1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills 2 00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260 to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 3 00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340 As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients. 4 00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380 When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find 5 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780 that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research 6 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200 program. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480 Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit. 8 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580 However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs. 9 00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200 For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800 the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,160 Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene. 12 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,800 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast. 13 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:08,860 I'm your host Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be speaking with you today. 14 00:01:08,860 --> 00:01:12,560 Today I'm going to be talking about how to create structure to help you succeed in any 15 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,920 academic goal that you set for yourself. 16 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:21,200 And I will tell you that one thing I had throughout my training, and I'm going to bet you had 17 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,240 to, is structure. 18 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,920 And structure in medical school, I knew exactly which electors were being held when, where 19 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,400 I had to be at any given time was very clearly laid out. 20 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,040 It was helpful to have that structure. 21 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:37,280 A lot of the things I accomplished in medical school, I accomplished because there was structure 22 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,680 that supported my doing that. 23 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,760 And similarly, when I went to residency, oh, there was a structure. 24 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:45,860 Every month there's a new rotation. 25 00:01:45,860 --> 00:01:47,520 I know exactly what the rotation is. 26 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:48,720 I know who my attendings are. 27 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,760 I know who the residents I'm working with are. 28 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,680 I knew everything I needed to know because there was structure. 29 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,520 And then in fellowship, there was clearly structure. 30 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:02,400 There was a 12-month rotation for my rotation schedule for my first year. 31 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,400 And then in my second year, I knew exactly what clinics I was going to be in, and I knew 32 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,440 what research I was going to do. 33 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,200 And then I became a faculty member. 34 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,140 Ooh, and all that structure goes away. 35 00:02:15,140 --> 00:02:19,600 The structure around your clinic doesn't go away because, wow, there it is. 36 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,840 Every Tuesday and Thursday, I'm in the clinic, and these are the patients who are coming. 37 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,120 So it's really nice. 38 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:26,960 You have structure in the clinic. 39 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,280 You have structure around consults, too. 40 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,760 It's like, this is the number of patients you've been called about. 41 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,340 These are the ones you need to see before the day is over. 42 00:02:36,340 --> 00:02:41,120 So in everything we've done in our clinical training, we've always had structure. 43 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,480 And then all of a sudden, we come to faculty careers, and we're supposed to accomplish 44 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,920 academic things, but then we find that there's no structure. 45 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:53,480 If you're lucky, you have a mentor who meets with you every week to help you create the 46 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,580 structure that you need. 47 00:02:55,580 --> 00:03:00,720 If you are like most people, you don't have a mentor who can give you that structure. 48 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,720 Many of your mentors are hoping that you can figure it out because they are really busy 49 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:10,200 and they don't necessarily have the bandwidth to help give you the structure that you need. 50 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:14,740 They can give you targeted feedback about specific things, but they may not be able 51 00:03:14,740 --> 00:03:17,000 to help provide the structure. 52 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:25,360 And maybe for some that do, sometimes trying to give you the structure means maybe badgering 53 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:31,080 you or nagging you so that you can do the thing and move your goal forward. 54 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,080 So today, I want to talk to you about creating the structure for yourself. 55 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,840 And I want to invite you to think about structure as your friend. 56 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,920 Think about the success you've had because of structure that you've had. 57 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,340 So think about the structure you had in medical school, how it helped you win. 58 00:03:47,340 --> 00:03:51,560 Think about the structure you had through residency and if you did fellowship, fellowship. 59 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,600 Think about how that structure was helpful to you. 60 00:03:54,600 --> 00:04:01,680 And recognize that even when we hate structure, even when we love to be free and spontaneous, 61 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,520 there is value in structure. 62 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:09,960 And if you're going to accomplish academic things within the academy that for you as 63 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:16,800 a clinician is mostly focused on helping you do well as a clinician for the most part, 64 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:21,920 if you're going to be successful doing the academic things that lack structure, you're 65 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,440 going to have to create the structure for yourself. 66 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,880 And if you don't create it for yourself, you're going to go find the structure and be a part 67 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:29,880 of it. 68 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:35,480 And so in this episode, I'm talking to you about how you create your own structure, how 69 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:42,400 you stop waiting for somebody else to tell you what to do or tell you where the structures 70 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:44,680 are and to create it for yourself. 71 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:50,120 Because here's the thing, in academic medical centers, there's so much of the priority around 72 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,960 patient care and so much accountability around patient care. 73 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,500 That's the easiest thing for people to give you feedback about. 74 00:04:58,500 --> 00:05:04,000 It's the easiest thing for people to create accountability and structure about for you. 75 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,680 But you don't need any more structure in clinical care. 76 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,400 You're pretty good around that structure. 77 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,000 And to be honest, the structure will always be there. 78 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,560 The clinic schedules will always be the clinic schedules. 79 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,120 The consult schedules will be the consult schedules. 80 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:21,520 But what you really need help with and what most people don't have help with is a structure 81 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,720 for their research and writing accountability. 82 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,680 Okay, so that's what we're going to talk about. 83 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:31,560 We're going to talk about seven ways to create structure to help you succeed in any goal. 84 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,120 So yes, my focus is on your research and your writing goals. 85 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:39,640 But I'm going to tell you that this is really around any goal that doesn't have its own 86 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,360 inbuilt structure. 87 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:47,240 So the very first thing you want to do is to clarify what direction you're going in. 88 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,000 Now what I didn't say was to clarify your destination. 89 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,920 Because for many of us, we don't know the destination. 90 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,120 We have a general sense of where we're going. 91 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,120 But we don't know exactly where we're going to end up. 92 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,240 We look around us and we look at those who've gone before us and we're like, I really love 93 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,520 that this person is successful in this way. 94 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,560 But I hate the life that they live. 95 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:09,760 I don't want that life. 96 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:15,440 But we look at this other person and we say, wow, I love that this person is a Nobel laureate. 97 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:21,920 And I hate that they've maybe suffered a lot of financial challenges along the way. 98 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,940 Or maybe they've lost some of their important relationships along the way. 99 00:06:25,940 --> 00:06:27,560 I don't want to do that. 100 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:33,000 Or like recently someone told me, she said, I looked around at all the women around me 101 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:38,560 and many of them had lost their significant others in one way or the other because they 102 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,120 were just so consumed by their work. 103 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,520 And so many times, we have a general sense of where we want to go. 104 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,960 But when we look around, we're like, I don't want that. 105 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:47,960 And I don't want that. 106 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:48,960 And I don't want that. 107 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,840 And sometimes that might deter you. 108 00:06:50,840 --> 00:06:56,040 You're like, well, if everybody I see is heading in a direction that I feel like I don't want 109 00:06:56,040 --> 00:07:01,240 a destination, like if everyone I see is heading to a destination I feel like I don't want 110 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,800 to go in, then maybe that's not the destination for me. 111 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,120 So many times, we're not sure what the destination is. 112 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,580 But we have a sense of the direction. 113 00:07:10,580 --> 00:07:12,880 And that's the most important thing. 114 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,900 And the reason it's important that you have a sense of the direction rather than the destination 115 00:07:17,900 --> 00:07:21,580 is that who you're going to become has not yet been defined. 116 00:07:21,580 --> 00:07:25,160 You are creating it in the process of your career. 117 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:30,040 You are literally every day adding one building block to the next building block to the next 118 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,760 building block to create who you're going to be. 119 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,360 The challenge for you is you look ahead to people who've gone on before you, and you're 120 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,360 like, oh my gosh, they're so successful. 121 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:44,120 When you ask them, they tell you the story as if they planned every step of the way. 122 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,280 But if they're going to be honest with you, they will tell you that they took opportunities 123 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,160 as opportunities came to them. 124 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,720 And some opportunities they never imagined until the opportunity was literally staring 125 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,080 them in the face. 126 00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:01,160 And so now they can look back on a 30, 40 year career and say, oh yes, and I did this 127 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:02,160 and I did that. 128 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:03,600 And this is what you should do too. 129 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:08,280 And in reality, everyone's creating in motion. 130 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,240 And if they're creating in motion, you're creating in motion too. 131 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,320 What you're going to become has not yet been defined because you're creating it right now. 132 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,680 You are literally defining it on the go. 133 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:23,720 And so getting a sense of the direction you're going in is important because then you just 134 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,680 start to head in that direction. 135 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:30,120 You start to ask people, you're like, hey, I am going this way. 136 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:31,120 How do I get there? 137 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,400 And yeah, there are people who look at you and say, you mean you don't have a final destination? 138 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,200 Like I don't have anything to do with you. 139 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:38,200 You're confused. 140 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:39,640 And it's okay. 141 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,680 You move away from those people and you find the people who are excited for the adventure 142 00:08:43,680 --> 00:08:47,080 that you're on because you are on an adventure. 143 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,520 Your academic career is an adventure. 144 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:50,760 You don't know where you're going to end up. 145 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:52,880 You have a general sense of it. 146 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:53,880 It's an adventure. 147 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,200 And so you find people and you say, hey, this is a general sense of direction that I'm going 148 00:08:58,200 --> 00:08:59,200 in. 149 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:00,960 Can you tell me how to get there? 150 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,920 And people who are going to support you on the journey will be excited for this adventure 151 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,400 that you're on and they will support you. 152 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,840 And people who are not going to support you, you're going to leave them behind no matter 153 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,920 how accomplished they are because they're just not the supporters for you. 154 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:16,920 It's very simple. 155 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:17,920 It's not personal. 156 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,200 It's just, oh, okay, you're not one of my supporters. 157 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:21,200 Got it. 158 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:29,600 So, yeah, you want to make sure that you clarify the direction you're going in because then 159 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,520 that allows you to ask for directions. 160 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,800 But it also gives you a little bit of freedom because you don't have to finalize the destination 161 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,280 and you don't have to feel like you know exactly where you're going to end up. 162 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,800 You know that this is an adventure and you just go with it. 163 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:45,800 You enjoy it. 164 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,320 So clarify the direction that you're going in. 165 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:49,320 Okay. 166 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,800 Number two is ask, how will I feel when I get there? 167 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,000 Like how will I know? 168 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,400 How will I know I'm there when I get there? 169 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,120 And it's a beautiful thing. 170 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:08,040 It's like what feeling will you have that helps you recognize that you're where you 171 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:09,040 want to be? 172 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,240 Now, remember, you haven't clarified your destination. 173 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:16,320 So you're really, it's like what's the feeling that tells me I'm heading in the right direction? 174 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:17,600 And this is important. 175 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,360 How do I want to feel? 176 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,160 Because for many of us, when we look around, are people who've gone ahead of us and we're 177 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:24,520 like, wow, they're so successful. 178 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,520 Oh, but their life sucks. 179 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:27,520 They're so successful. 180 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,200 Oh, but they're so sick. 181 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:30,200 They're so successful. 182 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,760 Oh, but they don't talk to the adult children. 183 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,000 You know, there are a lot of things that you see and you're like, I love this, but I don't 184 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,000 love that. 185 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:42,320 And so you are clarifying for yourself what's important to you, how you want to feel when 186 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:43,560 you get there. 187 00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:49,600 So perhaps what you're saying is I want to have this successful career. 188 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:54,800 And at the end of it, I still want to be married and talk to my children. 189 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,080 Or you say, I want the successful career. 190 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,080 And at the end, I still want to know my mother. 191 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,620 I still want to have conversations with her regularly. 192 00:11:04,620 --> 00:11:09,680 Or you say, I want to have the successful career and I want to have time for my hobby 193 00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:12,440 of spelunking on weekends. 194 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:17,560 Whatever it is for you, how do I want to feel when I get there is important. 195 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:21,680 The reason you want to focus on that and the reason you want to make sure you clarify for 196 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:28,180 yourself what that feeling is, is because you can easily lose sight of what you want 197 00:11:28,180 --> 00:11:31,000 going after all the things that you're supposed to have. 198 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:36,840 For example, there's a list, there's a number of manuscripts you're supposed to have at 199 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:43,920 the end of your six to 10 years of assistant professorship and you go after it and you 200 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:44,920 make it. 201 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:51,200 And at the end of it, it's like, oh, congratulations, you made it, but you feel so empty. 202 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:52,560 You're like, I don't know, I made it. 203 00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:55,280 Why do I feel so empty? 204 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,080 And that's exactly it. 205 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:03,840 The challenge is that in academia, the receipts, the things we're supposed to have at the 206 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:11,560 end are so clear and sometimes people tell you to go out of your way to make it no matter 207 00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:16,640 what, no matter who you push out of the way, no matter what you do, go for it. 208 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:23,520 And if you take this advice, you end up at the end of a very successful run and you feel 209 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:29,080 empty because while it looks successful to other people, it does not feel successful 210 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:30,080 to you. 211 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:35,640 And that is why you do not ask other people, how should I feel when I get there, you decide 212 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:42,920 for yourself so that as you're going on the journey, you get to say, I don't like the 213 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:44,320 way this is feeling. 214 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:48,080 I see that I'm succeeding, but I don't like the way this is feeling. 215 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,240 I don't like the way I feel icky inside. 216 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:56,240 And it allows you to pause and remember that you want to get to the space of success without 217 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:00,800 feeling like you've lost your values, without feeling like you've transgressed your moral 218 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,840 values. 219 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,000 You want to feel a certain way. 220 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,620 And so you want to clarify for yourself what that feeling is so that every time you start 221 00:13:09,620 --> 00:13:15,200 moving in a direction that transgresses your feelings, that makes you feel like not aligned 222 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,960 with the way you want to show up in this space, it becomes very clear to you. 223 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:25,480 You can take a step back and say, okay, how can I do things differently? 224 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,680 So ask yourself, how will I feel when I get there? 225 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:35,720 You want to know in advance, you want to prepare in advance so that you are not taken by surprise. 226 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:36,720 Okay. 227 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:41,200 Number three, who do I know who's already there? 228 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,540 And this is a really important question. 229 00:13:43,540 --> 00:13:48,900 It's kind of a trick question because sometimes what we do is we look ahead and we look to 230 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:55,000 our chairs, we look to the deans, we look to the presidents of the organization or the 231 00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:00,840 CEO of the hospital and we're like, yes, I want to be right there. 232 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:06,800 But what you're saying is that I want the success they have, but I don't like the things 233 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,300 about their life that's not working exactly. 234 00:14:10,300 --> 00:14:13,520 And so those are not the people you're looking for. 235 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,200 The person who's already there, the person who's already CEO, if they don't have a full 236 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,480 life that represents the kind of life that you want, then that's not who you want to 237 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:22,680 be. 238 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:27,720 Who you want to be is a person who has a success in the health at the same time, the one who 239 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,480 has a success and relationships at the same time. 240 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,800 Because you may be looking at them and saying, I don't want that. 241 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,320 And they're like, I'm having a blast. 242 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,080 This is exactly the life I want. 243 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:40,680 You know, that's them, right? 244 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,160 They've made decisions for themselves. 245 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:48,880 But you want a certain outcome that helps you know you're successful and it's a holistic 246 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:49,880 success. 247 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:56,080 It's not just I have the requisite number of grants or the requisite number of publications 248 00:14:56,080 --> 00:15:01,240 or the requisite number of invited talks and therefore I am now chair of this department. 249 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,040 Good for me. 250 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,280 You want that and more. 251 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,060 You want that in a full life. 252 00:15:08,060 --> 00:15:09,720 You want that in friends. 253 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:11,920 You want that in your family intact. 254 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,980 You want that in a rich full life outside of the academy. 255 00:15:16,980 --> 00:15:20,160 And so ask yourself, who do I know who's already there? 256 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:26,000 Who's there not just in terms of the success on paper, but is there in terms of the success 257 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,000 in life? 258 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:33,720 It is not worth any journey to get to the end of it and to find that you accomplished 259 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:39,040 all these things, but you don't even feel successful. 260 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,660 And so you want to know exactly what success means to you. 261 00:15:42,660 --> 00:15:45,200 And then look around and say, who is there? 262 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:55,120 Who is in that place right now where they have the thing that I want and then some. 263 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,080 They have the papers and then some. 264 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,720 They have the invited talks and then some. 265 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:07,640 You want people who have wholeness and you want people who have peace in their lives. 266 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,240 There is a thing that's attractive to you. 267 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:14,780 I don't know what that is, but you want to identify who do I know who's already there? 268 00:16:14,780 --> 00:16:16,700 Who did it in a healthy way? 269 00:16:16,700 --> 00:16:19,640 Who did it where they're still enjoying their lives? 270 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:21,480 Who did it and they're not miserable? 271 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,480 Who did it and they're not crying at night? 272 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:29,400 Who did it and they're not eating themselves for having embarked on a journey where there 273 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,760 is no end? 274 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:38,840 Because whenever you make it about the stuff, there will be no end to chasing stuff. 275 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:43,880 And that's why you want to ask, who is it who's already there in the place of holistic 276 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:49,840 experience of their career in the way that you want to get there? 277 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:54,760 The number four is to ask, what did they do to get there? 278 00:16:54,760 --> 00:17:00,520 Now this is another trick question because you know there's the what did they do to get 279 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:01,520 there? 280 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:06,280 Okay, they submitted five grants a year and therefore they were able to get one big grant 281 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:12,760 every year or they submitted manuscript after manuscript to journal after journal and therefore 282 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,440 they were able to publish six manuscripts a year. 283 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,160 It's not that. 284 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,960 In reality, that's the easy stuff, right? 285 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,120 That's the stuff that you can probably read in a handbook. 286 00:17:24,120 --> 00:17:27,560 You need X number of manuscripts to be associate professor. 287 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,840 You need X number of grants to be able to be promoted with tenure. 288 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:32,720 You can read that in the paper. 289 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:37,120 And then you can read that where people tell you exactly how you go about trying to do 290 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:38,120 that. 291 00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:40,000 And that's great. 292 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,360 But the people you found that are whole, the people who you found who have both the career 293 00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:49,400 success and the life success, you want to ask how did they do that? 294 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,640 How did they accomplish all the stuff? 295 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:56,760 How did they check all the boxes and still have their joy? 296 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:02,440 How did they check all the boxes and they're still going to activities with their kids? 297 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:07,320 How did they check all the boxes and their siblings still talk to them? 298 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,800 Those are the people you want to ask. 299 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:10,800 What did you do to get there? 300 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:11,800 How? 301 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,160 How did you get there? 302 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:19,240 And again, we're talking about succeeding in any goal, but I'm also talking about succeeding 303 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:20,240 holistically. 304 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:25,440 You can succeed in any goal, not holistically, but I hope that's not the journey that you're 305 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:26,440 on. 306 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,480 It's certainly not the journey I'm on. 307 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:34,120 And so ask what have they done to get here where they're still sane and they still love 308 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:39,080 life and they're still full of joy because that's where you want to be. 309 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,880 Okay, so the moment you've asked what did they do to get there, then you're going to 310 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:43,880 define your steps. 311 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:45,920 You're going to define your steps. 312 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:50,920 Now along the way, you're going to find people that you thought were so full of joy and zest 313 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:55,320 for life and then you go talking to them and you're like, wow, this person is really crabby. 314 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,800 Oh, they seem miserable and oh, I didn't know that that had happened to them. 315 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,000 And you're going to say, maybe I crossed this one off. 316 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,680 I mean, in terms of the directions that they're giving you, but you don't have to do that. 317 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:12,000 What you can do is recognize that, okay, these are the steps they took to get there, but 318 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,200 these are some of the pitfalls that I see that they made. 319 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,320 And so you want to make sure you're not going to end up there. 320 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:23,520 And so you're going to take the directions they give you and modify them for yourself. 321 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,600 What are the steps you need to get to your goal? 322 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,920 Because again, you've clarified the direction you're going in. 323 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,280 You've asked how will I feel when I get there because you don't just want to get there and 324 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:34,280 feel empty. 325 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,600 You want to be sure that you're full. 326 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,400 You want to ask, who do I know who's already there in the way I want to be there? 327 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,360 You asked them, what have you done to get there? 328 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:46,320 You've discovered some surprises along the way. 329 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,120 Now you're going to sit down and plan your roadmap. 330 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:56,480 You're going to say, this person did X, Y, Z. Therefore, I'm going to do X, Y, Z, and 331 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:04,160 I'm going to subtract Z because Z doesn't get me to where I think I want to go because 332 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,280 this person was in the office every day and every night and every weekend. 333 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:09,640 And I don't want to do that. 334 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:10,640 Right. 335 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,760 So define the steps that you need to take to get there. 336 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:19,640 And the number six, maybe the most important thing you do is to create the accountability 337 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,560 that you need. 338 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,440 Who's going to ask you when you forget to do the thing? 339 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:32,920 Who's going to ask you when you have forgotten about the thing completely and you're just 340 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:38,400 now doing your own thing without moving forward in the plan that you set for yourself? 341 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,760 You're not moving forward in the steps you set for yourself. 342 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,640 Who's going to have the courage to ask you, hey, what's going on with those goals that 343 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,800 you set for yourself? 344 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,480 You need accountability. 345 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,640 It's interesting that as humans, we need accountability. 346 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,420 We need someone to ask us. 347 00:20:53,420 --> 00:20:54,880 We don't need them to yell at us. 348 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,920 We don't need them to whack us on the side of the head. 349 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,840 We just need them to ask us because what they're going to ask us is they're going to 350 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,800 say, you set this goal for yourself. 351 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,400 Where are you with this goal? 352 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:15,880 And then it's going to trigger your feeling of wanting to be the kind of person who says 353 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:20,000 a thing and then does what they said they would do. 354 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:25,080 And because of that, the moment you have someone who just asks you and they don't have to judge 355 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,040 you, they don't have to yell at you, they don't have to say, I can't believe you didn't 356 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:29,040 start. 357 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:34,120 All they have to do is ask you and it helps you knowing that they're going to ask you 358 00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:41,680 again next week prepares you so that you take steps to do what you said you would do. 359 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:47,320 And so just the mere act of creating the accountability, having somebody ask you, did you do what you 360 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,880 said you want to do is so transformational. 361 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,400 And in whatever goal you set for yourself, it changes your ability to succeed in that 362 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,160 goal. 363 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,400 Create the accountability that you need. 364 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:05,880 And then number seven is to build the community that supports you. 365 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,000 You have to be strategic in building the community. 366 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,480 Many of us come into the communities that we're in and we just accept the defaults. 367 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,160 And unfortunately, in academia, there's a lot of unhealthy success. 368 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,600 There is a ton of unhealthy success. 369 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:26,800 And if you're not careful, if you follow the default strategies, you will be one of those 370 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:32,480 unhealthy successful people or successful people who are unhealthy. 371 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,120 And so do not accept the default environments. 372 00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:40,840 Do not accept the default communities, no matter how attractive they may seem. 373 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:46,180 Because if you're going to be realistic, you recognize that not everybody has the health 374 00:22:46,180 --> 00:22:50,520 and the wealth in their lives like you want. 375 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:55,160 So don't accept any community where people are not healthy, because guess what? 376 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,880 You're going to become like them. 377 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,680 No you're not the one who's going to go in and change their way of thinking. 378 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,760 You're going to be the one who's going to go in and become like them. 379 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,760 You're going to adjust to their temperature. 380 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:06,280 You're going to adjust to the climate of the room. 381 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:10,680 And you're going to be miserable, miserably successful like them. 382 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:17,040 So you want to build a community that supports you in the goals that you set for yourself. 383 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,920 You're very clear about how you want to feel when you get where you're going. 384 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:26,520 You want to build a community of like-minded people, because they will support you in the 385 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,800 goal that you have chosen for yourself. 386 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,240 And so I just encourage you, if you do not already have that community, I'm inviting 387 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:40,880 you this week to think about who is in that, who is one person, one person who is like-minded 388 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,400 like you are, who says, I want the manuscripts, I want the grants, but I don't want to be 389 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:46,400 miserable. 390 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:47,480 Who is that person? 391 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,960 And connect with them and see if you can start building a community. 392 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,080 It only takes two to start a community. 393 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,080 It takes two. 394 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,000 And the moment you find two like-minded individuals, guess what? 395 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:02,560 You're going to find two more, because each of you finds one and then you become four 396 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,000 and it begins to grow exponentially. 397 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,720 Find a community that supports you so that you can create the structure to help you succeed 398 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:11,720 in any goal. 399 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:16,680 Okay, so I'm going to just recap, clarify the direction you're going in, ask how will 400 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:22,680 I feel when I get there, ask who do I know who's already there, both in the numbers of 401 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,120 things that they've done, but also in their life success. 402 00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:28,280 Number four, ask what they've done to get there. 403 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,240 Number five, define your own steps to get there, one that's specially crafted and tailored 404 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:33,240 for you. 405 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,840 Number six, create the accountability you need. 406 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,040 And number seven, build a community that supports you. 407 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,120 Okay, so these are some of the things I'll be talking about in a webinar that I'm hosting 408 00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:47,800 on Monday, November 20th at 6 p.m., talking about five critical steps you've got to take 409 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,880 if you're going to make the transition from clinician to research scientist. 410 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,160 And actually, I said research leader. 411 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,560 So if you're interested, please join us. 412 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:03,240 Go to our website, goitecoach.com and go to events and you'll find a way to sign up or 413 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:10,520 you can just go to the podcast website, clinicianresearcherpodcast.com and that will have information about our next webinar, 414 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,240 if for whatever reason you've missed it. 415 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,600 All right, it's been a pleasure to talk with you today. 416 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,120 Thank you so much for being part of the show. 417 00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:22,520 Please share this with someone if you have not already subscribed or leave us a five-star 418 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:23,520 review. 419 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,520 We would appreciate it so that other people can find us and continue to advance in their 420 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,520 careers even as you are doing as well. 421 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,200 All right, it's been a pleasure to talk with you today. 422 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:42,160 I look forward to talking with you again the next time. 423 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,480 Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic 424 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:52,960 clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they 425 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,280 have a mentor. 426 00:25:54,280 --> 00:26:00,400 If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself. 427 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,120 Someone else needs to hear it. 428 00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:06,200 So take a minute right now and share it. 429 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:11,640 As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation 430 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:17,600 of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.