Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills
to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.
When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find
that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research
program.
Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.
However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.
For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians
the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.
Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.
I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is an absolute pleasure to be talking with you today.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Today I'm talking about the grant kickoff meeting.
The grant kickoff meeting.
And the reason I'm talking about the grant kickoff meeting is because I just had a grant
kickoff meeting just this last week.
It was last week, yes.
And it was phenomenal.
And I needed to come and talk to you all about it because it transformed my experience.
It absolutely did.
Now, this was not my first grant.
It is my first multi-site.
It's not even my first multi-site study.
But anyway, it is my first grant kickoff meeting.
I've had other grants before.
We've kind of had intro meetings, but not like this one.
So I want to share the things I learned out of the importance of a grant kickoff meeting.
And so just for a little bit of background, this is a non-interventional study where we're
recruiting at three sites.
So it's a multi-site study.
And there are investigators.
The bulk of the investigative team is at my institution.
We have two PIs on this project, me and a collaborator in health measurement.
And we also have site investigators at two other institutions.
And so what this grant kickoff meeting was, was the coming together of the entire research
team.
So the entire team at Duke and the entire team at our collaborating sites.
Now, the team at Duke, where the bulk of the investigative team is, we've been meeting.
So this was not our first meeting.
However, the meeting with the entire group was, it was the first meeting.
So we got together, we spent time thinking about the meeting before the meeting.
We created slides together for the meeting.
And then we had the meeting.
We had an agenda for the meeting.
It was a really phenomenal meeting.
And I want to share a couple of things that made the meeting phenomenal.
And actually the whole idea of having a kickoff meeting from the beginning is amazing.
And I know a lot of people do that already, so it's like, wait a minute, you're impressed
by that?
I don't know.
I tell you that I came through and in a way that kind of was half hazard.
It was almost like I was desperately looking for money so I could buy out clinical time.
And when the money came, it was like, okay, money's come.
Now I need to look for more money.
And oh yeah, let's start doing some work.
And so it never really felt seamless.
It never really felt like a big thing had happened.
And a lot of the initial grant funding I was getting was really just for me.
So literally it was me and I was doing the work.
And so when the grant money came in, I was already working.
And so there was no big deal to stop and say, oh, congratulations to you.
So you may now kick off the grant because it was just me.
And so a grant kickoff meeting makes sense when it's a team.
And it's important to gather the team, rally the troops and set and chart your course.
And so this is what we were able to do in this meeting.
So the first thing that this meeting established was it connected us as a team.
It really did.
And it was a powerful feeling at the end of the meeting.
We all felt that, wow, this is a great team.
And how did we decide that this is a great team?
I mean, in reality, none, we've all worked together with different capacities.
The whole team has not worked together as one, but I've worked with other members of
the team individually and vice versa.
But we're all coming together as one team now with a focus on executing this project
and succeeding in this project.
And so what we're doing is building community.
We're building connection.
Each member of the team is a member of a team in different spheres.
This is not the only research project anybody on the team is working on, but we've come
together and we've established the space.
We said this is the team that's going to get this work done.
Now there's a connection.
There's been a connection all along because we're all still talking individually, but
in coming together, it's the cohesive force of this research team all together in a virtual
room and a statement is made that connects us together.
We're connected, but we're really connected.
I mean, if we had an in-person meeting, we would probably deepen the connection because
there's a kind of chemistry and electricity, you know, that happens with an in-person meeting
that you cannot reproduce in a virtual meeting.
However, the virtual teleconference is still a powerful setting for everybody to be able
to come together, especially when everybody is at their computers, cameras on, engaging
in the meeting.
And it was a really powerful time of connection.
And we had the opportunity for everyone to introduce themselves.
And so it wasn't just one person having a conversation with, you know, people listening,
but it was really everybody coming together to say, hey, this is how I'm an expert and
this is how I can contribute.
And it was really powerful, just the connections that were made and the opportunity for everybody
to say, this is who I am and for me to be able to speak for myself, right?
Not for someone to say, this is who this person is and this is what they'll do.
But for me to be able to say, this is the expertise I bring to this project.
So the number one reason to have a kickoff meeting is to establish the connection from
the beginning because the steam is going to be working together.
And it's important for people to come together and know one another.
Another thing, another reason that comes to mind about the importance of this connection
is that when you think about going to publish, so ICNJ is the group that comes together to
talk about ethics in publishing.
And one of the things they talk about, if you've not gone to look at their four major
criteria for authorship, you might be surprised to find that they expect that the authors
know who all the authors are and what their contribution is.
Which, you know, especially when you think about the fact that sometimes we do cooperative
group studies where there are a lot of authors, you can't possibly know everybody, but there
needs to be a sense of what the other person contributed on the team.
And so it's important as we bring these teams together for everyone to be able to say, oh,
you're the co-authors, you're the collaborators.
I know what you do because someone shared with me who you are and what you do.
And so the number one reason for having a kickoff meeting is to connect the team.
Number two is to align the team.
So the team is connected.
This is great.
Now, when you think about teams, you think about a football team, there is a unified
goal.
Our goal is to stop the opposition as we try to get the ball over the goalposts or across
the goalpost or across the goal line.
You have a common goal, a shared goal, and you're able to align the team as you meet
and you discuss what this shared goal is.
If there's anybody on the team who's confused about the rules of the game, what an opportunity
for you to set them straight.
And so we have the opportunity to walk through the study with each member of the team.
Now some of them were there when we wrote the grant, so they have a good sense of what
the project is about.
And some people are just being brought on now to work on this project and they work
on many projects, so they don't have a clear idea.
And so what we did was we had a slide set and we laid out the grant.
This is why this problem is important, background and significance.
This is what we're going to do in the study, our main objective.
And this is how we're going to carry it out, our aims.
And then we give everybody an opportunity to ask questions and clarify.
And at the end of it, we're aligned.
We all know what we're supposed to do.
We all know how this project becomes successful.
We know how we're going to work together to make it happen because we have one goal, one
focus.
And so one of the most important things about the kickoff meeting is that everybody shows
up, everybody's there, and they can figure out together what we're going to do.
And now that we have a shared goal, a shared vision, a shared mission, we can all be aligned
around the shared goal, vision and mission.
And so alignment is number two in the reasons why you should have a grant kickoff meeting.
Number three is to clarify roles, clarify roles.
The wonderful thing about these multidisciplinary or interdisciplinary teams is that everybody
has expertise.
And to be honest, if push comes to shove, I can step in and do your job and you can step
in and do my job.
And so it's not about what people can do.
It's about what makes the most sense for this particular study, for this particular project.
And so we had a really beautiful conversation.
I feel like it was beautiful.
It really was beautiful.
We had a great conversation between the team of clinical research coordinators on the qualitative
research side, so the measurement team, and the clinical research coordinators on the
clinical team.
And the clinical team is really there to bring the patients and to recruit patients.
Now the clinical health measurement team have recruited patients before, so it's not like
they don't know what they're doing.
They could totally recruit patients.
But what we're doing in the clinical research side and the clinical team is that we have
those relationships already established.
We have already connected with these patients.
We've communicated with them.
They know us well.
We're kind of the door to the patients.
And so we were able to come up with a strategy to say, okay, well, we know you can do our
job, but this is why it makes more sense for us to do it.
And this is the point at which we will transition to you to be the ones to do the scheduling.
And then we can schedule because, hey, that's what we do, but you can schedule too.
Which team makes more sense to do the scheduling?
And then we find out that the health measurement team has a person whose responsibility it
is to take care of daytime interviews and another person who actually has a later schedule
so that if the person who's doing an interview needs to have an evening time, they're available
to do that.
And so then, okay, you have an infrastructure that allows you to stagger your day so that
you're able to do evening time interviews.
Well, okay, focus on the interviews.
But we also talked about the need to be able to have cross-training so that there are no
gaps.
So if my team is not available to make the connection and consent the patient, the subject
for the study, then the health measurement team can do that.
And so at the end of the day, clarifying roles is important because you know what?
We can do...
We can flip and be on both sides of the aisle as far as our contribution.
But clarifying roles helps us say, well, this is what I want you to focus on here.
And for people to feel confident that no one is stepping on their toes or that they're
not overstepping boundaries.
And you know, people, especially those who are conflict avoidant, don't want to overstep
boundaries.
And so it's important to clarify roles.
All right.
Number four is to clarify the recruitment strategy.
This is a study and there will be participants.
And so how are we going to get this done?
And this is really important because for this particular type of study, now that could be
different types of studies, this particular type of studies, patients, participants are
the foundation of our study.
And so we need to be clear about who is eligible, what should we be looking for when we're screening
for eligibility and how are we recruiting, where are we recruiting from, who is responsible
for the recruitment.
And so clarifying your recruitment strategy is important, was important for this study.
Now, maybe you're doing animal studies and the recruitment is not an issue.
The animals are all in the librarian.
Okay.
But there are logistical things that are central to your project that should be ironed out
or at least discussed so that they can be brought up and the team can address them together.
There are questions that the PIs can make decisions about, but there are questions that
the people who are actually going to do the work need to make decisions about in a way
that helps them do the best job.
You can just assume and say, well, I know how to recruit patients, therefore this is
the way it should be.
And you're not recognizing that somebody has a need because of another commitment.
You know, at the end of the day, the whole team needs to come together to make these
decisions.
And so even if it's not recruitment, that's your primary logistical thing for your project,
think about who's carrying out the actual piece of this logistics.
Who's doing it?
It's great that I have this grand idea that this is the way it should be done, but who's
going to be doing it?
And are they in agreement with the plan that we set forth?
Or do they have a different idea about how it should be done?
So this was a great place to just clarify the major logistical challenges of the project
and to have the people who are boots on the ground be able to tell you what's the most
efficient way to get it done.
Okay.
Number five is clarifying the timeline or agreeing on the timeline.
Now, you know, when we go to write the grant, we have big ideas in our mind about the way
things are going to go.
We have big ideas about exactly how we're going to get things done.
For example, we're like, we're going to get all the regulatory out of the way before the
grant is funded.
And to some extent we did because we got the IRB approved.
There's a lot, a lot more things that need to be done for the grant to really get off
the ground.
And so for us to be able to set the timeline and say, okay, here's what we said.
Here's where we are.
What do you think?
Like, what do you think about this timeline?
And why is that important?
Because order and organization matters.
Keeping to the schedule matters because these grants are funded for very specified periods
of time.
And yes, you can go into a no cost extension, though every funding agency will not agree
to a no cost extension.
So you have to be careful about that.
But what is important is that you are clear about what the timelines are so that you can
be strategic and work towards meeting the goals of your timeline.
But it's also an opportunity for people to say, ha, that is never going to work.
And they can help you adjust your timelines.
And so that you can have a realistic expectation for the way things are going to be.
And then when everybody's agreed on this timeline as a reasonable timeline, then we can all
stop and hold ourselves accountable.
I didn't enforce this timeline.
I didn't make you accept it.
We all looked at it together.
We all discussed it.
And we agreed that this was the most reasonable timeline.
Now if we all come together again and say, oh, this was an unforeseeable challenge.
We didn't see this pandemic coming that was going to throw off our timeline.
That's fine.
But at a minimum, you start off with a foundation of this is our expectation for what it will
take and how we will accomplish it.
And that's a really powerful thing to be able to do together so that you can hold each other
accountable to meeting those timelines.
And if a change needs to happen, you are all able to come together again to understand
why that change is needed.
So agreed on the timelines is number five.
Number six is regulatory compliance.
Wow.
We are in a very regulated environment.
And that's great because human beings do wrong things.
And accountability is very, very important.
Now sometimes it can feel like the burden of regulation is a lot.
And it really, really is.
I will totally own that.
I've made regulatory mistakes without having any idea it was a regulation.
Like is that a problem?
Did I do something bad?
There is somebody whose job it is to know what is right and what is wrong by the regulation.
That's their job.
They study it.
They go to meetings.
They get alerts.
They get called.
They are called in to be part of like disciplinary action or corrective measures.
So they know they should be part of your team meeting so that they're listening and able
to help you prepare in advance for any regulatory challenges that may hinder your project.
You want this person in the room.
You want them saying, I don't know if that's okay.
And even though it'll be annoying, even though you'll say, oh, you're slowing us down, you
want to pay attention because when you cross, if you cross that regulatory line, it will
slow you down.
It may even shut down your project.
And so what you want is the person who puts bumps in the road so that it doesn't short
hang your project.
And so you're able to publish.
So they are able to take this work further as far as you want to, but you want everything
to be above board.
And there are a lot of regulations, especially when it comes to human subjects.
And you want to make sure there's someone in the room who's thinking about all the potential
aspects of human subjects that needs to be addressed.
So regulatory compliance is important and having everybody be aware because it's one
thing for the regulatory person to be in the dark corner saying, oh, this is wrong.
I'm going to talk to the PI about it.
And so now the PI and the regulatory person both have a great idea about what they're
supposed to do, but the whole team needs to know because the whole team needs to be compliant.
And so the regulatory person being there can bring up ideas or bring up concerns so that
the whole team is aware.
Boots on the ground, high level, every member of the team is fully aware of what it means
to be compliant with the regulatory issues.
So number six is regulatory compliance.
But finally, number seven is troubleshooting.
You know, there is always, always, I was going to start off by saying that there's always
someone who can spot trouble, right?
They just have a magnet for trouble.
They can see how things are not going to work.
And sometimes you love to hate these people.
You really do.
But they're so important because you do want someone to say, this is how I think this might
not work, not so that you can throw your hands up in the air and say, well, it's not going
to work.
I guess we stop now.
But so that you say, oh, okay, how might we hedge against this?
How might we work towards fixing this problem?
How can we prevent this problem in the first place?
And so every time somebody on your team gets up to point out problems, please thank them.
Please thank them because they are pointing out to you what somebody else can see or what
somebody else is going to say at some point or the other.
And so you want to thank them and they give you an opportunity to address it in advance.
Now you may not change anything based on their pointing out this challenge, but what you'll
be able to do is preempt it because somebody else is going to bring it up.
For example, now we are working towards launching this project and moving the project forward
and somebody says, but what if the IRB is concerned about blah, blah, blah?
Wow, we can't fix that.
But someone in the IRB is going to say, oh, you did not address blah, blah, blah.
And then they'll slow down your project for another three weeks.
And so what you want to do is then you're going to say, oh, in IRB, we would like to
point out that although XYZ could be considered as a problem, we considered it and this is
what we're going to do.
So that you kind of confront the problem head on.
As soon as somebody says this is an issue, just find a way to either fix it if you can
or point attention to the fact that this is a problem that cannot be fixed and this is
what we're going to do to mitigate this problem.
And so troubleshooting is powerful.
It's so awesome.
And having your whole team be there to help you do that troubleshooting is important as
well.
Now, one of the things I didn't mention is that kind of depends on the size of the group,
right?
How much you can do an interactive meeting will depend on how big the project is, how
many collaborators are in the room.
Now I'm talking about the small kickoff meeting, where we're probably about 10, no more than
11, 12 people in the room.
Now it's different from if you have like a multi-site study where it's like 25 investigators
in the room, it may change the dynamics.
It may really be one person doing the talking the entire time, but it's still important
for everybody to get on the same page, for people to be able to have the opportunity
to share concerns if they have them and for you to be able to give people a sense of community
and a sense of alignment with the mission and the vision of the project.
So to summarize seven reasons that you should do a grant kickoff meeting, number one, connection,
number two, alignment, number three, clarify roles, number four, clarify your recruitment
strategy, number five, agree on timelines, number six, make sure you're compliant with
the regulatory things, number seven, troubleshooting.
I want you to think about any project you have right now where there is more than one
person involved and think about the start of the project.
Did you have a kickoff meeting?
And if the answer is no, I want to say, would you consider having a kickoff meeting?
You may be like, wait, it's been two years into the grant and now we're having a kickoff
meeting?
Yes.
One thing I didn't mention is that, yes, that was the kickoff meeting, but we're going to
be meeting every month so that we can have people come up to speed on things and address
any challenges as they're arising.
So yes, maybe you didn't do the kickoff meeting when the grant project first started, but
let's start having those meetings now.
Bring the team together.
You can say, I know we haven't done this and the grant is already four years old and due
for renewal, but let's start from now on.
And the key, whether you call it a kickoff meeting or you just call it a monthly meeting,
is to bring the team together.
There is so much power and synergy in people, especially people of diverse perspectives
coming together to help solve a problem.
The chances that that problem will be solved in an innovative and efficient way is much
higher with a high performing team.
So I invite you to take advantage of how you can leverage your team this week in either
a kickoff or a monthly or whatever time interval you set meeting where every single member
of the research team comes together.
I'd love to hear about it.
Send me a direct message on LinkedIn and I will respond.
I'm also on Instagram and Facebook, but please send me a message on LinkedIn if you're on
there.
All right.
It's been a pleasure talking with you today.
I look forward to talking with you again next time on the Clinician Researcher Podcast.
Have a great day.
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