1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills 2 00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260 to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 3 00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340 As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients. 4 00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380 When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find 5 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780 that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research 6 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,180 program. 7 00:00:29,180 --> 00:00:35,480 Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit. 8 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580 However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs. 9 00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200 For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800 the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,340 Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene. 12 00:01:01,340 --> 00:01:03,860 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast. 13 00:01:03,860 --> 00:01:07,860 I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is an absolute pleasure to be talking with you 14 00:01:07,860 --> 00:01:08,860 today. 15 00:01:08,860 --> 00:01:09,860 Thank you so much for tuning in. 16 00:01:09,860 --> 00:01:14,500 Today, I'm talking about how you know your manuscript is ready for submission, how you 17 00:01:14,500 --> 00:01:18,580 know your manuscript is ready for submission. 18 00:01:18,580 --> 00:01:24,620 This particular episode is coming to you with my trainees and my mentees, really. 19 00:01:24,620 --> 00:01:31,860 I'll call them my mentees in my research program, in mind, because I want to help them understand 20 00:01:31,860 --> 00:01:33,780 that there really is a process. 21 00:01:33,780 --> 00:01:41,140 There's a process, and sometimes I think when you first come to manuscript writing, especially 22 00:01:41,140 --> 00:01:46,140 scientific manuscript writing, there is a sense that it's like a college term paper 23 00:01:46,140 --> 00:01:53,980 where you maybe stay up all night and then you hammer out this huge manuscript and it 24 00:01:53,980 --> 00:01:58,700 takes you maybe eight hours and you're like, whoa, good for me, I've done it. 25 00:01:58,700 --> 00:02:03,860 Then you send it over to your mentor and they come back saying, wow, this is really good 26 00:02:03,860 --> 00:02:08,060 and here are all the edits and there's what looks like red everywhere, depending on how 27 00:02:08,060 --> 00:02:10,060 the track changes come to you. 28 00:02:10,060 --> 00:02:12,460 Then you're like, oh my gosh, I spent so much time. 29 00:02:12,460 --> 00:02:17,580 Then you take the next time of binge writing and you binge write and edit all the work. 30 00:02:17,580 --> 00:02:21,380 Then you send it back and they send it back to you and it's like, oh, this is really good 31 00:02:21,380 --> 00:02:23,780 and now these are all these edits. 32 00:02:23,780 --> 00:02:26,700 Sometimes it feels like torture where it's like, wait a minute, when is this manuscript 33 00:02:26,700 --> 00:02:27,700 going to be done? 34 00:02:27,700 --> 00:02:33,520 I've now spent maybe 32 of these binge writing sessions writing this manuscript and each 35 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,540 time you keep sending it back to me saying it's not ready, what's wrong with you? 36 00:02:37,540 --> 00:02:42,900 If you are like many clinicians who are trying to write around clinic and around all the 37 00:02:42,900 --> 00:02:48,940 activities that you're doing, these 32 hours didn't happen over four days. 38 00:02:48,940 --> 00:02:54,160 These are 32 hours that have happened over maybe 17 weeks because when it comes to time 39 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,700 to binge write, it doesn't really come very easily. 40 00:02:57,700 --> 00:03:02,320 You have to wait for the right time and for many of us, it's like, oh, a couple of weeks 41 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:07,460 from now during summer vacation, travel, I can do this. 42 00:03:07,460 --> 00:03:12,820 Unfortunately, the time that is needed to invest in a manuscript is time that is needed. 43 00:03:12,820 --> 00:03:17,420 Whether that time is spread over years or that time is spread over days, it really takes 44 00:03:17,420 --> 00:03:20,940 time and investment to write a good manuscript. 45 00:03:20,940 --> 00:03:24,060 I want to talk about how do you know? 46 00:03:24,060 --> 00:03:29,780 As a mentor, when I edit manuscripts and even when I'm a collaborator on manuscripts, though 47 00:03:29,780 --> 00:03:31,340 there's a little bit of a difference there. 48 00:03:31,340 --> 00:03:35,540 If I'm the senior author on a manuscript, I know when the manuscript is ready and I 49 00:03:35,540 --> 00:03:39,940 think there's a lot of frustration with my mentees in my program because it's like, you 50 00:03:39,940 --> 00:03:41,740 keep sending it back to me. 51 00:03:41,740 --> 00:03:43,780 You keep sending it back to me. 52 00:03:43,780 --> 00:03:45,580 Every time I say, hey, it's getting better. 53 00:03:45,580 --> 00:03:46,580 This is great. 54 00:03:46,580 --> 00:03:48,340 They're like, no, it's supposed to be done. 55 00:03:48,340 --> 00:03:53,180 I just want to be very clear about how I think about manuscripts and how I think about when 56 00:03:53,180 --> 00:03:55,260 they're actually ready for submission. 57 00:03:55,260 --> 00:03:59,540 I hope that my mentees are listening because this is really for you. 58 00:03:59,540 --> 00:04:06,460 I think that this is helpful to anybody who is writing and this really applies to manuscripts 59 00:04:06,460 --> 00:04:11,340 specifically, though it can be thought about for grants as well. 60 00:04:11,340 --> 00:04:15,980 I will tell you because I need to, I just need to get this out of my mind right now, 61 00:04:15,980 --> 00:04:19,420 is that there is a current manuscript that I'm working on right now that sparks this 62 00:04:19,420 --> 00:04:22,940 specific episode. 63 00:04:22,940 --> 00:04:29,900 I will say that at the end of revising and I want to tell you and I tell you at the risk 64 00:04:29,900 --> 00:04:34,260 of my mentees listening and saying, that's our paper she's talking about, but I want 65 00:04:34,260 --> 00:04:39,660 to tell you that we started working on this manuscript in 2021, I believe. 66 00:04:39,660 --> 00:04:42,420 This is 2021, end of 2021, I believe. 67 00:04:42,420 --> 00:04:46,220 So we've been working on this manuscript for three years and no, it has not been three 68 00:04:46,220 --> 00:04:50,500 years of continuous writing, clearly because it would have been done by now, but it's been 69 00:04:50,500 --> 00:04:54,460 three years of staccato binge writing and we're still where we are. 70 00:04:54,460 --> 00:04:56,960 And it takes a long time to write a manuscript, right? 71 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:02,300 You're collecting data and then you are synthesizing the data and then you're going and you're 72 00:05:02,300 --> 00:05:03,420 writing the manuscript. 73 00:05:03,420 --> 00:05:07,020 So there have been other things that have been going on in between, but I will tell 74 00:05:07,020 --> 00:05:11,500 you that as far as writing the manuscript, we've probably been writing for over a year 75 00:05:11,500 --> 00:05:13,380 and it's still not ready. 76 00:05:13,380 --> 00:05:19,100 And so this manuscript is front and center in my mind as I tell you about this episode, 77 00:05:19,100 --> 00:05:26,940 as I share these insights and I hope my mentees, if you're listening, this is for you. 78 00:05:26,940 --> 00:05:34,820 Number one, writing a manuscript is not about getting a publication, it's about making a 79 00:05:34,820 --> 00:05:36,340 contribution. 80 00:05:36,340 --> 00:05:40,960 I want to say that again, because it's a little bit long, but it's important. 81 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,220 Writing a manuscript is about making a contribution. 82 00:05:44,220 --> 00:05:46,200 I know we need publications. 83 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,580 I know they say you should publish or perish. 84 00:05:48,580 --> 00:05:51,980 I know people are counting the numbers of your publications. 85 00:05:51,980 --> 00:05:58,820 I know you're desperately trying to get into medical school or get into residency or get 86 00:05:58,820 --> 00:06:02,820 a promotion or insert whatever goal you have there. 87 00:06:02,820 --> 00:06:09,500 I know you're trying to achieve a goal and having a number of publications is associated 88 00:06:09,500 --> 00:06:10,500 with that goal. 89 00:06:10,500 --> 00:06:16,020 And for that reason, it drives a little bit of craziness around writing and submitting. 90 00:06:16,020 --> 00:06:21,420 It's like, let's just submit it, let's just get it done so that we can publish this manuscript. 91 00:06:21,420 --> 00:06:24,900 And I just want to say that it's the wrong place to start. 92 00:06:24,900 --> 00:06:30,720 The publication goal, the number of publications you need to check off your list will always 93 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,900 be the wrong place to start. 94 00:06:33,900 --> 00:06:36,620 Now is number of publications important? 95 00:06:36,620 --> 00:06:39,700 As long as we're in academic medicine, it will always be important. 96 00:06:39,700 --> 00:06:43,420 Is publication important to the people who want to look at you as the expert? 97 00:06:43,420 --> 00:06:44,420 Yeah. 98 00:06:44,420 --> 00:06:47,740 If they don't see publications, they don't agree that you're the expert. 99 00:06:47,740 --> 00:06:50,940 If you've sent 3 million patients with a disorder, they don't agree. 100 00:06:50,940 --> 00:06:53,820 They're like, show me the money, show me what you've done. 101 00:06:53,820 --> 00:06:54,980 So publications are important. 102 00:06:54,980 --> 00:06:58,540 And I'm not trying now to diminish the importance of publications. 103 00:06:58,540 --> 00:07:02,420 But I'm saying if you're starting from the place of, I just need publications, I just 104 00:07:02,420 --> 00:07:05,780 need to check off the numbers, you're already starting from the wrong place because you're 105 00:07:05,780 --> 00:07:09,700 starting from a place of desperation and a place of scarcity. 106 00:07:09,700 --> 00:07:10,940 Yeah. 107 00:07:10,940 --> 00:07:13,220 And no good can come out of that. 108 00:07:13,220 --> 00:07:16,580 It's just like, I just need a man, I just need a man. 109 00:07:16,580 --> 00:07:19,140 It's like, okay, all right, you get what you get. 110 00:07:19,140 --> 00:07:20,140 That's the same thing. 111 00:07:20,140 --> 00:07:21,460 It's like, I just need a publication. 112 00:07:21,460 --> 00:07:24,740 It's like, oh, you get what you get. 113 00:07:24,740 --> 00:07:28,700 And so if you're really going to do this well, and if you're going to work in my research 114 00:07:28,700 --> 00:07:34,740 program mentees who are listening, you're going to start from the point of what contribution 115 00:07:34,740 --> 00:07:36,500 can I make? 116 00:07:36,500 --> 00:07:37,740 What contribution can I make? 117 00:07:37,740 --> 00:07:38,900 And why is this different? 118 00:07:38,900 --> 00:07:42,860 It's different because when you start from the place of contribution, you've got to start 119 00:07:42,860 --> 00:07:45,080 from the place of substance. 120 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,540 If you're just going to publish anything, you're just looking for what to publish. 121 00:07:48,540 --> 00:07:52,360 And to be honest, this is one of my biggest frustrations with people who say they want 122 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:53,660 to work with me. 123 00:07:53,660 --> 00:07:55,260 And it's like, they don't want to work with me. 124 00:07:55,260 --> 00:07:56,580 They just want a publication. 125 00:07:56,580 --> 00:08:00,820 And the kind of energy that comes from just, I just want any publication with my name on 126 00:08:00,820 --> 00:08:01,820 it. 127 00:08:01,820 --> 00:08:09,740 It's just, it's actually now a little bit, a little bit upsetting to me. 128 00:08:09,740 --> 00:08:13,580 I am confessing right now, it is a little bit upsetting to me because the energy and 129 00:08:13,580 --> 00:08:16,900 the frenzy that comes with that is not good. 130 00:08:16,900 --> 00:08:21,820 It's not good because it's willing to just throw things together, throw them in the wash 131 00:08:21,820 --> 00:08:23,740 and hope for the best. 132 00:08:23,740 --> 00:08:25,820 No good can come out of that. 133 00:08:25,820 --> 00:08:30,940 Or it's willing to go borrow things without appropriately attributing credit. 134 00:08:30,940 --> 00:08:32,920 And that is plagiarism. 135 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:37,980 It's willing to cut corners because it just wants to be published. 136 00:08:37,980 --> 00:08:40,020 And that's challenging. 137 00:08:40,020 --> 00:08:44,500 But when we start from the place of contribution, we start from the place of what can I bring? 138 00:08:44,500 --> 00:08:45,940 What thing of value can I bring? 139 00:08:45,940 --> 00:08:47,540 I know I'm trying to publish. 140 00:08:47,540 --> 00:08:52,500 I know what the end goal is, but what substance can I bring? 141 00:08:52,500 --> 00:08:56,680 And every time you start with value, every time you start with substance, every time 142 00:08:56,680 --> 00:09:01,820 you start with something that's important that you want to give, good things come out 143 00:09:01,820 --> 00:09:06,860 of that space because it drives you in a different way than the desperation of achieving the 144 00:09:06,860 --> 00:09:08,660 end goal drives you. 145 00:09:08,660 --> 00:09:12,260 And it shows up in the way your paper comes together. 146 00:09:12,260 --> 00:09:16,900 I can tell when people are just trying to get a publication because I read it and I'm 147 00:09:16,900 --> 00:09:21,260 like, what is this? 148 00:09:21,260 --> 00:09:24,500 And maybe some people are successful at pulling together publications that they're just trying 149 00:09:24,500 --> 00:09:27,900 to get publication out of and it's like, oh, well, it turned out well. 150 00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:30,860 But I think that's the exception rather than the rule. 151 00:09:30,860 --> 00:09:36,760 In reality, if you are going to have a quality submission, you're going to start with a quality 152 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:38,540 contribution. 153 00:09:38,540 --> 00:09:43,280 And so the starting point is really making a contribution. 154 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:50,380 And I want to say that if you don't have contribution as a starting point, what is the point? 155 00:09:50,380 --> 00:09:57,540 Just amass a lot of publications and get those boxes checked. 156 00:09:57,540 --> 00:10:00,140 What is the point? 157 00:10:00,140 --> 00:10:01,460 Everybody has different goals. 158 00:10:01,460 --> 00:10:05,620 And maybe your point is just, I don't even care how awesome those publications are. 159 00:10:05,620 --> 00:10:07,060 I just want the publications. 160 00:10:07,060 --> 00:10:08,060 That's fine. 161 00:10:08,060 --> 00:10:10,940 This conversation is not directed at you. 162 00:10:10,940 --> 00:10:15,220 I really am talking about people who want to do good in the world and they also want 163 00:10:15,220 --> 00:10:16,220 to submit publications. 164 00:10:16,220 --> 00:10:20,660 And I want to say it starts with doing good in the world and saying, how do I contribute? 165 00:10:20,660 --> 00:10:24,540 How does this paper contribute to the discourse in the literature? 166 00:10:24,540 --> 00:10:27,500 So number one, start with contribution. 167 00:10:27,500 --> 00:10:33,900 Number two, no matter the topic, you've got to bring your excellence to it. 168 00:10:33,900 --> 00:10:35,060 Yes. 169 00:10:35,060 --> 00:10:36,860 And I'm saying bring your excellence. 170 00:10:36,860 --> 00:10:39,700 I'm not saying go find excellence because you already have it. 171 00:10:39,700 --> 00:10:41,160 And how do I know you already have it? 172 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,860 Because you are listening to me, which means that you're in medicine. 173 00:10:44,860 --> 00:10:46,440 You're probably a physician. 174 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,780 You've probably done the four years in medical school. 175 00:10:48,780 --> 00:10:53,260 You've probably done the four years of residency or three or 10, however many you needed to 176 00:10:53,260 --> 00:10:54,260 do. 177 00:10:54,260 --> 00:10:56,700 And you're probably in fellowship or maybe you're beyond that. 178 00:10:56,700 --> 00:11:00,740 I don't know where you are in this process, but you've already invested a considerable 179 00:11:00,740 --> 00:11:05,220 amount of time in expanding yourself to get to a place that other people are never going 180 00:11:05,220 --> 00:11:08,260 to be able to get to for different reasons. 181 00:11:08,260 --> 00:11:09,260 No judgment. 182 00:11:09,260 --> 00:11:14,620 But you're somebody who can bring excellence to the table because you've had to do that. 183 00:11:14,620 --> 00:11:17,660 To get to medical school, you have to bring a level of excellence. 184 00:11:17,660 --> 00:11:21,340 To get into residency, you had to bring a level of excellence to the table. 185 00:11:21,340 --> 00:11:23,300 Excellence lies in you. 186 00:11:23,300 --> 00:11:29,700 So when you go to publish a manuscript, don't leave your excellence at the door and then 187 00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:34,740 just try to hastily put something together and say, voila, here is the paper. 188 00:11:34,740 --> 00:11:37,380 You've got to bring your excellence to it too. 189 00:11:37,380 --> 00:11:41,820 And we can tell when you bring anything less than your excellence to the paper because 190 00:11:41,820 --> 00:11:43,580 it looks so bland. 191 00:11:43,580 --> 00:11:48,940 And there's just a quality about it that's like, ugh, ugh. 192 00:11:48,940 --> 00:11:52,100 And for those of you who don't understand that sound, it's the sound of disgust. 193 00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:54,060 Like, what did you bring here? 194 00:11:54,060 --> 00:11:57,500 You're an excellent person, but why did you give me trash? 195 00:11:57,500 --> 00:12:01,780 And when you don't bring excellence to your manuscript writing, that's how people feel 196 00:12:01,780 --> 00:12:03,260 at the end of reading. 197 00:12:03,260 --> 00:12:08,900 It's like, ugh, this is just ew. 198 00:12:08,900 --> 00:12:10,660 And I'm not just talking about typos. 199 00:12:10,660 --> 00:12:15,940 I'm not just talking about grammatical incorrectness, which even when we bring our excellence, we 200 00:12:15,940 --> 00:12:16,940 still make mistakes. 201 00:12:16,940 --> 00:12:18,900 So it's not about the mistake making. 202 00:12:18,900 --> 00:12:21,500 It's about the fact that you're just pushing something together. 203 00:12:21,500 --> 00:12:25,640 You're just pulling it together and saying, here, here, here, take it. 204 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:30,180 Rather than saying, how do I craft something beautiful that is consistent with the kind 205 00:12:30,180 --> 00:12:33,140 of excellent person that I am? 206 00:12:33,140 --> 00:12:36,900 And you know, I want to say that it's one of those intangibles that it's hard to explain. 207 00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:40,580 Like, how can you tell when something's not excellent? 208 00:12:40,580 --> 00:12:41,740 You just can't. 209 00:12:41,740 --> 00:12:44,420 You can just tell that it lacks excellence. 210 00:12:44,420 --> 00:12:46,540 And yes, it is the typos. 211 00:12:46,540 --> 00:12:49,940 Yes, it's the grammatical incorrectness. 212 00:12:49,940 --> 00:12:50,940 It's everything. 213 00:12:50,940 --> 00:12:58,660 But it's just the whole package says, I just swashed this together, and I really didn't 214 00:12:58,660 --> 00:13:01,060 put time and effort into it. 215 00:13:01,060 --> 00:13:07,280 And from people who are used to being excellent, who can be super excellent, whenever you see 216 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:12,300 work that is less than excellent, you can tell, and it is off putting. 217 00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:16,340 And I want to say that it takes a lot of time and investment to get a manuscript published, 218 00:13:16,340 --> 00:13:21,180 writing, submitting the manuscript, waiting to receive the reviews, working through the 219 00:13:21,180 --> 00:13:25,380 reviews, moving from one journal tier to the next journal tier. 220 00:13:25,380 --> 00:13:26,780 It takes a lot of time and investment. 221 00:13:26,780 --> 00:13:30,220 If you're going to do it, you want to be excellent all the way. 222 00:13:30,220 --> 00:13:33,420 And that's sometimes the challenge with not getting manuscripts published. 223 00:13:33,420 --> 00:13:37,540 Even when your manuscript is excellent, it's hard to get it published. 224 00:13:37,540 --> 00:13:41,260 But when it's not excellent, it is even harder. 225 00:13:41,260 --> 00:13:46,660 And so what a waste of energy to be moving manuscript from journal to journal to journal, 226 00:13:46,660 --> 00:13:48,420 and it's not excellent. 227 00:13:48,420 --> 00:13:50,620 It's a waste of energy. 228 00:13:50,620 --> 00:13:52,620 And I don't want to make that kind of investment. 229 00:13:52,620 --> 00:13:57,860 So I want to invite you, when you're going ahead and pulling a manuscript together, think 230 00:13:57,860 --> 00:13:59,380 about contribution, number one. 231 00:13:59,380 --> 00:14:03,600 And number two, bring your excellence to the writing. 232 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,660 Number three, be careful about making factual statements. 233 00:14:07,660 --> 00:14:08,660 Okay. 234 00:14:08,660 --> 00:14:11,900 So make a factual statement in its very loose definition. 235 00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:14,780 It's something that somebody else has shown in another manuscript. 236 00:14:14,780 --> 00:14:15,840 That's it. 237 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,440 Because you're going to cite this. 238 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:18,580 You don't even know, is it true? 239 00:14:18,580 --> 00:14:19,580 Is it not true? 240 00:14:19,580 --> 00:14:23,060 In general, you don't want to write in your manuscript things that are not true. 241 00:14:23,060 --> 00:14:28,100 But anything you're saying has to first of all, this is like, for example, you're starting 242 00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:29,560 with the introduction. 243 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,760 Your introduction will always be based on what is already written. 244 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:33,940 Somebody else has written something. 245 00:14:33,940 --> 00:14:36,980 So go pull what's written, write it in your paper. 246 00:14:36,980 --> 00:14:40,300 Not verbatim, you're going to paraphrase, but you're also going to cite it. 247 00:14:40,300 --> 00:14:41,760 This is really important. 248 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,340 Be factual and write factual statements. 249 00:14:45,340 --> 00:14:51,620 Many times there is an overlap of what is factual and what is opinion, right? 250 00:14:51,620 --> 00:14:54,460 We saw that there was a difference between these two populations. 251 00:14:54,460 --> 00:14:57,940 Therefore, this population must suck while the other one must be great. 252 00:14:57,940 --> 00:14:58,940 Yes. 253 00:14:58,940 --> 00:15:02,460 So yes, the difference between the populations, that's factual. 254 00:15:02,460 --> 00:15:06,380 This population sucks relative to the other population, not factual. 255 00:15:06,380 --> 00:15:07,660 That is opinion. 256 00:15:07,660 --> 00:15:09,620 That is conjecture. 257 00:15:09,620 --> 00:15:14,900 When you go to write in your paper, especially as you're making arguments, laying out the 258 00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:22,780 introduction, you want to be clear to pull in fact and separate all the other stuff. 259 00:15:22,780 --> 00:15:27,900 And so where you go, and I'm exaggerating a little bit to make a point, most of us will 260 00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:29,660 not write that in the paper, I hope. 261 00:15:29,660 --> 00:15:34,620 Though actually I will tell you that I've read many a paper that talks about opinion 262 00:15:34,620 --> 00:15:37,780 as fact. 263 00:15:37,780 --> 00:15:43,340 But what I want to say is that when you bring in elements from other people's manuscripts, 264 00:15:43,340 --> 00:15:49,580 be careful to only extract what is relevant to your paper, but based in fact, right? 265 00:15:49,580 --> 00:15:51,140 They got three. 266 00:15:51,140 --> 00:15:52,780 The median was three. 267 00:15:52,780 --> 00:15:53,780 That's fact. 268 00:15:53,780 --> 00:15:54,780 They got a median of three. 269 00:15:54,780 --> 00:15:55,780 Maybe they made it up. 270 00:15:55,780 --> 00:15:56,780 We don't know. 271 00:15:56,780 --> 00:15:57,780 We hope they didn't. 272 00:15:57,780 --> 00:16:03,020 There was a reproducibility crisis in medicine and medical research, so we know that. 273 00:16:03,020 --> 00:16:08,620 But if they said the median was three in this group and in the other group it was 15 and 274 00:16:08,620 --> 00:16:13,020 the p-value was 0.001, that's fact that you can pull into your paper. 275 00:16:13,020 --> 00:16:17,980 There were differences found between the two groups and you want to make sure you do that. 276 00:16:17,980 --> 00:16:22,340 Now you don't want to say that it means that this group is always bad compared to this 277 00:16:22,340 --> 00:16:23,340 group. 278 00:16:23,340 --> 00:16:24,340 Now you're making judgments. 279 00:16:24,340 --> 00:16:27,580 They may have said that in the discussion because anybody can write whatever they want 280 00:16:27,580 --> 00:16:31,780 in the discussion, but you have to be careful pulling it into your paper. 281 00:16:31,780 --> 00:16:39,260 So my point is that make sure that you are making factual statements and supporting them 282 00:16:39,260 --> 00:16:41,180 with a citation. 283 00:16:41,180 --> 00:16:46,660 Sometimes what I see is that my mentee, one or two mentees, actually this is actually 284 00:16:46,660 --> 00:16:51,580 a common problem, so I'll say a lot of my mentees, will just write a statement and just 285 00:16:51,580 --> 00:16:53,580 slap a couple of citations on them. 286 00:16:53,580 --> 00:16:56,820 And then you go back to the citations, you're like, wait a minute, this citation doesn't 287 00:16:56,820 --> 00:16:58,780 ... it doesn't say that. 288 00:16:58,780 --> 00:17:00,940 It doesn't say that. 289 00:17:00,940 --> 00:17:02,940 Yeah, I know we're talking about this disease. 290 00:17:02,940 --> 00:17:07,500 Let's say we're talking about TTP and I know that this is a manuscript about TTP, but it 291 00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:09,580 doesn't support what you said. 292 00:17:09,580 --> 00:17:11,420 Why is this citation there? 293 00:17:11,420 --> 00:17:15,900 And that goes back to the whole thing about excellence. 294 00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:17,660 Don't put a citation. 295 00:17:17,660 --> 00:17:22,140 You didn't even really read, you didn't even really make sure that it actually supports 296 00:17:22,140 --> 00:17:23,140 your assertion. 297 00:17:23,140 --> 00:17:24,140 You just put it in there. 298 00:17:24,140 --> 00:17:27,500 You want to make sure it supports the assertion. 299 00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:31,700 Another thing that sometimes I see done is that someone will make a statement and then 300 00:17:31,700 --> 00:17:36,700 put 16 references and it's like, do you need 16 references? 301 00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:39,860 And do all 16 references actually fit? 302 00:17:39,860 --> 00:17:41,940 Already it arouses suspicion. 303 00:17:41,940 --> 00:17:45,020 It's like 16 references for this one statement? 304 00:17:45,020 --> 00:17:49,020 Now I have to go back and read all 16 because I'm suspicious. 305 00:17:49,020 --> 00:17:54,320 Okay, so I just want to make the point that you want to be factual about the statements 306 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,420 you make and you want to make sure that these statements actually come from other manuscripts. 307 00:17:58,420 --> 00:18:02,260 I mean, there's a part of the manuscript that's going to be your own data, which you can't 308 00:18:02,260 --> 00:18:03,260 cite anybody else. 309 00:18:03,260 --> 00:18:04,260 It's your data. 310 00:18:04,260 --> 00:18:07,660 You're now kind of developing your body of work that other people are going to cite. 311 00:18:07,660 --> 00:18:11,620 But every time, especially in the introduction, even in the methods and in the discussion 312 00:18:11,620 --> 00:18:14,900 where you say, well, somebody else did this and this is what they found. 313 00:18:14,900 --> 00:18:21,380 I want you to pay attention to being very factual about those things and not to add 314 00:18:21,380 --> 00:18:22,660 opinion as fact. 315 00:18:22,660 --> 00:18:23,660 Okay. 316 00:18:23,660 --> 00:18:24,780 I feel very strongly about this. 317 00:18:24,780 --> 00:18:25,780 Can you tell? 318 00:18:25,780 --> 00:18:26,780 Okay. 319 00:18:26,780 --> 00:18:30,340 Number four, draw conclusions carefully. 320 00:18:30,340 --> 00:18:33,940 Now this is something I've been learning and I want to say it's become very, it's become 321 00:18:33,940 --> 00:18:38,500 more intense in my learning over the last few weeks, especially because of certain public 322 00:18:38,500 --> 00:18:43,420 case, certain manuscripts that I sent out that the revise and resubmit was like a major, 323 00:18:43,420 --> 00:18:47,920 major, major resubmission or major, major, major revision. 324 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:53,300 What I recognize to be important is that if you're not sure, don't say you're sure. 325 00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:56,540 And this is a challenge for me because I like to be definitive. 326 00:18:56,540 --> 00:18:57,860 I like to say that I know. 327 00:18:57,860 --> 00:19:01,460 And in reality, there's a lot that's not known. 328 00:19:01,460 --> 00:19:07,000 And so it is important that you make it clear what your assertions are based on. 329 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,060 You can say the recommendations are that everybody should get a platelet transfusion and it's 330 00:19:11,060 --> 00:19:15,860 okay to say that, but it's also important to say, well, you know, there was this randomized 331 00:19:15,860 --> 00:19:17,940 trial that says everybody should get it. 332 00:19:17,940 --> 00:19:18,940 Great. 333 00:19:18,940 --> 00:19:21,580 Or you say, well, there were three case reports. 334 00:19:21,580 --> 00:19:25,380 And then I'm not sure that this is the right recommendation for all patients because we're 335 00:19:25,380 --> 00:19:27,980 not sure based on the case report, right? 336 00:19:27,980 --> 00:19:32,340 Based on the level of evidence, you can be a little bit more firm in your recommendation. 337 00:19:32,340 --> 00:19:35,960 And for the most part, I'm in hematology. 338 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,700 We don't have a lot of randomized control clinical trials that tell us this is exactly 339 00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:41,240 what you should do. 340 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:46,100 Even when we do, there are patients who stand before us who don't exactly fit. 341 00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:52,500 And therefore, when you come to putting your stake in the ground and saying, this is what 342 00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:57,940 is the interpretation of our data, be careful the way you word it. 343 00:19:57,940 --> 00:19:59,860 Don't say everybody should do this. 344 00:19:59,860 --> 00:20:01,380 And I've gotten dinged for that too. 345 00:20:01,380 --> 00:20:03,380 So this is something I'm learning. 346 00:20:03,380 --> 00:20:07,420 It's important to say based on this survey data, it may suggest that this is what people 347 00:20:07,420 --> 00:20:08,420 do. 348 00:20:08,420 --> 00:20:11,260 And that's okay to say this is what people do. 349 00:20:11,260 --> 00:20:13,700 Rather than saying based on survey data, everybody should do this. 350 00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:18,620 It's like, wait, the survey data can't let you feel so strongly about that recommendation. 351 00:20:18,620 --> 00:20:22,180 And so be tentative when necessary. 352 00:20:22,180 --> 00:20:27,340 And if you feel like you want to really lay down a recommendation, be very clear about 353 00:20:27,340 --> 00:20:30,420 what data allows you to be so confident. 354 00:20:30,420 --> 00:20:38,660 So when you draw conclusions, pay attention and be careful and be aware of your bias as 355 00:20:38,660 --> 00:20:39,660 well. 356 00:20:39,660 --> 00:20:43,180 So the example I gave earlier where there's a difference between two groups and you conclude 357 00:20:43,180 --> 00:20:45,820 that this is the bad group and that's the better group. 358 00:20:45,820 --> 00:20:47,460 There's a lot of that in science. 359 00:20:47,460 --> 00:20:50,500 That's interpretation, that's bias, it's not science. 360 00:20:50,500 --> 00:20:54,380 So be careful about the conclusions you draw because sometimes other people come to your 361 00:20:54,380 --> 00:20:58,620 paper and they just take those conclusions verbatim without really evaluating the work 362 00:20:58,620 --> 00:20:59,620 before them. 363 00:20:59,620 --> 00:21:04,060 So you be careful about the conclusions you draw and be careful about the conclusions 364 00:21:04,060 --> 00:21:05,300 other people are drawing too. 365 00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:10,060 Just because the discussion says this is the definitive strategy that we should use in 366 00:21:10,060 --> 00:21:12,220 this patient population doesn't mean you have to agree. 367 00:21:12,220 --> 00:21:15,700 You go back to the paper and you say, I don't know, but I'm drawing the same conclusions 368 00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:17,780 as you are from this data. 369 00:21:17,780 --> 00:21:22,460 So recognize that you are somebody who can make your own decisions about other people's 370 00:21:22,460 --> 00:21:26,900 data that could be different from the decisions that they're making as well. 371 00:21:26,900 --> 00:21:31,700 And so think about it as you draw conclusions in your own paper to make sure that you are 372 00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:35,180 drawing the appropriate conclusions based on the level of the evidence that you are 373 00:21:35,180 --> 00:21:36,180 presenting. 374 00:21:36,180 --> 00:21:42,020 Number five, and this is something I think that really surprises many of my mentees, 375 00:21:42,020 --> 00:21:44,380 is that this is an iterative process. 376 00:21:44,380 --> 00:21:46,340 Writing a manuscript is an iterative process. 377 00:21:46,340 --> 00:21:50,540 No, there is no manuscript where you write the first draft and the first draft is the 378 00:21:50,540 --> 00:21:51,740 final draft. 379 00:21:51,740 --> 00:21:53,700 It just doesn't happen that way. 380 00:21:53,700 --> 00:21:57,980 And that's because it takes a lot to build a manuscript. 381 00:21:57,980 --> 00:22:00,460 Creating a manuscript is creation. 382 00:22:00,460 --> 00:22:02,220 It's a creative process. 383 00:22:02,220 --> 00:22:07,660 You put something together and you delete half of it and then you're like, well, let's 384 00:22:07,660 --> 00:22:09,660 pull back a little bit more. 385 00:22:09,660 --> 00:22:11,820 And then you shape it. 386 00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:16,960 The final finished product looks nothing like what you started from. 387 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,820 It doesn't look anything like the first draft. 388 00:22:19,820 --> 00:22:21,420 And that's for a reason. 389 00:22:21,420 --> 00:22:26,460 It's important that it is that way because it's a creative process. 390 00:22:26,460 --> 00:22:29,620 And here's the thing, if you're writing by yourself, maybe you could sit down and in 391 00:22:29,620 --> 00:22:31,180 eight hours produce a paper. 392 00:22:31,180 --> 00:22:35,140 But if you're writing with other collaborators and especially if you're working with a senior 393 00:22:35,140 --> 00:22:40,100 person as the person who's the first author, if you're working with someone like me, I 394 00:22:40,100 --> 00:22:41,540 want to shape a paper with you. 395 00:22:41,540 --> 00:22:45,940 I'm not just going to accept what you give me as the final format because there are nuances 396 00:22:45,940 --> 00:22:47,740 to some of the things that we're talking about. 397 00:22:47,740 --> 00:22:49,300 There's some things that you're not aware of. 398 00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:54,340 There's some data that maybe are not yet pulled into the manuscript. 399 00:22:54,340 --> 00:22:58,300 So I'm saying that this is an iterative process. 400 00:22:58,300 --> 00:23:03,060 Do not expect your first draft to look anywhere near the final version. 401 00:23:03,060 --> 00:23:07,620 So if it's an iterative process, you have to expect that there will be back and forth, 402 00:23:07,620 --> 00:23:09,700 a lot of back and forth. 403 00:23:09,700 --> 00:23:14,540 I've had many a times when my mentees will say, Dr. Mimina, the paper is ready. 404 00:23:14,540 --> 00:23:18,180 And I'll read it and I'll say, great, great progress. 405 00:23:18,180 --> 00:23:19,820 And there's more. 406 00:23:19,820 --> 00:23:23,540 And then they'll submit again and they'll say, Dr. Mimina, it's ready now. 407 00:23:23,540 --> 00:23:28,860 And I read it and I'm like, oh, no, it's not. 408 00:23:28,860 --> 00:23:30,700 And that's because it's an iterative process. 409 00:23:30,700 --> 00:23:34,860 And I know how much it takes you to be able to sit down for those eight hours or five, 410 00:23:34,860 --> 00:23:38,500 or however many you spend pulling the manuscript together. 411 00:23:38,500 --> 00:23:41,580 And then you feel as if it's wasted time, if at the end it's not approved. 412 00:23:41,580 --> 00:23:44,860 I just want to say that if you're going to write a good manuscript, it's really going 413 00:23:44,860 --> 00:23:46,740 to take a lot of back and forth. 414 00:23:46,740 --> 00:23:49,200 And you have to expect that. 415 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,900 So make it your expectation that the manuscript is going to come back a few times to you and 416 00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:56,140 create space for that. 417 00:23:56,140 --> 00:23:59,680 And so this particular paper that I was talking about earlier, and we've been writing for 418 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:04,740 over a year, it's because my mentees don't really have as much time or they have not 419 00:24:04,740 --> 00:24:07,820 created the space to devote to this manuscript. 420 00:24:07,820 --> 00:24:09,860 And you can't really short circuit the process. 421 00:24:09,860 --> 00:24:13,520 So just because we started writing a year and a half ago, doesn't mean that I'm going 422 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,500 to get the paper and say, let's just accept it and let's just send it out. 423 00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:22,500 Because even excellent papers struggle in the publishing world. 424 00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:25,500 What more a paper that's not so good. 425 00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:30,780 And so you can't short circuit the time it takes to do the work of iteration, create 426 00:24:30,780 --> 00:24:32,300 space for it. 427 00:24:32,300 --> 00:24:37,300 And what's more valuable is time spent working on it regularly. 428 00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:42,920 So create regular intervals during your work week to move forward on the paper, other than 429 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,540 like the weekend binge, which honestly doesn't produce as many good things as we want it 430 00:24:47,540 --> 00:24:49,300 to produce. 431 00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:55,660 So it is an iterative process, have an expectation that it's iterative and create space so that 432 00:24:55,660 --> 00:25:00,180 you can continue to iterate and create space consistently and routinely. 433 00:25:00,180 --> 00:25:03,060 So it doesn't take three years to write one paper. 434 00:25:03,060 --> 00:25:08,180 And I'm not saying that in judgment because as clinicians we are so busy, but we've really 435 00:25:08,180 --> 00:25:13,580 got to begin to create space for consistent, sustained research writing. 436 00:25:13,580 --> 00:25:20,500 Otherwise, we're not going to grow the way we need to as writers, as communicators. 437 00:25:20,500 --> 00:25:22,180 Okay. 438 00:25:22,180 --> 00:25:28,060 Number six, is that the process starts with content, the process starts with content and 439 00:25:28,060 --> 00:25:29,860 it ends with details. 440 00:25:29,860 --> 00:25:32,660 It starts with content and it ends with details. 441 00:25:32,660 --> 00:25:33,660 What do I mean? 442 00:25:33,660 --> 00:25:37,780 When you first start pulling the manuscript together, it's really about, do you have all 443 00:25:37,780 --> 00:25:39,540 the content there? 444 00:25:39,540 --> 00:25:42,380 Let's say you're writing an original research manuscript. 445 00:25:42,380 --> 00:25:46,180 For the most part, the results help you shape the whole paper. 446 00:25:46,180 --> 00:25:50,760 So you want to make sure, is everything I need to include an introduction here? 447 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,960 Is everything I need to include in the methods here? 448 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,820 Is everything I need to include in the results here? 449 00:25:54,820 --> 00:25:58,240 Is everything I need to include in the discussion section here? 450 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,420 At first, you're just worried about content. 451 00:26:00,420 --> 00:26:04,260 And so I like for my mentees to give me an outline. 452 00:26:04,260 --> 00:26:07,820 They want to give me a first full draft and I'm like, I don't want a draft. 453 00:26:07,820 --> 00:26:09,460 I want an outline. 454 00:26:09,460 --> 00:26:12,620 The reason I want an outline is because I want to ask the question first. 455 00:26:12,620 --> 00:26:16,920 I want to answer the question, is the content here? 456 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,500 Now the problem with giving me a full draft is that now I'm like, is this grammar correct? 457 00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:23,740 These sentences structured appropriately? 458 00:26:23,740 --> 00:26:26,060 Is this the right logical flow? 459 00:26:26,060 --> 00:26:27,300 That's distraction. 460 00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:31,660 At the beginning, I just want to know, is everything on the page that needs to be on 461 00:26:31,660 --> 00:26:32,860 the page? 462 00:26:32,860 --> 00:26:37,740 So when you start this process, and this is why the first draft is so different from the 463 00:26:37,740 --> 00:26:42,960 final draft, because at the beginning, you're not worried about beauty or correctness or 464 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,740 even fact, not yet. 465 00:26:44,740 --> 00:26:45,740 You're just worried about content. 466 00:26:45,740 --> 00:26:47,600 Is everything here? 467 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,780 Everything we need to address is here? 468 00:26:49,780 --> 00:26:53,420 Did we bring everybody who's supposed to be at the party to the party? 469 00:26:53,420 --> 00:26:54,580 That's your first goal. 470 00:26:54,580 --> 00:26:55,920 That's the content goal. 471 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:56,920 Is everybody here? 472 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,100 Is every fact that needs to be addressed here? 473 00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:02,340 Is every result here? 474 00:27:02,340 --> 00:27:07,420 And then as you progress, you're focusing now more on making everything come together 475 00:27:07,420 --> 00:27:10,180 and flow beautifully. 476 00:27:10,180 --> 00:27:12,500 The most beautiful manuscripts, they just flow. 477 00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:13,500 They flow. 478 00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:14,540 It's like a dance. 479 00:27:14,540 --> 00:27:18,060 It's like water just moving about in a wave. 480 00:27:18,060 --> 00:27:19,060 They're beautifully written. 481 00:27:19,060 --> 00:27:23,340 And I know you've read a lot of manuscripts that are just like, oh my gosh, please get 482 00:27:23,340 --> 00:27:24,860 me to the end of this manuscript. 483 00:27:24,860 --> 00:27:25,860 I can't. 484 00:27:25,860 --> 00:27:27,180 I'm going to do the conflicts too much. 485 00:27:27,180 --> 00:27:29,300 You've read those manuscripts and I hope you're not writing them. 486 00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:31,900 I hope you're not settling for writing them. 487 00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:33,820 But a beautiful manuscript is the goal. 488 00:27:33,820 --> 00:27:36,420 I mean, we're not looking for perfection here. 489 00:27:36,420 --> 00:27:38,140 Goal is not perfection. 490 00:27:38,140 --> 00:27:39,900 Goal is to complete it. 491 00:27:39,900 --> 00:27:43,980 But we are looking for something that reads well, because you want your reader to read 492 00:27:43,980 --> 00:27:44,980 your manuscript. 493 00:27:44,980 --> 00:27:48,040 Have you ever had that experience where you start reading, you're like, I can't finish 494 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,340 this paper. 495 00:27:49,340 --> 00:27:52,060 Sometimes my mentees send me work and I'm like, I can't even read this. 496 00:27:52,060 --> 00:27:53,060 This is so bad. 497 00:27:53,060 --> 00:27:58,260 And I have to deal with my emotions and then give them quality feedback because that's 498 00:27:58,260 --> 00:27:59,260 what I do. 499 00:27:59,260 --> 00:28:00,960 But you start with content. 500 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,540 You don't care how the content is put together at first, but then you end up with something 501 00:28:05,540 --> 00:28:08,300 that flows beautifully for the reader to read. 502 00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:11,140 And at the very end, you're paying attention to details. 503 00:28:11,140 --> 00:28:12,980 Are the punctuations correct? 504 00:28:12,980 --> 00:28:14,540 Is the flow of logic perfect? 505 00:28:14,540 --> 00:28:16,340 I mean, maybe not perfect. 506 00:28:16,340 --> 00:28:18,540 I hate to use that word, but is it complete? 507 00:28:18,540 --> 00:28:20,340 Does this read well? 508 00:28:20,340 --> 00:28:23,380 Then you pay attention to detail. 509 00:28:23,380 --> 00:28:27,780 And so one of the things that I think I see challenges at both extremes, sometimes I see 510 00:28:27,780 --> 00:28:28,780 content is missing. 511 00:28:28,780 --> 00:28:32,700 I'm like, how can you talk about this important topic and you don't talk about one of the 512 00:28:32,700 --> 00:28:35,420 most important papers in this area? 513 00:28:35,420 --> 00:28:37,420 That's like missing content. 514 00:28:37,420 --> 00:28:41,860 So it takes completeness and it takes attention to detail to make sure all the content is 515 00:28:41,860 --> 00:28:42,860 there. 516 00:28:42,860 --> 00:28:47,300 So sometimes there are errors in bringing all the content to the table. 517 00:28:47,300 --> 00:28:50,140 And then sometimes this content that's like, is this really applicable? 518 00:28:50,140 --> 00:28:54,780 So it does take time to learn what content needs to come together. 519 00:28:54,780 --> 00:29:00,580 But then I also see mistakes on the detail end where things are missing that shouldn't 520 00:29:00,580 --> 00:29:03,780 be missing, where there's not a good proofreading. 521 00:29:03,780 --> 00:29:09,380 I mean, at this time in our lives, if we're using Microsoft Word or whatever word processing 522 00:29:09,380 --> 00:29:11,620 software we use, there is spell check. 523 00:29:11,620 --> 00:29:14,660 There is no reason ever to have errors in your document. 524 00:29:14,660 --> 00:29:16,900 Now that we have spell check, there's no reason. 525 00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:19,460 Please make use of spell check at a minimum. 526 00:29:19,460 --> 00:29:22,500 Sometimes before you send it out the door, you want to make sure you spell check. 527 00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:26,820 And yes, the spell check will catch the list of references with all these names and flag 528 00:29:26,820 --> 00:29:27,820 them as wrong. 529 00:29:27,820 --> 00:29:32,220 And it's very frustrating to go through it, but it's still worth doing just to make sure 530 00:29:32,220 --> 00:29:38,180 that your tired brain, which is not as scrupulous about catching these errors, can be helped 531 00:29:38,180 --> 00:29:41,180 by the word processing system. 532 00:29:41,180 --> 00:29:47,380 So yeah, detail orientation is just sometimes about making sure you're using the tools that 533 00:29:47,380 --> 00:29:49,220 are available to you. 534 00:29:49,220 --> 00:29:51,500 But it's also how do the figures look? 535 00:29:51,500 --> 00:29:52,740 It's also the font. 536 00:29:52,740 --> 00:29:55,140 Is the font the same throughout? 537 00:29:55,140 --> 00:29:59,220 Sometimes I'll get papers sent to me and the font for the introduction is different from 538 00:29:59,220 --> 00:30:03,300 the font for the methods. 539 00:30:03,300 --> 00:30:07,980 And then the pages are numbered and that font is different. 540 00:30:07,980 --> 00:30:09,280 It's frustrating. 541 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:16,140 And it's frustrating not because I'm trying to be annoying and nitpicky. 542 00:30:16,140 --> 00:30:22,820 It's frustrating because when a reader sees a manuscript that is nicely formatted, the 543 00:30:22,820 --> 00:30:24,180 font is all the same. 544 00:30:24,180 --> 00:30:26,780 The sizes are exactly as they need to be. 545 00:30:26,780 --> 00:30:30,620 There is a certain psychological release of stress that happens. 546 00:30:30,620 --> 00:30:35,220 It's like, okay, this is a nice paper to read. 547 00:30:35,220 --> 00:30:40,020 As opposed to when you get a paper and everything is everywhere and things are not organized 548 00:30:40,020 --> 00:30:44,340 and the font and the images is different from the font in the writing, it brings a certain 549 00:30:44,340 --> 00:30:46,780 amount of chaos to somebody's mind. 550 00:30:46,780 --> 00:30:49,500 They may not be thinking about it, but your paper makes them mad. 551 00:30:49,500 --> 00:30:52,820 The moment they look at it, they're already frustrated. 552 00:30:52,820 --> 00:30:54,500 You don't want that. 553 00:30:54,500 --> 00:31:00,340 You want to address the psychological background of the person reading your paper. 554 00:31:00,340 --> 00:31:04,700 Before they, they're not even thinking about this, but you're going to think about it for 555 00:31:04,700 --> 00:31:06,140 them because you're going to prepare. 556 00:31:06,140 --> 00:31:10,660 You're going to prepare by formatting and making things look good. 557 00:31:10,660 --> 00:31:13,800 Okay, that's the detail orientation. 558 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,420 That's number six. 559 00:31:15,420 --> 00:31:19,740 Number seven, you know the manuscript is ready for submission. 560 00:31:19,740 --> 00:31:24,220 When you look at the manuscript, you read it and you're like, this is a good, this is 561 00:31:24,220 --> 00:31:27,600 a good contribution and that's it. 562 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,420 You look at it and you're like, oh, this is good. 563 00:31:30,420 --> 00:31:34,140 Actually, you know what I really wanted to say is, damn, this is good. 564 00:31:34,140 --> 00:31:37,460 Yes, excuse my French. 565 00:31:37,460 --> 00:31:41,580 That's what I'm saying is after you've done all this work, you've invested a lot of time 566 00:31:41,580 --> 00:31:46,260 in the paper because any good paper requires time investment. 567 00:31:46,260 --> 00:31:49,820 You look back and you read it and you're like, oh yeah, this is good. 568 00:31:49,820 --> 00:31:50,820 This is good. 569 00:31:50,820 --> 00:31:54,980 Now, you know, your reviewers may look at it and be like, yep, this is crap and that's 570 00:31:54,980 --> 00:31:55,980 fine. 571 00:31:55,980 --> 00:31:56,980 That's their opinion. 572 00:31:56,980 --> 00:32:01,380 They're allowed to have their opinion, but if at any point in time you look at your manuscript 573 00:32:01,380 --> 00:32:03,820 and you don't think it's good, please do not submit it. 574 00:32:03,820 --> 00:32:04,820 Do not pass go. 575 00:32:04,820 --> 00:32:06,280 Do not collect 200. 576 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:10,100 Do not make another person read it because you don't think your work is good. 577 00:32:10,100 --> 00:32:14,300 Then there is no point sending it out to anybody else and asking them if this is good. 578 00:32:14,300 --> 00:32:18,580 And whatever it takes for you to get to a place where you're like, this is good work. 579 00:32:18,580 --> 00:32:20,700 That's exactly what you need to do. 580 00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:24,700 And many times I see like my mentees will write something and hope that it will work 581 00:32:24,700 --> 00:32:25,700 out. 582 00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:27,660 I hope I hope Dr. Remenow will fix this. 583 00:32:27,660 --> 00:32:31,500 And I'm like, no, if you will not give me your best work, it makes it harder for me 584 00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:36,020 to give you my best work because I'm going to be so distracted trying to fix your work. 585 00:32:36,020 --> 00:32:37,220 That's not your best work. 586 00:32:37,220 --> 00:32:42,620 I can't really get to the higher level of building on your on your best work. 587 00:32:42,620 --> 00:32:44,300 It's how you get good feedback. 588 00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:50,740 You submit your best as close as you can get, and then they give you their best feedback. 589 00:32:50,740 --> 00:32:56,220 But if you submit nonsense and you could have made it better, people are giving you feedback 590 00:32:56,220 --> 00:32:59,860 in areas where you already know you needed improvement. 591 00:32:59,860 --> 00:33:01,460 You submitted something that was full of typos. 592 00:33:01,460 --> 00:33:03,420 You knew the typos needed to be addressed. 593 00:33:03,420 --> 00:33:05,060 And then the reviewers come back to you. 594 00:33:05,060 --> 00:33:07,800 All they can give you feedback about is the typos. 595 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:08,800 It doesn't help you. 596 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,060 I mean, it makes the paper better, but that's stuff that you could have done without the 597 00:33:13,060 --> 00:33:14,120 reviewers. 598 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:20,700 So the feedback you want from anybody looking at your paper is feedback you can't give yourself. 599 00:33:20,700 --> 00:33:24,340 There is a fine line with, you know, getting to the point of submission and not not trying 600 00:33:24,340 --> 00:33:25,340 to be perfect. 601 00:33:25,340 --> 00:33:27,000 It's not about perfection. 602 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,940 You look at your work like this is good work. 603 00:33:28,940 --> 00:33:30,180 Let's submit it. 604 00:33:30,180 --> 00:33:34,900 If you look at your work and you don't think it's good work, and it's not ready for submission, 605 00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:36,220 that is the summary. 606 00:33:36,220 --> 00:33:37,220 All right. 607 00:33:37,220 --> 00:33:38,220 I talked about seven things. 608 00:33:38,220 --> 00:33:41,340 Number one, writing a manuscript is about making a contribution. 609 00:33:41,340 --> 00:33:43,300 Number two, bring your excellence. 610 00:33:43,300 --> 00:33:47,660 Number three, make factual statements carefully and add citations. 611 00:33:47,660 --> 00:33:49,860 Number four, draw conclusions carefully. 612 00:33:49,860 --> 00:33:53,860 Number five, expect feedback to be iterative. 613 00:33:53,860 --> 00:33:57,540 Number six, it starts with content and ends with detail. 614 00:33:57,540 --> 00:34:01,580 Number seven, when you look at the manuscript and you're proud of what you wrote, it is 615 00:34:01,580 --> 00:34:02,580 ready. 616 00:34:02,580 --> 00:34:03,580 All right. 617 00:34:03,580 --> 00:34:06,620 I want to tell you today, as always, if you're looking for a coach, I'm always here to help 618 00:34:06,620 --> 00:34:10,780 you, especially as you think about how do you manage mentees within your research program? 619 00:34:10,780 --> 00:34:13,380 You want them, you love them, but they overwhelm you. 620 00:34:13,380 --> 00:34:15,500 You're like, I'm better off doing it by myself. 621 00:34:15,500 --> 00:34:19,100 I want to say you are never better off doing it by yourself because you are only better 622 00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:20,620 off when you multiply yourself. 623 00:34:20,620 --> 00:34:22,460 And yes, it takes work and investment. 624 00:34:22,460 --> 00:34:26,420 Yes, it takes you longer, but it's always absolutely worth it. 625 00:34:26,420 --> 00:34:28,620 And you want to choose your mentees carefully. 626 00:34:28,620 --> 00:34:29,620 All right. 627 00:34:29,620 --> 00:34:33,540 I'll add more when you reach out to me and let me know how I can help you. 628 00:34:33,540 --> 00:34:34,540 All right. 629 00:34:34,540 --> 00:34:35,660 It's been a pleasure talking with you today. 630 00:34:35,660 --> 00:34:37,180 Thank you so much for tuning in. 631 00:34:37,180 --> 00:34:41,900 I look forward to talking with you again next time on the Clinician Researcher Podcast. 632 00:34:41,900 --> 00:34:54,180 Thank you for listening. 633 00:34:54,180 --> 00:34:59,540 Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academically 634 00:34:59,540 --> 00:35:04,940 clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they 635 00:35:04,940 --> 00:35:06,300 have a mentor. 636 00:35:06,300 --> 00:35:12,420 If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself. 637 00:35:12,420 --> 00:35:14,140 Someone else needs to hear it. 638 00:35:14,140 --> 00:35:18,220 So take a minute right now and share it. 639 00:35:18,220 --> 00:35:23,660 As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation 640 00:35:23,660 --> 00:35:29,460 of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare. 641 00:35:29,460 --> 00:35:30,460 Thank you. 642 00:35:30,460 --> 00:35:59,700 Take care.