Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills
to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.
When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find
that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research
program.
Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.
However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.
For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians
the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.
Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.
I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be here talking with you
today.
Thank you for listening.
Today, I'm going to talk about why the traditional mentoring system is broken and what you can
do about it.
And I really feel like it's important to talk about this topic because it's something I
wish I had understood when I first started in my faculty career.
I thought so much depended on my mentors.
I needed them to help me.
I didn't feel like they were really rising up to the challenge and just felt like they
failed me.
I was like the child who felt like their parents just didn't do enough for them.
And it's kind of like, you know, when for those of you who have good relationships with
your parents, you recognize that, you know, when you're younger, you don't really appreciate
them, but as you get older and certainly as you start to have children yourself, you have
the sense of like, wow, they did so much for me.
And you begin to appreciate your parents in a way that you didn't before.
And it's insight and perspective that you wish you had had as children, you know, in
honoring them more.
So anyway, so this is the perspective I'm coming with as someone who, when I was younger
and a little bit petty, really blamed my mentors for a lot and really felt like they fell short
of their responsibility.
And now as someone who's a mentor myself, I recognize all the challenges and now I just
want to share them.
And I want to share them, not necessarily to give you a better attitude towards your
mentors for those of you who've had challenging mentoring relationships, but just to help
you understand the background of what is broken and how it helps you adjust your expectations.
And it's helpful because when you recognize what the challenges are, it allows you to
say, well, what can I expect from this person?
And it allows you to just manage your expectations.
So that's the picture.
That's the perspective that I want to share.
And so helping you understand why the traditional mentoring systems are broken and what you
can do about it.
Okay.
So the first thing I want to share with you is that structurally clinicians do not get
research training.
Okay.
If you're MD-PhD, you have a different trajectory.
I'm going to talk about PhDs and so maybe your story aligns more with that path.
What I find is that MD-PhDs are kind of in the middle of that.
So MD-PhDs, there's nothing against you, but I really do want to focus on MD-only trained
clinicians right now.
And I want to just point out MD-only trained clinicians that research is not part of your
training.
It's not, and it's not supposed to be because you came to be an excellent clinician when
you started out in medical school.
Yes, you are out to save the world, to help people, but your medical school training is
about clinical training.
So most medical schools are certified and most residency programs are certified.
Most fellowship programs are certified by the ACGME.
And I think undergraduate medical programs are certified by the LCME and the graduate
medical education programs, the residencies and fellowships are certified by the ACGME.
So there are competencies that you need to meet for each to be certified, for each program
to be certified.
So the competencies are really around clinical care.
Okay, this is really important.
There's a really important foundation to lay is that your training was always about medical
care in the first place.
Research was not part of your training.
Now as part of your training, you understand research, right?
Because a lot of the basis for biomedical research is patients, is healthcare.
Every advancement that we're making in biomedical research is about helping the patient, is
about helping the patient be better, is about helping improve outcomes.
And although sometimes it's challenging for us to trace back these efforts all the way
to, all the way to like the Drosophila for those who are working on fruit fly experiments,
it's hard for us to make those connections.
But at the end of the day, the whole goal is to move us towards better care for, for
patients, right?
So biomedical research, I'm focused on biomedical research.
Because there's other research that does not necessarily improve patient outcomes, but
biomedical research, we understand as clinicians because, hey, we're at the forefront of patient
care.
And yes, we understand that a new drug that really enhances glycemic control in patients
with diabetes is important.
Okay, clinicians, I want you to understand that your clinician education was really about
clinical care.
Okay, you understand research because to some extent you understand the basis for research,
but research training is a very, very defined skill set that usually is experienced by our
colleagues, the PhD researchers.
Okay, I'm going to pause now.
I'm going to talk to you about PhD training.
PhD training is really focused on research.
And this is an important thing to understand.
I know it's intuitive.
It's like, oh yeah, PhDs go get research training.
Got it.
So I want you to understand that they come to research, they come to life with a totally
different perspective.
For example, when I was a fellow looking for a lab or a research mentor, I met a couple
of PhD researchers and they would say, great, how much time do you have for research?
How much time will we expect for you to come and be in the lab and do these experiments?
And I would say, well, I have clinic on Mondays.
That's a half day.
And then on Tuesday, I have a half day in the afternoon.
And then on Friday, by the time I was getting to Friday, they were like, I'm not sure I'm
going to be available to mentor you.
And the reason that they couldn't understand my three half days of clinic during fellowship
was that it really is a full-time endeavor.
And anybody who doesn't have a full-time commitment to a research endeavor is not really going
to be able to move very much forward.
But as clinicians, we're clinicians, we take care of patients.
Research is not our full-time job.
So anyway, so letting you know that researchers come to research from a different perspective.
Okay.
Let's talk about PhD training.
You start out maybe getting a little bit of research training in your pre-doctoral years.
You say, hey, I think I want to be a PhD researcher.
And in your undergraduate education, perhaps if you had a good guidance counselor, they
would say, are you sure you want to do research?
Why don't you do a little bit of a pre-doctoral type experience, get a little bit of research
under your belt and see if this is actually what you want to do.
So in the course of that, similar to what medical students do, they do maybe a year,
no more than two.
And they're like, you know what, I really want to do this research program.
And so they apply and they go into their PhD program.
Okay.
They go into their PhD program and then they start out, first of all, doing qualifiers.
So they're doing the basic understanding of biochemical things, depending on what they're
going into for their PhD.
And then they take their qualifiers and their qualifying exams are to say, wow, you have
attained a sufficient level of expertise or knowledge to actually do your research.
And so the qualifiers, that whole experience probably can get them to one to two years
with their research program potentially.
But anyway, in the process though, they're not just like learning things.
They're actually actively participating in research.
And in this way, they're not really like leading anything yet, but they're going from lab to
lab, you know, having an experience of like, oh, okay, this might be a lot, I want to participate
in.
Great.
Okay.
And so they're doing a little bit of research and then they choose their lab.
They say, this is a lab in which I'm going to pursue research or their program of study
for those of them who are not in the lab.
This is the program of study in which I'm going to do research.
They choose that lab.
And then for about four to six years, they're focused on just research training.
They start out on the project of maybe a senior graduate student in the lab.
They help them finish their project.
So in that way, they're not necessarily leading research.
I mean, they're leading their own project, but what they're not doing is leading the
big picture, right?
They start off kind of like in a participatory role and then they start to get graduated
responsibility and over time, over the four to six years in the research training program,
they become more senior.
They become directors of the research program, right?
They become the senior graduate student and they have other graduate students in the lab
helping them move their projects forward.
Maybe they have summer students that they also supervise, but over the four to six years
of their training in the lab, they are getting graduated responsibility in leading research.
Okay.
They get their PhD, whoop-de-doo.
They get a certificate.
Congratulations.
Here's your diploma.
You did great.
You don't go get a job.
You first of all do a postdoc.
If you're going to stay in academia, you're going to stay in research, you're going to
get a postdoc.
So they go get a postdoc.
Any reasonable postdoc experience is like a two to three year experience.
Okay.
You do two to three years.
You get a postdoc.
And as a postdoc, you're not coming to the lab to figure out your life.
You're coming to a lab to learn a particular methodology so you can apply it to your research.
So you come in as a postdoc.
You come in as a leader.
You come in as a leader of the senior graduate students, right?
You drive your own program study.
You're independent to some extent within the context of your mentor, your research mentors
program.
Okay.
That's the first postdoc.
Most people actually do a second postdoc.
So your first postdoc two to three years, second postdoc, maybe two to three years.
And at the end of all of this postdocing, you're like, I am now ready for an early career
faculty appointment.
Okay.
Now, when we add up all those years, zero to two years in the predoctoral phase, four
to six years in the research program for the PhD phase, two to three years in the first
postdoc, two to three years in the second postdoc, we come to eight to 12 years of dedicated
research training.
I need to pause and say that number for you again.
Eight to 12 years of dedicated research training as a PhD.
You need to remember that number.
And it's not just about, hey, I'm just helping out.
It's about graduated research leadership.
It's about graduated understanding of leading your own program of study, of understanding
how to have a hypothesis, how to test a hypothesis, how to do the experiments, how to lead the
experiments, how to plan what experiment is next.
It's focused research training.
Okay.
Let's move to our MD colleagues, right?
So as MDs, you're a medical student, but before you can get into med school, you do need to
do a little bit of research.
So maybe you do a summer program of study.
You pack a couple of summers in there.
Great.
You might get a year of research in that regard.
And you know, a summer here, a summer there, six weeks here, six, eight weeks there, maybe
by the end of your undergraduate degree, you've done maybe a year, a year of research.
And then for some people, not even quite a year, but maybe you were gung ho and you've
been working in the lab of a research mentor part-time for like your whole four year period
because you're like, oh, I know.
I know research is necessary to get into med school.
Maybe you did two years.
Good for you.
So in your pre-doctoral phase, you did about zero to two years.
Okay.
Then you went into medical school.
Now, many of us are still seeking opportunities to lead research in medical school, but most
of us don't have that.
But if you do, maybe you go to a medical school where they actually will dedicate a whole
year for doing research and you do that.
Okay, great.
You have a whole year.
You've done research.
Good for you.
You go into your residency program.
How many residency programs have elective time for research?
Very few.
But if they do have research electives, it's like four weeks, right?
Each elective period is about four to six weeks.
So maximum time you have in one year is four to six period.
It's four to six weeks, right?
It's a short period of time, but maybe you are in a special program where there's like
an accelerated research experience.
Maybe you get a year.
Oh, maybe even two years.
Okay.
Then you go into your fellowship.
An ACGME accredited fellowships for three years have 18 months worth of clinical time.
If it's a 24 month program, it's 12 months of research time.
So 18 months of research time or 12 months of research time.
Okay.
Then at the end of your fellowship, you're ready to apply for a faculty job.
Great.
Now, when we look at you, because you're applying for an academic faculty job in an academic
medical center, when we compare you to the PhD researcher who's also looking for their
entry level academic job at the academic medical center, they've racked up eight to 12 years
of research training and you've racked up three to five years at the most.
And I'm being really generous.
It's really about three.
It's three years of research training, right?
The 18 months you had in your fellowship, maybe you had a year in medical school.
You didn't get up to a year in your residency.
Maybe you did a little bit before you started medical school.
It's really three, no more than 3.5 years.
And that whole time, it's not like you are leading anybody to do anything.
You're just helping out or you're participating.
You are rarely the person who's driving a program of study, who's planning what experiments
happen next, who's leading another person in a research project.
Very rarely.
And so compared to a PhD who has eight to 12 years of training, and then they're like,
oh, I need a career development award.
You have three years at most.
And you also are like, great, I need a career development award.
Okay.
So you now need to understand that you have a gap when you compare yourself to a PhD researcher
of about 10 years in terms of how much training you have had relative to a PhD researcher.
There's a 10 year gap of not having research training.
Okay.
And what does that research training entail?
It entails you being able to write grants to know how to formulate a hypothesis, how
to test a hypothesis, how to evaluate what experiments need to be done, how to plan the
experiments, how to do the experiments, how to evaluate the results of the experiments,
how to interpret data, how to put them into a manuscript for publication, how to choose
a journal to submit for publication.
Okay.
I could go on and on, but there are so many skills that come with doing research.
Here's the other piece of it.
Researchers have multiple mentors throughout, right?
PhD researchers have multiple mentors throughout.
They're not just having the one mentor in their one lab.
Most of them have a thesis committee, but even before the thesis committee, they've
worked in a couple of other labs.
They have a couple of other faculty that they work with.
They probably go to career development training sessions.
So they've had a lot of people pour into them on their journey to becoming an early career
faculty member.
And you, as a clinician, have had a lot of mentors pour into you too, but mostly in clinical
things, right?
And you've been so focused on clinical training, you haven't had that as well.
Okay.
So you have so many things that you need to make up in this 10-year gap between you and
the PhD researcher who, by the way, you're applying for the same funding sources, right?
How is it supposed to all fall on one person?
Okay.
So do you already see that there's a little bit of structural challenge?
It's like, hmm, I'm missing about eight to 10 years of research training.
And now we're going to ask one person, who by the way, has a full-time job in their own
clinical program, in their own research program, we're going to ask this one person to transform
your experience.
Wow.
That, number one, is the biggest structural challenge, that there is so much of a gap
in a clinician's research training experience that it is overwhelming to ask one person
to do it when for researchers, it took a whole educational system to get them that information,
to get them that training.
So already you can see that the challenging task before a mentor is very daunting.
That's number one.
It is an overwhelmingly impossible task.
I'll tell you the truth.
It's an impossible task for one mentor to undertake the work that a whole system of
education undertakes to support research training.
That's number one.
Okay.
That took a long time.
The rest of it will be shorter, I promise.
Okay.
So what I want to leave you with at the end of that is that clinicians actually have a
massive gap in their research training.
It's huge.
It's a chasm.
It's huge.
It's gargantuan.
And to ask a mentor to bridge it is a fool's errand.
Okay.
Let's stop there.
So you want to lead research because you're so awesome and you can, and you know that
your work is going to change the lives of patients.
Good news to you for the work you do.
But you've got a lot of needs.
You've got a lot of career development needs.
Number one, you need to learn to do the research.
You need the research methodology training.
Number two, you need to learn to lead the research.
So hey, Newsflash and I are going to be doing all this work yourself.
You've got other things to do, but you're going to develop and train people to be able
to lead research.
So you do need to be able to learn to lead a team.
You need to learn to do all the things associated with managing people.
Okay.
You also need to do all the stuff regarding grant writing.
I know that gets a lot of press, but there's a lot beyond just grant writing.
And now you're getting an understanding of all the things you need.
And then you know what?
You're a human being and maybe you have a significant other.
And you're navigating the challenges of a dual career relationship.
And especially if you're a two-physician household, wow, you're like, how do we do this and manage
our children?
Or maybe you're an early parent and you have young, young children at home.
You need a little bit of mentoring as far as how do you navigate that?
Or maybe you have an elderly parent that you're taking care of at home.
Those are some things that you might not want to talk to just everybody about.
And then sometimes you're starting to write publications and you're like, well, who's
the first person who can see my first ugly, really ugly draft without judging me, without
feeling as if it needs to be perfect?
Who is the person who can read my very early drafts?
Who's the person who needs to read my final draft?
Who's the person who can help me brainstorm ideas for submitting for grant funding?
So there's a whole lot of that going on and a whole lot of need that you have as a faculty
member.
Okay.
So we take the one faculty member who's your mentor and we say, mentor me.
So that one person is expected to help you in your career, help you navigate your institution,
help you figure out what research grants to apply for, help you figure out what manuscripts
you should be writing, help you figure out how to move those manuscripts forward.
But journals, I mean, oh my goodness, the list of your needs is endless.
Remember that mentor is probably a clinician scientist as well who has other challenges
and other priorities.
And so the challenge is you have a need for mentoring on many levels.
You have a need for support on many levels.
And then we talk about sponsorship.
We talk about mentorship.
You have a need for all of those and they cannot reside in one person.
Okay.
You cannot reside in one person.
The third thing I need to tell you is that mentors are kind of like early, they're kind
of parents of little children.
Okay.
When you are a newbie clinician without the eight to 10 years of research training that
your PhD colleagues have, you need a lot.
There's a lot you don't know.
There's a lot you don't know that you don't know.
And so it really is like a parent who is a newborn, a newborn who's like, help me mentor,
help me.
I want to meet with you every week.
Help me mentor.
I also want to talk to you by email every day.
Help me mentor.
I want to talk to you daily.
I know you're not that needy.
But some of us were.
I was a needy mentee.
I really was, but I needed so much.
And the only person I knew was this amazing mentor who was so lovely and she would answer
all my questions.
And I would be in her office for hours just talking about how it was all not working.
We didn't even talk about your need for clinical mentoring as you're leading a clinical program.
You need a lot.
And your mentors are overwhelmed.
They're like the parent who doesn't sleep at night because their babies are always crying.
And that's like, you're just one mentee with so many needs.
And what if they have two?
I have three.
It's like having triplets.
Oh my gosh, it feels so overwhelming.
I don't even want to think about it.
But it really is like, you know, if you think about the picture of a diapering parent, that's
the picture of a mentor of an early career faculty who has huge deficits in their research
training.
Okay.
I'm getting to the good news.
I just need you to know that I start with the bad news because, you know, I need you
to understand how dire it is.
Then I also want you to understand that there is good news at the end.
I'm going to save the good news for last.
Okay.
All right.
One of the things I also want you to recognize is that faculty do not have the bandwidth.
They I mean, they just and I don't really like the term bandwidth.
It's a nice term that I hear people throw around.
I don't have bandwidth to help you.
You know, it's not really about bandwidth.
It's about your choices.
You choose what you do and everything else just kind of falls to the side.
Of course, I don't have the bandwidth to help you shop for groceries.
That's just not my priority.
I will never have the bandwidth for that.
But I might have the bandwidth to help you work on your on your grants because that's
a priority for me.
It's not really about bandwidth.
It's about priority.
And the reality is that mentors have a lot of other priorities besides you.
I remember thinking I was like, oh, my mentor doesn't think about me.
And that's correct.
Your mentor is, first of all, thinking about their own lives way before they think about
yours.
And it's OK.
It's just it's just the way it is.
Don't judge them.
Don't be upset with them.
Just recognize that they're human, just like you.
OK, now I want to share with you the good news.
There is good news.
But before I share the good news, I want to remind you of what I said earlier, that there's
a structural problem with clinicians being asked to delete research who actually don't
have research training.
That is the primary structural challenge.
OK, the second challenge is that mentors are being asked to close a gap that systems have
been created to fill.
Research training doesn't happen with depending on only one mentor.
By the time you get to your senior mentor as a researcher, you've you've come along.
Many mentors have helped you through.
The system has helped you figure out what to do.
You've been in community with other researchers.
There's a whole system that goes into place to prepare a researcher, a PhD researcher
for eventual research for their research, PhD.
And there's a whole system that develops you as a clinician, too.
But that system is gone in your research training.
It's not there.
And a mentor, one person is asked to fill that.
Wow, it's overwhelming.
Mentors are people.
They've got a lot to do.
And mentors have limited bandwidth or they have other priorities and they're not constantly
thinking about your career development as much as they want to.
They are like a sleep deprived parents of triplets if they have more than one mentee
or maybe even a sleep deprived parent of one.
Oh, he had one at a time.
Oh my goodness.
Oh, it's hard.
Anyway, now on to the good news.
What is the good news?
The good news is to recognize that it takes a system or a system of things to transform
a person from I don't know how to do research to I lead a research program.
I know what to do.
I help other people to do it.
But there's a whole system.
You can take advantage of that system for yourself as well.
Okay.
Number one, let go of this whole meant I need a one mentor that will help me model.
Let it go.
Okay, I want you to pause and just say after me, I let go every unrealistic expectation
associated with my research mentoring.
All right.
I want you to say it one more time, I let go of every unrealistic expectation associated
with my research mentoring.
Thank you for saying that.
Thank you for indulging me.
I want you to say one more thing.
One mentor is not enough for all I need.
Okay, please say it one more time.
One mentor is not enough for all I need.
Thank you.
Now, finally, there's one more thing I need you to say.
I need a system, a community to help me thrive in research.
Okay, one more time.
I need a system.
I need a community to help me thrive in my research.
Thank you for indulging me.
And now I'm giving you the tools to your success.
Number one, it's time to set yourself up with systems that help you succeed.
Systems, what are those systems?
A network of mentors.
And I'm not just talking about guru scientists that are doing it.
They're awesome.
Some of them not great mentors.
They're awesome.
But there's a whole system of scientists who move research forward.
You're going to leverage as many of those mentors as possible.
Okay?
You're going to say, what do I need for X, Y, Z?
And who is the person best equipped to give it to me?
You're not asking one mentor to become your mother.
You're not asking a mentor to become your soulmate.
You're saying, who is the network or what are the different people in the network that
can support me in very specific ways?
I need to learn to write a grant.
Who can help me do that well?
Now, this is important.
You start by defining your needs.
The reason you define your needs is because then you can say, well, do I need a person?
Or is there already a structure within my institution to support me to do that?
For example, if you need to learn how to write better, your mentor doesn't have to teach
you.
There is likely a writing program within your institution that can help you do that.
Do you see?
Take the pressure of this one person who could teach you many things and they could teach
you writing, but writing is not their one skill.
There are people in the writing program at your institution and writing is the only thing
they do.
When you want to learn to enhance your research, you want to learn from the best of the best.
And so you don't go to your mentor.
They're really good.
Their writing is awesome.
I give that to them.
You got to be really good in the science communication thing.
But there are people whose job it is to teach writing.
And that's who you go to to enhance your writing skill.
Another example, if your need is proposal development, if your institution sponsors
research in any way or supports research in any way, there is an office that helps people
develop proposals.
I need to say that again.
There is an office that helps people develop proposals.
Don't go to your mentor first.
Go to the office that helps people develop proposals so you can get advice on how to
develop a good proposal.
You know what?
They may not even have time to meet with you, but they'll say, we've created a series of
100 resources.
And you will be able to tap into those resources for your forward motion.
Tap into systems.
Number two, tap into communities.
There are like-minded people like you who are trying to lead research programs.
Do not do this by yourself.
Okay.
Do not do this by yourself.
Okay.
You will succeed because you are leveraging systems for your success and you are leveraging
community for your success.
You will succeed because you desire to.
And now you understand that traditional mentoring systems are not going to get you what you
need, but you, you can get yourself what you need.
The third thing I'm going to invite you to think about, and I say it because I'm a coach,
so you know that I have a bias towards coaching, is that you are a high-level player.
Can I just tell you about you?
If you're a physician, you've come through four years of med school or more, you've come
through residency training, you've come through fellowship training, and now you're like,
I did all that, and now I want to lead a research program, you're an incredible person.
You are like the best of the best.
You're the rarest of the rare.
You're a great player.
And every great player needs to enhance their ability to play.
You need somebody who helps you accelerate your potential, and a coach will help you
do that.
I, as your coach, if you chose me, I would help you do that.
Because, you know what?
As your coach, I'm not going to do your work for you.
I'm not even going to wake up in the morning with you when it's time to do your reps.
I'm just not going to be there with you.
But what I will do is help you to craft a program for your continued forward motion and your
success.
I'll help you craft a structure that helps you understand, okay, who are the people who
need to be on my mentoring team?
Who are the people I need to fire from the mentoring team?
That sounds kind of harsh.
Who are the people we need to let go of respectfully from our mentoring team because maybe they
tear us down?
These are all the things that I, and not just me, any coach can really help you structure
this experience that you're about to build.
Because you're not going to go forward looking for one mentor to save you.
You're going to develop a system and create or become part of a community that supports
your success.
Look, I want to tell you that you can do this.
I want to invite you to take the very first step, just one step this week, one step.
I want you to ask yourself, what are the systems at my institution that support my research
development?
I'm asking you to not think about mentors right now.
I'm just thinking about systems.
Is there a writing program at your institution?
Is there a place that you can go to get your grant proposal looked at?
Is there someone who can help you with resources for your proposal development?
Okay, I'm asking you to look away from your clinicians, look away from your mentors, and
start looking to the systems within your institution that support research.
This week I want you to make a list of them, and I want you to choose one.
I want you to just access that one resource in support of your career.
One, just one, just one, just choose one, and access that resource.
You're not going to ask them to be a mentor.
You're accessing a system.
Choose one, do it this week, and if you want to, come tell me about what that resource
is and how you leveraged it in support of your research program.
Now imagine if you just came up with a list of five to seven systems and you chose one
system every week to leverage in support of your career development.
Imagine the kind of system you would have at the end of the year working for you towards
your growth as a scholar, your growth as a researcher, your growth as someone who creates
a body of work that transforms and enhances patient care.
Oh my gosh, that would be so awesome.
I can't wait to see it.
Yep, definitely coming.
I can see it happening already.
I'm going to invite you to embrace it and make it part of your experience.
If you don't already have a coach and you're looking for one, I'm here for you.
Let me know how I can serve you.
We'll set up a mentoring, set up a coaching call.
I have mentees, and so sometimes I think about mentoring.
My coaching work is different from the mentoring, but I'm inviting you to set up a coaching
consulting call.
Let's talk about your dreams.
Let's talk about your goals and how I can help you get there.
All right, enjoy your time away from this podcast.
I'm looking forward to the very next one to help you succeed.
All right, you take care and please share this with someone else.
Bye bye.
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they
have a mentor.
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.
Someone else needs to hear it.
So take a minute right now and share it.
As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation
of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.