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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.

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I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and as always, it is a pleasure to be speaking with you today.

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I want to thank you for taking the time to tune in and listen to this episode, because

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honestly, if you weren't listening, I wouldn't be talking.

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And yes, I may have already recorded this episode, but it wouldn't matter if you were

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not listening to it.

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So I want to thank you so much for just tuning in and listening to this episode.

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I am excited to share with you this episode titled, Reconsidering Your Research Career.

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And I feel like it's a really important topic to discuss because many people have these

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thoughts and they're buried deep inside because there's a little bit of shame associated

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with it because it's the Holy Grail.

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It's a thing you've pursued for so long.

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And sometimes to even have the thought feels like a great betrayal, feels like a great

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disloyalty to the people who've supported you to this time.

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And so there's a little bit of shame and concern mixed in with this feeling.

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And sometimes people are afraid to express their thoughts that they're actually reconsidering

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their research career.

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And so I am here to talk to you about it, to let you know that, hey, this is actually

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a common problem.

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And to just say that it's a safe space.

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It's me and you.

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It's one and one.

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And I'm going to share with you some things to consider as you're reconsidering your research

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career.

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It's interesting.

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This is the Clinician Researcher podcast, right?

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So I'm here to support and encourage people who want to lead research programs.

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And I recognize that along the way, we may change our minds or at least doubt our initial

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convictions.

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And it's okay.

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So I'm here to talk about that.

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And I want to say more than any other conversation we've had, this is a confidential conversation.

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I don't want you to be afraid.

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And I don't want you to hold back your thoughts.

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I really do want this to be an episode that stimulates your thoughts and that allows you

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to think deeply about the way you feel without judgment.

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Okay?

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I will share that I've always asked myself this question.

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And to be honest, it's a question I asked myself today, especially when challenges come

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and it's like, goodness, this is so hard.

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Is this worth it?

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And one of the things I also think about is, you know, I want to have a bigger career than

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just medicine.

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And I love medicine.

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I think it's a great, great, great...

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Oh my gosh, it's a great platform to really, really benefit humanity.

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And there's so much more beyond just administering healthcare and also investigating healthcare.

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And sometimes the challenges feel overwhelming.

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And so I want to say that I resonate firsthand with every time somebody says, I'm not sure.

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I'm not sure this is what I want to do.

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And I had a conversation with someone along these lines yesterday who we had this, you

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know, it was a small group conversation.

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Conversation was over.

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It was time for lunch.

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And she just kind of pulled me aside and said, I'm not sure if this is really what I want

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to do.

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And she said it in a way that was so quiet.

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She said it in a way that just, you know, made it feel as if she was saying something

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bad, but like she was like afraid that I would betray her trust or judge her.

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And I felt for her because we have this feeling like, well, people have made all these investments.

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You submitted all these grants.

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They said we're going to do all these things.

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But what if this is not what I want to do?

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And so I just want to encourage you that there are so many people having these same thoughts

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and they are absolutely worth exploring.

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And I want to talk to you about it today.

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So the first thing I want to encourage you to do is to not be afraid to ask that question.

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I want to tell you that the breakthrough for your career lies on the other side of that

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question because for you to come to a place where you're asking the question, is research

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really the right career for me?

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You have come to actually a really important defining point because you've been feeling

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it all along.

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It's been somewhere in the back of your mind nagging you as you've been submitting grants,

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nagging you as you've been moving forward papers.

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All of a sudden for you to stop and ask the question is for you to acknowledge a thing

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that's been brewing in your mind for days, weeks, months, possibly even years.

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And the challenge of academia, the challenge of our clinical scientist training is that

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there's so much to do.

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It's easy to just keep going through the motions without ever asking, well, is this even really

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what I want to do?

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And we're not surrounded by people who support us in asking that question.

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So for us to be able to ask that question represents a real breakthrough.

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So I just want to first of all congratulate you if you're thinking along these lines.

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I want to congratulate you for asking that question because I do think it's an important

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question and it's an acknowledgement of the thing you're already feeling.

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So you're giving voice to a feeling that's been lying around inside you for a long time.

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Or maybe you're listening and you're still in denial about the way you feel about your

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research.

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You're still in denial because if you even entertain the thought that you stopped this

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hamster wheel and you can't afford to stop, not now.

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And it's okay too.

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I just want to say that whatever feelings are inside you are valid.

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Whether you accept them or not, that's valid as well.

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But I do want to say that if the feeling, if you're having feelings that maybe this

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is not what you want to do, it is okay to acknowledge them.

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And that really is the first step.

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It doesn't mean you're quitting.

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It doesn't mean you're walking away from years worth of investment.

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It just means that you're taking time to acknowledge the way you feel about something that feels

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so important.

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And you may be a little bit worried that somebody else might read your thoughts and discover

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it and be really upset.

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So do not be afraid to ask the question, is research the right answer for me?

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Do not be afraid to reconsider your research career.

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The second thing I want to share with you is to ask you not to focus on what you're

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doing, but to really focus on the impact you want to have.

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So focus not on what you do, but focus on impact.

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Sometimes this question about reconsidering our research careers comes when we're thinking

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about our life beyond just our careers.

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When we're thinking about our lives beyond just our research.

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You're like, I'm a husband and father.

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I am a wife and mother.

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I'm a daughter.

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I'm a friend.

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I've got so much more I want to do.

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Writing these grants time after time after time.

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Is this really the best use of my career?

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Is this what I want to do?

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And I think it's a good thing because really what you're asking is a question of your impact.

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You are asking the question of your investment relative to your impact.

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And when you focus on the investment, especially when you're first starting, it feels like

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a lot has been invested for very minimal return.

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And so yes, it makes sense that you're stepping back and saying, wait a minute, wait a minute.

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Does this make sense?

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Am I spending too much?

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But what you want to do is you want to pause.

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You want to take a step back and you want to ask your big picture question.

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What is my career in service of?

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What is the impact I'm going to make?

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And for many of us when we started, there was a sense of, I just want to help patients.

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Not very specific, but very clear to us.

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I just want to help people.

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I just want to help patients.

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But now that we recognize the vast world that is medicine, there's a little bit more specificity

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to it.

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I want to help people with diabetes live well.

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I don't want any more limbs taken off of people who are underrepresented.

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I don't want that.

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You have a very, very specific question that you're asking that you're concerned about.

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And so really what I want you to do is to take a step back and focus on the impact.

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Focus on the impact.

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What impact did you come to have?

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What impact did you come to have?

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Don't be focused on the grants.

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Don't be focused on requirements or promotion or tenure or any of that.

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But really ask yourself, what impact did I come to have?

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And the reason you want to ask that question is because, you know what?

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Can you have that impact outside of your research program?

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It's a question you're going to want to consider.

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But the second question you're also going to want to consider is, can you continue to

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have that impact within your research program, but where you're not necessarily the biggest

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driver of how that impact is being made?

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And maybe I should put it in another way.

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If you're going to have impact, you're always going to be the driver of the impact.

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But who else can serve you on your way to making that impact?

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Because sometimes we become overwhelmed when we're the only ones grinding and we're the

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only ones trying to move things forward, where we don't have people to support us.

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But our journey is really about bringing people alongside us to establish the dream.

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And so you want to be clear about the impact you want to make so that you can think about

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what are all the strategies to make this same impact?

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And you want to think about the strategies within your research program and you want

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to think about the strategies outside your research program.

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Because you came to make impact.

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You came to make your life count.

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And research is not the only way you can do that.

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So you want to think about how you can make that same kind of level of impact with or

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without your research program.

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The third thing I want you to ask is what are the benefits that have come to you from

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leading a research program?

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What benefits have come to you from leading a research program?

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Think about it.

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Think about things like flexibility, things like the opportunity to pursue your own intellectual

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pursuits.

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Think about if you love writing like me, the opportunity to write.

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Think about all the benefits that have come to you, maybe funding, recognition, awards.

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Think about all the benefits.

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The reason I want you to think about the benefits is that when we focus on the things that are

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not working, it tricks us into believing that nothing has ever worked.

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And so to some extent, what I'm asking you to do is a gratitude journal for your research.

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How has your research served you?

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How has it helped you move forward?

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How has it helped you become a better clinician?

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How has it helped you become a better thinker?

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How has it helped you in your relationships with people within and outside healthcare?

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How has it expanded your networks?

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So I'm asking you, I'm asking you to write, write it down, keep a gratitude journal of

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how your research has helped you.

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And the reason for this gratitude journal is not to tell you, well, great, now don't

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turn back.

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It's because sometimes you get to the end of the gratitude journal and you say, wow,

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this career has really served me.

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And now I want to say thank you and goodbye.

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Yeah, that may be your response.

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Or it may be, wow, this career is really serving me.

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I want to stay.

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And the conclusion you come to is neither right nor wrong.

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It just is.

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But to acknowledge the benefits, either so that you can thank your career for how much

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it served you until now, or to acknowledge the benefits and say, okay, let's keep going.

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You don't know yet which direction you're going to take until you've acknowledged those

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benefits.

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So consider what are the benefits that have come from your research?

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And that's number three.

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The fourth thing I want you to consider, and this is whether you choose to stay or not,

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is who else can help lead your research?

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Who else can help lead your research?

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One of the most recent books that has really made a great impression on me is the book

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by Dan Sullivan and Dr. Benjamin Hardy.

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And it is called Who, Not How.

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I love that book because you keep thinking, okay, how do I learn to do this?

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How do I learn to do that?

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And what you really know is you're coming into your own independence.

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You're coming into your own as an individual.

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In that particular book, it's talking specifically about business, but as someone leading a research

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program, you kind of are your own business owner.

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And really it's asking, well, not how do I do more?

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How do I go learn more so I can do it?

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But really who can cut the shortcuts?

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Who already has access to this information?

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Who knows exactly what to do?

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And to invite them to the table to do it.

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So that's the question I'm asking you today is who else can help you lead?

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Who else can help move projects forward so that whether you're there or not, projects

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are moving forward?

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Oh, I like what one senior scientist told me yesterday.

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He was like, if you are still doing all the work within your research program, you're

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not ready.

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But this applies whether you stay or you leave, because if you stay, you still do want somebody

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else.

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You still want others who are moving the research forward, whether or not you're involved in

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it.

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You still want the...

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You don't want to be involved in the day to day to day to day like you were when you first

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started.

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And if you're there where you're like, oh, wait a minute, it's just me right now.

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That's okay.

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Your goal ultimately would be to get to the place where other people are going to help

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you lead.

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But you want to start asking who's going to help me lead or who can help me lead today

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or who will help me lead tomorrow.

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But you want to ask that question because if you're going to let go, you want to know

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that you're letting go and the work can continue.

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Or you want to stay and know that even though you're turning your interest to different

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things, your work still continues.

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And so you want to make sure to clarify who else can help you lead, who can be a co-leader

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with you, who can you bring alongside you to keep the work going.

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The fifth thing I want to ask you to do is to connect with people outside your institution.

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It's time to move to safe spaces to talk about your challenges.

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And I'm not saying that your institution is not a safe place, please don't hear what I'm

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not saying.

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I'm not saying your institution is not a safe place.

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But if you consider whenever you've had the thought of, oh, is research the right career

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decision for me?

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The first person you've thought to tell is not your mentor, because you wonder if that

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will make them pull back or make them be disappointed.

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You feel nervous and anxious because you don't want people to know.

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You don't want them to think this is your final decision because you're still thinking

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about it.

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You really want a safe space to talk about your decision making.

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Because for some of us, especially for those of us who didn't come to research during our

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clinical training, there's the sense that, wait a minute, there's so much else I could

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do and this path is so hard.

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Is it still worth it?

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Is this even worth it?

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And you want to have those conversations in safe and secret places before you're ready

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to reveal the answer.

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Because at the end of these conversations, it may be that you say, you know what, research

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is still right for me.

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But it also may be that you say, oh, it's not right for me.

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So you don't want anybody to be confused who's relevant to helping you move research forward.

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You don't want the person who's helping you mentor you, who's helping mentor you, you

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don't want to give them the impression that you quit before you do quit, in case it means

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they pull back as well.

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And you're like, wait, wait, wait, I was just kidding.

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So you want to connect with people outside of your immediate environment.

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I want you to go and find a safe space, a safe place where you can have a conversation

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really is focused on you, what you want, what you need.

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And so you want to connect.

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And these connections are especially important actually outside your institution, the safest

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spaces where nobody knows and can make connections.

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And so you're not going to talk to your mentor's primary collaborator.

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Or maybe you might if you really trust them.

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But you want to move outside of your immediate environment to a place where nobody judges

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you, where nobody feels like they've invested their life in your career succeeding.

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And now you're about to give up.

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Because you know, that really does, it really does.

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People are human, right?

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It really does bother them.

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It's like, wait a minute, I've invested in you so you can succeed.

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And now you're going to tell me you quit?

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People are human.

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And in their first thought, they may discourage you.

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So you want to go to a safe space so you can make sure that you can have these conversations

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free of judgment.

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The sixth thing I want to tell you is to take time to investigate your options.

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You have many options.

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Okay, I want to say that again.

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You have many options.

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You are a clinician.

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And before you were a clinician, you had many options.

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Your clinician now, you have many options.

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You lead research, you have many options.

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Those options are traditional, like they could be maybe in a different role in academia,

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maybe moving into an industry role, maybe moving to a government agency like the FDA.

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There are many possible options.

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But so I want you to know that so that you're not kind of going into this place of scarcity

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saying, well, if I don't do this academic career, I can't do anything else.

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No, that's not true.

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But before you make any decisions about what you can or cannot do, investigate the options.

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What are the options?

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And it's important because you may investigate all the options and then say, you know what,

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this is still the best option for me for this phase of my life, for this stage of my career,

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this is still the best option for me.

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It's okay to investigate.

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It's a minimum requirement.

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What are all the possibilities so that you can make an informed decision?

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This is your career.

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This is your life.

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Your family is impacted.

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Your significant others impacted.

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People care that you are healthy and happy.

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People care that you're healthy and happy.

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And so you want to do this for you and for everyone around you who loves you.

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You want to take time to make sure that you investigate the option.

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And the seventh thing I want to tell you is to take only one step.

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It can feel overwhelming when you consider all the possible options.

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It can feel so overwhelming.

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But I'm asking you, I'm inviting you to take only one step.

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And what is that step going to be today?

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Maybe your first step is to ask yourself the question, honestly, how do I feel about this

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research career?

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What are the things I hate about it?

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And what are the things I love?

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Only one step today.

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Only one step.

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So I'm inviting you to take a step today and just look at your research career and say,

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well, what one step do I need to take today to help me clarify whether this is for me

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or not?

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Who do I need to talk to?

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Take one step, send them an email.

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Take one step.

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Maybe you send them a text.

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Maybe it's your colleague at a different institution.

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Take one step.

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Just one step.

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And I invite you to tell me what that step is.

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And perhaps you can do it by sending me a DM on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn.

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Or you can leave a podcast voicemail for me on the podcast website, clinicianresearcherpodcast.com.

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Or you can send me a message through my coaching site, coechcoach.com, C-O-A-G-C-O-A-C-H.com.

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Yeah, but those are the seven things.

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I want you to, one, not be afraid to ask the question.

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Two, focus not on what you do, but focus on the impact you want.

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Number three, think about the benefits that have come from your research.

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Number four, think about who else can help you lead, whether you stay in your research

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program or not.

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Number five, connect with people outside your institution.

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Number six, take time to investigate your options.

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And number seven, take just one step.

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Just one step today.

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Don't wait till tomorrow.

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Take the one step today.

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All right.

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It has been a privilege talking with you today.

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And thank you for what I feel has been a vulnerable and sacred space.

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And know that as you're considering your career decision, I wish you well.

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And if you want to reach out and get some coaching around it, I'd be happy to do that

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for you.

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All right.

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I'll talk to you soon.

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Take care.

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Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic

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clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

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have a mentor.

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If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

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Someone else needs to hear it.

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So take a minute right now and share it.

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As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

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of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.