WEBVTT

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No, no, no, man. Man… I want to make movies out of

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blood, —The origin— sperm, and tears. And purpose, still a total mystery. I do believe it went out. I got- I got- I got to talking so much I clean forgot about… Dude, that doesn't make

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any sense. What? I’ll dance a jig, I swear to Christ. White

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lines in the middle of the road. Long as the

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bar is Philadelphia. Plenty of sausage and pepperonis. Everything

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but the little fishies. Okay, here we are. Welcome,

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everybody, to Everything But the Little Fishies,

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your favorite subversive analysis podcast. Welcome,

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welcome. We're here to talk about Shampoo, 1975,

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and Red Rocket from 2021. How would you like

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to start this one off, Lunchbox? I mean, we should

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probably start with Shampoo, right? We do a chronological

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thing generally. Sure. If that's the way we do

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it, that's the way we do. Let's do. Yeah, this

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one was your suggestion, right? Like you'd seen

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Shampoo for the first time recently. So I guess,

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why was it you, I don't know, what did you think

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of Shampoo? I watched Shampoo because it was

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available on Amazon Prime and I, you know. I

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had heard like Breddy Sinellis mentioned it a

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lot. And like other directors have mentioned

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this movie as kind of like a formative movie

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for them. Yeah. Matthew Weiner too. Yeah. Matthew

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Weiner. So it was one that was kind of just like

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floating around as something that I wanted to

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watch eventually. And it was like, Oh, this is

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available. Cool. I'm going to do this. And I

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never even knew that it was a Hal Ashby movie.

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Um, and I've really liked every other Hal Ashby

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movie I've seen. Which have you seen? I haven't

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seen that many, but I've seen Harold and Maude,

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The Last Detail. Judd Apatow's favorite comedy,

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The Last Detail. And then Being There. Yeah,

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yeah. Very different movies, all three of those.

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Oh, yeah. But I can kind of see, that's why I

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really didn't even know these were all Hal Ashby

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movies. It really didn't come together for me

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until I watched Shampoo and I looked at his filmography

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and I was like, holy shit, this period from like...

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What is it? Basically the 70s into the early

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80s seems like a very pivotal point in Hal Ashby's

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career. Yeah, because he died. A lot of those

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movies are... Oh, yeah. Well, no, he made a few

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more movies, but they're just not talked about

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really. Yeah. But you're right. He did die. Yeah,

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I guess that's true. I haven't seen some of these

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later 80s things. But that period in the 70s

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of like... I guess it starts with The Landlord,

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which I've also heard people talk about. Yeah,

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which I still haven't seen. That's the one I

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haven't seen. Yeah, but The Landlord and The

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Last Detail and Shampoo and Harold and Maude

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and Being There. I was excited to watch Shampoo

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because now I feel like there's only a few more

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Hal Ashby movies I need to watch and I could

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be a completionist about him. Oh, totally, totally.

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But I love The Last Detail. Being There is amazing.

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Harold and Maude is... Just like a classic dark

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comedy that just has a really unique vibe. Totally.

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I mean, I would also suggest Bound for Glory

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is awesome. His Woody Guthrie biopic is like

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really, really great from that period. And Coming

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Home is like, you know, it's a sappy, you know,

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movie to make people cry or whatever, but it

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does that so well. Some people hate that movie

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for being that sappy, but I think it just nails

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its thing so hard. But I do think all of these

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movies are very different from each other. And

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it kind of wasn't until I was watching this and

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kind of trying to think about it. Think about

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Hal Ashby as an auteur. He doesn't really choose

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projects that are similar. And people kind of

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talk about him as the type of director who isn't

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really an auteur. he does what's best for the

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project sort of thing. And I think the truth

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kind of lies somewhere in between those, where

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I think that there are things that tie all these

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movies together, but I think of them more in

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thematic ways or his sort of political viewpoint

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or something like that, more so than style or

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format or choice of subject or genre or anything

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like that. I think that he's like... He's one

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of these guys who was, you know, a hippie -ass

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director in the, you know, early 70s. Where he's

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just, like, known for being stoned as fuck all

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day long. Just, like, constantly smoking a joint

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on set and stuff. And, like, that fits. You know

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what I mean? But I think it fits ideologically.

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Like, I think it's, like, he sides with those

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people and stuff. And so, even though all of

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his movies are very different, it all still comes

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from, like, a stoner who's kind of sitting there,

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like... laughing about it. You know what I mean?

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And having a good time. Sure. I don't know. I

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would say out of all the other Ashby films I've

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seen, Shampoo reminds me the most of The Last

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Detail. I can't quite explain why. Okay. There's

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something kind of about the sadness of The Last

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Detail that I feel, that I really feel in Shampoo

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as well. Totally. I mean, I think there's the

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same sadness in Harold and Maud and being there.

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Well, this kind of feeling of failure by the

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end and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Being

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there, maybe the end changes it, maybe it doesn't.

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I had a long discussion with a friend recently

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about whether being there is a cynical movie

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or an earnest movie. Sure, and that's a movie

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we would like to talk about eventually. Sometimes,

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sometimes. But I think being there is really

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a Peter Sellers project. Peter Sellers was trying

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to get that movie made for decades and finally

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got that movie made. Shampoo is very much a Hal

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Ashby project. I'm sorry, a Warren Beatty project.

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Yeah, yeah. And, you know, maybe the last detail

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was more Nicholson or something. You know what

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I mean? There's definitely other people that

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Hal Ashby is like, he's letting them sort of

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take center stage, I think, and like adapting

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the whole project to fit that sort of aesthetic.

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I think that many people will talk about, you

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know, Warren Beatty being on set and kind of

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being the director on a lot of Warren Beatty's

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movies. And maybe that applies to Shampoo, too.

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but I do think that like I don't know Hal Ashby

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is just like the type of guy who like doesn't

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need to be in charge in charge or something like

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he's happy to sit back and smoke a joint this

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is just the impression I get like you know what

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I mean as long as it's making the movie better

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he doesn't need to correct the actor and be like

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no do it my way he's kind of like oh shit let's

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do it that way that sounds fucking cool man like

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you know what I mean it's uh So I think that

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you can definitely think of it, you know, Shampoo

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in Hal Ashby's sort of auteur oeuvre or whatever.

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But I think that it's just as easy to think of

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it in terms of Warren Beatty being in charge

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and like his politics really coming through.

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I mean, on top of that, also Robert Towne, the

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other writer who also wrote Chinatown and, you

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know, tons of stuff. He wrote The Last Detail

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as well. Yeah, yeah. He wrote a bunch of the

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last season of Mad Men, too, and stuff. Like,

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he's a big dude. So he's a guy who's written

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a couple, like, sort of, like, politically charged

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movies and sort of nuanced movies that have a

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lot of different... I mean, even, like, he wrote

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Mission Impossible 1 and 2, and, I mean, I guess

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he's, like, he's into these kind of, like, conspiratorial

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movies. He's also the firm and, like... It's

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kind of, it wouldn't be right to say that Robert,

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Robert town is making political movies, more

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like a political movies, movies that are nuanced

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and like have an interesting discussion about

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something. Um, your characters aren't necessarily

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good people and things like that. Um, and you're

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kind of just watching this scenario play out.

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And in the end, it's hard to really know how

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to feel about it or like who is a, well, I think

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in the end, they tend to be like very cynical.

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I think everybody is wrong a lot of the time

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in, you know, like Chinatown or, you know, Shampoo

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specifically, what we're talking about. But even

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in Mission Impossible, like these are all very

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cynical movies about power structures and sort

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of all kind of talking about how the emperor

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has no clothes sort of thing. And specifically

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Shampoo. There's, well. We can get into this.

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We can get into this. I think that, all right,

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well, basically, like, I was listening to Warren

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Beatty talking about Shampoo. And he was talking

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about the concept of promiscuity, right? Like,

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and that his character is this promiscuous guy.

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And he's talking about promiscuity in, like,

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the definitional sense of the term of, like,

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making promises and stuff, right? And, like,

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promises that he has no real intention of keeping.

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Or maybe he does, but he doesn't. He's too banal

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to... you know what i mean all he's doing is

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going around and making these promises and making

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these connections and becoming important to people

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whatever but there's kind of nothing behind it

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um he was talking um And Beatty was talking about

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that as the promiscuity of the left, the promiscuity

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of the free love movement and stuff, and the

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promiscuity of the counterculture. And his character

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sort of being representative of that. And I think

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that's kind of the right way to see this movie,

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where he is sort of this Democrat going around

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and seducing all of these wives and women and

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whatever. But he's really no threat to the Republican

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establishment. And that's kind of the point in

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the end, right? Like, that's why Jack Warden

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lets him go. He doesn't beat him up or anything

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because he's just not a threat to him at all.

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He's like, oh, okay, well, yeah, we can be on

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the same team. I'll buy you out. Like, I'm going

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to take your woman. Like, I'm not worried. You

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know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And that is like

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an end of the 60s thing. Like, that is a real,

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like the ending of this movie and him just kind

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of like. being left with nothing because he just

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was trying to be everything to you know everybody

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all the time he didn't have any sense of self

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really um yeah that's that's a real like you

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were talking about maybe pairing this movie with

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easy ride or pairing this movie with i don't

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know there's a bunch of but but i i think that

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easy rider and this have a very similar vibe

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of like yeah we we blew it dude like that if

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this is all this was like it was all about just

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like fucking some girls and, like, getting high,

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then, like, yeah, if that's all it is, then we

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blew it. And I don't think that's his realization

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in the end. I think the ending really is, like,

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oh, we blew it. But I think the movie begins

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with George, Warren Beatty's character, George

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Roundy. I think the movie begins with him realizing

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that he had blown it, which is why he's sort

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of now galvanized to go to the bank. to try to

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get a loan so he can start his own business.

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That's very, like, capitalist mindset stuff.

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Right, right, right. He's trying to survive the

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transition. Like, he sees the writing on the

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wall for that counterculture. Totally. But, like,

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that's the thing is, like, when I got through

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it initially, I saw the same thing. I really

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thought it was a counterculture, culture, like,

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hippie straight conversation. But on the second

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viewing, I really felt, like like saying that

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George Roundtree represents the Democrats or

00:11:39.269 --> 00:11:40.889
the left or something I feel like is a little

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misleading I mean he even says like straight

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up that like I'm not counterculture I forget

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what specifically what word he uses but at the

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end of the movie when Lester says is that what

00:11:52.370 --> 00:11:55.289
you is that what you think is like being he's

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not he says I'm not anti -establishment I'm not

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anti -establishment. I'm not anti -establishment.

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Yeah, but I think that's... I'm not anti -establishment.

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That's a commentary on the left that they're

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talking about that is now trying to become establishment.

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I think it would be reductionist to say at that

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point that the hippies and the left of 1968 don't

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have any political motives or that they aren't

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trying to live in... by a certain set of ideals

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that are anti -establishment. But when you see

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him go to that party at the end, it's like, yeah,

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this is really what they're all doing. They're

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just getting naked in hot tubs and smoking weed.

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There's a girl there drinking a can of Coca -Cola.

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I feel like that's a choice. On the Criterion

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Blu -ray, the two critics who were talking about

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it brought this up where they were talking about...

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You know, they're at the sort of establishment

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party and whatever at first, and then they leave

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to go to the kind of cool hip party. And the

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cool hip party also has valets and like also

00:12:59.779 --> 00:13:02.899
is in this huge giant mansion. And also like

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they're literally it's the exact same thing as

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the establishment party. And that, I think, is

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kind of the point that he is. He is sort of talking

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about the lack of commitment to these ideas or

00:13:14.379 --> 00:13:17.379
whatever. I mean, that that the left is not.

00:13:17.690 --> 00:13:21.129
this thing of these real hippies going out there

00:13:21.129 --> 00:13:22.990
trying to change things or whatever. It's really

00:13:22.990 --> 00:13:25.429
like a thing that housewives got interested in

00:13:25.429 --> 00:13:28.029
because they were seduced by it and they voted

00:13:28.029 --> 00:13:29.929
against their husbands and whatever. And, but

00:13:29.929 --> 00:13:34.070
you know, now that the sixties are over, they're

00:13:34.070 --> 00:13:36.250
willing to kind of, or they're, they're looking

00:13:36.250 --> 00:13:40.830
to kind of find a more stable daddy, um, which

00:13:40.830 --> 00:13:43.169
they find in Jack Warden and, uh, and Richard

00:13:43.169 --> 00:13:49.659
Nixon. Um, exactly. Yeah. The women in this movie

00:13:49.659 --> 00:13:55.320
are that sort of left. But they're also just

00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:59.139
in it for these same selfish reasons. Nobody

00:13:59.139 --> 00:14:02.220
really cares about Warren Beatty any more than

00:14:02.220 --> 00:14:04.379
he cares about them. I guess maybe Goldie Hawn

00:14:04.379 --> 00:14:09.539
does until she realizes who he is. But Julie

00:14:09.539 --> 00:14:14.799
Christie doesn't. She goes off with Lester. Lester.

00:14:15.419 --> 00:14:18.000
I guess it all depends on how sincere you believe

00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:21.259
Lester is. Because it's funny, I mean, by the

00:14:21.259 --> 00:14:23.460
end, you can definitely just say, like, I mean,

00:14:23.460 --> 00:14:25.980
even George says about himself, I fucked them

00:14:25.980 --> 00:14:27.659
all, and that's all I was doing. It's the greatest

00:14:27.659 --> 00:14:29.580
scene in the movie. That scene is so incredible.

00:14:29.580 --> 00:14:31.759
Because I just wanted to fuck them. Yeah. And,

00:14:31.820 --> 00:14:35.200
like, it's really interesting, this idea that

00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:38.299
George would go to beauty school specifically

00:14:38.299 --> 00:14:42.059
to be around women because he likes them. Yeah,

00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:44.820
yeah, yeah. And that... but that Lester thinks

00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:48.840
that this is a sign of him being gay. I really

00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:52.240
think the way Lester and George are portrayed

00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:55.259
in this movie is interesting because Lester is

00:14:55.259 --> 00:14:57.779
also a dude who's committing adultery. You could

00:14:57.779 --> 00:15:02.080
say he's a powerful money man, so he's evil by

00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:05.600
default or whatever, but he's not really portrayed

00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:09.600
as an evil person. No. No, no, no. Lester actually

00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:13.039
comes off as a very honest person compared to

00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:17.639
George. Completely. When Jackie comes in, the

00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:20.379
first scene that Jackie comes in, when George

00:15:20.379 --> 00:15:22.360
is in Lester's office and he's pitching him,

00:15:22.460 --> 00:15:26.120
barely pitching him the idea of opening a shop,

00:15:26.500 --> 00:15:31.700
Jackie comes in. And when Jackie and Lester are

00:15:31.700 --> 00:15:34.340
talking about their affair and stuff, Lester's

00:15:34.340 --> 00:15:37.519
not like... denying that he has a wife or something

00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:40.240
you know like he's just he's just saying here's

00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.799
the situation i'm a man in this position and

00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:44.500
we have to keep it this way because this is just

00:15:44.500 --> 00:15:46.940
the reality of things he's like very pragmatic

00:15:46.940 --> 00:15:49.799
he's not promising anything He's not promising

00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:52.120
anything, exactly, whereas George is going around

00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:55.559
being like, yeah, this or that. He's always bullshitting.

00:15:55.580 --> 00:15:56.960
Literally everything that's coming out of his

00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:59.120
mouth is bullshit. He has to go because this

00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:01.700
girl is so crazy that he just needs to help her

00:16:01.700 --> 00:16:03.980
and whatever. They all know that he's going to

00:16:03.980 --> 00:16:06.659
fuck them, but they all pretend like he's not

00:16:06.659 --> 00:16:09.340
because it allows them to have this romantic

00:16:09.340 --> 00:16:11.700
idea that's exciting for them because it's not

00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:16.139
their boring conservative husband. But it really

00:16:16.139 --> 00:16:19.460
is just a flight of fancy. And they don't really

00:16:19.460 --> 00:16:21.740
have an interest in it in the end. It's not something

00:16:21.740 --> 00:16:24.600
they're willing to commit to because they know

00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:29.379
that he's frivolous. And he doesn't provide the

00:16:29.379 --> 00:16:34.659
comfort and security of a conservative daddy

00:16:34.659 --> 00:16:37.759
America. You know what I mean? Which is what

00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:40.279
they actually want, even though this thing allowed

00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:43.539
them to feel more free and sexy and cool for

00:16:43.539 --> 00:16:47.220
a couple of years. Um, I think that's a really

00:16:47.220 --> 00:16:51.480
cynical conversation about the sixties. And it's

00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:53.379
interesting because he, well, Beatty started

00:16:53.379 --> 00:16:57.799
writing this in 67, um, apparently, which apparently

00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:00.159
was, it was called hair at that time. So they,

00:17:00.220 --> 00:17:03.080
they, you know, the musical hair came out and

00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:05.099
they had to change it to shampoo. But I think

00:17:05.099 --> 00:17:07.019
the idea of hair is also something that really

00:17:07.019 --> 00:17:09.359
ties into this movie too, in a whole sort of

00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:13.299
counterculture culture sort of way. Where like

00:17:13.299 --> 00:17:15.099
hair at that time was representative of this

00:17:15.099 --> 00:17:18.200
sort of counterculture thing and whatever. And

00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:20.980
also that there's sort of a queerness going on

00:17:20.980 --> 00:17:22.539
to it. Like, you know what I mean? That it's

00:17:22.539 --> 00:17:24.440
feminine to have this long hair, but that that's

00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:27.220
being accepted in the 60s as this sort of countercultural

00:17:27.220 --> 00:17:31.380
thing. But there's multiple levels happening

00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:34.400
there. That I think that's what makes Warren

00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:35.819
Beatty's character really interesting in this

00:17:35.819 --> 00:17:37.220
movie. Like you said earlier that, you know,

00:17:37.220 --> 00:17:39.200
they assume because he's a hairdresser that he's

00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:42.230
gay, but he actually got in this to... fuck women

00:17:42.230 --> 00:17:45.170
um apparently the character was based on john

00:17:45.170 --> 00:17:48.730
peters and uh jay sebring um sebring's like one

00:17:48.730 --> 00:17:51.009
of the guys yeah but john peters is the one from

00:17:51.009 --> 00:17:54.230
um licorice pizza jay sebring was at like the

00:17:54.230 --> 00:17:57.009
manson murders i'm pretty sure yeah jay sebring

00:17:57.009 --> 00:17:59.890
was murdered yeah along with sharon tate right

00:17:59.890 --> 00:18:04.069
right so these were all just it was a new archetype

00:18:04.069 --> 00:18:07.170
sort of thing um and i think that that sort of

00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:12.359
This queerness being attached to this sort of

00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:14.400
anti -establishment thing is like pretty interestingly

00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:17.619
ahead of its time. Because like we talked about

00:18:17.619 --> 00:18:21.819
earlier, like in the Velvet Goldmine episode,

00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:27.380
the idea of sort of the evolution of these queer

00:18:27.380 --> 00:18:30.160
sort of archetypes and the way that those go

00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.710
out into the culture. um, as sort of acceptable

00:18:33.710 --> 00:18:35.309
and whatever. Like, I think that the long hair

00:18:35.309 --> 00:18:39.450
thing is an early kind of on both sides of queerness

00:18:39.450 --> 00:18:42.950
thing with that. And I think that Beatty's character

00:18:42.950 --> 00:18:47.150
like is an ultimate straight man or whatever,

00:18:47.289 --> 00:18:50.150
but like using very kind of gay aesthetics. Like

00:18:50.150 --> 00:18:52.690
his hair is this big, like, it's not even like

00:18:52.690 --> 00:18:56.430
long hippie hair. It's kind of like girly, like

00:18:56.430 --> 00:18:59.690
lots of, you know, a hairspray and stuff like.

00:19:00.269 --> 00:19:03.049
big beautiful like too much you know too much

00:19:03.049 --> 00:19:05.210
effort put into it there's a name for his hairstyle

00:19:05.210 --> 00:19:08.710
but i'm not an expert yeah yeah um but yeah very

00:19:08.710 --> 00:19:13.309
floofy very like i mean it's almost like um it's

00:19:13.309 --> 00:19:16.309
almost like an extension of what like the greasers

00:19:16.309 --> 00:19:18.509
were doing in the 50s and stuff it's like when

00:19:18.509 --> 00:19:21.289
men started to like grow their hair out a little

00:19:21.289 --> 00:19:23.930
bit more and there'd just be more body on the

00:19:23.930 --> 00:19:26.250
top of their heads and it'd be like curly and

00:19:26.250 --> 00:19:30.009
sort of like done up with tons of you know, grease

00:19:30.009 --> 00:19:34.529
and hairspray and whatever. It's very, I don't

00:19:34.529 --> 00:19:37.089
know. Kenneth Anger would say that's a pretty

00:19:37.089 --> 00:19:40.029
gay thing too. That the greasers have been gay

00:19:40.029 --> 00:19:42.549
since then. Sure, there's a hyper -masculinity

00:19:42.549 --> 00:19:46.690
thing that's like somehow gay too. But it's also

00:19:46.690 --> 00:19:50.650
a youth culture thing. You know, that's children

00:19:50.650 --> 00:19:53.490
with money who can think about the way they look

00:19:53.490 --> 00:19:55.049
and what they're driving around in and stuff

00:19:55.049 --> 00:19:57.470
and have all their needs met and all this shit.

00:19:57.549 --> 00:19:59.819
It's like a new, kind of youth culture thing

00:19:59.819 --> 00:20:03.299
that comes around where men are starting to focus

00:20:03.299 --> 00:20:04.980
on their looks a lot more. Like when you look

00:20:04.980 --> 00:20:07.579
at a greaser, it's like they're trying to convey

00:20:07.579 --> 00:20:12.259
almost like a badass, I don't care kind of look.

00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:15.279
But really, to have a look like that, you have

00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:16.660
to spend so much time in front of the mirror

00:20:16.660 --> 00:20:19.539
and really like get up early and do all this

00:20:19.539 --> 00:20:21.299
shit. Like there's something about the amount

00:20:21.299 --> 00:20:23.859
of care and attention it takes to care about

00:20:23.859 --> 00:20:26.200
your looks in that way that is more feminine

00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:30.519
traditionally or whatever. That a man doesn't

00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:35.460
wear perfume necessarily was also a common thing.

00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:38.900
That's why you have to call it cologne. It's

00:20:38.900 --> 00:20:41.819
too feminine for a man to wear perfume or something.

00:20:44.299 --> 00:20:47.160
It's not until the 70s or something, maybe even

00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:50.500
the 80s, that they started doing that. I feel

00:20:50.500 --> 00:20:53.440
like there's early men's perfumes in the 60s.

00:20:55.019 --> 00:20:57.559
Yeah. They're like marketing of cologne to men

00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:00.880
starts either like in the sixties, it starts

00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:03.720
with like right guard and shit. Um, as like the

00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:07.240
early, like spray deodorant stuff. And then through

00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:09.019
the, you know, seventies and eighties, they start

00:21:09.019 --> 00:21:12.740
the cologne thing. But yeah. Yeah. That sort

00:21:12.740 --> 00:21:15.859
of pampering man stuff. That sort of pretty boy

00:21:15.859 --> 00:21:18.099
stuff. And that George Roundy is very much like

00:21:18.099 --> 00:21:21.440
this pampered male kind of vibe and going to

00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:23.220
beauty school so he can be around women. So it's

00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:27.450
like, That feels like a newer male strategy.

00:21:28.650 --> 00:21:30.950
Especially if you're not gay, if you're very

00:21:30.950 --> 00:21:32.670
heterosexual and you just want to sleep with

00:21:32.670 --> 00:21:36.549
women. It's like the idea of you being a ballerina,

00:21:36.589 --> 00:21:38.930
a male ballerina. Most of them are gay, but there

00:21:38.930 --> 00:21:41.109
might be one or two who are like, actually, if

00:21:41.109 --> 00:21:42.529
I'm a male ballerina, I'll just be around chicks

00:21:42.529 --> 00:21:46.690
all the time. The thing that seems to happen

00:21:46.690 --> 00:21:50.750
is that makes them less threatening. George Roundy

00:21:50.750 --> 00:21:52.910
is just not... threatening to any of these women.

00:21:53.390 --> 00:21:55.750
He's not masculine enough. He's not a daddy.

00:21:56.529 --> 00:22:00.509
He's not masculine. He is in this movie, he's

00:22:00.509 --> 00:22:03.349
a feminine archetype. And you can see that that

00:22:03.349 --> 00:22:05.869
makes them not actually respect him. They push

00:22:05.869 --> 00:22:10.990
him around. I don't think George is a good person

00:22:10.990 --> 00:22:13.609
or a victim necessarily because he got everything

00:22:13.609 --> 00:22:17.940
he asked for. The way the women talk to him in

00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:20.279
this movie, he's literally just being, like,

00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:23.140
nagged at all sides. And he put himself in that

00:22:23.140 --> 00:22:27.019
situation, like, don't get me wrong. But, you

00:22:27.019 --> 00:22:30.440
know, he doesn't have the mental capacity. Like,

00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.319
he's kind of a dumb person. He's a bullshitter

00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:36.180
and a pretty dumb guy and kind of innocent because

00:22:36.180 --> 00:22:39.180
of that, too. But, like, he doesn't... He doesn't

00:22:39.180 --> 00:22:41.940
have the capacity to actually emotionally and

00:22:41.940 --> 00:22:44.059
intellectually deal with all these women and

00:22:44.059 --> 00:22:45.920
all their problems and all the things they want

00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:50.400
from him. And that's something Lester can manage.

00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:53.079
Lester actually knows how to manage having multiple

00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:56.519
relationships and a multi -billion dollar business

00:22:56.519 --> 00:22:59.019
or something and all this other shit. What he

00:22:59.019 --> 00:23:02.500
doesn't know how to do is to do his hair. He

00:23:02.500 --> 00:23:05.200
doesn't know how to present himself as being

00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:08.039
sexy to these girls or whatever. But like that

00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:11.240
is a problem that the right has. And the left

00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:13.579
is very good at presenting itself and doing its

00:23:13.579 --> 00:23:15.440
hair up and doing all these things and making

00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:17.440
all the like housewives think that like, oh,

00:23:17.460 --> 00:23:19.500
this is a nice thing. This is cute. I like I

00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:21.299
like being nice. And I like that they probably

00:23:21.299 --> 00:23:23.500
like all the promises that this guy makes. But

00:23:23.500 --> 00:23:25.420
like when it gets down to it, you know, this

00:23:25.420 --> 00:23:28.980
is not that serious. And that like the hair doesn't

00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:31.960
fucking matter. You know what I mean? Yeah. He's

00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:34.339
still good. Like Lester is still going to get

00:23:34.339 --> 00:23:36.819
the girl. You know what I mean? Yeah. He doesn't

00:23:36.819 --> 00:23:38.859
need to. And maybe, and maybe that's like, that's

00:23:38.859 --> 00:23:41.599
indicative of this time and this transition in

00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:43.599
the culture and stuff. And you know, you said

00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:45.619
that there's a gender dynamic thing going on,

00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:49.059
which is like, you know, I, I don't make a lot

00:23:49.059 --> 00:23:51.240
of money and yet I have a partner and a child

00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:53.119
and somebody who chose me. So it's like, but

00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:56.640
we're not living in 1968 or whatever. Like, and

00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.220
you know, in 1968, you're going to find, people

00:23:59.220 --> 00:24:02.960
who choose to be with like i don't know like

00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:06.339
ken kesey had a wife you know like like there's

00:24:06.339 --> 00:24:09.000
always going to be the women who don't need the

00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:12.059
stability but it's sort of like a female trope

00:24:12.059 --> 00:24:14.680
to need the stability right so you can have kids

00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:16.220
and know they'll be taken care of and they can

00:24:16.220 --> 00:24:18.160
have a good education and all this kind of stuff

00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:22.019
So I think it is talking about that dynamic.

00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:23.640
I don't think it's just a female trope, though.

00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:25.900
I think it's also like a cultural trope, right?

00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:28.599
And I think that it's being expressed through

00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:30.079
the female because of that female trope. But

00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:34.440
it is like, who do we want as a leader, as a

00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:37.480
whole group of people? You know what I mean?

00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:39.039
Not just the women. Not just what do the women

00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:42.539
want, but what do all of us want? Um, going forward,

00:24:42.539 --> 00:24:46.059
do we want to follow a how, uh, how that a Warren

00:24:46.059 --> 00:24:49.140
Beatty, like who's just, you know, sexy and fun

00:24:49.140 --> 00:24:51.619
and whatever, but like, isn't really ever going

00:24:51.619 --> 00:24:53.799
to go anywhere and can't get a loan because he's

00:24:53.799 --> 00:24:58.400
counterculture. Um, or do we just want Jack Warden

00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:00.140
to be in charge? Because like, there's a guy

00:25:00.140 --> 00:25:02.440
who will drive his car to him so that he can

00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:04.619
like get to this. Like, you know what I mean?

00:25:04.660 --> 00:25:08.099
He's got all of the things. He's so set. Well,

00:25:08.099 --> 00:25:09.900
of course we wanted Jack Warden to be in charge,

00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:11.660
but I think another thing that the movie sort

00:25:11.660 --> 00:25:16.039
of explores is why does Jack Warden have what

00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:19.880
he has and George doesn't have what he has? Is

00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:23.339
it just that George is frivolous? Because another

00:25:23.339 --> 00:25:25.519
thing that's similar about both characters is

00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:28.759
that they are both a little dumb. Like, Lester's

00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:30.880
not portrayed as like an intellectual genius,

00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:36.750
you know? He's actually very innocent and unassuming

00:25:36.750 --> 00:25:40.150
when it comes to the fact that George is having

00:25:40.150 --> 00:25:43.809
an affair with his wife and daughter and mistress.

00:25:44.230 --> 00:25:48.490
Right. He basically catches them. And this happens

00:25:48.490 --> 00:25:51.630
too with Lester's wife basically catches George

00:25:51.630 --> 00:25:55.279
fucking their daughter. And she knows that's

00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:58.279
what he was doing. She knows, but doesn't lean

00:25:58.279 --> 00:26:00.299
onto it, doesn't actually call him out or anything.

00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:03.480
It makes her more competitive, is what it does.

00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:07.700
It makes her want to go fuck him right now. Yeah,

00:26:07.740 --> 00:26:11.180
and at the party, in the bathroom, and all this

00:26:11.180 --> 00:26:15.359
shit. Just make it more and more dangerous. It's

00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:17.319
thrilling. Just make it more and more dangerous

00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:19.539
for George. And then she's the one who's upset.

00:26:21.230 --> 00:26:23.089
like learning about and that's the other thing

00:26:23.089 --> 00:26:26.490
too is like she doesn't catch lester and jackie

00:26:26.490 --> 00:26:30.049
red -handed but less the way lester carries himself

00:26:30.049 --> 00:26:32.869
around jackie when they all meet just like clues

00:26:32.869 --> 00:26:36.410
clues felicia into the fact that they're having

00:26:36.410 --> 00:26:38.430
an affair yeah so there's like that woman intuition

00:26:38.430 --> 00:26:40.430
thing going on where the women just like know

00:26:40.430 --> 00:26:42.309
what's going on they don't need that much information

00:26:42.309 --> 00:26:46.009
but the men are just oblivious Yeah. I think

00:26:46.009 --> 00:26:47.650
that's totally true because we're talking about

00:26:47.650 --> 00:26:51.450
a realm of women. That's like where all of this,

00:26:51.490 --> 00:26:53.730
like this whole movie is taking, and Warren Beatty

00:26:53.730 --> 00:26:55.470
says it in his final sort of speech where he's

00:26:55.470 --> 00:26:57.130
like, you ever fucking listen to them? I listen

00:26:57.130 --> 00:26:59.309
to them all fucking day. And it's like, it's

00:26:59.309 --> 00:27:02.369
so sort of misogynistic and whatever, but like

00:27:02.369 --> 00:27:05.529
kind of like, no, that's, that's, it's his sort

00:27:05.529 --> 00:27:07.990
of lack of respect for these women is part of

00:27:07.990 --> 00:27:11.630
why. he's so successful with them too you gotta

00:27:11.630 --> 00:27:13.329
keep the line going though because the rest of

00:27:13.329 --> 00:27:15.309
the line is what most important when he says

00:27:15.309 --> 00:27:17.309
you know what they talk about all they talk about

00:27:17.309 --> 00:27:20.049
is how some guy fucked them over yeah and and

00:27:20.049 --> 00:27:21.890
they're right that's all we want to do like we're

00:27:21.890 --> 00:27:24.230
trying to nail them all the time and they like

00:27:24.230 --> 00:27:26.430
it and they don't like it i don't know it's the

00:27:26.430 --> 00:27:28.730
best dude it's so good yeah because it's like

00:27:28.730 --> 00:27:30.670
because it's like the dumbest guy actually like

00:27:30.670 --> 00:27:33.009
kind of saying everything you know what i mean

00:27:33.009 --> 00:27:35.210
yeah yeah he's like getting to the truth and

00:27:35.210 --> 00:27:37.230
like he actually connects to lester in that moment

00:27:37.230 --> 00:27:39.720
too like lester This is, like, after Lester,

00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:41.759
you know, caught him cheating, like, sleeping

00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:45.039
with Jackie. And he shows up the next morning

00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:47.359
with goons to presumably beat him up or something.

00:27:47.420 --> 00:27:49.299
But they actually have kind of a nice heart -to

00:27:49.299 --> 00:27:52.279
-heart. And Lester admits that, like... Because

00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:54.240
all the power structure has been... Like, it's...

00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:56.400
There's no more facade. And now it's just kind

00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:59.559
of like, okay, so now... Now we're in Jack Warden's

00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:02.450
territory. now we're in the realm of the men

00:28:02.450 --> 00:28:05.809
and the men who have the power and it's not about

00:28:05.809 --> 00:28:09.869
jealousy and and social cues and interactions

00:28:09.869 --> 00:28:12.029
and proving this or proving that or promising

00:28:12.029 --> 00:28:14.809
this or probably it's like no no look like i'm

00:28:14.809 --> 00:28:17.410
not scared of you actually turns out like because

00:28:17.410 --> 00:28:19.609
you're who you are if you were fucking my wife

00:28:19.609 --> 00:28:22.710
basically doesn't matter like i'm gonna go off

00:28:22.710 --> 00:28:25.589
with your girl like you know what i mean it's

00:28:25.589 --> 00:28:29.609
it's very much like negotiation tactics and like

00:28:29.609 --> 00:28:33.490
um and the power of like force and stuff you

00:28:33.490 --> 00:28:35.609
know what i mean it's like manly power as opposed

00:28:35.609 --> 00:28:38.970
to like the power of like rumors and playing

00:28:38.970 --> 00:28:40.630
behind somebody's back and knowing who's sleeping

00:28:40.630 --> 00:28:43.230
with who and then using that to get this like

00:28:43.230 --> 00:28:44.970
that's where everything else is happening is

00:28:44.970 --> 00:28:47.630
these women playing these women games with him

00:28:47.630 --> 00:28:50.950
um but when it comes down to it and jack warden

00:28:50.950 --> 00:28:52.849
actually knows what's going on it's like oh okay

00:28:52.849 --> 00:28:54.569
this has all been woman stuff you're just like

00:28:54.569 --> 00:28:58.059
another woman so like okay, nevermind. You know

00:28:58.059 --> 00:28:59.720
what I mean? It's like, then I'm not worried

00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:01.880
and I can actually like fund your company because

00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:03.619
like, maybe it'll get me some more pussy eventually.

00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:07.160
I don't like, you know what I mean? But he, he's

00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:09.200
not threatened at all because he's basically

00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:12.019
like, oh, you're not a man like me. You're not

00:29:12.019 --> 00:29:13.640
going to take any of these women. None of them

00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:17.460
respect you. Like that's, you know, you're just,

00:29:17.500 --> 00:29:20.720
they're sort of dumb blonde. You know what I

00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:24.480
mean? The archetypal dumb, like. you know, blonde

00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:26.839
girl in the movie is who Warren Beatty is playing.

00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:28.779
It's just like the dumbest. No, it's such a,

00:29:28.779 --> 00:29:30.980
it's such a refreshing scene, such a leveling

00:29:30.980 --> 00:29:34.160
moment. That's sort of unexpected. And I really

00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:36.220
liked that. Lester basically admits he's a political

00:29:36.220 --> 00:29:39.200
too. Like he mentions Nixon on the screen. He's

00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:41.420
like, yeah, maybe he'll be better. I don't know.

00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:45.079
They're all jerks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's, he's,

00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:48.700
he's not even buying into the politic game and

00:29:48.700 --> 00:29:51.720
like the. That's also, like, feminine power.

00:29:51.859 --> 00:29:53.099
Like, you know what I mean? All of these promises

00:29:53.099 --> 00:29:55.819
and all of this, like, this is all kind of this

00:29:55.819 --> 00:29:58.440
stuff that is the world that Warren Beatty lives

00:29:58.440 --> 00:30:00.720
in. But, like, he has no real interest in because

00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:03.380
there's no solid, like, this is what I get out

00:30:03.380 --> 00:30:05.980
of this. Like, you know what I mean? There's

00:30:05.980 --> 00:30:07.720
no deal happening. So it's just like, ah, that's

00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:11.559
all just bullshit up in the air, you know? Mm

00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:13.539
-hmm. Well, do you also remember what Les just

00:30:13.539 --> 00:30:16.720
said to his wife at the dinner after she, like...

00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:19.640
She calls him out for having an affair. She says,

00:30:19.660 --> 00:30:21.900
I hope you like Mrs. Sean. She's going to be

00:30:21.900 --> 00:30:25.019
very expensive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Lester

00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:27.579
says something along the lines of it's all about

00:30:27.579 --> 00:30:30.660
making the world a better place. And she laughs

00:30:30.660 --> 00:30:33.140
at him. She thinks that's total bullshit. But

00:30:33.140 --> 00:30:37.259
it's interesting that he specifically says that.

00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:41.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if George's goal is to fuck

00:30:41.980 --> 00:30:44.119
women and just be frivolous, what's Lester's

00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:46.450
goal? I mean, in his mind, it might actually

00:30:46.450 --> 00:30:48.789
be just to make the world a better place. Right,

00:30:48.829 --> 00:30:50.730
right, right. Like, women are just, like, a plaything

00:30:50.730 --> 00:30:53.250
on the side. Like, that's not his goal. That's

00:30:53.250 --> 00:30:56.529
not what he's here to do. Right. You know? Like,

00:30:56.750 --> 00:30:59.170
he could have any woman. He could have affairs.

00:30:59.269 --> 00:31:01.450
He could leave them and find someone else. Like,

00:31:01.490 --> 00:31:03.529
that's not, you know what I mean? That's not

00:31:03.529 --> 00:31:06.289
the thing. The thing is actually about the money

00:31:06.289 --> 00:31:09.069
and the power and, like, the influence and changes

00:31:09.069 --> 00:31:11.670
he can make upon the world. Right, right, right.

00:31:13.259 --> 00:31:17.180
he also is like a little bit of adult. He's definitely

00:31:17.180 --> 00:31:19.140
not some political genius. He doesn't care about

00:31:19.140 --> 00:31:21.920
any of that. And like he, he, he seems to understand

00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:26.339
money in a very pragmatic way. Um, I think he

00:31:26.339 --> 00:31:29.500
even mentions that like, it's not worth investing

00:31:29.500 --> 00:31:32.279
in George's business because that's like a, that's

00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:34.400
a cash business and money just disappears and

00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:36.099
something like that. It's not really a good investment.

00:31:36.180 --> 00:31:38.819
Right, right, right. Um, and so he has like this

00:31:38.819 --> 00:31:41.880
pragmatic way of looking at money and like that

00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:45.109
also, makes him banal but I don't know maybe

00:31:45.109 --> 00:31:47.230
that's just like maybe he's in love with money

00:31:47.230 --> 00:31:49.150
and George is in love with pussy and that's kind

00:31:49.150 --> 00:31:51.329
of all it is and that's kind of what the right

00:31:51.329 --> 00:31:54.250
is and the left is yeah exactly I mean it's kind

00:31:54.250 --> 00:31:57.450
of like what we talked about in the uh the sorry

00:31:57.450 --> 00:32:00.210
to bother you episode about just being a libtard

00:32:00.210 --> 00:32:02.730
for pussy you know what I mean it's just like

00:32:02.730 --> 00:32:04.839
yeah you just say these things and you you know,

00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:06.720
pretend to fight against the system and whatever,

00:32:06.859 --> 00:32:08.859
and then you can get some cool hip art girl to

00:32:08.859 --> 00:32:11.940
like you. It's like, that's Warren Beatty in

00:32:11.940 --> 00:32:13.539
this movie. In a different paradigm, there's

00:32:13.539 --> 00:32:16.160
not that hip art girl, but it is, you know, the

00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:18.019
rich wives of... Well, he's dating an actress.

00:32:18.119 --> 00:32:19.880
His girlfriend is an actress. Yeah, exactly,

00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:22.799
exactly. I mean, she's doing, like, cigarette

00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.079
commercials, and she doesn't think Egypt sounds

00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:28.980
very glamorous. Yeah. I mean, she doesn't want

00:32:28.980 --> 00:32:30.440
to go to Egypt because she doesn't want to leave

00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:33.250
him. Because she knows that something's going

00:32:33.250 --> 00:32:35.430
on and shit, right? I think that's a big part

00:32:35.430 --> 00:32:38.150
of it. I know he's probably going to be cheating

00:32:38.150 --> 00:32:41.869
on me, right? I think that's the reason. I think

00:32:41.869 --> 00:32:44.930
that's part of it. I think there's a thing that

00:32:44.930 --> 00:32:47.950
she's always trying in that relationship and

00:32:47.950 --> 00:32:50.430
he's always not trying and that's why he has

00:32:50.430 --> 00:32:52.210
the relationship. You know what I mean? I think

00:32:52.210 --> 00:32:54.609
that part of it is that she's really dumb. She's

00:32:54.609 --> 00:32:56.750
the only one who's dumber than he is. You know

00:32:56.750 --> 00:33:00.549
what I mean? Yeah. When she finds out who he

00:33:00.549 --> 00:33:02.910
is, it's like, oh, that's actually it. Then never

00:33:02.910 --> 00:33:07.130
mind. You can leave now. Yeah, like a couple

00:33:07.130 --> 00:33:11.170
of Jill's, Jill's girlfriend, Goldie Hawn, a

00:33:11.170 --> 00:33:15.710
couple of her interactions do sort of show those

00:33:15.710 --> 00:33:19.970
like female manipulation tactics. Like she is

00:33:19.970 --> 00:33:22.769
also a very innocent, unassuming, dumb person.

00:33:24.419 --> 00:33:27.359
She's got borderline personality disorder. She's

00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:29.460
afraid of being abandoned and is coming up with

00:33:29.460 --> 00:33:33.640
catastrophes all the time and being hysterical,

00:33:33.740 --> 00:33:36.200
basically. One thing I noticed, though, is that

00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:39.500
early in the movie, she's having a discussion

00:33:39.500 --> 00:33:43.339
with George about having babies. And she says,

00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:45.259
I hear if you don't have a baby before 30, you'll

00:33:45.259 --> 00:33:49.460
have a Mongolian idiot. And she says, my friend,

00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:51.980
like... doesn't want to bring a baby it'd be

00:33:51.980 --> 00:33:53.619
crazy to bring a baby into this world because

00:33:53.619 --> 00:33:57.059
it's overpopulated and hypocritical yep yep um

00:33:57.059 --> 00:33:59.859
and he's just like can we just talk about this

00:33:59.859 --> 00:34:03.599
tomorrow or whatever so it's like clearly she's

00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:06.059
in a place where she wants this to get more serious

00:34:06.059 --> 00:34:08.500
yeah you know she's bringing up the idea of babies

00:34:08.500 --> 00:34:12.340
and like i have a biological clock and all this

00:34:12.340 --> 00:34:15.239
stuff but then later on when she's at the party

00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:18.219
with the director johnny pope she's going into

00:34:18.219 --> 00:34:20.650
this whole thing about how like well, there's

00:34:20.650 --> 00:34:23.170
actually just too much to do before having kids

00:34:23.170 --> 00:34:25.389
and I want to be self -realized and all this

00:34:25.389 --> 00:34:29.429
kind of shit. She's not giving him the same spiel

00:34:29.429 --> 00:34:31.050
of like, I have a biological clock and I'd love

00:34:31.050 --> 00:34:32.869
to have kids soon because that scares guys away.

00:34:33.010 --> 00:34:35.349
So there's like this, you know, there's like

00:34:35.349 --> 00:34:37.090
this whole thing of like, she's definitely just

00:34:37.090 --> 00:34:39.710
like playing the room in both scenarios. Like,

00:34:39.829 --> 00:34:43.019
oh, you're someone who's like. i've been with

00:34:43.019 --> 00:34:44.539
so there's potential so i'm gonna start talking

00:34:44.539 --> 00:34:47.019
to you about maybes this guy i've only like known

00:34:47.019 --> 00:34:48.940
him for a day or two and he's cute and whatever

00:34:48.940 --> 00:34:50.739
and i'd like to see where this goes so i'm not

00:34:50.739 --> 00:34:53.139
gonna talk about having babies you know right

00:34:53.139 --> 00:34:55.019
we're talking about how i'm a free i'm a free

00:34:55.019 --> 00:34:57.920
loving woman who wants to have lots of fun experiences

00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:00.639
and like could have adventures with you and things

00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:03.860
like that right right um giving people what they

00:35:03.860 --> 00:35:08.530
want yeah exactly yep But I didn't think about

00:35:08.530 --> 00:35:10.309
the Egypt thing being just, like, she didn't

00:35:10.309 --> 00:35:12.090
want to leave him, but I think that does make

00:35:12.090 --> 00:35:14.309
more sense than what I was thinking. I just kind

00:35:14.309 --> 00:35:17.309
of assumed, like, Egypt just didn't sound glamorous

00:35:17.309 --> 00:35:20.269
for whatever reason. I feel like Egypt sounds

00:35:20.269 --> 00:35:22.090
pretty glamorous. I don't know, like, the pyramids

00:35:22.090 --> 00:35:24.329
and shit they were going. I don't think at that

00:35:24.329 --> 00:35:27.010
point you, like, thought of Egypt as, like, the

00:35:27.010 --> 00:35:29.489
tourist trap of, like, McDonald's next to the

00:35:29.489 --> 00:35:31.489
pyramids and, like, a bunch of slums and shit.

00:35:31.530 --> 00:35:33.050
I think you thought of it as, like, glorious.

00:35:33.610 --> 00:35:35.489
Like, when the Grateful Dead went to Egypt, it

00:35:35.489 --> 00:35:39.000
was, like, a... big i don't know i just i feel

00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:41.000
like people always thought of egypt as cool until

00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:44.639
like i think i still think of egypt as cool i

00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:46.320
don't know what what do you think is not glamorous

00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:48.119
about egypt do you think it's just like that

00:35:48.119 --> 00:35:49.980
she didn't like black people or something but

00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:53.480
that like the idea is like scary well yeah it's

00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:56.400
in africa it's it's a it's an it's an arab country

00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:59.639
it's uh actually quite dangerous right right

00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:03.880
to be like a woman there and whatever And then,

00:36:03.900 --> 00:36:05.579
yeah, over the years it's become just kind of

00:36:05.579 --> 00:36:08.179
like a disgusting tourist trap. But that might

00:36:08.179 --> 00:36:11.079
not have been true in 68. But in 68, like, I

00:36:11.079 --> 00:36:12.840
can't remember, man. I used to, like, kind of

00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:16.380
know my Egypt history. But it's like Egypt has

00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:19.219
had a lot of, you know, tumultuous times. It's

00:36:19.219 --> 00:36:22.119
very close to the Middle East and, like. Yeah,

00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:24.739
yeah, yeah. It, like, you know, shares a border

00:36:24.739 --> 00:36:28.440
with Gaza and shit like that. So it's like. It's

00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:31.639
always kind of been a – yeah, I mean, well, the

00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:33.980
Rafah. The Rafah border is right along Egypt.

00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:40.199
This is like the south side of Gaza. Okay. And

00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:42.179
so there's always just kind of been a lot of

00:36:42.179 --> 00:36:46.199
political turmoil there, and it's not always

00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:48.079
been a very safe place to be and whatever. But

00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:49.739
I don't know. This is just like – this is my

00:36:49.739 --> 00:36:52.739
stupid assumption upon hearing that based on

00:36:52.739 --> 00:36:54.780
very little. Because, yeah, I think you're right.

00:36:54.920 --> 00:36:56.820
It's probably just like, like Egypt, you're sending

00:36:56.820 --> 00:36:58.900
me away. It's just like the way she says Egypt,

00:36:59.260 --> 00:37:02.019
you know. I mean, to me, it just played as the

00:37:02.019 --> 00:37:05.639
most exotic possible glamorous exotic location

00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:07.139
or whatever. But she was like, yeah, I don't

00:37:07.139 --> 00:37:10.280
know, though. I've got this thing. I don't know.

00:37:10.420 --> 00:37:13.199
And she's like not willing to commit to it because

00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:16.159
she wants to talk to Warren Beatty first. And

00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:18.639
like. No, that's true. That's true. She does

00:37:18.639 --> 00:37:20.760
want to go talk to him first and get his opinion

00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:22.420
on it. He doesn't have an opinion. He doesn't

00:37:22.420 --> 00:37:23.920
really care. Yeah, she wants him to tell her,

00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:27.780
I want you to stay. Exactly. And commit to something.

00:37:27.780 --> 00:37:31.280
I want you to stay. Yeah. But you can't even

00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:33.559
do that. He doesn't want to do that. He has no

00:37:33.559 --> 00:37:36.559
real interest in her. I mean, he's just completely

00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:37.179
confused in that moment. The only one he has

00:37:37.179 --> 00:37:41.039
interest in is Julie Christie. Really. Like...

00:37:41.210 --> 00:37:43.010
And the question is, like, does he even, like,

00:37:43.070 --> 00:37:45.289
when he tells her that he loves her, that, like,

00:37:45.309 --> 00:37:47.690
she's the only one that he can be himself with

00:37:47.690 --> 00:37:49.130
or whatever. The only one he can imagine growing

00:37:49.130 --> 00:37:51.030
old with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think that's

00:37:51.030 --> 00:37:53.710
real? Because part of me thinks, yeah, she's

00:37:53.710 --> 00:37:56.750
the other whore, like, in the movie. Like, you

00:37:56.750 --> 00:37:57.849
know what I mean? She's the other one that's

00:37:57.849 --> 00:38:00.409
like him, who, like, is going around and cheating,

00:38:00.530 --> 00:38:03.050
like, you know, sleeping with people and cheating

00:38:03.050 --> 00:38:06.230
on people and playing the game. No, sure, sure.

00:38:06.349 --> 00:38:07.929
The other thing I was thinking was that, like,

00:38:07.969 --> 00:38:12.139
I feel like Jackie Shaw. represents like a more

00:38:12.139 --> 00:38:16.760
anti -establishment period of his life or something

00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:19.599
like a time when he was actually having more

00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:23.159
adventures and going to more of these kind of

00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:26.440
counterculture parties and stuff like that um

00:38:26.440 --> 00:38:29.460
they seem like they have a history that's very

00:38:29.460 --> 00:38:33.659
connected to that party and the vibes there yeah

00:38:33.659 --> 00:38:36.739
and that party sort of brings out something from

00:38:36.739 --> 00:38:39.630
their past that they had together, and I think

00:38:39.630 --> 00:38:42.489
he's just all wrapped up in that, you know? Yeah,

00:38:42.590 --> 00:38:45.429
I can see that. I mean, I thought that the party,

00:38:45.630 --> 00:38:47.469
really, the thing that was brought out was just

00:38:47.469 --> 00:38:50.429
the dynamics that these women set up, was this

00:38:50.429 --> 00:38:52.610
dynamic of this jealousy and this competition

00:38:52.610 --> 00:38:56.269
and these games that they're playing that then,

00:38:56.329 --> 00:38:58.949
you know, Jackie's just like, no, I'm going to

00:38:58.949 --> 00:39:00.929
win. I'm going to suck his dick under the table.

00:39:01.130 --> 00:39:02.690
Like, this is going to piss everybody. Like,

00:39:02.710 --> 00:39:04.389
you know what I mean? Well, sure. She's just

00:39:04.389 --> 00:39:06.559
doing that to piss off Lester, though. yeah yeah

00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:10.460
well also Felicia Lee Grant's character like

00:39:10.460 --> 00:39:13.860
who I think everybody knows like sure they're

00:39:13.860 --> 00:39:16.739
like uh Lee Grant and Julie Christie are like

00:39:16.739 --> 00:39:18.840
you know at each other's throats or whatever

00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:23.519
over Jack Warden right but they also are doing

00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:26.239
the same thing over over George over Warren Beatty

00:39:26.239 --> 00:39:30.480
um and I think that her being like okay I'm gonna

00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:32.900
go down on Warren Beatty is like just as much

00:39:32.900 --> 00:39:36.800
of a fuck you to Felicia as it is to do the same

00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:38.380
thing to jack wood like you know what i mean

00:39:38.380 --> 00:39:41.519
and i think there really is something in george

00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:45.179
that jackie loves you know and it is something

00:39:45.179 --> 00:39:48.380
yeah something that's very like attractive to

00:39:48.380 --> 00:39:50.199
her i mean the scene where he's doing her hair

00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:52.420
in the bathroom and whatever like she's definitely

00:39:52.420 --> 00:39:54.940
like kind of falling for him again but she's

00:39:54.940 --> 00:39:58.480
also doing the whole no means yes thing and you

00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:00.820
know he kind of comes on to her in that moment

00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:04.039
And she's like, no, no, no. And he's like, yes,

00:40:04.059 --> 00:40:07.280
you know, whatever. And that's like the only

00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:10.099
time where you actually see him like go for it.

00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:11.840
Whereas like the rest of the movie, women are

00:40:11.840 --> 00:40:13.480
kind of just throwing themselves at him. Yeah,

00:40:13.500 --> 00:40:15.019
yeah. And he's just like, okay, I have to do

00:40:15.019 --> 00:40:18.440
this. Yeah, yeah. Like the daughter, man. I'm

00:40:18.440 --> 00:40:19.980
in the middle of fucking this one, so now I have

00:40:19.980 --> 00:40:22.159
to go fuck that one. All right, I'll be back.

00:40:23.699 --> 00:40:24.719
And yeah, the daughter. Yeah, man, like Carrie

00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:26.940
Fisher, man. Like Carrie Fisher's like first

00:40:26.940 --> 00:40:29.340
role or whatever, just being a fucking Lolita.

00:40:29.659 --> 00:40:35.119
Yeah, yeah. That was great. But yeah, she's just

00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:36.780
like, you want to fuck? And she's like, are you

00:40:36.780 --> 00:40:38.440
gay? And whatever. She's just trying to find

00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:40.159
out. And it's so funny. He's not even willing

00:40:40.159 --> 00:40:44.300
to defend his manhood or deny being gay. He's

00:40:44.300 --> 00:40:46.579
just like, what is it? What do you want to know?

00:40:47.179 --> 00:40:51.179
Yeah, because that gives up power. Like we've

00:40:51.179 --> 00:40:53.539
talked about before, man, it's the thing in Days

00:40:53.539 --> 00:40:56.019
of Confused of like, I got my own ride, but maybe

00:40:56.019 --> 00:41:00.210
I'll see you there. You keep this sort of air

00:41:00.210 --> 00:41:03.630
of mystery about you, and you have more power.

00:41:04.030 --> 00:41:08.110
And that's what he's doing there, just as a reflex

00:41:08.110 --> 00:41:11.269
or whatever. He's like, I don't know. If he was

00:41:11.269 --> 00:41:13.590
trying to come out of this girl, that's like,

00:41:13.730 --> 00:41:16.349
that might be a problem for you. But it's like,

00:41:16.449 --> 00:41:18.110
if you just don't give up any of your cards,

00:41:18.289 --> 00:41:20.230
then you're going to end up fucking this girl,

00:41:20.250 --> 00:41:22.510
and it won't be a problem. I don't know. You

00:41:22.510 --> 00:41:24.650
know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I think it's very

00:41:24.650 --> 00:41:30.070
interesting that, like, He understands the dynamics

00:41:30.070 --> 00:41:32.469
between the daughter and the mother so much better

00:41:32.469 --> 00:41:35.090
than Jack Warden does and stuff because he's

00:41:35.090 --> 00:41:38.150
fucked both of them. He hates her. He hates her,

00:41:38.150 --> 00:41:40.090
dude. He hates her. He's like, why? He's like,

00:41:40.150 --> 00:41:41.869
I don't know. Why the fuck would I know? Do you

00:41:41.869 --> 00:41:44.170
ever listen to women? Not he. She hates her.

00:41:44.190 --> 00:41:46.369
She hates her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She hates her.

00:41:46.389 --> 00:41:50.670
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I also think that at the

00:41:50.670 --> 00:41:53.909
party, Jackie really is going through something

00:41:53.909 --> 00:41:58.699
similar with Lester. That Jill is with George.

00:41:59.579 --> 00:42:03.380
Like, Jackie also wants Lester to commit to her,

00:42:03.539 --> 00:42:06.559
you know. Jackie, like, wants to be included

00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:08.659
at parties. That's kind of the whole, like, conflict

00:42:08.659 --> 00:42:10.159
right at the beginning when she comes to the

00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:13.159
office is, like, I'm just your accessory. And,

00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:16.500
like, I can't have any of my friends over. And,

00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:19.400
like, it's, like, just such a secret, you know.

00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:22.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's really, like, created

00:42:22.260 --> 00:42:24.000
these boundaries and whatever. And she really

00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:26.119
wants those boundaries to start opening up. Right.

00:42:26.460 --> 00:42:28.239
And that's why he says, like, okay, I'll do something

00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:29.860
about tonight. You'll come to this party. I'll

00:42:29.860 --> 00:42:33.199
find someone who can bring you. But then at the

00:42:33.199 --> 00:42:34.880
party, he's basically just ignoring her the whole

00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:36.360
time. She's, like, throwing shit at the back

00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:38.519
of his head, and she's just, like, getting more

00:42:38.519 --> 00:42:40.519
and more drunk because she's just, like, annoyed

00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:42.199
that she's not getting attention from Lester,

00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:47.260
you know? And so she kind of, like, uses the

00:42:47.260 --> 00:42:49.860
attention she's getting from George, or at least

00:42:49.860 --> 00:42:51.159
the history she has with George, because George

00:42:51.159 --> 00:42:54.469
really is, like... trying as hard as he can to

00:42:54.469 --> 00:42:57.809
not do anything wrong at that party he's actually

00:42:57.809 --> 00:43:00.989
like in a place where there's men who could change

00:43:00.989 --> 00:43:04.489
his life around him and if he really plays his

00:43:04.489 --> 00:43:06.449
cards right with lester he could actually open

00:43:06.449 --> 00:43:08.789
his own business and all this stuff and he's

00:43:08.789 --> 00:43:10.510
trying to do what lester told him to do which

00:43:10.510 --> 00:43:14.409
was to like take care of jackie you know and

00:43:14.409 --> 00:43:18.340
be her watch or whatever and then like But Felicia's

00:43:18.340 --> 00:43:20.860
also just, like, straight up kisses him, like,

00:43:20.900 --> 00:43:22.659
in the room in front of everybody. And I guess

00:43:22.659 --> 00:43:24.760
Lester doesn't see that moment. Right, right.

00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:26.739
But she doesn't give a fuck, dude. She's, like,

00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:29.119
just perfectly willing to be out in the open.

00:43:29.340 --> 00:43:31.900
Yep. Drag him to the bathroom to smoke a joint

00:43:31.900 --> 00:43:34.360
and have sex there and stuff and just being totally,

00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:38.219
like, dangerous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then she

00:43:38.219 --> 00:43:41.579
has the gall to turn around and say, I hope you

00:43:41.579 --> 00:43:43.500
enjoyed Miss Shaw. She's going to be very expensive.

00:43:43.639 --> 00:43:46.269
And to, like, then, like... do this whole power

00:43:46.269 --> 00:43:48.710
trip over him at the dinner or whatever. Yeah,

00:43:48.750 --> 00:43:52.989
yeah, yeah. The dynamics are very interesting.

00:43:53.449 --> 00:43:55.570
Another weird part about that moment, too, when

00:43:55.570 --> 00:43:57.309
she's saying all that to him, that's when he

00:43:57.309 --> 00:43:58.969
says, like, some of us are trying to make the

00:43:58.969 --> 00:44:02.869
world a better place or whatever, is the senator,

00:44:03.030 --> 00:44:07.090
who's, like, the guest of honor, who, like, starts...

00:44:07.769 --> 00:44:09.750
Like, I guess he's a Native American senator.

00:44:09.969 --> 00:44:11.690
He's not actually Native American or something.

00:44:12.010 --> 00:44:14.550
Yeah. He's some fucking white guy who's doing

00:44:14.550 --> 00:44:17.309
some offensive -ass shit that he, like, heard.

00:44:17.530 --> 00:44:18.989
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's, like, saying some...

00:44:18.989 --> 00:44:20.929
There's no way he's even saying any Native American

00:44:20.929 --> 00:44:23.329
words. He's just like, hoi, yo, yo, yo, hoi,

00:44:23.329 --> 00:44:27.050
yo. Yeah, yeah. He's just like... He does it

00:44:27.050 --> 00:44:28.690
for, like, five minutes, too, and everybody else

00:44:28.690 --> 00:44:31.670
has got to sit there. Yeah. Yeah, there's something

00:44:31.670 --> 00:44:34.269
really bizarre about that moment and the kind

00:44:34.269 --> 00:44:37.389
of... I don't know. I don't really have that

00:44:37.389 --> 00:44:41.170
one sussed out, but there's something about that

00:44:41.170 --> 00:44:44.289
that I find really interesting, even though I

00:44:44.289 --> 00:44:46.110
don't know exactly what it's trying to say. I

00:44:46.110 --> 00:44:49.769
find it pretty clownish. Yeah, it's pretty clownish.

00:44:51.829 --> 00:44:54.570
And they all get evacuated for some reason that

00:44:54.570 --> 00:44:56.230
they don't really go into, but I guess there's

00:44:56.230 --> 00:44:59.110
some kind of threat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't

00:44:59.110 --> 00:45:00.750
know. To their lives, and they all have to, like,

00:45:00.769 --> 00:45:04.000
peace out or whatever. Yeah. Lester at the counterculture

00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:07.980
party is hilarious, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:45:08.360 --> 00:45:11.519
He's like, why not? Hop in the hot tub. Yeah,

00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:13.940
he wants to get in the hot tub. He starts following

00:45:13.940 --> 00:45:16.239
that topless woman and runs into the window.

00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:20.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He plays it off. He just smiles

00:45:20.920 --> 00:45:23.019
and points at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's great.

00:45:23.579 --> 00:45:25.780
He's having a really good time. He's so good

00:45:25.780 --> 00:45:30.300
in this movie. And he's really likable. He is

00:45:30.300 --> 00:45:32.460
really likable, yeah. He's, like, not an evil

00:45:32.460 --> 00:45:34.840
guy. He's much more likable than George. Yeah.

00:45:34.900 --> 00:45:37.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, yeah, him at the counterculture

00:45:37.820 --> 00:45:40.179
party, the idea that he just, like, is having

00:45:40.179 --> 00:45:42.039
a blast, that he doesn't have some sort of, like,

00:45:42.039 --> 00:45:44.360
conservative ideals behind him that are like,

00:45:44.420 --> 00:45:47.800
oh, this is so below me. This hippie stuff is...

00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:50.820
It's like, no, no, he and fucking Warren Beatty

00:45:50.820 --> 00:45:53.900
have the same love of pussy. You know what I

00:45:53.900 --> 00:45:56.000
mean? It's just that he's not playing the games

00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:57.800
of, like, going to that party to make somebody

00:45:57.800 --> 00:45:59.619
jealous about this thing and cheat on this person

00:45:59.619 --> 00:46:01.920
with that thing. Like, he's... He'll cheat on

00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:03.059
people, he'll get pussy, but then he'll just

00:46:03.059 --> 00:46:06.119
pay his girlfriend to not be mad about it. He's

00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:08.840
got enough power to take care of all of these

00:46:08.840 --> 00:46:10.800
things. This is just him on a little vacation

00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:13.380
or whatever, whereas this is George's whole life.

00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:16.300
This is Warren Beatty's whole life. I mean, Lester

00:46:16.300 --> 00:46:18.880
also says to George, you have more freedom, my

00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:21.420
life, or whatever. He doesn't go into details,

00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:24.079
but he implies that he has less freedom than

00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:27.019
George. That George gets to do whatever he wants,

00:46:27.139 --> 00:46:29.920
and Lester actually is bound by lots of responsibilities.

00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:34.989
Right. Right. Totally. Totally. But George is

00:46:34.989 --> 00:46:37.869
bound by lots of promises he's made to lots of

00:46:37.869 --> 00:46:40.849
women. And so if he goes to this party that like

00:46:40.849 --> 00:46:43.949
could elevate him to some new level, he can't

00:46:43.949 --> 00:46:46.349
because he's got all of these things dragging

00:46:46.349 --> 00:46:49.110
him down from his past of going around and promising

00:46:49.110 --> 00:46:52.090
all these things and never becoming, you know

00:46:52.090 --> 00:46:56.230
what I mean? Do you think George actually has

00:46:56.230 --> 00:46:58.670
an agenda in that last scene at all? He's bringing

00:46:58.670 --> 00:47:01.570
her to that party to make a move on her and to

00:47:01.570 --> 00:47:04.630
say, fuck the deal with Lester and I don't care.

00:47:05.690 --> 00:47:07.769
I just don't know that he's actually thinking

00:47:07.769 --> 00:47:10.389
about anything. I just think he doesn't know

00:47:10.389 --> 00:47:14.369
what to do. He's like a bag blown in the breeze,

00:47:14.550 --> 00:47:18.730
dude. Yeah, exactly. I mean, he really doesn't

00:47:18.730 --> 00:47:20.769
understand anything, too. The scene of him in

00:47:20.769 --> 00:47:24.639
the bank. You know, when that scene opens, the

00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:28.039
banker is like explaining to him like the rising

00:47:28.039 --> 00:47:30.699
interest rates for taking out loans and like

00:47:30.699 --> 00:47:33.340
brings up the Federal Housing Authority and like

00:47:33.340 --> 00:47:36.380
the rates they just set and has nothing to do

00:47:36.380 --> 00:47:39.460
with inflation. Rates rise independently of type

00:47:39.460 --> 00:47:40.980
money and whatever. And he's like going on this

00:47:40.980 --> 00:47:43.320
little spiel and he can just see in George's

00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:45.820
face that like none of it is registering. Yeah.

00:47:45.980 --> 00:47:47.619
He just doesn't understand anything this guy

00:47:47.619 --> 00:47:50.039
is talking about. It's kind of like Goldie Hawn's

00:47:50.039 --> 00:47:52.360
character. would act in that same situation.

00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:55.079
You know what I mean? It's like, what, what?

00:47:55.539 --> 00:47:58.360
Okay. But like, you'll get me. Can I have a,

00:47:58.380 --> 00:48:01.340
you know what I mean? And this scene actually

00:48:01.340 --> 00:48:03.360
very much mirrors the scene where Goldie Hawn

00:48:03.360 --> 00:48:06.360
is, um, with her producers and, and like turning

00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:08.340
down the Egypt job or whatever. It's the whole

00:48:08.340 --> 00:48:10.920
thing of like, you make a little bit too much

00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:13.860
of a stink and you show too much of your, uh,

00:48:14.570 --> 00:48:16.409
your real feelings on something. And then, and

00:48:16.409 --> 00:48:18.869
then it shuts down the deal too early when really

00:48:18.869 --> 00:48:22.489
you did want to take it. Like what happens with

00:48:22.489 --> 00:48:24.429
George is he just starts yelling at the guy.

00:48:24.489 --> 00:48:26.170
He just says like, how do you expect to loan

00:48:26.170 --> 00:48:27.449
me money if you don't know anything about my

00:48:27.449 --> 00:48:29.429
business? And like, and then I'm thinking like,

00:48:29.510 --> 00:48:31.530
well, how do you expect him to loan you money

00:48:31.530 --> 00:48:32.869
if you don't know anything about interest rates?

00:48:33.269 --> 00:48:37.550
But the guy's just like, I don't. And he just

00:48:37.550 --> 00:48:39.670
closes the book. It was just like, and then after

00:48:39.670 --> 00:48:41.369
that moment, George is like, can I have one of

00:48:41.369 --> 00:48:44.949
those financial statement sheets? which is what

00:48:44.949 --> 00:48:47.969
he was saying. The banker was just saying that,

00:48:48.030 --> 00:48:50.630
George, did you fill out a financial statement

00:48:50.630 --> 00:48:52.949
form or whatever, a financial declaration form

00:48:52.949 --> 00:48:55.570
or whatever? And George is like, what is all

00:48:55.570 --> 00:48:57.829
this shit? You don't know anything about my business?

00:48:58.230 --> 00:49:03.969
I have clients. That's my shit. But yeah, and

00:49:03.969 --> 00:49:05.230
then him turning around at the end and just being

00:49:05.230 --> 00:49:08.010
like, oh, wait. Like, he's not going to, he just

00:49:08.010 --> 00:49:09.750
shut this down. Like, I'm not getting a loan.

00:49:10.110 --> 00:49:12.309
Okay, I'll take a financial statement for him.

00:49:12.630 --> 00:49:14.710
And he doesn't, and he doesn't fill it out. He

00:49:14.710 --> 00:49:16.710
throws it away and throws the trash can and,

00:49:16.750 --> 00:49:20.690
like, throws the trash can. And puts it back

00:49:20.690 --> 00:49:24.690
on. And puts it back on. Very funny. I'm at the

00:49:24.690 --> 00:49:26.889
epitome of my life. I've been disgusted with

00:49:26.889 --> 00:49:30.409
my life. I love how he says that in the same

00:49:30.409 --> 00:49:32.090
breath, too. That's, like, before he goes to

00:49:32.090 --> 00:49:34.010
the bank. He's, like, the first scene with, uh.

00:49:34.759 --> 00:49:37.380
When he goes back and sees Goldie Hawn for the

00:49:37.380 --> 00:49:40.260
first time in the apartment, he's like, things

00:49:40.260 --> 00:49:41.719
are going good. I'm going to go to the bank tomorrow,

00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:45.199
and I'm at the epitome of my life. And then the

00:49:45.199 --> 00:49:47.500
next line, he says, I've been disgusted with

00:49:47.500 --> 00:49:48.760
my life. He's like, you just said you were at

00:49:48.760 --> 00:49:52.360
the epitome. He's like, well, yeah, I am. So

00:49:52.360 --> 00:49:54.380
it's like, yeah, it's very clear he's in this

00:49:54.380 --> 00:49:56.980
place where he's like, oh, this is all over.

00:49:57.199 --> 00:49:59.420
There's no future for me anymore if I keep doing

00:49:59.420 --> 00:50:02.119
this. But it's like we blew it. It's too late.

00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:04.900
You're not equipped to go to the bank and get

00:50:04.900 --> 00:50:07.860
a loan. You can't become Jack Warden. It's not

00:50:07.860 --> 00:50:11.320
going to happen for you. You chose now over later,

00:50:11.460 --> 00:50:16.460
and you didn't make any investments. And I bet

00:50:16.460 --> 00:50:18.980
you had a really, really great time, but now

00:50:18.980 --> 00:50:22.679
you're disgusted with it. Yep, yep. And you're

00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:24.300
not with a single person you can imagine growing

00:50:24.300 --> 00:50:27.679
old with. And it's a dead end. It's very sad.

00:50:27.780 --> 00:50:30.750
It's a dead end for you, Ben. It's a dead end

00:50:30.750 --> 00:50:35.949
for the American left already by 75. I like how

00:50:35.949 --> 00:50:37.650
the movie begins and ends with Wouldn't It Be

00:50:37.650 --> 00:50:40.070
Nice by the Beach Boys. Yeah, yeah. Oh, dude,

00:50:40.070 --> 00:50:42.590
I love all the Beatles shit in it, too. It's

00:50:42.590 --> 00:50:46.670
like, I love how Ashby just uses Beatles music.

00:50:47.550 --> 00:50:50.150
Yeah, they actually have Lucy in the Sky with

00:50:50.150 --> 00:50:52.849
Diamonds playing in the last scene, like Sgt.

00:50:52.909 --> 00:50:55.630
Pepper's stuff. Yeah, it's just like, I'm sure

00:50:55.630 --> 00:50:56.489
it didn't cost anything at that point. And the

00:50:56.489 --> 00:50:58.829
whole soundtrack's by Paul Simon, right? Is it?

00:50:59.340 --> 00:51:01.260
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Paul Simon did the soundtrack

00:51:01.260 --> 00:51:04.900
to this movie. I would like to double check before...

00:51:04.900 --> 00:51:09.420
Yeah, Paul Simon was the composer. Wow, I didn't

00:51:09.420 --> 00:51:12.500
even notice that. And Simon and Garfunkel's music

00:51:12.500 --> 00:51:15.000
was very heavily featured in The Graduate, which

00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:17.940
was 68, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they

00:51:17.940 --> 00:51:20.840
wrote that soundtrack too, I'm pretty sure. They

00:51:20.840 --> 00:51:24.219
did original music for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:26.619
The soundtrack was by Simon and Garfunkel, but

00:51:26.619 --> 00:51:30.619
they still featured... sound of silence and yeah

00:51:30.619 --> 00:51:33.579
a couple songs they had already i think but they

00:51:33.579 --> 00:51:37.019
wrote mrs robinson for that movie yeah and um

00:51:37.019 --> 00:51:40.099
and some of the interludes and stuff um sure

00:51:40.099 --> 00:51:43.539
but i don't know why i was like um i guess the

00:51:43.539 --> 00:51:46.380
graduate is like another movie that feels sort

00:51:46.380 --> 00:51:50.699
of connected to this um yeah definitely definitely

00:51:50.699 --> 00:51:55.110
same era i mean i don't know that it's As much

00:51:55.110 --> 00:51:56.989
talking about, well, I don't know, talking about

00:51:56.989 --> 00:51:58.989
the Beverly Hills elite in a certain way and

00:51:58.989 --> 00:52:04.989
the male -female dynamics and the sort of powerful,

00:52:05.150 --> 00:52:09.010
seductress, female entrapment affair scenario

00:52:09.010 --> 00:52:12.329
and the thing of like, you know, being with the

00:52:12.329 --> 00:52:14.429
mother but actually wanting to be with the daughter

00:52:14.429 --> 00:52:18.539
and then in the end running. to, you know, like

00:52:18.539 --> 00:52:20.619
the graduate doesn't have like quite as cynical

00:52:20.619 --> 00:52:22.500
of an ending because he kind of gets the girl

00:52:22.500 --> 00:52:23.840
and he runs away with her. But then there's that

00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:25.780
look on their face at the end where it's like,

00:52:25.860 --> 00:52:29.099
Oh, what did we just do? Yeah. Um, I feel like

00:52:29.099 --> 00:52:31.719
there's a lot of similarities there as well,

00:52:31.840 --> 00:52:33.980
but these are all like sixties movies, you know,

00:52:33.980 --> 00:52:36.579
all these kinds of late sixties, like movies

00:52:36.579 --> 00:52:39.860
about transitioning and growing up and what it

00:52:39.860 --> 00:52:42.320
means to be a kid and to have ideals and to become

00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:45.900
an adult. to throw away all those ideals for

00:52:45.900 --> 00:52:48.739
comfort and security and whatever. And all these

00:52:48.739 --> 00:52:51.659
things kind of run through all these movies.

00:52:52.500 --> 00:52:55.079
No, totally. Totally. What I think is interesting

00:52:55.079 --> 00:52:57.199
though, is shampoo is made by a guy who like

00:52:57.199 --> 00:53:01.639
is such a leftist hippie ass dude. Like, you

00:53:01.639 --> 00:53:03.400
know what I mean? And to be making something

00:53:03.400 --> 00:53:06.440
that's kind of like we've done, like it, there's

00:53:06.440 --> 00:53:08.840
like nothing Jack Warden does wrong really. Like,

00:53:08.840 --> 00:53:11.739
and Warren Beatty is kind of the worst, like,

00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:15.780
you know, and, The idea that Hal Ashby is making

00:53:15.780 --> 00:53:18.920
this movie that's kind of so hard on his own

00:53:18.920 --> 00:53:22.119
paradigm and so cynical about his side of things

00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:24.260
is kind of awesome. Because I don't think that

00:53:24.260 --> 00:53:27.400
he actually sides with Jack Warden. I think that

00:53:27.400 --> 00:53:29.019
he actually is kind of like, isn't it fucked

00:53:29.019 --> 00:53:32.079
that you have to side with Jack Warden? You know

00:53:32.079 --> 00:53:36.519
what I mean? It's like, I don't like this capitalist

00:53:36.519 --> 00:53:41.059
paradigm thing or whatever, but also... I guess

00:53:41.059 --> 00:53:44.800
all of my people are worse. We also have to remember

00:53:44.800 --> 00:53:47.760
that this movie was made in 75, so he's looking

00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:50.559
back at 68, and there's been some hindsight.

00:53:50.679 --> 00:53:53.659
Nixon already won, and the Vietnam shit happened,

00:53:53.739 --> 00:53:56.079
and Watergate already happened, right? Right,

00:53:56.079 --> 00:53:58.460
right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all the Nixon

00:53:58.460 --> 00:54:01.380
stuff is tinged with that idea that this is wrong,

00:54:01.460 --> 00:54:04.460
and it leads to that. Yeah, exactly. And that's

00:54:04.460 --> 00:54:07.760
kind of the thing. But it's so hard on the other

00:54:07.760 --> 00:54:10.760
side of things, too. It's that's the thing. I

00:54:10.760 --> 00:54:13.179
really it's very cynical. It's very cynical.

00:54:13.980 --> 00:54:17.480
I really like how the clip of Nixon on the television

00:54:17.480 --> 00:54:20.400
at the end, he's saying something along the lines

00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:22.420
of I want this to be the party that brings us

00:54:22.420 --> 00:54:25.039
together. I want this to be the unified party,

00:54:25.159 --> 00:54:27.360
the open party. We're going to be open to new

00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:30.739
ideas and stuff like that. It's just like it's

00:54:30.739 --> 00:54:33.579
like it's the kind of thing that like you don't

00:54:33.579 --> 00:54:37.050
ever like. I mean, Nixon obviously had a lot

00:54:37.050 --> 00:54:38.909
of speeches, so do all politicians. And, like,

00:54:38.949 --> 00:54:41.789
the things that get cherry -picked from Nixon

00:54:41.789 --> 00:54:44.869
that we all know about feel like paint a very

00:54:44.869 --> 00:54:46.829
different picture than what Nixon actually was

00:54:46.829 --> 00:54:48.530
like and a lot of the things he actually did

00:54:48.530 --> 00:54:51.809
and said. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There just seems

00:54:51.809 --> 00:54:54.210
to be an element of that, too, where it's like,

00:54:54.289 --> 00:54:56.730
I never would have imagined Nixon making a speech

00:54:56.730 --> 00:54:59.190
like, we want to be the open party that's open

00:54:59.190 --> 00:55:02.210
to new ideas because he's always kind of just

00:55:02.210 --> 00:55:07.510
like... cast as like basically a fascist or whatever

00:55:07.510 --> 00:55:10.010
just like an evil president who was just doing

00:55:10.010 --> 00:55:14.090
like evil things I think there's started to be

00:55:14.090 --> 00:55:16.349
a re -evaluation of Nixon over the past like

00:55:16.349 --> 00:55:20.190
several years but yeah well sure sure I mean

00:55:20.190 --> 00:55:23.170
I just listened to a pretty great podcast about

00:55:23.170 --> 00:55:26.340
like the truth of Watergate I think it was on

00:55:26.340 --> 00:55:29.679
Matt and Shane. Yeah, they had some conspiracy

00:55:29.679 --> 00:55:31.659
guy on. Yeah, it was interesting. They had some

00:55:31.659 --> 00:55:34.500
conspiracy guy on to talk about what really happened

00:55:34.500 --> 00:55:36.440
at Watergate. And I don't fucking know, man.

00:55:36.539 --> 00:55:38.960
But, like, it was just interesting to hear a

00:55:38.960 --> 00:55:41.119
different perspective on how the whole thing

00:55:41.119 --> 00:55:44.699
went down. And kind of, like, gives you a really

00:55:44.699 --> 00:55:47.440
different perspective of Nixon. Like, I don't

00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:50.059
know. He, like, he wasn't even talking about

00:55:50.059 --> 00:55:52.159
a lot of the good things Nixon did that actually

00:55:52.159 --> 00:55:55.869
did unify. Well, yeah, like ending Vietnam and

00:55:55.869 --> 00:55:57.070
stuff, right? He brought China into the fold.

00:55:57.349 --> 00:56:00.989
He got us out of Vietnam, didn't he? Nixon did

00:56:00.989 --> 00:56:04.030
start to draw us out of Vietnam. So you could

00:56:04.030 --> 00:56:06.610
say he was partly responsible. But the war didn't

00:56:06.610 --> 00:56:11.730
actually end until 75 after he resigned. Yeah,

00:56:11.889 --> 00:56:15.789
right. But whatever, dude. But I've heard Matthew

00:56:15.789 --> 00:56:18.809
Weiner talk about Nixon a lot because that's

00:56:18.809 --> 00:56:22.489
like his favorite president or whatever. um or

00:56:22.489 --> 00:56:24.530
something like he's like obsessed with nixon

00:56:24.530 --> 00:56:27.750
um and and just like the idea that nixon got

00:56:27.750 --> 00:56:29.789
in trouble for having a safe of like a million

00:56:29.789 --> 00:56:32.269
dollars is just kind of like well dude like if

00:56:32.269 --> 00:56:33.710
you're a president you don't have a safe of a

00:56:33.710 --> 00:56:35.429
million dollars of like hush money then like

00:56:35.429 --> 00:56:37.809
what the fuck is this you know what i mean i

00:56:37.809 --> 00:56:39.730
expect my president to have a million dollars

00:56:39.730 --> 00:56:42.230
of hush money and like whatever and like the

00:56:42.230 --> 00:56:44.630
fucking actual watergate thing is just like such

00:56:44.630 --> 00:56:48.360
a dude this is like Shit that happened all the

00:56:48.360 --> 00:56:51.260
time. It still happens all the time. The idea

00:56:51.260 --> 00:56:53.639
of getting somebody for this is like, what do

00:56:53.639 --> 00:56:56.659
you think politics is? You don't think they're

00:56:56.659 --> 00:57:00.440
spying on each other? That's just part and parcel

00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:04.820
with what the fucking thing is. And taking somebody

00:57:04.820 --> 00:57:07.599
down for that is kind of like, I don't know,

00:57:07.699 --> 00:57:11.199
taking down a president for jaywalking or getting

00:57:11.199 --> 00:57:13.059
a prostitute or something. It's like getting

00:57:13.059 --> 00:57:15.380
a president off for paying hush money to a...

00:57:16.099 --> 00:57:18.739
Porn star. Yeah, do a porn star. That's what

00:57:18.739 --> 00:57:21.940
I'm saying. You had to go that far to find something

00:57:21.940 --> 00:57:24.159
that this guy did wrong. That's rough, dude.

00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:27.300
That's embarrassing for you. Because you were

00:57:27.300 --> 00:57:30.119
out there defending your president who got his

00:57:30.119 --> 00:57:32.659
dick sucked by his secretary and then lied about

00:57:32.659 --> 00:57:34.579
it in the Supreme Court. You know what I mean?

00:57:34.780 --> 00:57:37.940
And now it's like, well, this guy 10 years ago

00:57:37.940 --> 00:57:40.820
had an incident with a prostitute and then paid

00:57:40.820 --> 00:57:44.019
her money not to talk about it or something.

00:57:44.119 --> 00:57:47.860
You know what I mean? Okay. Never mind. This

00:57:47.860 --> 00:57:50.280
is a whole... It doesn't matter. The point is...

00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:52.099
Yeah, this is definitely... Nitpicking these

00:57:52.099 --> 00:57:54.800
things is like it has nothing to do with, you

00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:57.579
know, morals or whatever. It has to do with the

00:57:57.579 --> 00:58:01.320
power structure. But that's why I like an ambiguous,

00:58:01.320 --> 00:58:04.900
nuanced expression of these ideas, like in Shampoo.

00:58:06.079 --> 00:58:12.099
I like movies where you portray people like Lester

00:58:12.099 --> 00:58:16.210
who, in... A lot of movies, like, you know, the

00:58:16.210 --> 00:58:18.590
big money people are just portrayed as evil fucks

00:58:18.590 --> 00:58:20.809
who just, like, have no redeemable qualities

00:58:20.809 --> 00:58:23.829
whatsoever. Yeah, yeah. The thing is, man, I

00:58:23.829 --> 00:58:26.389
think Hal Ashby might think he's kind of an evil

00:58:26.389 --> 00:58:29.489
fuck, but, like, he's not willing to portray

00:58:29.489 --> 00:58:31.230
him as one or something. You know what I mean?

00:58:31.250 --> 00:58:33.030
There's something, I don't know. It's like, I

00:58:33.030 --> 00:58:35.050
feel like politically Hal Ashby is on the side

00:58:35.050 --> 00:58:37.389
of things, but then, like, does something to

00:58:37.389 --> 00:58:39.289
make the movie better, which is like, oh, well,

00:58:39.329 --> 00:58:41.409
let's not make him a... you know, evil cartoon.

00:58:41.530 --> 00:58:43.190
Let's make him a real guy. And it's like, oh,

00:58:43.230 --> 00:58:44.530
well, actually, this... Well, he's also trying

00:58:44.530 --> 00:58:48.010
to make a comedy. And... Yeah. It really helps

00:58:48.010 --> 00:58:50.530
that Lester's just a funny character. Yeah, yeah,

00:58:50.570 --> 00:58:53.289
yeah. And, like, he turns Lester into a clown,

00:58:53.409 --> 00:58:57.150
which does undermine him in some ways. But in

00:58:57.150 --> 00:59:00.110
the end, he still is the powerful guy who has

00:59:00.110 --> 00:59:02.269
the money. He's the daddy who the girl goes with,

00:59:02.369 --> 00:59:04.510
you know? Yeah. No matter how clownish she made

00:59:04.510 --> 00:59:07.980
him look, like... He still had that power, and

00:59:07.980 --> 00:59:10.000
he had that in the bag. Exactly. And he also

00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:12.280
makes George look like a fucking clown, too.

00:59:12.460 --> 00:59:15.159
So, like, they're both just fucking clowns, you

00:59:15.159 --> 00:59:18.440
know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Completely. And

00:59:18.440 --> 00:59:20.460
he's like, yeah, I guess it really is that, like,

00:59:20.460 --> 00:59:22.219
the Spider -Man meme where they're all just pointing

00:59:22.219 --> 00:59:23.800
at one another. Just like, yeah, you're all Spider

00:59:23.800 --> 00:59:26.300
-Man. You're all clowns. You're all just like...

00:59:26.300 --> 00:59:29.920
Yep, yep. It's like, oh, it was you. It was you,

00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:32.280
too. Oh, we all did this together. Like, it was,

00:59:32.300 --> 00:59:37.860
you know? Yeah. I really like when Lester is

00:59:37.860 --> 00:59:40.460
telling that blind child story, too. Do you remember

00:59:40.460 --> 00:59:42.400
that? It's sort of out of context, but he's just

00:59:42.400 --> 00:59:45.739
like, and then all the blind children came out

00:59:45.739 --> 00:59:50.599
of the house. I guess they set up a pool or something.

00:59:50.659 --> 00:59:52.579
I don't remember the story specifically because

00:59:52.579 --> 00:59:55.019
you don't hear it, the whole story. But you get

00:59:55.019 --> 00:59:58.340
one small segment of a story where it sounds

00:59:58.340 --> 01:00:02.539
like Lester probably donated money to a blind

01:00:02.539 --> 01:00:05.340
child. house or like a charity that like takes

01:00:05.340 --> 01:00:08.920
care of blind people and he like describes watching

01:00:08.920 --> 01:00:10.880
all these blind children run out of a house and

01:00:10.880 --> 01:00:14.440
like trip and fall over one another like like

01:00:14.440 --> 01:00:17.719
trying to get to this pool or some nice thing

01:00:17.719 --> 01:00:19.559
that they set up for them or whatever and him

01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:23.000
just like feeling just so satisfied that he'd

01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:27.099
done something for these kids while laughing

01:00:27.099 --> 01:00:31.860
at them yeah yeah it's really it's funny there's

01:00:31.860 --> 01:00:36.059
a lot of moments like that yeah and I don't know

01:00:36.059 --> 01:00:38.119
what the deal with this line is too but another

01:00:38.119 --> 01:00:40.760
thing I wanted to just like bring up because

01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:42.739
it's hilarious is when George says the follicle

01:00:42.739 --> 01:00:48.340
never dies yeah yeah yeah I beg to differ my

01:00:48.340 --> 01:00:54.019
scalp begs to differ yeah yeah yeah I love him

01:00:54.019 --> 01:00:57.019
telling Jack Gordon. He's claiming that washing

01:00:57.019 --> 01:00:59.579
your hair is actually good for it. Right, right,

01:00:59.579 --> 01:01:01.860
right. I think it's pretty well known by now

01:01:01.860 --> 01:01:04.940
that actually if you wash your hair with the

01:01:04.940 --> 01:01:07.340
products we have pretty consistently, it actually

01:01:07.340 --> 01:01:09.960
does a lot of damage to your hair over time.

01:01:10.519 --> 01:01:13.760
But it may be better for the follicles to massage

01:01:13.760 --> 01:01:15.039
the scalp. But it might be better for the follicle,

01:01:15.059 --> 01:01:17.039
and the follicle can always, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:01:17.500 --> 01:01:20.420
You have to get all the dead skin off. My dad

01:01:20.420 --> 01:01:22.750
is the least bald of all of his brothers. And

01:01:22.750 --> 01:01:24.590
he claims it's because he, like, scratches his

01:01:24.590 --> 01:01:27.869
head every day with his, what he, like, does

01:01:27.869 --> 01:01:30.030
his shampoo. He, like, really scratches in there.

01:01:31.150 --> 01:01:33.150
Oh, wow. Maybe there's something to it then.

01:01:33.190 --> 01:01:37.650
That's his claim. He's like, no, you gotta stimulate

01:01:37.650 --> 01:01:42.409
it. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But, yeah, the other,

01:01:42.449 --> 01:01:44.150
like, small notes I wanted to make were just

01:01:44.150 --> 01:01:47.409
observations, like, how often people say, great.

01:01:48.349 --> 01:01:50.570
Like, you're great, honey. He says, like, you're

01:01:50.570 --> 01:01:53.070
great, honey, to, like, all the women. Just people

01:01:53.070 --> 01:01:54.909
saying, like, everything's great. Everyone's

01:01:54.909 --> 01:01:56.869
great. Everything's great. Everything's so great

01:01:56.869 --> 01:01:59.829
in the movie. Okay, okay. I just like the idea

01:01:59.829 --> 01:02:02.130
that that word is used so much. I could dig it.

01:02:02.530 --> 01:02:07.010
I liked how Felicia was saying, your numbers,

01:02:07.130 --> 01:02:10.010
when she's talking to George about all of the

01:02:10.010 --> 01:02:11.369
women he sleeps with. It's like, your numbers,

01:02:11.489 --> 01:02:13.090
your numbers. He doesn't understand her at first.

01:02:13.150 --> 01:02:15.489
He's like, what? Your numbers, your numbers.

01:02:15.809 --> 01:02:16.989
Right, right, right. Because I also feel like

01:02:16.989 --> 01:02:18.750
that's the kind of thing that she would say to

01:02:18.750 --> 01:02:20.989
Lester. Your numbers, your numbers, the money,

01:02:21.110 --> 01:02:24.000
you know, like. But then I guess the other thing

01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:27.039
was I wanted to just give a shout out to the

01:02:27.039 --> 01:02:30.460
black hair washer whose son is in the military.

01:02:31.079 --> 01:02:34.440
Yeah, yeah. Who dies? No, her son doesn't die.

01:02:34.719 --> 01:02:38.920
It's the gay hairdresser whose son dies. Yeah,

01:02:38.940 --> 01:02:42.239
yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he doesn't

01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:46.699
die in combat. He dies like some... He gets killed

01:02:46.699 --> 01:02:48.800
in a car accident or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:49.500 --> 01:02:50.880
And so I thought that was another interesting

01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:54.039
thing. There's not many black characters in this

01:02:54.039 --> 01:02:56.659
movie, and your one black character is the black

01:02:56.659 --> 01:02:58.500
hair washer in the back, and he has a little

01:02:58.500 --> 01:02:59.960
bit of rapport with her. He's like, how's your

01:02:59.960 --> 01:03:02.480
son doing and stuff? She's the only one he actually

01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:05.960
kind of talks to when he gets there, and everyone

01:03:05.960 --> 01:03:07.960
else he's just trying to either ignore or bounce

01:03:07.960 --> 01:03:09.079
around. Yeah, because he's not trying to sleep

01:03:09.079 --> 01:03:13.019
with her because she's black. That could be it.

01:03:13.820 --> 01:03:18.639
But I like just the shout -out of the sort of

01:03:18.639 --> 01:03:21.530
like, black hair washer who has a son in the

01:03:21.530 --> 01:03:24.969
military in vietnam you know because like they

01:03:24.969 --> 01:03:26.769
they be the ones who are getting drafted you

01:03:26.769 --> 01:03:28.570
know right right well i think that's there's

01:03:28.570 --> 01:03:30.750
the the actual suffering of the people around

01:03:30.750 --> 01:03:34.730
that like totally almost completely doesn't touch

01:03:34.730 --> 01:03:38.059
this movie but This is happening in like a crisis

01:03:38.059 --> 01:03:40.139
time. This is white people first world problems.

01:03:40.360 --> 01:03:43.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like you do see like, oh

01:03:43.539 --> 01:03:46.139
no, just like just outside of this movie, there

01:03:46.139 --> 01:03:48.320
are people actually paying consequences for the

01:03:48.320 --> 01:03:50.320
things that we're seeing. And that's kind of

01:03:50.320 --> 01:03:54.940
where I think Hal Ashby's sort of viewpoint sort

01:03:54.940 --> 01:03:56.539
of comes through. You know what I mean? Where

01:03:56.539 --> 01:03:59.019
like this movie may side with one over the other,

01:03:59.059 --> 01:04:01.980
but like this is in a... political game sphere

01:04:01.980 --> 01:04:05.219
of this like world that barely even really exists

01:04:05.219 --> 01:04:07.280
like you know what i mean it's like this fantasy

01:04:07.280 --> 01:04:09.860
world that the rich and powerful like exist in

01:04:09.860 --> 01:04:11.760
and whatever the left and the right and the blah

01:04:11.760 --> 01:04:14.820
blah blah but like the real people who are paying

01:04:14.820 --> 01:04:18.900
for this like are still there like right outside

01:04:18.900 --> 01:04:22.460
of that like and they're the real majority um

01:04:22.460 --> 01:04:25.980
and and i like how little of that there is in

01:04:25.980 --> 01:04:28.840
that movie because it allows that tiny bit to

01:04:28.840 --> 01:04:30.679
kind of come through it's like oh This movie's

01:04:30.679 --> 01:04:32.679
really ignoring a lot of stuff. It's also something

01:04:32.679 --> 01:04:34.860
I think is great. It reminded me of... In Mad

01:04:34.860 --> 01:04:36.679
Men, too. It reminded me of Mad Men. Yeah, yeah,

01:04:36.760 --> 01:04:40.300
yeah. Where, like, the occasional... The counterculture

01:04:40.300 --> 01:04:42.179
and the black people are not the focus of the

01:04:42.179 --> 01:04:43.760
story. It's all the white people and the people

01:04:43.760 --> 01:04:45.840
at the top of the tree. What was the expression,

01:04:46.019 --> 01:04:47.599
the people at the top of the tree? It's a story

01:04:47.599 --> 01:04:49.320
about what happens to the top of the tree when

01:04:49.320 --> 01:04:51.579
it starts to shake. Mm -hmm. I could see that.

01:04:52.360 --> 01:04:54.280
But, yeah, and then the last thing would just

01:04:54.280 --> 01:04:58.639
be, like, when Norman, the gay salon owner...

01:04:58.920 --> 01:05:02.059
calls him back to be like, why aren't you collecting

01:05:02.059 --> 01:05:06.559
money for the coffee? And George kind of pretends

01:05:06.559 --> 01:05:08.840
that he has morals in this moment. I guess this

01:05:08.840 --> 01:05:12.019
is one of those moments where he's sort of expressing

01:05:12.019 --> 01:05:15.059
how he feels like it's wrong to nickel and dime

01:05:15.059 --> 01:05:18.340
people like that in a way. But really, it's probably

01:05:18.340 --> 01:05:20.599
just he's lazy and he doesn't want to do it and

01:05:20.599 --> 01:05:22.179
he's overwhelmed and just doesn't feel like it.

01:05:22.219 --> 01:05:24.059
And plus, asking all the women for the coffee

01:05:24.059 --> 01:05:26.880
money is not sexy. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah,

01:05:26.980 --> 01:05:29.840
yeah. But I love how Norm is just like, if you

01:05:29.840 --> 01:05:32.260
don't learn how to nickel and dime people, you're

01:05:32.260 --> 01:05:35.239
not going to get anywhere. Right. And you might

01:05:35.239 --> 01:05:37.280
as well just be speaking to the left. Like, yeah,

01:05:37.300 --> 01:05:42.159
yeah, yeah. And he's the gay guy. He's like,

01:05:42.500 --> 01:05:46.519
you know, I like how there's sort of like this

01:05:46.519 --> 01:05:48.579
gay character who's telling him he needs to be

01:05:48.579 --> 01:05:52.139
a capitalist and nickel and dime people. But

01:05:52.139 --> 01:05:55.909
that gay character also has a son. So likely

01:05:55.909 --> 01:06:00.250
he has a wife. That's true. That could be true.

01:06:00.369 --> 01:06:02.670
The question is, is he just maybe the same as

01:06:02.670 --> 01:06:04.889
Warren Beatty? Maybe he's one step beyond Warren

01:06:04.889 --> 01:06:07.429
Beatty of being really gay? So maybe he fucks

01:06:07.429 --> 01:06:11.329
ten times as many women? Yeah, George just doesn't

01:06:11.329 --> 01:06:14.750
realize he's gay yet. No, no, I'm saying this

01:06:14.750 --> 01:06:17.710
guy, the guy who's in charge of the salon, who

01:06:17.710 --> 01:06:21.710
clearly is gay, maybe he isn't. Maybe that's

01:06:21.710 --> 01:06:24.480
the cover. That Warren Beatty's got of like,

01:06:24.619 --> 01:06:26.119
oh, well, he's a hairdresser. He's gay. This

01:06:26.119 --> 01:06:28.500
guy's like, oh, well, he talks like this and

01:06:28.500 --> 01:06:30.760
uses the hands and does everything. So he's obviously

01:06:30.760 --> 01:06:32.199
gay. And it's like, no, no, that guy's fucking

01:06:32.199 --> 01:06:35.780
even more girls. That guy is like Warren Beatty

01:06:35.780 --> 01:06:39.840
times 10. He's so gay. He's got like five sons.

01:06:40.099 --> 01:06:43.340
He's got a kid and a wife and like several. It's

01:06:43.340 --> 01:06:47.159
like that's real success. Of course, of course.

01:06:47.360 --> 01:06:49.039
Yeah, you never know, though. I think there's

01:06:49.039 --> 01:06:51.199
the ambiguity there. It's an interesting thing

01:06:51.199 --> 01:06:53.530
to introduce him. and then say that he has a

01:06:53.530 --> 01:06:56.889
son. If he has a son that was in the military,

01:06:57.050 --> 01:06:58.530
because I think that was also implied, but I'm

01:06:58.530 --> 01:07:00.510
not positive. I think his son was also in the

01:07:00.510 --> 01:07:01.989
military, and that's why it's kind of ironic

01:07:01.989 --> 01:07:04.949
that he doesn't die in the military. He gets

01:07:04.949 --> 01:07:07.769
out of his tour of duty and then dies in a car

01:07:07.769 --> 01:07:10.730
accident or something. Right, right. Just the

01:07:10.730 --> 01:07:13.789
irony of that. But if he has a son, his son must

01:07:13.789 --> 01:07:16.889
be at least 18, which means he had him back in

01:07:16.889 --> 01:07:21.139
the early 50s. Right, right. And at that time,

01:07:21.139 --> 01:07:23.360
if you were a gay guy, you were fucking women

01:07:23.360 --> 01:07:25.639
and pretending to be straight, you know? You

01:07:25.639 --> 01:07:28.019
were, like, trying to have a wife and all that

01:07:28.019 --> 01:07:31.840
stuff. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. But, yeah, at this point,

01:07:31.860 --> 01:07:33.380
I've gone through my notes. I feel like I've

01:07:33.380 --> 01:07:35.860
said most of what I want to say about this movie.

01:07:36.019 --> 01:07:39.099
It's a super interesting movie. And it's really

01:07:39.099 --> 01:07:42.219
funny. I just didn't get much into just, like,

01:07:42.219 --> 01:07:44.619
feelings about the movie and just my enjoyment

01:07:44.619 --> 01:07:47.739
of watching it. But I really like Shampoo a lot.

01:07:48.750 --> 01:07:51.929
It's really hardcore. Yeah, I enjoyed my second

01:07:51.929 --> 01:07:55.469
watch of it a lot. Yeah, there's, like, a lot

01:07:55.469 --> 01:07:59.630
of details. It's really expertly paced in the

01:07:59.630 --> 01:08:02.329
performances and the way, like, people are talking.

01:08:02.409 --> 01:08:04.250
It has, like, a manic, almost, like, Woody Allen

01:08:04.250 --> 01:08:08.389
sort of, like, dialogue vibe to it where, like,

01:08:08.389 --> 01:08:11.150
lots of people talk and talk over one another

01:08:11.150 --> 01:08:12.550
a little bit. And there's, like, a lot of, like,

01:08:12.570 --> 01:08:15.230
information and chaos a lot of the time. Yeah,

01:08:15.250 --> 01:08:18.420
yeah, yeah. Like almost an Altman vibe, you could

01:08:18.420 --> 01:08:22.619
say. Yeah, yeah. Well, he was also, well, Altman

01:08:22.619 --> 01:08:26.520
was McCabe and Mrs. Miller, right? Yeah. Yeah,

01:08:26.539 --> 01:08:31.939
so that was also like a BD movie. Yep, yep. But

01:08:31.939 --> 01:08:33.239
yeah, don't have much more to say. How about

01:08:33.239 --> 01:08:35.560
you, man? Nah, let's take a break. You want to

01:08:35.560 --> 01:08:37.680
move on to Red Rocket? Sound good, sound good.

01:08:37.699 --> 01:08:38.939
I really got to pee, man. I really got to pee.

01:08:39.420 --> 01:09:16.550
All right, let's go. All righty. Back from the

01:09:16.550 --> 01:09:21.149
break. All right. So Red Rocket? Yeah, yeah,

01:09:21.149 --> 01:09:25.109
Red Rocket. Yeah, so it was initially my idea

01:09:25.109 --> 01:09:28.529
to talk about Shampoo, and then we had to figure

01:09:28.529 --> 01:09:31.609
out something we could pair it with. And you

01:09:31.609 --> 01:09:34.390
had never seen Red Rocket. It's a movie I have

01:09:34.390 --> 01:09:37.729
been wanting to talk to you about. And for whatever

01:09:37.729 --> 01:09:39.550
reason, just seemed like a good movie to pair

01:09:39.550 --> 01:09:42.289
with Shampoo. And I guess we'll kind of work

01:09:42.289 --> 01:09:45.869
through some of the reasons. Why together? Totally.

01:09:46.069 --> 01:09:48.750
Totally. I felt this pairing. I think it makes

01:09:48.750 --> 01:09:50.710
a lot of sense. I think both of these movies

01:09:50.710 --> 01:09:53.989
are kind of about these walking penises. That's

01:09:53.989 --> 01:09:56.409
true. But I think what's interesting is both

01:09:56.409 --> 01:09:59.510
of them kind of have these walking penises in

01:09:59.510 --> 01:10:03.829
a sort of traditionally feminine role. And that's,

01:10:03.829 --> 01:10:07.149
I don't know. It's a weird specific thing that

01:10:07.149 --> 01:10:09.010
both of these movies are doing. So I thought

01:10:09.010 --> 01:10:12.109
that worked. Yeah. To me, I thought it was interesting

01:10:12.109 --> 01:10:15.109
that they were both kind of these apolitical

01:10:15.109 --> 01:10:19.329
movies. I don't really get the sense that Red

01:10:19.329 --> 01:10:22.409
Rocket has very specific politics. It's just

01:10:22.409 --> 01:10:26.810
another movie that's about politics. I think

01:10:26.810 --> 01:10:28.750
of Shampoo as a political movie, definitely.

01:10:29.229 --> 01:10:33.890
I don't know if I think it comes out with a...

01:10:34.199 --> 01:10:37.159
coherent statement or whatever, but it's definitely,

01:10:37.300 --> 01:10:39.739
to me, it's about politics. It's about the politics

01:10:39.739 --> 01:10:43.739
of power and male -female dynamics, left -right

01:10:43.739 --> 01:10:46.840
dynamics, culture -counterculture dynamics, that

01:10:46.840 --> 01:10:49.380
sort of thing, which I think of as all sort of

01:10:49.380 --> 01:10:52.319
political ideas. But I guess part of it just

01:10:52.319 --> 01:10:54.680
depends on how you define politics. I think what's

01:10:54.680 --> 01:10:58.939
interesting in Shampoo is you could think of

01:10:58.939 --> 01:11:03.289
Warren Beatty's character as being somebody who

01:11:03.289 --> 01:11:06.630
is residing in the world of politics and stuff

01:11:06.630 --> 01:11:10.789
whereas um lester jack warden's character is

01:11:10.789 --> 01:11:12.470
somebody who's sort of above those politics like

01:11:12.470 --> 01:11:13.829
you said when he's talking about nixon he's like

01:11:13.829 --> 01:11:16.010
ah who knows you know they're all shitheads or

01:11:16.010 --> 01:11:19.369
whatever the politics don't really matter to

01:11:19.369 --> 01:11:21.750
him because he has real power that are kind of

01:11:21.750 --> 01:11:23.850
above politics but i kind of think of that as

01:11:23.850 --> 01:11:27.630
a political idea too sure yeah so you know i

01:11:27.630 --> 01:11:29.050
think that's that's part of it and i think the

01:11:29.050 --> 01:11:31.670
red rocket It's hard to say that it has a political

01:11:31.670 --> 01:11:34.050
statement or anything, but I think there's...

01:11:34.050 --> 01:11:37.270
I don't know. I don't really think of it as nearly

01:11:37.270 --> 01:11:41.250
as political a movie as I think of Shampoo. But

01:11:41.250 --> 01:11:44.989
it does seem to think it is sometimes. Every

01:11:44.989 --> 01:11:50.369
time you see these Trump flags and election things

01:11:50.369 --> 01:11:54.689
in that movie, it's very similar to Shampoo having

01:11:54.689 --> 01:11:58.470
that background of the election. Yeah, yeah,

01:11:58.630 --> 01:12:01.979
yeah. I think Shampoo only takes place on one

01:12:01.979 --> 01:12:03.699
night and I think maybe a little bit the next

01:12:03.699 --> 01:12:07.199
morning. Right. Whereas Red Rocket takes place

01:12:07.199 --> 01:12:09.399
over the course of maybe a few months or something.

01:12:10.000 --> 01:12:13.159
But it is most certainly taking place in 2016

01:12:13.159 --> 01:12:17.579
during the 2016 presidential election. Right.

01:12:17.619 --> 01:12:21.439
You can see Trump signs. They're watching Trump

01:12:21.439 --> 01:12:23.640
debate Hillary at one point. And then they're

01:12:23.640 --> 01:12:25.359
watching the Republican National Convention at

01:12:25.359 --> 01:12:27.920
one point. Right. Where Trump is speaking at.

01:12:29.199 --> 01:12:31.560
And yeah, I like how both movies are sort of

01:12:31.560 --> 01:12:34.399
taking place in the environment of a political

01:12:34.399 --> 01:12:38.579
transition that's really big. Right. Right. And

01:12:38.579 --> 01:12:41.800
I think they both focus on male -female dynamics.

01:12:42.399 --> 01:12:46.159
I would agree that Red Rocket is not as much

01:12:46.159 --> 01:12:49.600
about a hippie -straight conversation. It's not

01:12:49.600 --> 01:12:54.060
as much about the culture -counterculture. I

01:12:54.060 --> 01:12:57.039
think that there's something to be said for a

01:12:57.039 --> 01:12:59.340
counterculture of pornography or something, but

01:12:59.340 --> 01:13:02.039
yeah, it's hard to... Well, I think we can get

01:13:02.039 --> 01:13:04.939
into it. I'm just saying, as a starting point,

01:13:05.020 --> 01:13:09.399
I feel Red Rocket is dealing with a single world,

01:13:09.500 --> 01:13:13.220
like all the inhabitants of Texas City in the

01:13:13.220 --> 01:13:18.539
Gulf. That's a certain type, and they're all

01:13:18.539 --> 01:13:21.869
kind of of that world. Whether they're men or

01:13:21.869 --> 01:13:25.109
women or whatever, it's not a movie that tries

01:13:25.109 --> 01:13:27.569
to have a character that's on the left and a

01:13:27.569 --> 01:13:29.670
character that's on the right and the differences

01:13:29.670 --> 01:13:31.670
between them and the similarities between them.

01:13:31.890 --> 01:13:37.930
Right, right. It's more just about the... I don't

01:13:37.930 --> 01:13:40.789
even know what you call it. Would you say...

01:13:40.789 --> 01:13:44.470
First of all, Mikey and his... Do you think these

01:13:44.470 --> 01:13:46.630
are Trump voters? Do you think the movie is trying

01:13:46.630 --> 01:13:49.800
to say that this is a land of Trump? These are

01:13:49.800 --> 01:13:52.960
people who want Trump to be in office. But we

01:13:52.960 --> 01:13:58.079
never once show Lexi and Lil rah -rah -ing at

01:13:58.079 --> 01:14:00.340
the television for Trump or something. Or saying,

01:14:00.560 --> 01:14:02.739
lock her up to Hillary. They're basically just

01:14:02.739 --> 01:14:06.260
zombies watching the TV. And they don't seem

01:14:06.260 --> 01:14:10.020
to be having any real reaction to it, whatever.

01:14:10.539 --> 01:14:13.420
Yeah, I mean, we see Lonnie's character, who's

01:14:13.420 --> 01:14:18.560
dressing like he's doing Stolen Valor. um stuff

01:14:18.560 --> 01:14:21.880
and trying to represent a certain idea of american

01:14:21.880 --> 01:14:24.800
masculinity or whatever that he can't quite encapsulate

01:14:24.800 --> 01:14:30.239
that seems to be on that sort of wavelength um

01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:32.739
but to me to me i think the way you're talking

01:14:32.739 --> 01:14:36.319
about this like the the trump stuff in red rocket

01:14:36.319 --> 01:14:39.720
feels kind of like the um soldier stuff in shampoo

01:14:39.720 --> 01:14:42.579
you know what i mean the sun that died or the

01:14:42.579 --> 01:14:44.640
sun that's in like the black sun that's in the

01:14:44.640 --> 01:14:46.760
military and that sort of thing where it's like

01:14:47.229 --> 01:14:50.729
there is real consequences outside of this movie

01:14:50.729 --> 01:14:52.989
to the thing that's happening in this movie.

01:14:53.090 --> 01:14:54.869
In Shampoo, we're looking at this, like, very

01:14:54.869 --> 01:14:58.529
specific Beverly Hills elite paradigm and how

01:14:58.529 --> 01:15:00.729
that's kind of being corrupted by the left and

01:15:00.729 --> 01:15:03.369
whatever so that they, you know, for a couple

01:15:03.369 --> 01:15:05.310
of years in the 60s went along with this leftist

01:15:05.310 --> 01:15:06.670
thing and whatever, but now they're going to

01:15:06.670 --> 01:15:08.909
go back to the right. In Red Rocket, we're looking

01:15:08.909 --> 01:15:13.250
at the Trump America and the way that they're

01:15:13.250 --> 01:15:16.640
living and the paradigms they exist in. And it

01:15:16.640 --> 01:15:20.760
seems to be trying to make this political point

01:15:20.760 --> 01:15:23.279
with the Trump thing of, like, oh, and there's

01:15:23.279 --> 01:15:25.260
the consequences of this that is that these,

01:15:25.380 --> 01:15:27.560
you know, people are electing dumb people or

01:15:27.560 --> 01:15:29.319
something. But, like, it doesn't seem to be actually

01:15:29.319 --> 01:15:32.460
ideologically connected to that at all. So that

01:15:32.460 --> 01:15:36.140
seems to me to be something that, like, maybe

01:15:36.140 --> 01:15:38.920
Sean Baker thought he was saying something by

01:15:38.920 --> 01:15:42.159
doing that, but, like, he isn't. Or maybe it's

01:15:42.159 --> 01:15:47.020
just there for texture. Yeah. Like, I don't know.

01:15:47.060 --> 01:15:49.579
But the thing is, like, it's just I understand

01:15:49.579 --> 01:15:53.039
how like a liberal could take this as like, oh,

01:15:53.119 --> 01:15:54.760
well, these are these trashy people and they,

01:15:54.880 --> 01:15:57.500
you know, live in this way. And so they're dumb

01:15:57.500 --> 01:15:59.659
about politics and vote against their interests

01:15:59.659 --> 01:16:02.420
and whatever. And that's, you know, these are

01:16:02.420 --> 01:16:04.319
the people that have caused this new political

01:16:04.319 --> 01:16:06.880
shift. And they're all kind of these dumb people.

01:16:06.939 --> 01:16:12.050
Like, I don't know. But the movie really. seems

01:16:12.050 --> 01:16:14.829
separate from that like it seems like it's like

01:16:14.829 --> 01:16:17.050
well he wanted to do that in the meta thing and

01:16:17.050 --> 01:16:19.350
then he started talking about this guy and this

01:16:19.350 --> 01:16:22.470
family and this girlfriend and whatever and it

01:16:22.470 --> 01:16:24.489
becomes about that like and that's something

01:16:24.489 --> 01:16:26.489
that's kind of similar to me with the Florida

01:16:26.489 --> 01:16:28.390
Project and stuff where like the Florida Project

01:16:28.390 --> 01:16:31.989
seems to be this like and you can look at the

01:16:31.989 --> 01:16:33.989
Florida Project and think about all of its connections

01:16:33.989 --> 01:16:36.149
to Disney and capitalism and America and all

01:16:36.149 --> 01:16:38.630
this stuff and like and it works but I feel like

01:16:38.630 --> 01:16:41.460
when you're watching the florida project it's

01:16:41.460 --> 01:16:43.939
really about watching what's her name the girl

01:16:43.939 --> 01:16:46.279
and like her friends playing and stuff like the

01:16:46.279 --> 01:16:49.020
the what the movie focuses on is not like always

01:16:49.020 --> 01:16:51.300
trying to make a point in every scene or whatever

01:16:51.300 --> 01:16:54.840
it's kind of like a much more human almost um

01:16:54.840 --> 01:16:59.819
um documentary sort of sort of aesthetic that

01:16:59.819 --> 01:17:02.619
i think really works and gets gets you really

01:17:02.619 --> 01:17:05.079
into this world or whatever but it also doesn't

01:17:05.079 --> 01:17:07.420
feel like it's just an allegory or works as well

01:17:07.420 --> 01:17:10.819
as an allegory um in the end it's kind of more

01:17:10.819 --> 01:17:13.899
of a experience or whatever and then you can

01:17:13.899 --> 01:17:15.279
take a step back from the experience and think

01:17:15.279 --> 01:17:17.859
about oh well this is you know in the Florida

01:17:17.859 --> 01:17:19.939
project this is the slums that exist right next

01:17:19.939 --> 01:17:23.460
to Disneyland you know and it's the idea of like

01:17:23.460 --> 01:17:25.460
the success of capitalism versus the reality

01:17:25.460 --> 01:17:27.340
of the success of capitalism and you can think

01:17:27.340 --> 01:17:29.619
about it in this meta thing but what does that

01:17:29.619 --> 01:17:31.680
have to do with the scene where Lonnie's spitting

01:17:31.680 --> 01:17:34.600
on the car like is that her name not Lonnie fucking

01:17:34.600 --> 01:17:36.659
I don't know where the little girl's spitting

01:17:36.659 --> 01:17:39.880
on the car um not really anything that's kind

01:17:39.880 --> 01:17:42.550
of a you know And I think similarly in Red Rocket,

01:17:42.670 --> 01:17:43.729
like there are a lot of these scenes that are

01:17:43.729 --> 01:17:46.890
like really great in the context of the story

01:17:46.890 --> 01:17:50.189
and stuff, but not necessarily a metaphor. But

01:17:50.189 --> 01:17:54.149
the meta thing I do think is set up as this sort

01:17:54.149 --> 01:17:56.649
of discussion of Trump's and Eric. I think that's

01:17:56.649 --> 01:17:59.829
why Lonnie is a character in the movie. Well,

01:17:59.869 --> 01:18:03.970
even Mikey himself, his connection to the porn

01:18:03.970 --> 01:18:07.550
industry and his lust for the 17 year old girl

01:18:07.550 --> 01:18:11.560
and is sort of like. dream and desire to have

01:18:11.560 --> 01:18:15.819
like power and agency over his life and to have

01:18:15.819 --> 01:18:18.779
his like to have his bitch by his side that he

01:18:18.779 --> 01:18:21.279
sort of like controls her life and whatever like

01:18:21.279 --> 01:18:24.560
there's there's something there's something about

01:18:24.560 --> 01:18:28.439
the trump ethos that like fits really nicely

01:18:28.439 --> 01:18:32.789
into his character as well um I mean, I feel

01:18:32.789 --> 01:18:35.229
like, like you said, like people, liberals might

01:18:35.229 --> 01:18:38.090
see Mikey as like a portrayal of everything that's

01:18:38.090 --> 01:18:40.649
wrong with masculinity and everything that's

01:18:40.649 --> 01:18:43.409
wrong about a person like Trump or whatever.

01:18:43.909 --> 01:18:48.329
But the movie doesn't necessarily make him a

01:18:48.329 --> 01:18:53.229
villain and also casts all the characters around

01:18:53.229 --> 01:18:56.770
him in a similar kind of light. So you're not

01:18:56.770 --> 01:18:58.890
really dealing with a narrative where like you

01:18:58.890 --> 01:19:02.020
have this bad man. taking advantage of all these

01:19:02.020 --> 01:19:07.439
good women or something. And I think the movie

01:19:07.439 --> 01:19:11.560
is more so doing a thing where we are now living

01:19:11.560 --> 01:19:15.579
in a time when this man feels like he has no

01:19:15.579 --> 01:19:17.760
masculinity, feels like he has no power, feels

01:19:17.760 --> 01:19:23.060
like he has to sort of grovel to these women

01:19:23.060 --> 01:19:25.020
so he can have a place to stay and somewhere

01:19:25.020 --> 01:19:28.760
to work and all this stuff. He's in a bit of

01:19:28.760 --> 01:19:32.579
a longhouse. Yeah, he's kind of shitty and he

01:19:32.579 --> 01:19:36.420
doesn't always treat them very well verbally

01:19:36.420 --> 01:19:41.039
and stuff like that. And he is just playing the

01:19:41.039 --> 01:19:42.560
game. He's trying to get what he wants. He's

01:19:42.560 --> 01:19:45.640
trying to get whatever he can out of the situation

01:19:45.640 --> 01:19:49.220
and then leave them behind when there's something

01:19:49.220 --> 01:19:51.939
he can make for himself on the horizon. Right.

01:19:52.569 --> 01:19:55.909
It's ultimate selfishness. But, like, all they

01:19:55.909 --> 01:19:58.390
want out of him is money, too. And all they want

01:19:58.390 --> 01:20:01.670
out of him, like, Lexi just wants, she wants

01:20:01.670 --> 01:20:05.090
a daddy. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah. Lexi has,

01:20:05.350 --> 01:20:07.289
like. If he brings the money, everything's good.

01:20:07.810 --> 01:20:09.829
Mm -hmm. Yeah, if he brings the money, everything's

01:20:09.829 --> 01:20:11.810
good. But, like, as it goes on and they start

01:20:11.810 --> 01:20:16.569
sleeping together again, you know, they're still

01:20:16.569 --> 01:20:18.210
married. They never got divorced. But I guess

01:20:18.210 --> 01:20:20.689
he's been gone for, like, 15 years or some shit,

01:20:20.710 --> 01:20:23.159
like 17 years. Right. And just, like, showing

01:20:23.159 --> 01:20:25.960
up again. But, like, once he's staying there

01:20:25.960 --> 01:20:27.000
and he's making the money and they're having

01:20:27.000 --> 01:20:29.640
sex again, she actually tries to entertain the

01:20:29.640 --> 01:20:31.899
idea that he would become the father of her child

01:20:31.899 --> 01:20:33.960
because I guess she has a kid that she's not

01:20:33.960 --> 01:20:36.699
allowed to see. Right, right. Probably because

01:20:36.699 --> 01:20:39.340
she's a drug addict and a prostitute and whoever

01:20:39.340 --> 01:20:43.840
she had the kid with got custody. And maybe she

01:20:43.840 --> 01:20:45.079
thinks that if Mikey... No, or didn't get custody.

01:20:45.279 --> 01:20:47.659
No, no, no. The guy, because he says, where's

01:20:47.659 --> 01:20:50.140
the dad in all this? Why doesn't he step up?

01:20:50.439 --> 01:20:52.840
So the dad doesn't have custody either. He's

01:20:52.840 --> 01:20:56.539
in an orphanage. He has foster care or whatever.

01:20:56.699 --> 01:20:59.479
So the kid got taken away. It's not Mikey's kid,

01:20:59.579 --> 01:21:02.279
but she thinks, yeah, she's trying to sort of

01:21:02.279 --> 01:21:06.220
ensnare him in this scenario where he'd be daddy

01:21:06.220 --> 01:21:08.939
and he would pay the bills and they could show

01:21:08.939 --> 01:21:13.560
a court that they had a proper family unit and

01:21:13.560 --> 01:21:15.500
maybe she'd get the kid back and whatever. So

01:21:15.500 --> 01:21:19.210
for her, it's also just like this. using him

01:21:19.210 --> 01:21:22.069
in, like, as a pawn to get something else she

01:21:22.069 --> 01:21:25.449
wants, which is her kid. And, like, he's using

01:21:25.449 --> 01:21:27.510
all them as a way to just get, like, his kid

01:21:27.510 --> 01:21:29.710
that he fucks and takes back to Hollywood to

01:21:29.710 --> 01:21:32.850
make a ton of money with. Right, right. But he

01:21:32.850 --> 01:21:35.510
doesn't, though, right? And so, like, I mean,

01:21:35.510 --> 01:21:38.569
that's ambiguous, but I doubt he does. And also,

01:21:38.649 --> 01:21:41.810
I don't know that that look he gives at the end

01:21:41.810 --> 01:21:44.329
is, you know what I mean? Like, that's one of,

01:21:44.369 --> 01:21:47.039
like... what the fuck have I done? Yeah, yeah,

01:21:47.039 --> 01:21:49.039
yeah. But is that a what the fuck have I done?

01:21:49.140 --> 01:21:51.100
I've finally gotten what I want? Because I don't

01:21:51.100 --> 01:21:53.119
even, I don't feel like that's as powerful as,

01:21:53.180 --> 01:21:56.039
I don't know. Like there's, you know, the idea

01:21:56.039 --> 01:21:57.720
of the end of the Florida Project is just this

01:21:57.720 --> 01:21:59.680
fantasy scene. It's shot differently than everything

01:21:59.680 --> 01:22:01.560
else in the movie and it's got music where nothing

01:22:01.560 --> 01:22:03.180
else in the movie has music or whatever. So you

01:22:03.180 --> 01:22:04.979
know that it's not real. They couldn't get into

01:22:04.979 --> 01:22:07.119
fucking Disneyland without tickets. Like there's,

01:22:07.119 --> 01:22:09.989
you know what I mean? And similarly, like, the

01:22:09.989 --> 01:22:11.449
end of this movie where she comes out and the

01:22:11.449 --> 01:22:13.890
music's playing backwards and shit and it's all

01:22:13.890 --> 01:22:15.750
tripped out and she just looks like a porn star

01:22:15.750 --> 01:22:17.890
and, like, it doesn't look like a real house

01:22:17.890 --> 01:22:19.369
or anything. Like, it just looks like this crazy

01:22:19.369 --> 01:22:22.289
porn set thing. Like, not even a porn set, just

01:22:22.289 --> 01:22:25.470
like a crazy, I don't know, dollhouse set or

01:22:25.470 --> 01:22:29.010
something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, it feels to

01:22:29.010 --> 01:22:32.670
me so, like, obviously this isn't how this goes.

01:22:32.909 --> 01:22:35.510
Like, yeah, she's willing to stand by it. No,

01:22:35.510 --> 01:22:36.350
of course not. I mean, he also doesn't have the

01:22:36.350 --> 01:22:38.560
money, man. He doesn't have money anymore. He

01:22:38.560 --> 01:22:43.140
doesn't really have a way to make $200. Yeah,

01:22:43.659 --> 01:22:44.939
he's got a couple hundred bucks. It doesn't matter.

01:22:45.359 --> 01:22:48.060
He had a few grand and they took it from him

01:22:48.060 --> 01:22:50.460
and then Leandria... But they didn't even take

01:22:50.460 --> 01:22:52.819
it from him, right? That was money that he owed

01:22:52.819 --> 01:22:54.960
them and he was like, just give it back. I was

01:22:54.960 --> 01:22:56.880
going to leave tomorrow. And they're like, no.

01:22:58.199 --> 01:22:59.739
You were going to leave with our money tomorrow?

01:22:59.880 --> 01:23:03.979
No, fuck you. I don't understand what the deal

01:23:03.979 --> 01:23:07.140
was. Why does he have thousands of dollars and

01:23:07.140 --> 01:23:08.560
then he's like, I was going to leave tomorrow.

01:23:09.180 --> 01:23:11.539
They weren't just robbing him, were they? I think

01:23:11.539 --> 01:23:14.000
that's $3 ,000 that he actually earned because

01:23:14.000 --> 01:23:18.779
he has to be making a cut. off like like otherwise

01:23:18.779 --> 01:23:20.399
he wouldn't be working for them like he has to

01:23:20.399 --> 01:23:23.300
be making money doing that and and like imagining

01:23:23.300 --> 01:23:25.920
that he would amass like three thousand dollars

01:23:25.920 --> 01:23:27.500
over the course of like two months or something

01:23:27.500 --> 01:23:30.399
is reasonable selling drugs i guess because he

01:23:30.399 --> 01:23:33.439
is also paying all of their rent and stuff no

01:23:33.439 --> 01:23:35.319
sure but he but it seems to me like maybe he

01:23:35.319 --> 01:23:38.600
could amass a thousand dollars or like 500 whatever

01:23:38.600 --> 01:23:41.479
they leave him with and instead like get a couple

01:23:41.479 --> 01:23:43.699
thousand dollars worth of credit and stuff and

01:23:43.699 --> 01:23:45.479
then he's i don't know whatever you can make

01:23:45.479 --> 01:23:47.579
a shitload of money on drugs yeah yeah it's true

01:23:47.579 --> 01:23:50.159
it's true that's you can make a shitload of money

01:23:50.159 --> 01:23:52.840
in a very short i mean it's weed and it's i guess

01:23:52.840 --> 01:23:55.779
2016 i guess 2016 you could still make money

01:23:55.779 --> 01:24:00.319
on weed yeah yeah i guess certain areas like

01:24:00.319 --> 01:24:02.659
especially texas texas golf that's not an area

01:24:02.659 --> 01:24:05.880
that's legalizing weed right right right i think

01:24:05.880 --> 01:24:07.340
what's the other thing that was interesting speaking

01:24:07.340 --> 01:24:10.569
of texas is you notice um when they're out fishing,

01:24:10.750 --> 01:24:12.489
Lonnie tells them, oh, those are the Texas killing

01:24:12.489 --> 01:24:14.189
fields. You know what the Texas killing fields

01:24:14.189 --> 01:24:18.250
are? Uh, no. It's apparently like a small, like,

01:24:18.270 --> 01:24:22.729
like area of Texas, um, where like dozens and

01:24:22.729 --> 01:24:26.170
dozens of bodies have been found. Um, all of

01:24:26.170 --> 01:24:30.590
like women, women aged like 14 to 25 or something.

01:24:31.289 --> 01:24:35.010
Um, yeah, that's, and I think they like never

01:24:35.010 --> 01:24:37.289
caught the guy or the many guys or something

01:24:37.289 --> 01:24:39.340
like, you know what I mean? But there's, There's

01:24:39.340 --> 01:24:41.880
something in there about that that's kind of

01:24:41.880 --> 01:24:45.420
thrown in there. But again, a lot of these things

01:24:45.420 --> 01:24:47.439
that feel like they could be written in in the

01:24:47.439 --> 01:24:50.159
pre -production stage to be making some sort

01:24:50.159 --> 01:24:54.779
of point about toxic masculinity and Trump and

01:24:54.779 --> 01:24:57.600
stuff, they don't feel like that's how it plays

01:24:57.600 --> 01:24:59.600
out in the movie. So it doesn't kind of connect

01:24:59.600 --> 01:25:01.300
with everything. Because I agree. I think that

01:25:01.300 --> 01:25:03.840
all the women in this movie are using him. And

01:25:03.840 --> 01:25:07.100
I think that he really doesn't have any real

01:25:07.100 --> 01:25:12.340
power. He's also, I think, similarly to Warren

01:25:12.340 --> 01:25:15.180
Beatty's character in Shampoo, he's playing a

01:25:15.180 --> 01:25:19.720
traditionally feminine role where he's just,

01:25:19.779 --> 01:25:22.619
like, the pretty guy. You know what I mean? And,

01:25:22.699 --> 01:25:24.880
like, he goes to this girl's house or whatever,

01:25:24.979 --> 01:25:27.859
he promises his stuff, and, like, it's, like,

01:25:27.899 --> 01:25:29.539
largely it's that she just wants to fuck him,

01:25:29.600 --> 01:25:31.859
like, too. Like, you know what I mean? It's largely

01:25:31.859 --> 01:25:34.920
just the sexual dynamics and stuff. And same

01:25:34.920 --> 01:25:39.939
with, like... strawberry where I think that in

01:25:39.939 --> 01:25:41.739
the end I think if you think in the end strawberries

01:25:41.739 --> 01:25:46.359
going with him like I just don't buy that I feel

01:25:46.359 --> 01:25:49.739
like strawberry is like not like when she says

01:25:49.739 --> 01:25:52.319
like I'm gonna have a fucked up summer I'm not

01:25:52.319 --> 01:25:53.819
trying to have a fucked up life and stuff it's

01:25:53.819 --> 01:25:57.460
like that seems like a pretty you know resolved

01:25:58.920 --> 01:26:01.439
I'm not going with you, dude. This is fun, but

01:26:01.439 --> 01:26:03.439
you're a loser. I'm never going to introduce

01:26:03.439 --> 01:26:05.960
you to my parents. I'm never going to run away

01:26:05.960 --> 01:26:07.560
with you to California. But then I guess when

01:26:07.560 --> 01:26:09.420
she's swept up in the moment, she quits her job.

01:26:09.720 --> 01:26:13.159
I think that his big mistake as a toxic man is

01:26:13.159 --> 01:26:17.899
that he lets her go home. If he was going to

01:26:17.899 --> 01:26:19.579
leave, he should have left right then when she

01:26:19.579 --> 01:26:21.920
was still on board because no way you're going

01:26:21.920 --> 01:26:25.079
to give her 24 hours of going back to her house

01:26:25.079 --> 01:26:27.899
and staying with her mom and whatever and then

01:26:27.899 --> 01:26:31.500
deciding, no, I'm going to go out tomorrow. No

01:26:31.500 --> 01:26:35.600
way. There's no way. not actually interested

01:26:35.600 --> 01:26:38.260
in making that mistake and he actually is and

01:26:38.260 --> 01:26:39.500
that's kind of like the thing that i think is

01:26:39.500 --> 01:26:41.340
interesting about their kind of sexual dynamics

01:26:41.340 --> 01:26:45.140
is like he really needs her like this is what

01:26:45.140 --> 01:26:49.039
he's like pinning his whole future on and stuff

01:26:49.039 --> 01:26:50.859
is like this idea that this girl is going to

01:26:50.859 --> 01:26:53.079
be faithful to him not faithful sexually or whatever

01:26:53.079 --> 01:26:57.159
but like faithful to this to his pimping or whatever

01:26:57.159 --> 01:27:00.180
um yeah he wants her to be his bottom bitch or

01:27:00.180 --> 01:27:02.720
whatever you know what i mean but suitcase pimp

01:27:03.579 --> 01:27:08.220
Yeah, suitcase pimp. But she has so much more

01:27:08.220 --> 01:27:11.399
power than him. And she could just decide, oh,

01:27:11.460 --> 01:27:13.939
no, never mind. And then he's completely lost.

01:27:14.359 --> 01:27:16.680
Whereas, like, if he decides never mind, she's

01:27:16.680 --> 01:27:19.060
not, I mean, she's not willing to give him the

01:27:19.060 --> 01:27:21.420
video on his phone, right? When he's like, let's

01:27:21.420 --> 01:27:23.420
film us having sex. She's like, well, how about

01:27:23.420 --> 01:27:25.140
we do it on my phone? He's like, what, you don't

01:27:25.140 --> 01:27:26.439
trust me? He's like, yeah, dude, she doesn't

01:27:26.439 --> 01:27:30.420
trust you. Obviously. She knows that what you're

01:27:30.420 --> 01:27:31.739
going to do is you're going to release that so

01:27:31.739 --> 01:27:34.720
that then she already has porn out there. So

01:27:34.720 --> 01:27:37.100
then why not? Because the consequences have already

01:27:37.100 --> 01:27:39.479
happened. Everybody in your hometown has already

01:27:39.479 --> 01:27:42.359
seen you fuck. So why not go with me to California

01:27:42.359 --> 01:27:47.079
and do more of that? Sure, yeah. But instead

01:27:47.079 --> 01:27:49.560
she's like, no, no, no. I'm not going to give

01:27:49.560 --> 01:27:51.140
in here. And I'm not going to give in here. I'm

01:27:51.140 --> 01:27:52.819
going to keep having fun and fuck just like I

01:27:52.819 --> 01:27:54.899
did with that other guy. It's nothing serious.

01:27:55.119 --> 01:27:59.569
It's just I fuck him sometimes. And she doesn't

01:27:59.569 --> 01:28:02.689
seem to be being warped by this relationship.

01:28:03.550 --> 01:28:06.090
She seems to be somewhat steadfast in this and

01:28:06.090 --> 01:28:09.550
stuff. Now, the movie in the end, sort of, when

01:28:09.550 --> 01:28:12.430
she quits the job, that already seems like manic

01:28:12.430 --> 01:28:16.170
and almost a dream sequence. But I buy that that's

01:28:16.170 --> 01:28:17.810
happening. I don't buy that the end could happen

01:28:17.810 --> 01:28:20.449
in this documentary reality that they've set

01:28:20.449 --> 01:28:23.350
up. And I don't know what that actually says

01:28:23.350 --> 01:28:27.899
about Trump. I think it just ends up being a

01:28:27.899 --> 01:28:30.140
more interesting kind of nuanced conversation

01:28:30.140 --> 01:28:34.920
about male -female dynamics and stuff that maybe

01:28:34.920 --> 01:28:36.880
resonate with Trump. I think it says about as

01:28:36.880 --> 01:28:40.060
much about Trump as Shampoo says about Nixon,

01:28:40.199 --> 01:28:43.979
man. I think in the end, Lester doesn't represent

01:28:43.979 --> 01:28:46.479
Nixon just like Mikey doesn't represent Trump.

01:28:46.680 --> 01:28:50.239
Right, right. He represents a certain archetype.

01:28:50.239 --> 01:28:52.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, because everything

01:28:52.720 --> 01:28:55.300
Lester and George are doing has nothing to do

01:28:55.300 --> 01:28:57.819
with Nixon or, like, the politics of the left

01:28:57.819 --> 01:29:01.119
or the right, you know? Right. Like we said,

01:29:01.260 --> 01:29:03.460
for George, it's just about getting fucking pussy,

01:29:03.619 --> 01:29:06.239
man. Right. And for Lester, it's about making

01:29:06.239 --> 01:29:09.199
money and making changes. And like you said,

01:29:09.260 --> 01:29:12.579
he's above the politics. Like, he can make shit

01:29:12.579 --> 01:29:15.640
happen regardless of who the president is. Right.

01:29:16.159 --> 01:29:17.720
And it almost doesn't matter because they're

01:29:17.720 --> 01:29:19.699
both going to support capitalism and whatever.

01:29:19.979 --> 01:29:23.579
Right. And so, like, yeah, I don't think, like,

01:29:23.659 --> 01:29:27.220
I think the presence of Nixon in Shampoo is similar

01:29:27.220 --> 01:29:30.359
to the presence of Trump in Red Rocket, where

01:29:30.359 --> 01:29:32.579
it really is just, like, an environmental touch

01:29:32.579 --> 01:29:35.500
that speaks more to the environment these characters

01:29:35.500 --> 01:29:38.140
exist in, but that their personal lives have

01:29:38.140 --> 01:29:41.039
very little to do with that environment directly,

01:29:41.300 --> 01:29:43.079
even though it all has to do with it indirectly.

01:29:43.600 --> 01:29:45.880
Right, right. It's all kind of metaphorically

01:29:45.880 --> 01:29:49.159
about similar things that resonate. I mean, watching

01:29:49.159 --> 01:29:52.880
Red Rocket could be like, so this is why people

01:29:52.880 --> 01:29:54.260
vote for Trump, right? Because there's people

01:29:54.260 --> 01:29:59.060
like this, you know? Like, when you look at this

01:29:59.060 --> 01:30:02.020
disgusting, like, oil field environment that

01:30:02.020 --> 01:30:04.380
these people live in, it's almost like... It

01:30:04.380 --> 01:30:06.979
reminded me so much of Red Desert, dude. The,

01:30:07.000 --> 01:30:09.159
like, the flame at the top of the... It represents

01:30:09.159 --> 01:30:12.760
all the, like, dehumanization of capitalism and

01:30:12.760 --> 01:30:15.699
just, like, all the disgusting, like, byproduct

01:30:15.699 --> 01:30:18.289
of it and whatever. You're dealing with all these

01:30:18.289 --> 01:30:22.229
white trash people, especially the white trash

01:30:22.229 --> 01:30:23.810
man. That's another thing I feel like Sean Baker

01:30:23.810 --> 01:30:26.869
has been doing. And I didn't see Tangerine, so

01:30:26.869 --> 01:30:28.770
I don't know how much that one applies. Or the

01:30:28.770 --> 01:30:31.829
new one that just won the jury prize at Cannes.

01:30:32.390 --> 01:30:34.810
What about it? You haven't seen that one either.

01:30:35.710 --> 01:30:37.710
No, I haven't seen that one. I think all of these

01:30:37.710 --> 01:30:40.949
have been about sex workers, though. The Florida

01:30:40.949 --> 01:30:42.890
Project slightly more indirectly. The Florida

01:30:42.890 --> 01:30:45.760
Project had, yeah. Well, here's the other thing

01:30:45.760 --> 01:30:47.880
I wanted to bring up about Shampoo, too. Do you

01:30:47.880 --> 01:30:50.840
think that Jackie was a sex worker? That was

01:30:50.840 --> 01:30:55.479
implied, right? I mean... Like, because he says

01:30:55.479 --> 01:30:58.060
to her, like, I don't have sex with people for

01:30:58.060 --> 01:31:00.119
money. I do it for fun. And then she's, like,

01:31:00.119 --> 01:31:03.239
offended by that. Yeah, but that's... He is saying

01:31:03.239 --> 01:31:06.699
she's a sex worker because she is dating Lester.

01:31:07.460 --> 01:31:09.359
Like, he's saying, like, you're fucking Lester

01:31:09.359 --> 01:31:11.640
for money. I don't fuck people for money. I fuck

01:31:11.640 --> 01:31:15.130
them for fun. I don't think it's implying that

01:31:15.130 --> 01:31:18.250
she is a street -walking prostitute. I think

01:31:18.250 --> 01:31:20.689
he's just like, you're a whore and you're different

01:31:20.689 --> 01:31:23.350
from me because I'm not doing it for power. I'm

01:31:23.350 --> 01:31:26.090
doing it for fun or something because I'm such

01:31:26.090 --> 01:31:28.449
a free -spirited liberal or whatever. It's like,

01:31:28.470 --> 01:31:29.909
no, dude, you're doing it for power, too. You're

01:31:29.909 --> 01:31:34.609
just bad at it. But I guess what you were saying

01:31:34.609 --> 01:31:37.850
is that they're all saying that all the Sean

01:31:37.850 --> 01:31:41.170
Baker movies are about prostitutes. That is expanding

01:31:41.170 --> 01:31:44.310
the definition of prostitute beyond being a literal

01:31:44.310 --> 01:31:48.010
cash -in -hand sex worker. No, I think specifically,

01:31:48.489 --> 01:31:51.170
Sean Baker, all of these have been literal cash

01:31:51.170 --> 01:31:52.689
-in -hand sex workers. I think Tangerine is a

01:31:52.689 --> 01:31:54.470
sex worker. I haven't seen that one either. Well,

01:31:54.489 --> 01:31:56.649
no, but I'm just saying, isn't Mikey a sex worker?

01:31:57.189 --> 01:31:59.390
Isn't he basically having sex to keep the roof

01:31:59.390 --> 01:32:02.329
over his head? Yeah, but porn actors are sex

01:32:02.329 --> 01:32:06.729
workers. It's part of that. No, I know he's literally

01:32:06.729 --> 01:32:10.390
a sex worker, too, because he's in porn. I got

01:32:10.390 --> 01:32:13.489
you. I'm just saying expand the definition and

01:32:13.489 --> 01:32:16.909
how that, like, applies to George and how that

01:32:16.909 --> 01:32:20.010
applies to Jackie and applies to all these people

01:32:20.010 --> 01:32:24.289
who are using sex to try and get power or, like,

01:32:24.350 --> 01:32:27.430
using it as a currency or whatever it is. Exactly.

01:32:27.550 --> 01:32:30.609
Exactly. I mean, George is not successfully using

01:32:30.609 --> 01:32:32.909
sex as a currency. He's, like, just cashing out

01:32:32.909 --> 01:32:35.729
all the time. Right. You know, he doesn't know

01:32:35.729 --> 01:32:37.590
how to leverage sexual attention to get something

01:32:37.590 --> 01:32:39.590
he wants because he just blows the load immediately.

01:32:39.970 --> 01:32:42.949
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas like Mikey has more

01:32:42.949 --> 01:32:46.210
understanding of how to like utilize like his

01:32:46.210 --> 01:32:48.770
sexual prowess to get things he wants. Right,

01:32:48.810 --> 01:32:50.869
right. Which is a very feminine role. Like you

01:32:50.869 --> 01:32:53.989
said, he's kind of like using sex and his like

01:32:53.989 --> 01:32:58.369
sex appeal and his confidence in himself and

01:32:58.369 --> 01:33:02.149
all of that. to sort of maneuver through all

01:33:02.149 --> 01:33:03.850
of it and get what he wants, even though he actually

01:33:03.850 --> 01:33:06.949
has no raw power in any of these situations.

01:33:07.189 --> 01:33:10.250
The only raw power he has is that humongous penis.

01:33:11.029 --> 01:33:13.729
Exactly, yeah. Which, in the end, when we see

01:33:13.729 --> 01:33:16.529
it, it's clownish. I mean, it's a repeat of the

01:33:16.529 --> 01:33:19.489
Boogie Nights thing, you know, but seeing the

01:33:19.489 --> 01:33:23.489
actual penis is, like, so funny. You know what

01:33:23.489 --> 01:33:26.670
I mean? It's like, oh, that's freakish and weird.

01:33:26.729 --> 01:33:29.670
That's hilarious. Like, it's, I don't know. It

01:33:29.670 --> 01:33:33.069
doesn't feel like it's very it's like disempowering

01:33:33.069 --> 01:33:35.890
to see dude running with his giant swinging penis

01:33:35.890 --> 01:33:38.069
as opposed to being like, oh, OK. He's got such

01:33:38.069 --> 01:33:40.550
a cool. I get it. It's like, no, no, no. It's

01:33:40.550 --> 01:33:43.270
he's a fucking clown. That's why all of this

01:33:43.270 --> 01:33:44.750
has been like this is he's just this walking.

01:33:45.539 --> 01:33:48.079
giant penis and it's almost similar to warren

01:33:48.079 --> 01:33:50.260
baity finally breaking down and shampoo and being

01:33:50.260 --> 01:33:51.699
like i fucked all of them i vote out what do

01:33:51.699 --> 01:33:53.079
you want from me or whatever it's like him running

01:33:53.079 --> 01:33:55.520
with a giant penis is the same thing it's like

01:33:55.520 --> 01:33:58.520
oh okay i get it now you're just uh that's all

01:33:58.520 --> 01:34:00.579
you want like you don't have any brain cells

01:34:00.579 --> 01:34:04.119
you just have a giant penis um and that's been

01:34:04.119 --> 01:34:06.640
running all this all along but his giant penis

01:34:06.640 --> 01:34:10.399
is kind of like you know a giant rack like you

01:34:10.399 --> 01:34:12.420
know what I mean it's like just the bombshell

01:34:12.420 --> 01:34:14.579
walking into some trailer home and whatever and

01:34:14.579 --> 01:34:17.000
being able to get you know whatever she wants

01:34:17.000 --> 01:34:19.359
because she's super like he just walks into the

01:34:19.359 --> 01:34:22.340
trailer home with a giant penis it's it's a feminine

01:34:22.340 --> 01:34:27.560
role traditionally for sure yeah but that connects

01:34:27.560 --> 01:34:29.439
to shampoo and him being in a feminine role as

01:34:29.439 --> 01:34:33.100
well and working in this political side of things

01:34:33.100 --> 01:34:39.010
where it's it's about deception and Social interaction

01:34:39.010 --> 01:34:42.470
stuff and whatever, as opposed to the, you know,

01:34:42.489 --> 01:34:48.270
real power. All of the power that Mikey has in

01:34:48.270 --> 01:34:51.390
this movie is just like goodwill of other people

01:34:51.390 --> 01:34:53.029
that he's tricking into giving him goodwill.

01:34:54.109 --> 01:34:56.329
And he doesn't even really trick them, I think,

01:34:56.329 --> 01:34:58.289
is kind of the point in the end, unless you think

01:34:58.289 --> 01:35:01.750
Strawberry goes with him. But I don't think that's

01:35:01.750 --> 01:35:03.750
possible. No, he's not. He's not fooling anybody

01:35:03.750 --> 01:35:06.649
in the end. Exactly. Um, just like, you know,

01:35:06.689 --> 01:35:08.550
George isn't fooling anybody in the end of shampoo.

01:35:08.729 --> 01:35:10.449
Yeah. It's just like, they all know he's not

01:35:10.449 --> 01:35:13.029
serious. Yeah. The only person who thinks, uh,

01:35:13.050 --> 01:35:15.430
Marky Mark at the end of boogie nights. Yeah.

01:35:16.569 --> 01:35:18.130
Like Marky Mark at the end of boogie nights.

01:35:18.229 --> 01:35:20.430
I mean, the only person that thinks, um, Mikey

01:35:20.430 --> 01:35:24.829
is serious as Lonnie, man. Yeah. Yeah. That's

01:35:24.829 --> 01:35:27.770
true. That's true. Which may tie into some sort

01:35:27.770 --> 01:35:30.250
of Trump dynamic. I don't know. But I think Lonnie's

01:35:30.250 --> 01:35:32.189
an interesting character. I think it's interesting

01:35:32.189 --> 01:35:34.930
to include him in this movie because he is sort

01:35:34.930 --> 01:35:39.630
of this, like, incel, modern, loser male archetype

01:35:39.630 --> 01:35:42.289
thing. And the idea that he wants so badly to

01:35:42.289 --> 01:35:44.970
be more masculine and cool and whatever, and

01:35:44.970 --> 01:35:48.050
that he, like, he, like, goes along with everything

01:35:48.050 --> 01:35:50.930
Mikey says, even though, like, he kind of seems

01:35:50.930 --> 01:35:53.470
to be skeeved out by it sometimes. Like, you

01:35:53.470 --> 01:35:55.890
know what I mean? Yeah. When Mikey's talking

01:35:55.890 --> 01:35:57.930
about Strawberry and stuff, he's like... He's

01:35:57.930 --> 01:35:59.710
like, oh, cool. Like, all right. He's like, this

01:35:59.710 --> 01:36:01.250
guy's cooler than me, but he seems intimidated,

01:36:01.270 --> 01:36:03.729
too. Like, he's just kind of like, oh. Yeah,

01:36:03.729 --> 01:36:05.909
yeah. It's like, I don't think he would do that.

01:36:06.029 --> 01:36:08.449
You know? Like, I think he's probably, like,

01:36:08.489 --> 01:36:11.430
a better guy. And, like, he could have slept

01:36:11.430 --> 01:36:13.670
with fucking Lexi properly plenty of times. Like,

01:36:13.670 --> 01:36:15.270
you know what I mean? Lexi's going out when,

01:36:15.329 --> 01:36:19.329
you know, when Mikey, like, stops giving him

01:36:19.329 --> 01:36:21.510
attention, she goes out and she's like, okay,

01:36:21.630 --> 01:36:24.029
I'm going to go get attention from this incel

01:36:24.029 --> 01:36:26.449
loser and whatever. And, like... that's yeah

01:36:26.449 --> 01:36:28.829
yeah if he wasn't that incel loser he probably

01:36:28.829 --> 01:36:30.329
could be like oh just come over and fuck and

01:36:30.329 --> 01:36:32.270
she probably would have but instead he's just

01:36:32.270 --> 01:36:35.750
like she gets her she gets off on him being so

01:36:35.750 --> 01:36:37.829
intimidated that he doesn't do anything and he

01:36:37.829 --> 01:36:40.369
gets off on just being a loot like i don't know

01:36:40.369 --> 01:36:43.329
there's something really pathetic about him yeah

01:36:43.329 --> 01:36:46.210
yeah and he he actually loved he does like they

01:36:46.210 --> 01:36:48.710
caused that giant traffic accident and he he

01:36:48.710 --> 01:36:51.069
takes the fall he doesn't throw mikey under the

01:36:51.069 --> 01:36:55.050
bus yeah yeah um Which is the craziest fucking

01:36:55.050 --> 01:36:59.210
scene in that movie. Like I, I, I like, yeah,

01:36:59.329 --> 01:37:02.130
I love that that happens. It's such a like, what

01:37:02.130 --> 01:37:05.350
the fuck in the middle of the movie? Um, kind

01:37:05.350 --> 01:37:07.529
of for no reason. Like it doesn't need to happen.

01:37:07.630 --> 01:37:09.449
Like what, why, why would you, why would you

01:37:09.449 --> 01:37:11.949
say that that's in that movie? Like what, what

01:37:11.949 --> 01:37:14.829
changes there? I guess. Well, I mean, it definitely,

01:37:14.909 --> 01:37:19.050
it shows that, you know, Mikey definitely has

01:37:19.050 --> 01:37:21.970
a concern about his like, consequences for his

01:37:21.970 --> 01:37:23.850
actions catching up with him and ruining his

01:37:23.850 --> 01:37:27.789
life and whatever um and just like how joyous

01:37:27.789 --> 01:37:31.270
he is when he learns that like Lonnie just completely

01:37:31.270 --> 01:37:33.449
took the fall like he does not care about Lonnie

01:37:33.449 --> 01:37:35.750
at all yeah yeah yeah and he never did there's

01:37:35.750 --> 01:37:37.670
something Trump there's something Trumpian about

01:37:37.670 --> 01:37:42.060
it too of just kind of like you go around causing

01:37:42.060 --> 01:37:44.300
all this destruction and mayhem but never held

01:37:44.300 --> 01:37:46.619
accountable for it right right right like build

01:37:46.619 --> 01:37:49.140
a bunch of failing hotels that collapse as soon

01:37:49.140 --> 01:37:53.159
as like yeah yeah yeah or like invest in real

01:37:53.159 --> 01:37:55.680
estate deals for things that don't work and then

01:37:55.680 --> 01:37:57.239
you collect insurance money and whatever and

01:37:57.239 --> 01:38:00.539
that's how you make your fortune yeah that i

01:38:00.539 --> 01:38:02.760
could i could see making that sort of connection

01:38:02.760 --> 01:38:05.979
but again like it's it doesn't it yeah it feels

01:38:05.979 --> 01:38:08.350
like a it feels like a stretch like But I feel

01:38:08.350 --> 01:38:09.750
like that's kind of the same with other Sean

01:38:09.750 --> 01:38:11.409
Baker stuff. Like at least with the Florida project,

01:38:11.470 --> 01:38:13.310
the only other one I've seen where it's like,

01:38:13.329 --> 01:38:16.350
I, there's so much to talk about in that movie,

01:38:16.409 --> 01:38:18.409
but like not that much of it's really in that

01:38:18.409 --> 01:38:21.689
movie. Like it's all kind of there as like a

01:38:21.689 --> 01:38:23.829
texture thing that allows you to talk about it

01:38:23.829 --> 01:38:26.390
and then be like, Oh, this is really all kind

01:38:26.390 --> 01:38:28.810
of on subject, but like none of the actual scenes

01:38:28.810 --> 01:38:31.670
are, or I don't know. But then when you think,

01:38:31.710 --> 01:38:33.569
I don't know. Well, you're right there. Like

01:38:33.569 --> 01:38:36.350
I, I think you're right that a lot of it's texture,

01:38:36.449 --> 01:38:38.529
but it's texture that somehow speaks and creates

01:38:38.529 --> 01:38:41.510
all these connections. But I don't think it's

01:38:41.510 --> 01:38:47.050
trying to explicitly say that. It's a slice -of

01:38:47.050 --> 01:38:49.689
-life movie that's an experience, like you said,

01:38:49.789 --> 01:38:53.890
that's kind of showing you this lifestyle and

01:38:53.890 --> 01:38:56.510
the people who exist in it. And part of that

01:38:56.510 --> 01:38:59.729
is trying to just be like, he has a thing about

01:38:59.729 --> 01:39:01.489
realism. He's trying to create a documentary

01:39:01.489 --> 01:39:04.300
-style realism thing. wants to acknowledge the

01:39:04.300 --> 01:39:07.140
existence of real things in the environment.

01:39:07.520 --> 01:39:12.800
But making a movie in 2021 and setting it in

01:39:12.800 --> 01:39:16.260
2016 is just as much of a choice as making a

01:39:16.260 --> 01:39:19.859
movie in 1975 and making it about 1968. Yeah,

01:39:19.880 --> 01:39:22.199
yeah, yeah, totally, totally. Both of these movies

01:39:22.199 --> 01:39:23.720
are retrospectively looking back. They're talking

01:39:23.720 --> 01:39:25.800
about the previous presidential election. Yeah,

01:39:25.819 --> 01:39:28.359
yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, talking about this pivotal

01:39:28.359 --> 01:39:34.430
transitional moment. telling a small story within

01:39:34.430 --> 01:39:36.689
the context of that bigger transitional moment.

01:39:38.409 --> 01:39:40.510
And like, and I don't know, like there's something

01:39:40.510 --> 01:39:42.350
really rhymes there and something really speaks

01:39:42.350 --> 01:39:45.029
there, but like putting it to words and yeah,

01:39:45.090 --> 01:39:47.550
saying how it specifically plays out in every

01:39:47.550 --> 01:39:50.689
scene, I think is difficult, more difficult to

01:39:50.689 --> 01:39:52.789
do with this one than shampoo. But even in shampoo,

01:39:52.909 --> 01:39:55.170
it's like, I think not every little scene in

01:39:55.170 --> 01:39:58.920
shampoo connects to. Yeah, you could compare

01:39:58.920 --> 01:40:01.479
the endings, for sure. Kind of like we blew at

01:40:01.479 --> 01:40:03.859
endings. Yeah, kind of, but here's the, like,

01:40:03.880 --> 01:40:05.899
I think that Shampoo, you can look at the ending

01:40:05.899 --> 01:40:10.100
and think about kind of how this is representative

01:40:10.100 --> 01:40:13.880
of Nixon, right? Like we talked about. Warren

01:40:13.880 --> 01:40:16.199
Beatty, the left, is losing because he promised

01:40:16.199 --> 01:40:18.159
all these things, these people who want to choose

01:40:18.159 --> 01:40:20.859
Nixon and that type of power over the type of

01:40:20.859 --> 01:40:25.539
power that Warren Beatty sort of embodies. But

01:40:25.539 --> 01:40:28.340
in this one, like in the end, like all of the

01:40:28.340 --> 01:40:33.319
women sort of went out and he's kind of left

01:40:33.319 --> 01:40:36.479
to his own. Like, you know what I mean? I mean,

01:40:36.500 --> 01:40:38.319
we're left with a fantasy sequence. We're left

01:40:38.319 --> 01:40:40.699
with a fantasy sequence. But like right after

01:40:40.699 --> 01:40:43.300
the scene where he loses everything and all of

01:40:43.300 --> 01:40:45.100
the women have been conspiring against him all

01:40:45.100 --> 01:40:49.420
along and shit. And like that, like. they weren't

01:40:49.420 --> 01:40:51.079
giving up their cards they were playing the social

01:40:51.079 --> 01:40:54.180
game far better than he was and using that sort

01:40:54.180 --> 01:40:56.439
of feminine power more powerfully than he was

01:40:56.439 --> 01:41:01.680
and collaborating behind the scenes in order

01:41:01.680 --> 01:41:05.279
to like have real power over him you know but

01:41:05.279 --> 01:41:06.640
like i don't know what that has to say about

01:41:06.640 --> 01:41:08.600
the trump election like you know what i mean

01:41:08.600 --> 01:41:10.380
it's like it's not like hillary won or something

01:41:10.380 --> 01:41:13.840
it's not like there's like i don't I see how

01:41:13.840 --> 01:41:16.020
it works in Shampoo, but in Red Rocket it kind

01:41:16.020 --> 01:41:17.979
of seems like, well, it ended up being the ending

01:41:17.979 --> 01:41:19.939
that this movie needed, but I don't really know

01:41:19.939 --> 01:41:24.039
why that connects to this texture. I think both

01:41:24.039 --> 01:41:26.899
are talking about the failure of the left and

01:41:26.899 --> 01:41:30.159
the move towards the right because of that. I

01:41:30.159 --> 01:41:33.520
think in a broad sense, I think that's what the

01:41:33.520 --> 01:41:36.439
backdrop is for each one. So you think that Mikey

01:41:36.439 --> 01:41:42.789
represents the same thing as Warren Beatty? No,

01:41:42.930 --> 01:41:46.069
I think, like I said, I don't think there is

01:41:46.069 --> 01:41:51.909
a Warren Beatty, I don't think there is a George

01:41:51.909 --> 01:41:55.590
Lester dynamic in Red Rocket, but I do think

01:41:55.590 --> 01:41:59.010
Red Rocket is painting the picture of a culture

01:41:59.010 --> 01:42:05.289
that has become less masculine. has been sort

01:42:05.289 --> 01:42:08.569
of like... And this comes more from leftism.

01:42:08.609 --> 01:42:10.810
This comes more from the left and the Obama years

01:42:10.810 --> 01:42:12.590
and all this stuff because we're talking about

01:42:12.590 --> 01:42:15.970
the end of that. We're talking about how Mikey

01:42:15.970 --> 01:42:20.390
is a man who's tried to make his way in the world

01:42:20.390 --> 01:42:22.729
by being a prostitute but has failed at even

01:42:22.729 --> 01:42:26.489
being that and has to go back home with his tail

01:42:26.489 --> 01:42:28.869
between his legs and then gets absolutely no

01:42:28.869 --> 01:42:32.149
respect from any of the women in his life and

01:42:32.149 --> 01:42:34.640
stuff. You're just... Like he's the man who will

01:42:34.640 --> 01:42:36.880
go vote for Trump because he wants to take the

01:42:36.880 --> 01:42:39.819
power back. You know, he's, it's like, I think

01:42:39.819 --> 01:42:43.640
so. And so is Lonnie. Yeah. And so is Lonnie.

01:42:43.640 --> 01:42:46.039
And you're, you're, you're portraying this move

01:42:46.039 --> 01:42:48.979
to the right. And it's not like, it's not like,

01:42:49.039 --> 01:42:53.909
um, in the end, like. It doesn't feel the same.

01:42:53.949 --> 01:42:55.189
Like, in the end of Shampoo, it's like, well,

01:42:55.329 --> 01:42:57.210
Lester wins, so that's Nixon winning, and that's

01:42:57.210 --> 01:42:59.310
the right winning and stuff like that. In Red

01:42:59.310 --> 01:43:02.010
Rock, it's just far more, like, ambiguous, and

01:43:02.010 --> 01:43:05.010
it's not necessarily saying, like, I mean, we

01:43:05.010 --> 01:43:08.390
know Trump wins. That's for one thing. Right.

01:43:08.590 --> 01:43:10.670
That is the win that's coming because of all

01:43:10.670 --> 01:43:12.210
this. So it's like, oh, so this is how the men

01:43:12.210 --> 01:43:15.310
are being treated. Look at this man's life, and

01:43:15.310 --> 01:43:17.170
who do you think he's going to vote for, you

01:43:17.170 --> 01:43:21.800
know? but like but there are more women though

01:43:21.800 --> 01:43:24.359
it's like and who are they voting for and and

01:43:24.359 --> 01:43:26.479
they're voting for trump too man i guess that's

01:43:26.479 --> 01:43:28.920
so what is the dynamic what are we yeah you know

01:43:28.920 --> 01:43:32.479
it's just yeah i guess we're just in the trump

01:43:32.479 --> 01:43:36.460
world and so it's all representative of that

01:43:36.460 --> 01:43:39.060
i mean you you could you could argue that you

01:43:39.060 --> 01:43:43.130
know the situation that these women in like a

01:43:43.130 --> 01:43:45.270
lot of that is because of the way the culture

01:43:45.270 --> 01:43:47.750
was previously in the Obama years and stuff like

01:43:47.750 --> 01:43:49.149
that. I don't know. I think it's interesting

01:43:49.149 --> 01:43:53.350
to have like a, like the most powerful character

01:43:53.350 --> 01:43:55.430
in the movie is probably a black woman, right?

01:43:55.569 --> 01:43:58.390
The, the drug dealer, she's kind of a master

01:43:58.390 --> 01:44:01.050
of her world and she's sort of a master of the

01:44:01.050 --> 01:44:03.989
community, you know, she's providing the drugs

01:44:03.989 --> 01:44:06.529
to the community. She's like, and you could,

01:44:06.529 --> 01:44:08.789
you could see, you see like a drug Lord as someone

01:44:08.789 --> 01:44:10.649
who's actually keeping the community down and

01:44:10.649 --> 01:44:13.109
like, Keeping them anesthetized. She's just a

01:44:13.109 --> 01:44:16.689
weed lord. Yeah, yeah, she's just a weed lord.

01:44:18.350 --> 01:44:20.850
She doesn't even want to sell weed to the hardhats,

01:44:20.850 --> 01:44:24.010
apparently, because for some reason. And her

01:44:24.010 --> 01:44:27.729
right -hand man is her daughter. And her son.

01:44:28.770 --> 01:44:31.970
It's a family operation. Yeah, but her son's

01:44:31.970 --> 01:44:33.930
totally shat on compared to her daughter. Her

01:44:33.930 --> 01:44:36.869
daughter gets no shit. I know. Her daughter runs

01:44:36.869 --> 01:44:38.890
that show and like talks down and then like the,

01:44:38.970 --> 01:44:40.989
her brothers too and whatever, even though they're

01:44:40.989 --> 01:44:42.630
like bigger than her and whatever, you know,

01:44:42.630 --> 01:44:46.149
it's like. Yeah. Yeah. They have no power. None

01:44:46.149 --> 01:44:48.170
of the men in this movie have any respect. That

01:44:48.170 --> 01:44:49.729
is absolutely a dynamic of this movie. Yeah.

01:44:49.810 --> 01:44:52.130
Yeah. It's just that that is how this movie is.

01:44:52.189 --> 01:44:54.890
We're talking about a world in which women have

01:44:54.890 --> 01:44:57.970
the power, but they're still the victims and

01:44:57.970 --> 01:45:01.449
the men don't see themselves as victims, but

01:45:01.449 --> 01:45:03.829
they have no power. And like, I don't know. It's.

01:45:04.250 --> 01:45:05.369
Well, that I think is what's interesting when

01:45:05.369 --> 01:45:07.430
we talk about Strawberry's character, man, is,

01:45:07.510 --> 01:45:09.869
like, there is, like, that relationship is...

01:45:09.869 --> 01:45:11.590
Yeah, well, then there's Strawberry. It's very

01:45:11.590 --> 01:45:14.350
easy to think of this relationship as, like,

01:45:14.390 --> 01:45:16.670
yeah, it's a grooming situation where he finds

01:45:16.670 --> 01:45:19.770
a young girl and he grooms her and, like, you

01:45:19.770 --> 01:45:22.369
know, turns her to porn and whatever. It's, like,

01:45:22.390 --> 01:45:25.890
through these various steps, he inches her along

01:45:25.890 --> 01:45:28.010
the way or whatever. Thing is, like, I don't

01:45:28.010 --> 01:45:30.109
think we see him inch her all the way. I think

01:45:30.109 --> 01:45:34.560
that by the end, there's really nothing... Other

01:45:34.560 --> 01:45:36.619
than her quitting her job to make you think that

01:45:36.619 --> 01:45:39.420
maybe this is going to happen. I think that it's

01:45:39.420 --> 01:45:41.779
pretty clear in all the other interactions that

01:45:41.779 --> 01:45:46.199
she's having a fun fucking senior year sex romp

01:45:46.199 --> 01:45:50.460
with an older guy, which is what any teenage

01:45:50.460 --> 01:45:53.899
girl probably wants. And she broke up with her

01:45:53.899 --> 01:45:56.140
quote -unquote high school boyfriend or whatever.

01:45:56.680 --> 01:45:58.319
Yeah, I mean, she didn't even care about that

01:45:58.319 --> 01:46:01.149
guy. She's just like... She's discovering her

01:46:01.149 --> 01:46:04.109
power and sexuality, which is a thing that women

01:46:04.109 --> 01:46:09.409
do earlier than men and stuff. Girls in their

01:46:09.409 --> 01:46:13.189
teenage years are, I feel like, maybe today,

01:46:13.550 --> 01:46:15.210
I don't know if it's always the case, but I feel

01:46:15.210 --> 01:46:19.670
less likely to just want to marry their first

01:46:19.670 --> 01:46:21.770
boyfriend. You know what I mean? Fall in love.

01:46:21.930 --> 01:46:25.189
I feel like there's often a... I don't know.

01:46:25.670 --> 01:46:28.659
It's a... less conservative time when it comes

01:46:28.659 --> 01:46:33.500
to that. Um, and that, I mean, I certainly don't

01:46:33.500 --> 01:46:36.119
see strawberry as a victim. Like it's very hard

01:46:36.119 --> 01:46:37.800
to see strawberry as a person who doesn't have

01:46:37.800 --> 01:46:41.199
agency. Right. And like, she's smarter than Mikey.

01:46:41.380 --> 01:46:43.439
Oh, she's definitely smarter than Mikey. And

01:46:43.439 --> 01:46:45.500
I think that she's definitely like toying with

01:46:45.500 --> 01:46:47.960
Mikey. And I think that she's definitely doing

01:46:47.960 --> 01:46:51.720
to Mikey, what Mikey does to Lottie and like

01:46:51.720 --> 01:46:55.130
what the girls do to Mikey. You know what I mean?

01:46:55.149 --> 01:46:57.449
Which is just kind of like use this person for

01:46:57.449 --> 01:47:00.970
as long as they're usable and then fucking completely

01:47:00.970 --> 01:47:03.989
forget about them because that was fun. And like,

01:47:04.029 --> 01:47:06.710
what's next? Yeah. You've outlived your usefulness.

01:47:06.729 --> 01:47:10.829
You can go. Right. Right. And I think that, you

01:47:10.829 --> 01:47:12.729
know, it's interesting to see a Lolita situation

01:47:12.729 --> 01:47:17.539
depicted where it's very much about like. This

01:47:17.539 --> 01:47:19.560
girl has a lot of agency, actually. It is kind

01:47:19.560 --> 01:47:21.819
of completely in control and toying with this

01:47:21.819 --> 01:47:24.899
guy whose whole life is sort of tied up in this

01:47:24.899 --> 01:47:27.180
lie that she's telling him. You know what I mean?

01:47:27.260 --> 01:47:32.699
But, like, she's fucking 17. So, like, why is

01:47:32.699 --> 01:47:34.539
she going to stick by it? You know what I mean?

01:47:34.619 --> 01:47:36.500
She wants to go on and fuck the other kid from

01:47:36.500 --> 01:47:38.899
her class next. Like, you're just the next thing

01:47:38.899 --> 01:47:41.380
in a, like, series of, like, self -discoveries

01:47:41.380 --> 01:47:43.890
or whatever. That, like, none of these people

01:47:43.890 --> 01:47:46.250
care about each other in this movie, dude. There

01:47:46.250 --> 01:47:48.250
is no love in this movie. These are all a bunch

01:47:48.250 --> 01:47:51.489
of, like, self -interested, like, I mean, you

01:47:51.489 --> 01:47:54.430
could see it as Randian virtue of selfishness

01:47:54.430 --> 01:47:57.430
and the failures of that. But, like, it kind

01:47:57.430 --> 01:48:00.850
of is, like, a libertarian view of relationships

01:48:00.850 --> 01:48:03.890
or something as transactional and, like, manipulative.

01:48:04.029 --> 01:48:07.489
It's all transactional, yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's

01:48:07.489 --> 01:48:09.390
no love. I mean, you could say a lot of that

01:48:09.390 --> 01:48:11.609
about Lolita, too, which was another movie that

01:48:11.609 --> 01:48:14.890
definitely, like, the DNA of Lolita is definitely

01:48:14.890 --> 01:48:19.250
in this movie. Yeah. I mean, Mikey is not quite

01:48:19.250 --> 01:48:22.310
as lame as Humbert Humbert, but he's still a

01:48:22.310 --> 01:48:24.710
cuck, basically, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:48:24.789 --> 01:48:27.149
Like... And, yeah, when, you know, she goes to

01:48:27.149 --> 01:48:30.399
Camp Climax for girls and... fucking is clearly

01:48:30.399 --> 01:48:32.939
fucking all the other boys at camp. Like Humbert's

01:48:32.939 --> 01:48:35.420
upset. She's not upset. Like she doesn't care.

01:48:35.579 --> 01:48:38.760
You know what I mean? She's just like a fun teenager

01:48:38.760 --> 01:48:42.479
having sex. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, uh, no, I

01:48:42.479 --> 01:48:44.060
don't, I don't know that that's, I, I'd like

01:48:44.060 --> 01:48:46.399
to actually read Lolita and kind of see the differences

01:48:46.399 --> 01:48:48.399
between what Kubrick's doing in that movie and

01:48:48.399 --> 01:48:50.239
what, you know, is actually in the book and stuff.

01:48:50.260 --> 01:48:53.579
But, um, But yeah, I think that's definitely

01:48:53.579 --> 01:48:55.699
the dynamic in this movie. I think that it's

01:48:55.699 --> 01:48:58.159
kind of hard in the end to see her as like a

01:48:58.159 --> 01:49:01.539
victim. I think that when she plays the song

01:49:01.539 --> 01:49:03.399
and stuff, it's kind of like, oh no, she's got

01:49:03.399 --> 01:49:07.100
like more going on. You know what I mean? And

01:49:07.100 --> 01:49:10.340
I like. Yeah, yeah. She can play, she can play

01:49:10.340 --> 01:49:12.680
piano. Yeah, there's just like, she has hidden

01:49:12.680 --> 01:49:14.460
talents. Like, you know what I mean? It's not,

01:49:14.479 --> 01:49:16.140
it's not that great of a talent or anything.

01:49:16.220 --> 01:49:18.579
It's not like an incredible, but it's like. Nah,

01:49:18.619 --> 01:49:21.039
she actually, she shouldn't just do porn, dude.

01:49:21.119 --> 01:49:23.500
Like, and she knows it, right? She can play,

01:49:23.500 --> 01:49:25.079
she can play piano. She could be an actress.

01:49:25.359 --> 01:49:27.840
She could, I mean, yeah, exactly. She could do,

01:49:27.920 --> 01:49:33.460
she could be Jill in Shampoo, you know? There's

01:49:33.460 --> 01:49:35.899
something pretty, like, interesting about that

01:49:35.899 --> 01:49:40.819
in a meta way, too. How Strawberry was, like,

01:49:40.840 --> 01:49:42.420
this is, like, her first movie. She's, like,

01:49:42.420 --> 01:49:45.420
basically an unknown. And they found her, and,

01:49:45.500 --> 01:49:48.590
like, she has to do a nude scene. where she's,

01:49:48.590 --> 01:49:52.289
like, topless playing a 17 -year -old, you know?

01:49:52.489 --> 01:49:54.670
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's something about that,

01:49:54.710 --> 01:49:56.729
too, that just feels, like, in a meta way sort

01:49:56.729 --> 01:50:00.010
of exploitative or whatever. Well, so apparently,

01:50:00.350 --> 01:50:04.590
according to the trivia section on IMDb, she

01:50:04.590 --> 01:50:07.149
was, like, so anxious about her sex scene that

01:50:07.149 --> 01:50:09.750
she, like, apparently, what it says is, she was

01:50:09.750 --> 01:50:11.729
so anxious about how her sex scene would play

01:50:11.729 --> 01:50:13.590
out that she paused it to shake out her nerves

01:50:13.590 --> 01:50:15.390
with a little dance and ended up breaking her

01:50:15.390 --> 01:50:17.560
foot. She said, the movie's there, paws on my

01:50:17.560 --> 01:50:19.579
breast, staring at me. I threw up on the carpet

01:50:19.579 --> 01:50:21.859
and kept watching, man. That tells you how much

01:50:21.859 --> 01:50:23.979
I needed to see it. Five days later, she was

01:50:23.979 --> 01:50:26.100
on the red carpet in Cannes for the film's premiere

01:50:26.100 --> 01:50:28.760
in a wheelchair with a cast on her foot. So apparently

01:50:28.760 --> 01:50:31.380
she had a lot of anxiety surrounding this sort

01:50:31.380 --> 01:50:34.640
of scene or whatever. Hearing that makes her

01:50:34.640 --> 01:50:37.739
sound really cool and together for some reason.

01:50:38.399 --> 01:50:41.840
Like a person who really cares about what she's

01:50:41.840 --> 01:50:45.890
doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, that's a big

01:50:45.890 --> 01:50:48.229
moment for you to do a nude scene and it's your

01:50:48.229 --> 01:50:52.149
first movie and whatever. She's like 20 -something

01:50:52.149 --> 01:50:55.430
or I don't know. She's significantly older than

01:50:55.430 --> 01:50:59.710
the age she's playing. But she does such an amazing

01:50:59.710 --> 01:51:04.069
job and yeah, I really love that scene where

01:51:04.069 --> 01:51:07.909
she plays Bye Bye Bye by NSYNC topless on a piano.

01:51:08.630 --> 01:51:13.670
And that choice too. Having the movie begin with

01:51:13.670 --> 01:51:16.829
NSYNC's Bye Bye Bye, I don't entirely have that

01:51:16.829 --> 01:51:19.289
understood either, but it's such an aesthetically

01:51:19.289 --> 01:51:21.550
good choice for some reason. A lot of the movie

01:51:21.550 --> 01:51:23.310
works in that way. Some of that is just like,

01:51:23.390 --> 01:51:26.409
I think that's his auteur thing. I've seen two

01:51:26.409 --> 01:51:28.449
of his movies, and I've heard that some of the

01:51:28.449 --> 01:51:32.130
other ones end the same way, at least with this

01:51:32.130 --> 01:51:35.020
sort of fantasy sequence or whatever. um it's

01:51:35.020 --> 01:51:38.140
anachronistic to like use an NSYNC song for 2016

01:51:38.140 --> 01:51:40.619
and whatever just like yeah yeah but it's the

01:51:40.619 --> 01:51:43.500
same with using the choice but what's the song

01:51:43.500 --> 01:51:46.699
they use in a Florida project um celebrate good

01:51:46.699 --> 01:51:50.420
times come on the 80s song or whatever yeah it's

01:51:50.420 --> 01:51:53.279
like totally I don't know it's in that one it

01:51:53.279 --> 01:51:57.300
plays as ironic and stuff but there's Yeah, I

01:51:57.300 --> 01:51:59.560
don't know. That, to me, in the ending of this

01:51:59.560 --> 01:52:02.119
movie, felt like, ah, well, this is your auteur

01:52:02.119 --> 01:52:03.800
touch or whatever, but I've kind of already seen

01:52:03.800 --> 01:52:07.619
this. I kind of wish you gave us a different

01:52:07.619 --> 01:52:09.220
ending or something than just doing the Florida

01:52:09.220 --> 01:52:11.680
Project's ending again. But I guess this kind

01:52:11.680 --> 01:52:14.039
of worked just as well as the Florida Project's

01:52:14.039 --> 01:52:16.640
ending worked and whatever. It's like, I don't

01:52:16.640 --> 01:52:18.600
know. I don't want to criticize him for being

01:52:18.600 --> 01:52:20.920
an auteur or whatever, but it's like... Do you

01:52:20.920 --> 01:52:26.540
think because the movie comes out in 2021, that

01:52:26.540 --> 01:52:28.939
Sean Baker was already aware of the results of

01:52:28.939 --> 01:52:32.119
the 2020 election and that there's sort of a

01:52:32.119 --> 01:52:34.880
book ending about like how this is when he won,

01:52:35.000 --> 01:52:37.720
but he's about to lose. Exactly. Just like Nixon.

01:52:37.819 --> 01:52:41.979
Bye bye bye. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think

01:52:41.979 --> 01:52:43.699
that's, I think that's part of it is we're watching

01:52:43.699 --> 01:52:46.699
the, you know, rise of a failure thing or whatever.

01:52:47.340 --> 01:52:51.880
Um, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Both movies really

01:52:51.880 --> 01:52:56.260
do like, bookend the presidency's rise and fall.

01:52:56.420 --> 01:52:58.979
I didn't even really think about that until it

01:52:58.979 --> 01:53:01.220
just got said now, but that's kind of interesting.

01:53:02.500 --> 01:53:05.840
Is that the same amount of years? So like 2016

01:53:05.840 --> 01:53:09.939
to 2021? That's five years? Yeah, pretty close.

01:53:10.060 --> 01:53:14.279
And then 68 to 75? It's a little bit more. It's

01:53:14.279 --> 01:53:18.520
close. But yeah, as far as Susanna's son being

01:53:18.520 --> 01:53:21.180
very nervous about her sex scene playing and

01:53:21.180 --> 01:53:23.699
whatever, I also think there's like porn of her

01:53:23.699 --> 01:53:26.359
sucking dick on the internet. So I don't know

01:53:26.359 --> 01:53:29.859
if that's fake, but I, I like looked it up, but

01:53:29.859 --> 01:53:32.100
I thought I found some that seemed pretty real.

01:53:32.460 --> 01:53:34.460
So I, cause I was wondering if she was like an

01:53:34.460 --> 01:53:37.180
actual porn actress and that's how he got, I

01:53:37.180 --> 01:53:39.340
guess like he just like saw her on the street

01:53:39.340 --> 01:53:41.520
at some point, like coming out of a movie premiere

01:53:41.520 --> 01:53:43.579
or something and like said, I want to use you

01:53:43.579 --> 01:53:44.840
in something and didn't call her until years

01:53:44.840 --> 01:53:47.220
later. What is something I. Sounds like what

01:53:47.220 --> 01:53:50.670
Mikey would do. Yeah, exactly. No, no. No, exactly.

01:53:50.710 --> 01:53:51.829
There's something really weird. There's something

01:53:51.829 --> 01:53:55.109
weird and exploitative about it. But that's why

01:53:55.109 --> 01:53:56.810
I was looking up like, is she from, did she do

01:53:56.810 --> 01:53:58.489
porn? Is that like, is this part of this reality

01:53:58.489 --> 01:54:01.130
thing? Because in his earlier movies, like these

01:54:01.130 --> 01:54:02.829
people were kind of real people and stuff. But

01:54:02.829 --> 01:54:06.409
I, I mean, I found some shit. I'm not sure if

01:54:06.409 --> 01:54:08.069
it's real, but I think it's real. I don't know

01:54:08.069 --> 01:54:11.189
why someone would fake it that well. Like, you

01:54:11.189 --> 01:54:14.189
know what I mean? So maybe there's some reality

01:54:14.189 --> 01:54:16.489
there too. That's like, well, then why was she

01:54:16.489 --> 01:54:20.029
so? Worried about her boobs being on screen.

01:54:20.229 --> 01:54:21.729
Well, I guess it's a bigger movie. I don't know.

01:54:21.810 --> 01:54:25.630
You know what I mean? Yeah. I guess another thing

01:54:25.630 --> 01:54:28.310
that would be, like, a stretch to assume about

01:54:28.310 --> 01:54:32.069
the movie, but, like, could be a thing, is just,

01:54:32.069 --> 01:54:34.970
like, how reliable is Mikey when he tells the

01:54:34.970 --> 01:54:39.069
story of his life? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was he really

01:54:39.069 --> 01:54:42.710
a porn star? You know, like, or did he just do

01:54:42.710 --> 01:54:45.630
a couple scenes? Like, what was he doing for

01:54:45.630 --> 01:54:49.550
17 years? He won best oral. I don't think that's...

01:54:49.550 --> 01:54:52.310
Well, he won an AVA, but he never had to prove

01:54:52.310 --> 01:54:54.109
it or anything. He never had to show anyone.

01:54:54.810 --> 01:54:58.069
Yeah, yeah, but, I mean... But I think he does,

01:54:58.149 --> 01:55:01.590
like, show somebody one of his scenes, and they're

01:55:01.590 --> 01:55:03.760
like, that's me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you often

01:55:03.760 --> 01:55:05.560
tell people to look him up and stuff. Like, I

01:55:05.560 --> 01:55:08.260
believe that he was a porn star. I don't think

01:55:08.260 --> 01:55:10.340
that's a lie. I don't think he's the biggest

01:55:10.340 --> 01:55:12.720
porn star that ever lived, but who is? Like,

01:55:12.739 --> 01:55:14.939
you know what I mean? Especially as a guy. Like,

01:55:14.960 --> 01:55:17.819
that's... Especially as a guy doing straight

01:55:17.819 --> 01:55:21.220
porn, you know? I mean, maybe he was doing gay

01:55:21.220 --> 01:55:23.260
porn, too, but... Maybe he was doing gay porn,

01:55:23.359 --> 01:55:26.180
too, yeah. Who knows? That's where the money's

01:55:26.180 --> 01:55:31.800
at. It's the gay for pay. Gay for pay. Yeah.

01:55:32.470 --> 01:55:35.310
That's the stuff. There just seems something

01:55:35.310 --> 01:55:38.569
weird about, a little off about his whole trajectory.

01:55:39.430 --> 01:55:45.829
It's like, the kind of hope he puts into Strawberry

01:55:45.829 --> 01:55:50.170
being some kind of moneymaker for him is a little

01:55:50.170 --> 01:55:52.029
weird and misleading. I don't know. It's like,

01:55:52.090 --> 01:55:56.010
is that all that it takes? Is that you just need

01:55:56.010 --> 01:56:00.439
to find... your girl and like pimp her up and

01:56:00.439 --> 01:56:04.779
make her a huge success um like the whole like

01:56:04.779 --> 01:56:06.960
the whole pimping aspect like he couldn't just

01:56:06.960 --> 01:56:11.159
make it in porn as an actor doing his thing he

01:56:11.159 --> 01:56:12.800
came back home with his tail between his legs

01:56:12.800 --> 01:56:16.399
right like it wasn't working out for him right

01:56:16.399 --> 01:56:18.819
this idea that he's just gonna bring this girl

01:56:18.819 --> 01:56:22.680
out there and make her some star and not lose

01:56:22.680 --> 01:56:25.579
her also just Yeah, not a loser too. It just

01:56:25.579 --> 01:56:29.260
seems like such a fantasy to begin with. He seems

01:56:29.260 --> 01:56:33.979
delusional. I mean, Lexi left him for some guy

01:56:33.979 --> 01:56:37.260
at Brazzers or something. What did he say? At

01:56:37.260 --> 01:56:41.500
Brazzers? They kept referencing real porn things

01:56:41.500 --> 01:56:44.720
and stuff. It's very funny. I didn't realize

01:56:44.720 --> 01:56:48.039
that Lexi was his girl, that she was doing porn

01:56:48.039 --> 01:56:50.060
with him. Is that definitely established? Yeah,

01:56:50.060 --> 01:56:52.039
yeah, yeah. That's a lot he's talking about.

01:56:52.479 --> 01:56:55.539
early on like that they used to watch lexi's

01:56:55.539 --> 01:56:58.539
videos at like all of the you know sleepover

01:56:58.539 --> 01:57:00.539
parties or whatever you know like he used to

01:57:00.539 --> 01:57:02.279
jerk off to her videos and stuff and whatever

01:57:02.279 --> 01:57:05.899
like yeah okay yeah that's right yeah yeah yeah

01:57:05.899 --> 01:57:10.180
yeah she's also a porn star yeah but he brought

01:57:10.180 --> 01:57:14.619
her out to la and then she left um to be with

01:57:14.619 --> 01:57:17.300
some other she started turning tricks did she

01:57:18.569 --> 01:57:20.710
well that's what her mom says she doesn't want

01:57:20.710 --> 01:57:22.710
her to go out there anymore it's dangerous like

01:57:22.710 --> 01:57:24.250
that's what she says to him like are you really

01:57:24.250 --> 01:57:27.229
in it yeah are you really like here for us and

01:57:27.229 --> 01:57:29.489
whatever right because that's my baby and i don't

01:57:29.489 --> 01:57:31.510
want her to get hurt and like she i don't want

01:57:31.510 --> 01:57:33.750
to turn tricks anymore and whatever yeah yeah

01:57:33.750 --> 01:57:37.489
that's right that's right but i'm talking about

01:57:37.489 --> 01:57:40.710
when she was in la um i was just talking about

01:57:40.710 --> 01:57:45.250
her going from his like him being in charge and

01:57:45.250 --> 01:57:47.149
doing their porn together or whatever and then

01:57:47.149 --> 01:57:49.529
like she went off with some other guy and then

01:57:49.529 --> 01:57:51.930
he said like after two months she was doing like

01:57:51.930 --> 01:57:54.010
crack again or something I don't know she was

01:57:54.010 --> 01:57:57.310
on drugs again and like you know I had her off

01:57:57.310 --> 01:57:59.630
drugs for like three years out there or whatever

01:57:59.630 --> 01:58:01.470
and then like as soon as I leave she's fucking

01:58:01.470 --> 01:58:04.949
you know Um, now who knows how reliable that

01:58:04.949 --> 01:58:07.449
story is? Like, that's the thing we're saying.

01:58:07.529 --> 01:58:09.930
Like, who, like, do you know how reliable a narrator

01:58:09.930 --> 01:58:12.550
is? Well, I know that in every one of his stories,

01:58:12.649 --> 01:58:15.449
he's a victim of like somebody else. Like the

01:58:15.449 --> 01:58:17.289
first scene when he comes home and he's just

01:58:17.289 --> 01:58:20.010
like talking about how. this person fucked him

01:58:20.010 --> 01:58:21.609
over and he was supposed to stay here, but then

01:58:21.609 --> 01:58:23.050
the cops came, whatever. And they're just like,

01:58:23.130 --> 01:58:25.350
why were you arrested? And they're like, yeah,

01:58:25.369 --> 01:58:27.289
I know, there's more to this story. Like, this

01:58:27.289 --> 01:58:30.069
is not, he's just rambling right now like a crazy

01:58:30.069 --> 01:58:32.270
person, but he's not telling us anything because,

01:58:32.470 --> 01:58:35.949
yeah. No, that's it right there. That's a good

01:58:35.949 --> 01:58:38.010
point, is that scene where it's like, I think

01:58:38.010 --> 01:58:40.890
that captures Mikey, which is like, he might

01:58:40.890 --> 01:58:43.430
be like using some elements of truth, but he's

01:58:43.430 --> 01:58:45.949
a bullshitter, just like George. Yeah, totally.

01:58:46.789 --> 01:58:48.789
He's just telling a bunch of bullshit to get

01:58:48.789 --> 01:58:52.850
his way and to figure out a way to gain sympathy

01:58:52.850 --> 01:58:56.250
or whatever it is. Lexi doesn't believe him,

01:58:56.369 --> 01:58:58.489
but she's still willing to let him stay there

01:58:58.489 --> 01:59:02.289
and fuck him and maybe get some money out of

01:59:02.289 --> 01:59:04.930
it. You know what I mean? Well, the money is

01:59:04.930 --> 01:59:07.770
what changes things. They want him to leave,

01:59:07.829 --> 01:59:10.069
but he actually brings home some money and he

01:59:10.069 --> 01:59:12.449
makes it rain on them or whatever and they're

01:59:12.449 --> 01:59:15.510
like, okay, cool. Right, right. He's like, I

01:59:15.510 --> 01:59:17.170
got the money. And they're like, okay, cool.

01:59:17.369 --> 01:59:19.270
Like, they just, like, they change in an instant.

01:59:19.470 --> 01:59:21.829
Yep. Like, okay, you got the money. Cool. Yep.

01:59:22.310 --> 01:59:24.649
But there's still a freebasing crack outside.

01:59:24.829 --> 01:59:26.529
And she's like, she can't get her medications

01:59:26.529 --> 01:59:30.090
or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So

01:59:30.090 --> 01:59:32.590
we need a freebase crack because she can't get

01:59:32.590 --> 01:59:37.590
any meds. Right, right. Thanks, Obama. So, yeah,

01:59:37.670 --> 01:59:40.909
I mean, I, the thing I was sort of thinking was,

01:59:40.989 --> 01:59:44.680
like, Red Rocket would be. a pretty interesting

01:59:44.680 --> 01:59:47.680
spiritual sequel to shampoo in general like i

01:59:47.680 --> 01:59:50.439
could kind of imagine i mean they're almost the

01:59:50.439 --> 01:59:53.159
same movie in a lot of ways man they're they're

01:59:53.159 --> 01:59:55.119
like they're so i'm saying i could almost imagine

01:59:55.119 --> 01:59:59.439
um i could almost imagine george like because

01:59:59.439 --> 02:00:01.859
like i mean like things don't work out with lester

02:00:01.859 --> 02:00:04.020
and he doesn't get money he doesn't get to start

02:00:04.020 --> 02:00:07.560
his business and he's and then i the idea of

02:00:07.560 --> 02:00:09.600
him actually getting involved in porn in the

02:00:09.600 --> 02:00:15.000
70s like uh just like kind of makes sense to

02:00:15.000 --> 02:00:16.260
me because like well i only have one talent i

02:00:16.260 --> 02:00:18.119
love to fuck chicks so i guess that's all i have

02:00:18.119 --> 02:00:20.739
and and he just kind of continues to do that

02:00:20.739 --> 02:00:22.600
but he finds a way to make money from it which

02:00:22.600 --> 02:00:26.000
is to go into the porn industry as it starts

02:00:26.000 --> 02:00:29.659
to burgeon up in the 70s and then um you know

02:00:29.659 --> 02:00:35.600
fails and has to reconnect with a long lost lover

02:00:35.600 --> 02:00:39.619
or wife years later and still just doing the

02:00:39.619 --> 02:00:42.300
same old bullshit where he's trying to find a

02:00:42.300 --> 02:00:44.300
way to something better, but he's totally delusional

02:00:44.300 --> 02:00:46.680
and doesn't have any real power, any real way

02:00:46.680 --> 02:00:51.039
to do it. And kind of is just that person, you

02:00:51.039 --> 02:00:54.239
know, like... A bullshit artist. A politician.

02:00:54.460 --> 02:00:59.159
A prostitute. A prostitute, a politician, a bullshit

02:00:59.159 --> 02:01:01.899
artist, exactly. And that right there, yeah,

02:01:01.939 --> 02:01:07.520
that sort of unifies both movies in a broad way.

02:01:09.079 --> 02:01:10.960
Yeah, one's a little more political than the

02:01:10.960 --> 02:01:15.100
other. Yeah. Yeah. But they, but I mean, the

02:01:15.100 --> 02:01:17.600
political like connections between the two are

02:01:17.600 --> 02:01:19.520
pretty, like pretty interesting though. You're

02:01:19.520 --> 02:01:21.479
right. You're right about the, like, this is

02:01:21.479 --> 02:01:23.560
a period piece from a couple of years ago. It

02:01:23.560 --> 02:01:25.840
happens on the election day. It's about, there's

02:01:25.840 --> 02:01:29.020
like, it's, they are very, very connected, um,

02:01:29.239 --> 02:01:34.359
weirdly, but yeah, I think, I think it's harder

02:01:34.359 --> 02:01:37.550
to see more into the gender dynamic stuff. Yeah,

02:01:37.550 --> 02:01:39.109
no, I think you're right. I think you're right.

02:01:39.210 --> 02:01:42.050
But I also think that's what's more in the air

02:01:42.050 --> 02:01:46.750
in 2016, you know, just like the straight conversation

02:01:46.750 --> 02:01:49.149
is what's in the air in 68. That was this whole

02:01:49.149 --> 02:01:50.729
last year's... Yeah, well, in 2021 when this

02:01:50.729 --> 02:01:54.869
movie's made, yeah. But last year, too, 2023's,

02:01:54.890 --> 02:01:57.430
like, whole fucking Oscar, like, every single

02:01:57.430 --> 02:01:59.550
movie in the Academy Awards last year was about

02:01:59.550 --> 02:02:02.170
that subject. Like, it was just about gender

02:02:02.170 --> 02:02:07.100
dynamics. Even, like... Yeah, I don't know. Even

02:02:07.100 --> 02:02:09.119
Oppenheimer and stuff. Like, even, you know,

02:02:09.180 --> 02:02:14.340
all of them. No, yeah, you're right. Like, it's

02:02:14.340 --> 02:02:16.079
really in the air now. And like you said, yeah,

02:02:16.180 --> 02:02:19.460
it was all part of the Academy Awards in 2023.

02:02:20.300 --> 02:02:24.680
But, I mean, in a way, like, it's like the May

02:02:24.680 --> 02:02:26.659
-December thing we were talking about, about

02:02:26.659 --> 02:02:28.920
the looking back to see the seeds of something.

02:02:29.220 --> 02:02:32.050
Yeah, yeah, yeah. um totally another another

02:02:32.050 --> 02:02:35.569
recent period piece like uh about about a period

02:02:35.569 --> 02:02:39.890
piece about a recent time um yeah yeah and finding

02:02:39.890 --> 02:02:43.789
the seeds of like what we're all talking about

02:02:43.789 --> 02:02:46.789
in the culture now and i think both shampoo and

02:02:46.789 --> 02:02:50.529
red rocket do that it's like it's 1975 and we're

02:02:50.529 --> 02:02:53.130
gonna go back to 68 to be able to like look at

02:02:53.130 --> 02:02:56.109
the seeds of how we got here how we failed to

02:02:56.109 --> 02:02:59.880
get to this point yeah yeah Yeah. And similarly

02:02:59.880 --> 02:03:02.579
in Red Rocket, let's go back to 2016 to see the

02:03:02.579 --> 02:03:08.680
seeds of how we got to this. Right. And does

02:03:08.680 --> 02:03:10.939
it in a way that's very slice of life and about

02:03:10.939 --> 02:03:13.579
the personal struggles of people as opposed to

02:03:13.579 --> 02:03:17.340
some kind of big, overambitious, macro, political

02:03:17.340 --> 02:03:19.579
thriller thing. You know what I mean? Right,

02:03:19.619 --> 02:03:23.300
right, right. Like traffic. Traffic. Like traffic.

02:03:24.880 --> 02:03:28.220
Or a contagion. contagion of trump sure yeah

02:03:28.220 --> 02:03:34.680
exactly the contagion of trump yeah yeah um I

02:03:34.680 --> 02:03:37.060
also liked how not self -serious it was, though.

02:03:37.180 --> 02:03:40.420
Like, the movie is basically very dark and, like,

02:03:40.439 --> 02:03:43.380
miserable, except that it's so much fun. Like,

02:03:43.380 --> 02:03:46.479
you never feel any... Yeah, yeah, Red Rocket.

02:03:46.640 --> 02:03:48.880
Like, it's not... Like, if you're thinking about

02:03:48.880 --> 02:03:50.420
what it's talking about and what it's actually

02:03:50.420 --> 02:03:52.600
depicting and stuff, it's, like, these really

02:03:52.600 --> 02:03:55.579
sad people and these really pathetic, like, situations

02:03:55.579 --> 02:03:58.100
just, like, fucking each other. But, like...

02:03:58.270 --> 02:04:01.210
In every single scene, it's funny. He's very

02:04:01.210 --> 02:04:07.470
endearing. He's really dumb. Specifically, connecting

02:04:07.470 --> 02:04:10.390
this to Shampoo, too. Warren Beatty has always

02:04:10.390 --> 02:04:14.409
been great at playing a dumb guy. I think in

02:04:14.409 --> 02:04:18.369
real life, he's a smart enough guy to know that

02:04:18.369 --> 02:04:20.850
he can't be a smart enough guy. You know what

02:04:20.850 --> 02:04:24.850
I mean? He does a really good job of not being

02:04:24.850 --> 02:04:27.659
in on the joke or something. But the movie being,

02:04:27.699 --> 02:04:29.899
like, Bullworth is an example of, like, he's

02:04:29.899 --> 02:04:32.500
playing, like, a dorky dude, but, like, everything

02:04:32.500 --> 02:04:34.899
he says comes off as dumb, kind of, and funny,

02:04:35.000 --> 02:04:36.739
but, like, also brilliant. Like, I don't know.

02:04:38.319 --> 02:04:40.699
Another movie that sort of criticizes the left.

02:04:40.939 --> 02:04:44.119
Oh, yeah, yeah. Huge, huge attack on the left,

02:04:44.180 --> 02:04:47.939
Bullworth. Love that movie. But Warren Beatty

02:04:47.939 --> 02:04:51.500
is a huge leftist. Like, you know, it's... Yeah,

02:04:51.500 --> 02:04:54.619
exactly. He's a communist, basically. Like, it's,

02:04:54.619 --> 02:04:58.020
you know, so... I, I love it. Like, I don't know.

02:04:58.060 --> 02:04:59.579
Well, I guess, well, I guess, I guess the thing

02:04:59.579 --> 02:05:02.960
is like being a, um, you love what attack? I

02:05:02.960 --> 02:05:05.460
love that attack. I love an attack on the left

02:05:05.460 --> 02:05:08.779
coming from like further left, you know, it's,

02:05:08.779 --> 02:05:10.359
well, you're right. Because if you're, if you're

02:05:10.359 --> 02:05:13.380
a true, if you're a true leftist, like our friend

02:05:13.380 --> 02:05:16.039
heavy, who's going to join us on the next pod.

02:05:16.680 --> 02:05:20.779
Um, You are like anti -capitalism, like you're

02:05:20.779 --> 02:05:23.340
anti -statist. You're like anti -both political

02:05:23.340 --> 02:05:26.000
parties. Right, right. Liberalism is not. You're

02:05:26.000 --> 02:05:29.199
anti -democrat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Leftism. Liberalism

02:05:29.199 --> 02:05:33.079
is not leftism. And so they get conflated a lot,

02:05:33.140 --> 02:05:34.960
especially nowadays when people say, oh, the

02:05:34.960 --> 02:05:37.079
left, the left, the left. I conflate them a lot,

02:05:37.119 --> 02:05:40.500
yes. Yeah, yeah. I do that. Well, it's like when

02:05:40.500 --> 02:05:42.960
we say the left these days, like usually we're

02:05:42.960 --> 02:05:46.329
talking about liberals. When we talk about wokeism

02:05:46.329 --> 02:05:48.670
and all this kind of bullshit, it's like real

02:05:48.670 --> 02:05:51.590
leftists are not actually being represented in

02:05:51.590 --> 02:05:54.050
the culture that frequently. Right. Because there

02:05:54.050 --> 02:05:56.069
are people who just want to tear everything down.

02:05:56.310 --> 02:06:00.829
Right. But neither of these movies portray real

02:06:00.829 --> 02:06:06.369
leftists. No, no, no. But what do they believe?

02:06:06.470 --> 02:06:09.329
That's the thing. I don't know. This goes back

02:06:09.329 --> 02:06:11.409
to the thing of are these political movies or

02:06:11.409 --> 02:06:15.159
apolitical movies or whatever? We agreed that

02:06:15.159 --> 02:06:20.159
both George and Lester in Shampoo end up kind

02:06:20.159 --> 02:06:23.020
of not giving a fuck about politics. That's not

02:06:23.020 --> 02:06:25.699
what it's necessarily about for them. And they're

02:06:25.699 --> 02:06:28.979
not choosing teams necessarily in any kind of

02:06:28.979 --> 02:06:32.039
deep heartfelt way. And everyone in Red Rocket

02:06:32.039 --> 02:06:34.319
is similar. It's like, yeah, I actually ultimately

02:06:34.319 --> 02:06:36.619
don't really know who these people would vote

02:06:36.619 --> 02:06:38.739
for. I feel like they're all going to vote for

02:06:38.739 --> 02:06:40.159
Trump. I feel like none of them are going to

02:06:40.159 --> 02:06:43.630
vote. Or none of them are going to vote. They're

02:06:43.630 --> 02:06:48.430
actually just totally checked out. It's hard

02:06:48.430 --> 02:06:50.449
to see the Trump connection except for these

02:06:50.449 --> 02:06:53.149
are the people that we forgot about. Because

02:06:53.149 --> 02:06:55.649
of these forgotten people, we get Trump or something.

02:06:58.069 --> 02:06:59.789
That's the same as Florida Project. Maybe that's

02:06:59.789 --> 02:07:02.109
not even the thing. A lot of things. I don't

02:07:02.109 --> 02:07:05.689
know. Well, George definitely didn't vote for

02:07:05.689 --> 02:07:07.930
Nixon. I mean, you don't see him go to the polls

02:07:07.930 --> 02:07:11.510
on election day. No, but they're at a benefit

02:07:11.510 --> 02:07:15.609
for, like, the Nixon thing. No, yeah, and those

02:07:15.609 --> 02:07:17.189
people are Republicans, but they also go to a

02:07:17.189 --> 02:07:19.369
counterculture party, and those people aren't

02:07:19.369 --> 02:07:21.010
voting for Nixon. They might not even be voting

02:07:21.010 --> 02:07:24.470
at all either. Right, right. Like, just talking

02:07:24.470 --> 02:07:28.329
about the apolitical nature of, you know, the

02:07:28.329 --> 02:07:30.449
hippie movement in general, like, I don't know.

02:07:30.510 --> 02:07:32.550
Maybe I'm ignorant, and I don't know a whole

02:07:32.550 --> 02:07:35.409
shitload about it, but... I'm under the impression

02:07:35.409 --> 02:07:37.189
that that wasn't a get -out -to -vote movement.

02:07:37.250 --> 02:07:39.130
It was more of a, like, fuck -the -whole -system

02:07:39.130 --> 02:07:41.310
movement. And so they're not going to go out

02:07:41.310 --> 02:07:42.810
and vote for Hubert Humphrey or whatever. There's

02:07:42.810 --> 02:07:44.670
different things, right? Like, at the time, there's

02:07:44.670 --> 02:07:47.090
the Civil Rights Movement and shit, and there's

02:07:47.090 --> 02:07:49.090
also the SDS, and then there's, like, the Weather

02:07:49.090 --> 02:07:51.449
Underground eventually in the 70s that's, like,

02:07:51.489 --> 02:07:55.289
the, like, super, you know, terrorist student

02:07:55.289 --> 02:07:59.010
movement. You know what I mean? Yeah. And, like,

02:07:59.029 --> 02:08:02.779
those all were new... powerful political and

02:08:02.779 --> 02:08:04.840
there's the Black Panthers and stuff at that

02:08:04.840 --> 02:08:06.720
point like there's a lot of sort of political

02:08:06.720 --> 02:08:09.880
pushes and stuff but those are not the same people

02:08:09.880 --> 02:08:14.439
as yeah like uh Ken Kesey or uh or uh what's

02:08:14.439 --> 02:08:17.829
his name the Harvard guy Timothy Leary. Timothy

02:08:17.829 --> 02:08:22.489
Leary or whatever. Those real acid guru guys

02:08:22.489 --> 02:08:25.210
are like the Grateful Dead or something. You

02:08:25.210 --> 02:08:28.210
know what I mean? Whatever other countercultural

02:08:28.210 --> 02:08:31.010
– yeah, those people are not saying how important

02:08:31.010 --> 02:08:34.109
it is to go out and vote often. I don't think

02:08:34.109 --> 02:08:36.970
you hear a lot of interviews with Jimi Hendrix

02:08:36.970 --> 02:08:38.789
where he's talking about needing to vote and

02:08:38.789 --> 02:08:41.890
stuff. I don't think that's kind of the interest.

02:08:42.729 --> 02:08:44.810
I could be wrong about... Maybe there are interviews

02:08:44.810 --> 02:08:47.029
with some of these people, but that's... Well,

02:08:47.069 --> 02:08:49.050
the Black Panthers weren't a get -out -to -vote

02:08:49.050 --> 02:08:50.409
thing either, even though they're political.

02:08:50.529 --> 02:08:52.789
It's about, like, fuck that system. It doesn't

02:08:52.789 --> 02:08:54.890
work for us, so we're creating our own system.

02:08:55.350 --> 02:08:57.189
That's a conservative movement. I mean, the Black

02:08:57.189 --> 02:09:00.250
Panthers is a conservative movement. The government

02:09:00.250 --> 02:09:02.489
needs to give us our guns. Out of all those movements,

02:09:02.609 --> 02:09:04.369
the Black Panthers is the one that was working

02:09:04.369 --> 02:09:07.550
the most. They actually had some kind of structure

02:09:07.550 --> 02:09:09.350
and understanding of the thing they were fighting

02:09:09.350 --> 02:09:12.060
against. actually trying to come up with something

02:09:12.060 --> 02:09:15.100
that would like coexist with it to some degree

02:09:15.100 --> 02:09:17.119
but give them more power in their communities

02:09:17.119 --> 02:09:20.000
and stuff right which is why you know it couldn't

02:09:20.000 --> 02:09:22.720
be allowed to exist and then they you know started

02:09:22.720 --> 02:09:25.479
creating anti -gun laws to take down the black

02:09:25.479 --> 02:09:27.659
you could let the hippies exist because like

02:09:27.659 --> 02:09:29.279
they're not actually like a political movement

02:09:29.279 --> 02:09:31.899
with any political power like they're not and

02:09:31.899 --> 02:09:33.939
in fact you can leverage them to show that like

02:09:33.939 --> 02:09:36.439
everything is chaotic and there's lots of unrest

02:09:36.439 --> 02:09:39.000
and so vote for me i'm richard nixon law and

02:09:39.000 --> 02:09:42.420
order Yeah. Totally. But it's, but it's all those

02:09:42.420 --> 02:09:44.479
other things that are causing unrest too. It's,

02:09:44.479 --> 02:09:46.739
you know, it's the, it's the black Panthers causing

02:09:46.739 --> 02:09:48.659
unrest that are getting white America scared

02:09:48.659 --> 02:09:51.359
too. And it's any of these movements that kind

02:09:51.359 --> 02:09:55.939
of end up with me, but it is like, I don't know.

02:09:55.960 --> 02:09:57.560
It is these countercultural movements. I think

02:09:57.560 --> 02:10:00.140
that's, yeah, that's kind of what we see through

02:10:00.140 --> 02:10:01.779
Warren Beatty's character. Now he's not a black

02:10:01.779 --> 02:10:03.720
Panther. You know what I mean? Black Panther

02:10:03.720 --> 02:10:06.619
would be. a different paradigm, much more conservative

02:10:06.619 --> 02:10:09.399
paradigm than these others, but the leftist sort

02:10:09.399 --> 02:10:13.920
of SDS, like get out and vote kids stuff that

02:10:13.920 --> 02:10:16.159
is connected with like the anti -Vietnam stuff

02:10:16.159 --> 02:10:20.180
and all of that. Um, that was a like significant

02:10:20.180 --> 02:10:23.119
political force at the time. Um, but like not

02:10:23.119 --> 02:10:26.739
as significant as conservative America, the,

02:10:26.819 --> 02:10:29.859
you know, the silent majority is as Nixon called

02:10:29.859 --> 02:10:33.840
them. Yeah. And are they still the silent majority

02:10:33.840 --> 02:10:37.100
in 2016? It's a very different paradigm, man.

02:10:37.180 --> 02:10:41.340
I like, I think it's, it's weird like to, to

02:10:41.340 --> 02:10:44.000
try and look at red rockets. Like, cause yeah,

02:10:44.079 --> 02:10:45.760
none of these people are voting. Like who you

02:10:45.760 --> 02:10:47.819
think these people, maybe they are. Maybe the,

02:10:47.819 --> 02:10:50.560
maybe the mom is going like, okay, we got to

02:10:50.560 --> 02:10:52.439
go down and vote today. And she brings the daughter

02:10:52.439 --> 02:10:56.079
and they go vote. Like, but I just like, I doubt

02:10:56.079 --> 02:10:59.800
it. I don't know. It's like. Yeah, but I'm also

02:10:59.800 --> 02:11:01.939
not, like, entirely convinced that Lester and

02:11:01.939 --> 02:11:03.920
George voted. You know, even though they go to

02:11:03.920 --> 02:11:06.560
that party, and George is invited to it from

02:11:06.560 --> 02:11:08.319
Lester, but just because Lester's there, like,

02:11:08.359 --> 02:11:10.439
schmoozing and stuff, because, like, he even

02:11:10.439 --> 02:11:12.500
describes the party as that. Like, it's a work

02:11:12.500 --> 02:11:15.079
thing for him. Like, he's not going because he

02:11:15.079 --> 02:11:17.020
believes in anything. He's going there because

02:11:17.020 --> 02:11:19.420
he has to, like, talk to some investors and shit

02:11:19.420 --> 02:11:21.520
like that. Yeah, well, that's how he gains power

02:11:21.520 --> 02:11:25.180
is through these sorts of parties, yeah. And

02:11:25.180 --> 02:11:28.140
they make sure to note there's never a moment.

02:11:28.239 --> 02:11:30.260
It's election day, so they would have to go to

02:11:30.260 --> 02:11:33.359
the polls that day. There's no note of I'm going

02:11:33.359 --> 02:11:35.079
to the polls or that's something that has to

02:11:35.079 --> 02:11:41.460
be done today. They seem very busy. You're watching

02:11:41.460 --> 02:11:45.399
their entire day play out. Yeah, they don't seem

02:11:45.399 --> 02:11:46.560
to have time for the polls. What their concern

02:11:46.560 --> 02:11:51.260
is is not getting to the polls. But who knows,

02:11:51.260 --> 02:11:55.739
man? Who knows? Maybe Lester woke up early and

02:11:55.739 --> 02:11:59.119
cast a vote for Nixon or whatever. But I think

02:11:59.119 --> 02:12:01.119
both movies are similarly dealing with characters

02:12:01.119 --> 02:12:05.020
who are a lot more apolitical in practice, or

02:12:05.020 --> 02:12:06.939
at least in their heart, in their values. Maybe

02:12:06.939 --> 02:12:09.699
in practice they do political things or they

02:12:09.699 --> 02:12:11.779
choose a team or whatever they need to do to

02:12:11.779 --> 02:12:16.279
survive and gain power in whatever moment. But

02:12:16.279 --> 02:12:18.880
really it's just about that shit. It's just about

02:12:18.880 --> 02:12:22.270
survival. Which is the same with all the relationships

02:12:22.270 --> 02:12:27.689
in Red Rocket, yeah. Yeah. Sex and power underlying

02:12:27.689 --> 02:12:31.449
the money and politics. Yeah, but I think, I

02:12:31.449 --> 02:12:38.909
mean, sex and these relationships and these social

02:12:38.909 --> 02:12:44.829
situations, that sort of power is not the real

02:12:44.829 --> 02:12:48.770
power. The real power is the power that Lester

02:12:48.770 --> 02:12:52.729
has. Right. Like that's, that's the real power

02:12:52.729 --> 02:12:55.130
in red rocket. There's no real power, I think.

02:12:55.170 --> 02:12:59.189
Cause it's all just sort of this relationships

02:12:59.189 --> 02:13:03.710
and social interactions thing. It's like, it's

02:13:03.710 --> 02:13:06.210
completely existing in that world of women that

02:13:06.210 --> 02:13:09.289
like, uh, that, uh, Warren Beatty is talking

02:13:09.289 --> 02:13:11.350
about in the shampoo. It was just kind of like,

02:13:11.409 --> 02:13:13.069
do you even listen to them? Cause I'm in it all

02:13:13.069 --> 02:13:16.329
day. And like, I, and all they ever talk about

02:13:16.329 --> 02:13:20.640
is this. So I, I think that it's interesting

02:13:20.640 --> 02:13:23.920
that red rocket, like he exists as kind of like

02:13:23.920 --> 02:13:25.500
this feminine thing, but in a world where there

02:13:25.500 --> 02:13:29.079
is no sort of masculine power, you know, maybe

02:13:29.079 --> 02:13:34.539
the only, like, like that's like, um, the Lester

02:13:34.539 --> 02:13:39.399
of red rocket is Lonnie. Like that's what's changed

02:13:39.399 --> 02:13:41.779
politically. You know what I mean? Is like, that's

02:13:41.779 --> 02:13:44.399
the conservative in this movie. It's like, that's

02:13:44.399 --> 02:13:47.829
the guy who like, Would be the Lester, but, like,

02:13:47.829 --> 02:13:49.989
now he's just, like, living in his parents' house

02:13:49.989 --> 02:13:53.590
and, like, he's probably a virgin. You know what

02:13:53.590 --> 02:13:55.550
I mean? And, like, he's going out pretending

02:13:55.550 --> 02:13:58.010
to be a soldier and stuff. He's, like, the least

02:13:58.010 --> 02:14:01.850
masculine, pathetic. And then he kills a bunch

02:14:01.850 --> 02:14:03.409
of people by accident just by being an idiot.

02:14:03.590 --> 02:14:05.630
It's, like, ridiculous. You know what I mean?

02:14:05.649 --> 02:14:09.289
It's just, like, he's a fucking mess. Like, it's

02:14:09.289 --> 02:14:11.949
the worst. I think Mikey grabs the steering wheel,

02:14:12.050 --> 02:14:16.949
but yes. Does he grab the steering wheel? It's

02:14:16.949 --> 02:14:20.149
definitely Mikey's fault. I don't know, man.

02:14:20.529 --> 02:14:22.789
I think Mikey says right here that he just does

02:14:22.789 --> 02:14:26.090
it. But I don't know. You sure? He doesn't grab

02:14:26.090 --> 02:14:28.449
the wheel? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. It's one

02:14:28.449 --> 02:14:32.069
of the two. Well, Mikey puts the pressure on

02:14:32.069 --> 02:14:33.850
him for sure. He's like, go, go, go. It's right

02:14:33.850 --> 02:14:38.409
here. It's that last minute thing. Yeah. But

02:14:38.409 --> 02:14:41.590
yeah, I don't know. About power, though, if you

02:14:41.590 --> 02:14:43.750
want to have a broader conversation before we

02:14:43.750 --> 02:14:51.180
wrap up here. I kind of think politics is, like,

02:14:51.260 --> 02:14:54.220
when you say Lester has the true power, the raw

02:14:54.220 --> 02:14:58.020
power, what is that? It's not political power.

02:14:58.359 --> 02:15:01.579
It's just the power of money. I think that's,

02:15:01.579 --> 02:15:04.159
yeah. He's got fuck you money. He's got fuck

02:15:04.159 --> 02:15:06.180
you money. Yeah. He's just got enough money,

02:15:06.220 --> 02:15:08.180
and the money puts you above the politics, right?

02:15:08.180 --> 02:15:09.699
Yeah, I mean, fuck you money, the concept of

02:15:09.699 --> 02:15:11.739
fuck you money is, like, you got a problem? Fuck

02:15:11.739 --> 02:15:14.729
you. And you just throw the money at it. You

02:15:14.729 --> 02:15:15.989
know what I mean? And if you go back to like

02:15:15.989 --> 02:15:18.270
ancient times, that translates to just having

02:15:18.270 --> 02:15:21.890
more goods, more food, just more things you can

02:15:21.890 --> 02:15:25.989
provide to your harem. Right. Yeah. But it's

02:15:25.989 --> 02:15:28.149
also, it's also the power of force, man. It's

02:15:28.149 --> 02:15:31.090
like that money, money is representative of force.

02:15:31.130 --> 02:15:32.689
Like you were talking in an earlier episode about

02:15:32.689 --> 02:15:35.010
like companies taking each other over or whatever,

02:15:35.090 --> 02:15:37.369
that it's all financial, but really it's like

02:15:37.369 --> 02:15:40.760
all done. at gunpoint like not really at gunpoint

02:15:40.760 --> 02:15:42.600
but it's like it's all these companies are being

02:15:42.600 --> 02:15:45.359
forced to do these things that they don't it's

02:15:45.359 --> 02:15:50.380
it's not seduction it's force um and i think

02:15:50.380 --> 02:15:54.460
that that's sort of like it's a stick yeah um

02:15:54.460 --> 02:16:00.220
lester's whole world is force and like george

02:16:00.220 --> 02:16:03.100
is existing in this seduction you know realm

02:16:03.100 --> 02:16:06.319
um so george is the carrot and lester's the stick

02:16:06.970 --> 02:16:10.869
I guess, I guess, I guess, but it's not, he doesn't

02:16:10.869 --> 02:16:12.989
have to be the state. Lester's the carrot too,

02:16:13.090 --> 02:16:17.289
man. It's like, I, he just has real power. Whereas

02:16:17.289 --> 02:16:19.550
like all of these other things below him are

02:16:19.550 --> 02:16:21.569
like social dynamics playing out or whatever

02:16:21.569 --> 02:16:23.949
in this world that like Lester has created for

02:16:23.949 --> 02:16:27.670
his harem, like essentially. And like basically

02:16:27.670 --> 02:16:31.050
Beatty's just part of that harem. And you know,

02:16:31.069 --> 02:16:33.829
in the end he may get invested in, right? Like

02:16:33.829 --> 02:16:37.540
maybe. He says he's going to call him the next

02:16:37.540 --> 02:16:40.659
day. Yeah. And then he picks up. He decides to

02:16:40.659 --> 02:16:43.680
leave his wife and rides off in the sunset with

02:16:43.680 --> 02:16:47.819
Jackie. It's kind of ambiguous whether or not

02:16:47.819 --> 02:16:50.719
that deal is going to actually play out. I don't

02:16:50.719 --> 02:16:55.139
believe it will, personally. Just like I don't

02:16:55.139 --> 02:16:58.940
believe Mikey's going to take Strawberry to L

02:16:58.940 --> 02:17:02.739
.A. and shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I concur. I concur.

02:17:03.659 --> 02:17:07.819
He could just say it just to say it. He could

02:17:07.819 --> 02:17:09.639
just say, yeah, I'll call you tomorrow just to

02:17:09.639 --> 02:17:12.459
get him off his case. Like, yeah, like Strawberry,

02:17:12.719 --> 02:17:15.100
exactly. Yeah, sure. Because, like, the problem

02:17:15.100 --> 02:17:21.040
is not agreeing to it right then. And, like,

02:17:21.079 --> 02:17:24.379
you know, George just completely just has nothing

02:17:24.379 --> 02:17:27.139
to say in any of his negotiations with Lester

02:17:27.139 --> 02:17:29.680
anyway. We don't even really hear George making

02:17:29.680 --> 02:17:31.920
a case for his business or anything. It's all

02:17:31.920 --> 02:17:33.760
the women making a case. Like Jackie walks in,

02:17:33.799 --> 02:17:35.020
it's like, oh, he's such a great hairdresser.

02:17:35.299 --> 02:17:37.180
It's like, well, my wife told me you were a great

02:17:37.180 --> 02:17:39.020
hairdresser and Jackie told me you were a great

02:17:39.020 --> 02:17:45.000
hairdresser. So I trust my women. I guess. He's

02:17:45.000 --> 02:17:46.959
a great hairdresser because he rubs their heads

02:17:46.959 --> 02:17:49.340
on his crotch. That's true. He does. That's why

02:17:49.340 --> 02:17:51.399
he's a great hairdresser. You know what I mean?

02:17:51.399 --> 02:17:55.180
I mean, I guess the hairstyles are of the time

02:17:55.180 --> 02:17:57.440
and would have been seen as good hairstyles,

02:17:57.459 --> 02:18:00.200
right? He gives both of the girls the same haircut,

02:18:00.420 --> 02:18:05.159
which is funny. Having both of Lester's girls

02:18:05.159 --> 02:18:08.360
have both been given the same haircut by the

02:18:08.360 --> 02:18:11.459
same guy that they're both sleeping with. It's

02:18:11.459 --> 02:18:14.209
very funny. Exactly, yeah. I mean, there is something

02:18:14.209 --> 02:18:19.530
like kind of sexual about not sexual. There's

02:18:19.530 --> 02:18:21.270
something kind of intimate about getting a haircut.

02:18:21.489 --> 02:18:23.969
Yeah. Yeah. When someone's touching your neck

02:18:23.969 --> 02:18:26.889
and your head and they're talking to you and

02:18:26.889 --> 02:18:28.909
they're trying to make you look good and like

02:18:28.909 --> 02:18:30.989
give you sex appeal and whatever. There's just

02:18:30.989 --> 02:18:34.649
something very intimate about that. And if you're

02:18:34.649 --> 02:18:37.670
if you're a woman and like, you know, a lot of

02:18:37.670 --> 02:18:39.629
salons at that time, I guess you're most likely

02:18:39.629 --> 02:18:43.110
going to have like a female hairdresser. And

02:18:43.110 --> 02:18:45.270
so it might be more rare to have a man, and then

02:18:45.270 --> 02:18:48.069
there's actual sexual tension there that's heightened

02:18:48.069 --> 02:18:52.129
because he's touching you and listening to you,

02:18:52.190 --> 02:18:55.489
I guess, even more importantly. Yeah. Like, there's

02:18:55.489 --> 02:18:57.989
a man who listens to me about all the problems

02:18:57.989 --> 02:19:01.829
in my life, and, yeah, why wouldn't he be very

02:19:01.829 --> 02:19:04.010
sexually attractive to all of them? Mm -hmm.

02:19:04.670 --> 02:19:08.590
But anyway, man, we should probably start to

02:19:08.590 --> 02:19:12.420
wrap this thing up. going on a little while here

02:19:12.420 --> 02:19:17.219
but yeah got any uh anything else to say about

02:19:17.219 --> 02:19:22.319
red rocket maybe but at this at this point probably

02:19:22.319 --> 02:19:26.100
should just wrap it up and i think i think we

02:19:26.100 --> 02:19:30.040
made some fun connections and talked about the

02:19:30.040 --> 02:19:32.680
movies themselves into themselves in a way that

02:19:32.680 --> 02:19:37.879
was revealing at least to me so as always thank

02:19:37.879 --> 02:19:41.840
you definitely very connected But I don't know.

02:19:41.899 --> 02:19:44.920
Would you say that's that, Magus Man? That's

02:19:44.920 --> 02:19:45.719
that. That's that.