1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,720 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast. 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:04,280 I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, 3 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,720 and it is a pleasure to be speaking with you today. 4 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:08,680 Thank you so much for tuning in. 5 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,960 Today, I am talking about when going above and beyond 6 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:13,960 may not be the right thing to do. 7 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,720 And it's an interesting, interesting episode. 8 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,000 I'd love to hear your thoughts at the end of it. 9 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,800 But before I get started, I just want to let you know 10 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,240 that Clinician Researcher Academy is open for enrollment. 11 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:28,520 Yes, this is our weekly group coaching academy, 12 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:30,880 and this is where we help clinicians build the habits 13 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,800 that are necessary to help them succeed as researchers. 14 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:36,440 We help shape identity. 15 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,920 We help you really get the results that you want 16 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,480 in being able to do research that resonates with you, 17 00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:46,120 research that resonates with you, 18 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,480 and also in being able to get publications 19 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:50,920 and get grants submitted, 20 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:52,680 whatever it is that you want to do 21 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,400 in terms of growing your academic career. 22 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,200 So excited to let you know that we are open for enrollment, 23 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:58,640 and if you want more information, 24 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,400 you can go to coagcoach.com, which is our website, 25 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,280 and look for the tab Academy, 26 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,560 and there's information about the Academy right there. 27 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,400 All right, so I hope that you will think about joining us 28 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:13,400 as we help clinicians really make the transitions necessary 29 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:15,280 to succeed as researchers. 30 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,400 Okay, so going above and beyond 31 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,240 is our thing as physicians, right? 32 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,720 We just go the extra mile, 33 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,200 and it's part of our training. 34 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:25,600 This is not even just so much like, 35 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,760 oh, we're born this way. 36 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,560 It's that we've been practicing this for so long. 37 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,120 It is the way we think. 38 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,040 It's the way we do things. 39 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:35,920 So when you were an undergrad 40 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:37,520 and really trying to get into med school, 41 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,440 you were kind of the overachiever 42 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,840 doing all the extra stuff, the shadowing, 43 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:46,280 the doing the extracurricular so that you could write, 44 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,000 hey, look at all the stuff I did. 45 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,920 Let me get into the pre-med program, right? 46 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:51,040 So you did that. 47 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:52,640 And then you got into med school, 48 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,920 and you were the person who studied and studied and studied 49 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,200 and took tests and aced the tests. 50 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,000 Some of us didn't, some of us didn't. 51 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,440 But you did all that, and then you became a resident. 52 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:04,720 Oh my gosh, like how hard you worked. 53 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,440 You even took overnight call. 54 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,240 Then you became a fellow, and wow, you went the extra mile. 55 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,160 You're staying up late. 56 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,920 It's our tendency to go above and beyond. 57 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:16,840 While we become faculty members, 58 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,960 going above and beyond is not always beneficial. 59 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,280 It's not. 60 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,200 I would say going above and beyond is important, 61 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,400 and please do that as much as you can. 62 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,800 But if you try to go above and beyond in everything, 63 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,880 wow, it's kind of hard. 64 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:33,400 It's challenging. 65 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:34,560 No wonder you're burned out. 66 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,080 No wonder you feel like you wanna quit. 67 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:41,240 The question is, what are the things you need 68 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,160 to actually go above and beyond in, 69 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,080 and what are the things you need to do with minimal effort? 70 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,600 And it's challenging to know how to do that, right? 71 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,560 It's challenging to know how to do that. 72 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,320 But in fact, one of the things that I, 73 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,480 a story I wanna share is just, you know, 74 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,040 I just actually, I'm recording this 75 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,080 after a coaching session, and one of the clients, 76 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,200 one of our clients talked about how, you know, 77 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:05,880 she's on this project. 78 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,280 It's a collaborative project, and she seems to be 79 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,200 the one who's driving everything. 80 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,280 And she was like, well, you know, 81 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,560 all the rest of the collaborators are attendings, 82 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,440 and I'm the only person who's a resident, 83 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:17,920 and I really feel like, you know, 84 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:20,320 I feel guilty when I don't have extra results, 85 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:21,720 when things haven't moved forward 86 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,360 like they're supposed to. 87 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,760 And it turns out that she had a requirement 88 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,040 for a project that she's completed. 89 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:29,720 She's actually completed the project, 90 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,080 but now she's going above and beyond. 91 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,360 She's like, I'm done, but I wanna help 92 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,080 to see this thing succeed. 93 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,240 And it turns out it's a QI project, 94 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,480 and there's a lab director who's part of this QI project, 95 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,720 but she's on the project only to the extent 96 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,160 to which it fulfilled a requirement for her. 97 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,160 But so now she's on the project 98 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,800 because she wants to get a good letter from the person 99 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,360 who's gonna be a program director next year. 100 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,040 And so when we really broke it down, 101 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,600 it turns out that she was really trying 102 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,880 to make this person happy because she was hoping 103 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:04,040 that if she continued working hard, 104 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,320 then this person would like her more. 105 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,360 But it wasn't actually to her benefit 106 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,440 that she continued to make these kinds of investments 107 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,720 because you know what, she had actually finished 108 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:15,840 the project, she had finished her responsibility 109 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,560 on the project, and now her continued working 110 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,880 on the project was actually affecting other things 111 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:23,600 that she was supposed to be doing. 112 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:25,240 And so I tell her story just to share 113 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,360 that this is a common challenge for us. 114 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,280 We're going above and beyond in so many things, 115 00:04:29,280 --> 00:04:32,800 and in reality, not all things are prioritized equally, 116 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,840 not all things are equally important. 117 00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:38,400 So how do we separate going above and beyond 118 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,160 in the right things versus going above and beyond 119 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,360 in things that actually may not make sense? 120 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,400 So I wanna talk to you about questions to ask yourself. 121 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,760 Okay, questions to ask yourself. 122 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:53,760 So if you find yourself doing more than anyone else 123 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,280 in any collaboration, I want you to ask yourself why. 124 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,960 If you are the one who's doing all the work, 125 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,320 and this is not an unusual scenario, 126 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:05,880 found myself in this situation, 127 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:07,880 and I'm guessing that you have too, 128 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,440 but if you find yourself as the one 129 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,720 who's doing all the work, 130 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:13,320 and it feels like you're pulling more weight 131 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,360 than everybody else, pause, stop. 132 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:20,440 Say, hmm, how come this is the case? 133 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,160 And it's really important for you to pause and ask 134 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:28,120 because it helps you figure out how to move forward next. 135 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:29,720 Now you're pulling all this weight, 136 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,400 but the work is not moving forward 137 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,920 because the work really is work for five people. 138 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,440 And if the five people are not carrying their weight, 139 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,280 wow, you're gonna be carrying a lot of weight, 140 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:42,320 but you're also not gonna be making much progress. 141 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,720 And so the opportunity to stop and ask why it seems 142 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,800 as if you're the only one doing all the work is important 143 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,120 because it helps you decide how best to move forward. 144 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,760 Okay, so that brings me now to number two. 145 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,520 You wanna review for yourself 146 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,880 what are your obligations on this project. 147 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,240 Okay, let's say you're the leader of the project, 148 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,280 you're the PI on this project, 149 00:06:04,280 --> 00:06:05,960 and you know what, it's really important to you. 150 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,080 And if you don't do the work, the work doesn't move forward 151 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,080 and you're like, well, I'm gonna carry it all myself. 152 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:11,920 You should ask yourself 153 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,120 are the other people needed on the project? 154 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:15,040 Hopefully they're needed 155 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,480 because you actually need them to do the work. 156 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,200 But if they're not, then maybe make it a solo project. 157 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,560 Don't make it a collaborative project. 158 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,400 But if it's a collaborative project 159 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,680 and it needs to be collaborative, 160 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,760 then you do need the engagement of the collaborators. 161 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,640 And so they all need to buy in 162 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:36,920 or the work doesn't move forward. 163 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,720 And if the collaborators say, well, we don't wanna buy in, 164 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,800 it's important information, 165 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,320 it's information that allows you to say, 166 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,240 well, how do I wanna move forward? 167 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,000 Do I wanna continue to work with collaborators 168 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,360 who are actually not pulling any weight? 169 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:54,080 Or do I want a new project, find new collaborators? 170 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,360 And sometimes it actually is harder to continue, 171 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:58,920 you're like, ah, I've already invested a lot, 172 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:00,480 I'm just gonna keep going. 173 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,440 It is hard to continue to drag people 174 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,960 who don't wanna do the work, very, very hard. 175 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,640 And in fact, sometimes they will derail you 176 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:10,240 from the finish line. 177 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,440 You have to decide, is it important enough 178 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,880 to continue to drag these people along 179 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:20,880 or do I cut my costs, cut my losses and move forward? 180 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,320 So here is an opportunity for you to stop 181 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,560 and assess what are my obligations here? 182 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,520 Especially if you're not even the lead on the project, 183 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,000 maybe you're not in the PI, 184 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:30,440 but somehow you're working harder 185 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,360 than everybody else on the project. 186 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,880 Ask yourself, what are the things I'm required to do? 187 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,800 You wanna understand your obligation to the project. 188 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:40,960 What did I commit to doing from the beginning? 189 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,000 I may be the one carrying everything now, 190 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,200 but what was my commitment from the beginning 191 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,000 and what was the commitment of the others 192 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:48,720 in the collaboration? 193 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,360 And that's important so you recognize 194 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,360 how far have you gone beyond what you promised to go 195 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,040 and who else is responsible, co-responsible with you 196 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,600 for moving the project forward, okay? 197 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,600 The next thing I want you to do 198 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,320 is to now list all your other priorities 199 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,920 because sometimes these kinds of projects 200 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:10,640 can feel overwhelming. 201 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,720 And there's a sense that, wait a minute, 202 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,480 what else should I be working on? 203 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:15,960 What else should I be doing, right? 204 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,520 So what you wanna do is you wanna list your priorities 205 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,080 and you wanna ask, well, what else am I supposed to be doing? 206 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,720 What are the other things I'm supposed to be doing? 207 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,840 So in this particular case of the coaching client 208 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:28,440 that I'm talking about, 209 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,320 she actually had a major exam coming up 210 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:31,680 and that was a priority. 211 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,400 And what's interesting is while she was really focused 212 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,080 on putting all the energy in this project 213 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:37,680 that she was carrying further than the people 214 00:08:37,680 --> 00:08:38,840 she was working with, 215 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,600 she actually didn't have time to study for the exam. 216 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,960 And here's the thing, if she didn't pass the exam, 217 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,320 the people on the project would not be happy, right? 218 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:47,720 These are her attendings. 219 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,440 So if you are so busy doing a project 220 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,280 that you weren't even supposed to really be doing 221 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:53,560 and then you didn't study for the work 222 00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:55,320 that you were supposed to be doing, 223 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,400 people are not gonna be happy with you. 224 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,120 And so it was an important strategy 225 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:00,240 for her to go through and list, 226 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,120 well, what are the other things I really need to be focused on 227 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,960 and where does this particular project rank 228 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:10,280 relative to the other work that I'm doing, right? 229 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,320 And when she put them all in rank order, 230 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,280 what she found out was that, wait a minute, 231 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:15,520 this is like at the bottom. 232 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,200 I've completed my obligation. 233 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:18,800 Everything else I'm doing here 234 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,320 is still number 17 on my list, 235 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,400 maybe more like number eight, 236 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,880 but it's not at the top of the list. 237 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,000 And so all this extra work 238 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,760 where she was going above and beyond 239 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,640 was actually not serving her 240 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,000 because in going above and beyond on a low priority project, 241 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,240 she was not able to do even the bare minimum 242 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,640 on a high priority project. 243 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,840 So how important it is for you to actually be able 244 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,680 to prioritize the work that you're doing 245 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:49,360 so that you recognize where this particular project fits 246 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,640 and whether you should even be giving this project 247 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:53,120 the light of day. 248 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,720 So we went from talking about, well, 249 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,240 I wanna go above and beyond to, wait a minute, 250 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,840 should I even be doing any more work on this project? 251 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,920 And at the end of our coaching call, 252 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:05,840 she came to understand that actually she needed 253 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,760 to submit her quit notice. 254 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,800 She needed to say, hey guys, 255 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:11,040 it's been great working with you 256 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,360 and I'm moving on to the other things. 257 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:18,160 But she was only able to discover that that was needed 258 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,600 after she really took the time to prioritize 259 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,480 her list of activities 260 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,160 and put this particular project in context 261 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,320 of all the other things that she was doing. 262 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:29,480 Okay. 263 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,080 The next thing is to ask yourself, well, 264 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:37,080 how does this project overlap with benefits that help me? 265 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:38,280 And this is really important, 266 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,440 especially for us when we're early career 267 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,960 and we feel as if like we owe other people 268 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:45,880 and we need to do things that benefit them 269 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,280 even if it doesn't benefit us. 270 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,760 In life and in academia, 271 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:53,760 the best work you're gonna do benefits you 272 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:55,840 and it benefits others as well. 273 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,120 It's always a win-win that really moves you forward. 274 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,840 If you're in a situation where all the benefit, 275 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:03,360 all the investments coming from you, 276 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,600 but all the benefit goes to someone else, 277 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,640 it feels heavy, you're gonna resent the other people, 278 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,280 especially at the end of all the work 279 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:11,440 when they don't even recognize 280 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,000 how much of an investment you've made. 281 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,880 And so you owe it to yourself to start to ask the question, 282 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:18,320 what isn't it for me? 283 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,000 How can I make sure that at the end of this experience, 284 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,640 I actually get what I need? 285 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:25,360 And it's not a selfish question. 286 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,320 It allows you all to pull in the same direction. 287 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:29,560 Because here's the thing, 288 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:33,720 if you have no benefit, but all the investment, 289 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,800 you may not feel like really making an investment 290 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,680 because you don't perceive that you're getting much benefit. 291 00:11:39,680 --> 00:11:40,800 And so ask yourself, 292 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:45,240 how can I overlap the benefit here with benefit for me? 293 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:46,840 I'm so glad that I'm doing this work 294 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,120 that allows this director of a certain lab program 295 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,440 to get a QI project done that helps the lab 296 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,560 then to meet its metrics or meet its requirements, 297 00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:02,320 or at least allows them to test a particular new process. 298 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,640 It's great that that work is able to do that, 299 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,360 but does it help you advance? 300 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,680 Does it help you write another publication? 301 00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:10,880 Does it help you gain visibility? 302 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:12,800 If at the end of the day, 303 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,240 the only benefit is that somebody else is pleased, 304 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,200 it's time to reconsider the project. 305 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:21,800 I'm gonna say that again. 306 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,960 If at the end of working on this project, 307 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,960 the only benefit is that somebody else is pleased with you, 308 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,400 then it is not worth even working on a project 309 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,120 and definitely not worth going above and beyond. 310 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,040 Now, here's the thing that came up in this conversation. 311 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,240 It was like, yeah, but this person's gonna write me 312 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:40,760 a letter of recommendation. 313 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:42,800 It's like, well, who else can write you 314 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:44,000 a letter of recommendation? 315 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,840 Is this the only person 316 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,640 who can write that letter of recommendation? 317 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,640 And well, how does this project, 318 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,240 continue to work on this project 319 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,280 beyond what you've done so far? 320 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,120 How does it get you more 321 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,880 of what she would already maybe write for you right now? 322 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:03,280 And the more she had time to think about it, 323 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,040 she recognized that, wait a minute, 324 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,280 I've done a good amount of this project. 325 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,240 I'm at the point where I've done a lot of great things. 326 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,440 I don't actually need to do any more. 327 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,040 And that's important 328 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,160 because trying to make other people happy 329 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,000 is actually a losing battle. 330 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,040 We're not very good at making other people happy. 331 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,280 So it's kind of, it's a project you should just drop. 332 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:24,880 Like if you're doing anything in life 333 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:26,360 to make anybody else happy, 334 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,520 you should start to really seriously think about 335 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,360 whether it's even working. 336 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:31,800 It's like you're putting all this energy 337 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,920 and you're not even getting the outcome that you want 338 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:36,880 because you can't choose for other people. 339 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,800 You cannot guarantee that they're gonna like you. 340 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:41,360 All you can guarantee is that you do the work 341 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:42,560 you're supposed to do. 342 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:46,200 In this situation, my client had actually done so much more 343 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,400 than she really needed to do. 344 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,240 She'd gone above and beyond already 345 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,120 and going more above and beyond was really not necessary. 346 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:54,400 Okay. 347 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,800 The last thing I wanna ask you to do 348 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,400 is to call out people pleasing. 349 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,800 And I will tell you that there is no shame of judgment 350 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:02,200 in being a people pleaser 351 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,640 because in reality it's part of our training in medicine. 352 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,200 You know, we struggled hard to impress people enough 353 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:09,160 to get into medical school. 354 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:10,480 And we were just begging to get in. 355 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:12,240 We're like, I don't care where you take me. 356 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:13,400 I just wanna get in. 357 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,000 And then we get to residency 358 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,200 and we have all these subjective evaluations. 359 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:19,960 And it's like, hey, sometimes I feel like 360 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:21,520 I'm just here to make you happy. 361 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,400 And that's what we're training to do. 362 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,560 And then we get to our fellowships and we're like, hey, 363 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,360 I just want the attending to be happy. 364 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,880 And so we practice a lot of people pleasing 365 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,280 and it doesn't necessarily serve our careers. 366 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,680 And maybe it works for us up until a certain point 367 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,440 but the moment we become faculty, 368 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,200 it becomes less and less effective. 369 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,200 And so what I wanna invite you to do 370 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,440 is to see the areas that you are going above and beyond 371 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,640 just as a people pleasing strategy and call it out. 372 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,120 Say, hmm, I'm just doing this to make someone happy. 373 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,280 And that's important. 374 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,480 So you recognize where you really should focus your energies 375 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,520 and you don't invest more than is necessary 376 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:01,960 because people are pleasing. 377 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,320 It just doesn't get you very far. 378 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,360 I mean, it may get you far with this person 379 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,600 but what really ultimately happens 380 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:08,760 is that the person you're pleasing 381 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,800 doesn't even know how much you're putting into it. 382 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,600 They don't really appreciate the work you're doing. 383 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:14,400 And sometimes they turn around and they're like, 384 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:15,920 yeah, your work sucks. 385 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:17,240 And then it really hurts. 386 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:20,960 Maybe you haven't experienced that, but I have. 387 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,240 And it just, then you stop and you're like, 388 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,720 why am I even bothering? 389 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:26,640 And it's a great question. 390 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,080 Why are you bothering? 391 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:29,800 Why is that your goal? 392 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:31,240 And how does that serve humanity 393 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,320 in the way you wanna serve humanity 394 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,360 in your role as a clinician researcher? 395 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:36,440 All right, so those are the five things 396 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,960 I want you to think about when going above and beyond 397 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:41,880 is feeling especially icky. 398 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:43,960 And you're like, I'm not sure I really wanna be doing this 399 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,000 or it's feeling like a drag, it's feeling heavy. 400 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:48,800 Ask yourself these questions. 401 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,040 So the first question is why? 402 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,600 Why am I doing the most work in this collaboration? 403 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,480 The second thing is, well, what obligations 404 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:56,800 do I have in this project? 405 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,160 What do I absolutely need to do? 406 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,120 And what are the things other people should be doing? 407 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,320 Number three, list all your other priorities 408 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,240 and rank this project relative to those other priorities. 409 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,800 Number four, ask how much of this work 410 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,600 actually overlaps with benefits for me 411 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,600 as well as benefits for other people. 412 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,920 And number five, call out people pleasing. 413 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,360 If you recognize it, definitely call it out. 414 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,960 So this week, I wanna invite you to think about a project 415 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,680 that you may feel like it's dragging on you. 416 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:26,600 Like, oh, every time you think about the project, 417 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,320 you get bad feelings inside, 418 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,000 you get an ugly knots in your stomach. 419 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,720 Think about that project. 420 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,680 And I want you to evaluate the investment 421 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,320 relative to the benefit. 422 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:39,600 And I wanna invite you to think about 423 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,880 what could your experience be 424 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:46,440 if you invested your energy in moving work forward 425 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,520 instead of trying to make people happy? 426 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,480 What could the outcome be? 427 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,520 I'm excited about you putting energy into work 428 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,240 that actually really advances your career. 429 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,400 And so I hope that you'll rethink going above and beyond 430 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,560 in every aspect of your life and be strategic 431 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,560 about where you go above and beyond. 432 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:08,960 All right, it's been an absolute pleasure 433 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:10,120 talking with you today. 434 00:17:10,120 --> 00:17:11,800 Thank you so much for listening. 435 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:13,600 I look forward to talking with you again 436 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:40,200 on the next episode of the Clinician Researcher podcast.