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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.

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I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is an absolute pleasure to be talking with you today.

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Thank you so much for tuning in.

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Today I'm talking about the grant kickoff meeting.

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The grant kickoff meeting.

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And the reason I'm talking about the grant kickoff meeting is because I just had a grant

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kickoff meeting just this last week.

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It was last week, yes.

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And it was phenomenal.

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And I needed to come and talk to you all about it because it transformed my experience.

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It absolutely did.

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Now, this was not my first grant.

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It is my first multi-site.

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It's not even my first multi-site study.

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But anyway, it is my first grant kickoff meeting.

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I've had other grants before.

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We've kind of had intro meetings, but not like this one.

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So I want to share the things I learned out of the importance of a grant kickoff meeting.

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And so just for a little bit of background, this is a non-interventional study where we're

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recruiting at three sites.

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So it's a multi-site study.

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And there are investigators.

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The bulk of the investigative team is at my institution.

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We have two PIs on this project, me and a collaborator in health measurement.

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And we also have site investigators at two other institutions.

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And so what this grant kickoff meeting was, was the coming together of the entire research

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team.

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So the entire team at Duke and the entire team at our collaborating sites.

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Now, the team at Duke, where the bulk of the investigative team is, we've been meeting.

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So this was not our first meeting.

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However, the meeting with the entire group was, it was the first meeting.

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So we got together, we spent time thinking about the meeting before the meeting.

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We created slides together for the meeting.

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And then we had the meeting.

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We had an agenda for the meeting.

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It was a really phenomenal meeting.

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And I want to share a couple of things that made the meeting phenomenal.

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And actually the whole idea of having a kickoff meeting from the beginning is amazing.

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And I know a lot of people do that already, so it's like, wait a minute, you're impressed

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by that?

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I don't know.

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I tell you that I came through and in a way that kind of was half hazard.

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It was almost like I was desperately looking for money so I could buy out clinical time.

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And when the money came, it was like, okay, money's come.

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Now I need to look for more money.

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And oh yeah, let's start doing some work.

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And so it never really felt seamless.

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It never really felt like a big thing had happened.

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And a lot of the initial grant funding I was getting was really just for me.

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So literally it was me and I was doing the work.

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And so when the grant money came in, I was already working.

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And so there was no big deal to stop and say, oh, congratulations to you.

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So you may now kick off the grant because it was just me.

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And so a grant kickoff meeting makes sense when it's a team.

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And it's important to gather the team, rally the troops and set and chart your course.

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And so this is what we were able to do in this meeting.

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So the first thing that this meeting established was it connected us as a team.

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It really did.

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And it was a powerful feeling at the end of the meeting.

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We all felt that, wow, this is a great team.

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And how did we decide that this is a great team?

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I mean, in reality, none, we've all worked together with different capacities.

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The whole team has not worked together as one, but I've worked with other members of

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the team individually and vice versa.

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But we're all coming together as one team now with a focus on executing this project

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and succeeding in this project.

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And so what we're doing is building community.

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We're building connection.

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Each member of the team is a member of a team in different spheres.

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This is not the only research project anybody on the team is working on, but we've come

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together and we've established the space.

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We said this is the team that's going to get this work done.

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Now there's a connection.

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There's been a connection all along because we're all still talking individually, but

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in coming together, it's the cohesive force of this research team all together in a virtual

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room and a statement is made that connects us together.

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We're connected, but we're really connected.

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I mean, if we had an in-person meeting, we would probably deepen the connection because

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there's a kind of chemistry and electricity, you know, that happens with an in-person meeting

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that you cannot reproduce in a virtual meeting.

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However, the virtual teleconference is still a powerful setting for everybody to be able

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to come together, especially when everybody is at their computers, cameras on, engaging

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in the meeting.

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And it was a really powerful time of connection.

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And we had the opportunity for everyone to introduce themselves.

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And so it wasn't just one person having a conversation with, you know, people listening,

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but it was really everybody coming together to say, hey, this is how I'm an expert and

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this is how I can contribute.

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And it was really powerful, just the connections that were made and the opportunity for everybody

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to say, this is who I am and for me to be able to speak for myself, right?

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Not for someone to say, this is who this person is and this is what they'll do.

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But for me to be able to say, this is the expertise I bring to this project.

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So the number one reason to have a kickoff meeting is to establish the connection from

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the beginning because the steam is going to be working together.

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And it's important for people to come together and know one another.

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Another thing, another reason that comes to mind about the importance of this connection

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is that when you think about going to publish, so ICNJ is the group that comes together to

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talk about ethics in publishing.

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And one of the things they talk about, if you've not gone to look at their four major

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criteria for authorship, you might be surprised to find that they expect that the authors

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know who all the authors are and what their contribution is.

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Which, you know, especially when you think about the fact that sometimes we do cooperative

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group studies where there are a lot of authors, you can't possibly know everybody, but there

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needs to be a sense of what the other person contributed on the team.

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And so it's important as we bring these teams together for everyone to be able to say, oh,

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you're the co-authors, you're the collaborators.

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I know what you do because someone shared with me who you are and what you do.

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And so the number one reason for having a kickoff meeting is to connect the team.

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Number two is to align the team.

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So the team is connected.

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This is great.

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Now, when you think about teams, you think about a football team, there is a unified

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goal.

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Our goal is to stop the opposition as we try to get the ball over the goalposts or across

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the goalpost or across the goal line.

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You have a common goal, a shared goal, and you're able to align the team as you meet

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and you discuss what this shared goal is.

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If there's anybody on the team who's confused about the rules of the game, what an opportunity

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for you to set them straight.

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And so we have the opportunity to walk through the study with each member of the team.

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Now some of them were there when we wrote the grant, so they have a good sense of what

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the project is about.

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And some people are just being brought on now to work on this project and they work

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on many projects, so they don't have a clear idea.

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And so what we did was we had a slide set and we laid out the grant.

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This is why this problem is important, background and significance.

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This is what we're going to do in the study, our main objective.

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And this is how we're going to carry it out, our aims.

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And then we give everybody an opportunity to ask questions and clarify.

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And at the end of it, we're aligned.

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We all know what we're supposed to do.

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We all know how this project becomes successful.

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We know how we're going to work together to make it happen because we have one goal, one

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focus.

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And so one of the most important things about the kickoff meeting is that everybody shows

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up, everybody's there, and they can figure out together what we're going to do.

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And now that we have a shared goal, a shared vision, a shared mission, we can all be aligned

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around the shared goal, vision and mission.

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And so alignment is number two in the reasons why you should have a grant kickoff meeting.

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Number three is to clarify roles, clarify roles.

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The wonderful thing about these multidisciplinary or interdisciplinary teams is that everybody

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has expertise.

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And to be honest, if push comes to shove, I can step in and do your job and you can step

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in and do my job.

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And so it's not about what people can do.

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It's about what makes the most sense for this particular study, for this particular project.

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And so we had a really beautiful conversation.

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I feel like it was beautiful.

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It really was beautiful.

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We had a great conversation between the team of clinical research coordinators on the qualitative

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research side, so the measurement team, and the clinical research coordinators on the

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clinical team.

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And the clinical team is really there to bring the patients and to recruit patients.

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Now the clinical health measurement team have recruited patients before, so it's not like

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they don't know what they're doing.

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They could totally recruit patients.

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But what we're doing in the clinical research side and the clinical team is that we have

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those relationships already established.

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We have already connected with these patients.

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We've communicated with them.

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They know us well.

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We're kind of the door to the patients.

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And so we were able to come up with a strategy to say, okay, well, we know you can do our

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job, but this is why it makes more sense for us to do it.

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And this is the point at which we will transition to you to be the ones to do the scheduling.

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And then we can schedule because, hey, that's what we do, but you can schedule too.

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Which team makes more sense to do the scheduling?

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And then we find out that the health measurement team has a person whose responsibility it

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is to take care of daytime interviews and another person who actually has a later schedule

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so that if the person who's doing an interview needs to have an evening time, they're available

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to do that.

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And so then, okay, you have an infrastructure that allows you to stagger your day so that

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you're able to do evening time interviews.

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Well, okay, focus on the interviews.

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But we also talked about the need to be able to have cross-training so that there are no

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gaps.

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So if my team is not available to make the connection and consent the patient, the subject

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for the study, then the health measurement team can do that.

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And so at the end of the day, clarifying roles is important because you know what?

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We can do...

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We can flip and be on both sides of the aisle as far as our contribution.

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But clarifying roles helps us say, well, this is what I want you to focus on here.

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And for people to feel confident that no one is stepping on their toes or that they're

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not overstepping boundaries.

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And you know, people, especially those who are conflict avoidant, don't want to overstep

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boundaries.

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And so it's important to clarify roles.

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All right.

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Number four is to clarify the recruitment strategy.

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This is a study and there will be participants.

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And so how are we going to get this done?

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And this is really important because for this particular type of study, now that could be

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different types of studies, this particular type of studies, patients, participants are

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the foundation of our study.

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And so we need to be clear about who is eligible, what should we be looking for when we're screening

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for eligibility and how are we recruiting, where are we recruiting from, who is responsible

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for the recruitment.

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And so clarifying your recruitment strategy is important, was important for this study.

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Now, maybe you're doing animal studies and the recruitment is not an issue.

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The animals are all in the librarian.

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Okay.

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But there are logistical things that are central to your project that should be ironed out

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or at least discussed so that they can be brought up and the team can address them together.

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There are questions that the PIs can make decisions about, but there are questions that

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the people who are actually going to do the work need to make decisions about in a way

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that helps them do the best job.

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You can just assume and say, well, I know how to recruit patients, therefore this is

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the way it should be.

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And you're not recognizing that somebody has a need because of another commitment.

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You know, at the end of the day, the whole team needs to come together to make these

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decisions.

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And so even if it's not recruitment, that's your primary logistical thing for your project,

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think about who's carrying out the actual piece of this logistics.

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Who's doing it?

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It's great that I have this grand idea that this is the way it should be done, but who's

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going to be doing it?

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And are they in agreement with the plan that we set forth?

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Or do they have a different idea about how it should be done?

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So this was a great place to just clarify the major logistical challenges of the project

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and to have the people who are boots on the ground be able to tell you what's the most

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efficient way to get it done.

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Okay.

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Number five is clarifying the timeline or agreeing on the timeline.

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Now, you know, when we go to write the grant, we have big ideas in our mind about the way

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things are going to go.

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We have big ideas about exactly how we're going to get things done.

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For example, we're like, we're going to get all the regulatory out of the way before the

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grant is funded.

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And to some extent we did because we got the IRB approved.

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There's a lot, a lot more things that need to be done for the grant to really get off

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the ground.

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And so for us to be able to set the timeline and say, okay, here's what we said.

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Here's where we are.

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What do you think?

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Like, what do you think about this timeline?

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And why is that important?

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Because order and organization matters.

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Keeping to the schedule matters because these grants are funded for very specified periods

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of time.

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And yes, you can go into a no cost extension, though every funding agency will not agree

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to a no cost extension.

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So you have to be careful about that.

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But what is important is that you are clear about what the timelines are so that you can

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be strategic and work towards meeting the goals of your timeline.

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But it's also an opportunity for people to say, ha, that is never going to work.

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And they can help you adjust your timelines.

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And so that you can have a realistic expectation for the way things are going to be.

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And then when everybody's agreed on this timeline as a reasonable timeline, then we can all

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stop and hold ourselves accountable.

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I didn't enforce this timeline.

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I didn't make you accept it.

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We all looked at it together.

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We all discussed it.

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And we agreed that this was the most reasonable timeline.

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Now if we all come together again and say, oh, this was an unforeseeable challenge.

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We didn't see this pandemic coming that was going to throw off our timeline.

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That's fine.

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But at a minimum, you start off with a foundation of this is our expectation for what it will

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take and how we will accomplish it.

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And that's a really powerful thing to be able to do together so that you can hold each other

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accountable to meeting those timelines.

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And if a change needs to happen, you are all able to come together again to understand

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why that change is needed.

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So agreed on the timelines is number five.

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Number six is regulatory compliance.

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Wow.

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We are in a very regulated environment.

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And that's great because human beings do wrong things.

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And accountability is very, very important.

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Now sometimes it can feel like the burden of regulation is a lot.

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And it really, really is.

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I will totally own that.

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I've made regulatory mistakes without having any idea it was a regulation.

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Like is that a problem?

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Did I do something bad?

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There is somebody whose job it is to know what is right and what is wrong by the regulation.

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That's their job.

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They study it.

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They go to meetings.

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They get alerts.

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They get called.

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They are called in to be part of like disciplinary action or corrective measures.

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So they know they should be part of your team meeting so that they're listening and able

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to help you prepare in advance for any regulatory challenges that may hinder your project.

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You want this person in the room.

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You want them saying, I don't know if that's okay.

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And even though it'll be annoying, even though you'll say, oh, you're slowing us down, you

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want to pay attention because when you cross, if you cross that regulatory line, it will

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slow you down.

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It may even shut down your project.

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And so what you want is the person who puts bumps in the road so that it doesn't short

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hang your project.

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And so you're able to publish.

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So they are able to take this work further as far as you want to, but you want everything

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to be above board.

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And there are a lot of regulations, especially when it comes to human subjects.

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And you want to make sure there's someone in the room who's thinking about all the potential

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aspects of human subjects that needs to be addressed.

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So regulatory compliance is important and having everybody be aware because it's one

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thing for the regulatory person to be in the dark corner saying, oh, this is wrong.

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I'm going to talk to the PI about it.

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And so now the PI and the regulatory person both have a great idea about what they're

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supposed to do, but the whole team needs to know because the whole team needs to be compliant.

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And so the regulatory person being there can bring up ideas or bring up concerns so that

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the whole team is aware.

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Boots on the ground, high level, every member of the team is fully aware of what it means

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to be compliant with the regulatory issues.

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So number six is regulatory compliance.

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But finally, number seven is troubleshooting.

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You know, there is always, always, I was going to start off by saying that there's always

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someone who can spot trouble, right?

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They just have a magnet for trouble.

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They can see how things are not going to work.

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And sometimes you love to hate these people.

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You really do.

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But they're so important because you do want someone to say, this is how I think this might

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not work, not so that you can throw your hands up in the air and say, well, it's not going

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to work.

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I guess we stop now.

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But so that you say, oh, okay, how might we hedge against this?

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How might we work towards fixing this problem?

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How can we prevent this problem in the first place?

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And so every time somebody on your team gets up to point out problems, please thank them.

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Please thank them because they are pointing out to you what somebody else can see or what

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somebody else is going to say at some point or the other.

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And so you want to thank them and they give you an opportunity to address it in advance.

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Now you may not change anything based on their pointing out this challenge, but what you'll

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be able to do is preempt it because somebody else is going to bring it up.

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For example, now we are working towards launching this project and moving the project forward

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and somebody says, but what if the IRB is concerned about blah, blah, blah?

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Wow, we can't fix that.

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But someone in the IRB is going to say, oh, you did not address blah, blah, blah.

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And then they'll slow down your project for another three weeks.

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And so what you want to do is then you're going to say, oh, in IRB, we would like to

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point out that although XYZ could be considered as a problem, we considered it and this is

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what we're going to do.

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So that you kind of confront the problem head on.

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As soon as somebody says this is an issue, just find a way to either fix it if you can

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or point attention to the fact that this is a problem that cannot be fixed and this is

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what we're going to do to mitigate this problem.

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And so troubleshooting is powerful.

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It's so awesome.

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And having your whole team be there to help you do that troubleshooting is important as

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well.

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Now, one of the things I didn't mention is that kind of depends on the size of the group,

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right?

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How much you can do an interactive meeting will depend on how big the project is, how

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many collaborators are in the room.

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Now I'm talking about the small kickoff meeting, where we're probably about 10, no more than

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11, 12 people in the room.

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Now it's different from if you have like a multi-site study where it's like 25 investigators

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in the room, it may change the dynamics.

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It may really be one person doing the talking the entire time, but it's still important

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for everybody to get on the same page, for people to be able to have the opportunity

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to share concerns if they have them and for you to be able to give people a sense of community

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and a sense of alignment with the mission and the vision of the project.

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So to summarize seven reasons that you should do a grant kickoff meeting, number one, connection,

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number two, alignment, number three, clarify roles, number four, clarify your recruitment

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strategy, number five, agree on timelines, number six, make sure you're compliant with

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the regulatory things, number seven, troubleshooting.

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I want you to think about any project you have right now where there is more than one

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person involved and think about the start of the project.

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Did you have a kickoff meeting?

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And if the answer is no, I want to say, would you consider having a kickoff meeting?

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You may be like, wait, it's been two years into the grant and now we're having a kickoff

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meeting?

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Yes.

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One thing I didn't mention is that, yes, that was the kickoff meeting, but we're going to

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be meeting every month so that we can have people come up to speed on things and address

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any challenges as they're arising.

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So yes, maybe you didn't do the kickoff meeting when the grant project first started, but

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let's start having those meetings now.

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Bring the team together.

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You can say, I know we haven't done this and the grant is already four years old and due

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for renewal, but let's start from now on.

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And the key, whether you call it a kickoff meeting or you just call it a monthly meeting,

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is to bring the team together.

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There is so much power and synergy in people, especially people of diverse perspectives

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coming together to help solve a problem.

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The chances that that problem will be solved in an innovative and efficient way is much

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higher with a high performing team.

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So I invite you to take advantage of how you can leverage your team this week in either

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a kickoff or a monthly or whatever time interval you set meeting where every single member

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of the research team comes together.

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I'd love to hear about it.

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Send me a direct message on LinkedIn and I will respond.

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I'm also on Instagram and Facebook, but please send me a message on LinkedIn if you're on

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there.

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All right.

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It's been a pleasure talking with you today.

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I look forward to talking with you again next time on the Clinician Researcher Podcast.

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Have a great day.

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00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:34,680
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast where academic

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00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:40,400
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

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00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:41,460
have a mentor.

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00:23:41,460 --> 00:23:47,440
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

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00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,320
Someone else needs to hear it.

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00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,360
So take a minute right now and share it.

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As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

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of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.