1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,960 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast. 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,400 I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,520 to be talking with you today. 4 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:09,900 Today I'm talking about a topic that I find 5 00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:12,840 to be very important and very serious. 6 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:17,840 And it's about why you must choose to live differently. 7 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:21,800 And I think it's so important 8 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:23,760 that I actually say why you must. 9 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,360 And I feel very strongly about it. 10 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:26,920 And I just wanna let you know upfront 11 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,160 that perhaps this is a little biased, 12 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,960 but I hope that you'll take some time and listen 13 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,080 and see for yourself how much you agree or disagree. 14 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,680 And I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions as well. 15 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,260 But yes, I'm talking about why you must choose 16 00:00:41,260 --> 00:00:42,960 to live differently. 17 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,020 One of the reasons that I share this is because 18 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,000 when I started my faculty career 19 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,600 and I was very, very big on moving forward into research, 20 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,920 what I didn't realize is that it's not the norm 21 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,520 for clinicians to do research. 22 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,980 And it's not the norm because we spent a ton of time 23 00:00:59,980 --> 00:01:01,560 doing clinical training. 24 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,440 And although people say, well, 25 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,440 every clinician should be doing research 26 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:07,560 or should be doing some type of scholarship, 27 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:08,840 they're not really saying clinicians 28 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,600 should be leading research programs. 29 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,800 And if they're seeing that, 30 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,160 there's a lot of what I should say 31 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,520 is lack of support for that idea. 32 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,160 And so just because people say 33 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,640 we support clinicians doing research, 34 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,480 the real question is, is there a show of support? 35 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,240 And as I came through on my journey, 36 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:30,200 I didn't have support. 37 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:31,640 I didn't realize I didn't have support. 38 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,760 I didn't realize what was needed 39 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,600 to build a research career. 40 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,080 And that is financial support, 41 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,840 institutional support, and mentoring support. 42 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,200 There are all kinds of support to really get someone 43 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,320 to really succeed as a researcher. 44 00:01:45,320 --> 00:01:46,400 Now, don't get me wrong, 45 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,360 clinicians have a lot of support. 46 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,960 They have a lot of support to do their clinical work 47 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:52,640 to a great extent, 48 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,080 but not so much support to do research. 49 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,760 And so even when institutions say, 50 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,640 well, we want our clinicians to do researchers, 51 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,680 when they don't supply them with the time 52 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:03,960 to do the research, 53 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:05,800 it's actually the same as if you were saying, 54 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:06,840 I don't support you, 55 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:08,000 except you say I support you, 56 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,600 but then you don't give people the support they need. 57 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:11,880 And when I started, I thought, 58 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,200 oh, okay, maybe this was unique to me. 59 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:15,200 But now that I look around, 60 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,520 I realized that this is the norm. 61 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:18,480 And more often than not, 62 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,200 clinicians are not supported to lead research. 63 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,680 And it makes sense because, say, 64 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:28,400 clinicians, they're trained to do patient care, 65 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,560 and patient care and research are not the same thing. 66 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,600 They are very, very different. 67 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,520 And so then any clinician that says, 68 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,160 well, I want to lead a research program, 69 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:39,760 is really doing things differently, 70 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,760 is really saying, I want to choose to live differently. 71 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:48,760 And living differently is challenging. 72 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:53,400 And I'm gonna talk a little bit about the challenges 73 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:54,640 of living differently, 74 00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:56,480 but why you must take on the challenge 75 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:57,840 of living differently. 76 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,480 And I'm talking to clinicians who are growing as scientists 77 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:06,240 and also bucking the trend to a great extent, 78 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:11,240 because if you are going to live out a career 79 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:13,400 that is fulfilling, 80 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,520 you're gonna do what's not status quo, 81 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,440 because status quo is fine. 82 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:20,560 I mean, status quo is fine, 83 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:22,280 except that there's more. 84 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,680 And if we've already seen something, 85 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,880 then we desire something new, 86 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:28,960 something better, something greater. 87 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:30,880 And so if, for whatever reason, 88 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,400 we're able to help patients control their blood sugars, 89 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,240 we know that we can do more. 90 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,960 How much more can we improve on diabetes care, right? 91 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,200 And so it's one thing to see patients clinically, 92 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:43,280 it's another thing to say, well, 93 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,000 what's the next frontier 94 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,280 in terms of the fight against diabetes? 95 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,680 How do we make things better? 96 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,520 And so living differently really does mean 97 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,520 rejecting the status quo, 98 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:55,880 but that's the space, 99 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,440 that's a place in which we get to fulfillment, absolutely. 100 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,320 And as clinicians and people 101 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,680 who've gone through clinical training, 102 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:09,640 we've fought or to some extent, 103 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,080 we've transformed all along our journey, right? 104 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:13,920 We started as medical students 105 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,280 and we transformed on the journey to become interns. 106 00:04:17,280 --> 00:04:19,720 We transformed from interns to residents. 107 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,680 We transformed from residents to faculty members 108 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,040 and the transformation has to continue. 109 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:29,760 Because when it doesn't, 110 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,040 then we feel stagnant and stuck 111 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,200 because for at least 10 years or more of our experience, 112 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,720 we've transformed every few years. 113 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,360 And so transformation is part of our physician experience, 114 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,400 but staying the same 115 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,440 sometimes is the expectation of our environment. 116 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:47,920 And if we're going to thrive, 117 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:49,880 if we're going to do things, 118 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,000 if we're gonna have a successful and fulfilling career, 119 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,320 we do need to choose to do things differently. 120 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,480 Okay, so I wanna just talk about seven things 121 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,120 that you should think about about living differently. 122 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,880 Okay, so the first thing I wanna talk about 123 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:10,880 is the fact that we live in a cultural milieu. 124 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,320 We live in our own culture, 125 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,280 we're surrounded by culture. 126 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:18,960 And whether we accept what the culture, 127 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,800 whether we accept the norms of the culture or not, 128 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,000 we are kind of subject to or bound by the culture 129 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,040 in some way, shape or form. 130 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:31,400 And culture has been said to be like a conversation 131 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,600 between two fish and one fish asks, 132 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,040 well, how's the water? 133 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:40,560 And the other fish is like, water, what water? 134 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:45,560 And it's the obliviousness to what defines 135 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:47,280 our very environment. 136 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:51,440 It's like the culture is everything around us 137 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,480 that we take for granted. 138 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:58,480 The way we have expectations for how news is consumed, 139 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,400 how presidential elections are run, 140 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,600 how we interact with legislators, how lawyers behave, 141 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,880 how children are educated, right? 142 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,600 There's a cultural expectation 143 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:14,360 that many times we don't think about. 144 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,080 As clinicians, there's a cultural expectation 145 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,040 for how clinicians show up. 146 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,760 For PhD scientists, there's a cultural expectation, 147 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,360 depending on where you are in your career, 148 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,040 there's a cultural expectation 149 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,560 for how faculty members show up, for what faculty members do. 150 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,480 So culture is all around us, 151 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,480 whether we acknowledge it or we don't. 152 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,000 Sometimes there are parts of the culture 153 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,200 that we notice a little bit more, 154 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,280 especially where we are disadvantaged in any way. 155 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:43,920 For example, let's say you are in wherever you work, 156 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:48,920 the gender or religious minority or a minority in any way, 157 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:50,920 you can tell the difference. 158 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,680 You can tell the difference between the norms of the culture 159 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:55,920 in your experience. 160 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,960 So for example, as a woman, perhaps people say, 161 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,800 well, we don't really have women faculty 162 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,080 leading divisions, right? 163 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,000 I mean, in general, division chiefs tend not to be women. 164 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,040 So women who are division chiefs tend to be a minority. 165 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:10,560 And there's a cultural expectation 166 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,280 of who the division leader looks like, 167 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:14,880 or who the division leader is, 168 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,400 or what the division leader looks like. 169 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:21,080 And because of that, there's just this tendency 170 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,440 towards fulfilling the expectation 171 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,840 of what a division leader looks like. 172 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,480 And so opportunities that may come to women 173 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,720 don't necessarily come because, 174 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,320 why would you want this opportunity? 175 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:35,920 Division leaders are men. 176 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,280 But it's subtle, it's in the background. 177 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,280 People don't go out to discriminate overtly, 178 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,240 at least not usually, but there's the subtle, 179 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:52,000 just everyone kind of regressing to the mean to some extent. 180 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,800 So that there's a cultural milieu in which we live 181 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,680 that kind of assigns people expected roles, 182 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,000 that kind of has an expectation of people. 183 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,440 And it's just the way we live, right? 184 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,840 It's the way we love the routine of our experience. 185 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,160 We love the routine of our lives. 186 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,160 And so we like things to fit. 187 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,040 We love routine, we like things to make sense. 188 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:17,640 And so where people are changing 189 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,400 or doing things that are outside of the expectation, 190 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,440 it does make people uncomfortable. 191 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,000 So that brings me to number two, 192 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,600 is that people tend to reinforce cultural norms. 193 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,720 Whatever the culture says about how clinicians are, 194 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,000 tends to be reinforced by many. 195 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,080 So for one, one cultural norm 196 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,640 that's not necessarily helpful to physicians, 197 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,800 is this idea of the physician is the hero. 198 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,800 And this is a double-edged sword 199 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,880 as far as cultural norms and expectations. 200 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,320 But it's this idea of, oh, the physician is hero, 201 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:58,240 which means that people look at you with an air of respect 202 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,680 and reverence, like, oh, you're the physician, ooh. 203 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:04,680 Actually, in some circles, 204 00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:07,000 they're like, you're the physician, so what? 205 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:08,840 Depends on your circles, right? 206 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,120 But this idea of the physician is hero means, 207 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,760 well, as the hero, you sacrifice your life to save humanity. 208 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,280 What do you mean you want more pay? 209 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,400 And I think the whole idea of physician payments 210 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,200 from Medicare decreasing 211 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,840 against the grain of inflation over time 212 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:24,880 is an example of that. 213 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,280 It's like, hey, you physician, 214 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:31,760 of course you can handle cuts to your pay over time. 215 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:33,600 You'll find a way to figure it out. 216 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,280 And I know it's an issue that people are working to solve, 217 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,040 but that it's been an issue for so long, 218 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:44,400 is I think one of the evidence that we have 219 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,600 of this institutional or societal expectation of, 220 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,920 well, the hero should be able to make sacrifices for us 221 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:55,200 because what they do is they live to help to save the people. 222 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,480 And so many times too for physicians, 223 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,800 because we feel like, oh, well, our job is to help. 224 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:02,960 Sometimes we don't advocate for ourselves very well, 225 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:04,280 because it's like, well, I don't wanna look 226 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,200 as if I'm just about the money. 227 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,760 But the reality is that we're not just about the money, 228 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,480 but not thinking about financial concerns 229 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,760 hurts our ability to do work well, right? 230 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,760 Hurts our ability to serve the people who come to be served. 231 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:20,480 And so if we're overworked 232 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,240 and needing to see a lot more volume 233 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,120 to make up for reduced physician payments, 234 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,800 that increases the stressors upon our lives. 235 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,040 That means that we're not able to do the scholarship 236 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:33,280 that we want to do. 237 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:34,680 It means that when we show up, 238 00:10:34,680 --> 00:10:37,800 we're somewhat grumpy and annoyed with little things. 239 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,480 That means that things bother us more. 240 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,160 We don't show up as well. 241 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:46,120 And so one of the challenges with cultural expectations 242 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,960 is that we tend to reinforce them 243 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,680 because it's like, well, I'm the hero physician. 244 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:53,800 This is the life I live. 245 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:55,800 And other people are like, well, you're the hero physician. 246 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,400 This is the life you should live. 247 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,760 And any tendency to buck that trend 248 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,680 is not always accepted by all. 249 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:05,520 And this is the thing about people. 250 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:09,080 People reinforce what they know to be true. 251 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:10,560 And it's subtle. 252 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:13,000 And that's why it's so interesting. 253 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,720 People don't come out and say, 254 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,120 physician, you can't live differently, 255 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,920 but they kind of resist it subtly, right? 256 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,120 You say, hey, I wanna do research. 257 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,520 And people say, well, of course you can do research. 258 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:26,520 Why don't you do it on your own, 259 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,200 on your own time, at nights and on weekends? 260 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,200 And many times as clinicians, we say, 261 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:33,520 of course, I will do that. 262 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:35,880 I'll do what I can, because I'm used to working hard. 263 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:37,800 I'm used to working super hard. 264 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,080 I will do this. 265 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:39,960 But here's the challenge. 266 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,320 Being a clinician is a full-time career, 267 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,440 and doing research is a full-time career. 268 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,760 And so trying to do two full-time careers 269 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,920 where you don't have full-time hours to do both, 270 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,440 and you have a life, you have family, you have friends, 271 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,760 you have hobbies, you have other outside interests, 272 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,440 that makes it really, really challenging. 273 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,880 But the cultural expectation of the physician 274 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,400 as a clinician is something that really is, 275 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,240 any deviation from that can be resisted, 276 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,120 even by institutions, inadvertently. 277 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,160 An institution who says, well, we want you to do research, 278 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,640 but we're not gonna support you to do research, 279 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,320 is an institution that's reinforcing the cultural norm 280 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,520 of the physician as clinician only. 281 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,440 And the challenge is that already there is a change 282 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,840 in the way physician, there's a change 283 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:31,800 in the way healthcare is being done, 284 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,680 and there's a lag between how we are perceiving 285 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:39,360 healthcare delivery and what's actually transforming. 286 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,160 And so this idea that physicians need to see more volume 287 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:47,240 and work harder is kind of pervasive, 288 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:48,880 such that any clinician who's like, 289 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,520 well, I'd like to book this trend and now do research, 290 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,440 is kind of going against cultural norms, 291 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,680 and people tend to try to reinforce those cultural norms. 292 00:12:56,680 --> 00:13:00,560 Okay, the third thing I wanna share is that if you choose 293 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:03,000 to go against the grain of your cultural norms, 294 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,040 you will feel pain, you will. 295 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,600 Because we are people who live in community, 296 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,880 and we are people who, you know, 297 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,280 we grow up for social acceptance. 298 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,320 Think about the first challenges on the playground, 299 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,200 who's gonna play with me? 300 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,480 And what it took to be the kid people would play with, right? 301 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,600 There's a certain way you had to conform 302 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:26,760 to be the person people played with, 303 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,680 if for whatever reason, you dress differently 304 00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:33,800 in your family or you talk differently in your family, 305 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,440 you felt the pain of being different. 306 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:37,960 And that's why for many of us, 307 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,760 just conforming to the norms of our community 308 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,320 is exactly what we strive to do, 309 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,360 because if we're different, then people isolate us, 310 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,680 or at least they resist us and move away from us. 311 00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:52,320 And so we feel the pain of that rejection. 312 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,400 So in order to not feel the pain of rejection, 313 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,400 we conform to cultural expectations and norms. 314 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,440 I, as a woman who's underrepresented in most spaces 315 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:08,440 in which I go to, especially in research or as a clinician, 316 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,800 there's an expectation for what a woman clinician 317 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,480 or a woman physician does, whether we accept it or not. 318 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,440 And when I say, well, I want to live differently, 319 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,520 it's like, wait a minute, why? 320 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,000 We don't do that here. 321 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,440 We don't have support for that here. 322 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,160 And so many times when people who are underrepresented 323 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,640 in the academy are looking for mentoring, 324 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:32,520 they don't have mentoring. 325 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,680 And it's not that there's not qualified mentors around them. 326 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,040 It's not that they don't have access to people 327 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,720 who can help them move forward in their careers. 328 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,680 It's just that sometimes mentors look and they say, 329 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,000 well, you don't look like me. 330 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,560 And so I don't know if I can support you. 331 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:54,560 And there's the need to conform, but you can't. 332 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,240 You just, can you change the fact that you're a woman 333 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,600 and you have children and you kind of have a pole 334 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:07,600 that's different because of the kind of your, 335 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,440 I don't know, just what's natural to you, right? 336 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,120 If you're a woman, you have children. 337 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:13,720 And I'm not saying only women have children, 338 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,120 but I'm just saying that in general, 339 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,040 the burden of childcare falls on women, right? 340 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:19,560 And so sometimes people look at you and you're like, 341 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,680 I don't know if I can support a woman who has children 342 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,080 and who really cares about our family. 343 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,440 I mean, people say that subconsciously, right? 344 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:28,720 They don't say that overtly. 345 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,120 Most people don't. 346 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,200 They're like, can I support you? 347 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,160 It's easier to support someone who looks like me, 348 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:36,680 who has the same challenges as me, 349 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,760 who has the same needs as me. 350 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,480 I don't know if I can support someone who's different. 351 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,840 And so that's what happens whenever we say, 352 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:45,600 well, I wanna do something different. 353 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,880 It's like, well, I don't know if I can support you. 354 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:50,680 And you feel the pain because you're trying 355 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,040 to do something differently and you're not surrounded 356 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,720 by a community of people supporting you to do that. 357 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:57,800 And what's easier, it's just to conform and to say, 358 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,640 okay, well, I guess people like me do full-time 359 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:02,480 clinical care and if we're gonna make it work 360 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,520 with our families, maybe we do it part-time. 361 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:05,680 I'll go do that. 362 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,120 Many times I've had young faculty say to me, 363 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:10,720 like, I would really love to do research, 364 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,320 but I have a family and so I really just need to stay 365 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,120 with clinical care so I can just get my work done 366 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:17,360 and go home. 367 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,120 And I hear that and my heart goes out to people 368 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:21,520 when they say that. 369 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,760 And but the challenge is that, yes, 370 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,640 if you're gonna try to do things differently, 371 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:28,960 you do feel the pain of kind of rejection 372 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:30,920 or the pain of people pulling away from you 373 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,360 or the pain of not having the support that you need 374 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,120 to live that way. 375 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,960 And I just want you to recognize that, 376 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,000 especially because for us clinicians, 377 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,160 our job is to be clinicians. 378 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,680 And people around you resist your desire to go do research. 379 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,720 And so when you're like, oh, I'm not seeing patients, 380 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,320 I'm going to do research, other people are like, 381 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,240 well, are you better than us? 382 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,120 Like, we're seeing patients, you should see patients too. 383 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,600 Well, I mean, we're taking calls six nights a week, 384 00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,160 you should be doing that too. 385 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,400 Anyway, so what they're not understanding, 386 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,400 what they're not realizing is that, 387 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,320 hey, if I'm going to succeed in research, 388 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,640 that means that taking calls six nights a row 389 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,360 is not going to be part of what I do. 390 00:17:13,360 --> 00:17:14,840 I mean, taking calls six nights in a row 391 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:16,000 is not gonna be part of what I do 392 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,720 because in order to succeed in research, 393 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,000 I do need to be able to invest a significant amount of time 394 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,720 in my research and my writing. 395 00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:29,440 I do need to be able to invest a significant amount of time 396 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:30,960 in my research and my writing. 397 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,680 And people who don't live that life don't understand that. 398 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,680 And so they're like, you have too much free time, 399 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:37,240 what are you doing? 400 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,080 And so we feel that pain, we do. 401 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,080 We feel that pain because sometimes people feel like 402 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:43,560 we're not pulling our weight, 403 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,800 but what we're doing is choosing a different life. 404 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,040 And that can feel painful because people don't understand 405 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:49,440 the choices we're making. 406 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,080 Okay, but here's the thing, and this is number four, 407 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,760 living out your career and a career that is true to you 408 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,560 is a responsibility, it really is an obligation. 409 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,240 To go back to the hero analogy, 410 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,000 you are obligated to make use of the gifts 411 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,080 that you're given. 412 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:12,680 But there is this idea that if you have a great gift 413 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,560 and a great talent, you should use it to its fullest. 414 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,840 And if you live below that, the manifestation 415 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,160 or the highest capacity or the highest capabilities 416 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,000 of your gift, you feel unfulfilled, you do. 417 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,680 If for whatever reason, you know you want to do research 418 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:31,480 and you know you want to change patient care 419 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,680 in a different way and you don't do it, 420 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,640 you are living below your capacity, 421 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,480 you're living below your full potential. 422 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:45,120 And there is a certain regret that can come later in life 423 00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:46,720 when you look back and say, 424 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:48,240 you know, I kind of wish I had done this now. 425 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,000 I wish I had been courageous enough to try to do this thing 426 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,520 that I wanted to do. 427 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,400 And so every time we look around and say, 428 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,320 well, let me just conform to what the environment says 429 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,800 I should be, what we're doing is missing out 430 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,680 on the opportunity to live to our fullest potential. 431 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,960 And we have an obligation to live life to the fullest. 432 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:09,760 We absolutely do because you know what? 433 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,280 The life is short and we don't know 434 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,480 how long exactly we have left. 435 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,680 Or you might look at it and say, well, I have a long time. 436 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,800 I can do that later, but there was no time like the present 437 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,800 to seize the opportunity. 438 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,200 And so we have an obligation to take advantage 439 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,560 of the opportunity so that we can live 440 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:29,560 at our fullest potential. 441 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,360 And if we do anything less, we actually experience 442 00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:36,600 the feeling of living life short. 443 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,720 We feel unfulfilled. 444 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:40,800 We feel as if we've settled. 445 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,040 You know, when the dust settles, 446 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,720 we feel as if we settled and maybe we shouldn't have. 447 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,320 And so if we're gonna not have those regrets 448 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,760 20, 30 years from now, we're gonna wanna live 449 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,520 exactly as we feel like we're supposed to live now 450 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,280 and not just conform to the norms of our environment 451 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,080 or shrink away from the pain. 452 00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,440 Okay. 453 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,040 The fifth thing I will share with you 454 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:02,400 is that if you're going to do that, 455 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,000 if you want to live to your fullest capacity 456 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,480 as a faculty member, if you're gonna do the things 457 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,040 that challenge you, then you're gonna need support to do it. 458 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,480 It takes courage to live differently. 459 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,440 Or people say, well, we don't support clinicians 460 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:16,720 to do research and you're like, well, 461 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,920 that's exactly what I want to do. 462 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:20,120 It takes courage. 463 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:22,040 You're gonna have to ask for resources. 464 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,080 You're not given the resources. 465 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,000 You're gonna have to ask for it. 466 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,840 If you need mentoring, you don't have the mentoring you need, 467 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:29,320 you're gonna have to ask for it. 468 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:30,520 Or you're gonna have to go out 469 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,280 and get support that you need. 470 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:34,400 For many of us, coaching has been our pathway 471 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:35,920 to succeed in research. 472 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,200 And if you're gonna do that, you're gonna have to ask 473 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:39,880 for the resources to pay for the coaching 474 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,160 that supports you to do the research 475 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,800 that many people think perhaps you're not qualified to do. 476 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,080 It takes courage to do those things. 477 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,400 And so if you're going to go against the grain 478 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,880 and we've established that you must 479 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:55,880 because you must live life as you have this deep sense 480 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:02,160 of responsibility to do, you need courage, you need support. 481 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,720 The sixth thing I'm gonna share is that you're gonna be, 482 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,400 need to be in the right community. 483 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,800 Your greater community has an expectation for you 484 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,600 that involves being a full-time clinician, 485 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:11,800 for the most part. 486 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:13,200 And so when you say, I wanna go out 487 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,920 and do something differently, 488 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:16,880 if you live among full-time clinicians, 489 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,600 the expectation is that your life should look like theirs. 490 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,000 And if it doesn't, there's a sense of like, well, why? 491 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,720 And you can feel the pressure of conforming, 492 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,000 conform, look like you're doing what we're doing 493 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,240 even though you're living a totally different life. 494 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,560 And so you have to live, if you're going to succeed, 495 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,960 you have to find a community of people who will support you, 496 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,880 who'll say, yeah, we understand what you're doing. 497 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,160 We recognize it because we're doing it too. 498 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:41,960 We recognize that it's hard. 499 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,080 We recognize that it's hard and we support you doing it. 500 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,080 And those communities don't exist naturally. 501 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,600 You have to pursue them, find them, create them, 502 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,440 but you do need to live in a community that supports you 503 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,040 because people don't succeed in isolation. 504 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,360 When we think about animals in the wild, for example, 505 00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:02,200 the animal that's part of the pack, 506 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,440 that's part of the herd does well. 507 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,040 The one that's kind of straggling behind 508 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:07,520 or is completely left alone 509 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,040 is at the mercy of the predators, right? 510 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,280 And so if you're going to succeed, 511 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:13,920 you wanna be in community, 512 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,720 but recognizing that you choose to live differently, 513 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,880 you do need to actively proactively choose 514 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,560 a community that supports you. 515 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,240 Number seven is that it will take people 516 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,520 who love you to support you. 517 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,360 And I do mean mentors, I do mean sponsors. 518 00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:32,880 And when I say love, 519 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,040 I'm not talking about people who are like, 520 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,160 a gushy about you, like, oh my gosh, you're so amazing. 521 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,560 But people who let you be, right? 522 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,600 I think one of the greatest examples of love 523 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,000 is that we don't try to make people change 524 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,000 so that we can love them. 525 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,000 Like, if you would just conform, I can love you, right? 526 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,120 They just love you for who you are. 527 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:55,280 And one of the great examples of this 528 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,800 is the unconditional love of a parent, 529 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,320 which I hope you experienced, some people didn't, 530 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,000 but the unconditional love of a parent that's like, 531 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,840 well, this is who you are and I love you 532 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,320 just the way you are. 533 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,120 You don't have brown eyes, great, I still love you. 534 00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:09,360 You don't have blonde hair, I still love you. 535 00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:13,080 The sense of like, no matter what you are, I accept that. 536 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,520 In academic environments, sometimes there's a sense of like, 537 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,680 well, if you don't conform to the pattern 538 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,280 of what we expect a researcher to look like, 539 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:22,440 I don't know if I support you. 540 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,200 Could you go back to do this? 541 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,880 Or until you conform to do this particular research project, 542 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:29,280 I'm not going to support you. 543 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,520 There's a lot of that in academia. 544 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,200 But people who love you, people who want you, 545 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,000 who want you to live to your fullest capacity say, 546 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,880 well, how can I help you achieve what you want to achieve? 547 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,840 I may not be able to help you get there directly, 548 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,240 but I can support you. 549 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,600 And in life, if you say, hey, I no longer want to be 550 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,920 a full-time clinician, I want to lead research, 551 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:51,440 people should support you to do that 552 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,880 rather than put obstacles in your way 553 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,560 or encourage you not to. 554 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,360 They should say, well, if this is what you want to do, 555 00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:00,480 how can you, how can we support you to do that? 556 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,320 And so I'm encouraging you to look for people in your life 557 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,840 who allow you to live your life to the fullest, 558 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,440 who don't restrict you, who don't say, no, this is impossible, 559 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,400 but who say, huh, if this isn't your heart, this matters. 560 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,400 How do we help you make it happen? 561 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,800 How can I support you, even if I can't necessarily 562 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,680 do much to help you? 563 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,320 And this is important because, I mean, even a chair, 564 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,880 for a chair to say, oh, this is what you want to do, 565 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,120 well, it changes the landscape. 566 00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:28,880 That means I need to hire more FTEs 567 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,080 to fulfill the clinical role 568 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,360 that you're no longer going to be doing. 569 00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:34,080 How can I support you to do it? 570 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,840 Or it's like, well, I'm not able to support you, 571 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,240 but where else can you go that will support you to do it? 572 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:41,760 And so I want you to pay attention to people 573 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,760 who are willing to help you be who you're going to be. 574 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,520 Now, it means you're gonna have to do the work 575 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,920 because the environment may not necessarily stand up 576 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,040 and try to push you in that direction. 577 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:52,760 You're gonna need to do the work, 578 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,360 but you wanna make sure that there are people 579 00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:56,040 who don't try to change you. 580 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:57,760 Like, oh, no, no, no, that's not who you wanna be. 581 00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,840 Let's fix you. 582 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,400 You are not the problem. 583 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,080 And so nobody should be trying to fix you. 584 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,680 Like, oh, no, let's try to help you love clinical care more. 585 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,360 It's not about love for clinical care. 586 00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:11,160 It's about a responsibility to the scholarship 587 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:12,960 that you know you need to do, 588 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,160 the research program that you know you need to establish. 589 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,320 And so you want to be surrounded by people 590 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,400 or you want to surround yourself with people 591 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:21,640 who encourage you. 592 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:22,840 And if they're not able to help you, 593 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,600 get out of your way so that you can find the help 594 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:25,560 that you need. 595 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,440 All right, there are seven things I talked about 596 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,600 in the need to choose to love differently 597 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,720 and is to recognize the true expectations of the culture, 598 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,400 recognize that people tend to reinforce cultural norms. 599 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:36,800 If you choose to live differently, 600 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,760 you will feel the pain. 601 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,040 If you're gonna live out your unique career path, 602 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,400 it's your responsibility to yourself 603 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,440 and your maximum potential. 604 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:46,280 If you're gonna do that, 605 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:47,520 it's gonna take courage and support. 606 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:48,840 That's number five. 607 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,760 You're gonna need to find the right communities 608 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,080 that support you. 609 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,200 You're gonna wanna make sure that you're supported 610 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,680 by people who love you. 611 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,000 And by love, that's people who let you be. 612 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,480 Get out of your way or support you 613 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,480 rather than trying to make you conform to a certain norm. 614 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,360 All right, it's been a pleasure talking with you today. 615 00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:08,760 As always, I'm always in the market to coach. 616 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,000 Actually, I am now. 617 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,880 I don't have any individual slots, 618 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,520 but I do have group coaching slots if you're interested. 619 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,000 Send me a DM, especially on LinkedIn. 620 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,360 I'll be happy to talk with you. 621 00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:20,400 It's been such a pleasure talking with you today. 622 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:21,360 Thank you for listening. 623 00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:23,840 And I look forward to seeing you again 624 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,760 on the next episode of the Clinician Researcher podcast. 625 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:36,760 Thank you for listening.