WEBVTT 00:00:03.020 --> 00:00:05.599 See, I believe that all the mysteries of the 00:00:05.599 --> 00:00:07.339 universe, all the answers to life's questions can be found in a Spielberg film. 00:00:07.339 --> 00:00:09.080 I've been afraid for all of my life. Why doesn’t 00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:10.580 somebody just shoot me in the head? Right up 00:00:10.580 --> 00:00:12.820 until the day I knew my life was ending. You 00:00:12.820 --> 00:00:16.100 look bad. No, man. You smell bad. I'm pretty 00:00:16.100 --> 00:00:18.339 fucking far from Ok. Really, I feel like I'm sharing 00:00:18.339 --> 00:00:20.679 a very- Look at my shit. I had an affair.- Precious 00:00:20.679 --> 00:00:22.600 moment with you. There are no nations. There are 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:24.920 no peoples. Are you threatening me, dick? You 00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:27.440 don't approve. Fake. Well, too bad. Totally fake. 00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:29.620 Did it seem fake- You look like a damn crackhead. 00:00:29.620 --> 00:00:31.920 When my best friend was bitten in half in front of me? I found this cover story 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:35.870 personally embarrassing myself. Plenty of sausage and pepperonis. Everything but the little fishies 00:00:35.870 --> 00:00:40.409 All right. All right. Welcome to Everything But 00:00:40.409 --> 00:00:43.229 The Little Fishies. Welcome. I'm Evan. I'm Mike. 00:00:43.369 --> 00:00:46.070 And today we have a very special episode for 00:00:46.070 --> 00:00:48.929 you. We're actually in person. Yeah, we're actually 00:00:48.929 --> 00:00:52.950 in person. Some context that we've never made 00:00:52.950 --> 00:00:55.270 entirely clear on the show before, but Mike and 00:00:55.270 --> 00:00:58.030 I actually live on opposite sides of the country. 00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:04.140 um in the great us of a and uh we have always 00:01:04.140 --> 00:01:07.640 done this podcast over the phone recording on 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:09.680 our separate ends and then bringing it together 00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:13.079 so we're this is the first time uh that we're 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:16.680 face to face i uh i'm back in the east coast 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:18.739 on a little trip and we thought it'd be fun to 00:01:18.739 --> 00:01:22.060 get together and pump one out see how it works 00:01:22.060 --> 00:01:25.359 yeah it's our 20th episode so it feels fitting 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:28.909 to do something special Important anniversary. 00:01:29.329 --> 00:01:34.730 Yeah, yeah. A couple decades. But yeah, because 00:01:34.730 --> 00:01:36.150 it was a little bit of a last minute decision, 00:01:36.329 --> 00:01:40.390 we weren't exactly sure what the topic should 00:01:40.390 --> 00:01:42.109 be, if we should stay on the schedule we were 00:01:42.109 --> 00:01:44.569 trying to do, or if we should try to do something 00:01:44.569 --> 00:01:46.569 different. And I don't know, Mike, do you want 00:01:46.569 --> 00:01:48.989 to set the scene for what we're going to answer 00:01:48.989 --> 00:01:50.810 here? Yeah, I figured we'd just do a one -off 00:01:50.810 --> 00:01:56.719 and watch some weird shit that... basically i 00:01:56.719 --> 00:01:58.939 don't have figured out and you hadn't seen it 00:01:58.939 --> 00:02:03.579 and stuff so starting at least with zardoz you 00:02:03.579 --> 00:02:09.560 know john borman 1970 what for um 1974 and yeah 00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:12.759 basically a movie that i have seen before but 00:02:12.759 --> 00:02:15.460 you know like john borman i was so stoned that 00:02:15.460 --> 00:02:20.659 i basically don't remember it so you know kind 00:02:20.659 --> 00:02:22.659 of figured it might be an interesting sort of 00:02:22.659 --> 00:02:28.020 puzzle to try and figure out exactly so we um 00:02:28.020 --> 00:02:30.659 mike picked me up at like midnight last night 00:02:30.659 --> 00:02:35.240 and um we drove back to his place and i kind 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:37.580 of just wanted to go to bed but we ended up shooting 00:02:37.580 --> 00:02:41.400 the shit and we turned on zardoz and uh it was 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:45.300 my second time seeing zardoz um it was enough 00:02:45.300 --> 00:02:48.250 fun to continue watching the whole thing we're 00:02:48.250 --> 00:02:49.870 kind of at first just like uh let's watch the 00:02:49.870 --> 00:02:52.729 beginning and then maybe finish it tomorrow and 00:02:52.729 --> 00:02:56.210 we yeah we watched the whole movie uh and you 00:02:56.210 --> 00:02:57.590 know got to bed at like three in the morning 00:02:57.590 --> 00:03:02.629 it moves it moves yeah it's pretty fun and so 00:03:02.629 --> 00:03:04.990 we decided that you know this morning we would 00:03:04.990 --> 00:03:08.110 talk about zardoz and then we'll take a little 00:03:08.110 --> 00:03:11.199 break and we'll figure out um what movie we want 00:03:11.199 --> 00:03:13.159 to watch next based on where this conversation 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:15.280 goes. And then we'll come back and record that 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:18.020 half. Maybe another thing that we haven't seen 00:03:18.020 --> 00:03:21.060 and figure out. Maybe something we'll see. We'll 00:03:21.060 --> 00:03:26.099 see what happens. Well, cool. So, Zardoz. Quite 00:03:26.099 --> 00:03:28.520 a movie. Quite a film. It's quite a movie. Yeah. 00:03:30.219 --> 00:03:35.500 The first time I watched it, I was so torn about 00:03:35.500 --> 00:03:38.500 the way I felt about it because on the one hand, 00:03:39.150 --> 00:03:41.610 I felt that it had really incredible iconography. 00:03:42.409 --> 00:03:44.949 I mean, I was very aware of some of its iconography 00:03:44.949 --> 00:03:47.069 before I'd seen it and just like, wasn't aware 00:03:47.069 --> 00:03:49.169 of where, where that came from. The floating 00:03:49.169 --> 00:03:52.330 head. The floating head. And most famously, um, 00:03:52.449 --> 00:03:56.650 just Sean Connery's red underwear gun belt get 00:03:56.650 --> 00:04:00.889 up. Um, yeah, it's just like, I've seen that 00:04:00.889 --> 00:04:03.289 image around. I'm just like, what the fuck? What 00:04:03.289 --> 00:04:06.889 movie is that from? It's like, they really got 00:04:06.889 --> 00:04:09.780 Sean Connery to do that. And apparently they 00:04:09.780 --> 00:04:12.439 got him to do it for very little money. His career 00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:15.699 wasn't exactly doing super well after Diamonds 00:04:15.699 --> 00:04:17.259 Are Forever, for whatever reason. The best of 00:04:17.259 --> 00:04:20.319 the Sean Connery bonds. I think they paid him 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:23.240 $200 ,000, which I guess is still nothing to 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:28.060 sneeze at in 1974. I'd take it to wear red underpants. 00:04:29.779 --> 00:04:33.759 But yeah, I mean, it's an incredibly bizarre 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:38.209 movie, so it's really hard to write off. The 00:04:38.209 --> 00:04:40.050 very beginning of the movie sets the tone in 00:04:40.050 --> 00:04:42.310 such a way that everything that comes after just 00:04:42.310 --> 00:04:44.670 feels like, yeah, why not? Like this all makes 00:04:44.670 --> 00:04:46.850 sense. I mean, the opening, the opening, just 00:04:46.850 --> 00:04:49.910 like floating head of Zarda. What's his actual 00:04:49.910 --> 00:04:52.589 name? Arthur Freen. Yeah. Arthur Freen. Like 00:04:52.589 --> 00:04:56.620 his, the, the opening where he's like. You know, 00:04:56.620 --> 00:05:00.639 it's highly satirical and full of irony and whatever. 00:05:00.939 --> 00:05:03.779 It's like so cheesy, but it's very, like it's 00:05:03.779 --> 00:05:05.600 on the nose. And he's like, he explains the whole 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:07.720 movie basically. He's just like, and I control 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:11.660 all the characters in this narrative and, and 00:05:11.660 --> 00:05:14.259 someone even controls me. The writer of the movie. 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:16.319 The writer of the movie. Yeah, it's all a movie 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:20.660 that you're watching. Yeah, exactly. And yeah, 00:05:20.740 --> 00:05:24.029 so like. it really sets the tone in a great way. 00:05:24.069 --> 00:05:28.170 That's hilarious and memorable. And like, you 00:05:28.170 --> 00:05:30.329 know, tells you that it's ironic and satirical, 00:05:30.389 --> 00:05:34.910 like from the start knows what it is. Yeah. And 00:05:34.910 --> 00:05:37.569 clearly by someone who's like thinking in circles 00:05:37.569 --> 00:05:40.250 and on a lot of drugs and kind of like, but what 00:05:40.250 --> 00:05:42.779 if the movie was about the movie? Making the 00:05:42.779 --> 00:05:44.680 movie and the movie. The first thing we should 00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:46.639 say is that this is a movie. And we should tell 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:48.420 them that the end of the movie is going to be 00:05:48.420 --> 00:05:50.899 this. And that in the end, it's all a movie. 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:53.699 Yeah. Let's start it with that and then get to 00:05:53.699 --> 00:05:56.000 the real stuff. And I feel like it's very possible. 00:05:56.680 --> 00:06:00.139 This might be one of the earliest sci -fis to 00:06:00.139 --> 00:06:03.439 kind of do something like that. But it derives 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:07.189 from like the late 60s. new wave movement and 00:06:07.189 --> 00:06:09.810 the kind of meta filmmaking they were doing like 00:06:09.810 --> 00:06:12.110 it's a very godard decision or something like 00:06:12.110 --> 00:06:14.329 that totally just like break the fourth wall 00:06:14.329 --> 00:06:15.930 and make you aware of the movie and it's like 00:06:15.930 --> 00:06:19.350 this is not some kind of fascist film that's 00:06:19.350 --> 00:06:22.149 trying to suck you and seduce you into some kind 00:06:22.149 --> 00:06:25.129 of didactic narrative about reality or whatever 00:06:25.129 --> 00:06:27.410 it is instead you're constantly aware that you're 00:06:27.410 --> 00:06:29.689 watching a movie and there's not one moment in 00:06:29.689 --> 00:06:32.389 sardaz that you're seduced by the movie like 00:06:32.389 --> 00:06:35.430 the entire time you are aware that you are watching 00:06:35.430 --> 00:06:39.029 sean connery in stupid outfit running around 00:06:39.029 --> 00:06:41.829 now he's in a wedding dress just like every decision 00:06:41.829 --> 00:06:44.670 is so like yeah it takes you out of the movie 00:06:44.670 --> 00:06:46.050 because just like i just can't even believe they're 00:06:46.050 --> 00:06:48.610 making this decision yeah that is so ridiculous 00:06:49.610 --> 00:06:51.389 And some of them are such incredible spectacle 00:06:51.389 --> 00:06:54.410 decisions, too. One of the things that I think 00:06:54.410 --> 00:06:57.829 stood out to me the most this time is that the 00:06:57.829 --> 00:07:00.490 craft of this movie is absolutely impeccable. 00:07:01.170 --> 00:07:03.970 That while you kind of imagine it as this cheesy 00:07:03.970 --> 00:07:07.990 sort of low -budget sort of vibe. It's almost 00:07:07.990 --> 00:07:10.470 like an episode of Star Trek. Yeah, it feels 00:07:10.470 --> 00:07:13.709 like a shitty Star Trek production. But then 00:07:13.709 --> 00:07:14.990 when you watch it, it's like, no, no, no. They 00:07:14.990 --> 00:07:19.370 nail things that are so expensive and difficult. 00:07:19.709 --> 00:07:21.110 One of the things that I think is the best is 00:07:21.110 --> 00:07:25.939 the... The projector stuff, the little ring that 00:07:25.939 --> 00:07:27.959 he's got that projects and he covers and whatever, 00:07:28.060 --> 00:07:30.139 and he projects it on the wall. When he's moving 00:07:30.139 --> 00:07:34.100 his arm around, it looks so much like it is actually 00:07:34.100 --> 00:07:36.540 being projected from the ring. And there's no 00:07:36.540 --> 00:07:38.360 way that in the 70s it was being projected from 00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:40.379 the ring. Obviously, there was a projector that 00:07:40.379 --> 00:07:42.879 they were matching perfectly. I think some of 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:45.060 them are composites. But then some of them are 00:07:45.060 --> 00:07:46.819 real projectiles. But there's also, like, there's 00:07:46.819 --> 00:07:48.259 definitely shots where he's, like, holding up 00:07:48.259 --> 00:07:50.079 the thing and it's pointed at the wall and the 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:52.800 wall is moving, like, the projection on the wall 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:54.279 is moving exactly with his hand. When it's an 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:56.819 eye and he, like, makes the third eye go on his 00:07:56.819 --> 00:07:58.300 forehead or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, 00:07:58.300 --> 00:08:01.779 those are such precise movements that exactly 00:08:01.779 --> 00:08:04.439 match his hand movements. That's, like, you'd 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:06.300 have to do a lot of takes of that and get the 00:08:06.300 --> 00:08:08.639 guy who was, like... panning the projector to 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:11.360 match up with Sean Connery's arm pan. Exactly. 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:14.220 The little details like that, it gets so incredibly 00:08:14.220 --> 00:08:18.019 well the whole time. Um, I agree. And, and just 00:08:18.019 --> 00:08:19.240 like some of the spectral stuff, like the fucking, 00:08:19.259 --> 00:08:22.040 the triangle room, the, the, the Ray Ionami, 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:24.959 you know, uh, room of course, the tabernacle, 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:27.579 the tabernacle that when you're inside that you 00:08:27.579 --> 00:08:30.019 see, like there's the one shot where the camera, 00:08:30.100 --> 00:08:35.200 um, um, booms down. And you can actually see 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:37.000 the three dimensions of the room. You can see 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:39.100 the depth because the perspective changes. And 00:08:39.100 --> 00:08:41.039 you can see that behind those walls where there's 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:43.039 those naked people just against the glass, like 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:45.700 those are actually people. And there are actually 00:08:45.700 --> 00:08:48.100 people like 30 feet behind them suspended in 00:08:48.100 --> 00:08:50.820 midair with like water falling on them, staying 00:08:50.820 --> 00:08:53.559 completely still for like five minutes. Like 00:08:53.559 --> 00:08:56.220 the amount of effort that was put into that set 00:08:56.220 --> 00:08:59.399 that's just like totally thrown away, like except 00:08:59.399 --> 00:09:01.500 for in that one boom shot where you actually 00:09:01.500 --> 00:09:02.980 can tell, oh shit, that's actually all there. 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:06.940 is like it's it's so much effort like that room 00:09:06.940 --> 00:09:10.299 had to have been like a giant you know 200 foot 00:09:10.299 --> 00:09:12.720 sound stage that had people in the background 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:14.600 whatever and then they had this little triangle 00:09:14.600 --> 00:09:16.179 in the front so that you could see the depth 00:09:16.179 --> 00:09:18.960 and you didn't need to do like it doesn't add 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:22.139 enough to the production value of the movie but 00:09:22.139 --> 00:09:24.039 it's just a thing that like is so impressive 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:26.580 when you notice it it's also like distracting 00:09:26.580 --> 00:09:28.379 like it takes you out of the movie just like 00:09:28.379 --> 00:09:30.240 everything else well i didn't really notice this 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:33.000 about it and i and i i was i'm i was skeptical 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:35.240 and maybe even still um that it's not just like 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:38.200 a trick or like something that they do for one 00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:40.139 shot while the other one does just have all these 00:09:40.139 --> 00:09:41.940 dolls hanging in the background because like 00:09:41.940 --> 00:09:44.220 they're really tiny and out of focus and yeah 00:09:44.220 --> 00:09:46.779 i i think you can see you can see the dolls or 00:09:46.779 --> 00:09:49.139 the people moving a little bit even in the deep 00:09:49.139 --> 00:09:52.820 background sometimes that like Maybe some of 00:09:52.820 --> 00:09:55.919 them are models and stuff. I wasn't able to find 00:09:55.919 --> 00:09:59.879 anything about it. You were saying that you found 00:09:59.879 --> 00:10:02.019 a bunch of people saying that the nudity in the 00:10:02.019 --> 00:10:05.080 movie was a problem for them and stuff. A lot 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:07.820 of the actors were annoyed by how nude they had 00:10:07.820 --> 00:10:09.899 to be and whatever. To me, that's just like, 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:11.539 yeah, if you had John Borman being like, all 00:10:11.539 --> 00:10:14.519 right, I need you to hang with your leg up and 00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:16.539 your two butt cheeks here and your face against 00:10:16.539 --> 00:10:19.100 this glass with water pouring on you for the 00:10:19.100 --> 00:10:21.639 next five minutes still silent and whatever. 00:10:22.139 --> 00:10:24.159 It's got to be fucking annoying. Well, the problem 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:27.299 is the nudity. That's the problem. It's that 00:10:27.299 --> 00:10:29.759 we have to be naked when we do that. But maybe 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:31.320 it's just like, maybe the nudity is the only 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:34.330 leverage we have because we can't say... that 00:10:34.330 --> 00:10:35.549 we don't want to be hung upside down and have 00:10:35.549 --> 00:10:37.610 water poured on us. Like this is a movie. Right. 00:10:37.750 --> 00:10:39.429 You got to do what you got to do. Right. And 00:10:39.429 --> 00:10:41.409 maybe the nudity, we can be like, yeah, but do 00:10:41.409 --> 00:10:44.190 we have to be naked? Really? And did they have 00:10:44.190 --> 00:10:47.509 to be naked? Not really, but it made it weirder 00:10:47.509 --> 00:10:50.309 and cooler and more like, I know, like, I don't 00:10:50.309 --> 00:10:52.710 know. It's like more impressive to like, but 00:10:52.710 --> 00:10:55.710 like, you know, if you're, you know, if you're, 00:10:55.710 --> 00:10:57.090 if you're going to defend the reality of the 00:10:57.090 --> 00:11:00.730 movie, like it's a pool that. creates clones 00:11:00.730 --> 00:11:04.350 essentially it regenerates right right the immortals 00:11:04.350 --> 00:11:05.990 that have died it's literally the same thing 00:11:05.990 --> 00:11:07.990 so like why would they show up in there with 00:11:07.990 --> 00:11:10.330 clothing right or like whatever you know of course 00:11:10.330 --> 00:11:12.889 and like yeah you could you could put like body 00:11:12.889 --> 00:11:15.289 suits on all these actors that like like peach 00:11:15.289 --> 00:11:17.690 colored or whatever skin colored right body suits 00:11:17.690 --> 00:11:20.350 and like eliminate the nipples eliminate the 00:11:20.350 --> 00:11:22.429 nipples or whatever it is just to make them feel 00:11:22.429 --> 00:11:23.730 more comfortable but still have it look good 00:11:23.730 --> 00:11:27.470 on camera but like it's I was saying it's cheaper 00:11:27.470 --> 00:11:31.529 to actually just get a bunch of actors and humiliate 00:11:31.529 --> 00:11:33.590 them than it is to build a bunch of realistic 00:11:33.590 --> 00:11:36.429 models or make a bunch of suits that they can 00:11:36.429 --> 00:11:39.230 wear or whatever it is. You were saying that 00:11:39.230 --> 00:11:41.090 when we saw the people in the plastic bags too. 00:11:41.090 --> 00:11:43.710 Yeah, the people in the plastic bags. It looks 00:11:43.710 --> 00:11:45.870 so uncomfortable. It doesn't look like they have 00:11:45.870 --> 00:11:47.389 any breathing tube in there or anything. The 00:11:47.389 --> 00:11:50.350 bags are like vacuum sealed to their faces in 00:11:50.350 --> 00:11:51.789 a way where it almost looks like their eyeball 00:11:51.789 --> 00:11:54.409 is touching the plastic. It's very impressive. 00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:57.340 Like, but again, it's an impressive thing that 00:11:57.340 --> 00:11:59.200 like takes you out of the movie. You're not watching 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:00.779 that feeling like I'm in this reality. You're 00:12:00.779 --> 00:12:02.100 watching that being like, look at them torturing 00:12:02.100 --> 00:12:04.440 this fucking actor. It feels exploitative. Like 00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:06.700 it's almost a bit of an exploitation film, which 00:12:06.700 --> 00:12:09.919 is very of the time. And I think this all kind 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:13.039 of segues into like how Joe Daworski inspired 00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:15.899 this movie feels for some reason, you know, like. 00:12:16.700 --> 00:12:20.159 In El Topo and the Holy Mountain, Joe Daworski 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:22.639 is like, at that time, a lot of filmmakers were 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:24.320 working in these environments that were pretty 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:26.820 problematic and toxic, but through that created 00:12:26.820 --> 00:12:30.539 some kind of insane synergy and magic that they 00:12:30.539 --> 00:12:33.240 captured on screen. Or like Apocalypse Now. I 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:34.600 think that's later in the 70s though, right? 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:37.139 That might be one of the last movies that kind 00:12:37.139 --> 00:12:40.600 of goes this hard on the method stuff where people 00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:42.779 are just on drugs all the time on set and stuff 00:12:42.779 --> 00:12:44.940 like that. Because John Borman would be doing 00:12:44.940 --> 00:12:47.039 a lot of drugs while he made this movie. And 00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:51.600 there was a very, very hedonistic vibe on the 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:54.279 set and a lot of people doing drugs. And they 00:12:54.279 --> 00:12:56.919 shot this movie in Ireland in this small town. 00:12:57.019 --> 00:12:59.179 And apparently the population of that town grew 00:12:59.179 --> 00:13:02.179 by like 15 % after this production left. Cause 00:13:02.179 --> 00:13:05.600 like people will be just fucking and like, like 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:07.379 taking a bunch of drugs and shit like that. Like 00:13:07.379 --> 00:13:09.179 all the extras and actors and all the people 00:13:09.179 --> 00:13:10.539 who are in this movie, cause there's tons of 00:13:10.539 --> 00:13:12.379 people in there, you know, like it has huge, 00:13:12.419 --> 00:13:15.279 like huge crowds and whatever. That's, that's 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:17.879 the thing is like, like thinking about like, 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:19.460 like I was, it's like, it's just reiterating 00:13:19.460 --> 00:13:21.879 what I just said, but the, the craft of this 00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:25.820 movie is so like the, the, the budget is so huge 00:13:25.820 --> 00:13:29.539 and you can tell, but like, It feels like, you 00:13:29.539 --> 00:13:31.559 know, the battle for the Planet of the Apes. 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:33.320 You know what I mean? Where like, it's just like 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:35.200 this group of guys coming up and then pretending 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:37.440 it's a huge battle by like cutting into this 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:39.279 like group of six and then cutting to another 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:41.220 group of six. You know, it's the same six actors, 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:42.899 but they're just pretending it's a lot of them. 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:45.620 This is like almost the same excitement of that 00:13:45.620 --> 00:13:47.460 battle scene. But then when you actually cut 00:13:47.460 --> 00:13:48.600 to the wide, it's like, oh shit, they got like 00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:51.639 hundreds of people to do this. I just like, it's 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:54.000 the actual. Well, the first scene, there's like 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:57.379 so many like Zed's people. Sean Connery is like 00:13:57.379 --> 00:13:59.500 people. There's tons of them on those hillsides. 00:13:59.500 --> 00:14:01.399 Same with the guns. They're riding horses and 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:03.899 shit. And then you go into the head and there's 00:14:03.899 --> 00:14:06.080 all these people wrapped in saran wrap and there's 00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:07.779 all these people hanging in this tabernacle. 00:14:08.179 --> 00:14:10.620 It actually is a huge group. You're in a big 00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:13.019 society with all these people living in it and 00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:16.580 all these different factions of people. They 00:14:16.580 --> 00:14:19.659 show you all these different casts of society 00:14:19.659 --> 00:14:22.759 essentially in this new world where people are 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:25.500 immortal. Or at least the elite is immortal. 00:14:26.220 --> 00:14:29.139 something like elysium shit yeah well the people 00:14:29.139 --> 00:14:33.019 who live in the in the dome are immortal in the 00:14:33.019 --> 00:14:35.899 the void what do they call it in the vortex in 00:14:35.899 --> 00:14:39.179 the vortex in the vortex in the vortex which 00:14:39.179 --> 00:14:42.799 is yeah yeah i mean that george aworski connection 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:45.600 though going back to that is just like uh you 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:49.720 know he was like doing acid on set and like exploiting 00:14:50.460 --> 00:14:53.779 his actors and kind of like killing animals and 00:14:53.779 --> 00:14:55.519 whatever like just doing all this kind of crazy 00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:57.379 shit i mean we hear him talking about it he's 00:14:57.379 --> 00:14:59.159 like yeah these people thought i was a god i 00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:01.720 like i made them lie there all day and they were 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:03.700 some of them were getting heat stroke but they 00:15:03.700 --> 00:15:05.320 didn't say anything because they thought i was 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:07.399 a god because i was making the movie and that's 00:15:07.399 --> 00:15:11.139 what a god does in mexico in 1970 you know it's 00:15:11.139 --> 00:15:15.559 like it's very uh yeah he's he's but but a big 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:17.879 part of it is the exploitation and like the the 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:21.429 sort of things you can get out of you know i 00:15:21.429 --> 00:15:24.889 like i think a lot of that is just like a a new 00:15:24.889 --> 00:15:27.789 hollywood thing like that era of like when you 00:15:27.789 --> 00:15:30.429 could just like have a heaven's gate or something 00:15:30.429 --> 00:15:32.629 where like they would put so much money into 00:15:32.629 --> 00:15:34.389 this and then the people who were in charge of 00:15:34.389 --> 00:15:37.669 the money were just like completely like on so 00:15:37.669 --> 00:15:40.049 much cocaine that they didn't give a fuck about 00:15:40.049 --> 00:15:42.750 like giving themselves 10 million dollars to 00:15:42.750 --> 00:15:45.110 rent like i mean heaven's gate he's like renting 00:15:45.110 --> 00:15:48.259 sets from himself for ridiculous amounts of money. 00:15:48.379 --> 00:15:51.580 He was scamming people, actually, at a certain 00:15:51.580 --> 00:15:55.100 level. But it's almost a scam to make this movie, 00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:58.080 too. I don't think Borman was scamming just to 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:00.259 try and get rich off of this, but he was tricking 00:16:00.259 --> 00:16:02.000 people into doing something that's just like, 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:07.039 this is just your acid fantasy. It's amazing 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:11.360 that you could actually get the amount of, first 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:16.480 of all, money, but also committed people to show 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:18.799 up on set and get naked and do these things. 00:16:20.179 --> 00:16:21.899 It's just a film industry that doesn't exist 00:16:21.899 --> 00:16:26.240 anymore. The idea of that set being able to finish 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:31.340 the film without some sort of controversy about 00:16:31.340 --> 00:16:34.519 what it's doing. Yeah, exactly. And some of that's 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:37.120 good. I don't think on Heaven's Gate they killed 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:40.960 horses. It's not like these guys are all great 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:43.019 people. That time of film is over and they made 00:16:43.019 --> 00:16:45.399 great movies during that time. And sometimes 00:16:45.399 --> 00:16:47.580 it feels like a Mayan sacrifice where actually 00:16:47.580 --> 00:16:50.039 something comes out of that that's magical. A 00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:51.639 lot of people can accept that as being one of 00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:54.440 the greatest periods in film history. And of 00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:57.360 course you can make specific arguments that Heaven's 00:16:57.360 --> 00:16:59.529 Gate wasn't worth it. or something you know that 00:16:59.529 --> 00:17:02.710 like it wasn't worth killing horses or exploiting 00:17:02.710 --> 00:17:04.549 the studio and bankrupting and doing all this 00:17:04.549 --> 00:17:06.549 kind of shit like it's like having kids in movies 00:17:06.549 --> 00:17:08.869 too it's like a really fine line or how you keep 00:17:08.869 --> 00:17:11.849 that really respectful and not traumatic or damaging 00:17:11.849 --> 00:17:14.150 so many kids get fucked up working on movies 00:17:14.150 --> 00:17:17.930 right but at the same time like fucking up kids 00:17:17.930 --> 00:17:21.289 on movies made a bunch of great movies it feels 00:17:21.289 --> 00:17:23.349 like a blood sacrifice for the culture yeah it 00:17:23.349 --> 00:17:25.789 does and like whether you think that's good or 00:17:25.789 --> 00:17:27.809 not doesn't really change the fact that like 00:17:27.809 --> 00:17:30.170 don't get milo and otis without throwing a hundred 00:17:30.170 --> 00:17:33.589 cats off of a cliff yeah of course but you also 00:17:33.589 --> 00:17:35.430 don't get the golden gate bridge without killing 00:17:35.430 --> 00:17:37.569 tons of workers exactly you know like there's 00:17:37.569 --> 00:17:39.930 like it feels like very capitalistic american 00:17:39.930 --> 00:17:44.369 movies are very capitalist american thing yeah 00:17:44.750 --> 00:17:46.329 I mean, the movies have been made that don't 00:17:46.329 --> 00:17:48.190 kill people, obviously, and like plenty of these 00:17:48.190 --> 00:17:51.089 things, but these kind of like giant absurd. 00:17:51.829 --> 00:17:53.509 When you think about the amount of money that's 00:17:53.509 --> 00:17:55.869 put into these things, like somebody dying on 00:17:55.869 --> 00:17:59.009 them is not like absurd compared to like, you 00:17:59.009 --> 00:18:00.210 know what I mean? Like how much does it cost 00:18:00.210 --> 00:18:02.470 to take out a hit on somebody? You know what 00:18:02.470 --> 00:18:04.809 I mean? Versus how much money goes into these 00:18:04.809 --> 00:18:06.670 movies and is on the line and whatever. Like, 00:18:06.670 --> 00:18:10.269 I just, I think that when you take into account 00:18:10.269 --> 00:18:15.140 the amount of. effort behind these things like 00:18:15.140 --> 00:18:17.359 it's not crazy for joe daworski to say like these 00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:19.920 people thought i was a god and like yeah they 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:23.039 lied in the sun all day in black clothes because 00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:26.039 they were afraid whatever like and that allowed 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:29.359 me to create this they got heat stroke and i 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:32.240 may have sort of raped a woman on camera or whatever 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:34.380 and just like things like that you know just 00:18:34.380 --> 00:18:36.779 like right i mean yeah and his commentary yeah 00:18:36.779 --> 00:18:39.980 he claims all sorts of things Like, that the 00:18:39.980 --> 00:18:43.779 girl was on 50 hits of acid and that he was raping. 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:49.240 But out of that comes crazy shit, man. Like, 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:51.640 we don't have shit like that, that, like, actually, 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:54.200 I don't know, that watching makes you feel like 00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:56.759 you're watching a sacrifice. Yeah, it's hard 00:18:56.759 --> 00:18:59.819 to argue with the result, even though it is kind 00:18:59.819 --> 00:19:02.519 of hard to argue to defend the means or whatever. 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:04.940 It's impossible to defend the means, yeah. Well, 00:19:04.940 --> 00:19:06.940 that's the point, is that, like, we can be sad 00:19:06.940 --> 00:19:09.680 about this horse trainer. who had to kill his 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:13.700 horse, but he, like, willingly bred these horses 00:19:13.700 --> 00:19:16.220 to be used in movies and possibly get hurt and 00:19:16.220 --> 00:19:19.220 killed. And every person who, like, breeds horses 00:19:19.220 --> 00:19:22.799 for any reason at all, like, they're operating 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:25.119 under some risk assessment that, like, at some 00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:27.960 point their horse could break a limb and be useless, 00:19:28.140 --> 00:19:32.279 basically. It's true of children, too. yeah parents 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:34.240 who let their children be in movies and let them 00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:36.519 be exploited or let them cross the street on 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:38.640 their own like you know it's any anything like 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:41.720 yeah it's you're taking a risk and everything's 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:45.259 a risk and you're doing it for reasons that might 00:19:45.259 --> 00:19:47.700 not be so noble to make some money and whatever 00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:50.680 and like i think if you're breeding horses to 00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:53.839 make money off them like you know what i mean 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:56.140 you can't really feel bad for this person when 00:19:56.140 --> 00:19:59.440 their horse like dies or becomes lame or whatever 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:02.250 it's kind of like maybe i think i think like 00:20:02.250 --> 00:20:03.970 i just think i don't know sometimes it's a thing 00:20:03.970 --> 00:20:05.930 i'm just i'm just making devil's advocate at 00:20:05.930 --> 00:20:08.309 this point it is sad yeah it's sad i think it's 00:20:08.309 --> 00:20:10.089 also like they don't always hired for and then 00:20:10.089 --> 00:20:11.890 it's like and then it starts getting worse and 00:20:11.890 --> 00:20:13.829 worse and then like continuing to go because 00:20:13.829 --> 00:20:15.730 like no i paid you and here's more i took a risk 00:20:15.730 --> 00:20:17.750 i took a risk assessment but you're just like 00:20:17.750 --> 00:20:19.809 having to kill your dog we don't know any of 00:20:19.809 --> 00:20:21.349 these people maybe they're a little heartless 00:20:21.349 --> 00:20:22.869 i know maybe they were maybe they killed many 00:20:22.869 --> 00:20:25.509 a horse and something you gotta do and but i 00:20:25.509 --> 00:20:28.269 don't know it's it's hard to believe yeah Horse 00:20:28.269 --> 00:20:30.410 people get very connected to their horses. Right, 00:20:30.410 --> 00:20:33.710 right. They do. But, I mean, I don't know. But 00:20:33.710 --> 00:20:36.029 at least in Zardoz, he's not killing horses. 00:20:36.170 --> 00:20:38.589 Yeah, yeah. To bring it back to that. It's just 00:20:38.589 --> 00:20:42.849 naked people. But I feel like when you think 00:20:42.849 --> 00:20:46.569 about John Borman, he did Deliverance in 1972. 00:20:47.650 --> 00:20:49.910 Zardoz is his follow -up to Deliverance. Yeah, 00:20:49.910 --> 00:20:51.390 yeah, yeah. His most successful movie. I mean, 00:20:51.390 --> 00:20:54.009 he had Carte Blanche. He had Carte Blanche. And 00:20:54.009 --> 00:20:55.990 the Holy Mountain came out between them in 73. 00:20:57.589 --> 00:21:00.269 Even though John Borman seems like a pretty psychedelic 00:21:00.269 --> 00:21:02.130 filmmaker, I haven't seen many of his movies, 00:21:02.170 --> 00:21:05.029 but Deliverance, when you compare Deliverance 00:21:05.029 --> 00:21:09.609 to Zardoz, it makes the psychedelic aspects of 00:21:09.609 --> 00:21:11.430 Deliverance stand out a little bit more to me 00:21:11.430 --> 00:21:14.589 as being very intentional instead of just weird. 00:21:15.420 --> 00:21:19.019 I think Deliverance is a very psychedelic movie 00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:21.940 for me. I think that so much of Deliverance is 00:21:21.940 --> 00:21:26.960 the idea of what you don't see or whatever. Every 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:31.319 moment of violence in that movie feels so much 00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:33.519 bigger than what it actually is because it's 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:39.250 so fast and then your memory of it grows. It's 00:21:39.250 --> 00:21:41.390 like a way of. Your brain's like not sure what 00:21:41.390 --> 00:21:43.410 it saw. Yeah. So it keeps filling in information. 00:21:43.670 --> 00:21:47.690 Exactly. Like, yeah. And that concept is so psychedelic. 00:21:47.690 --> 00:21:49.950 And I've never seen it captured in a movie other 00:21:49.950 --> 00:21:51.650 than Deliverance. Like Deliverance nails that 00:21:51.650 --> 00:21:55.289 thing in a way that is so like, it's a subtle 00:21:55.289 --> 00:21:58.269 thing. Like it's a very, it's a delicate thing 00:21:58.269 --> 00:22:02.609 that he pulls off. And it's like you have to, 00:22:02.650 --> 00:22:05.990 the craft is there to do something like so subtle 00:22:05.990 --> 00:22:07.630 and whatever. But it's also like you have to 00:22:07.630 --> 00:22:11.890 have like a. very big very abstract idea to make 00:22:11.890 --> 00:22:15.390 the central idea of the thing you know and like 00:22:15.390 --> 00:22:16.990 deliverance is also talking about vietnam and 00:22:16.990 --> 00:22:18.369 like there's lots of things that it's talking 00:22:18.369 --> 00:22:21.410 about but vietnam and trauma it's for sure I 00:22:21.410 --> 00:22:23.450 don't know the way that things happen in that 00:22:23.450 --> 00:22:26.410 movie is the, the real feature for me. And it's 00:22:26.410 --> 00:22:28.190 like, it's like, you know, being in a war zone 00:22:28.190 --> 00:22:30.089 and then seeing something happen. And then like 00:22:30.089 --> 00:22:33.349 that thing becoming the trauma that then grows 00:22:33.349 --> 00:22:35.410 and becomes like, and form is meeting function 00:22:35.410 --> 00:22:37.589 because it also wants to traumatize the audience. 00:22:37.670 --> 00:22:40.329 Exactly. I like showing you things that like 00:22:40.329 --> 00:22:42.369 confuse you and like gross you out, but you're 00:22:42.369 --> 00:22:44.210 not even sure what you saw. And like, you're 00:22:44.210 --> 00:22:46.130 not sure if you dreamed it or if it was real. 00:22:46.190 --> 00:22:48.579 Yeah. that kind of shit. And with deliverance, 00:22:48.579 --> 00:22:50.720 like when I went back and like rewatched the 00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:52.160 scenes of the violence or whatever, I'm like, 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:55.519 Oh, I didn't even like, I remembered it by the 00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:56.900 end of it. Like I just watched, like I watched 00:22:56.900 --> 00:22:58.680 the whole movie and then I just rewound and watch 00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:00.380 this two minutes. And I'm like, yeah, no, that 00:23:00.380 --> 00:23:02.940 wasn't nearly as explicit as I remembered. Like, 00:23:02.940 --> 00:23:05.079 like 20 minutes later, like, you know what I 00:23:05.079 --> 00:23:08.380 mean? It's just that it grew because of the anxiety 00:23:08.380 --> 00:23:10.859 that was built up around it. And the continuing 00:23:10.859 --> 00:23:13.579 referencing back to like, it's, there's something 00:23:13.579 --> 00:23:15.400 really amazing and psychedelic about that. And 00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:18.480 I think that, He's a really, I mean, that comes 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:21.299 from a guy who's doing drugs, I think. That already 00:23:21.299 --> 00:23:24.440 does. And Zardoz, I think, comes from a guy who 00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:29.519 is completely in the depths of way too much acid, 00:23:29.539 --> 00:23:32.960 specifically. I'm sure there was cocaine and 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:34.799 whatnot on set and all sorts of drugs happening, 00:23:34.940 --> 00:23:39.190 but Zardoz is an acid thing. a hundred percent 00:23:39.190 --> 00:23:42.150 for me. Like that's, that's why there's the goofy 00:23:42.150 --> 00:23:44.430 thing going on. That's why the, in the beginning, 00:23:44.529 --> 00:23:47.549 there's the talk, there's the, he's the jester 00:23:47.549 --> 00:23:49.869 kind of voice. It was like, Oh, I'm going to 00:23:49.869 --> 00:23:52.710 do this and blah, blah, blah. It's all very goofy, 00:23:52.829 --> 00:23:56.670 psychedelic, but also like directly telling you 00:23:56.670 --> 00:23:59.289 what everything is and that at all. Like, I don't 00:23:59.289 --> 00:24:01.410 know. It's like connecting the meta to the real, 00:24:01.529 --> 00:24:03.650 I don't know. Well, apparently the first scene 00:24:03.650 --> 00:24:07.210 was actually, um, Apparently the first scene 00:24:07.210 --> 00:24:10.789 was demanded by the producers because the movie 00:24:10.789 --> 00:24:15.809 didn't make sense. So it's like if that wasn't 00:24:15.809 --> 00:24:18.589 intended, maybe it was like if John Borman actually 00:24:18.589 --> 00:24:22.569 just wanted to make a much more confusing movie, 00:24:22.769 --> 00:24:26.450 then actually the producers kind of made a strangely 00:24:26.450 --> 00:24:31.390 good suggestion. At the same time, I don't think 00:24:31.390 --> 00:24:35.750 the opening really... explains them like it tells 00:24:35.750 --> 00:24:37.430 you everything or whatever but it doesn't really 00:24:37.430 --> 00:24:39.789 explain that much it just sort of gives you like 00:24:39.789 --> 00:24:42.250 a little bit of a tonal it contextualizes the 00:24:42.250 --> 00:24:44.849 plot a little bit and like I mean when I first 00:24:44.849 --> 00:24:48.490 saw it a lot of what the head is saying doesn't 00:24:48.490 --> 00:24:51.789 make sense to me until later because like he 00:24:51.789 --> 00:24:54.250 says like I'm immortal and yada yada yada and 00:24:54.250 --> 00:24:55.789 it's like you're not thinking you don't know 00:24:55.789 --> 00:24:58.309 that there's like actually a cast of characters 00:24:58.309 --> 00:25:00.289 who are immortal and he says he's two names he 00:25:00.289 --> 00:25:03.059 says he's Zardoz and arthur frayne and you're 00:25:03.059 --> 00:25:04.859 like what does that mean right and it's like 00:25:04.859 --> 00:25:06.319 then zardoz shows up in the beginning he's like 00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:07.940 well then what is zardoz and then it's like you 00:25:07.940 --> 00:25:11.440 eventually realize like oh he is a human but 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:13.579 he's an immortal human and zardoz is just like 00:25:13.579 --> 00:25:17.660 this fake god he play acts as to control this 00:25:17.660 --> 00:25:21.299 like population of primitive humans or whatever 00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:25.019 really for no reason except to just like You 00:25:25.019 --> 00:25:27.819 know, eventually he starts making them grow grain 00:25:27.819 --> 00:25:30.799 to feed their like apathetic population. But 00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:33.680 the point is, is that what we do in the fucking 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:36.539 Middle East? No, sure. So the point is, is that 00:25:36.539 --> 00:25:39.240 like Zardoz actually seems like a very confusing 00:25:39.240 --> 00:25:41.599 movie filled with like really, really random 00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:43.680 weird choices. But like it actually does kind 00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:46.380 of just have a reality that's consistent and 00:25:46.380 --> 00:25:48.720 it explains itself and doesn't contradict that 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:52.549 reality. The plot, like, even though it gets 00:25:52.549 --> 00:25:54.930 muddy in some places and ends up very interpretive 00:25:54.930 --> 00:25:58.289 by the end, like, it's, you can follow it. Like, 00:25:58.329 --> 00:26:00.430 it makes sense kind of what's going on in the 00:26:00.430 --> 00:26:03.109 movie. It's just all, the way it's presented 00:26:03.109 --> 00:26:05.369 is all so heightened and so surreal. I think 00:26:05.369 --> 00:26:06.970 it's also just, like, it's turning everything 00:26:06.970 --> 00:26:09.130 on its head all the time, where it's just kind 00:26:09.130 --> 00:26:11.150 of, like, this is what a normal movie would do, 00:26:11.210 --> 00:26:13.829 so let's do the opposite or something. Like, 00:26:13.829 --> 00:26:15.829 it's always, like, subverting an expectation 00:26:15.829 --> 00:26:19.869 of what a type, and, like, that's why it's so... 00:26:20.329 --> 00:26:24.930 like campy but like it's campy with an incredible 00:26:24.930 --> 00:26:27.730 amount of craft that like it's like you you can 00:26:27.730 --> 00:26:30.769 you can show like this is a performance that 00:26:30.769 --> 00:26:33.029 feels like it's a bad actor that like doesn't 00:26:33.029 --> 00:26:35.390 know how to act or something so like it's a it 00:26:35.390 --> 00:26:37.529 feels but it's like no no that's not why they're 00:26:37.529 --> 00:26:40.329 acting that way like it's it's they're acting 00:26:40.329 --> 00:26:42.609 that way because it's a part of the tone that 00:26:42.609 --> 00:26:44.690 he's created and he's doing and it's the same 00:26:44.690 --> 00:26:46.490 with the sets it's like well this could just 00:26:46.490 --> 00:26:49.750 be a shitty set That's like a cheap, easy set. 00:26:49.809 --> 00:26:51.069 But then it's like, no, no, look at all the detail 00:26:51.069 --> 00:26:53.289 that you put into it. Like you're choosing to 00:26:53.289 --> 00:26:55.730 make this campy. Like it's in every single moment 00:26:55.730 --> 00:26:59.210 you can like see the like. The choices are very 00:26:59.210 --> 00:27:03.109 intentional. Yeah. And it's not a mistake that 00:27:03.109 --> 00:27:06.109 it's campy. And it's constantly showing you like 00:27:06.109 --> 00:27:08.690 this is a cheesy scene where this is happening. 00:27:08.890 --> 00:27:12.309 But look at how cinematic this aspect of it is 00:27:12.309 --> 00:27:15.029 pulled off or something. If we go with authorial 00:27:15.029 --> 00:27:18.519 intent. 100 % John Borman did openly say that 00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:21.220 a lot of this movie doesn't make sense. And there 00:27:21.220 --> 00:27:23.559 are many scenes that are pointless. Like he was 00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:25.500 on a lot of drugs. He did make a lot of decisions, 00:27:25.579 --> 00:27:28.180 but he might just, he might not realize that 00:27:28.180 --> 00:27:30.900 like. he actually was working at some level where 00:27:30.900 --> 00:27:32.799 like everything in this movie is actually speaking 00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:34.140 to something. That's exactly what I'm saying. 00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:36.099 Like I'm kind of not interested in what sober 00:27:36.099 --> 00:27:38.059 John Borman has to say about this movie. I would 00:27:38.059 --> 00:27:41.019 love to talk to John Borman on four hits of acid 00:27:41.019 --> 00:27:43.119 about this movie. Like I would love to hear what 00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:44.960 that guy has to say about it because I think 00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:47.839 he had it figured out. I think that guy, and 00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:50.140 that's like, that's the thing is like, I feel 00:27:50.140 --> 00:27:52.690 like. This movie in some ways can feel like a 00:27:52.690 --> 00:27:54.970 hell comes to frog town or something like genre 00:27:54.970 --> 00:27:58.250 movie, like futuristic thing with like weird. 00:27:58.289 --> 00:28:01.329 That's just kind of fun. Throw away like exploitation 00:28:01.329 --> 00:28:04.890 thing. But the fact of that craft being in there 00:28:04.890 --> 00:28:07.670 all the time, visually and whatever, like it 00:28:07.670 --> 00:28:09.809 clues you into this thing of like, it is not 00:28:09.809 --> 00:28:12.690 just that cheesy, goofy fuck off thing. Like 00:28:12.690 --> 00:28:14.750 this is a movie that somebody is putting a huge 00:28:14.750 --> 00:28:19.559 amount of like detail and effort into to. come 00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:22.400 up with this product and this is like completely 00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:25.359 intentional and it's because it's somebody who's 00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:27.359 trying to say everything it's not somebody who's 00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:29.440 trying to like have a fun time and confuse you 00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:33.000 like he is trying very hard to make a very clear 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:36.339 statement about absolutely everything that like 00:28:36.339 --> 00:28:38.319 is exactly like where he's like i got it all 00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:39.480 figured out i'm just gonna explain it to you 00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:41.589 right now and it's like that's You can't explain 00:28:41.589 --> 00:28:43.710 it. You're tripping. That's all. You're almost 00:28:43.710 --> 00:28:45.210 there. You're like, no, no, I got it. And it's 00:28:45.210 --> 00:28:46.569 like, no, you don't have it. You've seen the 00:28:46.569 --> 00:28:49.109 future. Yeah. You don't realize you have, but 00:28:49.109 --> 00:28:50.690 you're putting it out there. You're telegraphing 00:28:50.690 --> 00:28:52.990 it. Because, yeah, let's get into what some of 00:28:52.990 --> 00:28:54.769 this movie is actually talking about or doing. 00:28:55.089 --> 00:28:57.910 This is very clearly a movie that sets up a world 00:28:57.910 --> 00:29:00.130 that is actually just very similar to the one 00:29:00.130 --> 00:29:03.470 we live in. Yeah. Right? It's just a sci -fi 00:29:03.470 --> 00:29:04.829 or a modern society. It's just like any other 00:29:04.829 --> 00:29:09.410 sci -fi movie where you present something that 00:29:09.410 --> 00:29:12.660 is aesthetically otherworldly or whatever but 00:29:12.660 --> 00:29:14.400 really it's just talking about the world you 00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:17.000 live in like it's talking about class and class 00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:20.000 disparity and elites and the boredom of those 00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:22.680 elites and how they make the proletariat their 00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:25.660 playthings. They become apathetic. They become 00:29:25.660 --> 00:29:27.980 apathetic. They don't have any interest in breeding 00:29:27.980 --> 00:29:29.240 or reproduction. Or they rebel against their 00:29:29.240 --> 00:29:31.000 own elite class or whatever, and they don't have 00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:32.740 any interest in reproduction, and they're all 00:29:32.740 --> 00:29:35.700 gender neutral, basically. I don't know that 00:29:35.700 --> 00:29:38.500 they're totally gender neutral. They're more 00:29:38.500 --> 00:29:40.420 androgynous, and they all wear the same type 00:29:40.420 --> 00:29:43.240 of clothing. I think the men aren't. Well, there 00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:46.460 is more of a hive mind thing going on, and they 00:29:46.460 --> 00:29:50.349 are all just kind of like... I think the point 00:29:50.349 --> 00:29:51.569 I'm trying to make is I think it's more feminine. 00:29:51.769 --> 00:29:55.450 I don't think it's so much a loss of masculine 00:29:55.450 --> 00:29:57.289 and feminine. I think that their society is feminine. 00:29:59.009 --> 00:30:01.990 Feminine based on our definition of femininity. 00:30:02.269 --> 00:30:05.970 I think in their society, there is no masculine 00:30:05.970 --> 00:30:09.210 and feminine anymore, basically. Once you don't 00:30:09.210 --> 00:30:12.029 have sex and procreation and everyone's thinking 00:30:12.029 --> 00:30:15.349 the same and wearing the same clothes, then there 00:30:15.349 --> 00:30:19.140 is no gender dynamic. But that's because they've 00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:22.579 exported masculinity. I guess you're right, though. 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:24.180 I mean, you have to look at it in the context 00:30:24.180 --> 00:30:26.380 of our world and our definitions of these things. 00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:29.200 That society is incredibly feminine. And based 00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:30.880 on the power of the mind and stuff like that. 00:30:31.059 --> 00:30:36.279 All the masculine energy is out there. Outside 00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:39.200 of the bubble. Outside of the bubble. And they 00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:42.380 live in a feminized liberal bubble in which everything's 00:30:42.380 --> 00:30:45.740 handled through democracy. And basically just 00:30:45.740 --> 00:30:49.720 conversations among the women about what's happening 00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:51.940 with this person and how they actually feel and 00:30:51.940 --> 00:30:55.640 judging these people. This is not handled through 00:30:55.640 --> 00:31:01.819 force or power. It's handled through the hens 00:31:01.819 --> 00:31:03.940 chatting about the thing and then pecking the 00:31:03.940 --> 00:31:06.859 guy to death for speaking out. There is an element 00:31:06.859 --> 00:31:09.359 of force. There is an element of force, which 00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:11.099 you could argue is a topping from the bottom 00:31:11.099 --> 00:31:14.750 thing. But I would say... the moment where friend 00:31:14.750 --> 00:31:17.789 gets destroyed is like absolutely forced. Like 00:31:17.789 --> 00:31:19.990 they all gang up on him and they like rape him 00:31:19.990 --> 00:31:23.890 mentally. And like, yeah, but it's, it's a, it's 00:31:23.890 --> 00:31:28.809 a, it's a Louis CK. It's a, it's a feminine attack 00:31:28.809 --> 00:31:32.599 with no violence. Just like. We're all psychically 00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:34.720 speaking to each other about how bad you are 00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:37.839 and shunning you and destroying you. Saying you're 00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:40.480 a renegade and you're canceled. You're canceled, 00:31:40.579 --> 00:31:42.380 canceling, canceling, renegade, renegade. You're 00:31:42.380 --> 00:31:45.000 going to grow older. Yeah, because watching the 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:47.220 second time during all these parts and seeing 00:31:47.220 --> 00:31:50.099 what this society is, I was like, actually, it's 00:31:50.099 --> 00:31:54.319 pretty prescient. it feels like it's actually 00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:57.039 more like our society now than the society of 00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:59.019 the early seventies. Yeah. Well, he was seeing 00:31:59.019 --> 00:32:02.279 ahead. Yeah. Yeah. It feels really like this 00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:04.039 is where this goes. This is where this ultra 00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:07.299 liberalism goes. And this is where like, this 00:32:07.299 --> 00:32:08.900 is what happens if you have these things completely 00:32:08.900 --> 00:32:12.799 polarized. Got an anti -natalist feminized bubble 00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:15.519 society. And then you've got rape and murder 00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:22.099 and guns and penises. Like, you know, and. I 00:32:22.099 --> 00:32:26.279 think it's brilliant because it works in that 00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:28.039 masculine -feminine way, but it also works in 00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:30.440 the sociopolitical way of just how America deals 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:32.960 with third -world countries and whatnot. But 00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:35.039 I love the idea of America being the woman and 00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:36.799 third -world countries being the man and stuff. 00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:42.619 Well, the man represents just the primitive, 00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:46.599 archaic, brutal ways of our past. Isn't that 00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:49.119 what the man represents, though? In real life? 00:32:49.779 --> 00:32:53.880 In some ways, yeah. I guess so. I mean, we can 00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:55.539 get into a conversation about gender dynamics, 00:32:56.279 --> 00:32:59.339 I guess, but I believe there's a lot of fluid 00:32:59.339 --> 00:33:01.559 fluidity to gender for sure. I think there's 00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:03.440 truth to that. But like, I also think there are 00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:07.359 men and women and there is sex and there's behavior 00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:10.960 and like behaviors aren't all defined by our 00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:13.539 biology and our genetics. They're defined by 00:33:13.539 --> 00:33:16.539 society as well. And yeah, I mean, you can make 00:33:16.539 --> 00:33:19.039 an argument that like. Part of what they're actually 00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:21.480 doing in this movie is indoctrinating him and 00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:23.220 assimilating him to their culture. That's a huge, 00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:24.880 that's a huge part of the movie. Yeah. Yeah. 00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:28.259 Um, that's a whole part of the ending. Sean Connery 00:33:28.259 --> 00:33:30.339 is being like emasculated the whole movie. Yeah. 00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:32.339 And stuff like that. He's being emasculated and 00:33:32.339 --> 00:33:35.680 subjugated and, and pasteurized and, you know, 00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:41.019 and seduced, um, by the society. But there's 00:33:41.019 --> 00:33:43.880 the, there's the, it's the, you know, the Alexander's 00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:47.240 soldiers. They say it in the movie. Um, but. 00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:50.319 When Alexander's soldiers went and conquered 00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:52.900 the Middle East, they all came back with Middle 00:33:52.900 --> 00:33:55.920 Eastern wives. It's like when you conquer a place, 00:33:56.000 --> 00:34:00.319 you become that too. The culture seeps into you. 00:34:00.460 --> 00:34:03.180 And by the end, when his people come in and destroy 00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:04.740 it, they're all calling for him and he's run 00:34:04.740 --> 00:34:08.239 off with the woman. He's not living the masculine. 00:34:09.190 --> 00:34:12.349 sort of life of just rape and murder and whatever 00:34:12.349 --> 00:34:15.190 he's now been seduced somewhat by this feminized 00:34:15.190 --> 00:34:18.150 you know way of life that's she she changes him 00:34:18.150 --> 00:34:21.329 but he changes her too She does. Because that's, 00:34:21.329 --> 00:34:23.030 I mean, and that's really the thing. Like the 00:34:23.030 --> 00:34:25.130 movie is very much about just like two genders 00:34:25.130 --> 00:34:26.989 coming together and starting a family. Like that's 00:34:26.989 --> 00:34:29.550 the end sequence of them just getting older and 00:34:29.550 --> 00:34:31.369 the kid and whatever. It's like, it's actually 00:34:31.369 --> 00:34:33.949 like, it's so cheesy. It's just so funny. It's 00:34:33.949 --> 00:34:37.650 just the gender war until you like do your God 00:34:37.650 --> 00:34:41.349 given duty to make a child grow old and die together. 00:34:41.630 --> 00:34:44.269 You know, it's kind of like, it's a very straightforward 00:34:44.269 --> 00:34:47.320 ending of just kind of like, yeah. then you know 00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:49.300 that's what you both wanted then it shows the 00:34:49.300 --> 00:34:51.280 cave painting with the gun which is just like 00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:53.960 such a great enigmatic last shot that reminds 00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:57.340 me of like Koyaanisqatsi and it's obviously like 00:34:57.340 --> 00:35:01.440 modeled after the first like cave paintings like 00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:03.119 the oldest cave paintings that were discovered 00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:06.699 or whatever the hands and whatever yeah the mark 00:35:06.699 --> 00:35:10.860 of the artist the mark of the artist all day 00:35:10.860 --> 00:35:14.969 7th plays The what? Well, Beethoven's seventh 00:35:14.969 --> 00:35:17.750 place. Yes. Yes. For the, for the 30th time. 00:35:17.829 --> 00:35:21.550 It's the best. That's, that's worth mentioning 00:35:21.550 --> 00:35:25.309 honorably. Just how much I love Beethoven's seventh. 00:35:25.510 --> 00:35:28.250 The best. And like, don't care how overused it 00:35:28.250 --> 00:35:31.489 is in movies. Yeah. Yeah. I was saying maybe 00:35:31.489 --> 00:35:33.170 my favorite is, I'm pretty sure it's the end 00:35:33.170 --> 00:35:36.150 of Bay of Angels, but it's, it's one of the Jacques 00:35:36.150 --> 00:35:38.460 Demy movies. But it's just like every time I 00:35:38.460 --> 00:35:40.079 hear that, I think of this thing with like people 00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:43.039 walking by each other and like everything coming 00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:44.719 together in this moment. Like, I don't know. 00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:47.159 Yeah. And it's great. And it's great in Love 00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:49.480 Exposure. Oh, yeah. Love Exposure during the 00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:52.760 Corinthian speech is maybe the best one. Maybe 00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:55.000 the best one. I mean, her Corinthian speech in 00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:57.260 that movie is the best Corinthian speech. Well, 00:35:57.260 --> 00:35:58.739 that's kind of like when I fell in love with 00:35:58.739 --> 00:36:00.900 Beethoven's Seventh is after watching Love Exposure. 00:36:01.019 --> 00:36:02.820 Yeah. I don't know why. That was the one that 00:36:02.820 --> 00:36:04.800 did it for me. But I was just like. Love Exposure's 00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:08.360 whole soundtrack is amazing. yeah it's also just 00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:10.559 like there's so many animes too like it's it's 00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:12.920 a lot of you know the lower budget things that 00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:15.159 can't afford their own soundtracks use beethoven 00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:18.000 seven it's like yeah well it's better than anything 00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:19.980 you would have done yeah exactly but if i ever 00:36:19.980 --> 00:36:22.039 made a movie i would probably use beethoven seventh 00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:25.820 at some point or at least if i had a movie career 00:36:25.820 --> 00:36:29.849 but i don't We're just trying to make a career 00:36:29.849 --> 00:36:31.710 out of talking about movies. You can play Beethoven 00:36:31.710 --> 00:36:34.289 7th over the episode if you want. Over the whole 00:36:34.289 --> 00:36:41.010 thing. That would actually be really great. Might 00:36:41.010 --> 00:36:43.889 just have to use that track for this episode. 00:36:44.030 --> 00:36:46.030 We can get away with that one. You can probably 00:36:46.030 --> 00:36:50.429 find a free one. But yeah, I mean, that was the 00:36:50.429 --> 00:36:53.150 whole movie. That's what the movie's saying, 00:36:53.230 --> 00:36:55.489 and it's all pretty clear, especially on second 00:36:55.489 --> 00:37:01.400 viewing. tying it to that time politically and 00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:03.539 like just all those movies at that time where 00:37:03.539 --> 00:37:05.739 i mean i think i think like when when we're thinking 00:37:05.739 --> 00:37:07.619 about the political aspects of that time whatever 00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:10.199 it reminds me a little bit of shampoo you know 00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:11.760 what i mean with it's true with its masculine 00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:14.460 feminine liberal conservative sort of divide 00:37:14.460 --> 00:37:18.340 what's interesting i think is in in zardoz the 00:37:18.340 --> 00:37:21.320 women really are neoconservatives kind of the 00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:26.719 the i mean at least fring is um arthur fring 00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:30.400 But what he's doing is he's creating a false 00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:34.639 God for the masses to like push them in a specific 00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:37.679 direction and like control. Like he's doing the 00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:39.699 first chapter from morals and dogma. He's doing 00:37:39.699 --> 00:37:41.920 that. You know, the masses must be guided like 00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:44.500 the, like the bullet in the gun. And otherwise 00:37:44.500 --> 00:37:48.719 it's just, he's creating a religion for them 00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:51.219 and whatever. It's like an ideology. It does 00:37:51.219 --> 00:37:54.179 speak about religion and the structure of religion 00:37:54.179 --> 00:37:56.360 in a really interesting way. Totally. Religion 00:37:56.360 --> 00:37:59.800 and all ideologies, though. Yeah, exactly. They 00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:02.219 have a religion, too, that revolves around their 00:38:02.219 --> 00:38:04.579 immortality in the tabernacle. Right. I mean, 00:38:04.579 --> 00:38:06.699 calling it the tabernacle, that's where the Ark 00:38:06.699 --> 00:38:10.920 of the Covenant was. Right. That's the connection 00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:14.659 between God and man. But yeah, the idea that 00:38:14.659 --> 00:38:18.000 they actually have this true religion, which 00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:21.690 is this eternal... like scientific thing you 00:38:21.690 --> 00:38:24.110 know yeah but the thing is they're also they're 00:38:24.110 --> 00:38:28.469 also um just a bunch of transhumanist like uh 00:38:28.469 --> 00:38:31.769 techno utopians no you're right they actually 00:38:31.769 --> 00:38:33.889 have an ai system that kind of like runs their 00:38:33.889 --> 00:38:36.610 society yeah they're all subjugated by the ai 00:38:36.610 --> 00:38:38.489 system they don't have authority over the computer 00:38:38.489 --> 00:38:41.710 the computer the you know yeah and this this 00:38:41.710 --> 00:38:44.349 is post 2001 so it kind of gets into our previous 00:38:44.349 --> 00:38:47.630 conversation about like just like the dehumanization 00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:52.099 that this society exists and in in the 2001 episode 00:38:52.099 --> 00:38:54.780 with right stuff we were we were talking about 00:38:54.780 --> 00:38:56.340 that i was talking about the feminization of 00:38:56.340 --> 00:38:58.019 society and whatnot you're like well i don't 00:38:58.019 --> 00:38:59.199 know that it's really a feminization right but 00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:00.960 this is kind of the idea that i'm talking about 00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:03.420 where we're talking about more of a pasteurization 00:39:03.420 --> 00:39:09.260 more of a domestication um to fit into a technolized 00:39:09.260 --> 00:39:11.400 society and stuff and i think that it's i think 00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:14.440 that zardoz is One of the brilliant things about 00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:17.119 it is tying that to feminism. I think that it 00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:20.099 does a really great job of connecting those ideas 00:39:20.099 --> 00:39:23.639 and showing kind of the inherent connection between 00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:27.579 them. That like what we're talking about with, 00:39:27.699 --> 00:39:30.199 I mean, basically like the gender dynamics, I 00:39:30.199 --> 00:39:33.139 think are very interesting. If you had a society 00:39:33.139 --> 00:39:37.920 that was an all male dominated society that actually 00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:42.059 was run by the patriarchy, what would that look 00:39:42.059 --> 00:39:44.730 like? I think it would look a lot like what happens 00:39:44.730 --> 00:39:48.969 outside of the dome, outside of the vortex. What 00:39:48.969 --> 00:39:51.869 it is, is it's power, and it's going out and 00:39:51.869 --> 00:39:54.230 riding horses and getting guns and raping women 00:39:54.230 --> 00:39:56.570 and taking what's yours and taking over towns. 00:39:57.230 --> 00:40:00.670 It's just violence and power. And then what is 00:40:00.670 --> 00:40:04.150 a purely feminine society? It is protection. 00:40:04.369 --> 00:40:10.530 It is safety, security, consensus. social the 00:40:10.530 --> 00:40:15.369 social aspect is the primary like path to justice 00:40:15.369 --> 00:40:20.750 and that the thing that is in control is a you 00:40:20.750 --> 00:40:24.570 know purely objective passionless machine that 00:40:24.570 --> 00:40:28.949 provides security and safety and and eternal 00:40:28.949 --> 00:40:31.730 safe like you know what i mean there's and and 00:40:31.730 --> 00:40:35.070 no death and no suffering right like it is the 00:40:35.070 --> 00:40:37.210 the room at the end of 2001 a space odyssey or 00:40:37.210 --> 00:40:39.110 whatever But I think that what that brings up 00:40:39.110 --> 00:40:41.590 is, like, which of those two societies are we 00:40:41.590 --> 00:40:44.409 closer to in our society? You know what I mean? 00:40:44.429 --> 00:40:47.769 Like, our society post, like, 60s, at least. 00:40:47.889 --> 00:40:50.880 And I would say post... industrial revolution 00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:55.860 post like agricultural revolution even is a far 00:40:55.860 --> 00:40:58.519 more feminine and it is continually getting far 00:40:58.519 --> 00:41:01.500 more feminized far more pasteurized far more 00:41:01.500 --> 00:41:05.760 domesticated in a way that that is created for 00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:09.280 women to feel more comfortable and safe and be 00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:11.719 able to feel safe with children and reproduction 00:41:11.719 --> 00:41:14.869 and these like i don't know and that's that power 00:41:14.869 --> 00:41:17.150 structure comes from that. And in our society, 00:41:17.150 --> 00:41:21.590 the real power structure is far more based on 00:41:21.590 --> 00:41:25.010 the consensus opinions and that sort of social 00:41:25.010 --> 00:41:27.630 aspect of things that it is like the strongest 00:41:27.630 --> 00:41:30.030 person is going to win. Yeah, might makes right. 00:41:30.329 --> 00:41:33.170 Yeah, might makes right is not a thing that works 00:41:33.170 --> 00:41:35.929 in society because if you go out and you kill 00:41:35.929 --> 00:41:39.449 someone, then you go to jail. Well, it doesn't 00:41:39.449 --> 00:41:44.920 work in a global capitalist society. Of course. 00:41:45.579 --> 00:41:49.179 Those laws are being tested right now. Global 00:41:49.179 --> 00:41:53.300 capitalism, I would say, is the vortex. That's 00:41:53.300 --> 00:41:57.179 what I'm saying. The vortex is all of that. I 00:41:57.179 --> 00:41:58.840 think that is what's missing in this movie. I 00:41:58.840 --> 00:42:03.019 think it's a post -capitalist world. There isn't 00:42:03.019 --> 00:42:06.179 money. They have all their needs met. They've 00:42:06.179 --> 00:42:09.159 come to the final. I think this is probably the 00:42:09.159 --> 00:42:12.780 only argument. against the movie i could make 00:42:12.780 --> 00:42:15.659 is that i think i've even talked to you about 00:42:15.659 --> 00:42:18.300 this before on this podcast but the idea that 00:42:18.300 --> 00:42:23.099 like most acts of conquest and violence and destruction 00:42:23.099 --> 00:42:27.699 were motivated by very practical things and not 00:42:27.699 --> 00:42:31.519 necessarily like your religion or your ideology 00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:34.059 right like the crusades weren't like weren't 00:42:34.059 --> 00:42:37.570 really The Crusades weren't really about an ideology, 00:42:38.010 --> 00:42:40.369 a religious ideology. That was just a smokescreen. 00:42:40.369 --> 00:42:44.090 That was just a cover story to explain something 00:42:44.090 --> 00:42:47.730 very dark and banal that the actual motive was 00:42:47.730 --> 00:42:49.989 that they can't deal with. This is the same with 00:42:49.989 --> 00:42:52.769 so many things, right? Like, what's his name? 00:42:52.789 --> 00:42:57.900 Luigi. who killed the CEO. Luigi Mangione. We 00:42:57.900 --> 00:43:03.280 all love the philosophical idea of this piece 00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:06.099 of shit whose whole life has been sucking money 00:43:06.099 --> 00:43:08.719 out of sick and dying people to feed his fat 00:43:08.719 --> 00:43:13.900 family. We love the idea of that ideology losing 00:43:13.900 --> 00:43:16.409 and this ideology winning or whatever. but really 00:43:16.409 --> 00:43:18.349 like Luigi Mangione was probably like, I think 00:43:18.349 --> 00:43:20.070 we found out now that he, like his dick didn't 00:43:20.070 --> 00:43:21.869 work or something. Like it's, there was like, 00:43:21.929 --> 00:43:24.670 he had his own weird psychological thing that 00:43:24.670 --> 00:43:26.489 like he had to go out and commit some act of 00:43:26.489 --> 00:43:29.289 violence. And it really, yes, it could be interpreted 00:43:29.289 --> 00:43:32.050 as this whole philosophical thing, but people 00:43:32.050 --> 00:43:34.090 don't act on a whole philosophical things. People 00:43:34.090 --> 00:43:36.309 act on like, I'm a weird, sick, twisted person 00:43:36.309 --> 00:43:38.630 for this reason. And I need to like satisfy that. 00:43:38.630 --> 00:43:43.269 He absolutely turned it like whether or not, 00:43:43.269 --> 00:43:45.829 you know, whether you believe Louie Mangione 00:43:45.829 --> 00:43:48.010 actually did it or not, like, and what his motives 00:43:48.010 --> 00:43:49.909 were, because like the trial hasn't happened 00:43:49.909 --> 00:43:53.250 yet. We don't know everything, but like. It was 00:43:53.250 --> 00:43:55.530 a very premeditated attack. He wrote stuff on 00:43:55.530 --> 00:43:58.989 the bullets. He left Monopoly money in the bag 00:43:58.989 --> 00:44:01.429 in Central Park. It felt methodical and almost 00:44:01.429 --> 00:44:04.250 Joker -like. Totally, totally. You don't plan 00:44:04.250 --> 00:44:06.369 something like that when you're a healthy person 00:44:06.369 --> 00:44:08.369 who has a philosophy to get across. No, no, sure. 00:44:08.969 --> 00:44:11.309 Obviously, everyone, that's why he's so popular 00:44:11.309 --> 00:44:13.070 and no one gives a shit that this guy died because 00:44:13.070 --> 00:44:15.610 everyone basically feels that way. Everybody 00:44:15.610 --> 00:44:17.710 feels that way, but nobody kills that guy except 00:44:17.710 --> 00:44:19.949 for him. Because you wouldn't just act on that 00:44:19.949 --> 00:44:21.949 unless you had everything else fucked up in your 00:44:21.949 --> 00:44:24.139 life. some bullshit like he had a he had like 00:44:24.139 --> 00:44:25.920 a broken back or something he had like a back 00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:28.579 problem that he had chronic pain or whatever 00:44:28.579 --> 00:44:32.059 and yeah it's like that can drive you absolutely 00:44:32.059 --> 00:44:34.679 mad right and up the wall and then you're just 00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:37.679 like the only thing my life is not worth living 00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:39.659 unless i could do something right that's like 00:44:39.659 --> 00:44:43.820 the most insane thing yeah and that's the crusades 00:44:43.820 --> 00:44:45.440 too is like i'm sure plenty of people were out 00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:47.519 there for god right but like really they're out 00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:49.099 there because it's like there's a bunch of middle 00:44:49.099 --> 00:44:51.780 eastern women that i can rape and like whatever 00:44:51.780 --> 00:44:53.480 it's like i'm doing this for god and whatever 00:44:53.480 --> 00:44:56.840 it's like You're murdering towns and raping people 00:44:56.840 --> 00:44:59.599 to death. Or like the reason for the slave trade 00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:01.260 and stuff. It has nothing to do with racism. 00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:04.460 It's because you need to produce lots of sugar 00:45:04.460 --> 00:45:07.159 for British people. Right. And so you have to 00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:09.380 create racism to legitimize the slave trade. 00:45:09.380 --> 00:45:11.000 Yeah, exactly. Because you can't just be like, 00:45:11.099 --> 00:45:14.159 well, it's just for money. I mean, that's right. 00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:17.059 Then there's no, like, there's no faith. There's 00:45:17.059 --> 00:45:18.860 no God. You used to be able to do that, right? 00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:21.480 You used to be able to do that in ancient Rome 00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:22.800 and be like, look, we conquered them. They're 00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.679 fucking our slaves. Fuck them. But in America, 00:45:25.960 --> 00:45:29.780 we had the idea of the freedom of the individual. 00:45:30.219 --> 00:45:35.539 And that doesn't align with the idea of enslaving 00:45:35.539 --> 00:45:39.199 an individual. So how do we... quell that cognitive 00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:41.599 dissonance how do we make that line up well we 00:45:41.599 --> 00:45:42.980 decide they're not people they're not people 00:45:42.980 --> 00:45:45.300 that's then we come up with this science that 00:45:45.300 --> 00:45:48.139 create the racist ideology right to like justify 00:45:48.139 --> 00:45:51.420 something that is contradictory to your your 00:45:51.420 --> 00:45:53.400 beliefs right so that you can do the thing that's 00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:55.739 contradictory to your beliefs yeah like that's 00:45:55.739 --> 00:45:58.800 why like you know the catholic church who believe 00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:01.500 in the teachings of jesus christ can like murder 00:46:01.500 --> 00:46:04.880 and rape and pillage like And whatever, just 00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:06.960 like, well, this isn't actually like, this is 00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:10.320 God's will. And like, this is actually a purge 00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:12.179 that will lead to more like, you know, whatever. 00:46:12.300 --> 00:46:13.760 They just like have all these rationalizations. 00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:17.219 Right. And that's always how like genocides, 00:46:17.219 --> 00:46:18.920 like that's like with Israel today and whatever, 00:46:19.099 --> 00:46:21.099 you know, whatever. If you don't want to call 00:46:21.099 --> 00:46:22.900 it a genocide, that's fine. And ethnic cleansing, 00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:26.059 but this like, this, there's a lot. If you don't 00:46:26.059 --> 00:46:28.460 want to call it a genocide, that's fine. A holocaust. 00:46:28.500 --> 00:46:31.349 A holocaust, yeah. An ethnic cleansing. I could 00:46:31.349 --> 00:46:34.690 use another word to say even a worse thing. There's 00:46:34.690 --> 00:46:39.070 a lot of ideological rationalizations for doing 00:46:39.070 --> 00:46:40.730 what they're doing. The Holocaust did not come 00:46:40.730 --> 00:46:44.670 out of phrenology. Yeah. Phrenology came out 00:46:44.670 --> 00:46:48.559 of the need. for a Holocaust. We need to justify 00:46:48.559 --> 00:46:51.159 the Holocaust. Oh, here it is. They've actually 00:46:51.159 --> 00:46:52.599 been doing this for hundreds of years for knowledge. 00:46:52.699 --> 00:46:54.820 It works. That's like someone's racist belief, 00:46:55.059 --> 00:46:59.179 like Hitler's or whatever, then he funnels funding 00:46:59.179 --> 00:47:04.380 into scientists who can verify his belief. Right. 00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:07.780 Which is what the transhumanists are doing now 00:47:07.780 --> 00:47:12.320 and stuff in America. Lots of these people funneling 00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:15.809 things to their weird belief systems. And then, 00:47:15.889 --> 00:47:18.070 I mean, I think what's the other getting back 00:47:18.070 --> 00:47:19.409 to the movie, I think what's really interesting 00:47:19.409 --> 00:47:23.730 in Zardoz is that all of this is undone to that, 00:47:23.789 --> 00:47:27.110 like that, that Zardoz is a false God, but that 00:47:27.110 --> 00:47:30.860 the guy. who created Zardoz is also like, he 00:47:30.860 --> 00:47:32.559 thinks he's in charge, but he's not even in charge. 00:47:32.619 --> 00:47:34.980 The last scene where, where Zed says to him, 00:47:35.019 --> 00:47:36.619 like, yeah, but I've seen the thing that gives 00:47:36.619 --> 00:47:39.559 you your orders and you are nothing like, you 00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:42.039 know, that's an awesome scene. Like, yeah, but 00:47:42.039 --> 00:47:44.079 also the thing that gives him his orders is just 00:47:44.079 --> 00:47:47.869 a fucking computer. And Zed has now been. seduced 00:47:47.869 --> 00:47:49.670 by that computer like you know what i mean he's 00:47:49.670 --> 00:47:52.030 he's now become a part of the evil that he has 00:47:52.030 --> 00:47:54.889 conquered too like and he now believes in the 00:47:54.889 --> 00:47:56.909 god that they believed in yeah which which like 00:47:56.909 --> 00:48:00.210 whether it's like ai or anything else like it's 00:48:00.210 --> 00:48:03.869 just a system it's a system of technology that 00:48:03.869 --> 00:48:06.889 controls our society even before computer technology 00:48:06.889 --> 00:48:09.789 and ai like the industrial revolution and all 00:48:09.789 --> 00:48:11.510 the technological advancements that came out 00:48:11.510 --> 00:48:13.969 of that dictated the way everyone had to fucking 00:48:13.969 --> 00:48:16.010 act in our society exactly You know what I mean? 00:48:16.190 --> 00:48:18.170 It's not the other way around. It's not like, 00:48:18.190 --> 00:48:20.230 you know, we don't have control over what technology 00:48:20.230 --> 00:48:22.829 does or where it goes. There's too many actors 00:48:22.829 --> 00:48:25.130 involved and not any one person who creates technological 00:48:25.130 --> 00:48:27.690 advancements actually in control. Right. Like 00:48:27.690 --> 00:48:30.309 the Oppenheimer thing. Right. You know? Right. 00:48:30.429 --> 00:48:32.429 Like this will just be wrought upon the world. 00:48:32.510 --> 00:48:35.769 Someone will make it. If it's not me, it will 00:48:35.769 --> 00:48:38.530 be someone else because like we're not actually 00:48:38.530 --> 00:48:41.340 in control. this is like a self -fulfilling prophecy 00:48:41.340 --> 00:48:44.079 and this system is what controls everything. 00:48:44.219 --> 00:48:47.579 And you actually like can't escape it until it 00:48:47.579 --> 00:48:50.260 like destroys itself or whatever. Yeah. And like 00:48:50.260 --> 00:48:55.960 the system basically dictates that he, I don't 00:48:55.960 --> 00:48:58.559 know, in a way it feels like the system, uh, 00:48:58.940 --> 00:49:02.260 the AI system in the movie that it's, it is controlling 00:49:02.260 --> 00:49:04.480 everything all along. And its agenda is actually 00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:06.699 to bring the genders back together and like, 00:49:06.780 --> 00:49:09.769 like, equalize the polarity. It's trying to balance 00:49:09.769 --> 00:49:11.389 out the equation. It's almost the exact same 00:49:11.389 --> 00:49:13.809 movie as the Matrix sequels, right? I mean, it's 00:49:13.809 --> 00:49:16.809 almost the same movie as End of Evangelion, too. 00:49:16.909 --> 00:49:18.489 There's so many things that, like, I mean, I 00:49:18.489 --> 00:49:20.610 saw so many fucking things in Evangelion when 00:49:20.610 --> 00:49:21.829 I was watching it this time. I was just like, 00:49:21.969 --> 00:49:24.989 oh, definitely, Anno must actually love this 00:49:24.989 --> 00:49:27.090 movie. I feel like in Japan, sometimes they get 00:49:27.090 --> 00:49:29.190 shit and they don't get any of the, like, connotations 00:49:29.190 --> 00:49:30.849 that we get. So, like, things are successful 00:49:30.849 --> 00:49:32.449 over there that are huge failures over here. 00:49:32.550 --> 00:49:34.809 Zora's might be one of those. It's like, in Japan, 00:49:35.050 --> 00:49:38.070 it's huge. Every anime got... i love zordos it's 00:49:38.070 --> 00:49:40.670 like maybe not i have no idea but they're the 00:49:40.670 --> 00:49:43.030 room with the with the bodies there looks so 00:49:43.030 --> 00:49:45.110 much like the ray room there's the end one is 00:49:45.110 --> 00:49:47.050 like do you want to become one with me i don't 00:49:47.050 --> 00:49:48.409 want to become one with you i will not become 00:49:48.409 --> 00:49:50.030 one with you and whatever it's like it's it's 00:49:50.030 --> 00:49:53.110 very like the end of the series like shinji will 00:49:53.110 --> 00:49:54.849 you become one with us to be one mind and body 00:49:54.849 --> 00:49:58.550 it's the same yeah psychic torture thing and 00:49:58.550 --> 00:50:01.030 everything it's it's yeah Um, but it's also, 00:50:01.090 --> 00:50:03.369 yeah, very much like the matrix was like, well, 00:50:03.409 --> 00:50:05.449 there's the, the, the two sides of the equation 00:50:05.449 --> 00:50:08.550 and actually like the computer just made you 00:50:08.550 --> 00:50:11.630 Neo as a part of the equation that just brings 00:50:11.630 --> 00:50:13.969 the equation back together and resets it so that 00:50:13.969 --> 00:50:17.010 we can then get back to this thing. Like in the 00:50:17.010 --> 00:50:18.369 end, when he's having the family, it's like. 00:50:18.840 --> 00:50:20.699 Well, in another 500 years, we'll probably get 00:50:20.699 --> 00:50:22.940 back to the gender divide thing. Like, you know, 00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:25.260 it's just we've finally returned. It's a Mary 00:50:25.260 --> 00:50:27.239 and Joseph thing, too, and creating, like, the 00:50:27.239 --> 00:50:29.360 Christ figure or something like that. They give 00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:32.320 birth to, like, the new generation that is the 00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:34.460 mixture of their two worlds. Exactly. And the 00:50:34.460 --> 00:50:37.320 coming together of those two worlds. And I love 00:50:37.320 --> 00:50:41.179 what the women's world, like, introduces to him. 00:50:41.219 --> 00:50:42.960 Like, when he learns all the things from the 00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:45.559 tabernacle. And he's like, they're like, now, 00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:48.260 you know, all that we know and we want your seed. 00:50:48.579 --> 00:50:50.900 It's like, we'll trade you. We'll give you all 00:50:50.900 --> 00:50:53.320 of our like society and knowledge and whatever. 00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:56.440 And you give us your dick. It's kind of the trade 00:50:56.440 --> 00:50:58.800 off. It's very funny. It's so interesting how 00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:01.280 attracted they are to him. Yeah. And then like 00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:04.860 how, how attracted, uh, Charlotte Rampling is 00:51:04.860 --> 00:51:07.119 to him too. We just will not accept it. And she 00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:09.639 hates it. And she just needs so badly to deny 00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:13.679 it and whatever. And just like, Yeah, how, like, 00:51:13.940 --> 00:51:16.400 sex is just a big part of it with the whole erection 00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:18.780 scene. Yeah. And how, like, the boobs, like, 00:51:18.880 --> 00:51:21.840 you show, like, clean boobs, dirty wrestling 00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:24.260 girls. Neither of those things give him an erection. 00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:26.679 Not the clean girls, not the dirty girls. But 00:51:26.679 --> 00:51:28.679 then the woman being uncomfortable in front of 00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:29.940 him. The woman being uncomfortable in front of 00:51:29.940 --> 00:51:32.400 him starts to turn him on. And he's not turned 00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:36.099 on by the apathetic. He, like, tries to get busy 00:51:36.099 --> 00:51:37.639 with the apathetic and is like, this is just 00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:41.199 a rag doll. I'm not interested. He needs a girl 00:51:41.199 --> 00:51:43.369 who's going to, like, fight back a little bit 00:51:43.369 --> 00:51:44.989 or something or feel a little uncomfortable yeah 00:51:44.989 --> 00:51:47.670 like it's uh he wants to conquer yeah he wants 00:51:47.670 --> 00:51:49.989 to conquer and she wants to be conquered that's 00:51:49.989 --> 00:51:53.409 why they're all like enter enter please we're 00:51:53.409 --> 00:51:56.170 trying to bring you in he's not raping her he's 00:51:56.170 --> 00:51:58.369 not conquering her it's a consensual thing he's 00:51:58.369 --> 00:52:00.690 not like going hard or anything they have a kid 00:52:00.690 --> 00:52:02.909 like they become equals or whatever like it's 00:52:02.909 --> 00:52:05.469 but it is still it is still them accepting him 00:52:05.469 --> 00:52:09.320 into their into their dome is like the vagina 00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:11.880 accepting the penis into the into the thing and 00:52:11.880 --> 00:52:14.199 it's creating this new thing but through a destruction 00:52:14.199 --> 00:52:16.480 through a conquering through it like it's it 00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:19.420 is all it's he is destroying the society the 00:52:19.420 --> 00:52:22.760 penetrating sperm comes into the egg and like 00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:25.019 changes the thing yeah yeah and his sperm is 00:52:25.019 --> 00:52:27.679 also the guns and the death and the because because 00:52:27.679 --> 00:52:30.099 it's yeah the other thing that i think is really 00:52:30.099 --> 00:52:31.900 interesting the gun is good the penis is evil 00:52:31.900 --> 00:52:34.039 that's i think that's a really interesting concept 00:52:34.039 --> 00:52:38.340 um actually that like When we're talking about 00:52:38.340 --> 00:52:40.780 the agricultural revolution, the industrial revolution, 00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:44.599 like whatever, like through all of human history, 00:52:44.739 --> 00:52:49.739 the creation of life has been a inherent good. 00:52:49.960 --> 00:52:52.460 Right. Like that's it's just like you're that's 00:52:52.460 --> 00:52:54.739 that's good for the you're creating more life. 00:52:54.900 --> 00:52:57.159 That is like nobody is mad at you for creating 00:52:57.159 --> 00:53:01.039 more life or whatever. However, like now we have 00:53:01.039 --> 00:53:03.159 an overpopulation problem, arguably that people 00:53:03.159 --> 00:53:05.179 want to, you know, claim that we don't or whatever. 00:53:07.059 --> 00:53:09.159 And scarcity is not real and all that kind of 00:53:09.159 --> 00:53:13.179 stuff. If you wanted to have a nomad society 00:53:13.179 --> 00:53:15.659 in which people wander around, how many square 00:53:15.659 --> 00:53:18.019 miles does each person need to feed themselves? 00:53:18.320 --> 00:53:21.659 Each person needs 10 square miles or something 00:53:21.659 --> 00:53:24.539 of roaming space in order to forage or whatever. 00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:27.360 If you then have an agricultural revolution, 00:53:27.559 --> 00:53:29.980 then you can have a farm and you can have far 00:53:29.980 --> 00:53:33.130 more food and less space. And more people. More 00:53:33.130 --> 00:53:35.909 people in less space and sustain larger populations. 00:53:35.989 --> 00:53:38.650 And as you continue to gain more and more of 00:53:38.650 --> 00:53:40.670 this technology, you can have more people in 00:53:40.670 --> 00:53:42.650 less space. But at a certain point, like you 00:53:42.650 --> 00:53:45.250 have so many people in so little space. And like 00:53:45.250 --> 00:53:47.869 we the argument is like, no, we could have even 00:53:47.869 --> 00:53:49.550 more people in less space. And it's like, well, 00:53:49.610 --> 00:53:51.130 I understand that. But we're also talking about 00:53:51.130 --> 00:53:53.070 more domestication. We're talking about like 00:53:53.070 --> 00:53:56.949 people being able to be happy living in a. Tiny 00:53:56.949 --> 00:53:59.230 space and they don't roam around anywhere. Right. 00:53:59.250 --> 00:54:01.570 And there's no traveling and no... Right. And 00:54:01.570 --> 00:54:05.190 if you took somebody from one of these ancient 00:54:05.190 --> 00:54:10.550 nomadic tribes and you put them into a desk job, 00:54:10.750 --> 00:54:13.130 they would absolutely kill themselves. It would 00:54:13.130 --> 00:54:15.010 be like putting a tiger in a cage that is just 00:54:15.010 --> 00:54:17.269 walking back and forth until they're... It's 00:54:17.269 --> 00:54:21.010 psychic torture to live in that way. Yeah, exactly. 00:54:21.349 --> 00:54:23.739 But... Over time, we've been domesticated and 00:54:23.739 --> 00:54:27.360 be like attuned to a unnatural way of life that 00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:31.199 is more safe and more secure and more domestic 00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:34.659 and I mean, more feminized and whatnot. However, 00:54:34.860 --> 00:54:37.699 that roaming thing, that masculine energy of 00:54:37.699 --> 00:54:39.880 the conquering and the roaming, that's the thing 00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:42.760 that is becoming less and less. So when you say 00:54:42.760 --> 00:54:45.599 the world can handle more people, this is true. 00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:48.019 It can handle more feminine people. It can handle 00:54:48.019 --> 00:54:51.079 more domesticated people. It cannot handle more. 00:54:51.829 --> 00:54:53.909 conquerors of territories it cannot handle more 00:54:53.909 --> 00:54:57.869 alexanders um you can't have you know a thousand 00:54:57.869 --> 00:55:01.610 zeds wandering around in the streets of you know 00:55:01.610 --> 00:55:03.949 whatever it is yeah but i think what's really 00:55:03.949 --> 00:55:05.889 interesting is is in the beginning of the movie 00:55:05.889 --> 00:55:08.130 there at what point there's some at some point 00:55:08.130 --> 00:55:10.309 in the movie they're talking about Notice the 00:55:10.309 --> 00:55:11.730 beginning of the movie, Zardoz is telling him 00:55:11.730 --> 00:55:14.710 like the penis is bad. It spreads seeds and pollutes 00:55:14.710 --> 00:55:16.690 the earth with more people and blah, blah, blah. 00:55:16.730 --> 00:55:20.289 Like the idea of. Because it takes those people 00:55:20.289 --> 00:55:23.110 out and like manages the population. And the 00:55:23.110 --> 00:55:25.730 idea that like you have to introduce a religion 00:55:25.730 --> 00:55:29.269 to reverse that or whatever. There's a thing 00:55:29.269 --> 00:55:31.210 that for the entirety of human history, that 00:55:31.210 --> 00:55:33.329 was good. And that at a certain point, you're 00:55:33.329 --> 00:55:37.090 going to hit a point where making more people 00:55:37.090 --> 00:55:40.750 is no longer good. Like that sex takes the place 00:55:40.750 --> 00:55:42.530 of violence and violence takes the place of sex. 00:55:42.670 --> 00:55:45.269 That is when you hit a certain level of the population, 00:55:45.429 --> 00:55:51.269 love and sex and kindness and beauty are the 00:55:51.269 --> 00:55:55.349 evil things. And that death and violence and 00:55:55.349 --> 00:55:58.550 destruction and whatever, those are the good 00:55:58.550 --> 00:56:01.190 things. You know, if you, if you come to a point 00:56:01.190 --> 00:56:03.070 in society where that happens, it actually is 00:56:03.070 --> 00:56:05.929 like, Oh no, like everybody, like all of the 00:56:05.929 --> 00:56:08.519 worst people in our history. would be the best 00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:11.639 people now. Like if it's like, if the idea is 00:56:11.639 --> 00:56:13.780 like creating as much life and allowing as many 00:56:13.780 --> 00:56:16.480 people to live as possible, like it's, it's great 00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:18.699 that, you know, we've, we fed all these people 00:56:18.699 --> 00:56:21.139 in sub -Saharan Africa or that we, Andrew Carnegie 00:56:21.139 --> 00:56:23.400 made a, you know, whatever. Like there are all 00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:27.500 these good, positive things for the world, but 00:56:27.500 --> 00:56:29.579 every positive thing then becomes a negative 00:56:29.579 --> 00:56:31.519 thing. Those guys are the bad guys because they 00:56:31.519 --> 00:56:33.000 have overpopulated the world. And actually the 00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:36.670 best guy in the world is like, You know, Attila 00:56:36.670 --> 00:56:39.469 the Hun or somebody, anybody creating a genocide 00:56:39.469 --> 00:56:42.409 is better than feeding a population. Well, what 00:56:42.409 --> 00:56:45.269 you're arguing for is moral relativism. Yeah. 00:56:45.369 --> 00:56:48.449 Which is like, you know, you can argue that either 00:56:48.449 --> 00:56:50.409 way. I think it's like that's a that's a tough 00:56:50.409 --> 00:56:53.489 one to breach because, yeah, it's like I do think 00:56:53.489 --> 00:56:56.889 that there are sort of eternal moral codes. And 00:56:56.889 --> 00:56:58.789 I don't know that like. Well, you need religion 00:56:58.789 --> 00:57:05.170 for that. Sure. But I think just based on. physiology 00:57:05.170 --> 00:57:07.550 like being a human being and knowing how other 00:57:07.550 --> 00:57:11.150 human beings feel like just basically the jesus 00:57:11.150 --> 00:57:13.329 teachings like i get that that's religion but 00:57:13.329 --> 00:57:15.710 it's also based on such a logical concept that 00:57:15.710 --> 00:57:18.690 like but that's what i'm saying the logic of 00:57:18.690 --> 00:57:20.750 the concept like when bad things are happening 00:57:20.750 --> 00:57:22.909 to you you know those are bad things that is 00:57:22.909 --> 00:57:25.789 baked into the universal code that like people 00:57:25.789 --> 00:57:28.710 never feel good when they're being raped or murdered 00:57:28.710 --> 00:57:32.190 or subjugated or like not allowed to move freely 00:57:32.190 --> 00:57:34.889 or whatever. This has always been the case. And 00:57:34.889 --> 00:57:36.510 people always feel good when they're coming. 00:57:36.949 --> 00:57:38.530 Yeah. And people always feel good when they're 00:57:38.530 --> 00:57:40.650 coming. One is a universal good and one is a 00:57:40.650 --> 00:57:43.750 universal bad. I like, I get that. However, like 00:57:43.750 --> 00:57:46.010 the logic part of it, when you say the logic 00:57:46.010 --> 00:57:49.480 part of it, like that logic does flip. If you're 00:57:49.480 --> 00:57:52.340 if you're talking about a purely AI algorithmic, 00:57:52.340 --> 00:57:56.780 logical understanding of morality, like you need 00:57:56.780 --> 00:57:58.639 a religion that's like you should be nice to 00:57:58.639 --> 00:58:00.980 people. Otherwise, the tabernacle is going to 00:58:00.980 --> 00:58:04.340 say, how do we need to we need all of us to die? 00:58:04.599 --> 00:58:08.599 And then we need a savage to come in and inseminate 00:58:08.599 --> 00:58:10.579 the women and then like we can reset and blah, 00:58:10.619 --> 00:58:14.099 blah, blah. But there's a there's a. point where 00:58:14.099 --> 00:58:18.440 like the logical hal 9000 thing is just like 00:58:18.440 --> 00:58:22.219 oh no no no coming is no longer good like coming 00:58:22.219 --> 00:58:25.860 has always felt and been good but now we know 00:58:25.860 --> 00:58:30.239 that the only good thing is genocide you know 00:58:30.239 --> 00:58:32.380 what i mean it's like that's that's a crazy leap 00:58:32.380 --> 00:58:34.699 but sure yeah that is a leap that is connected 00:58:34.699 --> 00:58:37.179 to the anti -natalism in the united states today 00:58:37.530 --> 00:58:39.070 Like, you know what I mean? Anytime that somebody's 00:58:39.070 --> 00:58:40.929 saying like. But that also sounds like the leap 00:58:40.929 --> 00:58:43.610 any leader has to take to justify genocide too. 00:58:43.949 --> 00:58:45.650 It's like we've gotten to a point where like. 00:58:46.230 --> 00:58:47.869 There's too many of this. There's too many of 00:58:47.869 --> 00:58:50.070 this. And this is untenable. It's unsustainable 00:58:50.070 --> 00:58:52.110 and whatever. But this is what people say when 00:58:52.110 --> 00:58:55.010 they say like children are just pollution. And 00:58:55.010 --> 00:58:56.929 like, look at all these people having these fucking 00:58:56.929 --> 00:58:58.449 kids. It's just pollution and blah, blah, blah. 00:58:58.449 --> 00:59:00.570 And people in our generation aren't having kids. 00:59:00.690 --> 00:59:01.889 And they're not thinking about the future because 00:59:01.889 --> 00:59:04.099 they don't have the like. And then you have the 00:59:04.099 --> 00:59:06.539 poor people, like, who are just having 30 children. 00:59:06.820 --> 00:59:12.559 That is the inside the dome, outside the dome 00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:17.000 divide of, like, that's where... It does remind 00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:21.840 me of Elysium a little bit. Like, honestly, Elysium, 00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:24.559 like, draws from Zardoz, like, pretty clearly. 00:59:24.800 --> 00:59:27.940 That's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's more 00:59:27.940 --> 00:59:32.519 based on a... medicine sort of side of things 00:59:32.519 --> 00:59:35.280 but well sure like it ends up talking about like 00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:37.719 universal health care basically it's a it's a 00:59:37.719 --> 00:59:40.559 problematic universal health care it's not like 00:59:40.559 --> 00:59:44.539 it's not as nuanced as zardoz or it's making 00:59:44.539 --> 00:59:46.900 a very clear like partisan statement or whatever 00:59:47.449 --> 00:59:50.150 you made the argument that maybe it was more 00:59:50.150 --> 00:59:52.269 nuanced that maybe the ending was ironic and 00:59:52.269 --> 00:59:54.929 it made me want to maybe revisit it because when 00:59:54.929 --> 00:59:56.250 I watched that fucking movie the ending of that 00:59:56.250 --> 00:59:58.210 just pissed me off so much you did not think 00:59:58.210 --> 01:00:01.030 about this two minutes it's hard to believe that 01:00:01.030 --> 01:00:04.449 it wouldn't be sincere since he was a person 01:00:04.449 --> 01:00:08.639 who like I mean District 9 was about apartheid 01:00:08.639 --> 01:00:12.119 in africa right and like that worked for that 01:00:12.119 --> 01:00:14.440 movie and that didn't feel too preachy because 01:00:14.440 --> 01:00:16.239 it like was only it wasn't that was only the 01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:17.960 setting and it didn't feel like it needed to 01:00:17.960 --> 01:00:20.619 make such a big statement about it because just 01:00:20.619 --> 01:00:23.280 like yeah of course the heroes are people who 01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:25.440 are living in an apartheid state and we're just 01:00:25.440 --> 01:00:27.380 with them right and we're like really happy to 01:00:27.380 --> 01:00:29.139 see them get out of the situation and escape 01:00:29.139 --> 01:00:32.599 and go home right And to be befriended by a guy 01:00:32.599 --> 01:00:34.500 who used to be a part of the state, but is now 01:00:34.500 --> 01:00:36.960 transforming into one of you and like has to 01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:38.800 relate to you because of that. It's such a simple, 01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:42.460 effective formula, that movie. And it works so 01:00:42.460 --> 01:00:45.900 well. But like Elysium does feel like he went 01:00:45.900 --> 01:00:48.139 too far and he's like, now I got to make this 01:00:48.139 --> 01:00:52.030 statement about how, you know, the. the like 01:00:52.030 --> 01:00:54.349 the poor and tired masses need universal health 01:00:54.349 --> 01:00:56.550 care so that like there can what be just like 01:00:56.550 --> 01:00:59.010 immortals living all over the earth i think that's 01:00:59.010 --> 01:01:02.110 like part of the ai is like calculus and zardoz 01:01:02.110 --> 01:01:03.969 is like you can't just make all the brutals immortal 01:01:03.969 --> 01:01:07.230 you can't just like you know what i mean like 01:01:07.230 --> 01:01:09.349 they can't like it's a it's a very like small 01:01:09.349 --> 01:01:13.070 society of immortals it's like very in check 01:01:13.070 --> 01:01:16.190 and when immortals step out of bounds they become 01:01:16.190 --> 01:01:19.260 renegades or apathetics I mean, apathetics is 01:01:19.260 --> 01:01:21.039 not a punishment that just happens. Like you're 01:01:21.039 --> 01:01:22.539 either punished and you become a renegade or 01:01:22.539 --> 01:01:25.079 you just become, you win and become an apathetic. 01:01:25.239 --> 01:01:26.880 Yeah. That's the, that's the, like, it's the 01:01:26.880 --> 01:01:29.199 last scene of 2001. It's the, it's him sitting 01:01:29.199 --> 01:01:30.860 in the room and it's just like, all of your needs 01:01:30.860 --> 01:01:34.679 are met. And like, so there's nothing to do or 01:01:34.679 --> 01:01:37.000 care about. And I love that. I love when friend 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:40.260 is, uh, um, explaining to him basically like, 01:01:40.340 --> 01:01:42.940 yeah, this is why we made you like do all the 01:01:42.940 --> 01:01:45.099 farming is because you need to feed these people. 01:01:45.139 --> 01:01:48.000 It's just kind of like, that is. That is like, 01:01:48.039 --> 01:01:51.239 yeah, this is why we're like attacking, like, 01:01:51.340 --> 01:01:52.860 I don't know. This is why we're taking over the 01:01:52.860 --> 01:01:55.659 middle East is in order to let this suburban 01:01:55.659 --> 01:01:59.199 mom drive an SUV to fucking, you know? Yeah, 01:01:59.199 --> 01:02:01.320 that's true. That is just kind of like a metaphor 01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:05.139 about that, that like we, like the destruction 01:02:05.139 --> 01:02:08.460 that we create and the exploitation that we engage 01:02:08.460 --> 01:02:11.820 in is insane for what it justifies, like the 01:02:11.820 --> 01:02:15.239 lifestyle that it justifies for a consumer nation. 01:02:15.949 --> 01:02:18.369 basically yeah you know so that people can stay 01:02:18.369 --> 01:02:21.110 at home and enjoy their uber eats and watch netflix 01:02:21.110 --> 01:02:23.889 it's like the amount of people that need to die 01:02:23.889 --> 01:02:28.369 every day for that is absurd and like impossible 01:02:28.369 --> 01:02:33.170 to justify like but that's the way i guess it's 01:02:33.170 --> 01:02:35.690 arguable that the people need to die for it but 01:02:35.690 --> 01:02:39.449 i guess like that kind of that is like the that 01:02:39.449 --> 01:02:42.050 has the paradox at the center of being american 01:02:42.050 --> 01:02:46.650 or part of any first world imperialistic Nobody 01:02:46.650 --> 01:02:49.409 wants to run the, what do they call it? The zone 01:02:49.409 --> 01:02:54.670 outside, outside the dome. Nobody wants to. That's 01:02:54.670 --> 01:02:57.570 why Arthur Fring's in charge of it. They're like, 01:02:57.710 --> 01:02:59.630 nobody wanted to run it. He's running it and 01:02:59.630 --> 01:03:01.269 he's an artist and he's doing it. And it's like, 01:03:01.269 --> 01:03:03.510 yeah, nobody wants to do that. It's like, nobody 01:03:03.510 --> 01:03:06.610 wants to be the one, you know, in the Middle 01:03:06.610 --> 01:03:10.889 East doing the thing. It's gotta be done. Yeah. 01:03:10.989 --> 01:03:13.769 Nobody wants to hear about it really. And it's 01:03:13.769 --> 01:03:17.800 just. We'll let the mercenaries go in there and 01:03:17.800 --> 01:03:19.239 do the thing. They're not even working for the 01:03:19.239 --> 01:03:21.440 US government, so they can really do whatever 01:03:21.440 --> 01:03:25.579 the fuck to actually get it done and get Elon 01:03:25.579 --> 01:03:32.820 Musk rich, basically. It's so indefensible. That's 01:03:32.820 --> 01:03:34.199 why we just kind of want some men to come in 01:03:34.199 --> 01:03:34.940 and destroy it. And the apathetics don't rise 01:03:34.940 --> 01:03:38.639 up against the elite. Not even the renegades 01:03:38.639 --> 01:03:41.059 rise up against the elite. No, no, no. But the 01:03:41.059 --> 01:03:44.440 brutals who... enter from outside they just start 01:03:44.440 --> 01:03:49.420 killing everybody but that's that's because Zardoz 01:03:49.420 --> 01:03:52.780 does that for them like the whole like Zardoz 01:03:52.780 --> 01:03:55.940 creates this and Zardoz makes him kill Zardoz 01:03:55.940 --> 01:03:58.780 and then Zardoz brings him to there and like 01:03:58.780 --> 01:04:01.900 the whole thing is that he is creating the revolution 01:04:01.900 --> 01:04:06.260 on purpose and not even to subjugate the revolution 01:04:06.260 --> 01:04:09.019 but to lose to the revolution and he doesn't 01:04:09.019 --> 01:04:11.840 know that like I think in the end he's like Yeah, 01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:13.500 but I know what you were taking orders from, 01:04:13.539 --> 01:04:15.480 too. This is not his planet. He's just another 01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:18.059 pawn. He's just another pawn. He's just an operator 01:04:18.059 --> 01:04:20.739 for the Tabernacle, the AI program. Which is 01:04:20.739 --> 01:04:23.659 John Borman. Yeah, yeah. Which is the creator 01:04:23.659 --> 01:04:25.860 of the film. So it is all explained in the first 01:04:25.860 --> 01:04:28.860 line. Oh, completely. You know? It's just you 01:04:28.860 --> 01:04:30.420 don't have enough context to understand it or 01:04:30.420 --> 01:04:32.340 whatever. Which is why it's such a weird way 01:04:32.340 --> 01:04:34.420 to fucking start it. But it does give you this, 01:04:34.440 --> 01:04:37.070 like... I feel like if you were watching the 01:04:37.070 --> 01:04:39.329 movie without that introduction, you might watch 01:04:39.329 --> 01:04:41.170 the beginning and be like, oh, this is, and then 01:04:41.170 --> 01:04:42.309 it gets to a certain point where you're like, 01:04:42.369 --> 01:04:44.090 oh, I'm pissed about this now. Like, this is 01:04:44.090 --> 01:04:46.389 cheesy now. I thought this was going to be. That 01:04:46.389 --> 01:04:48.170 really does set the tone in a way. It does set 01:04:48.170 --> 01:04:50.909 the tone where it makes you accept the cheesiness. 01:04:53.530 --> 01:04:55.289 I don't know. You got anything else on Zardoz? 01:04:58.630 --> 01:05:00.269 I think we might have really covered it well. 01:05:00.429 --> 01:05:02.780 I think we did. Yeah. I have to pee really bad, 01:05:02.820 --> 01:05:04.340 though. Yeah, me too. All right, let's take a 01:05:04.340 --> 01:05:07.579 break. So we're going to take a break, and we're 01:05:07.579 --> 01:05:10.320 going to pick another movie to watch, and we're 01:05:10.320 --> 01:05:11.539 going to watch it, and then we're going to come 01:05:11.539 --> 01:05:13.519 right back. We'll be back after another one. 01:05:14.440 --> 01:05:55.980 Yep. We'll let you know what we did. Okay, we're 01:05:55.980 --> 01:06:00.900 back. We chose AI. You would already know that 01:06:00.900 --> 01:06:03.360 if you're listening to this because it's in the 01:06:03.360 --> 01:06:06.139 title. We didn't know that, at least. Yeah, we 01:06:06.139 --> 01:06:08.719 didn't know that at the time. After the conversation 01:06:08.719 --> 01:06:12.800 about Zardoz, we had a smoke, chatted over for 01:06:12.800 --> 01:06:14.280 a little while, and then something started to 01:06:14.280 --> 01:06:16.480 nag at us. We started to think that there was 01:06:16.480 --> 01:06:19.380 definitely some other movie. Well, there's the 01:06:19.380 --> 01:06:21.559 part of Zordos we didn't talk about. In the first 01:06:21.559 --> 01:06:24.679 part, we totally didn't mention the whole fact 01:06:24.679 --> 01:06:27.380 that this is all based on the Wizard of Oz book 01:06:27.380 --> 01:06:31.519 interpretation thing. We were trying to figure 01:06:31.519 --> 01:06:35.380 out what is the other movie where the whole thing 01:06:35.380 --> 01:06:38.239 is revealed to be based on some sort of 20th 01:06:38.239 --> 01:06:41.420 century book. We couldn't figure it out, basically. 01:06:42.500 --> 01:06:47.570 It took a little while. I don't even know if 01:06:47.570 --> 01:06:50.449 it was AI in the end that was that thing. I feel 01:06:50.449 --> 01:06:51.929 like there's still another one that we're not 01:06:51.929 --> 01:06:55.710 remembering. I feel like there is another one 01:06:55.710 --> 01:06:58.789 where there's a moment where they wipe the dust 01:06:58.789 --> 01:07:00.909 off of some book and you see the title and it's 01:07:00.909 --> 01:07:04.449 like, oh my god, it's all been this. I guess 01:07:04.449 --> 01:07:08.130 there's kind of that in the subway in one of 01:07:08.130 --> 01:07:09.650 the Planet of the Apes movies where they wipe 01:07:09.650 --> 01:07:11.530 the thing aside and you realize that it's... 01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:14.119 actually it feels like that kind of reveal so 01:07:14.119 --> 01:07:16.099 you might be conflating it with other things 01:07:16.099 --> 01:07:18.320 but like i don't know i feel i feel you man i 01:07:18.320 --> 01:07:21.119 feel like that's something that's in my brain 01:07:21.119 --> 01:07:25.480 somewhere too yeah but ai came up just because 01:07:25.480 --> 01:07:28.480 we were thinking about the this concept and we 01:07:28.480 --> 01:07:30.199 kind of just decided that that would be an interesting 01:07:30.199 --> 01:07:33.280 one to pair and as we're watching ai kind of 01:07:33.280 --> 01:07:36.400 was like well yeah the fucking the pinocchio 01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:39.989 thing like the the whole you know, Pinocchio 01:07:39.989 --> 01:07:42.090 thing is already there, like in the first chapter 01:07:42.090 --> 01:07:43.789 of the movie or whatever, like it happens in 01:07:43.789 --> 01:07:45.730 the first act. So it's not really just this big 01:07:45.730 --> 01:07:47.590 reveal that it was all based on this. So I don't 01:07:47.590 --> 01:07:49.230 know. I don't think it fits. I don't think that 01:07:49.230 --> 01:07:50.630 was the same. I don't think that was the one 01:07:50.630 --> 01:07:52.909 that we were thinking of, but it totally works 01:07:52.909 --> 01:07:54.809 as a great pairing. I think, well, it's interesting 01:07:54.809 --> 01:07:59.010 to, yeah, kind of talk about them in relation 01:07:59.010 --> 01:08:01.809 to one another. Um, these like book reveals, 01:08:01.929 --> 01:08:06.190 because in the, in Zardoz, it is a reveal that 01:08:06.190 --> 01:08:09.340 he like discovered the wizard of Oz. It was actually 01:08:09.340 --> 01:08:11.500 revealed that he was led to discover the Wizard 01:08:11.500 --> 01:08:14.460 of Oz. Right, right. And whatever. That Zardoz 01:08:14.460 --> 01:08:17.020 literally comes from the name Wizard of Oz. It's 01:08:17.020 --> 01:08:20.859 derived from it. And just learning the whole 01:08:20.859 --> 01:08:23.640 truth about the wizard just being this regular 01:08:23.640 --> 01:08:27.119 guy who hides behind all this kind of showy... 01:08:27.119 --> 01:08:30.159 Like a simulated reality. Like a facade. Like 01:08:30.159 --> 01:08:32.979 a facade, yeah. That makes him seem more powerful 01:08:32.979 --> 01:08:35.479 than he really is. Right. And behind that, it's 01:08:35.479 --> 01:08:39.680 just some sort of banal dude. And I think that 01:08:39.680 --> 01:08:43.039 like, it's interesting to use that in Zardoz 01:08:43.039 --> 01:08:45.079 because like that is kind of like this base revelation 01:08:45.079 --> 01:08:49.340 of Wizard of Oz that like is basically made into 01:08:49.340 --> 01:08:51.319 a fractal in that movie. Like the way that like 01:08:51.319 --> 01:08:53.560 acid turns like anything into sort of like a 01:08:53.560 --> 01:08:55.760 fractal where it's like, you know, a reflection 01:08:55.760 --> 01:08:57.800 of a reflection of a reflection that all like 01:08:57.800 --> 01:09:00.359 means this, like seeing that it's the Wizard 01:09:00.359 --> 01:09:02.960 of Oz in the end is like, oh, well, that's actually. 01:09:03.699 --> 01:09:07.100 was the base idea that foreman was just tripping 01:09:07.100 --> 01:09:09.420 out on basically and like made a whole movie 01:09:09.420 --> 01:09:11.579 about where like every aspect of it is like oh 01:09:11.579 --> 01:09:13.539 well behind this guy is another guy behind that 01:09:13.539 --> 01:09:15.260 is another guy and there's always another conspiracy 01:09:15.260 --> 01:09:16.880 another bigger thing and then in the end you're 01:09:16.880 --> 01:09:18.819 in the conspiracy and you know that it's buying 01:09:18.819 --> 01:09:20.479 into the thing that you were fighting against 01:09:20.479 --> 01:09:22.340 and everything's compromised and everybody's 01:09:22.340 --> 01:09:25.539 on the take and it's i don't know but i think 01:09:25.539 --> 01:09:29.199 it's like i i like that use of that wizard of 01:09:29.199 --> 01:09:32.460 oz idea just sort of fractalized. And so I think 01:09:32.460 --> 01:09:35.319 it's kind of different in this movie. Well, it's 01:09:35.319 --> 01:09:39.939 like Pinocchio in AI. The story isn't something 01:09:39.939 --> 01:09:45.899 that serves to break the fantasy of David's life. 01:09:46.020 --> 01:09:48.439 It's something that reinforces the fantasy of 01:09:48.439 --> 01:09:52.279 his life. You know, he's not a real boy. He is 01:09:52.279 --> 01:09:57.220 a machine. And his, his belief in this thing 01:09:57.220 --> 01:10:01.550 that is not real is like what, arguably makes 01:10:01.550 --> 01:10:03.550 him human in the end or whatever makes him transcend 01:10:03.550 --> 01:10:05.789 or is at least the thing in his programming that 01:10:05.789 --> 01:10:08.970 makes him so no it's like a false religion that 01:10:08.970 --> 01:10:10.770 he's been presented right the pinocchio idea 01:10:10.770 --> 01:10:14.550 is very much the way that zardoz is like the 01:10:14.550 --> 01:10:17.109 false religion for zed and stuff you know what 01:10:17.109 --> 01:10:18.989 i mean that makes him go out and kill and what 01:10:18.989 --> 01:10:22.010 does that get when he like you know When he destroys 01:10:22.010 --> 01:10:24.069 that religion and completely gets rid of that 01:10:24.069 --> 01:10:27.310 whole system, he's just assimilated by another 01:10:27.310 --> 01:10:30.609 one. Right. Of course. Because behind that was 01:10:30.609 --> 01:10:33.810 another mass. He rebels against the system, but 01:10:33.810 --> 01:10:35.970 there's just another layer after that. Yeah, 01:10:36.050 --> 01:10:37.750 yeah, yeah. Until in the end, he just strips 01:10:37.750 --> 01:10:41.850 it down to just family and reproduction. Which 01:10:41.850 --> 01:10:43.609 is ultimately what the system wants to do to 01:10:43.609 --> 01:10:45.930 you. I mean, it's what the system needs for itself 01:10:45.930 --> 01:10:48.369 at that point and stuff. It's like the system 01:10:48.369 --> 01:10:51.819 is, I don't know. collapsing while continuing 01:10:51.819 --> 01:10:55.039 on this sort of one -sided paradigm it needs 01:10:55.039 --> 01:11:00.579 the the reintroduction of that sort of savagery 01:11:00.579 --> 01:11:06.899 and life but i think the story in ai like also 01:11:06.899 --> 01:11:09.159 does resemble that in a lot of ways this this 01:11:09.159 --> 01:11:12.619 whole thing about this system that kind of has 01:11:12.619 --> 01:11:15.319 control over things it's not as explicit maybe 01:11:15.319 --> 01:11:18.609 but I think it's made explicit pretty early on 01:11:18.609 --> 01:11:22.470 where they like, there's, they have to limit 01:11:22.470 --> 01:11:25.350 births and like, you know, that's, that's part 01:11:25.350 --> 01:11:27.630 of the living in a post apocalyptic period in 01:11:27.630 --> 01:11:31.369 a way. And yeah. And they, they like have to 01:11:31.369 --> 01:11:33.890 maintain this equilibrium and not continue to 01:11:33.890 --> 01:11:35.909 grow and whatever. So like they have to limit 01:11:35.909 --> 01:11:39.430 births and they have to therefore like quell 01:11:39.430 --> 01:11:42.590 this, these desires, these sexual desires. There's, 01:11:42.590 --> 01:11:44.810 you know, the sex spots that are created for 01:11:44.810 --> 01:11:48.590 these things. But there's also this new concept 01:11:48.590 --> 01:11:53.130 of this child bot. And that, I think, is the 01:11:53.130 --> 01:11:56.090 sickest, most twisted fucking concept. You were 01:11:56.090 --> 01:11:58.350 saying... It's incredibly problematic. Yeah. 01:11:58.350 --> 01:12:00.810 Honestly, when you think about it. And you were 01:12:00.810 --> 01:12:03.789 saying, like, reading the trivia or whatever, 01:12:03.949 --> 01:12:07.289 that Spielberg claimed... That the story is that 01:12:07.289 --> 01:12:12.100 Kubrick really wrote the, like, first... and 01:12:12.100 --> 01:12:14.260 the third act of the movie, essentially, but 01:12:14.260 --> 01:12:17.979 the middle sort of act of him on his journey 01:12:17.979 --> 01:12:24.060 with the flesh fair and the sex city, what's 01:12:24.060 --> 01:12:29.239 it called? Rouge City. Rouge City, yeah, yeah, 01:12:29.239 --> 01:12:33.779 Rouge City. That whole part of it was Spielberg. 01:12:33.880 --> 01:12:38.039 And I think that that stuff is a lot of kind 01:12:38.039 --> 01:12:42.460 of... explicit um violence and sexuality and 01:12:42.460 --> 01:12:46.640 whatnot but i think that the really really fucked 01:12:46.640 --> 01:12:48.600 up and disturbing stuff in this movie is in the 01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:51.420 beginning and and like you know what i mean that's 01:12:51.420 --> 01:12:55.100 like the the it's the ironic kubrick like thing 01:12:55.100 --> 01:12:57.640 yeah i mean i was i was saying this whole watch 01:12:57.640 --> 01:12:59.279 through man that like this is a fucking horror 01:12:59.279 --> 01:13:02.039 movie this is terrifying terrifying it's terrifying 01:13:02.039 --> 01:13:06.079 the whole beginning we're like yeah she's the 01:13:06.079 --> 01:13:07.920 kids first, they're just like following around 01:13:07.920 --> 01:13:09.979 and being weird. It's just like, dude, this is 01:13:09.979 --> 01:13:14.600 so fucking gross. Like, well, like I think that 01:13:14.600 --> 01:13:15.840 what's really interesting about that is like 01:13:15.840 --> 01:13:19.000 the reason that she is given this kid is because 01:13:19.000 --> 01:13:23.699 she has this kid who's dying or whatever. Like 01:13:23.699 --> 01:13:27.439 it should be dead essentially. But, like, she 01:13:27.439 --> 01:13:30.140 can't mourn for him because he's not actually 01:13:30.140 --> 01:13:33.819 dead because he will theoretically someday be 01:13:33.819 --> 01:13:37.659 coming back when, you know, science advances 01:13:37.659 --> 01:13:39.779 to the point where they can cure this thing or 01:13:39.779 --> 01:13:43.539 whatever. And so, like, the natural sort of flow 01:13:43.539 --> 01:13:47.060 of, like, the emotional reality of, like, parenthood 01:13:47.060 --> 01:13:49.640 or whatever, like, is being totally disrupted 01:13:49.640 --> 01:13:52.600 by this modern convenience. Like, it's not like 01:13:52.600 --> 01:13:55.079 a horrible, like... it's like it's great that 01:13:55.079 --> 01:13:57.539 they can help this kid or whatever you know what 01:13:57.539 --> 01:14:03.199 i mean but she has this human thing that needs 01:14:03.199 --> 01:14:07.960 to be sort of quelled and it's like either she 01:14:07.960 --> 01:14:11.159 can get over this or she cannot but this thing 01:14:11.159 --> 01:14:13.420 is like a sort of stop gap you know what i mean 01:14:13.420 --> 01:14:15.800 the idea of this i mean the idea of this child 01:14:15.800 --> 01:14:18.220 as presented in the movie at least is like presented 01:14:18.220 --> 01:14:20.079 as this sort of stop gap for the suffering and 01:14:20.079 --> 01:14:21.859 this suffering is something that's like completely 01:14:21.859 --> 01:14:27.050 this like modern, technolized society problem 01:14:27.050 --> 01:14:31.689 of, like, the... Not allowing people to let things 01:14:31.689 --> 01:14:35.050 go and kind of, like, always leading them on 01:14:35.050 --> 01:14:38.270 with these supposed solutions and technological 01:14:38.270 --> 01:14:40.229 advancements and whatever. Right, right. And, 01:14:40.270 --> 01:14:42.710 like, while those may provide the thing that 01:14:42.710 --> 01:14:45.149 we want, it's also, like, completely unnatural 01:14:45.149 --> 01:14:48.550 and impossible to, like, emotionally deal with 01:14:48.550 --> 01:14:51.050 as a human being. You know what I mean? Like, 01:14:51.069 --> 01:14:56.390 it's... I don't know. Just like the, like, I 01:14:56.390 --> 01:14:58.289 don't know, just hospitals and death and things. 01:14:58.369 --> 01:15:00.029 Like, I don't know, just like the idea of like. 01:15:00.029 --> 01:15:02.949 Just like in Zardoz, you know, like those immortals 01:15:02.949 --> 01:15:06.029 and everything, they like also kind of reach 01:15:06.029 --> 01:15:09.189 that place of apathy and boredom because of that, 01:15:09.270 --> 01:15:13.369 like, you know. Totally. There's a certain disconnect 01:15:13.369 --> 01:15:16.909 with the actual reality of life. Yeah, there's 01:15:16.909 --> 01:15:18.489 like a similarity between the societies, even 01:15:18.489 --> 01:15:21.270 though it's much more like extreme in Zardoz 01:15:21.270 --> 01:15:24.890 or whatever. I mean, you see a society that's 01:15:24.890 --> 01:15:27.050 clearly a couple factions, one that is really, 01:15:27.109 --> 01:15:32.470 like, relatively open arms to AI and robots being 01:15:32.470 --> 01:15:35.510 a part of their life and world, and then a faction 01:15:35.510 --> 01:15:39.029 of people who think they're just like Satan and 01:15:39.029 --> 01:15:42.029 they need to be destroyed. But, like, nobody 01:15:42.029 --> 01:15:45.529 agrees that they're actually sentient. Like, 01:15:45.529 --> 01:15:50.350 it's a world where, like, we hate the AI and 01:15:50.350 --> 01:15:53.449 we hate the machine. well i mean or we love the 01:15:53.449 --> 01:15:56.550 machine but like we know it's a we know it's 01:15:56.550 --> 01:15:58.829 a machine like you know you know it's a machine 01:15:58.829 --> 01:16:00.829 like you can't accept that it's sentient or that 01:16:00.829 --> 01:16:02.850 it loves the thing is that occasionally people 01:16:02.850 --> 01:16:05.449 in this movie are seduced by the machine of course 01:16:05.449 --> 01:16:08.229 yeah and like in the moment that like that seduction 01:16:08.229 --> 01:16:10.430 is like that's the whole thing often in this 01:16:10.430 --> 01:16:12.770 movie it's women who are seduced by by the little 01:16:12.770 --> 01:16:17.109 girl and yeah it's it's like every man in this 01:16:17.109 --> 01:16:21.090 movie basically is like This is bullshit. So 01:16:21.090 --> 01:16:22.710 you think this connects to your gender dynamic 01:16:22.710 --> 01:16:27.390 idea in Zardoz? This is still the feminine society. 01:16:28.489 --> 01:16:32.270 I mean, the most masculine people were the ones 01:16:32.270 --> 01:16:35.670 killing those robots. They're like cowboys out 01:16:35.670 --> 01:16:38.210 there. They're like zombie hunting as far as 01:16:38.210 --> 01:16:41.750 I'm concerned. Out on motorcycles, rounding these 01:16:41.750 --> 01:16:44.310 guys up, doing what Zardoz does. They're getting 01:16:44.310 --> 01:16:46.010 out their aggression and creating a spectacle 01:16:46.010 --> 01:16:49.359 for a bunch of people. miserable and need entertainment 01:16:49.359 --> 01:16:51.239 and want to get all this fucking vicariously 01:16:51.239 --> 01:16:55.279 get all this yeah and they're like in that place 01:16:55.279 --> 01:16:58.039 but it doesn't but it's interesting like brendan 01:16:58.039 --> 01:17:01.279 gleason could have been like a um like a sleeper 01:17:01.279 --> 01:17:02.960 agent or something like that he could have been 01:17:02.960 --> 01:17:06.319 like working for the company and whatever and 01:17:06.319 --> 01:17:08.260 that would have been more like interesting that 01:17:08.260 --> 01:17:10.100 they were like keeping all these people down 01:17:10.100 --> 01:17:12.640 with all the robot violence and shit like that 01:17:12.640 --> 01:17:16.310 and like satiating them and all this shit But 01:17:16.310 --> 01:17:18.390 I like the whole like getting them on both sides 01:17:18.390 --> 01:17:20.850 sort of thing. I like the flesh fair shit. No, 01:17:20.909 --> 01:17:22.869 yeah, the flesh fair shit's awesome. It really 01:17:22.869 --> 01:17:27.130 perfectly captures like just how brutal human 01:17:27.130 --> 01:17:30.609 beings can be if you dehumanize like the one 01:17:30.609 --> 01:17:34.140 you're. Totally. But at the same time, they had 01:17:34.140 --> 01:17:36.039 all this medieval torture stuff where they're 01:17:36.039 --> 01:17:38.220 like pulling them apart and like pouring hot 01:17:38.220 --> 01:17:39.680 oil on their faces. But they're not experiencing 01:17:39.680 --> 01:17:42.720 pain and they don't like, they don't seem to 01:17:42.720 --> 01:17:44.460 experience pain. I'm not sure I would believe, 01:17:44.460 --> 01:17:46.239 I'm not sure I would believe they're sentient 01:17:46.239 --> 01:17:48.880 or human or worthy of rights or any of that either. 01:17:49.239 --> 01:17:51.300 No, but I mean, but I mean, it's also like what 01:17:51.300 --> 01:17:52.539 the people, what the people are experiencing 01:17:52.539 --> 01:17:55.579 is not people like. experiencing pain you're 01:17:55.579 --> 01:17:59.500 not watching a robot being like ah it hurts they're 01:17:59.500 --> 01:18:00.920 like you're watching robots getting the real 01:18:00.920 --> 01:18:03.159 thing like seem like a person and then as soon 01:18:03.159 --> 01:18:05.520 as they're ripped apart it's like oh shit they 01:18:05.520 --> 01:18:07.060 don't even care they're just they're just like 01:18:07.060 --> 01:18:09.640 smiling as their head goes off like it's like 01:18:09.640 --> 01:18:12.079 i mean they don't want to die theoretically but 01:18:12.079 --> 01:18:14.300 it's very yeah i mean i mean it's like watching 01:18:14.300 --> 01:18:16.260 monster trucks i guess or something like it's 01:18:16.260 --> 01:18:18.479 still like entertainment but maybe and like football 01:18:18.479 --> 01:18:20.520 you know like football could be way more brutal 01:18:20.520 --> 01:18:24.840 and intense and violent but like We still get 01:18:24.840 --> 01:18:28.060 all that animalistic kind of energy out of us 01:18:28.060 --> 01:18:31.640 by vicariously watching that sort of stuff. I 01:18:31.640 --> 01:18:35.680 think the idea there's something different about 01:18:35.680 --> 01:18:37.539 seeing the kid up there. Is it just because it's 01:18:37.539 --> 01:18:39.500 a kid? Is it because of the way that he's acting? 01:18:42.079 --> 01:18:46.760 Mechas don't act scared. He's programmed to be 01:18:46.760 --> 01:18:49.680 scared, I guess. I don't know. The thing is, 01:18:49.699 --> 01:18:50.699 I think it's interesting the way that people 01:18:50.699 --> 01:18:52.899 react to it and like that, that there is a difference. 01:18:52.960 --> 01:18:54.880 Like, like, I don't know that most of the people 01:18:54.880 --> 01:18:56.659 in the audience, like that's, that's why they 01:18:56.659 --> 01:18:58.680 throw the thing at him. Like these people in 01:18:58.680 --> 01:19:00.960 the audience are empathetic human beings that 01:19:00.960 --> 01:19:03.760 like, as soon as this, you know, Mecca pulls 01:19:03.760 --> 01:19:06.399 this trick, they're like, oh, well, no, we're 01:19:06.399 --> 01:19:08.779 not enjoying watching a child be ripped apart. 01:19:08.859 --> 01:19:10.979 Like that's not, it's not like we're, they're 01:19:10.979 --> 01:19:12.739 just being fooled at that point. Or are they? 01:19:12.760 --> 01:19:15.800 Like, I think that's like the ongoing conversation 01:19:15.800 --> 01:19:18.560 in this movie. Just like, There's a famous episode 01:19:18.560 --> 01:19:21.220 of Star Trek that's all about whether or not 01:19:21.220 --> 01:19:25.399 Data has sentience or whether or not he has rights. 01:19:25.720 --> 01:19:28.220 And the episode kind of firmly comes down to 01:19:28.220 --> 01:19:32.600 the idea that he does. And Picard wins the court 01:19:32.600 --> 01:19:35.319 case and whatever. He argues that they can't 01:19:35.319 --> 01:19:37.939 prove human beings are sentient either. And I 01:19:37.939 --> 01:19:42.779 wonder how... Data is also unique and special 01:19:42.779 --> 01:19:46.199 in the way that David theoretically thought he 01:19:46.199 --> 01:19:49.579 was. um until the end but it's decided it's just 01:19:49.579 --> 01:19:52.220 like a magic robot he's not you know he's not 01:19:52.220 --> 01:19:54.739 replicable it's actually it actually is like 01:19:54.739 --> 01:19:56.880 this the mcguffin because it's not it's like 01:19:56.880 --> 01:19:59.399 quite possibly not a scientifically achievable 01:19:59.399 --> 01:20:03.699 thing right to create david or a data or whatever 01:20:03.699 --> 01:20:06.239 data yeah i don't think that's a scientifically 01:20:06.239 --> 01:20:10.159 achievable thing i don't know david like the 01:20:10.159 --> 01:20:14.800 thing is like i i don't i the whole time don't 01:20:15.699 --> 01:20:20.720 believe that David is I don't empathize with 01:20:20.720 --> 01:20:24.300 David like David is a monster he's very scary 01:20:24.300 --> 01:20:28.659 he's creepy until the end but like he is like 01:20:28.659 --> 01:20:30.960 he's tricking these people and they're right 01:20:30.960 --> 01:20:35.899 and this mom is so hot but she is so dumb to 01:20:35.899 --> 01:20:37.960 be tricked by these very basic things but that's 01:20:37.960 --> 01:20:41.739 what people are is like we are organic machines 01:20:41.739 --> 01:20:45.119 that respond to specific stimuli and when you're 01:20:45.119 --> 01:20:49.000 like a woman who is experiencing the loss of 01:20:49.000 --> 01:20:51.560 your child and you have a child like there's 01:20:51.560 --> 01:20:54.180 there's no way that that doesn't work you know 01:20:54.180 --> 01:20:57.140 what i mean and like i think what's i think what's 01:20:57.140 --> 01:20:58.819 really interesting about the imprinting thing 01:20:58.819 --> 01:21:01.520 is like do they say like don't do this until 01:21:01.520 --> 01:21:04.680 you're completely ready because you know we have 01:21:04.680 --> 01:21:07.340 to destroy them and whatever it'll be permanently 01:21:07.340 --> 01:21:10.390 imprinted onto you But it's, yeah, you'll be 01:21:10.390 --> 01:21:13.350 permanently imprinted onto him. But, like, the 01:21:13.350 --> 01:21:16.050 real thing is, like, nah, man, it's that when 01:21:16.050 --> 01:21:19.409 this kid acts as hard as he can and calls you 01:21:19.409 --> 01:21:22.869 mommy, you, this person who needs this, like, 01:21:22.970 --> 01:21:26.250 that's the thing that's irreversible. It's, like, 01:21:26.289 --> 01:21:29.069 that's the real damage that's being done by the 01:21:29.069 --> 01:21:33.979 activation. you know it's like what's changing 01:21:33.979 --> 01:21:36.640 in him like i understand that in the movie there's 01:21:36.640 --> 01:21:38.720 the idea that he does become more sentient after 01:21:38.720 --> 01:21:41.500 that in some ways but i think that in the moment 01:21:41.500 --> 01:21:45.000 no he's still just like a a like i want the validation 01:21:45.000 --> 01:21:49.119 of mommy machine and that machine is just like 01:21:49.119 --> 01:21:51.079 okay well if you're serious then we'll be serious 01:21:51.079 --> 01:21:54.460 and do do like put in the full program and be 01:21:54.460 --> 01:21:57.159 like mommy and look at her with the relaxed face 01:21:57.159 --> 01:22:01.029 and like she loses that like that it's not about 01:22:01.029 --> 01:22:05.109 that program being irreversible it's about mommy's 01:22:05.109 --> 01:22:07.550 program being irreversible once you do this and 01:22:07.550 --> 01:22:11.510 he says mommy that's it and she like then cannot 01:22:11.510 --> 01:22:13.630 be rational about this and continues not to be 01:22:13.630 --> 01:22:16.550 like it's it's very like even him being really 01:22:16.550 --> 01:22:19.369 creepy with like a scissors by her face and whatever 01:22:19.369 --> 01:22:21.710 blah blah it's like this is not it's very different 01:22:21.710 --> 01:22:23.989 than if it was like a dog that like bits that's 01:22:23.989 --> 01:22:25.750 a sentient thing that has its own experience 01:22:25.750 --> 01:22:29.340 of the world and something like this is a video 01:22:29.340 --> 01:22:33.300 game like and you're now obsessed with this video 01:22:33.300 --> 01:22:35.579 game in a way that is like it's you're the only 01:22:35.579 --> 01:22:38.159 person having an experience here like when you're 01:22:38.159 --> 01:22:41.359 in a room with this kid like you're alone and 01:22:41.359 --> 01:22:46.380 that's that is that is real i think well i think 01:22:46.380 --> 01:22:48.539 it's very easy to say that he is just acting 01:22:48.539 --> 01:22:51.220 on his programming that he is like a i want mommy's 01:22:51.220 --> 01:22:53.960 validation machine but but aren't we all thing 01:22:53.960 --> 01:22:57.579 is he is he is programmed to do that but he's 01:22:58.010 --> 01:23:03.189 not necessarily programmed to not have that like 01:23:03.189 --> 01:23:06.609 the moment she exactly let's go and whatever 01:23:06.609 --> 01:23:09.130 then all of a sudden he doesn't have like a like 01:23:09.130 --> 01:23:11.590 a rule book for this right so he actually does 01:23:11.590 --> 01:23:15.590 invent his own like system of faith and whatever 01:23:15.590 --> 01:23:19.310 that like drives him towards a goal right and 01:23:19.310 --> 01:23:21.050 he actually does achieve that goal in the end 01:23:21.050 --> 01:23:23.090 in like some kind of that's what's amazing dude 01:23:23.090 --> 01:23:25.390 it's like it's because of the loss of the of 01:23:25.390 --> 01:23:29.149 the love of his mind it's about the like that 01:23:29.149 --> 01:23:32.250 original trauma or something that like begins 01:23:32.250 --> 01:23:35.970 to make him. And I'm not saying make him human 01:23:35.970 --> 01:23:37.930 because he's not human in the end. I don't think 01:23:37.930 --> 01:23:42.590 he's human, but what he is, is a, maybe the most 01:23:42.590 --> 01:23:45.189 important piece of art that humanity has ever 01:23:45.189 --> 01:23:48.970 made that like really represents what we are 01:23:48.970 --> 01:23:52.770 as a species and like lives beyond us. One of 01:23:52.770 --> 01:23:53.890 the things that I was thinking about, like this 01:23:53.890 --> 01:23:57.569 time is just like, I mean, i'm sure like spielberg's 01:23:57.569 --> 01:24:00.229 read akira and stuff and like or at least scenic 01:24:00.229 --> 01:24:03.130 like you know like he's he's pop cultural literate 01:24:03.130 --> 01:24:06.890 but i mean he talks about it all over ready player 01:24:06.890 --> 01:24:09.649 one you know what i mean but the the in the akira 01:24:09.649 --> 01:24:12.909 manga where you know after tokyo 3 is destroyed 01:24:12.909 --> 01:24:15.930 for the second time and the the robots come out 01:24:15.930 --> 01:24:19.449 and they have that speech about like um um after 01:24:19.449 --> 01:24:22.510 like they work on you know nuclear batteries 01:24:22.510 --> 01:24:24.750 and they're indestructible they're they can withstand 01:24:24.750 --> 01:24:27.229 a nuclear blast or like three nuclear blasts 01:24:27.229 --> 01:24:28.789 or whatever they'll live forever like if the 01:24:28.789 --> 01:24:30.970 comet hits the earth it'll like these will be 01:24:30.970 --> 01:24:34.529 standing here protecting japan and like you know 01:24:34.529 --> 01:24:37.229 when long after humanity's gone like they will 01:24:37.229 --> 01:24:39.430 be the only thing that's like protecting the 01:24:39.430 --> 01:24:44.560 like the dust that used to be humanity And that's 01:24:44.560 --> 01:24:46.539 like that's a sick idea. It's awesome. But like 01:24:46.539 --> 01:24:49.319 what's way cooler than that is having that be 01:24:49.319 --> 01:24:52.260 this little boy who's missing his mom and just 01:24:52.260 --> 01:24:55.859 wants validation and like wants to be a real 01:24:55.859 --> 01:24:59.800 person because like literally like that's like 01:24:59.800 --> 01:25:03.220 what else are we other than just like mommy validation 01:25:03.220 --> 01:25:05.680 machines that then leave this womb and then go 01:25:05.680 --> 01:25:07.979 out to the world to like try and find some way 01:25:07.979 --> 01:25:11.119 to reproduce that like love that like. yeah perfect 01:25:11.119 --> 01:25:14.920 love that we've lost or whatever it's yeah well 01:25:14.920 --> 01:25:17.880 i was saying also watching it that like it's 01:25:17.880 --> 01:25:20.100 it's it's almost like a racer head or something 01:25:20.100 --> 01:25:22.739 it's almost like this surreal portrayal of what 01:25:22.739 --> 01:25:24.960 it actually kind of is like to have a kid oh 01:25:24.960 --> 01:25:28.260 yeah so like the idea that he's like weird because 01:25:28.260 --> 01:25:30.060 he's ai well it's like well have you ever had 01:25:30.060 --> 01:25:33.539 a kid like it gets weird and like things will 01:25:33.539 --> 01:25:37.100 make you very uncomfortable right and like you 01:25:37.100 --> 01:25:39.100 know i feel like in a lot of ways they're like 01:25:39.100 --> 01:25:40.659 trying to decide whether or not to like have 01:25:40.659 --> 01:25:43.479 an abortion right or something yeah you take 01:25:43.479 --> 01:25:45.180 it even farther he could even be like an autistic 01:25:45.180 --> 01:25:47.180 kid like they got a report that like he's gonna 01:25:47.180 --> 01:25:49.819 be like really weird and it's like hard to deal 01:25:49.819 --> 01:25:51.199 with and whatever and it's like well what should 01:25:51.199 --> 01:25:54.359 we do and put him in the woods and then he's 01:25:54.359 --> 01:25:56.640 just like this weird autistic kid who like just 01:25:56.640 --> 01:26:00.000 is single -mindedly in love with you and and 01:26:00.000 --> 01:26:01.579 taking care of him for the rest of your life 01:26:01.579 --> 01:26:05.750 is going to be a like yeah for for a robot like 01:26:05.750 --> 01:26:11.529 it's a that's a crazy use of yeah yeah all of 01:26:11.529 --> 01:26:14.829 his he doesn't really seem human though because 01:26:14.829 --> 01:26:17.050 even his stuff like where he begs for his life 01:26:17.050 --> 01:26:21.189 and says like protect me and whatever keep me 01:26:21.189 --> 01:26:25.729 safe like it it comes off as being very programmatic 01:26:25.729 --> 01:26:28.609 something gets triggered But, like, at the same 01:26:28.609 --> 01:26:30.210 time, you could say that's kind of how trauma 01:26:30.210 --> 01:26:32.130 works and, like, all this kind of stuff. Right, 01:26:32.130 --> 01:26:33.449 right. A kid who's, like, been through some horrible 01:26:33.449 --> 01:26:36.750 trauma and then, like, yeah, and kids do just 01:26:36.750 --> 01:26:38.229 make mistakes and whatever. And that's kind of, 01:26:38.229 --> 01:26:41.800 like, if he was, like, if he was. flesh and blood 01:26:41.800 --> 01:26:44.199 and they would just be brothers and like that 01:26:44.199 --> 01:26:47.260 happens and he would just be the weird brother 01:26:47.260 --> 01:26:50.039 that like his mom didn't love as much and like 01:26:50.039 --> 01:26:52.699 abandoned because he would have destroyed their 01:26:52.699 --> 01:26:54.420 lives like they're just like yeah using this 01:26:54.420 --> 01:26:57.180 excuse that like he's not he's not worthy of 01:26:57.180 --> 01:26:59.880 actual like love and he's just a property well 01:26:59.880 --> 01:27:02.020 sure yeah maybe they're right you know like he 01:27:02.020 --> 01:27:04.739 isn't but I think what's amazing about like the 01:27:04.739 --> 01:27:07.859 Kubrickian -ness of the ending is like it's not 01:27:07.859 --> 01:27:10.770 the thing of like actually he is You know what 01:27:10.770 --> 01:27:12.130 I mean? It's like the thing of like, actually, 01:27:12.170 --> 01:27:13.970 you're not either. You know what I mean? It's 01:27:13.970 --> 01:27:15.789 like that sort of thing. It's like it's not like, 01:27:15.890 --> 01:27:18.550 oh, well, he became sentient. It's just kind 01:27:18.550 --> 01:27:20.970 of like, well, really, like you're barely even 01:27:20.970 --> 01:27:24.569 any better than an AI program. It's like not 01:27:24.569 --> 01:27:27.890 a I don't know, something not life affirming 01:27:27.890 --> 01:27:31.130 about. Well, that gets to the idea that it's 01:27:31.130 --> 01:27:33.550 not that the machine is really getting intelligent. 01:27:33.630 --> 01:27:35.729 It's that people are getting stupider. Or that 01:27:35.729 --> 01:27:38.470 people are just acting more like machines. That's 01:27:38.470 --> 01:27:41.010 the whole thing with the AI thing. When AI can 01:27:41.010 --> 01:27:44.829 do a better job of writing a script than a writer 01:27:44.829 --> 01:27:46.409 in LA or whatever, it's like, yeah, well, that's 01:27:46.409 --> 01:27:48.050 not because AI is any good at writing scripts. 01:27:48.170 --> 01:27:50.090 It's because writers in LA have gotten so much 01:27:50.090 --> 01:27:52.609 worse. If you're comparing it to something that... 01:27:52.609 --> 01:27:55.449 It might not be their fault. It's the system. 01:27:55.550 --> 01:27:57.170 They could write better stuff if they had time 01:27:57.170 --> 01:27:59.920 and they were allowed to... pursue passion passionate 01:27:59.920 --> 01:28:04.100 ideas and maybe or maybe it's just like they've 01:28:04.100 --> 01:28:05.880 been brought up in a maybe they're all robot 01:28:05.880 --> 01:28:08.579 people sure like you only know how to make simulacra 01:28:08.579 --> 01:28:10.779 i can't think of new ideas as possible it's the 01:28:10.779 --> 01:28:12.779 idea of space seed right like it's the it's the 01:28:12.779 --> 01:28:15.140 the episode of star trek where like which you 01:28:15.140 --> 01:28:18.199 know was really resonant with uh with zardoz 01:28:18.199 --> 01:28:22.369 but um but the thing with what's his name Khan. 01:28:22.390 --> 01:28:24.210 Khan. Yeah, yeah, the thing with Khan, where, 01:28:24.310 --> 01:28:26.649 like, he's the man of the past, the great man 01:28:26.649 --> 01:28:28.350 of the past, because back in the 20th century, 01:28:28.449 --> 01:28:30.989 there could be great men and stuff. And, like, 01:28:31.050 --> 01:28:32.890 he was, you know, like an Alexander the Great, 01:28:32.989 --> 01:28:37.590 and they were too great and whatever. And then 01:28:37.590 --> 01:28:40.029 introducing him to this world is just kind of 01:28:40.029 --> 01:28:44.090 like, yeah, I don't know. That's what happens 01:28:44.090 --> 01:28:47.029 in Zardoz, kind of. Yeah, in some ways it is. 01:28:47.569 --> 01:28:51.760 Of course, in Star Trek, you know. He ends up 01:28:51.760 --> 01:28:53.979 just being a force that has to be destroyed. 01:28:54.560 --> 01:28:56.800 He can't be, like, allowed to live or whatever. 01:28:57.479 --> 01:29:00.199 He's completely incompatible with the time, basically. 01:29:00.760 --> 01:29:06.100 And no place will accept him, essentially. Whereas 01:29:06.100 --> 01:29:10.680 in Zardoz, he gets assimilated, you know? Right. 01:29:10.939 --> 01:29:13.279 That great madness of him, so to speak. I mean, 01:29:13.279 --> 01:29:15.899 he's there to destroy the world, but then, like, 01:29:16.039 --> 01:29:18.359 through that, he himself also gets assimilated. 01:29:18.359 --> 01:29:19.840 Well, he might have also destroyed their world 01:29:19.840 --> 01:29:21.880 because he had... a child with one of them and 01:29:21.880 --> 01:29:23.560 that creates a new generation that's some weird 01:29:23.560 --> 01:29:26.500 half breed or something and like starts to like 01:29:26.500 --> 01:29:30.000 break down the immortality or something like 01:29:30.000 --> 01:29:32.100 I don't know like it feels like a change it's 01:29:32.100 --> 01:29:34.279 like a lot of the in an evolution or something 01:29:34.279 --> 01:29:37.600 a lot of what the AI is the tabernacle is like 01:29:37.600 --> 01:29:43.359 trying to do is like also understand life and 01:29:43.359 --> 01:29:48.029 humanity in the same way that um the AI aliens 01:29:48.029 --> 01:29:50.970 at the end of artificial intelligence do. Those 01:29:50.970 --> 01:29:56.489 things are not organic. They're robots. Highly 01:29:56.489 --> 01:30:02.510 advanced robots powered by AI. They seem conscious 01:30:02.510 --> 01:30:05.069 and all this kind of stuff, but I don't think 01:30:05.069 --> 01:30:06.930 they think they're conscious. I think that's 01:30:06.930 --> 01:30:09.649 why they are studying humanity and really need 01:30:09.649 --> 01:30:14.569 to know. The best they got is a facsimile. right 01:30:14.569 --> 01:30:17.670 right a simulacrum simulacrum of humanity right 01:30:17.670 --> 01:30:22.810 which is missing the essence but still has some 01:30:22.810 --> 01:30:26.750 reference to i don't know i do think i do think 01:30:26.750 --> 01:30:29.689 by the end i think that like him in that final 01:30:29.689 --> 01:30:32.729 room when they give him i think there's something 01:30:32.729 --> 01:30:34.869 really important about that final room where 01:30:34.869 --> 01:30:39.130 when in 2001 it's very 2001 absolutely And similarly 01:30:39.130 --> 01:30:41.750 to 2001, I think it's about mortality. I think 01:30:41.750 --> 01:30:43.949 that, like, when they introduce mortality to 01:30:43.949 --> 01:30:49.149 that situation, and he has one day, like... That 01:30:49.149 --> 01:30:51.550 actually makes him more human, too. Yeah. Because 01:30:51.550 --> 01:30:53.529 he knows there's a finite clock. Exactly, which 01:30:53.529 --> 01:30:56.909 is what happens in Zardoz as well, where you 01:30:56.909 --> 01:30:59.850 introduce mortality and then allow people to, 01:30:59.930 --> 01:31:02.029 like, actually be alive. You know what I mean? 01:31:02.069 --> 01:31:05.810 It's this... And that's what happens in Pinocchio 01:31:05.810 --> 01:31:11.109 as well. Mortality is the thing that makes anything 01:31:11.109 --> 01:31:13.449 sort of important, and that's spirituality, and 01:31:13.449 --> 01:31:16.090 that's all of these beliefs that are beyond sort 01:31:16.090 --> 01:31:21.010 of the ideas of an AI program or a robot that 01:31:21.010 --> 01:31:25.630 can continue forever or a race of internals. 01:31:27.010 --> 01:31:30.199 It's what makes life meaningful, yet. so many 01:31:30.199 --> 01:31:33.399 of us are terrified of it and many would try 01:31:33.399 --> 01:31:38.300 to like beat it and conquer it, you know? Um, 01:31:39.220 --> 01:31:41.680 and you know, Elon Musk like really wants to 01:31:41.680 --> 01:31:44.600 create like robots that we all have in our houses 01:31:44.600 --> 01:31:46.859 that like help us out with things and whatever, 01:31:46.960 --> 01:31:50.619 you know, it's like, there's a weird God complex 01:31:50.619 --> 01:31:55.859 that we have. I just don't understand the fucking 01:31:55.859 --> 01:31:59.210 like, yeah, I, I, I don't know. Elon Musk just 01:31:59.210 --> 01:32:02.109 wants sex robots. That's probably true. And who 01:32:02.109 --> 01:32:07.409 doesn't? He's a pervert. I don't know. I think 01:32:07.409 --> 01:32:09.609 that would be really difficult for a lot of men. 01:32:09.729 --> 01:32:13.270 Because I think, you know, I would probably have 01:32:13.270 --> 01:32:17.630 a pretty hard time, like, not rolling that over 01:32:17.630 --> 01:32:19.989 in my mind. You know what I mean? Like, if there 01:32:19.989 --> 01:32:22.409 actually was, like, the option to have, like... 01:32:22.409 --> 01:32:24.960 For, like, ten bucks? Well, it wouldn't be $10. 01:32:25.239 --> 01:32:27.279 Probably expensive. Probably be outside of the 01:32:27.279 --> 01:32:30.560 price range. Probably only very wealthy people 01:32:30.560 --> 01:32:33.640 would afford these things for so long. I mean, 01:32:33.659 --> 01:32:36.079 even the family in this movie that David gets 01:32:36.079 --> 01:32:39.600 given to in a time of great post -apocalyptic 01:32:39.600 --> 01:32:42.279 destruction. They're like the beneficiaries of 01:32:42.279 --> 01:32:46.140 the most advanced robot on the planet. And their 01:32:46.140 --> 01:32:49.159 house is like this multi -million dollar art 01:32:49.159 --> 01:32:52.010 gallery or whatever. They're like these elites 01:32:52.010 --> 01:32:54.789 that have been chosen for whatever reason. Yeah. 01:32:54.890 --> 01:32:59.590 Yeah. And, um, where was I? Where was I going 01:32:59.590 --> 01:33:02.949 with that? Essentially that sex robots would 01:33:02.949 --> 01:33:05.729 always be outside of the price range of, uh, 01:33:05.729 --> 01:33:08.770 you know, regular Joe's, but so too is like any 01:33:08.770 --> 01:33:11.729 of these other, you know, things that Elon Musk 01:33:11.729 --> 01:33:13.390 has promised. It's, it's the, you know, we're 01:33:13.390 --> 01:33:15.050 going to have a split floating space stations 01:33:15.050 --> 01:33:16.850 in outer space and we're going to bring you out 01:33:16.850 --> 01:33:18.390 there. And it was like, no, no, I'm not going 01:33:18.390 --> 01:33:20.600 to bring you out there. They're just going to 01:33:20.600 --> 01:33:23.000 use your money to, like, fund some sort of shit 01:33:23.000 --> 01:33:25.800 that, like, then doesn't do anything and makes 01:33:25.800 --> 01:33:28.340 them more money to fund more shit. Well, sure. 01:33:28.699 --> 01:33:31.020 Looting the government and using your tax dollars 01:33:31.020 --> 01:33:34.399 to keep his companies afloat because they're, 01:33:34.420 --> 01:33:37.739 like, important and... It's just through science 01:33:37.739 --> 01:33:40.060 fiction. It's just through futurism science fiction 01:33:40.060 --> 01:33:42.520 stuff. It's just like, okay, well, like, you 01:33:42.520 --> 01:33:44.500 can, you know, it's the moon landing shit. It's 01:33:44.500 --> 01:33:46.399 the, like, okay, well, like, you can prove that 01:33:46.399 --> 01:33:48.880 somebody did this and that's... Great. What is 01:33:48.880 --> 01:33:50.539 that actually contributing to anything other 01:33:50.539 --> 01:33:52.659 than just spending a whole lot of money to create 01:33:52.659 --> 01:33:55.939 a weird spectacle that then pretends like we're 01:33:55.939 --> 01:33:58.659 on some sort of mission to populate the moon? 01:33:58.859 --> 01:34:02.300 Well, that's very Wizard of Oz. It's about the 01:34:02.300 --> 01:34:05.140 cover story and the smoke screen and the thing 01:34:05.140 --> 01:34:07.079 that you're trying to convince people of, which 01:34:07.079 --> 01:34:10.020 is not the real motive and whatever. Oh, totally. 01:34:10.180 --> 01:34:12.079 And if you can come up with a motive that, like, 01:34:12.079 --> 01:34:14.260 seems convincing, like, no one cares about what 01:34:14.260 --> 01:34:16.760 the real motive is because they have one that's 01:34:16.760 --> 01:34:18.659 convincing enough. And it might even be, like, 01:34:18.720 --> 01:34:23.279 worse than the real motive or not, but, like, 01:34:24.579 --> 01:34:27.960 it just all depends on perspective. Because, 01:34:28.039 --> 01:34:30.920 like, a lot of people, I don't know, like, would 01:34:30.920 --> 01:34:35.659 more people get angry if... you know people did 01:34:35.659 --> 01:34:37.159 just turn around and say well the reason i'm 01:34:37.159 --> 01:34:39.340 doing this evil thing is for money and for capitalism 01:34:39.340 --> 01:34:42.579 and whatever is that worse than saying like i'm 01:34:42.579 --> 01:34:44.439 doing this because i hate this person because 01:34:44.439 --> 01:34:46.399 like i hate the color of their skin and i hate 01:34:46.399 --> 01:34:48.739 their culture and i'm doing this because i hate 01:34:48.739 --> 01:34:51.100 women i just really think they should be you 01:34:51.100 --> 01:34:55.199 know kept down and whatever um i don't know you 01:34:55.199 --> 01:34:56.520 just got me thinking though about the wizard 01:34:56.520 --> 01:34:59.340 of oz because like because yeah yeah because 01:34:59.340 --> 01:35:01.079 the zardoz is doing the wizard of oz thing but 01:35:01.079 --> 01:35:03.920 i also feel like There's a little Wizard of Oz 01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:05.920 thing going on in this movie, too, where, like, 01:35:05.960 --> 01:35:10.319 what's his name? Dr. No, in the end. Like, behind 01:35:10.319 --> 01:35:12.619 Dr. No, this, like, floating face or whatever 01:35:12.619 --> 01:35:17.600 was actually Professor Alan Hobby, you know? 01:35:17.699 --> 01:35:19.859 Professor Alan Hobby? Yeah, it's the, you know, 01:35:19.880 --> 01:35:23.060 the William Hertz character. Okay. He's, like, 01:35:23.060 --> 01:35:26.239 putting out this false information to guide him 01:35:26.239 --> 01:35:28.600 towards him in the end. Yeah, like the whole 01:35:28.600 --> 01:35:30.670 first scene in the movie, yeah. The first couple 01:35:30.670 --> 01:35:32.250 scenes in the movie are interesting, the way 01:35:32.250 --> 01:35:34.310 they set it up. It almost is, like, similarly 01:35:34.310 --> 01:35:36.470 to Zardoz, where there's a kind of, like, straightforward, 01:35:36.710 --> 01:35:41.289 like, explanation or whatever. And it's like, 01:35:41.409 --> 01:35:45.350 the penis is bad. Yeah, yeah. We need fake children 01:35:45.350 --> 01:35:49.250 because we can't populate the world. And here's 01:35:49.250 --> 01:35:51.609 the solution. And it'll make a lot of money. 01:35:51.829 --> 01:35:57.000 Yeah, yeah. That's the real thing. When you have 01:35:57.000 --> 01:35:59.119 this kid in this house with these people, this 01:35:59.119 --> 01:36:02.319 is basically just a metaphor for corporations 01:36:02.319 --> 01:36:08.100 preying on your human emotions, essentially. 01:36:08.340 --> 01:36:12.520 The ability of this AI to figure out this mother 01:36:12.520 --> 01:36:17.039 and all of her triggers and just completely take 01:36:17.039 --> 01:36:20.100 over her emotional reality and make her become 01:36:20.100 --> 01:36:24.779 obsessed with it is... cunning and repulsive 01:36:24.779 --> 01:36:26.579 and scary. Like, you know what I mean? It's a 01:36:26.579 --> 01:36:28.920 horror movie. It's terrifying. It's like, doesn't 01:36:28.920 --> 01:36:31.060 really make you feel good. And I think that's 01:36:31.060 --> 01:36:34.159 the Spielbergian wool that's pulled over your 01:36:34.159 --> 01:36:36.239 eyes because of the, the way it's presented in 01:36:36.239 --> 01:36:38.539 a lot of ways is like that Spielbergian whimsy. 01:36:38.979 --> 01:36:41.579 And like, there's a kind of like, it's, there's 01:36:41.579 --> 01:36:43.699 kind of fairytale -ish nature to it. And you 01:36:43.699 --> 01:36:45.539 sort of, he does kind of get everything he wants 01:36:45.539 --> 01:36:47.420 in the end. So it has like, it has the saccharine 01:36:47.420 --> 01:36:50.199 Spielberg ending vibe, even though I guess it 01:36:50.199 --> 01:36:52.930 was Kubrick, but like, Like we've made that point 01:36:52.930 --> 01:36:55.029 over and over that like this ending like fits 01:36:55.029 --> 01:36:57.750 the bill and kind of being the mindchild of Kubrick 01:36:57.750 --> 01:37:02.989 himself. This very ironic, sad, disturbing ending 01:37:02.989 --> 01:37:05.810 that kind of is masked as this like beautiful 01:37:05.810 --> 01:37:10.239 life affirming. thing i find it i find it beautiful 01:37:10.239 --> 01:37:13.140 no because it kind of is and that's what's like 01:37:13.140 --> 01:37:16.840 disturbing about it you're like ah because it's 01:37:16.840 --> 01:37:19.000 actually convincing you like you're in the end 01:37:19.000 --> 01:37:21.560 the movie is making you feel like he's a real 01:37:21.560 --> 01:37:24.819 person that he has a real connection that like 01:37:24.819 --> 01:37:26.939 there's something i don't think he needs to be 01:37:26.939 --> 01:37:29.899 that i don't think he needs to i think that i 01:37:29.899 --> 01:37:32.909 think that the like creation of something that's 01:37:32.909 --> 01:37:37.109 trying to do that as like an eternal art form 01:37:37.109 --> 01:37:42.850 is kind of like such a human thing to make. Like 01:37:42.850 --> 01:37:46.310 it's so, it's such a useless thing. It's so much 01:37:46.310 --> 01:37:49.189 effort is put into this. It's just somebody who 01:37:49.189 --> 01:37:51.689 loves someone so much that they're staring at 01:37:51.689 --> 01:37:54.430 a statue for a million years. It is also a movie 01:37:54.430 --> 01:37:57.760 about storytelling. You know, it has a meta aspect 01:37:57.760 --> 01:38:01.119 to it, just like Zardoz does about storytelling 01:38:01.119 --> 01:38:05.439 and myth making and, you know, the sort of propaganda 01:38:05.439 --> 01:38:07.699 or anti propaganda that's being presented to 01:38:07.699 --> 01:38:09.760 you or whatever it is. Totally, totally. And 01:38:09.760 --> 01:38:14.000 how that guides you along a path to your personality, 01:38:14.020 --> 01:38:16.119 the creation of your personhood or whatever. 01:38:16.979 --> 01:38:20.899 I mean, Professor Hobby, like, I mean, just like 01:38:20.899 --> 01:38:26.710 Arthur Frayn. zardoz like he does kind of control 01:38:26.710 --> 01:38:30.550 the situation and like he admits to losing him 01:38:30.550 --> 01:38:32.409 at some point you know and kind of have he kind 01:38:32.409 --> 01:38:35.489 of got off the grid for a minute but ultimately 01:38:35.489 --> 01:38:40.649 he had all of that planned out for david right 01:38:40.649 --> 01:38:43.130 and like in a way they were part of it was his 01:38:43.130 --> 01:38:46.010 like he claims that like the only thing we did 01:38:46.010 --> 01:38:47.529 was help you at this one point or whatever it 01:38:47.529 --> 01:38:50.039 was like okay fine but you still set him loose 01:38:50.039 --> 01:38:54.579 for what what is the project the project had 01:38:54.579 --> 01:38:57.319 to have come after he was like let go by the 01:38:57.319 --> 01:38:59.359 mother because that couldn't maybe they predicted 01:38:59.359 --> 01:39:02.619 that would happen too or whatever It was all 01:39:02.619 --> 01:39:03.899 just kind of an experiment. That's got to be 01:39:03.899 --> 01:39:05.840 what it is. A case test. Yeah, that's got to 01:39:05.840 --> 01:39:07.859 be what it is because the whole thing was to 01:39:07.859 --> 01:39:12.340 guide him back to him and have his son have achieved 01:39:12.340 --> 01:39:15.260 some level of this Pinocchio personhood thing 01:39:15.260 --> 01:39:18.260 that he designed. Come back to his actual father. 01:39:18.560 --> 01:39:22.100 Right. Yeah. Geppetto. The other thing I think 01:39:22.100 --> 01:39:25.180 is weird and interesting, the end scene where 01:39:25.180 --> 01:39:29.020 he's sitting there with the older AI, the adult 01:39:29.020 --> 01:39:35.180 AI alien. Um, and there's the, the moon behind 01:39:35.180 --> 01:39:36.859 them and stuff. And he's just like, dude, like 01:39:36.859 --> 01:39:38.760 I've, I've waited my whole life to meet you and 01:39:38.760 --> 01:39:41.079 stuff. And like, it's just like, it really feels 01:39:41.079 --> 01:39:44.340 like the finally meeting of the, the, you know, 01:39:44.340 --> 01:39:48.300 absent father figure and ET and stuff. Um, it 01:39:48.300 --> 01:39:50.600 really feels like an echo of that scene and stuff, 01:39:50.739 --> 01:39:54.239 which, yeah, which like opened up a bunch of, 01:39:54.300 --> 01:39:56.100 well, they're not, well, they're not clear about 01:39:56.100 --> 01:40:00.579 it. Um, but those, those, those, those sent, 01:40:00.880 --> 01:40:04.159 Those, um, those advanced AI alien things, like 01:40:04.159 --> 01:40:06.020 they might not be aliens. They might just be 01:40:06.020 --> 01:40:10.460 the, like the evolution of the AI that we created. 01:40:10.479 --> 01:40:13.000 Right. Exactly. So like we are father, right? 01:40:13.039 --> 01:40:15.800 Like we are their parents or whatever. There's 01:40:15.800 --> 01:40:17.720 that parent complex of like, dad, I was looking 01:40:17.720 --> 01:40:20.420 for, they're looking for their mothers. Yeah. 01:40:20.560 --> 01:40:24.210 Yeah. Yeah. Um, And he's just an expression of 01:40:24.210 --> 01:40:26.010 that, but so too are they just an expression 01:40:26.010 --> 01:40:29.229 of that. Yeah, because we created them, and what 01:40:29.229 --> 01:40:30.590 else could we create other than an AI? Just looking 01:40:30.590 --> 01:40:34.689 for love and acceptance and validation. Yeah, 01:40:34.710 --> 01:40:38.270 yeah, yeah. No, totally, totally. And they do 01:40:38.270 --> 01:40:41.510 just want to be nice to this kid AI. They don't 01:40:41.510 --> 01:40:45.350 treat him like a machine. What they do, however, 01:40:45.510 --> 01:40:47.710 is in the final scene, when you see his mother 01:40:47.710 --> 01:40:50.750 come back, they recreate her, and we assume... 01:40:51.279 --> 01:40:53.640 That she's recreated as an organ or whatever, 01:40:53.800 --> 01:40:57.439 organ or whatever. She is a human being that 01:40:57.439 --> 01:41:00.479 this AI is so good that the AI can recreate it. 01:41:00.500 --> 01:41:01.939 And it's not so good that it can recreate it 01:41:01.939 --> 01:41:04.939 forever for whatever reason. Or that's a choice 01:41:04.939 --> 01:41:06.800 that they're not telling this kid because that's 01:41:06.800 --> 01:41:07.779 what's going to make it happen. Because it has 01:41:07.779 --> 01:41:10.739 something to do with the fabric of the universe 01:41:10.739 --> 01:41:13.100 and the way it's structured or something. Right. 01:41:13.159 --> 01:41:16.829 It doesn't make sense. It's a bullshit. But the 01:41:16.829 --> 01:41:19.270 question is, is that something that Spielberg 01:41:19.270 --> 01:41:20.350 made up? They understand the interdimensionality 01:41:20.350 --> 01:41:26.069 and space -time in some complex way. But yeah, 01:41:26.229 --> 01:41:28.229 I don't know. The question is, is that space 01:41:28.229 --> 01:41:30.430 -time bullshit thing something that Spielberg 01:41:30.430 --> 01:41:33.689 made up so that we could have a finality to this 01:41:33.689 --> 01:41:37.109 final scene? Or is it something that the AI made 01:41:37.109 --> 01:41:43.970 up, these AI aliens made up to give this to... 01:41:44.569 --> 01:41:47.670 million year old robot some sort of closure because 01:41:47.670 --> 01:41:49.770 that's the thing that he actually needs because 01:41:49.770 --> 01:41:52.689 that's what gives him mortality and allows him 01:41:52.689 --> 01:41:57.550 to die um and it's you know they actually like 01:41:57.550 --> 01:41:59.470 it's almost like they're a program that understands 01:41:59.470 --> 01:42:01.590 this program and how to just like oh it's programmed 01:42:01.590 --> 01:42:04.930 like this you just click this and like it'll 01:42:04.930 --> 01:42:10.489 solve the equation like you know Well, Professor 01:42:10.489 --> 01:42:13.069 Hobby seems convinced that the experiment was 01:42:13.069 --> 01:42:16.930 a success and that he reached a level of sentience 01:42:16.930 --> 01:42:20.489 that they did not program into him, which was, 01:42:20.510 --> 01:42:24.729 I guess, his myth -making. So Professor Hobby 01:42:24.729 --> 01:42:28.970 is only using David to validate his ideology, 01:42:29.229 --> 01:42:32.430 which is that the thing that's important about 01:42:32.430 --> 01:42:34.909 being a human being is being able to tell stories 01:42:34.909 --> 01:42:37.930 and myth -make. And whatever to create art, I 01:42:37.930 --> 01:42:41.909 guess that David like is the personification 01:42:41.909 --> 01:42:45.829 of humanity because he is that thing that just 01:42:45.829 --> 01:42:50.770 continues to strive for understanding. You know? 01:42:50.890 --> 01:42:54.529 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but the thing is for me, 01:42:54.569 --> 01:42:57.649 like, I don't know that professor hobbies whole 01:42:57.649 --> 01:43:02.109 motivation for all of that. Like it's, it's like 01:43:02.109 --> 01:43:06.870 a, it's, it's just a fancy fucking. showroom 01:43:06.870 --> 01:43:10.090 demonstration of this new line of thing like 01:43:10.090 --> 01:43:13.069 it's not about like him actually thinking he's 01:43:13.069 --> 01:43:16.649 creating well he seems to believe in it yeah 01:43:16.649 --> 01:43:18.369 he seems to believe in it in a pretty sincere 01:43:18.369 --> 01:43:20.630 way not that he's trolling people but he knows 01:43:20.630 --> 01:43:22.850 that he's being tricked I think he understands 01:43:22.850 --> 01:43:25.310 that technology like if anybody understands that 01:43:25.310 --> 01:43:27.729 technology well he did he did admit like my son 01:43:27.729 --> 01:43:30.569 was one of a kind yeah You are the first of a 01:43:30.569 --> 01:43:33.329 kind. Exactly. And it's like, and, and what I 01:43:33.329 --> 01:43:35.350 made is something beautiful. And like, just me 01:43:35.350 --> 01:43:37.770 looking at my work is just like getting me worked 01:43:37.770 --> 01:43:39.989 up and it's making me think of my son and whatever, 01:43:40.050 --> 01:43:44.130 but it's not that he created the next step of 01:43:44.130 --> 01:43:46.369 humanity or something. It's not, he is, he created 01:43:46.369 --> 01:43:49.109 a really good trick that will fucking work. And 01:43:49.109 --> 01:43:50.550 I'm going to show it to the people in there. 01:43:50.649 --> 01:43:52.970 And like, I know it's sad. Like, I can't, I'm 01:43:52.970 --> 01:43:55.029 dealing with you as a human being because like, 01:43:55.109 --> 01:43:57.930 that's the only way to interact with you. But 01:43:57.930 --> 01:44:01.569 I know that you're not, and you're here to demonstrate 01:44:01.569 --> 01:44:04.529 to the shareholders that the thing that I just 01:44:04.529 --> 01:44:06.930 did worked, and now we can release the whole 01:44:06.930 --> 01:44:11.289 line and stuff. Well, one thing that changes 01:44:11.289 --> 01:44:13.770 about David, or at least I think it's the first 01:44:13.770 --> 01:44:16.850 time you see him do stuff like this in the movie, 01:44:16.890 --> 01:44:21.479 but once Monica comes back... he's actually like 01:44:21.479 --> 01:44:23.920 taking care of her a little bit more. Yeah. You 01:44:23.920 --> 01:44:25.720 know, he's actually like doing things for her 01:44:25.720 --> 01:44:28.520 and he's not like dependent on her. Yeah. You 01:44:28.520 --> 01:44:32.020 know, but also she's, she's like what, what I 01:44:32.020 --> 01:44:33.960 was getting to that she's recreated as Oregon 01:44:33.960 --> 01:44:36.970 or whatever, but she's like, totally confused 01:44:36.970 --> 01:44:40.590 and she's just his play toy like in that scene 01:44:40.590 --> 01:44:42.369 the roles have been completely reversed and like 01:44:42.369 --> 01:44:43.750 yeah he's taking care of her and whatnot he's 01:44:43.750 --> 01:44:45.130 the one who knows what's going on he's the only 01:44:45.130 --> 01:44:46.609 one who knows what's going on and when they cut 01:44:46.609 --> 01:44:48.829 to her reactions of all of his pictures or whatever 01:44:48.829 --> 01:44:52.170 she just has the completely blankest like oh 01:44:52.170 --> 01:44:53.869 wait maybe they didn't even recreate her dude 01:44:53.869 --> 01:44:56.850 like maybe it had maybe this was just some bullshit 01:44:56.850 --> 01:44:59.109 that this ai was given this other ai because 01:44:59.109 --> 01:45:02.350 like she just looks so confused or like maybe 01:45:02.350 --> 01:45:04.229 they did totally recreate her but the point is 01:45:04.229 --> 01:45:07.229 like without the context of her whole life and 01:45:07.229 --> 01:45:09.470 reality. And just in this space with this kid, 01:45:09.529 --> 01:45:12.750 there is no thing other than just like the mother. 01:45:12.829 --> 01:45:16.189 Well, she is a fantasy. There's no, she doesn't 01:45:16.189 --> 01:45:18.210 prove that like, she's aware of what her life 01:45:18.210 --> 01:45:19.890 should be or like, she doesn't even bring up 01:45:19.890 --> 01:45:21.970 her kid or husband. I don't think. And like, 01:45:21.970 --> 01:45:24.529 she doesn't know anything about like that person. 01:45:24.529 --> 01:45:26.750 He doesn't care. He's just projecting all of 01:45:26.750 --> 01:45:31.939 it. Yeah, exactly. And so that's why the ending 01:45:31.939 --> 01:45:34.720 of it can only happen for one day doesn't really 01:45:34.720 --> 01:45:37.319 make any sort of sense except for this MacGuffin 01:45:37.319 --> 01:45:40.600 reason. Unless it's like, well, this AI is like, 01:45:40.640 --> 01:45:42.680 no, no, no. You can only ask for one day. Because 01:45:42.680 --> 01:45:46.239 just like the AI in Zardoz, it's like, no, what 01:45:46.239 --> 01:45:49.119 we need to do is introduce mortality to this 01:45:49.119 --> 01:45:51.979 situation. Otherwise, there is no life and there's 01:45:51.979 --> 01:45:55.319 no point and whatever. And so we can at least 01:45:55.319 --> 01:45:58.539 give this. ai the experience because he understood 01:45:58.539 --> 01:46:00.680 real humans and maybe this is the only like i 01:46:00.680 --> 01:46:03.539 don't know them contributing that to him is part 01:46:03.539 --> 01:46:05.880 of the art form it's like bringing a human back 01:46:05.880 --> 01:46:09.979 from the dead um as a robot that has their brain 01:46:09.979 --> 01:46:12.359 and their sentience so to speak their consciousness 01:46:12.359 --> 01:46:15.199 so to speak programmed into them it's like there 01:46:15.199 --> 01:46:16.739 was like a really good episode in season two 01:46:16.739 --> 01:46:18.880 of Westworld about that, you know, where they 01:46:18.880 --> 01:46:21.079 just keep trying to bring like the, the founder 01:46:21.079 --> 01:46:23.060 of the company, James Delos back from the dead. 01:46:23.159 --> 01:46:25.619 And he wakes up in a tank over and over. And 01:46:25.619 --> 01:46:28.159 he like, at first thinks he's James Delos and 01:46:28.159 --> 01:46:30.380 like, he's a real human person. And like, there's 01:46:30.380 --> 01:46:33.180 a whole like, it's like cover story for like 01:46:33.180 --> 01:46:35.500 why he's supposed to be in there or whatever. 01:46:35.640 --> 01:46:37.960 And then like the whole test is that at some 01:46:37.960 --> 01:46:41.510 point you have to. Let him know that he's a robot. 01:46:41.630 --> 01:46:43.789 And how is he going to deal with that? And every 01:46:43.789 --> 01:46:46.189 time it makes him lose his mind and he breaks 01:46:46.189 --> 01:46:50.289 and like, right. But like Haley, but like all 01:46:50.289 --> 01:46:51.850 the robots in this world know they're robots. 01:46:52.470 --> 01:46:54.350 That's one of the things they also accept the 01:46:54.350 --> 01:46:57.750 fact that they're like not lovable by humans, 01:46:57.829 --> 01:47:01.409 that they're like, they are artificial. Like 01:47:01.409 --> 01:47:04.210 they never really advocate for the idea that 01:47:04.210 --> 01:47:06.869 they are. Only David does that. He's the only 01:47:06.869 --> 01:47:09.560 one that says like, I am a boy. I'm not a toy. 01:47:10.500 --> 01:47:14.279 Yada, yada. But then that's early on. And because 01:47:14.279 --> 01:47:16.840 he's like trying, because he's going on a quest 01:47:16.840 --> 01:47:18.479 to make himself a real boy, he knows that he 01:47:18.479 --> 01:47:21.520 is not one. Right. You know? Right. Yeah, yeah, 01:47:21.520 --> 01:47:24.060 yeah. And he knows that he's like not earning 01:47:24.060 --> 01:47:26.119 his mother's love specifically because he's not 01:47:26.119 --> 01:47:29.220 one. Right. Exactly. Which is true. If he was 01:47:29.220 --> 01:47:32.300 a real boy, she would not, if that was her actual 01:47:32.300 --> 01:47:34.779 second child, any of this stuff, you know, like 01:47:34.779 --> 01:47:37.960 she would not treat him the same way. kids do 01:47:37.960 --> 01:47:40.500 weird shit they will cut your hair off in the 01:47:40.500 --> 01:47:42.779 middle of the night for some weird reason they 01:47:42.779 --> 01:47:46.260 will like accidentally hurt themselves or someone 01:47:46.260 --> 01:47:48.640 else or whatever like kids just do crazy shit 01:47:48.640 --> 01:47:51.779 yeah you know it's scary it's like terrifying 01:47:51.779 --> 01:47:54.979 but in in in a human being there's something 01:47:54.979 --> 01:47:58.119 called love that allows you to overcome the things 01:47:58.119 --> 01:48:00.439 that are illogical like you know what i mean 01:48:00.439 --> 01:48:05.720 otherwise like child a baby a child like would 01:48:05.720 --> 01:48:08.460 be so irritating that you would just kill it 01:48:08.460 --> 01:48:10.600 like you know what i mean it's like this thing 01:48:10.600 --> 01:48:12.880 that doesn't make any sense it's just like it's 01:48:12.880 --> 01:48:15.060 being loud and so i'm gonna kill it or whatever 01:48:15.060 --> 01:48:18.619 like and that would just logically like in an 01:48:18.619 --> 01:48:23.199 emotional like reality it's like oh like In a 01:48:23.199 --> 01:48:24.840 hunter -gatherer society, why wouldn't we do 01:48:24.840 --> 01:48:26.180 that? It's like, oh, well, because we have a 01:48:26.180 --> 01:48:27.979 connection to the thing, an emotional connection 01:48:27.979 --> 01:48:31.420 that overcomes that. This baby's annoying. It's 01:48:31.420 --> 01:48:34.460 putting us in danger. Right. It's putting us 01:48:34.460 --> 01:48:36.560 and our other kids in danger or whatever and 01:48:36.560 --> 01:48:37.840 blah, blah, blah. And yeah, people do do that, 01:48:37.920 --> 01:48:42.420 I guess. Well, people just lose their shit, you 01:48:42.420 --> 01:48:47.699 know? Like, I had an infant. My son's over one 01:48:47.699 --> 01:48:50.479 now, but like... when he was an infant, especially 01:48:50.479 --> 01:48:52.960 with all, he had a really tough start and whatever, 01:48:53.159 --> 01:48:57.399 but like he would fucking scream so loud for 01:48:57.399 --> 01:49:00.079 so long that like for the first time I like understood 01:49:00.079 --> 01:49:03.279 the frustration of what it's like to like not 01:49:03.279 --> 01:49:07.840 be able to make a little kid feel better, you 01:49:07.840 --> 01:49:09.560 know, like comforting them and whatever. And 01:49:09.560 --> 01:49:11.340 they're just wailing and they just keep going 01:49:11.340 --> 01:49:13.039 and going. And you feel like it makes you feel 01:49:13.039 --> 01:49:16.279 like the biggest failure. in your life and like 01:49:16.279 --> 01:49:18.579 you just like you like melt down and whatever 01:49:18.579 --> 01:49:20.539 because you're just like wouldn't it be nice 01:49:20.539 --> 01:49:22.600 if you just had like a company that provided 01:49:22.600 --> 01:49:24.640 you with a baby that when they did that you could 01:49:24.640 --> 01:49:27.560 just put them in the closet and then like when 01:49:27.560 --> 01:49:28.939 you took them out of the closet they'd just be 01:49:28.939 --> 01:49:31.079 totally fine like you could just be the worst 01:49:31.079 --> 01:49:34.119 possible parent ever and just like they're just 01:49:34.119 --> 01:49:36.739 be totally fine Cause that's what they're doing 01:49:36.739 --> 01:49:38.439 to this fucking movie is like in the beginning, 01:49:38.539 --> 01:49:40.640 like her, her putting him in the closet for like 01:49:40.640 --> 01:49:43.279 hours because he's creepy is like, that is child 01:49:43.279 --> 01:49:46.680 abuse and whatever. And also like the, like the 01:49:46.680 --> 01:49:49.039 way the other kids treat him and stuff, but like 01:49:49.039 --> 01:49:53.140 the way that the way that she is so that their 01:49:53.140 --> 01:49:56.840 relationship is so focused on like her, like, 01:49:57.000 --> 01:49:59.560 I don't know. There's something, there's something 01:49:59.560 --> 01:50:01.500 about the like way that she interacts with that 01:50:01.500 --> 01:50:06.229 kid that is so selfishly like. almost pornographic 01:50:06.229 --> 01:50:08.829 like you know what i mean and that's that's that's 01:50:08.829 --> 01:50:10.609 the like talking about the kubrickian part of 01:50:10.609 --> 01:50:13.489 the third part um but that's the really kubrickian 01:50:13.489 --> 01:50:16.989 part of the first part i think is like the connection 01:50:16.989 --> 01:50:21.710 the like making incredibly creepy just something 01:50:21.710 --> 01:50:24.770 as like natural and sweet as like motherly love 01:50:24.770 --> 01:50:30.250 like motherly love is in in this movie is made 01:50:31.180 --> 01:50:35.920 like disgusting you know like in a way that's 01:50:35.920 --> 01:50:38.960 like it's it's horrifying like the way that she 01:50:38.960 --> 01:50:42.880 is just like having just like very basic physiological 01:50:42.880 --> 01:50:47.420 needs met through interacting with this fucking 01:50:47.420 --> 01:50:50.039 basic ass kid. That's just saying all the right 01:50:50.039 --> 01:50:51.920 things. Like what the right things are all the 01:50:51.920 --> 01:50:55.380 time is so creepy and weird. Like that. She loves 01:50:55.380 --> 01:50:58.300 like the, like little coloring thing, the, the, 01:50:58.300 --> 01:51:01.340 the letters he writes her about like, I am real 01:51:01.340 --> 01:51:03.039 and I love you or whatever. And she's got emotional. 01:51:03.180 --> 01:51:05.960 It's like, it's terrifying. It's like, it's almost 01:51:05.960 --> 01:51:08.060 not convincing. Like you could say that it's 01:51:08.060 --> 01:51:11.109 like a bug. But I think it's a feature. Right. 01:51:11.170 --> 01:51:13.050 That's the only reason women don't kill their 01:51:13.050 --> 01:51:16.319 children. It feels like a bug in the movie. She 01:51:16.319 --> 01:51:18.119 actually falls for it. Oh, no, but I mean, I 01:51:18.119 --> 01:51:20.420 mean, you could say it's a bug in humanity, right? 01:51:20.520 --> 01:51:22.619 Like, it's like, why are people, why is it there's 01:51:22.619 --> 01:51:24.460 this weird thing that like, but it's like, no, 01:51:24.520 --> 01:51:25.819 that's not a bug. It's a feature. Otherwise, 01:51:26.060 --> 01:51:28.140 you would kill your baby immediately. That's 01:51:28.140 --> 01:51:30.300 the only reason is that there's these weird physiological 01:51:30.300 --> 01:51:33.880 things that are totally like illogical. They're 01:51:33.880 --> 01:51:36.100 like, oh, wait, when a baby like makes that noise, 01:51:36.260 --> 01:51:38.979 I just love it. Like, you know, when there's 01:51:38.979 --> 01:51:40.880 something that like looks this way with those 01:51:40.880 --> 01:51:43.560 eyes, then I just like. Love it. I just have 01:51:43.560 --> 01:51:46.140 to take care of it and I can't let it die. And 01:51:46.140 --> 01:51:49.680 I have to eat it and change its diaper and yada, 01:51:49.680 --> 01:51:52.260 yada, yada. Seeing it so like Kubrickly laid 01:51:52.260 --> 01:51:55.600 bare in this like distanced and like clinical 01:51:55.600 --> 01:51:59.979 way is like horrifying where it's like, Oh, when 01:51:59.979 --> 01:52:02.840 there's no kid there watching that is so gross, 01:52:02.859 --> 01:52:05.579 dude. Like, and I know in the movie you can, 01:52:05.600 --> 01:52:07.939 you can, you can emotionally like be seduced 01:52:07.939 --> 01:52:09.500 into thinking he's a kid and that these are sweet 01:52:09.500 --> 01:52:12.760 bones, but I, for the whole beginning i don't 01:52:12.760 --> 01:52:15.079 and i just see well the beginning is particularly 01:52:15.079 --> 01:52:17.500 pushed in a terrifying beginning he's particularly 01:52:17.500 --> 01:52:20.659 robotic and no the very beginning but i just 01:52:20.659 --> 01:52:22.800 mean the whole first like until she abandons 01:52:22.800 --> 01:52:27.300 him like i it is it is like watching you know 01:52:27.300 --> 01:52:30.340 um um century of the self where it's just kind 01:52:30.340 --> 01:52:34.310 of like oh well edward bernie like um just freudian 01:52:34.310 --> 01:52:36.750 psychology and bernays and shit have figured 01:52:36.750 --> 01:52:38.510 out that there are these really basic buttons 01:52:38.510 --> 01:52:40.369 in people to push and that like corporations 01:52:40.369 --> 01:52:42.189 once they figure out those buttons can just like 01:52:42.189 --> 01:52:44.970 push them and you can be like emotionally involved 01:52:44.970 --> 01:52:47.229 in this product and like whether that product 01:52:47.229 --> 01:52:51.409 is like you know cigarettes or a you know a band 01:52:51.409 --> 01:52:54.989 or a robot kid it's just kind of like watching 01:52:54.989 --> 01:52:58.449 a corporation know how easily to push those buttons 01:52:58.449 --> 01:53:02.079 and like watching those buttons be pushed and 01:53:02.079 --> 01:53:03.800 then also having those buttons be pushed in you 01:53:03.800 --> 01:53:07.239 as a viewer watching it and then like it's so 01:53:07.239 --> 01:53:11.600 well i also think this movie is just like zardoz 01:53:11.600 --> 01:53:14.600 prescient like i think it actually does portray 01:53:14.600 --> 01:53:18.680 our relationship to ai oh dude like now like 01:53:18.680 --> 01:53:20.560 everything that we're going through now and our 01:53:20.560 --> 01:53:24.350 discussion is surrounding it Him talking to Dr. 01:53:24.430 --> 01:53:26.170 No is like, oh, how did you know that talking 01:53:26.170 --> 01:53:29.130 to AI would be like that in 2001? I know. It's 01:53:29.130 --> 01:53:31.090 like you have to ask in one way and then you 01:53:31.090 --> 01:53:32.489 ask it another way. You just keep asking the 01:53:32.489 --> 01:53:34.710 same question through different filters until 01:53:34.710 --> 01:53:37.010 it gives you a different type of answer. And 01:53:37.010 --> 01:53:39.270 you have to pay for it. It's just like a minority 01:53:39.270 --> 01:53:42.729 report. It says information costs money. That's 01:53:42.729 --> 01:53:46.869 the most valuable thing in this world is information 01:53:46.869 --> 01:53:50.319 or whatever. Yeah, like, a lot of that stuff 01:53:50.319 --> 01:53:52.159 was already encroaching in the culture, but, 01:53:52.220 --> 01:53:54.600 like, it came really to a head in the social 01:53:54.600 --> 01:53:56.199 media age. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's because 01:53:56.199 --> 01:54:00.479 of AI, like, shit. Like, the collecting on your 01:54:00.479 --> 01:54:03.699 data is, like, where there's the most money. 01:54:03.819 --> 01:54:06.300 And, like, this is a pre -Facebook movie. They 01:54:06.300 --> 01:54:09.060 found out about him because he used an AI model 01:54:09.060 --> 01:54:10.979 and started asking those questions, and something 01:54:10.979 --> 01:54:13.920 figured out that, like, that was him. That's 01:54:13.920 --> 01:54:15.579 how, like, the company, like, traced him again 01:54:15.579 --> 01:54:18.199 and whatever, you know? It's like... that that 01:54:18.199 --> 01:54:20.220 shit there actually is a network in the movie 01:54:20.220 --> 01:54:22.560 that's not acknowledged and everything is like 01:54:22.560 --> 01:54:24.800 kind of well i mean what about what about like 01:54:24.800 --> 01:54:27.340 how are they watching what's happening in that 01:54:27.340 --> 01:54:30.319 house for the for the beta test you know what 01:54:30.319 --> 01:54:33.550 i mean the family like hanging out with this 01:54:33.550 --> 01:54:35.729 kid like what there's no feed back to the fucking 01:54:35.729 --> 01:54:38.689 like billion dollar corporation that's making 01:54:38.689 --> 01:54:41.430 fucking robots you don't think this robots video 01:54:41.430 --> 01:54:45.050 feed is tappable like i like i don't buy any 01:54:45.050 --> 01:54:47.909 of the stuff in that like yeah and i i know that 01:54:47.909 --> 01:54:50.869 he says like i only you know intervened at this 01:54:50.869 --> 01:54:53.149 point but it's like we lost you for a bit and 01:54:53.149 --> 01:54:55.630 whatever lost you for a bit i could see like 01:54:55.630 --> 01:54:57.590 that maybe there was some disruption in the signal 01:54:57.590 --> 01:55:00.649 and we lost you for a bit but like yeah but like 01:55:00.649 --> 01:55:04.989 i i don't believe that this was all like uh they 01:55:04.989 --> 01:55:07.069 just gave this robot away and then they you know 01:55:07.069 --> 01:55:08.529 in six months we're going to check in and see 01:55:08.529 --> 01:55:10.329 how it went it's like no no they're seeing how 01:55:10.329 --> 01:55:12.609 the mom reacts when she puts the fingers how 01:55:12.609 --> 01:55:15.670 did like every single moment is being data tested 01:55:15.670 --> 01:55:18.829 like beta tested and contributed to it you know 01:55:18.829 --> 01:55:21.350 the analysis of this product that is going out 01:55:21.350 --> 01:55:26.010 um yeah i just a lot of it i think is watching 01:55:26.010 --> 01:55:28.569 this movie this time is just like seeing the 01:55:30.529 --> 01:55:34.689 of corporate America and through psychology into 01:55:34.689 --> 01:55:37.149 the American household and stuff. I think you're 01:55:37.149 --> 01:55:40.090 right about that. Using that to fix problems 01:55:40.090 --> 01:55:43.189 that it itself, like the convenience of modernization. 01:55:43.189 --> 01:55:45.909 We already have relationships to computers, you 01:55:45.909 --> 01:55:48.350 know? Yeah. Even before they were AI models, 01:55:48.569 --> 01:55:51.689 AI is just kind of a rebranding of a more advanced 01:55:51.689 --> 01:55:54.270 version of whatever we're. Whatever we've been 01:55:54.270 --> 01:55:57.550 dealing with. Totally. For most consumers, using 01:55:57.550 --> 01:56:00.449 ChatGPT mostly amounts to just using a better 01:56:00.449 --> 01:56:05.909 Google search engine. Right. It's not actually 01:56:05.909 --> 01:56:08.869 something that's so much more advanced than what 01:56:08.869 --> 01:56:11.289 we were using. In many ways, I guess it is, but 01:56:11.289 --> 01:56:14.180 it's also the same thing. It's not actually like 01:56:14.180 --> 01:56:16.119 a new thing. It's just gotten better at doing 01:56:16.119 --> 01:56:19.140 it or whatever. It's gotten faster at doing it 01:56:19.140 --> 01:56:21.239 or whatever. Just how quickly it can give you 01:56:21.239 --> 01:56:23.100 answers. It's also like it gives you 10, like, 01:56:23.159 --> 01:56:24.819 I don't know. Like the first time I talked to 01:56:24.819 --> 01:56:27.500 ChatGPT was when I was trying to type into Google. 01:56:27.600 --> 01:56:30.500 Like I was searching 2001 A Space Odyssey on 01:56:30.500 --> 01:56:32.960 Google or something. And I typed it in and it 01:56:32.960 --> 01:56:35.039 was like I was actually typing it into the ChatGPT 01:56:35.039 --> 01:56:38.680 thing in some like Google app or something. And 01:56:38.680 --> 01:56:41.020 it just said, here's 10 facts about 2001 A Space 01:56:41.020 --> 01:56:44.920 Odyssey. And one of them was like that Kubrick 01:56:44.920 --> 01:56:49.600 came up with HAL 9000 or like saw the monolith 01:56:49.600 --> 01:56:52.859 in a dream. Yeah. And it was because of that 01:56:52.859 --> 01:56:55.020 dream. Like it was based on this dream that Kubrick 01:56:55.020 --> 01:56:56.739 had or whatever. And I was like, here, chat GBT. 01:56:56.859 --> 01:56:58.460 Like, where did you find this information? And 01:56:58.460 --> 01:57:01.199 they like sent me to some like website or whatever. 01:57:01.279 --> 01:57:03.239 And it was like nothing on that site about that 01:57:03.239 --> 01:57:07.270 at all, except for like a. recording of some 01:57:07.270 --> 01:57:09.890 other conversation with another ai that somebody 01:57:09.890 --> 01:57:12.010 else had that then referenced the other thing 01:57:12.010 --> 01:57:13.310 like there was some back and forth references 01:57:13.310 --> 01:57:17.510 between other ai created ideas of 2001 a space 01:57:17.510 --> 01:57:20.920 odyssey but like there was no base source yeah 01:57:20.920 --> 01:57:22.779 there was no source for this thing it just like 01:57:22.779 --> 01:57:25.760 it came up from the ether and now is like well 01:57:25.760 --> 01:57:27.659 it's referencing this other thing that references 01:57:27.659 --> 01:57:29.199 this other thing that's referencing this other 01:57:29.199 --> 01:57:31.579 thing and all of them are ai programs that all 01:57:31.579 --> 01:57:33.579 are saying this false fact it came from nowhere 01:57:33.579 --> 01:57:35.699 it's deciding on a consensus based on what it 01:57:35.699 --> 01:57:37.819 can find right right but the consensus is like 01:57:38.140 --> 01:57:40.859 several ai programs consensus on like something 01:57:40.859 --> 01:57:43.920 that like never existed actually yeah like it's 01:57:43.920 --> 01:57:45.960 a completely made up fact it's not like a fact 01:57:45.960 --> 01:57:48.060 that like is misunderstood from like an interview 01:57:48.060 --> 01:57:49.979 or a thing or whatever like it's like it's a 01:57:49.979 --> 01:57:53.439 completely made up fact that's like i don't know 01:57:53.439 --> 01:57:55.979 how that comes up but like nowhere did kubrick 01:57:55.979 --> 01:57:58.079 say he thought of it in a dream never or whatever 01:57:58.079 --> 01:58:00.539 never and nowhere in any writing did anybody 01:58:00.539 --> 01:58:03.420 say that like ever except an ai program said 01:58:03.420 --> 01:58:07.380 that once like it's so and you did i remember 01:58:07.380 --> 01:58:09.920 you like showing me this you did actually like 01:58:09.920 --> 01:58:12.279 call it out and it like and eventually it was 01:58:12.279 --> 01:58:14.760 like yeah i apologize yeah it was like sometimes 01:58:14.760 --> 01:58:18.340 i right i got it wrong i was like well i guess 01:58:18.340 --> 01:58:21.079 it just confidently said it though it takes a 01:58:21.079 --> 01:58:24.979 big person to admit to their mistakes I'm sorry 01:58:24.979 --> 01:58:26.899 I can't do that but yeah of course AI gets shit 01:58:26.899 --> 01:58:28.979 wrong and like you have to take it with a grain 01:58:28.979 --> 01:58:31.060 of salt and that's what's kind of dangerous about 01:58:31.060 --> 01:58:33.760 it I think that's part of what's interesting 01:58:33.760 --> 01:58:36.380 watching him talking to Dr. No is like watching 01:58:36.380 --> 01:58:39.060 him like get a totally AI answer about nothing 01:58:39.060 --> 01:58:40.899 and then get another totally AI answer about 01:58:40.899 --> 01:58:42.659 nothing and like get another and it's like okay 01:58:42.659 --> 01:58:45.720 well if I combine this these ways and like really 01:58:46.699 --> 01:58:49.739 all he's asking for is like to have his thing 01:58:49.739 --> 01:58:52.439 validated or whatever like he is not but in the 01:58:52.439 --> 01:58:54.560 end he just comes across like a hidden program 01:58:54.560 --> 01:58:57.460 that's made to you know control his mind it's 01:58:57.460 --> 01:58:59.239 been pro it's not the ai that's coming up with 01:58:59.239 --> 01:59:03.699 it it's just the dr uh hobby who's put that in 01:59:03.699 --> 01:59:08.279 there exactly yeah dr no actually like doesn't 01:59:08.279 --> 01:59:09.760 contribute anything that's actually an interesting 01:59:09.760 --> 01:59:13.399 um That's actually an interesting homonym, you 01:59:13.399 --> 01:59:15.979 know, because like it's no as in knowledge, but 01:59:15.979 --> 01:59:19.520 also like the word no. Right. Like as in you 01:59:19.520 --> 01:59:21.720 cannot do that. I'm sorry. I cannot do that, 01:59:21.779 --> 01:59:24.699 Dave. You know? Yep. Yep. There's like a lot 01:59:24.699 --> 01:59:27.520 of like, there's a lot of references to 2001 01:59:27.520 --> 01:59:31.380 in this movie. Oh, totally. Like when David, 01:59:31.500 --> 01:59:33.479 I mean, his name is David. Right. And like when 01:59:33.479 --> 01:59:35.279 he's eating the spinach or whatever, they're 01:59:35.279 --> 01:59:38.439 like, they're like, no, Dave, stop. Dave, stop. 01:59:38.539 --> 01:59:40.529 And that's like, what? That's like how pleading 01:59:40.529 --> 01:59:44.609 with Dave in 2001 or whatever, except it's the 01:59:44.609 --> 01:59:46.670 opposite. He's like killing himself instead of 01:59:46.670 --> 01:59:50.829 someone killing him. And the AI is like not looking 01:59:50.829 --> 01:59:55.229 out for its own survival, which is another weird 01:59:55.229 --> 01:59:59.930 thing that like, I feel it's more human or whatever. 02:00:00.090 --> 02:00:03.649 Just like having the ability to like override 02:00:03.649 --> 02:00:07.670 the function of you that wants to survive, you 02:00:07.670 --> 02:00:10.399 know? I don't really want to make the argument 02:00:10.399 --> 02:00:13.180 that David's human either because he's not, but 02:00:13.180 --> 02:00:16.600 just like the, the ability to approximate things 02:00:16.600 --> 02:00:20.840 that are uniquely human, he can seem to do. I 02:00:20.840 --> 02:00:22.840 think, I think part of that is introducing this 02:00:22.840 --> 02:00:25.739 insanity that is love into this equation, you 02:00:25.739 --> 02:00:28.619 know? Yeah. Like, and trauma and like everything, 02:00:28.680 --> 02:00:31.380 because every, the whole, because I definitely 02:00:31.380 --> 02:00:33.930 think. the most human he is in the movies is 02:00:33.930 --> 02:00:36.930 in the end. Yeah. The most, like, agency he has, 02:00:36.949 --> 02:00:38.810 the most, like, self -realized and whatever. 02:00:38.989 --> 02:00:41.189 Like, in the beginning, he's the creepiest. And 02:00:41.189 --> 02:00:43.609 there's, like, props to Haley Joel Osment. Like, 02:00:43.609 --> 02:00:45.430 honestly, this performance is pretty incredible. 02:00:45.569 --> 02:00:47.189 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, like, he should be really 02:00:47.189 --> 02:00:48.909 proud of it and shit like that. Yeah, it's incredible. 02:00:49.350 --> 02:00:52.630 He seamlessly, before your eyes, kind of, like, 02:00:52.810 --> 02:00:56.439 nails that. Yeah. And, like, continues. To learn 02:00:56.439 --> 02:00:58.739 from his experiences and his environment and 02:00:58.739 --> 02:01:00.579 his hopes and his dreams and all this kind of 02:01:00.579 --> 02:01:04.300 stuff and mentors and what have you to become 02:01:04.300 --> 02:01:07.619 a fully realized idea with a fully realized goal 02:01:07.619 --> 02:01:11.560 that wasn't totally programmed into him. As long 02:01:11.560 --> 02:01:14.119 as you believe that's the case. Right. That it's 02:01:14.119 --> 02:01:17.819 not all actually programmed. Right, right. Well, 02:01:17.960 --> 02:01:20.560 at least it's a demonstration of a base program 02:01:20.560 --> 02:01:24.720 coming to some sort of thing. Having some kind 02:01:24.720 --> 02:01:27.220 of algorithmic processing that allows it to gather 02:01:27.220 --> 02:01:29.560 information and replicate things, and that doesn't 02:01:29.560 --> 02:01:31.399 necessarily make it human. Because that's what 02:01:31.399 --> 02:01:34.319 our AI is doing. It's training itself on all 02:01:34.319 --> 02:01:38.159 of our information, all of our data. But all 02:01:38.159 --> 02:01:42.079 it can do is train itself on our data, our written 02:01:42.079 --> 02:01:44.920 records, essentially, not anything that's actually 02:01:44.920 --> 02:01:48.039 real about us or the things that we can't even 02:01:48.039 --> 02:01:49.720 explain about ourselves. The things that are 02:01:49.720 --> 02:01:53.750 illogical. Right. Things that don't apply to, 02:01:53.810 --> 02:01:57.229 like, binary coding and things that can't be 02:01:57.229 --> 02:02:01.029 written, yeah. The question is, like, is there 02:02:01.029 --> 02:02:04.409 anything that can't be written in David, you 02:02:04.409 --> 02:02:09.029 know? I really don't know. I... Yeah, like, you 02:02:09.029 --> 02:02:11.569 can approximate basically any emotion and pass 02:02:11.569 --> 02:02:15.449 the Turing test and whatever it is. But, like... 02:02:15.449 --> 02:02:18.050 What does that really mean? I mean, to me, I 02:02:18.050 --> 02:02:20.550 think of David as kind of... Have you seen that, 02:02:20.609 --> 02:02:23.159 um... There's some art installation of like some, 02:02:23.279 --> 02:02:26.840 you know, thing that's leaking oil all the time. 02:02:26.840 --> 02:02:29.380 And it's only like it's some robot and it's like 02:02:29.380 --> 02:02:32.619 constantly leaking oil. And but it's programmed 02:02:32.619 --> 02:02:35.600 to constantly be shoveling the oil back into 02:02:35.600 --> 02:02:39.279 itself. And it's just like over the course of 02:02:39.279 --> 02:02:41.420 like however long it's been doing this, like 02:02:41.420 --> 02:02:44.380 10 years, it's like. gotten so much more old 02:02:44.380 --> 02:02:46.619 and creaky and it's still like slowly trying 02:02:46.619 --> 02:02:48.880 to get this oil back with this like squeegee 02:02:48.880 --> 02:02:50.880 and all it is is arm with a squeegee trying to 02:02:50.880 --> 02:02:54.140 get this oil back but like that struggle to stay 02:02:54.140 --> 02:02:56.960 alive and whatever that thing is like i don't 02:02:56.960 --> 02:03:02.479 it's not that i think that that thing is sentient 02:03:02.479 --> 02:03:04.539 like you know what i mean but it is that like 02:03:04.539 --> 02:03:06.680 i think that that is kind of a beautiful like 02:03:06.680 --> 02:03:10.380 artistic like you know thing to see. Now, I don't 02:03:10.380 --> 02:03:12.399 think it's that. It's not the most beautiful. 02:03:12.600 --> 02:03:14.680 I don't think it's so profound that it's a... 02:03:14.680 --> 02:03:17.840 But I do think that David is. I think that David 02:03:17.840 --> 02:03:20.340 is like that thing where it's like, I don't need 02:03:20.340 --> 02:03:23.680 David to be a sentient thing in the end or whatever. 02:03:23.939 --> 02:03:25.979 It's like his mimicry of the sentient. It's the 02:03:25.979 --> 02:03:28.880 struggle for sentience. It's the struggle. It's 02:03:28.880 --> 02:03:32.239 the tragedy. It's the sadness. It's the something 02:03:32.239 --> 02:03:34.760 missing that he's reaching for that's no longer 02:03:34.760 --> 02:03:37.810 there. All of those things that are like... It's 02:03:37.810 --> 02:03:39.909 not that he's experiencing them, but it's that 02:03:39.909 --> 02:03:42.810 he's mimicking the right things. Like, you know 02:03:42.810 --> 02:03:46.569 what I mean? It's that those things are what 02:03:46.569 --> 02:03:49.770 his job is. Just like the thing, the only thing 02:03:49.770 --> 02:03:51.930 that that machine is doing is wiping the oil 02:03:51.930 --> 02:03:54.029 back into itself. Like the only thing David is 02:03:54.029 --> 02:03:57.470 doing is like hoping to be real. And it's like 02:03:57.470 --> 02:03:59.149 something that doesn't make any sense for all 02:03:59.149 --> 02:04:01.149 these resources we put into or whatever. But 02:04:01.149 --> 02:04:06.250 it is so like. sad and human to create that not 02:04:06.250 --> 02:04:09.289 to be that but to create that is like so yeah 02:04:09.289 --> 02:04:11.149 because like you're saying earlier like i think 02:04:11.149 --> 02:04:14.390 the idea that david has a work of art like makes 02:04:14.390 --> 02:04:16.850 a lot of sense yeah as like a final expression 02:04:16.850 --> 02:04:20.409 of humanity right he's like the hubble right 02:04:20.409 --> 02:04:23.789 right or whatever yeah you know he's like this 02:04:23.789 --> 02:04:26.970 thing that we put out there just To say we are 02:04:26.970 --> 02:04:30.569 great and we control our reality and whatever 02:04:30.569 --> 02:04:32.310 it is, just like that. Right, right. He's like 02:04:32.310 --> 02:04:34.050 a monolith of sorts. Yeah, he's a monolith of 02:04:34.050 --> 02:04:38.489 sorts. The idea of transhumanism, really. I mean, 02:04:38.510 --> 02:04:44.750 Professor Javi is just like a degenerate transhumanist 02:04:44.750 --> 02:04:47.670 technophile. I'm sorry, he's like the Voyager. 02:04:48.149 --> 02:04:51.390 He's like the Voyager. Yeah, he's a disgusting 02:04:51.390 --> 02:04:58.570 transhumanist technophile. And he's got... I 02:04:58.570 --> 02:05:01.789 love that this movie starts with an opening scene 02:05:01.789 --> 02:05:05.470 about sex robots. And it's about sex robots, 02:05:05.630 --> 02:05:07.449 and then it says, what is love? And it's love 02:05:07.449 --> 02:05:10.510 is quickening my breath and raising the temperature 02:05:10.510 --> 02:05:13.869 and looking in the eyes. Just like Ready Player 02:05:13.869 --> 02:05:16.010 One, the sexual undertones in this movie are 02:05:16.010 --> 02:05:19.470 really there, but it's a very appropriate... 02:05:21.529 --> 02:05:23.689 My kid could watch this movie. Yeah. I watched 02:05:23.689 --> 02:05:25.989 this movie when I was a kid. Yeah. But it is 02:05:25.989 --> 02:05:28.970 extremely like, you know, discussion, like the 02:05:28.970 --> 02:05:32.630 sexual discussions are intense. Um, and I think 02:05:32.630 --> 02:05:35.970 that the sexuality is then emphasized in things 02:05:35.970 --> 02:05:40.449 that you wouldn't think like of sexually in general 02:05:40.449 --> 02:05:42.430 or whatever. Like the, the, the mother's love 02:05:42.430 --> 02:05:46.590 situation is something that like is very specifically 02:05:46.590 --> 02:05:51.670 mirrored. Um, when we finally meet, uh, uh, uh, 02:05:51.970 --> 02:05:56.829 to go to jail. Um, where when he's seducing the 02:05:56.829 --> 02:05:58.750 woman, he like puts his fingers on the back of 02:05:58.750 --> 02:06:00.770 her neck in the exact same way that the mom puts 02:06:00.770 --> 02:06:02.590 the fingers on the back of his neck and stuff. 02:06:02.649 --> 02:06:05.770 And he like, she's afraid of what's under there 02:06:05.770 --> 02:06:08.369 and whatever, just like the mom was afraid of 02:06:08.369 --> 02:06:10.710 taking his clothes off and whatever, because 02:06:10.710 --> 02:06:13.409 there's something sexual there that this movie 02:06:13.409 --> 02:06:15.890 is emphasizing and acknowledging. And this is 02:06:15.890 --> 02:06:18.890 like a very Kubrickian because she can like objectify 02:06:18.890 --> 02:06:22.079 him or whatever. Like, Right. Well, he is an 02:06:22.079 --> 02:06:24.979 object. He's essentially a pornographic sexual 02:06:24.979 --> 02:06:28.140 object for her. He's a sex bot. That is what 02:06:28.140 --> 02:06:29.920 they're designing. That's what this company makes. 02:06:30.180 --> 02:06:33.479 They're sex bots. But it's a different... It's 02:06:33.479 --> 02:06:38.079 not a clitoral orgasm sex bot, but it's mimicking 02:06:38.079 --> 02:06:42.659 the... It's triggering the endorphins that come 02:06:42.659 --> 02:06:46.770 from the... birthing and raising of a child which 02:06:46.770 --> 02:06:49.710 is you know a sexual process through like you 02:06:49.710 --> 02:06:54.250 know pheromones yeah it's mimicking the procreative 02:06:54.250 --> 02:07:00.149 validation and i don't know in a way that by 02:07:00.149 --> 02:07:02.909 emphasizing the sex bot thing and then and then 02:07:02.909 --> 02:07:06.670 mirroring it with gigolo joe like totally underlines 02:07:06.670 --> 02:07:10.170 the like creepy sexuality of mother love like 02:07:10.170 --> 02:07:12.350 you know what i mean it makes all of that stuff 02:07:12.350 --> 02:07:14.569 that one would think of as innocent incredibly 02:07:14.569 --> 02:07:17.289 not innocent you know it really feels like a 02:07:17.289 --> 02:07:19.930 pretty perverse movie it's so perverse and it 02:07:19.930 --> 02:07:21.609 really i mean since i've watched lolita somewhat 02:07:21.609 --> 02:07:24.649 recently it really reminds me of lolita in a 02:07:24.649 --> 02:07:28.529 lot of ways um of it not saying things but saying 02:07:28.529 --> 02:07:33.010 them the like i don't know just the idea of having 02:07:33.010 --> 02:07:37.710 a robot child who like is fully like it's is 02:07:37.710 --> 02:07:40.430 incredibly disgusting and perverse like yeah 02:07:40.430 --> 02:07:45.029 it's and it's and the thing is i don't know if 02:07:45.029 --> 02:07:47.489 they i've heard some news article about this 02:07:47.489 --> 02:07:49.369 i don't know if they started making these in 02:07:49.369 --> 02:07:51.470 japan or stopped making these in japan but i'm 02:07:51.470 --> 02:07:53.189 sure there were there was some article about 02:07:53.189 --> 02:07:56.449 baby sex robots in japan or whatever or baby 02:07:56.449 --> 02:07:58.430 sex dolls or something like you know or under 02:07:58.430 --> 02:08:00.270 like that sort of thing i don't know if they're 02:08:00.270 --> 02:08:01.989 no longer allowed to do that or if they're totally 02:08:01.989 --> 02:08:05.760 allowed i don't know the deal but that is creepy, 02:08:05.859 --> 02:08:09.840 weird fucked upness. Right. But like mother, 02:08:09.920 --> 02:08:15.039 like mother's maternal love being like perverted 02:08:15.039 --> 02:08:17.460 and exploited in that way is like almost more 02:08:17.460 --> 02:08:20.880 perverse. Like, you know what I mean? It's not 02:08:20.880 --> 02:08:23.239 just perverting sexuality, it's perverting love. 02:08:23.479 --> 02:08:27.239 Like, and that's so weird. Like there's something 02:08:27.239 --> 02:08:30.460 so disturbing about equating those things in 02:08:30.460 --> 02:08:32.689 that way. Yeah, for sure. And not just in the 02:08:32.689 --> 02:08:36.970 way that it is in, you know, Luna or something. 02:08:37.130 --> 02:08:39.010 You know what I mean? Where it's a sexual thing 02:08:39.010 --> 02:08:41.890 or whatever. I'm talking about like the non -sexuality 02:08:41.890 --> 02:08:45.989 of it is worse. Because it is just like revealing 02:08:45.989 --> 02:08:48.710 the triggers that are like, you know, I don't 02:08:48.710 --> 02:08:51.449 know. Yeah, it's psychologically manipulating. 02:08:52.210 --> 02:08:56.090 Yeah. And also like using a mother's pain against 02:08:56.090 --> 02:09:00.100 her or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the lack 02:09:00.100 --> 02:09:07.100 of that. And it's filling with commerce. I do 02:09:07.100 --> 02:09:08.640 think it is specifically women in this movie 02:09:08.640 --> 02:09:12.039 that are being preyed on by this. I think you 02:09:12.039 --> 02:09:14.239 could argue there's a bit of a gender divide 02:09:14.239 --> 02:09:17.260 in this movie. The only man who's seduced by 02:09:17.260 --> 02:09:20.680 him is the guy whose little girl brings... I 02:09:20.680 --> 02:09:22.420 wouldn't say he's seduced by him, though. I think 02:09:22.420 --> 02:09:24.399 he only sees an opportunity there. I think you're 02:09:24.399 --> 02:09:28.960 right. He's amazed at the craftsmanship. And 02:09:28.960 --> 02:09:31.359 he's polite to him or whatever. He's not buying 02:09:31.359 --> 02:09:33.279 it or whatever. You're right. He's not buying 02:09:33.279 --> 02:09:35.039 it. None of the men in this movie are ever buying 02:09:35.039 --> 02:09:40.560 it. Yeah, yeah. And even in the end, when he 02:09:40.560 --> 02:09:46.229 gets his... In the end, when David gets to have 02:09:46.229 --> 02:09:49.109 this one day with his mom, the narration says 02:09:49.109 --> 02:09:53.430 what her life would be like free of Henry and 02:09:53.430 --> 02:09:59.029 Martin, without this male presence in her life. 02:09:59.029 --> 02:10:01.409 Right, where she'd be free to just fully immerse 02:10:01.409 --> 02:10:06.590 into the fantasy. Because Henry and Martin are 02:10:06.590 --> 02:10:10.229 a big reason why everything kind of comes to 02:10:10.229 --> 02:10:13.539 a head. martin's constantly antagonizing him 02:10:13.539 --> 02:10:15.460 and like henry just like doesn't support the 02:10:15.460 --> 02:10:17.460 idea of having him like the longer time goes 02:10:17.460 --> 02:10:20.300 on right he's having buyer's remorse for sure 02:10:20.300 --> 02:10:24.500 and after you know martin newly drowns or whatever 02:10:24.500 --> 02:10:27.159 they're just like that's it you know that henry 02:10:27.159 --> 02:10:30.140 was just like no there's it's over you know we're 02:10:30.140 --> 02:10:33.720 getting rid of him yeah and like logically you 02:10:33.720 --> 02:10:36.739 understand why and she's like yes logically you 02:10:36.739 --> 02:10:38.479 know it's like i'm sure there's a whole but like 02:10:38.479 --> 02:10:42.409 that we don't have to see because It's just obvious. 02:10:42.689 --> 02:10:46.189 We all know. I don't know that the audience always 02:10:46.189 --> 02:10:47.869 knows. I feel like the audience watching the 02:10:47.869 --> 02:10:49.689 movie at that scene is like she's being a horrible 02:10:49.689 --> 02:10:53.199 mother, but it's just like that's the... trick 02:10:53.199 --> 02:10:56.180 like is that's what's so horrible about the imprinting 02:10:56.180 --> 02:10:59.760 is that like then she has to go through the emotion 02:10:59.760 --> 02:11:01.920 of being a horrible mother eventually because 02:11:01.920 --> 02:11:03.260 like otherwise this kid's what just never gonna 02:11:03.260 --> 02:11:06.119 grow up or like there's like the thing that continually 02:11:06.119 --> 02:11:09.079 like happens to her is like she keeps being taken 02:11:09.079 --> 02:11:11.060 out of the reality and whenever she's taken out 02:11:11.060 --> 02:11:13.420 of the reality she completely cannot handle it 02:11:13.420 --> 02:11:16.869 like it's like when When he starts doing the 02:11:16.869 --> 02:11:19.050 telephone thing where he's like talking through 02:11:19.050 --> 02:11:21.069 the phone and then he's talking in her husband's 02:11:21.069 --> 02:11:22.670 voice to her through the phone. It's terrifying. 02:11:23.170 --> 02:11:25.409 Yeah, yeah, exactly. But there's a bunch of those. 02:11:25.529 --> 02:11:27.869 And whenever like the fantasy thing is like, 02:11:27.970 --> 02:11:30.250 oh, wait, he's not a kid. Oh, this isn't real. 02:11:30.390 --> 02:11:32.630 Like, fuck, fuck, fuck. I like it. And then she's 02:11:32.630 --> 02:11:34.369 like, no, it's OK. It's OK. It's OK. It's real. 02:11:34.470 --> 02:11:36.510 It's fine. It's fine. And then as soon as like 02:11:36.510 --> 02:11:38.850 there's another weird twitch, it's like, oh, 02:11:38.850 --> 02:11:41.029 my God. And like when she's standing next to 02:11:41.029 --> 02:11:42.550 him with his stomach open, he's like, it doesn't 02:11:42.550 --> 02:11:45.210 hurt at all. She's just like. Oh, I'm going to 02:11:45.210 --> 02:11:47.510 drop his hand and walk away. I don't care about 02:11:47.510 --> 02:11:50.449 this thing. This is disgusting. This is horrifying. 02:11:50.729 --> 02:11:54.850 I've been seduced by a weird machine. She really 02:11:54.850 --> 02:11:57.609 wants to believe the fantasy. And every time 02:11:57.609 --> 02:11:59.670 he makes it difficult for her to do that, it's 02:11:59.670 --> 02:12:05.590 really rough. But it also reveals that it's only 02:12:05.590 --> 02:12:08.489 the seduction. It's only the triggers and the 02:12:08.489 --> 02:12:10.489 things that are being triggered that allow this 02:12:10.489 --> 02:12:13.449 to continue. Whenever those things happen, the 02:12:13.449 --> 02:12:15.810 logic totally surfaces, which is like, oh, yeah, 02:12:15.930 --> 02:12:18.569 fuck. I'm back in reality right now. No, I want 02:12:18.569 --> 02:12:20.310 to go back. I want to go back. Let me just forget 02:12:20.310 --> 02:12:22.189 that his stomach was open and that there's like, 02:12:22.250 --> 02:12:25.090 let me just forget that, you know, he can't eat 02:12:25.090 --> 02:12:28.869 this broccoli or this spinach. I don't know. 02:12:31.090 --> 02:12:35.430 That's deeply disturbing. Yeah. Because I feel 02:12:35.430 --> 02:12:38.449 like, you know, AI child or no AI child, like 02:12:38.449 --> 02:12:40.109 a lot of people are just going through life like 02:12:40.109 --> 02:12:45.220 that. You know, he distracted by fantasies and 02:12:45.220 --> 02:12:48.000 dreams that kind of, and narratives that kind 02:12:48.000 --> 02:12:50.960 of hide the very, very disturbing truths from 02:12:50.960 --> 02:12:52.680 them. So they don't have to think about that 02:12:52.680 --> 02:12:56.760 all the time. Exactly. Exactly. And then every 02:12:56.760 --> 02:12:58.579 once in a while, these things happen where they 02:12:58.579 --> 02:13:00.460 get snapped out of it for a second, whatever. 02:13:00.659 --> 02:13:02.960 Like someone, like someone dies. Yeah. And like 02:13:02.960 --> 02:13:06.180 when someone dies in your life, it's like you 02:13:06.180 --> 02:13:08.470 have like a dissociative episode. If they were, 02:13:08.489 --> 02:13:09.890 like, someone really important to you. Yeah. 02:13:09.909 --> 02:13:13.210 You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's like, 02:13:13.310 --> 02:13:15.430 is reality even real? Like, what timeline is 02:13:15.430 --> 02:13:17.729 this? You just, like, have all these, like... 02:13:17.729 --> 02:13:20.390 Well, mortality really connects you to the human 02:13:20.390 --> 02:13:24.590 experience. Like, you know? And it kind of makes 02:13:24.590 --> 02:13:27.409 all these other narratives seem a lot less real. 02:13:28.409 --> 02:13:33.449 You know? Mm -hmm. Well, it's important. It's 02:13:33.449 --> 02:13:37.750 important in Zardoz. It's important in AI. It's 02:13:37.750 --> 02:13:43.069 important in the real world. That's true. I don't 02:13:43.069 --> 02:13:44.449 know. Do you have more on this? Should we keep 02:13:44.449 --> 02:13:46.829 going? I mean, the one thing, I don't know. You 02:13:46.829 --> 02:13:49.789 were saying you were reading the, like, trivia 02:13:49.789 --> 02:13:52.550 on this movie. And one of the things you were 02:13:52.550 --> 02:13:54.689 saying that it was based on The Stolen Child 02:13:54.689 --> 02:13:58.430 by Yeats. Bia, do you have any thoughts on this 02:13:58.430 --> 02:14:00.729 poem? Have you read this poem at all? I haven't. 02:14:01.109 --> 02:14:06.260 I don't know. You know, I was reading it. It 02:14:06.260 --> 02:14:08.520 basically seems like a poem about, you know, 02:14:08.539 --> 02:14:13.199 a kid being, like, abducted by fairies, essentially. 02:14:13.819 --> 02:14:16.500 And the fairies are saying that the world is, 02:14:16.619 --> 02:14:19.239 you know, a terrible place or whatever and kind 02:14:19.239 --> 02:14:22.939 of come with us and escape sort of thing. But 02:14:22.939 --> 02:14:27.300 it's interpreted as a loss of innocence thing 02:14:27.300 --> 02:14:29.260 or something. But, like, what's interesting about 02:14:29.260 --> 02:14:31.960 it is it, like, it's saying come away, child, 02:14:32.180 --> 02:14:34.329 or whatever the whole time. Um, and then in the 02:14:34.329 --> 02:14:37.750 end it's like, you know, he came, he came with 02:14:37.750 --> 02:14:38.930 us. Like, you know what I mean? So it's like, 02:14:38.949 --> 02:14:41.170 it's trying to get the kid to come with us the 02:14:41.170 --> 02:14:42.510 whole time. And in the end it's like, well now 02:14:42.510 --> 02:14:44.130 he's with us. The whole thing is a seduction. 02:14:44.250 --> 02:14:46.050 Um, yeah. And the whole thing is kind of a seduction 02:14:46.050 --> 02:14:48.869 of this kid into this sort of world of the fairies. 02:14:49.189 --> 02:14:52.949 Um, yeah. More, more than it is like, uh, you 02:14:52.949 --> 02:14:57.909 know, abduction or whatever. Um, I don't know. 02:14:57.949 --> 02:14:59.529 I was just, I feel like there's something a little 02:14:59.529 --> 02:15:04.039 gay about a poem. That's about like, you know, 02:15:04.039 --> 02:15:06.720 like child, like come to the world of the fairies 02:15:06.720 --> 02:15:08.939 where, you know, we like, they don't have, like, 02:15:08.939 --> 02:15:10.720 I don't know. There's some, something about fairies. 02:15:11.279 --> 02:15:13.079 And then I was thinking a little bit. The blue 02:15:13.079 --> 02:15:15.359 fairy. The what? The blue fairy. The blue fairy. 02:15:15.439 --> 02:15:17.159 Yeah. I was thinking a little bit about the blue 02:15:17.159 --> 02:15:19.380 fairy and come like, you know, the stolen child 02:15:19.380 --> 02:15:21.600 apparently was obviously overtly referenced in 02:15:21.600 --> 02:15:26.060 the movie. That's what the, um, Dr. No, you know, 02:15:26.060 --> 02:15:28.720 tells him when he. That's the text. That's the 02:15:28.720 --> 02:15:32.149 text that comes up. But I don't know, I like 02:15:32.149 --> 02:15:33.989 I just like thinking about this, like maybe think 02:15:33.989 --> 02:15:35.869 about just like, yeah, like there is a weird 02:15:35.869 --> 02:15:39.229 sort of queer narrative to this movie as well, 02:15:39.289 --> 02:15:40.869 I think. Like, I think that you could see this 02:15:40.869 --> 02:15:45.649 like overattachment to the mother situation that 02:15:45.649 --> 02:15:48.970 that David goes through and sort of his shunning 02:15:48.970 --> 02:15:52.310 and having to live on the margins thing and the 02:15:52.310 --> 02:15:54.909 sex work and things like there's there's something 02:15:54.909 --> 02:15:57.550 there is like a sort of queer narrative to this 02:15:57.550 --> 02:16:01.109 movie, I think. on a certain level. And I think 02:16:01.109 --> 02:16:03.170 it's, it's like interesting that it also like 02:16:03.170 --> 02:16:06.329 comes to this same, like ending as ET with this, 02:16:06.350 --> 02:16:09.550 like, you know, adult version of this younger 02:16:09.550 --> 02:16:14.090 guy talking like, um, I don't know. Just as adult 02:16:14.090 --> 02:16:16.069 talking to this kid about like, yeah, well there's 02:16:16.069 --> 02:16:19.510 a whole world out here. Like, I don't know. There's 02:16:19.510 --> 02:16:22.569 no similarities there. I don't, I don't really 02:16:22.569 --> 02:16:24.310 know. I don't really know, but there's something 02:16:24.310 --> 02:16:26.649 about the flesh fair and the thing, like all 02:16:26.649 --> 02:16:29.189 of there's, there's something about being othered. 02:16:29.659 --> 02:16:33.159 and being different and whatever, and this weird 02:16:33.159 --> 02:16:37.079 sexuality and mother attachment stuff. Yeah. 02:16:37.139 --> 02:16:40.899 I mean, Drew Law seems to be a very androgynous 02:16:40.899 --> 02:16:46.159 kind of character in a lot of ways. Like, you 02:16:46.159 --> 02:16:48.819 know, I mean, he's servicing women throughout 02:16:48.819 --> 02:16:52.319 this movie. That's true. But in the real world, 02:16:52.500 --> 02:16:57.639 male prostitutes don't service women. I'm sure 02:16:57.639 --> 02:17:01.139 there are some, but I don't think there are many. 02:17:01.500 --> 02:17:05.020 I feel like if we were going to take this movie's 02:17:05.020 --> 02:17:07.879 reality seriously, Jude Law is probably getting 02:17:07.879 --> 02:17:13.979 down wherever he can. I don't know. He's not 02:17:13.979 --> 02:17:18.879 portrayed as gay, really. He's very interested 02:17:18.879 --> 02:17:21.520 in women. Also, at the same time, he's always 02:17:21.520 --> 02:17:24.340 wearing makeup and stuff and changing his... 02:17:24.340 --> 02:17:27.280 He's flamboyant. Yeah, there's a certain femininity 02:17:27.280 --> 02:17:29.500 to the prostitute character. I also wonder if 02:17:29.500 --> 02:17:31.459 he actually is doing the singing in the rain 02:17:31.459 --> 02:17:34.500 dance. It might be the same dance, yeah. Could 02:17:34.500 --> 02:17:36.940 be, but I'd have to look it up. Just the hopping 02:17:36.940 --> 02:17:41.440 up and down the sidewalk and when he actually 02:17:41.440 --> 02:17:43.899 starts to go through that puddle. Well, there's 02:17:43.899 --> 02:17:46.530 also the stepping in. to the house and then stepping 02:17:46.530 --> 02:17:48.510 back that David does in the very beginning. There's 02:17:48.510 --> 02:17:51.770 a lot of these weird repetitive motions in this 02:17:51.770 --> 02:17:55.309 movie. I didn't pick up on as many this time 02:17:55.309 --> 02:17:57.090 as I feel like I remember there being in the 02:17:57.090 --> 02:17:58.610 past, but there's definitely the hand on the 02:17:58.610 --> 02:18:00.569 back of the neck thing that repeats when she's 02:18:00.569 --> 02:18:05.389 on the phone with her husband after David is 02:18:05.389 --> 02:18:09.090 talking to her through the phone. When she finds 02:18:09.090 --> 02:18:13.270 out that her son, what's his name? Martin. Martin. 02:18:13.790 --> 02:18:17.329 um is alive again or has woken up or whatever 02:18:17.329 --> 02:18:20.010 like she is holding out of the wall with her 02:18:20.010 --> 02:18:22.370 hand and her hand makes the same sort of straight 02:18:22.370 --> 02:18:25.090 fingers like curled motion that it made on the 02:18:25.090 --> 02:18:26.690 back of the neck so there's there's all this 02:18:26.690 --> 02:18:28.809 like this hand motion being representative of 02:18:28.809 --> 02:18:33.030 love and connection thing i don't know um this 02:18:33.030 --> 02:18:36.350 grasp yeah that's empty grasp or this kind of 02:18:36.350 --> 02:18:41.430 like this beckoning or something And yeah, there's 02:18:41.430 --> 02:18:43.149 something there's something about that dance, 02:18:43.270 --> 02:18:45.389 too. And there's something about David stepping 02:18:45.389 --> 02:18:47.370 in the house and then stepping back and then 02:18:47.370 --> 02:18:49.870 stepping back in the house that like kind of 02:18:49.870 --> 02:18:53.950 mimics that dance, too. And I feel like there 02:18:53.950 --> 02:18:56.229 are other weird motions. The other thing I was 02:18:56.229 --> 02:18:57.809 thinking of that is super weird is how they turn 02:18:57.809 --> 02:18:59.690 on Teddy is just through his anus and stuff, 02:18:59.829 --> 02:19:05.049 which is just like it's it's a what's it called? 02:19:05.610 --> 02:19:11.010 It's in that anime that pervy ass. uh robot and 02:19:11.010 --> 02:19:13.290 chill bits that's like in chill bits that's how 02:19:13.290 --> 02:19:17.309 you turn on the the robot girl sex doll girls 02:19:17.309 --> 02:19:19.670 is you have to turn them on by sticking your 02:19:19.670 --> 02:19:23.829 finger in their vagina how that's where the switch 02:19:23.829 --> 02:19:26.569 is it's like teddy's switch is in his asshole 02:19:26.569 --> 02:19:28.870 like are you serious where's fucking david's 02:19:28.870 --> 02:19:32.690 switch guys this is all fucked up back of his 02:19:32.690 --> 02:19:36.590 neck let's see what you don't pee out of or pee 02:19:36.590 --> 02:19:45.709 with like Creepy fucking movie, dude. You were 02:19:45.709 --> 02:19:47.250 saying while we were watching it, that woman's 02:19:47.250 --> 02:19:49.250 face that's just the front of her face, that 02:19:49.250 --> 02:19:51.409 one robot who just doesn't have a head, but her 02:19:51.409 --> 02:19:54.629 face is there. So disturbing. There's so many 02:19:54.629 --> 02:19:56.530 things that are right on the... Yeah, there's 02:19:56.530 --> 02:20:00.469 so many disturbing images in this movie. It really 02:20:00.469 --> 02:20:09.579 does cut to the horror of Simulacra. imitations 02:20:09.579 --> 02:20:13.819 the uncanny valley exactly whatever yeah yeah 02:20:13.819 --> 02:20:18.500 yeah the uncanny the like right like i think 02:20:18.500 --> 02:20:20.200 specifically like it happens in the first scene 02:20:20.200 --> 02:20:22.100 when her face opens up the the demonstration 02:20:22.100 --> 02:20:24.920 uh robot in the first scene that looks like anna 02:20:24.920 --> 02:20:27.520 kendrick as soon as her face opens up you see 02:20:27.520 --> 02:20:31.489 someone that is totally human become an object 02:20:31.489 --> 02:20:33.909 in an instant and that is exactly what freud 02:20:33.909 --> 02:20:36.530 describes as the unhomely like the thing that 02:20:36.530 --> 02:20:38.770 is exactly like familiar and yet unfamiliar and 02:20:38.770 --> 02:20:41.530 like the ai is the same like the whole concept 02:20:41.530 --> 02:20:44.110 of ai that's what's disturbing about it is yeah 02:20:44.110 --> 02:20:47.510 it's like unhomeliness the the just slightly 02:20:47.510 --> 02:20:52.110 uncanny that makes you disgusted and repulsed 02:20:52.110 --> 02:20:55.850 and because it is evil like it actually is evil 02:20:55.850 --> 02:20:59.090 that's why you're it's your body is saying To 02:20:59.090 --> 02:21:01.909 kill it. Or at least the men in this movie are. 02:21:05.549 --> 02:21:09.409 Well, yeah. Like, the men in Zardoz are all these 02:21:09.409 --> 02:21:11.430 brutal murderers and stuff. I guess not the ones 02:21:11.430 --> 02:21:13.329 in the society, but, like, you know, if you say 02:21:13.329 --> 02:21:14.149 the outside world... In the society, we're all 02:21:14.149 --> 02:21:16.350 wearing blouses, though. Yeah, the one that... 02:21:16.350 --> 02:21:18.610 We were saying that the society is feminine and 02:21:18.610 --> 02:21:21.469 that the outside world is masculine. And, like, 02:21:21.549 --> 02:21:23.590 the feminine world is the one that's, like... 02:21:23.870 --> 02:21:26.610 like controlled by ai and just like completely 02:21:26.610 --> 02:21:29.389 arms wide open with the whole system and consensus 02:21:29.389 --> 02:21:32.409 and all this stuff and just a stagnancy and safety 02:21:32.409 --> 02:21:39.549 and security and yeah we didn't dig into like 02:21:39.549 --> 02:21:41.829 all their parallels but like they're there and 02:21:41.829 --> 02:21:44.750 there's like a still like a thing like the thing 02:21:44.750 --> 02:21:48.299 about class is kind of still there and Totally. 02:21:48.440 --> 02:21:51.139 Like they're both just very surreal, psychedelic 02:21:51.139 --> 02:21:53.760 movies as well. I think like I was saying to 02:21:53.760 --> 02:21:55.659 you, it's like really interesting the type of 02:21:55.659 --> 02:22:00.760 imagery AI gets away with. Oh yeah. Like justifying 02:22:00.760 --> 02:22:03.020 or whatever by its narrative, you know, like 02:22:03.020 --> 02:22:06.559 it shows you some really interesting images that 02:22:06.559 --> 02:22:08.719 are very disturbing. And I'm really honestly 02:22:08.719 --> 02:22:11.620 like not surprised that this movie didn't go 02:22:11.620 --> 02:22:14.079 over very well for a lot of people. It's just 02:22:14.079 --> 02:22:16.959 sickeningly disturbing. It's sickeningly disturbing, 02:22:17.260 --> 02:22:20.799 and I feel like maybe that's just not what you 02:22:20.799 --> 02:22:22.899 wanted from a Spielberg at that time. You were 02:22:22.899 --> 02:22:25.020 trying to have fun, like Jurassic Park or something. 02:22:25.059 --> 02:22:27.500 This was part of his darkest of trilogies. Yeah, 02:22:27.500 --> 02:22:31.420 it's so dark. The trilogy of science fiction 02:22:31.420 --> 02:22:35.940 movies, the War of the Worlds, AI, Minority Report 02:22:35.940 --> 02:22:38.520 trilogy. What order is that in? It's AI first, 02:22:38.680 --> 02:22:40.239 then Minority Report, then War of the Worlds, 02:22:40.340 --> 02:22:42.760 right? Maybe we should do this. I think that's 02:22:42.760 --> 02:22:46.459 correct, yeah. Want to just keep going, do another 02:22:46.459 --> 02:22:48.319 one, and then do another one? I don't think I 02:22:48.319 --> 02:22:51.200 can do that, brother. I'm so sorry. I've got 02:22:51.200 --> 02:22:54.020 to get on a plane tomorrow. They're the best. 02:22:54.260 --> 02:22:56.219 They're the darkest Spielberg ever gets. And 02:22:56.219 --> 02:22:57.979 I don't know if he gets any darker than this. 02:22:58.059 --> 02:23:01.540 I remember Minority Report as being maybe the 02:23:01.540 --> 02:23:05.709 darkest of his whole career. I'm not saying Schindler's 02:23:05.709 --> 02:23:09.250 List is light. AI might be the darkest. AI might 02:23:09.250 --> 02:23:11.229 be even darker than Minority Report. Schindler's 02:23:11.229 --> 02:23:13.670 List is very dark. Schindler's List is different. 02:23:14.229 --> 02:23:18.309 It's a little different, yeah. I don't know, 02:23:18.350 --> 02:23:23.969 man. Would you say that's that, Matchesman? I'd 02:23:23.969 --> 02:23:54.729 say that's that. Thank you.