Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills
to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.
When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find
that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research
program.
Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.
However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.
For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians
the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.
Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.
I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and as always, it is a pleasure to be speaking with you today.
I want to thank you for taking the time to tune in and listen to this episode, because
honestly, if you weren't listening, I wouldn't be talking.
And yes, I may have already recorded this episode, but it wouldn't matter if you were
not listening to it.
So I want to thank you so much for just tuning in and listening to this episode.
I am excited to share with you this episode titled, Reconsidering Your Research Career.
And I feel like it's a really important topic to discuss because many people have these
thoughts and they're buried deep inside because there's a little bit of shame associated
with it because it's the Holy Grail.
It's a thing you've pursued for so long.
And sometimes to even have the thought feels like a great betrayal, feels like a great
disloyalty to the people who've supported you to this time.
And so there's a little bit of shame and concern mixed in with this feeling.
And sometimes people are afraid to express their thoughts that they're actually reconsidering
their research career.
And so I am here to talk to you about it, to let you know that, hey, this is actually
a common problem.
And to just say that it's a safe space.
It's me and you.
It's one and one.
And I'm going to share with you some things to consider as you're reconsidering your research
career.
It's interesting.
This is the Clinician Researcher podcast, right?
So I'm here to support and encourage people who want to lead research programs.
And I recognize that along the way, we may change our minds or at least doubt our initial
convictions.
And it's okay.
So I'm here to talk about that.
And I want to say more than any other conversation we've had, this is a confidential conversation.
I don't want you to be afraid.
And I don't want you to hold back your thoughts.
I really do want this to be an episode that stimulates your thoughts and that allows you
to think deeply about the way you feel without judgment.
Okay?
I will share that I've always asked myself this question.
And to be honest, it's a question I asked myself today, especially when challenges come
and it's like, goodness, this is so hard.
Is this worth it?
And one of the things I also think about is, you know, I want to have a bigger career than
just medicine.
And I love medicine.
I think it's a great, great, great...
Oh my gosh, it's a great platform to really, really benefit humanity.
And there's so much more beyond just administering healthcare and also investigating healthcare.
And sometimes the challenges feel overwhelming.
And so I want to say that I resonate firsthand with every time somebody says, I'm not sure.
I'm not sure this is what I want to do.
And I had a conversation with someone along these lines yesterday who we had this, you
know, it was a small group conversation.
Conversation was over.
It was time for lunch.
And she just kind of pulled me aside and said, I'm not sure if this is really what I want
to do.
And she said it in a way that was so quiet.
She said it in a way that just, you know, made it feel as if she was saying something
bad, but like she was like afraid that I would betray her trust or judge her.
And I felt for her because we have this feeling like, well, people have made all these investments.
You submitted all these grants.
They said we're going to do all these things.
But what if this is not what I want to do?
And so I just want to encourage you that there are so many people having these same thoughts
and they are absolutely worth exploring.
And I want to talk to you about it today.
So the first thing I want to encourage you to do is to not be afraid to ask that question.
I want to tell you that the breakthrough for your career lies on the other side of that
question because for you to come to a place where you're asking the question, is research
really the right career for me?
You have come to actually a really important defining point because you've been feeling
it all along.
It's been somewhere in the back of your mind nagging you as you've been submitting grants,
nagging you as you've been moving forward papers.
All of a sudden for you to stop and ask the question is for you to acknowledge a thing
that's been brewing in your mind for days, weeks, months, possibly even years.
And the challenge of academia, the challenge of our clinical scientist training is that
there's so much to do.
It's easy to just keep going through the motions without ever asking, well, is this even really
what I want to do?
And we're not surrounded by people who support us in asking that question.
So for us to be able to ask that question represents a real breakthrough.
So I just want to first of all congratulate you if you're thinking along these lines.
I want to congratulate you for asking that question because I do think it's an important
question and it's an acknowledgement of the thing you're already feeling.
So you're giving voice to a feeling that's been lying around inside you for a long time.
Or maybe you're listening and you're still in denial about the way you feel about your
research.
You're still in denial because if you even entertain the thought that you stopped this
hamster wheel and you can't afford to stop, not now.
And it's okay too.
I just want to say that whatever feelings are inside you are valid.
Whether you accept them or not, that's valid as well.
But I do want to say that if the feeling, if you're having feelings that maybe this
is not what you want to do, it is okay to acknowledge them.
And that really is the first step.
It doesn't mean you're quitting.
It doesn't mean you're walking away from years worth of investment.
It just means that you're taking time to acknowledge the way you feel about something that feels
so important.
And you may be a little bit worried that somebody else might read your thoughts and discover
it and be really upset.
So do not be afraid to ask the question, is research the right answer for me?
Do not be afraid to reconsider your research career.
The second thing I want to share with you is to ask you not to focus on what you're
doing, but to really focus on the impact you want to have.
So focus not on what you do, but focus on impact.
Sometimes this question about reconsidering our research careers comes when we're thinking
about our life beyond just our careers.
When we're thinking about our lives beyond just our research.
You're like, I'm a husband and father.
I am a wife and mother.
I'm a daughter.
I'm a friend.
I've got so much more I want to do.
Writing these grants time after time after time.
Is this really the best use of my career?
Is this what I want to do?
And I think it's a good thing because really what you're asking is a question of your impact.
You are asking the question of your investment relative to your impact.
And when you focus on the investment, especially when you're first starting, it feels like
a lot has been invested for very minimal return.
And so yes, it makes sense that you're stepping back and saying, wait a minute, wait a minute.
Does this make sense?
Am I spending too much?
But what you want to do is you want to pause.
You want to take a step back and you want to ask your big picture question.
What is my career in service of?
What is the impact I'm going to make?
And for many of us when we started, there was a sense of, I just want to help patients.
Not very specific, but very clear to us.
I just want to help people.
I just want to help patients.
But now that we recognize the vast world that is medicine, there's a little bit more specificity
to it.
I want to help people with diabetes live well.
I don't want any more limbs taken off of people who are underrepresented.
I don't want that.
You have a very, very specific question that you're asking that you're concerned about.
And so really what I want you to do is to take a step back and focus on the impact.
Focus on the impact.
What impact did you come to have?
Don't be focused on the grants.
Don't be focused on requirements or promotion or tenure or any of that.
But really ask yourself, what impact did I come to have?
And the reason you want to ask that question is because, you know what?
Can you have that impact outside of your research program?
It's a question you're going to want to consider.
But the second question you're also going to want to consider is, can you continue to
have that impact within your research program, but where you're not necessarily the biggest
driver of how that impact is being made?
And maybe I should put it in another way.
If you're going to have impact, you're always going to be the driver of the impact.
But who else can serve you on your way to making that impact?
Because sometimes we become overwhelmed when we're the only ones grinding and we're the
only ones trying to move things forward, where we don't have people to support us.
But our journey is really about bringing people alongside us to establish the dream.
And so you want to be clear about the impact you want to make so that you can think about
what are all the strategies to make this same impact?
And you want to think about the strategies within your research program and you want
to think about the strategies outside your research program.
Because you came to make impact.
You came to make your life count.
And research is not the only way you can do that.
So you want to think about how you can make that same kind of level of impact with or
without your research program.
The third thing I want you to ask is what are the benefits that have come to you from
leading a research program?
What benefits have come to you from leading a research program?
Think about it.
Think about things like flexibility, things like the opportunity to pursue your own intellectual
pursuits.
Think about if you love writing like me, the opportunity to write.
Think about all the benefits that have come to you, maybe funding, recognition, awards.
Think about all the benefits.
The reason I want you to think about the benefits is that when we focus on the things that are
not working, it tricks us into believing that nothing has ever worked.
And so to some extent, what I'm asking you to do is a gratitude journal for your research.
How has your research served you?
How has it helped you move forward?
How has it helped you become a better clinician?
How has it helped you become a better thinker?
How has it helped you in your relationships with people within and outside healthcare?
How has it expanded your networks?
So I'm asking you, I'm asking you to write, write it down, keep a gratitude journal of
how your research has helped you.
And the reason for this gratitude journal is not to tell you, well, great, now don't
turn back.
It's because sometimes you get to the end of the gratitude journal and you say, wow,
this career has really served me.
And now I want to say thank you and goodbye.
Yeah, that may be your response.
Or it may be, wow, this career is really serving me.
I want to stay.
And the conclusion you come to is neither right nor wrong.
It just is.
But to acknowledge the benefits, either so that you can thank your career for how much
it served you until now, or to acknowledge the benefits and say, okay, let's keep going.
You don't know yet which direction you're going to take until you've acknowledged those
benefits.
So consider what are the benefits that have come from your research?
And that's number three.
The fourth thing I want you to consider, and this is whether you choose to stay or not,
is who else can help lead your research?
Who else can help lead your research?
One of the most recent books that has really made a great impression on me is the book
by Dan Sullivan and Dr. Benjamin Hardy.
And it is called Who, Not How.
I love that book because you keep thinking, okay, how do I learn to do this?
How do I learn to do that?
And what you really know is you're coming into your own independence.
You're coming into your own as an individual.
In that particular book, it's talking specifically about business, but as someone leading a research
program, you kind of are your own business owner.
And really it's asking, well, not how do I do more?
How do I go learn more so I can do it?
But really who can cut the shortcuts?
Who already has access to this information?
Who knows exactly what to do?
And to invite them to the table to do it.
So that's the question I'm asking you today is who else can help you lead?
Who else can help move projects forward so that whether you're there or not, projects
are moving forward?
Oh, I like what one senior scientist told me yesterday.
He was like, if you are still doing all the work within your research program, you're
not ready.
But this applies whether you stay or you leave, because if you stay, you still do want somebody
else.
You still want others who are moving the research forward, whether or not you're involved in
it.
You still want the...
You don't want to be involved in the day to day to day to day like you were when you first
started.
And if you're there where you're like, oh, wait a minute, it's just me right now.
That's okay.
Your goal ultimately would be to get to the place where other people are going to help
you lead.
But you want to start asking who's going to help me lead or who can help me lead today
or who will help me lead tomorrow.
But you want to ask that question because if you're going to let go, you want to know
that you're letting go and the work can continue.
Or you want to stay and know that even though you're turning your interest to different
things, your work still continues.
And so you want to make sure to clarify who else can help you lead, who can be a co-leader
with you, who can you bring alongside you to keep the work going.
The fifth thing I want to ask you to do is to connect with people outside your institution.
It's time to move to safe spaces to talk about your challenges.
And I'm not saying that your institution is not a safe place, please don't hear what I'm
not saying.
I'm not saying your institution is not a safe place.
But if you consider whenever you've had the thought of, oh, is research the right career
decision for me?
The first person you've thought to tell is not your mentor, because you wonder if that
will make them pull back or make them be disappointed.
You feel nervous and anxious because you don't want people to know.
You don't want them to think this is your final decision because you're still thinking
about it.
You really want a safe space to talk about your decision making.
Because for some of us, especially for those of us who didn't come to research during our
clinical training, there's the sense that, wait a minute, there's so much else I could
do and this path is so hard.
Is it still worth it?
Is this even worth it?
And you want to have those conversations in safe and secret places before you're ready
to reveal the answer.
Because at the end of these conversations, it may be that you say, you know what, research
is still right for me.
But it also may be that you say, oh, it's not right for me.
So you don't want anybody to be confused who's relevant to helping you move research forward.
You don't want the person who's helping you mentor you, who's helping mentor you, you
don't want to give them the impression that you quit before you do quit, in case it means
they pull back as well.
And you're like, wait, wait, wait, I was just kidding.
So you want to connect with people outside of your immediate environment.
I want you to go and find a safe space, a safe place where you can have a conversation
really is focused on you, what you want, what you need.
And so you want to connect.
And these connections are especially important actually outside your institution, the safest
spaces where nobody knows and can make connections.
And so you're not going to talk to your mentor's primary collaborator.
Or maybe you might if you really trust them.
But you want to move outside of your immediate environment to a place where nobody judges
you, where nobody feels like they've invested their life in your career succeeding.
And now you're about to give up.
Because you know, that really does, it really does.
People are human, right?
It really does bother them.
It's like, wait a minute, I've invested in you so you can succeed.
And now you're going to tell me you quit?
People are human.
And in their first thought, they may discourage you.
So you want to go to a safe space so you can make sure that you can have these conversations
free of judgment.
The sixth thing I want to tell you is to take time to investigate your options.
You have many options.
Okay, I want to say that again.
You have many options.
You are a clinician.
And before you were a clinician, you had many options.
Your clinician now, you have many options.
You lead research, you have many options.
Those options are traditional, like they could be maybe in a different role in academia,
maybe moving into an industry role, maybe moving to a government agency like the FDA.
There are many possible options.
But so I want you to know that so that you're not kind of going into this place of scarcity
saying, well, if I don't do this academic career, I can't do anything else.
No, that's not true.
But before you make any decisions about what you can or cannot do, investigate the options.
What are the options?
And it's important because you may investigate all the options and then say, you know what,
this is still the best option for me for this phase of my life, for this stage of my career,
this is still the best option for me.
It's okay to investigate.
It's a minimum requirement.
What are all the possibilities so that you can make an informed decision?
This is your career.
This is your life.
Your family is impacted.
Your significant others impacted.
People care that you are healthy and happy.
People care that you're healthy and happy.
And so you want to do this for you and for everyone around you who loves you.
You want to take time to make sure that you investigate the option.
And the seventh thing I want to tell you is to take only one step.
It can feel overwhelming when you consider all the possible options.
It can feel so overwhelming.
But I'm asking you, I'm inviting you to take only one step.
And what is that step going to be today?
Maybe your first step is to ask yourself the question, honestly, how do I feel about this
research career?
What are the things I hate about it?
And what are the things I love?
Only one step today.
Only one step.
So I'm inviting you to take a step today and just look at your research career and say,
well, what one step do I need to take today to help me clarify whether this is for me
or not?
Who do I need to talk to?
Take one step, send them an email.
Take one step.
Maybe you send them a text.
Maybe it's your colleague at a different institution.
Take one step.
Just one step.
And I invite you to tell me what that step is.
And perhaps you can do it by sending me a DM on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn.
Or you can leave a podcast voicemail for me on the podcast website, clinicianresearcherpodcast.com.
Or you can send me a message through my coaching site, coechcoach.com, C-O-A-G-C-O-A-C-H.com.
Yeah, but those are the seven things.
I want you to, one, not be afraid to ask the question.
Two, focus not on what you do, but focus on the impact you want.
Number three, think about the benefits that have come from your research.
Number four, think about who else can help you lead, whether you stay in your research
program or not.
Number five, connect with people outside your institution.
Number six, take time to investigate your options.
And number seven, take just one step.
Just one step today.
Don't wait till tomorrow.
Take the one step today.
All right.
It has been a privilege talking with you today.
And thank you for what I feel has been a vulnerable and sacred space.
And know that as you're considering your career decision, I wish you well.
And if you want to reach out and get some coaching around it, I'd be happy to do that
for you.
All right.
I'll talk to you soon.
Take care.
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they
have a mentor.
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.
Someone else needs to hear it.
So take a minute right now and share it.
As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation
of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.