649 --> 01:20:03.649 Andre standing with the sheet over his head and 01:20:03.649 --> 01:20:07.850 not talking to his wife is so scary. It's really, 01:20:08.090 --> 01:20:10.350 it's like stomach churningly scary because you 01:20:10.350 --> 01:20:12.869 know something happened to his face that he can't 01:20:12.869 --> 01:20:17.000 speak. that he's not showing or like, it's, it's, 01:20:17.000 --> 01:20:20.220 it's really, it's really scary. I think actually 01:20:20.220 --> 01:20:23.199 like, yeah. And when he's like the little fly, 01:20:23.279 --> 01:20:25.460 like stuck in the web at the end, yelling, help 01:20:25.460 --> 01:20:28.000 me is like, it's terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. And 01:20:28.000 --> 01:20:30.000 then, and I also like that they just killed it. 01:20:30.420 --> 01:20:34.899 It's yeah. Yeah. That was actually him. And it's 01:20:34.899 --> 01:20:37.039 like, Oh, this is so horrifying that like, it 01:20:37.039 --> 01:20:39.500 should not exist, kill it. And then, Oh man, 01:20:39.560 --> 01:20:43.680 it's so sad that he had to like, it's very, It's 01:20:43.680 --> 01:20:46.159 very, it's depressing. It's a depressing movie. 01:20:46.319 --> 01:20:48.560 And I think it's really about the nuclear program 01:20:48.560 --> 01:20:50.640 and the damage that it's doing to like scientists 01:20:50.640 --> 01:20:54.899 and people through it's the transmission of the 01:20:54.899 --> 01:20:58.340 work itself to the human and making them like 01:20:58.340 --> 01:21:01.560 bug people. Yeah, I think that's a part of it. 01:21:01.579 --> 01:21:03.399 But personally, my read on the original Fly, 01:21:03.699 --> 01:21:06.420 like I kind of felt the cornerstone of the movie 01:21:06.420 --> 01:21:08.520 and its themes and what it was really talking 01:21:08.520 --> 01:21:12.260 about was like, I kind of feel like it was a 01:21:12.260 --> 01:21:15.600 domestic drama. The way it's told, too, where, 01:21:15.659 --> 01:21:17.619 like, the murder happens at the beginning and 01:21:17.619 --> 01:21:20.159 it's all unraveling as a sort of mystery. In 01:21:20.159 --> 01:21:22.140 the beginning, what you're sort of presented 01:21:22.140 --> 01:21:25.840 with is, like, this wife just murdered her husband. 01:21:26.460 --> 01:21:29.039 So she's, like, insane, right? Like, I feel like 01:21:29.039 --> 01:21:30.979 it, like, plays with this trope of, like, the 01:21:30.979 --> 01:21:35.470 insane wife. And she murders her husband, but 01:21:35.470 --> 01:21:38.229 then when you hear the story, what you learn 01:21:38.229 --> 01:21:41.850 is that her husband had become a monster because 01:21:41.850 --> 01:21:45.890 of how obsessed he became with his work and how 01:21:45.890 --> 01:21:48.970 neglectful that made him toward his family. If 01:21:48.970 --> 01:21:51.810 you just take out the whole sci -fi fly narrative, 01:21:52.069 --> 01:21:54.069 you essentially just have this narrative about 01:21:54.069 --> 01:21:58.310 an abusive, work -obsessed husband who drove 01:21:58.310 --> 01:22:32.470 his wife. Right. Right. Right. And I think that's, 01:22:32.470 --> 01:22:34.289 like, what I find really interesting about the 01:22:34.289 --> 01:22:39.250 first movie is to take this sort of trope of, 01:22:39.369 --> 01:22:42.729 like, the hysterical, crazy, like, female who 01:22:42.729 --> 01:22:45.170 kills her husband and then, like, creating a 01:22:45.170 --> 01:22:47.770 justification for that because it was actually 01:22:47.770 --> 01:22:50.909 the man's fault. He was the real monster. It 01:22:50.909 --> 01:22:53.489 was his choice. And she was his fucking... It 01:22:53.489 --> 01:22:56.720 was his choice, yeah. Yeah, she stood by him. 01:22:56.779 --> 01:23:00.520 She did every, like, she was his bottom bitch. 01:23:00.899 --> 01:23:03.979 You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was, 01:23:04.060 --> 01:23:06.880 like, the actual, she did every single thing 01:23:06.880 --> 01:23:08.539 without question. She didn't ask him to take 01:23:08.539 --> 01:23:10.420 off his hat. She didn't, like, it's like, do 01:23:10.420 --> 01:23:12.720 not ask me this. Knock these many times. Do this. 01:23:12.800 --> 01:23:14.560 Like, I cannot show you this. And she didn't, 01:23:14.560 --> 01:23:17.720 like, she was totally submissive and the perfect 01:23:17.720 --> 01:23:21.819 wife by 50s standards. And loyal. Yeah, yeah, 01:23:21.840 --> 01:23:25.369 yeah. It's a very different character than Ronnie 01:23:25.369 --> 01:23:28.050 in Cronenberg's remake. Of course. Veronica. 01:23:28.590 --> 01:23:31.130 Much more of a girl boss archetype. The strong, 01:23:31.310 --> 01:23:34.630 independent girl boss woman. And that's what 01:23:34.630 --> 01:23:38.229 I mean. I think the gender relations or the male 01:23:38.229 --> 01:23:43.390 -female relationship dynamics in each movie also 01:23:43.390 --> 01:23:45.850 really speak to the times that they were made. 01:23:45.890 --> 01:23:49.310 Absolutely. Because, I mean, again, like we were 01:23:49.310 --> 01:23:50.729 talking about in Revenge of the Nerds, like, 01:23:50.789 --> 01:23:55.250 who is it who decides what a successful masculine 01:23:55.250 --> 01:23:58.630 archetype is, is the women. This is part of the 01:23:58.630 --> 01:24:02.289 thing, that these are defined. I mean, Brumdell 01:24:02.289 --> 01:24:07.010 Fly's validation comes from Veronica. And he 01:24:07.010 --> 01:24:09.170 needs her. Like, he wouldn't be doing any of 01:24:09.170 --> 01:24:12.329 this if it wasn't for her. Like, he needs an 01:24:12.329 --> 01:24:15.550 observer to tell this story and everything. No, 01:24:15.550 --> 01:24:20.289 totally. And I think having an abortion as part 01:24:20.289 --> 01:24:25.050 of the plot is so intense. Because just like 01:24:25.050 --> 01:24:27.869 in the first Fly, if you take out the Fly sci 01:24:27.869 --> 01:24:31.729 -fi elements of the movie, then in Cronenberg's, 01:24:31.729 --> 01:24:35.109 you are also dealing with this kind of story 01:24:35.109 --> 01:24:38.369 where a woman leaves a man because she finds 01:24:38.369 --> 01:24:41.250 him to be pig -headed or arrogant or somewhat 01:24:41.250 --> 01:24:45.060 insufferable. He's a jock. He's a jock. Yeah. 01:24:45.260 --> 01:24:48.000 And then she gets with this nerd, this nice guy 01:24:48.000 --> 01:24:50.739 who's like, seems like he's a genius. And it's 01:24:50.739 --> 01:24:53.100 like, there's so much to sort of like appreciate 01:24:53.100 --> 01:24:58.060 about him. But then like, he's actually a monster. 01:24:58.260 --> 01:25:02.060 He's a true fascist. He believes in insect politics. 01:25:02.100 --> 01:25:04.739 Then realizes she's pregnant with his child and 01:25:04.739 --> 01:25:08.899 wants to abort it. Like, it's so fucking like 01:25:08.899 --> 01:25:12.079 intense, dude. And he creates an iconography 01:25:12.079 --> 01:25:15.920 out of my body. The scene where she gives birth 01:25:15.920 --> 01:25:21.039 to the maggot or whatever is such an incredible 01:25:21.039 --> 01:25:25.619 depiction of the anxiety of being impregnated 01:25:25.619 --> 01:25:27.800 by a guy who turns out to not be the guy you 01:25:27.800 --> 01:25:31.000 thought he was. It's just like that's a feminine 01:25:31.000 --> 01:25:34.720 experience that is the iconography of that is 01:25:34.720 --> 01:25:38.100 being created on screen there. I love Veronica. 01:25:38.260 --> 01:25:40.520 She's like one of the great female characters. 01:25:40.899 --> 01:25:43.840 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. She's very strong. And it's 01:25:43.840 --> 01:25:48.119 a very pro -abortion sort of a movie. Pro -choice, 01:25:48.159 --> 01:25:52.970 yeah. Pro -choice. Yes, yes. But it's also shown 01:25:52.970 --> 01:25:56.390 in this like really horrible, horrifying, triggering 01:25:56.390 --> 01:25:59.869 way, you know? Yeah, because it is like, it is 01:25:59.869 --> 01:26:02.590 traumatic. It's not necessarily like... It's 01:26:02.590 --> 01:26:04.890 not the solution that's beautiful and everybody's 01:26:04.890 --> 01:26:07.510 happy. It's like this... No, exactly. It's horrible. 01:26:07.750 --> 01:26:09.890 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's even still conflicted 01:26:09.890 --> 01:26:11.869 about it, even though she knows what he's become. 01:26:12.029 --> 01:26:14.350 Like, you know, it's... Yeah, exactly. And then 01:26:14.350 --> 01:26:16.710 once she actually sees him, she's like, no, I'm 01:26:16.710 --> 01:26:18.810 not conflicted anymore. I need it tonight. But 01:26:18.810 --> 01:26:21.420 she can't tell him. She can't like bring herself 01:26:21.420 --> 01:26:24.159 to tell him either. Yeah. Yeah. Which is another 01:26:24.159 --> 01:26:26.420 big anxiety. Like that's another depiction of 01:26:26.420 --> 01:26:29.579 just like the anxiety a woman goes through when 01:26:29.579 --> 01:26:31.199 it's like, it's her body, her choice, and she 01:26:31.199 --> 01:26:32.979 can just hide it from him and make the choice. 01:26:33.100 --> 01:26:35.739 Right. Right. But like having to go through that 01:26:35.739 --> 01:26:38.020 moment of like, am I going to tell him, can I 01:26:38.020 --> 01:26:41.239 deal with his input on this? Right. And it's 01:26:41.239 --> 01:26:43.000 just like, you know what? No, I don't want to 01:26:43.000 --> 01:26:46.600 deal with bundle flies. Cause he's a fucking 01:26:46.600 --> 01:26:49.239 monster. And, like, yeah, it turns out, like, 01:26:49.279 --> 01:26:50.939 of course he's going to want to keep the baby. 01:26:51.399 --> 01:26:54.180 Then, like, you see the whole, like, this great 01:26:54.180 --> 01:26:58.199 depiction of the anxiety and fear of a man whose, 01:26:58.239 --> 01:27:02.199 like, child is going to be aborted against his 01:27:02.199 --> 01:27:05.319 will, who could be, like, the only thing that's 01:27:05.319 --> 01:27:07.720 left of him. Right. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:27:07.840 --> 01:27:09.560 Like, I've become a monster, but there's still 01:27:09.560 --> 01:27:13.020 hope for my kid or whatever, which gets a little 01:27:13.020 --> 01:27:14.640 bit muddy when he says we're just all going to 01:27:14.640 --> 01:27:17.899 merge together or whatever. That's his like insane 01:27:17.899 --> 01:27:21.079 solution to this terrible problem or whatever. 01:27:21.319 --> 01:27:23.880 Yeah, but that's also the most, you know, like 01:27:23.880 --> 01:27:26.560 we're going to move to a ranch and you're not 01:27:26.560 --> 01:27:28.159 going to talk to anybody else and you're going 01:27:28.159 --> 01:27:30.920 to do what I say and whatever. Like it's being 01:27:30.920 --> 01:27:33.939 a cult leader type of masculinity. It's like 01:27:33.939 --> 01:27:35.220 I'm going to have six wives. You're going to 01:27:35.220 --> 01:27:36.399 be one of them. You're not going to talk to anybody. 01:27:36.640 --> 01:27:38.039 It's going to be like whatever because I need 01:27:38.039 --> 01:27:40.140 more in my brood. You're right. That merging 01:27:40.140 --> 01:27:42.699 works as a metaphor for her never having agency 01:27:42.699 --> 01:27:46.699 again. No agency whatsoever. Exactly. just a 01:27:46.699 --> 01:27:48.979 trad wife existence or whatever. Yeah, but when 01:27:48.979 --> 01:27:52.640 her first boyfriend, Stathis, is trying to keep 01:27:52.640 --> 01:27:56.920 her keys, like, that is a, you know, taking ownership 01:27:56.920 --> 01:27:59.680 over her life thing. It's crossing a barrier 01:27:59.680 --> 01:28:03.399 and trying to control her or whatever. But that 01:28:03.399 --> 01:28:06.479 is in a, like, masculine -feminine aggression, 01:28:06.659 --> 01:28:08.939 whatever, relationship in which, like, Veronica 01:28:08.939 --> 01:28:12.619 does have agency and, like, totally could... 01:28:13.079 --> 01:28:14.619 play it differently like you know what i mean 01:28:14.619 --> 01:28:17.039 she's like he's taking a shower in there it's 01:28:17.039 --> 01:28:19.399 not like she goes and calls the police or like 01:28:19.399 --> 01:28:21.920 is actually like get out get out get out it's 01:28:21.920 --> 01:28:24.819 just kind of like no she's like oh you're here 01:28:24.819 --> 01:28:28.239 again yeah well this is not cool it's not okay 01:28:28.239 --> 01:28:31.220 i would agree with all this yeah yeah yeah very 01:28:31.220 --> 01:28:33.239 very different there she's dealing with than 01:28:33.239 --> 01:28:34.819 what she's dealing with brundle fly who actually 01:28:34.819 --> 01:28:39.119 literally is he might kill her He might not let 01:28:39.119 --> 01:28:43.659 her go home ever again. He does not respect her 01:28:43.659 --> 01:28:46.460 or her autonomy in any way because it is all 01:28:46.460 --> 01:28:50.800 about Brundlefly and what he is becoming. But 01:28:50.800 --> 01:28:54.039 I think before she has any relationship with 01:28:54.039 --> 01:28:57.439 Seth and she doesn't realize quite how bad and 01:28:57.439 --> 01:28:59.300 monstrous and controlling a person could be, 01:28:59.460 --> 01:29:04.310 I'm sure Stathis comes off as feeling like, annoying 01:29:04.310 --> 01:29:06.710 and controlling and like just not something she 01:29:06.710 --> 01:29:09.390 wants because she is like she is a strong career 01:29:09.390 --> 01:29:12.250 woman and also like he's her boss so there is 01:29:12.250 --> 01:29:14.270 like a weird power dynamic thing there where 01:29:14.270 --> 01:29:16.810 like she ended up sleeping with her boss and 01:29:16.810 --> 01:29:19.689 that gives him some kind of questionable you 01:29:19.689 --> 01:29:22.949 know problematic power over her right and yeah 01:29:22.949 --> 01:29:25.210 like and like the keys thing and whatever like 01:29:25.210 --> 01:29:28.359 and i think as far as she's concerned based on 01:29:28.359 --> 01:29:30.359 the experiences she's had in her life thus far, 01:29:30.539 --> 01:29:33.479 this is not necessarily a totally healthy relationship. 01:29:33.539 --> 01:29:36.119 But also, let's look at their work dynamic, though. 01:29:36.220 --> 01:29:38.819 Let's look at their work dynamic. He is her boss, 01:29:38.939 --> 01:29:41.779 and that gives her all the power. That's the 01:29:41.779 --> 01:29:44.880 thing. When we actually see what happens is she 01:29:44.880 --> 01:29:50.520 goes to the dinner and meets Seth, and then she 01:29:50.520 --> 01:29:52.899 doesn't have to write the article because she 01:29:52.899 --> 01:29:54.159 can just tell her boss, no, I'm not writing the 01:29:54.159 --> 01:29:56.020 article, and what is he going to do? Say, like, 01:29:56.060 --> 01:29:57.920 I'm going to lay down the law. No, you have to 01:29:57.920 --> 01:29:59.760 write this article. No, he's like, well, I care 01:29:59.760 --> 01:30:01.520 about you. I care about you. OK, this is important 01:30:01.520 --> 01:30:03.960 for you and whatever. Like, you know, she is. 01:30:03.979 --> 01:30:07.420 I mean, he does. He does try. You know, he does 01:30:07.420 --> 01:30:09.859 try to leverage that. He does say, like, I sent 01:30:09.859 --> 01:30:11.920 you there. It's my story. But like, he does. 01:30:12.000 --> 01:30:14.319 He tells her the way that things actually are. 01:30:14.500 --> 01:30:17.960 And then he's like, fine. Like, just like do 01:30:17.960 --> 01:30:22.199 whatever you want. And he's obviously not concerned 01:30:22.199 --> 01:30:23.779 about the story. He doesn't really care about 01:30:23.779 --> 01:30:25.600 any of that. He just cares about her. He eventually 01:30:25.600 --> 01:30:27.539 cares about the story somewhat. Well, yeah, but 01:30:27.539 --> 01:30:29.159 no, not nearly as much as he cares about her. 01:30:29.239 --> 01:30:32.720 Exactly. That's absolutely true. And she cares 01:30:32.720 --> 01:30:34.039 about the story more than she cares about him, 01:30:34.100 --> 01:30:37.329 I think. And I don't think Veronica cares. Like 01:30:37.329 --> 01:30:39.529 once he starts turning into the fly and like, 01:30:39.529 --> 01:30:41.670 it becomes too much. Like when she sees him, 01:30:41.710 --> 01:30:43.670 when his ear falls off and he's puking on the 01:30:43.670 --> 01:30:46.010 food or whatever, she's like, this is, this has 01:30:46.010 --> 01:30:47.949 gone too far. Like, this is too much. Like the 01:30:47.949 --> 01:30:50.289 story is not worth this anymore. I don't know. 01:30:50.329 --> 01:30:53.170 I think, I think the story is still, she, she 01:30:53.170 --> 01:30:55.029 wants, she wants to witness it because she wants 01:30:55.029 --> 01:30:58.489 to come out with a story about this guy who deteriorated 01:30:58.489 --> 01:31:00.939 and whatever. I think she's still in for the 01:31:00.939 --> 01:31:04.439 story. She does have a deny of the call and a 01:31:04.439 --> 01:31:07.020 return. And the return happens not on her volition, 01:31:07.020 --> 01:31:12.100 but because Seth begs her to come back. She does 01:31:12.100 --> 01:31:15.539 give up on it. She is kind of like, fuck this. 01:31:15.899 --> 01:31:19.600 But she can't totally forget about it. He still 01:31:19.600 --> 01:31:22.750 is like that old... fling she had that she still 01:31:22.750 --> 01:31:25.390 thinks about and like it still has all this kind 01:31:25.390 --> 01:31:27.909 of energy and intrigue connected to it where 01:31:27.909 --> 01:31:30.430 like she can't not answer his call the moment 01:31:30.430 --> 01:31:33.390 he calls she's just like seth he doesn't like 01:31:33.390 --> 01:31:36.069 say his name or whatever she just like knows 01:31:36.069 --> 01:31:38.210 it's him right she's been waiting for the call 01:31:38.210 --> 01:31:40.409 and whatever so like there's a part of her there 01:31:40.409 --> 01:31:43.430 that like still wants that but i don't know it 01:31:43.430 --> 01:31:45.890 does get to a point where like she's like i'm 01:31:45.890 --> 01:31:47.869 in danger and this might not be worth it you 01:31:47.869 --> 01:31:50.369 know like i'm gonna back off and right not gonna 01:31:50.369 --> 01:31:53.770 like willingly be a part of this anymore right 01:31:53.770 --> 01:31:56.789 right and you know that just kind of continues 01:31:56.789 --> 01:31:58.909 the longer it goes on because like once she finds 01:31:58.909 --> 01:32:00.449 out about the baby too she's like i don't want 01:32:00.449 --> 01:32:02.090 this in my body i don't want anything to do with 01:32:02.090 --> 01:32:04.489 this shit right i want this to be over you know 01:32:04.489 --> 01:32:07.050 like it's i don't even want to tell him i had 01:32:07.050 --> 01:32:09.189 the baby like i just like want to be out of this 01:32:09.189 --> 01:32:12.050 fucking relationship you know right right But 01:32:12.050 --> 01:32:15.510 he just chases her. At that point, he's the one 01:32:15.510 --> 01:32:18.369 who's just pursuing her. Because she has something 01:32:18.369 --> 01:32:20.329 he wants. Because, yeah, she has something he 01:32:20.329 --> 01:32:23.729 wants. Or that he thinks he owns, which is her 01:32:23.729 --> 01:32:28.550 and her body and her child. And he thinks he 01:32:28.550 --> 01:32:31.130 owns it more than he ever did before because 01:32:31.130 --> 01:32:33.689 he is so horribly deficient and monstrous and 01:32:33.689 --> 01:32:36.750 has this whole cognitive dissonance about... 01:32:37.250 --> 01:32:40.170 all of that you know just like who he even is 01:32:40.170 --> 01:32:43.149 and he knows his mind is slipping just like andre 01:32:43.149 --> 01:32:46.029 in the original right you know right this new 01:32:46.029 --> 01:32:49.069 personality is taking over and eventually like 01:32:49.069 --> 01:32:50.970 i will hurt you that was the whole insect politics 01:32:50.970 --> 01:32:53.289 thing yeah yeah like a very long -winded way 01:32:53.289 --> 01:32:56.750 of just saying like pretty soon i won't be a 01:32:56.750 --> 01:32:59.409 human anymore right and like you will be in danger 01:32:59.409 --> 01:33:01.470 and again like this is almost like if you're 01:33:01.470 --> 01:33:03.310 if you if you want to just think of these characters 01:33:03.310 --> 01:33:06.189 just as archetypes or whatever we're just talking 01:33:06.189 --> 01:33:09.390 about like the archetype of masculinity during 01:33:09.390 --> 01:33:11.630 the time of Revenge of the Nerds, basically. 01:33:11.710 --> 01:33:14.050 We're talking about like, we're turning away 01:33:14.050 --> 01:33:16.850 from this idea of masculinity that was the jock 01:33:16.850 --> 01:33:19.090 and the, you know, and we're turning towards 01:33:19.090 --> 01:33:23.289 this new one. And after some time, we're going 01:33:23.289 --> 01:33:25.689 to realize that this thing is actually the most 01:33:25.689 --> 01:33:27.729 monstrous possible thing. And we're just still 01:33:27.729 --> 01:33:29.609 in the process of realizing, I guess, you know, 01:33:29.630 --> 01:33:34.770 40 years later, but that really, as soon as we're, 01:33:35.159 --> 01:33:37.539 As soon as we're embracing Revenge of the Nerds, 01:33:37.539 --> 01:33:40.579 as soon as that happens, that's the infiltration 01:33:40.579 --> 01:33:43.140 of the fly into the system. That's when he starts 01:33:43.140 --> 01:33:45.239 becoming Brundlefly. And then the nerd just gets 01:33:45.239 --> 01:33:46.800 worse and worse until it creates the internet 01:33:46.800 --> 01:33:49.779 and it takes over. And then you've got these 01:33:49.779 --> 01:33:53.859 weird nerds in control of the world with their 01:33:53.859 --> 01:33:57.399 harems and whatever. Yeah, that's all there. 01:33:57.880 --> 01:34:00.779 I also think another thing that's there that's 01:34:00.779 --> 01:34:02.460 really pressing and interesting too is just how 01:34:02.460 --> 01:34:05.510 Seth made the machine. He didn't build any of 01:34:05.510 --> 01:34:07.250 the components. Yeah, this is one of my favorite 01:34:07.250 --> 01:34:09.550 parts that I didn't realize until this most recent 01:34:09.550 --> 01:34:11.930 viewing. Yeah, he's an AI model, essentially. 01:34:12.390 --> 01:34:15.430 He's an AI model, but he's also a... He sees 01:34:15.430 --> 01:34:17.130 the music. He's like an Oppenheimer. Exactly. 01:34:17.350 --> 01:34:19.270 He's not doing any of the specific things, but 01:34:19.270 --> 01:34:20.510 he's an Oppenheimer bringing it all together. 01:34:20.590 --> 01:34:22.850 And he equates him with Oppenheimer and equates 01:34:22.850 --> 01:34:25.449 him with Einstein. Yeah, the clothing thing. 01:34:25.590 --> 01:34:27.930 He wears the same thing every day. Yeah, which 01:34:27.930 --> 01:34:29.689 he got from Einstein. We all know he got it from 01:34:29.689 --> 01:34:33.140 Einstein. It's part of the culture, but... He 01:34:33.140 --> 01:34:36.060 says, I got it from Einstein, so that it underlines 01:34:36.060 --> 01:34:39.640 the connection to Einstein. The connections to 01:34:39.640 --> 01:34:42.380 Einstein and Oppenheimer and his Judaism itself 01:34:42.380 --> 01:34:45.859 and whatever are all very interesting, I think. 01:34:46.380 --> 01:34:48.520 But in a way, I also think it lends to this idea 01:34:48.520 --> 01:34:50.680 that he doesn't have an original thought, like 01:34:50.680 --> 01:34:53.899 this AI idea that he's just taking everything 01:34:53.899 --> 01:34:56.600 that he is from elsewhere. Well, that's true, 01:34:56.659 --> 01:34:59.930 too. That's true, too. He's simply combining 01:34:59.930 --> 01:35:00.909 other people's work. He's not actually really 01:35:00.909 --> 01:35:03.069 much of a human being. He's not really much of 01:35:03.069 --> 01:35:05.529 a person. Right. Well, that's really the thing. 01:35:05.550 --> 01:35:08.170 It's like the original fly is this person seeing 01:35:08.170 --> 01:35:10.270 what they, you know, have dedicated their lives 01:35:10.270 --> 01:35:13.189 to then take over them and, you know, become 01:35:13.189 --> 01:35:15.430 their destruction. And that's absolutely what 01:35:15.430 --> 01:35:17.250 this is doing too, just with so much more nuance. 01:35:17.489 --> 01:35:22.430 It is his work, his interests, his ideas. The 01:35:22.430 --> 01:35:24.630 nerds that's a sweet guy, you know what I mean? 01:35:24.649 --> 01:35:26.449 Who will take you out on a date and give you 01:35:26.449 --> 01:35:29.210 a flower and whatever and then go home on his 01:35:29.210 --> 01:35:33.329 computer and do his job. What his job is, is 01:35:33.329 --> 01:35:36.729 something that is so indefensively evil. Yeah, 01:35:36.770 --> 01:35:39.630 I mean, like, there's nuance to science, you 01:35:39.630 --> 01:35:42.050 know? Like, I was just having this argument the 01:35:42.050 --> 01:35:44.149 other night with my partner and stuff. But, like, 01:35:44.189 --> 01:35:46.109 I was saying, like, I hate scientists and stuff. 01:35:46.170 --> 01:35:47.449 And, like, you know, maybe that's kind of just, 01:35:47.489 --> 01:35:51.250 like, a really broad, stupid thing to say. But 01:35:51.250 --> 01:35:52.770 it was like this whole conversation that kind 01:35:52.770 --> 01:35:54.869 of boiled down to this idea that's like, yeah, 01:35:54.989 --> 01:35:57.449 I understand that scientists cure cancer. I understand 01:35:57.449 --> 01:35:59.550 that there's like so many things that science 01:35:59.550 --> 01:36:02.010 and progress and technology that they've brought 01:36:02.010 --> 01:36:04.250 about that have been like incredibly beneficial 01:36:04.250 --> 01:36:07.350 to people. But then it always reminds me of like 01:36:07.350 --> 01:36:10.430 the Ted Kaczynski manifesto where it's like, 01:36:10.609 --> 01:36:14.210 yeah, but like it's always this one good beneficial 01:36:14.210 --> 01:36:18.189 thing that justifies all the bad things that 01:36:18.189 --> 01:36:21.340 come with it. Of course. Or whatever. And it's 01:36:21.340 --> 01:36:23.520 like the trolley car problem where you're going 01:36:23.520 --> 01:36:25.340 to run over five people or one mother and her 01:36:25.340 --> 01:36:28.119 baby or whatever. And it's like, what's more 01:36:28.119 --> 01:36:31.140 moral or whatever? Is it moral to cure people's 01:36:31.140 --> 01:36:35.199 cancer if it also brings about, you know, COVID 01:36:35.199 --> 01:36:38.260 or whatever? Just like horrible diseases that 01:36:38.260 --> 01:36:41.340 are made in labs that will like become a pandemic 01:36:41.340 --> 01:36:45.520 or whatnot. Or is it moral to create renewable 01:36:45.520 --> 01:36:48.380 energy sources with nuclear power? if that's 01:36:48.380 --> 01:36:50.720 also going to create nuclear weapons that incinerate 01:36:50.720 --> 01:36:54.640 people. Like, I don't really know. You know what 01:36:54.640 --> 01:36:56.420 I mean? Like, it's a kind of... But also, it 01:36:56.420 --> 01:36:59.560 also requires a level of fascistic control to 01:36:59.560 --> 01:37:01.939 control things like that. You know what I mean? 01:37:01.960 --> 01:37:05.140 When technology is so dangerous on an individual 01:37:05.140 --> 01:37:08.279 level... then you need to have control over that 01:37:08.279 --> 01:37:11.020 technology, which demands a more controlling 01:37:11.020 --> 01:37:14.399 political paradigm and whatever. You know what 01:37:14.399 --> 01:37:16.100 I mean? Let's say technology gets to a point 01:37:16.100 --> 01:37:18.279 where anybody could easily make a nuclear weapon. 01:37:19.050 --> 01:37:21.609 Let's say we're there. Then technology needs 01:37:21.609 --> 01:37:23.890 to be controlled at a level where our individual 01:37:23.890 --> 01:37:27.130 lives need to be monitored. You know what I mean? 01:37:27.170 --> 01:37:30.670 The more technology gets, then the more control 01:37:30.670 --> 01:37:33.710 is necessary to keep us safe from that technology 01:37:33.710 --> 01:37:36.409 in other people's hands, which therefore means 01:37:36.409 --> 01:37:41.750 more oppression and less freedom. The benefit 01:37:41.750 --> 01:37:45.069 is canceled out in other ways, in social ways, 01:37:45.329 --> 01:37:49.529 in the ways of the lives that we live. living 01:37:49.529 --> 01:37:52.090 a life in a cubicle was just not something that 01:37:52.090 --> 01:37:54.770 people 100 years ago would be able to do without 01:37:54.770 --> 01:37:58.890 harming themselves. And I guess today we aren't 01:37:58.890 --> 01:38:01.390 either. Everybody's on, you know. weed gummies 01:38:01.390 --> 01:38:04.109 all day and you know antidepressants and whatever 01:38:04.109 --> 01:38:06.430 else just like everybody's everybody's just zonked 01:38:06.430 --> 01:38:09.090 out all the time i mean they don't even need 01:38:09.090 --> 01:38:11.229 that they got their fucking phones to give them 01:38:11.229 --> 01:38:13.489 their dopamine hits every five minutes or whatever 01:38:13.489 --> 01:38:15.810 like people actually are just like becoming zombies 01:38:15.810 --> 01:38:17.869 to live in this paradigm in a way that we've 01:38:17.869 --> 01:38:18.989 already talked about it's just like not even 01:38:18.989 --> 01:38:21.229 interesting to talk about it anymore because 01:38:21.229 --> 01:38:24.310 it's just so obvious that it's like yeah no phones 01:38:24.310 --> 01:38:25.649 are making people zombies i get it dude like 01:38:25.649 --> 01:38:30.460 it's move on yeah but it's But I think it's our 01:38:30.460 --> 01:38:33.319 own anecdotal experience and our own selfish 01:38:33.319 --> 01:38:36.220 desires and needs and the people that we personally 01:38:36.220 --> 01:38:38.579 care about that continue to justify that progress. 01:38:39.119 --> 01:38:41.319 I mean, I went through a very specific example 01:38:41.319 --> 01:38:43.979 of that, which was the birth of my son. Without 01:38:43.979 --> 01:38:47.100 science and technology and all that progress, 01:38:47.180 --> 01:38:52.939 my son would be dead. He was born with a medical, 01:38:53.239 --> 01:38:56.720 biological deficiency that would have killed 01:38:56.720 --> 01:39:00.560 him. if it hadn't been for surgery and yeah, 01:39:00.640 --> 01:39:03.840 just all these fancy ass medical systems we have 01:39:03.840 --> 01:39:06.760 now, even like 50 years ago, he would have been 01:39:06.760 --> 01:39:11.000 dead, you know? Totally. So it's like, how do 01:39:11.000 --> 01:39:14.560 I fucking square that? You know, it's just, it's 01:39:14.560 --> 01:39:17.020 hard, you know, and people who like who their 01:39:17.020 --> 01:39:19.279 loved ones were, had cancer and were saved by 01:39:19.279 --> 01:39:22.899 new technologies and drugs and whatever. It's 01:39:22.899 --> 01:39:25.479 like, It's really hard to tell a person like 01:39:25.479 --> 01:39:28.880 that, fuck scientists and fuck all progress and 01:39:28.880 --> 01:39:30.960 yada yada, you know? Well, yeah, but see our 01:39:30.960 --> 01:39:33.460 conversation about AI for more. You know what 01:39:33.460 --> 01:39:37.069 I mean? I mean, AI, artificial intelligence, 01:39:37.229 --> 01:39:41.989 Kubrick and Spielberg's AI, where, yeah, it's 01:39:41.989 --> 01:39:45.090 because these technologies actually do give us 01:39:45.090 --> 01:39:47.569 these conveniences and these benefits and these 01:39:47.569 --> 01:39:49.989 things that we then, you know, buy into them 01:39:49.989 --> 01:39:52.949 and then are seduced by the emotional narrative 01:39:52.949 --> 01:39:56.550 that comes with them and whatnot and feel indebted 01:39:56.550 --> 01:39:58.010 to. Yeah, which is what the original fly really 01:39:58.010 --> 01:40:01.350 represents, just like that, at least in the end, 01:40:01.369 --> 01:40:02.909 if we're talking about the code and the Vincent 01:40:02.909 --> 01:40:06.930 Price. or whatever. It's just like this idea 01:40:06.930 --> 01:40:08.789 that's like, yeah, I mean, bad things happen, 01:40:08.909 --> 01:40:11.210 but ultimately it's good. You know, ultimately 01:40:11.210 --> 01:40:14.010 it's good for us. Right. And it's important to 01:40:14.010 --> 01:40:16.149 get out there when you're trying to, you know, 01:40:16.149 --> 01:40:19.310 get a bunch of Nazis into outer space. Exactly. 01:40:19.689 --> 01:40:21.890 Yeah. So it's a very, it's much more propagandic 01:40:21.890 --> 01:40:24.130 movie. That's the thing is I feel like Cronenberg's 01:40:24.130 --> 01:40:26.789 fly is so much more in touch with reality. Like, 01:40:26.789 --> 01:40:30.890 and yeah, you said depth and nuance. Um, the 01:40:30.890 --> 01:40:32.949 original fly is actually a really good movie. 01:40:33.680 --> 01:40:35.640 And it's interesting for a lot of reasons, but 01:40:35.640 --> 01:40:41.500 it has a messy moral center or something. It's 01:40:41.500 --> 01:40:45.619 a lot more propagandic in a lot of ways. Yeah. 01:40:45.720 --> 01:40:49.279 I also feel like because of that, it doesn't 01:40:49.279 --> 01:40:51.399 end up having all of its themes come together 01:40:51.399 --> 01:40:54.140 in the end in a way that puts a real button on 01:40:54.140 --> 01:40:57.699 it. You know what I mean? Exactly, yeah. It's 01:40:57.699 --> 01:41:00.220 much more close to the original short story, 01:41:00.420 --> 01:41:03.989 The First Fly. Is there an original story? Yeah, 01:41:04.010 --> 01:41:06.210 I mean, both movies are based on the original 01:41:06.210 --> 01:41:10.250 short story. But yeah, the original short story 01:41:10.250 --> 01:41:13.510 of The Fly plays out pretty much like the first 01:41:13.510 --> 01:41:16.590 movie. You know, like a wife kills her husband 01:41:16.590 --> 01:41:21.130 under a printing press, and the guy's brother 01:41:21.130 --> 01:41:24.590 and the cops question her, and she tells the 01:41:24.590 --> 01:41:27.550 story, and there's still the thing with the son 01:41:27.550 --> 01:41:29.390 and the fly with the white head, and all that 01:41:29.390 --> 01:41:31.750 stuff is all part of the original short story. 01:41:32.770 --> 01:41:36.189 Interesting. Interesting. And so Cronenberg's 01:41:36.189 --> 01:41:37.930 is much more of a subversion. They eliminate 01:41:37.930 --> 01:41:40.329 the whole fly with the right head in the Cronenberg 01:41:40.329 --> 01:41:42.850 thing. Yeah, which I really love. I think like 01:41:42.850 --> 01:41:46.890 the whole idea that they're just like fused at 01:41:46.890 --> 01:41:50.010 like a genetic level that then like... But there 01:41:50.010 --> 01:41:53.670 are two of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that, 01:41:53.729 --> 01:41:56.029 yeah, like it gets expressed as like a kind of 01:41:56.029 --> 01:41:57.590 cancer and whatever, which is what Cronenberg 01:41:57.590 --> 01:41:59.270 was talking about. And I do think the movie works 01:41:59.270 --> 01:42:03.329 in that way as well. Like, I think that the scene 01:42:03.329 --> 01:42:08.149 where, the scene where Seth finally starts to 01:42:08.149 --> 01:42:10.189 notice that he's transforming in the mirror and 01:42:10.189 --> 01:42:11.869 he like breaks off his fingernails and stuff 01:42:11.869 --> 01:42:14.430 like that is one of the most fucking disturbing 01:42:14.430 --> 01:42:17.609 scenes ever. So iconic. And like really also 01:42:17.609 --> 01:42:21.829 is a perfect iconic representation of like something 01:42:21.829 --> 01:42:24.310 that we've all gone through. Right. You know, 01:42:24.310 --> 01:42:26.510 like when you're in the bathroom and you notice 01:42:26.510 --> 01:42:28.569 some weird thing on your skin, you're like, oh, 01:42:28.609 --> 01:42:31.270 what the fuck is that? what's going on? Like 01:42:31.270 --> 01:42:34.390 just kind of like anxiety over your body changing 01:42:34.390 --> 01:42:37.329 and like aging and having body, body dysmorphia. 01:42:37.329 --> 01:42:40.310 Yeah. Becoming gross. Your hair is falling out. 01:42:40.329 --> 01:42:42.430 And you're just like, I remember like the first 01:42:42.430 --> 01:42:44.829 time I really noticed that I was balding. It 01:42:44.829 --> 01:42:47.390 was horrifying. Like it was a really like disturbing 01:42:47.390 --> 01:42:50.289 moment that like is so connected to that scene 01:42:50.289 --> 01:42:53.670 in the fly. And yeah, like that has nothing to 01:42:53.670 --> 01:42:55.569 do with technology or anything else. It's just 01:42:55.569 --> 01:42:59.689 like, there is a, just like, There's a body horror 01:42:59.689 --> 01:43:05.649 anxiety element to just like aging and how disgusting 01:43:05.649 --> 01:43:08.609 that is and how like scared that makes you about 01:43:08.609 --> 01:43:12.989 death and just like the disintegration of yourself 01:43:12.989 --> 01:43:17.060 and whatever. Totally. Totally. I just don't 01:43:17.060 --> 01:43:19.039 think that's, I don't think that ends up being 01:43:19.039 --> 01:43:20.680 like the main point of the movie or what it's 01:43:20.680 --> 01:43:22.460 really about, even though that's what Kramer 01:43:22.460 --> 01:43:24.699 telegraphs. I think that once you start dealing 01:43:24.699 --> 01:43:28.600 with the immediacy of mortality, then what becomes 01:43:28.600 --> 01:43:33.060 more important is this idea of what it is you're 01:43:33.060 --> 01:43:36.600 actually contributing or leaving behind, the 01:43:36.600 --> 01:43:39.439 legacy concept, I think. No, that's true. The 01:43:39.439 --> 01:43:42.199 idea of the point of life, you know what I mean, 01:43:42.279 --> 01:43:46.840 then has to become sort of present. a couple 01:43:46.840 --> 01:43:50.359 of days to no, that's why, that's why he doubles 01:43:50.359 --> 01:43:53.619 down. Yeah. Like, cause he's like more, he sees 01:43:53.619 --> 01:43:56.380 his mortality. He sees that he's, he's going 01:43:56.380 --> 01:43:58.859 to die essentially. He's like, either he's going 01:43:58.859 --> 01:44:02.760 to lose his identity within the fly or whatever 01:44:02.760 --> 01:44:05.239 it is. But like, that's, they're actually, I 01:44:05.239 --> 01:44:07.640 also read a thing that like essentially, um, 01:44:07.800 --> 01:44:09.880 Seth Brundle goes through the five stages of 01:44:09.880 --> 01:44:12.300 grief, which is totally true. Like it's very 01:44:12.300 --> 01:44:15.500 like by the book. you know, like denial, bargaining, 01:44:15.619 --> 01:44:18.199 anger, like all those things. Like that's, he 01:44:18.199 --> 01:44:19.819 goes through every single one of those stages. 01:44:20.300 --> 01:44:22.920 And that is, that's also like a really, like 01:44:22.920 --> 01:44:25.220 that's such a film school -y kind of like generic 01:44:25.220 --> 01:44:27.260 thing to do, but like you don't notice it when 01:44:27.260 --> 01:44:28.819 you're watching the movie because it's done so 01:44:28.819 --> 01:44:32.119 smoothly and well. And it feels real. Like every 01:44:32.119 --> 01:44:34.439 time you see Brundlefly and he's developed and 01:44:34.439 --> 01:44:36.319 he's kind of in a whole new place and a little 01:44:36.319 --> 01:44:40.039 different, like it's... Yeah. It's really, it's 01:44:40.039 --> 01:44:42.159 all, it's, it's, it's like, it's very disturbing, 01:44:42.199 --> 01:44:44.420 but it's, it's awesome. It's like his performance 01:44:44.420 --> 01:44:47.739 in this movie is incredible, but it really makes 01:44:47.739 --> 01:44:50.479 you feel like you're not like he gets more and 01:44:50.479 --> 01:44:52.340 he gets further and further away from you. You're 01:44:52.340 --> 01:44:55.520 not even really in on what he's doing when you're 01:44:55.520 --> 01:44:58.479 not around, you know? I don't know. He's more 01:44:58.479 --> 01:45:01.720 isolated. He's weirder and he's crawling on the 01:45:01.720 --> 01:45:04.979 ceilings and stuff. When he's like crawling on 01:45:04.979 --> 01:45:06.680 the ceiling, he's like, does it seem like a, 01:45:07.310 --> 01:45:08.689 he's like i don't know it seems like a superpower 01:45:08.689 --> 01:45:10.649 or whatever like he's like it's like almost like 01:45:10.649 --> 01:45:12.909 spider -man or something you know like yeah got 01:45:12.909 --> 01:45:14.909 bit by the radioactive spider and now he has 01:45:14.909 --> 01:45:16.310 all these superpowers and it's like actually 01:45:16.310 --> 01:45:19.289 this is kind of cool right and like even earlier 01:45:19.289 --> 01:45:22.010 before he gets super grotesque like before he 01:45:22.010 --> 01:45:25.609 even um notices that his body's changing and 01:45:25.609 --> 01:45:28.869 stuff he can like punch through walls and shit 01:45:28.869 --> 01:45:30.069 and he's just like does this look like a sick 01:45:30.069 --> 01:45:34.170 man to you and whatever he's just like so Like, 01:45:34.210 --> 01:45:36.010 you know, how he can do all those like gymnastics 01:45:36.010 --> 01:45:38.989 and whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's super 01:45:38.989 --> 01:45:41.250 interesting. Just like every stage he goes through 01:45:41.250 --> 01:45:43.489 and the kind of rationalizations he's making 01:45:43.489 --> 01:45:47.229 along the way to like justify his life's work 01:45:47.229 --> 01:45:49.850 and the horrible mistake he made. Yeah, yeah, 01:45:49.890 --> 01:45:51.989 yeah. And then it just gets desperate. And justify 01:45:51.989 --> 01:45:54.329 his own desires as well. Like to tie all of those 01:45:54.329 --> 01:45:55.670 into one thing. Because that's what he does in 01:45:55.670 --> 01:45:58.569 the first scene is this whole thing is my work, 01:45:58.670 --> 01:46:00.630 but I'm also going to find a really hot lady 01:46:00.630 --> 01:46:03.239 because this is my only chance. You know what 01:46:03.239 --> 01:46:07.119 I mean? To get one of those. Yeah, yeah. But, 01:46:07.140 --> 01:46:09.939 yeah. It really makes me think about just, like, 01:46:10.020 --> 01:46:13.180 if in Revenge of the Nerds, instead, like, the 01:46:13.180 --> 01:46:15.680 nerds had just drank, you know, some sort of 01:46:15.680 --> 01:46:18.720 potion that made them good at sports, they probably 01:46:18.720 --> 01:46:20.960 just would have, like, gone onto the football 01:46:20.960 --> 01:46:22.680 team and then been the best on the football team. 01:46:23.279 --> 01:46:25.659 You know what I mean? Would have been happy. 01:46:25.739 --> 01:46:27.340 Sure, yeah, yeah. They just would have become 01:46:27.340 --> 01:46:29.840 the thing that they claim to hate or whatever. 01:46:30.630 --> 01:46:33.829 And it's the same like Bundlefly, you know, being 01:46:33.829 --> 01:46:36.229 the sweet nerd who then is like as soon as he's 01:46:36.229 --> 01:46:38.109 empowered, he's like, look, I'm this great jock 01:46:38.109 --> 01:46:40.770 and I want to, you know, go pick up chicks at 01:46:40.770 --> 01:46:43.949 bars and fuck them and make them my wife, my 01:46:43.949 --> 01:46:47.170 trad wife and, you know, keep them under my control 01:46:47.170 --> 01:46:49.590 and blah, blah, blah. Well, I think that's kind 01:46:49.590 --> 01:46:51.529 of what's happening when he like brings the hooker 01:46:51.529 --> 01:46:53.710 over. Exactly. Because like once he has, once 01:46:53.710 --> 01:46:56.069 he feels that bit of power. She's not a hooker. 01:46:56.109 --> 01:46:58.689 Don't say that about her. That beautiful angel. 01:47:00.399 --> 01:47:02.500 That beautiful trashy angel, don't call her a 01:47:02.500 --> 01:47:05.760 hooker. I forgot. Oh, no, he picks her up at 01:47:05.760 --> 01:47:07.560 the bar after breaking that guy's arm. Yeah, 01:47:07.560 --> 01:47:10.439 it's some guy's girlfriend. He just alphas the 01:47:10.439 --> 01:47:13.140 guy and then is like, I'm going to take your 01:47:13.140 --> 01:47:15.739 woman. He just does the jock thing where he's 01:47:15.739 --> 01:47:19.760 just like, I'm going to take a woman home. So 01:47:19.760 --> 01:47:23.659 that's even more on point. I mean, he's basically 01:47:23.659 --> 01:47:26.819 an ogre in that scene. He just becomes ogre. 01:47:27.380 --> 01:47:30.390 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And takes her home. That shit 01:47:30.390 --> 01:47:33.850 is crazy. Yes, but don't speak ill of that sweet 01:47:33.850 --> 01:47:35.989 angel. She was no hooker. She was a girlfriend. 01:47:36.609 --> 01:47:41.329 She was an alcoholic, townie girlfriend. I'm 01:47:41.329 --> 01:47:45.069 sorry. She just has that look about her, you 01:47:45.069 --> 01:47:50.310 know? I'm not going to say she didn't. But yeah, 01:47:50.470 --> 01:47:54.250 I mean, what a great movie. It's also like, you 01:47:54.250 --> 01:47:55.920 know... I guess it doesn't really need to be 01:47:55.920 --> 01:47:57.840 said, but I just, I love the special effects 01:47:57.840 --> 01:48:01.260 in this movie. It's so refreshing to watch a 01:48:01.260 --> 01:48:03.680 movie with like such incredible practical effects 01:48:03.680 --> 01:48:06.600 these days. Totally. Like every time I watch 01:48:06.600 --> 01:48:09.199 it, I'm like impressed by the special effects. 01:48:09.319 --> 01:48:12.880 Yeah. The ending with the fucking final fly form 01:48:12.880 --> 01:48:16.399 too is just so fucking cool. No, totally. It's 01:48:16.399 --> 01:48:19.760 so well done. And it's just like, it makes it 01:48:19.760 --> 01:48:22.310 a lot of fun, I think. Because, like, this movie 01:48:22.310 --> 01:48:26.029 is fucking a miserable movie. Like, you know 01:48:26.029 --> 01:48:29.029 what I mean? Like, on paper, this is, like, it's 01:48:29.029 --> 01:48:32.819 depressing and it's... There's nothing about 01:48:32.819 --> 01:48:35.140 it that should be fun, like, actually. Like, 01:48:35.159 --> 01:48:37.840 you know what I mean? But I have a blast watching 01:48:37.840 --> 01:48:39.600 this movie. It does not feel like a miserablest 01:48:39.600 --> 01:48:41.060 experience at all. And that's one of the things 01:48:41.060 --> 01:48:43.819 Cronenberg, I think, is great at, is just going, 01:48:43.859 --> 01:48:46.439 like, incredibly dark and then, like, making 01:48:46.439 --> 01:48:48.819 you laugh at it. But not laugh at it, actually. 01:48:48.899 --> 01:48:51.039 Like, you're not like, oh, this is so cheesy, 01:48:51.060 --> 01:48:53.359 I'm laughing at it. You're just like, this is 01:48:53.359 --> 01:48:57.170 so horrible. You're right. It's like, this is 01:48:57.170 --> 01:49:02.270 so on point. It's like watching a car chase or 01:49:02.270 --> 01:49:04.250 something. It's like just super stimulus fun, 01:49:04.510 --> 01:49:08.010 even though it's just a deterioration of a person 01:49:08.010 --> 01:49:11.569 into a weird, monstrous, toxic thing that's falling 01:49:11.569 --> 01:49:15.359 apart and trying to... merge with his wife and 01:49:15.359 --> 01:49:18.880 her child. It's so gross that it shouldn't be. 01:49:19.359 --> 01:49:22.020 It's one of those things that goes so hard that 01:49:22.020 --> 01:49:24.680 you can't help but laugh at it as a sort of defense 01:49:24.680 --> 01:49:26.699 against how horrifying it is. Especially just 01:49:26.699 --> 01:49:32.680 pulling out the nails. That's awful. And squeezing 01:49:32.680 --> 01:49:36.479 his finger and it's like popping a pimple. It's 01:49:36.479 --> 01:49:38.819 so nasty. There's so much that squirts out of 01:49:38.819 --> 01:49:43.689 his finger too. It's like a full... It's brutal. 01:49:43.869 --> 01:49:46.529 It's disgusting. I mean, I know there's plenty 01:49:46.529 --> 01:49:48.989 of people who can't watch this movie because 01:49:48.989 --> 01:49:51.350 it makes them sick. And that's brilliant because 01:49:51.350 --> 01:49:55.229 it's not cheesy. And even today it's not cheesy. 01:49:55.569 --> 01:49:57.550 You watch this movie and it's like, dude, these 01:49:57.550 --> 01:50:00.529 effects are fucking horrifying. Really disgusting. 01:50:01.689 --> 01:50:04.529 realistic and for the most part like yeah I mean 01:50:04.529 --> 01:50:06.630 even the monkey that gets that gets exploded 01:50:06.630 --> 01:50:10.409 oh it gets turned inside out yeah is really cool 01:50:10.409 --> 01:50:13.069 looking and disturbing and it's also like that 01:50:13.069 --> 01:50:15.350 seems also a bummer like it's also like he just 01:50:15.350 --> 01:50:18.130 kills a thing it's such a bummer um yeah but 01:50:18.130 --> 01:50:21.470 it's still fun because it gets so crazy however 01:50:21.470 --> 01:50:24.369 in the original when he kills the fucking family 01:50:24.369 --> 01:50:26.810 cat it's like that's actually just stomach turning 01:50:26.810 --> 01:50:28.930 to me like that that actually disturbs me a lot 01:50:28.930 --> 01:50:31.409 more in the original when you just Because he 01:50:31.409 --> 01:50:33.890 doesn't tell anybody about it. You hear the cat 01:50:33.890 --> 01:50:35.529 meow once, and then it's like, where's the cat 01:50:35.529 --> 01:50:37.930 been? And he doesn't confess about it until much 01:50:37.930 --> 01:50:39.949 later. And it's like, dude, you just killed the 01:50:39.949 --> 01:50:41.869 cat in your confidence to do your thing. And 01:50:41.869 --> 01:50:45.489 it's gone, and it's just in the ether. The first 01:50:45.489 --> 01:50:50.229 movie, that and the cloth over his head, that 01:50:50.229 --> 01:50:53.289 made me feel bad for the rest of the day in a 01:50:53.289 --> 01:50:56.130 way that The Fly really doesn't. The Fly, even 01:50:56.130 --> 01:50:58.420 though it's in the moment, it's like, oh! those 01:50:58.420 --> 01:51:01.680 are all things that after i go all i laugh and 01:51:01.680 --> 01:51:05.500 it like becomes a blast um the original really 01:51:05.500 --> 01:51:07.359 really kind of fucked with me and i guess yeah 01:51:07.359 --> 01:51:09.659 there there's something about like not showing 01:51:09.659 --> 01:51:12.159 something or making something way more like yeah 01:51:12.159 --> 01:51:14.140 yeah you have to use your imagination a little 01:51:14.140 --> 01:51:16.439 more that makes it scarier yeah but cronenberg 01:51:16.439 --> 01:51:17.819 you don't want it to be scarier it's already 01:51:17.819 --> 01:51:20.859 scary enough so he makes it fun scary like you 01:51:20.859 --> 01:51:23.699 know yeah making it scarier makes it fun and 01:51:23.699 --> 01:51:26.189 palatable Yeah, the cat thing's the worst. No, 01:51:26.210 --> 01:51:27.670 yeah, the cat thing was really, really eerie. 01:51:27.789 --> 01:51:30.170 Just killing the family pet and not telling anyone 01:51:30.170 --> 01:51:35.170 about it is so, like, serial killer thing. No, 01:51:35.289 --> 01:51:38.109 for sure. There was supposed to be a scene in 01:51:38.109 --> 01:51:42.270 Cronenberg's where he has to kill a cat -monkey 01:51:42.270 --> 01:51:46.609 hybrid or something like that. That's sick. I 01:51:46.609 --> 01:51:48.149 can't remember specifically if he puts a cat 01:51:48.149 --> 01:51:50.729 through and it gets turned inside out like the 01:51:50.729 --> 01:51:53.600 monkey or if he... Or if he's doing tests on 01:51:53.600 --> 01:51:56.819 putting two things in at one time. Right, right. 01:51:57.000 --> 01:51:58.760 But they couldn't come up with a cat -monkey 01:51:58.760 --> 01:52:02.300 hybrid that was cool enough? No. What they couldn't 01:52:02.300 --> 01:52:05.579 deal with is the fact that he has to beat it 01:52:05.579 --> 01:52:08.920 to death. And they just felt like the audience 01:52:08.920 --> 01:52:11.500 is going to completely turn against Seth at this 01:52:11.500 --> 01:52:15.220 point if we watch him kill this thing. So they 01:52:15.220 --> 01:52:17.739 just removed that from the movie. And it's easy 01:52:17.739 --> 01:52:19.979 enough to turn against Seth pretty early on for 01:52:19.979 --> 01:52:24.949 many reasons. The earlier on, the better you 01:52:24.949 --> 01:52:27.670 are at reading people. You know what I mean? 01:52:27.829 --> 01:52:29.750 If you watch The Flying, as soon as he shows 01:52:29.750 --> 01:52:31.850 up, you're like, oh, fuck this guy. Then you're 01:52:31.850 --> 01:52:35.710 probably, you know what I mean? He does kill 01:52:35.710 --> 01:52:37.970 that first monkey by turning it inside out. He 01:52:37.970 --> 01:52:40.239 doesn't beat it to death. But like for a lot 01:52:40.239 --> 01:52:41.920 of people, it's just like there's a line that 01:52:41.920 --> 01:52:44.039 gets crossed when your character is like viscerally 01:52:44.039 --> 01:52:46.720 like beating something to death that was once 01:52:46.720 --> 01:52:49.140 a cute cat or whatever. That makes sense. But 01:52:49.140 --> 01:52:51.399 there is also later when he sees the monkey's 01:52:51.399 --> 01:52:53.239 brother, he says, I'm sorry I killed your brother. 01:52:53.859 --> 01:52:56.640 That's still, it invokes the same kind of like, 01:52:56.739 --> 01:52:58.380 oh, yeah, you're kind of a fucked up person. 01:52:58.579 --> 01:53:00.979 No, it does. That's why, yeah, like you said, 01:53:01.119 --> 01:53:03.260 the earlier you realize that, like, I mean, the 01:53:03.260 --> 01:53:05.779 first time he puts a monkey through, depending 01:53:05.779 --> 01:53:07.800 on your morals and values, you'd be like, this 01:53:07.800 --> 01:53:11.300 is evil, right? Or maybe before that, when you're 01:53:11.300 --> 01:53:13.979 like, oh, wait, you're into coding? Oh, you're 01:53:13.979 --> 01:53:16.439 evil. Yeah, because that's just the kind of thing 01:53:16.439 --> 01:53:18.539 people will justify in the name of science, just 01:53:18.539 --> 01:53:20.140 like what Vincent Price is saying at the end 01:53:20.140 --> 01:53:22.859 of the first one. You know, like, well, we got 01:53:22.859 --> 01:53:25.500 teleportation, so what does it matter that some 01:53:25.500 --> 01:53:27.439 monkeys got killed? I'm going to look up real 01:53:27.439 --> 01:53:30.819 quick what year Primate came out. Primate? Primate. 01:53:31.300 --> 01:53:36.119 No, not Primate. Primate was 74. It's a Frederick 01:53:36.119 --> 01:53:39.199 Wiseman movie. It's a verite documentary about 01:53:39.199 --> 01:53:42.420 one of these scientific places where they do 01:53:42.420 --> 01:53:45.699 experiments on monkeys. Okay. And you watch these 01:53:45.699 --> 01:53:48.939 scientists. murder these monkeys in the most 01:53:48.939 --> 01:53:51.539 horrible ways like and you like kind of get to 01:53:51.539 --> 01:53:53.260 know like you know which monkeys it is and you 01:53:53.260 --> 01:53:54.619 see them do things or whatever and then you see 01:53:54.619 --> 01:53:56.399 them like dissecting this monkey that you just 01:53:56.399 --> 01:53:59.319 saw them playing with and you see them like well 01:53:59.319 --> 01:54:01.840 he's still alive like with his stomach open and 01:54:01.840 --> 01:54:03.579 he's looking at his open stomach and they're 01:54:03.579 --> 01:54:05.439 cutting pieces at like you know what i mean it's 01:54:05.439 --> 01:54:08.359 like they're doing the most horrible fascistic 01:54:08.359 --> 01:54:11.039 nazi experiments on these apes and then in the 01:54:11.039 --> 01:54:15.819 end he does a you know which he hardly ever does 01:54:15.819 --> 01:54:17.920 in his movies, but he does an extended shot of 01:54:17.920 --> 01:54:21.960 a speech of one of these scientists at a fundraiser 01:54:21.960 --> 01:54:24.979 where he's trying to raise funding for his thing. 01:54:25.479 --> 01:54:27.640 And his speech is basically just like, look, 01:54:27.739 --> 01:54:30.220 we don't really know what good we're doing here, 01:54:30.399 --> 01:54:32.319 but we need to keep experimenting so that we 01:54:32.319 --> 01:54:34.340 can figure out what good there is down the line. 01:54:34.779 --> 01:54:38.220 You know what I mean? We're actually experimenting 01:54:38.220 --> 01:54:41.300 on these monkeys just for no reason, just kind 01:54:41.300 --> 01:54:44.300 of testing the limits of torture. How else are 01:54:44.300 --> 01:54:46.180 we going to know the limits of torture unless 01:54:46.180 --> 01:54:48.100 we torture these monkeys? You know what I mean? 01:54:48.720 --> 01:54:52.439 It's so self -evidently horrifying after you've 01:54:52.439 --> 01:54:55.239 watched this. 74, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think 01:54:55.239 --> 01:54:56.640 that that might have something to do with, I 01:54:56.640 --> 01:54:59.300 mean, it's, you know. 12 years later, I don't 01:54:59.300 --> 01:55:01.180 know. But the idea of changing it from a cat 01:55:01.180 --> 01:55:04.079 to an ape just evokes that to me. I guess also 01:55:04.079 --> 01:55:07.380 an ape is more human and whatever. But yeah, 01:55:07.460 --> 01:55:09.680 that doc is basically Wiseman saying there's 01:55:09.680 --> 01:55:11.619 no difference between the scientists and the 01:55:11.619 --> 01:55:16.079 Nazis. These are all like Mengele surgeons who 01:55:16.079 --> 01:55:18.819 are doing this to humanoid looking animals and 01:55:18.819 --> 01:55:21.960 whatever. And you watch it and it is by far the 01:55:21.960 --> 01:55:23.760 most disturbing thing I've ever seen because 01:55:23.760 --> 01:55:27.390 it's real. And the people in that doc are monsters. 01:55:27.590 --> 01:55:32.729 I mean, real, real monsters that it's like, I 01:55:32.729 --> 01:55:34.489 don't, I don't think people are born that way. 01:55:34.510 --> 01:55:36.430 Like, you know what I mean? I, I, I think that 01:55:36.430 --> 01:55:38.010 there are people who are born with certain things 01:55:38.010 --> 01:55:39.270 and deficiencies and whatever and blah, blah, 01:55:39.329 --> 01:55:42.550 blah. But like, you need to be, you need to be 01:55:42.550 --> 01:55:45.750 socialized to, to something to be that monstrous. 01:55:45.750 --> 01:55:47.810 You need to like get away with it over and over 01:55:47.810 --> 01:55:51.189 and slowly become the person that thinks that 01:55:51.189 --> 01:55:54.239 this is okay. And like, These are like they're 01:55:54.239 --> 01:55:57.119 like masturbating these apes and then cutting 01:55:57.119 --> 01:55:59.800 them to pieces and like then trying to teach 01:55:59.800 --> 01:56:02.739 them things like it's it is a level of monstrosity 01:56:02.739 --> 01:56:07.399 that is only available to nerds. Like no jocks 01:56:07.399 --> 01:56:09.619 have ever been that horrifying. That's the difference 01:56:09.619 --> 01:56:13.680 from the Holocaust from every previous war. Like 01:56:13.680 --> 01:56:16.779 is that nerds were introduced, IBM was introduced, 01:56:16.859 --> 01:56:20.579 that type of science and love of the system over 01:56:20.579 --> 01:56:23.340 the individual thing. Like that is the difference. 01:56:24.159 --> 01:56:26.560 Yeah. And isn't that like an early sign of like 01:56:26.560 --> 01:56:29.869 psychopathic? serial killer behavior is your 01:56:29.869 --> 01:56:32.369 ability to torture animals of course yeah yeah 01:56:32.369 --> 01:56:35.529 yeah it's absolutely just yeah despicable to 01:56:35.529 --> 01:56:37.569 see other living things as disposable for you 01:56:37.569 --> 01:56:40.869 yeah yeah exactly i mean dude i mean look like 01:56:40.869 --> 01:56:42.909 life comes from death and whatever i understand 01:56:42.909 --> 01:56:45.329 it but it's the enjoyment of it it's the it's 01:56:45.329 --> 01:56:47.170 the i don't it's not just the enjoyment it's 01:56:47.170 --> 01:56:48.829 the it's the lack of enjoyment i don't know is 01:56:48.829 --> 01:56:50.770 there something so monstrous about the scientific 01:56:50.770 --> 01:56:52.739 nature of it And also, especially if nothing 01:56:52.739 --> 01:56:54.699 really comes out of it, if it's, if it's all 01:56:54.699 --> 01:56:58.279 about like Mengele shit or like, you know, MK 01:56:58.279 --> 01:57:00.220 ultra stuff, we're just kind of like torturing 01:57:00.220 --> 01:57:02.420 people and like fucking them up just to figure 01:57:02.420 --> 01:57:04.000 something out. And then we don't really find 01:57:04.000 --> 01:57:06.659 out anything. Right. There's not a thing that 01:57:06.659 --> 01:57:09.029 we're gaining from torturing this ape. Like, 01:57:09.029 --> 01:57:10.829 it's just that if we torture a lot of them, maybe 01:57:10.829 --> 01:57:13.109 we'll find some sort of a pattern. It's like, 01:57:13.189 --> 01:57:15.109 that's what science is and blah, blah, blah. 01:57:15.210 --> 01:57:17.489 And it's like, oh, so then you shouldn't do it. 01:57:17.649 --> 01:57:21.189 Like, it actually is just wrong on the face of 01:57:21.189 --> 01:57:24.069 it. When you see how you actually have to, like, 01:57:24.130 --> 01:57:26.529 the operations of creating, all those things 01:57:26.529 --> 01:57:29.229 that you say are great and justified. And I'm 01:57:29.229 --> 01:57:32.850 not saying that I wanted your son to not be born. 01:57:32.970 --> 01:57:34.989 Like, you know what I mean? I'm not. There are 01:57:34.989 --> 01:57:37.960 good things that come out of this. But I just, 01:57:38.020 --> 01:57:40.319 when you look at the things that had to be, that 01:57:40.319 --> 01:57:43.000 are routinely and consistently and constantly 01:57:43.000 --> 01:57:45.539 being done to maintain that thing and to push 01:57:45.539 --> 01:57:48.300 it forward. And when you weigh those. It's a 01:57:48.300 --> 01:57:51.060 real deal with the devil. It is. Like accepting 01:57:51.060 --> 01:57:53.340 progress and technology and stuff. Yeah. That's, 01:57:53.340 --> 01:57:55.579 I mean, that's what we said in the 2001 episode. 01:57:55.920 --> 01:57:59.579 Yeah. Yeah. But I was really, really disturbed 01:57:59.579 --> 01:58:02.699 to find out that there are still many labs even 01:58:02.699 --> 01:58:05.659 today that do this to dogs. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:58:05.659 --> 01:58:07.579 What's -his -name was doing it, right? Fauci? 01:58:08.340 --> 01:58:10.180 That was one of Fauci's labs that was letting 01:58:10.180 --> 01:58:14.680 dogs get eaten by flesh -eating flies. I mean, 01:58:14.680 --> 01:58:17.439 they're doing all kinds of things to them. I 01:58:17.439 --> 01:58:18.899 think it was beagles, though. It was beagles 01:58:18.899 --> 01:58:21.279 and flesh -eating flies was a Fauci thing. It's 01:58:21.279 --> 01:58:24.199 beagles because beagles will never turn against 01:58:24.199 --> 01:58:27.520 you. no matter how much you torture them so like 01:58:27.520 --> 01:58:30.779 that's even more sadistic but like they were 01:58:30.779 --> 01:58:33.640 doing some just like yeah they're doing fucking 01:58:33.640 --> 01:58:37.329 horrifying things to beagles forcing them to 01:58:37.329 --> 01:58:39.850 have heart attacks like exposing them to all 01:58:39.850 --> 01:58:41.729 this kind of shit that would give them like cancers 01:58:41.729 --> 01:58:44.310 and whatever and again like look man i'm not 01:58:44.310 --> 01:58:46.510 i'm not some seeing what kind of pain they could 01:58:46.510 --> 01:58:49.069 deal i'm not some bleeding heart right like i 01:58:49.069 --> 01:58:52.149 i love dogs and shit like you know but like i 01:58:52.149 --> 01:58:54.710 i'm not a vegetarian i understand that my life 01:58:54.710 --> 01:58:58.329 comes at the expense of mass death like i i understand 01:58:58.329 --> 01:59:00.470 that the conveniences that i live with in america 01:59:00.470 --> 01:59:03.310 come at the expense of you know people dying 01:59:03.310 --> 01:59:04.869 in the middle east for my convenience whatever 01:59:04.869 --> 01:59:06.729 it is there are many things that i am living 01:59:06.729 --> 01:59:08.390 off of that are evils that are being done in 01:59:08.390 --> 01:59:11.470 my name but i think that the thing that's specific 01:59:11.470 --> 01:59:15.670 to the scientific paradigm is that when people 01:59:15.670 --> 01:59:19.289 work in a lab with those apes all day long torturing 01:59:19.289 --> 01:59:21.329 those apes then they go out and they integrate 01:59:21.329 --> 01:59:25.390 into society and they normalize all of those 01:59:25.390 --> 01:59:28.210 ideas that come from that lab some of those ideas 01:59:28.210 --> 01:59:31.229 are how to cure cancer But a lot of them have 01:59:31.229 --> 01:59:34.729 to do with a psychotic distance from the damage 01:59:34.729 --> 01:59:37.170 that you are doing that you can see and not being 01:59:37.170 --> 01:59:40.489 able to not see what you are seeing and get through 01:59:40.489 --> 01:59:42.210 the day, like those sorts of things. And then 01:59:42.210 --> 01:59:44.470 normalizing that to the rest of the non -scientific 01:59:44.470 --> 01:59:47.529 population and all that, like that is a much 01:59:47.529 --> 01:59:51.090 bigger thing that is not really traceable. You 01:59:51.090 --> 01:59:53.170 know what I mean? It's a vibe shift situation. 01:59:54.859 --> 01:59:57.020 the normalization of that, the fact that people 01:59:57.020 --> 02:00:00.539 do not see like scientists as automatically monstrous, 02:00:00.539 --> 02:00:03.340 that that has been normalized and that we, you 02:00:03.340 --> 02:00:06.359 know, it's justified. I mean, well, like I'm, 02:00:06.359 --> 02:00:08.560 I'm also, I feel the same way as you, man. And 02:00:08.560 --> 02:00:10.800 I'm not like, I'm a meat eater and yada, yada, 02:00:10.800 --> 02:00:13.560 yada. It's like, it doesn't mean you can't criticize 02:00:13.560 --> 02:00:15.779 the systems that are out of your control that 02:00:15.779 --> 02:00:19.720 have made it into such a like. horrible I'm saying 02:00:19.720 --> 02:00:23.060 I'm a meat eater and yes and like you can talk 02:00:23.060 --> 02:00:26.479 about mass factory you know killing of meat being 02:00:26.479 --> 02:00:29.140 a problem or whatever but like I still think 02:00:29.140 --> 02:00:31.180 as a meat eater I don't want to hang out with 02:00:31.180 --> 02:00:34.520 the guy whose job it is to just like murder cows 02:00:34.520 --> 02:00:37.680 one after the next all day long like I think 02:00:37.680 --> 02:00:39.680 that that guy is getting normalized to something 02:00:39.680 --> 02:00:43.020 that is probably making him into a weird monster 02:00:43.020 --> 02:00:45.909 and I'm not saying that like Killing a cow is 02:00:45.909 --> 02:00:48.850 just like if I killed every cow that I ate, I'd 02:00:48.850 --> 02:00:50.970 have to probably kill five or so by now. You 02:00:50.970 --> 02:00:52.949 know what I mean? There's a lot of meat on each 02:00:52.949 --> 02:00:55.109 cow. If you're killing the amount of cows for 02:00:55.109 --> 02:00:59.390 the entire society, you're absorbing a lot of 02:00:59.390 --> 02:01:01.770 violence and normalizing it and becoming a bit 02:01:01.770 --> 02:01:03.489 of a monster. And I think that's similar with 02:01:03.489 --> 02:01:05.310 like all this experimentation and all these things 02:01:05.310 --> 02:01:08.579 like it's. The people and then the philosophies 02:01:08.579 --> 02:01:10.619 and ideas that come from those people, the transhumanist 02:01:10.619 --> 02:01:13.460 philosophies, for instance, those are the things 02:01:13.460 --> 02:01:16.720 that are normalized that are truly and deeply 02:01:16.720 --> 02:01:20.119 evil. And yes, like the torture of the apes is 02:01:20.119 --> 02:01:21.579 something that's horrible to watch and whatever. 02:01:21.920 --> 02:01:24.500 But it's like I could almost justify a lot of 02:01:24.500 --> 02:01:27.800 those things in a like justification way. It's 02:01:27.800 --> 02:01:31.840 the it's the actual evil that it's doing. Like, 02:01:31.840 --> 02:01:33.829 I don't know. You know, there's something. There's 02:01:33.829 --> 02:01:35.949 something specific, the perversion that is happening. 02:01:36.010 --> 02:01:37.770 It's the perversion that Cronenberg is making 02:01:37.770 --> 02:01:39.569 all of his movies about, actually. It is that 02:01:39.569 --> 02:01:41.270 perversion that is happening from that integration 02:01:41.270 --> 02:01:47.350 and the distribution of suffering. Well, I think 02:01:47.350 --> 02:01:50.489 it's very connected to just like capital and 02:01:50.489 --> 02:01:53.430 progress and growth and all the systems that 02:01:53.430 --> 02:01:56.890 we now exist within. Of course. That's like kind 02:01:56.890 --> 02:01:59.029 of what perverts it because, yeah, there's nothing 02:01:59.029 --> 02:02:02.500 perverted about... the natural act of killing 02:02:02.500 --> 02:02:05.239 so that you can eat that humans have engaged 02:02:05.239 --> 02:02:08.380 with for all of humanity you know but it's also 02:02:08.380 --> 02:02:10.340 like look let's say there are so many stray cats 02:02:10.340 --> 02:02:13.819 in philadelphia that like somebody needs to be 02:02:13.819 --> 02:02:16.420 rounding up these cats and unfortunately there 02:02:16.420 --> 02:02:18.460 aren't enough homes for them so we need to be 02:02:18.460 --> 02:02:20.880 putting them down and that's sad or whatever 02:02:20.880 --> 02:02:22.960 and blah blah i still don't want to hang out 02:02:22.960 --> 02:02:25.779 with a person who puts down cats all day that's 02:02:25.779 --> 02:02:28.840 a person who like I probably should be ostracized. 02:02:28.859 --> 02:02:30.680 Like if I, if I was on like a blind date with 02:02:30.680 --> 02:02:32.720 somebody like, oh yeah, I kill cats. That's what 02:02:32.720 --> 02:02:35.979 I do. I'd be like, oh, you're okay. Like, I'm 02:02:35.979 --> 02:02:38.039 not saying that what you do is unnecessary and 02:02:38.039 --> 02:02:40.060 doesn't contribute to society, but it's just 02:02:40.060 --> 02:02:41.779 like, I fucking think you're a weird monster 02:02:41.779 --> 02:02:43.960 and I don't want to talk to you. And I just feel 02:02:43.960 --> 02:02:45.779 like that's the way that we should feel about 02:02:45.779 --> 02:02:47.659 scientists where it's like, well, it's good that 02:02:47.659 --> 02:02:49.699 cancer and whatever, thank you. And blah, blah, 02:02:49.720 --> 02:02:52.449 blah. But also like, just don't, don't. talk 02:02:52.449 --> 02:02:55.170 to me about any of your views or opinions or 02:02:55.170 --> 02:02:57.829 like, I just don't want to hear from a fucking 02:02:57.829 --> 02:03:01.069 scientist about anything. Yeah. I don't know 02:03:01.069 --> 02:03:02.789 how you can exist in this world now without having 02:03:02.789 --> 02:03:05.470 a major cognitive dissonance about all this. 02:03:05.510 --> 02:03:07.590 You know, it's just like, it is what it is. It's 02:03:07.590 --> 02:03:10.130 really, but I think that, I think that, I think 02:03:10.130 --> 02:03:13.189 that a lot of this is, you know, the paradigm 02:03:13.189 --> 02:03:17.239 of Success is, like we've been saying a couple 02:03:17.239 --> 02:03:19.180 of times, determined by the women in some of 02:03:19.180 --> 02:03:21.939 these cases. And if women are going out and sleeping 02:03:21.939 --> 02:03:24.600 with scientists, then nobody's really punishing 02:03:24.600 --> 02:03:26.060 the nerds for being the nerds. Like, you know 02:03:26.060 --> 02:03:28.590 what I mean? Yeah, exactly. I think that, you 02:03:28.590 --> 02:03:30.430 know, women probably are not sleeping with the 02:03:30.430 --> 02:03:32.369 guy who kills cats all day. That might be an 02:03:32.369 --> 02:03:35.510 unattractive quality. But we see scientists as 02:03:35.510 --> 02:03:37.189 an attractive quality. This is something that 02:03:37.189 --> 02:03:39.810 is being chosen and put up. These people are 02:03:39.810 --> 02:03:43.010 being successful socially and politically and 02:03:43.010 --> 02:03:47.050 sexually and all these things. Financially. Financially. 02:03:47.350 --> 02:03:50.289 The nerds make a lot of money, man, at this point. 02:03:50.470 --> 02:03:53.210 Yeah. And I think that at the very least, we 02:03:53.210 --> 02:03:56.029 as a society could put some sort of a... A spin 02:03:56.029 --> 02:03:58.350 on it that's like, oh, yeah, you got the finances, 02:03:58.529 --> 02:04:00.810 but you're a fucking disgusting monster and nobody 02:04:00.810 --> 02:04:02.750 wants to talk to you or be around you. It's like, 02:04:02.770 --> 02:04:05.189 no, we just value the finances over any of those 02:04:05.189 --> 02:04:07.350 things. And that's my problem. It's like the 02:04:07.350 --> 02:04:08.890 people who are sleeping with Elon Musk are as 02:04:08.890 --> 02:04:12.050 bad as Elon Musk. You're validating an ideology 02:04:12.050 --> 02:04:16.359 through like... your approval of this person 02:04:16.359 --> 02:04:18.439 and allowing him to feel like he's a human being 02:04:18.439 --> 02:04:21.859 even though we all know that he's not he should 02:04:21.859 --> 02:04:24.899 be shunned i mean he should be made to feel that 02:04:24.899 --> 02:04:27.659 he should kill himself yeah i mean so right there 02:04:27.659 --> 02:04:31.119 is uh kind of the same justification though you 02:04:31.119 --> 02:04:32.619 know that like you got to break some omelets 02:04:32.619 --> 02:04:35.539 to make some eggs is that like if these nerds 02:04:35.539 --> 02:04:38.859 are truly evil then like I don't know. This is 02:04:38.859 --> 02:04:40.880 the slippery slope, right, where, like, you could 02:04:40.880 --> 02:04:43.500 justify the genocide of the nerds, so to speak. 02:04:44.500 --> 02:04:47.060 Like, because look at what they're going to do 02:04:47.060 --> 02:04:49.600 to our society. Like, they are evil. And, like, 02:04:49.699 --> 02:04:52.760 just, like, look 50 years down the road to what 02:04:52.760 --> 02:04:54.479 we're going to get if we let these guys take 02:04:54.479 --> 02:04:56.739 over. So we should, like, kill them all, right? 02:04:56.800 --> 02:04:59.760 Nip it in the bud. And it's, like, and then that 02:04:59.760 --> 02:05:01.899 is also, like, I don't know that I could ever, 02:05:01.960 --> 02:05:04.859 under any circumstance, support a genocide of 02:05:04.859 --> 02:05:08.340 any people, no matter how... logical the argument 02:05:08.340 --> 02:05:11.739 is that they're evil or whatever. But I think 02:05:11.739 --> 02:05:14.319 that what you could do is stigmatize their side 02:05:14.319 --> 02:05:17.159 of the argument and show that they are Nazis 02:05:17.159 --> 02:05:19.300 and that there's a reason that we defeated the 02:05:19.300 --> 02:05:21.619 Nazis instead of just importing them into our 02:05:21.619 --> 02:05:24.520 country and letting them take over. But I think 02:05:24.520 --> 02:05:27.380 the problem is that happened and they were stigmatized 02:05:27.380 --> 02:05:29.640 and they were the losers, but then they took 02:05:29.640 --> 02:05:32.539 over. They figured out a way to win. You know, 02:05:32.579 --> 02:05:34.939 when you, when you bully someone and push them 02:05:34.939 --> 02:05:37.819 down and make them the pariah, like ultimately 02:05:37.819 --> 02:05:40.199 that's going to be their desire and what happens. 02:05:40.199 --> 02:05:42.180 And they're going to be like, Hitler was a nerd, 02:05:42.279 --> 02:05:44.720 right? I don't know. Hitler was the original 02:05:44.720 --> 02:05:48.420 nerd. Yeah, dude. He's a fucking nerd. Like a 02:05:48.420 --> 02:05:50.000 lot of those guys are nerds. He's like the nerd 02:05:50.000 --> 02:05:53.199 who like, Co -opted all the boars. Maybe our 02:05:53.199 --> 02:05:55.159 next episode should be Mein Kampf. I haven't 02:05:55.159 --> 02:05:58.079 read it, but I bet it's very similar to Revenge 02:05:58.079 --> 02:06:00.720 of the Nerds. You know, I would bet it's like, 02:06:00.800 --> 02:06:03.000 they fucking never gave me this and they never 02:06:03.000 --> 02:06:05.439 got this and I'm going to take it. You know what 02:06:05.439 --> 02:06:08.180 I mean? Like all these Jews in charge, they're 02:06:08.180 --> 02:06:11.460 taking all the women and they're... Yeah. That 02:06:11.460 --> 02:06:14.380 ends up being like the narrative that justifies 02:06:14.380 --> 02:06:17.689 any kind of genocidal horror. like what we're 02:06:17.689 --> 02:06:19.470 seeing today or whatever. It always has to be 02:06:19.470 --> 02:06:22.130 structured in terms of good and evil. And we 02:06:22.130 --> 02:06:24.630 were the victims. And so we get to, we deserve 02:06:24.630 --> 02:06:27.430 to do this and we deserve revenge. Yeah. We deserve 02:06:27.430 --> 02:06:31.189 revenge. And yeah, it's like, that's, yeah, it's 02:06:31.189 --> 02:06:35.729 gross. It's pretty horrible. I don't know. I 02:06:35.729 --> 02:06:38.630 don't know what we do about that, but hopefully 02:06:38.630 --> 02:06:41.590 stigmatize it. Yeah. At the very least stigmatize 02:06:41.590 --> 02:06:45.510 it. You can, uh, I guess just on that subject 02:06:45.510 --> 02:06:48.640 of stigma, I really think that that's kind of 02:06:48.640 --> 02:06:50.880 the thing that Revenge of the Nerds did that's 02:06:50.880 --> 02:06:55.100 so evil and that I think really should be counteracted. 02:06:55.119 --> 02:06:56.840 I think Revenge of the Nerds is the movie that 02:06:56.840 --> 02:07:00.579 creates this archetype of the nerd and sort of 02:07:00.579 --> 02:07:03.239 tries to remove the stigma from that. And I think 02:07:03.239 --> 02:07:06.319 it really successfully did. And it made a path 02:07:06.319 --> 02:07:10.319 for all the brundleflies to kind of fucking take 02:07:10.319 --> 02:07:14.220 over. You know what I mean? Mm -hmm. Yeah. I 02:07:14.220 --> 02:07:17.479 think basically like... That's that's kind of 02:07:17.479 --> 02:07:20.159 it is like it's an info wars sort of a thing 02:07:20.159 --> 02:07:23.399 it's a it's a battle in the in the sphere of 02:07:23.399 --> 02:07:25.800 our human ideas much like we talked about with 02:07:25.800 --> 02:07:27.439 the moon landing and stuff like you know all 02:07:27.439 --> 02:07:30.579 these things but creating an iconography of the 02:07:30.579 --> 02:07:33.100 nerds being successful with the women and whatever 02:07:33.100 --> 02:07:37.119 creates a path for that actually to happen and 02:07:37.119 --> 02:07:39.819 it did and then I think in the fly we see you 02:07:39.819 --> 02:07:43.050 know. all the evils that come from that. The 02:07:43.050 --> 02:07:45.810 criticism of that or whatever. Yeah, the response 02:07:45.810 --> 02:07:47.729 to that. It's probably 1986 when The Fly came 02:07:47.729 --> 02:07:50.289 out. You already have that kind of being obvious 02:07:50.289 --> 02:07:52.409 in the culture. I mean, there's not that many 02:07:52.409 --> 02:07:55.069 years between Revenge of the Nerds and The Fly. 02:07:55.170 --> 02:07:56.850 Yes, that's what's also interesting about the 02:07:56.850 --> 02:07:58.590 timing of these. But Revenge of the Nerds did 02:07:58.590 --> 02:08:01.550 come first. The Fly is the movie that was made 02:08:01.550 --> 02:08:04.130 in a world where that movie existed, The Revenge 02:08:04.130 --> 02:08:06.689 of the Nerds. And like you said, I think that 02:08:06.689 --> 02:08:12.180 also informed so many movies. In the 90s and 02:08:12.180 --> 02:08:16.840 80s about, like, teens and school and, you know, 02:08:16.840 --> 02:08:18.779 social hierarchies and whatever. Because, like, 02:08:18.819 --> 02:08:21.140 you're right. Like, do you remember the movie 02:08:21.140 --> 02:08:24.220 The New Guy? Yeah. Fucking terrible movie. I 02:08:24.220 --> 02:08:26.079 watched it again somewhat recently. That's another, 02:08:26.180 --> 02:08:28.680 like, horrendously evil movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 02:08:29.779 --> 02:08:33.460 Like, where you watch this guy who's, like, you 02:08:33.460 --> 02:08:36.000 know, I don't know if he's a nerd. He's kind 02:08:36.000 --> 02:08:38.619 of an art kid, too. He plays funk music. But 02:08:38.619 --> 02:08:40.720 he's just, like, a loser who gets picked on at 02:08:40.720 --> 02:08:44.380 school. And then he tries to, like, reinvent 02:08:44.380 --> 02:08:47.859 himself and become a cool dude in the new school 02:08:47.859 --> 02:08:52.100 he goes into. And it's actually, like, really, 02:08:52.260 --> 02:08:56.840 really depraved watching how evil he is and how, 02:08:56.960 --> 02:08:59.659 like, dishonest he is. Right. To all the people 02:08:59.659 --> 02:09:01.960 around him. Because he thinks he deserves it 02:09:01.960 --> 02:09:03.500 because he didn't get it for the first part of 02:09:03.500 --> 02:09:05.350 his life. Because he thinks he deserves it. yeah 02:09:05.350 --> 02:09:07.109 yeah and how he gets the girl in the end even 02:09:07.109 --> 02:09:08.609 though he's been like lying to her the whole 02:09:08.609 --> 02:09:10.670 time which I guess is like kind of like Aladdin 02:09:10.670 --> 02:09:13.409 too you know it's like one of the things that's 02:09:13.409 --> 02:09:15.569 a little bit problematic about the Aladdin narrative 02:09:15.569 --> 02:09:17.930 is like you just lie to this girl and pretend 02:09:17.930 --> 02:09:19.229 you're someone you're not the whole time and 02:09:19.229 --> 02:09:22.090 then in the end when you're revealed to be your 02:09:22.090 --> 02:09:24.789 true self she'll just she'll just forgive you 02:09:24.789 --> 02:09:27.010 that's exactly what happens in Revenge of the 02:09:27.010 --> 02:09:30.529 Nerds too when he rapes the girl yeah exactly 02:09:30.529 --> 02:09:32.270 he's pretending you're her boyfriend and she'll 02:09:32.270 --> 02:09:34.939 forgive you but like Yeah, that's something that's 02:09:34.939 --> 02:09:37.159 in Aladdin. Like, Aladdin is also Revenge of 02:09:37.159 --> 02:09:40.600 the Nerds. It's like the poor, downtrodden dude 02:09:40.600 --> 02:09:42.579 who eventually gets the fucking princess because 02:09:42.579 --> 02:09:46.100 he lied his way into doing that and, like, gave 02:09:46.100 --> 02:09:48.140 him the system with a fucking magical genie. 02:09:48.300 --> 02:09:50.840 This is, like, actually is, like, this whole 02:09:50.840 --> 02:09:53.399 ethos is super embedded into popular culture 02:09:53.399 --> 02:09:57.300 of that time and so many narratives that are 02:09:57.300 --> 02:10:01.029 directly given to children and stuff. This is 02:10:01.029 --> 02:10:03.970 the thing, man. When you look at Star Trek, look 02:10:03.970 --> 02:10:06.630 at the nerds that were influenced by Star Trek 02:10:06.630 --> 02:10:09.470 and what they brought about. There's spaceships 02:10:09.470 --> 02:10:12.369 that are named after the Enterprise in the real 02:10:12.369 --> 02:10:17.670 world. The cell phone is something that was inspired 02:10:17.670 --> 02:10:20.850 by people watching people in Star Trek doing 02:10:20.850 --> 02:10:24.149 the flip phone thing. Many of the things that 02:10:24.149 --> 02:10:27.069 are in our reality today are things that came 02:10:27.069 --> 02:10:30.619 from science fiction and then The nerds that 02:10:30.619 --> 02:10:31.979 watched that science fiction were like, oh, I'm 02:10:31.979 --> 02:10:35.140 going to make this into reality. And that is 02:10:35.140 --> 02:10:37.319 exactly what happened with Revenge of the Nerds. 02:10:37.539 --> 02:10:39.520 Revenge of the Nerds is the Star Trek of the 02:10:39.520 --> 02:10:42.399 80s. It is. Like, oh, you could do this too. 02:10:42.460 --> 02:10:44.880 Just become a coder and then you can get images 02:10:44.880 --> 02:10:46.960 of women on your computer and you can distribute 02:10:46.960 --> 02:10:49.100 them and make money off of it and defeat the 02:10:49.100 --> 02:10:51.520 paradigm and then get rich enough off of that 02:10:51.520 --> 02:10:54.439 that you could actually get the women. And then 02:10:54.439 --> 02:10:58.159 what happened is Zuckerberg and the rest of them 02:10:58.159 --> 02:11:01.920 did it. They brought that into reality. This 02:11:01.920 --> 02:11:06.520 is a science fiction projection of a future that 02:11:06.520 --> 02:11:09.600 then came because it was projected, because the 02:11:09.600 --> 02:11:11.880 roadmap was laid down, and because it was not 02:11:11.880 --> 02:11:14.659 stigmatized. Because they removed the stigma 02:11:14.659 --> 02:11:19.380 from this inherently, obviously evil, fascistic 02:11:19.380 --> 02:11:24.020 view of the world. I mean, it doesn't take a 02:11:24.020 --> 02:11:27.670 genius to point out. This whole idea of like, 02:11:27.810 --> 02:11:29.670 you know, with the whole AI revolution happening 02:11:29.670 --> 02:11:31.510 and whatever, it's just like, didn't any of you 02:11:31.510 --> 02:11:34.529 guys watch Terminator? Right. Why do you want 02:11:34.529 --> 02:11:36.090 to create the things that you saw? They did, 02:11:36.229 --> 02:11:38.630 and James Cameron made Terminator, and he's one 02:11:38.630 --> 02:11:40.789 of them. Like, James Cameron's one of these techno 02:11:40.789 --> 02:11:44.500 -utopians. He actually sort of has been outspoken 02:11:44.500 --> 02:11:48.119 about AI and the dangers of it recently. I understand, 02:11:49.399 --> 02:11:51.340 but we've done this before where it's like talking 02:11:51.340 --> 02:11:53.779 about whether AI is going to destroy the world 02:11:53.779 --> 02:11:55.699 or whether AI is going to save the world is talking 02:11:55.699 --> 02:11:57.619 about how AI is the most important thing in the 02:11:57.619 --> 02:11:59.520 world. Like no matter which way it is. No, no, 02:11:59.579 --> 02:12:02.500 I understand that. It's an advertisement for 02:12:02.500 --> 02:12:04.420 AI to talk about that it's monstrous and it's 02:12:04.420 --> 02:12:06.140 an advertisement to AI to talk about how it's 02:12:06.140 --> 02:12:08.880 incredible. Like James Cameron is not a guy who's 02:12:08.880 --> 02:12:12.359 an AI shrugger. And that's the only real anti 02:12:12.359 --> 02:12:15.600 AI is like the people like me, where you're just 02:12:15.600 --> 02:12:17.500 kind of like, it doesn't fucking, what are you 02:12:17.500 --> 02:12:19.840 talking about? You know what I mean? You're just 02:12:19.840 --> 02:12:22.220 still talking about Google. Like I don't, okay. 02:12:23.000 --> 02:12:25.000 I didn't, I didn't bring this up in our talk 02:12:25.000 --> 02:12:27.180 about 2001, but I think one of the most like 02:12:27.180 --> 02:12:31.439 ironic and like tone deaf examples of like the 02:12:31.439 --> 02:12:35.720 new techno utopians co -opting. a like old symbol 02:12:35.720 --> 02:12:38.079 and not like realizing what they're doing is 02:12:38.079 --> 02:12:40.560 that there actually was an iphone ad where the 02:12:40.560 --> 02:12:43.680 iphone was the monolith from 2001 yeah yeah yeah 02:12:43.680 --> 02:12:45.960 and the monkey and the monkeys were all around 02:12:45.960 --> 02:12:49.399 the iphone right or whatever it's just like wow 02:12:49.399 --> 02:12:52.500 like do you guys like realize what you're doing 02:12:52.500 --> 02:12:55.380 here or do you not or do you not care or like 02:12:55.380 --> 02:12:58.439 what the fuck you know what i mean it's such 02:12:58.439 --> 02:13:02.279 a weird thing to do to be like, yeah, we are 02:13:02.279 --> 02:13:06.159 the monolith. Yeah, because they think that 2001 02:13:06.159 --> 02:13:09.460 is Arthur C. Clarke's movie about our beautiful 02:13:09.460 --> 02:13:12.899 future of technology. They don't understand that 02:13:12.899 --> 02:13:14.979 it's Stanley Kubrick's movie giving the finger 02:13:14.979 --> 02:13:18.420 to Arthur C. Clarke and all of these other idiots 02:13:18.420 --> 02:13:20.979 who are then going about and bringing about this 02:13:20.979 --> 02:13:23.539 reality. I mean, based off of the science fiction 02:13:23.539 --> 02:13:28.020 path that they lay. Yeah. Well. I don't know. 02:13:28.039 --> 02:13:29.159 Do you have any final thoughts? I feel like the 02:13:29.159 --> 02:13:31.000 past three or four episodes have all wrapped 02:13:31.000 --> 02:13:33.140 up with the same sentiment, which is like, fuck 02:13:33.140 --> 02:13:35.979 the techno utopians. But, uh, do you have anything 02:13:35.979 --> 02:13:39.699 else to say? Fuck the techno utopians. Yeah. 02:13:40.539 --> 02:13:45.500 Fuck the techno utopians. And I'd say that's 02:13:45.500 --> 02:13:47.399 that mattress, man. That's that. That's that. 02:14:06.300 --> 02:14:06.600 Thank you.