WEBVTT 00:00:03.020 --> 00:00:05.599 See, I believe that all the mysteries of the 00:00:05.599 --> 00:00:07.080 universe, all the answers to life's questions 00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:08.000 can be found in a Spielberg film. I've been afraid for 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:09.720 all of my life. Why doesn’t somebody just shoot 00:00:09.720 --> 00:00:11.660 me in the head? Right up until the day I knew 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:14.679 my life was ending. You look bad. No, man. You 00:00:14.679 --> 00:00:17.620 smell bad. I'm pretty fucking far from Ok. Really, I 00:00:17.620 --> 00:00:19.320 feel like I'm sharing a very- Look at my shit. 00:00:19.440 --> 00:00:21.339 I had an affair.- Precious moment with you. There 00:00:21.339 --> 00:00:24.059 are no nations. There are no peoples. Are you threatening 00:00:24.059 --> 00:00:26.420 me, dick? You don't approve. Fake. Well, too 00:00:26.420 --> 00:00:28.699 bad. Totally fake. Did it seem fake? You look 00:00:28.699 --> 00:00:30.570 like a damn crackhead. When my best friend was 00:00:30.570 --> 00:00:32.850 bitten in half in front of me? I found this cover story personally embarrassing 00:00:32.850 --> 00:00:36.409 myself. Plenty of sausage and pepperonis. Everything but the little fishies. All 00:00:36.409 --> 00:00:39.289 right, well, here we are. Welcome to season two 00:00:39.289 --> 00:00:42.210 of Everything But The Little Fishies. Season 00:00:42.210 --> 00:00:45.810 two. Welcome. Hell yeah. I'm Evan. And I'm Mike. 00:00:46.049 --> 00:00:49.289 And today we're talking about Ready Player One 00:00:49.289 --> 00:00:56.509 from 2018 and The Fablemans from 2022. Before 00:00:56.509 --> 00:00:58.909 we get started, just some quick programming notes. 00:01:00.049 --> 00:01:03.049 Every once in a while on this show, we will have 00:01:03.049 --> 00:01:06.870 a guest on, and sometimes those guests call us 00:01:06.870 --> 00:01:09.390 by different names. I will sometimes be called 00:01:09.390 --> 00:01:12.349 Tony, and Mike will sometimes be called Lunchbox 00:01:12.349 --> 00:01:14.930 or Lunchie. Honestly, I call him Lunchie quite 00:01:14.930 --> 00:01:16.790 frequently on this show, too, even though I should 00:01:16.790 --> 00:01:19.719 be calling him Mike. And we didn't ask for this. 00:01:19.819 --> 00:01:23.640 It's not really, it wasn't a plan. But, you know, 00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:26.680 sometimes, like our characters that exist in 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:30.480 the Oasis, you have different identities in different 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:33.439 places in different times. And sometimes they 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:35.400 stick with you, and they cross over, and there's 00:01:35.400 --> 00:01:37.799 not really too much you can do about it. You 00:01:37.799 --> 00:01:40.120 try to leave an old identity behind, and it sticks 00:01:40.120 --> 00:01:42.500 around. Or you try to invent a new one, and whatever. 00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:46.049 You know how it goes. Here we are, just so no 00:01:46.049 --> 00:01:49.450 one gets confused moving forward. Totally, totally. 00:01:49.930 --> 00:01:52.450 So you want to talk about Ready Player One? Yeah, 00:01:52.450 --> 00:01:54.489 yeah, but I'd also like to further address some 00:01:54.489 --> 00:01:58.310 of the criticism of Season 1. You know what I 00:01:58.310 --> 00:02:02.269 mean? The huge amount of user feedback we've 00:02:02.269 --> 00:02:04.489 gotten, or listener feedback we've gotten. I'd 00:02:04.489 --> 00:02:06.989 kind of like to respond to some of it. Well, 00:02:07.030 --> 00:02:09.870 basically, I was having a conversation with a 00:02:09.870 --> 00:02:13.639 friend recently about a theory I have. that we're 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:15.460 going to get into later in this season about 00:02:15.460 --> 00:02:18.400 another Spielberg movie, another Spielberg sort 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:20.879 of theory. And it kind of aligned with what a 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:23.900 lot of people had been saying about our Willy 00:02:23.900 --> 00:02:26.080 Wonka and Tinder's List episode, where my friend 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:27.539 was kind of like, well, this sounds like a conspiracy 00:02:27.539 --> 00:02:32.340 theory. And I didn't really know how to respond 00:02:32.340 --> 00:02:33.539 at the time. But thinking about it later, I was 00:02:33.539 --> 00:02:36.400 just kind of like, well, dude, what is a movie 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:38.659 other than like a conspiracy to hide the hand 00:02:38.659 --> 00:02:41.590 that is controlling the whole conspiracy? You 00:02:41.590 --> 00:02:45.189 know what I mean? In politics, like maybe thinking 00:02:45.189 --> 00:02:47.250 about things in conspiracy theory terms is not 00:02:47.250 --> 00:02:49.669 like the most intelligent way to go about things. 00:02:50.150 --> 00:02:53.629 It may be, but it may not be. But in movies, 00:02:53.669 --> 00:02:55.750 I think that thinking about it as a conspiracy 00:02:55.750 --> 00:02:58.110 and having a conspiracy theory about it is kind 00:02:58.110 --> 00:03:01.520 of like the way to kind of think about. a lot 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:04.379 of film analysis. Um, and I think that really 00:03:04.379 --> 00:03:05.979 ties in with ready player one. I think ready 00:03:05.979 --> 00:03:08.159 player one's a movie that a lot of people saw 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:11.080 and got like very little out of. And it's kind 00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:12.879 of, you know, it's not one of the most respected 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:15.699 of Spielberg sort of masterpiece works, you know 00:03:15.699 --> 00:03:18.020 what I mean? Um, it kind of came and went. And 00:03:18.020 --> 00:03:19.979 even like when I heard about it in the first 00:03:19.979 --> 00:03:22.620 place, I kind of had no interest in sort of seeing 00:03:22.620 --> 00:03:25.560 it. Um, it didn't sound like a project that was, 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:28.979 you know, gonna I don't know. It felt like it 00:03:28.979 --> 00:03:30.879 was cashing in on a certain thing that was going 00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:34.460 on at the time. And it didn't feel like, oh, 00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:36.259 this is an artist going about something. It felt 00:03:36.259 --> 00:03:39.520 like some sort of capitalist cash -in sort of 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:41.840 thing. And when I finally saw the movie, I think 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:45.280 I was wrong about that. But that is totally the 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:47.460 impression that the whole sort of culture still 00:03:47.460 --> 00:03:49.819 has about Ready Player One. It's just sort of 00:03:49.819 --> 00:03:52.860 like, oh, it was a fun Spielberg cash -in bullshit 00:03:52.860 --> 00:03:57.770 thing. And I think that's not correct. I mean, 00:03:57.789 --> 00:04:00.110 that was my impression when I saw it. You saw 00:04:00.110 --> 00:04:02.569 it and were like, oh, I was wrong. Because we 00:04:02.569 --> 00:04:05.030 watched it together, and I had kind of built 00:04:05.030 --> 00:04:06.629 up this impression about it, which was like, 00:04:06.729 --> 00:04:08.610 yeah, I mean, I really want to watch it again. 00:04:08.669 --> 00:04:10.009 I thought there was a lot that was good about 00:04:10.009 --> 00:04:12.949 it, but it's also kind of just like this annoying 00:04:12.949 --> 00:04:17.829 modern IP mashup thing. Right. I remember initially 00:04:17.829 --> 00:04:20.089 seeing it in theaters and being pretty underwhelmed, 00:04:20.089 --> 00:04:22.589 even though I really love, like, I am always 00:04:22.589 --> 00:04:25.709 a big fan of Spielberg's camera work, his... 00:04:26.540 --> 00:04:28.620 directorial abilities. I think like he always 00:04:28.620 --> 00:04:33.639 creates a ride, like a really exciting aesthetic 00:04:33.639 --> 00:04:38.660 experience that is almost, he's so good at doing 00:04:38.660 --> 00:04:41.379 what he does that you don't notice how well made 00:04:41.379 --> 00:04:43.519 the movie is unless you really pay attention. 00:04:43.899 --> 00:04:46.379 Exactly. Exactly. And that I think is part of 00:04:46.379 --> 00:04:47.899 the thing where I'm talking about the conspiracy 00:04:47.899 --> 00:04:50.360 to hide the hand that is controlling everything. 00:04:50.540 --> 00:04:52.560 You know what I mean? In a Spielberg movie, I 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:55.629 think that that hand is so hidden. uh, that people 00:04:55.629 --> 00:04:58.209 just assume there's nothing going on sort of 00:04:58.209 --> 00:05:00.310 beneath the surface. And I was guilty of that 00:05:00.310 --> 00:05:03.329 for many years with Spielberg, but yeah, around 00:05:03.329 --> 00:05:04.850 the time that you watched this movie, I had gone 00:05:04.850 --> 00:05:07.370 back and rewatched all of Spielberg's earlier 00:05:07.370 --> 00:05:09.310 movies. And that kind of was like, dude, he's 00:05:09.310 --> 00:05:11.370 doing a lot more here than he's getting credit 00:05:11.370 --> 00:05:13.629 for. Like all these movies are a lot more interesting 00:05:13.629 --> 00:05:17.600 than the culture had like. the way the culture 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:20.019 sees this director is kind of somebody who just 00:05:20.019 --> 00:05:22.199 makes spectacles for children and their fun, 00:05:22.220 --> 00:05:25.199 you know, fairy tales or whatever. Um, but that's 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:27.019 kind of, you know, there's, there's no depth 00:05:27.019 --> 00:05:28.259 to it. People don't think about it the way they 00:05:28.259 --> 00:05:31.040 think about Tarkovsky or, you know, Kubrick or, 00:05:31.079 --> 00:05:33.920 you know, these intellectual directors. Yeah. 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:36.240 But after, after going back and sort of watching 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:38.779 all of these again, I sort of was like, no, no, 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:40.959 no, there absolutely is that intellectual director 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:44.519 going on there. It's just like very hard to think 00:05:44.519 --> 00:05:47.939 about that while you're being, seduced by giant 00:05:47.939 --> 00:05:51.839 dinosaurs and all of the fun that's in Spielberg's 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:55.519 movies. And especially in Ready Player One, its 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:57.920 pretensions are incredibly distracting because 00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:00.720 you're constantly like, that's from that movie, 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:02.839 that's from that movie. I mean, if you go to 00:06:02.839 --> 00:06:05.000 the IMDb trivia, for instance, the IMDb trivia 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:07.819 is almost exclusively about what this movie references. 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:11.360 Oh, there's like Ninja Turtles in that one part. 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:13.000 And there's like a Marvin the Martian there. 00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:15.680 And there's like, if you look closely, there's 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:19.060 the ship from 2001 A Space Odyssey in Ake's Garage 00:06:19.060 --> 00:06:21.720 or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And shit 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:23.100 like that, where it's just kind of like, I think 00:06:23.100 --> 00:06:26.600 because it is that sort of IP mashup thing, it 00:06:26.600 --> 00:06:30.160 becomes incredible. Like all these sort of familiar 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:33.339 things, these things that have been all these 00:06:33.339 --> 00:06:35.360 kind of super stimuluses to people for so many 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:38.019 years. all being crammed into this one movie. 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:39.899 It's so hard to watch the movie and not just 00:06:39.899 --> 00:06:42.120 be like, oh, that's the DeLorean. Oh, that's 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:44.480 Canada's bike from Akira. Oh, that's the T -Rex. 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:46.800 Oh, that's King Kong. And not even the ones they 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:49.240 mention, but the movie is just like absolutely 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:52.939 riddled in every single frame with like an insane 00:06:52.939 --> 00:06:56.870 amount of IPs and references. To the point where 00:06:56.870 --> 00:06:58.529 you're just like, how'd they even fucking get 00:06:58.529 --> 00:07:00.610 the rights to all this shit? Yeah, yeah. And 00:07:00.610 --> 00:07:04.110 I think there's a whole other podcast about the 00:07:04.110 --> 00:07:06.569 production of this movie and all of the deals 00:07:06.569 --> 00:07:08.930 that were made and why Blade Runner wouldn't 00:07:08.930 --> 00:07:11.569 work and all the things that they tried to do 00:07:11.569 --> 00:07:15.350 and couldn't get covered. Rush songs that the 00:07:15.350 --> 00:07:18.329 character has to play or whatever. Exactly, exactly. 00:07:18.709 --> 00:07:20.709 A lot of that I think is probably very interesting 00:07:20.709 --> 00:07:25.149 in a film business sort of way. But I think that's 00:07:25.149 --> 00:07:27.430 really like something for another podcast. That's 00:07:27.430 --> 00:07:29.750 something for a different type of podcast or 00:07:29.750 --> 00:07:31.910 whatever. And like for a lot of these trivia, 00:07:32.029 --> 00:07:34.829 like, you know, sections where this is fun, interesting 00:07:34.829 --> 00:07:37.410 information. But I think a lot of it's beside 00:07:37.410 --> 00:07:39.649 the point. Like, I don't think part of the point 00:07:39.649 --> 00:07:41.750 that Spielberg's making has to do with the things 00:07:41.750 --> 00:07:45.089 that he couldn't get or whatever. That's not 00:07:45.089 --> 00:07:48.910 the conversation being had here. Um, he's working 00:07:48.910 --> 00:07:51.949 with a format and then using what he kind of 00:07:51.949 --> 00:07:55.410 has at his disposal to say something, um, and 00:07:55.410 --> 00:07:57.269 talk about something. And in this case, I think 00:07:57.269 --> 00:07:59.110 that we've already talked about a lot of it so 00:07:59.110 --> 00:08:03.069 far as a lot of this has to do with IP, um, and 00:08:03.069 --> 00:08:06.750 this specific type of fan culture, um, that existed 00:08:06.750 --> 00:08:10.149 in like 2018 and really like 2012, um, when the, 00:08:10.170 --> 00:08:11.829 you know, strip script got started and stuff. 00:08:11.870 --> 00:08:14.009 And when the book was, when was the book written? 00:08:14.509 --> 00:08:16.730 Um, so yeah, the book, the book was 2011 and 00:08:16.730 --> 00:08:19.920 this was, 2011 was kind of the beginning of a 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:21.579 lot of this. Well, not really the beginning. 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:24.279 Like, you could go back, I don't know. You can 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:27.160 go back to Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back and 00:08:27.160 --> 00:08:30.579 the, you know, IP conversation in that movie. 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:33.940 In fact, like, he'd go all the way back to Spielberg 00:08:33.940 --> 00:08:37.080 when it comes to this type of blockbuster or 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:38.500 whatever. And I think that basically, like, Ready 00:08:38.500 --> 00:08:43.159 Player One does. But we'll get there. I think 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:46.059 that a lot of the point is that this book specifically 00:08:46.059 --> 00:08:49.419 in 2011 was this conversation about this specific 00:08:49.419 --> 00:08:52.340 nerd culture and this fandom and like this reference 00:08:52.340 --> 00:08:55.759 -y stuff. And I think that Spielberg adapting 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:58.639 that, like one would think the way that we did, 00:08:58.759 --> 00:09:00.779 like, oh, he's adapting like this dumb bullshit 00:09:00.779 --> 00:09:05.480 that's just like a love of reference culture. 00:09:05.700 --> 00:09:08.820 You know what I mean? I think that's not what 00:09:08.820 --> 00:09:10.500 it's doing. I think that that really is what 00:09:10.500 --> 00:09:14.419 the book is doing. But I think the movie goes 00:09:14.419 --> 00:09:17.419 very far out of its way to do things very differently 00:09:17.419 --> 00:09:20.460 from the book. And the things that it changes, 00:09:20.500 --> 00:09:22.340 I think, are like super informative as to like 00:09:22.340 --> 00:09:24.519 what Spielberg's actually trying to do here. 00:09:24.659 --> 00:09:26.179 And that's something very different than Ernest 00:09:26.179 --> 00:09:27.799 Cline, the guy who wrote the book, was trying 00:09:27.799 --> 00:09:30.899 to do. Ernest Cline's like a Spielberg fan and 00:09:30.899 --> 00:09:32.759 stuff. You know what I mean? He's like a modern 00:09:32.759 --> 00:09:35.840 nerd culture, you know, guy. And he wrote this 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:39.899 book. I mean, the book is basically a fantasy 00:09:39.899 --> 00:09:44.279 fulfillment for nerd culture, where in the book, 00:09:44.299 --> 00:09:48.480 Halliday is basically like a stand in for Ernest 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:53.100 Cline and Halliday's interests are Ernest Cline's 00:09:53.100 --> 00:09:56.279 interests and whatever. And you get to kind of 00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:01.720 see Ernest Cline like create this test wherein 00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:05.220 like. The way to win is to just like be Ernest 00:10:05.220 --> 00:10:07.320 Cline is just like to be a fan of all the things 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:09.580 he's a fan of and like know all about all of 00:10:09.580 --> 00:10:12.350 his favorite things or whatever. And that's what 00:10:12.350 --> 00:10:14.610 Halliday is doing, too, is he's like in the book, 00:10:14.649 --> 00:10:17.769 like the the whole egg hunt, the whole like trial, 00:10:17.929 --> 00:10:21.309 like the whole game is completely about Halliday 00:10:21.309 --> 00:10:24.049 finding somebody who like is good at the same 00:10:24.049 --> 00:10:25.909 video games that he's good at and likes the same 00:10:25.909 --> 00:10:27.830 music that he likes and watches the same movies 00:10:27.830 --> 00:10:30.009 that he watches. And not only that, but like 00:10:30.009 --> 00:10:32.590 has an encyclopedic knowledge of them. So like 00:10:32.590 --> 00:10:35.610 in the book, when, you know, they're testing 00:10:35.610 --> 00:10:38.129 parts of all his knowledge or whatever in one 00:10:38.129 --> 00:10:40.769 of the tests, like he has to go through and. 00:10:41.450 --> 00:10:45.610 literally play as all of the characters in Monty 00:10:45.610 --> 00:10:48.009 Python in the Holy Grail. And he has to say all 00:10:48.009 --> 00:10:49.649 of the lines that the characters say when they 00:10:49.649 --> 00:10:51.789 say it all in time and whatever. And you get 00:10:51.789 --> 00:10:53.769 points for saying all the right things and stuff. 00:10:53.970 --> 00:10:56.070 And that's how he wins a challenge is like by 00:10:56.070 --> 00:10:59.590 just knowing that. movie beginning to end the 00:10:59.590 --> 00:11:01.409 way that ernest klein does and loving it and 00:11:01.409 --> 00:11:04.129 whatever and so he's rewarded by holiday and 00:11:04.129 --> 00:11:07.029 like the people who read this book like loved 00:11:07.029 --> 00:11:08.710 that too because there are these nerds and they 00:11:08.710 --> 00:11:10.610 love these references and they get these references 00:11:10.610 --> 00:11:12.049 and they want to be rewarded for getting these 00:11:12.049 --> 00:11:14.129 references and it's a fantasy fulfillment for 00:11:14.129 --> 00:11:16.889 rewarding them for like artistically collecting 00:11:16.889 --> 00:11:20.350 data on these you know references and things 00:11:20.350 --> 00:11:22.629 to you know this culture that they're so interested 00:11:22.629 --> 00:11:25.250 in but i think that that's very different than 00:11:25.250 --> 00:11:27.620 what the movie does You know what I mean? Yeah. 00:11:27.700 --> 00:11:29.220 I mean, you could say that Halliday in the movie 00:11:29.220 --> 00:11:31.679 is a stand in for Spielberg. Exactly. Exactly. 00:11:32.519 --> 00:11:34.799 And I think that Spielberg is not somebody who 00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:37.720 just, you know, is an Ernest Cline who just like 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:39.980 has done a whole career based on just referencing 00:11:39.980 --> 00:11:42.100 other things. You know what I mean? Like Spielberg. 00:11:42.819 --> 00:11:45.200 he's, he's taking from all the greats and whatever. 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:47.440 I mean, he's like lots of his stuff is referencing 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:49.539 directly like other movies. Many times people 00:11:49.539 --> 00:11:51.240 don't notice that the way they do in the race 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:53.919 scene, he is drawing a direct connection between 00:11:53.919 --> 00:11:57.080 his Tyrannosaurus Rex and King Kong. Totally. 00:11:57.500 --> 00:11:59.600 And I think, I think like, I think it's really 00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:01.799 interesting that nobody could beat Kong there. 00:12:01.899 --> 00:12:03.679 Like, you know what I mean? Like in that opening 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:06.679 scene, Kong is King. Yeah. Yeah. And in that 00:12:06.679 --> 00:12:08.600 opening scene, like it's full of all these references 00:12:08.600 --> 00:12:11.129 and all this stuff and whatever. But Kong, in 00:12:11.129 --> 00:12:12.909 the end, this big reference is the thing that 00:12:12.909 --> 00:12:15.250 is constantly going to destroy everybody. If 00:12:15.250 --> 00:12:17.269 they don't see the other references, they'll 00:12:17.269 --> 00:12:20.710 at least see Kong. And that reference is the 00:12:20.710 --> 00:12:23.309 downfall of that opening scene. Because to me, 00:12:23.350 --> 00:12:25.409 I think what's interesting about the race is 00:12:25.409 --> 00:12:27.710 that the race is talking about this dynamic. 00:12:28.070 --> 00:12:30.769 In the book, it's all just about knowing these 00:12:30.769 --> 00:12:32.529 things or whatever. But in the movie, Spielberg 00:12:32.529 --> 00:12:37.639 changes the whole trial, the whole test. Instead 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:42.100 of him being really good at racing or knowing 00:12:42.100 --> 00:12:44.480 all of these references or whatever, those are 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:47.179 actually something that are keeping people from 00:12:47.179 --> 00:12:49.500 figuring out the test. You know what I mean? 00:12:49.539 --> 00:12:51.899 In Spielberg's movie, these references are a 00:12:51.899 --> 00:12:56.269 distraction. mm -hmm in fact like when parsifal 00:12:56.269 --> 00:12:59.049 first sees um artemis's bike he says to h like 00:12:59.049 --> 00:13:01.309 do you see what this is and he says oh yeah i 00:13:01.309 --> 00:13:03.649 see it it's kind of this bike from akira and 00:13:03.649 --> 00:13:05.490 he's like no no not the bike the person riding 00:13:05.490 --> 00:13:07.409 it it's artemis like blah blah and like that 00:13:07.409 --> 00:13:09.350 was that's like the first of these situations 00:13:09.350 --> 00:13:11.850 in which like somebody's like looking at something 00:13:11.850 --> 00:13:13.789 and what they see is the reference as opposed 00:13:13.789 --> 00:13:15.730 to like the actual thing you know what i mean 00:13:15.730 --> 00:13:17.809 and that reference is just like kind of a distraction 00:13:17.809 --> 00:13:19.929 it's like no no like what's what he's trying 00:13:19.929 --> 00:13:21.649 to get across is like this is artemis this is 00:13:21.649 --> 00:13:24.639 the like the what's interesting here is not the 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:26.580 bike and like the reference and whatever. There's 00:13:26.580 --> 00:13:28.080 like actually a person behind this and this person 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:30.879 has this history and this like anti -authoritarian 00:13:30.879 --> 00:13:34.340 like, you know, channel or whatever. But knowing 00:13:34.340 --> 00:13:37.299 the reference keeps you from seeing the person, 00:13:37.340 --> 00:13:39.860 whatever. And similarly, like going through this 00:13:39.860 --> 00:13:41.820 whole race and like trying to compete in this 00:13:41.820 --> 00:13:45.000 way of like being really good at this game and 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:47.799 like knowing all these references and trying 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:49.580 to, you know, figure out something like that's, 00:13:49.580 --> 00:13:51.940 that's all, that's all the trap. You know what 00:13:51.940 --> 00:13:56.480 I mean? Yeah, and the entire idea of, like, existing 00:13:56.480 --> 00:13:59.120 in an artificial world in which you have an avatar 00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:02.399 is a total obfuscation of reality. Completely. 00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:04.980 And what's actually behind things. A person might 00:14:04.980 --> 00:14:07.740 show up as Goro or whatever, but they're not 00:14:07.740 --> 00:14:09.500 Goro. Right. You look at them and be like, oh, 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:10.980 it's Goro, but that doesn't tell you anything 00:14:10.980 --> 00:14:14.320 about who they are, what's behind it. I mean, 00:14:14.340 --> 00:14:16.440 H even says, like, you know, she could be a dude 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:18.159 named Chuck living in her mother's basement. 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:20.370 You know, it's like. Right. It's like, this is 00:14:20.370 --> 00:14:23.070 fake, and it's all a distraction from a very 00:14:23.070 --> 00:14:26.789 real thing behind it. And the real thing behind 00:14:26.789 --> 00:14:29.710 it is an incredibly depressing dystopian world, 00:14:29.870 --> 00:14:33.929 whatever, that all these people are living in 00:14:33.929 --> 00:14:37.750 poverty and just slavishly spending all their 00:14:37.750 --> 00:14:40.309 time in this digital environment to not face 00:14:40.309 --> 00:14:43.690 reality, right? Right, right. But like you were 00:14:43.690 --> 00:14:46.009 saying, it's not about the reference, it's about 00:14:46.009 --> 00:14:51.179 the person. That ultimately is, what leads parsable 00:14:51.179 --> 00:14:54.460 to figuring out the first clue right it's like 00:14:54.460 --> 00:14:58.500 oh wait holiday it's about understanding the 00:14:58.500 --> 00:15:02.639 creator and his personal life and like what he 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:05.700 might have injected into his art that was like 00:15:05.700 --> 00:15:10.600 meaningful or whatever um it involves him digging 00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:12.860 back through holiday's past and finding some 00:15:12.860 --> 00:15:16.509 memory of him having an argument with his coworker 00:15:16.509 --> 00:15:21.309 about the future of their business and how it's 00:15:21.309 --> 00:15:23.009 kind of gotten out of hand and become this really 00:15:23.009 --> 00:15:24.830 powerful out of control thing that they didn't 00:15:24.830 --> 00:15:27.370 predict and how he just wishes he could go back 00:15:27.370 --> 00:15:28.929 to when it was more simple and all this stuff. 00:15:28.990 --> 00:15:32.669 And this sort of like this poetic idea that the 00:15:32.669 --> 00:15:34.870 creator is expressing that's meaningful to him 00:15:34.870 --> 00:15:38.990 is what unlocks the first clue, like unlocks 00:15:38.990 --> 00:15:43.389 the first realization that like, Oh, you just 00:15:43.389 --> 00:15:46.070 go backwards like there's it's not about like 00:15:46.070 --> 00:15:48.370 actually winning and doing the race it's about 00:15:48.370 --> 00:15:52.110 like understanding this creator and finding a 00:15:52.110 --> 00:15:54.750 back door because of it exactly exactly and that's 00:15:54.750 --> 00:15:56.889 the thing is like when he goes backwards what 00:15:56.889 --> 00:15:59.450 we see is the underpinnings of this level right 00:15:59.450 --> 00:16:02.340 so like instead of like the movie that you're 00:16:02.340 --> 00:16:03.720 watching, you're seeing the behind the scenes 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:07.639 and stuff, you know, it's, it's, you're seeing 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:11.120 the hand of the creator. Like you're seeing the 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:13.539 hidden hand, uh, in that opening scene when he's 00:16:13.539 --> 00:16:15.220 driving backwards and you're seeing the things 00:16:15.220 --> 00:16:18.259 coming up from below. And it's all about understanding 00:16:18.259 --> 00:16:20.080 holiday. And that's, this is essentially like 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:22.580 an expression of auteur theory, right? Like where 00:16:22.580 --> 00:16:25.080 it's like, in order to understand this piece 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:27.039 of art, the piece of art being this race or, 00:16:27.059 --> 00:16:29.340 or holidays, you know, whole test, the whole 00:16:29.340 --> 00:16:31.789 egg hunt. In order to understand that, in order 00:16:31.789 --> 00:16:35.330 to like win it, it's not about sort of winning. 00:16:35.830 --> 00:16:39.509 It's not about like these references and this 00:16:39.509 --> 00:16:41.990 like understanding all of these like surface 00:16:41.990 --> 00:16:44.149 sort of things. Like all of this is simulacra. 00:16:44.250 --> 00:16:46.409 Like all of this is like a repetition of something 00:16:46.409 --> 00:16:50.370 that like is surface level. And there's the thing 00:16:50.370 --> 00:16:52.210 that's behind it isn't the same thing that it 00:16:52.210 --> 00:16:54.669 was anymore either. Like, you know what I mean? 00:16:54.690 --> 00:16:58.029 Like Kaneda's bike is like, it doesn't have the 00:16:58.029 --> 00:17:01.159 same meaning. when it's being ridden by Artemis. 00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:02.879 So like knowing that it's kind of, this bike 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:05.400 is like totally irrelevant. That's just like 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:08.319 a distract. Like, you know what I mean? The only 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:11.240 thing that's relevant is, is that, that creator 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:14.160 thing. As a side note, when he's going underneath 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:16.279 and like, you're seeing the hand and like all 00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:18.700 the mechanics and stuff, especially like when 00:17:18.700 --> 00:17:20.900 you see the T -Rex get lifted up or whatever, 00:17:21.019 --> 00:17:23.019 it really reminds me of like, like if you've 00:17:23.019 --> 00:17:25.200 ever been in universal studios, like when a ride 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.190 breaks down. totally totally and then like all 00:17:28.190 --> 00:17:30.170 the lights turn on and you can just see like 00:17:30.170 --> 00:17:32.289 all like the parts and like the behind the scenes 00:17:32.289 --> 00:17:35.109 like rafters that workers walk on and stuff like 00:17:35.109 --> 00:17:38.809 that and the whole sort of like fantasy is like 00:17:38.809 --> 00:17:43.069 revealed to be a farce totally totally like they 00:17:43.069 --> 00:17:44.710 do that on space mountain i'm pretty sure right 00:17:44.710 --> 00:17:46.529 where they just like turn on the lights at one 00:17:46.529 --> 00:17:48.269 point and then it's like what the fuck is this 00:17:48.269 --> 00:17:49.569 and then they turn the lights off and it becomes 00:17:49.569 --> 00:17:52.420 space man you're right they do that i don't know 00:17:52.420 --> 00:17:53.700 if they do it anymore but i remember that was 00:17:53.700 --> 00:17:56.279 a thing and that's such a it's such a weird meta 00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:59.319 moment you know to like make you aware of the 00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:01.339 farce of the thing yeah yeah that totally does 00:18:01.339 --> 00:18:04.240 feel like that this scene like the going under 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:06.180 and like the thing is like it also feels like 00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:08.720 a ride like this scene is kind of like a universal 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:13.640 ride like um yeah yeah that's that's spielberg 00:18:13.640 --> 00:18:16.339 shit i mean he's He makes so much money from 00:18:16.339 --> 00:18:18.579 Universal. He's got a ridiculous lifetime deal 00:18:18.579 --> 00:18:21.819 for all of his properties. And yeah, tons of 00:18:21.819 --> 00:18:23.779 his movies were turned into awesome, memorable 00:18:23.779 --> 00:18:27.640 rides. Totally. But that really just speaks to 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:30.400 his impact on culture in general, which seeing 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:32.359 him as Halliday and stuff and this whole thing 00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:34.480 where he puts his T -Rex in there and stuff like 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:38.579 that. Ready Player One seems to be Spielberg 00:18:38.579 --> 00:18:40.960 deeply reckoning with his place in the culture. 00:18:41.459 --> 00:18:44.559 Totally. Totally. And what he's wrought and the 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:46.480 fact that there wouldn't be this kind of like 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:48.720 Marvel Cinematic Universe and all this IP bullshit 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:51.420 if it wasn't for stuff like Jurassic Park in 00:18:51.420 --> 00:18:53.180 the first place, like the Hollywood blockbuster. 00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:55.460 Totally. And Star Wars and whatever, you know, 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:57.920 it's like these things were like, these are the 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:00.519 things that begun this trend. Well, this is better 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:02.140 for worse. This is one of the things that I think 00:19:02.140 --> 00:19:04.210 is really, I mean. So, well, first of all, like, 00:19:04.250 --> 00:19:07.589 there's very few Spielberg movie references in 00:19:07.589 --> 00:19:10.029 Ready Player One at all. And, like, whether the 00:19:10.029 --> 00:19:12.670 T -Rex actually is his T -Rex or not is, like, 00:19:12.690 --> 00:19:17.069 up for debate. I did read that they reused the 00:19:17.069 --> 00:19:19.430 exact model from the original, but, like, gave 00:19:19.430 --> 00:19:22.549 it better textures. Cool. Cool. That's his iconic. 00:19:22.970 --> 00:19:25.670 But there's no, like, the same roar and everything. 00:19:25.769 --> 00:19:27.430 In the original script, there were, like, overt 00:19:27.430 --> 00:19:30.529 E .T. references. There were overt, like, there 00:19:30.529 --> 00:19:32.349 were all sorts of overt Spielberg references. 00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:34.460 And when Spielberg got on the project, he demanded 00:19:34.460 --> 00:19:37.200 they take all that out. Yeah, that makes sense. 00:19:37.299 --> 00:19:39.640 So there are very few like direct references 00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:44.160 to his sort of works. But that like he uses all 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:46.140 these other works as a stand in for his works. 00:19:46.220 --> 00:19:47.299 You know what I mean? He's talking about that 00:19:47.299 --> 00:19:49.420 culture and he's talking about himself. Well, 00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:52.059 it's very Zemeckis heavy. Yeah. Yeah. Which is 00:19:52.059 --> 00:19:55.559 essentially, you know, his boy. But yeah, but 00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:56.599 I think I think you're I think you're right. 00:19:56.660 --> 00:19:58.380 I think that a lot of this is him reckoning with 00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:01.339 his place in the culture and this sort of IP. 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:05.480 you know, this like simulacra sort of society 00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:07.759 in which like everything is a reference to something 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:10.339 else. Right. Where it's like signs pointing to 00:20:10.339 --> 00:20:12.180 signs, pointing to things or whatever. And like 00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:14.680 all, like the original is something that people 00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:17.200 don't even really understand or care about anymore. 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:19.720 Um, or if they do care about it, they care about 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:21.740 it for the wrong reasons because of like all 00:20:21.740 --> 00:20:24.480 sorts of, you know, referencey detail things 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:27.099 or whatever, or they, they care about Monty Python's 00:20:27.099 --> 00:20:29.240 Holy grail so much that they can say every single 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:30.720 line from the whole movie or whatever. And it's 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:33.319 like, that's not, That's not what made a Monty 00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:35.680 Python. You know what I mean? Those guys are 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:39.940 funny. You can't be Monty Python if you're the 00:20:39.940 --> 00:20:41.920 type of person who just sits there and repeats 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.059 all of the lines from a Monty Python movie. You're 00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:47.359 not going to create a new artist like that in 00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:51.019 this sort of derivative society. I think that 00:20:51.019 --> 00:20:52.359 one of the things that's really interesting is 00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:54.660 that in Ready Player One, and it's been posed 00:20:54.660 --> 00:20:58.420 as a criticism against the movie, but... that 00:20:58.420 --> 00:21:01.400 in ready player one, there's like no new media 00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:03.599 that this takes place in the future, but there's 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:06.180 no future thing. Like, you know what I mean? 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:08.599 There's no other, like every single thing in 00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:10.400 the movie is a reference that we understand in 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:13.420 modern times. And like, why would there not be 00:21:13.420 --> 00:21:18.880 a new Superman in 2020 or 25th? When is it? When 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:22.500 does it take place? It takes place in 2045. It 00:21:22.500 --> 00:21:26.119 takes place in 2045. Okay. So the idea that in, 00:21:26.259 --> 00:21:30.910 you know, the, 25 years between when this movie 00:21:30.910 --> 00:21:32.390 came out and when this movie is supposed to take 00:21:32.390 --> 00:21:35.049 place that there's no new media. Like that's 00:21:35.049 --> 00:21:38.569 been said to be like, Oh, well, like that's obviously 00:21:38.569 --> 00:21:41.029 a plot hole. Right. And I think, no, that's not 00:21:41.029 --> 00:21:43.009 a plot hole. There's, there's no new media in 00:21:43.009 --> 00:21:44.569 this movie because there's no new media being 00:21:44.569 --> 00:21:47.150 made. And I think that if you look at it, it's 00:21:47.150 --> 00:21:48.869 all just a simulacra reference of a reference. 00:21:49.269 --> 00:21:52.609 Exactly. Exactly. And there, there are like nineties 00:21:52.609 --> 00:21:55.089 and even two thousands references in this movie 00:21:55.089 --> 00:21:57.170 or whatever, but the majority of, of all of these 00:21:57.170 --> 00:21:58.670 pop culture references are from the eighties. 00:21:59.089 --> 00:22:02.150 Um, There are, I mean, there's like Overwatch 00:22:02.150 --> 00:22:04.269 characters, which is a Blizzard game from like 00:22:04.269 --> 00:22:08.049 the 2010s and stuff. There's a few really modern 00:22:08.049 --> 00:22:10.509 ones, but you're right. For the most part, it's 00:22:10.509 --> 00:22:13.710 all of Halliday's interests are what mostly populate, 00:22:13.710 --> 00:22:16.410 which is like he grew up in the 80s. like the 00:22:16.410 --> 00:22:19.589 70s and 80s. He was like a kid in the 80s and 00:22:19.589 --> 00:22:21.509 a teenager in the 90s. I think like his favorite 00:22:21.509 --> 00:22:24.029 game is Goldeneye, right? Playing his odd job. 00:22:24.329 --> 00:22:27.210 But I think part of the reason that it works, 00:22:27.289 --> 00:22:28.829 that how they grew up in the 80s and whatever, 00:22:28.990 --> 00:22:33.150 in this way of talking about Spielberg and, you 00:22:33.150 --> 00:22:37.250 know, this modern movie culture, is that when 00:22:37.250 --> 00:22:39.410 you think about what things you would put in 00:22:39.410 --> 00:22:42.210 a movie as like cultural references that everybody 00:22:42.210 --> 00:22:45.200 would know. the majority of them are from the 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:47.839 80s you know what i mean like they're not creating 00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:51.039 grand like big new franchise things or whatever 00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:54.380 that everybody's in on like there's you know 00:22:54.380 --> 00:22:56.079 star wars or whatever that's based on something 00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:59.059 from the 70s like there's there's like all of 00:22:59.059 --> 00:23:02.059 these late 70s it's like basically the 80s yeah 00:23:02.059 --> 00:23:03.640 yeah but it's not like these are the references 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:07.799 everyone would know because like one thing came 00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:09.940 out in the 80s that everybody remembers it's 00:23:09.940 --> 00:23:13.480 just because All of this pop culture stuff that 00:23:13.480 --> 00:23:17.259 really fired off in the late 70s and 80s with 00:23:17.259 --> 00:23:21.539 movies and video games just continues to be retreaded. 00:23:22.380 --> 00:23:25.460 There's a new Jurassic Park movie coming out 00:23:25.460 --> 00:23:29.380 next year or something. They don't stop making 00:23:29.380 --> 00:23:31.319 these fucking things. They're all just drawing 00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:34.380 from things from the 70s and 80s and 90s. From 00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:38.839 this somewhat golden era of capitalist art, consumer 00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:42.109 art. That was all about franchise and creating 00:23:42.109 --> 00:23:44.009 the thing that would make lunchboxes and whatever. 00:23:44.230 --> 00:23:47.609 Exactly. Exactly. But that's the thing is there's 00:23:47.609 --> 00:23:49.890 creating the franchise, coming up with something 00:23:49.890 --> 00:23:53.289 like that, that will sell lunchboxes and whatever 00:23:53.289 --> 00:23:56.069 is one thing. And then just like using the one 00:23:56.069 --> 00:23:58.210 that already exists to sell lunchboxes is another, 00:23:58.369 --> 00:24:00.950 you know, and today, like we definitely use all 00:24:00.950 --> 00:24:04.970 of these, you know. ip's that already exist intellectual 00:24:04.970 --> 00:24:07.049 properties that you know these companies have 00:24:07.049 --> 00:24:08.809 bought and they're reselling to us whether it's 00:24:08.809 --> 00:24:11.890 you know comic books from the 20s or what but 00:24:11.890 --> 00:24:16.369 this is an era of filmmaking and of culture in 00:24:16.369 --> 00:24:19.269 general in which like these new things are not 00:24:19.269 --> 00:24:22.470 being made um already because people are already 00:24:22.470 --> 00:24:26.049 living in this sort of oasis in which like everybody's 00:24:26.049 --> 00:24:28.670 in on a conversation that is referencing the 00:24:28.670 --> 00:24:30.750 things that they're already interested in and 00:24:30.750 --> 00:24:33.130 whatever and like there's so much personal feedback 00:24:33.130 --> 00:24:36.849 that it doesn't develop i think and i think i 00:24:36.849 --> 00:24:39.289 think a lot of this has to do with the political 00:24:39.289 --> 00:24:42.890 and and you know a lot of this has to do with 00:24:42.890 --> 00:24:45.390 the business side of things too basically i think 00:24:45.390 --> 00:24:49.130 that if you look at the time that all of these 00:24:49.130 --> 00:24:52.690 great franchises were created um there's a very 00:24:52.690 --> 00:24:55.250 different sort of business and there were very 00:24:55.250 --> 00:24:57.910 different sort of creatives involved whereas 00:24:57.910 --> 00:25:00.990 now we don't have that and so those things aren't 00:25:00.990 --> 00:25:03.130 being created You know what I mean? I think that 00:25:03.130 --> 00:25:04.910 like a lot of this has to do with like Spielberg 00:25:04.910 --> 00:25:07.910 and Lucas and all these guys that created all 00:25:07.910 --> 00:25:09.289 this stuff. Like they were part of the whole 00:25:09.289 --> 00:25:12.829 new Hollywood era in which like the auteurs were 00:25:12.829 --> 00:25:16.890 actually trusted by the money men with like huge 00:25:16.890 --> 00:25:19.390 budgets and huge amounts of freedom to do literally 00:25:19.390 --> 00:25:21.309 whatever they wanted. Like just like totally 00:25:21.309 --> 00:25:24.410 personal projects for like millions and millions 00:25:24.410 --> 00:25:27.700 of dollars. And like. That's just not something 00:25:27.700 --> 00:25:29.920 that happened after a certain point. And a lot 00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:32.539 of that was because they figured out how to monetize 00:25:32.539 --> 00:25:35.660 the blockbuster. And a lot of that is basically 00:25:35.660 --> 00:25:38.980 because of Spielberg. Like this is Jaws comes 00:25:38.980 --> 00:25:42.099 out and they kind of see, oh, OK, well, like 00:25:42.099 --> 00:25:45.299 all we need to do to sell huge amounts of tickets 00:25:45.299 --> 00:25:49.019 for like. you know, a full year or whatever is 00:25:49.019 --> 00:25:51.000 just come out with like the type of movies you've 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:52.920 been coming out with for a hundred years. There's, 00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:55.819 you know, just do a big creature picture, but 00:25:55.819 --> 00:25:57.720 just do it, you know, a little bit more expensive. 00:25:57.740 --> 00:26:01.220 You know what I mean? And just making a B movie. 00:26:01.259 --> 00:26:02.920 Star Wars is really important too. And it comes 00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:05.140 to the merchandising potential and like all that 00:26:05.140 --> 00:26:08.440 stuff. Absolutely. Absolutely. Cause yeah, just 00:26:08.440 --> 00:26:11.400 make, make a big ass movie that like really just 00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:13.500 makes tons of money. And then you just like, 00:26:13.950 --> 00:26:16.710 reap it for all it's worth by making action figures 00:26:16.710 --> 00:26:19.410 and video games and whatever, you know, just 00:26:19.410 --> 00:26:23.089 create as many products based on this IP as possible. 00:26:23.190 --> 00:26:27.170 And the thing is like, those were created in 00:26:27.170 --> 00:26:28.890 the new Hollywood era though. Like those are 00:26:28.890 --> 00:26:32.470 new Hollywood films. Like Jaws is not just like 00:26:32.470 --> 00:26:35.470 a stupid, like bullshit creature picture. Like, 00:26:35.470 --> 00:26:37.720 uh, that would come out later in the eighties. 00:26:37.779 --> 00:26:39.900 You know what I mean? Like Jaws was something 00:26:39.900 --> 00:26:41.839 that connected to the culture and all sorts of 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:46.539 Jaws 2. Like the reason that Jaws worked, like 00:26:46.539 --> 00:26:49.299 has everything to do with Spielberg's touch and 00:26:49.299 --> 00:26:51.980 like the way that he's interacting with the culture 00:26:51.980 --> 00:26:57.000 of 1977. Like the fact that the money men couldn't 00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:01.109 see that, like. And that the audiences couldn't 00:27:01.109 --> 00:27:02.950 see that is part of the problem. I think that 00:27:02.950 --> 00:27:06.130 people become fans of Jaws just because, oh, 00:27:06.170 --> 00:27:08.890 it's a shark movie. And then they watch another 00:27:08.890 --> 00:27:10.170 movie and they're like, oh, yeah, I like that 00:27:10.170 --> 00:27:11.869 because it's like Jaws. And it's like, no, dude, 00:27:11.910 --> 00:27:14.490 that's not. Jaws connected with wide audiences 00:27:14.490 --> 00:27:16.450 because of all sorts of emotional realities that 00:27:16.450 --> 00:27:18.490 it was touching on that nobody had sort of been 00:27:18.490 --> 00:27:20.890 talking about and stuff. I don't really want 00:27:20.890 --> 00:27:22.349 to get too into Jaws. We'll get into Jaws at 00:27:22.349 --> 00:27:25.769 some point. Sure, yeah. I think that part of 00:27:25.769 --> 00:27:27.849 the thing is that these were misinterpreted and 00:27:27.849 --> 00:27:31.410 then corporatized by people like IOI and turned 00:27:31.410 --> 00:27:33.769 into this sort of business and stuff. And Spielberg 00:27:33.769 --> 00:27:35.609 is kind of talking about like at the I mean, 00:27:35.609 --> 00:27:36.950 I think that what's interesting is this is kind 00:27:36.950 --> 00:27:39.250 of the end of Spielberg's career. Like he's an 00:27:39.250 --> 00:27:41.210 old guy now and he's kind of wondering about 00:27:41.210 --> 00:27:43.769 like, well, what comes next? Like who is going 00:27:43.769 --> 00:27:46.680 to carry on this legacy? Because like. there's 00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:49.819 nobody now you know what i mean like if if holiday 00:27:49.819 --> 00:27:52.420 dies like who's gonna take up the thing other 00:27:52.420 --> 00:27:55.099 than ioi like we need to find someone and who 00:27:55.099 --> 00:27:57.559 do you find like and if Spielberg's thinking 00:27:57.559 --> 00:28:00.000 about that as, you know, a great director, like 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.700 who's going to be the next Spielberg. And I think 00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:04.319 that in this movie, he's really trying to make 00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:07.160 the point that like, he is not just a stupid 00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:09.119 commercial director, that there is something 00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:11.400 about these movies and these franchises and these 00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:14.359 things that like requires a true auteur to create. 00:28:14.700 --> 00:28:17.279 And in absence of those true auteurs, these things 00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:20.839 will not be created basically. And they'll just 00:28:20.839 --> 00:28:24.420 be sort of mined like by IOI until they don't, 00:28:24.420 --> 00:28:27.789 they lose all meaning. destroy themselves. Um, 00:28:27.990 --> 00:28:30.630 IOI was just such a perfect name for that company 00:28:30.630 --> 00:28:34.130 for so many reasons. Yeah. Um, like for, for 00:28:34.130 --> 00:28:36.210 one, it kind of looks like how it looks like 00:28:36.210 --> 00:28:39.009 the circle between the two lines, which is kind 00:28:39.009 --> 00:28:41.829 of like the Jacob's ladder symbol or whatever. 00:28:42.069 --> 00:28:46.789 Yeah. And it's a Masonic symbol. Yeah. I don't 00:28:46.789 --> 00:28:49.910 know. And just like 2001 feels really connected 00:28:49.910 --> 00:28:52.369 to this movie and obviously Kubrick in general, 00:28:52.390 --> 00:28:54.710 if you wanted to like focus on the shining sequence 00:28:54.710 --> 00:28:58.430 for a minute, Yeah. Well, that's I mean, I think 00:28:58.430 --> 00:28:59.970 I think we've kind of covered the first trial 00:28:59.970 --> 00:29:02.450 or the first test, which like essentially was 00:29:02.450 --> 00:29:04.609 very much about auteur theory or whatever. But 00:29:04.609 --> 00:29:06.490 the second one, I think, is very much about what 00:29:06.490 --> 00:29:08.950 we're talking about now is like thinking about 00:29:08.950 --> 00:29:13.490 Spielberg specifically and like his legacy and 00:29:13.490 --> 00:29:16.029 who he kind of is trying to connect him with. 00:29:16.069 --> 00:29:19.680 And this is absolutely Kubrick like. I feel like 00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:22.019 Spielberg is saying, like, Halliday and me, who 00:29:22.019 --> 00:29:24.240 are the same person, are also Kubrick, who is 00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:25.839 kind of the same person. You know what I mean? 00:29:26.579 --> 00:29:28.500 It's kind of like Holy Trinity or something. 00:29:28.619 --> 00:29:30.299 It's like the last scene in the bedroom. But 00:29:30.299 --> 00:29:33.099 we'll get there. Yeah. And I think that... Kubrick 00:29:33.099 --> 00:29:35.460 and Spielberg are not thought of as similar directors 00:29:35.460 --> 00:29:38.180 at all in our sort of society. We've got like 00:29:38.180 --> 00:29:40.779 all of these, you know, crazy conspiracy theories 00:29:40.779 --> 00:29:43.319 about all of this depth to these Kubrick movies. 00:29:43.700 --> 00:29:46.539 And there's very little out there about any depth 00:29:46.539 --> 00:29:50.200 in Spielberg movies whatsoever. And I think that 00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:52.119 Spielberg, by making this connection, is kind 00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:53.740 of trying to be like, no, there's like there's 00:29:53.740 --> 00:29:57.380 stuff in there, you know, like if you're looking 00:29:57.380 --> 00:29:59.099 at the auteur and you're looking at the thing 00:29:59.099 --> 00:30:01.190 like. there's actually stuff to be discovered 00:30:01.190 --> 00:30:04.890 by the people who are looking for it. But this 00:30:04.890 --> 00:30:07.170 is his conception of the Easter egg. And that's 00:30:07.170 --> 00:30:09.150 the thing is the Easter egg in Ready Player One 00:30:09.150 --> 00:30:11.369 is very different in the movie than in the book. 00:30:11.410 --> 00:30:13.250 Because in the book, all of the Easter eggs are 00:30:13.250 --> 00:30:15.190 essentially just like, oh, I got that reference. 00:30:15.329 --> 00:30:17.269 Like that's a reference to that Rush album. That's 00:30:17.269 --> 00:30:19.890 the Easter egg. And then you're rewarded for 00:30:19.890 --> 00:30:22.769 knowing that. In Spielberg's version, the Easter 00:30:22.769 --> 00:30:25.309 egg is something that reveals a hidden truth 00:30:25.309 --> 00:30:29.329 inside. the game. You know what I mean? Like 00:30:29.329 --> 00:30:32.170 there's, there's something about the Easter egg 00:30:32.170 --> 00:30:36.450 that reveals that the rest of the game is not 00:30:36.450 --> 00:30:39.809 what it appeared to be. The Easter egg is kind 00:30:39.809 --> 00:30:43.029 of a hidden clue that clues you into what the 00:30:43.029 --> 00:30:45.470 whole thing is talking about. Um, as opposed 00:30:45.470 --> 00:30:48.890 to just like, uh, Oh, look at this. I got that. 00:30:48.930 --> 00:30:50.829 I'm smart. I'm we're on the, we're the same. 00:30:50.950 --> 00:30:53.289 I'm just like this guy, you know? Yeah. And it's 00:30:53.289 --> 00:30:55.089 another situation where they have to go back 00:30:55.089 --> 00:30:57.930 into his past and look at some memory. To find 00:30:57.930 --> 00:31:00.809 something about his personal life. Yep. To find 00:31:00.809 --> 00:31:05.410 out about this leap he didn't take. It turns 00:31:05.410 --> 00:31:08.690 out Halliday ironically had no game. He couldn't 00:31:08.690 --> 00:31:11.509 get laid. He couldn't make a connection with 00:31:11.509 --> 00:31:14.430 another human being. And that was like a really 00:31:14.430 --> 00:31:19.089 important part of his journey as hero, anti -hero, 00:31:19.170 --> 00:31:22.819 whatever you want to call him. And, yeah, and 00:31:22.819 --> 00:31:24.359 this whole, like, the creator that hates his 00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:27.079 creation talking about the adaptation of the 00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:29.759 book The Shining into the movie The Shining really 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:31.660 speaks with this whole Ernest Cline adaptation 00:31:31.660 --> 00:31:34.900 thing as well. Right. Because basically, like... 00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:37.880 King's hatred of The Shining is obviously because 00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:40.819 Kubrick is attacking The Shining in that movie. 00:31:40.980 --> 00:31:44.420 I think a lot of what The Shining is about is 00:31:44.420 --> 00:31:46.539 if you're into ghost stories, you're fucking 00:31:46.539 --> 00:31:49.400 stupid and probably an alcoholic who molests 00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:55.000 your children. He hates the author of that book, 00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:57.660 and that movie is about the author of that book 00:31:57.660 --> 00:32:01.180 sucking so much. In some ways, yeah. I think 00:32:01.180 --> 00:32:03.140 this has been covered pretty well by people like 00:32:03.140 --> 00:32:07.160 Rob Ager. Collative learning and stuff. But like, 00:32:07.259 --> 00:32:10.799 I think that Kubrick at a certain point, he like 00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:13.779 takes the, the main character's car and crashes 00:32:13.779 --> 00:32:15.660 it on the side of the road to like, show you 00:32:15.660 --> 00:32:18.619 that he's throwing the book in the trash and 00:32:18.619 --> 00:32:20.319 like doing whatever he wants with it and stuff. 00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:23.720 He's very disrespectful. From the book. Yeah. 00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:26.079 The car from the car that crashes is like a red 00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:28.119 car from the book, but the car in the movie is 00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:29.839 blue or something. Right. Right. But then you 00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:31.660 see the red car from the book and it's destroyed 00:32:31.660 --> 00:32:34.559 because the book is now. you know tossed in the 00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:36.220 trash and we're doing whatever we want and talking 00:32:36.220 --> 00:32:38.000 about something interesting instead of the stupid 00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:41.039 bullshit that this guy wrote it's kind of the 00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:46.059 the vibe of of the very very antagonistic movie 00:32:46.059 --> 00:32:47.680 against his creator kind of like what we're talking 00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:49.759 about with wonka and roald dahl yeah yeah absolutely 00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:53.740 um and i think that specifically um that's what's 00:32:53.740 --> 00:32:56.059 going on in this movie too i mean we talked about 00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:59.420 Ernest Cline's sort of love of nerd culture and 00:32:59.420 --> 00:33:01.579 referencing Spielberg and whatever. And I think 00:33:01.579 --> 00:33:03.119 Spielberg is kind of like, look at this and be 00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:05.519 like, oh man, look at this fucking worm who worships 00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:09.500 me like this. I want to destroy him. You know 00:33:09.500 --> 00:33:10.900 what I mean? It's kind of like, I don't want 00:33:10.900 --> 00:33:13.500 to be associated with this thing going, but I 00:33:13.500 --> 00:33:15.119 don't want this to be the guy that fucking takes 00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:17.619 up the carries the fire. You know what I mean? 00:33:17.619 --> 00:33:19.859 This is not the guy. And I need to make a whole 00:33:19.859 --> 00:33:22.240 movie based on this guy's book about how this 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:25.099 is not the guy. And all of it's kind of about 00:33:25.099 --> 00:33:27.720 he also helped pen the script. Ernest Cline and 00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:30.140 Zach Penn wrote the script. Right. But I guess 00:33:30.140 --> 00:33:32.099 you have to imagine that Spielberg was whispering 00:33:32.099 --> 00:33:33.960 in their ears the whole time or something. Yeah. 00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:36.240 I mean, so there's a really great interview to 00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:38.359 make all those decisions that Zach Penn does 00:33:38.359 --> 00:33:42.039 with Creative Screenwriting Magazine. And in 00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:44.200 that interview, you really hear him talking around 00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:46.380 his collaboration with Spielberg and stuff because 00:33:46.380 --> 00:33:47.940 there are certain things that he can't say and 00:33:47.940 --> 00:33:49.460 he's not allowed to talk about cut stuff. And 00:33:49.460 --> 00:33:53.380 like Spielberg is very, you know. very secretive 00:33:53.380 --> 00:33:55.980 about his process and you know, what he's trying 00:33:55.980 --> 00:33:58.180 to get across. But Zach Penn also gets across 00:33:58.180 --> 00:34:00.980 the idea that gets across the vibe that like, 00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:04.259 he also didn't really know what Spielberg wanted 00:34:04.259 --> 00:34:07.559 when he was doing this, that he kind of had to 00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:10.940 figure out what Spielberg was not saying. Um, 00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:12.440 a lot of the time where he's kind of like, Oh, 00:34:12.579 --> 00:34:14.619 okay. So maybe this is kind of supposed to be 00:34:14.619 --> 00:34:16.559 about this and whatever. And Spielberg would 00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:19.079 come in and make big, just declarations or whatever. 00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:21.320 And they'd be like, fuck, what? No, wait, okay, 00:34:21.539 --> 00:34:23.679 I guess we have to do that now. How do we do 00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:26.840 that? And his thing is kind of like, it seems 00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:29.639 like Spielberg is just doing, you know, just 00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:30.960 flying by the seat of his pants or whatever, 00:34:31.059 --> 00:34:33.000 but you end up realizing there's a method to 00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:36.219 his madness and stuff. So the writing process 00:34:36.219 --> 00:34:38.840 very much seems to be a situation, much like, 00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:41.579 you know, the collaboration with Kubrick and 00:34:41.579 --> 00:34:45.260 Clark on 2001 and stuff, a collaboration of somebody 00:34:45.260 --> 00:34:49.340 who is using the people who work for them like 00:34:49.340 --> 00:34:51.139 tools. Like, you know what I mean? The way that, 00:34:51.139 --> 00:34:53.360 you know, Kubrick is often criticized for using 00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:57.480 actors as tools and whatever. And I would argue 00:34:57.480 --> 00:34:59.699 using his writers as that sort of thing and being 00:34:59.699 --> 00:35:02.000 antagonistic towards his source material, antagonistic 00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:03.739 towards his writers, antagonistic towards his 00:35:03.739 --> 00:35:06.059 actors, all those sorts of things. I think that 00:35:06.059 --> 00:35:08.300 Spielberg is also doing a lot of that. And because 00:35:08.300 --> 00:35:12.820 his movies are so seductive in a spectacle sort 00:35:12.820 --> 00:35:16.820 of way, it's harder to see that. Whereas Kubrick's 00:35:16.820 --> 00:35:18.780 movies are always so weird that you're kind of 00:35:18.780 --> 00:35:20.880 always distanced in this sort of intellectual 00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:23.679 way to kind of think about, oh, why is this so 00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:26.340 weird? In a Spielberg movie, it's all so just 00:35:26.340 --> 00:35:28.599 like smooth and just like feels so good that 00:35:28.599 --> 00:35:30.659 you don't even think about how weird it is. You 00:35:30.659 --> 00:35:32.059 know what I mean? That this is happening. Oh, 00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:34.500 yeah. It's so weird. And like, did you notice 00:35:34.500 --> 00:35:37.579 how erotic Ready Player One is subtly? Right. 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.960 Exactly. And I think that this brings us to like 00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:43.690 in the Shining sequence, like. And Spielberg 00:35:43.690 --> 00:35:44.909 came in one day and was like, we're going to 00:35:44.909 --> 00:35:47.269 do zombies in The Shining. And like Ernest Cline 00:35:47.269 --> 00:35:50.050 and Zach Penn were both like, no, dude, there's 00:35:50.050 --> 00:35:52.030 no zombies in The Shining. And Spielberg was 00:35:52.030 --> 00:35:55.050 like, no, we're doing it. And they're like, OK, 00:35:55.789 --> 00:35:57.650 why? Like what? And then he's like, no, we're 00:35:57.650 --> 00:35:58.909 going to do that. There's going to be a big swinging 00:35:58.909 --> 00:36:01.030 axe. There's going to be the lady is going to 00:36:01.030 --> 00:36:02.550 have a knife. And it was like, what are you fucking 00:36:02.550 --> 00:36:04.510 talking about? And then they had to write this 00:36:04.510 --> 00:36:08.070 thing. And it's like Spielberg had an idea here 00:36:08.070 --> 00:36:10.610 and they had to figure it out. But he wasn't 00:36:10.610 --> 00:36:12.130 willing to tell them like this is what this scene 00:36:12.130 --> 00:36:15.349 is about. However, all of these choices do point 00:36:15.349 --> 00:36:18.630 towards a hidden hand that is trying to get across 00:36:18.630 --> 00:36:22.590 something. The idea that there are zombies in 00:36:22.590 --> 00:36:26.110 The Shining for no reason all of a sudden, that's 00:36:26.110 --> 00:36:28.030 a choice. That's not a choice that Ernest Cline 00:36:28.030 --> 00:36:30.769 or Zach Penn wanted to make. I mean, Ernest Cline 00:36:30.769 --> 00:36:33.219 wanted to probably do a very... straightforward 00:36:33.219 --> 00:36:35.320 adaptation of the signing where all of the characters 00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:36.860 said all of the words that the character said 00:36:36.860 --> 00:36:38.519 in the shining. And it's like, that's a very 00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:41.880 boring scene. Whereas Spielberg comes in and 00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:44.000 just takes this source material and does something 00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:46.440 totally different with it. Um, the way that he 00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:48.199 does in the movie, the way that Kubrick did when 00:36:48.199 --> 00:36:50.699 he did the shining and yeah. And the way that 00:36:50.699 --> 00:36:52.159 he's doing, yeah. And with ready player one, 00:36:52.219 --> 00:36:54.460 he even, he even, he even makes sure that like 00:36:54.460 --> 00:36:57.119 H hasn't even seen the shining. Right. Like, 00:36:58.110 --> 00:36:59.510 There's like a character who's like actually 00:36:59.510 --> 00:37:01.489 just ignorant of it and whatever. Totally. And 00:37:01.489 --> 00:37:04.590 he's the one that discovers the key because he 00:37:04.590 --> 00:37:08.070 notices Halliday and... He notices Halliday and 00:37:08.070 --> 00:37:10.929 Kira in the photo from the end of the movie. 00:37:10.949 --> 00:37:13.480 Exactly. And that's you can imagine everybody 00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:16.280 else was going around noticing all these references, 00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:18.639 knowing what to stay away from and not to go 00:37:18.639 --> 00:37:25.179 into, you know, room 237. But instead, this, 00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:27.800 you know, guy, guy has no idea what's going on, 00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:29.400 just stumbles into it. And then he's like, oh, 00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:32.840 I know about holiday and this and Kira. And that's 00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:35.739 them. I saw them. I noticed the thing. And that 00:37:35.739 --> 00:37:37.619 allows them to kind of find the key to this, 00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:39.679 which has nothing at all to do with the shining. 00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:42.880 Just like. you know kubrick's movie had nothing 00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:45.840 to do with what uh king was trying to say and 00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:47.719 just like spielberg's movie has nothing to do 00:37:47.719 --> 00:37:51.260 with what ernest klein was trying to say um it's 00:37:51.260 --> 00:37:53.699 about the creator putting in something there 00:37:53.699 --> 00:37:56.480 and what this what this part of the movie is 00:37:56.480 --> 00:37:58.420 really talking about is like the failure of the 00:37:58.420 --> 00:38:00.380 creator i think like when you said like he was 00:38:00.380 --> 00:38:03.510 kind of a weird autistic guy who never you know 00:38:03.510 --> 00:38:05.969 could kiss a girl or anything like he's very 00:38:05.969 --> 00:38:09.309 much in arrested development um and he never 00:38:09.309 --> 00:38:12.869 really developed like as a human like adult and 00:38:12.869 --> 00:38:15.429 that kept him miserable and whatnot i think the 00:38:15.429 --> 00:38:17.409 part of what's interesting here is that there 00:38:17.409 --> 00:38:23.550 is no juice but but yeah spielberg too like he 00:38:23.550 --> 00:38:26.130 is somebody who like has always kind of been 00:38:26.130 --> 00:38:29.150 seen as this like adult kid sort of thing He's 00:38:29.150 --> 00:38:31.449 always been interested in kids' movies. In his 00:38:31.449 --> 00:38:36.550 whole new Hollywood era, his whole cohort, he's 00:38:36.550 --> 00:38:38.389 the only one that was really interested in kids' 00:38:38.489 --> 00:38:43.070 movies. I guess Lucas got into that in maybe 00:38:43.070 --> 00:38:46.949 a cynical way or whatever. But Spielberg is particularly 00:38:46.949 --> 00:38:52.650 interested in that childhood time. You can reference 00:38:52.650 --> 00:38:54.929 our conversation about Hook if you want. Yeah, 00:38:54.969 --> 00:38:59.119 totally, totally. And I think that in this movie, 00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:01.179 like, I think it's weird and interesting that 00:39:01.179 --> 00:39:03.360 he's sort of equating himself with somebody who's 00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:05.559 in this sort of arrested development. It seems 00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:08.440 like a pretty harsh self -critique, or at least, 00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:12.139 or maybe a pretty knowing self -critique. But 00:39:12.139 --> 00:39:14.360 I think that part of it is, again, like we talked 00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:16.400 in the first one, who is it that's going to carry 00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:19.619 on the fire or whatever? I think that part of 00:39:19.619 --> 00:39:21.400 what Spielberg's saying is that, like, he doesn't 00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:24.679 want somebody who's got the same... you know 00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:27.780 issues that spielberg has that is you know spielberg 00:39:27.780 --> 00:39:29.719 has a lot of trauma that he's been holding on 00:39:29.719 --> 00:39:31.699 to and whatever and that like he doesn't necessarily 00:39:31.699 --> 00:39:35.280 think that having the same trauma is good you 00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:38.539 know or that you know that trauma is good like 00:39:38.539 --> 00:39:41.280 instead like that he thinks you know you should 00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:43.559 be able to like not follow in my footsteps he's 00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:45.579 like i want somebody who's like not gonna make 00:39:45.579 --> 00:39:47.719 the same mistakes that i made like i want somebody 00:39:47.719 --> 00:39:49.679 who could kiss a girl like that would be good 00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:52.440 like you know what i mean Yeah, because they're 00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:54.139 going to have more of a human understanding of 00:39:54.139 --> 00:39:57.900 what to do with this thing, you know, the media 00:39:57.900 --> 00:40:02.199 and what it's doing for the world. But I think 00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:04.480 it's I think it's very interesting for Spielberg 00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:07.639 to equate himself and Kubrick and Halliday in 00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:10.980 this sort of way. And again, talking about like 00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:14.079 people using something that they're against and 00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:16.530 kind of. Connecting that to the first one, like 00:40:16.530 --> 00:40:18.650 looking at the creator, thinking about their 00:40:18.650 --> 00:40:21.289 ideas and then looking at how they, you know, 00:40:21.289 --> 00:40:22.949 how they're dealing with this source material 00:40:22.949 --> 00:40:25.889 that allows you to actually see the real thing 00:40:25.889 --> 00:40:29.010 going on. And then, you know, when find the Easter 00:40:29.010 --> 00:40:31.590 egg, you know what I mean? Figure out the hidden 00:40:31.590 --> 00:40:34.349 hand. Yeah, the hidden hand of the creator. And 00:40:34.349 --> 00:40:37.190 it's almost like obvious when you go back and 00:40:37.190 --> 00:40:39.949 watch it and stuff that like I think Halliday 00:40:39.949 --> 00:40:42.010 at the beginning, he just says he says like the 00:40:42.010 --> 00:40:44.389 keys aren't just lying around under a rock somewhere. 00:40:44.909 --> 00:40:48.090 They're up here, and he points to his head. It's 00:40:48.090 --> 00:40:50.789 also interesting talking about this whole passing 00:40:50.789 --> 00:40:53.070 the torch thing and stuff in reference to Willy 00:40:53.070 --> 00:40:55.210 Wonka, because we just talked about this, and 00:40:55.210 --> 00:40:57.309 we also talked about it in comparison to a Spielberg 00:40:57.309 --> 00:41:00.630 movie, which is even funnier. But this is a total 00:41:00.630 --> 00:41:03.250 Wonka competition. No, I mean, this is a remake 00:41:03.250 --> 00:41:06.050 of Willy Wonka, yeah. And that's, I mean, Ernest 00:41:06.050 --> 00:41:09.170 Cline, just like, as somebody who's just a derivative 00:41:09.170 --> 00:41:13.300 writer, just, like, did Willy Wonka. And Wade 00:41:13.300 --> 00:41:16.260 Watts is kind of like a Charlie Bucket in some 00:41:16.260 --> 00:41:19.699 ways. He transcends Charlie Bucket just like 00:41:19.699 --> 00:41:22.380 Halliday transcends Wonka. Wade ends up being 00:41:22.380 --> 00:41:25.639 the anti -Charlie, and then Halliday ends up 00:41:25.639 --> 00:41:28.199 being the anti -Wonka in the end. And things 00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:30.480 happen that really subvert what happens at the 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:32.719 end of Wonka. Exactly, yeah, yeah. For instance, 00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:35.320 the final test is that he has to sign this contract, 00:41:35.500 --> 00:41:37.690 but he doesn't just blindly sign it. You know 00:41:37.690 --> 00:41:40.070 what I mean? No, right, right. And there's this 00:41:40.070 --> 00:41:43.590 whole idea of how you have to be better. You're 00:41:43.590 --> 00:41:46.230 not just going to take the Oasis and do exactly 00:41:46.230 --> 00:41:50.050 what I did. It's not about finding someone who 00:41:50.050 --> 00:41:53.449 will continue the regime exactly the way I constructed 00:41:53.449 --> 00:41:57.349 it and ran it. It's like part of understanding 00:41:57.349 --> 00:41:59.550 the creator is also understanding where the creator 00:41:59.550 --> 00:42:02.809 went wrong and how you can improve on what they 00:42:02.809 --> 00:42:06.210 did and how you can actually push the thing forward. 00:42:07.150 --> 00:42:12.130 that final scene of him in the room with, like, 00:42:12.130 --> 00:42:14.690 Halliday's younger childhood self playing the 00:42:14.690 --> 00:42:17.130 video game, and that room, that last scene in 00:42:17.130 --> 00:42:20.050 the room is, like, amazing. Totally. For lots 00:42:20.050 --> 00:42:23.349 of reasons. But just the whole, like, Wade Watts, 00:42:23.550 --> 00:42:25.590 you were born and raised in the world of The 00:42:25.590 --> 00:42:29.809 Oasis. Like, The Oasis came out in 2025, and 00:42:29.809 --> 00:42:33.869 Wade was born in 2027. And, like... When Wade 00:42:33.869 --> 00:42:36.050 initially starts talking about Halliday in the 00:42:36.050 --> 00:42:37.269 beginning of the movie, he talks about Halliday 00:42:37.269 --> 00:42:40.250 like a god. Like, we all worship this guy. And 00:42:40.250 --> 00:42:42.469 you know what? We worship him because the world 00:42:42.469 --> 00:42:45.329 was such a shitty place, and he gave us a place 00:42:45.329 --> 00:42:48.010 we could go. But, dude, you were born into the 00:42:48.010 --> 00:42:49.929 world of the Oasis. You don't remember the way 00:42:49.929 --> 00:42:52.289 the world was before the Oasis was around. Right. 00:42:52.369 --> 00:42:55.349 You know what I mean? Right. He is like a childhood 00:42:55.349 --> 00:42:59.690 and banal person who's been born and raised in 00:42:59.690 --> 00:43:04.679 the computer game, you know? But there is still 00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:07.420 something in Wade that is special, something 00:43:07.420 --> 00:43:10.550 that drives him. to understanding the creator 00:43:10.550 --> 00:43:14.030 and then he learns all this stuff this isn't 00:43:14.030 --> 00:43:15.889 all stuff that he like kind of understands at 00:43:15.889 --> 00:43:17.469 the beginning of the movie no exactly this whole 00:43:17.469 --> 00:43:20.230 idea of like this whole idea he learns through 00:43:20.230 --> 00:43:22.409 the creator's message and the stuff he's learned 00:43:22.409 --> 00:43:24.949 from the creator like oh maybe we shouldn't be 00:43:24.949 --> 00:43:26.630 playing video games all the time maybe i should 00:43:26.630 --> 00:43:29.349 like connect with this girl and maybe there's 00:43:29.349 --> 00:43:31.309 like more important things to life than being 00:43:31.309 --> 00:43:34.800 like terminally online and shit And then in the 00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:36.860 end, that's like, he's like, no, yeah, you're 00:43:36.860 --> 00:43:38.780 right. You didn't sign the contract. Reality 00:43:38.780 --> 00:43:40.460 is the only place you can get a decent meal. 00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:43.059 And you can shut this thing down anytime you 00:43:43.059 --> 00:43:48.019 want. Go ahead. And then he decides, like, you 00:43:48.019 --> 00:43:50.000 know, they ban the loyalty centers and destroy 00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:53.300 IOI. And then they make sure the Oasis is closed 00:43:53.300 --> 00:43:55.360 on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And, like, you know 00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:57.739 what I mean? Like, they're pushing forward in 00:43:57.739 --> 00:44:01.449 a way. that actually is antagonistic to the creator 00:44:01.449 --> 00:44:04.489 in some degree, but it's like by the wishes of 00:44:04.489 --> 00:44:06.469 the creator, it's like through learning where 00:44:06.469 --> 00:44:09.429 the creator went wrong. And I mean, like you 00:44:09.429 --> 00:44:11.769 could see a message like that in hook, for instance, 00:44:11.849 --> 00:44:13.849 just like the dude connect with your childhood, 00:44:13.889 --> 00:44:17.190 like stop being such a ruthless adult, like just 00:44:17.190 --> 00:44:19.809 like learning through the artwork, some kind 00:44:19.809 --> 00:44:22.010 of important message about how to live or whatever. 00:44:22.230 --> 00:44:25.170 No, totally. Totally. But I think that I think 00:44:25.170 --> 00:44:27.429 that there's there's like between in these first 00:44:27.429 --> 00:44:29.409 two tests, I think there's the idea of like you 00:44:29.409 --> 00:44:31.269 got to look at the creator if you want to understand 00:44:31.269 --> 00:44:33.309 what this test is about. And then the second 00:44:33.309 --> 00:44:35.250 one is like, yeah, well, I mean, you can look 00:44:35.250 --> 00:44:37.469 at the creator for so long, but like you don't 00:44:37.469 --> 00:44:39.090 want to be the creator. You know what I mean? 00:44:39.110 --> 00:44:42.150 It's very important to like to bring something 00:44:42.150 --> 00:44:44.730 beyond this creator thing. The creator himself 00:44:44.730 --> 00:44:47.929 doesn't want to be this guy, you know? And I 00:44:47.929 --> 00:44:50.639 think that, yeah, like the. I think that this 00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:53.320 is a lot about like the creation of art and whatnot. 00:44:53.519 --> 00:44:55.539 Like this, like we talked about nothing new being 00:44:55.539 --> 00:44:58.179 created and that sort of thing. Like if somebody 00:44:58.179 --> 00:44:59.699 is going to carry on this torch, it can't just 00:44:59.699 --> 00:45:01.719 be somebody who's just going to try and be Spielberg. 00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:04.800 Right. That's. And, and if you want to learn 00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:07.820 from somebody that you, you know, so it's a piece 00:45:07.820 --> 00:45:09.480 of art that you admire or whatever. You can't 00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:12.260 just like learn from that by repeating it. Like 00:45:12.260 --> 00:45:15.360 that's, that's creating a copy of something like 00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:18.480 that's. A simulacrum. You don't understand the 00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:22.260 creator or the meaning or like the idea of like 00:45:22.260 --> 00:45:25.840 the heart of this thing. So you're just derivative. 00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:28.719 There's a really good quote by Bloom in The Anxiety 00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:30.619 of Influence where he's talking about how it's 00:45:30.619 --> 00:45:34.599 natural for a young poet to misinterpret. Because 00:45:34.599 --> 00:45:37.280 a poem is a communication deliberately twisted, 00:45:37.420 --> 00:45:40.300 askew, turned about. It's a mistranslation of 00:45:40.300 --> 00:45:44.559 its precursors. And so it's only by misreading 00:45:44.559 --> 00:45:48.579 one another. that you clear imaginative imaginative 00:45:48.579 --> 00:45:50.699 space for yourselves. You know what I mean? And 00:45:50.699 --> 00:45:53.300 he's talking about like interpretations of poetry 00:45:53.300 --> 00:45:54.860 and whatnot. And he says that most so -called 00:45:54.860 --> 00:45:56.699 accurate interpretations are worse than mistakes. 00:45:57.159 --> 00:46:00.400 And that perhaps there's only creative misreadings 00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:03.260 of things. The idea kind of being that like, 00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:07.500 if you understand the work exactly as the person 00:46:07.500 --> 00:46:10.960 intended or the, the, or the way that the culture 00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:13.139 interprets it, whatever the, the, the, there's 00:46:13.139 --> 00:46:15.570 no sort of, there's nothing to take from it. 00:46:15.590 --> 00:46:16.889 There's nothing, there's nowhere to go from it. 00:46:16.909 --> 00:46:19.250 You have to misinterpret in order to be creative. 00:46:19.329 --> 00:46:22.050 You have to bring your own thing. And that's 00:46:22.050 --> 00:46:26.230 how you create a new, a new Genesis, a new, an 00:46:26.230 --> 00:46:29.449 actually new thing, an actually new idea. That's 00:46:29.449 --> 00:46:32.050 not just derivative. That's not simulacrum. Um, 00:46:32.250 --> 00:46:34.469 you know what I mean? And I think that, I think 00:46:34.469 --> 00:46:38.269 that basically this is all about like, analysis 00:46:38.269 --> 00:46:41.329 and understanding things from an analytical point 00:46:41.329 --> 00:46:43.010 of view and whatever and they're like so far 00:46:43.010 --> 00:46:44.670 we've talked about two different ways of analyzing 00:46:44.670 --> 00:46:47.150 art and stuff but in ready player one there's 00:46:47.150 --> 00:46:49.909 there's the line it's and it's not in the book 00:46:49.909 --> 00:46:53.090 um it's a line that's only in the movie um but 00:46:53.090 --> 00:46:54.949 it's some people can read war and peace and come 00:46:54.949 --> 00:46:57.329 away thinking it's a simple adventure story others 00:46:57.329 --> 00:46:59.170 can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper 00:46:59.170 --> 00:47:02.110 and unlock the secrets of the universe and that's 00:47:02.110 --> 00:47:04.429 superman right yeah it's from it's from superman 00:47:04.429 --> 00:47:09.190 the movie yeah um That's a distraction. It doesn't 00:47:09.190 --> 00:47:12.130 matter. Yeah. But it was apparently holiday's 00:47:12.130 --> 00:47:14.349 favorite quote, nowhere in the book, but it's 00:47:14.349 --> 00:47:16.070 very central to the movie in which we're talking 00:47:16.070 --> 00:47:19.710 about a misreading of a source material or looking 00:47:19.710 --> 00:47:22.090 at something that's taking source material. That's 00:47:22.090 --> 00:47:24.869 totally banal, like a, like a chewing gum wrapper 00:47:24.869 --> 00:47:27.949 and trying to put all of these, you know, secrets 00:47:27.949 --> 00:47:31.860 of the universe in there. Sure, yeah, exactly. 00:47:32.139 --> 00:47:35.920 It's specifically like insulting to Ready Player 00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:38.260 One, this line, to put that in there and be like, 00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:41.579 you know, this is a chewing gum wrapper and we're 00:47:41.579 --> 00:47:43.579 going to turn this into the secrets of the universe, 00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:47.280 you know? But yeah, a lot of this brings us to 00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:50.880 the third trial and stuff, which is really where 00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:55.400 we kind of get into the sort of whole political 00:47:55.400 --> 00:47:58.239 sphere in which these creative works are taking 00:47:58.239 --> 00:48:01.389 place and whatnot. Um, so we're talking about 00:48:01.389 --> 00:48:03.909 like, which I, which it's interesting that this 00:48:03.909 --> 00:48:07.349 is the only test that our main characters don't 00:48:07.349 --> 00:48:10.469 figure out. Like they, they beat it. Like Parzival 00:48:10.469 --> 00:48:13.989 plays adventure and beats it. He like executes 00:48:13.989 --> 00:48:17.289 it, but it's actually like the team of holiday 00:48:17.289 --> 00:48:21.250 experts that IOI hires that figures out the third 00:48:21.250 --> 00:48:24.409 test that the game is adventure because it has 00:48:24.409 --> 00:48:28.659 the creator's name hidden. As an Easter egg, 00:48:28.699 --> 00:48:30.159 and it was the first game to ever do that or 00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:32.639 whatever. I just think it's an interesting thing 00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:35.340 that they don't really, like, figure that one 00:48:35.340 --> 00:48:37.940 out. That, like, the corporate entity that has 00:48:37.940 --> 00:48:40.880 all the resources does get that one. Well, they 00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:45.039 don't, though. See, they try adventure. IOI tries 00:48:45.039 --> 00:48:47.699 adventure, but they're playing to win. And it's 00:48:47.699 --> 00:48:50.420 Parzival that understands, no, you don't play 00:48:50.420 --> 00:48:52.920 to win. Like, you play to find the Easter egg. 00:48:52.940 --> 00:48:53.960 That's obviously the thing. No, no, no, you're 00:48:53.960 --> 00:48:55.500 right. You're right. Which is very similar to 00:48:55.500 --> 00:48:57.960 the first trial or whatever, where you go backwards 00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:01.519 and whatever. Exactly. However, they do cut to 00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:06.840 one of the IOI egg experts. The ooologists. Yeah, 00:49:06.860 --> 00:49:11.980 ooologists. They do cut to one of the ooologists 00:49:11.980 --> 00:49:15.199 who... realizes when part of the ball starts 00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:17.039 playing he's like yeah yeah yeah this is like 00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:19.239 you don't play to win like this is what's going 00:49:19.239 --> 00:49:21.500 on it's obviously the easter egg thing and like 00:49:21.500 --> 00:49:23.440 that's why i chose this but they didn't listen 00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:25.800 to my explanation when i passed this up the ladder 00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:27.880 like that girl in the first place is like you 00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:29.099 should do adventure because adventure is the 00:49:29.099 --> 00:49:30.699 first game and they're like fine try adventure 00:49:30.699 --> 00:49:32.340 and then they go and they beat adventure and 00:49:32.340 --> 00:49:34.360 they're like it didn't work next thing it's like 00:49:34.360 --> 00:49:37.579 well that's a very corporate structure you know 00:49:38.819 --> 00:49:41.960 data analysis uh way of going about this you 00:49:41.960 --> 00:49:44.340 know what i mean and it's only like a true person 00:49:44.340 --> 00:49:46.159 who's trying to look at this deeply who's going 00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:47.699 to be like no dude obviously the point is not 00:49:47.699 --> 00:49:49.980 that like i know the creator and i know like 00:49:49.980 --> 00:49:52.840 what this is all about this like it's obviously 00:49:52.840 --> 00:49:54.760 about the name of the creator being in this thing 00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:57.280 but the corporate structure doesn't have an infrastructure 00:49:57.280 --> 00:50:00.619 there that allows for that sort of idea to go 00:50:00.619 --> 00:50:03.489 all the way up the ladder and then happen Whereas 00:50:03.489 --> 00:50:05.550 parts of all, just kind of, no one wouldn't really 00:50:05.550 --> 00:50:07.409 understand it anyway. Well, of course, cause 00:50:07.409 --> 00:50:09.769 he doesn't understand anything. He's, he's just 00:50:09.769 --> 00:50:11.650 like listening to the people in his ear, telling 00:50:11.650 --> 00:50:13.750 him all of these references and things in order 00:50:13.750 --> 00:50:15.550 to pretend that he cares about something that 00:50:15.550 --> 00:50:18.019 he doesn't care at all about. He's just cynically 00:50:18.019 --> 00:50:20.579 cashing in on these things the way that they're 00:50:20.579 --> 00:50:23.320 cynically cashing in on all of these franchises. 00:50:23.420 --> 00:50:26.079 Like any of Spielberg, like, you know, whoever's 00:50:26.079 --> 00:50:28.300 making this new Jurassic Park movie is just somebody 00:50:28.300 --> 00:50:29.980 who's cynically cashing in on something that 00:50:29.980 --> 00:50:32.539 like a real auteur made. And they're, you know, 00:50:32.539 --> 00:50:35.619 seeing how many advertisements you can fit on 00:50:35.619 --> 00:50:37.619 the screen in one second. You know what I mean? 00:50:38.179 --> 00:50:41.780 Yeah. For how bad the, for, I mean, I guess we 00:50:41.780 --> 00:50:43.460 don't really see the world before the Oasis, 00:50:43.500 --> 00:50:44.980 but I'm just going to assume the creation of 00:50:44.980 --> 00:50:47.710 the Oasis is part of the reason. the world has 00:50:47.710 --> 00:50:51.349 gotten so dystopian. Of course, of course. But 00:50:51.349 --> 00:50:53.750 like the Oasis is actually like some attempt 00:50:53.750 --> 00:50:56.889 at like a utopia. Like it's sort of like an open 00:50:56.889 --> 00:50:59.750 source place. There's not a lot of rules. There's 00:50:59.750 --> 00:51:02.250 like blue shells all over the place, artifacts 00:51:02.250 --> 00:51:05.090 that can imbalance power and stuff to really 00:51:05.090 --> 00:51:08.369 keep a corporation like IOI at bay. And it's 00:51:08.369 --> 00:51:13.070 such a like volatile, sometimes cruel economic 00:51:13.070 --> 00:51:16.679 player because like... It's one of the biggest 00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:19.039 forces in the economy and you can literally lose 00:51:19.039 --> 00:51:21.679 everything you have immediately or whatever, 00:51:21.880 --> 00:51:25.420 you know. Totally. It's like brutal, but it's 00:51:25.420 --> 00:51:28.199 fair. It's almost like a Wild West, you know. 00:51:28.219 --> 00:51:31.539 Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, it's an idealistic 00:51:31.539 --> 00:51:34.099 view of the internet, you know what I mean? Yeah, 00:51:34.099 --> 00:51:35.980 yeah. It's the early internet where everything 00:51:35.980 --> 00:51:37.800 was kind of free and not controlled by corporations 00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:42.119 and then slowly it gets sold and now even... 00:51:42.409 --> 00:51:44.489 theoretically like Instagram or something like 00:51:44.489 --> 00:51:45.869 all of these things, like everything is just 00:51:45.869 --> 00:51:48.650 algorithms that are corporately controlled. Everything's 00:51:48.650 --> 00:51:51.170 corporatized now. Yeah. Yeah. I remember when 00:51:51.170 --> 00:51:53.150 the internet wasn't so corporatized and you never 00:51:53.150 --> 00:51:56.409 went to places like Google or YouTube or Facebook 00:51:56.409 --> 00:51:59.110 or whatever, you know, it was like a much more 00:51:59.110 --> 00:52:02.909 weird environment, you know? Totally. Totally. 00:52:03.409 --> 00:52:05.429 But it wasn't necessarily good for you to be 00:52:05.429 --> 00:52:07.489 there and spending a lot of time on it still, 00:52:07.610 --> 00:52:10.170 you know? Right. Right. I think that's true. 00:52:10.489 --> 00:52:12.619 I think that a lot of the people who, you know, 00:52:12.619 --> 00:52:15.800 created it would agree, especially late in their 00:52:15.800 --> 00:52:17.639 lives. You know what I mean? They might have 00:52:17.639 --> 00:52:20.699 regrets about the way things have gone. And I 00:52:20.699 --> 00:52:22.699 think that similarly, I mean, Spielberg is not 00:52:22.699 --> 00:52:24.559 a Silicon Valley guy or whatever. I mean, he's 00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:26.639 been cutting edge for his whole career as was 00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:29.260 Kubrick, but he's not a Silicon Valley guy, but 00:52:29.260 --> 00:52:33.320 he is talking about those things the way he is 00:52:33.320 --> 00:52:35.519 talking about Silicon Valley the same way that 00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:37.619 he's talking about the, uh, the whole film industry. 00:52:37.659 --> 00:52:40.789 Like these are, these are similarly like, big 00:52:40.789 --> 00:52:43.210 bursts of creative energy with unlimited potential 00:52:43.210 --> 00:52:46.730 that then get corporatized and, you know, pasteurized 00:52:46.730 --> 00:52:50.610 and sold back to us as, you know, with diminishing 00:52:50.610 --> 00:52:52.809 returns for a hundred years. You know what I 00:52:52.809 --> 00:52:56.690 mean? Um, and I think that that process, like 00:52:56.690 --> 00:52:59.010 that capitalistic process of the destruction 00:52:59.010 --> 00:53:03.230 of that is like part of, part of Ernest Klein's 00:53:03.230 --> 00:53:05.989 conversation, um, in the book and whatever. Um, 00:53:06.050 --> 00:53:08.730 but his is very much like kind of a Silicon Valley 00:53:08.730 --> 00:53:11.320 metaphor, whereas, Spielberg really starts bringing 00:53:11.320 --> 00:53:14.139 in the film industry side of things. I think 00:53:14.139 --> 00:53:17.039 a lot of this really ties into the creation of 00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:21.219 the blockbuster with Jaws and the kind of death 00:53:21.219 --> 00:53:24.619 of the new Hollywood because of that. And then 00:53:24.619 --> 00:53:26.860 the kind of rise of some of these franchise things 00:53:26.860 --> 00:53:28.960 and all the creativity that went into this when 00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:32.300 they had a generation of true auteurs that could 00:53:32.300 --> 00:53:35.400 work within this structure. that now you're seeing 00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:37.480 a generation of none of that. And like, there's 00:53:37.480 --> 00:53:39.860 like, what do you got as far as Spielberg? Like 00:53:39.860 --> 00:53:42.559 the best we have is like a JJ Abrams. Like that's 00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:45.320 rough. You know what I mean? It's like, and I 00:53:45.320 --> 00:53:47.440 think that what's really interesting is JJ Abrams, 00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:49.599 like he knew Spielberg for a long time and he's 00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:52.420 kind of a little mini Spielberg guy. And, and, 00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:54.559 you know, Spielberg has helped like produced 00:53:54.559 --> 00:53:57.309 his career and blah, blah, blah. But he's never 00:53:57.309 --> 00:53:59.489 doing anything like Spielberg. He kind of feels 00:53:59.489 --> 00:54:01.429 very much like a Nolan, you know what I mean? 00:54:01.469 --> 00:54:03.590 Who's like going in there. Not a Christopher 00:54:03.590 --> 00:54:07.030 Nolan. No, no, no. Like a Nolan Sorrento. A Nolan 00:54:07.030 --> 00:54:09.989 Sorrento. Who's going in there, like when he's 00:54:09.989 --> 00:54:12.699 offering to... get his coffee and stuff when 00:54:12.699 --> 00:54:14.059 you see him actually with holiday. And it's just 00:54:14.059 --> 00:54:16.179 like, Oh, he's just like a little worm. And then 00:54:16.179 --> 00:54:18.320 now that holiday is gone, it's like, Oh, he's, 00:54:18.320 --> 00:54:20.619 he's trying to take over this guy's legacy and 00:54:20.619 --> 00:54:23.619 like, you know what I mean? Be the big man. That's 00:54:23.619 --> 00:54:25.400 true. Yeah. You're right. He's, he's giving him 00:54:25.400 --> 00:54:28.739 coffee and trying to pitch the idea of having 00:54:28.739 --> 00:54:31.860 like different. tiers like payment tiers and 00:54:31.860 --> 00:54:34.420 stuff like that exactly exactly different ways 00:54:34.420 --> 00:54:37.440 to sell out yeah basically holiday has no interest 00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:39.139 in that and whatever but like these are the guys 00:54:39.139 --> 00:54:41.320 who take over afterwards if there's nobody else 00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:44.460 you know what i mean these guys that you never 00:54:44.460 --> 00:54:46.539 thought were threatening you're just we're little 00:54:46.539 --> 00:54:49.239 sniveling losers this is i mean this is also 00:54:49.239 --> 00:54:51.119 just like the rise of fascism stuff you know 00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:53.019 i mean that's what eichmann is is somebody who 00:54:53.019 --> 00:54:55.880 like yeah you know Would work for you. It would 00:54:55.880 --> 00:54:57.460 get you your coffee and whatever. And then as 00:54:57.460 --> 00:54:59.280 soon as there's the opportunity, you'll like 00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:01.539 have you and your family killed, you know, so 00:55:01.539 --> 00:55:05.239 that he can get a slightly better job. But yeah, 00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:09.239 Nolan is a total Aikman. Yeah. It's a super dystopian 00:55:09.239 --> 00:55:12.340 world. Um, it's actually like insanely bleak 00:55:12.340 --> 00:55:14.300 ready player one, even though it has like a really 00:55:14.300 --> 00:55:17.880 fun feeling to it. Yeah. I mean like, like the 00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:20.880 way the movie opens, like. The first shot is, 00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:23.059 like, of the stacks, you know, where Wade Watts 00:55:23.059 --> 00:55:25.320 lives. And, like, the shot almost looks black 00:55:25.320 --> 00:55:27.159 and white. Like, there's no color in the world. 00:55:27.239 --> 00:55:30.320 It's very, like, dead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's 00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:33.119 also pretty grainy. And there's, like, it's grainy. 00:55:33.880 --> 00:55:35.079 In the real world, there's often a lot of grainy. 00:55:35.079 --> 00:55:36.400 Yeah, so it's film grainy in the real world. 00:55:36.619 --> 00:55:39.079 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think all the real world 00:55:39.079 --> 00:55:40.880 stuff is still shot in film and stuff. And then 00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:43.739 all the stuff in the Oasis is, like. avatar where 00:55:43.739 --> 00:55:47.260 they have um vr headsets on and they can see 00:55:47.260 --> 00:55:49.519 the entire digital set in front of them and they're 00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:51.760 like mapping out the shots that way or whatever 00:55:51.760 --> 00:55:54.739 but yeah and then like the movie opens with jump 00:55:54.739 --> 00:55:57.239 by van halen it's like really upbeat but it's 00:55:57.239 --> 00:55:59.280 also like really on point with the themes of 00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:02.260 the movie about like a leap of faith and yeah 00:56:02.260 --> 00:56:04.079 but also it's kind of depressing it's also like 00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:06.780 yo it's this kid at the top of this uh tower 00:56:06.780 --> 00:56:10.800 and it's just like jump jump Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 00:56:11.059 --> 00:56:13.039 And then, like, on the screen, there's a whole 00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:16.000 thing about, like, pain is pleasure. Like, feel 00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:18.579 every hit and stuff. Yeah, it's like, get ready 00:56:18.579 --> 00:56:22.760 for the feel of real. The feel of real. Yeah, 00:56:22.920 --> 00:56:24.579 it's a masochistic society. And then there's, 00:56:24.579 --> 00:56:26.420 like, I Hate Myself for Loving You is playing 00:56:26.420 --> 00:56:28.920 over the whole introduction of Halliday in the 00:56:28.920 --> 00:56:32.519 Oasis. Yeah, yeah. And then as he's going down, 00:56:32.579 --> 00:56:34.360 the whole opening sequence, almost everybody 00:56:34.360 --> 00:56:37.769 you see... um in that opening sequence with the 00:56:37.769 --> 00:56:39.829 headset on they're all doing physical activities 00:56:39.829 --> 00:56:43.909 they're like kickboxing or like riding a surfboard 00:56:43.909 --> 00:56:46.269 or like they're like one of them's a pole dancer 00:56:46.269 --> 00:56:48.849 which is one of the weird subtle erotic elements 00:56:48.849 --> 00:56:51.989 and even like that's that's also weird too like 00:56:51.989 --> 00:56:54.090 when when um this is also part of the opening 00:56:54.090 --> 00:56:56.030 sequence like when he first goes into the oasis 00:56:56.030 --> 00:56:59.010 and there's that really crazy like zoom that's 00:56:59.010 --> 00:57:00.989 just like going through all the different worlds 00:57:00.989 --> 00:57:04.250 and stuff like that How, like, there's nothing 00:57:04.250 --> 00:57:07.590 there that's actually novel. Like, it's all stuff 00:57:07.590 --> 00:57:09.909 you could do in the real world, except it's, 00:57:09.929 --> 00:57:13.309 like, turned on its head in some weird AI way. 00:57:13.409 --> 00:57:15.369 Like, you can ski, but you can do it down the 00:57:15.369 --> 00:57:17.449 pyramids because there's snow on them. Right, 00:57:17.670 --> 00:57:19.690 right, right. You can climb a mountain, but it's 00:57:19.690 --> 00:57:23.050 with Batman. And you can... hand glide but it's 00:57:23.050 --> 00:57:26.849 through a crazy storm and like you can play polo 00:57:26.849 --> 00:57:28.989 but it's on ice and whatever like it's all like 00:57:28.989 --> 00:57:31.869 really you can gamble and you can go have sex 00:57:31.869 --> 00:57:34.409 in this uh you know yeah in this brothel or whatever 00:57:34.409 --> 00:57:36.030 like there's nothing there that's like novel 00:57:36.030 --> 00:57:37.409 or like something you couldn't do in the real 00:57:37.409 --> 00:57:40.730 world right opening sequence it's all like really 00:57:40.730 --> 00:57:43.849 like weirdly bleak and kind of just like yeah 00:57:43.849 --> 00:57:46.670 i mean everybody's substituting vices like yeah 00:57:46.670 --> 00:57:49.289 yeah it's just a simulacrum of like las vegas 00:57:49.289 --> 00:57:51.610 you know what i mean there's hookers over here 00:57:51.610 --> 00:57:54.230 there's gambling over here there's you know there's 00:57:54.230 --> 00:57:57.170 an indoor skiing rink and then there's then it 00:57:57.170 --> 00:57:59.030 like goes to basically planet doom which is just 00:57:59.030 --> 00:58:02.280 like endless death match But whatever, man. It's 00:58:02.280 --> 00:58:06.440 bleak. The idea that the only real powers in 00:58:06.440 --> 00:58:09.099 the world are Gregarious Games, which is also 00:58:09.099 --> 00:58:12.820 a very ironic name for the company, and IOI. 00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:16.260 That's it. There's no talk of governments. There's 00:58:16.260 --> 00:58:19.579 no talk of this is the power. These corporations 00:58:19.579 --> 00:58:22.519 control everything. There are no nations. There 00:58:22.519 --> 00:58:26.590 are no peoples. There's only the dollar. Yeah, 00:58:26.670 --> 00:58:27.989 there are no nations, there are no peoples. There's 00:58:27.989 --> 00:58:31.590 only IOI and gregarious games, and the entire 00:58:31.590 --> 00:58:34.969 economy is based on what happens in the Oasis. 00:58:35.289 --> 00:58:39.190 Right. And, yeah, you can actually lose all your 00:58:39.190 --> 00:58:42.389 shit or become insanely wealthy or whatever it 00:58:42.389 --> 00:58:45.570 is. It's like a total gamble. Totally. And, obviously, 00:58:45.650 --> 00:58:48.230 most people are losing, and they have to live 00:58:48.230 --> 00:58:51.449 in these crazy -ass towers of shipping containers. 00:58:52.190 --> 00:58:54.590 stacked on one another. It almost looks like 00:58:54.590 --> 00:58:58.530 the Elysian. You know what I mean? It's overcrowding. 00:58:58.650 --> 00:59:03.710 It's overcrowding. And the loyalty centers are 00:59:03.710 --> 00:59:06.050 just like slavery centers and whatever. I don't 00:59:06.050 --> 00:59:10.469 know. That shit's all... It's weird just how 00:59:10.469 --> 00:59:13.429 dark and bleak it is, but it just comes off as 00:59:13.429 --> 00:59:17.780 a fun adventure movie. The fact that they just 00:59:17.780 --> 00:59:20.380 send drones to attach bombs to his aunt's house 00:59:20.380 --> 00:59:24.059 or whatever. And there will be no consequences 00:59:24.059 --> 00:59:26.980 for them, unless Parzival survives, and then 00:59:26.980 --> 00:59:30.159 he will have the power. But nothing changes until 00:59:30.159 --> 00:59:32.519 he actually gets the egg. You know what I mean? 00:59:32.699 --> 00:59:36.480 Nobody's actually protecting him until he's actually 00:59:36.480 --> 00:59:38.900 the richest person in the world. There's no power 00:59:38.900 --> 00:59:41.340 structure that's like, well, this is wrong. Because 00:59:41.340 --> 00:59:44.199 it's not wrong if the other guys win. You know? 00:59:44.829 --> 00:59:47.050 Killing Parzival is perfectly fine if IOI wins. 00:59:47.309 --> 00:59:51.449 Nobody's ever going to go into that. No cops 00:59:51.449 --> 00:59:54.730 are going to investigate the murder of Parzival's 00:59:54.730 --> 00:59:57.869 family. Yeah, exactly. Because they control the 00:59:57.869 --> 00:59:59.550 government. They control everything. And it's 00:59:59.550 --> 01:00:02.210 only once Parzival controls everything that then 01:00:02.210 --> 01:00:05.590 the lawyers show up and then finally there are 01:00:05.590 --> 01:00:08.789 cops there to stop the guy with the gun. Those 01:00:08.789 --> 01:00:11.409 cops weren't going to show up if he didn't win. 01:00:11.590 --> 01:00:13.980 That's the whole... They were watching, too. 01:00:14.119 --> 01:00:15.320 They were like, which one are we supposed to 01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:21.780 protect? Yeah, exactly. Cops show up for once 01:00:21.780 --> 01:00:23.559 at the end of the movie as if there's a government. 01:00:24.119 --> 01:00:27.039 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And there is for like 01:00:27.039 --> 01:00:29.079 the one person in the world who has all of the 01:00:29.079 --> 01:00:31.079 money. There's there's, you know, plenty of protection 01:00:31.079 --> 01:00:35.719 for you. Yeah. But yeah, it's just survival of 01:00:35.719 --> 01:00:38.800 the strongest. But I think that that's what's 01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:40.840 so interesting about this third challenge. is 01:00:40.840 --> 01:00:44.159 it's dealing with this whole sort of thing where 01:00:44.159 --> 01:00:46.280 it's, yeah, it's still about, it's kind of the 01:00:46.280 --> 01:00:47.539 first challenge again. It's still about kind 01:00:47.539 --> 01:00:49.380 of understanding that this is about the creator 01:00:49.380 --> 01:00:52.320 and finding the Easter egg that reveals the name 01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:54.659 of the creator. That's like the whole thing has 01:00:54.659 --> 01:00:57.480 all been about this creator thing. But a lot 01:00:57.480 --> 01:00:58.860 of what the third challenge is about is like 01:00:58.860 --> 01:01:03.400 dealing with the battle against IOI to like actually 01:01:03.400 --> 01:01:05.099 win this thing. It's about dealing with the whole 01:01:05.099 --> 01:01:07.159 power structure of like being one person against 01:01:07.159 --> 01:01:09.659 this whole giant system and kind of. Totally, 01:01:09.760 --> 01:01:13.059 yeah. I don't know. And the need to band together 01:01:13.059 --> 01:01:14.780 to defeat that system. That's something that's 01:01:14.780 --> 01:01:18.679 really underlined by the ending of the movie, 01:01:18.760 --> 01:01:21.440 where Parzival could not do this on his own. 01:01:21.900 --> 01:01:24.360 There's no possibility of an individual to do 01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:27.000 this on their own. It's very similar to like 01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:31.239 Wachowski stories, you know, about the individual 01:01:31.239 --> 01:01:33.340 and the corporation and making art within it 01:01:33.340 --> 01:01:35.599 and all that kind of stuff. Totally. Totally. 01:01:36.260 --> 01:01:38.920 Like Speed Racer and whatever. No, absolutely. 01:01:40.300 --> 01:01:43.039 But I think I think but I think this one brings 01:01:43.039 --> 01:01:45.559 that that filmmaking dimension to it, I think. 01:01:45.559 --> 01:01:47.820 And the history specifically of Spielberg and 01:01:47.820 --> 01:01:50.159 specifically of Kubrick, who were like, you know, 01:01:50.159 --> 01:01:52.940 really good friends and have a very specific 01:01:52.940 --> 01:01:56.800 type of idea of what this Easter egg is, which 01:01:56.800 --> 01:01:58.460 is what the second sort of challenge is assessing. 01:01:58.579 --> 01:02:00.840 And I think that I think that we kind of didn't 01:02:00.840 --> 01:02:02.920 really touch on this enough in the second challenge. 01:02:02.940 --> 01:02:05.840 But I think that like these are two guys who 01:02:05.840 --> 01:02:10.480 are very different than a lot like. So like when 01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:12.139 this movie came out, there was actually like 01:02:12.139 --> 01:02:15.579 a documentary released on HBO about Spielberg. 01:02:15.679 --> 01:02:18.380 It was just called Spielberg. And it's kind of 01:02:18.380 --> 01:02:20.460 about Spielberg's childhood and life and how 01:02:20.460 --> 01:02:22.980 his career and whatever. And Spielberg is like 01:02:22.980 --> 01:02:26.039 generally been pretty, you know, secretive about 01:02:26.039 --> 01:02:29.039 a lot of his life and stuff up until this Ready 01:02:29.039 --> 01:02:32.110 Player One documentary came out. And I think 01:02:32.110 --> 01:02:33.550 that it's interesting that in this movie, we 01:02:33.550 --> 01:02:35.849 kind of go into the memory archives of Halliday 01:02:35.849 --> 01:02:38.090 and we look at his archives and we find that 01:02:38.090 --> 01:02:40.010 there's something missing from the archives. 01:02:40.190 --> 01:02:42.809 That's part of the thing in the second challenge. 01:02:44.030 --> 01:02:46.869 Oh, that there's only one mention of Kira, you 01:02:46.869 --> 01:02:49.489 mean? There's only one mention of Kira in this 01:02:49.489 --> 01:02:51.809 whole archive that she's been essentially erased. 01:02:53.110 --> 01:02:54.949 And I think that what's really interesting is 01:02:54.949 --> 01:02:56.469 when I looked at this Spielberg documentary. 01:02:57.280 --> 01:03:00.719 there was not one reference to Stanley or actually, 01:03:00.760 --> 01:03:02.239 I think there was one, there was one reference 01:03:02.239 --> 01:03:04.599 to Stanley Kubrick. And I think it was him talking 01:03:04.599 --> 01:03:09.559 about how he was trying to outdo 2001 with, uh, 01:03:09.780 --> 01:03:11.900 close encounters of the third kind, which is 01:03:11.900 --> 01:03:14.469 an interesting. Interesting conversation. Um, 01:03:14.730 --> 01:03:17.610 but that's the only reference to Kubrick in the 01:03:17.610 --> 01:03:20.530 entire documentary where he and Kubrick were, 01:03:20.650 --> 01:03:24.389 you know, they had a very long term, uh, friendship, 01:03:24.469 --> 01:03:27.889 um, starting way back on the shining set is when, 01:03:27.929 --> 01:03:31.889 when they met. Um, he was on going to that, um, 01:03:32.050 --> 01:03:37.929 studio lot to try and secure the lot for Indiana 01:03:37.929 --> 01:03:41.409 Jones, the second one. Um, Temple of Doom. Yeah, 01:03:41.969 --> 01:03:45.969 Temple of Doom. So basically he met Kubrick on 01:03:45.969 --> 01:03:48.710 that set and during The Shining they became friends 01:03:48.710 --> 01:03:52.050 and then the set burned down and he took longer 01:03:52.050 --> 01:03:54.050 and it became a problem for Spielberg. But they 01:03:54.050 --> 01:03:55.449 became friends and they were friends for a long 01:03:55.449 --> 01:03:58.190 time and then eventually Spielberg even made 01:03:58.190 --> 01:04:02.630 AI, took Kubrick's project and made it himself 01:04:02.630 --> 01:04:07.809 after his death. one of his very few like speeches 01:04:07.809 --> 01:04:10.690 he made at the academy awards was like in the, 01:04:10.690 --> 01:04:14.110 in memoriam for Kubrick and stuff. Um, and during 01:04:14.110 --> 01:04:17.030 that, like he discusses, you know, how the studio 01:04:17.030 --> 01:04:19.889 should not cut eyes wide shut and in any way 01:04:19.889 --> 01:04:21.369 that Kubrick would not have been happy with and 01:04:21.369 --> 01:04:24.010 whatever he's, you know, he's very strongly on 01:04:24.010 --> 01:04:26.050 Kubrick side and he always has been, he's always 01:04:26.050 --> 01:04:28.389 really cared about him. He's on the special features 01:04:28.389 --> 01:04:31.190 of like Kubrick DVDs, even though like he doesn't 01:04:31.190 --> 01:04:33.530 have any special features on any of his own DVDs. 01:04:33.750 --> 01:04:37.139 Like he's, he's kind of like one of Kubrick's 01:04:37.139 --> 01:04:39.880 greatest like supporters in the, in the culture 01:04:39.880 --> 01:04:41.440 and stuff. And they both like supported each 01:04:41.440 --> 01:04:42.800 other for many years, had long conversations 01:04:42.800 --> 01:04:45.539 on the phone every like month or maybe it was 01:04:45.539 --> 01:04:48.460 every week or something. Um, but they were, they 01:04:48.460 --> 01:04:51.119 were very close friends and collaborators. Um, 01:04:51.219 --> 01:04:52.699 and I thought that it was interesting that like 01:04:52.699 --> 01:04:55.179 this documentary didn't mention any of that. 01:04:55.460 --> 01:04:58.579 Um, however, in this movie, like that came out 01:04:58.579 --> 01:05:01.000 at the same time, like Kubrick is super, super, 01:05:01.079 --> 01:05:03.920 you know, He's central to the, to the whole kind 01:05:03.920 --> 01:05:06.099 of concept of this very present, not just in 01:05:06.099 --> 01:05:08.039 the shining scene, but all throughout it. Yeah, 01:05:08.079 --> 01:05:10.679 exactly. Exactly. And I think that it's kind 01:05:10.679 --> 01:05:12.760 of like Kira, like the one thing that's kind 01:05:12.760 --> 01:05:15.719 of not mentioned in this is kind of the key and 01:05:15.719 --> 01:05:19.949 the key in this case in, in this. test that is 01:05:19.949 --> 01:05:22.190 based around finding the one thing that's missing 01:05:22.190 --> 01:05:24.510 is Kubrick, which is also the one thing that 01:05:24.510 --> 01:05:26.670 was missing in this documentary that is like 01:05:26.670 --> 01:05:28.949 the memory archives that existed at the time. 01:05:28.969 --> 01:05:30.929 Like, you know what I mean? So there are all 01:05:30.929 --> 01:05:32.710 these weird synchronicities, I think, that really 01:05:32.710 --> 01:05:35.559 line up and like feel intentional. And at the 01:05:35.559 --> 01:05:37.659 same time, we were talking about like, you know, 01:05:37.679 --> 01:05:41.880 misinterpreting Kubrick and taking The Shining 01:05:41.880 --> 01:05:44.059 and putting zombies in it and stuff, but misinterpreting 01:05:44.059 --> 01:05:45.699 on purpose in order to do something different 01:05:45.699 --> 01:05:47.400 and do something that maybe Kubrick would have 01:05:47.400 --> 01:05:48.900 done. You know what I mean? Not something that 01:05:48.900 --> 01:05:52.460 is super respectful of Kubrick, but something 01:05:52.460 --> 01:05:54.579 that's disrespectful of Kubrick in a respectful 01:05:54.579 --> 01:05:56.579 way or something. You know what I mean? Something 01:05:56.579 --> 01:05:59.199 that knows how to take influence, but then like 01:05:59.199 --> 01:06:03.570 turn away from it at the right point. You know, 01:06:03.570 --> 01:06:05.849 that could be the way you think about him dealing 01:06:05.849 --> 01:06:07.349 with Ernest Cline, too, where it's like, oh, 01:06:07.389 --> 01:06:08.590 well, this is a good idea and I'm turning away 01:06:08.590 --> 01:06:10.190 at the right point. But I think it's different. 01:06:10.230 --> 01:06:12.889 I think that Kubrick is really kind of somebody 01:06:12.889 --> 01:06:15.750 he looks up to, whereas Ernest Cline is somebody 01:06:15.750 --> 01:06:19.550 he looks down on. Yeah. And I think that's, you 01:06:19.550 --> 01:06:22.389 know, part of the thing. So I think that Kubrick 01:06:22.389 --> 01:06:24.949 connection is like super kind of important specifically 01:06:24.949 --> 01:06:28.150 because Kubrick is the guy in the culture who 01:06:28.150 --> 01:06:31.469 people have like conspiracy theories about his 01:06:31.469 --> 01:06:33.889 movies. You know what I mean? Like when we have 01:06:33.889 --> 01:06:36.510 this conception of an Easter egg, not as just 01:06:36.510 --> 01:06:38.750 like a reference to something like, Ooh, I know 01:06:38.750 --> 01:06:42.070 that this X man did this at that thing. So that's 01:06:42.070 --> 01:06:45.150 such a cool reference. Like instead, like the, 01:06:45.250 --> 01:06:48.199 the idea in. You know, the conspiracy theory 01:06:48.199 --> 01:06:50.639 analyses of Kubrick movies is like, oh, well, 01:06:50.719 --> 01:06:53.179 it's the fact that this is this number here. 01:06:53.280 --> 01:06:56.039 This number shows that like this is actually 01:06:56.039 --> 01:06:57.619 the opposite or something. You know what I mean? 01:06:57.699 --> 01:07:01.340 There's a book on a shelf in Clockwork Orange 01:07:01.340 --> 01:07:04.559 that reveals that the whole movie is actually 01:07:04.559 --> 01:07:06.840 the opposite of what it pretended to be or something. 01:07:06.940 --> 01:07:09.880 You know what I mean? There's a lot of that sort 01:07:09.880 --> 01:07:11.539 of analysis of Kubrick movies. And that's the 01:07:11.539 --> 01:07:12.920 type of thing that people say, ah, that's a conspiracy 01:07:12.920 --> 01:07:14.860 theory. You know, why would that sort of thing 01:07:14.860 --> 01:07:18.340 matter? But this movie, specifically in the second 01:07:18.340 --> 01:07:21.179 challenge, like is sort of underlining. It's 01:07:21.179 --> 01:07:25.539 like that is a legitimate analysis. You know 01:07:25.539 --> 01:07:27.719 what I mean? It's legitimizing that sort of Kubrickian 01:07:27.719 --> 01:07:32.920 concept of the Easter egg as like a hidden key 01:07:32.920 --> 01:07:37.519 or a hidden message that decodes. Opens up a 01:07:37.519 --> 01:07:40.860 conspiracy. Yeah. Yeah. And part of that's about 01:07:40.860 --> 01:07:42.500 showing the hidden hand, showing the conspiracy, 01:07:42.760 --> 01:07:45.519 because it is a conspiracy. because it is a movie. 01:07:45.920 --> 01:07:48.739 So I think that's all kind of a really important 01:07:48.739 --> 01:07:51.119 part of that second challenge, basically, is 01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:54.119 this real connection to Kubrick, to Kubrickian 01:07:54.119 --> 01:07:57.699 analysis and to that conspiracy theory analysis, 01:07:57.900 --> 01:08:00.840 that that is a far more legitimate way of sort 01:08:00.840 --> 01:08:03.900 of looking at art than just like noticing all 01:08:03.900 --> 01:08:06.699 of the facts about the way that this character 01:08:06.699 --> 01:08:08.559 was there and then this character was there and 01:08:08.559 --> 01:08:10.460 that was in this other franchise. And it's so 01:08:10.460 --> 01:08:12.119 cool. There was a crossover. It's like, no, no, 01:08:12.139 --> 01:08:15.190 no, that's not. It's kind of about like coming 01:08:15.190 --> 01:08:18.310 to it and misinterpreting it in your own way 01:08:18.310 --> 01:08:20.170 or interpreting it in the right way. You know 01:08:20.170 --> 01:08:23.189 what I mean? As opposed to just this sort of 01:08:23.189 --> 01:08:24.989 factual analysis thing. And so I think that's 01:08:24.989 --> 01:08:26.569 part of what's interesting when we go into the 01:08:26.569 --> 01:08:29.010 third challenge and it becomes about this sort 01:08:29.010 --> 01:08:31.970 of corporate understanding of this art and the 01:08:31.970 --> 01:08:34.189 way that they deal with the art. You know what 01:08:34.189 --> 01:08:37.550 I mean? They're trying to win the game and get 01:08:37.550 --> 01:08:39.590 to the end. You know what I mean? And finish 01:08:39.590 --> 01:08:41.689 it as fast as possible to win and blah, blah, 01:08:41.770 --> 01:08:44.789 blah. Whereas the whole point of adventure is 01:08:44.789 --> 01:08:46.789 it's not about winning. It's just about playing 01:08:46.789 --> 01:08:49.250 and going and finding, playing it long enough 01:08:49.250 --> 01:08:51.590 that you find this hidden room that shows you 01:08:51.590 --> 01:08:54.229 this thing. You know what I mean? It's not about 01:08:54.229 --> 01:08:56.430 just getting to the end. Yeah. And I mean, like 01:08:56.430 --> 01:08:58.510 when you, when you talk about fan culture, sometimes 01:08:58.510 --> 01:09:00.590 you're talking about people who are like rabid 01:09:00.590 --> 01:09:03.970 media junkies. Like they're just trying to collect 01:09:03.970 --> 01:09:06.510 them all essentially, or like watch as many things 01:09:06.510 --> 01:09:08.890 as possible or collect as many toys as possible. 01:09:09.289 --> 01:09:12.960 And it might not be about like, watching the 01:09:12.960 --> 01:09:16.579 same thing over and over and over again until 01:09:16.579 --> 01:09:20.720 you find the secret meaning of it imagine who 01:09:20.720 --> 01:09:22.920 the first person was who found that easter egg 01:09:22.920 --> 01:09:26.619 and adventure who like crawled along those walls 01:09:26.619 --> 01:09:29.140 until they found some weird random object they 01:09:29.140 --> 01:09:30.539 could grab and then they had to figure out to 01:09:30.539 --> 01:09:32.819 bring it back to like the beginning of the game 01:09:32.819 --> 01:09:35.920 right and past the starting point that's like 01:09:35.920 --> 01:09:38.819 a really crazy thing to figure out like you'd 01:09:38.819 --> 01:09:42.870 have to just be like like playing that shit like 01:09:42.870 --> 01:09:45.609 religiously. Yeah. Like trying to know every 01:09:45.609 --> 01:09:48.710 single thing that's actually really like fond 01:09:48.710 --> 01:09:50.609 and attractive to you. You know what I mean? 01:09:50.630 --> 01:09:53.270 Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a weird type 01:09:53.270 --> 01:09:56.229 of person that would do that, but it's also a 01:09:56.229 --> 01:09:58.630 weird type of person who would make a video game 01:09:58.630 --> 01:10:01.470 in the, at that time. You know what I mean? Like, 01:10:01.529 --> 01:10:04.210 and that creator and that type of person who 01:10:04.210 --> 01:10:06.390 would find that they are the ones who are connected 01:10:06.390 --> 01:10:07.949 to each other. You know what I mean? There's 01:10:07.949 --> 01:10:09.810 this corporate entity in between them. That is 01:10:09.810 --> 01:10:13.350 the reason. that his name is there is because 01:10:13.350 --> 01:10:16.550 there were no credits on those games at that 01:10:16.550 --> 01:10:20.930 point. So he had to hide it in there. And it 01:10:20.930 --> 01:10:23.289 was him beating the corporation that was releasing 01:10:23.289 --> 01:10:25.369 this game in order to connect with the audience 01:10:25.369 --> 01:10:27.970 through this Easter egg that reveals himself 01:10:27.970 --> 01:10:30.670 to this audience. You know what I mean? Absolutely. 01:10:31.350 --> 01:10:33.489 It'd be kind of like if you told Warner Brothers 01:10:33.489 --> 01:10:37.649 you were trying to make a sci -fi epic about 01:10:37.649 --> 01:10:41.439 trans people. They'd be like, no, but that's 01:10:41.439 --> 01:10:43.779 kind of what the Matrix is, you know? Right, 01:10:43.779 --> 01:10:45.279 right. The Matrix is a lot of things, but like 01:10:45.279 --> 01:10:47.560 just the hidden messages of things, like if the 01:10:47.560 --> 01:10:49.479 suits knew about what you're really expressing, 01:10:49.560 --> 01:10:51.840 they wouldn't like fund it, you know? Exactly. 01:10:51.880 --> 01:10:53.279 I mean, we talked about this even with the Planet 01:10:53.279 --> 01:10:56.300 of the Apes. Yeah, exactly. With the original 01:10:56.300 --> 01:10:58.760 Planet of the Apes, there was the producer who 01:10:58.760 --> 01:11:00.560 was just like, I didn't think there was any political 01:11:00.560 --> 01:11:02.119 messaging in there at all. I didn't think it 01:11:02.119 --> 01:11:03.960 had anything to do. I thought that the, you know, 01:11:03.960 --> 01:11:08.800 the end was just a cool image. nobody under you 01:11:08.800 --> 01:11:10.539 thought that but like that's great and that's 01:11:10.539 --> 01:11:13.319 a nolan sorrento you know what i mean um yeah 01:11:13.319 --> 01:11:15.359 exactly somebody who's just playing for the end 01:11:15.359 --> 01:11:17.020 or whatever and doesn't understand the essence 01:11:17.020 --> 01:11:18.600 of the thing doesn't understand why they chose 01:11:18.600 --> 01:11:21.399 to do adventure like there's no i don't know 01:11:21.399 --> 01:11:24.439 exactly that i think is is what's important uh 01:11:24.439 --> 01:11:27.399 and i think that kind of That's a lot of that's 01:11:27.399 --> 01:11:29.420 already sort of there in the second challenge. 01:11:29.640 --> 01:11:31.859 Um, but it's, it, you go through it in the third 01:11:31.859 --> 01:11:34.119 challenge and it's real world kind of this battle 01:11:34.119 --> 01:11:36.579 between the corporation and the people and all 01:11:36.579 --> 01:11:39.800 that stuff. Um, but then it all, then it all 01:11:39.800 --> 01:11:41.739 does turn into this weird Willy Wonka thing. 01:11:41.739 --> 01:11:44.460 And it's kind of like after the, the ending of 01:11:44.460 --> 01:11:47.899 that second challenge, like it's after the ending 01:11:47.899 --> 01:11:49.359 of that conversation, we have kind of another 01:11:49.359 --> 01:11:52.479 conversation. Um, and I think that's really interesting 01:11:52.479 --> 01:11:55.449 because. Yeah, like we said, Willy Wonka was 01:11:55.449 --> 01:11:58.989 about a fucking evil dude who manipulates a kid 01:11:58.989 --> 01:12:02.390 into being exactly like him. Yeah. This is really 01:12:02.390 --> 01:12:04.550 taking steps to be like, no, no, no, dude, don't 01:12:04.550 --> 01:12:08.750 be like me. Have the confidence to be your own 01:12:08.750 --> 01:12:10.770 thing, because I was my own thing, and that's 01:12:10.770 --> 01:12:13.430 why this is good. And you don't want to have 01:12:13.430 --> 01:12:15.329 my weaknesses. You want to have my strengths. 01:12:15.470 --> 01:12:18.449 You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe 01:12:18.449 --> 01:12:20.189 not that's why this was good, but that's why 01:12:20.189 --> 01:12:21.890 this was novel. That's why this was special. 01:12:22.409 --> 01:12:24.310 And different. Right. Or whatever. That's why 01:12:24.310 --> 01:12:25.630 it was original. Why it just made an impact. 01:12:26.050 --> 01:12:29.670 Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Because he accepts that 01:12:29.670 --> 01:12:32.189 it might not have been good. Right. That it might 01:12:32.189 --> 01:12:34.789 not have been good that this was created. That 01:12:34.789 --> 01:12:37.210 it like completely upended the world economy. 01:12:37.430 --> 01:12:39.189 That like it made everyone terminally online. 01:12:39.770 --> 01:12:42.489 That it created like a fascist organization that 01:12:42.489 --> 01:12:44.270 was trying to like take over their power and 01:12:44.270 --> 01:12:47.239 enslave. like, a generation of people because 01:12:47.239 --> 01:12:49.619 they went into debt playing on the Oasis. Like, 01:12:49.699 --> 01:12:53.239 it's bad. It's not a good thing he created. Yeah. 01:12:53.300 --> 01:12:55.899 And that, I think, is very much what Spielberg's 01:12:55.899 --> 01:12:57.899 thinking when he's looking at the Marvel Cinematic 01:12:57.899 --> 01:13:00.140 Universe. And he's like, I made fucking Jaws 01:13:00.140 --> 01:13:02.659 to talk about Vietnam and fucking generations 01:13:02.659 --> 01:13:06.439 and trauma. And instead, like, we're watching 01:13:06.439 --> 01:13:09.619 what? Like, some fucking bullshit about, like, 01:13:09.619 --> 01:13:12.460 Wolverine versus Deadpool? Like, what are we 01:13:12.460 --> 01:13:14.880 doing? You know what I mean? And this is not 01:13:14.880 --> 01:13:16.840 the essence. This is not creating a thing. This 01:13:16.840 --> 01:13:19.520 is like ready player one bullshit. It's like 01:13:19.520 --> 01:13:22.199 what no one says. Yeah. It's a, it's a meta IP, 01:13:22.359 --> 01:13:25.579 like Ouroboros joke thing. That's just like, 01:13:25.699 --> 01:13:28.479 yeah, I think this was really interesting. It's 01:13:28.479 --> 01:13:31.859 like, uh, Zach Penn wrote another movie called, 01:13:31.939 --> 01:13:34.779 uh, uh, what, what is it? What is it called? 01:13:35.100 --> 01:13:39.039 Free guy. Yeah. Free guy, free guy, which is 01:13:39.039 --> 01:13:41.640 like almost the exact same story as ready player 01:13:41.640 --> 01:13:44.420 one. It's like, I mean, It's about a character 01:13:44.420 --> 01:13:48.220 in a game who discovers that he's a person or 01:13:48.220 --> 01:13:50.159 something, and then he comes to self. But it's 01:13:50.159 --> 01:13:52.800 almost the exact same movie, but it's fucking 01:13:52.800 --> 01:13:54.760 terrible. I've never seen it, but he's an NPC, 01:13:55.119 --> 01:13:59.119 right? Yeah, he's an NPC who then has an awakening 01:13:59.119 --> 01:14:02.159 and becomes not an NPC. Very much just like the 01:14:02.159 --> 01:14:05.199 characters in this movie, right? Parzival is 01:14:05.199 --> 01:14:07.600 essentially an NPC in the beginning, and through 01:14:07.600 --> 01:14:10.899 these trials, he realizes how to become an actual 01:14:10.899 --> 01:14:14.789 human being. Um, this like literally he's a, 01:14:14.810 --> 01:14:18.069 he's a program and whatever. And, but the point 01:14:18.069 --> 01:14:19.390 is it's like the same movie, but it's fucking 01:14:19.390 --> 01:14:21.229 terrible. And I think that like, you can really 01:14:21.229 --> 01:14:23.689 see like looking at that movie, like this is 01:14:23.689 --> 01:14:26.210 the same writer. This is a Marvel director. This 01:14:26.210 --> 01:14:29.869 is like, you know, this is exactly what one would 01:14:29.869 --> 01:14:32.909 expect you to do with ready player one. Um, and 01:14:32.909 --> 01:14:36.279 it sucks. Like. But Spielberg took that thing 01:14:36.279 --> 01:14:37.979 and like turned it completely on its head and 01:14:37.979 --> 01:14:40.960 criticizes it and like completely picks it apart 01:14:40.960 --> 01:14:42.899 and like shows you what's wrong with it. And 01:14:42.899 --> 01:14:45.140 that's like why Ready Player One is a totally 01:14:45.140 --> 01:14:47.279 watchable and interesting movie compared to that. 01:14:47.340 --> 01:14:49.760 Like even for people who don't know what's going 01:14:49.760 --> 01:14:52.779 on, it's just like it's still that's the one 01:14:52.779 --> 01:14:54.699 that's going to make any sort of cultural impact. 01:14:55.640 --> 01:14:57.739 Free Guy, nobody's ever going to watch it. Ready 01:14:57.739 --> 01:15:00.279 Player One only has a slightly better rating 01:15:00.279 --> 01:15:02.739 than Free Guy, so I feel like both movies sort 01:15:02.739 --> 01:15:05.079 of amount to the same thing for most people. 01:15:05.520 --> 01:15:09.479 Maybe, maybe. I feel like a lot of people might 01:15:09.479 --> 01:15:11.659 watch Free Guy and be like, yeah, this isn't 01:15:11.659 --> 01:15:13.260 that good, but they'll also watch Ready Player 01:15:13.260 --> 01:15:15.100 One and be like, yeah, this is not good either. 01:15:15.460 --> 01:15:18.500 I feel like it comes off as the same kind of 01:15:18.500 --> 01:15:24.760 movie. Yeah, I guess, I guess. But I think that, 01:15:24.760 --> 01:15:27.659 I think that part of it is like Spielberg's really 01:15:27.659 --> 01:15:29.920 showing you through this project. Like I'm taking 01:15:29.920 --> 01:15:34.640 a thing from a fan boy, just like a fan boy bullshit, 01:15:34.699 --> 01:15:40.680 like a fan fiction thing. And I'm having a Zach 01:15:40.680 --> 01:15:43.439 Penn, a Marvel writer, write this thing for me. 01:15:43.460 --> 01:15:45.659 And then I'm going to have like. you know the 01:15:45.659 --> 01:15:47.640 same effects people who do all this other bullshit 01:15:47.640 --> 01:15:49.460 do my effects and everything and whatever but 01:15:49.460 --> 01:15:52.020 i'm gonna make it incredible and like that shows 01:15:52.020 --> 01:15:55.180 the difference between like an auteur and like 01:15:55.180 --> 01:15:57.020 a non -auteur you know what i mean that shows 01:15:57.020 --> 01:16:00.619 the difference between like what like what marvel's 01:16:00.619 --> 01:16:02.520 doing versus what he's he's literally just like 01:16:02.520 --> 01:16:05.760 doing a marvel project But this one has so much 01:16:05.760 --> 01:16:08.260 nuance and so much depth that like those movies 01:16:08.260 --> 01:16:11.380 lack that like it literally shows the whole point 01:16:11.380 --> 01:16:14.079 of auteur cinema there. Like, you know what I 01:16:14.079 --> 01:16:16.359 mean? It's that this does have a guy behind the 01:16:16.359 --> 01:16:18.760 thing that's the hidden hand who's like trying 01:16:18.760 --> 01:16:22.060 to direct this in certain mysterious and interesting 01:16:22.060 --> 01:16:25.960 ways. Yeah. I mean, the entire movie is really 01:16:25.960 --> 01:16:29.460 just like making the case for film analysis and 01:16:29.460 --> 01:16:33.229 analyzing Spielberg seriously. And like finding 01:16:33.229 --> 01:16:36.350 meaning in art that affects your life. It like 01:16:36.350 --> 01:16:38.930 validates this podcast and what we do here, you 01:16:38.930 --> 01:16:41.850 know? No, totally. Totally. I think, I mean, 01:16:41.869 --> 01:16:43.630 that's the thing is like after going back and 01:16:43.630 --> 01:16:45.710 rewatching all of Spielberg's movies and being 01:16:45.710 --> 01:16:47.630 like, dude, like all of these are saying something 01:16:47.630 --> 01:16:51.630 really interesting or subversive or like, well, 01:16:51.729 --> 01:16:53.329 we'll get to more of these on the podcast. But 01:16:53.329 --> 01:16:54.869 I think that all of these movies have a lot going 01:16:54.869 --> 01:16:58.250 on. And I felt like, dude, like there are. there's 01:16:58.250 --> 01:16:59.930 like easter eggs here or something there's like 01:16:59.930 --> 01:17:02.569 some there's like always a thing in a spielberg 01:17:02.569 --> 01:17:06.649 movie that shows you these hidden depths um that 01:17:06.649 --> 01:17:09.609 once you notice that thing it's like oh well 01:17:09.609 --> 01:17:11.350 that's exactly what it's about you know what 01:17:11.350 --> 01:17:13.770 i mean i think you know like and many times these 01:17:13.770 --> 01:17:15.550 are the criticisms of his movies right like people 01:17:15.550 --> 01:17:17.390 talk about indiana jones and be like oh yeah 01:17:17.390 --> 01:17:19.489 well the exact same thing would have happened 01:17:19.489 --> 01:17:22.189 whether he was there or not like as if that's 01:17:22.189 --> 01:17:23.609 a criticism but it's like no dude that's not 01:17:23.609 --> 01:17:25.680 a that's the whole point You know what I mean? 01:17:25.699 --> 01:17:27.300 It's the same with Ready Player One. Like, oh, 01:17:27.399 --> 01:17:29.979 well, what? No, no new media was created after 01:17:29.979 --> 01:17:32.159 2020. That's stupid. And it's like, no, that's 01:17:32.159 --> 01:17:34.779 the whole point. Like that's every time people 01:17:34.779 --> 01:17:36.979 kind of think there's. So I think that when you 01:17:36.979 --> 01:17:38.680 notice these things and then start thinking about 01:17:38.680 --> 01:17:40.699 them, you can find this sort of thing. And then 01:17:40.699 --> 01:17:43.260 I watched this movie and it's all about like, 01:17:43.380 --> 01:17:44.979 oh, there's a thing called an Easter egg. And 01:17:44.979 --> 01:17:46.640 it's not just a reference. It's like a hidden 01:17:46.640 --> 01:17:48.340 thing that actually shows you the underlying 01:17:48.340 --> 01:17:50.779 depth to something that seems just like commercial 01:17:50.779 --> 01:17:54.170 on the face of it. But really, it's like got 01:17:54.170 --> 01:17:56.550 this sort of code. I remember when you saw this 01:17:56.550 --> 01:17:58.729 movie for the first time, it was with me. And 01:17:58.729 --> 01:18:02.350 it's like when when we like stepped outside to 01:18:02.350 --> 01:18:04.090 have a smoke and talk about it, you were just 01:18:04.090 --> 01:18:06.510 like, I feel incredibly validated in like the 01:18:06.510 --> 01:18:08.430 way I've been thinking about Spielberg for a 01:18:08.430 --> 01:18:13.270 long time. It's like literally him stating it 01:18:13.270 --> 01:18:14.909 for the first time in his career is just like, 01:18:14.930 --> 01:18:16.970 dude, like I am doing this just so you know. 01:18:18.090 --> 01:18:20.750 And to me, it felt like his eyes wide shut, right? 01:18:20.869 --> 01:18:22.270 Where it was just kind of like at the end of 01:18:22.270 --> 01:18:25.689 Kubrick's career, he's kind of like. and a bunch 01:18:25.689 --> 01:18:28.350 of conspiracy shit about like evil elites and 01:18:28.350 --> 01:18:31.310 whatever it's like well that changes the rest 01:18:31.310 --> 01:18:33.949 of your career because like now we can see like 01:18:33.949 --> 01:18:36.770 the evil elite uh conspiracy shit that already 01:18:36.770 --> 01:18:38.750 was there in all of these other movies like you 01:18:38.750 --> 01:18:40.670 know what i mean this connects to all those in 01:18:40.670 --> 01:18:44.189 so many ways of course the same guy made these 01:18:44.189 --> 01:18:47.409 and now you can see that because he's revealed 01:18:47.409 --> 01:18:49.670 the hidden hand a little bit the other things 01:18:49.670 --> 01:18:52.649 that are going on like The same thing happened 01:18:52.649 --> 01:18:53.970 watching Ready Player One. It was like, dude, 01:18:54.069 --> 01:18:55.989 you're totally saying all of these things now. 01:18:56.130 --> 01:18:57.710 You're totally saying you're doing this on purpose. 01:18:57.810 --> 01:19:02.329 You're totally saying there is a code and that 01:19:02.329 --> 01:19:04.189 the right people out there can see the code, 01:19:04.270 --> 01:19:08.590 but that most of the viewing audience is not 01:19:08.590 --> 01:19:11.529 going to be interested enough to find it. Let 01:19:11.529 --> 01:19:12.970 alone the corporate entities. And there's no 01:19:12.970 --> 01:19:15.350 real corporate entity that's going to do it either. 01:19:15.430 --> 01:19:18.789 There's no benefit to doing it monetarily necessarily. 01:19:18.850 --> 01:19:23.010 You know what I mean? Um, unless, you know, Spielberg 01:19:23.010 --> 01:19:27.449 passes on the torch to you, but other than the 01:19:27.449 --> 01:19:30.890 Willy Wonka fantasy, but there is the effect 01:19:30.890 --> 01:19:33.649 on your life that, you know, Parzival has in 01:19:33.649 --> 01:19:35.829 the end. And I think that that's kind of what's 01:19:35.829 --> 01:19:37.770 really important is in the end, like Parzival 01:19:37.770 --> 01:19:41.350 actually like does create a life for himself. 01:19:41.510 --> 01:19:43.890 That's like outside of the oasis. You know what 01:19:43.890 --> 01:19:46.250 I mean? Like he's cured his autism to a certain 01:19:46.250 --> 01:19:50.350 degree. Sure, yeah. In the beginning, he's alone 01:19:50.350 --> 01:19:52.130 and basically an orphan. He's living with his 01:19:52.130 --> 01:19:54.250 aunt, and then they get killed. He's a very lonely 01:19:54.250 --> 01:19:56.750 dude, and the only people he knows are online. 01:19:57.390 --> 01:19:59.829 And even though it's insanely convenient from 01:19:59.829 --> 01:20:02.029 a storytelling perspective that everybody is 01:20:02.029 --> 01:20:05.750 in Columbus, Ohio, he, by the end, is really 01:20:05.750 --> 01:20:08.449 with all of his friends in flesh and blood. He 01:20:08.449 --> 01:20:11.350 has a clan and a community. You know what I mean? 01:20:11.409 --> 01:20:14.409 Totally. He finds a girl, and he joins a resistance. 01:20:15.609 --> 01:20:18.689 To fight against the power and everything. That's 01:20:18.689 --> 01:20:21.170 all so powerful. It is a lot like The Matrix, 01:20:21.289 --> 01:20:23.029 too, in a lot of ways. Yeah, it's like The Matrix, 01:20:23.109 --> 01:20:25.810 totally. There's a lot of crossover things. Well, 01:20:25.850 --> 01:20:27.869 Ernest Cline is also just derivative of The Matrix. 01:20:28.829 --> 01:20:31.810 Ernest Cline is the most derivative. Ready Player 01:20:31.810 --> 01:20:33.850 One, the book, is the most derivative possible 01:20:33.850 --> 01:20:37.149 thing. It's like... It's like starting with nothing. 01:20:37.270 --> 01:20:39.989 You know what I mean? Like as far as like putting 01:20:39.989 --> 01:20:42.590 any meaning in this thing, it's like Spielberg 01:20:42.590 --> 01:20:44.829 almost has a blank slate because it's a slate 01:20:44.829 --> 01:20:48.270 that's just full of so much IP bullshit. Like, 01:20:48.270 --> 01:20:53.100 you know? Yeah. So. None of these trials are 01:20:53.100 --> 01:20:54.579 the trials that are in the book. None of the 01:20:54.579 --> 01:20:57.619 challenges or any of the riddles. None of that's 01:20:57.619 --> 01:20:59.100 from the book. It's all stuff that Spielberg 01:20:59.100 --> 01:21:01.739 makes up in order to talk about film analysis 01:21:01.739 --> 01:21:04.619 and his career and his connection to Kubrick 01:21:04.619 --> 01:21:07.680 and the fact that they're the only two guys that 01:21:07.680 --> 01:21:10.680 are kind of doing this thing. I mean, not the 01:21:10.680 --> 01:21:12.520 only two guys. There are other people. I think 01:21:12.520 --> 01:21:16.840 Nolan is trying to do some of that, too, in some 01:21:16.840 --> 01:21:20.470 subversive filmmaking for the masses. sort of 01:21:20.470 --> 01:21:22.789 ways putting things under the radar totally but 01:21:22.789 --> 01:21:26.489 i think that spielberg is very much in this movie 01:21:26.489 --> 01:21:30.829 like validating that um so we're going on almost 01:21:30.829 --> 01:21:33.430 an hour and a half here before so to get us so 01:21:33.430 --> 01:21:35.489 to get to the to the kind of third challenge 01:21:35.489 --> 01:21:37.409 and the ending and everything one of the things 01:21:37.409 --> 01:21:40.090 that i think is really interesting and i should 01:21:40.090 --> 01:21:42.369 mention like i wrote a 60 page essay on this 01:21:42.369 --> 01:21:44.869 on ready player one that's part of why this is 01:21:44.869 --> 01:21:46.770 all jumping all over the place and i've got like 01:21:46.770 --> 01:21:48.409 a lot of ideas that i'm not getting out very 01:21:48.409 --> 01:21:50.680 well But one of the things that I had not put 01:21:50.680 --> 01:21:53.359 in this essay was kind of my conspiracy theory 01:21:53.359 --> 01:21:57.340 about Ready Player One that I just couldn't quite 01:21:57.340 --> 01:22:00.380 pin down or validate exactly. I'm not exactly 01:22:00.380 --> 01:22:03.979 sure where it is still, but I think a lot of 01:22:03.979 --> 01:22:07.220 this has to do with. Yeah, a lot of this has 01:22:07.220 --> 01:22:10.739 to do with Ogden Morrow, Simon Pegg's character. 01:22:11.159 --> 01:22:15.760 Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And he obviously he's 01:22:15.760 --> 01:22:19.510 the curator. He's the guy at the. At the memory 01:22:19.510 --> 01:22:24.069 farm. He's the craft work robot. Exactly. And 01:22:24.069 --> 01:22:26.869 he's the one who gives Parzival the free life 01:22:26.869 --> 01:22:29.710 and all that. But he's also clearly the one that's 01:22:29.710 --> 01:22:31.250 like pulling the strings the whole time. Like 01:22:31.250 --> 01:22:33.689 the only reason that Parzival notices that scene 01:22:33.689 --> 01:22:37.189 where he says, why don't you go back, way back 01:22:37.189 --> 01:22:39.550 to the beginning, the way that it was. Like, 01:22:39.550 --> 01:22:42.989 that's only because... the curator doesn't turn 01:22:42.989 --> 01:22:44.829 it off when parsable tells him to turn it off 01:22:44.829 --> 01:22:46.369 you know what i mean he leaves it on for just 01:22:46.369 --> 01:22:48.170 a second he's kind of like yeah you hear this 01:22:48.170 --> 01:22:50.090 you hear this like he's about to say it dude 01:22:50.090 --> 01:22:52.029 right as you're walking off i'll just leave it 01:22:52.029 --> 01:22:55.109 on then he's like wait no go back okay like and 01:22:55.109 --> 01:22:58.090 then you know he then he gives him the free life 01:22:58.090 --> 01:23:01.470 he likes you know he validates them through like 01:23:01.470 --> 01:23:06.220 subtle i don't know very subtle means Do you 01:23:06.220 --> 01:23:08.260 think Ogdemore really didn't know that that was 01:23:08.260 --> 01:23:10.039 the only mention of Kira in the archives? And 01:23:10.039 --> 01:23:12.199 that really was like a real bet and stuff? Or 01:23:12.199 --> 01:23:14.840 do you think it was all just like part of the, 01:23:14.979 --> 01:23:17.439 yeah, like how Ogdemore was sort of just like 01:23:17.439 --> 01:23:20.279 his Virgil, like leading him on? Well, I think 01:23:20.279 --> 01:23:23.720 it's all part of the plan. Absolutely. So I think 01:23:23.720 --> 01:23:26.439 that essentially in the book, he wins the free 01:23:26.439 --> 01:23:28.920 life by playing Pac -Man for 24 hours or some 01:23:28.920 --> 01:23:30.439 shit. It's like a stupid, oh, you're very good 01:23:30.439 --> 01:23:34.170 at Pac -Man. Here's a free life. But. Yeah, in 01:23:34.170 --> 01:23:36.050 the movie, the free life he gets for finding 01:23:36.050 --> 01:23:38.149 that. But he gets it from Ogden Morrow. Ogden 01:23:38.149 --> 01:23:41.590 Morrow is like, I feel like Ogden Morrow, he's 01:23:41.590 --> 01:23:44.789 seen this kid around before. The curator has 01:23:44.789 --> 01:23:47.289 interacted with this kid many times. And it seems 01:23:47.289 --> 01:23:50.369 to me like the real search for the one who will 01:23:50.369 --> 01:23:53.430 carry the torch might be over before the movie 01:23:53.430 --> 01:23:55.649 starts. You know what I mean? Like, Ogden Morrow 01:23:55.649 --> 01:23:58.390 may have determined this already. And these are 01:23:58.390 --> 01:24:02.920 all just things being played out. he really is 01:24:02.920 --> 01:24:04.859 in control of this. The other thing that I think 01:24:04.859 --> 01:24:07.100 is really interesting is the final scene, um, 01:24:07.359 --> 01:24:10.399 is when Parzival says like, you're not dead, 01:24:10.500 --> 01:24:13.359 are you? You're not a program, are you? And he's 01:24:13.359 --> 01:24:15.779 like, no. And he's like, but holiday's dead. 01:24:15.960 --> 01:24:17.699 And he's like, yeah. He's like, then what are 01:24:17.699 --> 01:24:20.159 you? Then what are you? Yeah. That's a really 01:24:20.159 --> 01:24:23.979 weird moment, man. And then, and then he leaves 01:24:23.979 --> 01:24:26.319 the room and he closes the door and immediately 01:24:26.319 --> 01:24:28.960 the door opens to the back of the truck. And 01:24:28.960 --> 01:24:31.329 then Ogden Morrow's there. The door closes on 01:24:31.329 --> 01:24:34.270 holiday. Door opens on Arden Morrow. Right after 01:24:34.270 --> 01:24:36.710 the question, then what are you? You know what 01:24:36.710 --> 01:24:40.369 I mean? That's true. Yeah. He's not alive. You're 01:24:40.369 --> 01:24:44.090 saying that. And he's not a program. So the only 01:24:44.090 --> 01:24:46.770 other option is that he's somebody else. Yeah. 01:24:47.109 --> 01:24:50.050 Unless it's some sort of AI bullshit or something. 01:24:50.109 --> 01:24:51.770 But I just don't believe that. I don't think 01:24:51.770 --> 01:24:53.970 Spielberg believes that. I don't think Kubrick 01:24:53.970 --> 01:24:56.189 believed in that. I don't think that's any part 01:24:56.189 --> 01:24:59.279 of any of this. I think that. You can imagine, 01:24:59.380 --> 01:25:01.420 oh, it's a spirit, it's an angel, it's a thing, 01:25:01.420 --> 01:25:02.779 it's some sort of thing that we couldn't possibly 01:25:02.779 --> 01:25:04.180 understand. Or it's like, no, no, no, or it's 01:25:04.180 --> 01:25:07.060 the only possible answer, which is that it's 01:25:07.060 --> 01:25:09.739 the one guy who's been standing behind all of 01:25:09.739 --> 01:25:11.500 this the whole time pulling all the strings. 01:25:12.140 --> 01:25:14.680 Ogden Morrow, yeah. Ogden Morrow, who got kicked 01:25:14.680 --> 01:25:16.340 out of the company and found his way back in. 01:25:16.460 --> 01:25:21.279 Ogden Morrow was just using... Halliday's avatar. 01:25:21.680 --> 01:25:23.539 He was just, like, using his headset. And maybe 01:25:23.539 --> 01:25:25.840 he's the one who actually came up with the entire 01:25:25.840 --> 01:25:27.880 competition to begin with and had nothing to 01:25:27.880 --> 01:25:30.840 do with Halliday. And Halliday never actually 01:25:30.840 --> 01:25:34.380 had this realization. It was only something Ogden 01:25:34.380 --> 01:25:37.979 knew about his best friend. Exactly. Exactly. 01:25:38.399 --> 01:25:40.640 And because, like, also, like, who's the type 01:25:40.640 --> 01:25:42.539 of person who could make up this type of piece 01:25:42.539 --> 01:25:44.199 of art? Like, you know what I mean? Who's actually 01:25:44.199 --> 01:25:46.300 going to find the person who can find... Like, 01:25:46.319 --> 01:25:50.750 he's the curator. is really the one who's curating 01:25:50.750 --> 01:25:54.149 this whole thing because he's not a weird autistic 01:25:54.149 --> 01:25:56.250 person who, like, can't relate to people and 01:25:56.250 --> 01:25:57.590 doesn't understand how to do these. Like, you 01:25:57.590 --> 01:26:00.869 know what I mean? Yeah. You know what I just 01:26:00.869 --> 01:26:03.449 realized, too, that's really interesting about 01:26:03.449 --> 01:26:05.949 Simon Pegg that connects to all this is that 01:26:05.949 --> 01:26:08.949 essay he wrote about infantilization. Oh, of 01:26:08.949 --> 01:26:11.510 course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. that's a great essay 01:26:11.510 --> 01:26:13.050 it's a great essay but it's just talking about 01:26:13.050 --> 01:26:15.210 how we've got a whole culture based on people 01:26:15.210 --> 01:26:17.270 obsessed with the shit that they were interested 01:26:17.270 --> 01:26:18.970 in when they were 12 years old because it gives 01:26:18.970 --> 01:26:20.869 us comfort because the world's full of so much 01:26:20.869 --> 01:26:23.369 anxiety and so we just go back to our childhood 01:26:23.369 --> 01:26:25.729 state where we didn't know about these things 01:26:25.729 --> 01:26:28.329 so we can like it's yeah it's totally about you 01:26:28.329 --> 01:26:30.609 know and the extended childhoods that his generation 01:26:30.609 --> 01:26:33.369 was given that now every generation is like even 01:26:33.369 --> 01:26:36.090 more extended childhoods or even more like extended 01:26:36.090 --> 01:26:38.659 toddlerhoods you know what i mean It's like, 01:26:38.680 --> 01:26:43.159 are we even becoming adolescents anymore? Totally. 01:26:43.579 --> 01:26:46.140 Yeah, yeah. And I think that there really is 01:26:46.140 --> 01:26:48.359 something there where, like, the more I've watched 01:26:48.359 --> 01:26:50.600 this movie, the more I've been like, dude, I 01:26:50.600 --> 01:26:54.619 think the curator is absolutely the key to all 01:26:54.619 --> 01:26:58.720 of this. He's the curator. And in the end, what 01:26:58.720 --> 01:27:02.239 happens is the guy, the curator, Ogden Morrow, 01:27:02.319 --> 01:27:04.520 who got kicked out of the company, he's signed 01:27:04.520 --> 01:27:09.180 on as a silent partner. For life. But only for 01:27:09.180 --> 01:27:12.359 25 cents, though. Not for any money. Yeah. Not 01:27:12.359 --> 01:27:16.899 for any money at all. As the, like, head of this 01:27:16.899 --> 01:27:20.560 company that's run by a bunch of teenagers. See, 01:27:20.680 --> 01:27:22.659 this is the thing. It kind of is a Willy Wonka 01:27:22.659 --> 01:27:24.880 in the end, isn't it? You're kind of right. Damn, 01:27:25.060 --> 01:27:28.300 dude. You're fucking me up right now. Exactly. 01:27:28.659 --> 01:27:31.840 Exactly. Fuck, dude. Oh, shit. It kind of is 01:27:31.840 --> 01:27:34.439 a Willy Wonka in the end. They're like, I got 01:27:34.439 --> 01:27:36.380 my team. I got my whatever. And we signed him 01:27:36.380 --> 01:27:39.539 on for just $1. So he's not a bad guy. He's just 01:27:39.539 --> 01:27:42.560 like the only adult around who's manipulated 01:27:42.560 --> 01:27:45.479 us into finding the one. You know what I mean? 01:27:46.579 --> 01:27:48.619 Yeah, yeah. That's a really great conspiracy 01:27:48.619 --> 01:27:51.319 theory, man. I buy it. That's interesting. I 01:27:51.319 --> 01:27:53.659 think there's something there. I haven't quite 01:27:53.659 --> 01:27:55.720 connected it to all the other themes of the entire 01:27:55.720 --> 01:27:58.340 movie or whatever. But I think there's something 01:27:58.340 --> 01:28:02.180 there about that. Definitely. And I think that 01:28:02.180 --> 01:28:04.479 that that's part of my idea of this having something 01:28:04.479 --> 01:28:07.020 to do with J .J. Abrams and these false, you 01:28:07.020 --> 01:28:09.619 know, successors to Spielberg and stuff and these 01:28:09.619 --> 01:28:12.180 people who are just derivative of him and whatever. 01:28:12.279 --> 01:28:15.640 Like, I think that there's something there about 01:28:15.640 --> 01:28:19.880 the hidden people next to the people, the Hollywood 01:28:19.880 --> 01:28:23.239 elites with their. They're handlers. I don't 01:28:23.239 --> 01:28:25.420 know. There's something there about this, though. 01:28:26.020 --> 01:28:27.640 And I think there's also something there about 01:28:27.640 --> 01:28:29.920 just like Halliday is not the type of person 01:28:29.920 --> 01:28:33.960 who could be in charge of this without a handler. 01:28:34.140 --> 01:28:36.819 Yeah. You know? You're right. Yeah. Because he's 01:28:36.819 --> 01:28:39.979 just a child. He's just a child. And Ogden Morrow 01:28:39.979 --> 01:28:43.079 has been manipulating a child to create this 01:28:43.079 --> 01:28:45.000 giant company. And now he's finding another child 01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:47.720 to manipulate. be in charge of this company. 01:28:47.819 --> 01:28:50.220 Like, I don't know. Holy shit. I think it doesn't 01:28:50.220 --> 01:28:51.739 matter that he kicked this guy out of the company. 01:28:51.859 --> 01:28:54.159 I mean, the whole thing in the end that he, like, 01:28:54.239 --> 01:28:56.720 the whole not signing the contract, it was connected 01:28:56.720 --> 01:28:59.159 to, part of this was cut out of the movie, but 01:28:59.159 --> 01:29:00.939 it was supposed to be connected to, like, and 01:29:00.939 --> 01:29:03.420 he does say it, but it's very quick. It's like, 01:29:03.479 --> 01:29:05.840 oh, this contract, this was you kicking Ogden 01:29:05.840 --> 01:29:07.180 Moore out of the company. This is the biggest 01:29:07.180 --> 01:29:09.680 mistake of your career. The whole point of this 01:29:09.680 --> 01:29:11.359 whole challenge is that, like... In the end, 01:29:11.380 --> 01:29:13.439 he said it wasn't actually about Kira. It was 01:29:13.439 --> 01:29:15.500 about losing his best friend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:29:15.979 --> 01:29:17.739 It was all about Ogden Morrow being the greatest 01:29:17.739 --> 01:29:21.420 one. Um, which is like exactly what our game 01:29:21.420 --> 01:29:23.560 created by Ogden Morrow would say, isn't it? 01:29:23.579 --> 01:29:25.479 You know what I mean? That's kind of, is that 01:29:25.479 --> 01:29:29.380 really the, uh, the curator? It's hard to say. 01:29:29.460 --> 01:29:33.399 Dude. All that stuff at the end is so insanely 01:29:33.399 --> 01:29:36.380 feel -good. Like a saccharine feel -good Spielberg 01:29:36.380 --> 01:29:40.420 ending. To color it that way. It never felt real. 01:29:40.800 --> 01:29:42.779 You're right. It doesn't feel real. Especially 01:29:42.779 --> 01:29:44.420 how many times the door is open and just how 01:29:44.420 --> 01:29:47.319 weird it all is. It's so staged. It's a super 01:29:47.319 --> 01:29:49.199 bizarre... It's like the end of Minority Report 01:29:49.199 --> 01:29:52.100 or something. Many of these Spielberg movies 01:29:52.100 --> 01:29:56.479 end with these false... The end of War of the 01:29:56.479 --> 01:29:59.159 Worlds. Many of these have these false saccharine 01:29:59.159 --> 01:30:02.529 endings. that don't feel real. And you're like, 01:30:02.630 --> 01:30:05.109 why? Oh, why did that feel like that? It's like, 01:30:05.149 --> 01:30:07.430 dude, because it's ironic. It's interesting. 01:30:07.529 --> 01:30:09.170 Like, there's something else going on that is 01:30:09.170 --> 01:30:10.710 making you feel weird about this. It's like the 01:30:10.710 --> 01:30:13.670 ending of Willy Wonka. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. 01:30:15.449 --> 01:30:17.130 Really, it's like the ending of A Clockwork Orange. 01:30:17.270 --> 01:30:19.350 You know what I mean? Oh, yeah? Where it's like, 01:30:19.369 --> 01:30:21.350 it doesn't feel real, but it's off -putting enough 01:30:21.350 --> 01:30:23.529 to notice that it doesn't feel real sort of thing. 01:30:23.569 --> 01:30:25.090 But it's the end of A Clockwork Orange. It's 01:30:25.090 --> 01:30:28.069 the, I was cured all right sort of thing. You 01:30:28.069 --> 01:30:30.430 know? Except here it's like I was curated all 01:30:30.430 --> 01:30:34.550 right. You know what I mean? There's the whole 01:30:34.550 --> 01:30:36.350 thing we were saying. All the endings don't really 01:30:36.350 --> 01:30:39.289 make sense. You have in Kubrick movies these 01:30:39.289 --> 01:30:42.989 endings that just feel sort of surreal. But there's 01:30:42.989 --> 01:30:45.210 always a key to them in Kubrick's movies where 01:30:45.210 --> 01:30:47.090 when you watch them, once you understand it, 01:30:47.189 --> 01:30:49.569 it's like the ending actually does totally make 01:30:49.569 --> 01:30:51.109 sense. It's not just this out there surreal sort 01:30:51.109 --> 01:30:53.619 of thing. That's strange, yeah. Yeah, once you 01:30:53.619 --> 01:30:55.640 kind of solve that puzzle, the ending of A Clockwork 01:30:55.640 --> 01:30:57.319 Orange totally makes sense. And the ending of 01:30:57.319 --> 01:30:59.119 this movie, too, is like, why does this not feel 01:30:59.119 --> 01:31:00.500 real? Why is this so weird? It's like, well, 01:31:00.640 --> 01:31:02.680 he was cured all right. You know what I mean? 01:31:02.720 --> 01:31:06.920 He was curated all right. Yeah, yeah. He's colluding 01:31:06.920 --> 01:31:09.199 with his government officials. It's the same 01:31:09.199 --> 01:31:12.319 ending as A Clockwork Orange, essentially. Yeah, 01:31:12.399 --> 01:31:15.340 I've actually never thought about that Spielberg 01:31:15.340 --> 01:31:18.609 -Kubrick connection, the idea that... Because 01:31:18.609 --> 01:31:20.289 you're right, yeah, like, Kubrick's endings are 01:31:20.289 --> 01:31:25.829 always sort of enigmatic. And, yeah, just because 01:31:25.829 --> 01:31:28.710 of the way we see Spielberg and the way he makes 01:31:28.710 --> 01:31:30.649 his movies, we don't see him as an enigmatic 01:31:30.649 --> 01:31:33.050 filmmaker, so his endings don't come off like 01:31:33.050 --> 01:31:34.630 the way Kubrick endings do. But you're right. 01:31:34.729 --> 01:31:37.970 Like, if you kind of see them as doing very similar 01:31:37.970 --> 01:31:40.149 things, all of Spielberg's endings are also these 01:31:40.149 --> 01:31:42.250 really weird, surreal, like, what the fuck just 01:31:42.250 --> 01:31:44.470 happened kind of things. Well, totally. And here, 01:31:44.510 --> 01:31:46.460 if you pay attention to it, like... There's the 01:31:46.460 --> 01:31:48.779 whole thing with the contract, right? But we 01:31:48.779 --> 01:31:49.819 didn't even talk about it. There's the whole 01:31:49.819 --> 01:31:52.319 second contract. There's the contract in the 01:31:52.319 --> 01:31:54.140 game that he decides not to sign because it's 01:31:54.140 --> 01:31:56.819 obviously wrong to sign the contract. And then, 01:31:56.859 --> 01:31:59.340 as soon as he leaves the game, Ogdemore's like, 01:31:59.380 --> 01:32:00.640 yo, here's the contract. He's like, oh, great, 01:32:00.720 --> 01:32:02.600 I'll sign it. Oh, yeah, you're right. Yeah, there's 01:32:02.600 --> 01:32:04.680 a real contract. He's signing it not as an individual. 01:32:05.399 --> 01:32:07.359 He's not signing it as an individual. He's signing 01:32:07.359 --> 01:32:09.159 it for his team. It's like, you know what? Actually, 01:32:09.199 --> 01:32:11.300 rewrite this contract so that it's our team that's 01:32:11.300 --> 01:32:14.930 in charge. But that's really like... what he's 01:32:14.930 --> 01:32:18.130 been sort of curated into you know what i mean 01:32:18.130 --> 01:32:19.930 like this is the big difference between him and 01:32:19.930 --> 01:32:23.069 holiday is that holiday was this sort of lone 01:32:23.069 --> 01:32:26.630 libertarian sort of hero who had sole control 01:32:26.630 --> 01:32:28.350 over the oasis and because of that like it was 01:32:28.350 --> 01:32:30.850 probably really irritating for ogden morrow who 01:32:30.850 --> 01:32:32.350 like wanted to do more with this company for 01:32:32.350 --> 01:32:33.829 all these other people like ioi wanted to do 01:32:33.829 --> 01:32:36.670 more of this company but he's like no i just 01:32:36.670 --> 01:32:39.109 i just want it to be the way that it was you 01:32:39.109 --> 01:32:43.399 know what i mean But they've like totally taken 01:32:43.399 --> 01:32:46.479 that individuality out of this, that libertarian 01:32:46.479 --> 01:32:48.539 thing out of this through this sort of like left 01:32:48.539 --> 01:32:51.680 wing sort of like, you know, believe in yourself 01:32:51.680 --> 01:32:54.199 and go with your team and feel good about the 01:32:54.199 --> 01:32:55.939 fact that you're good to your friends and you're 01:32:55.939 --> 01:32:58.199 all together in this sort of commune where you 01:32:58.199 --> 01:33:00.140 share power and that sort of like, you know what 01:33:00.140 --> 01:33:02.180 I mean? But that also makes them more controllable 01:33:02.180 --> 01:33:05.000 by this guy. Yeah, maybe. But they also do make 01:33:05.000 --> 01:33:09.029 the decision to change the rules and. screw over 01:33:09.029 --> 01:33:13.130 ioi you know so the results that's true that's 01:33:13.130 --> 01:33:16.350 true but the results in the end i mean you could 01:33:16.350 --> 01:33:18.109 say it's similar to the ending of schindler's 01:33:18.109 --> 01:33:20.609 list where there's kind of a both and thing happening 01:33:20.609 --> 01:33:22.810 where like yeah maybe this guy is just like a 01:33:22.810 --> 01:33:25.590 piece of shit but he did save all these jews 01:33:25.590 --> 01:33:28.130 you know totally totally and this is this is 01:33:28.130 --> 01:33:29.029 the thing that i think is really interesting 01:33:29.029 --> 01:33:31.810 about this right is this has been a big chess 01:33:31.810 --> 01:33:35.409 game between ioi and moro Right? Yeah. That's 01:33:35.409 --> 01:33:37.109 who he's trying to defeat. And these kids have 01:33:37.109 --> 01:33:40.130 been the pawns of Moro's sort of side. But, like, 01:33:40.149 --> 01:33:42.750 what's the difference between Moro and IOI? Like, 01:33:42.770 --> 01:33:44.170 we kind of started talking about IOI and how 01:33:44.170 --> 01:33:45.850 great the name is because it looks like Hal and 01:33:45.850 --> 01:33:47.430 because it's a Masonic symbol and all that. But 01:33:47.430 --> 01:33:49.350 we didn't even mention it's binary, right? It's 01:33:49.350 --> 01:33:52.029 101. I didn't get into all the reasons why it's 01:33:52.029 --> 01:33:54.750 a good name. But, yeah. And it's almost, it's 01:33:54.750 --> 01:33:56.689 too obvious. But, like, it's 101. And, like, 01:33:56.689 --> 01:33:58.770 what we're talking about is, like, algorithmic 01:33:58.770 --> 01:34:01.069 understanding, binary understanding of reality. 01:34:01.529 --> 01:34:04.770 You know what I mean? And a data. algorithm based 01:34:04.770 --> 01:34:06.989 understanding of reality. And we're doing that 01:34:06.989 --> 01:34:11.989 in this sort of. of the modern film age and what 01:34:11.989 --> 01:34:14.090 has happened to the modern film age and what's 01:34:14.090 --> 01:34:15.430 happening in the future of the modern film age. 01:34:15.489 --> 01:34:16.810 And we're talking about a chess game between 01:34:16.810 --> 01:34:20.489 an algorithm and a gatekeeper, essentially. I 01:34:20.489 --> 01:34:21.949 think it's really interesting to tie that to 01:34:21.949 --> 01:34:24.550 Netflix and the current streaming paradigm thing 01:34:24.550 --> 01:34:28.329 and all that. The algorithm loses to this gatekeeper, 01:34:28.449 --> 01:34:30.770 which I think is really interesting. It's all 01:34:30.770 --> 01:34:34.390 a battle between an algorithm and a gatekeeper 01:34:34.390 --> 01:34:38.539 without a... like, master without, like, a Kubrick 01:34:38.539 --> 01:34:42.500 or a high artist. It's just the lower elements 01:34:42.500 --> 01:34:44.939 kind of fighting for the table scraps or whatever. 01:34:45.319 --> 01:34:47.979 I mean, I feel like there is a Kubrick in the 01:34:47.979 --> 01:34:50.880 character, either of Halliday or Morrow or something. 01:34:51.140 --> 01:34:53.279 Well, Halliday's not around anymore. And Morrow's 01:34:53.279 --> 01:34:56.560 not a Kubrick. He's not a Halliday. Like, Morrow... 01:34:56.560 --> 01:34:58.460 Well, that's really... Morrow might have had 01:34:58.460 --> 01:35:00.960 better ideas about how to like, I mean, you can 01:35:00.960 --> 01:35:03.180 see Morrow arguing with Halliday about the direction 01:35:03.180 --> 01:35:05.159 of the company and the power it has and all that 01:35:05.159 --> 01:35:07.500 stuff and how Halliday is just not listening 01:35:07.500 --> 01:35:09.159 to him. And then he kind of got like pushed out 01:35:09.159 --> 01:35:13.279 of the company. So even if Morrow was manipulating 01:35:13.279 --> 01:35:16.140 this whole thing, I can't necessarily say he's 01:35:16.140 --> 01:35:18.800 an evil character, maybe a gatekeeper. Yes. But 01:35:18.800 --> 01:35:21.640 like maybe his intentions are good. And I kind 01:35:21.640 --> 01:35:24.439 of think that like. the changes that get made 01:35:24.439 --> 01:35:26.439 to the Oasis and the changes that come about 01:35:26.439 --> 01:35:28.859 because of this new regime are actually better 01:35:28.859 --> 01:35:30.899 than what Halliday created and, like, wrought 01:35:30.899 --> 01:35:33.000 upon the world, you know? No, I think that's 01:35:33.000 --> 01:35:35.520 true. I think that's true. But I also think that 01:35:35.520 --> 01:35:37.279 there's... It's interesting to me because we're 01:35:37.279 --> 01:35:39.239 talking about a relationship between Halliday 01:35:39.239 --> 01:35:41.239 and Morrow. We're also talking about a relationship 01:35:41.239 --> 01:35:44.680 between Kubrick and Spielberg or Kubrick and 01:35:44.680 --> 01:35:50.199 his handler. What's his name? Vitaly. Leon Vitaly. 01:35:51.020 --> 01:35:54.159 Yeah, yeah. Red Cloak. Red Cloak. Leon Vitaly. 01:35:54.539 --> 01:35:56.619 The one who's in charge of it all. Yeah, exactly. 01:35:56.640 --> 01:36:01.479 Behind the mask. But I think that the idea of 01:36:01.479 --> 01:36:04.529 this sort of... cynical there's there's a cynicism 01:36:04.529 --> 01:36:06.729 here there's like a struggle of power between 01:36:06.729 --> 01:36:10.970 moro and holiday and there's a frustration with 01:36:10.970 --> 01:36:14.609 how it is sort of individuality and genius and 01:36:14.609 --> 01:36:16.970 whatever and then there's some there's some back 01:36:16.970 --> 01:36:18.430 and forth in this relationship in which like 01:36:18.430 --> 01:36:20.329 i don't know that holiday could exist without 01:36:20.329 --> 01:36:23.430 moro or if moro could exist without holiday but 01:36:23.430 --> 01:36:25.750 i think it brings a very interesting like i this 01:36:25.750 --> 01:36:27.350 is the part that i haven't really figured out 01:36:27.350 --> 01:36:28.670 at all but i think it brings an interesting and 01:36:28.670 --> 01:36:33.220 like cynical sort of view of this like love letter 01:36:33.220 --> 01:36:35.020 to stanley kubrick like you know what i mean 01:36:35.020 --> 01:36:38.359 where like there isn't really a like totally 01:36:38.359 --> 01:36:42.399 blameless beautiful kubrick in this movie or 01:36:42.399 --> 01:36:44.479 a beautiful blameless spielberg like they're 01:36:44.479 --> 01:36:47.380 all kind of a part of this corrupt system and 01:36:47.380 --> 01:36:48.939 like how much we can trust them and how much 01:36:48.939 --> 01:36:52.359 good they may or may not do is like kind of all 01:36:52.359 --> 01:36:54.819 up in the air in the end yeah i think i i think 01:36:54.819 --> 01:36:58.949 i did read that Halliday and Morrow were supposed 01:36:58.949 --> 01:37:02.189 to be a Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak kind of dichotomy. 01:37:02.189 --> 01:37:04.689 Yeah, no, totally. Yeah. Totally, totally. That's 01:37:04.689 --> 01:37:07.109 absolutely in the book, like, the idea. Yeah, 01:37:07.149 --> 01:37:08.770 yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think in the movie, 01:37:08.789 --> 01:37:10.510 it's translated more towards the film thing, 01:37:10.609 --> 01:37:12.949 but, like, that's completely there, too. Yeah, 01:37:12.949 --> 01:37:15.210 exactly. You know what I mean? I'm sure that's, 01:37:15.210 --> 01:37:18.270 like, written into this, like, character descriptions 01:37:18.270 --> 01:37:19.789 that the actors were given. It's like, yeah, 01:37:19.810 --> 01:37:22.930 you're kind of the Wozniak. Exactly, yeah. But 01:37:22.930 --> 01:37:26.659 I think this movie, like, it has a view of the 01:37:26.659 --> 01:37:29.079 genius and it has a view of the libertarian genius 01:37:29.079 --> 01:37:31.159 and it has a view of the teamwork and it has 01:37:31.159 --> 01:37:32.699 a view of the collaboration, but all of those 01:37:32.699 --> 01:37:35.819 are tinged with some sort of like cynicism or 01:37:35.819 --> 01:37:38.000 some sort of, some sort of power grab that we 01:37:38.000 --> 01:37:41.319 can't necessarily trust. Sure. I feel that. I 01:37:41.319 --> 01:37:43.520 think that's interesting. Like I think it leaves 01:37:43.520 --> 01:37:45.640 us with like a bad taste in our mouth, no matter 01:37:45.640 --> 01:37:48.779 kind of what interpretation I have in the end 01:37:48.779 --> 01:37:50.100 of it. I don't know. That's, that's kind of my, 01:37:50.180 --> 01:37:53.500 my, my two cents on that whole new conspiracy. 01:37:54.829 --> 01:37:56.909 I definitely think like, I mean, like thinking 01:37:56.909 --> 01:38:00.270 about it a little bit, I don't like fully understand 01:38:00.270 --> 01:38:04.550 how it works in the plot, how Moro got his like 01:38:04.550 --> 01:38:08.029 hand back into the company or I don't know, like, 01:38:08.050 --> 01:38:09.569 I guess he's, he got kicked out of the company. 01:38:09.590 --> 01:38:13.010 So maybe he's not working within the company. 01:38:13.789 --> 01:38:16.170 He just has a way. He just knows what the back 01:38:16.170 --> 01:38:17.930 doors are or whatever, but he would have to be 01:38:17.930 --> 01:38:20.229 controlling. Maybe Halliday just never fucking 01:38:20.229 --> 01:38:22.109 did paperwork and Maura was his friend who did 01:38:22.109 --> 01:38:24.010 the paperwork for him and just wrote this into 01:38:24.010 --> 01:38:27.649 his will. He was like, he never revisited his 01:38:27.649 --> 01:38:31.189 will. He's like, I trusted my friend to do this 01:38:31.189 --> 01:38:32.850 and he wrote it in and he wrote in this whole 01:38:32.850 --> 01:38:34.270 thing of like, oh, I'm going to take over all 01:38:34.270 --> 01:38:35.869 this when you're out of here because you don't 01:38:35.869 --> 01:38:36.989 pay attention to this shit. You don't even care 01:38:36.989 --> 01:38:38.750 about this shit anyway. You care about playing. 01:38:39.130 --> 01:38:41.430 tetris for like a thousand hours i also guess 01:38:41.430 --> 01:38:44.189 i wouldn't be surprised if mora was the person 01:38:44.189 --> 01:38:47.550 that holiday would leave it to like even if they 01:38:47.550 --> 01:38:49.789 did have a falling out that there's no one else 01:38:49.789 --> 01:38:52.350 he could possibly think of there was no other 01:38:52.350 --> 01:38:55.689 friend he had you know right right and he knew 01:38:55.689 --> 01:38:57.229 he was gonna die one day and it was gonna have 01:38:57.229 --> 01:38:58.989 to go to someone he wouldn't want it to end up 01:38:58.989 --> 01:39:02.109 in ioi's hands right so right but even if he 01:39:02.109 --> 01:39:04.229 was too short -sighted to think of all that mora 01:39:04.229 --> 01:39:06.850 wasn't exactly exactly so he found out some way 01:39:06.850 --> 01:39:09.149 to like actually conquer that thing he knew the 01:39:09.149 --> 01:39:12.210 type of guy that holiday was and that there would 01:39:12.210 --> 01:39:14.069 be something like this and he paid attention 01:39:14.069 --> 01:39:16.430 to the video archives whatever it is you know 01:39:16.430 --> 01:39:19.489 but he's always been in control honestly if you 01:39:19.489 --> 01:39:21.770 think about the amount of times we actually see 01:39:21.770 --> 01:39:24.630 holiday in the movie and then break down like 01:39:24.630 --> 01:39:28.109 if you're gonna assume that um holiday is not 01:39:28.109 --> 01:39:32.330 the avatar like the uh whatever the wizard Anorak. 01:39:32.330 --> 01:39:34.329 Anorak the Great, yeah. Like if we're going to 01:39:34.329 --> 01:39:36.329 assume that that's not Halliday and that's actually 01:39:36.329 --> 01:39:41.090 Morrow, we only see Halliday in like three memories 01:39:41.090 --> 01:39:42.770 or something like that, maybe even just two. 01:39:42.930 --> 01:39:45.729 Right. And he doesn't really seem like a thinker, 01:39:45.729 --> 01:39:48.710 dude. Like he doesn't really seem like he's actually 01:39:48.710 --> 01:39:50.369 like, because the whole first argument is like, 01:39:50.409 --> 01:39:52.149 do you understand what this company is doing 01:39:52.149 --> 01:39:53.590 to the world? And he's just like, I don't care. 01:39:54.510 --> 01:39:56.949 I just want things to go back to the way they 01:39:56.949 --> 01:40:00.090 were when they were fun. No, he doesn't understand. 01:40:00.189 --> 01:40:04.930 And then the other scene where Nolan's talking 01:40:04.930 --> 01:40:06.949 to him about the payment tiers and stuff. He 01:40:06.949 --> 01:40:11.550 just says, good coffee. There is no juice. These 01:40:11.550 --> 01:40:14.050 are his only lines in the movie. It almost doesn't 01:40:14.050 --> 01:40:17.430 seem like the guy thinks about anything except... 01:40:17.630 --> 01:40:20.149 making his game like that's just there's also 01:40:20.149 --> 01:40:22.010 there's also his date he talks about after his 01:40:22.010 --> 01:40:24.909 date it's like she wanted to go dancing so we 01:40:24.909 --> 01:40:29.470 saw a movie yeah that's part of the same yeah 01:40:29.470 --> 01:40:32.569 it's part of the same scene there is no juice 01:40:32.569 --> 01:40:35.350 but yeah it's like yeah it's just like if he's 01:40:35.350 --> 01:40:37.149 got nothing going on in there that's really like 01:40:37.149 --> 01:40:39.649 if that's really the only representation of that 01:40:39.649 --> 01:40:41.649 actual person in the movie that it's like dude 01:40:41.649 --> 01:40:43.630 there's not like a lot going on with this guy 01:40:43.630 --> 01:40:47.420 like yeah yeah maybe he's some kind of yeah video 01:40:47.420 --> 01:40:49.840 game genius but otherwise he's like completely 01:40:49.840 --> 01:40:54.539 inept in pretty much every other area yeah he's 01:40:54.539 --> 01:40:58.220 just like an avatar like yeah without what's 01:40:58.220 --> 01:41:01.619 behind the eyes holy shit well that's awesome 01:41:01.619 --> 01:41:05.659 fuck yeah um but enough on enough we should move 01:41:05.659 --> 01:41:08.899 on you want to move on to the next Now that we've 01:41:08.899 --> 01:41:11.819 talked enough about Spielberg's reckoning with 01:41:11.819 --> 01:41:13.819 himself and the culture, let's talk about his 01:41:13.819 --> 01:41:17.039 reckoning with his past and his family. Absolutely. 01:41:40.779 --> 01:41:44.220 All right, back from the break. Back. All right, 01:41:44.300 --> 01:41:47.060 The Fablemans. We just had this entire conversation 01:41:47.060 --> 01:41:50.840 about Ready Player One being way more personally 01:41:50.840 --> 01:41:54.119 about Spielberg and his movie career and his 01:41:54.119 --> 01:41:56.979 impact on culture than many people may have imagined. 01:41:57.399 --> 01:42:00.800 Yeah, and I think really it was the first that 01:42:00.800 --> 01:42:03.579 he really started talking about his career personally 01:42:03.579 --> 01:42:06.739 in that way in Ready Player One. And then he 01:42:06.739 --> 01:42:10.220 followed that up with... Yeah, really revealing. 01:42:10.359 --> 01:42:13.340 He followed that up with West Side Story, which 01:42:13.340 --> 01:42:15.880 I think was just a longtime passion project. 01:42:17.100 --> 01:42:19.800 Might be a movie worth talking about at some 01:42:19.800 --> 01:42:24.039 time, but it doesn't feel nearly as connected 01:42:24.039 --> 01:42:28.100 to Ready Player One as what follows that up, 01:42:28.140 --> 01:42:31.460 which is The Fablemans, which is maybe the only 01:42:31.460 --> 01:42:34.319 Spielberg movie that actually has his name credited 01:42:34.319 --> 01:42:37.489 as the writer, or is there another one? just 01:42:37.489 --> 01:42:39.350 the famous closing counters ai and amblin which 01:42:39.350 --> 01:42:43.789 is his student short um so so he hasn't like 01:42:43.789 --> 01:42:46.189 really penned most of his movies gotten credit 01:42:46.189 --> 01:42:52.810 for writing any of his screenplays um but his 01:42:52.810 --> 01:42:55.069 name is prominently featured on the posters for 01:42:55.069 --> 01:42:58.029 the fable men's along with um the other writer 01:42:58.029 --> 01:43:03.119 was it tony kushner yeah yeah And it's very much 01:43:03.119 --> 01:43:06.260 an autobiographical movie about Spielberg's life. 01:43:07.460 --> 01:43:09.939 Even if like, I mean, I feel like you and I both 01:43:09.939 --> 01:43:11.659 went into it kind of feeling like it wouldn't 01:43:11.659 --> 01:43:16.039 be quite this personal. Absolutely not. It almost 01:43:16.039 --> 01:43:19.180 feels like it's like therapy. He's like bearing 01:43:19.180 --> 01:43:22.520 it all and really like, you know. Totally, totally. 01:43:22.800 --> 01:43:25.970 He's described it that way. Yeah, exactly. He 01:43:25.970 --> 01:43:28.069 said basically that sitting down with Tony Kushner 01:43:28.069 --> 01:43:30.210 and working through the script was essentially 01:43:30.210 --> 01:43:32.930 the closest he's been to therapy in his life. 01:43:34.710 --> 01:43:38.569 Around this time, his parents also both died 01:43:38.569 --> 01:43:41.949 and stuff, so this is all tied up in that emotional 01:43:41.949 --> 01:43:44.289 process of dealing with that and looking back 01:43:44.289 --> 01:43:46.289 at his childhood and talking to Tony Kushner 01:43:46.289 --> 01:43:48.390 about it for the first time and all that. It's 01:43:48.390 --> 01:43:51.420 definitely... extremely autobiographical. And 01:43:51.420 --> 01:43:54.100 I, I really did not. I agree. I went into it 01:43:54.100 --> 01:43:56.960 thinking it was probably some sort of distance 01:43:56.960 --> 01:43:58.899 thing. You know what I mean? Like all of his 01:43:58.899 --> 01:44:00.579 movies are that maybe you'll have to decode to 01:44:00.579 --> 01:44:02.979 find the thing that is about Spielberg. No, no, 01:44:02.979 --> 01:44:05.000 this is literally, this kid is just doing a Spielberg 01:44:05.000 --> 01:44:06.880 impression and it's literally just about his 01:44:06.880 --> 01:44:09.060 actual parents who actually had this actual thing 01:44:09.060 --> 01:44:11.260 happen to them. And he actually was filming and 01:44:11.260 --> 01:44:13.720 actually showed his mom, like every single thing 01:44:13.720 --> 01:44:16.520 in this movie literally actually happened. Which 01:44:16.520 --> 01:44:19.500 is fascinating. Like, it's a really, really revealing 01:44:19.500 --> 01:44:22.460 story for all of Spielberg's motivations for 01:44:22.460 --> 01:44:25.220 his entire career. Like, in a very, you know, 01:44:25.319 --> 01:44:28.239 psychoanalysis way. Yeah, sure. It validates 01:44:28.239 --> 01:44:30.000 even more all the things we were saying about, 01:44:30.039 --> 01:44:33.079 like, the way he treats his art in Ready Player 01:44:33.079 --> 01:44:37.100 One. Totally. Totally. I think, like, this kind 01:44:37.100 --> 01:44:41.359 of focus on his parents and just how much of 01:44:41.359 --> 01:44:44.880 a dichotomy they are, like, how different. I 01:44:44.880 --> 01:44:48.060 think Mitzi even at one point describes them 01:44:48.060 --> 01:44:51.180 as the artist versus the scientists. Yeah, yeah, 01:44:51.220 --> 01:44:56.420 absolutely. Mitzi is a completely unhinged, creative 01:44:56.420 --> 01:45:02.539 kind of person who is weirdly poetic and theatrical 01:45:02.539 --> 01:45:05.000 and flamboyant. Everybody falls in love with 01:45:05.000 --> 01:45:07.319 her. Everybody falls in love with her. There's 01:45:07.319 --> 01:45:09.520 something... But on the other hand, his dad is, 01:45:09.560 --> 01:45:11.859 like, this, like, weird spurg. He's, like, this 01:45:11.859 --> 01:45:16.159 weird autistic dude who just, like, wants to 01:45:16.159 --> 01:45:19.720 make faster computers. I mean, but he's extremely 01:45:19.720 --> 01:45:22.640 successful. Like, he's, you know. Oh, yeah, totally. 01:45:22.659 --> 01:45:24.800 He's the greatest at, you know, his thing in 01:45:24.800 --> 01:45:28.000 the world and stuff. Whereas Mitzi had to give 01:45:28.000 --> 01:45:31.020 up all of her ambitions to, like, be, you know, 01:45:31.079 --> 01:45:34.680 his wife and, like, raise his kids and whatever. 01:45:36.450 --> 01:45:38.329 What's weird, too, is I think there's a bit of 01:45:38.329 --> 01:45:39.970 a contradiction to the way they're presented 01:45:39.970 --> 01:45:43.329 because Mitzi is presented as the artist. And 01:45:43.329 --> 01:45:46.529 it's said many times during the movie. I think 01:45:46.529 --> 01:45:49.970 even his sister, Reggie, says to him at one point, 01:45:50.090 --> 01:45:52.670 you're most like Mitzi out of anyone in this 01:45:52.670 --> 01:45:56.949 family. The idea that Mitzi is the artist in 01:45:56.949 --> 01:46:00.630 the family, the creative. But in the same conversation, 01:46:00.869 --> 01:46:04.260 she also admits that Mitzi's not a genius. She 01:46:04.260 --> 01:46:07.239 admits that dad is the genius and how hard it 01:46:07.239 --> 01:46:10.979 must be to be married to a genius and whatever. 01:46:11.479 --> 01:46:13.319 Because when you think about it, it's like Mitzi 01:46:13.319 --> 01:46:15.539 doesn't write music. Mitzi doesn't create anything 01:46:15.539 --> 01:46:17.859 novel. She's just a piano player who's very good. 01:46:18.140 --> 01:46:23.619 And Bert, the father, he creates novel things 01:46:23.619 --> 01:46:28.880 that change the world. Right. You might not call 01:46:28.880 --> 01:46:33.750 it art, but it's a... creative it's still a creative 01:46:33.750 --> 01:46:37.170 process it's still like a it's still a thing 01:46:37.170 --> 01:46:39.210 he has to discover in like an oppenheimer kind 01:46:39.210 --> 01:46:42.210 of way and like there's even a moment when he 01:46:42.210 --> 01:46:46.569 says when he says to um sammy the spielberg character 01:46:46.569 --> 01:46:50.390 he says like it's kind of like what i do being 01:46:50.390 --> 01:46:52.810 a movie director you know and it's like he's 01:46:52.810 --> 01:46:55.289 kind of right about that yeah yeah there's something 01:46:55.289 --> 01:46:58.579 about Spielberg's dual nature as an artist and 01:46:58.579 --> 01:47:01.600 an engineer that makes him an ideal film director. 01:47:01.739 --> 01:47:03.939 The fact that he would have these two influences, 01:47:04.119 --> 01:47:07.260 you know what I mean? Yeah. The fact that he's 01:47:07.260 --> 01:47:10.560 like really creatively driven, but he's also 01:47:10.560 --> 01:47:13.420 engineer. He has the mind of an engineer who 01:47:13.420 --> 01:47:16.520 can like problem solve all these things and like 01:47:16.520 --> 01:47:19.119 create all these really ingenious solutions to 01:47:19.119 --> 01:47:22.300 things. Totally. totally like the like the bullet 01:47:22.300 --> 01:47:24.699 holes even though it was sort of inspired by 01:47:24.699 --> 01:47:27.640 mitzi because she steps on the paper and puts 01:47:27.640 --> 01:47:29.460 the hole in it and he sees that and it inspires 01:47:29.460 --> 01:47:31.840 him to like put holes in the film to create the 01:47:31.840 --> 01:47:35.000 bullet things whatever but you know he's like 01:47:35.000 --> 01:47:37.659 coming up with things where like the the kids 01:47:37.659 --> 01:47:40.619 like slam their feet down on the boards to like 01:47:40.619 --> 01:47:42.500 make the dirt go up behind them so it looks like 01:47:42.500 --> 01:47:44.420 a bomb went off or whatever like there's like 01:47:44.420 --> 01:47:46.699 all these really like creative like it really 01:47:46.699 --> 01:47:48.960 focuses on all these sort of like technical engineering 01:47:48.960 --> 01:47:52.979 things that he's doing to like achieve the the 01:47:52.979 --> 01:47:56.859 illusion of the film or whatever um and just 01:47:56.859 --> 01:48:01.199 how concerned sammy is with like control and 01:48:01.199 --> 01:48:04.979 like creating a reality from nothing like like 01:48:04.979 --> 01:48:06.640 when he's watching his first dailies and when 01:48:06.640 --> 01:48:08.199 they're like firing the guns he just like looks 01:48:08.199 --> 01:48:11.939 fake totally fake right right you know yeah there's 01:48:11.939 --> 01:48:17.090 a strong desire Like advanced. Yeah, exactly. 01:48:17.649 --> 01:48:21.810 Not just like telling a story or conveying emotion. 01:48:21.909 --> 01:48:26.670 Like it needs to like seduce you into its reality. 01:48:26.829 --> 01:48:31.689 It has to feel real and whatever. Totally. And 01:48:31.689 --> 01:48:34.729 then the other aspect of it is the whole just 01:48:34.729 --> 01:48:37.529 discovering the affair within the footage. Like 01:48:37.529 --> 01:48:40.829 the idea that you would find a hidden meaning. 01:48:41.640 --> 01:48:43.899 in the footage like you would shoot all this 01:48:43.899 --> 01:48:45.920 stuff and then later when it's in the editing 01:48:45.920 --> 01:48:48.380 room you like realize what the story actually 01:48:48.380 --> 01:48:52.460 is or you like find the art or whatever you find 01:48:52.460 --> 01:48:56.460 the meaning behind the pictures or whatever you 01:48:56.460 --> 01:48:59.800 know um that reveals a truth about his life and 01:48:59.800 --> 01:49:02.420 whatever yeah i think i think basically like 01:49:02.420 --> 01:49:03.880 that's that's one of the things that i think 01:49:03.880 --> 01:49:05.720 is so interesting is like he comes to this through 01:49:05.720 --> 01:49:08.939 like this anxiety situation that he just like 01:49:09.449 --> 01:49:12.050 wants to recreate this train crash in order to 01:49:12.050 --> 01:49:13.970 like have some sort of control over it or whatever 01:49:13.970 --> 01:49:16.890 and then it's like it's really like a freudian 01:49:16.890 --> 01:49:20.909 like process through which like he finds this 01:49:20.909 --> 01:49:24.770 thing as a like a means to an end or whatever 01:49:24.770 --> 01:49:28.649 like and then that becomes him like you know 01:49:28.649 --> 01:49:31.569 what i mean and i think i think it's very interesting 01:49:31.569 --> 01:49:33.829 because like that's that's very much like the 01:49:33.829 --> 01:49:35.789 way that you have the dichotomy of the parents 01:49:35.789 --> 01:49:38.010 as well you've got the mom who just like is this 01:49:38.010 --> 01:49:41.479 like in the moment experiencing everything sort 01:49:41.479 --> 01:49:42.539 of thing or whatever and then you've got the 01:49:42.539 --> 01:49:44.659 dad who's kind of this analytical standing back 01:49:44.659 --> 01:49:47.260 and looking at it you know uh from a distance 01:49:47.260 --> 01:49:49.779 sort of thing and i think that they're they're 01:49:49.779 --> 01:49:52.279 different parts of the process that spielberg 01:49:52.279 --> 01:49:54.680 totally embodies at different times you know 01:49:54.680 --> 01:49:58.079 what i mean and yeah i think like you totally 01:49:58.079 --> 01:50:00.939 see the Mitzi in many of his sequences. You know 01:50:00.939 --> 01:50:02.779 what I mean? And that's probably him on set, 01:50:02.859 --> 01:50:04.960 just like improvising how we're going to shoot 01:50:04.960 --> 01:50:07.100 this scene in the color purple in this field 01:50:07.100 --> 01:50:08.880 or whatever. And like, he didn't, you know, come 01:50:08.880 --> 01:50:11.079 up with an analytical shot list or whatever. 01:50:11.159 --> 01:50:12.979 He just felt it and did it. Like that's, he's 01:50:12.979 --> 01:50:15.199 one of these guys that does not do shot lists. 01:50:15.460 --> 01:50:17.159 Like, I mean, sometimes he does shot lists. He 01:50:17.159 --> 01:50:19.220 definitely doesn't storyboard. Like he just like, 01:50:19.279 --> 01:50:22.020 apparently, and he's claimed this for years and 01:50:22.020 --> 01:50:24.140 like people claim not to believe him, but apparently 01:50:24.140 --> 01:50:26.920 it's like pretty legit. he just like goes to 01:50:26.920 --> 01:50:28.500 set and then comes up with what they're going 01:50:28.500 --> 01:50:30.399 to do. Like he just like goes to the location. 01:50:30.460 --> 01:50:31.960 He's like, okay, well I guess the T -Rex will 01:50:31.960 --> 01:50:33.460 come in from the left here. Like, you know what 01:50:33.460 --> 01:50:36.279 I mean? It's like, I just find that so hard to 01:50:36.279 --> 01:50:38.039 believe when you have to do all the special effects 01:50:38.039 --> 01:50:40.279 shots and stuff. Yeah. I mean, for certain, for 01:50:40.279 --> 01:50:43.199 certain things, like he, he discusses this, um, 01:50:43.359 --> 01:50:47.039 with Paul Thomas Anderson on a, on a interview 01:50:47.039 --> 01:50:50.199 on the director's guild podcast. It's really 01:50:50.199 --> 01:50:51.979 interesting, but there's like a couple of sequences 01:50:51.979 --> 01:50:54.960 that he needed to like, uh shot list in some 01:50:54.960 --> 01:50:56.479 way or whatever but then he's like but dude like 01:50:56.479 --> 01:50:58.420 we shot it that way and then i just let the editors 01:50:58.420 --> 01:51:01.199 do what they would do with it um and they came 01:51:01.199 --> 01:51:02.859 up with some really interesting things that totally 01:51:02.859 --> 01:51:04.920 changed the shot list and whatever so i think 01:51:04.920 --> 01:51:07.199 there's there's often a lot of improvisation 01:51:07.199 --> 01:51:10.220 um and just sort of like feeling it out that 01:51:10.220 --> 01:51:11.920 like allows him to come up with these sequences 01:51:11.920 --> 01:51:15.819 that like are very emotionally present and like 01:51:16.450 --> 01:51:18.329 uh, impressive. You know what I mean? They leave 01:51:18.329 --> 01:51:20.270 an impression on you because they're not just 01:51:20.270 --> 01:51:22.569 like trying to recreate something that he had 01:51:22.569 --> 01:51:25.970 in his mind. That's at a location. That's kind 01:51:25.970 --> 01:51:27.869 of never quite going to be the thing, but he'll 01:51:27.869 --> 01:51:29.350 get as close as he can to whatever. It's like, 01:51:29.369 --> 01:51:30.850 no, no, he's just in the location. He's like, 01:51:30.890 --> 01:51:33.979 here's the thing, you know? And I also think 01:51:33.979 --> 01:51:35.739 that like we discussed in Ready Player One, I 01:51:35.739 --> 01:51:37.619 do think when we're watching Spielberg movies, 01:51:37.779 --> 01:51:40.359 we are watching an analytical guy who is totally 01:51:40.359 --> 01:51:43.399 emotionally distanced and like showing us like 01:51:43.399 --> 01:51:46.180 an engineer at work, like creating a weird, interesting 01:51:46.180 --> 01:51:48.300 argument with all these different interplaying 01:51:48.300 --> 01:51:50.560 like things that are all contradictory and whatever. 01:51:50.960 --> 01:51:53.539 I think you see that guy there, too, just as 01:51:53.539 --> 01:51:57.010 much. Yeah. For sure. But I think him coming 01:51:57.010 --> 01:51:59.609 to it through like this, this trauma is very 01:51:59.609 --> 01:52:03.390 interesting, uh, because we're really like, we're 01:52:03.390 --> 01:52:06.430 looking at like the process of creating this 01:52:06.430 --> 01:52:08.289 type of artist. You know what I mean? Like in, 01:52:08.310 --> 01:52:09.909 in ready player one, we're talking about like 01:52:09.909 --> 01:52:12.890 the successor to this artist and whatever. Um, 01:52:13.069 --> 01:52:15.880 and who this guy, but like. we're really going 01:52:15.880 --> 01:52:17.520 back and looking at like the beginnings that 01:52:17.520 --> 01:52:20.500 made holiday holiday in this movie. Exactly. 01:52:20.659 --> 01:52:23.520 And they're just like so raw and real that like, 01:52:23.539 --> 01:52:25.960 you can't help but take from it in like kind 01:52:25.960 --> 01:52:28.659 of a traditional way. I don't think this movie 01:52:28.659 --> 01:52:31.840 has like a, I mean, I think there are things 01:52:31.840 --> 01:52:33.680 we're going to get to that I think are very interesting 01:52:33.680 --> 01:52:35.180 and talking about his career and his life in 01:52:35.180 --> 01:52:38.220 very interesting ways. But many of his movies, 01:52:38.279 --> 01:52:40.939 I feel like have a totally subversive, you know, 01:52:40.939 --> 01:52:43.159 it feels like it's doing this, but it's actually 01:52:43.159 --> 01:52:45.609 doing the other thing or whatever. In this one, 01:52:45.630 --> 01:52:47.869 I think it's like, it's kind of traditional in 01:52:47.869 --> 01:52:50.270 a lot of ways where like, it's almost like Terrence 01:52:50.270 --> 01:52:52.890 Malick looking at his, you know, boyhood in, 01:52:52.930 --> 01:52:54.770 in the tree of life or something where it's just 01:52:54.770 --> 01:52:57.350 kind of like, yeah, it's sincerely just looking 01:52:57.350 --> 01:52:58.789 at this and being like, isn't it interesting 01:52:58.789 --> 01:53:00.550 when your mom is this type of person and your 01:53:00.550 --> 01:53:02.270 dad's this type of person and then you got these 01:53:02.270 --> 01:53:03.869 brothers and then you turn out to be this type 01:53:03.869 --> 01:53:07.649 of guy. Like, you know, it's, it's very earnestly. 01:53:08.250 --> 01:53:10.130 kind of straightforward and then you can look 01:53:10.130 --> 01:53:12.710 at it and be like oh dude like i can see exactly 01:53:12.710 --> 01:53:15.329 who you are now like and that just reveals everything 01:53:15.329 --> 01:53:17.210 about every one of these other movies because 01:53:17.210 --> 01:53:20.689 i can just psychologically i know you like now 01:53:20.689 --> 01:53:23.390 you know i think that's i don't know i think 01:53:23.390 --> 01:53:24.810 that's fascinating but like we were saying i 01:53:24.810 --> 01:53:26.930 didn't i didn't think going into this that this 01:53:26.930 --> 01:53:29.510 was going to be that i thought and as i was watching 01:53:29.510 --> 01:53:32.390 it i was just kind of like this isn't like Spielberg's 01:53:32.390 --> 01:53:33.930 story. Right. And then like, as soon as it's 01:53:33.930 --> 01:53:36.789 like, he's spying on his mom with the camera 01:53:36.789 --> 01:53:39.329 and stuff, I was like, Oh, is this also about 01:53:39.329 --> 01:53:41.649 De Palma and stuff? Like, is this kind of about 01:53:41.649 --> 01:53:44.689 like all of the auteurs of the, of the, you know, 01:53:44.689 --> 01:53:47.329 new Hollywood. And this is like kind of a stand 01:53:47.329 --> 01:53:50.149 in for De Palma's childhood where he also like 01:53:50.149 --> 01:53:53.310 became interested in voyeurism and videotaping 01:53:53.310 --> 01:53:55.869 because he was videotaping his mom having a affair 01:53:55.869 --> 01:53:59.210 that like he knew about. And it's like, Turns 01:53:59.210 --> 01:54:01.329 out, no, that's not actually the case. It has 01:54:01.329 --> 01:54:02.569 nothing to do with De Palma. It's just that they 01:54:02.569 --> 01:54:05.050 both have this same thing that made them the 01:54:05.050 --> 01:54:06.949 same weird type of perverts who had to become 01:54:06.949 --> 01:54:09.350 film auteurs. You know what I mean? It's like, 01:54:09.350 --> 01:54:11.609 it is a specific type of thing that fucks people 01:54:11.609 --> 01:54:14.590 up in a perverted way that makes them voyeurists 01:54:14.590 --> 01:54:16.880 and interested in this. type of thing that makes 01:54:16.880 --> 01:54:19.039 them fall in love with the cameras and the technology 01:54:19.039 --> 01:54:21.100 and the stuff. Like they're very specific people. 01:54:21.260 --> 01:54:23.619 And it's very weird that like both of those guys 01:54:23.619 --> 01:54:26.840 had the same experience, like falling in love 01:54:26.840 --> 01:54:28.420 with cinema. They'd like care of age in the same 01:54:28.420 --> 01:54:31.680 time. Yeah. And Sammy is almost like a force 01:54:31.680 --> 01:54:34.739 that gets pushed forward by like an equal and 01:54:34.739 --> 01:54:36.600 opposite force on each side of them. You got 01:54:36.600 --> 01:54:40.500 like the positivity of his mother and how much 01:54:40.500 --> 01:54:43.020 she supports his filmmaking and how like intrinsically 01:54:43.020 --> 01:54:46.380 tied to his filmmaking. She is, which is why 01:54:46.380 --> 01:54:48.140 he gives it up after finding out about the affair 01:54:48.140 --> 01:54:51.560 and stuff. It's just too much to like do it because 01:54:51.560 --> 01:54:54.159 like she gives him the camera. She's the first 01:54:54.159 --> 01:54:55.979 person to give him the camera. Right. And she 01:54:55.979 --> 01:54:58.800 makes a secret agreement with him to not tell 01:54:58.800 --> 01:55:01.100 dad that you, that we're doing this. Right. Right. 01:55:01.199 --> 01:55:04.520 And after he like catches her in the affair, 01:55:04.640 --> 01:55:06.199 he says, I won't tell anyone. They have another 01:55:06.199 --> 01:55:08.100 secret. And he's like holding these secrets with 01:55:08.100 --> 01:55:12.229 his mother. Yeah. This weird. freudian bond thing 01:55:12.229 --> 01:55:14.409 that's all wrapped up into his filmmaking but 01:55:14.409 --> 01:55:19.310 then you have dad who is like what's weird about 01:55:19.310 --> 01:55:21.689 dad is like he seems supportive he's like there 01:55:21.689 --> 01:55:24.310 helping on the sets and like he's really impressed 01:55:24.310 --> 01:55:27.369 by the films you can tell and he's like wow it's 01:55:27.369 --> 01:55:29.489 kind of like what i do but he still kind of sees 01:55:29.489 --> 01:55:31.350 it as just like a stepping stone to something 01:55:31.350 --> 01:55:34.270 greater that his son should be doing. Yeah. And 01:55:34.270 --> 01:55:37.229 he doesn't like fully support it. And there's 01:55:37.229 --> 01:55:39.630 a bit of like resistance that gets like thrown 01:55:39.630 --> 01:55:42.710 into the mix as well. Like, Ooh, this is something 01:55:42.710 --> 01:55:45.050 that'll make my dad angry too. It's like rebellious 01:55:45.050 --> 01:55:47.130 to do it as well. You know? And like, yeah. So 01:55:47.130 --> 01:55:49.630 like, I think. I think that, like I was saying, 01:55:49.689 --> 01:55:50.710 I think that it's interesting that he came to 01:55:50.710 --> 01:55:52.350 this through trauma and it's kind of like him 01:55:52.350 --> 01:55:54.930 trying to kind of help himself with this trauma 01:55:54.930 --> 01:55:56.989 and these psychological issues that are passed 01:55:56.989 --> 01:55:59.109 on from his mother and these secrets that he 01:55:59.109 --> 01:56:01.329 kept with his mother against his father and all 01:56:01.329 --> 01:56:03.529 these things that he's, he's not doing this just 01:56:03.529 --> 01:56:07.409 because like he's a first interested in movies 01:56:07.409 --> 01:56:09.069 and then wants to become a movie director because 01:56:09.069 --> 01:56:10.670 he loves movies or whatever. It's like, no, no, 01:56:10.689 --> 01:56:12.949 it's, this is like weird trauma that makes him 01:56:12.949 --> 01:56:16.149 interested in. filmmaking through other means 01:56:16.149 --> 01:56:19.909 and then like he comes to movies as a like something 01:56:19.909 --> 01:56:21.930 to satisfy his kink or something you know what 01:56:21.930 --> 01:56:23.810 i mean it's like it's it's like well it's it's 01:56:23.810 --> 01:56:25.670 it's funny that he watches the greatest show 01:56:25.670 --> 01:56:28.689 on earth and his reaction isn't to be like i 01:56:28.689 --> 01:56:31.149 want a film camera on hanukkah his reaction is 01:56:31.149 --> 01:56:33.850 i want a train yeah i want like a train set yeah 01:56:33.850 --> 01:56:36.510 and i want to crash this train i want to like 01:56:36.510 --> 01:56:39.350 reenact he doesn't like think about the idea 01:56:39.350 --> 01:56:41.310 that he could turn it into a movie or something 01:56:41.310 --> 01:56:44.859 it's not it's like the movie The Greatest Show 01:56:44.859 --> 01:56:48.439 on Earth, it seduced him. But then it traumatized 01:56:48.439 --> 01:56:52.100 him. Yeah, it seduced him and traumatized him, 01:56:52.140 --> 01:56:54.899 but he didn't leave that being like, I watched 01:56:54.899 --> 01:56:56.619 a movie and how powerful was that and I want 01:56:56.619 --> 01:56:58.340 to watch movies. He left thinking he watched 01:56:58.340 --> 01:57:00.199 a train accident. Right, right. You know what 01:57:00.199 --> 01:57:02.840 I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He left having an experience 01:57:02.840 --> 01:57:08.319 that transcended the movie and the false reality 01:57:08.319 --> 01:57:13.029 of it. Totally, totally. That inspired him. to 01:57:13.029 --> 01:57:15.050 get a train set. You know, like if you think 01:57:15.050 --> 01:57:17.710 about like if his mom hadn't bought him the film 01:57:17.710 --> 01:57:19.329 camera and stuff, he might've just been more 01:57:19.329 --> 01:57:21.810 into engineering, like making train sets and 01:57:21.810 --> 01:57:23.649 doing like engineering stuff. But then it became 01:57:23.649 --> 01:57:27.810 about like documenting the train instead. Yeah. 01:57:28.579 --> 01:57:30.560 But I think the part of it is it's not just about 01:57:30.560 --> 01:57:32.220 documenting the train. It's about documenting 01:57:32.220 --> 01:57:34.619 the crash. Like, it's about documenting the trauma 01:57:34.619 --> 01:57:38.340 of this crash. Because, like, it's the crash 01:57:38.340 --> 01:57:40.619 that scared him. And it's being scared of the 01:57:40.619 --> 01:57:42.680 crash that made him want to recreate the crash. 01:57:42.880 --> 01:57:45.619 And then, like, recreating the crash over and 01:57:45.619 --> 01:57:48.359 over is going to break this. train so they buy 01:57:48.359 --> 01:57:50.279 a camera so that he can recreate the trash just 01:57:50.279 --> 01:57:52.619 once so that he then can watch that over and 01:57:52.619 --> 01:57:55.640 over and keep like re -engaging with his trauma 01:57:55.640 --> 01:57:57.479 and i think that that's really interesting i 01:57:57.479 --> 01:58:00.460 mean like miyazaki um the anime director like 01:58:00.460 --> 01:58:04.000 he just he discusses his youth um i forget which 01:58:04.000 --> 01:58:07.430 character it was But he like describes like falling 01:58:07.430 --> 01:58:10.170 in love with one of these anime characters and 01:58:10.170 --> 01:58:13.050 like the trauma of that basically like breaking 01:58:13.050 --> 01:58:16.430 him. That just like as a little kid, he went 01:58:16.430 --> 01:58:18.510 through this trauma of like falling in love with 01:58:18.510 --> 01:58:20.850 some anime character or whatever. Like that was 01:58:20.850 --> 01:58:22.770 a false character. It was a cartoon on screen. 01:58:22.949 --> 01:58:24.850 Like the fact that that wasn't reality and was 01:58:24.850 --> 01:58:27.270 reality, blah, blah, blah. It was a super stimulus 01:58:27.270 --> 01:58:29.449 that then like made him go and like get interested 01:58:29.449 --> 01:58:32.229 in that for the rest of his career. And a bunch 01:58:32.229 --> 01:58:35.050 of these anime. creators like share that similar 01:58:35.050 --> 01:58:38.890 trauma i think that is like what makes them interested 01:58:38.890 --> 01:58:41.229 in this like otaku culture or something like 01:58:41.229 --> 01:58:44.109 but it's not just like uh like he describes it 01:58:44.109 --> 01:58:45.930 as trauma like you know what i mean like miyazaki 01:58:45.930 --> 01:58:48.050 doesn't i mean miyazaki specifically like hates 01:58:48.050 --> 01:58:50.170 fucking anime nerds and shit but he hates himself 01:58:50.170 --> 01:58:52.609 that's like part of the thing that's why he is 01:58:52.609 --> 01:58:54.369 the person that does what he does he's a really 01:58:54.369 --> 01:58:57.350 really bitter curmudgeon dude for them yeah yeah 01:58:57.350 --> 01:59:00.520 yeah um but that's probably because you know 01:59:00.520 --> 01:59:02.579 he is the person he is because he's gone through 01:59:02.579 --> 01:59:04.960 weird childhood trauma of living in a post -modern 01:59:04.960 --> 01:59:08.340 reality in which like as a you know four -year 01:59:08.340 --> 01:59:11.010 -old is like greatest human connection was with 01:59:11.010 --> 01:59:13.529 something on tv and stuff you know what i mean 01:59:13.529 --> 01:59:16.789 it's yeah sure um and i think that's really interesting 01:59:16.789 --> 01:59:18.489 that spielberg too like comes with this through 01:59:18.489 --> 01:59:21.590 like it's it's it's like trying to recreate this 01:59:21.590 --> 01:59:24.010 specific situation that's then like okay well 01:59:24.010 --> 01:59:26.109 i could recreate that on film and then like what 01:59:26.109 --> 01:59:28.109 does he do after that is he like then recreates 01:59:28.109 --> 01:59:30.170 all sorts of traumatic situations on film he's 01:59:30.170 --> 01:59:33.069 trying to scare his sisters or like scare people 01:59:33.069 --> 01:59:34.649 like i don't know like a lot of a lot of this 01:59:34.649 --> 01:59:37.880 is like very based in like super stimulus like 01:59:37.880 --> 01:59:39.979 stuff trying to create something exciting or 01:59:39.979 --> 01:59:42.279 traumatic or whatever and then like it really 01:59:42.279 --> 01:59:44.500 gets into like yeah spying on his mother and 01:59:44.500 --> 01:59:47.340 like discovering the hidden truths of the trauma 01:59:47.340 --> 01:59:50.039 of his whole life and all that sort of stuff 01:59:50.039 --> 01:59:52.720 like but it's all very trauma -based yeah but 01:59:52.720 --> 01:59:55.439 he it's not his intent to spy on his mother just 01:59:55.439 --> 01:59:58.239 like it's not his intent to to like recreate 01:59:58.239 --> 02:00:02.819 the train crash in film he does think i want 02:00:02.819 --> 02:00:06.439 a train and then he starts crashing it But it's 02:00:06.439 --> 02:00:08.439 Mitzi who puts the idea in his head to film it 02:00:08.439 --> 02:00:10.340 over and over so that the train won't break and 02:00:10.340 --> 02:00:12.100 that he won't be scared of it anymore. She puts 02:00:12.100 --> 02:00:14.180 that all in his head. Right, right. And there's 02:00:14.180 --> 02:00:15.800 that cute joke about it. It's like, I had to 02:00:15.800 --> 02:00:18.699 crash it a few times to get numerous takes or 02:00:18.699 --> 02:00:22.199 whatever. And you think about that as like a 02:00:22.199 --> 02:00:25.380 fucking Kubrick reference to some degree that 02:00:25.380 --> 02:00:27.279 you have to crash the train over and over again 02:00:27.279 --> 02:00:29.460 like a hundred times to get the thing or whatever. 02:00:31.949 --> 02:00:36.210 But also that like he didn't want to make the 02:00:36.210 --> 02:00:38.649 camping movie. That's something his dad like 02:00:38.649 --> 02:00:42.050 basically forced him to do. Right. Like guilt 02:00:42.050 --> 02:00:44.710 tripped him into doing. Right, right. And then 02:00:44.710 --> 02:00:47.050 he finds out about the affair just by watching 02:00:47.050 --> 02:00:49.189 the dailies and noticing something he didn't 02:00:49.189 --> 02:00:50.970 when he was looking through the lens, you know? 02:00:51.090 --> 02:00:54.220 Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. Absolutely. But I 02:00:54.220 --> 02:00:55.659 think, I think that's still, I think that's still 02:00:55.659 --> 02:00:57.960 a process of like discovering trauma in this. 02:00:58.000 --> 02:00:59.619 Like all of these, all of these things are like 02:00:59.619 --> 02:01:03.460 a discovery of more pain, more trauma, more whatever. 02:01:03.539 --> 02:01:06.659 Like there's, I guess there is the triumph of 02:01:06.659 --> 02:01:08.920 him showing his, his movie in the very end and 02:01:08.920 --> 02:01:11.760 stuff, which we'll get to. But I think that for 02:01:11.760 --> 02:01:13.819 me, like a lot of this has to do with like, we're 02:01:13.819 --> 02:01:17.060 talking about like childhood trauma as the thing 02:01:17.060 --> 02:01:18.800 that completely created him. And the thing that 02:01:18.800 --> 02:01:20.979 he continues to chase and like do over and over 02:01:20.979 --> 02:01:23.310 and repeat, like. It's a, it's a train crash 02:01:23.310 --> 02:01:25.670 that he's trying to recreate over and over. And 02:01:25.670 --> 02:01:29.029 then like his life is kind of this train crash 02:01:29.029 --> 02:01:30.949 that he's trying to recreate over and over through 02:01:30.949 --> 02:01:32.670 like all of his different father figures and 02:01:32.670 --> 02:01:34.069 mother figures and all these different movies 02:01:34.069 --> 02:01:37.250 and stuff that you can now see differently because 02:01:37.250 --> 02:01:39.130 you've actually seen the story that created the 02:01:39.130 --> 02:01:41.430 guy. And you can see like what he's, what his 02:01:41.430 --> 02:01:43.529 relationship views are. I guess something that's 02:01:43.529 --> 02:01:45.750 been brought up many times throughout his career 02:01:45.750 --> 02:01:48.909 is his daddy issues. Like there seems to be. 02:01:49.720 --> 02:01:53.279 a real preoccupation with father figures in his 02:01:53.279 --> 02:01:56.960 movies. Absolutely. Or the absence of father 02:01:56.960 --> 02:01:59.800 figures. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Or the very least 02:01:59.800 --> 02:02:03.079 distanced. But then this movie, like, shows this 02:02:03.079 --> 02:02:05.720 whole, like, these mommy issues shit that, like, 02:02:05.720 --> 02:02:07.899 hasn't really been super present in his movies 02:02:07.899 --> 02:02:10.880 before. Yeah, yeah, or at least not up front. 02:02:11.439 --> 02:02:15.020 Not up front, yeah. Definitely. It kind of reveals 02:02:15.020 --> 02:02:17.380 a new layer that you got to go back and rewatch 02:02:17.380 --> 02:02:20.399 his other movies to find. Or something. Yeah, 02:02:20.479 --> 02:02:22.979 like, was the mom in E .T. like, super overbearing? 02:02:23.159 --> 02:02:26.619 And like... She was super disinterested, though. 02:02:26.819 --> 02:02:30.060 She was super distant. She was super distant 02:02:30.060 --> 02:02:31.899 and disinterested. I mean, not as distant as 02:02:31.899 --> 02:02:35.800 the dad in E .T., but... Obviously. And she's 02:02:35.800 --> 02:02:37.500 only distanced because she's going through her 02:02:37.500 --> 02:02:38.840 own trauma or whatever. We're not going to talk 02:02:38.840 --> 02:02:40.539 about E .T. But still, yeah, it's like, there 02:02:40.539 --> 02:02:43.939 might be a bunch of, like, you know, female characters 02:02:43.939 --> 02:02:45.899 in his movies that you go back now and see Mitzi 02:02:45.899 --> 02:02:48.710 in them and whatever, but... But yeah, the father, 02:02:48.729 --> 02:02:50.770 just like the father dynamic, especially like, 02:02:50.890 --> 02:02:53.270 you know, I'm the third Indiana Jones with Indy 02:02:53.270 --> 02:02:55.350 and Sean Connery. Totally. Or catch me if you 02:02:55.350 --> 02:02:58.210 can. There's many, there's many. Catch me if 02:02:58.210 --> 02:03:00.489 you can. Yeah. Great distant fathers. Many examples 02:03:00.489 --> 02:03:03.590 of like distant father. Yeah. Or just shitty 02:03:03.590 --> 02:03:06.510 fathers or like, yeah, yeah. Lots of, lots of 02:03:06.510 --> 02:03:09.579 daddy issues. But yeah, I agree. I think, I think 02:03:09.579 --> 02:03:12.039 that in this movie, we're really talking about 02:03:12.039 --> 02:03:14.039 his relationship with his mother, which now he's 02:03:14.039 --> 02:03:15.939 getting into now that she's dead. And maybe even 02:03:15.939 --> 02:03:18.199 just thinking about for the first time in a different 02:03:18.199 --> 02:03:21.840 way, in a more sort of, with a little perspective, 02:03:21.960 --> 02:03:24.420 with a little distance or something. So I think 02:03:24.420 --> 02:03:26.260 it's interesting. Like a lot of the performances 02:03:26.260 --> 02:03:29.020 in this movie are like very naturalistic and 02:03:29.020 --> 02:03:30.300 believe, like, I think the guy who's playing 02:03:30.300 --> 02:03:32.500 Spielberg, like does such a good job of like 02:03:32.500 --> 02:03:35.079 feeling real and feeling exactly like Spielberg. 02:03:35.710 --> 02:03:39.810 But I think Michelle Williams, who is an incredibly 02:03:39.810 --> 02:03:42.989 naturalistic actor in many, many movies, a great, 02:03:43.069 --> 02:03:47.189 great actor, she feels so unnatural in this movie 02:03:47.189 --> 02:03:51.210 and weird and distant. And same goes for Paul 02:03:51.210 --> 02:03:55.529 Dano, who may be a less naturalistic actor in 02:03:55.529 --> 02:03:58.130 general or whatever, but still, he could be far 02:03:58.130 --> 02:04:00.850 more naturalistic in many other roles. In this 02:04:00.850 --> 02:04:03.619 movie, he is. I mean, he's playing Spielberg's 02:04:03.619 --> 02:04:06.880 father as if he's completely autistic. He has 02:04:06.880 --> 02:04:09.819 no ability to... He doesn't feel like he's a 02:04:09.819 --> 02:04:13.739 full person at all. And Michelle Williams is 02:04:13.739 --> 02:04:16.640 playing it as the most borderline personality. 02:04:18.359 --> 02:04:21.020 nightmare you've ever seen in your life like 02:04:21.020 --> 02:04:23.739 you know what i mean she's like insanely obnoxious 02:04:23.739 --> 02:04:26.720 like i can't like i can't imagine people dealing 02:04:26.720 --> 02:04:29.500 with like somebody like you know i mean she is 02:04:29.500 --> 02:04:32.199 insane in this movie and she just destroys this 02:04:32.199 --> 02:04:34.840 family like there's she's indefensible and yeah 02:04:34.840 --> 02:04:39.029 she's beautiful and like and i guess her piano 02:04:39.029 --> 02:04:40.729 playing is impressive or whatever but like a 02:04:40.729 --> 02:04:42.970 lot of this movie like portrays her as like a 02:04:42.970 --> 02:04:46.569 completely hysterical like mess who's like completely 02:04:46.569 --> 02:04:50.890 self -interested and has no real like totally 02:04:50.890 --> 02:04:53.590 narcissistic totally but that's that's how his 02:04:53.590 --> 02:04:56.550 father is too because his father is like all 02:04:56.550 --> 02:04:58.689 of his decisions are also based on like moving 02:04:58.689 --> 02:05:00.649 his career forward and like moving the family 02:05:00.649 --> 02:05:02.510 to a new place they don't want to go and whatever 02:05:02.510 --> 02:05:06.729 like yeah Why is he the person who gets to choose 02:05:06.729 --> 02:05:09.789 what happens? Why is his life the most important? 02:05:09.869 --> 02:05:11.630 It's because he's the genius. He's creating the 02:05:11.630 --> 02:05:13.369 novel thing. It's going to change the world. 02:05:13.489 --> 02:05:16.289 And IBM wants him to work. It's like, why is 02:05:16.289 --> 02:05:19.850 this stuff what's more important? Automatically. 02:05:20.250 --> 02:05:22.430 Yeah, I agree. I think that makes a lot of sense. 02:05:22.710 --> 02:05:25.630 Like his sister says, it's got to be hard to 02:05:25.630 --> 02:05:28.789 live. And I think this movie is very empathetic. 02:05:29.130 --> 02:05:30.989 to both of these characters and whatnot. Like, 02:05:30.989 --> 02:05:32.569 I don't think Spielberg's parents died and he 02:05:32.569 --> 02:05:33.930 was like, yeah, fuck them. I'm going to have 02:05:33.930 --> 02:05:35.729 fucking shit on them. Like, you know what I mean? 02:05:35.850 --> 02:05:38.409 But I think totally if you, if you watch, we 02:05:38.409 --> 02:05:39.909 were talking in the, in the ready to play one 02:05:39.909 --> 02:05:43.689 part about the Spielberg documentary on HBO and 02:05:43.689 --> 02:05:45.729 the parents are interviewed in that movie. They 02:05:45.729 --> 02:05:47.829 actually talk about this story in that movie 02:05:47.829 --> 02:05:50.550 about, you know, that there was the friend that 02:05:50.550 --> 02:05:53.409 the mom eventually ended up marrying and stuff 02:05:53.409 --> 02:05:57.159 and blah, blah, blah. Like, but The whole story 02:05:57.159 --> 02:05:59.840 is completely left out of that movie. He does 02:05:59.840 --> 02:06:02.600 not tell that he knew that his mom was cheating 02:06:02.600 --> 02:06:05.479 on his father with this guy and stuff like he, 02:06:05.500 --> 02:06:08.619 the timeline is different. He doesn't mention 02:06:08.619 --> 02:06:11.220 filming anything. He doesn't mention any of that. 02:06:11.899 --> 02:06:13.859 And it's really in this movie for the first time. 02:06:13.899 --> 02:06:15.460 He's kind of like, well, actually like, yeah, 02:06:15.539 --> 02:06:16.920 we, we told a little bit of a different story. 02:06:16.960 --> 02:06:20.380 The real story is this. Uh, I, I knew about it. 02:06:20.399 --> 02:06:22.340 I was on my mom's side. I kept secrets from my 02:06:22.340 --> 02:06:25.880 dad for years and whatever. Yeah. And I also 02:06:25.880 --> 02:06:27.840 think he's like, and you know, my parents were 02:06:27.840 --> 02:06:29.779 kind of a mess. Like he's like, he's kind of 02:06:29.779 --> 02:06:32.060 looking at this from like a, the distance of 02:06:32.060 --> 02:06:34.439 like having gone to therapy and been like, dude, 02:06:34.539 --> 02:06:38.060 like they weren't angels. Like this is, they're 02:06:38.060 --> 02:06:40.079 people, you know? And I'm, I'm empathetic to 02:06:40.079 --> 02:06:42.239 them or whatever, but like also my mom was a 02:06:42.239 --> 02:06:44.640 fucking disaster. You know what I mean? She was 02:06:44.640 --> 02:06:46.460 a person who would like leave her husband for 02:06:46.460 --> 02:06:48.920 his best friend and whatever. Like, and like, 02:06:48.979 --> 02:06:50.779 and we loved her and she was great. And it was 02:06:50.779 --> 02:06:52.319 so fun to hang out with her. And like, she got 02:06:52.319 --> 02:06:55.800 a monkey and whatever. but also like there is 02:06:55.800 --> 02:06:58.039 like a kind of distance now and an understanding 02:06:58.039 --> 02:07:00.000 of like, Oh, maybe that's why I'm so fucked up. 02:07:00.060 --> 02:07:03.060 Cause she's pretty crazy. And like, I'm like, 02:07:03.100 --> 02:07:06.020 and same with him. Like he's my, like my dad 02:07:06.020 --> 02:07:09.140 is like actually like has no ability to, you 02:07:09.140 --> 02:07:10.939 know, and him kind of dealing with that in this 02:07:10.939 --> 02:07:13.520 movie, I think is like, I don't know. I feel 02:07:13.520 --> 02:07:16.300 like, I feel like this movie started off differently 02:07:16.300 --> 02:07:19.039 than like, like, I don't think when he was writing 02:07:19.039 --> 02:07:22.000 it, he wanted. Michelle Williams's performance 02:07:22.000 --> 02:07:24.460 to be that crazy. But then he was like, no, actually 02:07:24.460 --> 02:07:26.020 dude, she was pretty crazy. Why don't you go 02:07:26.020 --> 02:07:28.199 bigger? Why don't you go weirder? Like, why don't 02:07:28.199 --> 02:07:30.319 you be a little more off putting and stuff? And 02:07:30.319 --> 02:07:32.279 that like becomes more like, I don't know. I 02:07:32.279 --> 02:07:35.000 also think this is a really like important core 02:07:35.000 --> 02:07:37.659 thing in the movie too, though, this idea of 02:07:37.659 --> 02:07:39.739 the parents being selfish and following their 02:07:39.739 --> 02:07:42.920 hearts because you have the whole entire Judd 02:07:42.920 --> 02:07:45.659 Hirsch scene, his uncle. Yeah. Who shows up. 02:07:46.090 --> 02:07:48.510 And, like, talks about how, like, art will ruin 02:07:48.510 --> 02:07:50.930 your life. Like, art and family don't work together. 02:07:51.130 --> 02:07:54.850 Like, it'll tear you apart. And how at the, you 02:07:54.850 --> 02:07:57.810 know, near the end of the movie when Mitzi is, 02:07:57.909 --> 02:08:00.069 like, has already left and I guess he's visiting 02:08:00.069 --> 02:08:02.649 her or something like that. And they're in the 02:08:02.649 --> 02:08:05.050 kitchen together. And she asks him to forgive 02:08:05.050 --> 02:08:07.189 her for, you know, when she slapped him on his 02:08:07.189 --> 02:08:09.670 back and stuff like that. But she says, like, 02:08:09.729 --> 02:08:11.829 something along the lines of, like, you don't 02:08:11.829 --> 02:08:15.239 owe anybody your life. Not even me. I think between 02:08:15.239 --> 02:08:17.380 that and like the Judd Hirsch scene and stuff 02:08:17.380 --> 02:08:19.539 like that, there's this real idea that like to 02:08:19.539 --> 02:08:23.920 be an artist or like to be great at all or to 02:08:23.920 --> 02:08:26.420 like achieve something or pursue a goal that's 02:08:26.420 --> 02:08:29.779 bigger than yourself or your family, you're going 02:08:29.779 --> 02:08:31.819 to fucking get hurt and you're going to hurt 02:08:31.819 --> 02:08:33.319 your family and you're going to hurt people. 02:08:33.460 --> 02:08:35.460 And like you might be the loneliest person on 02:08:35.460 --> 02:08:40.199 earth. And like he has to be. that person to 02:08:40.199 --> 02:08:42.800 go off to Hollywood and leave people behind and 02:08:42.800 --> 02:08:45.220 pursue his dreams. You know what I mean? Totally. 02:08:45.300 --> 02:08:48.720 He can't just stick around. Monica specifically 02:08:48.720 --> 02:08:51.659 says to him, Monica, the, the very religious 02:08:51.659 --> 02:08:55.260 Jesus freak girl that he tried that he says, 02:08:55.260 --> 02:08:57.680 yeah, I love you at the prom and ruins everything. 02:08:57.819 --> 02:09:01.659 She says, you know, sometimes we can't fix things. 02:09:01.720 --> 02:09:06.930 Sometimes you have to suffer. Like, uh, Furthermore, 02:09:07.069 --> 02:09:10.170 I think like you were saying, that maybe his 02:09:10.170 --> 02:09:11.930 final film is a triumph, but I think you could 02:09:11.930 --> 02:09:14.470 also argue that is also an expression of trauma 02:09:14.470 --> 02:09:16.630 too, but just done in a way more artful way that 02:09:16.630 --> 02:09:20.829 doesn't show it. It's very Spielbergian to show 02:09:20.829 --> 02:09:24.930 this film that's like funny and like showing 02:09:24.930 --> 02:09:28.090 this character as like an Adonis or whatever, 02:09:28.390 --> 02:09:31.210 the bully. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like afterwards, 02:09:31.430 --> 02:09:33.630 their conversation in the hallway, you can really 02:09:33.630 --> 02:09:36.609 tell that it's like, Nah, man, I was, like, pouring 02:09:36.609 --> 02:09:39.770 tons of my, like, frustrations about you guys 02:09:39.770 --> 02:09:42.289 into this. Right. You know what I mean? Right. 02:09:42.409 --> 02:09:44.430 And, like, playing this weird game, whether I 02:09:44.430 --> 02:09:46.210 knew it or not. Right. And it really, like, got 02:09:46.210 --> 02:09:49.430 under your skin, you know? And this is also one 02:09:49.430 --> 02:09:51.630 of the many scenes that actually happened. Like, 02:09:51.630 --> 02:09:53.949 you know what I mean? That literally he did make 02:09:53.949 --> 02:09:56.829 that movie of this guy in school that hated him. 02:09:56.869 --> 02:09:59.710 And, like, the guy did, like, come out. But I 02:09:59.710 --> 02:10:01.029 don't think the scene where they talk in the 02:10:01.029 --> 02:10:03.289 hallway afterwards happens. So in the hallway, 02:10:03.409 --> 02:10:06.250 apparently, he just cried and ran away. Um, and 02:10:06.250 --> 02:10:08.529 instead Spielberg was like, no, well now that 02:10:08.529 --> 02:10:10.149 we're making the movie, like let's have the actual 02:10:10.149 --> 02:10:12.890 conversation. Well, that's what he says in the 02:10:12.890 --> 02:10:14.369 scene too. He's like, I don't know why I did 02:10:14.369 --> 02:10:16.189 it. Like maybe I did it to make my movie better. 02:10:16.270 --> 02:10:19.050 I don't know. You know, like the one scene in 02:10:19.050 --> 02:10:20.770 the movie that didn't really happen is the scene 02:10:20.770 --> 02:10:22.729 where the character is like basically giving 02:10:22.729 --> 02:10:26.029 his treatise about how he sees his art. It's 02:10:26.029 --> 02:10:28.149 not, it's like almost a bit of a mystery to him 02:10:28.149 --> 02:10:30.619 as well. You know? Yeah. He's like, not really 02:10:30.619 --> 02:10:33.000 sure why he did it. He's not really sure why 02:10:33.000 --> 02:10:35.600 he made those decisions. Yeah. But largely it's 02:10:35.600 --> 02:10:38.960 based on trauma. Yeah, exactly. Like largely 02:10:38.960 --> 02:10:40.640 it's like, I made these decisions because of 02:10:40.640 --> 02:10:42.680 psychological trauma that happened to me when 02:10:42.680 --> 02:10:46.100 I was five years old. And like, that's why, you 02:10:46.100 --> 02:10:48.479 know what I mean? Which is like very different 02:10:48.479 --> 02:10:51.319 from like, you know, what you would think I would 02:10:51.319 --> 02:10:53.899 be saying, like after that ready player one conversation, 02:10:54.060 --> 02:10:55.619 it's a very different way of thinking about, 02:10:55.619 --> 02:10:58.420 you know, filmmaking. It's like. it's hard to 02:10:58.420 --> 02:11:00.439 think of the same guy who's sitting back and 02:11:00.439 --> 02:11:03.060 doing like a very analytical, like take on his 02:11:03.060 --> 02:11:05.359 whole career and blah, blah, blah. But like, 02:11:05.359 --> 02:11:08.920 these are the same guy. Cause there's the mom 02:11:08.920 --> 02:11:12.640 and there's the dad. Um, it was very much a Mitzi 02:11:12.640 --> 02:11:16.119 move to like pour all that, like frustration 02:11:16.119 --> 02:11:18.979 and emotion and trauma into the work about those 02:11:18.979 --> 02:11:21.680 bullies and whatever. But like, it was done in 02:11:21.680 --> 02:11:24.100 a way that was really smart and well engineered 02:11:24.100 --> 02:11:29.319 and like obfuscated. Exactly. Not obvious. Like 02:11:29.319 --> 02:11:32.640 something that only the bullies would get. You 02:11:32.640 --> 02:11:35.340 know what I mean? Totally. Totally. And I think 02:11:35.340 --> 02:11:37.140 one of the things that I think is really interesting 02:11:37.140 --> 02:11:40.460 about that scene is the way that it kind of affects 02:11:40.460 --> 02:11:42.560 the rest of Spielberg's career. Because to me, 02:11:42.579 --> 02:11:45.939 kind of the underlined point of that scene is 02:11:45.939 --> 02:11:48.420 like, dude, when Spielberg makes a movie about 02:11:48.420 --> 02:11:50.979 somebody and puts them on a pedestal, he doesn't 02:11:50.979 --> 02:11:52.720 always fucking put them on a pedestal. You know 02:11:52.720 --> 02:11:54.479 what I mean? Yeah, exactly. That doesn't mean 02:11:54.479 --> 02:11:58.500 he likes them. People like would never before 02:11:58.500 --> 02:12:00.460 this movie would never assume that Spielberg 02:12:00.460 --> 02:12:02.420 would make a movie about somebody and say, this 02:12:02.420 --> 02:12:06.739 is a great person. And then also be totally undermining 02:12:06.739 --> 02:12:09.560 that with every single scene in the movie. I 02:12:09.560 --> 02:12:11.420 think we did a pretty good job of describing 02:12:11.420 --> 02:12:14.300 how he did that in Schindler's List. Pretended 02:12:14.300 --> 02:12:16.220 he was making a movie about this great guy Schindler, 02:12:16.260 --> 02:12:18.239 but actually was making a movie about this banal 02:12:18.239 --> 02:12:20.720 piece of shit Schindler. But I think that he 02:12:20.720 --> 02:12:22.859 absolutely does that many times in his career. 02:12:23.000 --> 02:12:25.510 I've got a bunch of other. you know examples 02:12:25.510 --> 02:12:26.949 i kind of want to bring up but also would like 02:12:26.949 --> 02:12:29.770 to leave but i think that this movie completely 02:12:29.770 --> 02:12:32.050 after you know we said like watching ready player 02:12:32.050 --> 02:12:34.750 one i felt very validated in my you know view 02:12:34.750 --> 02:12:37.149 of spielberg and his movies and the way that 02:12:37.149 --> 02:12:39.109 he talks about things then watching this one 02:12:39.109 --> 02:12:40.609 was just kind of like oh yeah well that was the 02:12:40.609 --> 02:12:42.949 whole point like the whole like final statement 02:12:42.949 --> 02:12:45.329 of this movie is just like yeah dude like if 02:12:45.329 --> 02:12:47.729 i put something on a pedestal like it's not for 02:12:48.590 --> 02:12:51.170 I don't know. There's always layers. You know 02:12:51.170 --> 02:12:53.489 what I mean? There's always layers and there's 02:12:53.489 --> 02:12:55.630 the movie is the thing that's first. And what 02:12:55.630 --> 02:12:57.649 the movie can be is an engineered conversation 02:12:57.649 --> 02:13:00.369 about something. It can be an emotional, you 02:13:00.369 --> 02:13:02.810 know, experience of something. It's really, it 02:13:02.810 --> 02:13:06.909 should be both, but the, it's not just to kind 02:13:06.909 --> 02:13:09.630 of say something about something that everybody 02:13:09.630 --> 02:13:12.229 understands, you know, it's about to, it's about 02:13:12.229 --> 02:13:16.029 like really, it's about the process of experiencing 02:13:16.029 --> 02:13:20.029 and engaging with that. art form that he just 02:13:20.029 --> 02:13:22.369 like has a psychological connection with like 02:13:22.369 --> 02:13:23.789 a freudian connection yeah when you say this 02:13:23.789 --> 02:13:25.810 whole thing about like putting someone on a pedestal 02:13:25.810 --> 02:13:27.449 and whether or not he actually respects them 02:13:27.449 --> 02:13:30.470 like the john ford scene at the end is like amazing 02:13:30.470 --> 02:13:35.130 oh yeah yeah it's such a like it's such an interesting 02:13:35.130 --> 02:13:37.489 scene that i still don't really have entirely 02:13:37.489 --> 02:13:40.210 unpacked dude i mean i'll tell you what spielberg 02:13:40.210 --> 02:13:42.390 has to say about it is like literally that's 02:13:42.390 --> 02:13:43.710 word for word what happened when he met john 02:13:43.710 --> 02:13:46.510 ford of course of course so it's maybe like you 02:13:46.510 --> 02:13:48.649 know it was it was actually like his uncle's 02:13:48.649 --> 02:13:51.050 friend that like was the meeting that he was 02:13:51.050 --> 02:13:53.149 supposed to go to but like across the hall was 02:13:53.149 --> 02:13:54.670 john ford and he like went to this meeting with 02:13:54.670 --> 02:13:56.489 this guy and this guy was like literally was 02:13:56.489 --> 02:13:58.449 like i know your uncle set me up with you but 02:13:58.449 --> 02:13:59.770 like you don't want to talk to me i'm just like 02:13:59.770 --> 02:14:02.109 you know you want to talk to is this guy like 02:14:02.109 --> 02:14:05.090 just wait till he gets in it's fine and then 02:14:05.090 --> 02:14:07.510 he like figured out it was john ford like because 02:14:07.510 --> 02:14:09.250 they just kept calling him jack apparently where's 02:14:09.250 --> 02:14:12.380 the horizon line Yeah, but that's literally word 02:14:12.380 --> 02:14:15.840 for word, according to Spielberg, who's a storyteller. 02:14:16.420 --> 02:14:18.819 But he claims that's word for word what happened. 02:14:18.899 --> 02:14:20.720 And I've actually heard him tell that story before, 02:14:20.779 --> 02:14:23.739 and it was pretty close. There's something really 02:14:23.739 --> 02:14:28.380 interesting about that. That ending, the idea 02:14:28.380 --> 02:14:30.340 that that was word for word is really beautiful 02:14:30.340 --> 02:14:33.840 because it does just seem so poetic when you 02:14:33.840 --> 02:14:36.279 connect it to the rest of the themes of the movie 02:14:36.279 --> 02:14:38.880 and that scene in the hallway with the bully. 02:14:39.790 --> 02:14:42.970 Because John Ford is openly admitting to the 02:14:42.970 --> 02:14:44.890 fact that his movies don't mean anything. It's 02:14:44.890 --> 02:14:46.970 all based on where the horizon line is. It's 02:14:46.970 --> 02:14:49.210 something really banal. It's something really 02:14:49.210 --> 02:14:53.189 superficial that's determining his aesthetic 02:14:53.189 --> 02:14:57.670 quality. What do you know about art? I would 02:14:57.670 --> 02:15:02.489 say part of this, dude, is the real... cohesion 02:15:02.489 --> 02:15:04.550 of the mother and father there you know what 02:15:04.550 --> 02:15:06.970 i mean it's really like dude you know i know 02:15:06.970 --> 02:15:09.250 your mom was like this thing to get you away 02:15:09.250 --> 02:15:11.430 from your dad or whatever but like really it's 02:15:11.430 --> 02:15:13.270 just there's these rules and it's this thing 02:15:13.270 --> 02:15:15.069 and it's engineering and stuff i mean he already 02:15:15.069 --> 02:15:17.390 knows this to a certain degree like because he's 02:15:17.390 --> 02:15:19.229 been engineering these projects and whatever 02:15:19.930 --> 02:15:22.649 But well, he's actually trying to describe what's 02:15:22.649 --> 02:15:24.170 happening in the painting. And he's just like, 02:15:24.189 --> 02:15:28.210 no. Yeah. Like, talk about the engineering. Talk 02:15:28.210 --> 02:15:31.050 about the design. Like, exactly. Exactly. The 02:15:31.050 --> 02:15:33.029 perspective. Where's the horizon line? It's like 02:15:33.029 --> 02:15:35.109 perspective. Perspective is important. You don't 02:15:35.109 --> 02:15:36.970 just shoot something flat. It has to be dynamic. 02:15:37.149 --> 02:15:39.390 There has to be like, you know. Yeah. And it's 02:15:39.390 --> 02:15:41.329 like, yeah, it's a simple lesson that like is 02:15:41.329 --> 02:15:43.329 kind of like superficial and banal, but also 02:15:43.329 --> 02:15:47.560 super meaningful. It actually does open your 02:15:47.560 --> 02:15:49.600 eyes to something really simple but effective 02:15:49.600 --> 02:15:53.600 about how art works. Right. Totally. Totally. 02:15:53.880 --> 02:15:56.680 It's like the horizon line's low, therefore the 02:15:56.680 --> 02:15:58.159 perspective we're getting on these characters 02:15:58.159 --> 02:16:02.800 changes and says something about them. It's evocative 02:16:02.800 --> 02:16:06.359 in some way. But I like that he doesn't have 02:16:06.359 --> 02:16:08.840 any rules either. It's just boring and interesting 02:16:08.840 --> 02:16:14.000 as shit. Yeah, exactly. And then the final little 02:16:14.000 --> 02:16:18.199 joke to just like shift the horizon line, the 02:16:18.199 --> 02:16:20.380 last shot or whatever. It's very cute. It's such 02:16:20.380 --> 02:16:24.859 a like cute ending. Yeah. That apparently was 02:16:24.859 --> 02:16:27.819 Spielberg trying to, he like asked his cam op 02:16:27.819 --> 02:16:29.939 to do it. And the cam operator just like did 02:16:29.939 --> 02:16:31.680 it way too smoothly. And he was like, all right, 02:16:31.680 --> 02:16:34.459 fuck you. I'll do it. And then he tried to do 02:16:34.459 --> 02:16:36.219 it, but he also did it way too smoothly. So they 02:16:36.219 --> 02:16:39.219 had some digital people like zoom it in 80, like 02:16:39.219 --> 02:16:43.360 8 % and make it more jittery. That's a digital 02:16:43.360 --> 02:16:47.309 jitter to make it less smooth. That's really 02:16:47.309 --> 02:16:50.069 funny. Yeah. I mean like that. It's such a like, 02:16:50.149 --> 02:16:53.450 I couldn't get to the authenticness at this point 02:16:53.450 --> 02:16:57.129 of being just a kid with a camera. So I had to 02:16:57.129 --> 02:17:00.270 get like ILM to come in and digitally like enhance 02:17:00.270 --> 02:17:03.530 my, yeah. Digitally de -hance the shot. Which 02:17:03.530 --> 02:17:05.430 almost seems like, dude, that's almost, that 02:17:05.430 --> 02:17:07.510 almost seems like a made up story that is making 02:17:07.510 --> 02:17:09.629 some sort of great point. You know what I mean? 02:17:10.270 --> 02:17:12.250 Which Spielberg I think does. It does make a 02:17:12.250 --> 02:17:14.709 great point. Yeah. But I think it's, I think 02:17:14.709 --> 02:17:18.030 it's pretty fascinating. Like it, That's an interesting 02:17:18.030 --> 02:17:19.709 guy. In a lot of ways, we just covered the whole 02:17:19.709 --> 02:17:23.010 movie. But there are a lot of awesome details 02:17:23.010 --> 02:17:26.389 in this movie. I really like how... You know 02:17:26.389 --> 02:17:29.649 how Ready Player One barely references Spielberg's 02:17:29.649 --> 02:17:32.170 own work? But The Fableman's references his own 02:17:32.170 --> 02:17:36.510 work a lot. Okay. Like where? I mean, there's 02:17:36.510 --> 02:17:40.989 the closet from E .T. They're in the closet when 02:17:40.989 --> 02:17:43.049 he makes the ghost come out of the closet or 02:17:43.049 --> 02:17:47.120 whatever. It's like they're not like... direct 02:17:47.120 --> 02:17:48.979 no no i totally i totally know what you're saying 02:17:48.979 --> 02:17:51.920 references yeah yeah but like the the closet 02:17:51.920 --> 02:17:55.719 is the closet from et and like the when when 02:17:55.719 --> 02:17:58.180 mitzi puts all the kids in the car to drive towards 02:17:58.180 --> 02:17:59.959 the tornado and they stop at the intersection 02:17:59.959 --> 02:18:02.559 all the carts go by that's close encounters and 02:18:02.559 --> 02:18:06.030 yeah you know like when when they're like in 02:18:06.030 --> 02:18:07.969 the desert collecting the scorpions that's indiana 02:18:07.969 --> 02:18:10.270 jones and like like when they're on the beach 02:18:10.270 --> 02:18:12.190 that's jaws and you know what i mean like yeah 02:18:12.190 --> 02:18:14.209 but this is the thing man is like i think i think 02:18:14.209 --> 02:18:16.049 these are conversations that he had with toady 02:18:16.049 --> 02:18:18.969 coaster and chose the ones that like actually 02:18:18.969 --> 02:18:20.989 did inspire things and whatever but like i think 02:18:20.989 --> 02:18:23.850 i think like it's it's almost the opposite it's 02:18:23.850 --> 02:18:26.770 almost like no those were all referencing this 02:18:27.360 --> 02:18:28.420 You know, that's what's so interesting about 02:18:28.420 --> 02:18:30.079 this movie is because I think a lot of this is 02:18:30.079 --> 02:18:32.579 literally just like his literal real journals. 02:18:32.620 --> 02:18:34.440 And it's like, oh, let's just include the shit 02:18:34.440 --> 02:18:36.340 that like always inspired me to like become all 02:18:36.340 --> 02:18:38.659 these things. So like it does reveal all this. 02:18:38.760 --> 02:18:41.360 I love that about it. It's like the best type 02:18:41.360 --> 02:18:44.739 of reference. You know what I mean? um yeah exactly 02:18:44.739 --> 02:18:46.600 because it's not even a it's just like uh you 02:18:46.600 --> 02:18:49.059 know this is kind of why these movies exist and 02:18:49.059 --> 02:18:51.040 like now you can kind of go back and watch and 02:18:51.040 --> 02:18:52.540 that's that's like what i was saying about ready 02:18:52.540 --> 02:18:54.879 player one being like kind of like an eyes wide 02:18:54.879 --> 02:18:56.440 shut that's like giving you a new perspective 02:18:56.440 --> 02:18:59.440 on his career like this is the like step further 02:18:59.440 --> 02:19:01.459 than that that like kubrick never even got to 02:19:01.459 --> 02:19:04.159 of just kind of like yo here's my therapy like 02:19:04.159 --> 02:19:07.299 tapes you know what i mean here's just like literally 02:19:07.299 --> 02:19:10.739 all of me now so like i'm not even hiding anything 02:19:10.739 --> 02:19:14.479 anymore like you can find even more Then I tried 02:19:14.479 --> 02:19:18.299 to put in there, in there. Uh, if you actually, 02:19:18.319 --> 02:19:21.559 I don't know. I like that. It's a, it's an interesting 02:19:21.559 --> 02:19:23.540 approach for somebody who's been very guarded 02:19:23.540 --> 02:19:26.000 their whole career. Never told this story, never 02:19:26.000 --> 02:19:28.500 talked about like most of these things. I mean, 02:19:28.520 --> 02:19:31.420 he's, he's always talked in sound bites and like 02:19:31.420 --> 02:19:35.100 really, you know, the first, the Spielberg documentary 02:19:35.100 --> 02:19:38.969 was really like a. pretty revealing thing um 02:19:38.969 --> 02:19:41.129 when it came out during ready player one and 02:19:41.129 --> 02:19:43.549 yeah i mean like his parents weren't like this 02:19:43.549 --> 02:19:46.229 is so much more obviously sorry if he's anything 02:19:46.229 --> 02:19:47.610 like his parents they're not they're holding 02:19:47.610 --> 02:19:49.510 secrets they're not like opening their hearts 02:19:49.510 --> 02:19:52.549 yeah like mitzi like seems like the kind of person 02:19:52.549 --> 02:19:54.170 who's open but she's not she's holding secrets 02:19:54.170 --> 02:19:56.790 she's lying she's like she's a borderline personality 02:19:56.790 --> 02:20:01.010 like narcissist like crazy person who's completely 02:20:01.010 --> 02:20:04.639 i really like how um grandma fableman at one 02:20:04.639 --> 02:20:06.940 point says like deep down inside of me is none 02:20:06.940 --> 02:20:14.059 of your business i love how she like doesn't 02:20:14.059 --> 02:20:16.399 clean the table and stuff they just like pick 02:20:16.399 --> 02:20:20.309 up the uh the plastic cover and just throw it 02:20:20.309 --> 02:20:23.989 all out. Yeah. Yeah. It's she, she like refuses 02:20:23.989 --> 02:20:27.770 all of the jobs of like homemaker and whatever. 02:20:28.129 --> 02:20:30.909 And, and, you know, like, and mother and whatever, 02:20:31.030 --> 02:20:33.309 like she's, she's totally just like another one 02:20:33.309 --> 02:20:37.610 of the kids. And like, that's fine because dad's 02:20:37.610 --> 02:20:39.930 so in love with her. She buys, she, she buys 02:20:39.930 --> 02:20:43.469 that monkey and calls it Denny. Yeah. That was 02:20:43.469 --> 02:20:45.870 like a weird psychological punishment. Yeah. 02:20:45.930 --> 02:20:48.250 Yeah. That was another interesting moment, too, 02:20:48.329 --> 02:20:52.010 that I think is sort of really layered as well, 02:20:52.069 --> 02:20:53.709 is when Mitzi is talking about the monkey at 02:20:53.709 --> 02:20:56.309 dinner, and she's like, they know important stuff, 02:20:56.569 --> 02:20:59.229 and they're not letting us in on it. And then 02:20:59.229 --> 02:21:01.510 Bert's like, self -possession. And she's like, 02:21:01.549 --> 02:21:04.290 right, they belong to themselves. Which also 02:21:04.290 --> 02:21:05.930 connects to the whole, you don't owe your life 02:21:05.930 --> 02:21:08.350 to anyone, not even me, and the whole keeping 02:21:08.350 --> 02:21:12.489 secrets, and that only you know yourself, and 02:21:12.489 --> 02:21:14.489 no one will ever truly know you, and stuff like 02:21:14.489 --> 02:21:18.239 that. It's like the rules of attraction all of 02:21:18.239 --> 02:21:20.819 a sudden. It's the rules of attraction all of 02:21:20.819 --> 02:21:26.219 a sudden. Nobody knows anybody. Nope. That's 02:21:26.219 --> 02:21:29.020 kind of true. That's one of the scary things 02:21:29.020 --> 02:21:34.479 about life in general, making connections. I 02:21:34.479 --> 02:21:37.020 think that's something that Spielberg fears. 02:21:37.360 --> 02:21:40.360 I know he eventually married and had kids and 02:21:40.360 --> 02:21:42.760 got a divorce. Did he marry again? I don't know. 02:21:43.049 --> 02:21:46.129 He seems like the kind of person who's had sort 02:21:46.129 --> 02:21:50.329 of tumultuous personal relationships and has 02:21:50.329 --> 02:21:52.270 had a hard time balancing those out with his 02:21:52.270 --> 02:21:55.649 career. Certainly. I mean, you got way into that 02:21:55.649 --> 02:21:59.809 in Hook. Yeah, once again, reference Hook. But 02:21:59.809 --> 02:22:04.530 it's a scary thing. The idea that you wouldn't 02:22:04.530 --> 02:22:06.909 know your parents. You think you know your mother 02:22:06.909 --> 02:22:08.469 or you know your father or whatever, and then 02:22:08.469 --> 02:22:12.540 they have this dark secret. completely upends 02:22:12.540 --> 02:22:14.579 your entire reality and how you thought about 02:22:14.579 --> 02:22:18.100 them and learning to accept that kind of thing 02:22:18.100 --> 02:22:20.620 even if you do like that's a trauma that's like 02:22:20.620 --> 02:22:22.799 a fear he'll have his entire life of just like 02:22:22.799 --> 02:22:27.000 never truly knowing people and like maybe not 02:22:27.000 --> 02:22:29.280 even ever truly knowing himself not being like 02:22:29.280 --> 02:22:31.979 incredibly certain why he's making certain decisions 02:22:31.979 --> 02:22:36.420 he is totally totally even his entire thing with 02:22:36.420 --> 02:22:39.879 monica is so desperate dude just like I don't 02:22:39.879 --> 02:22:41.700 know. Wanting to be her girlfriend and saying 02:22:41.700 --> 02:22:43.719 I love you and whatever. I don't know. I think 02:22:43.719 --> 02:22:49.659 that's normal. She was hot. I mean, sure, but... 02:22:49.659 --> 02:22:53.500 No, yeah, I think there's plenty there with the... 02:22:54.459 --> 02:22:56.379 He didn't, he didn't know her very, like he was 02:22:56.379 --> 02:22:58.360 dating for two weeks, took her to prom, said, 02:22:58.459 --> 02:23:00.479 I love you. And like, it was like trying to like 02:23:00.479 --> 02:23:02.459 create some kind of like idea in his head that 02:23:02.459 --> 02:23:04.120 she was the one for him and that she'd like go 02:23:04.120 --> 02:23:05.360 somewhere. And it's like totally delusional, 02:23:05.440 --> 02:23:07.280 you know? Yeah, no, of course. And it's like, 02:23:07.319 --> 02:23:09.299 it comes from this sort of, it comes from his 02:23:09.299 --> 02:23:11.139 traumas and fear surrounding his parents and 02:23:11.139 --> 02:23:13.459 their divorce and like the not knowing people 02:23:13.459 --> 02:23:15.159 and connecting to people and just really like 02:23:15.159 --> 02:23:18.799 needing that, the validation from someone that 02:23:18.799 --> 02:23:24.379 like something is real or whatever. Yeah. But 02:23:24.379 --> 02:23:26.600 he continually gets validation through his filmmaking 02:23:26.600 --> 02:23:29.659 now. That's one of the things that he's continually 02:23:29.659 --> 02:23:34.079 validated for. I love that after the movie, she's 02:23:34.079 --> 02:23:36.659 looking for him. And Sheila can't find him. He's 02:23:36.659 --> 02:23:39.340 in the hallway with the bully. But she's just 02:23:39.340 --> 02:23:41.899 like, fuck, where'd he go? I do want to get married. 02:23:42.959 --> 02:23:45.920 I like that Spielberg's making the movie. And 02:23:45.920 --> 02:23:50.139 he's like, yeah, make that bitch come back. That's 02:23:50.139 --> 02:23:52.840 so funny. Yeah. That's definitely some wish fulfillment 02:23:52.840 --> 02:23:56.639 right there. There's gotta be some here and there. 02:23:57.879 --> 02:24:01.540 And even though it's like not a big part of the 02:24:01.540 --> 02:24:04.239 movie directly, just like the dad's whole involvement 02:24:04.239 --> 02:24:07.620 with IBM and stuff is really like speaks when 02:24:07.620 --> 02:24:10.059 you talk about like, I don't know, like when 02:24:10.059 --> 02:24:13.459 I, when I think like IOI, I think IBM, you know, 02:24:13.600 --> 02:24:16.440 whatever. Yeah. Or, like, I think IBM, and I 02:24:16.440 --> 02:24:18.319 think about 2001 even or whatever. You know, 02:24:18.360 --> 02:24:20.799 it's just like there's so many weird things about, 02:24:20.840 --> 02:24:23.319 like, his dad's involvement with IBM. Yeah, with, 02:24:23.399 --> 02:24:25.920 like, the most sinister, like, company that helped 02:24:25.920 --> 02:24:28.959 kill the Jews. Like, you know what I mean? Like, 02:24:28.959 --> 02:24:31.500 20 years after they were, like, collaborating 02:24:31.500 --> 02:24:33.780 with the Nazis to organize the Holocaust, and 02:24:33.780 --> 02:24:36.059 his dad is very much an ICME character. Like, 02:24:36.079 --> 02:24:38.700 yeah, I mean, I think that's something that I'm 02:24:38.700 --> 02:24:40.479 sure he's had to contend with. I don't think 02:24:40.479 --> 02:24:43.139 he's, you know, really talking about that too 02:24:43.139 --> 02:24:45.540 much in this movie or whatever. But I think that 02:24:45.540 --> 02:24:48.260 there's an understanding that Spielberg has and 02:24:48.260 --> 02:24:50.620 Kubrick has and that Spielberg has of Kubrick's 02:24:50.620 --> 02:24:52.159 work and whatnot, that there's something that 02:24:52.159 --> 02:24:54.979 connects those guys ideologically, especially 02:24:54.979 --> 02:24:57.680 their understanding of Silicon Valley as fucking 02:24:57.680 --> 02:25:02.500 evil, you know, people. Even if, I don't know, 02:25:02.540 --> 02:25:04.500 even if he likes his father or whatever, it's 02:25:04.500 --> 02:25:08.280 like, it's still like, you know, he's got to 02:25:08.280 --> 02:25:11.540 know that's evil, right? Like helping to birth 02:25:11.540 --> 02:25:14.760 the Antichrist that is. the internet i don't 02:25:14.760 --> 02:25:18.700 know yeah well i mean his father's like a schindler 02:25:18.700 --> 02:25:20.659 as well i guess or something i don't know it's 02:25:20.659 --> 02:25:23.819 just like i mean we contain multitudes we're 02:25:23.819 --> 02:25:27.840 paradoxes you know yeah you know hitler had loved 02:25:27.840 --> 02:25:32.780 ones too i guess like i know i know kanye was 02:25:32.780 --> 02:25:39.700 one of them who kanye oh kanye well you can't 02:25:39.700 --> 02:25:42.100 just love something you also have to take care 02:25:42.100 --> 02:25:44.489 of it Yeah, that's the two things, right? That's 02:25:44.489 --> 02:25:47.790 the mom and the dad. Exactly. You can't just 02:25:47.790 --> 02:25:49.430 take care of it and not love it either, though. 02:25:50.870 --> 02:25:59.110 I think because of how sincere, earnest, and 02:25:59.110 --> 02:26:04.489 hard on its sleeve this movie is, it doesn't 02:26:04.489 --> 02:26:09.829 obfuscate as much. It really is so... It's almost 02:26:09.829 --> 02:26:11.889 the thing people have criticized Spielberg for 02:26:11.889 --> 02:26:16.870 doing his whole career. You know? It's what people 02:26:16.870 --> 02:26:18.229 have criticized him for doing his whole career? 02:26:19.069 --> 02:26:21.430 It's just earnest and sincere, yeah. I don't 02:26:21.430 --> 02:26:23.750 think it obfuscates a deeper meaning in the way 02:26:23.750 --> 02:26:25.690 that Ready Player One does or most of his movies. 02:26:26.670 --> 02:26:29.629 But I might be wrong. It could be one of the 02:26:29.629 --> 02:26:31.930 most complex movies he's made. Yeah, I mean, 02:26:31.930 --> 02:26:33.309 I think I think it is. I think it is one of the 02:26:33.309 --> 02:26:34.969 most complex movies he's made. But I think that 02:26:34.969 --> 02:26:37.030 he's searching with it. You know what I mean? 02:26:37.309 --> 02:26:40.450 I think that we as the audience are with Spielberg 02:26:40.450 --> 02:26:42.329 kind of looking at his whole life and trying 02:26:42.329 --> 02:26:45.129 to like find these things. And yeah, like it's 02:26:45.129 --> 02:26:47.110 the life that he's created as the representation 02:26:47.110 --> 02:26:49.780 of his life. It's not his real life. And that 02:26:49.780 --> 02:26:52.299 brings a, you know, layer of like, well, then 02:26:52.299 --> 02:26:54.299 there's even more meaning in all of these things 02:26:54.299 --> 02:26:56.700 that probably connects to what he's trying to 02:26:56.700 --> 02:26:59.159 say about his real life and his the creation 02:26:59.159 --> 02:27:00.899 of an artist. You know what I mean? The things 02:27:00.899 --> 02:27:03.579 that are necessary to create the ingredients 02:27:03.579 --> 02:27:07.600 that are necessary to create an artist. Yeah, 02:27:07.700 --> 02:27:10.360 exactly. I mean, I guess that's like a pretty 02:27:10.360 --> 02:27:15.959 common refrain. Is that like art kind of comes 02:27:15.959 --> 02:27:20.010 from pain or that like. you know it's like the 02:27:20.010 --> 02:27:22.829 struggle i think i think it comes from a psychological 02:27:22.829 --> 02:27:25.409 process like you know what i mean that's that's 02:27:25.409 --> 02:27:26.950 the thing that i think is so interesting is that 02:27:26.950 --> 02:27:29.950 it's like it's a trauma response thing it's a 02:27:29.950 --> 02:27:33.950 self -soothing it's a it's a recreating the trauma 02:27:33.950 --> 02:27:36.409 in order to re -experience the trauma in order 02:27:36.409 --> 02:27:38.129 to have control over the trauma it's like the 02:27:38.129 --> 02:27:41.489 same reason that people like you know self -mutilate 02:27:41.489 --> 02:27:42.569 or something like you know what i mean they're 02:27:42.569 --> 02:27:45.250 like all sorts of toxic problems it's the reason 02:27:45.250 --> 02:27:47.979 that you like you know, beat your kids because 02:27:47.979 --> 02:27:50.299 you were beat as a kid or something. The same 02:27:50.299 --> 02:27:53.579 processes of like childhood trauma creates somebody 02:27:53.579 --> 02:27:55.780 who wants to create the childhood trauma or whatever. 02:27:56.020 --> 02:27:57.959 It's just that this got filtered in this very 02:27:57.959 --> 02:28:00.319 specific way by these very specific people in 02:28:00.319 --> 02:28:01.940 this very specific time and this very specific 02:28:01.940 --> 02:28:05.219 place that allows to create this like weird fucking 02:28:05.219 --> 02:28:08.579 anomaly person that like can do this thing. And 02:28:08.579 --> 02:28:09.540 I think that's what's interesting when we were 02:28:09.540 --> 02:28:12.299 talking about Ready Player One is like. we don't 02:28:12.299 --> 02:28:14.620 have any new interesting things coming out today 02:28:14.620 --> 02:28:18.620 like who like what sort of setting creates this 02:28:18.620 --> 02:28:21.959 like allows for the rise of these artists you 02:28:21.959 --> 02:28:24.719 know what i mean to like create these real original 02:28:24.719 --> 02:28:27.879 works and stuff and i think that's a great discussion 02:28:27.879 --> 02:28:29.440 of that and i think this is really the discussion 02:28:29.440 --> 02:28:32.479 not so much of like what sort of time and place 02:28:32.479 --> 02:28:35.040 uh allows for those artists but like what creates 02:28:35.040 --> 02:28:36.899 the artists themselves you know what i mean and 02:28:36.899 --> 02:28:39.260 like he's kind of just like yeah i can't really 02:28:39.260 --> 02:28:41.600 tell you but like i could tell you my fucking 02:28:41.600 --> 02:28:44.840 story and like i've got my you know theories 02:28:44.840 --> 02:28:46.920 about it whatever but then and then like and 02:28:46.920 --> 02:28:48.260 then i think he's just like yo let's just be 02:28:48.260 --> 02:28:50.420 unblinkingly honest about this story actually 02:28:50.420 --> 02:28:53.420 like let's really like be really self -critical 02:28:53.420 --> 02:28:55.319 about this story let's really own up to like 02:28:55.319 --> 02:28:57.159 the things that i did that were shitty and like 02:28:57.159 --> 02:28:59.559 the way that my mom's shitty too actually like 02:28:59.559 --> 02:29:01.479 i she's the person i love most in the world but 02:29:01.479 --> 02:29:04.610 let's be really fucking honest about this Yeah, 02:29:04.670 --> 02:29:07.510 dude. You should probably act a little more off 02:29:07.510 --> 02:29:09.590 -putting because everybody who ever met my mom 02:29:09.590 --> 02:29:12.270 was kind of off -putting. Every woman who ever 02:29:12.270 --> 02:29:15.950 met my mom was kind of off -put by her. Yeah, 02:29:15.950 --> 02:29:22.670 yeah. I think that's why I really wanted to pair 02:29:22.670 --> 02:29:25.209 these movies for that reason. I think they're 02:29:25.209 --> 02:29:28.590 the most personal, the most self -referential 02:29:28.590 --> 02:29:33.959 of his films. far um and reveal huge amounts 02:29:33.959 --> 02:29:35.639 of what came before and whatever but like they're 02:29:35.639 --> 02:29:37.959 also completely different in so many different 02:29:37.959 --> 02:29:40.059 ways it's almost like ready player one's the 02:29:40.059 --> 02:29:42.459 dad movie and fableman's is the mom movie or 02:29:42.459 --> 02:29:45.540 something you know what i mean um yeah yeah that 02:29:45.540 --> 02:29:47.520 makes sense there's his dad and there's daddy 02:29:47.520 --> 02:29:49.659 kubrick and whatever but there's his mom and 02:29:49.659 --> 02:29:52.079 there's mommy i don't know fucking trefo properly 02:29:52.079 --> 02:29:59.250 um but there's oh yeah trefo and fucking Close 02:29:59.250 --> 02:30:00.510 Encounters and stuff. We've got to do a Close 02:30:00.510 --> 02:30:01.930 Encounter. We've got to do a lot of Spielberg 02:30:01.930 --> 02:30:04.889 episodes. Hopefully they'll be more concise than 02:30:04.889 --> 02:30:06.610 this one. I was all over the place. How are you 02:30:06.610 --> 02:30:09.190 feeling about this? I'm feeling okay about this. 02:30:09.649 --> 02:30:13.350 Well, I hope you all enjoyed it. Would you say 02:30:13.350 --> 02:30:43.940 that's that? I'd say that's that, Magisman. Thank 02:30:43.940 --> 02:30:45.340 you.