Hi and welcome to Be The Flagship with our podcast host Jeff Parsons.
This is where we tackle the day-to-day talent management challenges you face.
And now over to our host.
Take it away, Jeff.
Well, hello and welcome to Be The Flagship.
I'm your host Jeff Parsons and this is where we explore all things operations.
So if you're an operational leader, this podcast is for you.
We talk about operations specific topics and we also explore those areas of support to
operations.
We just completed a series called Finance and Operations.
It was eight episodes where we talked about finances role and finances impact on operations.
Today we begin a new series.
It's called HR and Operations, Human Resources and Operations where we explore HR's impact
on operations and how they can be a positive force in helping operations achieve organizational
excellence and business success.
And this first episode we're focusing on selection, hiring and development of your most important
resource in operations, your TAL.
And so joining us today is guest speaker Anthony Pantaleon.
I'll let Anthony introduce himself in just a second.
But again, thank you for joining us.
I hope you enjoyed this series and we'll turn it over to our guest speaker.
All right, so again with us today is Anthony Pantaleon.
I pronounced that right, right?
Correct?
You did.
Thank you, Joe.
You sound like Anthony all the time.
Right?
That's true.
Anthony is a good friend and he's also an expert in the area of assessments and talent
actually.
And the focus of this episode as a part of a series is HR's impact on operations and
specifically in the area or areas of talent.
And we'll get into those areas later.
But first, Anthony, why don't you introduce yourself?
Tell us, you know, what you do with TAL-X, your role and how people can get in touch
with you.
Should they have any questions after this?
Oh, sure.
Well, thank you very much for the introduction, Jeff.
And thank you for this opportunity to be a part of your podcast.
So you said that you consider me an expert and I appreciate that very much.
I actually don't consider myself an expert because I feel like I need to be a student
to constantly learn and grow.
And I think we're all growing, right?
And we all have to keep evolving, adapting and adapting to change.
So I appreciate that, that you consider me an expert as I still look to, you know, strive
to be that expert.
So I'm in constant growth mode.
But I've been in the assessment industry for my entire career now, which is spanning over
30 years.
And I actually, it was by accident that I got in the industry.
That wasn't my original intent, but I'm really grateful that I am in the industry because
I've been very passionate about what I do and how I help organizations add data to their
decision-making processes throughout the talent management framework.
And as far as contacting me, I guess the best place to find me and contact me would be on
LinkedIn.
I know everyone's on LinkedIn.
So I'm just looking for Anthony Panthleon, there aren't too many people with Panthleon
on LinkedIn.
So I think you'll find me pretty easily.
It sounds very Italian, Anthony.
Yes.
I bet your mom's a great cook.
She is.
And I've grown up with a preference towards pasta and carbohydrates, which I'm older,
I don't process them as well.
So I have to be very vigilant in my pasta choices.
I got you.
Oh, man.
Well, again, thanks, Anthony.
I really appreciate your contribution to thought leadership in the area of operations.
And in operational success.
So our goal is to provide thought leadership for operations leaders and listeners so that
they can drive organizational effectiveness, achieve organizational excellence, which drives
business success.
Because at the end of the day, everyone within the organization, no matter what their role,
would be in lockstep to achieve that goal, right?
And that's through your processes, it's through your systems, it's through your equipment.
And the heart of that organization would be your people.
And so in previous podcasts, we focused on finances role in supporting operations and
business success.
And today we begin a discussion about HR, human resources.
And their role in impacting operational excellence business success.
And in my 30 plus years of HR and global HR and connecting with a lot of HR professionals
all over the world, really, one of the common things I hear is that I won't accede at the
table.
I'm discouraged because they just think that I do payroll.
They just think that I take care of benefits, you know, and I want a seat at the table.
And part of the challenge in getting that seat at the table is being perceived by the
executive team of that you're bringing true value to the organization.
Not that payroll doesn't bring value or benefits administration doesn't bring value, but that's
very transactional in nature, right?
You can train just about anybody to push a button and then, you know, in ADP or one of
those other systems and do payroll or take care of benefits and sign someone up for benefits.
It doesn't take a high degree of HR expertise.
And that's why it's oftentimes outsourced, right?
Because it's very transactional in nature.
So the real values in the gray area, you know, and as it relates to people and, you know,
I've always and when I've mentored and coached HR people, you know, one of the first things
I tell them is there are basically two types of HR people in the world.
You know, very simple, just two types.
They're business partners and they're picnic planners.
You know, the picnic planners are more concerned about the buzzwords of the day, you know,
and being in line with what they see in SHRM in terms of the buzzwords of what we should
be focused on today rather than focusing on the right thing to do for the business and
contributing value to the business and coming to grips with what my role is in working with
leadership to achieve business success that I have a role to play.
So too many HR people oftentimes focus on the buzzword of the day, you know, what are
we focusing on now, you know, and when at the end of the day, it's all about town.
It's about the talent.
You're this within HR, that gray area where you can bring the most value is ensuring that
you bring the right talent into that organization to help operations achieve their goals and
to drive business success.
So if you want to be a seat, if you want to have a seat at the table, you need to be perceived
as that contributing to business success, not the social, you know, trends of the day.
And again, you do this by focusing on hiring and developing the right talent.
So you know, as opposed to great talent, you say, well, I bring in great talent.
Well, you might watch your turnover rate, right?
Is your great talent really aligned with your culture, your organizational goals?
Are they helping you drive business success or are there obstacles to business success?
Are they poisoning the well?
Are they toxic?
And in terms of the way they behave, no matter what their skill set is, no matter how impressive
their resume is, no matter how great they interviewed, you know, some people interview
really, really well and then they proceed almost immediately to poison the well, poison
the water within the culture, right?
And create chaos and become an obstacle as opposed to a driving force within your organization.
You want driving forces within your organization.
So you want to bring in right talent, not just the great talent.
And that's why I have Anthony here today to help us understand how you can do a better
job in determining what is the right talent.
You know, how do you define the right talent for your organization?
And then what is the process?
How can you do a better job of selection?
And we're going to start with selection and hiring.
We'll transition from that to onboarding and then how do you develop your leaders and then
look at talent from a more strategic model.
Is that work for you, Anthony?
Absolutely.
All right.
So let's talk about the selection and hiring process, Anthony.
What are your thoughts on basically what I've just said, you know, in terms of the right
talent versus great talent?
And then what are your thoughts on how to do a better job in selection and hiring?
Sure.
Well, thanks for really setting the stage for us, Jeff, and providing that kind of framework.
So when I work with HR leaders, you know, typically I like to find out a lot about how
we can align talent with strategy.
So organizational strategy is the guiding force that determines the kinds of employee
behaviors that are needed.
So we can start there and then understand how the organizational strategy then distills
down to business strategy and then functional strategy.
So the functional strategy then is all about the job.
So what people need to do in their job to execute.
So that's what really I believe helps any HR leader to build the business case for using
assessments in an organization and creating this value because you're taking something
that historically will is and will always be intangible.
People were complex beings.
And what an assessment does, a psychometric assessment will do, is it'll help you to take
something that's intangible and make it tangible so you have a measurement.
And we're all into data nowadays, right?
We have wearable devices.
I think almost everyone has some type of wearable.
I have a ring, I have a wristband, I'm tracking my sleep, I'm tracking my steps, heart rate,
all that stuff.
And unless you measure something, you can't manage it.
So now when I understand baselines, I can say, okay, so what happens if I do this to
improve my sleep or if I do this to improve my heart rate variability?
So it helps me to make improvements.
Well, now we can take that same context and apply it to people.
When we use a psychometric assessment, we now start to measure people and we have data
points, data points to make comparisons, data points to create starting points and end points
for trends, performance trends, turnover trends, things along those lines.
So what we typically do through the assessment process is we look to incorporate that into
a strategic recruitment model with the goal of improving the quality of the hire.
So that is, first of all, first you align with strategic goals.
So what are those goals?
And then how does that distill down to the behaviors that are needed for any particular
role in an organization?
And that's how we create value because when individuals operate above their job description
and they provide more value to their internal and external customers, then that's when you
start to have that multiplier effect in the organization.
So we want to align towards those strategic goals and distill those down.
We want to be able to quantify what superior performance looks like.
So in any particular role, when we either collaborate on that through a job description
or assessing people who are currently in the role, we can look at those differentiated
behaviors and then understand what they look like, quantify those and then they provide
us with a point of reference moving forward.
And then ultimately, in a strategic recruitment model, you want to be able to incorporate
a way to look at job fit and organizational fit as well.
So that type of framework requires the quantification of people, of candidates.
So when you're able to quantify, you can align to that framework and then that would really
yield the best end result, which is quality of hire.
Right.
So what you're saying is you start with the strategic staffing or recruiting model.
This is this and you do that through collaboration.
It's not just an HR role, but they have to collaborate with people who know what the
expectations are for a role and know what makes a person successful or causes them to
fail and that sort of thing.
And so you get that involved, you get them involved, we create these profiles, I suppose,
for position.
Correct.
And then when you have those, then you can use an assessment to that profile with the
job profiles for each job within your organization.
That becomes a baseline measurement, right?
So that you can compare to that baseline.
This is the baseline for this equipment operator or this nurse or this supervisor or whatever.
This is the baseline.
And then when you are looking for candidates, then you can compare those candidates.
If you're assessing the right things, you can compare those candidates to that baseline
and determine how closely they match.
Is that right?
That's exactly right, Jeff.
So typically, it's easier to understand the experience of someone, the hard skills based
on their certifications, their credentials, the degree they have.
But I always hear it here from working with organizations that their challenge is identifying
those attributes or soft skills.
And I kind of hear those terms interchangeably, but being able to align the attributes with
the job and the culture of the organization is really important because you might have
an individual and they might have a great pool of experience that fits the role.
But from an attribute standpoint, they may not because maybe they came from a bureaucratic
organization which was like command and control and now your organization is maybe more collaborative,
it's smaller, relies more on innovation.
And so therefore, there's a different attribute or set of attributes that are needed to operate
in this role.
So you can take that person who has the skill fit, but they don't necessarily have the soft
skill fit.
And that's a really important differentiator because then that person's really being set
up to fail because it's just a matter of time before that person has conflict and there
are derailers and there are friction points and that eventually every organization has
a tolerance level.
So eventually that tolerance level gives out and that's when it's an unfortunate event.
And I mean, typically, it's gonna take six months or more for a business to break even
on a new hire.
So if that tolerance level happens after six months, well, okay, so now you're in the black
of it.
But a lot of times it's gonna happen before six months.
Yeah.
I mean, there's some indicators out there that if you can retain an employee on your
hire for at least six months, then their probability of performance and retention and all that
increases quite significantly, right?
The thing what I hear is what I'm hearing you say is you really oftentimes we hire for
skills or what we perceive their skills to be when you should be hiring skills that should
get their foot in the door, but you're hiring for behaviors.
That's true.
Right?
Yes, absolutely.
And now, behaviors are oftentimes a bit complex as well because there's a lot that goes into
a behavior.
Right.
And as an example, so I always look at it as okay, so what goes into a behavior?
Well, core traits determine behaviors.
So if you have a certain set of core traits, there's gonna be a high likelihood that you'll
exhibit that behavior with consistency.
Their abilities influence behavior.
So you could have a set of core traits and then you have certain abilities that let's
say you gain through leadership development programs and self-discovery.
So then you self-manage some of those core traits.
So maybe the derailer traits or the traits that might create friction like we just talked
about, maybe you don't see that because that person has more of an introspective, so they're
more self-aware.
So that can come into play.
There's also different motivation levels.
There's internal, external motivation levels, so that can influence how you see behaviors
and also there are opportunities within organizations that people are privy to.
So that can also dictate what goes into behaviors.
But for the most part, when you're able to quantify the core traits and then put the
other factors you know, come to the side, you'd have a really good starting point of
understanding that if you're measuring, quantifying core traits and then aligning that with a
profile.
I see.
Okay.
How does that?
So we're talking about selection and hiring.
Once you get the new hire in the door, you know, you're going through the onboarding
process, right?
And so any suggestions, I see a lot of organizations, I've witnessed organizations where the onboarding
process is not effective.
And when I mean not effective, an onboarding process should be aimed at increasing employee
retention longer term and making sure they're aligned well with their job and they feel
a part of the team and culture and that sort of thing.
And oftentimes, organizations just do orientation, new hire orientation.
They bring them in, they show them where the bathrooms are, you know, they meet their new
boss and have it met them already, they're exposed to the policy manuals and all the
dos and the don'ts and then they're thrown in the 12-foot deep water and said, you know,
good luck, right?
And when that happens and it's just the orientation, I think organizations miss an opportunity.
They miss an opportunity to engage that employee early and often.
And again, the more engaged that employee feels, you know, six months out, you know,
the greater the performance and retention over time.
I'm just curious your thoughts on onboarding and how that relates to your staffing, your
strategic staffing plan and that sort of thing.
Jeff, you bring up a really good point and I think, you know, you set the stage earlier
when you talked about two types of HR leaders and, you know, I think this would be very
consistent with that when it comes to onboarding because onboarding can be very transactional,
you know, an orientation.
And delivering a manual and getting a signature for the manual and making sure, you know,
the new employee has an insight as far as like, you know, all the policies and procedures
and a tour of the facilities and all that.
That's great.
But I think anytime we look at people and when we look at ourselves as leaders, how
can we make it transformational?
How can we create value in our day-to-day interactions with people because then that
will represent us in the marketplace ultimately.
So to answer your question, you know, typically in the onboarding process, you know, I coach
my clients and I work with my clients to look at it as an ongoing process where, you know,
our hiring managers and HR are partnered with this process and then they're able to leverage
information from an assessment, a psychometric assessment and be able to leverage that through
the onboarding process so that the connection starts early, the relationship starts early
and it goes beyond the surface early.
So then you can set the stage for a really collaborative like evolving relationship down
the road.
So, you know, we always say, you know, we want to coach early and often and we feel
like when we're working with our clients, we can provide them with insights so that
they can begin to leverage the assessment information not only for selection but starting
with the onboarding process and then being able to leverage the information for coaching
at that stage and then beyond.
Okay.
Yeah, that's all good points.
Anthony, yeah, I have an interesting, I think it's interesting at least, but story around
onboarding.
My stepson, when he graduated college and we were on the West Coast, his first job,
well he corrected me every time I called it fast food.
He said, this is not fast food, this is serious, this is, you know, this is not McDonald's
or something like that but it was in the food industry, right, with a popular chain on the
West Coast.
And he came home after his first day on the job with a backpack that was full of books
that he was required to read, you know, manuals he was required to read, you know, assessments
he was required to take, you know, how to handle people.
I mean, I have never seen such a thorough onboarding process, I don't believe ever and
this is for a food chain on the West Coast.
They were serious when they hired employee, right?
They weren't just going to be flipping burgers or making sandwiches, they were going to make
a bigger connection with their customers.
And he learned a lot from that experience.
I mean, he's not there now but he moved on to bigger and better things but he learned
so much about working with people and, you know, about any and there was a leadership
component to it.
But it was just, you know, the company was investing because, you know, they franchise,
they have a lot of employees so just imagine how much money they were investing in the
onboarding of those employees, right?
It was very impressive for an old HR guy like me.
I was full boarded, I was really impressed but so onboarding is important.
It increases what gives you the opportunity to connect with that employee and you never
want to dismiss opportunities or connection points with your...
Yes, and you know, one client success story comes to my mind where we actually help them
leverage assessment data, not only for selection but also, you know, early in the onboarding
process and they improve their average tenure by 324%.
Oh my goodness.
You know, huge, right?
Huge, huge cost savings, you know, it meant a lot to the business operation and, you know,
we did this by not only giving them reliable, accurate data to use for selection and make
good hiring decisions but then to also help managers, the hiring managers be better coaches
to these individuals.
So understanding their learning style, understanding their attributes and being able to, you know,
work with the individual in a more unique way versus a generalized way.
So that, in my opinion, that became a real eye opener for the leadership in this company
whether it was, you know, HR, hiring managers, you know, the entire leadership team because
they were able to be better equipped in their role as leaders because now they had another
tool in their toolkit, another approach to leverage and become, you know, the best leaders
they could be.
Yeah.
So, Anthony, let's take a quick break and we'll come back and we will wrap up this episode.
At Flagship Talent, we work with our clients to find and place the right talent.
What do we mean by the right talent?
We mean we find talent who will commit to your organizational goals and align with your
values and behavior expectations, talent who will perform to your expectations, talent
who will stay and grow with your organization.
How are we different from our competitors?
We offer the lowest fee structure in the industry.
We offer the best talent guarantee in the industry.
We provide selection and interviewing support to our clients at no additional fee.
We want to save you money, deliver high quality talent, become an extension of your organization
and be your preferred provider of talent acquisition solutions.
To learn more, contact Jeff Parsons by email at jeff at FlagshipTalent.com or by phone
at 1-800-530-4189, extension 101.
Okay, we're back with Anthony Pantaleon and Anthony, we're at the end of our discussion
today.
It's been a great discussion, but what I'd like to do next week in our next episode is
talk about the mindset of change that's required in order to get better, in order to be more
effective regarding talent collection, hiring, development, all that stuff.
Because it does require a different thought process and a different mindset, if you will.
But I'd like to embark on that discussion next episode and I'd also like to build on
that and what that means in terms of developing your leadership team and what that means in
terms of how to look at talent from a much more strategic perspective.
But thanks again today, Anthony, it's been a great contribution.
I look forward to our discussion again next week.
But before we go, Anthony, why don't you tell our listeners one more time how they can find
you?
Sure.
Pretty easy to find me on LinkedIn, Anthony Pantaleon.
So that's pretty easy or my email is Anthony at telexis.com and that's T-A-L-E-X-E-S.com.
So Anthony at telexis.com.
Okay.
So I told you Anthony was an expert.
Thanks again, Anthony.
Oh, my pleasure, Jeff.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you for listening to this episode of Be the Flagship with Jeff Parsons.
We hope you enjoyed it.
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Until next time, take the step to become the flagship in your marketplace.