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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.

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I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and I'm super excited to be talking with you today, as I

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am always.

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And today I'm talking about making the most of your annual meeting.

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I remember my first annual meeting for the American Society of Hematology.

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I first attended as a fellow in either 2010 or 2011.

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And I remember that the reason I wanted to go was because, wow, I was going to learn

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so much Hematology.

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It was going to be so awesome.

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I was so excited.

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And that first meeting was in Orlando, Florida.

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And I will tell you that things were not exactly as I expected them to be.

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So this was a meeting in Orlando in December.

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So I expected I was going to go to Orlando in December, and it was going to be super

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warm and amazing.

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And it was incredibly cold that year.

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So there was no snow, but it might as well have been snowing.

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It was that cold.

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I was so disappointed.

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And, OK, in retrospect, maybe it wasn't that cold, but I was just so unprepared for Orlando

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in December that I was so, so disappointed.

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So I was disappointed by the weather.

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And I was also disappointed by the meeting too, because, oh my goodness, it was huge.

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It's so big.

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There were so many people, and there were so many events happening simultaneously.

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It was like, well, which one am I going to go to?

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And I can't make all these sessions.

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It was overwhelming.

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It was overwhelming.

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And I don't know about you, but to be honest, I still find meetings kind of overwhelming.

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Over time, I've been able to kind of curate my experience, but they are still big and

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overwhelming.

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You know, over time, I've been able to attend meetings that are much, much smaller than

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our animal meeting, the American Society of Hematology.

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It's a big meeting.

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It's got over 20,000 people and growing that attend the meetings every year.

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And so it's a big enough meeting now that there are only a couple of sites across the

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country that we can have these meetings.

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And so it's a predictable group of four, actually five.

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The rotation is around, I think, five major convention sites.

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And again, it's in December.

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So we stay away from the states in which snow could be a problem for flights and things

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like that.

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So anyway, the American Society of Hematology meeting is huge.

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It's happening in December.

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I'm excited to be going and to be moderating a session or two.

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And so I wanted to share some insights about how to make the most of your animal meeting

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and to not be overwhelmed because it can be pretty overwhelming.

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And so these are just my thoughts.

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I would be excited to hear about your thoughts.

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So definitely shoot me a voicemail through the podcast website or send me a DM so that

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I can get your insights as well.

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So the first thing I want to share is that you should plan to go.

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I know that doesn't sound very innovative or original, but you really should plan to

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go.

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And I say that because you know what?

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There are so many meetings that we go to in academia.

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And absolutely, if you don't have three or four or five meetings that you're going to

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or that you could potentially go to during the year, then maybe you're not at an academic

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institution or maybe you are.

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But there are always meetings to go to.

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And so you could choose not to go.

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And there are many reasons to not go to meetings.

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But I think it's important to go to your annual meeting.

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And sometimes people will say, well, I'm not presenting, therefore I'm not going.

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And I would say that you should go even if you're not presenting.

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You should find a way to present something or find something to do there.

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But the most important thing at the annual meeting is not always the presentation that

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you're giving.

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So definitely present, but don't say that because you don't have anything to present,

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you're not going.

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So have a plan to go.

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And sometimes the reason it's important to have something that you're presenting before

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you go is because sometimes you won't find funding or people are not going to support

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you to go if you're not presenting, especially when you're early career or maybe still in

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training.

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If you're presenting, then someone can say, OK, yeah, we're now going to release this

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pot of money so that you can go present this particularly abstract.

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So whatever it helps for you to do so that you can go, please do it.

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But really have a plan to go.

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And as you grow in your career, as you have other sources of funding, perhaps maybe your

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annual faculty development fund, whatever that is, you should go anyway, even if you

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don't have something to present because meetings offer so much more to you than just an opportunity

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to present your research.

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So definitely plan to go.

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That's number one.

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Number two is have a plan.

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So plan to go and then have a plan for your meeting.

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And by have a plan, what do I mean?

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There are so many opportunities at your annual meeting, even if it's a small meeting.

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And so I'm fortunate in that I am a hematologist.

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And so my major meeting is the American Society of Hematology.

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But I'm also an aphoresis doc.

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I do research in aphoresis.

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And so I attend the American Society for Aphoresis Animal Meeting.

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And the American Society for Aphoresis Animal Meeting is a great meeting compared to the

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American Society of Hematology.

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It's so much smaller.

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And there are concurrent sessions, but not too many.

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And so it's a really great mix.

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So definitely plan to go and then have a plan based on the kind of meeting you're going

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to be at.

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So perhaps you have a huge meeting like I have at the American Society of Hematology.

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And it's going to be so much going on and so many opportunities to meet with different

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reps or different reps of different industries, things like that.

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But definitely sit down and create a plan.

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Have a plan.

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What do you want to get out of your meeting?

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And in your plan, think about, OK, if you're going to present a poster or you're presenting

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an oral abstract, well, you definitely want to make plans to be there at the right time.

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Make sure you know about all information related to being a speaker, how to make sure you're

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uploading your talk in due time.

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So have a plan for your speaking presentation, whatever other presentation you have.

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But also have a plan for who you want to connect with at this meeting, who are old friends

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that you want to connect with, who are new friends that you need to meet, who are speakers

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that are particularly interesting that you want to connect with, who are new collaborators

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that you possibly might want to connect with.

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So have a plan.

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Have a plan for your meeting.

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You know, honestly, when I had young children at home below the age of five, sometimes my

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plan was to go to the meeting and sleep.

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And so all the events people were talking about that started at 8 p.m., 9 p.m. was like,

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I'm so sorry.

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I'm here to catch up on sleep.

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And so I'm going to do the rest of the meeting during the day, but this 9 p.m. event, I'm

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not going to be part of.

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And that's OK.

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I'm going to have a season of my life.

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And that was what I chose to do.

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And so having a plan allowed me not to on the spot trying to be making decisions about whether

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I attend a 9 p.m. event or not.

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I was just not going to do it because part of my plan was catching up on sleep.

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Yes.

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So just have a plan.

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And there's different seasons of your life.

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And sometimes you go to meetings to do different things.

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OK, so have a plan.

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Number three is create a schedule.

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And invariably for me, as we're coming up to our annual meeting, I'll get emails from

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people requesting times to meet and they'll say, oh, can I meet with you on Saturday at

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7 p.m.?

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And what's interesting is that there are always going to be things happening or happening

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at once.

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And I just I just recall that I scheduled something that's happening that's happening

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and coinciding with something else.

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So anyway, what I'm saying is that there are always events every night.

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Right.

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So our annual meeting is a 40 meeting.

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It's Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday.

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And it's four night meeting.

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And so there are always going to be events happening, especially during the weekend nights.

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And so when people are like, oh, can you meet with me on this day or can you meet with me

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on this day?

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I'm like, I haven't made my plan yet.

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I can't tell you yet.

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I have you know, I need to sit down and prioritize.

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But you definitely want to create a schedule because there will definitely be conflicts.

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There'll be different things that you have to choose one over another and it will be

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OK.

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And there'll be some days that you'll say, you know what, I'm just not going to do anything

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this evening.

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I'm OK, too.

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But definitely create a schedule so that you are in control of your annual meeting experience.

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Now, the biggest benefit of creating a schedule is your ability to decide not to go with the

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schedule.

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Right.

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So the planning is the key, not necessarily the actual plan.

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The fact that you work and figure out all the things that are most important to you

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is actually more relevant than the actual plan that you make because you have a schedule.

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You want you want to have you reserve the right to change your schedule if some other

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opportunity becomes more interesting that you are able to go on, they are able to take

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advantage of.

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So you definitely want to have a schedule, but you want to hold your schedule lightly.

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You want to be free to change things on the schedule if it makes sense for you.

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So definitely create a schedule knowing that you are the boss of the schedule and the schedule

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is not the boss of you.

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OK.

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Number four is that you should meet old friends.

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Oh, one of the most amazing things for me is to go to meetings and meet people that

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I have not seen in years.

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Even people I saw the last year, there's some people you don't talk to except at the

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annual meeting.

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And it is so awesome just to make those connections and to reconnect.

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And one of the things it's so I mean, it's just awesome to meet your friends no matter

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where where you find them.

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And especially at the annual meeting.

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But also it reminds you of how fast your network is.

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You have got a vast network.

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Can I just say it again?

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You've got a vast network.

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You went to medical school.

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If your medical school was and mine was not even a huge medical school, I had at least

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like 100 classmates.

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I think it was 100 classmates.

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But you know, you know, 100 people and you knew them well because you were in different

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small groups with them.

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You were in different big classes with them.

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You know, 100 people.

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And then you go to residency.

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And for me, I was an internist.

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I did an internal medicine residency that that was 40 people in my class.

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And that's not counting the class below and the class above.

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So if we had 40 each year of the three year residency, that's 120 people that I was connected

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with in some way, shape or form.

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Fellowship was a much smaller group, but it was still four of us per class.

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And that's 12 people that you really got to know over the course of your fellowship.

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And then that's not even counting the faculty you interacted with, the staff that you interacted

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with.

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It was a vast network.

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And meeting old friends reminds you of the vastness of your network and the amazingness

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of your network.

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So powerful, so important, so critical that you reconnect.

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And okay, you've had a couple of hundred people that you've met over the course of your training

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or your career.

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And it doesn't mean that you know all of them well.

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But even when you recognize someone just even like as someone you haven't connected with

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in a while, there's still a value in that connection, you know, especially when you

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meet at an annual meeting where there's so many people you don't know.

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The people you do know, you are able to connect with in a special way and it can help you

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rekindle old relationships.

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It can help you establish new collaborations, definitely helps you catch up to people.

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And it is a really great way of just reconnecting with your network.

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Another thing it does, and that's number five, is it helps you make new friends.

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So you make new friends and you know there are different strategies for networking at

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meetings.

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My favorite strategy is just meet the friend of the friend.

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And so it's easier because it's already someone you know and have a connection with and they're

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with someone else that they'll point out, they'll turn around and say, well, have you

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met?

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And if they don't, then you'll say, oh, who's this with you?

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And they can introduce you.

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And that feels like a more organic and more laid back, chill and natural way to expand

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your network, the friend of a friend, right?

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It's the connection of a connection, which is so helpful to do and so much easier than

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the cold calling that you have to do when you go introduce yourself to someone and say,

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well, I am this person from this institution, right?

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You still do that at poster sessions where you meet presenters and you ask questions.

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But the connection is different when somebody you already know connects you to somebody

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else.

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There's already kind of an established, a shared bond, a shared commonality that you're

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able to exploit that allows you then to, every time you meet this new person again, trace

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the connection back to a common mutual friend.

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And so I love the opportunity to meet old friends, especially because it also gives

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me an opportunity to make new ones that are connected to these old friends.

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And so meetings are an opportunity to expand your network.

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And you can do it in a way that's organic, feels natural, even to the most introverted

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of introverts.

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So definitely make new friends.

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And that's number five.

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Number six.

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So I'm going to say up until now, I have not said anything about the actual meeting or

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learning anything.

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And I will tell you that I used to think that going to a meeting was about learning things.

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And it still is.

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I'm not taking away the learning aspect of it.

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But the connections actually may be more important than the learning of the new things.

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Because to be honest, you can learn new things at any time.

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But an actual in-person event, and yes, please opt for the in-person option if you can, those

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are just so much more electric and amazing.

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And so definitely, definitely exploit the opportunities to meet with people in person.

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But then think also about what opportunities the annual meeting brings as a place of innovative,

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cutting edge things that are evolving and that are changing in your field.

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And so flip through the abstract book from beginning to end and find things that are

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exciting and interesting and star them to go look at them.

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And it may be that you are able to attend the talk or you are able to go to the poster

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session and connect with the authors specifically.

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But even if you're not, flipping through the abstract book allows you to just get a good

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sense of everything.

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And maybe it's not an abstract book anymore.

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Maybe it's an online resource, whatever it is.

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Make sure you go through and just get a sense of what projects are being done, what is on

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the cutting edge of research in your field.

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But also it helps you think about strategies that other people are using.

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And you're thinking, oh, this is interesting.

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They did this in this rare disease.

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How can I apply it to my rare disease?

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And so it's also an opportunity to really think strategically about how people are doing

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their science.

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Now, you're not there to copy anybody's science, or at least I hope you're not.

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But it's really an opportunity to think creatively about your own work.

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Because again, a lot of innovation and originality is not really totally innovative.

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It's really applying something that's been applied elsewhere into a new field.

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And so that's one thing that as you review and see what work other people are doing,

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it helps you think about, okay, this is interesting.

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They did this kind of study in this area.

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How can I apply it to my area, my field of study?

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So definitely look through the abstract book because it helps you figure out what lectures

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you do want to attend, and it also helps you figure out, well, even if you don't attend

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the lectures, how can you kind of benefit from what people are already doing or what

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people have already presented?

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All right.

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Number seven is attend lectures strategically.

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When I first started attending meetings, I was trying to get to as many lectures as I

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could.

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And of course, I was frustrated because I didn't make it to most of them.

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And then I would be on my way to one meeting and I would run into somebody else who was

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going elsewhere and I really wanted to hang with this person for at least a little bit.

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So I was like, okay, I'll ditch this lecture.

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So it was just, I didn't have a good plan.

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But I also recognized that there were more lectures to attend than I was going to have

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time to attend.

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And so you want to attend lectures strategically.

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You do want to make the most out of the CME, you know, the CME abundance that you're experiencing

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as part of being at the meeting, but you don't have to go to lectures from morning till night.

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Don't do that.

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Attend lectures strategically.

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Think about as you've gone through the abstract book, what are the lectures that you really,

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really want to be at?

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Or what are the education sessions that are really going to be most helpful to you?

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Or what are the abstract sessions that you really want to go and really sit and think

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or hear in detail what their methodology was, because these are some of those methodologies

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that you may be, you know, applying to your own research.

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So you want to be strategic.

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You don't want to go to just everything.

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And you don't want to skimp out on any, on any lectures at all.

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I've definitely done both extremes.

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I've tried to go to too many.

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And then sometimes I haven't gone to enough.

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I remember one meeting at the end of it, I looked and I was like, wait a minute, what,

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which, which lectures can I claim CME credit for?

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And I recognized that I had barely gone to a single lecture that I could claim CME credit

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for.

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Because what's interesting is that while there are many lectures and many opportunities to

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listen to speakers present, not all of them will give you CME.

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And it's okay.

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I hope that the annual meeting is not your primary strategy for getting CME.

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Please make CME getting part of your weekly strategy.

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Go to your weekly conferences that are CME conferences and definitely just build that

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over time.

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If you need to catch up on CME, sure, your annual conference may be the way to do it.

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But for the most part, recognize that you're going to go to some lectures or some talks

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that are not CME and it's okay, because you're not there necessarily for the CME, which you

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can get in different places, but you're really there to gain some insight and maybe even

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speak to the speaker.

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And those are things that that are helpful.

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So you want to attend lectures, but you want to do it strategically.

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You don't necessarily want to make the whole meeting about attending lectures.

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All right.

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So those are seven ways to make the most of your annual meeting.

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I said number one is please have a plan to go figure out a way to make it there.

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Number two, have a plan for the meeting and decide what you really want to get out of

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the meeting.

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Number three, create a schedule, knowing that there will be conflicts and it will be okay.

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Before you want to meet old friends because it's so awesome to meet old friends and through

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your old friends you want to do number five, which is make new friends.

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Number six, you want to make sure you go through the abstract book so that you know what are

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the big things that are being presented this year.

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And you also want to attend lectures strategically.

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Now I'm just reminded that as part of attending lectures strategically, one advice I've been

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given in the past is to make sure to attend all the plenary talks.

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I have mixed feelings about that because as a hematologist I am not a malignant hematologist.

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In some years a lot of the talks are all focused on malignant hematology and sometimes I think

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I don't want to really go to a malignant hematology talk.

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So I haven't always felt like the plenary sessions are specifically tailored to me,

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but I think it's a good idea.

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You want to go to the talks that are kind of like considered the highest quality rate.

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The plenary session is like the best of the best of the talks that have been presented

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that year.

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And so even if the subject matter may not be that helpful to you, you also want to get

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a sense of what does it take to be a plenary abstract session and definitely attending

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one will give you a sense of that.

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All right.

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So that's all I got to share with you this episode, reminding you that we do have another

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webinar coming up on December 20th at noon and that is about what to do when you have

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no mentor.

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If this episode has been helpful to you, please definitely share with somebody else and leave

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00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:11,520
us a review.

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Leave us a five star review please.

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Or ask us a question about like a topic that you would like addressed at your at our next

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in one of our future episodes.

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All right.

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It's been a pleasure talking with you today.

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I want to thank you so much for tuning in.

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I look forward to talking with you again the next time.

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Thanks for listening to this episode of the clinician researcher podcast where academic

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clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

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have a mentor.

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If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

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Someone else needs to hear it.

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So take a minute right now and share it.

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As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

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of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.