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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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Well hello everyone.

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.

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I'm your host Toyosi Onwuemene, and it's just an absolute pleasure, absolute pleasure to

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be talking with you today.

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Thank you so much for listening.

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I'm excited to bring you today's episode about the benefits of career development activities

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outside your institution.

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I believe I've done an episode that's a little bit similar in the past, but I want to focus

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today specifically on the AAMC mid-career faculty meeting.

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Now some of you may say, I'm not mid-career, this must not apply to me, but I want to tell

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you that I also attended the AAMC early career faculty career development event when they

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did that early.

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Oh gosh, it's been about eight years or more since I attended.

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So I am speaking from the perspective of both the early career and the mid-career.

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So I want you to understand that this is not necessarily focused on mid-career.

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So I hope you'll stay with me throughout the period of this particular episode, because

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I think that what I have to say will apply to you.

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Okay.

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So I will say that if your institution is a member of the AAMC, then you're probably

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always getting things in your email inbox about what the AAMC is doing.

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However, if you are not, you can simply go to the AAMC website and search for career

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development activities.

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And you'll find out that they have a series of they do.

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They have ones that are targeted towards underrepresented minorities.

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They have ones that are targeted towards women.

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There have ones that are open to everyone.

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And in the current climate of whether it's okay to support equity and diversity efforts,

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I think it is still important for us to acknowledge that women have different experiences in the

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academy and people who are underrepresented have different experiences in the academy,

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because the academy is not explicitly set up to support women and their needs or underrepresented

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faculty and their needs.

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And so I love that AAMC is still very focused on meeting the needs of faculty at different

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points in their career.

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And I will say that however you identify and whatever group of people will support you

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in your career development, AAMC likely has a program that will help you.

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All right.

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Let's talk about why this is a program that would benefit you.

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Number one is that the AAMC program, and I don't want to focus on still on AAMC program,

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but I will, is that they understand faculty and their needs.

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Now what does this mean?

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Well, the AAMC stands for the American Association of Medical Colleges.

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I think that's what it means.

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Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what it stands for.

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And that means that they kind of are concerned with the needs of academic institutions offering

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medical services all over the country, all over the United States.

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And so they are thinking about how do we develop the workforce?

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How do we meet the needs of the American population in terms of healthcare needs?

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And so they're interested in developing faculty.

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They're interested in making sure that faculty have longevity within the academy.

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They're interested that the diversity of the clinician workforce matches the diversity

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of the American population.

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And so it benefits AAMC when faculty succeed.

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And it especially benefits AAMC when faculty are diverse because institutions do well.

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Institutions do well when we have representation of men and women and people who are from every

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race and ethnicity and in different experiences.

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And so I think that the first thing is to recognize that AAMC wins when institutions

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do well.

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And so many of these programs are really focused on helping faculty do well.

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And so they can meet your needs in a way that you may not get going to a career development

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program that's not necessarily specifically targeted toward academic medical faculty.

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As physicians, we can benefit from career development activities that are across the

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spectrum.

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So it doesn't have to be just for academic faculty.

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But I do think that the needs and the desires and the climate of academic medicine is different

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enough that it's important to be able to target the program that's specifically focused to

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your needs as an academic faculty member.

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So I think the first thing I'm saying is that AAMC is concerned with academic faculty and

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they're able to support you in a way that a program that's not necessarily targeted

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toward academic faculty may not.

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They're able to support you differentially.

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So recognize that that is a huge strength.

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So that's number one.

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Number two, number two is a little bit more generic and not necessarily specific to the

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AAMC.

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It's like it is always helpful when you want to really think about your career and how

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you move forward to get away.

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And so interestingly, one of our faculty members who's attending is just from across the street.

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So we're in DC for this meeting and this faculty member is a faculty member at the University

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of Maryland.

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So clearly, University of Maryland is not in DC, but it's close enough.

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And so this person is driving away to be part of this experience.

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However, what this person is doing is staying at the conference hotel.

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So actually we're meeting at the AAMC building, but we're in a hotel that's about maybe a

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30 minute walk from the venue.

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And there is value to leaving your daily life, your home activities and being away for a

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number of days, just focused on your career.

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What are my strengths?

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What are the gaps?

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What are the things I still need to do?

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How should I be thinking about my next steps?

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And so the whole idea of breaking away from your usual activities to think about you,

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to think about your career is so powerful.

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And I want to say that if you have such an opportunity, and again, I'm very specific,

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this is an external opportunity and it's really important that it's external.

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And actually that may be number three.

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So let me hold that for just a moment.

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But I want to say that the importance of breaking away from your routine activities to come

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to a place where you are just super laser focused on your career development is so powerful

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and it's so important.

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And I want you to consider how this, it may be helpful if you've not done this before,

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if you've not done this recently, for you to take that time away.

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Now many faculty members are having to do it differently.

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We have one faculty member who's here with her baby and her mom.

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We have another faculty member who's here with her husband and her children.

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You got to make it work the way you can make it work.

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We're all at different phases in our lives, but don't say, I just had a baby, I can't

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come.

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Don't say, oh my gosh, the kids won't do okay without me.

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Don't say I don't have time on my schedule.

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You got to create the time.

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And opportunities like this give you an excuse to say, hey, this is an opportunity to grow

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in my career.

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You want me to grow.

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You want me to be the best faculty member ever.

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Absolutely get me this opportunity.

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Or I'm taking this opportunity because no one's giving you anything.

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You're taking it because it helps you grow and it helps your institution as well.

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So that's number two.

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The real power of taking time away and being in a place that's just dedicated to helping

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you grow as a faculty member.

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That's number two.

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Number three is the importance of the fact that it's external to your institution.

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That is so powerful.

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Now I bet your institution has many great career development programs that I hope you've

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taken advantage of or you're going to take advantage of and that's great.

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But here's the thing, your institution is your institution and you guys kind of think

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alike and I'm not saying that you all have the exact same thoughts as really your institution,

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but I'm just saying there is an institutional culture that you grow into.

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And the longer you've been at your institution, the longer the culture is part of who you

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are.

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It's like the older fish that was passing by and talking to the younger fish and asked,

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how is the water?

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And the younger fish are like, what water?

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Because it just is so pervasive.

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You just take things for granted that really are part of your institutional culture that

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may not translate.

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And I want to say it is so important to meet the environment of your institutional culture

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and all the career development programs that to some extent are embedded in your institutional

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culture to go elsewhere and do something and interact with people who are not part of that

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culture.

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Because here's the thing about academic medicine.

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If you're going to succeed as a faculty member, you need to be able to succeed as a faculty

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member who would succeed at your institution with its unique requirements and at another

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institution because you may not be at your institution forever.

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And if that's the case, why would you put all your eggs in one basket where you're like,

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well, as long as I meet the requirements of my institution, I'm fine.

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The reality is that you need to be marketable at other institutions as well, not just yours.

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And you may stay at your institution forever and ever, amen.

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But if there's any chance, if there's the possibility that a move might take you somewhere

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or a leadership role might help you advance in your career in one way or the other, you

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do want to make sure that you have an outside perspective.

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The outside perspective is so powerful.

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And so again, I want to say that if you have very large programs at your institution, definitely

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take advantage of them.

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I bet they're great.

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And it's important also to step outside of your institution, to step outside of your

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institutional culture, to get what usually is an unbiased and un-conflicted view of your

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academic growth.

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For someone to look and say, well, how come you don't have as many publications?

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This is an example.

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We definitely know what we're doing here.

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But let's say someone looks at your CV and they're like, oh, I see that you have a lot

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of book chapters and you don't have as many publications in period of new journals.

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What's happening?

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And you might be like, oh, at my institution, they're fine with us.

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As long as they're publishing one or two book chapters a month, they're fine because I'm

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on the clinician track.

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And somebody will say, great that you're on the clinician track and this works at your

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institution.

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But if you're thinking that you might want to move, here is how you can expand your portfolio.

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And so they can give you a different perspective than you would get at your institution.

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Okay?

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And that's number three.

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Number four is that it is safer.

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I laugh because now I'm conjuring up pictures of the dangerous atmosphere of your environment.

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What I'm saying is that there's psychological safety in these kinds of meetings.

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Most faculty are not from your institution.

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And even if they are, they're probably not from the same department as you.

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And you come to a place where you can be frank about the challenges you're experiencing.

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And there is not anybody who's not experiencing challenges.

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It's just challenges are a way of life.

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Challenges are part of a faculty member's experience.

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So everyone is experiencing a challenge.

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Everyone's experiencing a challenge.

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And you come and you can feel safe to talk about your challenges.

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People are likely still going to be anonymous about what they're reporting.

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They're not going to hang out their institutions to dry.

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If they did that, they probably wouldn't still be there.

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But it's an opportunity to say, hey, this is the problem I'm having with a prominent

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faculty member at my institution.

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And nobody knows who you're talking about.

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Most people, it's not that they don't care.

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It's just that what's important for them is you, not that faculty member.

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So at your institution, other people may be so vested in protecting the reputation of

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that particular person you may be having challenges with.

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They don't see enough to think about how do they support you when you're in a situation

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where you're outside of your institution and you're getting help that you need.

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Then the people can answer the question of, OK, what do you need out of this?

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How can I support you?

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Let's not think about the person who's not here.

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Let's think about you.

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And so it is so important.

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It is so powerful to be outside of your institution, to have a place of psychological safety where

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you can talk about your career at the internet.

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OK.

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The next thing, and I think we're at number five, is that you get access to faculty who

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are senior or not at your institution.

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Why is that important?

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It's important because the perspective of people who've been where you are is so powerful

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and so important.

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You get to hear their stories.

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You get to hear how they built their careers.

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You get to hear how they made it work.

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It's hard to know how to move forward in medicine.

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Everybody comes and they ask you, what's your five-year plan?

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What's your 10-year plan?

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Some of us don't have a five-year plan.

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We don't have a 10-year plan.

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Or we know that whatever five or 10-year plan we're saying is going to change because our

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lives and our needs are changing.

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For example, my children are 10 and 12.

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And in five or in 10 years, gosh, they'll be in college.

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And if they're in college or out of college, I'm going to have a different perspective

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or a different view of how my career moves forward compared to where I am today.

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And so the 10-year plan really I could make now in light of, oh gosh, they won't be whole.

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But likely I'm going to be a different person thinking about how to move my career forward

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differently at that time.

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It's hard for me to think about it now.

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But it is helpful for me to see how people have done their careers.

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And what I'm seeing as people are talking about their careers and their career choices

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and the moves that they've made is that people are taking, they're preparing, they're creating

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a core foundation of what it means to be an academic faculty member.

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And then opportunities are showing up that they are leveraging.

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Yes, opportunities are showing up that they are leveraging.

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And that's one of the powers of being at such an event like this, because you get to see

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other people in the way they've crafted their careers.

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At your institution, the senior people are hard to reach.

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They're so busy.

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And to be honest, the faculty who are at this program are also hard to reach.

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But you know what?

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They are faculty for this event.

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They've taken time out of their schedules to be here for you.

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So you get to talk to them.

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You get to ask them questions.

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You get to show up and interact with them in a way that you might not be able to interact

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with them, even if they were faculty members at your own institution.

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So it is a powerful experience.

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And it's a great opportunity for you to access faculty members who are not at your institutions,

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who can really help you focus on your career development, because they can help you understand

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decisions that they've made.

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And you are a perfectly capable person.

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But it's also helpful to see how people make decisions that may help you think about how

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you're making decisions for where you are at your career stage.

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Okay.

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And then number six is that, wow, you learned things that you didn't know before.

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And you know, it used to happen to me more often.

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It happens to be less often now.

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But somebody made a statement yesterday that just crystallizes this particular point.

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She said, I get angry when I think that nobody told me this until this time.

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Yes, that used to be me.

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I would get so mad.

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I will say, why are people hiding this information from me?

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Why is it that nobody told me?

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People are not trying to hide information from you.

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It's just the kinds of conversations you're having at your institution are not likely

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to uncover the things that you don't know unless it is intentionally focused on your

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career development.

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And the challenge is that even when you have mentors who are senior, there's a lot of your

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conversation is very focused on your day to day.

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Okay, have you published that paper?

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What is going on with these revisions?

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How about this project that we're working on?

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What are you doing with regards to XYZ?

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Right.

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You're very focused in the minutia.

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And when you come to a career development conference like this, people take a step back

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and they tell you the big picture because they're not focused on the minutia.

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And so you get to hear information about the long term, big picture thinking that frankly

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doesn't often happen on our campuses.

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And so I did used to get angry at my mentors and I would say, how come no one's told me

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this?

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How is it that I've been busy doing all the stuff I'm supposed to be doing, but I'm not

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really advancing my career in XYZ way?

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And that's the feeling that a lot of people get.

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How I've stopped having that feeling now when I go to these career development events is

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I do a lot of them.

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I realize that there is power in being at different venues where people can speak about

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your career or speak into your career differently.

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And so I make a practice of being at these external opportunities of attending as many

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as possible because I recognize that I may not get it from faculty in my institution.

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No, it's usually not necessarily a matter of bias.

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It's not necessarily a matter of discrimination.

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It's just a matter of the way things work.

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It's like, for example, I have young children and I'll tell them something and they're

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like, yeah, I don't know about that.

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And they'll go somewhere else and someone will tell them the exact same thing.

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And they'll say, oh my gosh, that's amazing.

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And I'll say, but I told you this before, right?

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And that's happened to me.

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Recently, it happened to me with my sister who's a CPA and she gave me some tax advice

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and I was like, oh yeah, that's really great.

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Then I went somewhere else and gave me the exact same tax advice and I came back to her

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and I said, oh my gosh, I had no idea about this.

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I thought I pretty sure I told you about this.

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And so it's also that sometimes people have told us, but we hear things differently.

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And sometimes we need the expert from out of town to say it in a way that really connects

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with us and resonates with us where we finally get it.

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And so I want to say that repetition is the month there of all learning.

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And so it is powerful when you go outside your institution and somebody said something,

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even if you've heard it at your institution, it solidifies it as something important that

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you should pay attention to.

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And so point number six is that you learn things that you may otherwise not learn just

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staying within your institution.

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It's finally number seven is that you get to develop your network of sponsors, mentors

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and coaches.

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I tell you, a faculty who come to these things are invested in you succeeding.

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They are.

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I mean, honestly, faculty or senior faculty, the time of their seniority, they're looking

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to leave a legacy.

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They're looking to help people come forward.

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They recognize all the challenges they've been through and they want other people to

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succeed.

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They're legacy known, but they're overwhelmed and they don't know who to help.

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And they're getting emails from all over the place or people saying, oh, help me do this

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or anything.

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But when they're in a room with a dedicated group of faculty that they get to interact

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in one on one, it's easier to connect with those people and say, hey, I want to help

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someone.

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You're here.

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I've met you now.

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How can I help you?

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And so it's an opportunity for you to grow your network and not just networking with

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the faculty or the senior faculty that are that are teaching as part of the program,

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but also with your peers who are at similar life stages and can say, hey, well, you can

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give talking at my institution about X, Y, Z.

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So it is a great opportunity to grow your network in general, but very specifically

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to grow your network with sponsors and mentors and coaches.

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And so those are the things that are really important in terms of attending things that

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are outside of your institution and specifically the double AMC series of offerings.

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I need to tell you that it's not free.

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And it shouldn't be right.

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People are providing a service.

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Faculty need to be paid.

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Rooms need to be secured.

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Food needs to be bought.

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None of this is free.

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And so recognize that there is an investment.

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And I want to say that you are someone who should make a habit of investing in yourself.

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Don't say this is too expensive.

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I can't show up.

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No.

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Ask.

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You know what?

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You can afford it personally because you can't afford not to afford it.

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But if finances are a challenge, you can ask at your institution and someone can help you.

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Someone can help you in terms of supporting your participation.

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And I'd love to talk about how you can make the ask.

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And I'll probably record a podcast episode.

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My next podcast episode will be about how can you make that ask for funding that will

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support your career development.

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So until that time, I look forward to speaking with you again next time on the Clinician

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Researcher Podcast.

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Thank you for watching and for listening.

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Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic

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clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

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have a mentor.

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If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

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Someone else needs to hear it.

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So take a minute right now and share it.

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As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

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of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.