1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills 2 00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260 to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 3 00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340 As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients. 4 00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380 When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find 5 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780 that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research 6 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200 program. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480 Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit. 8 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580 However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs. 9 00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200 For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800 the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,120 Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene. 12 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,840 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast. 13 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:09,120 I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is always a pleasure to be talking with you today. 14 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,520 Thank you so much for tuning in. 15 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,080 Today I'm talking about making it up as you go along. 16 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,960 Yes, I am talking about making it up as you go along. 17 00:01:17,960 --> 00:01:21,080 No, I'm not asking you to falsify data. 18 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,320 I'm not asking you to fletch the books. 19 00:01:23,320 --> 00:01:26,920 I'm talking about creating your career in motion. 20 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:33,720 You know, I've heard the phrase, you are kind of strapping on the doors as the car is driving 21 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:34,720 down the highway. 22 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:40,840 So the sense that you are building it in motion, that's what I'm talking about. 23 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:46,000 Creating your career journey while you are on the road. 24 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:51,760 The reason I thought to bring you this episode today is because of a conversation I had earlier 25 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:52,760 today. 26 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:53,760 Actually, it wasn't a conversation. 27 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:54,760 It was a conversation I observed. 28 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:55,840 So I didn't have it. 29 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:57,240 I observed it. 30 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:02,620 And we were at a, you know, one of our career development sessions and people are bringing 31 00:02:02,620 --> 00:02:07,040 updates about their careers and things that were happening, what challenges they were 32 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:08,040 facing. 33 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:13,960 And this particular young investigator said, you know, I am struggling to find the mentoring 34 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:19,120 I need at my institution, but I'm trying to submit this career development award. 35 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:25,200 And how do I make the case for mentorship when I don't have it? 36 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,200 And the advice came from different angles. 37 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:33,880 And one of the things I wanted to share but didn't because I just, you know, it was one 38 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,040 of those things where it was like, this is a thought in my head, but there's so many 39 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:38,840 other people giving recommendations. 40 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,000 I'm not going to come forward and say it. 41 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:42,920 I ended up not sharing. 42 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:44,880 And to be honest, I don't remember who the person was. 43 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:45,880 It's not, it's a big group. 44 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,640 So I don't know people as that closely. 45 00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:53,600 But the thought I did have in my mind and what I want to share as we go into this topic 46 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:59,480 about making it up as you go along is that, you know what, most people struggle with mentorship. 47 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:00,920 And this is not just my thought. 48 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:04,120 This is empirically proven. 49 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,040 Lots of articles have been written about the challenges of mentorship. 50 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,480 Nobody needs to write an article about it for you to know that it really is a big problem. 51 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,520 Very few of us are super excited to celebrate our mentors. 52 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:21,200 Most of us are like, well, yeah, they did okay. 53 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:25,400 And then there are many of us that are like, well, I just don't feel like I had them. 54 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:32,140 And so I wanted to say, and I am saying to you right now that the problem with mentoring 55 00:03:32,140 --> 00:03:34,280 is a ubiquitous problem. 56 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:39,840 Like this is not like we just woke up in the 21st century and we're like, oh, we're lacking 57 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:40,840 mentors. 58 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,800 This has been an issue for a long time. 59 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,920 And the challenge is when we see people who are successful, we assume that, oh yeah, they 60 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:48,920 had great mentoring. 61 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,000 Of course they're successful. 62 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:55,620 And in reality, most people have struggled like we have struggled. 63 00:03:55,620 --> 00:03:59,760 And many of the people who succeeded have succeeded not because they got the golden 64 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:04,040 spoon in their mouth, but really because they struggled to make it work. 65 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,840 And because of that, they were able to forge their own way. 66 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:15,680 So if so many people are struggling with mentorship, how is anybody succeeding? 67 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:22,840 I am so glad you asked because the answer, at least for today's episode, is because they 68 00:04:22,840 --> 00:04:25,840 are making it up as they go along. 69 00:04:25,840 --> 00:04:30,280 And that is what I want to talk to you about today. 70 00:04:30,280 --> 00:04:36,880 Number one, they're making it up so you should too. 71 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:43,880 So the reality is that nobody has a perfect idea of what their career is going to look 72 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:44,960 like. 73 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,080 Nobody does because nobody can tell the future. 74 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:52,200 And so this fallacy of, hey, where will you be in five years? 75 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:53,920 It's not entirely true. 76 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:54,920 Of course you don't know. 77 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,100 You have no idea. 78 00:04:57,100 --> 00:05:02,600 And I hope you don't know because how then will you be open to take advantage of opportunities 79 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,200 as they come your way? 80 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:12,520 Part of life is that it's a beautiful tapestry of serendipity and beautiful things happening, 81 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:17,240 opportunities opening up to you that you take and walk through and totally transform your 82 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:18,760 career. 83 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,400 And so no, you can't look forward into the future and say in exactly 10 years, I will 84 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,800 be doing XYZ. 85 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,400 And I'm not saying you shouldn't say what you're going to be doing in 10 years because everybody's 86 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:29,400 asking you. 87 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,440 And of course you've got to have something to say. 88 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,240 It's like when you're a kid and people ask you, what are you going to be when you grow 89 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:35,240 up? 90 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,760 Of course you're not going to say, I have no idea. 91 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:44,360 Even if you start out that way after several asks and years later, you know to make up 92 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,640 a story, I'm going to be a fireman, right? 93 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,500 Because people prefer to hear something than to hear nothing. 94 00:05:51,500 --> 00:05:54,320 So yes, when they ask you, where are you going to be in 10 years? 95 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,640 Just do the math and say, how long does it take to get the promotion? 96 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,240 Oh yeah, I'll be an associate professor. 97 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:01,600 What is your institution value? 98 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:02,600 Oh yeah, yeah. 99 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,320 I will have three labs and 17 R01s. 100 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,040 Yeah, absolutely in 10 years. 101 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:09,040 You should say that. 102 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,360 I mean, I'm not saying you should make up a story, but I'm saying that you should just 103 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:19,120 look into the future, project, decide where people are, usually 10 years with these projections, 104 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:24,980 and tell them, tell them what they probably want to hear, but just recognize that nobody 105 00:06:24,980 --> 00:06:28,880 knows the future, not to any level of detail. 106 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:35,480 Now here's the caveat I do want to give to that is that you are an academic, right? 107 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,020 You are a scholar. 108 00:06:37,020 --> 00:06:41,160 And so producing scholarly work is your job. 109 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:45,880 And in reality, the more scholarly work you produce, the more opportunities you tend to 110 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:50,960 get, as long as people know and read about or hear about your scholarship. 111 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,320 And I hope you're the one telling them about your scholarship, because if you're not, then 112 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,840 nobody is telling them about your scholarship. 113 00:06:56,840 --> 00:07:00,240 And maybe in 20, 30 years, they'll be able to talk about your scholarship. 114 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,120 But if you don't talk about your scholarship today, it's not likely that anybody's going 115 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,760 to be talking about you. 116 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:11,800 So there are some primary components that matter. 117 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:13,060 Publishing matters. 118 00:07:13,060 --> 00:07:16,240 And it matters not necessarily because it's publishing, but because it's one avenue of 119 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,520 disseminating your work. 120 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:19,520 Giving talks matter. 121 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:25,120 Again, it's another avenue of disseminating your work, showing up in spaces, going for 122 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:30,000 interviews, attending, like, you know, giving podcast interviews, all the things that allow 123 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,000 you to move forward. 124 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,340 Those are the things that really help to advance your career. 125 00:07:35,340 --> 00:07:39,380 And the more you do that, the more you're known for the work you do, the more people 126 00:07:39,380 --> 00:07:43,400 have an idea of what you do, the more opportunities will come to you. 127 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,720 And so, okay, yeah, if you keep doing the right things in terms of checking all the 128 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:53,440 boxes as far as your research and your writing and publishing and applying for grants, yeah, 129 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:57,000 in five years, I could see you becoming an associate professor. 130 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:58,000 I could see that. 131 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,840 Or maybe you're an associate professor now. 132 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:06,040 Yeah, I could see if you gave that up, kept working and moving the needle on your research 133 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,280 and submitting manuscripts and getting them published. 134 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,760 I could see how in five years you could totally be a full professor. 135 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:13,520 Yeah, I could see that. 136 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,480 And you should say that when they say five years from now. 137 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:16,480 Where will you be? 138 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:17,480 Do the math. 139 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:18,480 Say, I'm publishing daily. 140 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:19,480 I'm doing this. 141 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,000 Therefore, I'm going to be XYZ. 142 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,720 Do all of that and recognize that it's all one big farce. 143 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,760 It's just a lie because I don't know the future. 144 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:29,920 I have no idea. 145 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:34,080 I'm just, you know, doing what I'm supposed to do today and hoping for the best. 146 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,080 I have no idea what's going to happen tomorrow. 147 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:41,480 And I'm glad I don't because opportunities are coming my way. 148 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:46,840 And if I have a fixed mindset as to what the future looks like, then I will not recognize 149 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:51,280 opportunity when it comes and slots me in the face. 150 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:57,940 And so my point is that nobody knows what they're doing. 151 00:08:57,940 --> 00:09:02,600 When you look back and you write the story and the more you write these personal statements, 152 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:07,560 the more you write these applications, the better you get at telling an elaborate story 153 00:09:07,560 --> 00:09:12,760 of how of course you knew that in the future carbon dating will become really important 154 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,200 and therefore you invented it before it was even a thing. 155 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:17,840 Okay, I made that up. 156 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:19,860 That's just just a made up story. 157 00:09:19,860 --> 00:09:27,560 But my point is that you can tell the story much better, much sweeter, much tighter in 158 00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:28,560 retrospect. 159 00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:33,280 And so when we look forward to these amazing people who we are calling our mentors, who 160 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:38,720 are calling our sponsors, and they are great people, they've gone through a lot, they've 161 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:45,000 succeeded a lot, they did not write this career path for themselves. 162 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:49,480 They happen to be doing the things they were supposed to do, hopefully, being in the right 163 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:54,560 place at the right time and opportunity came and they took advantage of it. 164 00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:58,720 And when you look back, they can make a good story out of it. 165 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,720 But looking forward, they had no idea what opportunities were coming. 166 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:09,160 And so the people we look up to and we admire so greatly, they really are making it up. 167 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:10,360 Everybody is making it up. 168 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,140 Nobody knows what's going to happen. 169 00:10:13,140 --> 00:10:19,960 And so just recognize that everybody is making it up and you should too. 170 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,080 Okay, you should be making it up too is number two. 171 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:28,580 Okay, well, so if people are just kind of making up their future as they go along, well, 172 00:10:28,580 --> 00:10:30,240 why wouldn't you do the same thing? 173 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,560 You're like, oh, no, no, no, it's too risky. 174 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:38,080 Oh, no, no, no, I need someone to hold me by the hand and show me where to go. 175 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,440 But when you find out that the people who are holding you by the hand also don't know 176 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:49,520 where they're going, are you going to keep holding their hand? 177 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:56,800 Or do you consider letting go and making your own path? 178 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:03,820 Would you consider letting go of the person who seems certain but is actually not and 179 00:11:03,820 --> 00:11:08,920 creating your own path for your own future? 180 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:13,200 Again, nobody knows where they're going. 181 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:18,080 Everybody has a sense of where they'd like to push towards and people are making their 182 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:19,320 way towards that. 183 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:20,320 And that's good. 184 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:21,360 You should do that. 185 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,000 You know you want to lead scholarship. 186 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:28,120 You should continue to do that and push forward towards a successful career in scholarship. 187 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,880 You should be working to write manuscripts and publish them. 188 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,760 Please do all those things. 189 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:39,400 And recognize that even when you're doing all those things, opportunities will come 190 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,360 and you want to be ready to seize them. 191 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:48,300 But it is harder if you have in your mind what your career should look like because 192 00:11:48,300 --> 00:11:53,760 you have a mentor before you who looks like they've lived a perfect life and in fact they 193 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:54,760 haven't. 194 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,920 They're not telling you about all the failed opportunities. 195 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:02,280 They're not telling you about how they had to pivot when one major project failed. 196 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:07,400 They're not telling you because you know somehow we have an amnesia when it comes to those 197 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:08,400 kinds of stories. 198 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:15,320 It's like yeah I forgot how miserably I failed now that I'm a successful tenured professor. 199 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:16,320 Right? 200 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:21,080 I mean it's easy to forget but in reality everybody has those moments of challenges 201 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,480 that they've experienced in their career. 202 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:29,720 They didn't know how it was going to work out and they took risks and it did work out. 203 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:34,280 And so if other people are making it up, you should be making it up too. 204 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,920 And that is number two. 205 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:44,520 Number three is that when you make it up, better make up a good story. 206 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,240 Make up a good story. 207 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:54,480 Okay so have you ever sat and had a thought and in before you knew it, 10 minutes, 12 208 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:59,880 minutes, 13 minutes later you found yourself, you imagined yourself dead somewhere in the 209 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:00,880 middle of nowhere. 210 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:01,880 Nobody knows where you are. 211 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:07,440 It's like the starkest, ugliest, terriblest imagination that you could have. 212 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:08,440 Right? 213 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,680 You totally, I don't know, maybe this doesn't happen to you. 214 00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:13,560 Your mind is so beautiful, so perfect, so pure. 215 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:15,200 You don't have dark thoughts, right? 216 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,360 But it does happen to me where I'm sitting down and I hear a scream and immediately my 217 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:24,000 mind goes to oh that must be someone who's getting harmed right now and the person who's 218 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,640 harming them is going to come and they're going to find me and it just, and I'm like 219 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:28,640 how did I get there? 220 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,020 How did that train of thought, what? 221 00:13:31,020 --> 00:13:32,920 It was just a scream. 222 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:39,560 But that happens not infrequently where our minds are spinning these ugly tales of disaster. 223 00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:42,120 And so if our minds do that when they're unfettered, right? 224 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,800 Kind of like the weeds, they just grow everywhere. 225 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:51,880 What could your mind look like if you actually cultivated it so that it would have thoughts 226 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,840 that moved your future into a place you actually want it to be? 227 00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:01,560 So what if you could create in your mind an amazing future? 228 00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:06,880 What if you stopped imagining a future where you have no grant funding, you can't pay 229 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,140 your salary and they fire you? 230 00:14:09,140 --> 00:14:15,720 What if you stopped imagining that future and instead started imagining a future where 231 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:23,240 you are successfully funded, you run a large enough lab full of people, they help you do 232 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:28,520 the work that you need to do to move forward, you are well known in your field, people are 233 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:34,200 so excited to have you and yes you have three or four side businesses that bring you millions 234 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,920 of dollars in revenue every day. 235 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,560 Yeah I just added that in there because why not? 236 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:40,560 Right? 237 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,720 Why not imagine a great future for yourself? 238 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,440 Why not imagine the impossible? 239 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,320 Because it all starts with imagination. 240 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,760 Yep that's number four. 241 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:58,120 If you're going to make it up, you want to start first with imagination and already I've 242 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:05,080 talked about how our imagination when they're not disciplined they tend to go everywhere 243 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:12,160 and do all sorts of things and if you're really disciplined about creating a future you want 244 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:19,240 or working towards a future you want you first you first have to imagine the future. 245 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:23,640 You've got to imagine it, you've got to think okay this is where I want to go and then that's 246 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,600 where you go and in reality you've done this a lot. 247 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:32,200 If you are a clinician listening to me, you went through med school, you did the residency 248 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:37,640 thing, you did all of that fellowship, you did all the training until you could get no 249 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:45,360 more training and then you had to graduate, you did all that and you already know how 250 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:51,680 to do it because you first of all imagined a future where you were you were the one you 251 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:56,120 were the senior resident being congratulated on three great years of internal medicine 252 00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:00,120 fellowship of internal medicine residency. 253 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:06,320 You imagined it and you went about creating it and so the future you want for yourself 254 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:12,360 is an imagination away and I'm not being flippant I'm not saying just imagine your future and 255 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,160 that's where it is. 256 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:19,160 You imagine a future that you can work towards because without seeing where you're going 257 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:25,720 without having a sense of where you're going you can't make the investments to get there. 258 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:32,320 It's like having a GPS and you don't know the destination you're not really going to 259 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,880 make much traction you could do a lot of great driving. 260 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:41,600 You have no idea what the destination is and the GPS can't help you in that way. 261 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:48,120 Likewise you're imagining an amazing future for your career is the GPS that allows you 262 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:53,480 to begin to navigate in that direction because don't get me wrong as much as I'm saying 263 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:59,320 you should make it up as you go along life is not the kind of thing where you just coast 264 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:04,760 and you hope that it's going to work out because you've been dreaming it it's not like that. 265 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:09,920 It's the imagination that gives you the power and the strength to do the work that's necessary 266 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,560 to achieve the outcome that you desire right. 267 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,040 It's the step by step process. 268 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:21,280 I imagine I want to go to med school what does that mean well it means I study hard 269 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:25,320 right it means I take the MCATS I don't know if people are still taking the MCATS these 270 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:32,040 days but bear with me right you you you're like I want to go to med school I see myself 271 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:37,780 wearing that white coat walking down these hallowed halls at Harvard I see myself doing 272 00:17:37,780 --> 00:17:41,040 that well you're going to apply there right you're not going to say well I see myself 273 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:46,680 walking there but why don't I not apply and see what happens. 274 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:52,800 That's why imagination is so powerful because it is the first step in getting us to a destination 275 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:58,620 that sometimes seems impossible or rare because how am I going to make it I've never seen 276 00:17:58,620 --> 00:18:07,000 anyone like me before do that and so I'm inviting you I am inviting you to first of all imagine 277 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:14,800 it and give yourself to imagining an amazing amazing amazing future. 278 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:20,800 The next thing I want to say is that please do the imagining and then go do the work go 279 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:27,000 do the work and now I'm talking to an audience that's largely cognition so doing work is 280 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:32,880 something you are great at but here's the problem doing work is something you are great 281 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:38,400 at it is both the gift and the problem. 282 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:44,120 The reason it's the gift is because it's because you're here and the only reason you're here 283 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:50,120 the only the only way you're here whatever it is that you do the only way you're here 284 00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:55,800 is because you've put in a lot of hard work and effort into it but the challenge also 285 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,000 is that the only reason you're here is because you put a lot of hard work and effort into 286 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:04,520 it and for many of us clinicians we spend a lot of time and energy doing the things 287 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:10,120 we actually don't really care about other things our employers don't really care about 288 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:16,840 right we're we're good at working hard but not always good at distinguishing what we 289 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:22,520 should be working hard at and so as we're considering the fact that we are making up 290 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:29,160 this career yes let's daydream yes let's imagine the future and then we have to take the steps 291 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,880 to make it happen you've got to take the steps to make it possible it doesn't happen without 292 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:41,920 hard work but then you have to ask yourself well okay imagining a future versus like you 293 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:49,400 know just going for it and just you know doing the work without imagination what's the different 294 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:56,520 and the realities that both are needed your imagination helps you be clear about what 295 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:01,640 you're building towards and it gives you courage an opportunity to begin to build so that you 296 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:09,080 can head in that direction and so imagination matters and work matters and it's not just 297 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:15,040 about the work it's about doing the right work the work that actually moves you in the 298 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:21,480 right direction and that brings me to the last one number five and that is do work that 299 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:29,400 matters do work that matters as physicians we are good at working we are good at being 300 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:34,880 busy every day people ask us how are you doing oh we're busy we are so good at that how can 301 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:39,320 you be busy every day if you're busy every day well why are you busy when are you not 302 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:45,880 going to be busy and the truth is that we're busy every day but we are also busy doing 303 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:51,800 the things that are not priorities for us the things that honestly if someone said would 304 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,600 you pay me so that you can do this you would say oh no please i'm keeping my money i'm 305 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:02,360 not paying you to do this and so in reality there's so much that we're doing that we wouldn't 306 00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:08,160 even pay to do and we're just doing it because you know it's just us and it's just our time 307 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:14,920 that kind of thing but at the end of the day it's it's uh it's costing you it's costing 308 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:19,960 you to be so busy it's costing you to do all the running around it's costing you to invest 309 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:30,980 time and work that is not relevant to your forward motion but yeah you've got to do that 310 00:21:30,980 --> 00:21:36,400 because ultimately ultimately i'm talking about making it up as you go along and the 311 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:41,160 reality is that people people have already done that they've i mean they look so great 312 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:47,200 but they made it up they made it up and if they made it up you're looking to them trying 313 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:54,640 to chart the same exact career path that they have for yourself you'll be so frustrated 314 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:59,880 if you chose if you chose to be in position to take advantage of every opportunity as 315 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:07,400 it comes wow what an adventure that would be and in reality you're already in an adventure 316 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,840 yes you are you may not want to acknowledge it you may be playing it safe the whole time 317 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:19,040 but in reality this is an adventure that you are on you are on a wild ride and i sincerely 318 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:24,680 hope you're enjoying it as you look at all those people on the roller coaster and there 319 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,000 are people who are screaming and puking their eyes out because they're not having a good 320 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:34,240 time they're so anxious they're afraid and i'm not saying there's anything wrong with 321 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:40,320 that it's just you could either be scared silly or you just relax and really have a 322 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:50,000 fun amazing great ride and that's what i'm encouraging you to do today is to have a great 323 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:56,920 ride don't let other people tell you what kind of career you should have yes i get it 324 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,040 i get that there are these milestones the assistant professor associate i get those 325 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:08,840 milestones i pursue them myself but those are not the stuff from which life is made 326 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:16,000 that those are not the things that make life sweet the things that make life amazing the 327 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,680 opportunities that come that you would never have been able to take advantage of except 328 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:27,040 that you gave yourself a little bit of room to imagine possibility and so when it came 329 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:38,120 you recognized it and you took it you took it on so i um i just wanna i wanna celebrate 330 00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:44,320 you i wanna celebrate you because you really are creating something new even though you're 331 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:49,120 seeking what is certain you're seeking the person who can guarantee you this will be 332 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:57,560 your life for the next two years without change the reality is that it's always changing always 333 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:06,400 changing always changing yeah anyway so i just wanna encourage you that if you're frustrated 334 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:11,120 you can't find a mentor just realize that you know what many people couldn't do and 335 00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:16,320 they sort of they just made it and just decide that you're gonna make it too and start looking 336 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:22,000 around and asking who else can help me especially if they are not in the clinical space who 337 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:28,520 else can help me all right i'm gonna pause right there and i'm gonna just um celebrate 338 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:34,240 you for being here with me today thank you so much for listening until the end i am so 339 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:40,320 honored so pumped and so excited to be bringing you the next episode sometime in the near 340 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:46,280 future all right it's been a pleasure talking with you today so glad that you're here and 341 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:53,040 i look forward to the next time that we can speak again on the clinician researcher podcast 342 00:24:53,040 --> 00:25:07,080 thank you so much thanks for listening to this episode of the clinician researcher podcast 343 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:12,360 where academic clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program whether 344 00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:18,400 or not they have a mentor if you found the information in this episode to be helpful 345 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:24,920 don't keep it all to yourself someone else needs to hear it so take a minute right now 346 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:31,000 and share it as you share this episode you become part of our mission to help launch 347 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:36,680 a new generation of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change 348 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:42,840 the way we do health care