1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860
Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

2
00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260
to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

3
00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340
As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

4
00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380
When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

5
00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780
that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

6
00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200
program.

7
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480
Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

8
00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580
However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

9
00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200
For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

10
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800
the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

11
00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,160
Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

12
00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,280
Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.

13
00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:08,200
I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be talking with you today.

14
00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,660
Thank you so much for tuning in or listening.

15
00:01:11,660 --> 00:01:16,060
I am talking about how to think about financial challenges in academia, and I want to just

16
00:01:16,060 --> 00:01:22,200
say that I'm not really going into depth about talking about financial challenges in today's

17
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:23,200
episode.

18
00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:28,000
In fact, what I'm going to do in a future episode is I'll bring somebody who is a financial

19
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:33,280
coach and have that person talk about how to really think about really growing your

20
00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:37,960
net worth even when you are earning your academic salary.

21
00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:41,840
And I have some thoughts about that today I will share, but I do want you to know that

22
00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,920
I'm not a financial counselor, not a financial coach.

23
00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,280
I'm not even here to give you advice about finances.

24
00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:54,560
I'm just here to set the stage for one way to think about financial challenges in academia.

25
00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,520
And why do I share this episode today?

26
00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:03,000
Well, you know, I'm at the animal meeting, and so the series of podcast episodes that

27
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:08,080
I'm releasing this week is really about things that I thought about at my animal meeting.

28
00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,560
And I have had conversations with lots of colleagues.

29
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,880
You know, the animal meeting is that place where you meet people that you may not meet

30
00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,640
but once a year.

31
00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:19,840
And when you meet, you take off from where you're left off.

32
00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,880
And it's like, yeah, I haven't spoken to you in a whole year, but I still am into you.

33
00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:24,880
I still dig you.

34
00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:26,640
I still have connected with you.

35
00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:28,040
I still resonate with you.

36
00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,880
And you can have these really great conversations.

37
00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:35,760
And so one of these conversations that I had was with a colleague who is so dear to me,

38
00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,080
so amazing, so wonderful.

39
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:43,000
And this colleague talked about, frankly, about financial challenges that they are having.

40
00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,120
So this is a colleague who switched from a private practice position into an academic

41
00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:48,120
position.

42
00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,760
And there is a big gap there as far as the financial things.

43
00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:57,680
And the thing about having a certain level of income as a family is that there is a certain

44
00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:03,720
expectation for the way you live that sometimes feels punitive if you have to cut down to

45
00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:05,160
fit the new standard, right?

46
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:06,840
You do what you have to do.

47
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:12,480
But definitely, you know, we had this frank conversation about the challenges of that,

48
00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:17,740
the challenges of taking a pay cut, coming into academia, and the challenges of seeing

49
00:03:17,740 --> 00:03:21,600
pay increases that really can make a difference, right?

50
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:26,760
And so it really did cause me to pause because part of the conversation in the background

51
00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:31,320
that I'm not necessarily going into is that there are disparities in pay, the disparities

52
00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:32,920
in pay on so many levels.

53
00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:37,880
And so, yes, the person I'm talking to is a woman of color in academic medicine.

54
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:43,520
When you put all people together in general, women of color in academic medicine tend to

55
00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,880
fall on the lower end of the pay spectrum.

56
00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:54,560
And you can talk about the different reasons why that is.

57
00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:56,720
But ultimately, it is.

58
00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,560
You know, it is the way it is.

59
00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,080
And you know, it's funny when these kinds of conversations come up, there's a lot of

60
00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:04,080
defensive posturing.

61
00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:08,520
Like, no, it's the way it is because if you only brought more value, there's a lot of

62
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:09,520
that.

63
00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,320
And it's like, well, can we just call it what it is?

64
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:16,000
And so there is a lot of bias in the system.

65
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:22,520
And there are systemic and systematic issues that lead to persistent pay disparities.

66
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:27,560
And so maybe this is not a conversation you're having with your colleagues.

67
00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:32,480
Maybe you're all good because you're earning at the top of your game, which is great.

68
00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,600
And congratulations and well done.

69
00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:39,400
I'm talking to a group of physicians that is struggling to make this thing in academia

70
00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:40,400
work.

71
00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,520
And that's my audience today.

72
00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,600
So if you're not my audience today, it's OK if you don't listen to the rest of this

73
00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:47,600
episode.

74
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:49,320
But if this resonates with you, then hang on.

75
00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,240
I have a little bit to say about it.

76
00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,840
Again, I'm going to have a coach come on to the show in a future episode.

77
00:04:55,840 --> 00:04:59,080
But today, I just want to share it because it's something that's on my mind, came up

78
00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,800
at the meeting, and I want to just speak to this person.

79
00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:07,560
And I want to speak to people who are like you, thinking about what am I thinking?

80
00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:13,160
Why am I here in academia taking the low salary to what end?

81
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:19,960
OK, so the first thing I want to share with you is to remember why.

82
00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,960
Remember that you chose at the beginning of all this journey, you chose to play the long

83
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:24,960
game.

84
00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,840
You chose because when you started medical school, you knew that at the end of the four

85
00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:31,240
years of medical school was not Nirvana.

86
00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,440
You knew that at the end of four years of medical school is going to be another period

87
00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:35,880
of training.

88
00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,360
You knew when you started residency, you know that it was going to end and then you were

89
00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,000
going to start from scratch.

90
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:47,160
If you went into practice right out of residency or you knew that you were going to end residency

91
00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,720
and then you were going to start this thing again called fellowship.

92
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,840
You chose to play the long game from the beginning.

93
00:05:52,840 --> 00:05:55,800
From the very beginning, you were looking at it.

94
00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,440
You're like 10, 20, 30 years into the future.

95
00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,320
That's how long this career is.

96
00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,320
So it's a choice that you made.

97
00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:06,840
And I just want to remind you of your choice that in the same way you've made a choice

98
00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:12,880
to be here and to play the long game, you can choose at any point in time not to.

99
00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:14,500
And it's OK.

100
00:06:14,500 --> 00:06:19,080
When I say things like that, when I say you can choose not to alarm bells go off in people's

101
00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,080
heads because they're like, what do you mean?

102
00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:22,880
Oh my gosh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

103
00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:23,880
What do you mean?

104
00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:25,840
And it just, you know, there's anxiety and there's fear.

105
00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:27,760
Like I don't know how to do anything else.

106
00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:28,760
I'm a physician.

107
00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:30,680
I have no other skills.

108
00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:40,680
And I just want to say stop, chill, relax and breathe in and breathe out and recognize

109
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,080
that you have so many skills.

110
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:49,440
You may not realize them because you are so close to your medicine, so close to your medical

111
00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,240
game that you forget all the possibilities that you have.

112
00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:57,520
You forget the medical school and the whole experience of training was really leadership

113
00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:58,520
training.

114
00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,520
You forget about your power to connect with people.

115
00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,880
You forget about your presentation skills.

116
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:09,640
You present you forget about your ability to go read something that you had no idea

117
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,840
about and come and present it as if you're the expert.

118
00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,060
You got many, many skills.

119
00:07:15,060 --> 00:07:19,080
And so if at any point in time you say, I don't do this thing anymore, you're going

120
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:20,360
to be OK.

121
00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,600
You are going to be OK.

122
00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,320
And I say all that to say you are making a choice here.

123
00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,400
The choice has not been made for you.

124
00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,960
You are an active participant in this choice.

125
00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:36,360
And if at any point in time you feel like the financial story doesn't work for you,

126
00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,880
you have the power to choose.

127
00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:43,520
And the power you have to choose is not just to say medicine or no medicine, but to say

128
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,520
how can I get this to work?

129
00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:47,520
Can we all say that together?

130
00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,520
Can you say after me?

131
00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,840
How can I get this to work?

132
00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,760
How do I get the books to balance?

133
00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,680
How do I get my net worth to grow?

134
00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,200
How do I make the finances work?

135
00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:02,200
See?

136
00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:03,200
See?

137
00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:04,400
We're not saying I can't make this work.

138
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:05,400
We're not panicking.

139
00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,200
We're not going and being and doing things that we shouldn't be doing.

140
00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,560
We're just asking how?

141
00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,480
How can we make this work?

142
00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,320
Remember that you chose.

143
00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:17,760
You're still choosing.

144
00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:24,120
You have the power to choose and ask powerful questions that help you make different choices.

145
00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:25,280
OK.

146
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:26,280
You can choose at any time.

147
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,800
At any time to say I'm not doing this.

148
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:29,800
And it's OK.

149
00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:30,800
You can land on your feet.

150
00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,560
You're going to be OK if you choose not to.

151
00:08:33,560 --> 00:08:38,960
And if you choose to stay, ask yourself how do I make the finances work?

152
00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,440
OK.

153
00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:46,680
The second thing I want to talk about is that part of your spending time in academia, part

154
00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:52,880
of all the stuff you're doing and why scholarship matters is that you're working to become a

155
00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,200
thought leader that people pay for their expertise.

156
00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:58,400
It's one of the things you're working towards.

157
00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,320
So it may not be explicit to you, but can I just put it out there?

158
00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,800
The reason that you, I mean, there are many reasons you do your scholarship.

159
00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,040
And I hope you do your scholarship for the love of all things knowledge.

160
00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,920
And I hope you do your scholarship because you want to advance patient care and you want

161
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:14,560
people to be better.

162
00:09:14,560 --> 00:09:16,800
You're trying to save the human race.

163
00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:17,880
These are all great things.

164
00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,520
I hope that's why you do your scholarship.

165
00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,440
And I want to let you in if you're not already clued in.

166
00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,160
The part of doing your scholarship is that you become a thought leader.

167
00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,360
People want to hear what you have to say.

168
00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,720
And so that's why, you know, sometimes it's like, oh, yeah, for promotion, I need to go

169
00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,560
give talks.

170
00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:36,560
And it's great.

171
00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:37,760
Please go give talks.

172
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,520
Have your friends try to arrange for you to come to their institutions and you can give

173
00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:42,780
talks.

174
00:09:42,780 --> 00:09:47,680
But the reason people invite you to give talks is you have something to say.

175
00:09:47,680 --> 00:09:52,160
You're a thought leader because you think about this area a lot.

176
00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,480
And so people want your opinion.

177
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:59,320
And so part of spending your time in academia is really developing yourself as a thought

178
00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,040
leader that people pay for their expertise.

179
00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,520
And so some of the work you're doing is really building that thought leadership.

180
00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,960
And I hear some people staring and saying, that's not going to put food on the table.

181
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:12,000
I get it.

182
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:17,920
And I will also add to that that everybody does not have equal access to thought leadership.

183
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:18,920
Right.

184
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,760
You may be a thought leader, you've been working in this space, but there are certain people

185
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,200
who may be called to give talks and others who are actually not.

186
00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:26,200
Right.

187
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:33,400
I'm just, you know, let's just put it out there that, yeah, the whole goal of thought,

188
00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,840
of the work that you do, the scholarship, I mean, beyond other goals is that you're

189
00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,520
becoming a thought leader that people want to pay for their expertise.

190
00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:47,240
And yes, we don't have access, equal access to being able to express our thought leadership

191
00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:48,240
in these ways.

192
00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,160
But I just need you to understand that it's one of your skills.

193
00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:57,160
You know how where it's like, wow, have you heard the story about fields, acres of diamonds?

194
00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,040
And to be honest, I'll tell you that I've heard enough about it that I feel like I know

195
00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,600
the story and I can tell the story, but I've actually never read it.

196
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,400
So now I have to challenge myself to go read the book.

197
00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:12,400
But in summary, this is a farmer who traveled the world looking for diamonds and missed

198
00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,000
the opportunity that was in his own field.

199
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,000
Right.

200
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:21,800
And so what I mean in his home, on his farm, were all these diamonds and he traveled the

201
00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:27,360
world finally gave up into and went in despair, you know, gave up.

202
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,380
And really the diamonds were right where he started from the beginning.

203
00:11:31,380 --> 00:11:37,080
And so I think in telling you that about your opportunity to grow as a thought leader is

204
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,960
just to remind you of the diamonds that exist in your experience as someone who's growing

205
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,320
as a clinician and a scientist.

206
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:49,960
OK, you are a thought leader.

207
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:56,040
And in recognizing the fact that thought leadership and opportunities to express our thought leadership

208
00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:01,240
is not equally accessible to all, you know, men versus women, people of color versus people

209
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:02,760
not of color.

210
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:08,440
It's not equally accessible, but it's also recognizing that you have the thought leadership.

211
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:13,360
You may need to position yourself differently to be able to get the most out of your thought

212
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:14,360
leadership.

213
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:15,360
OK, all right.

214
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,040
This, you know, we're getting into the offline conversation, but I just want to put that

215
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:20,040
out there.

216
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:21,640
OK, all right.

217
00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:25,920
Number three is to recognize that you have everything you need.

218
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,280
Financially, you have everything you need.

219
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:29,640
Do you have a roof over your head?

220
00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:31,840
OK, you're not living out of your car.

221
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:32,840
OK, check.

222
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,720
You have everything you need.

223
00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:35,720
You got food.

224
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:36,720
You can eat.

225
00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:38,080
Your people at home can eat.

226
00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:39,080
Great.

227
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:40,080
Got it.

228
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,040
And I know it's like you're rolling your eyes and you're like, well, yeah, is that it?

229
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,640
Like, I can meet my needs.

230
00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,560
So that's where I should be.

231
00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:48,560
That's not what I'm saying.

232
00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:55,000
What I'm saying is the importance of recognizing how much you already have.

233
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,960
You're already living above meeting your needs.

234
00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:04,720
Everything you have beyond your very basic needs are wants.

235
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:05,880
Your big house.

236
00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:07,000
It's a beautiful big house.

237
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,240
I love to come visit your beautiful big house.

238
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:11,240
It's a want.

239
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,400
Yeah, you do need shelter, but it doesn't need to be that big.

240
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,320
You do need shelter, but you know what?

241
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,120
A tent will work.

242
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,680
But you have chosen to live in a big, beautiful home because it's what you want.

243
00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:23,680
And it's OK.

244
00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:26,240
It's OK to go after what you want.

245
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,640
And this is more important than just the whole thing about meeting your basic needs.

246
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:35,360
It's OK to go after a bigger financial future for yourself than what academia can give you.

247
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,240
I said it.

248
00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:41,620
And now you have to deal with it because now you potentially could be having a conniption

249
00:13:41,620 --> 00:13:44,440
fit in your head as to, did she just say that?

250
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:50,560
I did say that.

251
00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:52,780
It's OK to have everything you need.

252
00:13:52,780 --> 00:13:53,960
You already have everything you need.

253
00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,380
You don't need any more.

254
00:13:56,380 --> 00:14:02,920
And it's OK to recognize that anything you want beyond what you need is a want.

255
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:04,800
And it is OK to go after your wants.

256
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,960
And if your want is a bigger paycheck, it's OK to go after that.

257
00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:15,780
Now recognize that there are opportunities to extract a bigger paycheck from the person

258
00:14:15,780 --> 00:14:17,480
who already pays you.

259
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:23,400
And recognize that in an employment type situation, there is little incentive to continue to pay

260
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,800
a bigger and a bigger paycheck to the employee.

261
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:32,320
And so it's recognizing that if you're going to go after what you want as far as financial

262
00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:37,600
things are concerned, as far as growing your net worth, you need to begin to think outside

263
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:43,040
the financial box of the employer-employee model.

264
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,880
It may be that you diversify your employers.

265
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,720
That's another strategy you can consider.

266
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,280
Or it may be that you diversify sources of income.

267
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:58,440
But what I'm saying is that it's OK to go after your wants, recognize the limitations

268
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:04,640
of pursuing only one source as the source of making your financial wants accessible

269
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,600
to you, and recognize the opportunity for creativity.

270
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:09,600
OK?

271
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,040
The opportunity for creativity.

272
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:13,040
OK.

273
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:19,000
Number four is to talk with people outside of medicine about how to diversify your income

274
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:20,000
streams.

275
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,280
And yet, I'm not a financial coach.

276
00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,400
I don't even really do things financial.

277
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,400
I just felt like it was important because this was a conversation that came out.

278
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:32,760
But I need you to understand that medicine is a great way to make an income.

279
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,480
And I'm so grateful that you make an income.

280
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:40,680
And even when you're not satisfied or even if you don't have pay parity, you do make

281
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,020
a lot more than some of the people around you.

282
00:15:44,020 --> 00:15:49,680
But there are people outside of medicine who don't necessarily make the kind of income

283
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:55,940
that you do that have a higher net worth than you do because they use different strategies.

284
00:15:55,940 --> 00:16:01,700
And so what I'm inviting you to do is to stop looking around at your immediate environment

285
00:16:01,700 --> 00:16:09,160
and those in academia and start to ask people who are outside of academia what their strategies

286
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,160
are in diversifying income streams.

287
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,000
And it's just thinking outside the box.

288
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,720
And it's reminding you that, hey, you're an academic and that's great.

289
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,040
I love academics and that's not your only identity.

290
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,480
Bigger than an academic, there's so much more to you.

291
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,280
And you have a wealth of resources available to you.

292
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,800
Many times in medicine, we get stuck looking at each other saying, hey, what are you doing?

293
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,120
I want to do that too.

294
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:32,120
And that's great.

295
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,040
Yeah, you're what people will call a high net worth individual.

296
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:36,040
Great.

297
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:42,560
Sometimes it's easy to talk to high net worth individuals like yourself, other physicians.

298
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:49,640
But I would say diversify your sources of information about growing financially.

299
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:56,640
And yes, we're all working and investing towards retirement, but also to consider how do you

300
00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:02,040
diversify income for right now and to get you to where you want.

301
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:06,920
Because what you want is valid, it is valuable, and you should definitely go after it.

302
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:12,480
OK, so think about talking with people outside of your immediate academic circles about strategies

303
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,440
to diversify income streams.

304
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,120
And in fact, think about joining masterminds.

305
00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:18,720
You're like, I don't have time.

306
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,080
You know, we're making choices all the time.

307
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,000
And not having time is also a choice that we make.

308
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,600
Yeah, I went and said it.

309
00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,080
Now I'm not going to pursue it.

310
00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,640
I'll have to devote a future episode to it.

311
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:31,640
OK.

312
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:38,000
So always making choices and consider making the choice of talking with experts outside

313
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:43,400
of your immediate academic environment about what it means to diversify income streams.

314
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:44,400
OK.

315
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:45,400
All right.

316
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,000
The fifth thing I want to tell you is to relax.

317
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,600
Don't let it stress you out.

318
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:55,200
The anxiety is actually causing you more trouble than is needed.

319
00:17:55,200 --> 00:18:00,580
The anxiety you have about the finances, the anxiety you have about all the stuff, it's

320
00:18:00,580 --> 00:18:02,680
internally generated.

321
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,400
Yeah.

322
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,760
And it's easier said than done.

323
00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:15,360
But I invite you to relax, relax, relax.

324
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:19,880
Because one of the things that's important to recognize about yourself as a clinician,

325
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:26,200
as a physician scientist, is that you have capacity to create income.

326
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,720
You absolutely do.

327
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:34,320
And the more anxious and worried you are about it, the less your creativity is released to

328
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,200
be able to support you doing that.

329
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,200
And so maybe this should have been number one.

330
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,080
The first thing, I mean, it's number five.

331
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,260
But it's important to learn to relax.

332
00:18:46,260 --> 00:18:47,840
You got this.

333
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,880
You've done some impossible things over the course of your life.

334
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:58,580
And becoming someone who can create income or create more income or create opportunities

335
00:18:58,580 --> 00:19:02,760
for wealth because sometimes more income is not necessarily the opportunity.

336
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:04,440
Relax.

337
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,200
You have the opportunity to do that.

338
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:08,200
And I'm excited.

339
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:09,880
I'm going to bring you a financial coach.

340
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:14,320
She's coming on the podcast a couple of weeks from now and I will alert you when that's

341
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:15,320
available.

342
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,060
But yeah, definitely just relax.

343
00:19:17,060 --> 00:19:18,480
You can do this.

344
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:19,960
There's no need to be stressed.

345
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:25,520
Remember, remember how it is where it's like sometimes the immune response is bigger than

346
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,520
the actual inciting event, right?

347
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,000
And it's a problem because it destroys the surrounding environment.

348
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:33,000
Same thing.

349
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,000
It's like relax.

350
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,740
Your anxiety is causing you pain and suffering.

351
00:19:36,740 --> 00:19:37,740
Relax about it.

352
00:19:37,740 --> 00:19:38,960
You can do this.

353
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:40,920
You can absolutely do it.

354
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:41,920
All right.

355
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,640
So how to think about financial challenges in your academic job?

356
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,560
Number one, remember that you were choosing to play the long game at any point in time.

357
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,240
You can choose to play a different game.

358
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:55,720
Number two, part of spending time in academia is to become the thought leader that people

359
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,560
pay for their expertise.

360
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,400
You think about how to position yourself as a thought leader that you are and you may

361
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,400
need to be creative.

362
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:04,400
Absolutely.

363
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:10,000
Number three, recognize that you have everything you want, everything you need, and you are

364
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,680
really just pursuing wants now.

365
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:13,680
And that's okay.

366
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,520
But you just need to recognize that you're going above and beyond and it's okay to want

367
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:18,520
what you want.

368
00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:20,520
Don't be ashamed to want what you want.

369
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:21,520
Okay.

370
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,480
And number four is talk with people outside of medicine about how to diversify income

371
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:26,480
streams.

372
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,280
Talk with people outside of academic medicine because in academic medicine it's just not

373
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:30,280
the thing we think about.

374
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,240
There are other people who think about it a lot more and there are ethical ways to do

375
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:35,240
it.

376
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,600
Please, this is not an invitation to go do some things that are unethical.

377
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,480
You did not hear that from me.

378
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:41,820
And number five, relax.

379
00:20:41,820 --> 00:20:44,880
You have the power to create wealth.

380
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,520
You have the power to create income.

381
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:53,900
And as you relax, you let the creativity come forth so that you can do it and help others

382
00:20:53,900 --> 00:20:54,900
do it too.

383
00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:55,900
All right.

384
00:20:55,900 --> 00:20:56,900
It's been a pleasure talking with you today.

385
00:20:56,900 --> 00:21:01,480
Please share this with someone else and me because I think we got to talk about it sometimes.

386
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,520
And I'm glad that I got to share some of these thoughts with you.

387
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:05,520
All right.

388
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,520
It's been a pleasure talking with you today.

389
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,920
Please join us at the next time that we meet.

390
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,080
And yeah, have a great, great time.

391
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:23,240
I look forward to talking with you again the next time.

392
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:28,600
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic

393
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:34,040
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

394
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,400
have a mentor.

395
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:41,520
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

396
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,240
Someone else needs to hear it.

397
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,320
So take a minute right now and share it.

398
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:52,760
As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

399
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:58,720
of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.