1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills 2 00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260 to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 3 00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340 As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients. 4 00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380 When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find 5 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780 that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research 6 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200 program. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480 Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit. 8 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580 However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs. 9 00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200 For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800 the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,100 Now introducing your host, Treacy Unwomenat. 12 00:01:01,100 --> 00:01:03,060 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast. 13 00:01:03,060 --> 00:01:07,380 I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be talking with you today. 14 00:01:07,380 --> 00:01:13,020 I'm particularly excited to announce my special guest today, Dr. Funke Afolabi Brown. 15 00:01:13,020 --> 00:01:16,660 She's a sleep expert, and I have to tell you, I'm a physician. 16 00:01:16,660 --> 00:01:20,060 I've been doing this a long time, and I don't know too many sleep experts. 17 00:01:20,060 --> 00:01:26,420 She's actually a board certified sleep medicine doctor, and she's here to help us understand 18 00:01:26,420 --> 00:01:30,100 how sleep is critical to our advancement in academia. 19 00:01:30,100 --> 00:01:33,820 Dr. Funke, welcome to the show. 20 00:01:33,820 --> 00:01:36,380 Thank you so much for having me, Dr. Toyosi. 21 00:01:36,380 --> 00:01:38,180 I'm excited to be here. 22 00:01:38,180 --> 00:01:44,100 So tell us your journey to becoming a sleep doctor, and what does it even mean? 23 00:01:44,100 --> 00:01:49,460 Why should we care that you do the kind of work that you do? 24 00:01:49,460 --> 00:01:55,180 So you know, my own journey to this, you know, just like with most of us and the work we 25 00:01:55,180 --> 00:02:01,860 do, hopefully, really comes from a place of some of the experiences. 26 00:02:01,860 --> 00:02:03,740 We've had some of our stories. 27 00:02:03,740 --> 00:02:10,420 So I started off like most of us in medicine, extremely sleep deprived, burning the candles 28 00:02:10,420 --> 00:02:17,960 on both ends and feeling like sleep was expendable, like sleep was an inconvenience. 29 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:22,980 And that was whether that was intentionally unintentionally, just really what the narrative 30 00:02:22,980 --> 00:02:23,980 was. 31 00:02:23,980 --> 00:02:25,140 So I didn't know better. 32 00:02:25,140 --> 00:02:33,740 And so after medical school, and then residency and having kids during residency and doing 33 00:02:33,740 --> 00:02:39,660 the same during fellowship, I really hit a wall where I was exhausted all the time. 34 00:02:39,660 --> 00:02:45,500 I was not performing at the best of my ability, and I knew it. 35 00:02:45,500 --> 00:02:48,820 And it was impacting my relationships. 36 00:02:48,820 --> 00:02:56,820 And so then I had to really shift because I knew, I know that I am here to accomplish 37 00:02:56,820 --> 00:02:57,820 so much. 38 00:02:57,820 --> 00:03:03,140 And I knew that that version of me, that tired version of me was really not going to get 39 00:03:03,140 --> 00:03:06,000 to where I wanted to get to. 40 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:12,700 And so I started making changes really around just resting my body, learning to embrace 41 00:03:12,700 --> 00:03:15,460 rest as a tool for recovery. 42 00:03:15,460 --> 00:03:20,660 And then from there, I just kind of started to run with it because I realized how much 43 00:03:20,660 --> 00:03:23,580 it changed my ability to set boundaries. 44 00:03:23,580 --> 00:03:30,140 Because if I set boundaries to guard my bedtime, to guard my rest, then it helped me prioritize 45 00:03:30,140 --> 00:03:31,140 better. 46 00:03:31,140 --> 00:03:33,980 It helped me figure out what was really important to me. 47 00:03:33,980 --> 00:03:39,860 And it helped me learn to say no and say yes to the things that really truly were aligned 48 00:03:39,860 --> 00:03:41,600 with my values. 49 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:47,380 And so I went on, continued my training, did some more. 50 00:03:47,380 --> 00:03:54,220 I did a pulmonary fellowship and then also went ahead and did a sleep medicine fellowship, 51 00:03:54,220 --> 00:03:59,940 really coming in initially just to learn about sleep disorders like sleep apnea and all the 52 00:03:59,940 --> 00:04:06,300 other things, but then really literally stumbled upon sleep health as just a critical aspect 53 00:04:06,300 --> 00:04:11,340 of our wellness and our overall well-being. 54 00:04:11,340 --> 00:04:18,860 And then in moving forward, I was seeing patients in my clinic and kept hearing the same theme, 55 00:04:18,860 --> 00:04:23,660 exhausted, deprived moms like I was bringing their children in. 56 00:04:23,660 --> 00:04:29,780 And I saw that I really had an opportunity where not only could I change the lives of 57 00:04:29,780 --> 00:04:33,620 these children by helping them sleep better, but I could actually intervene in some of 58 00:04:33,620 --> 00:04:40,840 the issues that the women were experiencing that was getting in their way of getting restful 59 00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:41,840 sleep. 60 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:44,420 And so that's how Restful Sleep MD was born. 61 00:04:44,420 --> 00:04:47,380 A beautiful story. 62 00:04:47,380 --> 00:04:48,380 Thank you for sharing. 63 00:04:48,380 --> 00:04:55,140 One of the things that I want to point out is that you are a sleep coach and you particularly 64 00:04:55,140 --> 00:04:58,800 help women and you help children as well. 65 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,980 And so I think it's interesting just thinking of sleep. 66 00:05:02,980 --> 00:05:08,020 You used two terms earlier that I feel like I want to come back to right away and you 67 00:05:08,020 --> 00:05:13,020 talked about sleep ability and forget the second term, was it sleep capacity? 68 00:05:13,020 --> 00:05:14,020 Sleep opportunity. 69 00:05:14,020 --> 00:05:18,100 Sleep opportunity and sleep capacity. 70 00:05:18,100 --> 00:05:21,620 So I want you to speak because here we are as clinicians. 71 00:05:21,620 --> 00:05:23,220 We're taking call. 72 00:05:23,220 --> 00:05:24,580 Sometimes we're up at night. 73 00:05:24,580 --> 00:05:28,340 So sleep is a challenge for us on the basis of the work that we do. 74 00:05:28,340 --> 00:05:34,000 And then when we're not on call, try to get back into a cycle where we can sleep restfully. 75 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:35,260 It's difficult. 76 00:05:35,260 --> 00:05:40,900 What do you recommend for clinicians who are, who actively are taking call and having sleep 77 00:05:40,900 --> 00:05:43,300 disrupted really as part of their jobs? 78 00:05:43,300 --> 00:05:47,420 Yeah, that's a great question and something that I encounter commonly. 79 00:05:47,420 --> 00:05:50,500 So I think it's really important to step back and say where the issue is. 80 00:05:50,500 --> 00:05:59,660 So the two terms along those lines, that is sleep deprivation and insomnia. 81 00:05:59,660 --> 00:06:07,540 And our sleep deprivation really talks about either intentional or behavioral choices that 82 00:06:07,540 --> 00:06:16,100 we are making, which is getting in our way of sleep in the sense of, like you said, or 83 00:06:16,100 --> 00:06:17,580 environmental choices. 84 00:06:17,580 --> 00:06:22,420 So you have a schedule that does not allow you getting enough sleep. 85 00:06:22,420 --> 00:06:24,320 You were working shifts. 86 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,820 You have a child who's not sleeping. 87 00:06:26,820 --> 00:06:30,720 And so because of that, you're not able to get a sleep you're supposed to. 88 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,500 You're binge watching that we click on social media. 89 00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:38,260 And so because of that, you don't have adequate sleep opportunity. 90 00:06:38,260 --> 00:06:42,700 So as a result of that, you experience sleep deprivation, which is really getting less 91 00:06:42,700 --> 00:06:46,860 than the recommended hours of sleep over a long period of time. 92 00:06:46,860 --> 00:06:47,860 Right. 93 00:06:47,860 --> 00:06:52,860 And then with insomnia, there's actually sleep opportunity, meaning that you've intentionally 94 00:06:52,860 --> 00:06:56,620 put everything down and said, I'm going to sleep now. 95 00:06:56,620 --> 00:07:02,420 And you're having the difficulties falling asleep, staying asleep, or you're waking up 96 00:07:02,420 --> 00:07:05,260 earlier than your desired week of time. 97 00:07:05,260 --> 00:07:06,900 And it's causing daytime impairment. 98 00:07:06,900 --> 00:07:12,620 Both of them cause daytime impairment, but the causes are different. 99 00:07:12,620 --> 00:07:20,300 And I would say many times in, you know, clinicians, in people in academic medicine, professionals, 100 00:07:20,300 --> 00:07:24,300 sometimes they struggle with both of them. 101 00:07:24,300 --> 00:07:27,540 Many times they just really are sleep deprived. 102 00:07:27,540 --> 00:07:34,580 And so I think it's important to first figure out where am I on this spectrum? 103 00:07:34,580 --> 00:07:38,340 Is it fully because of my schedule, my work schedule? 104 00:07:38,340 --> 00:07:41,860 What does my sleep look like on the days that I am off? 105 00:07:41,860 --> 00:07:44,700 Do I have a hard time sleeping then? 106 00:07:44,700 --> 00:07:48,540 Or am I just able to sleep and just take extra hours? 107 00:07:48,540 --> 00:07:52,340 So I think that's the first step, because that's how we can tell if it's just a matter 108 00:07:52,340 --> 00:07:55,220 of sleep deprivation or insufficient sleep. 109 00:07:55,220 --> 00:07:57,820 Then we've got to have you set boundaries. 110 00:07:57,820 --> 00:08:02,820 We've got to have you advocate for yourself to say, okay, I need to figure this thing 111 00:08:02,820 --> 00:08:03,820 out. 112 00:08:03,820 --> 00:08:07,620 If I'm going home from my shift, I'm not going to the grocery store. 113 00:08:07,620 --> 00:08:09,700 I'm going to go home and get the sleep I need, right? 114 00:08:09,700 --> 00:08:12,220 So your approach is a little bit different. 115 00:08:12,220 --> 00:08:16,900 If you have insomnia where you're like, okay, finally, yes, I am intentional. 116 00:08:16,900 --> 00:08:21,260 I'm about to get to sleep and my mind starts to race. 117 00:08:21,260 --> 00:08:26,380 I have this increased cognitive arousal where I just really can't seem to settle down and 118 00:08:26,380 --> 00:08:27,380 quiet my mind. 119 00:08:27,380 --> 00:08:29,620 And because of that, it's keeping me up. 120 00:08:29,620 --> 00:08:32,940 Or, you know, I have a sleep disorder. 121 00:08:32,940 --> 00:08:37,460 I have restless legs syndrome or sleep apnea or something of that sort. 122 00:08:37,460 --> 00:08:43,100 Then we need to build a treatment plan that's going to address that. 123 00:08:43,100 --> 00:08:48,820 So it's very important to kind of start off with where is the problem? 124 00:08:48,820 --> 00:08:53,460 Is it an ability kind of problem or capacity kind of problem? 125 00:08:53,460 --> 00:08:55,860 Or is it an opportunity sort of issue? 126 00:08:55,860 --> 00:08:58,900 And then you can take it from there. 127 00:08:58,900 --> 00:09:02,860 These are really, really insightful thoughts and thank you for sharing them. 128 00:09:02,860 --> 00:09:08,220 You know, one thing you said earlier was the importance of like the sleep, being able to 129 00:09:08,220 --> 00:09:11,980 master your sleep, you talk about it helping you set boundaries. 130 00:09:11,980 --> 00:09:14,300 Can you talk about the benefits? 131 00:09:14,300 --> 00:09:19,620 I mean, I feel as if as clinicians, we understand the importance of sleep, but then we are kind 132 00:09:19,620 --> 00:09:22,860 of burning the candle at both ends and we feel like sleep is what's expendable. 133 00:09:22,860 --> 00:09:28,060 But can you really speak to, especially for us, academic clinicians, thinking about what 134 00:09:28,060 --> 00:09:31,620 are the benefits of sleep that we should strongly be thinking about? 135 00:09:31,620 --> 00:09:32,620 Yeah. 136 00:09:32,620 --> 00:09:38,220 So, you know, I would start off with sleep not just being something we do at the end 137 00:09:38,220 --> 00:09:39,220 of the day. 138 00:09:39,220 --> 00:09:41,640 Sleep is actually a superpower. 139 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:49,260 It's a tool that we can use to our advantage because one of the benefits of sleep includes 140 00:09:49,260 --> 00:09:57,060 improved cognition and executive decision making and creativity. 141 00:09:57,060 --> 00:10:02,740 And every single one of those things you're going to need to succeed in academia, succeed 142 00:10:02,740 --> 00:10:03,740 in life. 143 00:10:03,740 --> 00:10:10,740 So whether it's writing a new grant, coming up with a research question or parenting, 144 00:10:10,740 --> 00:10:12,620 you need all those tools. 145 00:10:12,620 --> 00:10:18,940 Emotional intelligence, there's studies that have shown that when team leaders are sleep 146 00:10:18,940 --> 00:10:24,220 deprived, meaning that they're not prioritizing sleep or they're not sleeping well, their 147 00:10:24,220 --> 00:10:28,420 team members are less effective. 148 00:10:28,420 --> 00:10:29,420 Imagine that. 149 00:10:29,420 --> 00:10:35,300 So it not only impacts your own work performance as an individual, it can impact the team you're 150 00:10:35,300 --> 00:10:41,580 leading because they're not getting the motivated leader that they were hoping for. 151 00:10:41,580 --> 00:10:47,420 They're not getting the creative leader they were hoping for, the emotionally intelligent 152 00:10:47,420 --> 00:10:48,420 leader. 153 00:10:48,420 --> 00:10:50,980 So I would say that's a big one. 154 00:10:50,980 --> 00:10:55,720 Another thing that sleep really is important for is rest and restoration. 155 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,140 So several of our hormone regulation occurs during sleep. 156 00:10:59,140 --> 00:11:06,520 Both hormone, insulin, all those things that are needed for just our regular bodily function. 157 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:15,980 And so with poor sleep comes impaired metabolism, higher risk of various diseases, heart disease, 158 00:11:15,980 --> 00:11:23,500 metabolic diseases like diabetes, obesity, hypertension, strokes, all those things can. 159 00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:29,540 And then there's now, I mean, there've been studies that are seeing that our brains have 160 00:11:29,540 --> 00:11:36,380 a system called the glymphatic system, which offers a cleansing action that removes waste 161 00:11:36,380 --> 00:11:38,380 products from the surface of our brains. 162 00:11:38,380 --> 00:11:44,400 And one of those includes beta amyloid, which has been found to be a culprit when we have 163 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,640 development of Alzheimer's. 164 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:52,740 And so that those memory lapses, that foggy feeling you're constantly struggling with, 165 00:11:52,740 --> 00:11:55,900 some of that is probably related to poor sleep. 166 00:11:55,900 --> 00:12:01,980 And so, and in our mood, right, depression, anxiety, emotion regulation occurs during 167 00:12:01,980 --> 00:12:02,980 sleep. 168 00:12:02,980 --> 00:12:08,020 And so when we lose the ability to get good sleep, we're going to find ourselves, you 169 00:12:08,020 --> 00:12:11,180 know, more ill-tempered. 170 00:12:11,180 --> 00:12:17,700 If you already have that tendency to be more anxious, things are just a lot more exaggerated, 171 00:12:17,700 --> 00:12:24,300 so there is a bidirectional relationship, but that association definitely exists. 172 00:12:24,300 --> 00:12:29,300 And in our immune system, imagine that there've been studies now where they looked at people 173 00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:34,020 who had sleep deprivation and people who had sufficient sleep. 174 00:12:34,020 --> 00:12:39,820 I don't know when that IRB was approved, but they injected them with, I think it was either 175 00:12:39,820 --> 00:12:45,260 rhino virus, and they looked at who got sick, and it was those who were sleep deprived compared 176 00:12:45,260 --> 00:12:46,260 to those that were not. 177 00:12:46,260 --> 00:12:53,300 So that common cold to COVID, to everything else going on, you're definitely more susceptible 178 00:12:53,300 --> 00:12:54,620 when you don't sleep well. 179 00:12:54,620 --> 00:12:59,100 So if you're calling in sick and feeling sick all the time, guess what suffers? 180 00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:02,060 Your work, your productivity, your performance. 181 00:13:02,060 --> 00:13:04,980 So it does affect, I would say, every aspect of our lives. 182 00:13:04,980 --> 00:13:08,700 So I think that's why I say sleep is a superpower. 183 00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:09,700 Wow. 184 00:13:09,700 --> 00:13:15,780 At the end of that, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, not sleeping is a disorder. 185 00:13:15,780 --> 00:13:16,780 I mean, it's real. 186 00:13:16,780 --> 00:13:17,780 It's a problem. 187 00:13:17,780 --> 00:13:23,220 And so now I'm thinking, huh, there's a need for intervention. 188 00:13:23,220 --> 00:13:24,220 So what do you do? 189 00:13:24,220 --> 00:13:29,380 Like you've been, I mean, burning the camera at both ends, pushing sleep away to make things 190 00:13:29,380 --> 00:13:30,380 work. 191 00:13:30,380 --> 00:13:32,220 It's become a way of life, unfortunately. 192 00:13:32,220 --> 00:13:36,180 And hey, for many of us, we're functioning well. 193 00:13:36,180 --> 00:13:41,580 We feel like we're at the top of our game, even though we know we're sleep deprived. 194 00:13:41,580 --> 00:13:42,580 What's the first step? 195 00:13:42,580 --> 00:13:46,100 How do we take the first step towards wholeness? 196 00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:47,500 Yeah, no way. 197 00:13:47,500 --> 00:13:50,300 And you're right. 198 00:13:50,300 --> 00:13:54,020 And that's why that narrative has to change. 199 00:13:54,020 --> 00:13:55,700 I like what Arianna Hoefnit said. 200 00:13:55,700 --> 00:13:59,700 She said exhaustion is not a badge of honor. 201 00:13:59,700 --> 00:14:01,060 It's a sign of chaos. 202 00:14:01,060 --> 00:14:06,940 So while we feel like we are doing well at the top of our game, I think we really have 203 00:14:06,940 --> 00:14:08,300 to come back to that mindset. 204 00:14:08,300 --> 00:14:11,100 Like are we really at the top of our game? 205 00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:12,180 What does that look like? 206 00:14:12,180 --> 00:14:13,560 What's going on in our minds? 207 00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:15,540 What's going on in our energy level? 208 00:14:15,540 --> 00:14:19,280 Are we, is there room for growth or improvement? 209 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,460 What if we were better rested? 210 00:14:21,460 --> 00:14:26,820 Imagine the speed by which we could be turning out those papers or coming up with those creative 211 00:14:26,820 --> 00:14:31,900 ideas or our capacity to actually do more. 212 00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:33,880 And that's voluntarily, right? 213 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,900 So I think it's really important to come and, you know, almost like have a come to Jesus 214 00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:42,740 moment and say, really, what is, what is, what, where am I? 215 00:14:42,740 --> 00:14:44,060 How good do I really feel? 216 00:14:44,060 --> 00:14:48,940 Am I, am I patient enough as I would like to or am I anxious? 217 00:14:48,940 --> 00:14:49,940 Right? 218 00:14:49,940 --> 00:14:54,340 Like I think it's really important to come to that truth and understand that. 219 00:14:54,340 --> 00:14:59,580 And then the next step is starting with setting boundaries. 220 00:14:59,580 --> 00:15:02,420 Like it's not just something that's going to happen. 221 00:15:02,420 --> 00:15:05,780 You're not just suddenly going to decide you're going to sleep well. 222 00:15:05,780 --> 00:15:10,860 If you've been someone who's been doing all the things, you're going to be comfortable. 223 00:15:10,860 --> 00:15:14,180 You're going to have to come to terms with the fact that you may need to cut back, cut 224 00:15:14,180 --> 00:15:19,740 back on all your obligations because you do want to create sleep opportunity. 225 00:15:19,740 --> 00:15:25,260 The recommendations are to get seven to nine hours of sleep every night as much as possible. 226 00:15:25,260 --> 00:15:28,340 And so where are you going to find that if you've been someone who's been filling your 227 00:15:28,340 --> 00:15:33,420 day with activities and living only four hours for sleep at night, you're going to have to 228 00:15:33,420 --> 00:15:34,420 get creative. 229 00:15:34,420 --> 00:15:38,460 And I would say when getting creative, you can start where you are. 230 00:15:38,460 --> 00:15:42,540 If you've been sleeping four hours and it may not be easy to just double up and find 231 00:15:42,540 --> 00:15:47,540 an extra four hours if you filled your day at night with all kinds of things. 232 00:15:47,540 --> 00:15:52,900 So you may start slow and say, okay, you know what, by 30 minutes, I'm going to increase 233 00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:54,220 it by 30 minutes, right? 234 00:15:54,220 --> 00:15:56,780 I'm going to set, again, can set those small goals. 235 00:15:56,780 --> 00:16:03,420 I'm going to increase my total sleep time by 30 minutes by going to bed 30 minutes earlier. 236 00:16:03,420 --> 00:16:07,420 And then you slowly increase that maybe by week or so you hit your goal and pay close 237 00:16:07,420 --> 00:16:11,940 attention to your body because you're going to start to experience change in terms of 238 00:16:11,940 --> 00:16:16,780 your energy, your mood, your appetite, your metabolism, motivation. 239 00:16:16,780 --> 00:16:17,780 You're going to start to see that. 240 00:16:17,780 --> 00:16:22,180 So let that be like a feedback loop to say, oh, wow, this stuff works. 241 00:16:22,180 --> 00:16:25,300 And then, you know, you build from there. 242 00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:30,300 And you know, and then of course, I think it's really important that we, one of the 243 00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:34,300 things I talk about in certain boundaries is you got to see your sleep. 244 00:16:34,300 --> 00:16:38,420 Like, you know, you're going to see a multidisciplinary team. 245 00:16:38,420 --> 00:16:40,540 You're not just not going to show up for them. 246 00:16:40,540 --> 00:16:41,540 You're going to show up. 247 00:16:41,540 --> 00:16:44,540 You're not just going to say, oh, sorry, I have to run some errands for a friend who 248 00:16:44,540 --> 00:16:46,540 told me to take them to the grocery store. 249 00:16:46,540 --> 00:16:50,940 No, you're going to say, Hey friend, I need to go to the clinic where I'm going to see 250 00:16:50,940 --> 00:16:53,140 this multiple specialists. 251 00:16:53,140 --> 00:16:55,180 And so I'm not going to be able to meet up with you. 252 00:16:55,180 --> 00:16:56,180 I'm going to meet up with them. 253 00:16:56,180 --> 00:16:58,380 And that's what happens when we sleep every night. 254 00:16:58,380 --> 00:17:05,460 You're literally seeing your therapist, your psychiatrist, your neurologist, your endocrinologist, 255 00:17:05,460 --> 00:17:09,300 your nutritionist, you're seeing all those experts every night when you go to sleep. 256 00:17:09,300 --> 00:17:16,260 So you have to be very intentional about it, but then build up slowly, depending on where 257 00:17:16,260 --> 00:17:17,260 you are. 258 00:17:17,260 --> 00:17:21,020 And then finally, once you've created that opportunity, you got to look back and see 259 00:17:21,020 --> 00:17:24,020 is there, is there ability issues in that sense? 260 00:17:24,020 --> 00:17:25,620 Your body can generate sleep. 261 00:17:25,620 --> 00:17:29,500 Sometimes you just don't know, but if you have insomnia, if you feel like you're getting 262 00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:33,500 enough sleep and you're waking up still exhausted, then that might be the time to say, okay, 263 00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:37,220 I've got to get checked out to figure out what is going on. 264 00:17:37,220 --> 00:17:39,260 Thank you. 265 00:17:39,260 --> 00:17:40,580 Thank you so much. 266 00:17:40,580 --> 00:17:43,100 That was just really, really practical advice. 267 00:17:43,100 --> 00:17:48,660 Now I want to take it a step further because you also coach families in terms of children's 268 00:17:48,660 --> 00:17:54,380 sleep and for, for many of my, my listeners and primarily mothers, you know, they are 269 00:17:54,380 --> 00:17:57,260 struggling with sleep, but their children are too. 270 00:17:57,260 --> 00:18:00,680 And their children not being able to sleep impacts their ability to sleep. 271 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:05,500 What advice do you have for parents who are struggling with their children's sleep? 272 00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:06,580 Yeah. 273 00:18:06,580 --> 00:18:13,900 So insomnia in children actually forms close to 40% of sleep disorders in children. 274 00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:20,780 So at some point or the other, children will have some kind of, we'll call them behavioral 275 00:18:20,780 --> 00:18:21,780 sleep issues. 276 00:18:21,780 --> 00:18:26,460 And actually what I say, it's not like they have bad behavior, but then their habits that 277 00:18:26,460 --> 00:18:32,620 they get into that prevents them from being able to sleep appropriately. 278 00:18:32,620 --> 00:18:38,340 And so that might be, you know, a child that needs the parents to be in bed with them to 279 00:18:38,340 --> 00:18:44,220 fall asleep or a child that comes out and asks multiple requests at bedtime or a child 280 00:18:44,220 --> 00:18:50,380 that's, you know, has bedtimes years or a child that's tossing and turning and has nightmares 281 00:18:50,380 --> 00:18:52,940 or sleep terrors or things like that at bedtime. 282 00:18:52,940 --> 00:18:54,300 So it's really important. 283 00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:59,860 I would say to first pay attention to what is going on with my child's sleep. 284 00:18:59,860 --> 00:19:01,140 And then you could build from this. 285 00:19:01,140 --> 00:19:07,700 So I think generally what I give families to even start as a foundation is an acronym 286 00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:10,340 that I use called create restful sleep habits. 287 00:19:10,340 --> 00:19:11,340 So it's C-R-E-H-C-E. 288 00:19:11,340 --> 00:19:16,300 And you know, of course you could Google sleep hygiene and then you get this whole laundry 289 00:19:16,300 --> 00:19:18,560 list of stuff that you don't know where to start from. 290 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,140 But I think this is a good place to start apart from setting that intention and you 291 00:19:22,140 --> 00:19:23,460 say, okay, where do I start? 292 00:19:23,460 --> 00:19:25,340 So start with this. 293 00:19:25,340 --> 00:19:28,320 Create stands for C stands for consistency. 294 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,660 So just make it a date with your sleep every night and your kids too. 295 00:19:32,660 --> 00:19:34,780 Because our circadian rhythm is hardwired. 296 00:19:34,780 --> 00:19:38,940 And so when we fall asleep at different times, it really causes a lot of dysregulation. 297 00:19:38,940 --> 00:19:43,980 And our circadian rhythms control so many other functions in our body apart from our 298 00:19:43,980 --> 00:19:45,600 sleep-wake cycle. 299 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:50,100 It controls our hormone health, our metabolism, our lung health. 300 00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:54,100 There's so many things that are tied to our GI system. 301 00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:57,460 There's so many things that are tied to our circadian rhythm. 302 00:19:57,460 --> 00:20:00,740 So you want to try to be as regular as possible. 303 00:20:00,740 --> 00:20:02,340 And that includes the weekend. 304 00:20:02,340 --> 00:20:07,140 And so you want to avoid excessive sleeping on the weekends and things like that. 305 00:20:07,140 --> 00:20:09,300 And then our stands for routine. 306 00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:11,900 So having a nice, calming bedtime routine. 307 00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:13,980 Our bedtime routines are not just for our kids. 308 00:20:13,980 --> 00:20:17,020 They are helpful for us as parents as well. 309 00:20:17,020 --> 00:20:21,980 And that wind down routine and nothing too crazy, just things that help us kind of slow 310 00:20:21,980 --> 00:20:22,980 down. 311 00:20:22,980 --> 00:20:27,240 Especially if as a family, we've all been running all day, it's going to be hard for 312 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,140 us to just hit the brakes suddenly. 313 00:20:29,140 --> 00:20:31,180 So really ease into it. 314 00:20:31,180 --> 00:20:35,700 Because what that does is it cues your brain to say it's time for sleep. 315 00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:37,100 And then E stands for the environment. 316 00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:39,140 So what kind of environment are you sleeping in? 317 00:20:39,140 --> 00:20:40,140 You want to check in. 318 00:20:40,140 --> 00:20:41,900 Is there light coming in? 319 00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:46,820 Because light coming into your room, either from the hallway or from outside, can disrupt 320 00:20:46,820 --> 00:20:50,700 your sleep because it then will make it hard for the melatonin, which is a sleep hormone 321 00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:53,860 to be fully produced for us to sleep well. 322 00:20:53,860 --> 00:21:00,780 And then you want to have a room that's cool because that would also promote good sleep. 323 00:21:00,780 --> 00:21:05,880 Then A usually stands for, I say, assign the bed for sleep and sleep fully in bed. 324 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,900 So the bed should not be a place where you are worried, where you're checking on your 325 00:21:09,900 --> 00:21:13,020 emails, where you're eating or watching TV. 326 00:21:13,020 --> 00:21:15,040 The bed is supposed to be for sleep. 327 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:20,340 And what that does is it strengthens the association between our brain and our bed. 328 00:21:20,340 --> 00:21:23,020 So when you get into bed, it's like bed, sleep, bed, sleep. 329 00:21:23,020 --> 00:21:27,860 It's not bed, maybe sleep, bed, maybe dinner time. 330 00:21:27,860 --> 00:21:31,260 So you really want to strengthen that association. 331 00:21:31,260 --> 00:21:32,260 T stands for technology. 332 00:21:32,260 --> 00:21:38,500 And we know that a whole podcast of its own because the technology has really, really 333 00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:40,860 eroded our sleep systems. 334 00:21:40,860 --> 00:21:47,420 The content we're consuming on our devices is very agitating to our nervous system and 335 00:21:47,420 --> 00:21:51,140 so can cause increased arousal, which makes it hard for us to wind down. 336 00:21:51,140 --> 00:21:56,540 And also, of course, the blue light that the devices exude suppresses melatonin production. 337 00:21:56,540 --> 00:21:58,560 And melatonin is a hormone of darkness. 338 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:03,060 So in the presence of blue light, it tricks our brains to think it's day time and then 339 00:22:03,060 --> 00:22:05,300 it makes it hard for us to sleep. 340 00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:10,100 And then finally, E is kind of look, take a look, do an audit. 341 00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:15,940 What are the things that I'm eating or consuming that could be getting in my way of good sleep? 342 00:22:15,940 --> 00:22:17,420 So am I eating heavy meals? 343 00:22:17,420 --> 00:22:18,700 You want to eliminate that. 344 00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:21,500 Am I taking caffeine too close to bedtime? 345 00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:22,500 That's a stimulant. 346 00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:23,940 So you want to avoid that. 347 00:22:23,940 --> 00:22:26,100 Am I drinking alcohol before bedtime? 348 00:22:26,100 --> 00:22:27,420 That's also sleep disruptor. 349 00:22:27,420 --> 00:22:28,420 You want to avoid that. 350 00:22:28,420 --> 00:22:30,540 So start with that. 351 00:22:30,540 --> 00:22:31,860 It's all evidence-based. 352 00:22:31,860 --> 00:22:33,220 You could grab a copy of this. 353 00:22:33,220 --> 00:22:39,140 This is like a cheat sheet I have on my website, which is restfulsleepapmd.com. 354 00:22:39,140 --> 00:22:41,380 And then if you're wondering, where do I start? 355 00:22:41,380 --> 00:22:43,660 I always say that that's a good place to start. 356 00:22:43,660 --> 00:22:47,260 And then you work on it one at a time with your family as well. 357 00:22:47,260 --> 00:22:48,260 Wow. 358 00:22:48,260 --> 00:22:49,900 This is really, really good stuff. 359 00:22:49,900 --> 00:22:52,940 And to be honest, it feels like really the tip of the iceberg. 360 00:22:52,940 --> 00:22:57,460 It sounds like there's so much opportunity to improve our sleep habits and alter the sleep 361 00:22:57,460 --> 00:22:59,780 habits of our families as well. 362 00:22:59,780 --> 00:23:05,660 So if people are thinking, wow, I really need to get better sleep, and you're a sleep coach, 363 00:23:05,660 --> 00:23:06,660 where can they find you? 364 00:23:06,660 --> 00:23:09,820 How can they access resources that you produce? 365 00:23:09,820 --> 00:23:10,820 Yeah. 366 00:23:10,820 --> 00:23:14,400 So again, my website is a good place to start. 367 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,460 You can go to restfulsleepapmd.com. 368 00:23:18,460 --> 00:23:21,860 And on there, there are blogs. 369 00:23:21,860 --> 00:23:25,300 And the blogs focus on just really practical tips around sleep. 370 00:23:25,300 --> 00:23:28,940 So like you said, we just scratched the surface here. 371 00:23:28,940 --> 00:23:35,180 Practical tips for sleep for your children, for you as a mom, as well as just information 372 00:23:35,180 --> 00:23:36,460 about my coaching program. 373 00:23:36,460 --> 00:23:37,460 So you've done this. 374 00:23:37,460 --> 00:23:38,580 You've done this all. 375 00:23:38,580 --> 00:23:40,140 You've read the books. 376 00:23:40,140 --> 00:23:44,940 You've tried all kinds of methods and you're still exhausted or your child is not sleeping. 377 00:23:44,940 --> 00:23:48,060 Then I would encourage you to take it a step further. 378 00:23:48,060 --> 00:23:53,820 Let's talk through why, because again, there's so many reasons why we don't sleep. 379 00:23:53,820 --> 00:23:55,940 Sometimes it's our minds that get in the way. 380 00:23:55,940 --> 00:23:59,500 Sometimes it's our bodies that get in the way, so we can kind of figure this out. 381 00:23:59,500 --> 00:24:04,940 I can hold you accountable to prioritizing your sleep, because sometimes it's a boundary 382 00:24:04,940 --> 00:24:05,940 issue. 383 00:24:05,940 --> 00:24:08,100 So we kind of delve into that. 384 00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:14,140 And then from there, we can get your energy restored back by working through the lens 385 00:24:14,140 --> 00:24:15,140 of sleep. 386 00:24:15,140 --> 00:24:18,780 And so whether it's your child that's the sleep disruptor and maybe not necessarily 387 00:24:18,780 --> 00:24:23,740 sleep apnea, we can help you the child sleep better so that you as a mom can sleep better 388 00:24:23,740 --> 00:24:27,140 and you could be the most productive version of you. 389 00:24:27,140 --> 00:24:29,060 Super awesome. 390 00:24:29,060 --> 00:24:30,060 Thank you. 391 00:24:30,060 --> 00:24:34,220 I feel as if whenever the conversation around sleep happens, it's like for all the other 392 00:24:34,220 --> 00:24:39,900 people, but for the clinicians, yeah, this is just sleep as part of the job or not sleeping 393 00:24:39,900 --> 00:24:41,700 as part of the job. 394 00:24:41,700 --> 00:24:47,700 And to be honest, I think there is a lot of, it can be a lot of pathology and academia 395 00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:50,420 and not sleeping is part of that pathology. 396 00:24:50,420 --> 00:24:55,980 In the sense that it's part of the board, everybody's doing it, but if we're going to 397 00:24:55,980 --> 00:24:59,060 live healthily, then we've got to make different decisions. 398 00:24:59,060 --> 00:25:00,860 So this really does speak to that. 399 00:25:00,860 --> 00:25:01,860 And I thank you. 400 00:25:01,860 --> 00:25:05,940 I thank you for being part of the sleep revolution. 401 00:25:05,940 --> 00:25:07,380 Thank you so much for having me. 402 00:25:07,380 --> 00:25:08,380 This has been fun. 403 00:25:08,380 --> 00:25:09,380 Yeah. 404 00:25:09,380 --> 00:25:13,100 So if there's one more thing that we haven't talked about that you feel like someone out 405 00:25:13,100 --> 00:25:17,900 there needs to hear, what is happening? 406 00:25:17,900 --> 00:25:22,700 I would say, I mean, I say this, it sounds cheesy, but it's not. 407 00:25:22,700 --> 00:25:27,300 And what I say is prioritize sleep to radiate your inner brilliance. 408 00:25:27,300 --> 00:25:32,100 And the reason why I say that is you are a gift to your world. 409 00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:35,180 You're not just in here by accident. 410 00:25:35,180 --> 00:25:41,980 You're a light that's not meant to hide, but sometimes the exhaustion and the chronic sleep 411 00:25:41,980 --> 00:25:47,340 deprivation really masks the ability of our world to see that light shine. 412 00:25:47,340 --> 00:25:51,680 So choose sleep and everything else will fall into place. 413 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:52,680 So choose sleep. 414 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:53,680 I think that's what I will say. 415 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:54,680 And start small. 416 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:55,680 Start from where you are. 417 00:25:55,680 --> 00:26:00,780 No matter how much you feel like your sleep system is broken, it is not broken. 418 00:26:00,780 --> 00:26:01,780 You could fix it. 419 00:26:01,780 --> 00:26:06,500 You could make a decision today to prioritize sleep and then you could take it from there. 420 00:26:06,500 --> 00:26:08,140 I love it. 421 00:26:08,140 --> 00:26:09,140 I love it. 422 00:26:09,140 --> 00:26:10,140 Prioritize sleep. 423 00:26:10,140 --> 00:26:13,820 Everybody, you heard Dr. Funcaf Salabi-Brown. 424 00:26:13,820 --> 00:26:14,820 Sleep is important. 425 00:26:14,820 --> 00:26:18,980 And don't think that because you're a clinician, you are exempt from all the challenges that 426 00:26:18,980 --> 00:26:25,940 happen with not sleeping, metabolic syndrome, diabetes, hypertension, heart disease, so 427 00:26:25,940 --> 00:26:28,260 many challenges that come. 428 00:26:28,260 --> 00:26:30,180 And we are in this for the long haul. 429 00:26:30,180 --> 00:26:35,260 We are not here to burn out and just burn out of our academic careers. 430 00:26:35,260 --> 00:26:37,780 And so definitely take sleep seriously. 431 00:26:37,780 --> 00:26:40,220 Dr. Funcaf has a whole series of resources. 432 00:26:40,220 --> 00:26:41,700 So please reach out. 433 00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:45,780 I will put her information in the show notes so that you have access to that as well. 434 00:26:45,780 --> 00:26:48,620 Dr. Aronk, it's been a pleasure to have you on the show. 435 00:26:48,620 --> 00:26:50,820 Thank you for being here. 436 00:26:50,820 --> 00:26:52,420 Thank you for having me. 437 00:26:52,420 --> 00:26:54,660 All right, everyone. 438 00:26:54,660 --> 00:26:59,260 I am so happy to have brought you this episode. 439 00:26:59,260 --> 00:27:02,740 I expect that we're going to be healthier people because of it. 440 00:27:02,740 --> 00:27:05,140 And I look forward to bringing you the next episode. 441 00:27:05,140 --> 00:27:06,140 See you next time. 442 00:27:06,140 --> 00:27:20,380 Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic 443 00:27:20,380 --> 00:27:25,700 clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they 444 00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:27,140 have a mentor. 445 00:27:27,140 --> 00:27:33,140 If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself. 446 00:27:33,140 --> 00:27:34,980 Someone else needs to hear it. 447 00:27:34,980 --> 00:27:39,040 So take a minute right now and share it. 448 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:44,500 As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation 449 00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:50,260 of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do health 450 00:27:50,260 --> 00:28:05,900 care.