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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene

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Hello everyone.

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.

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I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be talking with you today.

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I want to thank you for taking the time to tune in and to listen to today's episode.

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We're going to talk about early career faculty becoming mentors as soon as possible, and

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I think it's so important because mentoring is part of your mentor journey.

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So yes, your early career, somebody else is mentoring you, and you get to mentor too.

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And the reason you want to get to mentor as early as possible is because as you grow as

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someone who's mentoring others, then you become better as a mentee, and you're able to create

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space for others while others are creating space for you.

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So it's so important to be a mentor.

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I will tell you that for the longest time in my career, I always felt like I couldn't

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find the right mentor.

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It was like, oh, if only this person would do this, and if only this person would do

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that.

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And I was just looking for a mentor who would be everything to me.

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And yes, that was kind of short-sighted of me.

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But when I finally, finally started seeing myself as a mentor, it changed my experience.

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And I think I recognized that instead of having this neediness of, oh, I need someone who

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can help me, I need someone who can help me, the moment I started to help someone else,

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it was like I was taking ownership of the skills I already had.

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Because in order to help move someone forward, you have to acknowledge that you have what

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it takes to help them move forward, or that at least you've acquired some skills along

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the way such that you are able to help them.

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So becoming a mentor is actually an important career development or professional development

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experience.

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And I just want to encourage you that the earlier you can become a mentor to someone

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else, the better.

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If you say, wait a minute, I'm just a fellow, it's great.

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You're a fellow, you can mentor residents and medical students.

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You're like, wait, I'm early career faculty.

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I don't even know where I'm going.

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It's like, great.

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Your early career faculty, you can mentor med students, residents, and fellows.

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So no matter where you are on the pathway to becoming a clinician scientist, there's

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always someone behind you that you can reach out and help up.

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And I want to talk to you about five ways to grow in your mentoring capabilities as

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an early career faculty.

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Okay.

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In order to be a mentor, you've got to accept your knowledge and expertise.

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You have to.

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It's absolutely important.

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And one of the challenges is when you are looking for mentors, sometimes you're coming

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at it with this deficit mindset, like, oh, I don't have X, Y, Z skill.

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And that mentor has all these skills.

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And if I could just connect with this mentor, then my life would be better.

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And you're always, you tend to look at yourself from the perspective of a deficit.

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I don't have enough.

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I don't have enough.

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Somebody else has what I don't have.

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And it can be limiting.

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It can be limiting.

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But the moment you step out and you say, I'm going to mentor someone else, you first of

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all have to acknowledge, what do you have to give them?

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And the moment you start to think about what you have to give them, you find that you've

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got so much to give them.

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Holy cow.

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You've learned a lot along the journey.

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And so of course you can be a mentor.

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So that's one half of the equation.

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The other half is it becomes clear what you don't know.

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When they ask you questions or they need help in a certain direction, it becomes an opportunity

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for you to acquire knowledge and expertise to help them move forward.

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And it's so awesome because as you're moving them forward, they're moving your research

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program forward because you're a mentor that they're working with.

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But it's so helpful because it allows you to acquire, to actually to accept and acknowledge

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the expertise you already have, and then to figure out what your gaps are and what additional

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knowledge and expertise you need to go after.

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And so it allows you to improve your self-awareness and your self-gratitude.

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I don't know if that's the right term.

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It allows you to have a good sense of self-esteem about how far you've come because you're able

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to acknowledge what you've done and how you can help someone else.

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And so it allows you to both acknowledge your knowledge and expertise and then identify

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gaps in which you can grow.

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So it's an important personal development activity to mentor someone else.

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And I hope that you will take it.

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You'll take the challenge and you'll look to it.

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Next thing it helps you do is it helps you become a better listener.

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If you wait until you're like a senior person to try to do all this mentoring, then sometimes

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you may have this fallacy that you know everything and the people who just listen to you talk

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for hours and hours and hours and hours on end.

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But if you start early, especially where there are a lot of things you actually do not know,

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it helps you come at it from a perspective of humility.

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It's like, you know what?

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I don't know.

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I don't know very much.

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And when you don't know, the best thing to do is to find out, is to ask questions.

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And I think something that's so important and when we think about our own mentoring

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journey is it's not helpful when people are autobiographical, when people are autobiographical,

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and they say, well, this is my life story and this is how I did it and look at how amazing

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I was and I took this opportunity.

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It's great, but it's not as helpful as when people create space for you to share your

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hopes, your expectations, your aspirations, your dreams, because then what it allows you

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to do is to clarify how your connection, your intersection with them helps you move forward.

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But where people don't create that space for you and they're always telling you what to

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do or giving you advice, it doesn't always help you grow in the way you need to grow.

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And sometimes you may veer off a path that you really want to go on because you don't

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want to disappoint someone.

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And so when you start out early, you don't have as much of that.

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I mean, I hope you don't or I hope you don't, you know, come across as feeling arrogant

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like, well, I've learned it all.

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You probably are able to come from a better place of humility.

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And part of that humility is to ask, hey, how can I help you?

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What do you need?

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What questions still remain?

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What do you need?

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And what you end up having is an opportunity to become a great listener, someone who listens

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without interrupting, someone who's able to show empathy to the person who's before them

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as a mentee and the employees of asking open-ended questions so the mentees can truly express

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their thoughts and concerns.

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And it's really important because I think there is a power differential in the mentor-mentee

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relationship no matter how much the gap is, unless it's a peer-mentoring relationship.

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There's not really a power difference in there.

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And at some future episode, in a future episode, I am going to talk about the importance of

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these peer-mentoring relationships and how powerful they are.

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But the moment it's not a peer-mentoring experience, sometimes that can be a feeling of a power

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differential.

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And so being a mentor who has active listening skills, who really creates space for the mentees

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to be themselves and to voice exactly what they need from you is an amazing skill to

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have.

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And it allows you, as you reach out and be into mentor people, it really does allow you

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to grow in your active listening.

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Now one of the things that, oh, so number three is they're providing constructive feedback.

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Okay, what did I say?

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It's constructive feedback.

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Okay, if it's not constructive feedback, it's destructive feedback.

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I was just listening to a book by Brian Tracy today.

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It's called Maximum Achievement.

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And it talks about the difference between constructive and destructive feedback.

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So I definitely recommend this book to you.

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Again, that's Brian Tracy, Maximum Achievement.

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But it is, you know, in medicine, there's a lot of judgment, there's a lot of criticism.

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And so because of that, we are more likely to share destructive criticism than constructive

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feedback.

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And what do I mean by constructive feedback?

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Constructive feedback is feedback that helps people improve, not feedback that pulls them

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down or criticizes them.

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And the reason it is helpful for you to start early in your mentoring journey is because

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you are so attuned to your negative feedback experiences, right?

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You are attuned to the time when mentors said something to you that really demoralized you

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or made you disappointed or angry or hurt or anxious and afraid.

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And so you are less likely to want to inflict the same kind of pain on your mentees.

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And so one opportunity you have is to really learn to be constructive in the feedback you

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give so that people are left feeling good about themselves at the end of your feedback.

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So if you are giving feedback and people are, you know, crying or they're upset or they're

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broken or really sad, then it hasn't been constructive and it hasn't been feedback.

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It's been destructive.

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And so learning to do that early on is so powerful for you because one of the things

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it also allows you to do is to show compassion on others.

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And when you show compassion on others, it's an opportunity to show compassion on yourself.

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And then it allows you to learn how you can help people treat you well as well.

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And so in providing constructive feedback and being a great space for someone to bring

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challenges so that they can grow, it allows you to learn how you want to be treated, how

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you want to be given constructive feedback as well.

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And then you can take it to your mentors and say, hey, I know that you mean well when you

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yell, but when you do, I feel anxious and I feel stressed.

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And so I would really appreciate it if when you give feedback, you give it in a neutral

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tone so that it doesn't trigger the fight or the fight or flight response.

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So anyway, that's an example of how your ability to practice constructive feedback to someone

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as a mentor allows you to really help whatever, whoever the mentors in your life are in helping

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you move forward in the way you want to.

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So that's important to do.

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I think one thing that it also helps you to do is to help you set clear expectations.

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OK, so don't be like one of those mentors where someone comes and says, will you be

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my mentor?

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And you're like, of course, I'll be your mentor.

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And then you shake hands or you hug or you cry or something, and then you're done.

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And it's like, well, what did you just agree to?

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What did you just agree to do?

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Did you just agree to be this person's confidant and relationship expert advisor?

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And you're like, no, I didn't sign up for that.

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Oh, great.

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So set clear expectations so you can know what you signed up for and what you didn't

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sign up for.

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And I think it's important because many times, and you probably know this for yourself, mentees

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are not sure where they're going.

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They're still figuring it out.

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And it's OK.

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This journey takes time to really figure things out.

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But to the extent to which they understand where they're going, there's a very clear

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role for you as a mentor.

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And so what it allows you to do is to set very clear expectations so you can establish

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the boundaries of your relationship.

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Say, hey, I can help you understand the technique to do X, Y, Z, and the series of experiments

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to do X, Y, Z. I'm not going to be the person to come to if you're having marital problems

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or relationship issues.

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I'm not going to be that person.

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And it's important to just set it up front so that there isn't that expectation.

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And you're like, well, how could that be an expectation?

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It's like if you don't declare it, you don't know.

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And so it helps you learn to set clear expectations for your mentor-mentee relationship.

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And then it allows you to turn around and look to your mentors and say, well, are my

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expectations clear for my mentors or are their expectations clear for me?

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And it allows you to just harmonize so that you know that you're going to get out of it

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what you want to get out of it because it's very, very, very clear.

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OK.

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The fifth thing that it helps you do, and I hope you do it as you become a mentor, is

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to encourage people's independence.

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So if you've ever experienced a mentoring relationship where everything you're kind

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of like it was like go for a delegation.

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OK.

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Now I am referencing Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey.

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And in one of the chapters, he talks about go for a delegation where it's like do this,

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do that, then do this, then do that, then do this.

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Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

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Stop, stop, stop that.

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And that's go for a delegation where it's just I tell you what to do, you do it.

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I don't like it, you stop doing it.

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But what you start to do, what you want to do is encourage someone to grow in their thinking

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skills to be able to make decisions, to be able to get information, act on the information

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and process it.

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And it really allows you to support people to have creative strategies to create creative

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strategies for problem solving.

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It enables people to grow in their critical thinking.

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And that's a gift that you get to give to your mentees.

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And you turn around to begin to ask it of your own mentors and your mentoring relationships

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as well.

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The other things that are important is that it helps you grow in patience, it helps you

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be more understanding and flexible.

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If you're a parent, it's the same thing as when you finally become a parent, you start

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to really appreciate the sacrifices that your own parents made.

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You're like, wow, who knew how hard this is?

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I should go back and say thank you to my mom and dad.

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It's the same kind of thing where you're like, wow, being a mentor can be challenging.

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I should go back and say thank you to these mentors who allowed me to grow in this way,

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who spent so much time with me.

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But what you want to do is you foster mentoring relationships with mentees.

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Even though you don't feel you're ready, it really does help you to acknowledge how far

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you've come.

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And it also allows you to be patient and understanding with those who've come before you.

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So just to recap the things that I mentioned.

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Number one, it allows you to both acknowledge your skills, knowledge and expertise, and

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then to go acquire the ones that you may be missing.

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Number two, it does help you to become an active listener where you really are the one

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helping the mentee guide and drive their own career experience.

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Number three, it allows you to learn to provide constructive feedback because you may have

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been the recipient of destructive feedback and now you know better and it allows you

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to practice constructive feedback.

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It allows you, number four, to set clear expectations for the relationship.

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And as you set clear expectations for the relationship, you begin to think about your

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own mentoring relationships and you go back and set clear expectations for those relationships

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as well.

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And finally, it allows you to encourage and foster in others independence and critical

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thinking because that is so needed in terms of moving people's career forward.

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Moving people's career forward and also moving your own career forward as well.

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And so as you are encouraging other people's independence, you become someone who is independent

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as well.

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All right.

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If this episode has been helpful to you, please, please, please share it with somebody else.

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If you're looking to make this transition from clinician to clinician scientist, please

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reach out to us.

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We would love, love, love to be helpful to you.

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All right.

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It has been a pleasure talking with you today.

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Thank you so much for listening.

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I invite you to become the mentor that you wish to see.

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And we need you to take ownership of mentoring relationships so that you can create the kind

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of mentoring relationships that you've always wanted.

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All right.

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It's been a pleasure talking with you today.

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I look forward to talking with you again the next time.

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Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic

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clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

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have a mentor.

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If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

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Someone else needs to hear it.

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So take a minute right now and share it.

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As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

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of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.