WEBVTT

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See, I believe that all the mysteries of the

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universe, all the answers to life's questions

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can be found in a Spielberg film. I've been afraid for

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all of my life. Why doesn’t somebody just shoot

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me in the head? Right up until the day I knew

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my life was ending. You look bad. No, man. You

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smell bad. I'm pretty fucking far from Ok. Really? I

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feel like I'm sharing a very - Look at my shit. I had an affair.- precious moment

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with you. There are no nations. There are no peoples.

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Are you threatening me, dick? You don't approve.

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Fake. Well, too bad. Totally fake. Did it seem

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fake? You look like a damn crackhead. When my

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best friend was bitten in half in front of me? I found this

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cover story personally embarrassing myself. Plenty of sausage and pepperonis. Everything

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but the little fishies. Alright, welcome to Everything

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But The Little Fishies. I'm Evan. And I'm Mike.

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And today we're going to be talking about Akira

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from 1988. And we'll be talking about the manga

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as well. Mike, can you remind me when the manga

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was written? I believe it started in the early

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80s, like 82? I think it was 82. It was. Yeah,

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and then didn't he finish it after the movie

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was released? Yeah, he finished it in 90. 90,

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yeah, two years later. Okay, cool. And that other

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voice you're hearing is Josh, an unemployed vagrant

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we found on the streets. Hi, everybody. We forced

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him to read the entirety of Akira the manga and

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then watch the movie so that we would have someone

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to talk with about it. Welcome. So, Josh, introduce

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yourself. Hi. Hi. Thanks for having me. Thanks

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for subjecting me to the total anime terrorism

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that is Akira. Anime terrorism. In every single

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possible way, emotional, literal. Yeah, it was

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totally my pleasure. Thank you. It's definitely

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an assault on the senses. Absolutely. So, yeah,

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I guess, Josh. Josh really never watched that

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much anime before or anything. So that's part

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of the reason that we decided to have him on

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is basically to get an introduction. And Akira

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is kind of like an introductory sort of anime

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work. I mean, it was like one of the first animes

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that came and kind of made a name for anime in

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America and stuff. And so kind of it's one of

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the first that people get around to checking

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out and wanted to see what a first experience

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with Akira kind of was like. It's been such a

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long time since our first experiences. Yeah,

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my history with anime pretty much predates to

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the screening of the Kingdom of the Planet of

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the Apes that I saw where Mike was like, hey,

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come to my car. And he returned with a big reusable

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Target bag filled with the fucking fattest book

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series. I've ever seen. Uh, and he was like,

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Hey, these are yours. Uh, like he was giving

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me some kind of like cursed totem and he was

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like, no pressure, read them whenever you want.

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Uh, but I, I'd like to know what you think. And

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I was like, okay, all right. Uh, before reading

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those books, I literally had seen like, uh, like

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one episode of that Castlevania Netflix anime

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series. I'm like, no, I don't, whatever this

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is, I don't like it. And then, you know, whatever

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you, you absorb through your, Your skin and eyeballs

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being a part of the culture currently, which

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is, you know, I think pretty anime heavy or pretty

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anime influence heavy at the very least. Totally.

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Way more so now, I think, than, you know, when

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we were coming up. Oh, 100%. I think it's interesting

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because, you know, Akira really is like the beginning

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of that rise of anime sort of in the West that

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now is like super ubiquitous. So I think it's

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one that I think is really interesting to check

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out. It's also one that I don't think like enough

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of the sort of current anime sort of scene like

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still cares about. I think that part of the thing

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with anime, especially in America, but I think

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in Japan too, is that like it's this culture

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of, it's disposable culture. So the stuff comes

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and it goes and people don't care about it five

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years later. There's like these huge anime series

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that take over and everybody's talking about

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it. And then like, as soon as it's done it's

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kind of over because these are not good or important

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or like I think a lot of the problem with anime

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is that I mean the biggest problem I have with

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anime is if you ask an anime fan to give you

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a good anime like they cannot do it because anime

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bans Anime fans are not interested in film. Anime

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fans in general are interested in anime. And

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there are specific anime tropes that they're

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interested in or things that appeal to them.

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There's this type of queer anime thing or this

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type of horny anime thing or whatever it is that

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your demographic likes. It's like identitarian.

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Exactly. And they've figured out kind of how

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to find this identity and exploit this identity

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or whatever and give people exactly the fan service

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that they need to enjoy this type of thing. And

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if you ask those people, like, what's a good

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one? They're like, well, this one. This is the

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one that I like. It's like, well, that's just

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what your perversion is. That's what you're into.

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You're just that kind of freak. I really like

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One Piece. Right. And some of it is just they

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like the ones that their friends are into. Some

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of it is that they like the one that's about

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their identity. Some of it is just this is the

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edgy thing now, whatever it is. But, you know,

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like when we were coming up and getting into

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film, like. there were lists online of like,

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you know, these are the important movies. There's

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a canon of film and whatever. And you kind of

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watch, you know, Citizen Kane and Tarantino and

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whatever. There's just like basic stuff that

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kind of everybody got into. And in anime, there

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were those things kind of, you know, in the 90s,

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I think that was, it was more, there was a list

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of the great anime stuff and whatever. And now

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it's just kind of like, there is this vomit of

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like everything and whatever you're into, there's

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something for you if you're an anime person.

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But the people who are into that are not the

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same people who are into Lynch movies and Kubrick

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movies and whatever, who are also into it. It's

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it's they're anime people and they're movie people

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and they're separate. So it's like it's like

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bespoke pornography. It basically is. And I think

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that they, you know, they tie into each other

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a lot. I mean, the anime pornography, hentai,

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you know, overlap stuff is. All over the place,

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because I think a lot of these, you know, anime

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series are doing hentai things without being

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hentai or whatever, just appealing to perversions.

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Do you think in Japan that anime that rises to

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the top in the West, like Akira and Evangelion

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and, I don't know, what we would consider these

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culturally important works, do you think all

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that stuff just kind of, like, fades into the

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sea of anime for anime fans? Like, do you think

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they discern between something like Dragon Ball

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Z and Akira? I mean, Dragon Ball Z is a little

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different, like, because it's a little earlier.

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Lots of kids cartoons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's

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like a shounen thing. Yeah. But I don't think

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there is as much of a, like, culture of, like,

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this is the great, you know, canon of anime,

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and this is, you know, not. Like, I think there's...

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Yeah, yeah. I think... Japan is ahead of America

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on a lot of the modernization stuff. Like we'll

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kind of get into this and whatnot. But I think

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that part of the thing that we see in America

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now of our sort of fractured film culture where,

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you know, you all have streaming services where

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everybody's watching their own series and nobody's

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watching the same thing as anybody else. Like

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Japan, I think, got to that place before we did.

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And I think that like there's like everybody

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in Japan reads manga and stuff, but like they're

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not all reading the same manga. they're reading

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the manga that they're into or their friends

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are like it's it's a much more fractured kind

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of culture um is it everyone in japan like a

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lot of yeah yeah like reading manga in japan

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is like as common as like reading books and like

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i mean nobody reads books anymore well that's

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kind of what i'm saying it's like are you talking

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about watching netflix that well that's what

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i'm saying is it like is it a new medium over

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there that is like independent from like i don't

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know media we have existing in this country Well,

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so that sounds I don't know. In Japan, like manga

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is like the paperback, like where like people

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on the train, like everybody in the 90s, at least

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when we didn't have phones, we would all be reading,

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you know, paperbacks or whatever. Right. But

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we kind of live in the age where we've like been

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kind of like ironically detached from paperback

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culture. Like, you know, if you see someone like

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my mother -in -law was watching my kids yesterday

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and she had like a James Patterson book from

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the library. And I was like, holy shit. Like

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I haven't seen one of those. outside of a library

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in like nine years yeah yeah so it's like that's

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why i'm like is that actually true in japan or

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is it like is that just our so i really i'm not

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exactly sure as far as like the current modern

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japanese sort of thing like i don't know if there's

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a lot of people on ipads now or like at the height

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of manga that's that's it was like that widely

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proliferated yeah yeah exactly like like you

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know housewives would be reading manga nerds

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be reading manga businessmen be reading manga

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and they would be reading different ones there's

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businessman manga and there's housewife manga

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and there's kid manga and there's many different

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and you're saying that's similar to how like

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everyone watches their own Netflix now or at

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least everyone watches some kind of streaming

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service where they can curate stuff that's like

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or an algorithm can rather curate this collection

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of work that meets their sort of niche right

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right and I think that it's it's like a huge

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culture of like tons of media just like now we've

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got so many Netflix series and so many things

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but like there's not one thing that everybody's

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kind of all about now i think that those things

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do happen like the the ava movie that you know

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ava three plus one like which we all saw me included

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like some of them were like you know these are

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huge phenomenon anime and stuff um but I think

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there's I think there's like less of a culture

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of like, you know, anime fans being like, OK,

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well, what I need to do is I need to see Akira

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and Ghost in the Shell and, you know, Jinro and

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all of the basics. They then get up to seeing

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like, well, now I can watch this stuff from the

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early 2000s or whatever. It's like, no, people

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are like, I like anime, so I'm going to watch.

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you know uh death note because that's the cool

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thing it's like well what did death note get

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all of its influences from where is the like

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thing what and it's like that's not what they're

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interested in they're interested in reading a

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thing that then well like we have this kind of

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diegetic approach to like how we consume media

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right that is like linear it's like well we have

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to know the it's what we were taught in fucking

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college right where it's like to break the rules

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you first have to know all of the rules and like

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i don't know that kind of flies in the face of

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like anime culture where like you know yeah you

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could tell a kid like no you need to read ghost

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in the shell and akira and they're like dude

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i've seen every i've seen all 14 000 episodes

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of one piece right or i've i've seen all i don't

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know 30 what seems to me 32 000 iterations of

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like demon slayer wing yes yeah and it's like

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yeah if you have like a deep enough knowledge

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in your own little subculture there like that's

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good enough it supersedes like historical exactly

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yeah but even specifically specifically you said

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gundam wing like specifically with gundam like

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there are new gundam series coming out all the

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time and i do not think there's the same thing

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of people who watch gundam being like i should

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probably go watch mobile suit gundam from 1979

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and like see where this all started and then

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get to you know gundam zeta gundam and then double

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get his own like they they don't it's not about

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like There were these ideas that were created

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in the 70s that now we're doing a new Gundam

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with. If you're into robots, watch this. It's

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not the canon and the building of the back of

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Ori and whatever. It's weird that anime has actually

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become such a normie thing now in America. I've

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talked to tons of random people and they'll bring

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up like, oh yeah, I like anime because there's

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so much of it on Netflix now. Netflix will...

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and distribute a ton of anime. And there actually

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is sort of like... That's fucking insane. I'm

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sorry. It was actually like a really... No, no,

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I mean, there was a really big resurgence for

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Evangelion because it got put up on Netflix.

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Totally, totally. Finally, after 20 years. Yeah,

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and there's like a ton of normies talking about

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Evangelion all of a sudden. But I didn't get

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the sense that they... Yeah, like I didn't get

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the sense that these people... really discriminated

00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:16.440
between that and something like one piece or

00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:22.200
attack on titan or whatever yeah you know i guess

00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:25.139
like i'm not an anime nerd so i haven't really

00:12:25.139 --> 00:12:28.299
like deep dived into a ton of those kinds of

00:12:28.299 --> 00:12:31.139
shows so maybe i'm like it's unfair for me to

00:12:31.139 --> 00:12:34.379
say that kind of thing but like when when i get

00:12:34.379 --> 00:12:36.220
a taste of those shows and when i hear people

00:12:36.220 --> 00:12:39.159
talk about them they come off as these sort of

00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:42.940
like frivolous superfluous episodic things that

00:12:42.940 --> 00:12:46.220
you can jump in and out of any time and are are

00:12:46.220 --> 00:12:49.700
more about these genre expressions than really

00:12:49.700 --> 00:12:52.360
like creating a work of deep art or something

00:12:52.909 --> 00:12:55.370
Well, the thing is, like, I think that the value,

00:12:55.490 --> 00:12:58.649
the thing that people value in anime are not

00:12:58.649 --> 00:13:00.549
necessarily the same things that we value in,

00:13:00.649 --> 00:13:03.509
like, film. When you say a piece of art, film

00:13:03.509 --> 00:13:05.990
or whatever, like, we're thinking of the art

00:13:05.990 --> 00:13:08.009
differently. Like, early anime fans were into

00:13:08.009 --> 00:13:10.590
Macross and stuff. They were not so much into

00:13:10.590 --> 00:13:13.090
Macross because it was like a great piece of

00:13:13.090 --> 00:13:15.990
storytelling that, you know. It was very much

00:13:15.990 --> 00:13:19.649
about, like, look at the designs on this mobile

00:13:19.649 --> 00:13:22.470
space station and how this comes out of this

00:13:22.470 --> 00:13:25.309
space station and turns into a, like, plane and

00:13:25.309 --> 00:13:27.149
whatever and stuff. And, like, look at the engineering

00:13:27.149 --> 00:13:29.350
that this, like, specific artist put into this.

00:13:29.450 --> 00:13:31.450
Like, actually, this is brilliant. Like, it's

00:13:31.450 --> 00:13:33.769
like, yeah, well, that is brilliant. The designs

00:13:33.769 --> 00:13:35.190
and the things or whatever, like, those are brilliant.

00:13:35.269 --> 00:13:37.809
And then, like, it, you know, is put towards

00:13:37.809 --> 00:13:39.549
something that, like, kind of, to me at least,

00:13:39.549 --> 00:13:41.450
made absolutely no sense. Like, the first Macross

00:13:41.450 --> 00:13:43.009
movie I tried to watch and it was just like...

00:13:43.470 --> 00:13:46.250
There's some shit with some pop star that is

00:13:46.250 --> 00:13:48.970
on a giant space platform and they're trying

00:13:48.970 --> 00:13:52.629
to save the world. It doesn't make sense. There's

00:13:52.629 --> 00:13:54.389
a bunch of singing and then there's a bunch of

00:13:54.389 --> 00:14:00.370
floating space station shit. But a fan in the

00:14:00.370 --> 00:14:02.690
70s is just kind of like, there are so many things

00:14:02.690 --> 00:14:06.169
here to connect to in my engineering brain and

00:14:06.169 --> 00:14:08.210
whatever that I find interesting and then can

00:14:08.210 --> 00:14:11.129
make models of. Well, what are those things though?

00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:14.960
I mean, like, the engineering. Like, the specific,

00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:18.039
like, designs and, like, engineering things that

00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:20.080
are, like... You mean, like, the literal, like,

00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:22.700
schematics. Yeah, like, the schematics, exactly.

00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:25.600
The schematics of this type of futurism. I think

00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:28.340
it's being attracted to aesthetics, you know?

00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:31.159
Just, like, how something looks and the vibe

00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:34.019
of it, you know? Oh, totally. I mean, so much

00:14:34.019 --> 00:14:36.039
anime is vibe -based, where it's just, like,

00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:38.039
all you need to have are some robots fighting,

00:14:38.179 --> 00:14:41.230
some sexy anime chicks, and... then I'm good.

00:14:41.330 --> 00:14:43.850
Like I can watch that. That's just like a vibe

00:14:43.850 --> 00:14:47.750
that I'm into. Yeah. No, totally. Totally. But

00:14:47.750 --> 00:14:51.169
I think, I think like that vibe is like kind

00:14:51.169 --> 00:14:53.669
of the basic thing that gets the viewer in, but

00:14:53.669 --> 00:14:56.450
like where the art is, I think is in like the

00:14:56.450 --> 00:14:58.490
schematics of like some of those, like, you know

00:14:58.490 --> 00:15:00.769
what I mean? Like it's not, when you're talking

00:15:00.769 --> 00:15:02.250
about something like Macross, this isn't like

00:15:02.250 --> 00:15:05.049
continuing the tradition of filmmaking that was

00:15:05.049 --> 00:15:06.990
started by Citizen Kane or something like, you

00:15:06.990 --> 00:15:10.090
know what I mean? Like this is, Continuing the

00:15:10.090 --> 00:15:12.970
tradition of drawing nerdy shit in your parents'

00:15:13.129 --> 00:15:16.090
basement and then putting it on display to the

00:15:16.090 --> 00:15:19.669
other nerd. It's not the same idea of what filmmaking

00:15:19.669 --> 00:15:23.669
is. And I think that, getting back to what we're

00:15:23.669 --> 00:15:24.889
actually talking about, I think that what's really

00:15:24.889 --> 00:15:26.350
interesting about Akira is that I think that

00:15:26.350 --> 00:15:30.309
that movie actually is an attempt to make a real

00:15:30.309 --> 00:15:34.450
feature film that is a spectacle in the way that...

00:15:35.049 --> 00:15:38.169
we think of in the West, like as a complete movie

00:15:38.169 --> 00:15:41.210
that's like self -contained and like tells a

00:15:41.210 --> 00:15:45.230
full story. Yeah, I mean, Katsuhiro Otomo in

00:15:45.230 --> 00:15:47.470
like this interview said that he was very inspired

00:15:47.470 --> 00:15:51.350
by Western movies when he made Akira. I mean,

00:15:51.370 --> 00:15:54.590
he specifically said that like movies like Bonnie

00:15:54.590 --> 00:15:59.210
and Clyde and Easy Rider and Butch Cassidy and

00:15:59.210 --> 00:16:02.250
the Sundance Kid. kind of changed the way he

00:16:02.250 --> 00:16:05.230
saw the world and storytelling and stuff. And

00:16:05.230 --> 00:16:08.590
that he was, you know, inspired by cyberpunk

00:16:08.590 --> 00:16:11.649
aesthetics and whatever, which I'm not sure exactly

00:16:11.649 --> 00:16:15.149
where they originated. But like Akira does come

00:16:15.149 --> 00:16:19.509
off as like much more of a Western work. Definitely.

00:16:19.690 --> 00:16:22.070
Than many other animes do. And I think one of

00:16:22.070 --> 00:16:24.110
the things that's really interesting about just

00:16:24.110 --> 00:16:26.169
Japan in general is a lot of the things that

00:16:26.169 --> 00:16:30.460
we think of as the greatest Japanese stuff. is

00:16:30.460 --> 00:16:32.559
just like something that they ported from the

00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:36.500
West and made their own. Whether it's like, you

00:16:36.500 --> 00:16:42.500
know, blue jeans or cartoons or cars, TVs, electronics,

00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:45.019
fine -tuned machinery. Maybe that's why we think

00:16:45.019 --> 00:16:48.039
it's so special. Their tea ceremony is something

00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:51.179
they imported from China. Like, it's like every

00:16:51.179 --> 00:16:52.840
single thing is like, it's a Japanese thing,

00:16:52.899 --> 00:16:54.460
but really it's like, it's a thing they imported

00:16:54.460 --> 00:16:56.620
and then like perfected and made like weirdly,

00:16:56.620 --> 00:16:59.789
ridiculously intricate or whatever. But it's

00:16:59.789 --> 00:17:02.830
not, I don't know. Specifically, like, if you're

00:17:02.830 --> 00:17:04.690
thinking about filmmakers, like, one of, like,

00:17:04.789 --> 00:17:07.170
you know, who's, like, the most famous Japanese

00:17:07.170 --> 00:17:09.769
filmmaker of all time is, like, Kurosawa, who's

00:17:09.769 --> 00:17:12.130
just, like, a Western filmmaker. Sure, but, like,

00:17:12.170 --> 00:17:15.730
the other great Japanese filmmaker is Ozu, who

00:17:15.730 --> 00:17:17.650
is, like, a traditionalist filmmaker. So it's,

00:17:17.650 --> 00:17:19.109
like, you know. He's doing it completely. But

00:17:19.109 --> 00:17:21.910
that's, like, that's a different tradition that

00:17:21.910 --> 00:17:25.529
I think, like, people like Kurosawa, like, break

00:17:25.529 --> 00:17:27.259
from. Like, you know what I mean? Totally. But

00:17:27.259 --> 00:17:28.980
I think like that's trying to continue a tradition

00:17:28.980 --> 00:17:33.119
that is like an ancient Japanese tradition or

00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:34.480
whatever. Right. But you're saying that's a thing

00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:36.940
that doesn't exist. He's, you know, proliferating

00:17:36.940 --> 00:17:41.299
a propagandistic idea of like, I don't know,

00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:43.200
end of history kind of thing where it's like

00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:46.819
we are the products of like a great mystic process.

00:17:47.539 --> 00:17:50.640
And like, yeah, like they're in that mysticism,

00:17:50.700 --> 00:17:52.880
like it has brought us to like the perfect place

00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:55.910
of, you know. zen -ness but also like it brings

00:17:55.910 --> 00:17:58.150
you to the top of the culture because you have

00:17:58.150 --> 00:18:00.289
all of this stuff behind you that you've necessarily

00:18:00.289 --> 00:18:03.049
sloughed off and it's brought you to something

00:18:03.049 --> 00:18:06.390
new and it's like that is I think it kind of

00:18:06.390 --> 00:18:09.049
leads right into something like Akira no totally

00:18:09.049 --> 00:18:11.329
that's the next step but I think I think that's

00:18:11.329 --> 00:18:12.829
like that's kind of the thing is there's like

00:18:12.829 --> 00:18:16.230
Japan is this like Ozu Kurosawa like dichotomy

00:18:16.230 --> 00:18:18.029
you know what I mean there is there is this thing

00:18:18.029 --> 00:18:20.890
of like this history and tradition and this like

00:18:20.890 --> 00:18:24.329
subtlety and this like And then you've got Kurosawa,

00:18:24.450 --> 00:18:26.650
who's basically just, like, doing Western shit.

00:18:26.809 --> 00:18:28.170
Yeah, I just thought a little bit. I thought

00:18:28.170 --> 00:18:29.609
you were kind of saying, like, no, it's this

00:18:29.609 --> 00:18:33.150
one. It's a phony sham country. No, no, no, no.

00:18:33.670 --> 00:18:37.509
It's a Disneyland idea of Eastern mysticism.

00:18:39.130 --> 00:18:40.990
I mean, that's probably part of the reason why

00:18:40.990 --> 00:18:43.390
we connect with this stuff, because it is so

00:18:43.390 --> 00:18:47.670
tinged by Western material. It's the post -war

00:18:47.670 --> 00:18:50.829
era. I mean, we talk about Kurosawa. Like, most

00:18:50.829 --> 00:18:53.160
of his films come from the post -war era. Right,

00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:55.359
right. Yes. You know. Yep. And it's like, yeah,

00:18:55.420 --> 00:18:58.140
it's, we are, you know, we helped rebuild that

00:18:58.140 --> 00:19:01.099
society. And I mean, like. We rebuilt that society.

00:19:01.180 --> 00:19:03.819
But one of the last. But that's kind of, that's

00:19:03.819 --> 00:19:05.119
also what it cares about, right? Yeah. Like,

00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:07.559
one of the very last lines is, like, effectively,

00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:09.240
like, stay the fuck out of our country. Yeah,

00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:10.900
yeah, yeah. America. It's the best. Yeah. It's

00:19:10.900 --> 00:19:12.640
the best. And it's like, yeah, yeah, sorry, go

00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:14.480
ahead. No, no, that's, like, that's exactly,

00:19:14.579 --> 00:19:16.039
that's exactly what I'm saying. It's like, I

00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:17.819
think, I think that, like, what we're talking

00:19:17.819 --> 00:19:20.490
about is, like, a very specific time, like. you

00:19:20.490 --> 00:19:25.130
know in 1944 um where these things changed you

00:19:25.130 --> 00:19:27.089
know what i mean it was 44 right now that i said

00:19:27.089 --> 00:19:31.450
that it's 45 45 god damn but where all these

00:19:31.450 --> 00:19:33.170
things changed right where like you you kind

00:19:33.170 --> 00:19:35.930
of have this society that like has been totally

00:19:35.930 --> 00:19:38.609
isolated for like thousands of years now i mean

00:19:38.609 --> 00:19:40.049
you know there are a couple there's like a hundred

00:19:40.049 --> 00:19:42.369
years leading up to this but it was totally isolated

00:19:42.369 --> 00:19:45.109
for thousands of years and was able to create

00:19:45.109 --> 00:19:48.390
the like most bespoke like a significantly, like,

00:19:48.470 --> 00:19:50.869
different culture, like, idiosyncratic culture

00:19:50.869 --> 00:19:52.930
from, like, the entire rest of the world because

00:19:52.930 --> 00:19:55.250
they were able to not be conquered by the Huns

00:19:55.250 --> 00:19:57.069
and things, like, the whole rest of, you know,

00:19:57.130 --> 00:20:00.349
Asia. And so they've got this, like, really specific

00:20:00.349 --> 00:20:03.630
and different history that then they're just,

00:20:03.690 --> 00:20:06.329
like, told, fuck that, you're not allowed to

00:20:06.329 --> 00:20:07.950
have that anymore. You know what I mean? It's

00:20:07.950 --> 00:20:09.589
just, like, no longer can you have a warrior

00:20:09.589 --> 00:20:11.470
history, in fact, like, a warrior culture instead.

00:20:11.549 --> 00:20:15.049
Like, no weapons at all for you guys. Like, you

00:20:15.049 --> 00:20:17.460
guys went way too hard, so, like, How about none

00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:20.539
of that ever? And, like, that is, like, it's

00:20:20.539 --> 00:20:22.200
cliche to talk about or whatever, but, like,

00:20:22.220 --> 00:20:25.819
that is, like, a huge, like, cultural shift thing,

00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:27.660
especially for some place like Japan that is,

00:20:27.740 --> 00:20:30.799
like, they were such a ridiculously specific

00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:33.700
warrior culture, like, that was, like, willing

00:20:33.700 --> 00:20:37.420
to do the craziest shit, like, in World War II,

00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:41.019
like. They weren't even as crazy 100 years before

00:20:41.019 --> 00:20:44.339
that, but their introduction of the Western stuff

00:20:44.339 --> 00:20:46.579
into Japan and the way that they dealt with that

00:20:46.579 --> 00:20:50.160
and the way that the samurai changed into this

00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:55.019
super businessman thing, that shift is a crazy

00:20:55.019 --> 00:20:57.500
shift. And Akira is dealing with that shift.

00:20:57.500 --> 00:21:00.119
They almost sort of accepted it with open arms

00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.650
in a lot of ways. Well, yeah. how quickly they

00:21:03.650 --> 00:21:05.609
assimilated all that stuff into their culture.

00:21:05.730 --> 00:21:08.549
Yeah. Yeah. There was the economic miracle and

00:21:08.549 --> 00:21:11.450
stuff. Yeah. Like they, but a lot of that is

00:21:11.450 --> 00:21:14.829
because they had no choice and were being forced

00:21:14.829 --> 00:21:17.809
into this specific idea of success. That is a

00:21:17.809 --> 00:21:19.529
Western idea of success. And the people that

00:21:19.529 --> 00:21:22.329
are successful with that Western idea of success

00:21:22.329 --> 00:21:25.529
are Western style filmmakers and things like,

00:21:25.529 --> 00:21:26.910
you know what I mean? Like all of the things

00:21:26.910 --> 00:21:29.309
that come out of it after that point are like,

00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:33.960
catering to the west and like trying to depart

00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:36.960
from that sort of tradition or not necessarily

00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:39.619
depart from but like find some way to fit that

00:21:39.619 --> 00:21:41.440
tradition into a new tradition or something it's

00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:44.660
a transition period at the very least yeah and

00:21:44.660 --> 00:21:46.779
that and that understanding really does help

00:21:46.779 --> 00:21:50.579
make a lot of anime make sense totally totally

00:21:50.579 --> 00:21:53.099
and manga too like so much of it really is about

00:21:53.099 --> 00:21:57.259
this like repression and this like I don't know.

00:21:57.279 --> 00:21:59.619
I feel like the obsession with giant robots and,

00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:02.299
like, all these kind of, like, military things.

00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:03.980
Like, yeah, like, Japan doesn't have much of

00:22:03.980 --> 00:22:05.619
a military. Like, their police officers don't

00:22:05.619 --> 00:22:08.359
even carry guns and shit. Yeah, yeah. But in

00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:10.579
their media, there's, like, such an obsession

00:22:10.579 --> 00:22:14.079
with, like, highly technolized war machines and

00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:16.960
things like that. Exactly. And this is, like,

00:22:17.059 --> 00:22:19.710
how I often think about, like... You know, in

00:22:19.710 --> 00:22:21.809
Star Trek, we'll talk about this in the future,

00:22:21.849 --> 00:22:23.210
but in Star Trek, they talk about space, the

00:22:23.210 --> 00:22:25.190
final frontier. And it's like, no, space isn't

00:22:25.190 --> 00:22:26.829
the final frontier. Science fiction is the final

00:22:26.829 --> 00:22:28.809
frontier. You know what I mean? And it's like,

00:22:28.829 --> 00:22:30.410
it's not about building space stations. It's

00:22:30.410 --> 00:22:32.660
about... science fiction space stations and it's

00:22:32.660 --> 00:22:34.599
not about building a military it's about a science

00:22:34.599 --> 00:22:37.480
fiction military that's like in japan yeah that's

00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:39.240
like that's what japan has built up is like since

00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:41.220
world war ii no more military fine we're gonna

00:22:41.220 --> 00:22:43.579
have the greatest imaginary military you've ever

00:22:43.579 --> 00:22:47.039
heard of like we're gonna get all of our masculinity

00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:50.839
out in like the craziest rape like shit on in

00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:54.519
cartoons like we're gonna be the most masculine

00:22:54.519 --> 00:22:57.099
like we're doing it's like but just like in our

00:22:57.099 --> 00:23:00.890
you know in our games in our fun time Yeah, in

00:23:00.890 --> 00:23:04.089
our virtual realities where we're avatars. It's

00:23:04.089 --> 00:23:06.910
repression. It's repression. But that repression

00:23:06.910 --> 00:23:08.670
creates some, you know, ridiculous shit. If I

00:23:08.670 --> 00:23:11.230
were a Japanese person, I would be so fucking

00:23:11.230 --> 00:23:13.589
mad listening to this right now. I think to be

00:23:13.589 --> 00:23:16.670
like, to just be like completely equating like.

00:23:17.210 --> 00:23:18.990
And I mean, like, if you were to be like, yeah,

00:23:19.069 --> 00:23:22.329
every Japanese man is an emasculated Tetsuo being

00:23:22.329 --> 00:23:24.470
like, stop pushing me around. You know what I

00:23:24.470 --> 00:23:27.210
mean? It's like, I don't know, man. And we're

00:23:27.210 --> 00:23:29.289
the people pushing them around. It's just like,

00:23:29.309 --> 00:23:32.509
I don't know. I don't, you know, for the listeners

00:23:32.509 --> 00:23:35.109
at home, I don't look like any kind of alpha

00:23:35.109 --> 00:23:41.049
male, man. Like, I don't know what American hypermasculinity

00:23:41.049 --> 00:23:44.190
post -World War II, the American hypermasculinity

00:23:44.190 --> 00:23:46.859
project looks like. But I think. Like in Japan.

00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:50.519
And in America, there is at least a slight autonomy

00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:52.599
to opt out of whatever that is. You know what

00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:56.960
I mean? That hyper -masculinity through the Japanese

00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.839
lens post -World War II is not a monocultural

00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:03.400
thing, I don't think. Yeah. However, if you're

00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:05.759
looking at Japan in World War II, they are far

00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:07.779
more of a monolith than any other modern world.

00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:10.779
100%. And they are. It's about projecting power,

00:24:10.819 --> 00:24:13.119
and it's about projecting almost weirdly dominant

00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:16.160
male power. I mean, in the way that, let's face

00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:18.519
it, every fucking... dictator is but like yeah

00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:21.279
yeah like the the role of like the the man and

00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:24.160
like and shame in japanese culture like has led

00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:27.779
to like a history of you know historically uh

00:24:27.779 --> 00:24:31.259
the perception at least of repression no totally

00:24:31.259 --> 00:24:34.480
totally but like that i think i think that repression

00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:37.920
is something that like is part of the the japanese

00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:40.319
cultural conversation like i think it's not just

00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:42.500
like a western audience that looks at this and

00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:44.519
says like oh look at this cucked country i think

00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:48.509
like akira is a thing about being like look at

00:24:48.509 --> 00:24:50.769
this country but don't we do that to a lot of

00:24:50.769 --> 00:24:52.309
eastern countries though you know what I mean

00:24:52.309 --> 00:24:55.029
like handmade culture you know what I mean it's

00:24:55.029 --> 00:24:57.809
like not necessary it's an eastern thing that

00:24:57.809 --> 00:25:00.849
we look at it as like you know the subjugation

00:25:00.849 --> 00:25:05.450
is not a Japanese thing actually like in to some

00:25:05.450 --> 00:25:07.690
of the dumbest people in this country they're

00:25:07.690 --> 00:25:09.710
like Japanese people and then they're Asian people

00:25:09.710 --> 00:25:12.740
you know what I mean like and it's I don't know,

00:25:12.740 --> 00:25:14.640
man. So it's like, I don't think, I don't know.

00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:16.819
I know what you're saying that like shame is

00:25:16.819 --> 00:25:18.559
baked into their culture, but I don't think,

00:25:18.619 --> 00:25:21.220
I don't know, like the subjugation. It's like,

00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:23.480
I don't know. I don't think they think of themselves

00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:26.220
as subjugated people. I think they think of themselves

00:25:26.220 --> 00:25:29.420
as like. They probably don't. No. I mean, I don't

00:25:29.420 --> 00:25:31.740
think we like to think we're subjugated either.

00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:34.759
Oh, we kind of are as well. We're sure we're

00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:37.079
not though. You know what I mean? Whereas like,

00:25:37.099 --> 00:25:39.589
I like to imagine that other. folks in other

00:25:39.589 --> 00:25:41.630
countries are slightly more self -aware. But

00:25:41.630 --> 00:25:44.609
I mean, we've renegotiated like our deal with

00:25:44.609 --> 00:25:47.269
Japan after, I forget what year it was or whatever,

00:25:47.390 --> 00:25:48.990
but there was a time when we renegotiated our

00:25:48.990 --> 00:25:51.349
deal with Japan after World War II where we basically

00:25:51.349 --> 00:25:54.990
were like, here's the new deal. Like Japan is

00:25:54.990 --> 00:25:57.329
basically a military base for the United States.

00:25:57.430 --> 00:25:58.950
We're allowed to have as many guys there as we

00:25:58.950 --> 00:26:01.289
want. And if anybody attacks your country, you

00:26:01.289 --> 00:26:03.630
don't need to protect them. And that's that.

00:26:03.769 --> 00:26:05.630
And like Japan signed on to that or whatever,

00:26:05.690 --> 00:26:07.490
but like the entire Japanese culture was just

00:26:07.490 --> 00:26:09.369
kind of like. Maybe not the entire, but there

00:26:09.369 --> 00:26:11.930
was a lot of pushback being like, dude, like,

00:26:11.970 --> 00:26:14.549
this is not chill. You know what I mean? Like,

00:26:14.569 --> 00:26:16.670
you're literally, this is embarrassing for our

00:26:16.670 --> 00:26:19.490
whole culture. We're being subjugated to this

00:26:19.490 --> 00:26:21.970
situation because we made a mistake. Or because

00:26:21.970 --> 00:26:25.150
World War II. That's a lot of, like, post -World

00:26:25.150 --> 00:26:26.910
War II austerity countries, though. And, like,

00:26:26.930 --> 00:26:29.490
a lot of the culture we saw coming out of them

00:26:29.490 --> 00:26:32.089
was like, yeah, this forced austerity by these

00:26:32.089 --> 00:26:34.829
other countries. And, yeah, like, their involvement

00:26:34.829 --> 00:26:38.019
in, like. Building the U .S. capital enterprise

00:26:38.019 --> 00:26:41.660
and putting, yeah, putting military members and

00:26:41.660 --> 00:26:45.279
bases all over the place. Like it is, I don't

00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.240
know, mutually destructive. And like, yeah, they

00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:52.119
had us. I don't know. Every single film movement

00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:55.619
out of those is in a response to that. You know,

00:26:55.619 --> 00:26:58.640
like the Italian, you know, cinema movement post

00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:01.240
-World War II is about like. Especially when

00:27:01.240 --> 00:27:03.059
you look at people like Rossellini. You know

00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:05.059
what I mean? Yeah. It's just like absolutely

00:27:05.059 --> 00:27:07.420
obsessed with talking about like, hey, look what

00:27:07.420 --> 00:27:09.700
these fucking, like, you know, we were shitty,

00:27:09.799 --> 00:27:12.519
but look what dad came and punished us with.

00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:14.119
Right, right. Like, why the fuck does he get

00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:15.740
to be dad? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, I

00:27:15.740 --> 00:27:18.859
get it. Like, I... I think there's a lot of it.

00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:21.460
And in Japan, you have stuff like Godzilla. I

00:27:21.460 --> 00:27:23.920
just watched Godzilla for the first time two

00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:26.339
nights ago. The first Godzilla? The first Godzilla.

00:27:26.500 --> 00:27:28.500
I've seen others, but I was like, I should probably

00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:30.440
watch the first one. And one of the things that

00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:32.059
stood out to me the most about that movie was

00:27:32.059 --> 00:27:35.799
just like, that Godzilla is Japan. And Japan

00:27:35.799 --> 00:27:38.559
is Japan. Or Japan is America, kind of. You know

00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:40.700
what I mean? But Godzilla is this thing that

00:27:40.700 --> 00:27:44.509
is like... This unstoppable force that is not

00:27:44.509 --> 00:27:46.650
going to stop just like the Japanese were going

00:27:46.650 --> 00:27:48.970
to fight to the last man. It's a sign of resilience.

00:27:50.190 --> 00:27:53.230
But he's also like this resilience that was birthed

00:27:53.230 --> 00:27:56.269
in the atom bomb. So it's kind of the modern

00:27:56.269 --> 00:27:58.029
Japanese, but it's kind of the ancient Japanese.

00:27:58.130 --> 00:28:00.130
And then also like the Japanese are trying to

00:28:00.130 --> 00:28:01.890
deal with this in a very Japanese way. So it's

00:28:01.890 --> 00:28:03.890
the Japanese fighting the Japanese over their

00:28:03.890 --> 00:28:08.150
Japanese -ness. It's all... It's Ozu versus Kurosawa.

00:28:08.490 --> 00:28:13.369
Yeah. It really is. It really is. But like, I,

00:28:13.369 --> 00:28:17.049
I think, I think you can kind of see yourself

00:28:17.049 --> 00:28:19.609
as, as a Japanese person watching Godzilla. You

00:28:19.609 --> 00:28:21.869
could see yourself as the scientist, or you could

00:28:21.869 --> 00:28:23.970
see yourself as Godzilla, or you could see America

00:28:23.970 --> 00:28:25.990
as Godzilla or as the scientist or whatever.

00:28:26.069 --> 00:28:29.450
But like, it's all kind of on that very specific

00:28:29.450 --> 00:28:32.109
anxiety and about like how we deal with this

00:28:32.109 --> 00:28:37.849
sort of unstoppable Japanese kind of force. And

00:28:37.849 --> 00:28:41.190
then how you like, Like, I think you're right,

00:28:41.250 --> 00:28:43.670
but it's, like, to dive into, like, I guess the

00:28:43.670 --> 00:28:45.470
text a little. I guess I'm talking about the

00:28:45.470 --> 00:28:49.170
movie. It's, like, both. But, like, 5 ,000 times

00:28:49.170 --> 00:28:52.069
Tetsuo's, like, never, like, I don't need you

00:28:52.069 --> 00:28:53.910
to come to my rescue. I don't need you to come

00:28:53.910 --> 00:28:56.470
to my rescue. And then when he turns into a giant

00:28:56.470 --> 00:28:58.890
Five Nights at Freddy at the end, he's, like,

00:28:58.990 --> 00:29:02.130
please help me. Please, Kaneda, help me. Right,

00:29:02.130 --> 00:29:03.329
right, right. And it's, like, it's that idea

00:29:03.329 --> 00:29:05.069
where it's, like, yeah, I mean, like, that's

00:29:05.069 --> 00:29:08.509
the internal duel of, like, I don't want. UN

00:29:08.509 --> 00:29:11.150
peacekeepers coming in here to fucking help even

00:29:11.150 --> 00:29:13.230
if like whatever the old Japanese government

00:29:13.230 --> 00:29:16.430
one wanted them here Like we you know, it's that

00:29:16.430 --> 00:29:18.970
struggle like I would love your help. Please

00:29:18.970 --> 00:29:22.009
don't help me. Right? But also yeah and Canada

00:29:22.009 --> 00:29:24.809
and Canada himself is so much more of an American

00:29:24.809 --> 00:29:27.410
archetype like even in that last sequence He's

00:29:27.410 --> 00:29:30.029
wearing red white and blue. He's Han Solo he's

00:29:30.029 --> 00:29:33.569
like riding a bike that has like all these capitalist

00:29:33.569 --> 00:29:36.559
logos on it and stuff like that and like I don't

00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:38.900
know. He's just like, he, he seems to be a much

00:29:38.900 --> 00:29:42.759
more like Western rebellious individual character.

00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:44.720
You just said something. You just said something

00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:46.279
that I really want to expand on because like

00:29:46.279 --> 00:29:49.980
my big theory is that, and maybe this is something

00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:53.019
that people talk about. Akira is a Western. Like

00:29:53.019 --> 00:29:55.960
it is, it is literally a Western. And like in

00:29:55.960 --> 00:30:00.420
there, it's about, you know, I would say it devolves

00:30:00.420 --> 00:30:02.900
into a Western, but it is ultimately like the

00:30:02.900 --> 00:30:04.839
thing that cements the most Western trope to

00:30:04.839 --> 00:30:08.660
me is that like, Kaneda has to leave, especially

00:30:08.660 --> 00:30:12.599
in the movie, has to leave behind his rough and

00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:16.420
punk ways to become domesticated to be with Kay.

00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:21.140
You know what I mean? His entire journey is learning

00:30:21.140 --> 00:30:23.740
to give up his friends. All of his friends die

00:30:23.740 --> 00:30:27.500
except for the child figure who literally shares

00:30:27.500 --> 00:30:31.380
Kay's name. And he gets to become the father.

00:30:31.480 --> 00:30:35.319
She becomes the domestic wife figure. They ride

00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:38.880
off into the sunset to create their own hyper

00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:41.519
individualistic new Tokyo Empire. Yeah, yeah,

00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:44.400
yeah. It's like it's not the new Tokyo Empire

00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.980
isn't Tokyo and its surrounding area. It's a

00:30:47.980 --> 00:30:50.000
sign you put out front of your house. Yeah, yeah,

00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:52.339
yeah. We are the new Tokyo Empire. You know what

00:30:52.339 --> 00:30:54.779
I mean? And it's like outside of the fact that

00:30:54.779 --> 00:30:57.259
I think that like the colonel is literally like

00:30:57.259 --> 00:31:00.319
he's a Clint Eastwood character by the end of

00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:03.430
the manga. It is. Yeah. Like it is. I don't know.

00:31:03.529 --> 00:31:05.630
I just, that's like him, him wandering through

00:31:05.630 --> 00:31:08.410
the fucking wastelands at the end. That's like,

00:31:08.410 --> 00:31:10.869
that's the part that I kind of miss in the movie.

00:31:10.930 --> 00:31:12.670
You know what I mean? Cause like the movie, we'll,

00:31:12.670 --> 00:31:14.150
we'll, we'll get to it or whatever. But like,

00:31:14.150 --> 00:31:17.529
dude, in the manga, the, the, the fourth and

00:31:17.529 --> 00:31:20.130
fifth mangas are just, I mean the six, two, like

00:31:20.130 --> 00:31:22.900
the, the. The wandering around the post -apocalyptic

00:31:22.900 --> 00:31:24.960
Neo -Tokyo and, like, specifically just, like,

00:31:25.019 --> 00:31:27.240
the general still being there. And just, like,

00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:29.900
and not doing anything. You know what I mean?

00:31:29.900 --> 00:31:32.019
Well, bureaucracy is dead. Yeah. All bureaucracy

00:31:32.019 --> 00:31:34.400
is gone. There's one guy that's, like, literally

00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:37.420
just called Tetsuo's aide. And he is, like, the

00:31:37.420 --> 00:31:40.980
remnant of the bureaucracy. And all he does is,

00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:45.519
like, give pills to men and hire prostitutes

00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:48.559
for them who are effectively slaves. And it's,

00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:53.079
like, that is... Effectively slaves or just meat

00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:55.420
because Tetsuro killed them. They're not even

00:31:55.420 --> 00:31:58.759
slaves. But it's like they ripped the fucking

00:31:58.759 --> 00:32:01.539
skin off the technocracy and underneath it is

00:32:01.539 --> 00:32:03.539
literally just like gangs. You know what I mean?

00:32:03.559 --> 00:32:06.140
Just like roving, murdering gangs. Which is like

00:32:06.140 --> 00:32:08.259
what it always has been except that there's just

00:32:08.259 --> 00:32:11.400
like this layer of distance between the gangs.

00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:15.559
That's one of my favorite things about the movie

00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:17.819
is just like how well it kind of sets up these

00:32:17.819 --> 00:32:21.740
like archetypes. Of, like, the scientist and

00:32:21.740 --> 00:32:25.259
the politician and the general and the rebel.

00:32:26.539 --> 00:32:28.460
And then how those all kind of played out. But

00:32:28.460 --> 00:32:30.920
why the fuck wasn't, like, the religious fanatic

00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:32.700
there? You know what I mean? Like, those are

00:32:32.700 --> 00:32:35.039
the things I miss. Like, I really do. I miss

00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:38.420
Lady Miyako. Well, they're very disrespectful

00:32:38.420 --> 00:32:40.279
to Lady Miyako. No, it's awesome. That's actually

00:32:40.279 --> 00:32:42.359
the best part is that when she does show up,

00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:44.839
they immediately just, like, vaporize her. She

00:32:44.839 --> 00:32:47.980
gets, like, she's falling off of the bridge that

00:32:47.980 --> 00:32:51.579
Tetsuro's collapsing. And then a car just comes

00:32:51.579 --> 00:32:54.680
and slides her off. That was your character.

00:32:54.740 --> 00:32:55.799
That was it. That was one of the main characters.

00:32:55.849 --> 00:32:58.849
characters honestly i was like when i when i

00:32:58.849 --> 00:33:00.950
initially saw the movie i was almost positive

00:33:00.950 --> 00:33:04.029
that character was a man yeah yeah and it wasn't

00:33:04.029 --> 00:33:07.789
until in english it's like yeah okay well it's

00:33:07.789 --> 00:33:11.930
when uh when we first see takashi in in the anime

00:33:11.930 --> 00:33:14.630
and he's he's running with that guy and that

00:33:14.630 --> 00:33:17.150
guy gets like absolutely fucking vaporized yeah

00:33:17.150 --> 00:33:19.049
i thought that was ryu at first yeah yeah it

00:33:19.049 --> 00:33:22.930
looks exactly like oh no That's the guy that

00:33:22.930 --> 00:33:24.910
looks like Ryu who gets killed early in the manga,

00:33:25.009 --> 00:33:27.150
right? Yeah, but he doesn't look nearly as much

00:33:27.150 --> 00:33:31.670
like Ryu. It's the doubling up of models in the

00:33:31.670 --> 00:33:35.309
anime is fucking, it's so funny. There's another

00:33:35.309 --> 00:33:37.410
guy who also looks exactly like Ryu who didn't

00:33:37.410 --> 00:33:40.250
die in that scene. There's like three Ryu's.

00:33:40.369 --> 00:33:42.390
They're like standing next to each other and

00:33:42.390 --> 00:33:44.589
they have the same exact mustache, the same face.

00:33:44.750 --> 00:33:48.089
One of them's wearing a hat. I feel like it happens

00:33:48.089 --> 00:33:49.730
all the time with the colonel too where I'll

00:33:49.730 --> 00:33:51.670
be like, that's the colonel. It's some dude with

00:33:51.670 --> 00:33:53.950
like a little mustache and a tight crew cut.

00:33:54.109 --> 00:33:57.410
And then it's like, no, that's some other bureaucrat.

00:33:59.059 --> 00:34:00.920
Yeah, there's a lot of that in the manga, too.

00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:02.920
Yeah, that's definitely a choice in the manga,

00:34:03.019 --> 00:34:05.519
too. It's like instead of kind of choosing to

00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:07.339
like be like, OK, this is the character. Here's

00:34:07.339 --> 00:34:09.480
his uniform. And you kind of tell them apart.

00:34:10.019 --> 00:34:11.880
Instead, it's like, no, we're going to have them

00:34:11.880 --> 00:34:15.000
change outfits like every couple of pages. We're

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.639
going to keep like and everybody's faces like

00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:20.960
look almost like like Kaneda and Kei have the

00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:24.340
same face. Over in the same haircut. You know

00:34:24.340 --> 00:34:28.119
what I mean? I'm very impressed with how easily

00:34:28.119 --> 00:34:30.860
I could tell them apart reading it. Even though

00:34:30.860 --> 00:34:33.539
they're almost identical, there's always something.

00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:37.019
It is just craft -wise. He does a good job as

00:34:37.019 --> 00:34:40.340
a writer. He'll tell you... I think it's early

00:34:40.340 --> 00:34:43.019
in book three or early in book four. It has to

00:34:43.019 --> 00:34:44.920
be book three. There's a conversation between

00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:50.210
Kay and Nezu where he's like... And she's like,

00:34:50.230 --> 00:34:52.329
Nezu. It's like, you were brother Rio. And it's

00:34:52.329 --> 00:34:53.590
like, they're not brother and sister, but to

00:34:53.590 --> 00:34:56.110
be like ideological brother and kin or whatever,

00:34:56.210 --> 00:34:57.829
whatever the fuck. They were pretending to be

00:34:57.829 --> 00:35:01.530
brother and sister. Theoretically. Yeah. It was

00:35:01.530 --> 00:35:03.130
like, it was like as their cover. Yeah. It was

00:35:03.130 --> 00:35:06.630
like a pornhub situation. It's, you know, like

00:35:06.630 --> 00:35:09.889
they, he does a pretty decent job through dialogue

00:35:09.889 --> 00:35:12.829
of expositing in a way that's like, Hey, this

00:35:12.829 --> 00:35:18.309
is incredibly like aesthetically busy. So. I

00:35:18.309 --> 00:35:21.110
don't get bothered by those little reminders

00:35:21.110 --> 00:35:27.730
of exposition. It has a function. Totally. That

00:35:27.730 --> 00:35:31.090
stuff wouldn't play as well in the anime, but

00:35:31.090 --> 00:35:34.070
the anime has the advantage of having color and

00:35:34.070 --> 00:35:35.809
all these other things. At the same time, the

00:35:35.809 --> 00:35:38.849
anime does it too. The anime does it too. Everybody

00:35:38.849 --> 00:35:41.789
screams each other's names the entire time. A

00:35:41.789 --> 00:35:46.309
little bit. Takashi! Kaneda! Tetsuo! If you drank

00:35:46.309 --> 00:35:49.710
every time that just Kaneda and Tetsuo say each

00:35:49.710 --> 00:35:51.889
other's names, you would be loaded in like 25

00:35:51.889 --> 00:35:53.630
minutes. You wouldn't make it to the end. Yeah,

00:35:53.650 --> 00:35:56.489
that's like the oldest and most common joke about

00:35:56.489 --> 00:36:00.730
the movie. Kaneda! Tetsuo! When I was watching

00:36:00.730 --> 00:36:03.110
it this time though, during the whole final fight,

00:36:03.309 --> 00:36:06.969
I kind of felt like... Kaneda just doesn't really

00:36:06.969 --> 00:36:09.030
want to kill his friend. He's like, Tetsuo, heads

00:36:09.030 --> 00:36:11.829
up! Right before he shoots him and stuff. He

00:36:11.829 --> 00:36:15.730
just keeps giving him a heads up. Also, Tetsuo

00:36:15.730 --> 00:36:18.989
could kill Kaneda so easily. at any moment, and

00:36:18.989 --> 00:36:21.869
also is, like, showing restraint. I think that's

00:36:21.869 --> 00:36:24.110
clear in the manga, too, but I think that he

00:36:24.110 --> 00:36:25.889
highlighted it a little more in the movie to

00:36:25.889 --> 00:36:28.869
make it more clear. Like, when the rocks are

00:36:28.869 --> 00:36:32.090
falling and there's, like, a dome over Kaneda's

00:36:32.090 --> 00:36:33.809
head, but you know that Tetsuro is protecting

00:36:33.809 --> 00:36:36.329
him from the rocks. Like, there's a couple of

00:36:36.329 --> 00:36:38.710
moments that you actually see him actually protecting

00:36:38.710 --> 00:36:40.190
him. Instead of, like, in the manga, it's like,

00:36:40.269 --> 00:36:42.989
we know that he could do this and he's just missing

00:36:42.989 --> 00:36:46.519
or whatever. But... In the movie, it's more clear.

00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:49.119
And I think that's definitely with Kaneda, too,

00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:51.320
where he screams Tetsuo before he shoots every

00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:53.599
time. Whereas in the manga, if he says Tetsuo,

00:36:53.699 --> 00:36:56.820
you don't know when he said it. In the anime,

00:36:56.940 --> 00:36:58.940
it's clear. He's like, hey, Tetsuo, coming in

00:36:58.940 --> 00:37:02.699
right now with a bullet, just so you know. From

00:37:02.699 --> 00:37:05.719
your left. That's also kind of an anime and manga

00:37:05.719 --> 00:37:07.539
trope, too, though. You know what I mean? That

00:37:07.539 --> 00:37:11.780
kind of Mr. and Mrs. Smith type of shit. You

00:37:11.780 --> 00:37:13.349
know what I mean? Where it's like... It's all

00:37:13.349 --> 00:37:15.829
spy versus spy where it's like, hey, we're all

00:37:15.829 --> 00:37:17.889
fucking in the game. You know what I mean? Like,

00:37:17.909 --> 00:37:20.570
I'll let you know before I'm about to, like,

00:37:20.590 --> 00:37:22.510
blow your head off. Like, I don't know. I don't

00:37:22.510 --> 00:37:24.010
want to tie that to, like. Use this power. Super

00:37:24.010 --> 00:37:26.809
Scion, whatever. Yeah. Do it. Yeah. I want to

00:37:26.809 --> 00:37:29.070
give you a chance to get out of this. I'm not.

00:37:29.269 --> 00:37:31.369
This is, like, it's also, like, it's unhonorable,

00:37:31.449 --> 00:37:34.590
right? Exactly. It would be dishonorable to,

00:37:34.630 --> 00:37:36.429
like. It would be very dishonorable. Yeah. I

00:37:36.429 --> 00:37:37.929
mean, like, you think about, like, the moments

00:37:37.929 --> 00:37:42.159
in. all dishonorable moments are punished you

00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:44.139
know what i mean like you think about like when

00:37:44.139 --> 00:37:46.460
ryu fucking kills akira at the end of the book

00:37:46.460 --> 00:37:48.519
you know what i mean like he's immediately it's

00:37:48.519 --> 00:37:50.280
like oh you like this guy doesn't matter he's

00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:52.880
punished for it it's like because like he's he

00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:56.619
killed a kid like mr mr nezu killing you 100

00:37:56.619 --> 00:38:02.159
immediately done yes for that yep it's uh i don't

00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:05.340
know like this it yeah like that is it's i think

00:38:05.340 --> 00:38:07.320
it's intrinsically tied to like that sense of

00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:09.940
like you can't kind of take a cheap shot at somebody.

00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:12.059
And like, that's kind of what this whole fucking

00:38:12.059 --> 00:38:14.539
book is about. Like every single time where it's

00:38:14.539 --> 00:38:16.400
like, Oh, boot up the big satellite. That'll

00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:18.320
kill them without knowing. It's like, Oh, not

00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:21.019
fair. Can't do it that way. And it's like, Oh,

00:38:21.179 --> 00:38:26.739
okay. I don't know. Like no one, no, no one that

00:38:26.739 --> 00:38:30.019
we know dies from the soul fucking thing. You

00:38:30.019 --> 00:38:34.539
know what I mean? Like. That's true. A lot of

00:38:34.539 --> 00:38:37.619
rocks get hit. A literal god hammer and it doesn't

00:38:37.619 --> 00:38:43.059
kill anyone. The colonel doesn't even choose

00:38:43.059 --> 00:38:47.440
to use that until it's like the last resort in

00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:50.159
the movie. They've tried everything they can

00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:53.980
to stop Tetsuo that whole way and then basically

00:38:53.980 --> 00:38:56.880
his whole army has been wiped out. He's just

00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:01.500
like, alright, fine, we'll use soul. I don't

00:39:01.500 --> 00:39:04.219
know. This just came into my mind because I'm

00:39:04.219 --> 00:39:09.820
stupid. But I hadn't really put the kind of world

00:39:09.820 --> 00:39:14.059
government thing and how this obviously both

00:39:14.059 --> 00:39:17.099
the book and the show or the movie are pushing

00:39:17.099 --> 00:39:23.480
against the Olympics as the emergence of a new

00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:26.000
Japan back onto the world stage. Exactly. Like

00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:29.449
this westernized version. of it to be like that's

00:39:29.449 --> 00:39:33.590
where we hide our most dangerous weapons you

00:39:33.590 --> 00:39:35.570
know what i mean like i i don't know i i hadn't

00:39:35.570 --> 00:39:37.530
kind of put that together i mean it's the denver

00:39:37.530 --> 00:39:40.829
airport the the great olympics right like that's

00:39:40.829 --> 00:39:43.590
it's just like oh well underneath this thing

00:39:43.590 --> 00:39:45.969
is this huge project that nobody really it's

00:39:45.969 --> 00:39:47.969
like what is this a water treatment facility

00:39:47.969 --> 00:39:51.429
like all right like why do we need all these

00:39:51.429 --> 00:39:53.929
tunnels under the denver airport like all right

00:39:55.260 --> 00:39:57.400
As a side note, it's incredibly prescient that

00:39:57.400 --> 00:39:59.539
the Tokyo Olympics actually did take place in

00:39:59.539 --> 00:40:02.980
2020. In fact, it's not. I think those are planned

00:40:02.980 --> 00:40:04.840
like 50 years from now. Hey, you guys, shouldn't

00:40:04.840 --> 00:40:07.719
the Beijing Olympics have been in Wuhan, China?

00:40:08.579 --> 00:40:11.539
I'm pretty sure those are all like they knew

00:40:11.539 --> 00:40:14.019
when Akira was being written that they had made

00:40:14.019 --> 00:40:15.559
that up. They knew already it would happen. Okay,

00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:18.960
okay. Yeah. Scratch that. I'm an idiot. It was

00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:21.760
in the future when this thing that we planned

00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:24.570
happens. Like it's, you know. But I mean, weren't

00:40:24.570 --> 00:40:30.469
there Tokyo Olympics in the 80s? Were there?

00:40:30.869 --> 00:40:34.309
I don't know. Delete all this. That was a bad

00:40:34.309 --> 00:40:36.190
site, Nate. Hold on one second, though. Can I

00:40:36.190 --> 00:40:40.070
pee while we take this delay? No. I'll be right

00:40:40.070 --> 00:40:47.590
back. He's like running. He doesn't want to waste

00:40:47.590 --> 00:40:49.730
any more time. I don't blame him. Yeah. He's

00:40:49.730 --> 00:40:52.050
an efficient podcaster. Yeah. We're, we're, we're,

00:40:52.050 --> 00:40:54.349
we're almost like 45 minutes in already. So I

00:40:54.349 --> 00:40:57.170
feel, I feel like we haven't, we haven't even,

00:40:57.170 --> 00:40:59.469
we haven't even touched, touched on either of,

00:40:59.469 --> 00:41:02.050
uh, we haven't gotten started, you know? Yeah,

00:41:02.150 --> 00:41:04.389
we've started, but yeah, it's, there's way too

00:41:04.389 --> 00:41:08.429
much to talk about, but honestly, like I, I,

00:41:08.429 --> 00:41:10.989
I like this conversation so far. I sort of prefer

00:41:10.989 --> 00:41:13.409
that the conversation be a larger thing about

00:41:13.409 --> 00:41:15.289
all these things that surround the work rather

00:41:15.289 --> 00:41:17.760
than like, getting into the nitty -gritty of

00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:19.639
the plot mechanics and stuff because all that

00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:22.099
all that stuff kind of just like comes through

00:41:22.099 --> 00:41:24.800
eventually absolutely and anyone can kind of

00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:27.440
cover that right like anyone yeah can read this

00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:30.519
and say oh oh you know like yeah tetsuo tetsuo

00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:34.980
uh tetsuo is is a symbol of of being bullied

00:41:34.980 --> 00:41:37.000
and childhood trauma and shit you know i mean

00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:39.039
a lot of i mean a lot of the really important

00:41:39.039 --> 00:41:41.539
themes have been brought up already you know

00:41:41.539 --> 00:41:44.659
just yeah like the the the themes of masculinity

00:41:45.630 --> 00:41:52.190
with Tetsuo and Kaneda and the post -war insecurities

00:41:52.190 --> 00:41:57.510
regarding the atomic bomb. Akira represents that

00:41:57.510 --> 00:41:59.809
shift in the culture more than anything. It is

00:41:59.809 --> 00:42:02.230
a literal atomic bomb that begins the movie and

00:42:02.230 --> 00:42:07.409
just wipes out Tokyo. Almost literal. Are we

00:42:07.409 --> 00:42:10.789
back? Yeah, we're back. I would say almost literal.

00:42:11.670 --> 00:42:13.969
but it's not a mushroom cloud. It's specifically

00:42:13.969 --> 00:42:16.650
not an atomic bomb. No, I shouldn't have used

00:42:16.650 --> 00:42:18.389
the word little. I need to stop doing that. It's

00:42:18.389 --> 00:42:20.130
a figurative atomic bomb. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

00:42:20.210 --> 00:42:23.949
I mean, just like the imagery that begins the

00:42:23.949 --> 00:42:26.690
movie is the imagery of an explosion that wipes

00:42:26.690 --> 00:42:29.469
out Tokyo. Yeah, yeah. And it's not a mushroom

00:42:29.469 --> 00:42:32.929
cloud, yes, but it's the same vibe, you know?

00:42:32.949 --> 00:42:36.710
It's the same idea that this... I mean, the idea

00:42:36.710 --> 00:42:41.019
of... Colonel having all these arguments with

00:42:41.019 --> 00:42:44.960
the scientists about man meddling in these things

00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:47.460
that they don't understand, I just think tracks

00:42:47.460 --> 00:42:50.159
really well with the Oppenheimer idea and this

00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:53.760
idea that we're messing with these powers and

00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:58.320
forces that are wrought upon the world without

00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:02.639
very much forethought. Totally. Without acknowledging

00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:04.980
the consequences of what it could do to societies

00:43:04.980 --> 00:43:08.309
and peoples. But I think one of the things that's

00:43:08.309 --> 00:43:10.110
really interesting is, like, in the West, we've

00:43:10.110 --> 00:43:12.389
got Oppenheimer, right? Like, we can kind of

00:43:12.389 --> 00:43:15.050
think of that story. Japan didn't make the fucking

00:43:15.050 --> 00:43:17.329
atomic bomb. Again, it's another thing that,

00:43:17.369 --> 00:43:21.150
you know, the West did. But they don't have a

00:43:21.150 --> 00:43:23.550
bunch of scientists that were anywhere near doing

00:43:23.550 --> 00:43:25.429
that. What their scientists were up to in World

00:43:25.429 --> 00:43:28.769
War II was Mengele shit. That is what the Japanese

00:43:28.769 --> 00:43:30.289
scientists, they were not working on the nuclear

00:43:30.289 --> 00:43:33.230
program or the V2 rocket program or whatever.

00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:36.619
They were working on, like, weird, fucked up,

00:43:36.619 --> 00:43:40.159
like, psychic torture stuff. Like, how much,

00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:43.699
like, how frozen can you make someone's arm before

00:43:43.699 --> 00:43:46.099
you shatter it off and whatnot? And, like, how

00:43:46.099 --> 00:43:48.519
much, like, torture can a human being endure?

00:43:48.820 --> 00:43:52.179
And, like, drugs and psych... Like, the type

00:43:52.179 --> 00:43:53.980
of fucked up Mengele shit that they were doing

00:43:53.980 --> 00:43:56.800
is, like, really, if they... Instead of talking

00:43:56.800 --> 00:43:59.400
about the nuclear program and Oppenheimer and

00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:03.690
all of these... Ashkenazis and Nazis and whoever

00:44:03.690 --> 00:44:06.130
else that got together and created this bomb.

00:44:06.510 --> 00:44:08.809
Japan doesn't have that tradition, but they do

00:44:08.809 --> 00:44:11.989
have like all of the fucked up science that they

00:44:11.989 --> 00:44:14.590
were doing. Ubermenschian tradition of human

00:44:14.590 --> 00:44:17.369
experimentation. Exactly. Exactly. And that is

00:44:17.369 --> 00:44:19.750
like, instead of thinking like, okay, well, what

00:44:19.750 --> 00:44:21.269
are the technological advancements that made

00:44:21.269 --> 00:44:22.570
their way to the atomic bomb? It's like, it's

00:44:22.570 --> 00:44:25.010
kind of like, well, what if the Japanese thing

00:44:25.010 --> 00:44:28.050
became something like the atomic bomb? Like,

00:44:28.090 --> 00:44:29.349
how did we get from that to that? It's like,

00:44:29.369 --> 00:44:31.960
well, through, like, mentally torturing some

00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:34.639
teenager and, like, abducting children and doing

00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:36.880
these things. Like, this is all, I mean, we,

00:44:36.940 --> 00:44:38.820
like I was saying with the Denver airport and

00:44:38.820 --> 00:44:41.139
stuff, like, we in the West have, like, a tradition

00:44:41.139 --> 00:44:44.639
of, like, a lot of these sort of conspiracy theories

00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:46.619
that we all are sort of aware of and familiar

00:44:46.619 --> 00:44:48.539
with or whatever. Japan doesn't really have the

00:44:48.539 --> 00:44:52.659
same, you know, canon of conspiracy theories

00:44:52.659 --> 00:44:54.980
and whatnot, but they do have, like, a huge history

00:44:54.980 --> 00:44:57.099
of all of that type of weird, fucked up stuff,

00:44:57.139 --> 00:44:59.000
like, whether it be their cults or their whatever,

00:44:59.059 --> 00:45:01.880
like. There's a lot of that stuff that Akira

00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:04.380
really like, especially in the manga, but in

00:45:04.380 --> 00:45:06.539
the movie, too, like really exploits and like

00:45:06.539 --> 00:45:08.159
really gets into in a way that's like this is

00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:11.400
not a Western idea. Like, you know what I mean?

00:45:11.420 --> 00:45:13.539
I mean, in the West, maybe some of our like MKUltra

00:45:13.539 --> 00:45:19.710
stuff and and and like. roswell stuff you know

00:45:19.710 --> 00:45:22.449
theoretically the the mk ultra human experiments

00:45:22.449 --> 00:45:24.449
that created these weird little alien people

00:45:24.449 --> 00:45:26.329
that could fly this thing or whatever like whatever

00:45:26.329 --> 00:45:29.369
those things are maybe kind of connected the

00:45:29.369 --> 00:45:31.710
man who stared goats and the jedi knights right

00:45:31.710 --> 00:45:33.510
like those are those are all kind of the same

00:45:33.510 --> 00:45:35.989
but like this is a much more japanese kind of

00:45:35.989 --> 00:45:39.489
version of that where yeah it's it's really based

00:45:39.489 --> 00:45:41.530
in that sort of like their scientists are not

00:45:41.530 --> 00:45:43.349
like these nerds in this room they're kind of

00:45:43.349 --> 00:45:45.750
like these weird mongolese like all of them in

00:45:45.750 --> 00:45:49.440
this movie And in the manga, too. And I love

00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:51.559
in the manga that the first scientist dies just

00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:55.920
by freezing and shit. Yeah, Dr. Wily. Yeah, yeah.

00:45:56.079 --> 00:46:00.599
He sounds like Mr. Conductor from Thomas the

00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:03.059
Tank Engine. He does. He sounds like George Carlin,

00:46:03.079 --> 00:46:06.309
right? This is the creation of the universe.

00:46:06.409 --> 00:46:09.849
It's so distracting to me. But I wanted to apologize

00:46:09.849 --> 00:46:12.570
to the people of Korea. The 1988 Olympics were

00:46:12.570 --> 00:46:15.750
in Seoul. So that's what I was thinking of. But

00:46:15.750 --> 00:46:19.369
also, you know, strike one on the Asian racism

00:46:19.369 --> 00:46:22.690
card for me. But the other part of that is...

00:46:22.690 --> 00:46:24.670
You already stepped aside and said that you weren't

00:46:24.670 --> 00:46:27.510
an Asian racist. So we'll let that one fly. I

00:46:27.510 --> 00:46:31.269
will say, it does stand though, right? I think

00:46:31.269 --> 00:46:33.780
for Otomo to see... The same thing happening

00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:37.079
in Korea, like this incredibly like weirdly occupied,

00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:41.400
like westernized influence, like rewriting their

00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:43.420
history and then being like, yup, here they are.

00:46:43.460 --> 00:46:45.860
Here are the Koreans. Building all these giant

00:46:45.860 --> 00:46:48.480
things to just for this little temporary show.

00:46:48.739 --> 00:46:52.380
Yup. Like, yeah, like the 20th and 21st century

00:46:52.380 --> 00:46:54.519
South Korea is like a billboard for new Pepsi.

00:46:55.230 --> 00:46:58.070
Um, and yeah, like, yeah, Otomo was like, yeah,

00:46:58.090 --> 00:47:00.050
so that's why I'll put fucking Canon on the bikes.

00:47:00.110 --> 00:47:01.730
You know, I mean, Canon's a Japanese company

00:47:01.730 --> 00:47:04.030
though. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, I think, I think

00:47:04.030 --> 00:47:06.989
a lot of, I'm not sure about this. I did, I did

00:47:06.989 --> 00:47:09.170
preliminary research, so I'm not exactly sure,

00:47:09.230 --> 00:47:13.070
but I, I heard somewhere that a lot of those

00:47:13.070 --> 00:47:15.420
things on his bikes are actually like, um, product

00:47:15.420 --> 00:47:17.800
placement that people put money into this movie

00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:19.840
and that they got a sticker on the bike it's

00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:22.119
actually kind of um because this was an incredibly

00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:25.159
expensive project no anime had ever done something

00:47:25.159 --> 00:47:27.860
this big and stuff so it was yeah none of that

00:47:27.860 --> 00:47:29.719
none of that stuff was on his bike in the manga

00:47:29.719 --> 00:47:32.320
right yeah yeah he's got other stuff on his bike

00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:34.400
but i don't think it's it's it's not the same

00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:37.280
but it's not yeah specific company logos yeah

00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:40.059
i think it's kind of wild that we've almost almost

00:47:40.059 --> 00:47:41.780
gotten an hour into this and we haven't talked

00:47:41.780 --> 00:47:45.449
about the homoeroticism of it all At the very

00:47:45.449 --> 00:47:49.670
end of the manga, there's this one frame where

00:47:49.670 --> 00:47:55.230
Kei says, Kaneda is inside Tetsuo, and she just

00:47:55.230 --> 00:47:59.230
looks horrified. To me, it's one of the best

00:47:59.230 --> 00:48:08.349
frames of the whole thing. In the movie, he can't

00:48:08.349 --> 00:48:12.760
control himself and crushes Kairi. But like Canada

00:48:12.760 --> 00:48:15.019
gets out, he doesn't crush him. Well, he keeps

00:48:15.019 --> 00:48:17.260
telling him to leave too. And it's like, it's,

00:48:17.260 --> 00:48:19.440
it's kind of does like, it's kind of does like,

00:48:19.460 --> 00:48:23.920
no, I'm staying inside you. Yo, yo, yo, do you

00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:28.940
make me boss? And then he, and then he, he fires

00:48:28.940 --> 00:48:31.480
the laser gun from inside and busts out. Yeah.

00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:35.980
Yes. All right, guys, we've solved it. Podcast

00:48:35.980 --> 00:48:39.460
over. Well, it is really, it is super homoerotic.

00:48:39.559 --> 00:48:42.239
It's totally a bros before hoes mentality the

00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:43.840
whole time. Like literally they're just telling

00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:45.739
their girlfriends to shut up. That's the other

00:48:45.739 --> 00:48:48.260
Western element, right? They are literally just

00:48:48.260 --> 00:48:51.420
like a gang of like outsider fucking horsemen.

00:48:51.639 --> 00:48:55.300
But like, yeah, you know, and they can't be domesticated.

00:48:55.420 --> 00:48:57.079
Think about like the scene where they're coming

00:48:57.079 --> 00:49:00.139
out of school and you know, like. all kaneda

00:49:00.139 --> 00:49:02.840
wants is like k's attention but then like these

00:49:02.840 --> 00:49:04.940
five groupies are all just like tell us about

00:49:04.940 --> 00:49:06.880
your sick friend let us suck your dick for free

00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:09.000
and they're like get away from me bitch and it's

00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:12.599
like that is that is the absolute like that is

00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:14.800
the heart of the western genre you know what

00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:17.199
i mean like these men can't be tamed and it's

00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:19.679
like you can you can either kill them or you

00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:21.940
can you know ride them hard until you domesticate

00:49:21.940 --> 00:49:24.400
them but those are the only two ways yeah and

00:49:24.400 --> 00:49:28.440
tetsuo shows a lot more vulnerability towards

00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:31.199
carrie and in the manga and i guess she wasn't

00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:32.780
his girlfriend initially in the manga either

00:49:32.780 --> 00:49:34.760
she's just some groupie picks up and kind of

00:49:34.760 --> 00:49:37.039
like kind of ends up being partial to her or

00:49:37.039 --> 00:49:39.980
whatever yeah he's his aid picks her up he he

00:49:39.980 --> 00:49:42.659
she's like trying to get free food for her dad

00:49:42.659 --> 00:49:45.699
and he's like no come with me and then when tetsuo

00:49:45.699 --> 00:49:48.320
gives the pills to all the girls she doesn't

00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:51.360
take hers so then she kind of ends up yeah and

00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:53.380
then like immediately she takes like the role

00:49:53.380 --> 00:49:56.340
of like dead mother obviously like administering

00:49:56.340 --> 00:49:59.079
his his pills. But like, I think it's like the

00:49:59.079 --> 00:50:01.940
third time we ever see her. Tetsuo has gone to

00:50:01.940 --> 00:50:04.920
see Lady Miyako. And when he comes back, she's

00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:07.489
like, Kaori's like. Why didn't you tell me you

00:50:07.489 --> 00:50:09.369
were going? You know, I worry about you. And

00:50:09.369 --> 00:50:11.809
it's like immediately he's like into that domestic

00:50:11.809 --> 00:50:14.829
role. Oh, totally. Totally. Honestly, it's like

00:50:14.829 --> 00:50:17.730
somewhat cute, but sort of fucked up. But like

00:50:17.730 --> 00:50:21.170
I sort of like Tetsuo and Kairi in the in the

00:50:21.170 --> 00:50:23.670
manga a lot. Yeah, I do, too. That relationship's

00:50:23.670 --> 00:50:25.909
super interesting in a way that is not really

00:50:25.909 --> 00:50:28.949
as much in the movie. But I do think it is interesting

00:50:28.949 --> 00:50:32.340
that in the movie. Tetsuo does show kindness

00:50:32.340 --> 00:50:34.699
towards her and like maybe it's just because

00:50:34.699 --> 00:50:36.840
he needs her or whatever like when he comes out

00:50:36.840 --> 00:50:38.920
of the hospital he goes to her first he like

00:50:38.920 --> 00:50:42.039
goes to find her and he talks about trying to

00:50:42.039 --> 00:50:44.000
run away with her or something like that and

00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:46.659
he goes and steals Canada's bike and in all those

00:50:46.659 --> 00:50:48.860
moments he's like he's like you're my girl like

00:50:48.860 --> 00:50:50.300
we're together we're gonna do this let's run

00:50:50.300 --> 00:50:52.719
away together but then the moment Canada shows

00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:55.900
up and he and like saves him and you know they

00:50:55.900 --> 00:50:58.960
the clowns beat kairi up and he's totally in

00:50:58.960 --> 00:51:01.300
this place of weakness and stuff you know he's

00:51:01.300 --> 00:51:03.000
immediately just like the rest of them he's just

00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:06.059
like shut up leave me alone and there's also

00:51:06.059 --> 00:51:08.840
the scene when when you know the they get caught

00:51:08.840 --> 00:51:11.860
and they you know rip kairi's shirt off and then

00:51:11.860 --> 00:51:13.980
punch her in the face tattoo is on the floor

00:51:13.980 --> 00:51:17.559
and says if you touch my bike i'll kill you as

00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:19.559
much as one scratch on that bike i'll kill you

00:51:19.559 --> 00:51:22.679
but also he does say he does say first Kaori,

00:51:22.820 --> 00:51:25.940
what happened? He's concerned because he doesn't

00:51:25.940 --> 00:51:31.179
see her get punched. It isn't as bad as all that,

00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:33.880
but it is the thing that's highlighted is concern

00:51:33.880 --> 00:51:38.260
for the punch. Tetsuo does have a codependent

00:51:38.260 --> 00:51:43.360
relationship with her in both. But ultimately,

00:51:43.539 --> 00:51:49.099
he has a much stronger allegiance toward Kaneda

00:51:49.099 --> 00:51:52.659
than he does. To her, even though she has a dad

00:51:52.659 --> 00:51:54.599
who can't walk, who she's supposed to take care

00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:58.400
of, and she leaves all of her obligations behind

00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:01.199
to take care of this guy who literally crushes

00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:04.760
her. I don't know, man. I've been married for

00:52:04.760 --> 00:52:12.659
13 years. I need me a Kaori. i'd say tetsuo also

00:52:12.659 --> 00:52:15.500
has a codependent relationship with kaneda totally

00:52:15.500 --> 00:52:17.880
and that's part of where the resentment comes

00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:19.940
from that's part of what makes him so angry is

00:52:19.940 --> 00:52:24.460
that he does need kaneda you know and yeah i

00:52:24.460 --> 00:52:26.980
mean kaneda has always been there for him he

00:52:26.980 --> 00:52:30.340
protected him from bullies he returned his toy

00:52:30.340 --> 00:52:32.760
he was the only friend for him he was abandoned

00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:34.820
like tetsuo was abandoned by his parents and

00:52:34.820 --> 00:52:38.730
shit the kaneda was like a good person, a good

00:52:38.730 --> 00:52:41.050
friend who was always there for him. And he's

00:52:41.050 --> 00:52:43.090
always, like, actually a good guy who's doing

00:52:43.090 --> 00:52:44.769
the right thing and protecting the people he

00:52:44.769 --> 00:52:48.289
loves. And, like, yeah, Tetsuo just has so much

00:52:48.289 --> 00:52:49.969
resentment for the fact that he can't be that

00:52:49.969 --> 00:52:52.989
person. And, you know, and we see in the end

00:52:52.989 --> 00:52:56.170
when he, like, calls out to Kaneda for help,

00:52:56.250 --> 00:52:58.170
like, please save me and whatever, that, like,

00:52:58.230 --> 00:53:01.650
yeah, that's still there. He is still that little

00:53:01.650 --> 00:53:05.239
boy, and he needs him. It's like, it's pretty

00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:10.699
sad. I mean, again, this is just getting me thinking

00:53:10.699 --> 00:53:13.579
about just like the, it's just base reading or

00:53:13.579 --> 00:53:15.440
whatever, but it sounds very much like Godzilla,

00:53:15.619 --> 00:53:18.300
where it's just kind of like Tetsuo's Japan is

00:53:18.300 --> 00:53:20.440
this thing that's, you know, very determined

00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:22.420
and it's going to keep going and growing. And

00:53:22.420 --> 00:53:24.380
it's this thing that it's going to go to the

00:53:24.380 --> 00:53:27.000
last living man and whatever. And like, you need

00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:29.260
this thing to stop it. Something's got to stop

00:53:29.260 --> 00:53:30.920
it. It's not going to stop itself. And like,

00:53:30.940 --> 00:53:32.820
it's not that it's bad or whatever. It's just

00:53:32.820 --> 00:53:35.719
like, you know, it's got a little bit of an inferiority

00:53:35.719 --> 00:53:37.360
complex. It doesn't like being cucked by fucking

00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:40.400
Connie all the time or whatever. And like, he's

00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:42.639
trying to show his masculinity and show his warrior

00:53:42.639 --> 00:53:45.179
-ness and his whatever. But it's like, in the

00:53:45.179 --> 00:53:46.699
end, what does he really need is for somebody

00:53:46.699 --> 00:53:48.380
to just be like, yeah, we need to drop a nuke

00:53:48.380 --> 00:53:49.980
on you and let you guys settle the fuck down.

00:53:50.539 --> 00:53:54.480
Just like, you know. Settle down. The woman is

00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:56.599
acting up to slap her in her face and then she's

00:53:56.599 --> 00:53:58.579
like, oh, thank you. I was getting out of hand.

00:53:59.300 --> 00:54:02.849
Yeah, seriously. That sort of trope. Just need

00:54:02.849 --> 00:54:06.610
a little daddy. Know your place. Daddy America.

00:54:06.769 --> 00:54:09.349
And I guess that could get into, that is a huge

00:54:09.349 --> 00:54:11.170
difference in the manga, is the involvement of

00:54:11.170 --> 00:54:13.789
the Americans is much more explicit. Well, and

00:54:13.789 --> 00:54:17.630
the Russians. All the scientists on the boat

00:54:17.630 --> 00:54:20.929
are the Russians. Which, can I take a really

00:54:20.929 --> 00:54:23.590
quick, just like, unrelated aside that we may

00:54:23.590 --> 00:54:24.989
want to cut out. Does anybody know what the fuck

00:54:24.989 --> 00:54:28.260
happened with... Dr. Sanders, was it? Dr. Simmons?

00:54:28.579 --> 00:54:29.739
Simmons. No, he lives. What the fuck happened

00:54:29.739 --> 00:54:31.519
with Dr. Simmons? He lives. Yeah, but what happened?

00:54:31.599 --> 00:54:34.119
We have no idea. We don't know how he lives.

00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:36.780
There was a whole scene of them putting Dr. Simmons

00:54:36.780 --> 00:54:39.019
on a Zeppelin. Yes. Right? Do you know what that

00:54:39.019 --> 00:54:41.800
was for? No. Okay. And then he goes on the Zeppelin,

00:54:41.820 --> 00:54:43.260
and in the end, when all the other scientists

00:54:43.260 --> 00:54:45.099
live, they're like, oh, what happened to Dr.

00:54:45.239 --> 00:54:46.860
Simmons? And he's like, they're here! He's alive!

00:54:47.199 --> 00:54:48.900
And it's like, but what the fuck was he doing

00:54:48.900 --> 00:54:52.860
in a Zeppelin? It was a Zeppelin. They were setting

00:54:52.860 --> 00:54:54.360
it up and they were like, are you okay, Dr. Simmons?

00:54:54.519 --> 00:54:57.059
I feel so bad. I just did what Otomo wanted me

00:54:57.059 --> 00:54:58.880
to do. You were like, what happened to him? And

00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:01.079
I was like, very clearly, he's alive. And it's

00:55:01.079 --> 00:55:02.539
like, yeah, that's all anyone fucking knows.

00:55:02.980 --> 00:55:05.880
And the highlight is, here's Simmons alive. Nobody

00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:07.659
knows what happened to Dr. Simmons through the

00:55:07.659 --> 00:55:11.139
catastrophe. But I was wondering, was that...

00:55:11.139 --> 00:55:12.820
Because I looked up on the internet, Dr. Simmons.

00:55:13.019 --> 00:55:15.539
Nobody's written anything on the American internet.

00:55:16.119 --> 00:55:18.960
about dr simmons anywhere do you think this was

00:55:18.960 --> 00:55:20.719
a thing that he started and he had a whole idea

00:55:20.719 --> 00:55:22.039
of what was gonna happen with dr simmons and

00:55:22.039 --> 00:55:23.280
then he was like oh i gotta end this and then

00:55:23.280 --> 00:55:24.900
didn't or do you think this was like some sort

00:55:24.900 --> 00:55:28.739
of metaphor for the i don't know well it's it's

00:55:28.739 --> 00:55:31.260
it's definitely it's definitely true that otomo

00:55:31.260 --> 00:55:35.280
the the structure of the manga is definitely

00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:38.420
like He kind of made it up as he went along.

00:55:38.559 --> 00:55:41.159
He didn't know what the ending was going to be

00:55:41.159 --> 00:55:43.980
when he started it. He wrote the first couple

00:55:43.980 --> 00:55:46.179
issues, then they asked for it to be a serial.

00:55:46.760 --> 00:55:49.260
He created some kind of outline, and then the

00:55:49.260 --> 00:55:53.860
more he wrote it, the more the ending changed

00:55:53.860 --> 00:55:56.320
and stuff. Yeah, but Dr. Simmons is in the end

00:55:56.320 --> 00:55:58.440
of the fifth book and then comes back at the

00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:00.699
end of the sixth book. It's not like it's early.

00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:03.059
It's so weird for him to make this like, oh,

00:56:03.099 --> 00:56:05.139
just so you know, this guy's important. No, he's

00:56:05.139 --> 00:56:09.800
not. I just think that that speaks to some of

00:56:09.800 --> 00:56:13.039
his process and how like I don't know he had

00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:15.760
these like production notebooks and like the

00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:18.739
entire story is like written out on two pages

00:56:18.739 --> 00:56:22.539
and he used that to like then map out all the

00:56:22.539 --> 00:56:25.400
panels and he would say that like there's like

00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:29.440
you know one line of this like production notebook

00:56:29.440 --> 00:56:32.599
leads to 50 pages of work or whatever you know

00:56:32.599 --> 00:56:34.940
and he is just kind of like figuring it out as

00:56:34.940 --> 00:56:37.500
he goes along and like going from one thing to

00:56:37.500 --> 00:56:40.119
the next the movie had to be different like he

00:56:40.119 --> 00:56:42.300
had to write the ending first in the movie and

00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:45.159
like he had to know where it was going and to

00:56:45.159 --> 00:56:48.619
like truncate his work into like a less than

00:56:48.619 --> 00:56:50.719
two hour experience but that's what I'm saying

00:56:50.719 --> 00:56:52.719
Dr. Simmons was like when he was already making

00:56:52.719 --> 00:56:55.170
the movie You know what I mean? Dr. Simmons is

00:56:55.170 --> 00:56:58.309
post -movie. It's post -movie. Yeah, okay. Because

00:56:58.309 --> 00:57:02.409
he stopped that episode at issue 88. And then

00:57:02.409 --> 00:57:06.289
he had an additional 32 issues after that. It's

00:57:06.289 --> 00:57:09.170
like Simmons literally comes in after he's already

00:57:09.170 --> 00:57:12.070
finished the movie. Yeah, I don't know. So what

00:57:12.070 --> 00:57:14.750
the fuck is Simmons? I don't know. It's so weird.

00:57:15.050 --> 00:57:17.469
That's what this whole podcast is trying to understand.

00:57:17.829 --> 00:57:21.090
The whole point of it here is Dr. Simmons. Honestly,

00:57:21.250 --> 00:57:24.960
it's like I... this was the second time I read

00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:27.460
through the manga and I didn't do it very quickly

00:57:27.460 --> 00:57:29.719
and I didn't take any notes. And honestly, like

00:57:29.719 --> 00:57:34.079
a lot of the manga, just like for me, like I

00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:36.119
just lose it really quickly because so much of

00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:40.199
it is just like plot and just plot minutia. And

00:57:40.199 --> 00:57:44.840
I had a really hard time like holding on to characters,

00:57:44.900 --> 00:57:47.760
remembering where I'd seen them last, stuff like

00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:50.420
that. I kind of read all six books over the course

00:57:50.420 --> 00:57:52.119
of like three months or something like that.

00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:56.440
So like, yeah, I just, I had a really hard time

00:57:56.440 --> 00:57:58.059
holding onto things. Like there was obviously

00:57:58.059 --> 00:58:01.019
like things out that, you know, themes I picked

00:58:01.019 --> 00:58:03.559
up on and meanings I picked up on, but like,

00:58:03.559 --> 00:58:06.000
I don't remember the names of any of those fucking

00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:08.820
characters on the, on the aircraft carrier or

00:58:08.820 --> 00:58:11.519
what they were doing or why it even mattered

00:58:11.519 --> 00:58:14.079
at all. Like, I don't miss any of that stuff

00:58:14.079 --> 00:58:17.139
in the movie, you know, but like, I do think

00:58:17.139 --> 00:58:20.800
there's stuff there and like, It does add so

00:58:20.800 --> 00:58:24.840
much more texture to the book and detail that

00:58:24.840 --> 00:58:29.079
the movie lacks. I think a lot of these asides,

00:58:29.199 --> 00:58:32.400
these tangents or whatever, even though they

00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:36.460
may not contribute to the final point or whatever,

00:58:36.579 --> 00:58:38.159
and you wouldn't want to include them in a movie

00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:40.739
that was trying to be concise, I think that a

00:58:40.739 --> 00:58:44.119
lot of them are such interesting. again very

00:58:44.119 --> 00:58:46.780
Japanese like perspectives and stuff where it's

00:58:46.780 --> 00:58:50.460
like if we were making a you know giant international

00:58:50.460 --> 00:58:52.679
disaster movie or whatever we wouldn't give a

00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:55.480
fuck what the USSR was doing at the time or something

00:58:55.480 --> 00:58:57.400
or if we did it would have some sort of like

00:58:57.400 --> 00:59:00.539
political thing tied into it or whatever but

00:59:00.539 --> 00:59:02.619
like I kind of liked it in Akira it's like well

00:59:02.619 --> 00:59:04.519
there's the Russians and there's the Americans

00:59:04.519 --> 00:59:05.840
and they're basically just doing the same thing

00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:08.019
in a little different way he really tries to

00:59:08.019 --> 00:59:10.840
like have all that and not take it for granted

00:59:10.840 --> 00:59:13.980
yeah Which is cool. I agree. I think that works

00:59:13.980 --> 00:59:16.679
with a lot of the other things that I kind of

00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:19.219
love. Like I was saying, the post -apocalyptic

00:59:19.219 --> 00:59:21.699
wandering around the wasteland thing. We've got

00:59:21.699 --> 00:59:23.760
planned a zombie episode someday or whatever.

00:59:24.059 --> 00:59:27.139
But there's many, many post -apocalyptic American

00:59:27.139 --> 00:59:29.500
movies and science fiction movies and whatnot

00:59:29.500 --> 00:59:31.699
where you've got people just wandering through

00:59:31.699 --> 00:59:34.139
some sort of wasteland and you come across this

00:59:34.139 --> 00:59:36.079
or that. I mean, if there are fucking zombies

00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:37.880
there, it's effectively a wasteland to begin

00:59:37.880 --> 00:59:40.849
with. The dead are risen. Yeah, yeah. But the

00:59:40.849 --> 00:59:43.070
way that we depict that wasteland in the West

00:59:43.070 --> 00:59:46.070
is, like, so kind of, I don't know. Like, I think

00:59:46.070 --> 00:59:47.690
what's weird about Akira is that, like, it's

00:59:47.690 --> 00:59:50.329
been, like, two weeks and everybody is in a cult.

00:59:50.610 --> 00:59:52.010
Like, you know what I mean? Everybody's willing

00:59:52.010 --> 00:59:54.650
to give up their lives for this, like, god leader

00:59:54.650 --> 00:59:57.139
or whatever. That's not something that would

00:59:57.139 --> 00:59:59.440
happen in America. And that's totally like a

00:59:59.440 --> 01:00:03.579
Japanese. Disagree. Completely fucking disagree.

01:00:03.760 --> 01:00:05.480
I don't know, man. I think, I think that like

01:00:05.480 --> 01:00:07.739
there, there are types of charismatic leaders

01:00:07.739 --> 01:00:09.920
and things that I think that are a thing in America.

01:00:10.059 --> 01:00:13.019
But the thing of like, I am immediately like

01:00:13.019 --> 01:00:15.599
willing to lay down my life for the honor of

01:00:15.599 --> 01:00:18.480
being a part of this like thing. But the power

01:00:18.480 --> 01:00:20.869
was exercised right before their eyes. You know

01:00:20.869 --> 01:00:22.269
what I mean? And I think that's the thing. And

01:00:22.269 --> 01:00:24.630
I think that's part of the nuclear metaphor,

01:00:24.789 --> 01:00:26.730
right? Like, why the fuck did they surrender?

01:00:27.150 --> 01:00:30.869
But Miyako, like, I mean, I don't know. I guess

01:00:30.869 --> 01:00:33.190
there's some powers that were, like, Miyako's

01:00:33.190 --> 01:00:34.690
people were showing to or whatever. But I just

01:00:34.690 --> 01:00:37.030
think. Miyako's right. Miyako's right about everything.

01:00:37.230 --> 01:00:39.289
Everything Miyako says is true. And she can't

01:00:39.289 --> 01:00:41.349
stop it anyway. Right. But she's also, like,

01:00:41.369 --> 01:00:44.269
in it for herself. Like, I think about her relationship

01:00:44.269 --> 01:00:46.469
with Sasaki in book three a lot where it's, like,

01:00:46.510 --> 01:00:49.409
she's always, she knows that a bad future is

01:00:49.409 --> 01:00:51.880
coming. And she's like, I'm so sad that I can't

01:00:51.880 --> 01:00:53.940
help you grow into the woman who will, like,

01:00:53.940 --> 01:00:56.300
change the world. And it's like, we're left to

01:00:56.300 --> 01:00:59.159
wonder, like, is that because Miyako knows she's

01:00:59.159 --> 01:01:01.739
sending her off to die? Or is it because she

01:01:01.739 --> 01:01:04.679
knows, Miyako knows that she's going to die and

01:01:04.679 --> 01:01:07.320
won't be able to control Sasaki in the future?

01:01:07.400 --> 01:01:10.480
And it's like, either way, like, the issue here

01:01:10.480 --> 01:01:13.960
for Lady Miyako is that she will not have control

01:01:13.960 --> 01:01:16.940
anymore. Not that something bad is going to happen,

01:01:17.039 --> 01:01:19.159
but that she won't be able to control what is

01:01:19.159 --> 01:01:22.920
bad. And it's like, I think the thing that is

01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:28.360
missed in the movie is that you don't synthesize

01:01:28.360 --> 01:01:32.039
like government bureaucracy, you know, religious

01:01:32.039 --> 01:01:35.400
extremism, and then just like straight up economic

01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:38.679
populism. Just like the three headed hydra that

01:01:38.679 --> 01:01:41.579
has like, that's what Western society brought

01:01:41.579 --> 01:01:44.179
over there. And like, I think that what we do

01:01:44.179 --> 01:01:47.280
get in the manga is like a depth to the colonel's

01:01:47.280 --> 01:01:53.269
hypocrisy. And how he's constantly saying something

01:01:53.269 --> 01:01:56.989
that he deliberately doesn't mean. And then in

01:01:56.989 --> 01:02:00.309
the next panel, it is immediately reversed. Where

01:02:00.309 --> 01:02:02.909
I think about like there's this panel where Nezu

01:02:02.909 --> 01:02:05.730
says like. We need to hit the button? No, it's

01:02:05.730 --> 01:02:08.920
when he says it's in times like these. When you

01:02:08.920 --> 01:02:11.860
need something done, you need to do it yourself.

01:02:12.280 --> 01:02:14.340
And then the next panel, he says, someone have

01:02:14.340 --> 01:02:18.420
my car brought around now. And then in the next

01:02:18.420 --> 01:02:21.000
book, the colonel says, if there's one thing

01:02:21.000 --> 01:02:23.659
I hate, it's someone using the army for their

01:02:23.659 --> 01:02:27.059
own personal gains. And then his driver says,

01:02:27.739 --> 01:02:29.739
sir, you do that all that. And then it cuts off

01:02:29.739 --> 01:02:32.079
and he says, I'll pretend he didn't say that.

01:02:32.699 --> 01:02:37.159
And it's that type of like when you see that,

01:02:37.219 --> 01:02:41.860
like. Everyone who is not a civilian is on the

01:02:41.860 --> 01:02:46.219
take. Like, that type of, like, crony capitalist

01:02:46.219 --> 01:02:49.300
thing that, again, came from... Dude, everyone

01:02:49.300 --> 01:02:51.880
who is a civilian is on a take, too. That's the

01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:54.460
thing. The followers of Lady Miyako are on a

01:02:54.460 --> 01:02:56.760
take. But no, no, no. The followers are not.

01:02:56.960 --> 01:02:59.059
That's the thing. The followers are not. They

01:02:59.059 --> 01:03:00.860
literally die for her with nothing. You know

01:03:00.860 --> 01:03:03.519
what I mean? Like, Chiyoko, like, the resistance

01:03:03.519 --> 01:03:07.480
is even K. and Ryu are pictured as useful idiots.

01:03:07.800 --> 01:03:11.760
They're people who don't know that they're 100%,

01:03:11.760 --> 01:03:14.219
but they're also, they become adherents to Miyako

01:03:14.219 --> 01:03:16.780
too. And they have this dual allegiance to Miyako

01:03:16.780 --> 01:03:20.139
and Nezu too. And like, I think like Miyako and

01:03:20.139 --> 01:03:22.500
Nezu are in cahoots too and whatnot. And all

01:03:22.500 --> 01:03:24.260
of these people are corrupted by their relationships

01:03:24.260 --> 01:03:27.559
to each other. Miyako, Nezu is conservatism,

01:03:27.619 --> 01:03:30.000
even like American conservatism and Miyako is

01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:33.579
liberalism. This idea that there is like, A nice

01:03:33.579 --> 01:03:37.820
way to deal with these really evil problems.

01:03:37.940 --> 01:03:40.480
I don't see Nezu as a conservative at all because

01:03:40.480 --> 01:03:45.400
I see him as the type of guy who is stoking the

01:03:45.400 --> 01:03:48.619
terrorists and whatnot. I see him very much as

01:03:48.619 --> 01:03:51.679
sort of like a... He's like a deep threat. No,

01:03:51.820 --> 01:03:53.400
I just think of him as the type of person who's

01:03:53.400 --> 01:03:57.480
like, I can gain power by creating chaos in the

01:03:57.480 --> 01:03:59.059
streets and I can create chaos in the streets

01:03:59.059 --> 01:04:02.099
by supporting an anti -establishment sort of

01:04:02.099 --> 01:04:05.300
regime. That is literally conservatism. I mean,

01:04:05.380 --> 01:04:08.000
neoconservatism perhaps, I guess. I mean, like

01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:11.559
in America, it's also liberalism currently and

01:04:11.559 --> 01:04:13.340
whatnot. Absolutely. But that's what I'm saying.

01:04:13.400 --> 01:04:15.780
I'm saying like those are the two types of like.

01:04:16.170 --> 01:04:18.590
You know, it's neoliberalism and neoconservatism.

01:04:18.610 --> 01:04:20.230
That is what they represent. You know what I

01:04:20.230 --> 01:04:22.489
mean? Like, you know what I guess? Like, in a

01:04:22.489 --> 01:04:24.309
way, you're right. In a way, I guess you could

01:04:24.309 --> 01:04:25.869
say they're kind of flipped. You know what I

01:04:25.869 --> 01:04:29.429
mean? I would think of her as more conservative

01:04:29.429 --> 01:04:32.570
and him as more liberal. Right. But he's doing

01:04:32.570 --> 01:04:34.909
the thing. Yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe historically.

01:04:34.989 --> 01:04:37.969
But he's doing the thing that, like, is a special

01:04:37.969 --> 01:04:40.949
neoconservative trait, which is, like, I'm just

01:04:40.949 --> 01:04:43.130
telling you the truth, even though it's, like,

01:04:43.130 --> 01:04:46.699
deeply, deeply skewed towards, like. Not the

01:04:46.699 --> 01:04:49.300
truth. You know what I mean? Like, deeply skewed

01:04:49.300 --> 01:04:51.840
towards, like, that personal agenda. Yeah. But

01:04:51.840 --> 01:04:54.679
I think the neoconservative thing of, like, creating

01:04:54.679 --> 01:04:57.300
the enemy and then using that power to attack

01:04:57.300 --> 01:05:00.639
the enemy or whatever, that I could see, but...

01:05:00.639 --> 01:05:02.760
I don't even totally understand... He seems like

01:05:02.760 --> 01:05:05.300
a Bernie Sanders to me, man. I don't know. He

01:05:05.300 --> 01:05:06.980
seems like a guy who's just like, no, all the

01:05:06.980 --> 01:05:08.699
people on the street who are causing chaos, they're

01:05:08.699 --> 01:05:10.420
on my side and whatever, and it's like, well,

01:05:10.480 --> 01:05:13.340
why... It's like, what did Evan say? Like, Evan

01:05:13.340 --> 01:05:15.179
just said, like, we don't understand... I don't

01:05:15.179 --> 01:05:16.760
even understand what Nez's goal is, but, like,

01:05:16.780 --> 01:05:20.159
how does he die in the movie, right? With a suitcase

01:05:20.159 --> 01:05:22.059
full of fucking money. The movie makes it clear

01:05:22.059 --> 01:05:24.500
what his goal is. In the street, yeah. And the

01:05:24.500 --> 01:05:27.119
movie does not make clear what he's up to or

01:05:27.119 --> 01:05:30.340
what he is at all, but it does make clear what

01:05:30.340 --> 01:05:32.659
his goal is. Yeah, that's fair. I don't even

01:05:32.659 --> 01:05:35.280
know how he's connected to anybody else in the

01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:37.639
movie because the movie is so poor at explaining

01:05:37.639 --> 01:05:41.170
any plot details. Yeah, that's true. I know exactly,

01:05:41.250 --> 01:05:44.050
like far more clearly than the comic, like what

01:05:44.050 --> 01:05:47.449
his character is. No, sure, sure. He ultimately

01:05:47.449 --> 01:05:51.510
wants money and power. Like that's simple. But

01:05:51.510 --> 01:05:53.809
I don't really understand the gambit. Like I

01:05:53.809 --> 01:05:56.230
don't understand what he hopes to gain. How he

01:05:56.230 --> 01:05:58.389
thinks he'll get away with it? Yeah, or just

01:05:58.389 --> 01:06:00.530
like what he hopes to gain by supporting this

01:06:00.530 --> 01:06:03.489
terrorist cell that's trying to do what. capture

01:06:03.489 --> 01:06:06.429
akira like does that way that way if you create

01:06:06.429 --> 01:06:08.550
enough chaos in the streets you can be like we

01:06:08.550 --> 01:06:11.070
shouldn't vote this guy in look there's been

01:06:11.070 --> 01:06:13.889
chaos in the streets we need a new like uh like

01:06:13.889 --> 01:06:16.289
a biden or something to fix this yeah the chaos

01:06:16.289 --> 01:06:18.869
in the streets though has very little to do with

01:06:18.869 --> 01:06:22.090
akira until the power is awakened and stuff like

01:06:22.090 --> 01:06:24.789
that i don't know i mean yeah what no but no

01:06:24.789 --> 01:06:26.610
but it does i mean it has to do with the warring

01:06:26.610 --> 01:06:29.250
factions that nezu is controlling if they're

01:06:29.250 --> 01:06:31.269
fighting each other they're not fighting us type

01:06:31.269 --> 01:06:34.230
of thing exactly yeah yeah Maisie gets power

01:06:34.230 --> 01:06:37.610
off of the warring factions warring with each

01:06:37.610 --> 01:06:42.550
other. He's talking to the cults and he's talking

01:06:42.550 --> 01:06:44.670
to the terrorists and he's talking to the politicians

01:06:44.670 --> 01:06:46.530
and he's just making sure that they all keep

01:06:46.530 --> 01:06:49.329
fighting so that they all come back to him. I

01:06:49.329 --> 01:06:50.650
guess it depends on whether we're talking about

01:06:50.650 --> 01:06:52.409
the movie or the book. I guess in the book it's

01:06:52.409 --> 01:06:54.840
a little bit more clear. Kind of what he's doing.

01:06:55.039 --> 01:06:57.820
But I guess, and then I guess that. Kind of,

01:06:57.820 --> 01:06:59.579
but not really. He's like trying to pull a fast

01:06:59.579 --> 01:07:01.199
one on people is what he's doing. But what's

01:07:01.199 --> 01:07:02.900
he trying to pull a fast one on? But like even

01:07:02.900 --> 01:07:05.539
he doesn't know. Like he doesn't know. He's like,

01:07:05.539 --> 01:07:07.940
I'm, yeah, she doesn't know that I'm actually

01:07:07.940 --> 01:07:09.460
going to do this. And it's like, but what are

01:07:09.460 --> 01:07:10.079
you going to do that for? But he fucking kill,

01:07:10.260 --> 01:07:13.420
he shoots Ryu because he thinks like Ryu like

01:07:13.420 --> 01:07:16.980
went to the feds about him being corrupt in government.

01:07:17.159 --> 01:07:19.599
And it's like. that's i don't know i think there's

01:07:19.599 --> 01:07:21.260
really i mean in the movie he shoots ryu because

01:07:21.260 --> 01:07:23.840
he's ashamed like that's like he shoots ryu because

01:07:23.840 --> 01:07:26.599
ryu comes in at the moment where he's like yeah

01:07:26.599 --> 01:07:31.900
yeah and it's like he's he's ashamed and caught

01:07:31.900 --> 01:07:34.619
in like you can see him for what he is and ryu

01:07:34.619 --> 01:07:36.559
doesn't even see him for what he is but like

01:07:36.559 --> 01:07:38.280
the fact that he's there is like well i can't

01:07:38.280 --> 01:07:41.139
i can't live with somebody seeing this or something

01:07:41.139 --> 01:07:43.159
like you know And he also, I think he knows he's

01:07:43.159 --> 01:07:44.840
dying at that point because he's having this

01:07:44.840 --> 01:07:46.840
heart attack. He literally turns red before,

01:07:46.960 --> 01:07:49.179
yeah, before he's like, yeah, he even comes in.

01:07:49.679 --> 01:07:52.420
It's just this weird, pathetic death trip thing.

01:07:53.519 --> 01:07:58.480
I love Nezu. I do. I love his character design.

01:07:58.519 --> 01:08:02.099
I think he's so funny. I just, like, I like when

01:08:02.099 --> 01:08:04.539
he's like handling his assets. You know what

01:08:04.539 --> 01:08:06.659
I mean? Like, I think he's very capable of doing

01:08:06.659 --> 01:08:09.519
it. I think he's kind of, I think it's a shame

01:08:09.519 --> 01:08:13.610
what happens at the end. He's the kid at the

01:08:13.610 --> 01:08:16.689
top of the water tower in Pennsylvania. If he

01:08:16.689 --> 01:08:19.229
had been a tenth of an inch off, he wouldn't

01:08:19.229 --> 01:08:23.770
have brained some dumb talk Takashi. He would

01:08:23.770 --> 01:08:27.890
have gotten the guy. But I guess, in a way, what

01:08:27.890 --> 01:08:31.760
Ryu eventually does is just repeat. what nezu

01:08:31.760 --> 01:08:35.079
does right is like he finishes the job that nezu

01:08:35.079 --> 01:08:38.119
started but it it unleashes a new type of catastrophe

01:08:38.119 --> 01:08:40.460
he's doing it because his friend died like you

01:08:40.460 --> 01:08:42.039
know what i mean he's just like continuing the

01:08:42.039 --> 01:08:44.560
thing because he's this thing happened and i

01:08:44.560 --> 01:08:46.260
started it and it doesn't mean anything if i

01:08:46.260 --> 01:08:49.060
don't like you know yeah he doesn't have a thing

01:08:49.060 --> 01:08:51.239
that he's trying to accomplish and like nezu's

01:08:51.239 --> 01:08:52.880
just doing it for the money and that's not a

01:08:52.880 --> 01:08:54.960
thing he's trying to accomplish either and lady

01:08:54.960 --> 01:08:59.210
miyako is like has no She's just letting things

01:08:59.210 --> 01:09:01.050
happen. Like she's not even intervening. She's

01:09:01.050 --> 01:09:02.649
like, I know that this happens this way. And

01:09:02.649 --> 01:09:05.010
so I have to go here or something like there's

01:09:05.010 --> 01:09:07.109
some, she's playing some sort of game, but what

01:09:07.109 --> 01:09:09.649
she's trying to direct influence, right? Like

01:09:09.649 --> 01:09:12.390
her whole relationship with Nezu is like hoping

01:09:12.390 --> 01:09:15.569
that this guy might actually have some that like

01:09:15.569 --> 01:09:20.390
when he is operating Ryu and K that like some

01:09:20.390 --> 01:09:22.590
of what he says he means, that's what she hopes,

01:09:22.649 --> 01:09:25.869
you know? And it's like, Or at least that he's

01:09:25.869 --> 01:09:29.189
useful enough to get Ryu and Kei to her. She

01:09:29.189 --> 01:09:36.050
sees through the motivations to just what happens.

01:09:37.109 --> 01:09:40.789
Whether he is on her side or not, if it gets

01:09:40.789 --> 01:09:43.510
people into her place trying to kill him, then

01:09:43.510 --> 01:09:45.130
she can talk to those people. Whatever it is

01:09:45.130 --> 01:09:49.760
that brings those things together. I guess, like,

01:09:49.779 --> 01:09:52.560
speaking of Lady Miyako, like, what do we make

01:09:52.560 --> 01:09:55.880
of Kay's clairvoyance? Or, like, do we have anything

01:09:55.880 --> 01:09:58.000
to say about that? I don't know. Everybody has

01:09:58.000 --> 01:10:01.260
the power, man. That's fair enough. You just

01:10:01.260 --> 01:10:02.640
have to unlock it. I think that's one of the

01:10:02.640 --> 01:10:04.100
things that's interesting that I kind of wanted

01:10:04.100 --> 01:10:08.319
to get into was just the idea that the power

01:10:08.319 --> 01:10:09.699
comes from different places in the book and the

01:10:09.699 --> 01:10:12.539
movie, right? Like, in the movie, it's very clear

01:10:12.539 --> 01:10:14.819
that, like, the drugs didn't create this power,

01:10:14.920 --> 01:10:16.439
that it's the collision with... They actually

01:10:16.439 --> 01:10:20.239
suppress it. what yeah they actually and in the

01:10:20.239 --> 01:10:21.939
book they actually suppressed it eventually but

01:10:21.939 --> 01:10:24.520
in the book it's like no we're it was the experiments

01:10:24.520 --> 01:10:29.000
on tetsuo after the initial thing that may have

01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:31.159
awakened him right like but there's there's a

01:10:31.159 --> 01:10:33.760
process of well i mean it was his impact with

01:10:33.760 --> 01:10:38.260
takashi that started it i think right but but

01:10:38.260 --> 01:10:40.199
that this is brought out that's also kind of

01:10:40.199 --> 01:10:43.539
pretty unclear yeah i mean in the in the in in

01:10:43.539 --> 01:10:45.939
the manga there are many there are many like

01:10:46.619 --> 01:10:48.760
telekinesis guys like they're like they're they

01:10:48.760 --> 01:10:51.140
have like the heavy who comes in or whatever

01:10:51.140 --> 01:10:54.520
like they can i mean like some of them are part

01:10:54.520 --> 01:10:57.119
of miyako's crew right like miyako's people can

01:10:57.119 --> 01:11:00.479
all do telekinesis and whatever like it almost

01:11:00.479 --> 01:11:03.220
seems like something that can be reached through

01:11:03.220 --> 01:11:07.100
like meditation basically right just like and

01:11:07.100 --> 01:11:09.220
ritual or it could be something that's sort of

01:11:09.220 --> 01:11:11.800
like you know reach through these more brutal

01:11:11.800 --> 01:11:15.119
methods of experimentation and drug using and

01:11:15.800 --> 01:11:18.340
I don't know. I mean, for me, this really gets

01:11:18.340 --> 01:11:21.100
into just my whole entire like psychedelic worldview

01:11:21.100 --> 01:11:24.020
about. That's exactly what I was going to say.

01:11:24.119 --> 01:11:27.300
I think that it's a very psychedelic idea. Yeah.

01:11:27.380 --> 01:11:31.300
That is very different than other sort of, I

01:11:31.300 --> 01:11:34.010
don't know, supers. power things like this one

01:11:34.010 --> 01:11:36.010
is very specifically a superpower that is brought

01:11:36.010 --> 01:11:39.130
on by a psychedelic drug yes and not just a drug

01:11:39.130 --> 01:11:42.050
but a psychedelic drug like a hallucination drug

01:11:42.050 --> 01:11:44.010
i certainly don't want to derail this before

01:11:44.010 --> 01:11:45.609
we get started but what do we make of the fact

01:11:45.609 --> 01:11:47.369
that the psychedelic drug kills all the women

01:11:47.369 --> 01:11:52.090
i think you handle that shit yeah that's uh i

01:11:52.090 --> 01:11:54.329
think like there's there's two of them there's

01:11:54.329 --> 01:11:57.949
miyako and there's um little uh what's her name

01:11:57.949 --> 01:12:02.880
suzaki yeah no in the bed in the bed Oh, Kyoko.

01:12:03.119 --> 01:12:05.960
Yeah, Kyoko. Kyoko survived. She just lost her

01:12:05.960 --> 01:12:07.760
legs, I guess. Yeah, but like they both become

01:12:07.760 --> 01:12:12.600
like wizened husks. Yeah, but also I think the

01:12:12.600 --> 01:12:14.659
power of the drug matters. That gets brought

01:12:14.659 --> 01:12:17.319
up. There's different like doses and like there's

01:12:17.319 --> 01:12:19.359
different levels of potency that the drugs have.

01:12:19.680 --> 01:12:23.899
I feel like, you know, Tetsuo is just giving

01:12:23.899 --> 01:12:27.220
some real hard shit to those girls. Yeah, you're

01:12:27.220 --> 01:12:29.739
probably right. And making their heads blow up,

01:12:29.760 --> 01:12:32.550
you know. You're just saying their little lady

01:12:32.550 --> 01:12:33.789
brains are not strong enough. Well, I just kind

01:12:33.789 --> 01:12:37.550
of thought like if we're following like the psychedelic

01:12:37.550 --> 01:12:39.569
thing to its logical conclusion where it's like,

01:12:39.569 --> 01:12:43.090
and like even to this day, and I'm not, God damn

01:12:43.090 --> 01:12:44.789
it, I'm not going to put my foot too far in my

01:12:44.789 --> 01:12:47.250
mouth. But I do think like that idea of like

01:12:47.250 --> 01:12:51.409
mind expansion and, you know, what parts of myself

01:12:51.409 --> 01:12:53.750
can I unlock to be optimized? That's like such

01:12:53.750 --> 01:12:56.050
a male thing. You know what I mean? Like, and

01:12:56.050 --> 01:12:59.149
it is to have someone be like all the men who

01:12:59.149 --> 01:13:02.220
take it. They unlock something inside of themselves.

01:13:02.300 --> 01:13:04.520
It might not be good, but when women do it, it's

01:13:04.520 --> 01:13:08.619
quite literally ego death. I just, I don't know.

01:13:08.840 --> 01:13:12.899
Maybe women are already, and obviously I'm not

01:13:12.899 --> 01:13:14.720
saying, I don't necessarily believe what I'm

01:13:14.720 --> 01:13:16.800
saying or whatever, but I guess there's an idea

01:13:16.800 --> 01:13:20.180
that women are already more. Enlightened. Enlightened,

01:13:20.180 --> 01:13:24.420
yeah, and empathetic and connected to the ancient

01:13:24.420 --> 01:13:26.699
memories of the beginning of the universe or

01:13:26.699 --> 01:13:29.829
whatever. I'm holding Mike back right now. That

01:13:29.829 --> 01:13:35.529
they're mothers and they – like I remember learning

01:13:35.529 --> 01:13:37.770
in like philosophy class like this idea that

01:13:37.770 --> 01:13:39.930
like women will become aware of the cycles of

01:13:39.930 --> 01:13:42.529
nature quicker than men because they have to

01:13:42.529 --> 01:13:45.510
deal with like the cycles of their bodies. Sure.

01:13:46.390 --> 01:13:48.970
they become aware of these psychedelic ideas

01:13:48.970 --> 01:13:52.630
earlier. I've known about winter for years, personally.

01:13:54.170 --> 01:13:57.289
Sure, sure. But the cycles of one's body. Just

01:13:57.289 --> 01:14:00.649
like when you have to deal with bleeding every

01:14:00.649 --> 01:14:04.210
month and whatever. And just like how the forces

01:14:04.210 --> 01:14:08.210
of nature control you and you become much more

01:14:08.210 --> 01:14:12.750
subservient to them. They dominate you. And women

01:14:12.750 --> 01:14:16.720
as a species over... all time have had to deal

01:14:16.720 --> 01:14:19.619
with the domination of men and just not really

01:14:19.619 --> 01:14:22.399
having a whole lot of say in the matter, you

01:14:22.399 --> 01:14:24.920
know, and having to like accept and this process

01:14:24.920 --> 01:14:29.380
of acceptance, which is very Buddhist and psychedelic

01:14:29.380 --> 01:14:31.939
as well. Maybe, maybe acceptance, or maybe we're

01:14:31.939 --> 01:14:33.260
talking about top and from the bottom though,

01:14:33.319 --> 01:14:35.119
you know, it really depends on how you want to

01:14:35.119 --> 01:14:36.640
read it. Well, that's what Dune gets into, right?

01:14:36.699 --> 01:14:40.039
Like Dune, the women in Dune are more, they're

01:14:40.039 --> 01:14:42.699
the ones who can, connect to this sort of mental

01:14:42.699 --> 01:14:45.380
abilities and mind reading a lot easier than

01:14:45.380 --> 01:14:48.739
men and whatever. I don't know. Like this, it

01:14:48.739 --> 01:14:51.340
could all just be bullshit and just like based

01:14:51.340 --> 01:14:54.760
on cultural ideas of these things. But I think

01:14:54.760 --> 01:14:57.000
there could be some truth to that. I just don't

01:14:57.000 --> 01:14:58.899
know how much like Otomo is actually getting

01:14:58.899 --> 01:15:01.659
into that or whatever. Right. Right. But I do

01:15:01.659 --> 01:15:03.239
think, I do think for me, it's, for me, it's

01:15:03.239 --> 01:15:05.239
interesting that it's, that it's psychedelic

01:15:05.239 --> 01:15:07.979
and just in general, just because like there

01:15:07.979 --> 01:15:11.859
is sort of that acid idea of like, well you know

01:15:11.859 --> 01:15:13.920
if i believed enough that i could walk through

01:15:13.920 --> 01:15:15.960
this wall then i could just do it or something

01:15:15.960 --> 01:15:18.680
if you just open your mind to this idea then

01:15:18.680 --> 01:15:20.720
you could be a millionaire in seconds or whatever

01:15:20.720 --> 01:15:22.720
we could just become the thing that is whatever

01:15:22.720 --> 01:15:25.000
it is that we want to be if only we could get

01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:29.380
past that thing and like That idea that is just

01:15:29.380 --> 01:15:31.060
sort of a psychedelic acid idea or whatever,

01:15:31.180 --> 01:15:33.880
it's like, oh, wait. But then if you go too far,

01:15:34.020 --> 01:15:36.260
it's ego death and you just melt into the all

01:15:36.260 --> 01:15:38.340
one. Exactly. And you go back to the beginning

01:15:38.340 --> 01:15:40.619
of the universe and your whole reality deconstructs.

01:15:41.159 --> 01:15:43.640
But here's what I was thinking the other day,

01:15:43.680 --> 01:15:47.060
though, man. I've watched a friend who was on

01:15:47.060 --> 01:15:49.579
way too much acid who just realized, oh, wait,

01:15:49.760 --> 01:15:51.600
we could be millionaires in seconds. And they're

01:15:51.600 --> 01:15:53.100
just having this incredible moment. Who was that?

01:15:54.760 --> 01:15:57.260
I don't know. They're having this incredible

01:15:57.260 --> 01:15:58.819
moment of like, oh, well, I could do this. I

01:15:58.819 --> 01:16:00.460
could do anything that I could think of. And

01:16:00.460 --> 01:16:01.640
it's like, yeah, well, what's happening is your

01:16:01.640 --> 01:16:04.739
brain is just, what if instead of worrying about

01:16:04.739 --> 01:16:06.739
the lack of possibility here, we just gave them

01:16:06.739 --> 01:16:08.979
all the serotonin instead? So like everything

01:16:08.979 --> 01:16:10.380
you think of is like, oh, well, that's happening

01:16:10.380 --> 01:16:11.439
and that's happening. Your brain's just like,

01:16:11.460 --> 01:16:13.260
we just surpassed the whole reality thing and

01:16:13.260 --> 01:16:15.319
give you the serotonin. But my thing is like,

01:16:15.399 --> 01:16:17.560
if you heard that, if you were watching that

01:16:17.560 --> 01:16:18.500
person, you're like, we could be millionaires

01:16:18.500 --> 01:16:20.699
in seconds. And you're like, wait, fuck, okay,

01:16:20.779 --> 01:16:22.920
we got him. Get this kid, get him in a room.

01:16:23.289 --> 01:16:25.930
Pump him full of acid until he figures it out.

01:16:26.010 --> 01:16:27.590
We're going to give him more drugs. Give him

01:16:27.590 --> 01:16:30.090
more drugs. Give him more drugs. He said that

01:16:30.090 --> 01:16:31.130
we would be millionaires. We're going to figure

01:16:31.130 --> 01:16:34.050
it out. We're going to really, like, that is

01:16:34.050 --> 01:16:36.569
the science that is on display in Akira. It's

01:16:36.569 --> 01:16:38.130
like, let's get all the best scientists together

01:16:38.130 --> 01:16:41.380
and just, like, this kid. He was tripping pretty

01:16:41.380 --> 01:16:42.840
hard. Let's get him to trip a little harder because

01:16:42.840 --> 01:16:44.739
then maybe he'll be able to explain it. Yeah,

01:16:44.840 --> 01:16:47.340
like Akira is literally just the kid who tripped

01:16:47.340 --> 01:16:50.000
the hardest. Yeah, that's exactly it. He's the

01:16:50.000 --> 01:16:52.300
kid that tripped the hardest. And like faded

01:16:52.300 --> 01:16:57.340
into oblivion, you know? Yep, yep. I mean, so

01:16:57.340 --> 01:17:00.319
to speak, at least mentally. I guess they experimented

01:17:00.319 --> 01:17:02.800
him to death in the movie. Right, right. But

01:17:02.800 --> 01:17:06.859
it's like it's Mengele with acid. No, no, sure,

01:17:06.899 --> 01:17:10.439
sure. But that whole speech that Kay gives that's

01:17:10.439 --> 01:17:14.220
really stilted in the movie. In English, it is

01:17:14.220 --> 01:17:16.960
so bad. Which one? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where she

01:17:16.960 --> 01:17:19.159
says, people build things, like trains and bridges.

01:17:19.699 --> 01:17:24.439
And they walk on roads. But that's the other,

01:17:24.460 --> 01:17:27.100
like, central thing that I think that, like,

01:17:27.100 --> 01:17:30.500
the movie is about is, like, the military mindset

01:17:30.500 --> 01:17:33.239
toward building mixed with what is perceived

01:17:33.239 --> 01:17:35.859
to be, like, the scientific mindset toward, like,

01:17:35.880 --> 01:17:39.819
theoretical. uh advancements instead of like

01:17:39.819 --> 01:17:43.779
actual progress like stagnancy versus action

01:17:43.779 --> 01:17:48.380
you know military versus science like and k to

01:17:48.380 --> 01:17:52.119
a degree is like kind of a military person you

01:17:52.119 --> 01:17:54.359
know what i mean like it's i don't know i think

01:17:54.359 --> 01:17:57.239
that's like this the other central dichotomy

01:17:57.239 --> 01:17:59.479
in this okay it's totally about i mean k and

01:17:59.479 --> 01:18:04.569
ryu are are She's military -minded, but she's

01:18:04.569 --> 01:18:06.729
also not giving that speech. That's Kyoko giving

01:18:06.729 --> 01:18:08.810
that speech through her. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's

01:18:08.810 --> 01:18:12.390
true. But to go back to that, though, that speech

01:18:12.390 --> 01:18:15.329
that Kei gives is sort of like the movie's version

01:18:15.329 --> 01:18:19.470
of the speech that Kyoko and the kids give at

01:18:19.470 --> 01:18:24.489
the end of the manga when Kaneda is in the All

01:18:24.489 --> 01:18:27.050
One or whatever, when there is no time anymore

01:18:27.050 --> 01:18:30.069
and he's just going through all the memories.

01:18:30.970 --> 01:18:33.489
And you know what I mean? Which is done amazingly

01:18:33.489 --> 01:18:35.609
in the manga where like the panels just become

01:18:35.609 --> 01:18:38.109
completely like jumbled and like they're all

01:18:38.109 --> 01:18:39.649
on top of each other. I think it's kind of beautiful

01:18:39.649 --> 01:18:41.710
in the movie too. Like I think like, and I think

01:18:41.710 --> 01:18:43.970
like that right before the credits is so fucking

01:18:43.970 --> 01:18:46.649
great. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. The opening. That,

01:18:46.710 --> 01:18:48.750
that, that part's, that part's really great too.

01:18:48.829 --> 01:18:50.909
But what I mean is like the actual, the very

01:18:50.909 --> 01:18:53.489
direct explanation of what the power of Akira

01:18:53.489 --> 01:18:57.090
represents, which is the ancient memory of the

01:18:57.090 --> 01:19:00.859
universe. And the, the amoeba that, It's like

01:19:00.859 --> 01:19:03.340
how Tetsuo is an amoeba that gains the power

01:19:03.340 --> 01:19:06.180
of a sentient human being. And to me, this just

01:19:06.180 --> 01:19:08.180
sounds like something I would think of on acid.

01:19:08.359 --> 01:19:11.579
Yeah, and so when you open the doors and then

01:19:11.579 --> 01:19:15.220
time and ego dissolves, it's the idea of you

01:19:15.220 --> 01:19:20.140
gaining the power of some kind of future evolutionary

01:19:20.140 --> 01:19:23.619
development or dissolving back into the beginning

01:19:23.619 --> 01:19:28.029
of the universe or whatever. That like all universal

01:19:28.029 --> 01:19:31.550
memory is stored in ourselves and that every

01:19:31.550 --> 01:19:35.930
person can access this sort of like deconstruction

01:19:35.930 --> 01:19:39.470
or accelerationist kind of timeline within themselves.

01:19:39.729 --> 01:19:42.630
Yeah, it's like you have no power, but now you

01:19:42.630 --> 01:19:46.649
know and are everything. What year was Altered

01:19:46.649 --> 01:19:49.359
States? Altered States was 70? That was also

01:19:49.359 --> 01:19:53.340
the 80s. I thought it was later. It's later.

01:19:53.479 --> 01:19:56.939
It's not the 70s. I think it's the 80s. Maybe

01:19:56.939 --> 01:20:01.939
it's 80. Yeah, it's 80. It's 1980. So it's before

01:20:01.939 --> 01:20:06.659
Akira. And it's the same fucking story. You just

01:20:06.659 --> 01:20:10.550
described the ancient... Through a psychedelic

01:20:10.550 --> 01:20:12.649
experience, connecting to the ancient memory

01:20:12.649 --> 01:20:14.810
of the amoeba and going back to your roots or

01:20:14.810 --> 01:20:17.789
whatever, does it make you bigger? Does it make

01:20:17.789 --> 01:20:21.510
you evolve or devolve or whatever? That's the

01:20:21.510 --> 01:20:25.109
power in Akira. Yeah, yeah. Where did all this

01:20:25.109 --> 01:20:29.670
energy come from is what she says. It's all the

01:20:29.670 --> 01:20:32.989
same energy that was always there. It's just

01:20:32.989 --> 01:20:38.289
evolved and reconfigured into a more complex

01:20:38.289 --> 01:20:40.970
form. And I don't know, this gets into the ideas

01:20:40.970 --> 01:20:43.210
of entropy and stuff like that, too. Like, maybe

01:20:43.210 --> 01:20:47.109
it just, like, it expands and it contracts. Like,

01:20:47.189 --> 01:20:50.630
everything comes from this, you know, simple,

01:20:50.770 --> 01:20:53.170
low -entropy point and then becomes, like, this

01:20:53.170 --> 01:20:55.430
high -entropy point that also is basically just

01:20:55.430 --> 01:20:59.010
low -entropy, that everything evolves to a certain

01:20:59.010 --> 01:21:01.869
complexity and then breaks down again. But I

01:21:01.869 --> 01:21:05.470
think, like, that's what kind of Tetsuo is experiencing.

01:21:05.729 --> 01:21:09.439
He's experiencing ego death. He has a brief moment

01:21:09.439 --> 01:21:12.539
of having these immense powers over the physical

01:21:12.539 --> 01:21:16.119
world, but then just goes a little bit too far,

01:21:16.359 --> 01:21:21.479
and his body just completely morphs and falls

01:21:21.479 --> 01:21:25.220
apart, and there's no cellular structure anymore,

01:21:25.340 --> 01:21:29.600
and his mind just fades into oblivion. His life

01:21:29.600 --> 01:21:32.520
flashes before his eyes. We're talking about

01:21:32.520 --> 01:21:34.819
this as a psychedelic drug situation, but it's

01:21:34.819 --> 01:21:36.500
also, the way you're describing it, almost sounds

01:21:36.500 --> 01:21:38.430
like leaving Las Vegas. You know what I mean?

01:21:38.710 --> 01:21:40.850
Or it's just like this person. Yeah. Yeah. It's

01:21:40.850 --> 01:21:42.689
just this person deteriorating from this substance

01:21:42.689 --> 01:21:45.310
use where like, you know, their cells can no

01:21:45.310 --> 01:21:48.029
longer hold together a sentence. Yeah. I mean,

01:21:48.050 --> 01:21:51.069
it's a story about like a dude, like losing himself

01:21:51.069 --> 01:21:53.489
to opioids too. Yeah. It's about, I mean, it's

01:21:53.489 --> 01:21:55.630
about a guy who had a friend who lost himself

01:21:55.630 --> 01:21:58.409
to opioids. That is. Yes, it is. And, and when

01:21:58.409 --> 01:22:01.130
he's holding the thing in the end, it's Tetsuo

01:22:01.130 --> 01:22:02.989
or whatever. It's like. Man, I miss you, you

01:22:02.989 --> 01:22:05.569
know? You were a great guy, and then this thing

01:22:05.569 --> 01:22:07.210
happened, the fucking government put out the

01:22:07.210 --> 01:22:09.310
fucking, like, why the fuck are they making this

01:22:09.310 --> 01:22:11.640
shit? It's coming out to you. And like, then

01:22:11.640 --> 01:22:13.439
he got this shit and he was good for a while.

01:22:13.539 --> 01:22:15.079
He was like, whatever. And then it just got worse

01:22:15.079 --> 01:22:17.159
and worse. And I tried it and he kept looking.

01:22:17.239 --> 01:22:19.520
He didn't want help, but then he did want help.

01:22:19.539 --> 01:22:21.180
He needed it. And somebody needed it. Like it's,

01:22:21.199 --> 01:22:24.520
it's, it's really sad. Really, really sad story.

01:22:24.920 --> 01:22:26.920
Yeah. Canada is just like a good friend. He's

01:22:26.920 --> 01:22:28.779
trying to get his friend off the opioids and

01:22:28.779 --> 01:22:30.699
he just won't listen. He's like, fuck you. Leave

01:22:30.699 --> 01:22:33.159
me alone. I can do drugs if I want to. They make

01:22:33.159 --> 01:22:35.119
me feel great. Yes. They make me feel like I

01:22:35.119 --> 01:22:37.170
could be a millionaire in seconds. They're just

01:22:37.170 --> 01:22:39.069
like, nah, dude, you're just like dying. You're

01:22:39.069 --> 01:22:41.409
just dissolving until you're a monster. You're

01:22:41.409 --> 01:22:43.289
not even yourself anymore. And eventually, I

01:22:43.289 --> 01:22:45.090
think what's interesting is eventually the drugs

01:22:45.090 --> 01:22:46.989
are helping him. You know what I mean? They're

01:22:46.989 --> 01:22:49.329
not making him more powerful. They're making

01:22:49.329 --> 01:22:51.750
him less powerful. Like in the manga, you know

01:22:51.750 --> 01:22:54.029
what I mean? At the end, it's like, I need these

01:22:54.029 --> 01:22:55.989
pills because otherwise I get the headache and

01:22:55.989 --> 01:22:57.789
then I start to expand and whatever. It's like,

01:22:57.810 --> 01:22:59.689
no, I need the pills. Okay, now I'm normal again.

01:23:00.010 --> 01:23:02.210
Now I can be a person. It's a drug dependency

01:23:02.210 --> 01:23:04.409
that is turning him into a monster in between

01:23:04.409 --> 01:23:08.020
the drugs. it's it's definitely yeah yeah like

01:23:08.020 --> 01:23:11.119
i think about his scenes with kaori where he's

01:23:11.119 --> 01:23:14.159
like coming like before he turns into like cyborg

01:23:14.159 --> 01:23:16.600
tetsuo and he's like incredibly tender with her

01:23:16.600 --> 01:23:18.779
trying to get her to go to sleep and it's like

01:23:18.779 --> 01:23:23.180
that yeah like that's the dude who's like i take

01:23:23.180 --> 01:23:25.779
the drugs just to live and be a normal person

01:23:25.779 --> 01:23:29.659
now yeah yeah yeah exactly it's really it's it's

01:23:29.659 --> 01:23:33.250
like definitely But then eventually they can't

01:23:33.250 --> 01:23:36.050
even help him do that anymore. Right. Like he's

01:23:36.050 --> 01:23:38.289
just way too far gone and no one can help him.

01:23:38.329 --> 01:23:40.609
And it's, it's over. He's gonna, he's gonna die.

01:23:40.770 --> 01:23:42.750
He's gonna have an overdose or whatever. Yeah.

01:23:42.810 --> 01:23:46.909
Yeah. Yeah. Um, enter another universe, you know?

01:23:47.550 --> 01:23:50.210
Yeah. It's like, yeah. As much as I love the

01:23:50.210 --> 01:23:52.550
ending of, of the movie, it does make me kind

01:23:52.550 --> 01:23:55.010
of wish like, because it is like, that's, I feel

01:23:55.010 --> 01:23:57.750
like, especially in like Western opioid society,

01:23:57.829 --> 01:23:59.750
like I have fucking two brothers who died from

01:23:59.750 --> 01:24:01.909
drug overdoses and it's like, it's one of those

01:24:01.909 --> 01:24:04.449
situations where it's like our, you know, the

01:24:04.449 --> 01:24:06.810
hillbilly elegy crowd in this country would love

01:24:06.810 --> 01:24:09.470
to see a movie that ends with like a guy riding

01:24:09.470 --> 01:24:11.649
a motorcycle with his ghost motorcycle buddy

01:24:11.649 --> 01:24:13.670
who died of an overdose. Like that's the most

01:24:13.670 --> 01:24:16.949
American thing I can think of. Like we need that.

01:24:17.289 --> 01:24:20.210
No, totally. Totally. No, that is, that is really

01:24:20.210 --> 01:24:22.949
true. I, I do love that about the ending of the

01:24:22.949 --> 01:24:25.930
manga where the ghosts, uh, Tetsuo, right. And

01:24:25.930 --> 01:24:29.409
the ghost, um, Yamagata are riding alongside.

01:24:29.930 --> 01:24:33.449
They're still here. They're not actually gone

01:24:33.449 --> 01:24:36.369
and all this kind of stuff. That is also very

01:24:36.369 --> 01:24:40.649
psychedelic. And also could be overly sentimental

01:24:40.649 --> 01:24:43.789
in any other context. It is overly sentimental.

01:24:43.850 --> 01:24:47.109
It's insanely sentimental. When you get 2 ,000

01:24:47.109 --> 01:24:49.449
pages into something, you want that. You want

01:24:49.449 --> 01:24:52.989
a very epic... sign off you want you want a little

01:24:52.989 --> 01:24:55.569
majesty i think i mean because like because like

01:24:55.569 --> 01:24:58.310
you said about you know the connor's journey

01:24:58.310 --> 01:25:03.029
of becoming more of just like I don't know, a

01:25:03.029 --> 01:25:05.270
man. Like you say, he loses all of his friends,

01:25:05.289 --> 01:25:06.810
and then he's with this woman. He becomes in

01:25:06.810 --> 01:25:09.270
this sort of domestic unit where they start their

01:25:09.270 --> 01:25:11.569
new empire together. But in the end of the manga,

01:25:11.649 --> 01:25:13.430
he still has his friends there, like in ghost

01:25:13.430 --> 01:25:16.649
form at least. Oh, in ghost world only. We always

01:25:16.649 --> 01:25:18.550
take our homies with us, you know what I mean?

01:25:18.670 --> 01:25:21.329
Yeah, exactly, exactly. In the movie, it feels

01:25:21.329 --> 01:25:23.770
a little bit more like he really lost everybody.

01:25:24.069 --> 01:25:26.189
And, like, there is the final moment where you

01:25:26.189 --> 01:25:28.649
see the sort of, like, galaxy eyeball thing,

01:25:28.710 --> 01:25:31.600
and you just hear, I am Tetsuo. And that's how

01:25:31.600 --> 01:25:37.439
the movie ends. But that's such a surreal, almost

01:25:37.439 --> 01:25:40.500
abstract expression right there that I don't

01:25:40.500 --> 01:25:41.800
really know. I don't know that that's supposed

01:25:41.800 --> 01:25:44.319
to represent the ghost bikers or what. Right.

01:25:44.319 --> 01:25:47.020
It's not like I am Tetsuo watching Canada right

01:25:47.020 --> 01:25:51.460
now. It's just like the universe is Tetsuo. Tetsuo

01:25:51.460 --> 01:25:55.239
is everything. Tetsuo is like the all -seeing.

01:25:56.240 --> 01:25:59.619
I, like, or whatever. I don't know. Can we talk

01:25:59.619 --> 01:26:01.079
real quick since we're on the ending, though,

01:26:01.140 --> 01:26:03.760
about the final, in English, the final voiceover?

01:26:04.720 --> 01:26:08.260
But someday we might be able to because it has

01:26:08.260 --> 01:26:10.960
only just begun. It has already begun. Yeah.

01:26:11.800 --> 01:26:15.699
It's like, but it's so bad because it should

01:26:15.699 --> 01:26:18.069
just be, but someday we may be able to. because

01:26:18.069 --> 01:26:19.409
it's already begun. Like, you know what I mean?

01:26:19.430 --> 01:26:21.930
It's like, it makes sense. It actually, like,

01:26:21.949 --> 01:26:23.409
on paper, totally makes sense. They're talking

01:26:23.409 --> 01:26:24.810
about whether they'll be able to get out of the

01:26:24.810 --> 01:26:26.210
realm or whatever. And she's like, well, someday

01:26:26.210 --> 01:26:27.390
we may be able to, because it's already begun.

01:26:27.890 --> 01:26:30.590
But in the movie, it's just like, just abstract,

01:26:30.689 --> 01:26:33.050
totally disconnected words, where they just like,

01:26:33.109 --> 01:26:34.449
somebody's reading something, they don't know

01:26:34.449 --> 01:26:36.970
what it means. Syntax salad. Somehow, we might

01:26:36.970 --> 01:26:40.710
be able to, because it has already begun. It's

01:26:40.710 --> 01:26:42.569
like, what do you think? It literally means nothing.

01:26:43.279 --> 01:26:45.000
But if you read it, it makes perfect sense. It

01:26:45.000 --> 01:26:46.979
sounds like she was cut off mid -sentence, like

01:26:46.979 --> 01:26:48.960
she was supposed to finish a sentence, but then,

01:26:49.000 --> 01:26:50.859
yeah, like it's interrupted. And then it pauses

01:26:50.859 --> 01:26:53.960
for too long before he says it. It's so awkward.

01:26:54.180 --> 01:26:57.439
But it also, like, I watched it recently in English,

01:26:57.520 --> 01:26:59.579
and then I watched it in Japanese. And there

01:26:59.579 --> 01:27:01.659
was... First of all, there's a huge difference

01:27:01.659 --> 01:27:04.100
as far as the soundtrack. Just like the levels

01:27:04.100 --> 01:27:07.039
of the soundtrack is completely different. There's

01:27:07.039 --> 01:27:10.479
way higher music in the Japanese score. In the

01:27:10.479 --> 01:27:12.779
American score, everything is much lower and

01:27:12.779 --> 01:27:15.439
the voices are much higher. So when I first was

01:27:15.439 --> 01:27:16.680
watching the Japanese one, I was like, dude,

01:27:16.779 --> 01:27:19.420
is there something wrong with this? It sounds

01:27:19.420 --> 01:27:22.479
like really, like, it's too loud. I can barely

01:27:22.479 --> 01:27:23.920
hear the dialogue. It's like, no, this is how

01:27:23.920 --> 01:27:26.460
it was. And I think that also the dialogue sounds

01:27:26.460 --> 01:27:29.260
kind of muddy because it's old 80s recording

01:27:29.260 --> 01:27:31.060
technology that probably hasn't been like, who

01:27:31.060 --> 01:27:33.380
knows? But it doesn't sound as good and clear

01:27:33.380 --> 01:27:35.579
as the American one, but it sounds way better.

01:27:35.720 --> 01:27:37.760
The dub that we're familiar with is from 2001.

01:27:38.100 --> 01:27:41.399
And there was an original dub from 88 that's

01:27:41.399 --> 01:27:44.140
like a lot more haggard and weird and like is

01:27:44.140 --> 01:27:46.140
not as accurate to the script or whatever. Right,

01:27:46.140 --> 01:27:49.619
right. Different voiceover cast as well. But

01:27:49.619 --> 01:27:53.590
then. But, dude, the Japanese version, I remember,

01:27:53.689 --> 01:27:57.130
Mike, you and I went to see the 4K re -release

01:27:57.130 --> 01:28:00.170
of Akira in theaters in, like, what was that,

01:28:00.210 --> 01:28:02.970
2020? Yeah, somewhat recently. It was during

01:28:02.970 --> 01:28:06.609
COVID. Yeah, it was 2020. And there was, like,

01:28:06.649 --> 01:28:08.109
no one in the theater. It was, like, just you

01:28:08.109 --> 01:28:10.750
and me and, like, three other people. It was

01:28:10.750 --> 01:28:13.329
amazing, though. And, like, we both said, like,

01:28:13.350 --> 01:28:14.930
dude, that was the first time we ever watched

01:28:14.930 --> 01:28:19.500
Akira with subs. And, like, yeah, dude, the mix

01:28:19.500 --> 01:28:22.319
is so much better. It's just, like, the whole

01:28:22.319 --> 01:28:24.840
experience is way better. And then noticing that,

01:28:24.880 --> 01:28:27.720
like, that they actually did pre -scoring, that

01:28:27.720 --> 01:28:30.039
all the mouth movements actually match up with

01:28:30.039 --> 01:28:32.600
the Japanese dialogue. Yeah, completely. It's,

01:28:32.600 --> 01:28:34.979
like, really cool. Yeah, yeah, which is very

01:28:34.979 --> 01:28:37.119
rare for anime to do pre -scoring like that,

01:28:37.140 --> 01:28:38.399
to record the audio first. I think it's rare

01:28:38.399 --> 01:28:41.939
for any animation to do because it's so, I don't

01:28:41.939 --> 01:28:43.819
know, like, you're working with, like, a very

01:28:43.819 --> 01:28:45.920
difficult template. You're working to get, like...

01:28:46.189 --> 01:28:48.210
you know, perfect audio fidelity. Whereas like

01:28:48.210 --> 01:28:51.250
many, many cartoons don't give a fuck about that.

01:28:51.310 --> 01:28:53.029
It's just like, we'll give it like the vague

01:28:53.029 --> 01:28:54.569
motions of what this would look like. I think,

01:28:54.569 --> 01:28:57.029
I think pre -scoring is a lot more common in

01:28:57.029 --> 01:29:00.189
American animation because they do just want

01:29:00.189 --> 01:29:03.189
to get voice actor performances right first before

01:29:03.189 --> 01:29:05.329
doing the animation. Like all Disney does pre

01:29:05.329 --> 01:29:09.010
-scoring and, you know, most like, like popular

01:29:09.010 --> 01:29:11.390
animated TV shows will do pre -scoring and stuff.

01:29:11.949 --> 01:29:16.600
But yeah, anime. does not do that quite frequently

01:29:16.600 --> 01:29:21.699
yeah it's crazy to think i don't know to try

01:29:21.699 --> 01:29:24.159
and listen to the thing time out the like where

01:29:24.159 --> 01:29:27.380
the lips smack and stuff okay yeah it's well

01:29:27.380 --> 01:29:30.420
because yeah if you if you do the animation first

01:29:30.420 --> 01:29:33.100
then when the voice actor comes in they're going

01:29:33.100 --> 01:29:35.560
to give a really really that's part of why the

01:29:35.560 --> 01:29:38.279
2001 dub is stilted because they actually are

01:29:38.279 --> 01:29:41.270
this is what i'm trying to match Yeah, they're

01:29:41.270 --> 01:29:43.409
trying to - the American voice actors are trying

01:29:43.409 --> 01:29:45.750
to match with the mouth movements as best as

01:29:45.750 --> 01:29:48.010
they can. And it's not just the mouth movements

01:29:48.010 --> 01:29:50.430
too, it's also just like how long a statement

01:29:50.430 --> 01:29:53.930
takes. Often they'll say something and then say

01:29:53.930 --> 01:29:56.489
another little thing on the end to make it a

01:29:56.489 --> 01:29:59.289
little bit longer so that it matches how long

01:29:59.289 --> 01:30:01.670
the Japanese one says. It's not that they're

01:30:01.670 --> 01:30:04.710
doing a bad job. I think they do a really good

01:30:04.710 --> 01:30:07.529
job of all the voices and stuff. It's actually

01:30:07.529 --> 01:30:10.390
very well recorded and whatever. Their performances

01:30:10.390 --> 01:30:14.569
are good. It's just the process of trying to

01:30:14.569 --> 01:30:19.569
fit dialogue to the pre -existing lengths and

01:30:19.569 --> 01:30:22.069
times and whatever makes it awkward yeah and

01:30:22.069 --> 01:30:24.109
then there's also just like the weird stuff of

01:30:24.109 --> 01:30:25.789
like yeah there are performance problems where

01:30:25.789 --> 01:30:27.390
somebody doesn't know what they're reading and

01:30:27.390 --> 01:30:29.970
they're saying somehow we may be able to because

01:30:29.970 --> 01:30:32.550
it is just doubling and tripling of voice actors

01:30:32.550 --> 01:30:34.390
too which happens in the american version yeah

01:30:34.390 --> 01:30:36.550
yeah yeah that's that's definitely a problem

01:30:36.550 --> 01:30:38.970
especially for like the extra people on the back

01:30:38.970 --> 01:30:41.289
end where everyone ends up sounding exactly the

01:30:41.289 --> 01:30:43.890
same yeah yeah well that that one that one specific

01:30:43.890 --> 01:30:46.109
like the the one in the ending is like that's

01:30:46.109 --> 01:30:48.949
a voiceover so like They don't actually need

01:30:48.949 --> 01:30:51.029
to be matching it to vocals, but the reason why

01:30:51.029 --> 01:30:54.069
it's stilted is because it's a single line of

01:30:54.069 --> 01:30:56.369
dialogue that, like, one character begins and

01:30:56.369 --> 01:30:58.229
then another character finishes. And they didn't

01:30:58.229 --> 01:31:00.189
have two people in the same room doing it. And

01:31:00.189 --> 01:31:01.409
they didn't have two people in the same room

01:31:01.409 --> 01:31:02.810
at the same time or something. You know what

01:31:02.810 --> 01:31:05.210
I mean? Yeah. And they're just, like, not coordinated

01:31:05.210 --> 01:31:08.170
or whatever. They're also the most cartoony -sounding

01:31:08.170 --> 01:31:11.250
characters. Like, the Espers sound like, I don't

01:31:11.250 --> 01:31:13.409
know, like Rugrats characters. You know what

01:31:13.409 --> 01:31:16.989
I mean? Like, it's pitched so high that, like...

01:31:17.279 --> 01:31:19.960
A line like that can't help but kind of sound

01:31:19.960 --> 01:31:23.579
clunky. Pitched so high. Yeah, I think that's

01:31:23.579 --> 01:31:25.939
true. It's just goofy. Yeah, she just didn't

01:31:25.939 --> 01:31:28.180
get the right note. Whoever was doing the ADR

01:31:28.180 --> 01:31:30.460
coaching just, like, you know, fucked up. And

01:31:30.460 --> 01:31:33.100
she's like, no, you have to deliver it like this,

01:31:33.159 --> 01:31:36.399
you know. I feel like maybe they were just like,

01:31:36.560 --> 01:31:38.779
no, it's fine. It's good enough. Yeah, exactly.

01:31:38.960 --> 01:31:41.300
I think it's a lot of good enough is the problem.

01:31:41.680 --> 01:31:43.760
It's like, yeah, we have a deadline. We have

01:31:43.760 --> 01:31:46.159
to get this out. I'm just recording this somehow.

01:31:46.260 --> 01:31:48.100
We may be able to. It's not that important. It's

01:31:48.100 --> 01:31:51.279
just the last fucking line in the movie. It's

01:31:51.279 --> 01:31:55.039
fine. We don't need to do another take of somehow

01:31:55.039 --> 01:31:58.039
we may be able to. It does. Evan, you brought

01:31:58.039 --> 01:32:03.579
up the score first to say how on the Japanese

01:32:03.579 --> 01:32:07.439
dub the score is so much more foregrounded. It's

01:32:07.439 --> 01:32:10.119
not the best part of the movie. I don't know.

01:32:10.180 --> 01:32:11.380
I think it might be the best part of the movie.

01:32:11.460 --> 01:32:14.140
I think it's fucking unreal. Tetsuo's theme is

01:32:14.140 --> 01:32:17.449
like, One of the best pieces of scoring I've

01:32:17.449 --> 01:32:19.430
ever heard. This is the other thing about the

01:32:19.430 --> 01:32:22.569
movie. It is such a rich, beautiful, aesthetic

01:32:22.569 --> 01:32:26.949
experience. When I read the manga, I don't know.

01:32:27.090 --> 01:32:30.189
I feel like sometimes you could take a manga

01:32:30.189 --> 01:32:32.470
and turn it into an anime. You could take a book

01:32:32.470 --> 01:32:36.229
and turn it into a movie or whatever. I don't

01:32:36.229 --> 01:32:37.590
know, like Jurassic Park, for instance, it's

01:32:37.590 --> 01:32:40.609
something where so much about the aesthetic experience

01:32:40.609 --> 01:32:43.289
of Jurassic Park is not in the book, like John

01:32:43.289 --> 01:32:46.090
Williams' score and the way the dinosaurs look

01:32:46.090 --> 01:32:50.789
and just so much about the atmosphere. I just

01:32:50.789 --> 01:32:55.289
think the atmosphere of Akira, the movie is so

01:32:55.289 --> 01:32:58.550
incredible and the music is so iconic and the

01:32:58.550 --> 01:33:02.600
colors of the movie. just i don't know the sound

01:33:02.600 --> 01:33:04.460
effects and stuff like they use the sync clavier

01:33:04.460 --> 01:33:07.380
to like program all the sound effects and stuff

01:33:07.380 --> 01:33:10.199
i don't know it's just it's super super cool

01:33:10.199 --> 01:33:13.000
and all that like that is stuff that i just like

01:33:13.000 --> 01:33:15.739
you don't necessarily like miss it when you're

01:33:15.739 --> 01:33:18.119
reading the manga but it's such a like an important

01:33:18.119 --> 01:33:20.640
part of the experience of the movie yeah the

01:33:20.640 --> 01:33:24.000
movie it's they took every opportunity Every

01:33:24.000 --> 01:33:26.500
opportunity to show off in that movie, basically.

01:33:26.659 --> 01:33:28.659
And not just to show off to American Western

01:33:28.659 --> 01:33:30.920
audiences or whatever, but to show off to the

01:33:30.920 --> 01:33:34.159
anime people who know how hard it is to animate.

01:33:34.420 --> 01:33:36.180
You know what I mean? He's showing off to his

01:33:36.180 --> 01:33:40.159
cohort of other animators and whatnot. A lot

01:33:40.159 --> 01:33:44.180
of what's done for Akira is creating new colors

01:33:44.180 --> 01:33:47.979
that have never been pigmented before. It's kind

01:33:47.979 --> 01:33:51.560
of one of the cruel reasons to start here because

01:33:51.560 --> 01:33:54.520
it's like... No one else has this budget. What

01:33:54.520 --> 01:33:57.659
did they use? Five different actual studios.

01:33:57.800 --> 01:34:00.760
Toho ended up distributing and releasing it,

01:34:00.779 --> 01:34:02.880
but they used five different studios to finance.

01:34:03.079 --> 01:34:04.979
And if you look in the credits, there are something

01:34:04.979 --> 01:34:08.159
like 30 different animation studios that worked

01:34:08.159 --> 01:34:10.920
as like different satellite studios for it. And

01:34:10.920 --> 01:34:14.819
it's just like the, you know, to the entire infrastructure,

01:34:14.880 --> 01:34:16.699
to put it in the words of the Colonel, like.

01:34:16.960 --> 01:34:18.819
We're not interested in building things like

01:34:18.819 --> 01:34:21.739
that anymore. Like the culture at large is not

01:34:21.739 --> 01:34:24.619
interested in sinking that kind of money in something

01:34:24.619 --> 01:34:28.739
that kind of hand drawn. And like if there is

01:34:28.739 --> 01:34:32.140
an Akira that becomes, I don't know, another

01:34:32.140 --> 01:34:36.680
version of a film or a series, you better believe

01:34:36.680 --> 01:34:38.539
there's going to be a ridiculous amount of like.

01:34:39.020 --> 01:34:41.539
ai art in it right like that's going to happen

01:34:41.539 --> 01:34:44.180
yeah yeah exactly yeah i mean everything has

01:34:44.180 --> 01:34:46.039
to be efficient now everything has to be efficient

01:34:46.039 --> 01:34:48.159
and cheap i mean they're they're the thing is

01:34:48.159 --> 01:34:51.460
like there are anime directors currently that

01:34:51.460 --> 01:34:54.279
are still doing like incredibly impressive hand

01:34:54.279 --> 01:34:59.380
-drawn stuff like uh like uh the guy did um um

01:34:59.380 --> 01:35:03.140
your name what's his name Yeah, yeah, his movies

01:35:03.140 --> 01:35:06.479
are beautiful. I mean, there are a bunch of these

01:35:06.479 --> 01:35:09.479
guys right now. They really, really do incredibly

01:35:09.479 --> 01:35:09.920
visually impressive stuff. But you're talking

01:35:09.920 --> 01:35:11.800
about cinema, though. You know what I mean? And

01:35:11.800 --> 01:35:16.220
cinematic stuff. There are great anime things

01:35:16.220 --> 01:35:20.619
coming out still here and there. And the thing

01:35:20.619 --> 01:35:22.619
is, there is like an infrastructure where they

01:35:22.619 --> 01:35:25.920
can do some like very, very impressive, like

01:35:25.920 --> 01:35:29.260
24 frames per second hand drawn, like delicate,

01:35:29.319 --> 01:35:32.880
like rain hitting, you know, like it's just they

01:35:32.880 --> 01:35:35.319
do do that to show off. But that's like those

01:35:35.319 --> 01:35:38.680
are that is like the spectacle of that movie.

01:35:38.779 --> 01:35:40.859
And that's like the guy that guy's thing. And

01:35:40.859 --> 01:35:42.420
people who are into that are into that. But this

01:35:42.420 --> 01:35:45.220
is not the movie that I mean, I guess your name

01:35:45.220 --> 01:35:47.619
was like one of the most successful enemies in

01:35:47.619 --> 01:35:50.800
like many, many years and whatnot. But it's not

01:35:50.800 --> 01:35:52.460
it's not the same of like we're getting the entire

01:35:52.460 --> 01:35:55.140
country behind this thing and putting all of

01:35:55.140 --> 01:35:56.739
our resources into this. It's just kind of like,

01:35:56.739 --> 01:35:58.359
well, they're now very good at this. And there

01:35:58.359 --> 01:36:00.279
is an infrastructure that they still can use.

01:36:00.399 --> 01:36:02.640
And, you know, five guys who still care about

01:36:02.640 --> 01:36:05.659
it. It's like how there's no great infrastructure

01:36:05.659 --> 01:36:07.859
for filmmaking anymore. But you get like on a

01:36:07.859 --> 01:36:09.680
Paul Thomas Anderson set and you can do a thing.

01:36:09.779 --> 01:36:11.880
I'm just saying, like, if you make a if you make

01:36:11.880 --> 01:36:14.300
fifteen hundred episodes of one piece, the quality

01:36:14.300 --> 01:36:16.460
just can't be there. No, you literally can't.

01:36:17.020 --> 01:36:19.039
Time dictates that it cannot. Yeah. There, there

01:36:19.039 --> 01:36:22.760
are, there are like theatrical animes that like,

01:36:22.800 --> 01:36:26.840
sure. Oh, I'm sure. But like the, when it comes

01:36:26.840 --> 01:36:29.000
to the series, absolutely. I guess like, like

01:36:29.000 --> 01:36:31.399
my thing, it's like, I, as splendid as it is

01:36:31.399 --> 01:36:34.939
to like, look at, like, I don't, there is, there

01:36:34.939 --> 01:36:36.939
is a part of me that goes like, I don't, the

01:36:36.939 --> 01:36:39.659
things that make it anime, the things that make

01:36:39.659 --> 01:36:42.939
it only achievable in this format are not things

01:36:42.939 --> 01:36:46.720
that I like find. I don't know. particularly

01:36:46.720 --> 01:36:48.800
interesting i guess you know what i mean like

01:36:48.800 --> 01:36:50.819
i mean i don't know like i think i think that

01:36:50.819 --> 01:36:52.779
the things the things that i like i don't know

01:36:52.779 --> 01:36:55.199
there there are a lot of things that only akira

01:36:55.199 --> 01:36:58.100
could like that you could never film akira like

01:36:58.100 --> 01:37:01.140
as a live action no i know but the ability of

01:37:01.140 --> 01:37:03.239
like can you even really film it as an animated

01:37:03.239 --> 01:37:05.420
picture though i guess is the question i mean

01:37:05.420 --> 01:37:09.250
i think i think akira did but is it like It's

01:37:09.250 --> 01:37:11.649
an adaptation. It's a different thing. Yeah,

01:37:11.729 --> 01:37:13.989
it's a different thing. The manga itself, you're

01:37:13.989 --> 01:37:16.149
talking about, like, adapting the manga as, like,

01:37:16.170 --> 01:37:18.710
a full, like, what, series or something? Well,

01:37:18.710 --> 01:37:20.550
I mean, I guess I mean to say that, like, anime

01:37:20.550 --> 01:37:24.170
in the broader culture is not thought of as,

01:37:24.189 --> 01:37:27.250
like, Akira or thought of as, like, you know,

01:37:27.250 --> 01:37:30.550
the Demon Hunter X movie. It's thought of as,

01:37:30.649 --> 01:37:33.789
like, 5 ,000 episodes of a series, you know what

01:37:33.789 --> 01:37:36.829
I mean? Or, like, a super, super long serialized

01:37:36.829 --> 01:37:39.489
thing that, like, people... fucking watch every

01:37:39.489 --> 01:37:43.449
single solitary day and it's like to me that

01:37:43.449 --> 01:37:46.550
that disposable thing like the disposable heart

01:37:46.550 --> 01:37:50.250
at the very middle of like like manga culture

01:37:50.250 --> 01:37:52.810
and anime culture is like the thing that i'm

01:37:52.810 --> 01:37:56.149
just like oh we we have moved towards that as

01:37:56.149 --> 01:37:58.390
a society like that's what we embrace that's

01:37:58.390 --> 01:38:01.369
what we want this other thing will like i don't

01:38:01.369 --> 01:38:03.550
know always be a boutique thing and like i don't

01:38:03.550 --> 01:38:06.810
need to go see like i mean like i'll see the

01:38:06.810 --> 01:38:09.590
masters make their movies but like there's not

01:38:09.590 --> 01:38:11.189
going to be like some guy who gets to shoot a

01:38:11.189 --> 01:38:12.829
shot doing this shit you know what i mean yeah

01:38:12.829 --> 01:38:16.869
yeah i think that's very very rarely and i don't

01:38:16.869 --> 01:38:18.649
know man the thing i think a lot of his context

01:38:18.649 --> 01:38:23.810
too um like akira was made in 1988 like disney

01:38:23.810 --> 01:38:26.869
was only just about to have the renaissance you

01:38:26.869 --> 01:38:29.550
know they were only just about to release um

01:38:29.550 --> 01:38:31.869
the little mermaid and in a lot of ways like

01:38:31.869 --> 01:38:33.789
the little mermaid's beautiful it's cinematic

01:38:34.670 --> 01:38:37.470
But even that movie, when you compare the way

01:38:37.470 --> 01:38:41.229
that movie looks to Akira, it's so much more

01:38:41.229 --> 01:38:44.649
simplistic in its art style. It's so much more

01:38:44.649 --> 01:38:48.810
basic. I mean, Disney has actually... There's

01:38:48.810 --> 01:38:50.630
only a few Disney movies that you can actually

01:38:50.630 --> 01:38:55.890
compare to Akira at the level of quality and

01:38:55.890 --> 01:38:58.829
how many in -betweener frames there are in the

01:38:58.829 --> 01:39:02.229
animation and stuff like that. Akira... like

01:39:02.229 --> 01:39:05.510
a part of anime that like if you like anime a

01:39:05.510 --> 01:39:08.130
big part of accepting it is accepting that most

01:39:08.130 --> 01:39:11.149
of it looks like garbage most of it is not very

01:39:11.149 --> 01:39:13.869
well animated you have a few key frames maybe

01:39:13.869 --> 01:39:16.850
a couple in betweeners you have sometimes the

01:39:16.850 --> 01:39:20.029
backgrounds are painted relatively well but the

01:39:20.029 --> 01:39:23.310
art style has to be so simple and a lot of like

01:39:23.310 --> 01:39:26.430
cell drawn animation is kind of has that quality

01:39:26.430 --> 01:39:29.390
to it And, yeah, like you said, so much of it

01:39:29.390 --> 01:39:31.789
is serialized television, and you really just

01:39:31.789 --> 01:39:33.470
do not have the budget. I mean, Evangelion is

01:39:33.470 --> 01:39:35.810
not a really beautiful -looking show, you know?

01:39:36.130 --> 01:39:38.449
And it gets worse as it goes on. Like, the animation

01:39:38.449 --> 01:39:41.470
quality just, like, degrades as it goes on. Mike's

01:39:41.470 --> 01:39:44.189
getting so upset. I mean, like, it's beautiful

01:39:44.189 --> 01:39:46.689
in a different way, man, okay? No, it is. It's

01:39:46.689 --> 01:39:48.710
beautiful. It's a low -budget beautiful. It's

01:39:48.710 --> 01:39:50.789
a beautiful of, like, we're going to watch somebody

01:39:50.789 --> 01:39:53.329
sit in a still frame for 30 seconds. Well, I

01:39:53.329 --> 01:39:55.909
think that's the issue to me as, like... Sorry,

01:39:56.029 --> 01:39:58.399
go. No, but I think part of the reason why, like,

01:39:58.399 --> 01:40:01.180
anime took a long time to be accepted by Western

01:40:01.180 --> 01:40:04.079
audiences is because, like, they saw Snow White

01:40:04.079 --> 01:40:07.260
in the 30s. Right. And that was so beautifully

01:40:07.260 --> 01:40:09.380
animated. They saw Pinocchio in the 40s. That's

01:40:09.380 --> 01:40:11.239
one of the most beautifully animated films, like,

01:40:11.239 --> 01:40:13.100
of all time. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?

01:40:13.220 --> 01:40:15.880
Like, they saw Sleeping Beauty in the 70s. That's

01:40:15.880 --> 01:40:18.539
also just, like, go back and watch Sleeping Beauty,

01:40:18.680 --> 01:40:21.979
man. It's, like, the most ridiculous fucking

01:40:21.979 --> 01:40:25.260
thing. I've never seen Sleeping Beauty at all.

01:40:26.180 --> 01:40:28.840
Wow. No, I mean, it's, it's, it, I mean, at least

01:40:28.840 --> 01:40:30.619
something to be desired story -wise and whatever,

01:40:30.699 --> 01:40:32.859
but just from a technical perspective, the animation

01:40:32.859 --> 01:40:35.840
is there's, there's few animated movies that

01:40:35.840 --> 01:40:39.140
look as beautiful as that. Um, but I just, I

01:40:39.140 --> 01:40:41.819
just think Akira man is like on that level. Like

01:40:41.819 --> 01:40:45.500
it's one of the most beautifully animated. Yeah.

01:40:45.600 --> 01:40:47.800
I don't know. The level of technical proficiency

01:40:47.800 --> 01:40:50.640
of it is like blows my mind. Like as a person

01:40:50.640 --> 01:40:53.119
who used to animate too, like I used to do hand

01:40:53.119 --> 01:40:55.550
-drawn animation when I was younger and, really

01:40:55.550 --> 01:40:58.770
got into it for a long period of time. And just

01:40:58.770 --> 01:41:01.430
like sometimes watching Akira gives me anxiety,

01:41:01.729 --> 01:41:06.529
like thinking about just how much work is required

01:41:06.529 --> 01:41:09.829
to like put those images on the screen. And yeah,

01:41:09.930 --> 01:41:14.529
I think that's why something like Akira and Miyazaki

01:41:14.529 --> 01:41:19.890
and like Satoshi Kan kind of like are the things

01:41:19.890 --> 01:41:21.970
that needed to break through for Western audiences

01:41:21.970 --> 01:41:25.390
because like... they had to look that good to

01:41:25.390 --> 01:41:29.609
really make an impact to get Western audiences

01:41:29.609 --> 01:41:31.750
who were used to these beautifully animated Disney

01:41:31.750 --> 01:41:35.689
movies behind the whole thing. Even when I was

01:41:35.689 --> 01:41:40.750
a kid, they had Toonami on Cartoon Network. They

01:41:40.750 --> 01:41:42.789
would play all the Shonen Jump stuff. You would

01:41:42.789 --> 01:41:47.569
have Dragon Ball Z and Gundam Wing and stuff

01:41:47.569 --> 01:41:50.100
like that. Those shows never looked like... They're

01:41:50.100 --> 01:41:52.159
always drawn beautifully. You know, the character

01:41:52.159 --> 01:41:54.039
design's great. Like, background paintings look

01:41:54.039 --> 01:41:56.539
good. But when it comes to the actual frame -by

01:41:56.539 --> 01:41:59.840
-frame animation, they're, like, they're really

01:41:59.840 --> 01:42:03.000
inferior to even shows like CatDog and, like,

01:42:03.180 --> 01:42:05.079
Raka's Modern Life and whatever, you know? Yeah,

01:42:05.079 --> 01:42:07.619
yeah, yeah. They don't look as beautifully animated.

01:42:08.140 --> 01:42:10.239
Well, again, I would say if you're comparing

01:42:10.239 --> 01:42:13.760
CatDog, like, I would say that Evangelion's more

01:42:13.760 --> 01:42:19.220
beautiful. But I think what Evan's kind of saying

01:42:19.220 --> 01:42:21.340
is like in terms of like, yeah, the fact that

01:42:21.340 --> 01:42:24.199
like there are, there is cleaner work here being

01:42:24.199 --> 01:42:26.460
done and there is like more technically. And

01:42:26.460 --> 01:42:29.340
disposably, like the disposable shit is more

01:42:29.340 --> 01:42:31.500
clearly done than the greatest shit that they're

01:42:31.500 --> 01:42:33.500
coming out with. Correct. And it creates, it

01:42:33.500 --> 01:42:36.359
creates a, it creates a truly cinematic vibe

01:42:36.359 --> 01:42:40.779
that is like actually intoxicating. To see that

01:42:40.779 --> 01:42:44.300
in Akira. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you watch Akira,

01:42:44.359 --> 01:42:46.600
you really just feel like you're watching a movie.

01:42:47.039 --> 01:42:50.899
It feels like the lighting and everything and

01:42:50.899 --> 01:42:54.500
the camera work and just every aspect about it

01:42:54.500 --> 01:42:59.659
is so cinematic. And it is competing with Western

01:42:59.659 --> 01:43:02.220
movies in the way they are shot and the way they

01:43:02.220 --> 01:43:05.380
are staged and stuff like that. I don't know.

01:43:05.399 --> 01:43:07.819
It just has a level of quality that is mind -blowing

01:43:07.819 --> 01:43:09.659
to me. And it came out in 1988. I think that's

01:43:09.659 --> 01:43:12.479
really the thing. that sets Akira apart from

01:43:12.479 --> 01:43:14.039
like the things that came before it and whatnot,

01:43:14.180 --> 01:43:18.680
like that specifically. Yeah. That really changes

01:43:18.680 --> 01:43:21.779
anime. And that's really what gets it to Western

01:43:21.779 --> 01:43:25.140
audiences, I think. But like that thing specifically.

01:43:26.439 --> 01:43:28.220
But then to talk about whether or not stuff like

01:43:28.220 --> 01:43:31.600
that is happening now, like I kind of think like,

01:43:31.659 --> 01:43:35.359
yeah, I know there are still very high, like

01:43:35.359 --> 01:43:37.539
there are still big budget animations being made.

01:43:37.960 --> 01:43:40.699
Most of them are made in computers. and have

01:43:40.699 --> 01:43:44.000
a lot of computer assistance. But, I mean, I

01:43:44.000 --> 01:43:46.899
saw the new Miyazaki, man. Like, I love Miyazaki.

01:43:46.979 --> 01:43:50.199
I think his movies are also beautiful. But, like,

01:43:50.260 --> 01:43:54.579
those are still movies that look far more stilted

01:43:54.579 --> 01:43:57.420
in their animation than Akira does. You think

01:43:57.420 --> 01:44:00.279
so? They're not nearly. I do think so, yeah.

01:44:00.600 --> 01:44:04.560
I mean, you brought this up before, Mike. I think

01:44:04.560 --> 01:44:07.119
it has a level of craft or whatever, but Kira

01:44:07.119 --> 01:44:09.460
is in no way stilted. It's so fucking off the

01:44:09.460 --> 01:44:13.500
wall all the time. It's buttery smooth, man.

01:44:13.659 --> 01:44:17.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a buttery smooth cinematic

01:44:17.539 --> 01:44:22.039
experience. Whereas... But it's always choosing

01:44:22.039 --> 01:44:24.920
angles and it's always choosing reflections.

01:44:25.500 --> 01:44:28.279
It's doing cinematic things that you wouldn't

01:44:28.279 --> 01:44:32.479
think of to do in many Miyazaki, even beautiful

01:44:32.479 --> 01:44:35.640
Miyazaki movies. I don't know. I feel a little

01:44:35.640 --> 01:44:39.579
differently. I don't... It's not fair to compare

01:44:39.579 --> 01:44:41.819
Miyazaki because I also think Miyazaki is...

01:44:42.079 --> 01:44:44.420
incredibly cinematic like we're talking about

01:44:44.420 --> 01:44:47.760
the two some of the best the two like most cinematic

01:44:47.760 --> 01:44:51.060
like anime directors or whatever you know and

01:44:51.060 --> 01:44:53.300
like satoshi kan as well like satoshi kan is

01:44:53.300 --> 01:44:55.880
also another have you seen many of his movies

01:44:55.880 --> 01:44:59.520
he's seen uh i've only seen perfect blue and

01:44:59.520 --> 01:45:02.479
um and i well i watched paranoia agent i showed

01:45:02.479 --> 01:45:05.159
him paranoid oh yeah like that's what i mean

01:45:05.159 --> 01:45:07.920
like like oh yeah those are beautiful but i don't

01:45:07.920 --> 01:45:09.399
even think i mean i guess i don't think of them

01:45:09.399 --> 01:45:12.090
as anime i think of them as like I mean, like,

01:45:12.090 --> 01:45:14.630
they are obviously animated in that style, but,

01:45:14.670 --> 01:45:17.649
like, you know, it's so thematically far away

01:45:17.649 --> 01:45:20.729
from, like, what I would imagine, you know. I

01:45:20.729 --> 01:45:22.350
think that's probably why Mike gave it to me.

01:45:22.489 --> 01:45:24.970
I guess the point I'm trying to make about the

01:45:24.970 --> 01:45:29.289
level that Akira's at is that, like, it's actually

01:45:29.289 --> 01:45:32.829
far above all the rest of the shit that's at

01:45:32.829 --> 01:45:35.149
the top. You know what I mean? Like, it's, like,

01:45:35.510 --> 01:45:38.350
Miyazaki, Satoshi Kan, just from, like, not from,

01:45:38.390 --> 01:45:40.170
like, a story perspective, not from, like, a...

01:45:40.619 --> 01:45:42.500
you know, any of these like things that actually

01:45:42.500 --> 01:45:44.640
do matter, you know? Cause like, I don't think

01:45:44.640 --> 01:45:47.539
Akira, I don't, I don't actually like Akira as

01:45:47.539 --> 01:45:50.880
much as most Satoshi Kon movies probably. Right.

01:45:51.479 --> 01:45:53.220
You know what I mean? Like I think Satoshi Kon

01:45:53.220 --> 01:45:55.619
is like the best. But from like a sheer animation

01:45:55.619 --> 01:45:58.520
perspective, this is like from a sheer technical

01:45:58.520 --> 01:46:02.039
standpoint, I think Akira is like probably king.

01:46:03.000 --> 01:46:05.039
There's also the things that Akira does that

01:46:05.039 --> 01:46:07.000
we don't even notice that it does to advance

01:46:07.000 --> 01:46:11.260
the art form and stuff. The choice to have more

01:46:11.260 --> 01:46:13.439
keyframes is one, but there's the development

01:46:13.439 --> 01:46:15.579
of new pigments that have never been seen before.

01:46:16.779 --> 01:46:19.699
There's all sorts of weird, tiny developments.

01:46:20.539 --> 01:46:22.840
nobody would notice or care like i would never

01:46:22.840 --> 01:46:25.140
watch a care and be like oh that's such a great

01:46:25.140 --> 01:46:27.920
purple that it's so that changes my whole it's

01:46:27.920 --> 01:46:29.539
like no but like and also the fact that they

01:46:29.539 --> 01:46:31.399
cared about the purple enough means they cared

01:46:31.399 --> 01:46:33.000
about all the other things enough and it's all

01:46:33.000 --> 01:46:35.640
about like exactly every single thing needs to

01:46:35.640 --> 01:46:38.819
be like impressive to a nerd in his parents basement

01:46:38.819 --> 01:46:41.680
who's talking about the making of the thing the

01:46:41.680 --> 01:46:43.159
way that the schematics are the thing that's

01:46:43.159 --> 01:46:45.319
important to animate nerds or whatever like does

01:46:45.319 --> 01:46:47.340
it actually mean i i think that that was something

01:46:47.340 --> 01:46:49.619
that was important about akira like just like

01:46:49.619 --> 01:46:51.720
the schematics were important in necros like

01:46:51.720 --> 01:46:55.760
the animation process is important in akira um

01:46:55.760 --> 01:46:59.119
and like yeah i mean otomo was specifically trying

01:46:59.119 --> 01:47:02.880
to do things that like like he was trying to

01:47:02.880 --> 01:47:06.020
create He's making the job harder for himself

01:47:06.020 --> 01:47:08.539
all the time. Yeah, just making it as hard as

01:47:08.539 --> 01:47:11.000
possible. And it still didn't meet all of his

01:47:11.000 --> 01:47:13.039
expectations. You know what I mean? Because of

01:47:13.039 --> 01:47:16.260
Dr. Simmons. Because of Dr. Simmons. He's like,

01:47:16.300 --> 01:47:18.680
I really, really wish Dr. Simmons had made the

01:47:18.680 --> 01:47:21.920
cut. I can't wait. I know he's been working on

01:47:21.920 --> 01:47:25.659
like a reboot for like a long time. With Dr.

01:47:25.699 --> 01:47:27.880
Simmons. To do it again. Yeah, I want like frame

01:47:27.880 --> 01:47:30.600
one. It's just like Dr. Simmons. Boom. It's like,

01:47:30.659 --> 01:47:33.180
you know. So we know. We got the key players.

01:47:33.279 --> 01:47:35.279
You're like, oh, my God, he's alive. Thank God.

01:47:35.300 --> 01:47:38.399
That's how Kira 2 starts. Dr. Simmons, you're

01:47:38.399 --> 01:47:40.800
still here. I hate the way I framed it because

01:47:40.800 --> 01:47:44.039
I do, like, you know, to diminish the work of

01:47:44.039 --> 01:47:46.500
Miyazaki is retarded. Like, Miyazaki's movies

01:47:46.500 --> 01:47:50.119
are among the most beautiful animes ever created.

01:47:50.720 --> 01:47:53.359
And they are beautifully animated and so well

01:47:53.359 --> 01:47:56.859
drawn. And, like, it also has, like, the Disney

01:47:56.859 --> 01:47:59.159
budget shit where they get, like, amazing voice

01:47:59.159 --> 01:48:02.439
actors and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I love

01:48:02.439 --> 01:48:06.359
Miyazaki. It was just to make a point about how

01:48:06.359 --> 01:48:10.300
even Miyazaki doesn't make a film that is technically

01:48:10.300 --> 01:48:13.279
at the level of Akira. And I don't think anyone

01:48:13.279 --> 01:48:15.640
really has since. Or at least he doesn't make

01:48:15.640 --> 01:48:19.020
the job as hard for himself. as Otomo intentionally

01:48:19.020 --> 01:48:22.140
does. There are more shortcuts happening and

01:48:22.140 --> 01:48:25.359
stuff like that. And I think the anime is so

01:48:25.359 --> 01:48:28.260
good at taking shortcuts and working. This is

01:48:28.260 --> 01:48:30.260
something that you brought up before, Mike, is

01:48:30.260 --> 01:48:32.579
that they know exactly how many frames they need

01:48:32.579 --> 01:48:35.319
to draw to make the thing work. You know what

01:48:35.319 --> 01:48:38.920
I mean? Yeah. No more than that. Yeah, exactly.

01:48:38.939 --> 01:48:40.880
No more than that. And if they do more, great.

01:48:41.159 --> 01:48:43.020
Then they can make something that looks as beautiful

01:48:43.020 --> 01:48:47.480
as the new Evangelion movies or whatever. or

01:48:47.480 --> 01:48:49.539
Your Name or Weathering With You or whatever,

01:48:49.739 --> 01:48:53.359
you know, like, or Miyazaki or Satoshi Kan, they

01:48:53.359 --> 01:48:56.439
can get to that level. But even if they don't,

01:48:56.439 --> 01:49:00.659
like, I do think that a lot of Evangelion is

01:49:00.659 --> 01:49:02.500
beautifully animated, even though they're using

01:49:02.500 --> 01:49:05.619
as little frames as possible. And I do think

01:49:05.619 --> 01:49:08.640
that, like, Mushishi is beautiful. I do think

01:49:08.640 --> 01:49:12.079
that, like, Kino's Journey is beautiful. Kino's

01:49:12.079 --> 01:49:15.270
Journey, too. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I think those

01:49:15.270 --> 01:49:19.170
are beautiful looking shows. Like they, but yeah,

01:49:19.250 --> 01:49:21.970
I don't know. It's just like a nerdy, it's a

01:49:21.970 --> 01:49:25.390
nerdy perspective to be like, yeah, there could

01:49:25.390 --> 01:49:27.470
be more in between frames and like the backgrounds

01:49:27.470 --> 01:49:29.949
could be painted a little bit better. But that's

01:49:29.949 --> 01:49:32.149
exactly the type of nerdy shit that anime people

01:49:32.149 --> 01:49:34.750
would talk about. But also that cinema too, right?

01:49:34.810 --> 01:49:37.569
To be like, if you have detail to. Yeah, cinema.

01:49:37.949 --> 01:49:40.109
Yeah. Like if you have, if you have, you know,

01:49:40.130 --> 01:49:42.170
if there's something you can do to make this

01:49:42.170 --> 01:49:46.060
better, more authentic. more vibrant to bring

01:49:46.060 --> 01:49:48.300
out your themes better you should do it and it's

01:49:48.300 --> 01:49:51.699
yeah i mean i think most people won't pick up

01:49:51.699 --> 01:49:55.579
on yeah yeah the purples in this yeah a couple

01:49:55.579 --> 01:49:58.939
more a couple more key frames but they will they

01:49:58.939 --> 01:50:01.359
you see the effort over time like you just see

01:50:01.359 --> 01:50:05.199
it like it is a thing of quality yeah like there's

01:50:05.199 --> 01:50:08.640
i don't know there's this one shot in like the

01:50:08.640 --> 01:50:13.239
first time that kaneda and tetsuo actually fight

01:50:13.239 --> 01:50:16.020
each other in the movie where it cuts back to

01:50:16.020 --> 01:50:18.720
Kaneda and he's on the ground and it's a still

01:50:18.720 --> 01:50:21.399
frame it's a reaction shot but it holds on him

01:50:21.399 --> 01:50:23.819
for three seconds and it's a reused shot and

01:50:23.819 --> 01:50:27.039
it's like sure yeah to me I always like I would

01:50:27.039 --> 01:50:29.260
see things like that and immediately be like

01:50:29.260 --> 01:50:32.739
this is I don't I don't know like almost like

01:50:32.739 --> 01:50:34.779
cheating you know what I mean but it is like

01:50:34.779 --> 01:50:38.939
it's obviously very obviously not and I don't

01:50:38.939 --> 01:50:42.600
know like it kind of is I mean not really They

01:50:42.600 --> 01:50:45.600
take those shortcuts so that they can achieve

01:50:45.600 --> 01:50:48.699
the things in the movie that are truly mine.

01:50:48.800 --> 01:50:51.659
The thing that takes my breath away to this day

01:50:51.659 --> 01:50:58.180
is the shot where when Tetsuo and Kei first start

01:50:58.180 --> 01:51:03.220
fighting and the giant cryogenic Akira ball just

01:51:03.220 --> 01:51:06.340
rises out of the earth and all the pipes are

01:51:06.340 --> 01:51:08.920
coming out of it and all the smoke is going through

01:51:08.920 --> 01:51:11.130
the air. That is one of the most like breathtaking

01:51:11.130 --> 01:51:15.569
fucking animation sequences ever. You know, it's

01:51:15.569 --> 01:51:19.750
like, that's like 24 frames per second. Shit.

01:51:20.050 --> 01:51:22.649
There's like slow motion shots. Many, many layers

01:51:22.649 --> 01:51:25.470
happening too. It's not like it's 24 one frames.

01:51:25.630 --> 01:51:29.609
It's like 24 times, like 30 frames. Like, yeah.

01:51:29.710 --> 01:51:32.189
And the Olympic stadium fight is fucking insane.

01:51:32.350 --> 01:51:34.810
Like watching kind of a fucking like drive on

01:51:34.810 --> 01:51:36.850
pieces of the ground that are coming up under

01:51:36.850 --> 01:51:38.659
him. It's like, That's the coolest shit in the

01:51:38.659 --> 01:51:41.659
world. And it's unbelievably smooth. And Tetsuo's

01:51:41.659 --> 01:51:45.500
morphing and stuff. As you said, Five Night at

01:51:45.500 --> 01:51:49.739
Freddy's. I don't know. All that stuff is so

01:51:49.739 --> 01:51:53.159
intricate. And then all the crowd scenes. Just

01:51:53.159 --> 01:51:55.500
all the people. They're not just cutting and

01:51:55.500 --> 01:51:59.460
pasting or using some kind of computer program

01:51:59.460 --> 01:52:05.810
to procedurally generate a bunch of crowds. That

01:52:05.810 --> 01:52:08.689
shit is all insane. It's really, really something.

01:52:10.090 --> 01:52:12.869
But anyway, I could go on and on about just how

01:52:12.869 --> 01:52:16.810
incredible I think the animation is. That's part

01:52:16.810 --> 01:52:19.329
of it. The animation, the spectacle, the music.

01:52:20.069 --> 01:52:23.109
For me, it's Disney level at their best and whatever.

01:52:23.390 --> 01:52:25.750
I was saying, the last time I watched The Little

01:52:25.750 --> 01:52:29.970
Mermaid, I realized, dude, this is... You were

01:52:29.970 --> 01:52:31.710
saying people don't notice this stuff, but their

01:52:31.710 --> 01:52:35.500
brains do. I think there's a reason why... The

01:52:35.500 --> 01:52:37.140
Little Mermaid is the beginning of the Disney

01:52:37.140 --> 01:52:39.680
Renaissance because it is easily one of the most

01:52:39.680 --> 01:52:43.260
cinematic -looking Disney movies. And as the

01:52:43.260 --> 01:52:46.159
Perfume Nationalist pointed out, it's the first

01:52:46.159 --> 01:52:48.680
anime -influenced Disney movie, which is very

01:52:48.680 --> 01:52:51.020
obvious when you watch it again. It's so perverted.

01:52:51.020 --> 01:52:53.239
It's all about tentacles and getting a pussy.

01:52:53.439 --> 01:52:56.750
Exactly. Like, it's... Everybody's sexy in it

01:52:56.750 --> 01:52:59.489
and everybody's trying... Like, it is a total

01:52:59.489 --> 01:53:02.529
anime movie. Even her dad is sexy. Like, every

01:53:02.529 --> 01:53:04.529
single character is sexy the whole time. Yeah,

01:53:04.550 --> 01:53:06.829
but, like, that's literally... Absolutely. Like,

01:53:06.829 --> 01:53:09.189
they all are all the time in all the Disney movies.

01:53:09.270 --> 01:53:10.949
They made the fuckable... That's the company

01:53:10.949 --> 01:53:12.890
that made the fuckable fox. The eyes are far

01:53:12.890 --> 01:53:14.109
bigger... They literally, like, birthed furs.

01:53:14.149 --> 01:53:16.149
No, but the eyes are far bigger in Little Mermaid

01:53:16.149 --> 01:53:18.289
than any previous Disney movies and the waists

01:53:18.289 --> 01:53:19.970
are far thinner and whatever. They're starting

01:53:19.970 --> 01:53:21.689
to do... Is that true? Yeah, yeah. If you look

01:53:21.689 --> 01:53:23.170
at it, it is. This sounds like some... If you

01:53:23.170 --> 01:53:26.750
look at it... Look at her face. She's a little

01:53:26.750 --> 01:53:28.409
cuter than all the other ones because she looks

01:53:28.409 --> 01:53:31.029
a little lit anime. So what's the last movie

01:53:31.029 --> 01:53:33.310
before that? Is it like Fievel Goes West? Because

01:53:33.310 --> 01:53:35.430
that would prove the point, I feel like. It's

01:53:35.430 --> 01:53:37.329
like Oliver and Company. Yeah, it's Oliver and

01:53:37.329 --> 01:53:41.689
Company, I think. The Little Mermaid is really

01:53:41.689 --> 01:53:44.590
like, that's when a new CEO, Jeffrey Katzenberg,

01:53:44.630 --> 01:53:46.810
took over the company. They overhauled shit.

01:53:46.890 --> 01:53:51.250
They were really gunning for something that would

01:53:51.250 --> 01:53:54.420
like... bring disney back from the dead like

01:53:54.420 --> 01:53:57.619
for for two decades they were kind of like making

01:53:57.619 --> 01:54:00.460
pretty mid movies with pretty bad animation and

01:54:00.460 --> 01:54:03.470
even in the 60s dude like they were, like, already

01:54:03.470 --> 01:54:06.829
reusing tons of, like, animations and tracing

01:54:06.829 --> 01:54:08.670
over them to create, like, stuff. They still

01:54:08.670 --> 01:54:09.949
do, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean?

01:54:09.949 --> 01:54:11.850
They're doing Lilo and Stitch still. Yeah, I

01:54:11.850 --> 01:54:13.510
mean, like, you can just see, like, oh, that's

01:54:13.510 --> 01:54:15.989
the dance that the character does in Robin Hood

01:54:15.989 --> 01:54:18.609
that they just reused for this or that. Fox and

01:54:18.609 --> 01:54:20.189
the Hound. I mean, really, it's a lot of, like,

01:54:20.310 --> 01:54:22.350
a lot of the stuff. Robin Hood reused tons of

01:54:22.350 --> 01:54:24.710
animations from stuff in the 50s and whatever.

01:54:25.029 --> 01:54:27.369
Robin Hood, yeah, there was stuff from... They

01:54:27.369 --> 01:54:28.930
were tracing. They were tracing tons of stuff.

01:54:29.029 --> 01:54:31.689
Way to go. And they were... Yeah. Reusing frames

01:54:31.689 --> 01:54:34.529
and animation. Yeah, no, no. The Christopher

01:54:34.529 --> 01:54:38.649
Robin in Winnie the Pooh is the same. There's

01:54:38.649 --> 01:54:40.829
like an animated sequence of Christopher Robin

01:54:40.829 --> 01:54:43.149
walking through the 100 -acre wood and throwing

01:54:43.149 --> 01:54:45.189
a rock. That's exactly the same animation as

01:54:45.189 --> 01:54:48.789
Mowgli. Oh, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

01:54:49.350 --> 01:54:54.210
And stuff like that. So they were dealing with

01:54:54.210 --> 01:54:55.550
an infrastructure that already existed anyway.

01:54:55.949 --> 01:54:57.890
So Little Mermaid's a movie where, like, the

01:54:57.890 --> 01:55:01.550
camera does 360 -degree movements around a character

01:55:01.550 --> 01:55:04.350
where there's, like, actual, like, cinematic

01:55:04.350 --> 01:55:07.149
lighting effects and mood and atmosphere and

01:55:07.149 --> 01:55:09.430
all kinds of, like, I don't know. It's, like,

01:55:09.449 --> 01:55:11.350
incredibly cinematic compared to what they've

01:55:11.350 --> 01:55:13.789
been doing, like, the two decades before. And

01:55:13.789 --> 01:55:15.170
even compared to, like, Sleeping Beauty. Like,

01:55:15.210 --> 01:55:18.909
Sleeping Beauty is incredibly beautifully animated.

01:55:19.600 --> 01:55:22.420
But it doesn't try to do all these wild cinematic

01:55:22.420 --> 01:55:27.279
angles. There's no three -dimensional camera

01:55:27.279 --> 01:55:30.119
movements. There's no Spielbergian camera movements.

01:55:30.319 --> 01:55:33.319
Everything is very flat. Everything is very two

01:55:33.319 --> 01:55:36.159
-dimensional. And that's kind of the way Disney

01:55:36.159 --> 01:55:39.899
always was up until the 90s. And then they start

01:55:39.899 --> 01:55:42.520
bringing the CGI elements in so that like...

01:55:42.750 --> 01:55:45.229
Beauty and the Beast has the famous CGI -generated

01:55:45.229 --> 01:55:48.670
ballroom so they can do these sweeping 360 -degree

01:55:48.670 --> 01:55:50.670
camera movements around the characters. Because

01:55:50.670 --> 01:55:53.130
you know it's really hard to animate a checkered

01:55:53.130 --> 01:55:55.130
grid going in three... You know what I mean?

01:55:55.310 --> 01:55:57.310
That was the easiest part of that thing to animate,

01:55:57.489 --> 01:56:00.090
and that was the part they put in CGI. Well,

01:56:00.170 --> 01:56:03.510
no, it's the chandelier. It's the walls. It's

01:56:03.510 --> 01:56:06.699
a lot of elements. But it looks like shit. It

01:56:06.699 --> 01:56:08.880
does. It looks like shit now. When you look at

01:56:08.880 --> 01:56:12.960
it now, it looks clunky. No, you're right. The

01:56:12.960 --> 01:56:15.859
CG. But Little Mermaid doesn't because it's all

01:56:15.859 --> 01:56:17.600
hand -drawn. There's nothing happening in the

01:56:17.600 --> 01:56:21.960
computer. They just had to draw the character

01:56:21.960 --> 01:56:27.439
moving in 360 or whatever. I don't know. It's

01:56:27.439 --> 01:56:29.439
super cool. But anyway, that was a long -winded

01:56:29.439 --> 01:56:32.140
way of just being like, there is something about

01:56:32.140 --> 01:56:35.039
actually... working that hard on something and

01:56:35.039 --> 01:56:37.039
actually putting all that detail in that audiences

01:56:37.039 --> 01:56:40.600
do respond to even if they don't really like

01:56:40.600 --> 01:56:43.380
intellectually notice it you know like I remember

01:56:43.380 --> 01:56:45.239
being a kid and really feeling like there wasn't

01:56:45.239 --> 01:56:47.260
much of a difference between 101 Dalmatians and

01:56:47.260 --> 01:56:49.739
The Lion King like it didn't matter to me but

01:56:49.739 --> 01:56:53.199
like I think it does kind of matter like I don't

01:56:53.199 --> 01:56:54.960
know I think there's a reason why The Lion King

01:56:54.960 --> 01:56:59.819
was such a huge hit because it's just the level

01:56:59.819 --> 01:57:03.149
of work and care put into that movie on every

01:57:03.149 --> 01:57:05.229
level and all the details and all the songwriting

01:57:05.229 --> 01:57:10.409
and all the writing. I don't know. I think that's

01:57:10.409 --> 01:57:12.390
the level of care that goes to Akira and the

01:57:12.390 --> 01:57:15.869
level of care that I just don't see in many films

01:57:15.869 --> 01:57:17.470
in general these days, but especially animations.

01:57:18.409 --> 01:57:20.949
But it's also probably why Akira has endured.

01:57:21.390 --> 01:57:24.630
You don't get the title of potentially the best

01:57:24.630 --> 01:57:27.449
animated movie of all time because everyone's

01:57:27.449 --> 01:57:29.630
like, yo, the story's just really dope. It's

01:57:29.630 --> 01:57:32.579
just... It looks and sounds so fucking good,

01:57:32.680 --> 01:57:35.399
you cannot deny the quality of this thing. Just

01:57:35.399 --> 01:57:39.340
look at it. Dude, if it came out today, you'd

01:57:39.340 --> 01:57:42.880
be like, yeah, that's contemporary. You know

01:57:42.880 --> 01:57:46.880
what I mean? It might not be as impressive or

01:57:46.880 --> 01:57:50.020
something, but it wouldn't stand out as being

01:57:50.020 --> 01:57:52.800
something cheap or whatever. Yeah, totally. Yeah,

01:57:52.819 --> 01:57:56.739
that's state of the art. Or even dated. Nothing

01:57:56.739 --> 01:57:59.960
dated about it at all, really. I mean, there's

01:57:59.960 --> 01:58:02.000
things of its date and there's things that talk

01:58:02.000 --> 01:58:05.739
about its date or whatever, but it plays as modern.

01:58:05.979 --> 01:58:07.979
Yeah. And like that interview I was listening

01:58:07.979 --> 01:58:10.859
to with Otomo, he talks about like, you know,

01:58:10.899 --> 01:58:14.079
in 88 when it came out, and I think he did this

01:58:14.079 --> 01:58:16.159
interview in like 93 or something like that.

01:58:17.000 --> 01:58:19.520
So it's like, you know, The Lion King just came

01:58:19.520 --> 01:58:22.039
out or something. He's starting to talk about

01:58:22.039 --> 01:58:24.460
computers and technology changing animation.

01:58:25.279 --> 01:58:28.840
And he has like a lot of positivity. for what

01:58:28.840 --> 01:58:31.020
can be done in animation in the future because

01:58:31.020 --> 01:58:34.159
of these technologies. And that hasn't aged well,

01:58:34.279 --> 01:58:37.100
kind of looking at him talk about that. And just

01:58:37.100 --> 01:58:39.520
like, nah, dude, you don't realize that at that

01:58:39.520 --> 01:58:43.420
moment you were creating the high watermark.

01:58:43.720 --> 01:58:46.079
You know what I mean? And that all this computer

01:58:46.079 --> 01:58:48.239
technology and all this shit that you want to

01:58:48.239 --> 01:58:51.260
start engaging with to make even better animated

01:58:51.260 --> 01:58:54.640
movies, that hasn't really paid off quite like

01:58:54.640 --> 01:58:58.000
he's talking about. Yeah, the future's always

01:58:58.000 --> 01:59:01.060
bright until it gets here. That's so funny. Yeah.

01:59:01.260 --> 01:59:03.880
Yeah, the other thing I really wanted to do this

01:59:03.880 --> 01:59:06.319
week before this podcast but didn't was rewatch

01:59:06.319 --> 01:59:08.939
Steam Boy. which I remember as being just rock

01:59:08.939 --> 01:59:10.359
and boring. It's like his anime from 2000, right?

01:59:10.439 --> 01:59:12.220
Yeah, from like 2005, I think, or something.

01:59:12.539 --> 01:59:14.680
That's a dead zone for entertainment, period.

01:59:15.500 --> 01:59:18.979
But I remember it as just being so boring and

01:59:18.979 --> 01:59:22.020
slow, but I'm sure it's not. I'm sure there's

01:59:22.020 --> 01:59:23.420
got to be something awesome about it. But I think

01:59:23.420 --> 01:59:24.739
there's CG bullshit in that movie, right? I do

01:59:24.739 --> 01:59:26.720
remember it being beautifully animated. And there's

01:59:26.720 --> 01:59:29.859
CG stuff in it, yeah. Because I was right around

01:59:29.859 --> 01:59:32.279
Last Exile and shit when that started happening.

01:59:32.279 --> 01:59:35.399
Dude, CG stuff in anime just dates it so bad.

01:59:35.779 --> 01:59:38.569
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's really from like 2005

01:59:38.569 --> 01:59:43.250
to like 2015 or whatever. I was saying this too

01:59:43.250 --> 01:59:46.270
about like the difference between Fantasia and

01:59:46.270 --> 01:59:50.869
Fantasia 2000. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God, dude. That's

01:59:50.869 --> 01:59:52.970
like a great example of like the promise of technology

01:59:52.970 --> 01:59:56.560
just not paying off. Yep. Fantasia is also just

01:59:56.560 --> 01:59:58.699
one of the most beautifully animated movies ever

01:59:58.699 --> 02:00:01.659
made. And Fantasia 2000, by comparison, is like,

02:00:01.819 --> 02:00:04.140
it's a travesty, dude. Well, it's one of those

02:00:04.140 --> 02:00:06.479
things where, like, if you watch it and then

02:00:06.479 --> 02:00:08.640
you show it to somebody and then you go, like,

02:00:08.640 --> 02:00:10.520
do you know anyone who would actually want to

02:00:10.520 --> 02:00:12.960
watch this? I can't think of a single person

02:00:12.960 --> 02:00:15.739
who would be like, yes. Like, who the fuck was

02:00:15.739 --> 02:00:18.319
that? Like, it's a tech demo that they turned

02:00:18.319 --> 02:00:21.359
into a movie. Yeah, exactly. Maybe we weren't

02:00:21.359 --> 02:00:24.840
meant to battle with that ultimate power. Yeah,

02:00:24.899 --> 02:00:26.699
but then like one line later, he's like, but

02:00:26.699 --> 02:00:28.460
we got to do it. We got to grab it. Let's do

02:00:28.460 --> 02:00:30.560
it. Yeah, I think he says literally, he's like,

02:00:30.600 --> 02:00:33.079
but we have no choice but to grasp it and put

02:00:33.079 --> 02:00:34.899
it under our control. And it's like, oh, gossip.

02:00:34.899 --> 02:00:36.220
It's like the power of a god. He's like, yeah,

02:00:36.220 --> 02:00:40.300
no. Yeah, that's exactly it. That's why I really

02:00:40.300 --> 02:00:42.680
don't understand why the colonel is like mad

02:00:42.680 --> 02:00:44.460
at the scientist at the end when he didn't show

02:00:44.460 --> 02:00:46.939
him. I don't get it either. I don't get it either.

02:00:47.020 --> 02:00:50.060
Well, I mean, yeah, he keeps telling the scientist

02:00:50.060 --> 02:00:52.510
like. go ahead and do it, but just make sure

02:00:52.510 --> 02:00:54.750
you can keep, you know, an eye on it. And he's

02:00:54.750 --> 02:00:56.010
like, but I can't keep an eye on it. It's like,

02:00:56.050 --> 02:01:00.149
well, just keep an eye on it. All right. He comes

02:01:00.149 --> 02:01:02.510
back. He's like, you mean to tell me that the

02:01:02.510 --> 02:01:05.670
pattern, he's like the pattern. He's also wrong

02:01:05.670 --> 02:01:07.590
about a bunch of shit. Did you, did you notice

02:01:07.590 --> 02:01:11.270
in the, in the manga, like when. Akira is first

02:01:11.270 --> 02:01:14.430
being birthed out of the cryo chamber or whatever.

02:01:15.229 --> 02:01:16.689
The scientist is there. He's like, we need to

02:01:16.689 --> 02:01:17.930
hit the stop button. He's like, don't hit that.

02:01:17.970 --> 02:01:20.130
That's not Akira. And then like five minutes,

02:01:20.210 --> 02:01:22.149
five pages later, they're like, oh, the alarm's

02:01:22.149 --> 02:01:23.989
going off. Yeah, and then the dude freezes there

02:01:23.989 --> 02:01:26.630
right in front of him. And he doesn't even say

02:01:26.630 --> 02:01:28.729
I was wrong. He's just like, oh, all right. Well,

02:01:28.750 --> 02:01:31.890
he never says he's wrong. But he's wrong a lot.

02:01:32.170 --> 02:01:34.090
And then like there are a bunch of times in the

02:01:34.090 --> 02:01:35.670
comics. In the first two books, he's only ever

02:01:35.670 --> 02:01:39.199
wrong. The colonel as heroic character doesn't

02:01:39.199 --> 02:01:43.180
exist really until book four. Sure, sure, yeah.

02:01:43.300 --> 02:01:45.859
He's definitely just a jarhead. Yeah, absolutely.

02:01:46.380 --> 02:01:49.220
I mean, in the movie, what does he say in the

02:01:49.220 --> 02:01:51.500
movie? He says, it's not my job to believe. I

02:01:51.500 --> 02:01:54.079
think like a soldier. Well, he says it's not

02:01:54.079 --> 02:01:56.340
my job to believe or not disbelieve. It's to

02:01:56.340 --> 02:01:59.979
act or not act. Yep, that's it. Yeah. And it's

02:01:59.979 --> 02:02:02.420
like, those are the two like central philosophies

02:02:02.420 --> 02:02:04.239
in the movie, right? The scientific thing where

02:02:04.239 --> 02:02:06.220
it's like, it's the think and not act and he

02:02:06.220 --> 02:02:08.880
thinks his is completely the opposite. Yeah,

02:02:08.939 --> 02:02:10.899
the scientist really isn't much of an actor.

02:02:11.000 --> 02:02:12.560
He doesn't really do anything. He just like sits

02:02:12.560 --> 02:02:15.300
around reading like... Well, the scientist is

02:02:15.300 --> 02:02:18.500
a machine. The scientist is a piece of an object

02:02:18.500 --> 02:02:20.840
in the room. And I love in the mangas that they

02:02:20.840 --> 02:02:22.159
don't do in the movie because the character designer,

02:02:22.199 --> 02:02:24.890
the first... uh scientist is so much better than

02:02:24.890 --> 02:02:26.149
the other scientists they just keep them all

02:02:26.149 --> 02:02:27.670
the way they kill the first scientist you mean

02:02:27.670 --> 02:02:29.810
the first scientist who who freezes in the book

02:02:30.329 --> 02:02:32.130
I just love how in the book there's like three

02:02:32.130 --> 02:02:35.529
other scientists after that. But they're just

02:02:35.529 --> 02:02:37.710
totally disposable and you don't give a fuck

02:02:37.710 --> 02:02:40.869
about them because they're scientists. Obviously

02:02:40.869 --> 02:02:42.310
you don't give a fuck about them. They're monsters.

02:02:42.729 --> 02:02:45.430
You know what I mean? Obviously they're idiots

02:02:45.430 --> 02:02:49.069
who care about fucking science. But also they're

02:02:49.069 --> 02:02:52.289
the cause of this problem. They're the cause

02:02:52.289 --> 02:02:53.609
of all the problems. They're fucking scientists.

02:02:53.770 --> 02:02:57.170
But their hypothetical idea making is what created

02:02:57.170 --> 02:03:00.640
this crisis. They don't think to act except theoretically.

02:03:00.899 --> 02:03:03.439
And then once their theories bloom into something

02:03:03.439 --> 02:03:05.979
real, they completely divorce themselves from

02:03:05.979 --> 02:03:08.680
it. And it's like, yeah, like that's why the

02:03:08.680 --> 02:03:10.239
colonel fucking hates the scientists because

02:03:10.239 --> 02:03:12.699
he feels like he's cleaning up their messes constantly.

02:03:12.840 --> 02:03:15.760
And in the world of Akira, he is. It's just like

02:03:15.760 --> 02:03:17.460
they put out a thing and then you're like, what

02:03:17.460 --> 02:03:18.859
do I need to do to fix this? And they're like,

02:03:18.920 --> 02:03:20.359
turn it off and turn it back on. And it's like,

02:03:20.460 --> 02:03:22.829
what are you... What are you talking about? What

02:03:22.829 --> 02:03:26.609
did you make that I'm fixing and now you're anonymously

02:03:26.609 --> 02:03:29.930
not... No, this is evil. This is a real evil.

02:03:29.989 --> 02:03:31.710
These people should be taken out. Every time

02:03:31.710 --> 02:03:34.210
I need to reset my computer, let's kill the scientist.

02:03:34.369 --> 02:03:36.069
Let's get them out of here and reset and get

02:03:36.069 --> 02:03:38.789
a new one in. That's the way to fix... They just

02:03:38.789 --> 02:03:41.250
told me that was the way to fix the problem and

02:03:41.250 --> 02:03:44.329
they are the problem, so fix it. And I love that

02:03:44.329 --> 02:03:46.569
Akira... I love that Otomo treats them that way.

02:03:46.609 --> 02:03:48.859
It's like... One's gone. Let's get another one

02:03:48.859 --> 02:03:51.039
in here. General needs another one. General's

02:03:51.039 --> 02:03:53.479
not replaceable. General stays all the way. Scientists,

02:03:53.699 --> 02:03:55.880
they're human. They're functionaries. They're

02:03:55.880 --> 02:03:58.359
nothing. They're nothing. Just like in the real

02:03:58.359 --> 02:04:01.079
world. No, they're nothing. Yeah. I mean, he

02:04:01.079 --> 02:04:03.520
basically, I mean, I guess it's a scientific

02:04:03.520 --> 02:04:05.699
operation, but it's a military operation. Like,

02:04:05.699 --> 02:04:08.500
he has complete... control over them and he's

02:04:08.500 --> 02:04:10.720
like he represents them he is the one who has

02:04:10.720 --> 02:04:12.619
to go to the supreme council and ask for more

02:04:12.619 --> 02:04:15.859
money i love how he doesn't say anything real

02:04:15.859 --> 02:04:18.739
to the council ever like that every time we see

02:04:18.739 --> 02:04:20.439
like the politics playing out it's just people

02:04:20.439 --> 02:04:22.640
lying to each other it's not even them like being

02:04:22.640 --> 02:04:24.520
like how do we twist this in the right way it's

02:04:24.520 --> 02:04:27.600
like no this didn't happen in the movie sometimes

02:04:27.600 --> 02:04:29.720
they're yelling at each other about the insults

02:04:29.720 --> 02:04:33.090
they say right Well, they are just fighting that

02:04:33.090 --> 02:04:34.890
whole time in that scene. They're just like fighting

02:04:34.890 --> 02:04:36.529
and no one's listening to one another. They're

02:04:36.529 --> 02:04:38.489
all trying to point at whose fault it is. Yeah,

02:04:38.510 --> 02:04:39.850
they're all just trying to point at whose fault

02:04:39.850 --> 02:04:42.010
it is and whatever. In the manga, they're literally

02:04:42.010 --> 02:04:44.189
like, they don't even know what's happening because

02:04:44.189 --> 02:04:45.529
the general's just like, that's not happening.

02:04:45.569 --> 02:04:47.270
No, it was a malfunction. They're like, obviously

02:04:47.270 --> 02:04:48.850
it wasn't a malfunction. He's like, well, it

02:04:48.850 --> 02:04:50.750
was a malfunction. So I'll see you guys later.

02:04:50.890 --> 02:04:53.050
The chickens do eventually come home to roost

02:04:53.050 --> 02:04:55.270
when they try and arrest him. But then with literally

02:04:55.270 --> 02:04:58.500
one line, he's like. think about it you're puppets

02:04:58.500 --> 02:04:59.939
and they're like you know what maybe we'd like

02:04:59.939 --> 02:05:03.619
you to be the puppeteer dude i i love the i love

02:05:03.619 --> 02:05:06.159
that scene where he's like the coup it's the

02:05:06.159 --> 02:05:08.439
coup right like i love the whole military coup

02:05:08.439 --> 02:05:10.300
idea where he's just like you know what i'm not

02:05:10.300 --> 02:05:12.279
fucking listening to these guys and you know

02:05:12.279 --> 02:05:13.960
what none of you should either because you're

02:05:13.960 --> 02:05:16.340
all puppets of corrupt corrupt politicians and

02:05:16.340 --> 02:05:19.039
capitalists. He specifically says corrupt politicians

02:05:19.039 --> 02:05:23.380
and capitalists. The two. He's like, shoot him.

02:05:23.479 --> 02:05:27.220
He just orders this man to shoot that guy. In

02:05:27.220 --> 02:05:30.260
the comics, in the manga, when he says that,

02:05:30.340 --> 02:05:32.319
the guy's like, dude, thank God, because we've

02:05:32.319 --> 02:05:35.199
all been waiting for you to do this. We're all

02:05:35.199 --> 02:05:37.979
ready to go, but people have been expecting you

02:05:37.979 --> 02:05:40.619
to do this. It's needed to happen for a long

02:05:40.619 --> 02:05:43.840
time. I love that. Because essentially we're

02:05:43.840 --> 02:05:45.579
talking about fascism, right? We're just talking

02:05:45.579 --> 02:05:49.899
about dictatorship and how Japan is just calling

02:05:49.899 --> 02:05:52.020
out for this military dictatorship to fix it.

02:05:52.699 --> 02:05:56.260
It's fascinating, I think. Because Otomo's politics

02:05:56.260 --> 02:05:59.979
in this are not... There's no... Oh, there is

02:05:59.979 --> 02:06:01.539
a good guy. There's one good guy, but everybody

02:06:01.539 --> 02:06:04.420
else is corrupted, I think. There's not a good

02:06:04.420 --> 02:06:07.100
left and a good right or whatever. The only good

02:06:07.100 --> 02:06:09.520
guy in the movie is fucking Kaneda. Yeah, yeah.

02:06:09.560 --> 02:06:11.859
Kaneda's the only good guy. I really like the

02:06:11.859 --> 02:06:14.960
colonel. Well, again, the colonel is the other

02:06:14.960 --> 02:06:18.399
good guy, but he is like the... He's not an ideologue.

02:06:18.600 --> 02:06:20.760
He's like Hitler was a good guy. You know what

02:06:20.760 --> 02:06:24.359
I mean? He's like the guy who's... It's like

02:06:24.359 --> 02:06:26.939
the worst possible guy is like the good guy.

02:06:27.079 --> 02:06:29.460
You know what I mean? No, you got to go one further

02:06:29.460 --> 02:06:32.159
than that, I think. What, the emperor was a good

02:06:32.159 --> 02:06:33.699
guy? Just explain what that... What do you mean?

02:06:34.890 --> 02:06:37.170
It's like, I'm just saying, like, he's, like,

02:06:37.289 --> 02:06:40.449
the colonel represents the most, like, offensive

02:06:40.449 --> 02:06:42.510
possible politics. He's just, like, taking over

02:06:42.510 --> 02:06:45.130
the country through, like, a military dictatorship.

02:06:45.189 --> 02:06:47.289
He is the end of one spectrum, you mean. Like,

02:06:47.310 --> 02:06:49.970
he is fascism. Yeah, he is. Like, politically,

02:06:50.050 --> 02:06:52.750
he is just fascism. But, like, we understand

02:06:52.750 --> 02:06:54.710
him and his perspective. And that, like, yeah,

02:06:54.789 --> 02:06:56.449
somebody needed to do this or whatever. But.

02:06:57.199 --> 02:07:01.520
On paper, he is the worst guy. We all understand

02:07:01.520 --> 02:07:03.720
that the military leader that just decides to

02:07:03.720 --> 02:07:05.899
hold a gun up to the leaders and then take over

02:07:05.899 --> 02:07:08.180
and say, everybody report to me. And it doesn't

02:07:08.180 --> 02:07:10.760
matter that everything I'm saying is contradictory.

02:07:11.699 --> 02:07:14.739
Is that fascism if it's not part of a political

02:07:14.739 --> 02:07:18.479
system? Is that just like military totalitarianism?

02:07:18.520 --> 02:07:22.310
What is that actually? I don't know, whatever.

02:07:22.510 --> 02:07:26.329
I mean, if he's controlling, like, the, you know,

02:07:26.350 --> 02:07:28.750
flow of information to the people and whatever,

02:07:29.029 --> 02:07:31.689
and, like, he's got total totalitarian control

02:07:31.689 --> 02:07:33.609
over the entire government through, like, a military

02:07:33.609 --> 02:07:35.550
dictatorship. Like, if you want to call that

02:07:35.550 --> 02:07:37.409
something other than fascism, whatever. Yeah,

02:07:37.449 --> 02:07:40.640
but that's fascism. Yeah, it's like... All I

02:07:40.640 --> 02:07:43.039
know is that, like, in that moment, I'm rooting

02:07:43.039 --> 02:07:46.079
for him. Oh, I'm rooting for him, too. After,

02:07:46.180 --> 02:07:48.140
like, halfway through book two, I'm rooting for

02:07:48.140 --> 02:07:50.039
him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think it's interesting

02:07:50.039 --> 02:07:54.159
that Otomo puts a guy who is basically just,

02:07:54.220 --> 02:07:56.819
like, the worst, like a Hitler or something.

02:07:56.920 --> 02:07:59.060
Like a guy who's just, like... An empty vessel.

02:07:59.060 --> 02:08:01.119
Someone who does not believe what he says and

02:08:01.119 --> 02:08:03.899
does not say what he believes. Well... I think

02:08:03.899 --> 02:08:06.640
he does. No, he doesn't. He literally... It's

02:08:06.640 --> 02:08:08.479
not on him to believe or disbelieve. It's just

02:08:08.479 --> 02:08:10.720
to act or not act. Yeah, but he's a... It doesn't

02:08:10.720 --> 02:08:14.510
matter. In his... in his role as, like, acting

02:08:14.510 --> 02:08:18.010
whatever, as authority, he's constantly undermining

02:08:18.010 --> 02:08:20.989
himself. And he's lying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

02:08:21.470 --> 02:08:24.529
He's, like, not... We're not looking for, like,

02:08:24.529 --> 02:08:27.409
a nice, like, honest person to take over this

02:08:27.409 --> 02:08:28.829
or whatever. They're just calling out for fascists.

02:08:28.829 --> 02:08:30.489
Yeah, we're looking for fascists. Yeah, exactly.

02:08:30.590 --> 02:08:32.869
And that's what I think is interesting. He chose

02:08:32.869 --> 02:08:35.670
to do, we are just calling out for a fascist,

02:08:35.670 --> 02:08:38.109
and thank God there's a fascist here to take

02:08:38.109 --> 02:08:41.279
care of us. And in the end, like... I don't think

02:08:41.279 --> 02:08:42.779
it comes down on the side of like the general

02:08:42.779 --> 02:08:45.939
was right. I think that like my, my take on,

02:08:45.939 --> 02:08:49.539
on essentially like that we're talking about

02:08:49.539 --> 02:08:52.079
these other daddies of the capitalists or the

02:08:52.079 --> 02:08:54.720
military or the Americans who's going to come

02:08:54.720 --> 02:08:56.659
in and save us or whatever. But like in the end,

02:08:56.680 --> 02:08:59.560
it's like, it's punk rock. It's just kind of

02:08:59.560 --> 02:09:02.439
does the only, the only pure one. And that's

02:09:02.439 --> 02:09:04.869
because he's like, yo, fuck you. Like that's

02:09:04.869 --> 02:09:07.310
like, oh, yeah, fuck all of this. I just want

02:09:07.310 --> 02:09:09.470
to fuck girls and drive my motorcycle. But that's

02:09:09.470 --> 02:09:11.869
the ultimate hyper individualism, right? That

02:09:11.869 --> 02:09:14.529
like he's like, I'm single handedly going to

02:09:14.529 --> 02:09:18.390
reject, you know, global government that literally

02:09:18.390 --> 02:09:21.869
has helicopters that they've come in to do shit

02:09:21.869 --> 02:09:24.310
with. I'm going to put a little sign on my door

02:09:24.310 --> 02:09:26.529
that says do not disturb. And then I'm going

02:09:26.529 --> 02:09:28.489
to drive into the horizon with my girlfriend

02:09:28.489 --> 02:09:30.109
and my ghost homies because they're not really

02:09:30.109 --> 02:09:32.090
dead if I pretend they're not dead. And it's

02:09:32.090 --> 02:09:35.069
like, oh, well, like. That technocracy that you

02:09:35.069 --> 02:09:38.109
abandoned will be back in 30 years again, and

02:09:38.109 --> 02:09:41.090
you'll be too old to do anything about it. But

02:09:41.090 --> 02:09:42.710
it doesn't matter because, like, you got yours.

02:09:43.430 --> 02:09:45.890
Kaneda's going to be okay. It's Gen X, man. It

02:09:45.890 --> 02:09:49.489
works for now. Like, you know what I mean? It's

02:09:49.489 --> 02:09:51.909
like, fuck all this, whatever. It's not about

02:09:51.909 --> 02:09:54.909
building a new, better whatever. It's about just,

02:09:54.970 --> 02:09:57.029
like, it's all fucked up. It's about being in

02:09:57.029 --> 02:10:01.789
charge of a pile of rubble. Yes. Well, as long

02:10:01.789 --> 02:10:05.449
as it's yours. Yeah. And I love the end of the

02:10:05.449 --> 02:10:07.789
manga where they kick them out and they're just

02:10:07.789 --> 02:10:09.529
like, this is our territory. Yeah, it's great.

02:10:09.670 --> 02:10:12.970
Because it does feel like, yeah, this is what

02:10:12.970 --> 02:10:15.869
Japan feels. You know what I mean? This is a

02:10:15.869 --> 02:10:19.949
national desire that's being expressed through

02:10:19.949 --> 02:10:23.640
this character. especially when you know america's

02:10:23.640 --> 02:10:25.779
putting their boot on them in the 80s and whatnot

02:10:25.779 --> 02:10:27.939
and they're becoming america and it's becoming

02:10:27.939 --> 02:10:30.739
them and it's all this history well they're seeing

02:10:30.739 --> 02:10:33.159
themselves be westernized and like part of the

02:10:33.159 --> 02:10:35.680
the message of akira and like canada and like

02:10:35.680 --> 02:10:39.500
the idea of like the the motorcycle gang is just

02:10:39.500 --> 02:10:42.460
to say like we don't necessarily know what we

02:10:42.460 --> 02:10:44.119
want but we don't want this shit we don't want

02:10:44.119 --> 02:10:47.060
like this capitalist bullshit you know what i

02:10:47.060 --> 02:10:49.670
mean like And that's it. It's a rejection of,

02:10:49.710 --> 02:10:51.789
like, yeah. Which to me is, like, not that different

02:10:51.789 --> 02:10:53.590
from River's Edge. You know what I mean? Or all

02:10:53.590 --> 02:10:56.109
the great punk rock, like, what's it called?

02:10:56.710 --> 02:10:58.829
Out of the Blue. You know what I mean? I haven't

02:10:58.829 --> 02:11:01.210
seen Out of the Blue yet. Lots of the great punk

02:11:01.210 --> 02:11:03.850
rock just fuck everything movies. Or it's like...

02:11:03.850 --> 02:11:07.529
Repo Man. Repo Man, you know? I just saw... Rather

02:11:07.529 --> 02:11:10.609
lie on my feet than live on my knees. I saw Greed

02:11:10.609 --> 02:11:13.210
last night. You guys ever see Greed? No. Greed

02:11:13.210 --> 02:11:16.350
from 1924. Eric von Stroheim's Greed. Okay. I

02:11:16.350 --> 02:11:19.310
went to the Glenn Ford mansion and saw it on

02:11:19.310 --> 02:11:22.590
16 millimeters. Sick. And it fucking, it's a

02:11:22.590 --> 02:11:26.590
story about a dude who marries some guy's, you

02:11:26.590 --> 02:11:30.050
know, wife. And then that guy's wife, who he

02:11:30.050 --> 02:11:33.210
gave away willingly, then wins the lottery for

02:11:33.210 --> 02:11:36.409
$5 ,000. So then the guy who gave his wife away

02:11:36.409 --> 02:11:39.359
is like mad the whole fucking time. And then

02:11:39.359 --> 02:11:42.180
the money ruins, you know, the life of the husband

02:11:42.180 --> 02:11:44.819
and wife. And the husband goes out to the desert

02:11:44.819 --> 02:11:46.979
to avoid people who are trying to get his money.

02:11:47.079 --> 02:11:49.680
And he has the $5 ,000 with him. And then the

02:11:49.680 --> 02:11:52.479
guy who sold his wife to him shows up with a

02:11:52.479 --> 02:11:54.840
gun and is like, give me your money. And he's

02:11:54.840 --> 02:11:57.140
like, my money's all on the donkey along with

02:11:57.140 --> 02:12:00.079
my water. So he shoots the donkey to stop it

02:12:00.079 --> 02:12:02.680
and accidentally shoots a hole in the canteen.

02:12:02.920 --> 02:12:05.100
And they both die out in the desert with their

02:12:05.100 --> 02:12:07.260
pile of money. When they're sitting out there

02:12:07.260 --> 02:12:10.380
getting ready to die, The husband who had the

02:12:10.380 --> 02:12:12.699
money is just like, I know we're going to die,

02:12:12.760 --> 02:12:14.619
but I want to hold on to it anyway. And it's

02:12:14.619 --> 02:12:16.619
just like, it's that idea of like, I don't give

02:12:16.619 --> 02:12:19.779
a fuck if it's completely valueless. It's mine.

02:12:20.520 --> 02:12:26.619
It felt like slightly, slightly. Do you understand

02:12:26.619 --> 02:12:30.539
how important that concept is? Mine. Yeah, exactly.

02:12:31.180 --> 02:12:38.529
Exactly. I don't know. Yeah, watch Greed, 1924,

02:12:38.829 --> 02:12:41.850
silent movie. Fuck yeah. Yeah, it's all right.

02:12:41.989 --> 02:12:44.529
Will do. It's like the great lost movie. It's

02:12:44.529 --> 02:12:46.789
like originally nine hours long, but MGM threw

02:12:46.789 --> 02:12:49.229
all of it away. So now it's only two and a half

02:12:49.229 --> 02:12:52.449
hours long. Wow. Totally worth watching, though.

02:12:52.489 --> 02:12:56.390
It's really fucking mean. I'm sorry. I didn't

02:12:56.390 --> 02:12:58.430
mean to hijack the podcast. I like a nice mean

02:12:58.430 --> 02:13:01.670
movie. This one's been going all over the place.

02:13:02.149 --> 02:13:04.750
Since we've come to another pause, can I pee

02:13:04.750 --> 02:13:07.590
again? I mean, are we pausing or are we ending

02:13:07.590 --> 02:13:10.270
this thing? I've got another little thing I'd

02:13:10.270 --> 02:13:13.210
like to get into after a pause. Okay. Would you

02:13:13.210 --> 02:13:15.369
want to not pause, obviously, just like step

02:13:15.369 --> 02:13:18.050
away? Step away. Just leave everything rolling?

02:13:19.409 --> 02:13:21.050
Sure. All right. I'm trying to have a cigarette,

02:13:21.090 --> 02:13:23.829
too, if that's cool. Oh, okay. Just leave it

02:13:23.829 --> 02:13:26.229
rolling for a sec. Is that all right? I just

02:13:26.229 --> 02:13:29.069
don't have anything to do. All right. I'll be

02:13:29.069 --> 02:13:30.069
quick. I'll be quick. I'll be quick. I'll be

02:13:30.069 --> 02:13:47.920
quick. I wish I could smoke a cigarette. We're

02:13:47.920 --> 02:13:51.619
back. All right, we're back. All right, we're

02:13:51.619 --> 02:13:55.640
back. So I guess the one subject that I wanted

02:13:55.640 --> 02:13:57.819
to bring up that we haven't kind of got to yet

02:13:57.819 --> 02:14:00.699
is just sort of like, I guess like the first

02:14:00.699 --> 02:14:04.739
time viewing of Akira experience. So most people

02:14:04.739 --> 02:14:07.460
watch Akira without reading the mangas, obviously.

02:14:07.680 --> 02:14:10.819
Like we gave Josh the very specific special experience

02:14:10.819 --> 02:14:12.819
of reading the mangas first and then watching

02:14:12.819 --> 02:14:14.979
the movies, which like most American audiences

02:14:14.979 --> 02:14:17.510
don't have. I don't have that experience. You

02:14:17.510 --> 02:14:19.970
don't have that experience. I like don't know

02:14:19.970 --> 02:14:22.409
anybody who actually got to read the manga first

02:14:22.409 --> 02:14:25.130
before seeing the movie the way that like original

02:14:25.130 --> 02:14:28.550
Japanese audiences would. So I think that like

02:14:28.550 --> 02:14:32.140
a lot of American anime viewers. have the experience

02:14:32.140 --> 02:14:34.119
of like oh i want to watch an anime here's the

02:14:34.119 --> 02:14:37.039
one like or maybe not so much anymore now there's

02:14:37.039 --> 02:14:38.340
like we talked about the infrastructure of so

02:14:38.340 --> 02:14:40.079
many animes and people are just going to watch

02:14:40.079 --> 02:14:41.779
the one their friend i do think that we have

02:14:41.779 --> 02:14:44.420
like we do still have a hierarchy or like a like

02:14:44.420 --> 02:14:47.319
a type of society that will go to like the hierarchical

02:14:47.319 --> 02:14:49.539
list on reddit or whatever and fucking akira

02:14:49.539 --> 02:14:51.180
is always at the right so i think i think people

02:14:51.180 --> 02:14:53.359
who are into film like will will be looking at

02:14:53.359 --> 02:14:55.720
their good point and and they'll be like oh i

02:14:55.720 --> 02:14:58.060
want to watch a anime film what anime film is

02:14:58.060 --> 02:15:00.310
worth watching and they'll see akira And they

02:15:00.310 --> 02:15:03.109
just put on this thing with no context. And I

02:15:03.109 --> 02:15:05.949
think that that can be an extremely irritating

02:15:05.949 --> 02:15:09.590
experience for people. That can really turn them

02:15:09.590 --> 02:15:12.069
off to anime. I think there's many things about

02:15:12.069 --> 02:15:14.550
anime that can really turn people off in general.

02:15:14.670 --> 02:15:17.890
We haven't even talked about it. One of the great

02:15:17.890 --> 02:15:20.350
anecdotes is the first... I don't even know the

02:15:20.350 --> 02:15:22.050
actual fucking anecdote. But I'm going to give

02:15:22.050 --> 02:15:25.449
you a summarized anecdote. But one of the first

02:15:25.449 --> 02:15:28.229
times they imported anime to the United States...

02:15:28.680 --> 02:15:31.319
I don't remember what film festival it was or

02:15:31.319 --> 02:15:34.140
what happened. However, there was a double bill

02:15:34.140 --> 02:15:39.899
where they put a double bill of My Neighbor Totoro

02:15:39.899 --> 02:15:43.840
and Arutsuka Doji Legend of the Overfiend in

02:15:43.840 --> 02:15:45.859
this film festival. That's not true. It is true.

02:15:46.239 --> 02:15:49.079
Dan Santelli explained this to me. But this was

02:15:49.079 --> 02:15:50.960
one of the first times America was introduced

02:15:50.960 --> 02:15:53.640
to anime. It was a double bill of these two anime

02:15:53.640 --> 02:15:55.979
features, My Neighbor Totoro, obviously the sweet

02:15:55.979 --> 02:15:58.460
Miyazaki movie for children, and Arutsuka. Doji

02:15:58.460 --> 02:16:01.260
Legend of the Overfiend, the movie where some

02:16:01.260 --> 02:16:05.539
serial killer wrote a thing about using Hitler's

02:16:05.539 --> 02:16:10.000
stuff to create a new Satan that gets all of

02:16:10.000 --> 02:16:12.880
his powers by tentacle raping women from both

02:16:12.880 --> 02:16:16.000
sides until they explode and then he can become

02:16:16.000 --> 02:16:21.479
the new Satan. Famously insane movie. So it's

02:16:21.479 --> 02:16:24.479
like the movie that popularized the tentacle

02:16:24.479 --> 02:16:28.460
porn genre and stuff. It is that thing. So part

02:16:28.460 --> 02:16:31.439
of, you know, anime in America is this thing

02:16:31.439 --> 02:16:35.500
of, like, it has a certain connotation to it

02:16:35.500 --> 02:16:37.620
of, like, this is for perverts, this is for weirdos,

02:16:37.620 --> 02:16:40.200
this is for whatever. And that played for a while

02:16:40.200 --> 02:16:43.180
as the vibe of anime. Now it's become more sort

02:16:43.180 --> 02:16:46.079
of ubiquitous. But I think that a lot of that

02:16:46.079 --> 02:16:49.559
reputation comes from that situation, but also

02:16:49.559 --> 02:16:52.260
from people just, like, going to movies like

02:16:52.260 --> 02:16:54.079
Akira out of context, just being like, what is

02:16:54.079 --> 02:16:55.940
this? Let's throw this on. It's going to be crazy.

02:16:56.520 --> 02:16:59.280
And then what the fuck even is this movie? Like,

02:16:59.299 --> 02:17:02.739
out of context, this movie is so bad at explaining

02:17:02.739 --> 02:17:07.040
itself and, like, so hard to follow. There are

02:17:07.040 --> 02:17:09.000
all these characters whose names, like, I guess

02:17:09.000 --> 02:17:10.479
you do get their names because they scream each

02:17:10.479 --> 02:17:11.719
other's names at each other all the time. But

02:17:11.719 --> 02:17:14.000
there are so many characters. A few do and a

02:17:14.000 --> 02:17:17.860
few do not. Yeah. And they all look very similar

02:17:17.860 --> 02:17:20.299
and they're all doing stuff in a world that you

02:17:20.299 --> 02:17:22.840
have no understanding of. And it's like about

02:17:22.840 --> 02:17:24.780
the politics of that world without any introduction

02:17:24.780 --> 02:17:27.180
to how the politics work, what the countries

02:17:27.180 --> 02:17:29.860
are, what like, I mean, and the whole thing is

02:17:29.860 --> 02:17:31.479
it's trying to keep you in the dark about what

02:17:31.479 --> 02:17:33.399
Akira is and what these things, but like, it

02:17:33.399 --> 02:17:35.459
doesn't give you anything to latch onto at all.

02:17:35.540 --> 02:17:38.409
Like there is, there's no like. I was watching

02:17:38.409 --> 02:17:40.149
it with my girlfriend this past week and like

02:17:40.149 --> 02:17:43.069
the opening scene, there's the guys on the motorcycle

02:17:43.069 --> 02:17:46.690
and then it cuts to Takashi and Ryu's lookalike

02:17:46.690 --> 02:17:49.170
running from the cops and then getting shot up

02:17:49.170 --> 02:17:50.950
or whatever. And then it cuts back to the motorcycles.

02:17:51.049 --> 02:17:53.069
She's just like, wait, what happened to the kid?

02:17:53.430 --> 02:17:55.129
Where's the motorcycles? What's happening? It's

02:17:55.129 --> 02:17:57.069
like, no, those are two different scenes with

02:17:57.069 --> 02:18:01.610
two different characters. Like it's not. It's

02:18:01.610 --> 02:18:04.569
not easy at all to pick up on. And then as the

02:18:04.569 --> 02:18:06.489
movie goes on, it doesn't get any easier. And

02:18:06.489 --> 02:18:09.629
then when it gets to the explanation of what's

02:18:09.629 --> 02:18:12.430
actually going on, it's things like roads and

02:18:12.430 --> 02:18:15.590
highways. They build things. And it's amoebas.

02:18:15.590 --> 02:18:17.350
And it's like it doesn't help you at all. And

02:18:17.350 --> 02:18:20.049
then in the end, it's still just like a big exploding

02:18:20.049 --> 02:18:23.010
thing of like, eh, whatever the fuck. It's he's

02:18:23.010 --> 02:18:26.280
in another world. it's over someday we might

02:18:26.280 --> 02:18:29.299
be able to because it's already begun there's

02:18:29.299 --> 02:18:32.100
nothing like and i showing this to my girlfriend

02:18:32.100 --> 02:18:34.940
she was like she was very irritated very very

02:18:34.940 --> 02:18:37.700
quick but they're like but as like but i was

02:18:37.700 --> 02:18:39.219
like oh no all right well this is this character

02:18:39.219 --> 02:18:41.020
and this is this thing they're doing this and

02:18:41.020 --> 02:18:43.620
it's about by the time we got about halfway through

02:18:43.620 --> 02:18:46.139
i was like i'm not explaining this anymore You're

02:18:46.139 --> 02:18:50.760
not going to get it. It's fine. It's vibes and

02:18:50.760 --> 02:18:52.739
it's things and it's cool because it's animation.

02:18:52.940 --> 02:18:56.059
And I feel like that's probably what most people

02:18:56.059 --> 02:18:58.440
get out of this movie is what she got out except

02:18:58.440 --> 02:19:00.659
that she was annoyed by it. But they were probably

02:19:00.659 --> 02:19:03.059
like... oh this is a little advanced for me this

02:19:03.059 --> 02:19:05.600
is cool what I'm not because that's how I watched

02:19:05.600 --> 02:19:07.120
it right like as a teenager it's just kind of

02:19:07.120 --> 02:19:09.120
like oh I don't really get what's going on but

02:19:09.120 --> 02:19:11.579
this is kind of it's very adult and interesting

02:19:11.579 --> 02:19:14.379
and cool and weird and there's drugs and there's

02:19:14.379 --> 02:19:17.340
sex and there's I mean not a lot of sex but there's

02:19:17.340 --> 02:19:19.399
boobs at least for a second so it's very adult

02:19:20.159 --> 02:19:22.819
And like having that be a cartoon at the same

02:19:22.819 --> 02:19:25.520
time, that on its own is enough. It's like just

02:19:25.520 --> 02:19:28.799
just like chocolate and salt or something like

02:19:28.799 --> 02:19:30.360
a chocolate covered pretzel, chocolatey thing

02:19:30.360 --> 02:19:32.700
and salty thing together. That's a perfect combination.

02:19:32.719 --> 02:19:36.219
That's all you need. That itself is enough to

02:19:36.219 --> 02:19:38.959
get through. It's just a vibe. It's just a flavor.

02:19:39.159 --> 02:19:42.840
And that's it. But like, I think that's. That's

02:19:42.840 --> 02:19:45.139
like a failing of the movie. You know what I

02:19:45.139 --> 02:19:47.280
mean? It's like what we're talking about is like

02:19:47.280 --> 02:19:50.879
it's a mistranslation that like creates this

02:19:50.879 --> 02:19:54.780
like very weird vibe that like I kind of now

02:19:54.780 --> 02:19:56.899
watching it think is very cool. Like I think

02:19:56.899 --> 02:19:58.479
that watching this movie where it's like, oh,

02:19:58.500 --> 02:19:59.899
we don't have any context. Oh, there's these

02:19:59.899 --> 02:20:02.399
motorcycles and whatever. And every single scene

02:20:02.399 --> 02:20:04.459
is just another spectacle of some sort of crazy

02:20:04.459 --> 02:20:08.989
whatever. I totally understand people finding

02:20:08.989 --> 02:20:12.229
this, like, impossible to watch and, like, totally

02:20:12.229 --> 02:20:15.909
unsatisfying and, like, not even fun. Like, I

02:20:15.909 --> 02:20:18.649
could see, like. Did you, like, give her any,

02:20:18.690 --> 02:20:20.270
did you, like, bribe her at all? No, I just,

02:20:20.610 --> 02:20:22.569
I was, like, because I was, like, I want to see

02:20:22.569 --> 02:20:26.870
how much this pisses her off, basically. So after

02:20:26.870 --> 02:20:29.590
I read the books, I, like, while I was reading

02:20:29.590 --> 02:20:31.190
them, I was, you know, telling my wife about

02:20:31.190 --> 02:20:33.709
them, you know, because I'm a codependent person.

02:20:34.010 --> 02:20:37.649
And afterwards. you know i was like hey do you

02:20:37.649 --> 02:20:38.909
want to watch do you want to watch the movie

02:20:38.909 --> 02:20:42.149
with me and you know so she knows like okay so

02:20:42.149 --> 02:20:45.409
this kid's gonna show up at some point and uh

02:20:45.409 --> 02:20:48.790
shit's gonna happen and like we're watching the

02:20:48.790 --> 02:20:51.670
movie and we're enjoying it and i went to like

02:20:51.670 --> 02:20:54.969
pause it at one point to like pee and it's like

02:20:54.969 --> 02:20:56.950
an hour and 20 minutes in and they're like in

02:20:56.950 --> 02:21:00.750
the sewer and i'm like man this is not like we're

02:21:00.750 --> 02:21:03.729
not i know we're not going because all mike would

02:21:03.729 --> 02:21:06.079
say is just like I can't wait for you to watch

02:21:06.079 --> 02:21:09.340
it. I can't wait for you. I was like, so Akira

02:21:09.340 --> 02:21:10.600
is going to be different in the movie, right,

02:21:10.680 --> 02:21:14.459
Mike? And he's like, just watch it. And then

02:21:14.459 --> 02:21:17.799
when you're expecting a little boy who like is

02:21:17.799 --> 02:21:20.879
going to like wreak a little bit of havoc and

02:21:20.879 --> 02:21:24.479
then like they open, they open the chest and

02:21:24.479 --> 02:21:30.340
it is pieces of what was once Akira. My wife,

02:21:30.360 --> 02:21:32.260
I think, was actually pissed. Like, I think she

02:21:32.260 --> 02:21:34.620
was actually mad. Like, I think she was actually

02:21:34.620 --> 02:21:37.319
like, I want, I want the kid I was promised.

02:21:37.639 --> 02:21:41.079
I want there to have been like a big bad weapon

02:21:41.079 --> 02:21:44.459
here. Like, and I wasn't, I wasn't really, but

02:21:44.459 --> 02:21:47.879
I just, if you had read the books and gotten

02:21:47.879 --> 02:21:53.200
to even that point, like you're way past where

02:21:53.200 --> 02:21:57.579
you would have met Akira, but like way past even

02:21:57.579 --> 02:22:01.110
when like Tokyo would have been. effectively

02:22:01.110 --> 02:22:04.649
bombed the second time and you don't get any

02:22:04.649 --> 02:22:07.329
of that in the film like it's all this big build

02:22:07.329 --> 02:22:10.329
up to yeah a chest opening and it's just like

02:22:10.329 --> 02:22:13.670
there's hey you know that kid you like well here

02:22:13.670 --> 02:22:17.430
he is it was so I don't know I wasn't disappointed

02:22:17.430 --> 02:22:21.909
by it but my wife found it like totally confusing

02:22:21.909 --> 02:22:24.729
and I mean probably because I was not a very

02:22:24.729 --> 02:22:27.729
good interpreter but like also because I was

02:22:27.729 --> 02:22:31.659
like I can't wait to see the kid And he just,

02:22:31.780 --> 02:22:35.500
we didn't get them. Yeah. I think that's, I think

02:22:35.500 --> 02:22:36.840
that's part of the thing that's awesome too,

02:22:36.899 --> 02:22:39.500
is like, yeah, the Western audiences don't get

02:22:39.500 --> 02:22:43.239
that. There's no subversion there of the thing

02:22:43.239 --> 02:22:46.239
because it's just called Akira. We don't know

02:22:46.239 --> 02:22:48.079
what Akira is. And then in the end, it turns

02:22:48.079 --> 02:22:50.379
out to be nothing kind of thing. But it's like,

02:22:50.379 --> 02:22:52.760
dude, the whole thing is like, this is. the book

02:22:52.760 --> 02:22:55.059
Akira about this character Akira and whatever.

02:22:55.200 --> 02:22:57.459
And this is the movie of Akira where there's

02:22:57.459 --> 02:23:00.819
no Akira. Like it is subverting the whole thing

02:23:00.819 --> 02:23:03.479
and giving you like, it's an anti -climax. It's

02:23:03.479 --> 02:23:05.819
like a, it's, it's taking the thing and changing

02:23:05.819 --> 02:23:08.040
it completely into like, we're not going to give

02:23:08.040 --> 02:23:10.700
you the thing that you want. And I think that

02:23:10.700 --> 02:23:11.840
what's interesting is that in the end, it doesn't

02:23:11.840 --> 02:23:13.940
really change anything. Like it does still give

02:23:13.940 --> 02:23:16.700
you the thing. Like he does eventually reset

02:23:16.700 --> 02:23:18.620
everything in the spiritual. He doesn't come

02:23:18.620 --> 02:23:20.899
to the real realm necessarily, but he's there.

02:23:21.559 --> 02:23:22.959
You know, when they're praying at the altar,

02:23:23.040 --> 02:23:27.159
he appears. Yeah, yeah. But like, and yeah, you

02:23:27.159 --> 02:23:29.059
don't really need Akira in the movie version

02:23:29.059 --> 02:23:30.260
because like, what are you just going to have?

02:23:30.299 --> 02:23:33.899
Yeah, he could be a bunch of things in tubes

02:23:33.899 --> 02:23:36.540
or he could be a silent child and it doesn't

02:23:36.540 --> 02:23:39.319
really make any difference. But it is just this

02:23:39.319 --> 02:23:41.340
big build up to this moment that then doesn't

02:23:41.340 --> 02:23:43.440
do anything. I don't know. I think like there

02:23:43.440 --> 02:23:45.879
is a level of menace to the kid, right? You know,

02:23:45.879 --> 02:23:49.670
like. It's another Western trope, but he's like

02:23:49.670 --> 02:23:51.770
a Damien. He's an evil kid. Yeah, yeah. He's

02:23:51.770 --> 02:23:54.750
sitting on a throne. He can't control his emotions

02:23:54.750 --> 02:23:57.469
and his petulance means punishment for his enemies.

02:23:57.649 --> 02:24:01.809
And I think when you're expecting that and what

02:24:01.809 --> 02:24:07.729
you get instead is a troll job. There's no God.

02:24:07.989 --> 02:24:10.729
It is. Yeah. Yes. It is. I think you're trying

02:24:10.729 --> 02:24:13.930
to say something, right? Like as the author,

02:24:14.010 --> 02:24:17.479
you're kind of trying to say. I don't, I genuinely,

02:24:17.579 --> 02:24:19.760
I do not know, but you gotta be saying something.

02:24:20.219 --> 02:24:23.399
It's so funny because like when I, you know,

02:24:23.420 --> 02:24:25.639
initially saw the movie and that reveal happened,

02:24:25.739 --> 02:24:29.780
not reading the manga, I was like that fucking

02:24:29.780 --> 02:24:32.959
kicks ass. Yeah, no, totally. Like, I was just

02:24:32.959 --> 02:24:36.420
like, that is such a great choice. I love that.

02:24:37.100 --> 02:24:40.440
And then when I read the manga, I found Akira

02:24:40.440 --> 02:24:44.079
to be very superfluous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just

02:24:44.079 --> 02:24:47.479
kind of felt like he doesn't actually need to

02:24:47.479 --> 02:24:49.479
be. He just sits around. He doesn't do much.

02:24:50.319 --> 02:24:53.579
There is that menace. There is that cool vibe

02:24:53.579 --> 02:24:57.239
of just no one having any clue how to deal with

02:24:57.239 --> 02:25:00.360
him or how they should approach him or what he's

02:25:00.360 --> 02:25:02.379
capable of or what will trigger him or any of

02:25:02.379 --> 02:25:04.219
these things. Tetsuo is obviously the character

02:25:04.219 --> 02:25:06.989
that more people are afraid of. or whatever but

02:25:06.989 --> 02:25:10.950
like there is this like handling uh with kids

02:25:10.950 --> 02:25:13.709
gloves thing around akira he seems just like

02:25:13.709 --> 02:25:15.729
they can literally just like take akira by like

02:25:15.729 --> 02:25:17.889
the shirt and drag him wherever they want him

02:25:17.889 --> 02:25:21.209
to go yeah let's pick him up he's it's not really

02:25:21.209 --> 02:25:24.129
like he doesn't ever express malice he doesn't

02:25:24.129 --> 02:25:26.649
express any emotions at all really he doesn't

02:25:26.649 --> 02:25:29.010
hurt anybody or attack anybody for doing anything

02:25:29.010 --> 02:25:32.559
like yeah it's just like for tetsuo Except for

02:25:32.559 --> 02:25:35.420
Tetsuo. He attacks him mentally in like one or

02:25:35.420 --> 02:25:37.920
two scenes that are awesome in the manga. I love

02:25:37.920 --> 02:25:39.680
how Tetsuo just like starts to get weird and

02:25:39.680 --> 02:25:42.159
then all of a sudden he's just like experiencing

02:25:42.159 --> 02:25:44.319
his childhood and stuff. And it's like, wait,

02:25:44.440 --> 02:25:46.620
how did we get here? And then he's like, oh no,

02:25:46.780 --> 02:25:49.079
I was seeing into his soul or he was sawing into

02:25:49.079 --> 02:25:51.420
mine. And I think we get that. We get that a

02:25:51.420 --> 02:25:54.280
little bit in the movie when it's Akira. Akira

02:25:54.280 --> 02:25:56.520
like... He's like, I don't know who that is.

02:25:56.799 --> 02:25:59.079
Yeah, and when Tetsuo is wandering through the

02:25:59.079 --> 02:26:02.020
fucking city and they're saying like, akira did

02:26:02.020 --> 02:26:04.219
this thing and he it's him you know what i mean

02:26:04.219 --> 02:26:08.280
like the transference of akira to tetsuo is like

02:26:08.280 --> 02:26:10.979
yeah you know god akira they're waving the flag

02:26:10.979 --> 02:26:12.780
or whatever and they're talking about him yeah

02:26:12.780 --> 02:26:16.219
yeah it's funny because like i did see the movie

02:26:16.219 --> 02:26:17.979
first and yeah i did want to know your opinion

02:26:17.979 --> 02:26:20.639
josh and just like it's cool that you did enjoy

02:26:20.639 --> 02:26:24.420
that and i don't know like there are things missing

02:26:24.420 --> 02:26:27.420
from the movie obviously a lot of stuff but in

02:26:27.420 --> 02:26:29.659
the end i really feel like the movie does a great

02:26:29.659 --> 02:26:32.110
job at like telling the same story in a much

02:26:32.110 --> 02:26:35.350
more concise way and like crystallizing the themes

02:26:35.350 --> 02:26:38.370
like really really like hitting hard on the things

02:26:38.370 --> 02:26:41.110
that seem thematically important and it's like

02:26:41.110 --> 02:26:43.649
in an english translation it can come across

02:26:43.649 --> 02:26:46.450
as like clunky or whatever but when you understand

02:26:46.450 --> 02:26:49.530
that like it's the distillation of a 2000 page

02:26:49.530 --> 02:26:53.549
thing that is relatively philosophically complex

02:26:53.549 --> 02:26:57.750
you know and it does it like with unbelievable

02:26:57.750 --> 02:27:01.290
style in two hours and fucking 10 minutes. It's,

02:27:01.290 --> 02:27:04.569
that's pretty crazy. Yeah. And it, but it, but

02:27:04.569 --> 02:27:07.329
it actually does it like it actually does capture

02:27:07.329 --> 02:27:10.329
all of that. So it doesn't like, even though

02:27:10.329 --> 02:27:12.530
it's adapting it weirdly, it's, it does it in

02:27:12.530 --> 02:27:14.790
a way that eliminates so many things that just

02:27:14.790 --> 02:27:17.090
like don't need to be there at all to make the

02:27:17.090 --> 02:27:19.290
statement that it's making. But I do think that

02:27:19.290 --> 02:27:22.549
the big sort of missing part from the manga to

02:27:22.549 --> 02:27:25.670
the movie is basically the cults and the religion

02:27:25.670 --> 02:27:27.649
sort of aspect of the whole thing. I guess there's

02:27:27.649 --> 02:27:29.129
more of the Esper stuff or whatever, but like

02:27:29.129 --> 02:27:30.469
the cults and religion stuff. Yeah, it's more

02:27:30.469 --> 02:27:33.430
of the culture, religion, and mythological and

02:27:33.430 --> 02:27:36.850
sociopolitical stuff. I mean, well, this is the

02:27:36.850 --> 02:27:40.750
thing. Josh, watching the movie, I'm sure you

02:27:40.750 --> 02:27:43.809
didn't feel incredibly lost and confused because

02:27:43.809 --> 02:27:46.870
the book does a really great job at explaining

02:27:46.870 --> 02:27:50.120
the world. And all the different factions and

02:27:50.120 --> 02:27:53.280
all the various relationships and all this kind

02:27:53.280 --> 02:27:55.680
of stuff that like it imprints onto the movie

02:27:55.680 --> 02:27:58.760
in a very like one -to -one way. Yeah. And so

02:27:58.760 --> 02:28:01.059
you don't need to know who these guys are when

02:28:01.059 --> 02:28:03.159
they're on the, you know, when they're fighting

02:28:03.159 --> 02:28:05.540
a bunch of guys in clown costumes for no reason.

02:28:06.260 --> 02:28:07.840
It's like all of a sudden there's a guy who's

02:28:07.840 --> 02:28:09.540
dressed like a clown that they're fighting. It's

02:28:09.540 --> 02:28:11.040
like, that's just normal in this world. It's

02:28:11.040 --> 02:28:14.420
like, what? No. What? Why? And I mean, the manga

02:28:14.420 --> 02:28:16.700
essentially tells its own story twice, right?

02:28:16.760 --> 02:28:20.479
Like it, You get an assassinated child that leads

02:28:20.479 --> 02:28:24.379
to the grief of the world effectively. And then

02:28:24.379 --> 02:28:26.360
you get an assassinated child that leads to the

02:28:26.360 --> 02:28:29.739
grief of the world again. And it's all like what

02:28:29.739 --> 02:28:33.299
we're doing in the meantime is stasis, not trying

02:28:33.299 --> 02:28:36.299
to solve a problem, trying to explain to ourselves

02:28:36.299 --> 02:28:39.799
what we're going through. And I think that's

02:28:39.799 --> 02:28:41.579
the thing that we were talking about earlier.

02:28:41.659 --> 02:28:45.879
The beauty of the ending is that in both the

02:28:45.879 --> 02:28:48.819
manga and the movie, they say like everyone's

02:28:48.819 --> 02:28:51.540
gone. And it's like, what, what they're saying

02:28:51.540 --> 02:28:54.079
there is like the cycle doesn't repeat anymore.

02:28:54.180 --> 02:28:56.579
Like there's a little hint that maybe it will

02:28:56.579 --> 02:29:00.260
again, but like for the first time, since we've.

02:29:00.649 --> 02:29:02.469
Picked up this story. Like. There's at least

02:29:02.469 --> 02:29:05.010
a moment of respite. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's

02:29:05.010 --> 02:29:07.229
this. There's the. Like. Especially the. The

02:29:07.229 --> 02:29:09.389
manga's ending man. Just like that moment. Just

02:29:09.389 --> 02:29:11.850
like. That they have this new ordinary world.

02:29:12.030 --> 02:29:14.190
It's just like. They at least have hope. Yeah.

02:29:14.229 --> 02:29:17.010
Yes. For now. Like for today even. Like. The

02:29:17.010 --> 02:29:19.209
UN's gonna come back. Like. Yeah. Like the colonel's

02:29:19.209 --> 02:29:21.209
like. I can't fight anymore. Because I know I

02:29:21.209 --> 02:29:23.590
will lose. But like. You guys have fight. Continue

02:29:23.590 --> 02:29:26.409
to believe. It's like. That's so. Yeah. That's

02:29:26.409 --> 02:29:28.270
so like. A generation talking to the next generation.

02:29:28.549 --> 02:29:33.360
Yes. It is. It's the best. The impression I get

02:29:33.360 --> 02:29:35.559
is that things do just continue and go through

02:29:35.559 --> 02:29:40.079
cycles. I think right now there's this new rebellion

02:29:40.079 --> 02:29:43.540
and this new movement to create a new world and

02:29:43.540 --> 02:29:44.860
all that kind of stuff, but then that becomes

02:29:44.860 --> 02:29:49.280
the establishment. I mean, even what Nezu is

02:29:49.280 --> 02:29:52.260
describing to Ryu in the movie when they're walking

02:29:52.260 --> 02:29:55.760
on the pathway and he's talking about Neo -Tokyo

02:29:55.760 --> 02:29:58.540
being an overripe fruit. or whatever, and the

02:29:58.540 --> 02:30:01.540
seeds will fall and create a new beginning or

02:30:01.540 --> 02:30:04.379
whatever. And that just feels so Japanese, too,

02:30:04.479 --> 02:30:06.319
and so psychedelic, just the idea that everything

02:30:06.319 --> 02:30:08.879
moves in cycles and seasons, that there's death

02:30:08.879 --> 02:30:12.100
and rebirth and death and rebirth again, and

02:30:12.100 --> 02:30:15.180
that there are these evolutions that happen,

02:30:15.280 --> 02:30:18.159
but really, fundamentally, everything's the same

02:30:18.159 --> 02:30:21.540
as it's always been through all time. It just

02:30:21.540 --> 02:30:24.760
kind of takes on new shapes and complexities.

02:30:25.520 --> 02:30:28.399
Like the amoeba. I guess I would say, like, the

02:30:28.399 --> 02:30:34.180
only thing is, like, at least in the book, Tetsuo

02:30:34.180 --> 02:30:37.319
fucking explodes all of the nuclear weapons.

02:30:37.500 --> 02:30:39.319
Remember, he sets off, like, all the nuclear

02:30:39.319 --> 02:30:41.739
weapons worldwide. And it's, like, the idea that,

02:30:41.760 --> 02:30:46.200
like, well, with them gone and all the weapons

02:30:46.200 --> 02:30:48.579
gone, it's like, we'll be okay for now. But,

02:30:48.639 --> 02:30:51.260
like, of course, we will build new weapons. You

02:30:51.260 --> 02:30:53.920
know what I mean? Like, that will happen. Yeah.

02:30:54.399 --> 02:30:55.959
Especially now that there's this big, like, they

02:30:55.959 --> 02:30:58.639
come in and try to, like, they try to be the

02:30:58.639 --> 02:31:00.420
cleanup crew, but then these punks show up and

02:31:00.420 --> 02:31:01.920
they're like, fuck off. And they're like, you

02:31:01.920 --> 02:31:03.979
think they're really going to, like, not come

02:31:03.979 --> 02:31:10.520
back? Exactly. It's just like, nah, dude, like,

02:31:10.579 --> 02:31:12.680
we're the bigger nation state. We're the bigger

02:31:12.680 --> 02:31:15.420
power. Like, they're not going to, like, get

02:31:15.420 --> 02:31:18.139
their scrappy shit together to build new nuclear

02:31:18.139 --> 02:31:21.079
bombs or anything anytime soon. It's the same

02:31:21.079 --> 02:31:23.700
thing that kind of is doing in the opening scene.

02:31:24.120 --> 02:31:27.340
When the fucking, you know, the cops, they smash

02:31:27.340 --> 02:31:28.879
his head down on the floor and he's like, fuck

02:31:28.879 --> 02:31:30.940
you, man. I'm just looking at my friend, whatever.

02:31:31.040 --> 02:31:33.760
It's like, you know. And he does it two scenes

02:31:33.760 --> 02:31:35.959
later, right? After the dude's like, discipline,

02:31:36.579 --> 02:31:40.459
discipline. He's like, fuck you, man. And it's

02:31:40.459 --> 02:31:42.319
like, yeah, he's just doing the same thing in

02:31:42.319 --> 02:31:45.319
the end. He's morally pure. And in the end, yeah,

02:31:45.360 --> 02:31:47.760
he's just still like, yeah, fuck the UN too,

02:31:47.879 --> 02:31:50.680
man. He's like, I'm the only one, man. He's like,

02:31:50.700 --> 02:31:53.540
actually, like, and it's the best, man. He's

02:31:53.540 --> 02:31:55.899
such a punk rock. Yeah, he's a fucking punk.

02:31:56.379 --> 02:31:58.639
I mean, I said this in my Letterboxd review or

02:31:58.639 --> 02:32:00.620
whatever, but my favorite line from the movie,

02:32:00.760 --> 02:32:04.799
at least in the English translation, is, Hetsuo's

02:32:04.799 --> 02:32:06.139
our friend. If someone's going to kill him, it

02:32:06.139 --> 02:32:08.059
should be us. Yeah, hell yeah. It's just like,

02:32:08.079 --> 02:32:12.120
so fucking punk rock, dude. I love it. Also,

02:32:12.120 --> 02:32:14.600
I've said to Mike from the beginning, my favorite

02:32:14.600 --> 02:32:19.059
line in either the book or the movie is, in the

02:32:19.059 --> 02:32:23.469
very first book, when... Kaneda is trying to

02:32:23.469 --> 02:32:25.770
get to figure out what's in the pills that Tetsuo

02:32:25.770 --> 02:32:28.649
has. He goes to this woman at the infirmary that

02:32:28.649 --> 02:32:31.049
he's clearly hooked up with. And she says to

02:32:31.049 --> 02:32:34.510
him, by the way, I might be pregnant. And he

02:32:34.510 --> 02:32:38.430
says, great. Can I watch you have it? Yes. Can

02:32:38.430 --> 02:32:41.350
I watch you have it? And it's to me, it's just

02:32:41.350 --> 02:32:45.030
like it is. It's Kaneda's great intellectual

02:32:45.030 --> 02:32:50.260
generosity and curiosity. But also his swashbuckling

02:32:50.260 --> 02:32:53.600
nature just totally crystals out. He's not saying,

02:32:53.719 --> 02:32:55.680
fuck you, get rid of it. No. He's saying like,

02:32:55.780 --> 02:32:57.799
oh, you're free. I'm free. We're all free. That's

02:32:57.799 --> 02:33:00.760
cool. Let me watch. Yeah, exactly. That's awesome.

02:33:01.040 --> 02:33:03.159
I'm great. You're having fun. That sounds great

02:33:03.159 --> 02:33:08.840
to me. May I watch? I love the noble jock. Yes.

02:33:08.840 --> 02:33:11.860
Yeah, me too. I love that character. Also, did

02:33:11.860 --> 02:33:14.319
you guys know that, like, there were motorcycle

02:33:14.319 --> 02:33:17.000
gangs, like, in vogue from the 50s to, like,

02:33:17.020 --> 02:33:19.819
the 80s in Japan? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were

02:33:19.819 --> 02:33:22.700
called the Bosuzoku. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't

02:33:22.700 --> 02:33:24.440
know that. Yeah, it's a whole thing. Yeah. Bosuzoku.

02:33:24.540 --> 02:33:29.399
Yeah. That's part of the imported Western shit

02:33:29.399 --> 02:33:33.940
with, you know, bicycle gangs and... Easy rider,

02:33:34.100 --> 02:33:37.440
man. Levi's jeans and... The Hell's Angels. Capitalism.

02:33:38.159 --> 02:33:42.739
Yeah. It's just so cool to be Western. It is

02:33:42.739 --> 02:33:44.840
so cool. The Hells Angels would have been cooler

02:33:44.840 --> 02:33:46.500
if they were all 15 -year -olds, too, though.

02:33:46.780 --> 02:33:53.920
That's true. Yeah, the youthful energy is a...

02:33:53.920 --> 02:33:56.340
It's a big part of the statement, I think, there,

02:33:56.379 --> 02:33:58.559
too. Yeah, it's a big part of the statement is

02:33:58.559 --> 02:34:02.139
youthful, rebellious energy. Yep. that can actually

02:34:02.139 --> 02:34:05.639
create change and disruption to the status quo.

02:34:05.639 --> 02:34:07.200
Yeah, I mean, maybe not create change, but at

02:34:07.200 --> 02:34:09.399
least disruption. Well, that does create change,

02:34:09.479 --> 02:34:12.399
ultimately, just not necessarily... Like, Kaneda

02:34:12.399 --> 02:34:15.840
doesn't have a plan, you know? Like, Tetsuo doesn't

02:34:15.840 --> 02:34:17.020
have a plan, and I don't think Akira does either.

02:34:17.020 --> 02:34:18.680
Who else doesn't have a plan? It's like everybody

02:34:18.680 --> 02:34:20.360
else. I mean, I guess some people have plans,

02:34:20.540 --> 02:34:21.959
but they don't understand what the plans are

02:34:21.959 --> 02:34:24.459
even going towards anyway. The only person who's

02:34:24.459 --> 02:34:27.479
kind of got a plan is Lady Miyako, I guess, who

02:34:27.479 --> 02:34:30.620
can't do anything about the plan. Yeah, but I

02:34:30.620 --> 02:34:34.459
guess it's, like, I guess that energy to act

02:34:34.459 --> 02:34:39.620
and, like, just do things does change the world.

02:34:39.659 --> 02:34:41.959
And then everyone else just has to respond to

02:34:41.959 --> 02:34:44.659
that. You're either, like, acting and, like,

02:34:44.719 --> 02:34:46.979
affecting things or you're just responding to

02:34:46.979 --> 02:34:50.940
all that. Yeah. Isn't that kind of, like, the

02:34:50.940 --> 02:34:53.020
problem with someone like Lady Miyako is that,

02:34:53.059 --> 02:34:56.239
like, she is someone with immense knowledge but,

02:34:56.379 --> 02:34:58.260
like, the inability to do anything about it.

02:34:59.029 --> 02:35:01.229
Yeah, I think that's kind of you're talking about

02:35:01.229 --> 02:35:02.709
this a little bit in our Oppenheimer episode

02:35:02.709 --> 02:35:04.290
But I think that's kind of what happens at a

02:35:04.290 --> 02:35:06.799
certain point with immense knowledge You realize

02:35:06.799 --> 02:35:08.659
that you actually have no power and control.

02:35:09.040 --> 02:35:12.459
If you're completely ignorant of things, you

02:35:12.459 --> 02:35:14.420
have no power and control. But if you understand

02:35:14.420 --> 02:35:16.079
things completely, then you understand that you

02:35:16.079 --> 02:35:17.760
have no power and control. If you ever do the

02:35:17.760 --> 02:35:22.680
Obama movie, I have to come back for it. Leave

02:35:22.680 --> 02:35:25.260
the world behind the bad Julia Roberts, Ethan

02:35:25.260 --> 02:35:27.319
Hawke Obama movie. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Wait, it's

02:35:27.319 --> 02:35:30.340
the movie where Obama just says like... Oh, let

02:35:30.340 --> 02:35:32.440
me be clear. I don't know if I don't know if

02:35:32.440 --> 02:35:36.059
anyone's in charge. It is. It makes me so fucking

02:35:36.059 --> 02:35:39.040
mad, man. Like, it's like I could talk about

02:35:39.040 --> 02:35:41.819
it for three hours uninterrupted. It's oh, my

02:35:41.819 --> 02:35:45.819
God. It is. Yeah. Goddamn. But yeah, it's yeah,

02:35:46.000 --> 02:35:48.579
it's that kind of worldview writ large of like,

02:35:48.600 --> 02:35:51.620
yeah, the terrifying thing of like, oh, actually,

02:35:51.620 --> 02:35:53.680
maybe even the most powerful people are just

02:35:53.680 --> 02:35:56.760
like protecting. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I think they

02:35:56.760 --> 02:36:01.510
are, man. No, they definitely are. I think that's

02:36:01.510 --> 02:36:04.049
why the idea of conspiracy is also so popular

02:36:04.049 --> 02:36:05.950
in America, too, because I think we really want

02:36:05.950 --> 02:36:08.430
to believe in this individualist idea that people

02:36:08.430 --> 02:36:10.850
have control over their destinies. Yeah, we want

02:36:10.850 --> 02:36:13.350
to believe that expertise can cause consequences

02:36:13.350 --> 02:36:17.010
when it really can't. I mean, like, you just

02:36:17.010 --> 02:36:18.450
think about everything going on today with, like,

02:36:18.469 --> 02:36:21.030
AI and stuff. It's just, like, another part of

02:36:21.030 --> 02:36:23.510
the same story of people just doing a bunch of

02:36:23.510 --> 02:36:25.649
shit because they can and, like, really don't

02:36:25.649 --> 02:36:28.989
care about the consequences or what kind of future

02:36:28.989 --> 02:36:31.450
it'll actually bring. And they make all these

02:36:31.450 --> 02:36:33.469
promises about what kind of future it will bring,

02:36:33.530 --> 02:36:36.049
and then that just doesn't happen. You know,

02:36:36.149 --> 02:36:38.469
just, like, same shit again and again. Like,

02:36:38.489 --> 02:36:41.270
they literally have no crystal ball. They have

02:36:41.270 --> 02:36:44.260
no idea. Except that then maybe they think they

02:36:44.260 --> 02:36:45.780
can make money or something. I don't know. Like,

02:36:45.780 --> 02:36:48.739
I guess if it's just about like brass tacks and

02:36:48.739 --> 02:36:52.219
really basic mathematical equations, like if

02:36:52.219 --> 02:36:54.959
I do this, then a stock price goes up and I can

02:36:54.959 --> 02:36:57.979
cash out or whatever. But I just like, ultimately

02:36:57.979 --> 02:37:00.680
it's like, yeah, they have no fucking clue what's

02:37:00.680 --> 02:37:02.540
going to happen tomorrow. And like anything could

02:37:02.540 --> 02:37:05.440
happen that disrupts the plan and whatever. And

02:37:05.440 --> 02:37:07.059
they're just the scientists, man. They're the

02:37:07.059 --> 02:37:09.649
scientists in Akira. And, like, they're completely

02:37:09.649 --> 02:37:13.350
replaceable non -humans. Or they're the religious

02:37:13.350 --> 02:37:15.729
people. People that have an idea of what's coming,

02:37:15.809 --> 02:37:18.989
but an inability to change it. And it's, like...

02:37:18.989 --> 02:37:21.750
The second coming. It's, like, Lady Miyako has

02:37:21.750 --> 02:37:24.370
that, like, long speech to Tetsuo where she says,

02:37:24.450 --> 02:37:27.409
like, men can't see past their nose or whatever.

02:37:27.549 --> 02:37:29.889
And, like, she says to him, like, you don't understand,

02:37:30.069 --> 02:37:33.030
like, you have the ability with just your mind

02:37:33.030 --> 02:37:36.540
to, like... contain all of the power in the entire

02:37:36.540 --> 02:37:39.559
world but then she says effectively like but

02:37:39.559 --> 02:37:41.819
you have no idea how to do it you don't have

02:37:41.819 --> 02:37:44.459
the imagination to unlock it and it's like the

02:37:44.459 --> 02:37:46.799
wildest thing in the world is that like she's

02:37:46.799 --> 02:37:49.680
the one saying that right because like she knows

02:37:49.680 --> 02:37:54.940
she is all potential and like tetsuo is three

02:37:54.940 --> 02:37:59.239
percent action and 97 potential and she can see

02:37:59.239 --> 02:38:02.129
that too and it's like That's what happens when

02:38:02.129 --> 02:38:04.409
you think, you know, you think about building

02:38:04.409 --> 02:38:07.069
something, but then you never build it. That

02:38:07.069 --> 02:38:09.370
gets back to the whole amoeba concept, too. Like

02:38:09.370 --> 02:38:15.049
an amoeba is like like point zero zero zero zero

02:38:15.049 --> 02:38:18.549
three percent action. And like the other all

02:38:18.549 --> 02:38:20.309
the rest of its potential, like the potential

02:38:20.309 --> 02:38:24.110
of what it could evolve to and what the future

02:38:24.110 --> 02:38:27.450
could bring. Yes. The potential of humanity and

02:38:27.450 --> 02:38:31.110
what they could do. like is vastly outnumbered

02:38:31.110 --> 02:38:33.170
as the actual actions they can take today yep

02:38:33.170 --> 02:38:35.270
and maybe that's just like always how it is or

02:38:35.270 --> 02:38:37.569
something but unless there is some kind of breaking

02:38:37.569 --> 02:38:41.030
point where like action does come up against

02:38:41.030 --> 02:38:43.270
potential and there is like no potential left

02:38:43.270 --> 02:38:45.409
and everything has to like go backwards or just

02:38:45.409 --> 02:38:47.409
like reset or something i just think like with

02:38:47.409 --> 02:38:50.489
our appetite for self -destruction like we will

02:38:50.489 --> 02:38:52.969
find a way to destroy ourselves before we find

02:38:52.969 --> 02:38:55.340
a time to like coalesce into something that really

02:38:55.340 --> 02:38:57.860
works you know like sure it's just so much easier

02:38:57.860 --> 02:39:01.260
to kill yourself I mean yeah like there does

02:39:01.260 --> 02:39:04.799
seem to be a historical like stuff in history

02:39:04.799 --> 02:39:07.520
to back that up maybe not history but like biology

02:39:07.520 --> 02:39:10.920
and I guess you couldn't call it history talking

02:39:10.920 --> 02:39:13.600
about the great extinctions or whatever but just

02:39:13.600 --> 02:39:15.920
like all these moments in time where the earth

02:39:15.920 --> 02:39:18.790
has reset and like things that have happened

02:39:18.790 --> 02:39:21.610
that have, like, really set back all the evolutionary

02:39:21.610 --> 02:39:24.250
timelines that have been going on for, like,

02:39:24.250 --> 02:39:27.309
thousands or millions of years. Yeah, it isn't

02:39:27.309 --> 02:39:29.549
linear. It's not like everything just evolves

02:39:29.549 --> 02:39:33.149
and evolves and evolves and, like, reaches its

02:39:33.149 --> 02:39:36.610
final potential. It always gets pushed back somehow

02:39:36.610 --> 02:39:40.809
by something. Exactly. It's always in, you know,

02:39:40.809 --> 02:39:44.069
transition. Yeah, it's like, you know. Yeah,

02:39:44.149 --> 02:39:47.090
it's always in transition. Like a late -stage

02:39:47.090 --> 02:39:49.569
tetsuo. Fits and starts. We'll never be the perfect

02:39:49.569 --> 02:39:54.469
organism. We'll never be the predator. We'll

02:39:54.469 --> 02:39:58.549
never be the predator. The perfect organism?

02:39:58.750 --> 02:40:01.129
We're going predator over alien? Absolutely.

02:40:01.430 --> 02:40:12.129
Whoever wins, we lose. Whoever wins, we lose.

02:40:12.729 --> 02:40:15.760
Well, on that note... You say that's that, Mattress

02:40:15.760 --> 02:40:17.840
Man? I'd say that's that.