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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.

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I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is always a pleasure to be talking with you.

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Thank you for listening.

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I'm excited to talk about today's episode.

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Actually, as I was saying that, I was like, when am I not excited?

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Oh my goodness, it's so exciting to talk to you.

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So thank you for this opportunity.

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All right.

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So today I'm talking about when to let go, knowing when to let go.

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And this particular episode is triggered by a receipt I saw earlier today, and it was

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a receipt for $12, I think, and 68 cents.

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$12.68.

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And it really triggered a memory because, so just to give you background, we were at

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the airport on our way back from Thanksgiving travel, and we got on the plane, everything

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was on schedule, we pull out from the jet bridge, and then literally two minutes later,

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the pilot is bringing the plane back in.

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He's like, well, you know, we just need to check something out, which, you know, not

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a good sign when the fire truck shows up outside the plane.

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So you know, not a great thing happening.

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We all did plane, because seriously, I think what happened was that the plane was leaking

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fuel in some way.

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Anyway, it was big enough that the fire truck shows up, right?

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So we all de-planned, and we were so fortunate because what happened, and I don't know how

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they worked it out in the background, behind the scenes, but we were able to board the

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next flight.

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So they were going to wait for a new flight to come in, and then we would get that plane.

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So clearly, it was some strategy for the other people who would otherwise have boarded that

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plane.

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So we're in the place between where we, you know, our last flight, we've all de-planned,

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and now we're waiting to get on the next flight.

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And fortunately for us, there's not going to be too much of a time interval between

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our last flight and our new flight.

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So we go, I go with my daughter to go get Starbucks coffee, and she's getting decaf,

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and she wants, I forget what drink she was getting.

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So anyway, we pay, and at the time we go to pay, they say, hey, there's a 20-minute wait

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time, and I'm like, oh, we have all the time in the world.

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Anyway, we think we have all the time in the world.

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But so it begins to become obvious as time goes on that, wow, it's going to take longer

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than 20 minutes, and there are a lot of people waiting.

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So we wait until my husband calls and says, hey, we're about to board.

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Where are you?

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And so we run back, and I deposit my daughter.

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They are going to board ahead of me, and she's upset.

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She's disappointed because she really, really, really, really wanted this drink, and I really

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want to get it for her.

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So I deposit her at the gate, and I run back.

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I run back to go see if I can get the coffee, because I know that very soon our number will

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be called, and I'll be able to get the coffee.

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She'll be happy.

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It'll be great.

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And I set my timer, because I said, OK, I'm giving this five minutes, because I mean,

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our plane is boarding, right?

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I'm giving this five more minutes, and if after five minutes they don't call our names,

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then I'll know that, you know, I'll know it's not going to happen.

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So five minutes later, they actually really don't call our names, so the coffee is still

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not ready, or the drinks are still not ready, and I decide it's time to let go of this $12.68

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investment and go back.

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And I think it was two drinks.

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I forget.

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The details elude me.

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But I decide that, OK, I'm going to just abandon the $12.68, and I'm going to go catch the

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plane.

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And just as well, I was the last person to board the plane, and I didn't actually tell

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them that I ran back to go look for the coffee.

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It just, you know, it was one of those things where it was like, yeah, I was just a little

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bit delayed getting on the plane.

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But anyway, I made the plane, fortunately.

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I mean, I was going to, but I also might not have.

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What if I tripped and fell on my way rushing back with the coffee and maybe didn't get

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on the plane?

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That would have been silly.

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But anyway, so I tell that whole story because, you know, I think there is a term called sunk

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cost fallacy.

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And I think this might be a good example.

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This might be a good example of it.

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So while we were reaching for $12.68 worth of coffee, there was a plane that was waiting

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to take us home.

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And so this is Thanksgiving day travel, well, post Thanksgiving travel.

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So you know, it gets busy during post Thanksgiving travel.

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And if I had missed that plane, it would have cost at least maybe $150 for half of a flight.

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And but probably more than $150 because now I need to get on another flight and no guarantees

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that I would be able to make the flight and head all the way back.

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So for that reason, I just want to share, I want to share a couple of thoughts about

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knowing when to let go.

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Right.

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So it was an experience that is not related to medicine where it became obvious that as

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much as I really, really, really, really, really wanted to get the coffee and make my daughter

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happy, I really understood also that I had made an investment and I really want to see

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on the plane and that that investment was a bigger investment than the coffee investment.

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So when do you know that it's time to let go?

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And you know, this could refer to a project.

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It could refer to anything really with relation to work or your career or mentoring relationships.

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When do you know it's time to let go?

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So I'm going to talk about five things that are sparked by the story that I shared with

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you.

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I think the first thing is when you've lost your joy.

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So there are many things in medicine that frustrate you and make you angry and make

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you want to throw in the towel and quit.

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But there is a time, there comes a time when you really lost your joy.

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Like you just are like, this is not where I want to be.

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These are not the people I want to be working with.

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This is not where I want to be seen.

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This is not the thing that fills my cup when you've just really lost joy.

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And I think it's important if you are in a situation, you feel like you've lost joy

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to really do get help, you know, talk with, well, ideally a mentor, but maybe if that's

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not a safe space, think about mentors outside your institution.

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Definitely think about working with a coach, but definitely seek help to really understand

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why you've lost your joy.

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Have you lost your joy because, you know, it's no longer the space for you?

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Was it never really the space for you?

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I mean, there are many reasons that it is important to recognize that, wow, life is

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finite and short, you know?

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I mean, a hundred years looks like a long time, except that it's not, right?

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And for many of us, we're closer to a hundred than when we first started.

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So there's so much at stake to spend any time, any precious time doing the things that don't

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give us joy.

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And the challenge of the things that don't give us joy is many times the joylessness

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associated with the thing didn't just start.

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It's actually kind of been brewing for a while, but there were other reasons that kind of

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kept you from experiencing the fullness of the joylessness associated with this thing.

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But finally it catches up with you and you're like, you know what, I never even really got

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joy from this thing.

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And now it's even become harder, right?

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Sometimes you can keep doing something until it really becomes hard to do.

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And then you're like, well, wait a minute, why am I making this investment anyway?

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But whatever the reason, when you've lost your joy, it's important to acknowledge that

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you've lost your joy.

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Do the work to figure out what it is that made you lose your joy or that there was really

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no joy all along and you were just doing it out of obligation.

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But when you've lost your joy, it's time to let go because living joyfully is so important.

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It's so important, like in medicine for clinicians, for researchers, what we do is hard.

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It's challenging, it's difficult, and it's not always, you know, it's not always thanked,

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right?

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It's a thankless job.

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You get a grant and people may celebrate with you for two minutes and they're like, what,

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you only have one grant, right?

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So there's always this need to consistently strive so that at the end of the day, the

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motivation is solely and purely yours because the external rewards are transient fleeting

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motivations.

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So the external rewards are transient fleeting motivations, but the internal source of feeling

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like you've really contributed, that's all yours.

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But if you don't even have that, it makes it so hard.

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It makes it so hard.

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You can't really get through.

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And for that reason, it may be time to let go when you've lost your joy.

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The second time that you might consider letting go is when it's no longer serving you.

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So you may have started and it served you and this was the right thing to do and maybe

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you were joyous about it, but then it comes to a time in your career where it's no longer

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the project for you and that's okay.

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What is this idea that we're doing the same thing all of our lives?

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I mean, it's not true for anything we've ever done, right?

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You get to a place in your life where you're like, okay, I've done this experience.

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I feel like I've grown and gotten the most out of it.

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It's time to move on to the next growth challenge.

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It's time to move on to the next opportunity.

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And so sometimes you get to a place where you're like, okay, well, thank you for serving

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me and it's no longer serving me and that's okay.

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And sometimes people get upset or frustrated at you because you're like, wait a minute,

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you committed to this thing 10 years ago and you know what?

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You can uncommit.

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You can uncommit.

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You want to be upfront about it.

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You don't want people to have false expectations of your ability to continue to be involved,

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but you can get to a point in time where you're like, I no longer wish to do this.

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I uncommit and that is okay.

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But if it's no longer serving you, it's no longer serving you and to continue in it to

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some extent to deprive somebody else of the opportunity because it is an opportunity for

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some someone else.

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You've been doing it for a while.

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Now it feels like old school.

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It feels like old hat.

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You're just not even sure you want to make any investment in it.

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It's like, ah, it's not exciting for someone else.

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Oh my goodness.

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What an opportunity.

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I've absolutely wanted to do this for the longest time because you're sitting on it.

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They're not able to do it.

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And so sometimes it's a gift you give to people when you say, hey, thank you so much for this

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opportunity which has served me for the last five years.

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And now I would like to move on to the next opportunity and thank you very much.

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And it's okay to say that it's okay to recognize when something's no longer serving you and

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to move forward with it.

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Okay.

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The next thing, the next thing is when all the enthusiasm, this is number three, and

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all the enthusiasm around it comes from external sources.

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So this is quite common.

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It's quite common, a wonderful mentor, very well-meaning, wanting you to get the most

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out of your experiences.

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Oh, you should do this project because it's going to be so good for your career.

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And we're like, oh, yeah, of course.

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And everybody's like, oh my gosh, it's going to be so good for you.

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And the only enthusiasm about the project comes from everybody else saying how good

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it is for you.

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And you somehow have not been able to connect how good the project really is for you.

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And you may take on the project or you may take on the thing because you're like, well,

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it's my mentor and I really don't want them to be upset.

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You know, all these reasons, right?

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All the obligations that we feel that we have in taking on things that we actually don't

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want to do.

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There's so much of this in academia, so much of this in medicine.

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And you know, it makes it hard because you have no enthusiasm, but you fake it so that

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you can make other people happy and then you down the road are frustrated.

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And it's something that you wish you weren't doing.

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And now it feels hard to uncommit because somebody, you know, because of your feigned

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enthusiasm for the project, somebody's committed it to you and now you feel obligated.

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And again, it is okay to uncommit.

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It's okay to say, hey, this is a project that I initially thought was going to be one way

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and now it's turned out a different way.

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And I'm not sure it's a project I want to do anymore.

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And you know, people might ask you justify it.

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Why?

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You don't have to justify it.

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It's just no longer a project you want to do.

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And it's helpful to find someone you can pass it on to.

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There's always someone you can pass it on to so you don't leave people holding back.

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But it's important that if the enthusiasm around it is really from everybody else except

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you, then it's okay to say, hey, it's time to let go.

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Because it's not, I mean, the moment you recognize it, right?

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The enthusiasm was coming from other people all along.

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When you finally recognize it, when your enthusiasm to make them happy dies down, it's okay to

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say, okay, thank you and no thank you.

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The next thing is when the cost of staying with a project surpasses the cost of leaving.

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And this is the thing that's highlighted by my story where, hey, $12.68, I want that drink.

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I mean, it shouldn't, you know, it's airport coffee, right?

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So it always costs more than it's supposed to.

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So there's this sense of like, I paid for it.

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Of course I want to get it.

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I will wait until the plane door closes.

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But then, you know, as wisdom sets in, it's like, do I really want to miss that plane

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to go to a coffee that I can buy anywhere at any time?

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And that's an important consideration.

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And the thing you're letting go of allows you to reach for the thing that's bigger, right?

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Staying with what, you know, staying with the $12.68 coffee, I could have gotten the

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drink and I could have enjoyed it.

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Or, you know, my daughter, well, actually she wouldn't have enjoyed it because she was

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already, she would already be on her way without me.

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But even let's say I was drinking it, you know, say I'm going to enjoy it because I

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spent this money and I enjoy it.

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And then, you know, there'll always be another coffee.

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There'll always be another coffee house.

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You know, Starbucks is everywhere.

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It's ubiquitous.

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But getting on a plane, a direct flight on an early Thanksgiving, post Thanksgiving morning?

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Hmm.

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There is not going to be another flight like that, likely.

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I'd likely would have to fly standby.

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I'm not sure that I would get a flight out that day or that I wouldn't have to pay extra

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to get a flight out.

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And it probably would be a flight that would be in high demand.

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So extra expensive.

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This is sometimes the cost of staying with a project actually is costlier than the cost

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of leaving it.

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But what's challenging for us sometimes is that we are so eager to please that we miss

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this cost.

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We miss the cost, the opportunity cost of staying with something that's not working

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for the benefit, potential benefit of leaving for something that's greater and really likely

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to advance us in a way that's much, much bigger.

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And then we miss an opportunity.

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We miss an opportunity that's rare, that's bigger, that's less common, less ubiquitous.

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And it's important to recognize that there are some opportunities that will always come

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again.

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They will always come again.

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But some opportunities that don't always come again.

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And this comes around when people have a once in a, I mean, actually there's no such thing

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as a once in a lifetime opportunity.

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But there definitely are unique opportunities that come your way that make sense to go with.

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It makes sense to leave the things you know that you can always come back to if you choose

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to go for the things that are unique and different and may help you grow in a different way.

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And so you want to let go when the cost of staying with whatever it is you're struggling

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to stay with surpasses the cost of leaving.

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But in order to even recognize that, you've got to be very clear about what's bigger, what's

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better, what's most important.

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I was very clear that I needed to be on that plane with my family.

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I was very clear that I wanted to get back from my Thanksgiving trip in a reasonable

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timeframe.

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I was really clear that as much as I wanted the coffee, I wanted something that was bigger

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than the coffee.

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And so it's important to clarify that and working with a coach can help you do that.

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Number five is when letting go feels like losing your identity, it definitely probably

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is time to let go.

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One of the things that we do as human beings and this is fine, it just is, is that many

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times what we do gets wrapped up in our identity and there's this sense that we are, we are

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that thing.

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I am a physician.

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I am a clinician.

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I am whatever it is, but whatever your I am statement is.

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And whenever we define ourselves by what we do, it's really, it's not even really honest.

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I'm a physician, yes, and I'm a daughter and I'm a friend and there's so many ands to us.

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And so defining ourselves by one thing or getting so wrapped up in one identity that

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letting go of something associated with that identity feels like losing your identity.

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It's a sign of problems.

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It's a sign that you should get help.

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And so if I do that, if I let go of this project, then nobody will know me as XYZ.

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The reality is that you can always be reborn.

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You can always do something new.

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You can always pivot.

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You can always change.

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You can always transform and you don't lose the thing that you've invested in.

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The reality is that everything you've ever invested in is already still there waiting

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for you.

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Like it's, you know, every gift you've received from the training for them from the experience

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is still with you.

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It's not going anywhere.

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You may say goodbye to this opportunity, but you are not saying goodbye to all the gifts

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you've already received.

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They are with you forever.

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And so when you feel like what you're doing is so wrapped up in your identity, it is the

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sign that it's time to let go so that you can free yourself to discover who you are

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beyond that finite identity, beyond that small, small kind of rendering of your life experience.

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There are so much more to you before you came to that identity.

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Why do you want to settle for that identity as the identity that defines you?

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And so don't let the work you do be wrapped up in your identity.

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But if it turns out that it is, you feel like if I let go of this, I'll never know who I

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am.

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It is definitely time to let go because that thing is distracting you from discovering

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your true potential, your true magnitude relative to that particular identity.

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So definitely let go when letting go feels like losing your identity and no lie, it's

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painful and frustrating and wow, it's hard, but really necessary, really important.

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You will always look back and appreciate the fact that you took that leap.

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So when do you know it's time to let go?

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When you've lost your joy?

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When whatever it is you're letting go of is no longer serving you or whatever it is that

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you should let go of is no longer serving you?

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When all the enthusiasm around it is coming from people other than you?

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When the cost of staying with a project surpasses the cost of leaving?

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And number five, when letting go feels like losing your identity.

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Yeah, so those are five things to think about to help you know when it's time to let go.

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I want to invite you to a webinar that we're doing on December 20th.

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It's called When You Have No Research Mentor because I recognize that many people are challenged

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in that they really want to lead research, but they don't have mentors.

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They don't have access to mentors or they don't feel like they do.

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Even though I always argue that you always have mentors, it's just what you're looking

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for prevents you from seeing what you already have.

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But yeah, that's happening at noon on December 20th.

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Sign up on our website, guidecoach.com.

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It's also on the Clinician Researcher podcast.

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That's clinicianresearcherpodcast.com.

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Share with a friend.

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There's always someone who needs a little bit more.

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And if you can do one good deed, definitely share with a friend.

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It's been a pleasure talking with you today.

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Thank you so much for tuning in.

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I look forward to talking with you again the next time.

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Take care.

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Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic

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clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

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have a mentor.

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If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

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Someone else needs to hear it.

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So take a minute right now and share it.

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As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

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of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.