1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills 2 00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260 to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 3 00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340 As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients. 4 00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380 When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find 5 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780 that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research 6 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200 program. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480 Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit. 8 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580 However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs. 9 00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200 For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800 the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,040 Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene. 12 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,560 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast. 13 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,560 I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be talking with you today. 14 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:13,560 I want to thank you for tuning in, and I am talking today about publications. 15 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:14,560 Are they even necessary? 16 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:19,120 Do you really need publications in this academic career? 17 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,560 What is this thing about publications? 18 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:28,160 I want to talk about them because, you know, have you ever heard the phrase publish or 19 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:29,160 perish? 20 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,080 I don't know where that came from. 21 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,880 I'm sure there's a great origin story, but already I hear it and I'm like, really, publish 22 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:36,880 or perish? 23 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:37,880 What does that even really mean? 24 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,000 Are you really going to perish if you don't publish? 25 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:48,560 Yes, it does allude to the fact that in academic environments, publications are so valued, 26 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,560 and if you don't publish, then there's just the sense that you don't belong, and maybe 27 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,200 you may not be promoted like you'd want to. 28 00:01:55,200 --> 00:02:01,560 So yeah, there are some consequences of not having publications, but do you die? 29 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:02,560 No. 30 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,040 Your life continues. 31 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,320 Anyway, so I'm just telling you that publish or perish is not real, but, you know, in not 32 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,240 in the sense of the word of like actual perishing. 33 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:18,520 Anyway, I digress, but I think it's important to talk about publications because, wow, they're 34 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:24,960 so much anxiety and dread and worry and fear that's around publications sometimes. 35 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:30,120 And to be honest, there's so much anxiety and pressure over publications that people 36 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,440 are making stuff up just to publish. 37 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,680 And I want to talk about publications. 38 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:41,920 I want to talk about it, not from the perspective of, oh my gosh, I'm going to advance my career 39 00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:48,160 and I'm going to be promoted or I'll be able to, you know, gain a higher salary because 40 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:49,520 I have this new promotion. 41 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,280 I'm not going to talk about it from that perspective. 42 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:57,640 I think enough people talk about publications from the perspective of currency, of academia, 43 00:02:57,640 --> 00:03:00,520 why it's needed for promotion and tenure. 44 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,960 And I think all of that is great. 45 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,720 It's just not very motivating. 46 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,200 Like yeah, publish because if you don't publish, you can't be promoted. 47 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,400 That just to me is not very motivating. 48 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,760 It's like, who says I want to be promoted? 49 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:18,120 I mean, you do, but it's like the connection between publication and promotion is so far 50 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,720 you know, it's like, okay, how do you make the connection today? 51 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,920 I mean, it's far, right? 52 00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:29,160 You start your faculty career job now and in six years you need to have published enough 53 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:30,680 to be able to be promoted. 54 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,280 Maybe it's seven years for some of you, eight, nine. 55 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,800 You got to have published enough to be promoted, but what's going to sustain you today other 56 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:38,800 than this stick? 57 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:44,280 I mean, I'm sorry, this carrot on a stick in the far future that, you know, eventually 58 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,360 you'll get there and maybe you'll be promoted. 59 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,200 It sustains you today. 60 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,120 What are the benefits of publication right this moment? 61 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,720 And the reason it's important is because in order to succeed at any goal, you really do 62 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,120 have to break it down into its small steps and enjoy the journey. 63 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:01,680 You got to enjoy the journey. 64 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,920 And if you don't enjoy the journey, wow, it's going to be really hard to sustain it over 65 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:06,920 the long term. 66 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:11,640 You might be able to do it at a frenzied pace for a month, two months, three months. 67 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:17,880 Maybe you could get to 12 months, but you're not going to sustain a 30 to 40 year career, 68 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,720 God helping you live long, long, long, right? 69 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,280 God helping you live a long life. 70 00:04:22,280 --> 00:04:27,400 You're not going to sustain that kind of frenzied energy over a long career. 71 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,260 And you know, honestly, some people are able to sustain the frenzied energy over a six 72 00:04:31,260 --> 00:04:32,260 year career. 73 00:04:32,260 --> 00:04:37,040 And then they get tenure and they're like, I'm done, no more publications. 74 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:42,480 And that kind of is a sad thing because, you know, it's not about just promotion and tenure. 75 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,600 Please people hear me. 76 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,200 Publications are not just about getting promoted. 77 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:52,720 And if you just are working, working, working to churn out publications just so you can 78 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:57,120 get promoted, I would like you to consider whether you are in the right career, whether 79 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,060 this is what you really want to be doing. 80 00:05:00,060 --> 00:05:08,200 Because your academic journey, your faculty journey is not about, you know, brownie points 81 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,840 or stars or gold stars or rewards. 82 00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:17,780 It really is about building a career that is satisfying to you, that you're able to 83 00:05:17,780 --> 00:05:20,800 look back on and say, wow, this was the career I had. 84 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,520 Look at all the impact I made. 85 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,040 And publications are part of that impact. 86 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:32,520 But I do want to talk today about a couple of reasons why you should consider publishing. 87 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,440 And I'm talking about reasons that benefit you today. 88 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:42,040 And I hope that if you are not kind of already working to get some of your ideas out and 89 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,560 getting them published, I encourage you to definitely do that. 90 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,920 Or if you are and you're discouraged and you're like, oh, I don't want to do this anywhere. 91 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:50,920 This is too hard. 92 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,280 I just want to encourage you again that it is really worth doing. 93 00:05:55,280 --> 00:06:00,680 And I want to give you five reasons to think about when it comes to publishing. 94 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,240 The first thing is growth of your personal knowledge. 95 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,400 And I will say that as physicians, we are full of knowledge, right? 96 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,640 We went through medical school and the whole process of medical school was to pump your 97 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:18,720 head full of knowledge, at least the first two years were. 98 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,640 And half of that time is spent pouring knowledge into your head. 99 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,680 And the other half is spent mopping the knowledge off the floor and trying to get it back in 100 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,480 your head because clearly it's not sticking. 101 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:35,940 But when you're on the wards as a third and a fourth year, second year for some of you, 102 00:06:35,940 --> 00:06:43,020 you recognize that a lot of that information does stay because it's knowledge you need 103 00:06:43,020 --> 00:06:45,340 to advance patient care. 104 00:06:45,340 --> 00:06:51,640 But when you start to take care of patients, when you move in medical school from trying 105 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:56,480 to memorize all these facts to actually caring for patients, the facts stick better in the 106 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,680 context of actually taking care of the patient. 107 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:04,160 It's like, oh, the pathophysiology of renal failure makes sense because I've cared for 108 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:05,840 a patient with renal failure. 109 00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:07,880 I've kind of seen it unfold. 110 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,000 It's not just the thing in the textbook I've memorized. 111 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,320 It's the patient experience that I had. 112 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:17,960 You remember how that knowledge struck better when you had the experiential knowledge? 113 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:18,960 Yes. 114 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:23,080 And when you're writing a publication, writing manuscripts for publication is the same thing. 115 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:29,320 It's that you have this knowledge, but when you actually have to go dig up references 116 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:35,000 and figure out how to put it together in a cogent way in a manuscript format and submit 117 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,160 it for publication, you really do grow in your personal knowledge. 118 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:44,440 You become someone who has knowledge on this topic because you've written about it. 119 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:45,560 And it's just so powerful. 120 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,440 It's the reason why when people are looking for speakers, they go looking for people who've 121 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,000 published on things because it means these are people who are reading the literature 122 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,440 and are well versed with what's going on with this topic. 123 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,400 They have knowledge because they've had to write about the topic. 124 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,800 And so writing about a topic does give you knowledge. 125 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,440 It helps you advance. 126 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:05,640 And it's really awesome. 127 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,760 I don't know about you, but you know, the first year of medical school was the most 128 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:10,760 frustrating year. 129 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,560 We were learning so much and it's like, what is the point of all this knowledge? 130 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,480 And can my brain take any more? 131 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,480 And then when I finally got to the words, it was like, oh my gosh, this is so awesome. 132 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,320 I'm so glad I'm learning all the things I'm learning because of all the people I'm able 133 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:25,320 to help. 134 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,120 It is so incredible. 135 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:32,240 It's that same personal satisfaction with knowledge that's actionable, with knowledge 136 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,000 that helps people move forward. 137 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,280 Personal knowledge is one of the gifts of writing manuscripts for publication. 138 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,520 And I want to invite you to do it because yeah, you know, you see all these patients, 139 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,240 but when you have to put into words and when you have to like look in the literature and 140 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,760 say, okay, where does this fit relative to what people are saying? 141 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,640 How is this different from what the literature is saying? 142 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,400 It really enhances your knowledge base. 143 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:57,400 It is so awesome. 144 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,720 It is so personally satisfying. 145 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:06,220 And I invite you, if you have not kind of like just, you know, enjoyed the experience 146 00:09:06,220 --> 00:09:08,000 of kind of knowledge of writing. 147 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:13,360 I mean, the experience of like growing in your knowledge as you write, it's absolutely 148 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,600 worth it and I recommend it. 149 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,560 Okay, so personal knowledge is one of the gifts of publishing. 150 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:24,320 The second is conversation with the scientific community. 151 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:28,720 And I'm keeping it positive here because conversation with the scientific community actually also 152 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,720 refers to peer review, but I'm not really talking about peer review right now. 153 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:37,440 I'm talking about what you have to do to be able to actually write a manuscript for publication. 154 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:38,800 You need to know the literature. 155 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,520 Okay, you don't have to know everything, but you need to know a broad swath of the literature 156 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,400 related to your topic that you're publishing on. 157 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:51,800 So you are having a conversation with other scientists indirectly through their work, 158 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:52,800 right? 159 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,800 You go and you say, well, we found this amazing thing. 160 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,680 It's like great, good for you. 161 00:09:56,680 --> 00:09:59,640 How does it converse with what's already in the literature? 162 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:01,520 Like how does it compare? 163 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:02,840 Is this the same? 164 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:03,960 Is it different? 165 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:05,640 What's new about your work? 166 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:06,720 What's novel? 167 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,200 What's interesting? 168 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,320 Tell us about your work in light of everything that's going on. 169 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:12,320 And it's so important. 170 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,720 It's the reason why when we write manuscripts for publication, we have all this list of 171 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:17,600 citations, right? 172 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,040 Because we've looked up other papers. 173 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:20,800 I hope you're not just putting numbers on the page. 174 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,720 I hope you've actually looked at these citations. 175 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,680 But you really are in conversation with the scientific community, with other people through 176 00:10:26,680 --> 00:10:27,680 their work. 177 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:29,360 That's a beautiful thing. 178 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,680 It's a beautiful thing because science doesn't happen in a vacuum. 179 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:39,480 And our data is totally impartial, but the way we interpret the data is not, right? 180 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,520 I am a biased person interpreting my data in a biased way. 181 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:44,880 The data is not biased. 182 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,800 My interpretation of the data is biased. 183 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,940 And the question is, is it biased toward the way it's reported in the literature? 184 00:10:51,940 --> 00:10:53,920 Was it biased against it? 185 00:10:53,920 --> 00:11:00,480 And so, being in conversation with the literature allows you to sort that out and talk about 186 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:01,480 it. 187 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:06,480 And maybe that at the end, you're sticking with your biases as opposed to what's like, 188 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,100 where the literature is leading you. 189 00:11:08,100 --> 00:11:11,760 And that's fine, but you're going to be explicit and you're going to state it. 190 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,400 You're going to be explicit about it. 191 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,120 And then you're going to get past the reviewers, right? 192 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:16,600 But this is not about the reviewers. 193 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,680 So I'm not talking about that kind of science communication today. 194 00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:25,120 But it's a great conversation because the work you do, the patients you see, none of 195 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:26,720 it is happening in a vacuum. 196 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:31,720 And so the opportunity to converse with the scientific community is amazing. 197 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,400 It's great because it enhances you. 198 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:39,040 It's not just knowledge that you're growing in. 199 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:46,600 It's also growing in the discourse and the ability to communicate your work scientifically. 200 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:47,600 And that's really awesome. 201 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,120 Number three is that you're growing in skills. 202 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:56,400 So we've talked about the growth as far as like knowledge growth, the growth as far as 203 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,560 knowing how to converse with the scientific community through the work of others who have 204 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:04,720 come before you, but also growing in the skill of writing. 205 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:09,400 Now I will tell you that there are many scientific manuscripts that I read and I'm like, okay, 206 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,120 didn't understand exactly what they did, but it sounds really cool. 207 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:20,240 But you know, the more you do it and the more seasoned journals, I'll call them seasoned 208 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:25,080 journals that you go after, the higher the quality of your writing needs to be, the higher 209 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:30,440 the quality of your synthesis, the higher the quality of the work that you pull together. 210 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:31,740 And so it challenges you. 211 00:12:31,740 --> 00:12:34,520 It challenges you to grow in skill. 212 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,920 It challenges you to grow in quality. 213 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:45,000 It challenges you to do the case reports, but then move beyond the case reports to case 214 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:52,600 series and then move beyond that to clinical studies or to actual clinical trials, to different 215 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:53,600 things. 216 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,080 So you're not really understanding what your area of research is, but it really helps you 217 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:01,520 grow in skill because writing a manuscript is not just about the writing, which is amazing 218 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,360 because you're growing your writing skills and your science communication. 219 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:05,360 That's awesome. 220 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,440 But it's also about all the skills you have to grow in to be able to have something to 221 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,480 put down on the manuscript, right? 222 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,840 You've got to first of all, do the work or make the observation or do the analysis before 223 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:22,760 you now say, oh, I'm going to put it on paper and I'm going to submit it as a manuscript. 224 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:28,800 And the fact that you are in the process of writing and publishing regularly allows you 225 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:34,800 to keep looking for opportunities to continue to grow things that you can put on paper and 226 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,560 share with the scientific community. 227 00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:40,360 So it's really great because it helps you grow in your research skills. 228 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,280 It helps you grow in your writing as well. 229 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,680 And I call it a keystone habit. 230 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:50,480 And so a keystone habit comes from Charles Duhigg, the power of habit, where there's 231 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,320 one habit you start doing that changes everything else around you. 232 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,960 For example, you start exercising and all of a sudden you change the way you eat. 233 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,000 So it's a keystone habit. 234 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,320 When you start to write for publications, it's a keystone habit because the more you 235 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,640 write and publish, the more you look for it to write and publish. 236 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:16,400 So it's kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy, so to speak, or feedback loop really of continuing 237 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:22,880 to help you create what is needed for the next manuscript and then the next manuscript 238 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:24,560 and then the next one after that. 239 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,440 So it really does help you grow in your skills. 240 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,800 The next one, which is number four, is expertise. 241 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,560 Okay, you're the one writing about it. 242 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:36,560 You are the expert. 243 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:41,400 You know, recently I wrote a manuscript and I wrote the manuscript because I was part 244 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,400 of the guidelines writing committee for the American Society for Atheresis. 245 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:50,000 And as part of that, I created, you know, I developed one of their new fact sheets. 246 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,720 And having put in all that energy, I remember thinking, I was like, there is no way this 247 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,440 is not going to become a review paper. 248 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:56,440 There's just no way. 249 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:00,560 I mean, I mean, we were clearly writing the guidelines, so that was its own paper. 250 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:05,860 But I felt like so much work had gone into this new fact sheet that it needed to become 251 00:15:05,860 --> 00:15:07,720 its own review paper. 252 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:13,240 And so I pulled the work together and I wrote it and I submitted it and it was, you know, 253 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:14,520 accepted and it was published. 254 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,580 And then all of a sudden people start coming out of the woodworks asking me to review papers 255 00:15:18,580 --> 00:15:20,280 that are similar. 256 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,040 And many times I had to say, but no, this is not my area of expertise. 257 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,800 I mean, well, this is not my area of expertise. 258 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,560 They're like, wait a minute, but you wrote about it. 259 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:38,000 Yeah, but yeah, but how do you convince people that you're not the expert after you've just 260 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,400 written one paper? 261 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,280 Very hard to do. 262 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:42,600 Because you know what? 263 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:47,240 It is a rare topic and you are one of very few people who've written about it. 264 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,560 And now everybody wants to hear your opinion. 265 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,480 And to be honest, you kind of are the expert. 266 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,600 The person who writes about it is the expert because they're the ones thinking about it 267 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,560 in ways that nobody else is thinking about it. 268 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:05,120 And so if you want to become an expert, if you want to become the expert, the go-to expert, 269 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:10,040 you choose one area and you're right in it and you're right in it and you're right in 270 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:14,200 this field until you are tired of writing in this field. 271 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,560 You'll never get tired because you'll always find new things to write about. 272 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,160 But you become the expert. 273 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,920 That's how you become the expert, by writing about things. 274 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,480 And so it's a great thing to grow in expertise. 275 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,440 And it's a great thing to grow in expertise because the next time you go around to writing 276 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:34,900 on the same topic, you're a different person coming to this second piece of writing than 277 00:16:34,900 --> 00:16:37,920 you were the first time you came to this space. 278 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:42,960 And you now have some understanding under your belt of this field that you didn't have 279 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:43,960 the first time. 280 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,280 And then multiply that by 20, multiply that by 30. 281 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:57,360 Now 30 papers later, you have nuances of understanding, nuanced understanding that nobody else has 282 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,240 because you are the expert writing in this space. 283 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:09,520 And so expertise is one of the gifts of writing for publication. 284 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:14,200 The last one, number five, is raising the next generation. 285 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,360 When you first start out, you want to be first author on everything. 286 00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:21,960 And when you can't be first author on everything, you're like, well, can I be co-first author? 287 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:28,480 And it's important, it's necessary in our field because there are some fields where 288 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,440 being first does not necessarily mean you did everything. 289 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,920 Anyway, the different fields have different conventions. 290 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:41,600 But in my field, as a clinician scientist, the first author is usually the one who's 291 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,800 done the bulk of the work and then they're working together with the senior author. 292 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,640 So there is a convention where the first author is kind of doing the most work. 293 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,660 And so when you first get started, you are the one doing the most work and you're mostly 294 00:17:53,660 --> 00:17:56,720 doing it in collaboration with a mentor. 295 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:02,320 But as you advance, then you start to move. 296 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:09,360 And you have other people work with you and you start to move to the place of being the 297 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:13,640 senior person, the last author on the list. 298 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:18,120 And that's awesome because it means you are now mentoring another generation to write 299 00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:19,600 and publish. 300 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:24,400 And it's so powerful, it's so beautiful because, you know, by yourself, you can only write 301 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:30,320 so much, but the moment you start mentoring others to write manuscripts, that's so awesome 302 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:36,720 because you can really, you know, triple your impact, quadruple your impact because now 303 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:43,000 you have other people that you are writing through or you are mentoring to write with. 304 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,000 And it's so beautiful, it's so awesome. 305 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:49,480 Now, the thing about that is that you are going to have to put in work to help bring 306 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:54,060 them up to the excellence with which you already write. 307 00:18:54,060 --> 00:18:57,180 You get good at writing when you've written a couple of times, right? 308 00:18:57,180 --> 00:19:01,840 You get good at synthesizing the literature and writing the discussion. 309 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,320 And when a younger person, a trainee now comes to you and says, hey, I want to write a paper 310 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,440 with you, you're good at that stuff because you've done it. 311 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,200 But now you have to teach them and you've got to be patient and you've got to help them, 312 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,200 you know, go through and do a great job. 313 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:20,080 It's a commitment, it's a challenge, but it's also really rewarding. 314 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:24,240 You're raising the next generation of scientists and that's really awesome. 315 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,840 But you don't get to do that until you've put in the work of writing manuscripts for 316 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,360 publication to yourself, until you've put in the work of going through reviewers and 317 00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:37,640 knowing how the reviewers will come at your manuscript and knowing how to respond to the 318 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:38,640 reviewers. 319 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:44,780 You don't get to lead others in doing this work until you've done it well. 320 00:19:44,780 --> 00:19:49,700 And so that's a beautiful thing that as you are, if you are still kind of at the place 321 00:19:49,700 --> 00:19:55,500 where you are writing as first author, most of the time, just recognize that you are building 322 00:19:55,500 --> 00:19:59,520 a skill set that you're going to pass on to another generation of scientists. 323 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,520 And that's a really, really incredible thing. 324 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:09,160 Okay, so I've given you five reasons, five reasons why you should enjoy writing manuscripts 325 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:10,680 for publication today. 326 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,880 Don't wait until promotion and tenure six years from now. 327 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:14,880 Enjoy it today. 328 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:20,680 And those five reasons are personal knowledge, conversation with the scientific community 329 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:26,280 indirectly through their writing, growth in skills, not just the skills for writing, but 330 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:30,960 also the skills for doing the research, expertise because hey, you're writing about it. 331 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,360 Now you know more than everybody else than reason next generation, which I think may 332 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:39,320 be the most beautiful thing about writing for me today. 333 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:44,400 All right, if that has been helpful to you, I want to invite you to please leave a review 334 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:45,400 on our website. 335 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,120 If you've been listening and you've enjoyed any of these podcasts, episodes, and they've 336 00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:52,760 been helpful to you, I want to invite you to please leave a review because it helps 337 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:53,760 people find us. 338 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:59,720 It helps people, it helps validate the podcast as a source of good information. 339 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:04,880 What do you do when you go and you want to buy something on say a merchant like Amazon, 340 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,840 you look at the reviews, like is this worth buying? 341 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:09,600 Is this worth listening to? 342 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,880 And so I invite you if you are enjoying this episode or if you've enjoyed other episodes 343 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:20,240 that we've done to leave us a five star review and I appreciate you in advance for doing 344 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:21,240 that. 345 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:25,200 All right, it's been a pleasure talking with you today and thank you for taking the time 346 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:37,880 to listen and I look forward to talking with you again the next time. 347 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:43,240 Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast where academic 348 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:49,080 clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program whether or not they have 349 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:50,080 a mentor. 350 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:56,000 If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself. 351 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,880 Someone else needs to hear it. 352 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,920 So take a minute right now and share it. 353 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:07,400 As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation 354 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:13,360 of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.