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Hi and welcome to Be The Flagship with our podcast host Jeff Parsons.

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This is where we tackle the day-to-day talent management challenges you face.

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And now over to our host.

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Take it away, Jeff.

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Well, hello and welcome to Be The Flagship.

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I'm your host Jeff Parsons and this is where we explore all things operations.

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So if you're an operational leader, this podcast is for you.

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And this is episode two of the series called HR and Operations.

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And so joining us again this week is guest speaker Anthony Pantaleon from Telexis.

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So thank you Anthony again for joining us today.

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And why don't we start by allowing you to tell our listeners how they can reach you

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should they have any questions about anything we cover in this podcast.

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Oh sure.

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Well thank you very much for the introduction Jeff and thank you for this opportunity to

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be a part of your podcast.

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I know everyone's on LinkedIn so just looking for Anthony Pantaleon.

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There aren't too many people with Pantaleon on LinkedIn so I think you'll find me pretty

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easily.

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Well again, thanks Anthony.

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I really appreciate your contribution to thought leadership in the area of operations and operational

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success.

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So you know our goal is to provide thought leadership for operations leaders and listeners

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and so that they can drive up organizational effectiveness, achieve organizational excellence

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which drives business success because at the end of the day everyone within the organization

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no matter what their role should be in lockstep to achieve that goal.

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And that's through your processes, it's through your systems, it's through your equipment

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and the heart of that organization would be your people.

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One of the common things I hear is that I won't accede at the table.

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I'm discouraged because they just think that I do payroll, they just think that I take

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care of benefits you know and I want a seat at the table.

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And part of the challenge in getting that seat at the table is being perceived by the

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executive team of that you're bringing true value to the organization.

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Not that payroll doesn't bring value or benefits administration doesn't bring value but that's

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very transactional in nature.

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You can train just about anybody to push a button in you know in ADP or one of those

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other systems and do payroll or take care of benefits and sign someone up for benefits.

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It doesn't take a high degree of HR expertise and that's why it's oftentimes outsourced

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right because it's very transactional in nature.

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So the real values in the gray area you know and as it relates to people and you know I've

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always and when I've mentored and coached HR people you know one of the first things

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I tell them is there are basically two types of HR people in the world you know very simple

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just two types.

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Their business partners and their picnic planners you know the picnic planners are more concerned

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about the buzzwords of the day you know and being in line with what they see in SHRM in

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terms of the buzzwords of what we should be focused on today rather than focusing on the

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right thing to do for the business and contributing value to the business and coming to grips

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with what my role is in working with leadership to achieve business success that I have a

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role to play.

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Too many HR people oftentimes focus on the buzzword of the day you know what are we focusing

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on now you know and when at the end of the day it's all about talent.

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It's about the talent you're just within HR that gray area where you can bring the most

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value is ensuring that you bring the right talent into that organization to help operations

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achieve their goals and to drive business success.

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So at the end of the day Anthony it's all about talent and so in last week's episode

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episode one of HR and operations we spent time discussing the selection and hiring process

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and the onboarding process and how assessment can bring objective data to bear to help organizations

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make a better selection and hiring decision and hire the right talent as opposed to just

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good talent great talent we want the right talent to help us drive our business in the

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right direction to help us achieve our goals not become obstacles within the organization

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and so it's all about developing metrics and that's where HR can really brings value not

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by focusing on the fad of the day or the buzzwords of the day isn't about how can we contribute

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real value to the organization and thinking the way our business leaders think thinking

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in terms of data right and so we talked about that last week this week Anthony I want to

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focus on how we develop our leaders how we pull together a strategic staffing model but

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I want to start with the idea of change and that we're changing the mindset of our operational

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leaders when we talk about becoming more data driven so let's focus on change management

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to begin. It's interesting on occasion you'll run into managers who are a bit resistant

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to a different way of looking at selection and hiring and onboarding you know and so

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there is a change management or change leadership component to implementing a strategic you

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know staffing model is looking at it being willing to look at it from a different perspective

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and you know and really comparing it to your business strategic plan because it drives

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your goals and everything else that you know through your business and creates a dashboard

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of metrics so why couldn't you do that in HR as well right and so sometimes they're

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resistant to change but it's interesting to think of that and then look at the you know

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the latest Gallup research where they said you know that 75% of all managers admit that

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they've made a bad hiring decision so it's like okay you know at least 75% of the managers

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were honest. The other 25% not sure but you know if you don't have a baseline measurement

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to gauge you know organizational and I'll use a bad term at HR fit you know people misconstrue

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the words fit but it's determining the right talent at that moment in time in your business

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to drive that business forward and to help you achieve the goals that you want to achieve

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and provide you potential growth and you know help you create a talent pipeline within your

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organization which feeds into you know performance management, succession planning and those

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types of things as well.

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You know Jeff I mean you know we as leaders we want to be confident and that's very important

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you know we all need to have that strong base of confidence and we need to keep stacking

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wins to build that confidence and that's what we strive to do every day you know as leaders

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in organizations and that's wonderful but we also have to do in my opinion is we also

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have to be humble and knowing we need help and right so believing that you know you're

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a great interviewer and you know you can make great decisions without objective data that's

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an area that you know I believe in this day and age where the stakes are so high to get

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it right the first time. A lot of leaders they're not using data in their decision making

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process stage they should consider it because it will confirm your instincts and we all

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as leaders need that confirmation and then once we have that then we can continue to

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build off of that confirmed decision and make it a great decision because then what happens

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after the hiring decision is once again up to the leader and the organization to retain

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that person so it's not just about hiring the right person you know the first time but

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it's also about retaining them creating the right environment the right engagement throughout

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your relationship. Yeah so they'll grow and continue to contribute to organization perhaps

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at a higher level. Exactly. And most you know when you interview a job candidate you're

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seeing that candidate at their best right unless they fail the IQ test you know you're

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seeing them at their best behavior right. Yes. They want a job right and that's where

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a lot of bad hiring decisions come into play and you'll hear this it reminds me of you

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know when you have these horrific stories you know the you know someone who a next door

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neighbor who does something horrific and the neighbor says you know they were I've just

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never thought they'd do anything like that you know you have the same thing in HR unfortunately

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you hire someone they interviewed wonderfully and then you know two months later you're

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scratching your head and saying did this person have a twin who interviewed and then he sent

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his other twin in to get you know do the job or this doesn't even seem like the same person

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we talked to you know and so that's just you know certainly a way to overcome that you

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know and to help them feel more comfortable with your hiring decision right. Yes and I

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see it a lot in working with companies Jeff and that is when you're able to use science

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in your decision making process and you're able to really like open up doors that ordinarily

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would be closed through a traditional method of interviewing so you're using the assessment

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to be more targeted with some of your questioning and you're able to really open up some opportunities

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for further clarification. This gives organizations the opportunity to look at how people reason

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so is a person reasoning defensively so hey this is who I am and then they're answering

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these questions in a defensive posture so that's a sign. That's right. Or are they reasoning

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productively and saying yes I recognize that trait in myself, I recognize that but here's

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what I do to manage it. Here's what I've learned through my career. So that is very telling

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and if you're not using an assessment to be able to go down that road and get to that

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granular level, it's gonna be really difficult to understand how that person operates, what

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their basis is. So are they a defensive reasoner, they're a productive reasoner because I've

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worked with people, I'm sure we all have, who they reason defensively and anytime something

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comes up where you know maybe like there was a mistake or misunderstanding, there's defensive

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reasoning, defensive reasoning versus being open and saying hey how can I learn from this?

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I did create an error here, I did do wrong, we don't like to say that, right? We hate

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it but it's really valuable when you can be humble and say hey I messed up here but I

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recognize that here's what I'm gonna do differently moving forward and then you move on.

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Well I think that's a great segue into you know the next topic of discussion and developing

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organizational leaders, right? And you know how important effective leadership is, it's

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immeasurable impact on employee retention and performance and you know that sort of

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thing. It's one thing that you get the right talent in the door but if you have poor leadership

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you know you probably have a poor culture and again you're gonna have a retention issue

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and what as an HR person again to add value you will to reduce your time to hire and your

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hiring costs providing a service that brings value to the organization and so developing

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your leaders is important as well and again you know in my experience leaders when they're

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hiring they tend to like people who quote-unquote look like them, right? You know and you know

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I'm successful so this person should be successful as well going back to your earlier comments

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about how complex people are but self-awareness is a huge part of developing as an individual

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and developing as a leader so talk to me about a better approach I guess for developing leaders.

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Sure, I'd love to and I love you know I love this topic because there's so many thought

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leaders there's so much great information on this topic and you know we see it every

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day whether it's social media you know whether we're reading great books about leaders you

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know everything great leaders do and you know I think it's really difficult to distill it

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down to just a few sentences or you know a paragraph or whatever but when I look at this

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and I work with organizations you know I embrace an approach it's called the upper echelons

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theory and basically that's just it's a fancy you know theory for looking at leaders and

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looking at leaders from a potential standpoint and a performance standpoint and I'm fortunate

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what we do at Telexis is we're able to help organizations measure potential so understanding

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how this individual is wired towards leadership a leadership type role and then we could also

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measure leadership performance real time and understand how this person is manifesting

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in their role and then what type of insights can we provide for course correction so it's

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extremely valuable and I love leaders who come to the table with an open mind and a

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positive attitude because you know that's like that's paramount you know that has to

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be the starting point because if our mind isn't open if we're not a growth minded individual

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then you know we're never going to benefit from this type of experience you know so if

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we have that box checked then everything else will fall into place.

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Yeah I mean I've utilized the 360 instrument multi-source feedback instrument to help create

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self-awareness in the past with the executives and doing executive coaching and their reactions

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oftentimes are defensive you know they give you reasons why they be you know that or they

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begin to say well I know who said that right.

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Worst case scenario you go on the vendetta right to so and that's worst case I have seen

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it and some get very emotional and crying you know but you get the real benefit from

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people who want to increase their level of self-awareness they want to know how people

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feel about them how they're perceived in the organization because you can't get better

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if you're not aware of the gaps right and so it's a matter of to your point they really

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need to be they need to understand the purpose of it and of the assessment and they need

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to understand what they can gain from it.

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So Jeff I pretty recently heard or I'm sorry I pretty recently read a statistic from Gartner

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and they said that 73% of HR leaders feel their leaders and managers aren't equipped

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to lead change.

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I would believe that yeah.

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And in this day and age in the marketplace and business we all have to be super adaptable

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and we need to be able to lead change in our organizations but it's in my opinion there's

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a lot to that you have to there's a lot to unpack when it comes to leading change and

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I would say you know based on you know our kind of conversation right now and our limited

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time that you know that's really about communication and having that empathy and understanding

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of your people how do people react to change and how you communicate that change to individuals

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and how do you help them with that change.

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So if we go through a process of some type of self-awareness and we're able to go through

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that process of self-awareness through an assessment that provides us with something

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tangible something objective then I believe that helps us improve self-efficacy.

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Okay.

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Right, so having self-awareness is one thing but having self-efficacy is another thing

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because then that's what we know what to do with it and when we know what to do with it

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then that's when we could make progress.

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So that would be I think a great example in terms of how you can use an assessment to

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provide data to provide baselines, it's tangible, it's concrete and then individuals can then

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really put some thought behind what they can do more of less of and begin doing differently

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to for example lead change.

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Okay.

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If that's an overarching theme of an organization then every result should be focused on how

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do I do that, what is my like playbook for doing that because I'm different than my peer.

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Right.

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So, if I understand self, I understand my people through an assessment process and I

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can be a very unique leader towards my team then I have that playbook for each person

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to help them cope and lead that change.

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Got it.

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Thanks Anthony and if you don't mind let's take a quick break.

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At Flagship Talent we work with our clients to find and place the right talent.

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What do we mean by the right talent?

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We mean we find talent who will commit to your organizational goals and align with your

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values and behavior expectations.

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Talent who will perform to your expectations.

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Talent who will stay and grow with your organization.

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How are we different from our competitors?

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We offer the lowest fee structure in the industry.

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We offer the best talent guarantee in the industry.

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We provide selection and interviewing support to our clients at no additional fee.

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We want to save you money, deliver high quality talent, become an extension of your organization

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and be your preferred provider of talent acquisition solutions.

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To learn more contact Jeff Parsons by email at jeff at FlagshipTalent.com or by phone

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at 1-800-530-4189 extension 101.

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Okay, we're back with Anthony Pantaleon from Tellexis.

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We're getting near the end of our time.

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I do have a question for you because there are some HR professionals who get nervous

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over assessments when they hear the word assessments, right?

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And what would you say to that listener who says, well, you know, assessments can get

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us into trouble.

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You know, I'm concerned about using assessments within our organization.

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What would be your words of wisdom for that person?

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Well, I've been doing this for 30 years so I'm biased.

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I'd like to provide an unbiased response and you know, we all as human beings have our

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own unconscious bias believe it or not and that factors into our decision making.

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So an assessment would help provide more objectivity in that whole decision making process.

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So it provides a common measuring device in an organization and it provides common language

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and a common point of reference so that we can take that unconscious bias out of the

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picture and have more accountability to each other because now if I'm involved in a hiring

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decision and I'm about to hire someone now, it's very subjective and the person really

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isn't going to be a great fit.

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And let's just say we have an assessment now that's part of that process where the assessment

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is going to tell us that this person doesn't have a good fit and this hiring manager wants

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to move forward, well, why?

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So now we can challenge that and that's okay, right?

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It's okay to have a constructive challenge in an organization and the assessment would

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help.

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So I would say that it's a real concern and it's a concern that you know, I hear a lot

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when I'm working with organizations and when you're using an assessment as part of a decision

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making process, not the part of a decision making process, it's actually recommended

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by the office of personnel management.

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So the government has a guidebook on assessments and they actually recommend using assessments

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because-

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I mean, they use assessments as well, right?

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Yes, exactly.

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And I was even talking with a government contractor yesterday and they were thrilled with using

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an assessment and working with me and us because they were able to write that into their bids

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so that they can win these contracts because they'll be more efficient in their project

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and the management of the funds that the government gives them.

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So yes, to your point, assessments are real, they've been around for a long time.

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You need to partner with the right company, the company that's gonna work with you.

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You need to have an assessment that they're gonna work for the organization and the application,

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needs to be accurate and reliable and if you check a lot of those boxes, then you shouldn't

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be able to use an assessment with a high degree of confidence and make sure that your team

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is using it correctly.

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So when we work with companies, we go to great lengths to work with the hiring managers in

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addition to HR so that the hiring managers are knowledgeable about how to use the assessment

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and they don't shy away from it, but they embrace it and they use it correctly.

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Right.

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Well, using it correctly is important.

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Number one, making sure the hiring managers are educated on how to interpret the assessment

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results and how it should be used and that sort of thing is important.

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The validity of the instrument is important.

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The concern oftentimes is, well, I don't want to be sued by someone who says, we've used

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an assessment to discriminate against that person based on some protected class.

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So the key thing is that the assessment is shown to be valid, that you can prove that

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it's valid and that it's a valid measure of success within your organization.

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That's really all you have to do, right?

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And the job profiles and those types of things you create as a part of this is job specific,

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right?

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And so you're assessing versus real world job expectations, job description expectations

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or whatever, but it's related specifically on that job.

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You're not like testing a person and saying they have to have a 12th grade level of English

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comprehension when all your procedures are written in fourth grade level.

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You're not doing that.

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What you're doing is really matching what is required for the business and with the

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candidate and how closely they fit with those expectations, right?

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And that's how you overcome the fear of going to be sued.

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You know, no, you look at the benefits over the risk and it's about showing that you're

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using it as a part of the hiring decision.

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As you said, not a pass fail and as the only thing for the hiring decision because there

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is complexity to it and that the instrument itself has proven to be valid and relates

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specifically to your job.

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That's the key.

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No matter where you live in the country, that's the key to it, right?

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Absolutely, Jeff.

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You really summarized it nicely.

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When you look at an assessment, you know, when I work with organizations, you know,

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we talk a lot about when you look at predicting success on the job, you can look at like

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samples of like how someone has exhibited a level of expertise, you know, level of competency

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to do the job and that a lot of times is difficult unless you go through like, you know, work

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simulations, you just don't have the time for that.

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Right.

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So, a lot of times a more efficient way of predicting success is to look for signs and

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that is what are the indicators of future success?

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So, what are those traits?

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What are those aptitudes?

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What are the interests or temperament of a person?

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How is that going to correlate with success?

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And that's where an assessment gives you those signs.

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Yeah, right.

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And it allows HR and the organization itself to focus not only on the current state of

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your business and the current needs of your business but again, the value add in earning

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that seat at the table is when the C-suite people see you as an actual contributor to

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their success and that you're as concerned with their future success as you are with

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being successful today and bringing the right folks and right talent will build that company,

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not just current state but would prepare them to meet their future challenges and things

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of that nature.

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That's why that's so important.

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So, for all the HR people, if you're on the earth, seat at the table, show value.

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And you know, we're very well said and I was just contacted about a week ago by someone

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that I used to do business with my previous assessment company and she's with a new company,

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I'm with a new company but she reached out to me because I was able to demonstrate how

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I was able to help her shine in her organization by using our assessments and that's always

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kind of come natural for me, Jeff, but being able to you know, partner with HR and to help

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them be successful by having these desired outcomes through the implementation of an

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assessment process, I mean, that's really the you know, what you're striving for.

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That's what you're working towards.

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That's right.

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So, having that kind of that right partner to work with you is really important.

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Yeah, I agree with you wholeheartedly, Anthony.

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And having said that, we're unfortunately at the end of our time but thank you again,

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Anthony, for your kind contribution, your thought leadership regarding how HR can become

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a more valued member of the organization and earn that seat at the table.

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So thanks again for joining us.

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Thank you, Anthony.

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I appreciate it.

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Can you tell us one more time of how people can find you?

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Sure.

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Pretty easy to find me on LinkedIn, Anthony Pantholeone.

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So that's pretty easy or my email is Anthony at telexis.com and that's T-A-L-E-X-E-S.com.

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So Anthony at telexis.com.

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So I told you Anthony was an expert.

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Thanks again, Anthony.

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Oh, my pleasure, Jeff.

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Thanks for having me.

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Hope to talk with you again soon.

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My pleasure.

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Thank you for listening to this episode of Be the Flagship with Jeff Parsons.

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We hope you enjoyed it.

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If you did like it, please subscribe and share with others.

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Until next time, take the step to become the flagship in your marketplace.