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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.

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I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be talking with you this

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day.

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Thank you for tuning in.

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Thank you for listening.

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I'm talking today about when not to negotiate.

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I'm talking about when not to negotiate.

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And I want to say that, you know, there are very few reasons why you shouldn't negotiate.

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You shouldn't negotiate everything.

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Even if you hate the job, you're on your way out.

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You're like, I can't stand this place anymore.

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As long as you're still there.

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Even if there are just a few more months left to your exit, you should still negotiate.

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And the reason you negotiate is to make it better for yourself.

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As long as you are still in a location, you should tailor it to you to the best of your

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ability.

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And I think there are so many reasons to negotiate.

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You should negotiate because the more you enjoy the job, the better you do in the job

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and the more people enjoy you in that position.

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If you are sad and miserable, people can tell they don't like you in the position.

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You don't like yourself in the position.

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So to be honest, you negotiate for you and for everybody around you.

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You negotiate so that everybody can enjoy you in the role in which you are.

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And it's important for you to negotiate because your goal is to tailor your career to meet

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your needs and to serve your purposes.

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And yes, there might be some give and take, but really you're creating and crafting a

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career that's for you.

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And many times people are like, well, don't be selfish.

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And I'm not sure where that comes from, because if you are not thriving, then nobody wins.

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And so in a sense, it's like if being selfish means that one, you enjoy your career, two,

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the people around you enjoy the fact that you are thriving in your career and your patients

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win, then maybe you should be selfish.

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But if being unselfish means that you hate the work you're doing, people think you're

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miserable and cynical and your patients just don't understand why this doctor is so cynical,

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then unselfish may not be the way to go.

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And I really recommend negotiating everything because sometimes we have the sense that nobody

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will do what we think we want them to do for us, but they don't know.

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Because they don't know they can't act to meet our needs.

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And when we don't ask, then we don't get what we don't ask for and we're miserable.

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And usually when we don't ask and we don't get what we don't ask for, we're upset at

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the people who didn't give it to us.

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It's like, well, why should they be in your minds and how can they be in your minds to

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know exactly what you want?

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And everybody doesn't want the same thing.

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So sometimes there's a sense we have that, well, if I asked for this, then what if everybody

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asked for it?

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Well, everybody is not asking for it.

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Is it what you need?

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Well, go for it.

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You should go for what you need.

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Because if there is one thing that makes you unhappy and you can fix it, and usually it's

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not that big a deal to fix it, then you should definitely go for it.

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Okay, so I was talking about all the reasons you should negotiate, but this particular

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episode is really about why situations you get into where you should think about not

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negotiating, you should actually walk away.

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And I'm here to talk about five reasons why you shouldn't negotiate.

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And I will say that I've been in a situation at work once where I think it wasn't that

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I wasn't going to negotiate anymore.

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It was that negotiating for years had not helped me move forward in the way I wanted

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to move forward.

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And I think I finally got to a place where I recognized that, hmm, this environment is

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not going to help me move forward.

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And then it was time to stop negotiating the environment.

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And it was time instead to actually move on to a different environment.

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So anyway, so I'm going to talk about five reasons when not to negotiate a job, when

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not to negotiate a situation.

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And the very first one is when the only benefit you see is monetary.

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When all that is attractive to you about the position is the money.

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And the only thing you can think of is that, well, the pay is good, exactly in that way,

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where you're like, oh, well, I guess the pay is good.

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Or when you were like, no, I don't want this position.

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I don't want this job.

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And then they increased the amount by like $50,000.

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And you're like, well, I didn't want it.

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But at $50,000 more, maybe.

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But the only thing that is attractive to you about the role is that there's a boatload

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of money that comes with it.

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Think carefully.

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Think carefully.

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Because there is really a need to fulfill purpose for us as clinician scientists.

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There is a need to really make a difference.

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There's a need to feel like you're contributing in some way.

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And yes, financial need is necessary.

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And for those of you who are on the road to retiring early, absolutely, you want to make

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more money.

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You don't want to spend any more time working than you absolutely need to.

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But the reality is that money is motivating up to a certain amount.

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And beyond that, it's demotivating, or it can be.

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And what really fulfills you in your work is the work you do, the meaning it has, the

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value it contributes, and how it helps you to actualize yourself, right?

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To kind of continue on the journey of growth and self-discovery.

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And if the position that's before you doesn't give you any of that, but all it gives you

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is a couple more zeros, then consider carefully if that's what you want to do.

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And sometimes I'll hear people saying, well, I'll just go for it and just do it for a little

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while.

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I'll take this soul-sucking, soul-crunching job and do it for two years.

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And then by the end of it, I'll have made so much money.

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And I think it's important to think about the opportunity cost, the opportunity cost

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of what else could you be doing if you were not doing this opportunity that only serves

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you in terms of its monetary gain?

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How much could you accomplish?

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How much else could you point to that you've done or maybe more family time that you've

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had or more trips that you've taken if you were not spending two years of your life just

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making a lot of money?

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So monetary benefit is important and you should absolutely work for the maximum amount of

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money you can get for the same amount of work that you do.

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But if the only benefit you see in the position before you is that, well, the money is good,

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then you should reconsider.

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You should reconsider looking for another opportunity.

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It's your best alternative to a negotiated agreement.

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It's like, walk away.

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Please walk away.

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The second thing is along the same lines, if you don't see growth opportunities, I will

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tell you that one thing that we thrive on as clinicians is growth.

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And I want to say it's a drug I feel like we've been taking since we were first in medical

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school.

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So I don't know if you remember when you crossed over from the position of undergraduate looking

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to get into medical school to medical school student, right?

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It was just an amazing crossover.

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And then all of a sudden it was like someone turned on a fire hose and just started pouring

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it in your face and saying, drink, drink, drink.

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I mean, it was just a ton of knowledge.

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But how amazing and gratifying when you finally walked onto the wards and you started caring

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for patients.

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Oh my goodness, that was so good.

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Just how all of a sudden all of that knowledge became something that was actionable and actually

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allowed you to start to do the thing that you came to medical school to do.

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And then you got into residency and wow, you went from the sub-I who kind of was doing

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a good job to really being the doctor.

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The one that people call doctor, the patient is cutting.

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It's like all of a sudden it's all on you.

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How exhilarating.

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And then you move from your intern year and then you start leading a team and you start

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being the one to tell other interns how to move forward.

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And you start being the one kind of to take charge.

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And then you get to your third year of residency and all of a sudden you're leading a team.

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And whether the attending is there or not, you've got the team.

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Oh my goodness, it's so awesome.

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And so what I describe is that throughout your training in medical school, residency

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and beyond, you continue to expand in a way that's just incredible.

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You're growing at an alarming rate.

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It's just the change from year to year is amazing.

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It's like exponential growth.

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And then you take a job where there are no growth opportunities.

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Yeah, the money will be good.

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See number one.

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But if there's nowhere to grow to, if there's no challenge to take on, then it becomes not

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a great opportunity for you.

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And you got to see the growth potential.

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You can't just say, well, I'll just do this job day in and day out for the next 20 years

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of my life.

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As long as the pay is good, I can do it.

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I will say no, you are someone who's used to growing, who's used to expansion.

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And it's important for you to continue to seek growth opportunities as you pursue opportunities

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for your career.

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So if you don't see growth opportunities, don't like the shiny stuff, you know, the

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perks, the, the passives to the golf club, the golf club.

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Don't don't take all the stuff.

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If you don't see opportunities for your own growth within that role.

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The next thing, number three is when nothing about the position appeals to you.

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Now this is especially important for my people who just feel the sense of obligation.

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Well, the work has to be done.

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If I don't take it, no one's going to take it.

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If I don't step up to the plate, well, no patients will be taken care of.

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If I don't show up, nothing will work.

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And you know, in reality, none of it is true.

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If you don't show up, somebody else will show up.

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And if nobody shows up, they'll kind of figure out a way to make it work.

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It's the way we've always done things.

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And if you're thinking, well, if you don't show up, nobody will take care of the patient.

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Obviously, there will always be someone to take care of the patient.

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And you're showing up is great.

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But if you don't show up, we keep looking until we can find someone who can do that.

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And so don't ever take a role out of obligation.

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Don't negotiate a role that you don't want.

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The moment you get into a situation, you're like, no, no, definitely not for me.

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Don't say, well, if I don't take it, nobody else will.

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I really, I really got to do this for the patients.

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And I love that we are about advancing patient care.

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But it is important to recognize that you've really got to find something appealing about

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the position.

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And if you can't, then maybe it's not for you.

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And it's OK not to negotiate it.

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It's OK to agree that maybe this is not for me.

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Now, if you see things that you like and you're like, I wish I could have more of that.

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But they're not giving me very much of that, that may be an opportunity to negotiate.

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Because it's like, how can you expand the thing you see that you like?

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That's an opportunity.

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But when you see nothing that you like about the role and all you're thinking about is,

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well, I guess I'll just fulfill my obligation, then you definitely want to pause and ask

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yourself, should you be negotiating this thing that you don't even like?

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Number four is a close sister of that, when the thought of working in that environment

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fills you with dread.

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I don't know if you've ever experienced this.

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When you've gone to a situation and for whatever reason you can't even put your finger on it,

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you're like, I'm not sure this place is for me.

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And there's just this sense of like, uh-uh.

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And it's different things that might cause you to feel that way.

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I will tell you, I had one experience that was kind of interesting.

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I was doing an interview and as part of interview day, you got a picture made of it, a picture

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made of you and that was your name badge, which is kind of cool.

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It's automated.

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And anyway, so I went to this place and I stood in line to take my picture.

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And I kid you not, I kid you not, when the picture came out, I was smiling and all you

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could see were my teeth.

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So I don't know what was happening with the exposure of the picture, what the picture

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was set to, but the woman looked at the picture.

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She was like, oh great.

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And she slapped the badge on me.

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And I looked at it and I have to tell you that that wasn't the reason I didn't want

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to go to that place.

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But I tell you that it told me something I couldn't put my finger on.

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I was like, how did you just take a picture of me?

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The exposure is so bad, you actually can't even make out my features.

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You can only make out my teeth.

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And you looked at that and you said, yeah, this is great.

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You should take this badge.

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And maybe in that moment I should have said, hey, can we take another picture so you can

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see me?

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I think what it said to me was that it didn't matter.

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Is that this thing that was important to me because it's got my facial features on it,

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right?

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And I'm wearing it all about for this whole interview day.

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It was so not important.

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And then what was the point of doing it at all?

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So immediately I just had the sense that something was wrong.

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You know when you can't put your finger on it?

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But there's this sense of like, no, no, definitely no.

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I mean, it's a very funny thing.

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It was my first experience of that day.

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And I remember feeling this place, it's not for me.

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Anyway, so if you have dread, for whatever reason, you can't put your finger on it, you're

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not sure.

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That's just the sense of like, this is a great place.

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I should love it, but I don't love it.

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Pay attention to that.

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Don't negotiate it.

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Just pay attention to it.

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The fifth is kind of similar.

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The fifth has to do with when you have the feeling in your gut that all is not well.

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There's just this feeling and maybe it's kind of like a brother to them before.

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There's this feeling that you have that this is not okay.

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And you can't place it.

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You're like, well, I should love this program director.

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I should love the people around me.

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I should love the division chief.

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I should love my colleagues, but somehow they can't put my finger on what bothers me here.

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And I want to say that the reason you really want to pay attention to that is because honestly,

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as clinicians, as physicians, if our training was any good, there's a big disconnect between

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how we feel, what we really want, and the situation that is in front of us.

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Because we're very used to kind of sacrificing and putting other people ahead of us and just

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maintaining obligations.

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And so whenever we catch this feeling of something is off somewhere, we really do need to pay

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attention to that and sit with it and try to answer the question of why that is.

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Don't say, well, let me just try to work this, request this that will make it better.

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Because what's going to happen over time is that whatever is holding you back is in your

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subconscious mind.

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And over time, it's going to become very clear to you what that thing is.

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And then you really wish you had listened.

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And it's okay.

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It's okay if that happens to you because ultimately, it's never too late to change your mind and

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do the right thing.

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It's never too late.

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But if you have, if you have a feeling in your gut that something is off here, and you

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definitely want to make sure that you pay attention to that, don't just keep the negotiation

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going, but you want to pause and make sure that you clarify any feelings that need to

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be addressed.

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All right.

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So those are five reasons when not to negotiate.

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Number one is when the only benefit you can see is monetary.

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It doesn't matter how much money they give you.

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If it's not, if there's no other benefit other than money, it's not going to be the place

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for you.

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Number two, when you don't see growth opportunities, you're a person who is used to growing and

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expanding and anything less, anything short will frustrate you in your job.

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And so if you don't see growth opportunities, don't even negotiate it.

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There's nothing else that really will stimulate you about your work if there's no growth opportunity.

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Number three is when there's nothing about the position that appeals to you, you just

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can't find a thing to say, wow, this is for me.

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Don't negotiate that.

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When the thought of working in the environment fills you with dread, when the thought of

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working in the environment fills you with dread, you know it's time to not negotiate.

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And finally, when you have the feeling in your gut that all is not well, something is

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wrong here and you want to pay attention to any feelings you have and don't just say,

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oh, suck it up.

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Actually pause and sit with it and ask yourself, what is it about this place that makes me

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feel the way I do and recognize that you don't have to negotiate.

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You can walk away and you will land on your feet because as a physician you are highly

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trained.

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You've got a lot of other skills that you can use even if this one position doesn't

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work out exactly as it's supposed to.

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All right.

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So I want to just remind you that abundance is a thing that we have that's all around

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us.

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It's not scarcity, it's abundance.

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And I would encourage you to just fill your mind with just the recognition that if this

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particular opportunity before you is not for you, that's okay.

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Another opportunity will open up that has your name on it.

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All right.

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It's been a pleasure talking with you today.

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Thank you for listening.

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I look forward to talking with you again the next time.

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Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast where academic

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clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program whether or not they have

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a mentor.

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If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

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Someone else needs to hear it.

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So take a minute right now and share it.

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As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

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of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.