Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills
to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.
When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find
that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research
program.
Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.
However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.
For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians
the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.
Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.
I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is always a pleasure to be talking with you.
Thank you for listening.
I'm excited to talk about today's episode.
Actually, as I was saying that, I was like, when am I not excited?
Oh my goodness, it's so exciting to talk to you.
So thank you for this opportunity.
All right.
So today I'm talking about when to let go, knowing when to let go.
And this particular episode is triggered by a receipt I saw earlier today, and it was
a receipt for $12, I think, and 68 cents.
$12.68.
And it really triggered a memory because, so just to give you background, we were at
the airport on our way back from Thanksgiving travel, and we got on the plane, everything
was on schedule, we pull out from the jet bridge, and then literally two minutes later,
the pilot is bringing the plane back in.
He's like, well, you know, we just need to check something out, which, you know, not
a good sign when the fire truck shows up outside the plane.
So you know, not a great thing happening.
We all did plane, because seriously, I think what happened was that the plane was leaking
fuel in some way.
Anyway, it was big enough that the fire truck shows up, right?
So we all de-planned, and we were so fortunate because what happened, and I don't know how
they worked it out in the background, behind the scenes, but we were able to board the
next flight.
So they were going to wait for a new flight to come in, and then we would get that plane.
So clearly, it was some strategy for the other people who would otherwise have boarded that
plane.
So we're in the place between where we, you know, our last flight, we've all de-planned,
and now we're waiting to get on the next flight.
And fortunately for us, there's not going to be too much of a time interval between
our last flight and our new flight.
So we go, I go with my daughter to go get Starbucks coffee, and she's getting decaf,
and she wants, I forget what drink she was getting.
So anyway, we pay, and at the time we go to pay, they say, hey, there's a 20-minute wait
time, and I'm like, oh, we have all the time in the world.
Anyway, we think we have all the time in the world.
But so it begins to become obvious as time goes on that, wow, it's going to take longer
than 20 minutes, and there are a lot of people waiting.
So we wait until my husband calls and says, hey, we're about to board.
Where are you?
And so we run back, and I deposit my daughter.
They are going to board ahead of me, and she's upset.
She's disappointed because she really, really, really, really wanted this drink, and I really
want to get it for her.
So I deposit her at the gate, and I run back.
I run back to go see if I can get the coffee, because I know that very soon our number will
be called, and I'll be able to get the coffee.
She'll be happy.
It'll be great.
And I set my timer, because I said, OK, I'm giving this five minutes, because I mean,
our plane is boarding, right?
I'm giving this five more minutes, and if after five minutes they don't call our names,
then I'll know that, you know, I'll know it's not going to happen.
So five minutes later, they actually really don't call our names, so the coffee is still
not ready, or the drinks are still not ready, and I decide it's time to let go of this $12.68
investment and go back.
And I think it was two drinks.
I forget.
The details elude me.
But I decide that, OK, I'm going to just abandon the $12.68, and I'm going to go catch the
plane.
And just as well, I was the last person to board the plane, and I didn't actually tell
them that I ran back to go look for the coffee.
It just, you know, it was one of those things where it was like, yeah, I was just a little
bit delayed getting on the plane.
But anyway, I made the plane, fortunately.
I mean, I was going to, but I also might not have.
What if I tripped and fell on my way rushing back with the coffee and maybe didn't get
on the plane?
That would have been silly.
But anyway, so I tell that whole story because, you know, I think there is a term called sunk
cost fallacy.
And I think this might be a good example.
This might be a good example of it.
So while we were reaching for $12.68 worth of coffee, there was a plane that was waiting
to take us home.
And so this is Thanksgiving day travel, well, post Thanksgiving travel.
So you know, it gets busy during post Thanksgiving travel.
And if I had missed that plane, it would have cost at least maybe $150 for half of a flight.
And but probably more than $150 because now I need to get on another flight and no guarantees
that I would be able to make the flight and head all the way back.
So for that reason, I just want to share, I want to share a couple of thoughts about
knowing when to let go.
Right.
So it was an experience that is not related to medicine where it became obvious that as
much as I really, really, really, really, really wanted to get the coffee and make my daughter
happy, I really understood also that I had made an investment and I really want to see
on the plane and that that investment was a bigger investment than the coffee investment.
So when do you know that it's time to let go?
And you know, this could refer to a project.
It could refer to anything really with relation to work or your career or mentoring relationships.
When do you know it's time to let go?
So I'm going to talk about five things that are sparked by the story that I shared with
you.
I think the first thing is when you've lost your joy.
So there are many things in medicine that frustrate you and make you angry and make
you want to throw in the towel and quit.
But there is a time, there comes a time when you really lost your joy.
Like you just are like, this is not where I want to be.
These are not the people I want to be working with.
This is not where I want to be seen.
This is not the thing that fills my cup when you've just really lost joy.
And I think it's important if you are in a situation, you feel like you've lost joy
to really do get help, you know, talk with, well, ideally a mentor, but maybe if that's
not a safe space, think about mentors outside your institution.
Definitely think about working with a coach, but definitely seek help to really understand
why you've lost your joy.
Have you lost your joy because, you know, it's no longer the space for you?
Was it never really the space for you?
I mean, there are many reasons that it is important to recognize that, wow, life is
finite and short, you know?
I mean, a hundred years looks like a long time, except that it's not, right?
And for many of us, we're closer to a hundred than when we first started.
So there's so much at stake to spend any time, any precious time doing the things that don't
give us joy.
And the challenge of the things that don't give us joy is many times the joylessness
associated with the thing didn't just start.
It's actually kind of been brewing for a while, but there were other reasons that kind of
kept you from experiencing the fullness of the joylessness associated with this thing.
But finally it catches up with you and you're like, you know what, I never even really got
joy from this thing.
And now it's even become harder, right?
Sometimes you can keep doing something until it really becomes hard to do.
And then you're like, well, wait a minute, why am I making this investment anyway?
But whatever the reason, when you've lost your joy, it's important to acknowledge that
you've lost your joy.
Do the work to figure out what it is that made you lose your joy or that there was really
no joy all along and you were just doing it out of obligation.
But when you've lost your joy, it's time to let go because living joyfully is so important.
It's so important, like in medicine for clinicians, for researchers, what we do is hard.
It's challenging, it's difficult, and it's not always, you know, it's not always thanked,
right?
It's a thankless job.
You get a grant and people may celebrate with you for two minutes and they're like, what,
you only have one grant, right?
So there's always this need to consistently strive so that at the end of the day, the
motivation is solely and purely yours because the external rewards are transient fleeting
motivations.
So the external rewards are transient fleeting motivations, but the internal source of feeling
like you've really contributed, that's all yours.
But if you don't even have that, it makes it so hard.
It makes it so hard.
You can't really get through.
And for that reason, it may be time to let go when you've lost your joy.
The second time that you might consider letting go is when it's no longer serving you.
So you may have started and it served you and this was the right thing to do and maybe
you were joyous about it, but then it comes to a time in your career where it's no longer
the project for you and that's okay.
What is this idea that we're doing the same thing all of our lives?
I mean, it's not true for anything we've ever done, right?
You get to a place in your life where you're like, okay, I've done this experience.
I feel like I've grown and gotten the most out of it.
It's time to move on to the next growth challenge.
It's time to move on to the next opportunity.
And so sometimes you get to a place where you're like, okay, well, thank you for serving
me and it's no longer serving me and that's okay.
And sometimes people get upset or frustrated at you because you're like, wait a minute,
you committed to this thing 10 years ago and you know what?
You can uncommit.
You want to be upfront about it.
You don't want people to have false expectations of your ability to continue to be involved,
but you can get to a point in time where you're like, I no longer wish to do this.
I uncommit and that is okay.
But if it's no longer serving you, it's no longer serving you and to continue in it to
some extent to deprive somebody else of the opportunity because it is an opportunity for
some someone else.
You've been doing it for a while.
Now it feels like old school.
It feels like old hat.
You're just not even sure you want to make any investment in it.
It's like, ah, it's not exciting for someone else.
Oh my goodness.
What an opportunity.
I've absolutely wanted to do this for the longest time because you're sitting on it.
They're not able to do it.
And so sometimes it's a gift you give to people when you say, hey, thank you so much for this
opportunity which has served me for the last five years.
And now I would like to move on to the next opportunity and thank you very much.
And it's okay to say that it's okay to recognize when something's no longer serving you and
to move forward with it.
Okay.
The next thing, the next thing is when all the enthusiasm, this is number three, and
all the enthusiasm around it comes from external sources.
So this is quite common.
It's quite common, a wonderful mentor, very well-meaning, wanting you to get the most
out of your experiences.
Oh, you should do this project because it's going to be so good for your career.
And we're like, oh, yeah, of course.
And everybody's like, oh my gosh, it's going to be so good for you.
And the only enthusiasm about the project comes from everybody else saying how good
it is for you.
And you somehow have not been able to connect how good the project really is for you.
And you may take on the project or you may take on the thing because you're like, well,
it's my mentor and I really don't want them to be upset.
You know, all these reasons, right?
All the obligations that we feel that we have in taking on things that we actually don't
want to do.
There's so much of this in academia, so much of this in medicine.
And you know, it makes it hard because you have no enthusiasm, but you fake it so that
you can make other people happy and then you down the road are frustrated.
And it's something that you wish you weren't doing.
And now it feels hard to uncommit because somebody, you know, because of your feigned
enthusiasm for the project, somebody's committed it to you and now you feel obligated.
And again, it is okay to uncommit.
It's okay to say, hey, this is a project that I initially thought was going to be one way
and now it's turned out a different way.
And I'm not sure it's a project I want to do anymore.
And you know, people might ask you justify it.
Why?
You don't have to justify it.
It's just no longer a project you want to do.
And it's helpful to find someone you can pass it on to.
There's always someone you can pass it on to so you don't leave people holding back.
But it's important that if the enthusiasm around it is really from everybody else except
you, then it's okay to say, hey, it's time to let go.
Because it's not, I mean, the moment you recognize it, right?
The enthusiasm was coming from other people all along.
When you finally recognize it, when your enthusiasm to make them happy dies down, it's okay to
say, okay, thank you and no thank you.
The next thing is when the cost of staying with a project surpasses the cost of leaving.
And this is the thing that's highlighted by my story where, hey, $12.68, I want that drink.
I mean, it shouldn't, you know, it's airport coffee, right?
So it always costs more than it's supposed to.
So there's this sense of like, I paid for it.
Of course I want to get it.
I will wait until the plane door closes.
But then, you know, as wisdom sets in, it's like, do I really want to miss that plane
to go to a coffee that I can buy anywhere at any time?
And that's an important consideration.
And the thing you're letting go of allows you to reach for the thing that's bigger, right?
Staying with what, you know, staying with the $12.68 coffee, I could have gotten the
drink and I could have enjoyed it.
Or, you know, my daughter, well, actually she wouldn't have enjoyed it because she was
already, she would already be on her way without me.
But even let's say I was drinking it, you know, say I'm going to enjoy it because I
spent this money and I enjoy it.
And then, you know, there'll always be another coffee.
There'll always be another coffee house.
You know, Starbucks is everywhere.
It's ubiquitous.
But getting on a plane, a direct flight on an early Thanksgiving, post Thanksgiving morning?
Hmm.
There is not going to be another flight like that, likely.
I'd likely would have to fly standby.
I'm not sure that I would get a flight out that day or that I wouldn't have to pay extra
to get a flight out.
And it probably would be a flight that would be in high demand.
So extra expensive.
This is sometimes the cost of staying with a project actually is costlier than the cost
of leaving it.
But what's challenging for us sometimes is that we are so eager to please that we miss
this cost.
We miss the cost, the opportunity cost of staying with something that's not working
for the benefit, potential benefit of leaving for something that's greater and really likely
to advance us in a way that's much, much bigger.
And then we miss an opportunity.
We miss an opportunity that's rare, that's bigger, that's less common, less ubiquitous.
And it's important to recognize that there are some opportunities that will always come
again.
They will always come again.
But some opportunities that don't always come again.
And this comes around when people have a once in a, I mean, actually there's no such thing
as a once in a lifetime opportunity.
But there definitely are unique opportunities that come your way that make sense to go with.
It makes sense to leave the things you know that you can always come back to if you choose
to go for the things that are unique and different and may help you grow in a different way.
And so you want to let go when the cost of staying with whatever it is you're struggling
to stay with surpasses the cost of leaving.
But in order to even recognize that, you've got to be very clear about what's bigger, what's
better, what's most important.
I was very clear that I needed to be on that plane with my family.
I was very clear that I wanted to get back from my Thanksgiving trip in a reasonable
timeframe.
I was really clear that as much as I wanted the coffee, I wanted something that was bigger
than the coffee.
And so it's important to clarify that and working with a coach can help you do that.
Number five is when letting go feels like losing your identity, it definitely probably
is time to let go.
One of the things that we do as human beings and this is fine, it just is, is that many
times what we do gets wrapped up in our identity and there's this sense that we are, we are
that thing.
I am a physician.
I am a clinician.
I am whatever it is, but whatever your I am statement is.
And whenever we define ourselves by what we do, it's really, it's not even really honest.
I'm a physician, yes, and I'm a daughter and I'm a friend and there's so many ands to us.
And so defining ourselves by one thing or getting so wrapped up in one identity that
letting go of something associated with that identity feels like losing your identity.
It's a sign of problems.
It's a sign that you should get help.
And so if I do that, if I let go of this project, then nobody will know me as XYZ.
The reality is that you can always be reborn.
You can always do something new.
You can always pivot.
You can always change.
You can always transform and you don't lose the thing that you've invested in.
The reality is that everything you've ever invested in is already still there waiting
for you.
Like it's, you know, every gift you've received from the training for them from the experience
is still with you.
It's not going anywhere.
You may say goodbye to this opportunity, but you are not saying goodbye to all the gifts
you've already received.
They are with you forever.
And so when you feel like what you're doing is so wrapped up in your identity, it is the
sign that it's time to let go so that you can free yourself to discover who you are
beyond that finite identity, beyond that small, small kind of rendering of your life experience.
There are so much more to you before you came to that identity.
Why do you want to settle for that identity as the identity that defines you?
And so don't let the work you do be wrapped up in your identity.
But if it turns out that it is, you feel like if I let go of this, I'll never know who I
am.
It is definitely time to let go because that thing is distracting you from discovering
your true potential, your true magnitude relative to that particular identity.
So definitely let go when letting go feels like losing your identity and no lie, it's
painful and frustrating and wow, it's hard, but really necessary, really important.
You will always look back and appreciate the fact that you took that leap.
So when do you know it's time to let go?
When you've lost your joy?
When whatever it is you're letting go of is no longer serving you or whatever it is that
you should let go of is no longer serving you?
When all the enthusiasm around it is coming from people other than you?
When the cost of staying with a project surpasses the cost of leaving?
And number five, when letting go feels like losing your identity.
Yeah, so those are five things to think about to help you know when it's time to let go.
I want to invite you to a webinar that we're doing on December 20th.
It's called When You Have No Research Mentor because I recognize that many people are challenged
in that they really want to lead research, but they don't have mentors.
They don't have access to mentors or they don't feel like they do.
Even though I always argue that you always have mentors, it's just what you're looking
for prevents you from seeing what you already have.
But yeah, that's happening at noon on December 20th.
Sign up on our website, guidecoach.com.
It's also on the Clinician Researcher podcast.
That's clinicianresearcherpodcast.com.
Share with a friend.
There's always someone who needs a little bit more.
And if you can do one good deed, definitely share with a friend.
It's been a pleasure talking with you today.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
I look forward to talking with you again the next time.
Take care.
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic
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have a mentor.
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