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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.

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I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be talking with you today.

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Thank you for taking the time to listen in as we talk about how to make the most of your

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mentors.

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Now, sometimes there is this sense that the mentor is going to just do everything for

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you.

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It's going to be the one to lead you from A to B to C to Z. Everything rises and falls

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with this one mentor, and sometimes it doesn't work out that way.

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We're disappointed, and we're just annoyed, and we're like, well, if this mentor would

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have come through for me, my career would have been better, or we call our mentors the

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Tor mentors.

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Wow, so many challenges can happen in our mentoring relationships, but it's not because

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of the mentor.

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I would say that if you've had a challenging mentoring relationship, please do not blame

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the mentor.

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And yes, I don't know your mentor, and maybe your mentor was the horrible person tormenting

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you.

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I'm not saying that they were not.

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I certainly know people who do that, and I've had my fair share of mentors who felt like

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Tor mentors, but I want to say that the relationship building is up to you.

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And one of the ways that you get the best and the most out of a mentor is really taking

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ownership of the mentoring relationship.

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And many times we look up to our mentors and we're like, well, they're older, they're more

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senior, therefore they're responsible.

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But in reality, you are responsible for this mentoring relationship.

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You are.

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You're responsible to get out of it what you want from it.

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You are in this mentoring relationship for you.

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Yes, your mentor is going to benefit.

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And yes, they're going to love mentoring you because you're so awesome.

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And everyone loves to mentor the next generation of scientists.

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So you are, I mean, it's a great relationship.

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Your mentors are so excited to mentor you.

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But if you're going to get what is needed to shape your own career, it's going to be

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because you create the opportunity to do it.

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Now there's some mentors who don't need coaching, who don't need training, who are able to just

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take a person and really help them advance in their careers.

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But for the most part, if a mentoring relationship is going to succeed, it's because the mentee

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knows how to get the most out of the mentor.

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And so I'm going to talk today about strategies that you can use to make the most use of your

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mentors.

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So remember in our last episode, we talked about the importance of you taking ownership

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of your career?

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Well taking ownership of your career means taking ownership of your mentoring relationships

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as well.

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And to do that, you really need to first be able to set clear goals and expectations.

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What do you want for yourself?

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What do you want out of this career?

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Why are you here?

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What do you want out of this career?

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And if you're very clear on where you're going, then you can ask someone to help you get there.

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It's like the person that is out walking and you stop them and you're like, sir, are you

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lost?

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And they're like, yes, I'm lost.

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I need directions.

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And like, okay, where are you going?

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And then I'm like, I'm not really sure.

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How can you give such a person directions?

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And perhaps you're benevolent and you're like, oh, okay, well, give me a sense of where you

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think you might want to go.

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And they're like, well, I'm not really sure.

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I could go here.

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I could go there.

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Maybe I'll go there.

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I'm not sure I could go anywhere.

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How can you help a person like that?

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Someone who doesn't have a clear address to which they're going is very difficult to give

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directions to.

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And it's the same in your own career.

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If you're not very clear about where you're going, no mentor can help you get there because

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you don't know.

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And like, isn't that from Alice in Wonderland where the Cheshire Cat asked Alice where she

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was going and she was like, well, nowhere really.

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And he was like, well, then it doesn't matter which way you go.

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And it's the same thing.

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You want to clearly define your goals because when you clearly define your goals and you

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understand how this mentor fits in.

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So remember, there are different types of mentoring relationships.

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There's a research mentor in relationship.

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There's also sponsorship that happens as well.

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And then there's career development mentorship.

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So there are different kinds of mentoring relationships.

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What you need depends on where you're going.

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Perhaps you've already gotten a lot of research mentoring and you're not necessarily looking

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for another mentor.

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But this person is someone you've identified as someone who can really help you move forward.

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Well, in what way are they going to help you move forward?

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Where are you going so that you're very clear, you know where you're going so that you're

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very clear on how they can help you get there.

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And so if you have very specific achievable goals, it helps you and your mentor stay focused

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on what you need to accomplish.

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It helps you not go on the tangent of the great project that you could take on that

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you don't really want to do.

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But now you're trying not to make your mentor upset or you know, you're trying to please

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your mentor.

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So you're going off tangent.

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And so the way that you make the most out of your mentor is to set very clear goals

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and expectations so you know where you want to go and you become clear about when you're

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veering off your goals.

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And I will tell you that the process of setting goals and expectations is very hard.

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This is difficult.

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It's number one for a reason.

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It is hard.

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It's hard because in our training in medicine, there's the prescribed path.

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There's like, this is where everybody goes.

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This is at the end of four years, you graduate medical school, there's no questions asked.

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At the end of three years, the residency is over.

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This is the way it works all the time.

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And when we get to the place where we're planning our own careers, there isn't such a clear

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path.

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And so we haven't been practicing the muscle of defining where we want to go.

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And so it's something that we haven't been exercising the muscle of defining where we

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want to go.

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And so it's helpful that we start to do that.

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So setting clear goals and expectations for yourself is the most important first step

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in making the best use of your mentors.

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So that's number one.

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Number two is to communicate these goals and expectations.

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And so sometimes, okay, number two is to communicate these goals and expectations effectively.

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So you know where you're going inside your head, but nobody else knows it.

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They still can't help you get there or give you the directions that are necessary to get

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you there.

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Because although the goals are very clear to you, you're not communicating them.

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And part of communicating is really being open and honest.

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And this can be really hard, this effective communication, because we don't want to disappoint

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our mentors.

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If we come into their program and they say, oh, my goodness, I'm so glad you're here with

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your expertise, you're going to help me move this project forward.

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It's going to be so awesome.

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And you're a little bit deflated because you're like, well, that's not why you wanted that

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mentor specifically.

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And you're not interested in moving in that new direction.

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But you don't want to disappoint them.

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And maybe they're the number one research mentor in the whole institution, and you don't

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want to be the one mentee who fails in their expectation.

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And so then you don't share.

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You don't share that that's not where you want to go.

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And then you start on a project that you don't really want to be on.

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And it can be challenging.

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And so that's why you need to maintain open and honest communication with your mentors.

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And if there's something you disagree with, if there's a direction they're trying to take

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you in that you don't want to go, the importance of stopping and saying, hey, I really love

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that idea.

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And that's not where I want to go.

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And that's where it goes back to number one, setting clear goals and expectations.

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So you do know when you're veering off tangent, and you can be very clear and communicate

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it to a mentor.

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And so you want to make sure that you are open and honest in your communication.

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And if you're not able to do that, I will tell you that this is where a coach can be

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helpful to help you clarify what is your desire.

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What is the challenge that you have?

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What is your true feeling about it?

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So that you can then choose how to best communicate with your mentor.

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So you definitely want to make sure that your communication is open, it's honest, it's effective.

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You want to keep them up to date on your goals.

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And you know, as goals are changing, because goals are not static things.

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You master something, you want to move on to the next thing.

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Or you see that you have a new direction you want to set.

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You want to be able to communicate them clearly so that as the mentor is trying to help you

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move forward, they know exactly how to do that.

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Okay, so that's number two, communicate effectively.

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Number three is to be proactive.

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You've got to be proactive.

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I was not a proactive mentee.

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I was the one who was always waiting for the mentor to find me and say, hey, how's it going?

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What do you need?

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And to be honest, when I finally, I think grew up in my mentoring relationships, I recognized

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that the mentoring relationships were for me, therefore I needed to be proactive in

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the mentoring relationships.

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And part of that is making sure you're clear on how this mentor helps you like, how does

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this mentor help you?

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And if you are very clear about the gap that you're trying to fill with this mentoring

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relationship, then take ownership and fill the gap.

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Help the mentor help you schedule the meetings as you need to prepare questions and topics

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for discussion.

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Don't let them don't don't show up.

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And then they're like, oh, great, I'm glad you're here.

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This is what I want to talk about.

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I mean, it's great if they want to do that.

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But you have a clear purpose and a plan for this mentor in your life.

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So you want to make sure you are proactive in, you know, preparing the questions that

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help you, the help lead you to the answers that move your research forward.

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And so when you're proactive and demonstrating your commitment, it helps.

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It helps because well, the person who has specificity around where they want to go is

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so much easier to help than the person who's just not sure, doesn't really want to reach

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out.

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And to be honest, you know, mentors have so much going on in their lives that if you never

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showed up, they might they might wonder where you are, but they may not necessarily have

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the bandwidth to reach out and say, how are you doing?

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And remember, a mentoring relationship is not like a mother, son or mother daughter

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relationship.

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This is not like a nurturing, like, oh, my love, how are you?

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It's great if you have that and if you have that wonderful, good for you.

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But it doesn't need to be that way.

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It really is a professional relationship.

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And if you are getting what you need in your personal and professional goal, I'm sorry,

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if you're getting what you need in terms of your research growth, good for you.

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That's pretty much you have what you need.

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And maybe your mentor is not warm and fuzzy.

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Remember, you're not there for this mentor for warmness, warmth and fuzziness.

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You can have other mentors, especially outside of academia, to give you the warmth and fuzziness

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needed.

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But you want to be clear about how this mentor helps you.

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And then you want to be proactive about getting them to help you.

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The other thing is the importance of learning from your mentors experiences.

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So your mentors are living in a different world, or at least they came up at a different

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time, a different era than you are.

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They had different challenges.

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But overall, the themes are similar.

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And so it's helpful to learn from their experience.

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It's helpful to listen more than you speak.

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So yes, you're the one being proactive.

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You're the one who's bringing the agenda.

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You're the one who's saying, hey, this is how I want you to help me.

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But when you do ask questions, you want to make sure you listen.

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You know, let them ask them questions about their past successes and their failures.

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Ask especially about the failures.

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People don't talk about failures enough.

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And sometimes hearing about the failures is enough for you.

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It inspires you and encourages you.

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Because you're like, oh, you failed.

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And you're still here or you're doing awesome, even though you failed.

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And it just helps you move forward in a different way.

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But the only way you find out is when you listen.

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And so in listening, you are able to get insights that perhaps you wouldn't have been able to

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get before when you're very focused on just, you know, the challenge that's ahead of you.

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And so definitely take time to listen and learn from their experiences and make sure

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that you are able to really leverage that to the growth and advancement of your own

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career.

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Another thing that's important is to really show them gratitude, is to show mentors gratitude.

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And it's just that, to be honest, this is something that applies to everybody, anybody

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who at any time meets with you to speak with you about your career.

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It's just to say thank you.

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It's just to say thank you.

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It's really just simple just to say thank you.

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It says, hey, I value your time.

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I value expertise.

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Thank you for taking this time to meet with me.

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And it may be that you're supporting your mentors program and your work is also moving

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their work forward, which is great.

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And I think it's just important actually that we acknowledge each other and we thank each

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other for the things we do that allow us to move forward in a big and important way.

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And anyway, so it's important.

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It's important to do these things.

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So I want to just go through these five things again.

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You want to make sure you have clear goals and expectations.

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You want to communicate effectively, honestly, openly.

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You want to be proactive and take ownership and direct your own career.

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You want to learn from their experiences and you want to show gratitude because it is so

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important that we show gratitude to people who help us move forward.

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So I say all that and I want to share with you and remind you that you are leading your

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own career.

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You absolutely are.

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And part of finding the way to make the most of your mentors is being clear about where

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you're going.

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And if you're not clear, to do the work of getting clear.

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And that's where I think a coach can be helpful.

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And if you're a clinician looking for a coach who can help you make that transition, build

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the infrastructure in your life to be able to successfully make that transition from

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clinician to clinician scientist, I would love to work with you.

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Please come work with me.

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Send me a DM.

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I'm on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

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And let me know how I can be of help to you.

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And if it makes sense for both of us, then we move forward.

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But it is important to recognize that you need to take ownership.

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Whatever is necessary to do that so that you can make the most of the mentors in your life

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is absolutely worth doing.

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Ultimately, you are responsible for your career.

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You're responsible for the choices that are made.

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Even if your mentor strongly recommends something and it doesn't work out, you are still responsible

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for the fallout.

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So definitely make use of the people that you have around you.

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And remember that you ultimately are leading your own experience and you get to you get

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to choose.

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You absolutely get to choose.

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All right.

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It has been a pleasure talking with you today.

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Thank you for taking the time to listen.

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Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic

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clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

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have a mentor.

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If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

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Someone else needs to hear it.

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So take a minute right now and share it.

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As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

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of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do health