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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.

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I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is an absolute pleasure to be talking with you

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today.

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Thank you so much for tuning in.

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Today, I am talking about the grant kickoff meeting, how to conduct it.

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Now last time I shared with you the importance of doing a grant kickoff meeting, and some

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of you were wondering about how you would do it in the first place.

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And so I'm here to share my experience.

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Again, this is just the one grant kickoff meeting I've done.

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I've had other meetings that were not kickoff meetings, so this is the one meeting that

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really stood out in my mind.

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So I'm just going to tell you the process of what we did.

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And I just want to say that there is not one size fits all strategy to doing a grant kickoff

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meeting.

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You should definitely tailor it to what are the needs of your team and the availability

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of your team members, but I'm going to lay out what we did because I think it was a really

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great experience and I want you to remember that I'm not setting a prescription.

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And so I want you to think about how you can tailor it to yourself.

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Okay.

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So the first thing to do is to set the agenda.

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And this is the PI or the PIs, or maybe it's the leadership team setting the agenda for

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the meeting.

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Why are you all meeting?

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Yes, it's the kickoff.

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We're all celebrating that this grant was funded.

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Good for you, but why are you meeting?

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There are many different reasons to meet in the course of completing your project.

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And they don't all have to be about the kickoff.

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For example, when our grant was first funded, actually, we had been meeting before the grant

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was funded, when we thought that the grant was definitely going to be funded, we already

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set up a whole list of leadership meetings.

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And so as the PIs of the project, we wanted to continue to have conversations so that

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we can address issues and be clear about what direction we were setting for the team.

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And then we also wanted to have meetings with the individual members of the team.

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To be honest, we struggled in the beginning to have a clear sense of what the meeting

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structure would be like.

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For example, there are two teams, actually, really two major teams involved.

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One team is the health measurement team, the other is a clinical research team.

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And we were needing to think about, well, okay, so the health measurement team is going

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to be meeting on their own.

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The clinical research team is going to be meeting on their own, and the leaders are

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going to be meeting on their own.

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But we want to also decrease the burden of meetings so that one person is not going to

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three meetings a week in support of one project because everybody else has work to do.

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And so we really had to establish what is the cadence of meetings we want for this project?

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When do we bring everybody together?

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When do we have people meet individually to address different issues?

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And when do we have a core leadership team meet?

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And so we have to establish who's the core leadership team.

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So clearly, we're the PIs, we're leadership, but we need people to support our leadership.

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So we have a core leadership team that includes the PIs and includes our regulatory coordinator

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and also our lead clinical research coordinator.

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And that is the core leadership team.

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Now as PIs, we're still meeting and we're making decisions for the project because we

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are ultimately responsible, but we have a leadership team that helps us.

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So in deciding, there are many meetings you could be having, but in deciding the kickoff

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meeting, you want to be clear about what it is you want to do with this kickoff meeting.

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Now, if you missed my last episode, I talked about why you should have a kickoff meeting.

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Go back and look at that and the importance and the benefits of having a kickoff meeting.

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But you want to be clear, first of all, about the purpose of the meeting.

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And that's why number one is set the agenda.

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Be clear.

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Why are you meeting again?

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What do you want to accomplish?

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And what you want to accomplish from the meeting determines how you set up the meeting, who

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you invite to the meeting, when the meeting should be scheduled, how hard you should work

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to get everybody in the room.

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Because the larger the group, the harder it may be to be able to find a mutually available

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meeting time.

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And so the agenda helps you clarify what you're doing, where you're going, and who needs to

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be there.

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So number one is to get the PIs together, or maybe it's a leadership team together,

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to set the agenda for the kickoff meeting, what you want to accomplish.

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All right, that's number one.

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Number two is to gather the people.

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Now, this is like herding cats, because we're busy people.

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There is nobody, nobody, no matter their job description, who works at an academic medical

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center or any job for that matter, who would say, oh, I have all the time in the world.

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Just let me know, and I can show up.

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There are a few people who have that kind of flexibility.

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Many people are in meetings.

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Or if you are doing the right habits as a clinician researcher, you should be in meetings

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with yourself doing some serious writing, or forecasting, or planning, or doing something

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that moves your research forward.

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So even if you look at your schedule, you gloriously have Mondays through Fridays from

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8 a.m. to 10 a.m. free.

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You are not free.

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You should be moving your work forward.

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And sometimes this happens when people are new at early career, and they're like, well,

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I only have 25% of a clinic.

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I have so much free time.

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You do not.

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You do not.

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And if you have so much free time, that means that you may not have a strategic plan, and

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you may not be doing a weekly planning meeting.

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Because when you start to be clear about what your strategic plan is, or what you're planning

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to do strategically, and you have a weekly planning meeting, you know that you are going

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to fill in slots for your writing on a weekly basis.

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So the point I'm making is that everyone's busy, and they have priorities, and you certainly

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are very busy.

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And so one person is designated to figure out the schedules.

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One person that's not you, okay, can I just pause and say you are awesome and amazing

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as an MD, or you're an MD PhD, or you have another physician degree, but you're really

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good.

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And if you think you can do it well, you can gather people in a meeting.

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You can do the doodle poll.

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You can see what's the best meeting time.

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It's like, oh, it doesn't even take me time.

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But I have to tell you that your job as leader of a research program is not to be scheduling

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meetings.

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And you might say, I don't have a physical assistant.

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I don't have a virtual assistant.

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I don't have an admin who can help me do that.

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Therefore, I'm on the hook.

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Please don't do it.

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People on your research team, even if they're an LP administrator assistant, can help you

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do the scheduling.

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Because scheduling can be a rabbit trail.

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They can take you down the rabbit hole and waste time that you really could be putting

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into moving the project forward or doing some writing or doing some research or writing

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a grant.

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You have many priorities, and scheduling meetings should not be one of them.

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And I know it's easy for you to just pull together a doodle poll and then send it out

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to everyone.

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But invariably, someone's going to say, oh, yes, I know that we had found that perfect

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time on Sunday morning, and now I am X, Y, Z. And then it unravels everything.

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You have to start over.

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And so what you want to do, maybe one of the first things you want to do, is to set a habit

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of delegating whatever can be delegated.

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And scheduling meetings is something that should be delegated.

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It is easy to just pop in the meeting yourself, and I'm not saying you should deli it all

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meeting scheduling.

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If you can, please do.

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I certainly struggle with that sometimes.

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But when it comes to scheduling this kind of meeting, you want somebody on the team

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who's designated to figure out everybody's schedules and make it work.

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It is a lot of work, especially if you have people who are as productive and as busy as

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you probably do.

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It's a lot of work to get the meeting scheduled at the right time.

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And so I ask you to have somebody else do it, because there's a lot of back and forth.

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And honestly, we had a team member who did this.

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And after the fact, we realized that there was one of the investigators who eventually

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was like, this is so hard.

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I'm just going to put it right in the middle of my clinic.

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He was in clinic.

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We had our meeting.

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I'm so glad I wasn't the one who scheduled the meeting, because I wouldn't have accepted

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that.

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I would have said, no, we can't do it when you're in clinic.

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Okay, let's try to find another time.

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And not with waste time.

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So there are people whose expertise is scheduling.

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Please let them schedule the meeting.

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Let them gather the people, figure out the right times, schedule the meeting.

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You just want to make sure you give them the best times that you're available.

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Okay?

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All right, so number two, gather the people and have somebody else that's not you.

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That's not the other PI.

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Do it.

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Number three, now that you set the agenda, now that you decided on the date, have the

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core leadership team meet, and the core leadership team is important because everyone wants to

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be sure that their perspective is going to be addressed.

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For example, it's like, what is the most important thing to address?

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And what are the things we lead out?

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So we had a number of things that we needed to address for this multi-site study, but

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we didn't do all of it in that one meeting because we decided that this might be too

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much for the first meeting.

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Right?

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So we focused on connection and alignment and clarifying the timeline and roles and responsibilities.

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That's already a lot.

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Let's focus and let's not bring in the SOP at this point because we have an SOP that

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we put together for how the sites are going to recruit and share information.

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We have an SOP and I'll tell you about that in a subsequent episode because I think it's

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really cool as well.

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But there's a lot to discuss and we don't have to do it all in the first meeting.

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And so we, with the leadership team, in this case, the MPIs, we set the agenda for the

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things that we absolutely want to discuss in the meeting and the things that should

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be part of the agenda, but we're going to defer it to another meeting.

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And the things we're going to go into a little bit more detail on versus the things that

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we're not.

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The issues that we think maybe are pressing enough that they should rise to the top.

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And so being very clear about, okay, now that we've set the agenda, now that everybody's

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going to be gathered, we know who's coming, what exactly are we going to discuss in detail?

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What should we move away?

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What should we just glimpse?

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Or what should we skim the top off of?

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So you're really, now it's really focusing.

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In number one, you set the agenda, but in number three, you're really honing down on,

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okay, these are the details of the agenda.

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Okay.

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Number four, we're going to co-create the slides.

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Now I'll tell you how we did it.

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So first of all, we had a member of the team draft the slides.

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Now we've written the proposal, we've written the timeline.

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There's so many pieces of the proposal that we pulled together.

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So we had one member of the team go find all of that information, find the specific aims

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page and write the first draft of the slides.

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Remember, we already have an agenda.

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We're clear on what the details of that conversation are going to look like.

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And we don't have to create the first set of slides.

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Somebody else did that for us.

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And then they shared it with us on a Google Drive or it was some drive.

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I don't remember exactly.

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I think it was Box.

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We showed it on Box.

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And then we, one of the investigators, our principal investigator went through and put

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names on every, on each side for the core leadership team and said, hey, this slide

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is for you.

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Does it look good?

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What else would you change?

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Now then we all had opportunity asynchronously to go and edit the slide deck.

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Now we could have edited together at a meeting and I think we had planned to do that, but

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it turned out that we didn't have a meeting slot that worked perfectly.

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So we said, hey, we've already set the agenda.

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The meeting is next week.

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Why don't we just individually asynchronously edit the slides and let's do it by the state.

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So we set a deadline and we went in and individually edited the slides.

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Now I went in and edited the slides and I am very particular about the way slides look,

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especially with regards to how much text is on slides.

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I favor pictures over text.

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And so I went in and I edited heavily and probably an hour into editing and I was like,

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what am I doing?

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But I think that the first meeting is important and I think that it leaves an important impression.

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And you don't want people to be overwhelmed by text.

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And the natural, the natural bent of people is to read whatever text you give them.

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And so if you don't want them reading, then don't give them stuff to read.

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That's my philosophy.

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So I remove as much text as possible.

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I reorganize, I center, I make bigger.

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I really went in and really edited the slides.

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And I will tell you that the way I edit slides, that was a short period of time compared to

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how much I would have spent if I was creating the slides from scratch.

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Because what I didn't do was go back to our source data and remind myself, what did we

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say in specific game one?

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What did we say here?

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What did we say about methodology?

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What did we say about recruitment?

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Somebody else went and did all that for me.

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So all I really had to do was focus on how do we get the message across in the way that

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we need to.

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So we all co-created the slides.

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And I didn't even necessarily finish.

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For example, there was one page where I started creating the format of what I thought it should

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look like relative to what had already been established.

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And then I wrote a note.

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I said, finish it according to what I did.

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Now I will tell you that what the person did is not what I would have done.

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However, that was not a priority.

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It was like, I've clarified the way it should look like and now finish it.

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And then somebody else went and finished all the slides, made them pretty, added all the

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notes.

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And then finally, somebody else went in and said, OK, this person will present the slide.

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This was my co-principal investigator, also known as a multiple PI.

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And she went in and labeled the slides.

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So you're going to present this, you're going to present this, you're going to present this.

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So we really asynchronously pulled the slides together.

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And at the end, it was a really fantastic job.

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It was well done.

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You could tell it was polished.

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It was good because we want to leave a good impression.

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No one just half-hazardly throw slides together because people don't have a sense of what's

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going on inside you.

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They can't read your intention.

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They can only read what they see.

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And so showing up well is important.

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And it was important for us.

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And we did that.

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And we got good feedback from the meeting as well.

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All right.

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And I've co-created the slides.

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The meeting is set.

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Now we're going to conduct the meeting.

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And we started out with introducing the NPIs.

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And then we actually, we started out with the agenda.

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We introduced the NPIs.

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We started out introducing the study.

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And then we now went to a question and answer session as we introduced the team and their

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roles and responsibilities.

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And then we went into more details of the study, including recruitment.

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And then we finally went to, oh, we went to the timeline.

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And then we had question and answer session again, question and answer session again.

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So that was kind of the meeting itself.

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And then at the end of the meeting, everybody left.

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And the two NPIs and our collaborator stayed behind just to debrief the meeting.

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It was a really great meeting.

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And so we, you know, there's some meetings that are a part of it.

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You're like, that was well done.

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This was a well done meeting.

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And so that was what we stayed to share to say that was well done.

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This worked really well.

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And this is a great team.

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This is going to be a great study.

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And our other collaborator stayed on to say, I love the way you put this together.

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This was so well done.

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And it was just good feedback because we really did put in a lot of effort to make sure that

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we had a cohesive plan and that our slides looked good and communicated what we wanted

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them to communicate.

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And you know, you've done a good job when you do more of the work early on and you do

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the heavy lifting so that your viewer, your observer, your reader doesn't have to do that

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heavy lifting.

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And that's what we did.

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And it did come across and it was successful.

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So that was our meeting conduct.

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So during the meeting also, number six, that we had action items that came up as a result

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of the meeting.

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For example, let's double check the IRB.

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Let's make sure that this amendment is in place and then we're going to send the IRBs

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to the multi-site group.

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So we at the end of the meeting have a set of action items and everybody knows what it

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is they need to do before they come back for the next meeting.

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Number seven is the post-meeting follow-up.

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Now I told you that we had a brief debrief that wasn't actually scheduled, but it happened.

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Everybody dropped off and the MPIs and our chief collaborator stayed behind and talked

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about things.

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But that was a very, very brief meeting.

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But there was also a post-meeting follow-up where somebody, one of the leadership, members

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of the leadership team, not the MPIs, sent out an email with the slides that everybody

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has a copy of the slides and also a set of action items for the study as well.

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I'll tell you something that we did that was really, really helpful.

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And if this is a tool you have access to, I recommend it.

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But what we did was we used the AI companion that comes with Zoom.

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And so if you don't have access to the AI companion, another thing you could do is record

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your meeting and transcribe it and then maybe use AI to summarize the meeting.

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But we had someone who was taking minutes of the meeting and then we had the AI companion

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transcribe or summarize our meeting as well, take the meeting minutes.

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And so at the end we had meeting minutes and we had the person who had been taking notes.

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And we combined that because I think the AI overview is really broad and detailed and

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nice, but it's got a lot of details.

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People like to be very short and pithy.

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And so what she did was pull all the information from her notes and the AI and then made very,

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very a very brief summary.

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This was agenda item one, here's a follow-up.

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Agenda item two, here's a follow-up.

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And it was very, very much like a bullet point follow-up rather than the paragraphs of text

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that the AI summary did for us.

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And maybe the AI summary will do better over time.

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But I think it was important for us to not give people minutes to read.

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That can always be added as an attachment.

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Hey, if you have extra time, if you really want the details, here are the meeting minutes

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as generated by AI, which can be very detailed.

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But here's the high level overview.

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And many of your team members will appreciate the high level overview because even if they

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go read the detailed meeting summary, they're going to forget and they're going to want

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to go back and they're not going to want to read it all again.

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And so it's nice to have a meeting summary that they can go back to and just refer to.

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And then we, of course, have a folder in which we keep the major sections of our study.

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And we have a section for meetings and meeting minutes and meeting summaries.

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And so that's in our folder as well.

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So those are the seven steps.

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I probably mentioned eight, but I'll go ahead and just summarize.

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Number one, we set the agenda.

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Number two, we gathered the people.

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We had somebody else do that.

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Number three, we had a core leadership meeting to review the details of what the meeting

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would be.

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And before we co-created the slides asynchronously.

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Number five, we conducted the meeting.

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Number six, we had action items.

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Number seven, we had a post-meeting debrief.

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And we also have a folder in which we keep all of our meeting summaries.

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So I'll roll that into number seven.

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So that's what we did for our kickoff meeting.

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And again, this is not meant to be prescriptive.

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Please take it and do whatever you will with it.

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Make sure it's tailored to your team.

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I'm curious if you use any of these items to create your kickoff meeting or maybe your

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monthly meeting, would you share how it went, how you did it, what extra things you added

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to it or things that you took away that didn't work for your team and share it with me?

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I would love to hear about it.

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You can reach out to me through direct message on LinkedIn, on Instagram, or on Facebook.

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And my preferred way of communication is LinkedIn.

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Please reach out to me there first.

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The others might be delayed because I'm not on those platforms as often, but I do, I invite

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you to please share with me.

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I'd love to hear about it.

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And as always, if you are looking for a coach, please reach out to me.

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Happy to support you as you continue your growth as a clinician scientist.

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And finally, please share this episode with someone who is looking for guidance.

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Many times we're waiting for our mentors to hand things to us and sometimes they're so

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overwhelmed they're not thinking about what you need.

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You don't even know what you need.

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And so if this episode was helpful to you, would you do me a favor, do me a solid and

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share it with someone else who needs to hear it.

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All right.

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Thank you for doing one good deed for the day for me.

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And I look forward to talking with you again next time on the clinician researcher podcast.

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Thank you for listening.

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Thanks for listening to this episode of the clinician researcher podcast, where academic

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clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

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have a mentor.

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If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

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Someone else needs to hear it.

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So take a minute right now and share it.

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As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

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of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.